What happens when we bring our authentic selves to work? Rachel Arnold, Director of Strategic Partnerships at Secure Nation, reveals the power of human connection in building lasting client relationships in cybersecurity.
Rachel describes her unique role as "the human API" - connecting people, products, and possibilities through deep understanding of communication preferences and needs. Unlike traditional vendor relationships focused on transactions, Rachel builds partnerships based on trust and genuine connection. She tailors her approach to each client's preferred communication style, whether that's email, text message, or phone calls, creating experiences that feel personal rather than corporate.
The conversation explores how authenticity transforms work environments. As Rachel puts it, "How awful to spend 40+ hours a week pretending to be someone else." By bringing her whole self to professional interactions—sharing her passion for plants, discussing family challenges, and expressing genuine care for clients—she creates relationships that transcend typical business boundaries. This authenticity doesn't diminish professionalism; it enhances it by building deeper trust.
Most compelling is the discussion about workplace culture and leadership. Toxic environments stem from leaders who themselves are suffering but lack self-awareness to address their pain constructively. By contrast, when leaders demonstrate vulnerability, admit mistakes, and support teams through professional and personal challenges, everyone thrives. These supportive environments don't just benefit employees—they directly translate to better client service and business success.
Ready to transform your approach to professional relationships? Subscribe to Voices of the Vigilant for more conversations about the human side of cybersecurity, and check out Rachel's weekly livestream "Coffee Table Talks" to continue exploring authentic leadership.
https://www.vigilantviolet.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/jessvachon1
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Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:01):
Welcome to Voices of the Vigilant, where we dive deep
into the human side of tech.
Here we go beyond the ones andzeros to explore the people,
passions and stories driving thecyber and internet security
world.
In each episode we bringtogether experts, rebels and
innovators from across the techindustry to share their personal
journeys, challenges andvictories.
(00:22):
And here's your host and rebelin charge at Vigilant, violet
Jess Vachon.
Jess Vachon (00:32):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Voices of
the Vigilant, a Vigilant Violetpodcast.
My guest today is Rachel Arnold, director of Strategic
Partnerships at Secure Nation.
Rachel, welcome.
Rachel Arnold (00:47):
Thank you so much .
This is going to be, we weretalking about it in the little
pre-show thing that we weredoing, that this is going to be
a very, oh, "how the turns table, if you guys know that joke
from The Office.
Jess Vachon (01:00):
Anyway, that might just be me.
No, we all love The Office,anyway, that might be just me.
Rachel Arnold (01:06):
Yeah, no, we all love The Office, because we just
I.
I have a live stream that I do.
That's called The Coffee TableTalks.
Yes, you were a guest there, um, and I do that on a weekly
basis, and now I'm a guest onyour show.
I'm ,I don't know what to dowith my hands.
I'm like happy dance, happydance.
Jess Vachon (01:24):
Only people on the video are going to see our hands
in the air.
The rest of you are going tohave to picture it.
Rachel Arnold (01:31):
It's going to be a lot of fun, so buckle up.
We're going to talk about me alot.
Jess Vachon (01:39):
So let's start.
What does the Director ofStrategic Partnerships do?
Rachel Arnold (01:45):
So that is the corporate jargony title for the
human API.
It's the one that we can findthat fit the best.
Jess Vachon (01:52):
Okay.
Rachel Arnold (01:54):
Throughout my career in cybersecurity.
Specifically, I've come upthrough these conversations with
C-suite directors, managers youknow the analysts, the
engineers, right?
And my brain is wired in aspecific way where I start to
(02:15):
notice patterns across theseconversations and it could be
things like you know, theseengineers all seem to enjoy
playing D&D, right?
Or these analysts are allworking on the same problem
whenever it comes to automatinghow their alerts are coming in
right or tailoring those alerts,or these CISOs all seem to feel
(02:38):
very isolated on their ownislands.
They should be introduced toeach other.
They should have a friendlyroundtable once a week, maybe,
something I can start and thenvery carefully peel out of and
they can just keep it.
That's the human API aspect ofconnecting people together,
which also marries into thedirector of strategic
(02:59):
partnerships role whenever thosesame elements that I find in
human conversations also comeout of product strategy, right.
Or how a tech stack shouldactually stack up, how
integration should work, thingslike that to help strategize
those sorts of things into areally robust cybersecurity
(03:26):
program for the clients that Iserve, as well as being able to
leverage those relationships ina way to negotiate or get some
add-ons maybe that are reallynecessary or to take advantage
of continued education andupskilling for those
cybersecurity teams that aregoing to be using those products
.
So as more cybersecurity peoplecome on to my client's team,
(03:50):
they automatically have a pieceof their onboarding that gives
them in-depth, very personalizedtraining on how to use the
tools that are already in place.
And that's the differencebetween just putting products in
place and selling and being astrategic seller of
cybersecurity products andprofessional services.
Jess Vachon (04:11):
Wow, that's such an important point, I think, with
so many relationships that weencounter in the professional
space in cybersecurity.
It's someone wants to sell youa product or someone wants to
sell you a service, but not alot of companies do very well at
blending those pieces.
And what's even moreinteresting about what you just
(04:32):
explained is you're not onlyselling the service and the
product, but you're connectingpeople with the same types of
issues or the same types ofchallenges and giving them an
opportunity to talk and networkamongst themselves, and that
brings that much more success tothe table right?
(04:53):
I love that you call it thehuman API, because in your
description I can see that.
What a great description ofwhat you do.
Right, and I would imagine, atthe end of the day, the
customers for Secure Nation walkaway and they feel like they
got more than just a product,more than just a spot solution.
They get a holistic programthat is going to help them be
(05:17):
successful over the long term.
Is that an accurate reflectionof the work?
Rachel Arnold (05:21):
It is.
It is, and that I mean evenjust the approach that we have,
as providing these services orassisting our clients in this
way is strategic in itself.
Because I don't want to.
We're a smaller company, okay,there's only a handful of us,
(05:41):
which means that every minuteand every second counts.
Even that much more, right?
So if I spend I don't knowlet's say, 10 hours working this
week on a project with a client, right, I cannot invest 10
hours of that time with thatclient and then have them not
(06:04):
renew next year because ofbuyer's remorse, because it
didn't fit correctly, becausethe integration fell apart,
because onboarding sucks,because, right, Because, because
, because it has to be seamless,it has to be done.
Right, because I don't have thetime to go back and fix it, and
(06:25):
they don't either, and theydon't want to.
They want to put something inplace that's going to stand the
test of time, have the longevityinvolved, and not something
that's going to fall to thewayside because of you know,
maybe they're a great companyand they promote very quickly
out of you know, the, the peoplethat are actually managing
(06:45):
these tools.
Well, now you've got new peoplecoming in.
What if they don't understandthat tool?
Right, you want them to be ableto wield it just as well as the
person before and not put allof the weight of that training
on the individual that was therepreviously.
Right, they have things to lookforward to, like their next
role.
They need to train for thatrole instead of going back and
(07:07):
doing this other stuff.
Whenever there are somewonderful vendor partners out
there that add that will totallydo these things for free,
because they also want you tolove their product and stick
with it and be able to fine tuneit so that it fits perfectly,
and that's kind of the idea andthe mission behind making sure
it's done right the first time.
Jess Vachon (07:29):
You use the term.
I think it was vendorrelationships, I use the term
partnerships and for most of mycareer, when I look at these
value-added resellers, I hate touse that term, but I will for
the sake of the discussion, whenI do business with them, I
don't want to just buy oneproduct, but I will for the sake
of the discussion when I dobusiness with them.
I don't want to just buy oneproduct.
I need to establish a trustrelationship at the beginning.
(07:51):
I need to know that you're init for more than just that spot
sale, and I look at thesepartners as an extension of my
team.
Many of us in informationsecurity and compliance have
limited size teams.
Intro (08:08):
Right.
Jess Vachon (08:08):
And thus we have limited capabilities to fulfill
all the needs of ourorganization.
So these partnerships aresupremely important.
I don't want to do a lot ofpartnership churn because that
means I have to spend the 10 or20 hours on the phone or going
to lunch or having longconversations to explain what
(08:29):
the business is doing, what ourgoals are, what's important to
the organization, what ourbuying cycles look like.
I want that all established soI have a long-term partnership.
I want partners bringing stuffto the table that have value and
meaning to me and the companythat I'm working for.
So, this human API element is, Imean, it's excellent.
(08:53):
And when you're a smaller firm,a boutique firm and I don't
want to classify Secure Nationas one, but it's very important
that that relationship is builtand maintained and I like the
fact that as a team maytransition, that you're covering
that part, that aspect as well,so there's no drop off.
(09:14):
What do you hear from thecustomers that you build these
relationships with?
I mean, they must give you somefeedback on the relationship
they have with you.
Rachel Arnold (09:24):
Well, and it's not just given right, I ask for
it continuously, on every stepof the way, especially built.
So, for example, we just gotback from and when I say we, I
mean I, I just got, I justrealized I was, it was just me.
I just got back from Cactus Cona few weeks ago.
That was in Mesa, arizona,which is part of Phoenix.
I didn't know that when I wentthere, but hey, learn something
(09:47):
new every day.
And we got to hang out with aclient that was prospective
client kind of situation,someone I really liked, and I
get to.
I get to pick out my ownclients.
I'm so spoiled.
So every day I go to work, Iwork with people that either are
my best friends or on their wayto being my best friends.
(10:07):
And these are the kind ofpeople that if they lived near
me, I would invite them to mykids birthday parties.
They probably would say no,thank you, but you know what I
mean.
Kind of situation like theywould.
They would 100% be the folks Iwould invite over on the weekend
to have a you know backyardbarbecue.
Be the folks I would inviteover on the weekend to have a
you know backyard barbecue.
But anyhow, we picked up a newclient and and a part of that
(10:29):
process, especially in thebeginning, for for me personally
is ensuring every step of theway that the experience is
tailored to something that theyfind valuable, right, and it's
it's down to the nitpicky stuffat first where I'm like which,
which channels are yourpreferred communication channels
(10:52):
?
Do you prefer email, do youprefer text, do you prefer
signal messaging?
Do you prefer a phone call?
Like, how would you like forthis communication style to go?
And if they're like, no, notsure, right, I'll try it out in
a couple of different ways,usually going to email first,
but if they notice and I noticedthat I need feedback from them
(11:15):
on, you know, let's set up thisschedule or demo or anything
like that, then I'll start kindof pinging them a little bit on
text, you know, see what's up,and then I set that and move
forward with it.
So, and it's also somethingthat, like, I just sent out a
couple of summaries.
I do those on again.
According to, however, it isthat our clients want to do that
(11:37):
.
So sometimes it's frequentlyMondays and Wednesdays for some
reason, but one of the ones thatI sent out to the new client
was on a Wednesday, and I madesure that at the end of the
summary, once they received it,that I put a note.
If there are any adjustments oranything you'd like to change
see more of or less of in thissummary on where we stand with
(11:59):
all these projects, please letme know it.
Just, I got lucky and theyhappen to love it, so that
worked out really nice.
But I hate long emails.
Right, I absolutely hate longemails.
We're helping the B-Sides NOLAorganizers on board maybe a few
more vendors to sponsor theevent, right, and you know how
(12:23):
important B-sides are.
Right, they're great for justcommunity learning, networking,
having some really greatinteresting research topics.
I like the B-sides so muchbecause they feel, I mean,
(12:43):
vendors are important.
Right, I'm in charge of vendorrelationships.
Like that's my thing.
That's one of my passions iskind of having this weird
counseling ability betweenclients and their vendors, but I
really just I sit through demosand sales all day long in my
job which is great.
(13:04):
My brain is ready to learn thosetechnologies, but when I go to
conference, I wanna seesomething dynamic and surprising
and exciting and I wanna learnwhatever it is that somebody's
been working on for a year,building, you know, out on their
GitHub, like, or some new wayto automate something, or a new
(13:28):
way that there's, you know,something can be attacked, or
just anything like that.
Those are the kind of talksthat I really enjoy going to.
Those are my favorites, and ifI've never seen that speaker
before, those are the ones'revery organized people, okay, and
they have a spreadsheet, and Idon't like spreadsheets, but
(14:10):
anyway, they have a spreadsheetand the first thing I did was
threw that spreadsheet out andmade my own.
Uh, it's terrible, right, it'sterrible.
That's mean I should haveworked with theirs.
Jess Vachon (14:19):
Someone who doesn't like spreadsheets but then made
their own spreadsheet.
Rachel Arnold (14:22):
Okay.
Well, the thing is, is thatthat's their preferred
communication style?
I got to get along, that'sright, right, if that's how, if
that's how they're going toingest this information, then
it's important for me to fitinto that a little bit right To,
to adjust my communicationstyle so that it is fitting for
(14:45):
the people I'm serving, and I dothat frequently from one thing
to another.
It doesn't matter what it is Ifit's, you know, doing something
, volunteer style like this.
Oh, man, speaking of volunteer,I just got brought in to be a
board member for my local ISACAchapter.
Again, congratulations, thanks,thanks, and I say it like that
(15:10):
because I wasn't aware that thatwas what was going to happen
and I went back through theemail threads and it still is
not clear.
They asked me to moderate anevent that's coming up in our
local area and I was reallyexcited.
Of course, I'd love to help.
I'd love to help you out.
Right, it's like soccer, youguys do great things.
(15:30):
I got to this board meeting andthey were like everybody meet
our newest board member, rachel,and I was like you, sneaky
peeps.
Jess Vachon (15:41):
I think the term is "voluntold.
Rachel Arnold (15:44):
You sneaky peeps, but I'm 100% on it.
And they've got, like you know,a huge group text.
I'm not a fan of group text butI group text.
Now you know you got to go towhere the people are, Go to
where you can help and adjustyour communication style
accordingly.
Jess Vachon (16:02):
Well, that's critical.
I mean you've added so muchhere.
I'm going to start with thatcommunication piece, right?
Because I was asked the otherday by some team members like
how, what is one of the softskills that you use?
And I said it's it'scommunication, but it's it's
differentiated communication,which, for those who don't know
how that term differentiatedfactors in it's actually what
(16:24):
you said meeting people wherethey're at.
If they're texters, you textthem.
If they're emailers, you emailthem.
If they're voice people, youget on a Teams call or you pick
up the phone and you call themand you continue to do that.
And if they're notunderstanding, in one format,
right.
So let's say you respond in anemail and they're just not
getting it, then you, you pickup the phone because they need a
(16:46):
different way of receiving yourmessage.
So it's great that you'reattuned to what people desire in
order to achieve a level ofsatisfaction in their
interactions with you, right?
Rachel Arnold (16:58):
Right.
Well, I'm a people pleaser,probably for really horrific
childhood trauma reasons, butI've embraced it as an adult as
I cope and heal, just like mostof us right, and I get the most
satisfaction out of a goodcustomer experience.
(17:20):
I really do, and it's been thatway across the different
industries that I've worked in.
Right, I've not always been incybersecurity.
I got here as a midlife crisis.
I don't know what it was, butthat's how I got here was.
You know, in my early thirtiessome things changed so I changed
(17:41):
right, I went, I adjusted,moved on and really seeing the
joy that I can bring to someoneand I know that sounds so cliche
, I really do but walking awayfrom an interaction with another
human being and knowing that Ihave somehow improved or brought
(18:03):
them a little more hope or madetheir day a little nicer, makes
me feel great, like that is thegreatest hit of dopamine and I.
It might be selfish.
I guess, if you look at it thatway, that the only reason I'm
nice to other people is so thatI feel nice about myself.
Jess Vachon (18:22):
I bet if I push you on that, that's not why.
It's because I think, becauseyou want to make a difference
and you are making a differenceand people see that in you.
That's why you're being askedto do so much in the community,
like B-Sides or ISACA.
It's because it's authenticwhat you're giving.
It's not to get something back.
It's okay if we get the gift offeeling good because we do it,
(18:46):
but you're giving first right.
Rachel Arnold (18:49):
Yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't get.
You're right, I don't getanything else other than that
there's not a lot else otherlike it, just it's nice.
And I, especially, am verycareful whenever it comes to
like my client interactions,because the reason I'm working
with them is because I like themso much and I don't want them
(19:11):
to stop working with me Becauseit's real hard to find people I
like that much.
Jess Vachon (19:17):
That's fair.
Rachel Arnold (19:19):
Not everybody is.
I'm not everybody's cup of teaand not right Like that's magic
when that happens, whenever youknow you've got those, those
friends that you enjoy seeingfor years and years and years.
Jess Vachon (19:31):
That's true, you know.
I think everyone thinks,everyone who's not in the
InfoSec community, thinks we areall just best friends and pals,
I mean.
But there's, it's just likeevery other group.
There's people that you likeand there's people that you know
.
Yeah, you're great, you'reknowledgeable.
We're just not compatible.
Rachel Arnold (19:54):
Those are the people that I'm always happy to
read their write-ups or or watchtheir, their talk, or, you know
, support them in other ways.
Yeah, I'm not inviting you todinner, you know what I mean.
Jess Vachon (20:07):
Like, I'm sure there's other people in the
community that feel the same wayabout me and that goes across
different communities.
Right, and that's one of thethings we think we as people
need to be cognizant of is thatdon't box us all up, because
none of us fits in one box andnone of us wants to be in one
box.
(20:27):
So finding your people whereverthey are is important, and
supporting them in the way thatyou do is important.
That's what builds community.
That's what changes the cultureof society.
So there's a philosophy inBuddhism that we're all a wave,
but we're all part of the ocean.
So in your way you're talkingabout, you know, sometimes
(20:49):
seeing yourself as a wave, butyou're part of the ocean and you
, you are part of the energy ofthe ocean and you don't stand
alone and the ocean doesn'tstand without you.
So I'm going off a littletangent here, but I think it's
important that when you give ofyourself, it spreads beyond
(21:10):
where you think it spreads.
And in the way that you'redoing it, both professionally
and personally, it's beautiful.
It's a good blending of who youare and being authentic, which
I think, at the end of the day,we are all striving to be
authentic and accepted.
So it's great how open you arewith people, regardless of them
(21:33):
being clients or friends in theprofessional community.
Rachel Arnold (21:38):
One of the things I've noticed that a lot of
people struggle and I struggledwith it too community.
One of the things I've noticedthat a lot of people struggle
and I struggled with it too wasyou hear this well, for a good
work-life balance, right, thereshould be a separation between
your personal and yourprofessional, which I still feel
is true in a lot of ways, butyou have to adjust how you apply
that so that you do show upgenuinely every day to whatever
(22:02):
your nine to five is right.
Um, for example, I've known alot of folks that have burnt out
because they blurred that linebetween professional and
personal and they're up, youknow, still answering Slack and
teams and email and, um, youknow different professional
(22:22):
social media type things at two,three o'clock in the morning
and you're like you need to slowdown, it's gonna.
You're gonna notice this isgonna hurt soon, your brain's
gonna explode.
Or you're gonna look up one dayand you're gonna be like I
don't know who I am Without Imean for our purposes, without
(22:43):
cybersecurity.
I don't know what I like, Idon't, I have no idea, I have no
hobbies right, or I have nooutside interest.
And what's great is I canalways.
I can always see the peoplethat have struggled and then
come out of it because they seemto have the collection of
(23:04):
hobbies that are the mostnon-tech at all.
I know a president of acybersecurity company did
blacksmithing on the weekends.
I was like so you have like aforge in your backyard.
They were like absolutely, I do, and I built the forge myself.
(23:27):
That's like, that's so cool.
Please send pictures, right, Iknow I see some other folks that
do crocheting, or I like plants.
How non-technical can you get?
Look behind me for those of youwho aren't on video or I like
plants.
Jess Vachon (23:43):
How non-technical can you get?
Look behind me, for those ofyou who aren't on video, my
office is full of plants.
My whole house is full ofplants.
My whole side business is allabout a plant theme that goes
along with cybersecurity.
So yeah, I love plants.
Rachel Arnold (23:57):
Yes.
Jess Vachon (24:28):
Yeah, for me that it's.
It's about getting back to thebasics.
That's why I love to hike, likeI can go on a hike that's
supposed to be, I don't know,let's say, an hour to do it, and
it will take me two or threehours, because I am like playing
with the plants and going offthe trail a little bit, just a
little bit people right like saysafety first.
(24:49):
But uh, I have, but I'm bringingmy to watch the the hawks and
the eagles, and I'll be quietlystanding there to see what
animals are out there, becausefor me it's getting back to what
life is all about, you know, atits core.
Something I want to go back toand touch upon is that you
(25:10):
talked about people who ,theirwork is their whole life, and I
think in the last few yearswe've had a lot of people that
that was their life and then allof a sudden that life was
ripped away from them and it's atrauma event for them.
I've been in that positionbefore where my job was taken
away and the shock and theadjustment period is so strange
(25:38):
because you get up and there'sno email to check, there's no
one to text, there's noresponsibility.
But the beautiful thing is,once you get past that first 12,
24 hours, there's no pressure,right?
Rachel Arnold (25:51):
No pressure.
I've done it too.
I've had the same thing happen,exactly that initial shot, like
this vacuum.
It feels like your whole soulis being sucked out of your body
because you're like, what now?
Because your brain was rollingdown all these checklists and
you were on this path that wasvery well controlled.
(26:14):
And you get up the next day andit's like, oh, who am I Like?
You forget how to brush yourteeth because there's no email
to check while you're brushingyour teeth.
It's very strange.
And so, having some of thosehobbies and, and you know,
(26:36):
having that kind of a balancewhere you do have something that
is just yours, you do havesomething that is just yours,
it's it's you.
You keep yourself intact.
But part of being able to blurthat line for me at least,
successfully showing upgenuinely as my personal self
and my professional life Um, Iwill talk to Jess about plants,
(26:58):
right, right, I will bring thatinto the conversation.
I have swapped cuttings andseeds with other people.
Jess Vachon (27:09):
I've not done that, but I should do that.
Rachel Arnold (27:13):
It's a lot of fun whenever you start.
You know what, though?
You got to be careful.
Guard yourself a little bit,because if you kill the thing
that your friend gave you,little bit, because if you kill
the thing that your friend gaveyou, there's like this guilt
level, that happens right.
Jess Vachon (27:29):
You have to put a disclaimer at the beginning
saying you know, I thank you forthis gift.
I may kill it, but please don'ttake it personally.
Exactly, I better knock on wood.
I've been lucky in that theplants that I have.
I'm a fairly good caretaker.
But I think I have to do withthe room.
And then I have a secretingredient which I'm not going
to share here.
(27:49):
If people want to know what itis, you have to subscribe to the
podcast and then maybe I willtell you what my secret
ingredient is, to keep my plantslooking healthy.
Rachel Arnold (27:57):
You got to tell me later, because I already
subscribed, Jess.
Jess Vachon (28:01):
I'll tell you I'll put it in the newsletter,
Rachel Arnold (28:06):
okay, good, good, yeah, make sure you put it in
there, because I'm going to betaking notes on some stuff.
But if you don't have thatpiece of your personality still
in tow, right, you show up towork at least 40 hours a week.
So are you telling me, for 40hours a week, you're not being
yourself?
That's horrible.
That's horrible.
(28:30):
How awful for you.
Either that or maybe you shouldget into theater, cause you're
really good at developingcharacters but, like, how awful
for you to show up 40 plus hoursa week as somebody else.
I don't understand how peopledon't show up as their authentic
selves every day, every minute.
And also, you know, on the flipside of that, the only
difference between meprofessionally and personally is
(28:51):
the subject.
It's a subject matter, that'sit.
It's just a context thing.
The context that I speak in atwork is work related,
cybersecurity related, right,but those aren't the kind of
conversations that I can go andeasily have with.
You know, my parents, I try, Iwe do, we go through it.
(29:15):
You know they definitely callme whenever they've locked
themselves out of their Humanaaccount.
Yeah, Every week they're callingyou.
Humana account.
Yeah, every week they'recalling you.
Yeah, it's often Right, orfriends or neighbors.
They'll come to me or myhusband, right?
My husband also works incybersecurity.
It's a running joke that theycall us to fix their printers.
Jess Vachon (29:39):
I want to announce to all relatives we hate
printers as much as you do.
Just don't buy them.
Rachel Arnold (29:46):
The only difference between anybody else
and me is that I can followinstructions without getting
upset.
I like instructions, I'minterested, I'm that nerd.
I will read privacy policiesLike.
I like lists and being able tofollow them step by step.
I'm also a pretty good cookbecause of that.
(30:07):
So you guys want to swap outsome some cuttings?
I'll make you some banana breadand begrudgingly fix your
printer.
Please don't call me for yourprinter, though, but it's you
know it, my husband's aprincipal slash lead security
(30:28):
analyst.
They're like can you fix myprinter?
I'm like oh man, that's a helpdesk thing, Come on.
Jess Vachon (30:37):
Oh, I don't know.
I you know.
I guess there's pros and consto it.
I like that the family stillbelieves in my technical skills,
which I try to keep up on,which, in the position I feel
now, it's a little morechallenging because it's more of
a leadership role.
But I want to go back tosomething you said about people
showing up authentically asthemselves.
(30:58):
I do have an opinion on that.
I think it's when people areworking in an environment that
they don't feel that they'retrusted or that they're safe,
it's very hard for them to showup authentically and we see that
, I think, in how successfulthose groups are.
It's a reflection on theleadership, it's a reflection on
(31:19):
the organization and I think ifyou were to go and, say,
interview or talk to someone whoworks at those companies, they
would give you the real pictureof what working in that
organization is like.
I think a lot of people findthemselves trapped in those
organizations and they don'tknow how to escape it, and or
(31:39):
they've been in thoseorganizations throughout their
entire career.
So they think that's howinformation, security and
compliance is supposed to be,and it's not those of us who
have escaped those types ofenvironments and have found
themselves in safe, trustworthy,supportive environments, know
there's a better way to do it,and that's what feeds us to go
(32:00):
to work and really excel.
I feel sorry for people thatare trapped in those
circumstances, but how do youinfluence that?
I think it's what we're doingnow.
We have conversations aboutauthenticity, about showing up
as our whole self, and thenthose of us that are doing that
have to set that example and saythere is a better way to do it.
(32:23):
You can have feelings.
As a leader, you're notsupposed to be devoid of
feelings.
Your job as a leader is to bethere one to complete the
mission of the organization, buttwo to take care of the people.
That, to me, is, and they'revery close together.
For me, I am all about.
(32:43):
You know, training for thestaff, showing who I am,
admitting to my mistakes andsaying sorry so that they know
they can make mistakes andapologize, that there's a person
that has their life because youdo.
(33:03):
You have their livelihoods inyour hands.
Uh, that that it's someonetrustworthy that they can rely
upon and they can come to mewhen they're in a bind because
they won't always be in a bindin their work.
They may be in a bind in theirpersonal lives, and we need to
find a way to navigate both ofthose.
Rachel Arnold (33:21):
Right, and how?
How often is it that, um,people experiencing some
hardships in their personal life, that comes to work with them?
I know you're supposed to leaveit at the door, but I I can't
forget for eight, nine hours aday that, like my dad needs help
because he's sick.
(33:42):
You know, I can't forget that.
I have three little kids inschool that their teacher could
call at any time, and I mean allthree of them are neurodiverse.
It's better now that they'reolder, but when they were
younger I did get phone callsthat one of my kids was having
(34:03):
like a nonverbal episode wherethey had just shut down and the
teachers were scared, kind ofthing, because they were just
thousand miles.
Stare, they didn't.
The teachers weren't sure whatthey had done to trigger it and
kind of thing.
You know and and mommy has togo, or daddy, mommy or daddy has
to go and and fix it.
(34:25):
Like I can't, I can't forgetthose things.
Those are part of me that now.
Does that mean that because I'mthinking about those things, I
can't also divide off a part ofmyself to focus on the task at
hand?
Yeah, but it helps a whole hellof a lot whenever I have a
leader or a mentor or coworkeror teammate that can commiserate
(34:49):
on those things with me, right,I don't need you to fix it for
me, I just need you to listen,that's it.
That's it.
And tell me about a time thatyou could relate to me, so that
I know that, on top of alreadyworrying about these things, I
also don't have to feel ananxiety about the anxiety, right
(35:10):
, that it doesn't pile on, andthat's.
I've been in environments whereI think that that's very well
done by the leadership.
Secure Nation is a greatexample of that Our fearless
leader and CEO, john Davis, andour CEO, kim McCarty.
Every day, every morning, webanter a bit in our team's chats
(35:32):
and talk about what kind ofthings are looking out.
Today, john's got a bunch ofkids that he's got to take care
of too, and I do, and sometimesour know, sometimes our kids
drive us crazy and sometimeswe're just like, oh, and we'll
share pictures with each otherabout you know, some stupid
thing that the kids have doneExactly.
Jess Vachon (35:52):
And those are great things to celebrate, right?
We shouldn't be celebratingthat, hey, you're a whole person
, you have a family, you dothings outside of work, you're
successful in doing those things.
That's great.
Those commonalities that weshare, those events that we, you
know, amplify and say that'sgreat.
That's, I think, makes teams somuch stronger.
(36:16):
But it's also about empoweringstaff and I think a lot of
companies are afraid of that.
You know, that's why peopledon't want universal healthcare,
or that's why companies don'twant universal healthcare, right
, because it gives you a littlebit of freedom.
You're not so tied to thatcompany.
They don't want to have youhave a personal life, because
then they might have to give yousome support, which they call
(36:39):
accommodations for that.
What is wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong.
You know what I found I havealmost 30 ish years in
technology right when I took myhands off the staff, when I,
when I gave flexibility to theteam, when I supported
everything they did, that cameback over and over and over
(36:59):
again, amplified right and Ididn't do it because I wanted
something back.
I did it because I wanted themto be happy.
I just you know, it's been along time since I took
psychology courses.
But Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, if you satisfy those right, we
all I think all of us learnedthat in school.
You satisfy those basic needs,people take off.
(37:20):
That is the difference betweenwhere humanity was thousands of
years ago and now, as thoseneeds got met and then people
flourish.
Why do we want to take thataway?
I don't know.
It's counter to everything wehave learned and as people and
as an advancing society, weshould be moving in a forward,
(37:42):
growing, open-minded directionand not pointing back and saying
, well, those were the good olddays, they weren't good for
everybody.
They were good for very fewpeople.
So you know, in our own littleways that bring authenticity,
that making room for mistakes,that supporting people's lives
outside of work is superimportant for creating not just
(38:04):
a better work environment but abetter society as a whole.
Rachel Arnold (38:08):
Oh, definitely agree.
I know I was not the mostpolite person whenever I was
thrust into a toxic environmentto everyone around me.
Right, it's that ripple effect.
Right, I'm the drop in the pondand I make the ripples ripple.
Um, if I'm having a bad day,the ripples are bad.
Right, they spread out.
So if I'm having a great dayand um, I mean, yeah, of course
(38:32):
you control your your owndestiny a lot in those
situations, but there's only somuch you can do.
Whenever you're thrust into anegative environment, you know
to remain positive.
I feel like I am a verypositive, optimistic person.
I was not positive noroptimistic at some points during
my career in differentindustries, even Right, and
(38:57):
those were not the times when Iflourished.
Those were not the times whenthe teams that I managed did
well or had high sales or greatcustomer feedback or anything
else.
Whenever, just like you said,whenever those top needs are met
, you back away, right, set itdown, watch it go, because it's
going to go and be an amazinglight for the face of your
(39:21):
company.
One, if they're interactingwith you know customers or other
businesses.
Two, they're going to be greatlittle productive things because
all of those needs are beingmet.
And you're right, I don'tunderstand.
Maybe it's's, maybe it's a lackof education at the top and for
all those listening in yes, Ireally did just call the whole
like c-suite kind of dumb.
(39:42):
Uh sorry, it can be true.
In toxic environments they'repretty stupid, um, and it's a
fear of other people figuringout how unintelligent they are.
They make everyone else scaredbecause they're scared, hurt
people hurt people every time.
(40:02):
It's just a fact.
Think about it in every one ofyour interactions.
It doesn't matter what it is.
It could be on a micro or amacro level.
Right, think about every timesomeone hurt you emotionally,
physically, professionally,financially.
It's because they were hurtingfirst and they just spread it.
(40:24):
That's it.
And the type of people that dothat have not taken the time to
be introspective.
They have not taken the time to, I don't know, journal, like,
write your feelings down beforeyou accidentally weaponize the
wrong ones somewhere else.
(40:45):
Right, like, let's not do that,but why not weaponize optimism
and a positive outlook?
It's really great.
I think everybody should do it.
Jess Vachon (40:56):
It is.
I love the point you justbrought up, because in Buddhism
we call that suffering right andeveryone suffers in some way.
A lot of people don't knowthey're suffering, they don't
understand it and, exactly likeyou said, the way they think
they alleviate that suffering isto make someone else suffer
with them.
Rachel Arnold (41:16):
Right.
Jess Vachon (41:16):
Whether it's intentional or unintentional,
and it's, you know, I thinkwe're seeing that amplified
right now, at least in theUnited States right, and it's
confusing to a lot of people.
Those people that are not likethat, they understand they're
suffering, they're very, youknow, attached to other people,
(41:40):
they're very magnanimous,they're very loving, they have
empathy.
It's scary and it doesn't makesense to those people.
But we need to take a step backand take a breath and realize
that not everyone has had ourlived experience.
Some people have had verydifferent experiences.
They've had trauma in their ownway and they don't know how to
(42:01):
navigate that.
And and sometimes when someoneshows up and says, oh, I can
show you the way to do that,it's the, it's the point my
fingers over here and over hereand over here and points to the
problems.
It's not you, it's them.
That to your point, is thatleadership that hurts and
doesn't understand productiveways to deal with, that isn't
(42:23):
introspective, doesn't go totherapy because they think
therapy is not appropriate forhealthy people.
Just for the record, I do it.
I think I'm healthy and I thinkI'm relatively normal People
may argue with that.
I think everyone should havethat as a basic healthcare need
(42:44):
that's fulfilled.
Rachel Arnold (42:45):
I mean I just keep showing up whenever you ask
me to.
It's because you're a greathuman, so you're doing well.
Jess Vachon (42:53):
I try.
At the end of the day, you know, and I shared this with my
kids, we come into this worldwhether we want to or not.
We should leave this world in abetter place than we found it.
It doesn't require giantstrides, it just is, can be
little steps.
There's a saying "the journeyof a thousand miles begins with
(43:14):
the first step right steps.
There's a saying the journey ofa thousand miles begins with
the first step right.
So you can cover greatdistances if you're just taking
the little steps that you needto take, and maybe that's all
you can take.
Maybe your plate is so full atthe end of the day that the only
thing you can do is maybe turnto your spouse and say I love
you and I appreciate you, oryou're saying it to someone you
(43:35):
work with.
I really appreciate what youdid today.
It helps me in these differentways little things that are
meaningful, that are truthful,that change the current right,
and we need to be doing that.
You know, in a world that rightnow seems to be in total chaos
and off the rails, we can stilllook forward and we can still
(44:02):
make these, Um, I don't knowwhat the opposite of
microaggressions would be, but,uh, micro rebellions, I guess to
change things in a morepositive way.
So yeah, um micro aggressive,micro aggressive Optimism no,
yes, we'll figure it out andI'll post it out.
We're winding down.
(44:24):
This has been great.
I want to make sure that youhave an opportunity here, before
we close out, to plug whateveryou want to plug.
So you have like 30 seconds.
Go for it.
Rachel Arnold (44:33):
Excellent one, Thank you, Jess, for having me.
I'm going to plug your show.
If you're listening to it andyou found it find it again, Do
it again, so go subscribe.
Second of all, I also host alive stream on a weekly basis,
normally on Fridays in themiddle of the day, called The
Coffee Table Talks.
You can look me up on YouTubeat the Human API , all one word.
(44:55):
Or you can look me up onLinkedIn at the human API all
one word.
Or you can look me up onLinkedIn and go follow that
secure nation page for streamupdates.
So we have a guest on this weekCassidy Trond from tech systems
.
She's going to be awesome andwe're looking forward to having
her.
Jess Vachon (45:13):
Everyone go check it out, rachel.
Thank you.
We'll have you on again becausethis was a great conversation.
Everyone go support Rachel.
Go out there, be good people,have a good day, Rachel.
Thank you again.
Rachel Arnold (45:27):
Yeah, of course.
Intro (45:30):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Voices of the
Vigilant.
If you liked what you heardtoday, please subscribe and
leave a review in your favoritepodcast app For a copy of the
transcript.
To follow Jess to apply as aguest of the show or to learn
more about services fromVigilant Violet, please visit
(45:51):
vigilantvioletcom.
Until next time, stay vigilant.
Welcome to Voices of the Vigilant, where we dive deep
into the human side of tech.
Here we go beyond the ones andzeros to explore the people,
passions and stories driving thecyber and internet security
world.
In each episode we bringtogether experts, rebels and
innovators from across the techindustry to share their personal
journeys, challenges andvictories.
(00:22):
And here's your host and rebelin charge at Vigilant, violet
Jess Vachon.
Jess Vachon (00:32):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Voices of
the Vigilant, a Vigilant Violetpodcast.
My guest today is Rachel Arnold, director of Strategic
Partnerships at Secure Nation.
Rachel, welcome.
Rachel Arnold (00:47):
Thank you so much .
This is going to be, we weretalking about it in the little
pre-show thing that we weredoing, that this is going to be
a very, oh, "how the turns table, if you guys know that joke
from The Office.
Jess Vachon (01:00):
Anyway, that might just be me.
No, we all love The Office,anyway, that might be just me.
Rachel Arnold (01:06):
Yeah, no, we all love The Office, because we just
I.
I have a live stream that I do.
That's called The Coffee TableTalks.
Yes, you were a guest there, um, and I do that on a weekly
basis, and now I'm a guest onyour show.
I'm ,I don't know what to dowith my hands.
I'm like happy dance, happydance.
Jess Vachon (01:24):
Only people on the video are going to see our hands
in the air.
The rest of you are going tohave to picture it.
Rachel Arnold (01:31):
It's going to be a lot of fun, so buckle up.
We're going to talk about me alot.
Jess Vachon (01:39):
So let's start.
What does the Director ofStrategic Partnerships do?
Rachel Arnold (01:45):
So that is the corporate jargony title for the
human API.
It's the one that we can findthat fit the best.
Jess Vachon (01:52):
Okay.
Rachel Arnold (01:54):
Throughout my career in cybersecurity.
Specifically, I've come upthrough these conversations with
C-suite directors, managers youknow the analysts, the
engineers, right?
And my brain is wired in aspecific way where I start to
(02:15):
notice patterns across theseconversations and it could be
things like you know, theseengineers all seem to enjoy
playing D&D, right?
Or these analysts are allworking on the same problem
whenever it comes to automatinghow their alerts are coming in
right or tailoring those alerts,or these CISOs all seem to feel
(02:38):
very isolated on their ownislands.
They should be introduced toeach other.
They should have a friendlyroundtable once a week, maybe,
something I can start and thenvery carefully peel out of and
they can just keep it.
That's the human API aspect ofconnecting people together,
which also marries into thedirector of strategic
(02:59):
partnerships role whenever thosesame elements that I find in
human conversations also comeout of product strategy, right.
Or how a tech stack shouldactually stack up, how
integration should work, thingslike that to help strategize
those sorts of things into areally robust cybersecurity
(03:26):
program for the clients that Iserve, as well as being able to
leverage those relationships ina way to negotiate or get some
add-ons maybe that are reallynecessary or to take advantage
of continued education andupskilling for those
cybersecurity teams that aregoing to be using those products
.
So as more cybersecurity peoplecome on to my client's team,
(03:50):
they automatically have a pieceof their onboarding that gives
them in-depth, very personalizedtraining on how to use the
tools that are already in place.
And that's the differencebetween just putting products in
place and selling and being astrategic seller of
cybersecurity products andprofessional services.
Jess Vachon (04:11):
Wow, that's such an important point, I think, with
so many relationships that weencounter in the professional
space in cybersecurity.
It's someone wants to sell youa product or someone wants to
sell you a service, but not alot of companies do very well at
blending those pieces.
And what's even moreinteresting about what you just
(04:32):
explained is you're not onlyselling the service and the
product, but you're connectingpeople with the same types of
issues or the same types ofchallenges and giving them an
opportunity to talk and networkamongst themselves, and that
brings that much more success tothe table right?
(04:53):
I love that you call it thehuman API, because in your
description I can see that.
What a great description ofwhat you do.
Right, and I would imagine, atthe end of the day, the
customers for Secure Nation walkaway and they feel like they
got more than just a product,more than just a spot solution.
They get a holistic programthat is going to help them be
(05:17):
successful over the long term.
Is that an accurate reflectionof the work?
Rachel Arnold (05:21):
It is.
It is, and that I mean evenjust the approach that we have,
as providing these services orassisting our clients in this
way is strategic in itself.
Because I don't want to.
We're a smaller company, okay,there's only a handful of us,
(05:41):
which means that every minuteand every second counts.
Even that much more, right?
So if I spend I don't knowlet's say, 10 hours working this
week on a project with a client, right, I cannot invest 10
hours of that time with thatclient and then have them not
(06:04):
renew next year because ofbuyer's remorse, because it
didn't fit correctly, becausethe integration fell apart,
because onboarding sucks,because, right, Because, because
, because it has to be seamless,it has to be done.
Right, because I don't have thetime to go back and fix it, and
(06:25):
they don't either, and theydon't want to.
They want to put something inplace that's going to stand the
test of time, have the longevityinvolved, and not something
that's going to fall to thewayside because of you know,
maybe they're a great companyand they promote very quickly
out of you know, the, the peoplethat are actually managing
(06:45):
these tools.
Well, now you've got new peoplecoming in.
What if they don't understandthat tool?
Right, you want them to be ableto wield it just as well as the
person before and not put allof the weight of that training
on the individual that was therepreviously.
Right, they have things to lookforward to, like their next
role.
They need to train for thatrole instead of going back and
(07:07):
doing this other stuff.
Whenever there are somewonderful vendor partners out
there that add that will totallydo these things for free,
because they also want you tolove their product and stick
with it and be able to fine tuneit so that it fits perfectly,
and that's kind of the idea andthe mission behind making sure
it's done right the first time.
Jess Vachon (07:29):
You use the term.
I think it was vendorrelationships, I use the term
partnerships and for most of mycareer, when I look at these
value-added resellers, I hate touse that term, but I will for
the sake of the discussion, whenI do business with them, I
don't want to just buy oneproduct, but I will for the sake
of the discussion when I dobusiness with them.
I don't want to just buy oneproduct.
I need to establish a trustrelationship at the beginning.
(07:51):
I need to know that you're init for more than just that spot
sale, and I look at thesepartners as an extension of my
team.
Many of us in informationsecurity and compliance have
limited size teams.
Intro (08:08):
Right.
Jess Vachon (08:08):
And thus we have limited capabilities to fulfill
all the needs of ourorganization.
So these partnerships aresupremely important.
I don't want to do a lot ofpartnership churn because that
means I have to spend the 10 or20 hours on the phone or going
to lunch or having longconversations to explain what
(08:29):
the business is doing, what ourgoals are, what's important to
the organization, what ourbuying cycles look like.
I want that all established soI have a long-term partnership.
I want partners bringing stuffto the table that have value and
meaning to me and the companythat I'm working for.
So, this human API element is, Imean, it's excellent.
(08:53):
And when you're a smaller firm,a boutique firm and I don't
want to classify Secure Nationas one, but it's very important
that that relationship is builtand maintained and I like the
fact that as a team maytransition, that you're covering
that part, that aspect as well,so there's no drop off.
(09:14):
What do you hear from thecustomers that you build these
relationships with?
I mean, they must give you somefeedback on the relationship
they have with you.
Rachel Arnold (09:24):
Well, and it's not just given right, I ask for
it continuously, on every stepof the way, especially built.
So, for example, we just gotback from and when I say we, I
mean I, I just got, I justrealized I was, it was just me.
I just got back from Cactus Cona few weeks ago.
That was in Mesa, arizona,which is part of Phoenix.
I didn't know that when I wentthere, but hey, learn something
(09:47):
new every day.
And we got to hang out with aclient that was prospective
client kind of situation,someone I really liked, and I
get to.
I get to pick out my ownclients.
I'm so spoiled.
So every day I go to work, Iwork with people that either are
my best friends or on their wayto being my best friends.
(10:07):
And these are the kind ofpeople that if they lived near
me, I would invite them to mykids birthday parties.
They probably would say no,thank you, but you know what I
mean.
Kind of situation like theywould.
They would 100% be the folks Iwould invite over on the weekend
to have a you know backyardbarbecue.
Be the folks I would inviteover on the weekend to have a
you know backyard barbecue.
But anyhow, we picked up a newclient and and a part of that
(10:29):
process, especially in thebeginning, for for me personally
is ensuring every step of theway that the experience is
tailored to something that theyfind valuable, right, and it's
it's down to the nitpicky stuffat first where I'm like which,
which channels are yourpreferred communication channels
(10:52):
?
Do you prefer email, do youprefer text, do you prefer
signal messaging?
Do you prefer a phone call?
Like, how would you like forthis communication style to go?
And if they're like, no, notsure, right, I'll try it out in
a couple of different ways,usually going to email first,
but if they notice and I noticedthat I need feedback from them
(11:15):
on, you know, let's set up thisschedule or demo or anything
like that, then I'll start kindof pinging them a little bit on
text, you know, see what's up,and then I set that and move
forward with it.
So, and it's also somethingthat, like, I just sent out a
couple of summaries.
I do those on again.
According to, however, it isthat our clients want to do that
(11:37):
.
So sometimes it's frequentlyMondays and Wednesdays for some
reason, but one of the ones thatI sent out to the new client
was on a Wednesday, and I madesure that at the end of the
summary, once they received it,that I put a note.
If there are any adjustments oranything you'd like to change
see more of or less of in thissummary on where we stand with
(11:59):
all these projects, please letme know it.
Just, I got lucky and theyhappen to love it, so that
worked out really nice.
But I hate long emails.
Right, I absolutely hate longemails.
We're helping the B-Sides NOLAorganizers on board maybe a few
more vendors to sponsor theevent, right, and you know how
(12:23):
important B-sides are.
Right, they're great for justcommunity learning, networking,
having some really greatinteresting research topics.
I like the B-sides so muchbecause they feel, I mean,
(12:43):
vendors are important.
Right, I'm in charge of vendorrelationships.
Like that's my thing.
That's one of my passions iskind of having this weird
counseling ability betweenclients and their vendors, but I
really just I sit through demosand sales all day long in my
job which is great.
(13:04):
My brain is ready to learn thosetechnologies, but when I go to
conference, I wanna seesomething dynamic and surprising
and exciting and I wanna learnwhatever it is that somebody's
been working on for a year,building, you know, out on their
GitHub, like, or some new wayto automate something, or a new
(13:28):
way that there's, you know,something can be attacked, or
just anything like that.
Those are the kind of talksthat I really enjoy going to.
Those are my favorites, and ifI've never seen that speaker
before, those are the ones'revery organized people, okay, and
they have a spreadsheet, and Idon't like spreadsheets, but
(14:10):
anyway, they have a spreadsheetand the first thing I did was
threw that spreadsheet out andmade my own.
Uh, it's terrible, right, it'sterrible.
That's mean I should haveworked with theirs.
Jess Vachon (14:19):
Someone who doesn't like spreadsheets but then made
their own spreadsheet.
Rachel Arnold (14:22):
Okay.
Well, the thing is, is thatthat's their preferred
communication style?
I got to get along, that'sright, right, if that's how, if
that's how they're going toingest this information, then
it's important for me to fitinto that a little bit right To,
to adjust my communicationstyle so that it is fitting for
(14:45):
the people I'm serving, and I dothat frequently from one thing
to another.
It doesn't matter what it is Ifit's, you know, doing something
, volunteer style like this.
Oh, man, speaking of volunteer,I just got brought in to be a
board member for my local ISACAchapter.
Again, congratulations, thanks,thanks, and I say it like that
(15:10):
because I wasn't aware that thatwas what was going to happen
and I went back through theemail threads and it still is
not clear.
They asked me to moderate anevent that's coming up in our
local area and I was reallyexcited.
Of course, I'd love to help.
I'd love to help you out.
Right, it's like soccer, youguys do great things.
(15:30):
I got to this board meeting andthey were like everybody meet
our newest board member, rachel,and I was like you, sneaky
peeps.
Jess Vachon (15:41):
I think the term is "voluntold.
Rachel Arnold (15:44):
You sneaky peeps, but I'm 100% on it.
And they've got, like you know,a huge group text.
I'm not a fan of group text butI group text.
Now you know you got to go towhere the people are, Go to
where you can help and adjustyour communication style
accordingly.
Jess Vachon (16:02):
Well, that's critical.
I mean you've added so muchhere.
I'm going to start with thatcommunication piece, right?
Because I was asked the otherday by some team members like
how, what is one of the softskills that you use?
And I said it's it'scommunication, but it's it's
differentiated communication,which, for those who don't know
how that term differentiatedfactors in it's actually what
(16:24):
you said meeting people wherethey're at.
If they're texters, you textthem.
If they're emailers, you emailthem.
If they're voice people, youget on a Teams call or you pick
up the phone and you call themand you continue to do that.
And if they're notunderstanding, in one format,
right.
So let's say you respond in anemail and they're just not
getting it, then you, you pickup the phone because they need a
(16:46):
different way of receiving yourmessage.
So it's great that you'reattuned to what people desire in
order to achieve a level ofsatisfaction in their
interactions with you, right?
Rachel Arnold (16:58):
Right.
Well, I'm a people pleaser,probably for really horrific
childhood trauma reasons, butI've embraced it as an adult as
I cope and heal, just like mostof us right, and I get the most
satisfaction out of a goodcustomer experience.
(17:20):
I really do, and it's been thatway across the different
industries that I've worked in.
Right, I've not always been incybersecurity.
I got here as a midlife crisis.
I don't know what it was, butthat's how I got here was.
You know, in my early thirtiessome things changed so I changed
(17:41):
right, I went, I adjusted,moved on and really seeing the
joy that I can bring to someoneand I know that sounds so cliche
, I really do but walking awayfrom an interaction with another
human being and knowing that Ihave somehow improved or brought
(18:03):
them a little more hope or madetheir day a little nicer, makes
me feel great, like that is thegreatest hit of dopamine and I.
It might be selfish.
I guess, if you look at it thatway, that the only reason I'm
nice to other people is so thatI feel nice about myself.
Jess Vachon (18:22):
I bet if I push you on that, that's not why.
It's because I think, becauseyou want to make a difference
and you are making a differenceand people see that in you.
That's why you're being askedto do so much in the community,
like B-Sides or ISACA.
It's because it's authenticwhat you're giving.
It's not to get something back.
It's okay if we get the gift offeeling good because we do it,
(18:46):
but you're giving first right.
Rachel Arnold (18:49):
Yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't get.
You're right, I don't getanything else other than that
there's not a lot else otherlike it, just it's nice.
And I, especially, am verycareful whenever it comes to
like my client interactions,because the reason I'm working
with them is because I like themso much and I don't want them
(19:11):
to stop working with me Becauseit's real hard to find people I
like that much.
Jess Vachon (19:17):
That's fair.
Rachel Arnold (19:19):
Not everybody is.
I'm not everybody's cup of teaand not right Like that's magic
when that happens, whenever youknow you've got those, those
friends that you enjoy seeingfor years and years and years.
Jess Vachon (19:31):
That's true, you know.
I think everyone thinks,everyone who's not in the
InfoSec community, thinks we areall just best friends and pals,
I mean.
But there's, it's just likeevery other group.
There's people that you likeand there's people that you know
.
Yeah, you're great, you'reknowledgeable.
We're just not compatible.
Rachel Arnold (19:54):
Those are the people that I'm always happy to
read their write-ups or or watchtheir, their talk, or, you know
, support them in other ways.
Yeah, I'm not inviting you todinner, you know what I mean.
Jess Vachon (20:07):
Like, I'm sure there's other people in the
community that feel the same wayabout me and that goes across
different communities.
Right, and that's one of thethings we think we as people
need to be cognizant of is thatdon't box us all up, because
none of us fits in one box andnone of us wants to be in one
box.
(20:27):
So finding your people whereverthey are is important, and
supporting them in the way thatyou do is important.
That's what builds community.
That's what changes the cultureof society.
So there's a philosophy inBuddhism that we're all a wave,
but we're all part of the ocean.
So in your way you're talkingabout, you know, sometimes
(20:49):
seeing yourself as a wave, butyou're part of the ocean and you
, you are part of the energy ofthe ocean and you don't stand
alone and the ocean doesn'tstand without you.
So I'm going off a littletangent here, but I think it's
important that when you give ofyourself, it spreads beyond
(21:10):
where you think it spreads.
And in the way that you'redoing it, both professionally
and personally, it's beautiful.
It's a good blending of who youare and being authentic, which
I think, at the end of the day,we are all striving to be
authentic and accepted.
So it's great how open you arewith people, regardless of them
(21:33):
being clients or friends in theprofessional community.
Rachel Arnold (21:38):
One of the things I've noticed that a lot of
people struggle and I struggledwith it too community.
One of the things I've noticedthat a lot of people struggle
and I struggled with it too wasyou hear this well, for a good
work-life balance, right, thereshould be a separation between
your personal and yourprofessional, which I still feel
is true in a lot of ways, butyou have to adjust how you apply
that so that you do show upgenuinely every day to whatever
(22:02):
your nine to five is right.
Um, for example, I've known alot of folks that have burnt out
because they blurred that linebetween professional and
personal and they're up, youknow, still answering Slack and
teams and email and, um, youknow different professional
(22:22):
social media type things at two,three o'clock in the morning
and you're like you need to slowdown, it's gonna.
You're gonna notice this isgonna hurt soon, your brain's
gonna explode.
Or you're gonna look up one dayand you're gonna be like I
don't know who I am Without Imean for our purposes, without
(22:43):
cybersecurity.
I don't know what I like, Idon't, I have no idea, I have no
hobbies right, or I have nooutside interest.
And what's great is I canalways.
I can always see the peoplethat have struggled and then
come out of it because they seemto have the collection of
(23:04):
hobbies that are the mostnon-tech at all.
I know a president of acybersecurity company did
blacksmithing on the weekends.
I was like so you have like aforge in your backyard.
They were like absolutely, I do, and I built the forge myself.
(23:27):
That's like, that's so cool.
Please send pictures, right, Iknow I see some other folks that
do crocheting, or I like plants.
How non-technical can you get?
Look behind me for those of youwho aren't on video or I like
plants.
Jess Vachon (23:43):
How non-technical can you get?
Look behind me, for those ofyou who aren't on video, my
office is full of plants.
My whole house is full ofplants.
My whole side business is allabout a plant theme that goes
along with cybersecurity.
So yeah, I love plants.
Rachel Arnold (23:57):
Yes.
Jess Vachon (24:28):
Yeah, for me that it's.
It's about getting back to thebasics.
That's why I love to hike, likeI can go on a hike that's
supposed to be, I don't know,let's say, an hour to do it, and
it will take me two or threehours, because I am like playing
with the plants and going offthe trail a little bit, just a
little bit people right like saysafety first.
(24:49):
But uh, I have, but I'm bringingmy to watch the the hawks and
the eagles, and I'll be quietlystanding there to see what
animals are out there, becausefor me it's getting back to what
life is all about, you know, atits core.
Something I want to go back toand touch upon is that you
(25:10):
talked about people who ,theirwork is their whole life, and I
think in the last few yearswe've had a lot of people that
that was their life and then allof a sudden that life was
ripped away from them and it's atrauma event for them.
I've been in that positionbefore where my job was taken
away and the shock and theadjustment period is so strange
(25:38):
because you get up and there'sno email to check, there's no
one to text, there's noresponsibility.
But the beautiful thing is,once you get past that first 12,
24 hours, there's no pressure,right?
Rachel Arnold (25:51):
No pressure.
I've done it too.
I've had the same thing happen,exactly that initial shot, like
this vacuum.
It feels like your whole soulis being sucked out of your body
because you're like, what now?
Because your brain was rollingdown all these checklists and
you were on this path that wasvery well controlled.
(26:14):
And you get up the next day andit's like, oh, who am I Like?
You forget how to brush yourteeth because there's no email
to check while you're brushingyour teeth.
It's very strange.
And so, having some of thosehobbies and, and you know,
(26:36):
having that kind of a balancewhere you do have something that
is just yours, you do havesomething that is just yours,
it's it's you.
You keep yourself intact.
But part of being able to blurthat line for me at least,
successfully showing upgenuinely as my personal self
and my professional life Um, Iwill talk to Jess about plants,
(26:58):
right, right, I will bring thatinto the conversation.
I have swapped cuttings andseeds with other people.
Jess Vachon (27:09):
I've not done that, but I should do that.
Rachel Arnold (27:13):
It's a lot of fun whenever you start.
You know what, though?
You got to be careful.
Guard yourself a little bit,because if you kill the thing
that your friend gave you,little bit, because if you kill
the thing that your friend gaveyou, there's like this guilt
level, that happens right.
Jess Vachon (27:29):
You have to put a disclaimer at the beginning
saying you know, I thank you forthis gift.
I may kill it, but please don'ttake it personally.
Exactly, I better knock on wood.
I've been lucky in that theplants that I have.
I'm a fairly good caretaker.
But I think I have to do withthe room.
And then I have a secretingredient which I'm not going
to share here.
(27:49):
If people want to know what itis, you have to subscribe to the
podcast and then maybe I willtell you what my secret
ingredient is, to keep my plantslooking healthy.
Rachel Arnold (27:57):
You got to tell me later, because I already
subscribed, Jess.
Jess Vachon (28:01):
I'll tell you I'll put it in the newsletter,
Rachel Arnold (28:06):
okay, good, good, yeah, make sure you put it in
there, because I'm going to betaking notes on some stuff.
But if you don't have thatpiece of your personality still
in tow, right, you show up towork at least 40 hours a week.
So are you telling me, for 40hours a week, you're not being
yourself?
That's horrible.
That's horrible.
(28:30):
How awful for you.
Either that or maybe you shouldget into theater, cause you're
really good at developingcharacters but, like, how awful
for you to show up 40 plus hoursa week as somebody else.
I don't understand how peopledon't show up as their authentic
selves every day, every minute.
And also, you know, on the flipside of that, the only
difference between meprofessionally and personally is
(28:51):
the subject.
It's a subject matter, that'sit.
It's just a context thing.
The context that I speak in atwork is work related,
cybersecurity related, right,but those aren't the kind of
conversations that I can go andeasily have with.
You know, my parents, I try, Iwe do, we go through it.
(29:15):
You know they definitely callme whenever they've locked
themselves out of their Humanaaccount.
Yeah, Every week they're callingyou.
Humana account.
Yeah, every week they'recalling you.
Yeah, it's often Right, orfriends or neighbors.
They'll come to me or myhusband, right?
My husband also works incybersecurity.
It's a running joke that theycall us to fix their printers.
Jess Vachon (29:39):
I want to announce to all relatives we hate
printers as much as you do.
Just don't buy them.
Rachel Arnold (29:46):
The only difference between anybody else
and me is that I can followinstructions without getting
upset.
I like instructions, I'minterested, I'm that nerd.
I will read privacy policiesLike.
I like lists and being able tofollow them step by step.
I'm also a pretty good cookbecause of that.
(30:07):
So you guys want to swap outsome some cuttings?
I'll make you some banana breadand begrudgingly fix your
printer.
Please don't call me for yourprinter, though, but it's you
know it, my husband's aprincipal slash lead security
(30:28):
analyst.
They're like can you fix myprinter?
I'm like oh man, that's a helpdesk thing, Come on.
Jess Vachon (30:37):
Oh, I don't know.
I you know.
I guess there's pros and consto it.
I like that the family stillbelieves in my technical skills,
which I try to keep up on,which, in the position I feel
now, it's a little morechallenging because it's more of
a leadership role.
But I want to go back tosomething you said about people
showing up authentically asthemselves.
(30:58):
I do have an opinion on that.
I think it's when people areworking in an environment that
they don't feel that they'retrusted or that they're safe,
it's very hard for them to showup authentically and we see that
, I think, in how successfulthose groups are.
It's a reflection on theleadership, it's a reflection on
(31:19):
the organization and I think ifyou were to go and, say,
interview or talk to someone whoworks at those companies, they
would give you the real pictureof what working in that
organization is like.
I think a lot of people findthemselves trapped in those
organizations and they don'tknow how to escape it, and or
(31:39):
they've been in thoseorganizations throughout their
entire career.
So they think that's howinformation, security and
compliance is supposed to be,and it's not those of us who
have escaped those types ofenvironments and have found
themselves in safe, trustworthy,supportive environments, know
there's a better way to do it,and that's what feeds us to go
(32:00):
to work and really excel.
I feel sorry for people thatare trapped in those
circumstances, but how do youinfluence that?
I think it's what we're doingnow.
We have conversations aboutauthenticity, about showing up
as our whole self, and thenthose of us that are doing that
have to set that example and saythere is a better way to do it.
(32:23):
You can have feelings.
As a leader, you're notsupposed to be devoid of
feelings.
Your job as a leader is to bethere one to complete the
mission of the organization, buttwo to take care of the people.
That, to me, is, and they'revery close together.
For me, I am all about.
(32:43):
You know, training for thestaff, showing who I am,
admitting to my mistakes andsaying sorry so that they know
they can make mistakes andapologize, that there's a person
that has their life because youdo.
(33:03):
You have their livelihoods inyour hands.
Uh, that that it's someonetrustworthy that they can rely
upon and they can come to mewhen they're in a bind because
they won't always be in a bindin their work.
They may be in a bind in theirpersonal lives, and we need to
find a way to navigate both ofthose.
Rachel Arnold (33:21):
Right, and how?
How often is it that, um,people experiencing some
hardships in their personal life, that comes to work with them?
I know you're supposed to leaveit at the door, but I I can't
forget for eight, nine hours aday that, like my dad needs help
because he's sick.
(33:42):
You know, I can't forget that.
I have three little kids inschool that their teacher could
call at any time, and I mean allthree of them are neurodiverse.
It's better now that they'reolder, but when they were
younger I did get phone callsthat one of my kids was having
(34:03):
like a nonverbal episode wherethey had just shut down and the
teachers were scared, kind ofthing, because they were just
thousand miles.
Stare, they didn't.
The teachers weren't sure whatthey had done to trigger it and
kind of thing.
You know and and mommy has togo, or daddy, mommy or daddy has
to go and and fix it.
(34:25):
Like I can't, I can't forgetthose things.
Those are part of me that now.
Does that mean that because I'mthinking about those things, I
can't also divide off a part ofmyself to focus on the task at
hand?
Yeah, but it helps a whole hellof a lot whenever I have a
leader or a mentor or coworkeror teammate that can commiserate
(34:49):
on those things with me, right,I don't need you to fix it for
me, I just need you to listen,that's it.
That's it.
And tell me about a time thatyou could relate to me, so that
I know that, on top of alreadyworrying about these things, I
also don't have to feel ananxiety about the anxiety, right
(35:10):
, that it doesn't pile on, andthat's.
I've been in environments whereI think that that's very well
done by the leadership.
Secure Nation is a greatexample of that Our fearless
leader and CEO, john Davis, andour CEO, kim McCarty.
Every day, every morning, webanter a bit in our team's chats
(35:32):
and talk about what kind ofthings are looking out.
Today, john's got a bunch ofkids that he's got to take care
of too, and I do, and sometimesour know, sometimes our kids
drive us crazy and sometimeswe're just like, oh, and we'll
share pictures with each otherabout you know, some stupid
thing that the kids have doneExactly.
Jess Vachon (35:52):
And those are great things to celebrate, right?
We shouldn't be celebratingthat, hey, you're a whole person
, you have a family, you dothings outside of work, you're
successful in doing those things.
That's great.
Those commonalities that weshare, those events that we, you
know, amplify and say that'sgreat.
That's, I think, makes teams somuch stronger.
(36:16):
But it's also about empoweringstaff and I think a lot of
companies are afraid of that.
You know, that's why peopledon't want universal healthcare,
or that's why companies don'twant universal healthcare, right
, because it gives you a littlebit of freedom.
You're not so tied to thatcompany.
They don't want to have youhave a personal life, because
then they might have to give yousome support, which they call
(36:39):
accommodations for that.
What is wrong with that?
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong.
You know what I found I havealmost 30 ish years in
technology right when I took myhands off the staff, when I,
when I gave flexibility to theteam, when I supported
everything they did, that cameback over and over and over
(36:59):
again, amplified right and Ididn't do it because I wanted
something back.
I did it because I wanted themto be happy.
I just you know, it's been along time since I took
psychology courses.
But Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, if you satisfy those right, we
all I think all of us learnedthat in school.
You satisfy those basic needs,people take off.
(37:20):
That is the difference betweenwhere humanity was thousands of
years ago and now, as thoseneeds got met and then people
flourish.
Why do we want to take thataway?
I don't know.
It's counter to everything wehave learned and as people and
as an advancing society, weshould be moving in a forward,
(37:42):
growing, open-minded directionand not pointing back and saying
, well, those were the good olddays, they weren't good for
everybody.
They were good for very fewpeople.
So you know, in our own littleways that bring authenticity,
that making room for mistakes,that supporting people's lives
outside of work is superimportant for creating not just
(38:04):
a better work environment but abetter society as a whole.
Rachel Arnold (38:08):
Oh, definitely agree.
I know I was not the mostpolite person whenever I was
thrust into a toxic environmentto everyone around me.
Right, it's that ripple effect.
Right, I'm the drop in the pondand I make the ripples ripple.
Um, if I'm having a bad day,the ripples are bad.
Right, they spread out.
So if I'm having a great dayand um, I mean, yeah, of course
(38:32):
you control your your owndestiny a lot in those
situations, but there's only somuch you can do.
Whenever you're thrust into anegative environment, you know
to remain positive.
I feel like I am a verypositive, optimistic person.
I was not positive noroptimistic at some points during
my career in differentindustries, even Right, and
(38:57):
those were not the times when Iflourished.
Those were not the times whenthe teams that I managed did
well or had high sales or greatcustomer feedback or anything
else.
Whenever, just like you said,whenever those top needs are met
, you back away, right, set itdown, watch it go, because it's
going to go and be an amazinglight for the face of your
(39:21):
company.
One, if they're interactingwith you know customers or other
businesses.
Two, they're going to be greatlittle productive things because
all of those needs are beingmet.
And you're right, I don'tunderstand.
Maybe it's's, maybe it's a lackof education at the top and for
all those listening in yes, Ireally did just call the whole
like c-suite kind of dumb.
(39:42):
Uh sorry, it can be true.
In toxic environments they'repretty stupid, um, and it's a
fear of other people figuringout how unintelligent they are.
They make everyone else scaredbecause they're scared, hurt
people hurt people every time.
(40:02):
It's just a fact.
Think about it in every one ofyour interactions.
It doesn't matter what it is.
It could be on a micro or amacro level.
Right, think about every timesomeone hurt you emotionally,
physically, professionally,financially.
It's because they were hurtingfirst and they just spread it.
(40:24):
That's it.
And the type of people that dothat have not taken the time to
be introspective.
They have not taken the time to, I don't know, journal, like,
write your feelings down beforeyou accidentally weaponize the
wrong ones somewhere else.
(40:45):
Right, like, let's not do that,but why not weaponize optimism
and a positive outlook?
It's really great.
I think everybody should do it.
Jess Vachon (40:56):
It is.
I love the point you justbrought up, because in Buddhism
we call that suffering right andeveryone suffers in some way.
A lot of people don't knowthey're suffering, they don't
understand it and, exactly likeyou said, the way they think
they alleviate that suffering isto make someone else suffer
with them.
Rachel Arnold (41:16):
Right.
Jess Vachon (41:16):
Whether it's intentional or unintentional,
and it's, you know, I thinkwe're seeing that amplified
right now, at least in theUnited States right, and it's
confusing to a lot of people.
Those people that are not likethat, they understand they're
suffering, they're very, youknow, attached to other people,
(41:40):
they're very magnanimous,they're very loving, they have
empathy.
It's scary and it doesn't makesense to those people.
But we need to take a step backand take a breath and realize
that not everyone has had ourlived experience.
Some people have had verydifferent experiences.
They've had trauma in their ownway and they don't know how to
(42:01):
navigate that.
And and sometimes when someoneshows up and says, oh, I can
show you the way to do that,it's the, it's the point my
fingers over here and over hereand over here and points to the
problems.
It's not you, it's them.
That to your point, is thatleadership that hurts and
doesn't understand productiveways to deal with, that isn't
(42:23):
introspective, doesn't go totherapy because they think
therapy is not appropriate forhealthy people.
Just for the record, I do it.
I think I'm healthy and I thinkI'm relatively normal People
may argue with that.
I think everyone should havethat as a basic healthcare need
(42:44):
that's fulfilled.
Rachel Arnold (42:45):
I mean I just keep showing up whenever you ask
me to.
It's because you're a greathuman, so you're doing well.
Jess Vachon (42:53):
I try.
At the end of the day, you know, and I shared this with my
kids, we come into this worldwhether we want to or not.
We should leave this world in abetter place than we found it.
It doesn't require giantstrides, it just is, can be
little steps.
There's a saying "the journeyof a thousand miles begins with
(43:14):
the first step right steps.
There's a saying the journey ofa thousand miles begins with
the first step right.
So you can cover greatdistances if you're just taking
the little steps that you needto take, and maybe that's all
you can take.
Maybe your plate is so full atthe end of the day that the only
thing you can do is maybe turnto your spouse and say I love
you and I appreciate you, oryou're saying it to someone you
(43:35):
work with.
I really appreciate what youdid today.
It helps me in these differentways little things that are
meaningful, that are truthful,that change the current right,
and we need to be doing that.
You know, in a world that rightnow seems to be in total chaos
and off the rails, we can stilllook forward and we can still
(44:02):
make these, Um, I don't knowwhat the opposite of
microaggressions would be, but,uh, micro rebellions, I guess to
change things in a morepositive way.
So yeah, um micro aggressive,micro aggressive Optimism no,
yes, we'll figure it out andI'll post it out.
We're winding down.
(44:24):
This has been great.
I want to make sure that youhave an opportunity here, before
we close out, to plug whateveryou want to plug.
So you have like 30 seconds.
Go for it.
Rachel Arnold (44:33):
Excellent one, Thank you, Jess, for having me.
I'm going to plug your show.
If you're listening to it andyou found it find it again, Do
it again, so go subscribe.
Second of all, I also host alive stream on a weekly basis,
normally on Fridays in themiddle of the day, called The
Coffee Table Talks.
You can look me up on YouTubeat the Human API , all one word.
(44:55):
Or you can look me up onLinkedIn at the human API all
one word.
Or you can look me up onLinkedIn and go follow that
secure nation page for streamupdates.
So we have a guest on this weekCassidy Trond from tech systems
.
She's going to be awesome andwe're looking forward to having
her.
Jess Vachon (45:13):
Everyone go check it out, rachel.
Thank you.
We'll have you on again becausethis was a great conversation.
Everyone go support Rachel.
Go out there, be good people,have a good day, Rachel.
Thank you again.
Rachel Arnold (45:27):
Yeah, of course.
Intro (45:30):
Thank you for listening to this episode of Voices of the
Vigilant.
If you liked what you heardtoday, please subscribe and
leave a review in your favoritepodcast app For a copy of the
transcript.
To follow Jess to apply as aguest of the show or to learn
more about services fromVigilant Violet, please visit
(45:51):
vigilantvioletcom.
Until next time, stay vigilant.
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