September 30, 2025 • 51 mins
Our conversation continues as writer and entrepreneur Sheena Hemens begins with sharing how she "fell into" business and ended up in an unguarded realization of the reality of grief, love, and the meaning of success after everything "fell apart" in 2023.
Sheena Hemens speaks on the rise of her events company, the community heartbeat of her Christchurch restaurant, and the brutal closing of doors post COVID, followed closely behind the unthinkable—her daughter Lauren’s death.
Sheena is now evolving into realising the things that truly matter in life - those closest to her. Sheena shares how self-therapy, like writing and walking on the beach have helped her to ride the waves of grief.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Voices Unhindered.
I'm Crystal Jenkinson.
On this show, I give a uniqueperspective and listening air to
voices that often go unheard.
I want everyone to know that youare not alone and that your
voice and story matters.
This week on Voices Unhindered,I have a second part to a
two-part episode with my specialguest Shaina Hemmons.
(00:28):
We go into how the loss of herformer restaurant was the first
of many losses.
Sheena Hemans' world was turnedupside down in 2023 when she was
forced to close Popular CrashJoker restaurant based on the
crash, followed by the tragicloss of her daughter Lauren
Hemans to a car accident andthen dealing with a breakup.
We talk about how the resiliencehas been a core thing in Shayna
(00:49):
Hemman's life.
Subscribe now to my Patreon,Voice the Fun Henders Podcast
and YouTube channel, which is inthe description below.
I hope you enjoy this Christina.
Hi, Christina.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Again, I'm back.
Thank you for having me back.
SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
Yeah, you're welcome.
I really enjoyed our lastconversation.
So did I.
Where we kind of left off aboutbusiness.
When did you start your firstbusiness?
How old were you?
And what did you see yourselfdoing business during your high
school years?
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Oh my gosh.
No.
Definitely did not envisageseeing um doing anything
business-wise while I was atschool.
But then again, I didn't reallyknow what I wanted to do when I
was at school.
So everything in my life hashappened very organically, or
I've kind of fallen into thingsand then just decided to get run
(01:47):
with it.
You know, I didn't have a aplan.
So my first business happenedreally um almost by accident.
I had been working um for aninvestment bank for four years.
Um, and that was the first jobthat I actually had after my
marriage ended.
So my children were young.
(02:07):
I was working, I startedpart-time, and then as they got
older and more settled atschool, I went into full-time.
Um, but it, you know, I lovedthe job, and it was a really,
really good four years where Ilearned a lot about myself, but
I knew that I was capable ofmore.
And so, as as often in manystories, I think, you get a
(02:29):
someone who inspires you orhelps you.
And for me, that was um a clientof the bank.
I I won't mention any names, butshe was um an amazing woman, um,
very strong, very umaccomplished and driven, and she
knew exactly where she, youknow, was heading.
And um and she saw something inme.
(02:53):
And she essentially encouragedme to go out on my own and said
that she would be my firstclient and that I would that I'd
be great and that she reallybelieved in me.
And yeah, I believed her.
And so I kind of did.
I I um started um what wouldbecome essentially a marketing
(03:15):
and events agency.
Um, but yeah, I ran events forher, I did other kind of um
product management style workfor her.
She had a lot of differentbusinesses and properties and
different things like that.
Um, and it grew from there.
Um, and it became what was namedthe go-to company, and we ran I
(03:39):
ran that for six years um anddid quite a lot of work after
the earthquake with Sierra andwith the council and ran a lot
of events and ran things likethe House uh Master Builder's
House of the Year for threeyears in a row.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
And sorry, just to um interrupt, did was this back
in London you know?
No, no, this was here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
This was here after my breakup.
So this was here, this wasliterally just I started the
business in 2010.
So just before before the f thefirst earthquake, actually.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Wow.
It's in London.
Like I'm really interested toknow your girls and your boy,
was he born yet?
Or were they?
SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
I I came over here in 1996 and the girls were not
um uh just over a year old.
So no, I didn't come here tillninety yeah, ninety-six.
So I lived yeah, in the UK,lived in London, lived in lots
of places actually, because myex-husband was in the British
(04:39):
Army, was an officer in thearmy.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Oh that's amazing.
And so your ex-husband isn't.
No, he's here.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
We we all came over together.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
I see.
SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
Because it was his dream to come here, and he's
still here.
And you know, he he wanted tocome over here, he was in the
army, he'd done a thing calledLonglook, which all anyone
listening who knows someone inthe Ubr um New Zealand Army will
probably know what that is.
It's like an exchange betweenthe British Army and the New
Zealand Army.
And so he came over and it wasbased at Burnham.
(05:12):
And I say based because I thinkall he did really was travel and
have a great time and see thecountry and fall in love with
it.
Um and then when he came back,he said, I want to go and live
there.
I really didn't know exactlywhere New Zealand was or didn't
really know anything.
I mean, this is 30 years agowe're talking, you know, and I
um anything other than ShortlandStreet.
SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
I remember watching Shortland Street and thinking,
ah, this is what it's like.
You know like Coronation Street.
A bit like, yeah, anyonewatching Coronation Street would
think that that's what the wholeof the UK is like.
So um and we came here in '96,and I've been here ever since.
Yeah.
And what led you guys to breakup?
We're like oil and water.
(05:55):
We weren't a couple that arguedlots, we didn't have, you know,
a really dreadful relationship.
We just did not sync well, youknow.
We didn't great parents, and I'mreally proud of the job that we
did as parents and are doing asparents, but we were just not
right for each other for varyingreasons, nothing which is either
(06:17):
of our faults.
But I think any relationship,it's a combination of the
childhood that you had, the rolemodels that you had, the way you
were brought up, the beliefsystems that you have, when you
mix it with another person whohas a completely different set
of those things.
Like worldview.
Not even.
I mean, I'm talking more kind ofinternal beliefs and sys you
(06:40):
know, belief systems and andways of being.
Um, then yeah, you just suddenlyfind that you're not really that
comp I suppose I'm talking aboutcompatibility.
SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
That yeah, we were not that compatible and we broke
up very amicably.
I mean, we did not argue, wehardly used any lawyers, there
was no fighting.
We wanted it to be for thechildren.
And that's been the way thatwe've we've done it.
Um and now that the kids areolder, you know, I've talked to
them about the breakup and theysay that, yeah, you did it
(07:13):
really well.
There was nothing that we feeltraumatized us.
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
That's quite unusual because usually it's, you know,
it's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
And I think that I think that must be so hard.
One thing that I say, and Idon't know if this would help
anyone going through this, butwe always said that we will we
went from being married tohaving a business, and the
business was the children.
And so we continuing after weseparated to relate to each
(07:43):
other and to treat each other ina way that would be in the best
interests of the children, justlike you would if you had a
business.
You would do everything thatwould be in that the business's
best interests, and that's howwe did it.
We tried to make sure that theywere not affected.
It'd be wonderful, wouldn't it,to know that any people breaking
(08:03):
up who have kids can do that.
But I know it's not alwayswithin our power, so I feel very
grateful.
SPEAKER_02 (08:09):
It was very uncivil in my it was very violent and
hence why I grew up with mygrandparents, mainly because of
the dysfunction between my ownum parents.
With there was alcohol involvedand there was um drugs.
That would have been so hard.
So yeah.
You're lucky you had yourgrandparents.
Exactly.
I I think like I would havecould have ended up in like
state care if it wasn't forthem.
(08:30):
That's how bad it was.
They were kind of like myrescuers.
I wanted to ask, how did yourealize that your motivation to
be successful in business, likemore recently, came from your
desire to prove your value toothers?
And why do you think that youhad to prove yourself through
your achievements?
Ooh, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Look, I think I said that in the last one that I
definitely felt like I hadsomething to prove.
Um look, I think we all haveinsecurities.
We all have um these parts ofourselves that we potentially
are either um, you know, in somecases, I don't think this is in
(09:10):
my case, but embarrassed of.
But I do think there are thingsthat we don't like about either
where we've come from or um howwe are, and that we want to
change them.
And the way that we choose tochange them can be in a lot of
different ways.
And for me, you know, itinitially was a through having a
family and being the best parentthat I could be.
(09:34):
Um, but then when it came tobusiness, I I felt that I had to
overcome the fact that I feltlike nobody in my family had
been successful.
That I wanted to prove to peoplewas that, you know, I didn't do
particularly well at school anddidn't, you know, get great
(09:56):
qualifications and But you gotlike A's at high school, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
For your writing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:00):
Well, I did, but then I was convinced by by my
parents that writing would endup with me living in a cardboard
box.
So I was told I had to doscience and chemistry and
physics.
Which I failed miserably becauseyou know, you can't you can't be
successful at something that youhate.
(10:20):
So yeah, so I didn't do thatwell.
And so I think that I reallywanted to prove that I had a
brain, that I was able to besuccessful, um, and it kind of
manifests itself in this umdesire to be successful in
business.
I wanted to have that respect.
(10:42):
I wanted to have theacknowledgement.
And and this is one thing thathas changed a lot about me since
Lauren's death is that, youknow, I kind of felt I wanted
the status of being a successfulperson.
I liked all of the accoutrementsof success, all of the ways, you
know, that that you had a nicecar and a nice home and fancy
(11:06):
clothes and designer labels andall of that.
Did you grow up with that?
No, that's the whole point.
I didn't came from an incrediblypoor family.
Even though your mum was like ina higher caste, she still didn't
come with like she's not.
Well no, because she left sheleft all of that behind and went
to London with pretty muchnothing.
And like she wasn't getting anylike money or anything.
No, yeah.
They pretty much disowned herfrom because she's understand.
(11:29):
So no, they I grew up with verylittle.
And, you know, with my fatherbeing an alcoholic, he lost his
job all the time.
And you know, it was a very itwas a simple childhood in terms
of um that you know, financialsuccess.
So I really what aspired tothat.
(11:49):
That's the word I will use.
I had aspirations of um pullingmyself out of what I felt was
that kind of um notimpoverished, that sounds a
little bit dramatic because wewere never impoverished, we
always had a place to live andpay put, you know, put food on
(12:10):
the table, but just that verybasic life.
And I wanted more.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
And I thought that I could get that through business
success and work very hard.
And you know, the thing was Iwas successful, but none of it
actually made me any happier.
None of it ever made me feelfully enough.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
How would you describe it made you feel when
you became like quite successfulin your businesses?
How would you feel the feeling?
Like, how would you describe thefeeling?
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Well, it was it was great and it was fun, and I I
had um, you know, I had niceclothes, and I think people
would look at me and see someonewho was successful, which is I
think what I wanted, or at leastthat's what I thought I wanted.
Actually, um, you know, whenwhen everything gets taken away
from you in my situation, Istarted to really understand
(13:02):
what was truly important inlife, and it wasn't all of that.
It was like I'd worked so hardmy whole life chasing all this
stuff, all this um materialthings, I guess, I was very
materialistic.
And um when it but when it allwent and I had nothing, and
(13:27):
literally every single pillar ofmy life fell over.
You I don't know, I justrealized actually none of that
means anything.
It's all of those other things,those intangible things, those
are the things that truly meanhappiness.
It's beautiful, yeah.
And yeah, it's it doesn't mean Ididn't have fun starting
(13:51):
business.
I you know, I thought I lovedit, and I loved the work that I
did, the people that I met.
Um when we you know, there'snothing more fun and and
exciting than having an eventthat's got, you know, a thousand
people, um, setting up the room,um, making sure everything runs
smoothly, seeing everybody happyand having a good time, and the
(14:13):
client being, you know, reallyhappy at the end of it.
Everything that I did, includingthe restaurant, was really
about, for me, about creating umthings that made people happy,
other people happy.
I loved I love to do that.
I love to be the hostess, youknow, the kind of person that um
(14:33):
made things happen, got thingsdone.
But underneath it all was thisdesire, need, actually, I would
say, to have other people, youknow, respect and admire me.
And I think that just came fromhaving nothing when I was young.
Came from uh being Yeah, justfeeling like I was not enough.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
I know I'm not beating myself up about it, but
I did.
I used to when I was a lotyounger.
SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
I wanted to ask a little bit about your parents.
When they left Sri Lanka, didthey kind of carry like you said
they kind of blended into theculture in London.
SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
So it and Well, they sort of took it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:14):
Yeah.
Did you learn much about yourlike standard family?
But did your mum hawk her backor they've kind of disowned me?
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
It's quite complicated, my childhood and my
memories of my childhood, and Idon't have an awful lot of
memories of my childhood andwhat that means.
But I do remember just notreally knowing much about their
backgrounds.
There were snippets, you know,and you know how when you get
together with your family andmaybe extended family or friends
(15:41):
at a dinner table and peoplewill tell stories.
Um I remember stor the same, youknow, it's always the same
stories, isn't it?
We always get roll our eyesbecause our parents or
grandparents tell the samestories every time.
Um so there are certain storiesthat I remember.
I remember them talking about umwhen they came to England and
(16:02):
they drove a Model T Ford,apparently, um from London to to
Sri Lanka and Colombo, or maybeit was the other way around.
I can't actually even remember.
Um, but that they told all thesethese crazy stories about trips
they'd had and places they'dbeen to and and um memories, and
(16:26):
I don't know which ones are arereal, which ones are kind of
made up, because um there wereso many gaps in the story, and
I'm currently um puttingtogether a memoir of sorts, and
there's parts of this story Iyou know, there's so many holes
(16:46):
I don't n can't fill at themoment in terms of there's
nobody who can yeah.
I mean my mum is 96 and hasdementia and really does not
remember anything.
Which is sad.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
Is she back in London?
No, she's here.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
She's here in a in a retirement home.
And um and she doesn't remember.
I can't really ask her aboutanything.
Um and if I do ask her, she'llget very confused as people with
dementia often do.
Um so we just don't.
I, you know, my father died manyyears ago, so he's not around.
I don't really have any otherfamily to ask.
(17:25):
But it's it's intriguing to meto try and piece together the
puzzle, you know, the jigsaw oftheir lives, my lives.
Um because it it just doesn't,some of it doesn't make sense.
Um and I don't want to repeatmyself one last time, but you
know, um I was actually tellingmy partner the other day that um
(17:48):
that my grandmother, my mother'smother, which was normal of the
day in Sri Lanka.
We've got to remember, please,that there this is in the day
and uh back in the day, manyyears ago in Sri Lanka.
She was 13 when she got married,and her husband, my grandfather,
was in his 30s.
Yeah.
You know, I mean scandalousstuff.
(18:08):
It's really just all wrong onmany levels, but that was just
how things were back then.
But then that makes whathappened with my mum really
quite strange, because my mumwas not married until she was
30, 3-0.
And I'm sure that back in thosedays that would have been quite
late.
Late.
(18:29):
So and I don't know why.
I don't know why that was thecase.
And I'm not saying I w wantedher to get married at 14 or
something, but you know, forgirls to be married before the
age of 20 was not uncommon whenyou read I've read some
historical things about SriLanka at that time.
Yeah, that would have beennormal normal.
So for her to be an unmarriedwoman at 30 is quite strange.
(18:52):
So yeah, there's all thesequestions.
Um I don't know if that'sanswered your question, but I I
don't know an awful lot, I wouldsay, is the best way to put it.
Yeah.
But I'm interested.
SPEAKER_02 (19:03):
When you lost your dad at 17, uh do you remember
grieving or like how if itaffected you in any way?
SPEAKER_01 (19:09):
Like well, that is a really good question.
It is possible because Iremember taking my exams and
things not long afterwards.
But at the time, my my memorynow of that time was that I did
not grieve that much, that I wasmore angry than grieving, that I
was hurt that he chose alcoholand drinking over staying with
(19:35):
me and my family.
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
You know, and because I was young, I meant
really me, not my family.
It's only a 17-year-old girl,that's it's all about you.
Um and I did.
I was angry with him for leavingme.
I was angry with him for for notcaring enough to stop drinking
and stay.
I mean, I was really naive.
Um, and I remember not feelinganything but those kind of
(20:04):
negative emotions and almost notbeing able to cope with my
mother's grief because I was sotorn up and hurt and angry in my
own kind of um oh, just thiswhirlwind wind of negative
emotion, anger and all, youknow, which I understand is also
(20:25):
part of grief.
And that went on for like twoyears.
I was so, so angry with him.
And then did I talk about thiswhen I had to go back and pack
up my mum's house?
No, no, no.
So I she moved house two yearsafter he died, and her and she
said, Can you come and help mewith his stuff?
(20:46):
And so I remember walking intotheir bedroom and opening the
wardrobe, and his he had notmoved or touched anything of
his.
And he had all his suits andshirts and ties, because that's
what everybody wore back then,you know, to work.
Um and as soon as I opened thethe wardrobe, the smell of him
(21:10):
just came out, and it was this msmell of tobacco and whiskey and
just whatever aftershave hewore, I don't know.
And smells are incrediblypowerful.
Like they really are.
And I smell my grandma's oldcoat, and it still smells like
her after five years.
SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah.
I know.
And that smell, you know, anysmell, a particular perfume or
aftershave or something, itreally apparently it it
activates all of the memory partof your brain.
And so that's what happened.
I opened up this thing, and thenI remember getting I had bin
bags, and I was trying to stuffall these clothes into these bin
(21:50):
bags, and just crying and cryingand crying, and ending up lying
on the floor, crying, you know,dramatically covered in his
clothes and ties and all of thatsort of thing, and having this
humongous moment of true griefand sadness and just yeah.
(22:11):
And um, I like to think when Ilook back, and I have no idea if
this is true because ourmemories are so warped when
you're, you know, when you'reyoung and how they change, like
it's like a Chinese whispers ofof memories.
But in my mind, I think that Imade my peace with him on the
floor in that bedroom,surrounded by his clothes.
(22:35):
And when I left I felt muchlighter and I felt that he was
with me in some way and that hewould understand how angry I was
and why it took me so long tocry.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
You know, and we you know, we do, we create these
thoughts that make us feelbetter.
And that was m the thought thatmade me feel better, whether I
it was true or not true.
I but tr chose to believe thathe was at peace and that he was
at peace with me and I was atpeace with him.
SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
And do you find this like I don't know if you did
this, but like after my grandmabecause we were so close, me and
my grandma, like after shepassed, I s I used to say like,
oh I miss you, grandma.
And I even say it now sometimes,and even though they're not
there, like it's not like you'respeaking to them, but it like it
kind of feels like in you like,Why am I doing this?
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
It's a bit weird, but then you know, like you
can't did you do that, like whenyou're dad Well I probably
didn't with my dad.
Um I don't think that I wasaware enough, and I don't think
we were close enough for me tohave that kind of reaction.
But I do it with Lauren.
(23:49):
Yeah.
And I don't think there'sanything weird or strange about
it because I truly believe theirenergy is all around us.
And I think that we can tap intosometimes the energy of them
being here and and I think theylive on inside of us.
(24:11):
So if you you know, if you missyour grandmother, if something
happens and you miss yourgrandmother, I don't think that
talking to her because maybeyou're talking to her, to the
part of her that exists withinyou.
She'll be there within you.
And maybe when you're speakingto her, that's who you spoke
speaking to, not just somerandom ghost or we know that's
(24:32):
what I feel like.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
I'm like, I don't want to speak to any ghosts.
unknown (24:35):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
But you know, maybe her energy is out there
somewhere, and um that's what Ithink, you know.
And um, yeah, some people mightthink that that's strange, some
people might think that's verynormal, and some people I know
will think much more than that.
They will genuinely feel likethey can feel the presence of
the people that they've lost.
(24:56):
And I think whatever we feel,whatever makes us feel better,
whatever allows us to cope,whatever allows us to kind of
move forward, is uh it's allgood.
SPEAKER_02 (25:11):
I was just gonna ask about your grieving journey
after your loss of Lauren in2023.
Um, what has the process taughtyou?
I know it's there's a lot, butwell that's yeah, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Um and it's still an ongoing process.
Let me please first.
SPEAKER_02 (25:31):
And I'm like, when am I gonna get over this?
SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
Well, you won't as I You know, it's like that's like
say, well, well, will I stallstop loving someone?
You can't stop loving them.
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
It is a massive part of it.
If you didn't like love them,you wouldn't be grieving.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
So absolutely, absolutely, and yeah, I think
that um I've done a lot ofreflecting about this, um,
because my grief journey hasbeen uh complicated, especially
at the beginning.
And I said this last time, youknow, I lost a lot of things all
(26:06):
at the same time, includingLauren.
And so some of the grief that Imaybe would normally have
reserved for her was spread out.
If there is such a thing, if ifyou know, if we have an infinite
amount of grief or whether it'sa specified amount, I don't
know.
But I had grief about so manythings all at the same time, and
(26:27):
it was extremely confusing andconfronting.
But the the grief for Lauren hasit it changes and it morphs and
it sometimes it's huge and seemsincredibly overwhelming, and
then sometimes it's just it'sit's small and fragile and um
(26:50):
and sometimes I f personallyfeel like it's shrouded in guilt
where I feel I'm not grievingenough for her, or you know,
maybe I should have cried.
It's been a few days or weeks orwhatever since I last cried, and
there's that because there is noright or wrong, and I have to
keep reminding of myself mmyself of that on a daily basis
(27:13):
almost.
But mine was made a little bitmore complicated.
But the fact that I have twochildren and who are both
grieving for their sister indifferent ways, um, one of them
obviously her twin sister.
And being a mother, that's whatyou have to do.
You cannot p dump your grief andfeelings onto them.
(27:33):
I found creative writing really,really helpful for getting
through my grief because yes, Italk to friends.
I'm very so blessed withincredible friends who heard all
of my um grief as it unfolded inall the different ways that it
um kind of manifested.
(27:55):
But to be quite honest, um therewas so much more, and I did not
know how to to processeverything that I felt um and
also all the anger that I felt,and not just about what had
happened to Lauren, but also theanger towards my ex-partner who
(28:17):
had basically let me down in theworst way possible, um, and
hadn't been there for me when Iwas, you know, grieving and at
my at my most vulnerable.
Even to the driver that that hitLauren, there was just all this
anger and kind of pain.
And I actually found thatwriting a story made it easier
(28:42):
because somehow it kind of setremoved it.
Like I was still writing aboutme, but I was writing it in the
in the name of this characterwho was called Daisy.
And Daisy she really was a weewhiny little victim because
that's what my internal griefand my internal story was.
(29:03):
But yeah, she allowed me tocommunicate and express and
exhibit just all of thosefeelings I put into her and the
novel and the characters, and Iwrote 80,000 words in about
eight months, and it's not thatgreat at all, but it was so
(29:26):
therapeutic.
Or whether I'm writing a piecethat is based on my emotions, I
actually bought along a piece toread.
SPEAKER_02 (29:34):
Wanna read it?
Yes, it is a bit sad.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
The reason I wrote this was because one of the
things I found was I loved goingto the beach, and this is
something that I have writtenbased on that love of the beach
and why I I love to and this isbasically part of my memoir that
I'm writing.
SPEAKER_00 (29:58):
So I stand
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
Stand on the beach and contemplate the last two
years of my life.
Waves are all around me, insideand out.
Heaving, rolling globs of griefand warm gratitude combine with
the sandy, salty waves hittingthe beach and the trickle of
tears on my face.
Today the world is peaceful, noother footsteps in the sand,
(30:22):
nothing but the symphony of thesea, but I do not feel alone.
The clashing cymbals of thewatery mass hitting the beach,
and the mournful resonance ofthe sea calling back its waters
thrums like violent vibrationsof a tightly wound bass drum.
The sun tries to shine, but theclouds are low and full, and the
(30:43):
air is thick with warm moistureand muted yellowness.
The beach always does this tome, draws me out of my feelings
and emotions, heightens them andmakes me face them head on.
I breathe in deeply.
This is the only place I canreally do this.
It is like my body doesn't feelsafe to take a deep breath,
(31:04):
except at the beach.
It confounds me as I can't swim,and the enormity and endlessness
of the sea scares me.
And yet here it is.
I feel safe to breathe.
My breath seems to synchronizewith the rhythm of the ocean in
and out, pain and release.
Here my grief can run free, findits wild edge, scream silently
(31:29):
across the miles of balloons,the disappearing sounds of my
sadness floating up and away anddrifting down, down as far as it
is possible to go.
This is where I feel closest toLauren.
I feel her here, or at least I'dimagine I do, her bright energy
and unapologetic clarity.
(31:50):
When I speak to her at thebeach, I can feel her replies
and the salty air all around me.
Am I trying to find myself orlose myself?
Or maybe just find a place tobe.
Ever since the accident I havefelt like I am in a washing
machine.
Sometimes I am enjoy therhythmically soft massage of
(32:10):
warm water.
It feels like watery happiness,warming gratitude, and peaks of
sunlight through filmy voilcurtains.
But at times my tears are justunder the surface, threatening
to overflow, and the water keepsrushing in and I am powerless to
stop it.
The sudden violence of the rinseand spin cycles shake me from my
(32:32):
imagined peace, suffocating,drowning, panic and fear.
There is no breath here, norespite.
It feels like it will never everend, and I don't think I can
continue.
I feel my heart wrenching andfighting, my lungs exerting
themselves trying to push thestinging feelings from within.
(32:53):
But slowly, gently, the griefsettles and subsides, the warmth
and calm return, and I can onceagain feel gratitude and
happiness and love.
Now after the inevitabinevitability of time has had
its way with me, my grief,having entered my life so
suddenly like an over eageracquaintance, is slowly becoming
(33:17):
an old friend.
The friend you don't speak tofor ages, but when you do, it is
like she has always been there,because she has.
My old friend grief is never faraway, even when I am filled with
joy or gratitude, I can stillfeel her, her arms wrapped
around me or holding my hand,waiting for that song or that
(33:37):
smell, or that girl that lookslike Lauren.
I realize now that I have neverreally truly felt grief in my
life or even really consideredit, never thought about it in a
way that really matters.
Maybe in an intellectual way orin an empathetic way when faced
with someone else's grief.
I had viewed it as somethingthat affected others.
(34:00):
We all know at an intellectuallevel that we will die one day,
but we don't feel it.
And I had been blindly goingthrough life not thinking, not
realizing that real loss waspossible for me, not ever
thinking it would ever frogmarch into my life and destroy
everything that I thought wastrue.
Not until the day my daughterdied, because to feel grief you
(34:22):
need to have lost, and losing achild is amongst the worst thing
a parent can lose.
And now I believe that my griefis just Lauren reaching out to
me, speaking to me, reminding methat she loves me and knows that
she is love, and her language isnow a rainbow, a blue sky, a
hummingbird, or a butterfly.
(34:45):
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
I almost cried.
Yeah.
So that's what I have been doingto help myself to get through my
my grief.
SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
Been writing a novel and a memoir, so um And it's
often described as waves, eh?
Grief.
Like Yeah.
Did you feel like that with yourgrandmother?
I still feel like that.
Like it it's so weird.
You wake up, wait, they're gone.
Like it just felt like yesterdayshe was here and it w it's been
five plus years.
I'm like, it's just it was hardbecause I was like, I wished I
(35:18):
had all this guilt.
I was like, I should have, youknow, been there, cared for her.
I was like in India with mydaughter's dad, and that was a
mess, but like and I should justcame back before COVID, and then
COVID happened, and then she waslike, you know, in care.
Oh, that would have been hard.
And I was like, she didn't wantme to see her, so like skinny
and suffering, and I was like,oh my gosh, I'm in a nightmare.
That's what it feels like.
SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
Okay, like that's and he can't wake up and yeah,
yeah.
I said I did not believe that itwould happen to me.
I mean, I really didn't, and Icannot believe my naivety in
terms of the knowledge that Ihave now.
I just didn't go there in mymind to think that something
like this would ever happen.
(35:59):
That when it first happens, allthere is is the grief.
But little by little you rebuildyour life around it and the you
know, and you find happiness andyou find joy, and um, you know,
I've met someone since the lasttime I was on.
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
Yes.
We don't mismatch people.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
Um, yes, I have met someone, and um and he's really
yeah, he's been it's beenlife-changing, and he's been um
someone who has accepted that heknew who he basically knew from
pretty much the beginning thatwhat I had been through, and um
(36:41):
he accepts me with the waves aswell as the happiness within me.
I don't always feel I have to beon with him.
I can feel if I feel sad, I canfeel sad, and he just totally
holds space for me.
I actually never knew what thatmeant.
Like you hear people to sayingabout someone, oh, they, you
know, you've got to hold spacefor someone.
(37:02):
And I was just like, what doesthat mean?
But I know what that means nowbecause he does that.
He allows me, he creates a spacethat's safe for me to have the
feelings that I have, um, and tobe the most real version of me
that I can.
Um and yeah, and we have similarvalues in terms of our outlook
(37:27):
on life and family, and yeah,and he's fun and his he's
brought back um an element ofjoy into my life, which um is
unexpected.
Um yeah, but it's been really,really good.
And um, and of course I have mylovely granddaughter who is a
joy every single day, you know.
(37:48):
But um, she's cute.
Yeah, she is amazing.
She is amazing.
And that's the thing I thinkthat you know, all that time I
said to you that I was chasing,trying to show uh other people
that I was worthy or that I wasum successful or all of that
kind of stuff.
It seems so pointless nowbecause all I want is to have
(38:11):
people around that love me andthat I love, and to do things
that are meaningful um with goodpeople, you know, to have joy in
my life.
Those things are the things thatare so important now.
And anything that I do in termsof work, the writing that I do,
the time I spend with mygranddaughter and my daughter
(38:32):
and my son when he's in town,and my partner, and getting to
know, you know, his family andall of those things and meeting
new friends, all of thosethings, those connections, those
points um where you learnsomething about somebody else,
they have just become so muchmore important to me than all
(38:54):
the things I used to think wereimportant.
And yeah, it's just you don'tthink that at the age of 58
you're going to change sodramatically.
But I have.
And and I'm actually quitegrateful for it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:10):
So do those things still matter to you, like
climbing the ladder of success,or do they um like they're still
important, but they're not likethey've taken a kind of bet?
I think of course I want to besuccessful.
SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
I but my I guess my definition of success is
slightly different.
Um I want to do things that havemeaning.
And some of the the I've donesome charity work with um last
year I helped on the um theChristchurch Country Fate, which
was a community event, and thatwas so great to be a part of
(39:44):
something like that and to helpum, you know, to make that
happen and and use the skillsthat I've got to help make that
happen.
That was wonderful.
And then this year I'm looking,I'm basically um dealing with a
uh um a charity called theIndian New Zealand Sporting
Charitable Trust.
(40:05):
And we're the plan is that theywant to bring over a group of um
kind of um underprivileged kidsfrom India and also take some
children from Christchurch anddo an exchange, um, which is
based around rugby.
It's it's being led by NormMaxwell, the former All Black,
and um the CEO of a tour companycalled Total Sports Tours, um, a
(40:30):
guy called Phil Robson.
And these guys are just sopassionate about using sport for
good, for um, you know, helpingkids to be the best that they
can be, to experience joy, totruly um see the world and to
see the bigger picture and to becompassionate about other
(40:52):
cultures and um, you know, totry and overcome this that
there's a underbelly,unfortunately, of racism.
And we're, you know, by tryingto help these kids to actually
teach them and educate them thatthere are different ways of
being and different cultures inthe world.
Um, and that's something thatI'm involved in and really
(41:14):
enjoying.
SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
I wanted to ask, how did you meet your partner and do
you still attract the same guysthat you once did before, you
know, you've been through thiswhole Um, I would say that um I
don't I'm not really sure that Iwas attracting anybody after all
this happened.
SPEAKER_01 (41:34):
Um I don't think that I was particularly um I
thought I was open to it, but Ireally wasn't.
Um and yeah, the and and I alsohave become and I don't know if
this is I seriously don't knowif this is because of my age or
because of menopause or becauseof of what I went through my
(41:55):
trauma, but I have no patience.
Like I have no tolerance foridiots.
I really don't.
And so yeah, it was like if Iwas on a dating app or
something, I just not really Ijust had no patience.
It was just, yeah, it waspainful.
So I had come off any datingapps or anything like that.
(42:15):
My partner was introduced to methrough a friend.
SPEAKER_02 (42:19):
That's cool.
SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
You know, and we all say, Oh my gosh, I wish I could
meet someone the old-fashionedway.
SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
I loved it.
Yes, and that's what happens.
SPEAKER_01 (42:26):
Yeah.
So this friend of mine said, Doyou want to meet this friend of
mine?
And I was just like, Oh god, itcan't be any worse than the
people I'm meeting on theseapps.
So yeah, why not?
And and it was not a love atfirst sight thing.
It was not um interesting.
In fact, there was about threeor four weeks between the first
date and the second date.
But I think um, you know, I knewhe was a good guy.
(42:50):
That much was incredibly clear.
And on the second date, Iactually told him about Lauren.
And he told me about some of histhings that had happened that
were important to him in hislife.
And we just connected.
I won't say we connected overour traumas.
I think it was quite theopposite.
I think what we'd connected overwas that we had both had crap
(43:13):
happen to us, but we wereresilient and we were strong and
we had the same outlook on life.
We were both wanting to grow aspeople, we both wanted to do
something that was meaningful,and I think that's what it you
know came out.
SPEAKER_02 (43:30):
Did you sync this time?
SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And on the second date, therewas a total change in chemistry,
total change in connection.
Um, and yeah, we've kind of beentogether ever since.
So it's been but everything hasfelt very natural and um
beautiful.
And um I I hope, you know, myfriends will say to me, it gives
me hope that I might meetsomeone the normal way.
(43:53):
And yes, there are there arepeople out there.
Yeah, you just have a little bitof luck and a bit of hope and
being open, I suppose.
SPEAKER_02 (44:02):
I'm not against like dating apps and all that, but
like in a way I am becausethey're just so frustrating.
I hate them.
I just I like the old-fashionedway.
Like it's so much more like youfeel like you can be yourself
and they know who you arestraight away.
SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
Like you just kind of click if you like each other
and as friends or whatever, andthen you just kind of know from
the I think the issue with thedating apps is, you know, and I
used to write a dating column ina magazine at one point, but I
think the dating apps createsthis there's too much choice.
Yeah, I think and people justdon't want to commit.
(44:37):
It doesn't encourage commitmentbecause then you might go, well,
I don't want to commit to thatone because there's might be
another one that would be betterfor me.
Instead of going, I actuallyreally like this guy and I'd
like to commit to that to seewhere this could go, you know.
Um or or the other way around,you know, a guy saying, Yes, I
(45:00):
there's something amazing aboutthat woman and I'd like to get
to know her better.
It's almost like, well, yeah, Icould get to know her better,
but what happens if there'sactually someone better around
the corner or on the next swipe?
And that so I don't think that'svery healthy.
But so I am very glad to not bein that situation anymore.
But I have lots of friends thatare when I look at 2023, I would
(45:24):
say that it started with theclosure of my restaurant.
And, you know, that restaurant,Maison de Crepe, had been like
my baby.
I'd had it for eight years.
It, you know, so many wonderfulpeople came into my life,
whether they were staff or themany customers that we had.
SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
Yeah, they were lovely staff.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
Yeah, the staff were fantastic, and the regulars were
amazing, and we had beautiful,um, you know, just amazing
celebrations of joy and um, youknow, birthdays and
anniversaries and um peoplegraduating and just lots of
wonderful things that happenedwithin that that business.
(46:02):
And, you know, we won awards andwe just had had so much joy that
came out of it.
But it was also incredibly hardwork.
And when COVID came along, um,you know, it's just one of those
things where you just go,something that you have no
control over can come in andsteamroller over your life.
(46:25):
And unfortunately, I just didnot have the funds to get
through that.
You needed deep pockets to getthrough COVID.
Um, and I take my hat off to allof the businesses that survived
and have grown and done well,but I know that they would have
had to reinvest into theirbusinesses in order to do that,
and I just couldn't.
And actually, when I closed thedoors on the business, um, you
(46:49):
know, I basically had losteverything.
So it's almost like the businesswas the first notch of grief in
that year because I was so sadabout it closing.
Um, even though I found jobs orwell, the jobs were found for
all of the staff, not one ofthem didn't get a job.
(47:11):
Um it was so hard saying goodbyeto that family um and to the to
the customers that had been soloyal.
And facing that failure, youknow, for me, facing that
failure of that business notsurviving um was very difficult.
(47:33):
And then two months later,Lauren had ha the accident.
And so I was already at quite aweak point.
I was already grieving.
Um, I think I also knew that myrelationship was on its last
legs at that stage.
And so um, yeah, the the yearitself was um started with the
(47:59):
restaurant and just ended witheverything kind of disappearing
out from under me.
SPEAKER_02 (48:05):
And um did it affect your confidence, like your your
identity, your your worth.
SPEAKER_01 (48:13):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean confidence for sure, andI'm still in the process of
rebuilding that.
Um and you know, I I think yes,identity definitely worth.
I don't think I felt worth anyless, but I've always felt like
I know my own worth.
(48:34):
I think that's something thatI've been quite strong on.
But definitely my identity haschanged.
I don't think I'm well, I knowI'm not the same person that I
was before all of this happened.
Um, I am a completely different.
SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
Did I meet you before then, right?
Yeah.
I was speaking to you in thelounge there with your dog.
SPEAKER_01 (48:52):
Yes, and my dog Alfie, which so I had to put him
down like three months afterLauren died.
You know, I mean, oh my god.
I mean, I just look back and go,oh, what didn't happen?
What didn't happen, you know, inthat year.
Um I in fact, I've been asked tospeak um at the Inspire Me Um
(49:12):
Women's Conference, which takesplace on the 2nd of October, um,
and I'm been asked to speakabout resilience and what
happened to me in that year andhow how on earth I got through
it.
And I just, yeah, I still lookback with surprise that I
actually did.
I will say that I believe thatall of those things that went,
(49:36):
all of those things thathappened to me, all of the um
the ways that the rug was pulledout from under me apart from
Lauren, all of those thingsneeded to go.
I look back and I can see andnot talking about Lauren, those
(49:57):
things that I felt had beentaken away from me, though I
think I was released from all ofthose things that weren't
serving me, but that I just didnot have the foresight to see or
the guts to change.
It was all changed for me.
I don't think you can change asmuch as I've changed in the last
couple of years.
(50:17):
And but the interesting uh partof um my journey in change is
the fact that I can't reallywatch or l read really ugly
things.
Like I don't like true crime.
It kind of triggers me actuallyabout everything that happened.
So 2023, 2024, when I wrote umthe novel that will never see
(50:39):
the light of day, um, which Icall my therapy, um, I l it was
my reason to get up.
I literally got up and got readyand put, you know, had my
breakfast and then I would sitdown at the computer every day
like I was some and some days Iwould write for seven or eight
hours.
Thank you so much for having me.
Oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_02 (51:20):
It's great hearing from my listeners.
Reach out with questions andcomments through Insta or
Facebook.
Just search for VoicesUnhindered.
I'm interested to know whatother topics and voices you'd
like me to bring on the show.
Subscribe to Voices Unhinderedon Spotify or Apple Podcasts to
never miss an episode.
Hello and welcome to Voices Unhindered.
I'm Crystal Jenkinson.
On this show, I give a uniqueperspective and listening air to
voices that often go unheard.
I want everyone to know that youare not alone and that your
voice and story matters.
This week on Voices Unhindered,I have a second part to a
two-part episode with my specialguest Shaina Hemmons.
(00:28):
We go into how the loss of herformer restaurant was the first
of many losses.
Sheena Hemans' world was turnedupside down in 2023 when she was
forced to close Popular CrashJoker restaurant based on the
crash, followed by the tragicloss of her daughter Lauren
Hemans to a car accident andthen dealing with a breakup.
We talk about how the resiliencehas been a core thing in Shayna
(00:49):
Hemman's life.
Subscribe now to my Patreon,Voice the Fun Henders Podcast
and YouTube channel, which is inthe description below.
I hope you enjoy this Christina.
Hi, Christina.
SPEAKER_01 (01:09):
Again, I'm back.
Thank you for having me back.
SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
Yeah, you're welcome.
I really enjoyed our lastconversation.
So did I.
Where we kind of left off aboutbusiness.
When did you start your firstbusiness?
How old were you?
And what did you see yourselfdoing business during your high
school years?
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Oh my gosh.
No.
Definitely did not envisageseeing um doing anything
business-wise while I was atschool.
But then again, I didn't reallyknow what I wanted to do when I
was at school.
So everything in my life hashappened very organically, or
I've kind of fallen into thingsand then just decided to get run
(01:47):
with it.
You know, I didn't have a aplan.
So my first business happenedreally um almost by accident.
I had been working um for aninvestment bank for four years.
Um, and that was the first jobthat I actually had after my
marriage ended.
So my children were young.
(02:07):
I was working, I startedpart-time, and then as they got
older and more settled atschool, I went into full-time.
Um, but it, you know, I lovedthe job, and it was a really,
really good four years where Ilearned a lot about myself, but
I knew that I was capable ofmore.
And so, as as often in manystories, I think, you get a
(02:29):
someone who inspires you orhelps you.
And for me, that was um a clientof the bank.
I I won't mention any names, butshe was um an amazing woman, um,
very strong, very umaccomplished and driven, and she
knew exactly where she, youknow, was heading.
And um and she saw something inme.
(02:53):
And she essentially encouragedme to go out on my own and said
that she would be my firstclient and that I would that I'd
be great and that she reallybelieved in me.
And yeah, I believed her.
And so I kind of did.
I I um started um what wouldbecome essentially a marketing
(03:15):
and events agency.
Um, but yeah, I ran events forher, I did other kind of um
product management style workfor her.
She had a lot of differentbusinesses and properties and
different things like that.
Um, and it grew from there.
Um, and it became what was namedthe go-to company, and we ran I
(03:39):
ran that for six years um anddid quite a lot of work after
the earthquake with Sierra andwith the council and ran a lot
of events and ran things likethe House uh Master Builder's
House of the Year for threeyears in a row.
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
And sorry, just to um interrupt, did was this back
in London you know?
No, no, this was here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
This was here after my breakup.
So this was here, this wasliterally just I started the
business in 2010.
So just before before the f thefirst earthquake, actually.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:11):
Wow.
It's in London.
Like I'm really interested toknow your girls and your boy,
was he born yet?
Or were they?
SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
I I came over here in 1996 and the girls were not
um uh just over a year old.
So no, I didn't come here tillninety yeah, ninety-six.
So I lived yeah, in the UK,lived in London, lived in lots
of places actually, because myex-husband was in the British
(04:39):
Army, was an officer in thearmy.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Oh that's amazing.
And so your ex-husband isn't.
No, he's here.
SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
We we all came over together.
SPEAKER_00 (04:47):
I see.
SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
Because it was his dream to come here, and he's
still here.
And you know, he he wanted tocome over here, he was in the
army, he'd done a thing calledLonglook, which all anyone
listening who knows someone inthe Ubr um New Zealand Army will
probably know what that is.
It's like an exchange betweenthe British Army and the New
Zealand Army.
And so he came over and it wasbased at Burnham.
(05:12):
And I say based because I thinkall he did really was travel and
have a great time and see thecountry and fall in love with
it.
Um and then when he came back,he said, I want to go and live
there.
I really didn't know exactlywhere New Zealand was or didn't
really know anything.
I mean, this is 30 years agowe're talking, you know, and I
um anything other than ShortlandStreet.
SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
I remember watching Shortland Street and thinking,
ah, this is what it's like.
You know like Coronation Street.
A bit like, yeah, anyonewatching Coronation Street would
think that that's what the wholeof the UK is like.
So um and we came here in '96,and I've been here ever since.
Yeah.
And what led you guys to breakup?
We're like oil and water.
(05:55):
We weren't a couple that arguedlots, we didn't have, you know,
a really dreadful relationship.
We just did not sync well, youknow.
We didn't great parents, and I'mreally proud of the job that we
did as parents and are doing asparents, but we were just not
right for each other for varyingreasons, nothing which is either
(06:17):
of our faults.
But I think any relationship,it's a combination of the
childhood that you had, the rolemodels that you had, the way you
were brought up, the beliefsystems that you have, when you
mix it with another person whohas a completely different set
of those things.
Like worldview.
Not even.
I mean, I'm talking more kind ofinternal beliefs and sys you
(06:40):
know, belief systems and andways of being.
Um, then yeah, you just suddenlyfind that you're not really that
comp I suppose I'm talking aboutcompatibility.
SPEAKER_00 (06:49):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
That yeah, we were not that compatible and we broke
up very amicably.
I mean, we did not argue, wehardly used any lawyers, there
was no fighting.
We wanted it to be for thechildren.
And that's been the way thatwe've we've done it.
Um and now that the kids areolder, you know, I've talked to
them about the breakup and theysay that, yeah, you did it
(07:13):
really well.
There was nothing that we feeltraumatized us.
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
That's quite unusual because usually it's, you know,
it's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
And I think that I think that must be so hard.
One thing that I say, and Idon't know if this would help
anyone going through this, butwe always said that we will we
went from being married tohaving a business, and the
business was the children.
And so we continuing after weseparated to relate to each
(07:43):
other and to treat each other ina way that would be in the best
interests of the children, justlike you would if you had a
business.
You would do everything thatwould be in that the business's
best interests, and that's howwe did it.
We tried to make sure that theywere not affected.
It'd be wonderful, wouldn't it,to know that any people breaking
(08:03):
up who have kids can do that.
But I know it's not alwayswithin our power, so I feel very
grateful.
SPEAKER_02 (08:09):
It was very uncivil in my it was very violent and
hence why I grew up with mygrandparents, mainly because of
the dysfunction between my ownum parents.
With there was alcohol involvedand there was um drugs.
That would have been so hard.
So yeah.
You're lucky you had yourgrandparents.
Exactly.
I I think like I would havecould have ended up in like
state care if it wasn't forthem.
(08:30):
That's how bad it was.
They were kind of like myrescuers.
I wanted to ask, how did yourealize that your motivation to
be successful in business, likemore recently, came from your
desire to prove your value toothers?
And why do you think that youhad to prove yourself through
your achievements?
Ooh, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
Look, I think I said that in the last one that I
definitely felt like I hadsomething to prove.
Um look, I think we all haveinsecurities.
We all have um these parts ofourselves that we potentially
are either um, you know, in somecases, I don't think this is in
(09:10):
my case, but embarrassed of.
But I do think there are thingsthat we don't like about either
where we've come from or um howwe are, and that we want to
change them.
And the way that we choose tochange them can be in a lot of
different ways.
And for me, you know, itinitially was a through having a
family and being the best parentthat I could be.
(09:34):
Um, but then when it came tobusiness, I I felt that I had to
overcome the fact that I feltlike nobody in my family had
been successful.
That I wanted to prove to peoplewas that, you know, I didn't do
particularly well at school anddidn't, you know, get great
(09:56):
qualifications and But you gotlike A's at high school, right?
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
For your writing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:00):
Well, I did, but then I was convinced by by my
parents that writing would endup with me living in a cardboard
box.
So I was told I had to doscience and chemistry and
physics.
Which I failed miserably becauseyou know, you can't you can't be
successful at something that youhate.
(10:20):
So yeah, so I didn't do thatwell.
And so I think that I reallywanted to prove that I had a
brain, that I was able to besuccessful, um, and it kind of
manifests itself in this umdesire to be successful in
business.
I wanted to have that respect.
(10:42):
I wanted to have theacknowledgement.
And and this is one thing thathas changed a lot about me since
Lauren's death is that, youknow, I kind of felt I wanted
the status of being a successfulperson.
I liked all of the accoutrementsof success, all of the ways, you
know, that that you had a nicecar and a nice home and fancy
(11:06):
clothes and designer labels andall of that.
Did you grow up with that?
No, that's the whole point.
I didn't came from an incrediblypoor family.
Even though your mum was like ina higher caste, she still didn't
come with like she's not.
Well no, because she left sheleft all of that behind and went
to London with pretty muchnothing.
And like she wasn't getting anylike money or anything.
No, yeah.
They pretty much disowned herfrom because she's understand.
(11:29):
So no, they I grew up with verylittle.
And, you know, with my fatherbeing an alcoholic, he lost his
job all the time.
And you know, it was a very itwas a simple childhood in terms
of um that you know, financialsuccess.
So I really what aspired tothat.
(11:49):
That's the word I will use.
I had aspirations of um pullingmyself out of what I felt was
that kind of um notimpoverished, that sounds a
little bit dramatic because wewere never impoverished, we
always had a place to live andpay put, you know, put food on
(12:10):
the table, but just that verybasic life.
And I wanted more.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
And I thought that I could get that through business
success and work very hard.
And you know, the thing was Iwas successful, but none of it
actually made me any happier.
None of it ever made me feelfully enough.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
How would you describe it made you feel when
you became like quite successfulin your businesses?
How would you feel the feeling?
Like, how would you describe thefeeling?
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Well, it was it was great and it was fun, and I I
had um, you know, I had niceclothes, and I think people
would look at me and see someonewho was successful, which is I
think what I wanted, or at leastthat's what I thought I wanted.
Actually, um, you know, whenwhen everything gets taken away
from you in my situation, Istarted to really understand
(13:02):
what was truly important inlife, and it wasn't all of that.
It was like I'd worked so hardmy whole life chasing all this
stuff, all this um materialthings, I guess, I was very
materialistic.
And um when it but when it allwent and I had nothing, and
(13:27):
literally every single pillar ofmy life fell over.
You I don't know, I justrealized actually none of that
means anything.
It's all of those other things,those intangible things, those
are the things that truly meanhappiness.
It's beautiful, yeah.
And yeah, it's it doesn't mean Ididn't have fun starting
(13:51):
business.
I you know, I thought I lovedit, and I loved the work that I
did, the people that I met.
Um when we you know, there'snothing more fun and and
exciting than having an eventthat's got, you know, a thousand
people, um, setting up the room,um, making sure everything runs
smoothly, seeing everybody happyand having a good time, and the
(14:13):
client being, you know, reallyhappy at the end of it.
Everything that I did, includingthe restaurant, was really
about, for me, about creating umthings that made people happy,
other people happy.
I loved I love to do that.
I love to be the hostess, youknow, the kind of person that um
(14:33):
made things happen, got thingsdone.
But underneath it all was thisdesire, need, actually, I would
say, to have other people, youknow, respect and admire me.
And I think that just came fromhaving nothing when I was young.
Came from uh being Yeah, justfeeling like I was not enough.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
I know I'm not beating myself up about it, but
I did.
I used to when I was a lotyounger.
SPEAKER_02 (15:03):
I wanted to ask a little bit about your parents.
When they left Sri Lanka, didthey kind of carry like you said
they kind of blended into theculture in London.
SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
So it and Well, they sort of took it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:14):
Yeah.
Did you learn much about yourlike standard family?
But did your mum hawk her backor they've kind of disowned me?
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
It's quite complicated, my childhood and my
memories of my childhood, and Idon't have an awful lot of
memories of my childhood andwhat that means.
But I do remember just notreally knowing much about their
backgrounds.
There were snippets, you know,and you know how when you get
together with your family andmaybe extended family or friends
(15:41):
at a dinner table and peoplewill tell stories.
Um I remember stor the same, youknow, it's always the same
stories, isn't it?
We always get roll our eyesbecause our parents or
grandparents tell the samestories every time.
Um so there are certain storiesthat I remember.
I remember them talking about umwhen they came to England and
(16:02):
they drove a Model T Ford,apparently, um from London to to
Sri Lanka and Colombo, or maybeit was the other way around.
I can't actually even remember.
Um, but that they told all thesethese crazy stories about trips
they'd had and places they'dbeen to and and um memories, and
(16:26):
I don't know which ones are arereal, which ones are kind of
made up, because um there wereso many gaps in the story, and
I'm currently um puttingtogether a memoir of sorts, and
there's parts of this story Iyou know, there's so many holes
(16:46):
I don't n can't fill at themoment in terms of there's
nobody who can yeah.
I mean my mum is 96 and hasdementia and really does not
remember anything.
Which is sad.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
Is she back in London?
No, she's here.
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
She's here in a in a retirement home.
And um and she doesn't remember.
I can't really ask her aboutanything.
Um and if I do ask her, she'llget very confused as people with
dementia often do.
Um so we just don't.
I, you know, my father died manyyears ago, so he's not around.
I don't really have any otherfamily to ask.
(17:25):
But it's it's intriguing to meto try and piece together the
puzzle, you know, the jigsaw oftheir lives, my lives.
Um because it it just doesn't,some of it doesn't make sense.
Um and I don't want to repeatmyself one last time, but you
know, um I was actually tellingmy partner the other day that um
(17:48):
that my grandmother, my mother'smother, which was normal of the
day in Sri Lanka.
We've got to remember, please,that there this is in the day
and uh back in the day, manyyears ago in Sri Lanka.
She was 13 when she got married,and her husband, my grandfather,
was in his 30s.
Yeah.
You know, I mean scandalousstuff.
(18:08):
It's really just all wrong onmany levels, but that was just
how things were back then.
But then that makes whathappened with my mum really
quite strange, because my mumwas not married until she was
30, 3-0.
And I'm sure that back in thosedays that would have been quite
late.
Late.
(18:29):
So and I don't know why.
I don't know why that was thecase.
And I'm not saying I w wantedher to get married at 14 or
something, but you know, forgirls to be married before the
age of 20 was not uncommon whenyou read I've read some
historical things about SriLanka at that time.
Yeah, that would have beennormal normal.
So for her to be an unmarriedwoman at 30 is quite strange.
(18:52):
So yeah, there's all thesequestions.
Um I don't know if that'sanswered your question, but I I
don't know an awful lot, I wouldsay, is the best way to put it.
Yeah.
But I'm interested.
SPEAKER_02 (19:03):
When you lost your dad at 17, uh do you remember
grieving or like how if itaffected you in any way?
SPEAKER_01 (19:09):
Like well, that is a really good question.
It is possible because Iremember taking my exams and
things not long afterwards.
But at the time, my my memorynow of that time was that I did
not grieve that much, that I wasmore angry than grieving, that I
was hurt that he chose alcoholand drinking over staying with
(19:35):
me and my family.
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
You know, and because I was young, I meant
really me, not my family.
It's only a 17-year-old girl,that's it's all about you.
Um and I did.
I was angry with him for leavingme.
I was angry with him for for notcaring enough to stop drinking
and stay.
I mean, I was really naive.
Um, and I remember not feelinganything but those kind of
(20:04):
negative emotions and almost notbeing able to cope with my
mother's grief because I was sotorn up and hurt and angry in my
own kind of um oh, just thiswhirlwind wind of negative
emotion, anger and all, youknow, which I understand is also
(20:25):
part of grief.
And that went on for like twoyears.
I was so, so angry with him.
And then did I talk about thiswhen I had to go back and pack
up my mum's house?
No, no, no.
So I she moved house two yearsafter he died, and her and she
said, Can you come and help mewith his stuff?
(20:46):
And so I remember walking intotheir bedroom and opening the
wardrobe, and his he had notmoved or touched anything of
his.
And he had all his suits andshirts and ties, because that's
what everybody wore back then,you know, to work.
Um and as soon as I opened thethe wardrobe, the smell of him
(21:10):
just came out, and it was this msmell of tobacco and whiskey and
just whatever aftershave hewore, I don't know.
And smells are incrediblypowerful.
Like they really are.
And I smell my grandma's oldcoat, and it still smells like
her after five years.
SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
Yeah.
I know.
And that smell, you know, anysmell, a particular perfume or
aftershave or something, itreally apparently it it
activates all of the memory partof your brain.
And so that's what happened.
I opened up this thing, and thenI remember getting I had bin
bags, and I was trying to stuffall these clothes into these bin
(21:50):
bags, and just crying and cryingand crying, and ending up lying
on the floor, crying, you know,dramatically covered in his
clothes and ties and all of thatsort of thing, and having this
humongous moment of true griefand sadness and just yeah.
(22:11):
And um, I like to think when Ilook back, and I have no idea if
this is true because ourmemories are so warped when
you're, you know, when you'reyoung and how they change, like
it's like a Chinese whispers ofof memories.
But in my mind, I think that Imade my peace with him on the
floor in that bedroom,surrounded by his clothes.
(22:35):
And when I left I felt muchlighter and I felt that he was
with me in some way and that hewould understand how angry I was
and why it took me so long tocry.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
You know, and we you know, we do, we create these
thoughts that make us feelbetter.
And that was m the thought thatmade me feel better, whether I
it was true or not true.
I but tr chose to believe thathe was at peace and that he was
at peace with me and I was atpeace with him.
SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
And do you find this like I don't know if you did
this, but like after my grandmabecause we were so close, me and
my grandma, like after shepassed, I s I used to say like,
oh I miss you, grandma.
And I even say it now sometimes,and even though they're not
there, like it's not like you'respeaking to them, but it like it
kind of feels like in you like,Why am I doing this?
SPEAKER_01 (23:28):
It's a bit weird, but then you know, like you
can't did you do that, like whenyou're dad Well I probably
didn't with my dad.
Um I don't think that I wasaware enough, and I don't think
we were close enough for me tohave that kind of reaction.
But I do it with Lauren.
(23:49):
Yeah.
And I don't think there'sanything weird or strange about
it because I truly believe theirenergy is all around us.
And I think that we can tap intosometimes the energy of them
being here and and I think theylive on inside of us.
(24:11):
So if you you know, if you missyour grandmother, if something
happens and you miss yourgrandmother, I don't think that
talking to her because maybeyou're talking to her, to the
part of her that exists withinyou.
She'll be there within you.
And maybe when you're speakingto her, that's who you spoke
speaking to, not just somerandom ghost or we know that's
(24:32):
what I feel like.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
I'm like, I don't want to speak to any ghosts.
unknown (24:35):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
But you know, maybe her energy is out there
somewhere, and um that's what Ithink, you know.
And um, yeah, some people mightthink that that's strange, some
people might think that's verynormal, and some people I know
will think much more than that.
They will genuinely feel likethey can feel the presence of
the people that they've lost.
(24:56):
And I think whatever we feel,whatever makes us feel better,
whatever allows us to cope,whatever allows us to kind of
move forward, is uh it's allgood.
SPEAKER_02 (25:11):
I was just gonna ask about your grieving journey
after your loss of Lauren in2023.
Um, what has the process taughtyou?
I know it's there's a lot, butwell that's yeah, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Um and it's still an ongoing process.
Let me please first.
SPEAKER_02 (25:31):
And I'm like, when am I gonna get over this?
SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
Well, you won't as I You know, it's like that's like
say, well, well, will I stallstop loving someone?
You can't stop loving them.
SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
It is a massive part of it.
If you didn't like love them,you wouldn't be grieving.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
So absolutely, absolutely, and yeah, I think
that um I've done a lot ofreflecting about this, um,
because my grief journey hasbeen uh complicated, especially
at the beginning.
And I said this last time, youknow, I lost a lot of things all
(26:06):
at the same time, includingLauren.
And so some of the grief that Imaybe would normally have
reserved for her was spread out.
If there is such a thing, if ifyou know, if we have an infinite
amount of grief or whether it'sa specified amount, I don't
know.
But I had grief about so manythings all at the same time, and
(26:27):
it was extremely confusing andconfronting.
But the the grief for Lauren hasit it changes and it morphs and
it sometimes it's huge and seemsincredibly overwhelming, and
then sometimes it's just it'sit's small and fragile and um
(26:50):
and sometimes I f personallyfeel like it's shrouded in guilt
where I feel I'm not grievingenough for her, or you know,
maybe I should have cried.
It's been a few days or weeks orwhatever since I last cried, and
there's that because there is noright or wrong, and I have to
keep reminding of myself mmyself of that on a daily basis
(27:13):
almost.
But mine was made a little bitmore complicated.
But the fact that I have twochildren and who are both
grieving for their sister indifferent ways, um, one of them
obviously her twin sister.
And being a mother, that's whatyou have to do.
You cannot p dump your grief andfeelings onto them.
(27:33):
I found creative writing really,really helpful for getting
through my grief because yes, Italk to friends.
I'm very so blessed withincredible friends who heard all
of my um grief as it unfolded inall the different ways that it
um kind of manifested.
(27:55):
But to be quite honest, um therewas so much more, and I did not
know how to to processeverything that I felt um and
also all the anger that I felt,and not just about what had
happened to Lauren, but also theanger towards my ex-partner who
(28:17):
had basically let me down in theworst way possible, um, and
hadn't been there for me when Iwas, you know, grieving and at
my at my most vulnerable.
Even to the driver that that hitLauren, there was just all this
anger and kind of pain.
And I actually found thatwriting a story made it easier
(28:42):
because somehow it kind of setremoved it.
Like I was still writing aboutme, but I was writing it in the
in the name of this characterwho was called Daisy.
And Daisy she really was a weewhiny little victim because
that's what my internal griefand my internal story was.
(29:03):
But yeah, she allowed me tocommunicate and express and
exhibit just all of thosefeelings I put into her and the
novel and the characters, and Iwrote 80,000 words in about
eight months, and it's not thatgreat at all, but it was so
(29:26):
therapeutic.
Or whether I'm writing a piecethat is based on my emotions, I
actually bought along a piece toread.
SPEAKER_02 (29:34):
Wanna read it?
Yes, it is a bit sad.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
The reason I wrote this was because one of the
things I found was I loved goingto the beach, and this is
something that I have writtenbased on that love of the beach
and why I I love to and this isbasically part of my memoir that
I'm writing.
SPEAKER_00 (29:58):
So I stand
SPEAKER_01 (30:00):
Stand on the beach and contemplate the last two
years of my life.
Waves are all around me, insideand out.
Heaving, rolling globs of griefand warm gratitude combine with
the sandy, salty waves hittingthe beach and the trickle of
tears on my face.
Today the world is peaceful, noother footsteps in the sand,
(30:22):
nothing but the symphony of thesea, but I do not feel alone.
The clashing cymbals of thewatery mass hitting the beach,
and the mournful resonance ofthe sea calling back its waters
thrums like violent vibrationsof a tightly wound bass drum.
The sun tries to shine, but theclouds are low and full, and the
(30:43):
air is thick with warm moistureand muted yellowness.
The beach always does this tome, draws me out of my feelings
and emotions, heightens them andmakes me face them head on.
I breathe in deeply.
This is the only place I canreally do this.
It is like my body doesn't feelsafe to take a deep breath,
(31:04):
except at the beach.
It confounds me as I can't swim,and the enormity and endlessness
of the sea scares me.
And yet here it is.
I feel safe to breathe.
My breath seems to synchronizewith the rhythm of the ocean in
and out, pain and release.
Here my grief can run free, findits wild edge, scream silently
(31:29):
across the miles of balloons,the disappearing sounds of my
sadness floating up and away anddrifting down, down as far as it
is possible to go.
This is where I feel closest toLauren.
I feel her here, or at least I'dimagine I do, her bright energy
and unapologetic clarity.
(31:50):
When I speak to her at thebeach, I can feel her replies
and the salty air all around me.
Am I trying to find myself orlose myself?
Or maybe just find a place tobe.
Ever since the accident I havefelt like I am in a washing
machine.
Sometimes I am enjoy therhythmically soft massage of
(32:10):
warm water.
It feels like watery happiness,warming gratitude, and peaks of
sunlight through filmy voilcurtains.
But at times my tears are justunder the surface, threatening
to overflow, and the water keepsrushing in and I am powerless to
stop it.
The sudden violence of the rinseand spin cycles shake me from my
(32:32):
imagined peace, suffocating,drowning, panic and fear.
There is no breath here, norespite.
It feels like it will never everend, and I don't think I can
continue.
I feel my heart wrenching andfighting, my lungs exerting
themselves trying to push thestinging feelings from within.
(32:53):
But slowly, gently, the griefsettles and subsides, the warmth
and calm return, and I can onceagain feel gratitude and
happiness and love.
Now after the inevitabinevitability of time has had
its way with me, my grief,having entered my life so
suddenly like an over eageracquaintance, is slowly becoming
(33:17):
an old friend.
The friend you don't speak tofor ages, but when you do, it is
like she has always been there,because she has.
My old friend grief is never faraway, even when I am filled with
joy or gratitude, I can stillfeel her, her arms wrapped
around me or holding my hand,waiting for that song or that
(33:37):
smell, or that girl that lookslike Lauren.
I realize now that I have neverreally truly felt grief in my
life or even really consideredit, never thought about it in a
way that really matters.
Maybe in an intellectual way orin an empathetic way when faced
with someone else's grief.
I had viewed it as somethingthat affected others.
(34:00):
We all know at an intellectuallevel that we will die one day,
but we don't feel it.
And I had been blindly goingthrough life not thinking, not
realizing that real loss waspossible for me, not ever
thinking it would ever frogmarch into my life and destroy
everything that I thought wastrue.
Not until the day my daughterdied, because to feel grief you
(34:22):
need to have lost, and losing achild is amongst the worst thing
a parent can lose.
And now I believe that my griefis just Lauren reaching out to
me, speaking to me, reminding methat she loves me and knows that
she is love, and her language isnow a rainbow, a blue sky, a
hummingbird, or a butterfly.
(34:45):
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
I almost cried.
Yeah.
So that's what I have been doingto help myself to get through my
my grief.
SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
Been writing a novel and a memoir, so um And it's
often described as waves, eh?
Grief.
Like Yeah.
Did you feel like that with yourgrandmother?
I still feel like that.
Like it it's so weird.
You wake up, wait, they're gone.
Like it just felt like yesterdayshe was here and it w it's been
five plus years.
I'm like, it's just it was hardbecause I was like, I wished I
(35:18):
had all this guilt.
I was like, I should have, youknow, been there, cared for her.
I was like in India with mydaughter's dad, and that was a
mess, but like and I should justcame back before COVID, and then
COVID happened, and then she waslike, you know, in care.
Oh, that would have been hard.
And I was like, she didn't wantme to see her, so like skinny
and suffering, and I was like,oh my gosh, I'm in a nightmare.
That's what it feels like.
SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
Okay, like that's and he can't wake up and yeah,
yeah.
I said I did not believe that itwould happen to me.
I mean, I really didn't, and Icannot believe my naivety in
terms of the knowledge that Ihave now.
I just didn't go there in mymind to think that something
like this would ever happen.
(35:59):
That when it first happens, allthere is is the grief.
But little by little you rebuildyour life around it and the you
know, and you find happiness andyou find joy, and um, you know,
I've met someone since the lasttime I was on.
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
Yes.
We don't mismatch people.
SPEAKER_01 (36:20):
Um, yes, I have met someone, and um and he's really
yeah, he's been it's beenlife-changing, and he's been um
someone who has accepted that heknew who he basically knew from
pretty much the beginning thatwhat I had been through, and um
(36:41):
he accepts me with the waves aswell as the happiness within me.
I don't always feel I have to beon with him.
I can feel if I feel sad, I canfeel sad, and he just totally
holds space for me.
I actually never knew what thatmeant.
Like you hear people to sayingabout someone, oh, they, you
know, you've got to hold spacefor someone.
(37:02):
And I was just like, what doesthat mean?
But I know what that means nowbecause he does that.
He allows me, he creates a spacethat's safe for me to have the
feelings that I have, um, and tobe the most real version of me
that I can.
Um and yeah, and we have similarvalues in terms of our outlook
(37:27):
on life and family, and yeah,and he's fun and his he's
brought back um an element ofjoy into my life, which um is
unexpected.
Um yeah, but it's been really,really good.
And um, and of course I have mylovely granddaughter who is a
joy every single day, you know.
(37:48):
But um, she's cute.
Yeah, she is amazing.
She is amazing.
And that's the thing I thinkthat you know, all that time I
said to you that I was chasing,trying to show uh other people
that I was worthy or that I wasum successful or all of that
kind of stuff.
It seems so pointless nowbecause all I want is to have
(38:11):
people around that love me andthat I love, and to do things
that are meaningful um with goodpeople, you know, to have joy in
my life.
Those things are the things thatare so important now.
And anything that I do in termsof work, the writing that I do,
the time I spend with mygranddaughter and my daughter
(38:32):
and my son when he's in town,and my partner, and getting to
know, you know, his family andall of those things and meeting
new friends, all of thosethings, those connections, those
points um where you learnsomething about somebody else,
they have just become so muchmore important to me than all
(38:54):
the things I used to think wereimportant.
And yeah, it's just you don'tthink that at the age of 58
you're going to change sodramatically.
But I have.
And and I'm actually quitegrateful for it.
SPEAKER_02 (39:10):
So do those things still matter to you, like
climbing the ladder of success,or do they um like they're still
important, but they're not likethey've taken a kind of bet?
I think of course I want to besuccessful.
SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
I but my I guess my definition of success is
slightly different.
Um I want to do things that havemeaning.
And some of the the I've donesome charity work with um last
year I helped on the um theChristchurch Country Fate, which
was a community event, and thatwas so great to be a part of
(39:44):
something like that and to helpum, you know, to make that
happen and and use the skillsthat I've got to help make that
happen.
That was wonderful.
And then this year I'm looking,I'm basically um dealing with a
uh um a charity called theIndian New Zealand Sporting
Charitable Trust.
(40:05):
And we're the plan is that theywant to bring over a group of um
kind of um underprivileged kidsfrom India and also take some
children from Christchurch anddo an exchange, um, which is
based around rugby.
It's it's being led by NormMaxwell, the former All Black,
and um the CEO of a tour companycalled Total Sports Tours, um, a
(40:30):
guy called Phil Robson.
And these guys are just sopassionate about using sport for
good, for um, you know, helpingkids to be the best that they
can be, to experience joy, totruly um see the world and to
see the bigger picture and to becompassionate about other
(40:52):
cultures and um, you know, totry and overcome this that
there's a underbelly,unfortunately, of racism.
And we're, you know, by tryingto help these kids to actually
teach them and educate them thatthere are different ways of
being and different cultures inthe world.
Um, and that's something thatI'm involved in and really
(41:14):
enjoying.
SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
I wanted to ask, how did you meet your partner and do
you still attract the same guysthat you once did before, you
know, you've been through thiswhole Um, I would say that um I
don't I'm not really sure that Iwas attracting anybody after all
this happened.
SPEAKER_01 (41:34):
Um I don't think that I was particularly um I
thought I was open to it, but Ireally wasn't.
Um and yeah, the and and I alsohave become and I don't know if
this is I seriously don't knowif this is because of my age or
because of menopause or becauseof of what I went through my
(41:55):
trauma, but I have no patience.
Like I have no tolerance foridiots.
I really don't.
And so yeah, it was like if Iwas on a dating app or
something, I just not really Ijust had no patience.
It was just, yeah, it waspainful.
So I had come off any datingapps or anything like that.
(42:15):
My partner was introduced to methrough a friend.
SPEAKER_02 (42:19):
That's cool.
SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
You know, and we all say, Oh my gosh, I wish I could
meet someone the old-fashionedway.
SPEAKER_02 (42:23):
I loved it.
Yes, and that's what happens.
SPEAKER_01 (42:26):
Yeah.
So this friend of mine said, Doyou want to meet this friend of
mine?
And I was just like, Oh god, itcan't be any worse than the
people I'm meeting on theseapps.
So yeah, why not?
And and it was not a love atfirst sight thing.
It was not um interesting.
In fact, there was about threeor four weeks between the first
date and the second date.
But I think um, you know, I knewhe was a good guy.
(42:50):
That much was incredibly clear.
And on the second date, Iactually told him about Lauren.
And he told me about some of histhings that had happened that
were important to him in hislife.
And we just connected.
I won't say we connected overour traumas.
I think it was quite theopposite.
I think what we'd connected overwas that we had both had crap
(43:13):
happen to us, but we wereresilient and we were strong and
we had the same outlook on life.
We were both wanting to grow aspeople, we both wanted to do
something that was meaningful,and I think that's what it you
know came out.
SPEAKER_02 (43:30):
Did you sync this time?
SPEAKER_01 (43:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And on the second date, therewas a total change in chemistry,
total change in connection.
Um, and yeah, we've kind of beentogether ever since.
So it's been but everything hasfelt very natural and um
beautiful.
And um I I hope, you know, myfriends will say to me, it gives
me hope that I might meetsomeone the normal way.
(43:53):
And yes, there are there arepeople out there.
Yeah, you just have a little bitof luck and a bit of hope and
being open, I suppose.
SPEAKER_02 (44:02):
I'm not against like dating apps and all that, but
like in a way I am becausethey're just so frustrating.
I hate them.
I just I like the old-fashionedway.
Like it's so much more like youfeel like you can be yourself
and they know who you arestraight away.
SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
Like you just kind of click if you like each other
and as friends or whatever, andthen you just kind of know from
the I think the issue with thedating apps is, you know, and I
used to write a dating column ina magazine at one point, but I
think the dating apps createsthis there's too much choice.
Yeah, I think and people justdon't want to commit.
(44:37):
It doesn't encourage commitmentbecause then you might go, well,
I don't want to commit to thatone because there's might be
another one that would be betterfor me.
Instead of going, I actuallyreally like this guy and I'd
like to commit to that to seewhere this could go, you know.
Um or or the other way around,you know, a guy saying, Yes, I
(45:00):
there's something amazing aboutthat woman and I'd like to get
to know her better.
It's almost like, well, yeah, Icould get to know her better,
but what happens if there'sactually someone better around
the corner or on the next swipe?
And that so I don't think that'svery healthy.
But so I am very glad to not bein that situation anymore.
But I have lots of friends thatare when I look at 2023, I would
(45:24):
say that it started with theclosure of my restaurant.
And, you know, that restaurant,Maison de Crepe, had been like
my baby.
I'd had it for eight years.
It, you know, so many wonderfulpeople came into my life,
whether they were staff or themany customers that we had.
SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
Yeah, they were lovely staff.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
Yeah, the staff were fantastic, and the regulars were
amazing, and we had beautiful,um, you know, just amazing
celebrations of joy and um, youknow, birthdays and
anniversaries and um peoplegraduating and just lots of
wonderful things that happenedwithin that that business.
(46:02):
And, you know, we won awards andwe just had had so much joy that
came out of it.
But it was also incredibly hardwork.
And when COVID came along, um,you know, it's just one of those
things where you just go,something that you have no
control over can come in andsteamroller over your life.
(46:25):
And unfortunately, I just didnot have the funds to get
through that.
You needed deep pockets to getthrough COVID.
Um, and I take my hat off to allof the businesses that survived
and have grown and done well,but I know that they would have
had to reinvest into theirbusinesses in order to do that,
and I just couldn't.
And actually, when I closed thedoors on the business, um, you
(46:49):
know, I basically had losteverything.
So it's almost like the businesswas the first notch of grief in
that year because I was so sadabout it closing.
Um, even though I found jobs orwell, the jobs were found for
all of the staff, not one ofthem didn't get a job.
(47:11):
Um it was so hard saying goodbyeto that family um and to the to
the customers that had been soloyal.
And facing that failure, youknow, for me, facing that
failure of that business notsurviving um was very difficult.
(47:33):
And then two months later,Lauren had ha the accident.
And so I was already at quite aweak point.
I was already grieving.
Um, I think I also knew that myrelationship was on its last
legs at that stage.
And so um, yeah, the the yearitself was um started with the
(47:59):
restaurant and just ended witheverything kind of disappearing
out from under me.
SPEAKER_02 (48:05):
And um did it affect your confidence, like your your
identity, your your worth.
SPEAKER_01 (48:13):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I mean confidence for sure, andI'm still in the process of
rebuilding that.
Um and you know, I I think yes,identity definitely worth.
I don't think I felt worth anyless, but I've always felt like
I know my own worth.
(48:34):
I think that's something thatI've been quite strong on.
But definitely my identity haschanged.
I don't think I'm well, I knowI'm not the same person that I
was before all of this happened.
Um, I am a completely different.
SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
Did I meet you before then, right?
Yeah.
I was speaking to you in thelounge there with your dog.
SPEAKER_01 (48:52):
Yes, and my dog Alfie, which so I had to put him
down like three months afterLauren died.
You know, I mean, oh my god.
I mean, I just look back and go,oh, what didn't happen?
What didn't happen, you know, inthat year.
Um I in fact, I've been asked tospeak um at the Inspire Me Um
(49:12):
Women's Conference, which takesplace on the 2nd of October, um,
and I'm been asked to speakabout resilience and what
happened to me in that year andhow how on earth I got through
it.
And I just, yeah, I still lookback with surprise that I
actually did.
I will say that I believe thatall of those things that went,
(49:36):
all of those things thathappened to me, all of the um
the ways that the rug was pulledout from under me apart from
Lauren, all of those thingsneeded to go.
I look back and I can see andnot talking about Lauren, those
(49:57):
things that I felt had beentaken away from me, though I
think I was released from all ofthose things that weren't
serving me, but that I just didnot have the foresight to see or
the guts to change.
It was all changed for me.
I don't think you can change asmuch as I've changed in the last
couple of years.
(50:17):
And but the interesting uh partof um my journey in change is
the fact that I can't reallywatch or l read really ugly
things.
Like I don't like true crime.
It kind of triggers me actuallyabout everything that happened.
So 2023, 2024, when I wrote umthe novel that will never see
(50:39):
the light of day, um, which Icall my therapy, um, I l it was
my reason to get up.
I literally got up and got readyand put, you know, had my
breakfast and then I would sitdown at the computer every day
like I was some and some days Iwould write for seven or eight
hours.
Thank you so much for having me.
Oh, thanks.
SPEAKER_02 (51:20):
It's great hearing from my listeners.
Reach out with questions andcomments through Insta or
Facebook.
Just search for VoicesUnhindered.
I'm interested to know whatother topics and voices you'd
like me to bring on the show.
Subscribe to Voices Unhinderedon Spotify or Apple Podcasts to
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