Decoding Rapture Hype and Rewriting Autism Myths for Real-World Hope

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:00):
Welcome to Wake Up with Dr.
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(00:21):
informative and revealing.
And now here's your host, Dr.
Douglas James Cottrell.

Douglas (00:30):
I'm your host, Dr.
Douglas James Cottrell, andjoining me as always is my good
friend and co-producer JackBialik.
And tonight we have specialco-host Larry Cruz.
Welcome to the show, Larry.
It's great to have you heretonight.
I trust you've had a greatweek.

Larry (00:48):
Yes, I have, and I hope you have too.

Douglas (00:50):
So far, so good, but it seems to be one of those magic
Mondays where everything is justgoing one step forward and two
steps back.
So we'll start off withsomething that's really hot.
It's in the news, it's onTikTok, it's all over the world.
It's been broadcast by some uhsome serious people about uh

(01:12):
that amazing thing that's calledthe rapture.
Uh a South African pastor,Joshua Malekla, has publicly
claimed that he received avision from Jesus the Christ
indicating that the rapture willoccur on this, September the
23rd or the 24th, 2025.

(01:35):
That's just a few days ago.
However, these dates coincidewith Rosh Hashanah, uh feast of
trumpets, uh, in the Jewishcalendar.
No, I'm not too familiar withthat, but uh for somebody to
come out and speak worldwide,Larry, that they have uh uh a
divine communication about therapture.

(01:56):
Wow, that's pretty, you know,brazen.
Uh and and the guy, you know,you could say he's either crazy
or that Jesus spoke to him.
The prophet he's gone on socialmedia all over TikTok under the
hashtag hashtag rapture talk.
Uh, I'm just gonna give that ashout out.
Now remember, I'm notassociated with these fellows,

(02:16):
so I don't really know orendorse them.
Okay, so if you're gonna checkit out, please do, because this
is a very important time, Larry.
I mean, you know, the raptureis something that uh people have
been uh told that is coming.
It's it started off in the1800s, and uh, you know, our
theologians and theprofessionals, uh, many

(02:38):
Christian leaders uh cautionagainst date setting.
I do too, but you know, I'mstill here.
Okay, so you're still there,and everybody listening to our
voice were still here.
You know, my my friends, therapture in a fundamental way was
supposed to be the time whenall the good souls, the

(03:02):
believers, especially theChristian believers, would be
called to heaven and they wouldrise up, all the souls that were
alive and the good Christiansthat were deceased, and they
would go up into the clouds tobe with Christ in heavens above.
Well, I'm not sure if that'sexactly uh what happened or is

(03:26):
supposed to happen, but we'regonna find out.
You can look for biblical uhscripture, for example, Matthew
chapter 24, verse 36 warns thatno one knows the day or the
hour, and that'll give adifferent slant on what the
rapture is all about.
Some commentary is alsore-examining the traditional

(03:46):
rapture paradigm.
Questions are being raisedabout how much of what is
popular belief comes from the18th, 19th, and 20th century
theology.
Popular Christian fiction orculture interprets rather than
uh rather than it's aninterpretation rather rather
than an early Christianteaching.

(04:07):
Before that time, before the1800s, there wasn't much about
this at all.
So, reflecting the human costof such beliefs, uh some former
believers describe thepsychological and emotional
damage of living under constantprophecy pressure.
Now, there's a term I haven'theard before.
Maybe the our producer Jackwill write that one down.

(04:29):
Under constant prophecypressure.
I want you, I'm a minister.
I've been in this spiritualbusiness all my life,
apparently, as we all are, butfor the last 50 years, I have
gone uh on sojourns, I've madepilgrimages, I've gone and
sought everywhere to find whatis the truth, what is the

(04:50):
orthodox believing of the onetrue God.
And so I've come to well, I'vecome to many roads, I've come to
many temples and churches, I'vemet many spiritual beings and
people who are uh earnest, Imean sincere.
After all, this life in theworld is temporary, and the one

(05:12):
next in the great uhpost-existence, which by the way
is the same as thepre-existence, you know, we came
from heaven and now we're goingback to the same place.
It's got to be something thateverybody's looking forward to
in understanding all of theirlife, but there's a lot of
pressure, and people are afraid,and we don't want them to be
afraid.

(05:32):
It's more like, you know,telling a story, and the story
essence becomes the meaning, andthe meaning becomes the law,
and then people are afraid tobreak the law, but they don't
understand the story.
So as we look at this in thispoint of time, it's a matter of
saying the rapture, the fervorover it, uh is something that,

(05:54):
you know, you gotta take thiswith a little common sense.
You know, don't neglect payingyour bills, don't sell your
house, don't get down on yourhands and knees every moment and
pray and pray and pray thatyou're going to be one of the
people ascending to the heavensabove.
All in good time.
All in good time.
I think this whole idea of therapture refers to the

(06:17):
enlightenment, it refers to theChrist consciousness, it refers
to the people being uplifted andcoming to a point of spiritual
understanding and illumination.
And in that sense, that's areal thing.
And as such, this time, thetime we're in now, a time of
chaos, is a time that we shouldall pay attention.

(06:39):
Deceit and chaos and corruptionare everywhere.
But isn't that a time whenlight and illumination would
come into the world?
So as we move through the show,I'd like you to consider uh as
we get to the question andanswer part in the next segment

(07:00):
or in the last segment of theshow that you consider, you
know, uh chiming in and lettingus know what you think of this
time that is now becomingpopular uh as the rapture, you
know, so we can have you uh, youknow, chime in with what you
believe.
We have a special guest tonightwho likewise has been exploring

(07:22):
myths all of his life.
He's uh a well-known uh author.
He is someone who has uh been afriend of mine for years.
He's uh Harvard trained, he's aMaster of Education degree from
Harvard University.
He's devoted his entire life tounderstanding and serving
people in a very special way onthe autism spectrum.

(07:45):
I want to welcome to tonightJonathan Alderson, as I said, a
scholar, a practitioner, andchange maker in the world of
autism and human potential.
Jonathan is also the author ofChanging the Myths.
Sorry, I have a copy here, it'sexploring the myths of autism,
sometimes called Challenging theMyths of Autism, which I have

(08:07):
here in my script.
Jonathan will correct me as towhich one is correct.
And I want you to know this isa fantastic book.
If you have someone in yourfamily or you have a friend or
neighbor that has somedifficulties with autism, this
is the man to see.
He is the or one of the expertsin understanding autism and

(08:30):
providing ways and means to dealwith it practically throughout
the life of the child inparticular.
And I want to say he's he's hasdone this from an amazing
perspective.
He's being hoisted to the topof his profession.
He has uh sparked internationaland national discussions of
exploring the misconceptionsabout autism, and he is inviting

(08:54):
us to uh look in a deeper,empathetic way for all the
possibilities.
Tonight we're going to exploresome of the dimensions of autism
through Jonathan's knowledgeand how society, faith, the
soul, and science interact inthe life of those on the
spectrum.
We'll ask not just what autismis, but who is the person is?

(09:17):
Who is that mysterious personbehind the mask of autism?
Why myths persists and how wecan learn to see through this
hidden mist.
Welcome to the show, Jonathan.
I saw you there on the side ofour just a moment ago.
Uh let us uh let the uh wizardof ours have uh Jonathan pop up

(09:40):
here and we'll start ourinterview.
Okay, this is called TheStretch.
I'll I'll remark again abouthow the uh exploring the myths
of autism is an amazing book.
Uh we're having a littletechnical difficulties, I

(10:02):
assume, and so we'll get to thatin a moment.
Okay, so we'll we'll wait forour uh for our production uh
problem to be solved here andfor Jonathan to get back on.
I saw him here just a momentago.
Here he is.
No, yes, maybe possibly.

Larry (10:17):
Okay, Larry, do you know anybody in your family who has
autism?
No, I do not.
But I do have friends that havechildren.
How are they dealing with it?
Uh well um it's a lot ofpatience.

(10:38):
But they're at times theystruggle, and at times it's
their understanding.
It's it's a variety of emotionsfor this family I'm thinking
about particularly.

Douglas (10:52):
Well, any any person, any family that has a specially
challenged uh uh child, umeverybody should pay attention
uh to the parents whose lifebecomes instantly converted from
a normal lifetime to nowbecoming an advocate for the

(11:15):
child.
You see, when you have ahandicapped child, I'm not
supposed to say that, supposedto say challenge child, but
that's much of my generation, uheverybody is against you.
What?
Did he really say that?
Yes.
It seems like the world isagainst you.
You have to be an advocate toget care for your special child.

(11:36):
You have to uh deal with thecaregivers, some are nice and
some are not.
You have to deal with thecaregiver managers who are
always got one eye on thedollars if you have insurance or
government assistance, and theother eye on uh time uh of their
employees that are servicingthe families in need.

(12:00):
So as it comes to a point of,oh my gosh, I'm in a whole world
I never expected, you become anadvocate because sometimes
people don't want to give youthe services because they just
don't want to spend the money.
And you meet people who areunbelievably, you know, callous.
On the other hand, you meetpeople who are amazing, they're

(12:25):
angels in disguise, they arethere to help and do the best
they possibly can for yourchild.
And these people are the onesthat deserve a lot of credit.
So having uh someone in in yourfamily or someone in your
neighborhood when you see aspecial child, go out of your
way, not just to help the child,but help the family.

(12:48):
And one thing you should never,ever, ever say, my friends, is
walk up to them, perfectstrangers though you might be,
and say, What happened?
Because you see, the parentsget asked that a gazillion
times, and it hurts every singletime.
And why should they go throughthis story to tell you a perfect

(13:09):
stranger on the street?
So be polite and participate.
Help these parents, help thesechildren by participating with
practical ways and means.
Giving money is one way, ofcourse, but maybe the parents
need somebody to babysit thechild, or maybe they need their

(13:30):
lawn cut, or maybe they needsomebody to run for groceries.
It's an important thing for usas spiritual believers,
practicing practicalspirituality, practical
Christianity, and or whateverreligion you're in, to be a
practical spiritual person meanswhen you see something needs to

(13:51):
be done, help.
And whenever you find somebodywho's down on their luck,
somebody living on the street,when somebody crosses your path,
that's an opportunity for youto express and demonstrate your
spirituality and just how a goodSamaritan you are.
But again, people living withautism, it's very difficult.

(14:15):
And Jonathan is a uh masterbecause he has found the keys,
he's found a way.
That's why his book uh isExploring the Myths of Autism is
such a profound title.
Because when you hear the wordautism, you really don't know

(14:36):
what it means, but you sort ofgive up and you say, Oh, the
child has autism, and youdismiss it.
Well, Jonathan has found a wayor ways on how to communicate
with children, how to get pastthe mask, how to get into the
inner being, their personality.
And I could tell you stories,but we're hoping that our

(14:57):
technical glitches here getsolved and Jonathan can join the
show, as he is much moreauthoritative and understanding
of what he has discovered.
You see, autism isn't somethinglike that sit set in stone.
Autism is a way children think.

(15:18):
It's a personality that wecan't understand.
It's like they're inside,locked up in a body, and for
some reason they don'tcommunicate or think like we do.
But they do think and they dolive their lives.
They're just a little differentin the way that they are

(15:41):
reacting with the world aroundthem.
In the more severe cases, theyseem to be locked away in a
shell in their body, but they'rethere, they're alive and
they're well.
And Jonathan, again, has founda way to turn that key and get
into the child and get the childpracticing simple skills of

(16:01):
living at first, and then to goon with finding out how to get
past or around that corner, overthat hill, past that block, and
get the child pronouncingwords, doing things, increasing
their vocabulary, and livingtheir life to the fullest.
We're going to take a shortbreak in a moment, and we hope

(16:22):
we can get Jonathan back on theshow.
Uh, I guess we're having ateeny tiny bit of uh difficulty.
I've seen him pop up in thesidebar here a couple of times,
Larry.
So um, but have you do you havehave you seen children or have
you ever in your act interactionwith autistic children
yourself, other than the peopledown the street?

Speaker 06 (16:42):
Uh no, no, I have not.
Have you ever wondered what itis?
Yeah.

Larry (16:48):
I have.
And it's just it's just aquestion, but I've never seen a
full interaction or anythinglike that.

Douglas (16:59):
Yeah.
Well, that's usually the caseit is, Larry.
Not to put you on the spot, butthat was exactly what I was uh
going at.
Is that we don't take the time.
We say, oh, the child hasautism.
What does that mean?
Well, if Jonathan would be heretonight on the air, which we
hope we can get him on, just aminute, grab the computer, get

(17:21):
Oz behind the curtain there togive the computer a shake and
get this platform working.
We'll hopefully get him on.
So let's take a short break andwe'll be right back after this.

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Douglas (18:34):
And we're sorry that you're having some difficulty uh
getting on.
We'll try to call you.

Jack (18:40):
We've got uh Jonathan on the phone, Douglas.

Douglas (18:42):
Oh, there we go.
We've got him now.
Okay, well Jonathan low tech.
Wet in doubt, use the use thetelephone.

Speaker 08 (18:54):
Yeah.

Douglas (18:55):
Welcome to the show, Jonathan.
Uh we're sorry that we've hadsome technical glitches here
tonight, but um I was just I'vedone the introduction and I was
talking to uh my co-host Larrytonight about some of the myths
uh of autism.
And so as you join the show, uhplease tell us a little bit

(19:16):
about how you came to be such anauthority in autism, and uh
about your your amazing book,Exploring the Myths of Autism.

Jonathan (19:27):
Oh, hi Douglas, hi Larry.
Thank you for the invitation touh have this conversation with
you.
Uh and I'm I'm sorry for the uhtechnical uh uh glitches, but
here we are.
Like you said, theold-fashioned phone calls never
let you down.
Um I I I guess I missed thefirst part of um your

(19:50):
conversation that you've beentalking about the myths of
autism.
Was there one that you weresort of talking about the most
or something that uh I couldjump in on?

Douglas (20:00):
Yeah, we were talking uh just to uh bring the uh
audience up to speed aboutautism.
Uh Larry uh is a young man witha family, and uh I asked him uh
about autism and and hisexperiences with it.
And it was like everyone else,it's sort of like uh an
awareness of autism, but notreally um any in-depth uh

(20:22):
knowledge of it.
And of course, as I saidbefore, um one becomes a parent
of a special child, and youautomatically become an
advocate, uh trying to getservices and benefit to that
child.
So that's kind of where we are.
And uh and I I remarked abouthow some of the amazing
accomplishments you have made,not in detail, but how you took

(20:45):
it upon yourself to look at asort of a holistic way of
looking at autism, which issomething was novel, and that
you've risen to uh great heightsin your profession because
you've been able to explore themyths, but get by the mask of
what autism is, to get into themind of children with autism and

(21:08):
have them be live productivelives.

Jonathan (21:12):
Well, thank you, Douglas, for for uh setting that
up for sure.
And you you mentioned uh themyths of autism, and you're
right, I wrote a book, but letme just go back a little bit, uh
let me just share with yourlisteners how that came about
because I think it it tells aninteresting story of what
parents think actually.

(21:33):
Um so many years ago, I uh I Ilive in Canada.
Um, but at the time when Ibecame interested in helping
children, uh in particular, Ijust finished an undergraduate
degree, um, and also publishedsome research on brain
development.
And I was interested at thetime in how do children uh

(21:55):
learn.
But in particular, I Ipublished a paper on something
called superlearning back in theday in the 1970s, um, uh that
super learning was uh first sortof talked about.
And it was basically figuringout how could we accelerate
learning, both in how much youcould learn and how long you

(22:17):
could retain it.
But in any case, that's kind ofwhat where I started looking at
the brain.
I became interested in autismwhen I went down to
Massachusetts to a center there,the uh um the Sunrise program.
Uh at the time it was called,now it's called the Autism
Center for America.
And while I was there, uh I hadthe chance to join the training

(22:39):
program where I worked directlyone-on-one with autistic
children from around the world,all over the world, from
Australia, from Mexico, from theMiddle East.
I traveled to Saudi Arabia, Iwent to England, Ireland, Spain,
Holland, all around, across,all across the States and
Canada.
And that afforded me theability to see a whole range of

(23:02):
autism, because of course thesechildren are incredibly diverse,
they range from open to highfunctioning, verbal, non-verbal,
highly intelligent, strugglingwith intelligence, et cetera, et
cetera.
But what happened, Douglas andLarry, is as I was working
directly with the children, Iwas also, I would always have
been interested in research andscience.

(23:23):
And so I was going to a lot ofconferences.
I was very fortunate to be inthe area about a couple hours
from Boston, where you knowthere's MIT and Harvard and
Boston University, but also fromNew York.
I was a couple hours from NewYork, so lots of conferences
there in New Jersey.
And what would happen is Iwould go to these conferences

(23:44):
and I'd hear these scientistsand doctors and researchers,
they would say things aboutautistic children that were
diametrically opposed to what Iwas seeing a lot.
And the research arerespectable uh respectable, and

(24:04):
someone who's well respected andregarded, was talking about the
fact that he said that autisticchildren don't have
imagination, that they can't doimaginative and pretend like
they heard about the tensorrole.
I was thinking, is he talkingabout the same kids that I work
with?
Because I worked with a coupleof hundred at that point, and

(24:26):
they all seemed to be incrediblycreative and imaginative and
impacted so much so thatoftentimes they were sort of in
their own thoughts, if you will,with sort of their own dreams
and images.
Um and so I went back andstarted reading and looking up
some of the citations that thisdoctor gave.
And in fact, there was aliterature about the lack of

(24:50):
imagination of people.
Well, in any case, I startedwriting down on all the recipe
cards and the cards that youknow your grandma used to use to
write down the red recipe.
I got a package of those, and Idid it so that anytime I saw
and witnessed why I was a child,an example that contradicted

(25:12):
these statements that theseresearchers think, I'd write it
down like real life.
And I had also been collectingthe research around the myth.

(25:32):
And that's when I decided, youknow, someone needs to write a
book about uh what is theseservices live versus what these
researchers are promoting.
And so I wrote the bookchallenging the myths.
So I want to I'll just I don'twant to carry on too much uh
here, but but I will say thatwhat was so interesting, each

(25:53):
chapter what I did, so there'sseven myths that I talked about.
And in each chapter, I startfirst of all with giving the
history of how did the myth comeabout.
Because of course, you yourlisteners must be wondering,
well, Jonathan.
I mean, how could all theseresearchers be so ultimately
doctors?
I mean, aren't they seeing thesame page you are?
Well, it's so fascinating.

(26:15):
You know, how each myth cameabout was oftentimes a
conversation one researcher hadwith another or a published
paper that wasn't checked anddid well.
And these myths literally kindof creeped into our literature.
Fascinating, fascinating.
And they need to be changed.

(26:36):
That's why you we gottachallenge them because they're
incredibly limited, right?
Parents read this stuff andthey buy into it.
Teachers read it, they buy intoit, and it really taints the
way we see these wonderfulpeople.

Douglas (26:50):
Well, uh the traditional you know, view was
uh drawn from medical,psychological, and educational
perspectives, uh, again, passedon from one to another,
difficulties with socialcommunication interaction, uh
restricted repetitive patternsof behavior, interests, or
activities, you know, a widerange of symptoms uh that were

(27:13):
severely uh affixed toindividuals who were nonverbal.
And so, as you say, people werejust passing along what what
was given.
It wasn't the real truth.
But as uh I've mentionedearlier um before you were on,
that uh parents are the real uhpeople who need guidance and

(27:35):
help because they see the childand you know they uh the child
is is they're the best, thechild is their best patient,
they understand the child andthey can see these signs of
intelligence and and uhactivities.
And I never heard you tell methat before, that you did this
wide uh um uh note-taking, if Ican call it that, of these

(27:56):
behavioral improvements inchildren, because there's always
always intelligence there, andyou had the wherewithal to take
it down.
And and I guess you hadevidence where other people had
theory.
So, you know, that was amazing.
Uh, but to be patient and toand to be so caring and kind to
do that.
The next step is when uh youwrote this book and put it

(28:20):
forward, I'm sure it must haveperked up a lot of years, and
maybe you had some resistanceabout a suitable way of looking
uh at autism through your eyesand through the experiences
you've had, but you had theevidence.
And I guess you must have hadsome really wonderful ways and
means to help the parents uhunlock the the children from

(28:41):
this prison.
I'm gonna call it a prison ofautism, maybe this uh frame of
mind.
Can you tell us something abouthow you got from collecting
this information to writing abook and helping people?
I know you help people all overthe world.
You're very you're worldrenowned and for your success
with autism children.
Give us an idea of how you madethat stuff, that jump.

Jonathan (29:04):
Great.
Thank you, Douglas.
Well, let me uh I'll leave thebridge with just this one little
anecdote, okay?
Um while I was researching uhthe book, um one of the myths
that I look at I call the mythof uh the five-year myth of the

(29:25):
week of the five-year window.
And this is actually an ideathat many, many parents would,
especially children, justdisappear.
And it's the idea that wereally have this window between
you know, zero age up to fiveyears old, when the brain is
super fertile, lots of lots ofdendrites that can just lots of

(29:48):
nerve endings that can learn,lots of stuff.
And the idea is that after fiveyears old, that these
dendrites, there's not as manyof them that.
And there's a process actuallyin the brain, and this is all
true and scientific.
There's a process calledpruning that the brain does.
It's exactly it's calledpruning because it's like you

(30:10):
went out to your tree or a bushand you just cut off a bunch of
branches that were in the way ordead or not being used.
So your brain prunes itselffrom unused uh circuits, if you
will.

Douglas (30:23):
Wow.

Jonathan (30:23):
So the idea here is uh parents are told, hey, listen,
you really got about five yearsto help your autistic child
learn how to talk or draw acircle or count or even learn
how to put on their runningshoes.
And then after that, it reallylearning slows down.
And this idea, and again, it istrue that pruning happens, but

(30:46):
this idea is actually thescience is what led to
governments around the world tofund early intervention.
And that's where all of ourfunding goes between children
who are, you know, infants rightup to sort of three or four
years old.
And this is good.
This is very, very good.
But here's what's not good,Douglas.

(31:08):
And that is the idea thatsomehow after the age of five,
that it's all downhill fromhere.

Douglas (31:16):
Right, right.

Jonathan (31:17):
I don't know about you, but I'll tell you, I've
learned almost everything that Iknow in life after the age of
five.

Douglas (31:24):
I would agree with that.
And you keep on learning everyday.
Yeah.

Jonathan (31:28):
Of course, right?
But I'll tell you, so, and I'mI'm just doing the jump here to
to talk about my approach.
So, but while I was researchingthis book and I tell this story
in challenging the myths ofautism, I came across uh sort of
a mom blog and a chat chat uhuh group.
And so I was just reading someof the posts.

(31:50):
And on this one evening that Iwas researching, I read this
post that made me cry.
I had tears.
And I read it, and it was a momwho was reaching out to this
other mom support group, and shewas saying, Tonight is my son's
fifth birthday, and I'm myautistic son's fifth birthday,

(32:11):
and I'm sitting at home, and I'mand she said, and I'm angry at
myself, and I'm depressed, and Ifeel that I've let him down
because he still doesn't talk,and I've tried everything I can,
but it's his fifth birthday,and I've let him down.
And can you imagine?
So, this is a mom who is boughtinto the idea that she only had

(32:32):
five years to help him, andthen it's done.
And she was feeling so sad anddepressed, and I wanted to just
jump through that chat group andand you know, sort of grab her
and look at her in the eyes andsay, listen, there's lots of
hope, there's lots of time,there's lots of things that you
can do.
Don't give up and don't buythis myth.
And I tell this story and whathappened in the book.

(32:55):
So one of the very firststrategies, if you want to call
it a strategy, Douglas, that Ium approach helping a family
with is to look at actually whatyou could call their attitude
about autism.
And when I say attitude, I meanwhat are the beliefs that they
hold?
What are their how do theyimagine it?

(33:17):
How do they think about it?
What belief, do they believethe child is gonna learn after
five?
Do they believe the child iscreative and imaginative and can
do pretend play?
Or do they believe that theyonly have five years and will
probably never do pretend play?
So we actually do an inventoryof their the the parents'
attitude, how they feel.

(33:37):
And one of the things I helpthem with is to adopt a whole
new perspective that is hopefuland optimistic and not false,
not a false hope.
I'm not selling false hope, butthat's actually based on
science and real children thathave worked with.
So reframing your attitude,just like an athlete, if you

(34:00):
were, right?
Athletes that are in theOlympics, they actually have
psychologists, sportspsychologists who will train,
they're training their bodies tomaybe run a fast race, but they
also have a sports psychologistwho trains their thinking to
also win the race.
And so that's the first place Istart is to train the parents
thinking so that they can havehope and have a lot of success

(34:24):
moving forward.

Douglas (34:26):
Well, you know, there must be a whole learning curve
for the traditional therapistwho basically shut down as well
and saying, Well, they're onlyfive, or that's as much as we
can do.
Um I I had that experience inmy own family where someone
said, Well, the child is 18 andthe government assistant quits.
And you go, Yeah, but this thechild still needs to go to

(34:47):
school and needs things.
You say, Well, not much we cando.
They normally don't live muchlonger.
And that's that was uh somebodyactually said that cruel
statement in my presence.

Speaker 06 (35:00):
Pardon me.

Jonathan (35:06):
Yeah, I'm sorry, Give her the Douglas, that you went
went through that and that I'msorry adapted to that.
In some ways, cruel thing to sayto a parent.
You know, there's a balance.
Professionals want to not givefalse hope, and professionals
want to have real conversations.
But I think that there's somuch what I call mythology and

(35:30):
limiting ideas and beliefs thatuh aren't um don't really stand
up the reality that um there'sthere's a lot of work to be
done.
You know, there's a lot I Ihaven't met a professional yet,
Douglas, in 30 years of working,that doesn't have, you know,
some good intention to help thefamily and help the children.

(35:51):
They're coming from a goodplace.
I don't want to sound negativetowards my colleagues.
They're doing good things.
That professor who is standingup on the stage and talking
about autistic children don'thave imaginations, can't you
pretend play?
He wasn't there trying to putthem down.
He just had misinformation.
You know, so so what one of myambitions is is to re-educate or

(36:14):
educate my colleagues andparents with a different view.
And I'm sorry that you were,you know, went through back in
the day some of those limitingand negative beliefs.

Douglas (36:26):
Well, you have hands-on experience, Jonathan.
You're right there on the floordealing with the children,
looking them in the eye, andyou've been very um astute at
finding ways and means to youknow get into the mind of that
child.
I I thought that wasfascinating how you said about
the synopsis and the other uhthe pruning that takes place in

(36:49):
the brain.
I never quite thought of itthat way, but I know that if you
you know the old saying, if youdon't use it, you'll lose it,
you know, weightlifters andwhatnot.
So that makes perfect sense.
Uh there was uh back in the daythere was uh uh practice called
patterning, which was to take achild and go through the
motions, even though the childwas incapable of it on its own

(37:11):
accord, go through the motionsof crawling or swimming, and so
the child would re-earn uh thesteps and regain uh the mobility
uh in its own life, and itwould walk, it would uh the
child would walk again andcrawl, and and uh the brain
would be stimulated.
So that's a little bit of aside issue, but it was along the

(37:33):
same lines of retraining thebrain.
I think they do that peoplewhen people have strokes and
things like that.
They have this patterningprocess.
So this idea of you know thebrain rusting away after five
years, there's not much goingon.
I find that extremely well.
I'm not gonna use any anyderogatory words, but it's kind

(37:53):
of like uh just just you know,you know what it is, it's the
people standing up on a stage,they don't really deal with the
people on the floor, they don'treally children, they have no
hands-on experience likeyourself.

Jonathan (38:06):
So I think the ideal is to to blend both of those,
and and I remember patterning,and I think you know, it was
again there's some researchersand people with a good heart
that are saying, Well, we needto train the brain, and that's
true.
And so the idea work inpractice, you know, patterning

(38:29):
was often done againstchildren's will.
Uh, I remember seeing a videoof a child who was being
patterned to crawl because thechild couldn't do a cross-crawl
movement.
So if you you think about thelittle baby, how they crawl
across the floor floor, and yourleft knee goes first, and then
your right hand goes next, andthen your right knee and then

(38:50):
your left hand, and ultimatelyit's cross- it's called
cross-crawling.
And some children don't seem tobe able to do this, and so you
might pattern a child byliterally having two to four
adults, one on each limb, tohelp the child do this, which
can be lovely and nice and andcaring, but not if the child
doesn't want it.
This video, you know, kid whocouldn't wait to get out of

(39:12):
there and stand up and didn'twant to do this at all.
By the way, the child couldwalk, that you just hadn't gone
through the cross-crawl stage oflearning, and and these
therapists believe that you mustabsolutely go through the
cross-crawl phase, whether youskipped it or whatever.
So I think in practice, uh it'snot um, you know, always done
well.

(39:33):
But just as a for yourlisteners, as a little little uh
brain can be a little funthing.
You know, when I wasresearching, just going back for
a second to the brooding andthe five-year window, one of the
things I share in the book, inthis chapter, is this research
that had come out fairlyrecently at the time when I
wrote the book, but uh um aresearch at the National

(39:54):
Institute of Mental Health inthe States, the NIH, people
might have heard of that.
Um, a doctor by the name Dr.
Jay Gebes, and he actuallygame-changing sort of binary
research, he was able toidentify Doug that there's a
second wave of dendritic growth,of brain growth.
There's a second wave rightaround adolescence.

(40:15):
He he identified at between 10and 13 years of age, and then
there's a second pruning,actually.
And this was this this was likewe found this you know in in
the in the 2000s.
So this is pretty new research.
Uh, and and we didn't know thisbefore.
So we knew that the there's alot of dendrites when you're
born and they kind of getpruned.

(40:36):
What we didn't know is there'sthis another sort of burst of
growth, and uh, and then asecond rooming, just in early
adolescence.
So I wrote in the book I said,you know, based on that,
governments should fund earlyintervention, and then they
should fund uh early teenintervention.
Yeah.
Science that supports yourbrain's ripe at both of those

(40:58):
times.
But that's the kind of reallyinteresting stuff that if you
look at science and you look atwhat's really going on in the
ground, you can come up withsome great policies and help a
lot of kids.

Douglas (41:08):
Well, you know, the most important thing uh for
parents is when you know get tothose stages of potty training,
uh, you know, communication, I'mhungry, uh, the simple things
in life.
You know, I'm sick, I don'tfeel well.
And I I think I remember youtalking once uh about how you've
come up with some remedies andand also how difficult it is to

(41:30):
get teachers and the extendedhelpers to actually go along and
uh keep the what can we callit, the pattern going with the
child's uh I guess the child'sway of thinking or acting in
life.

Jonathan (41:45):
Well, uh you asked a little bit earlier, Doug, about
uh my approach that that I'veevolved over the last 20 years,
and it's what I call integrativemulti-treatment approach or
integrative multitreatmentintervention, IMTI.
And as it says right in thetitle, it's multi-treatment.

(42:06):
So just briefly for yourlisteners who may know a little
bit about autism, some of youlistening will will know a lot
about this, but in the field ofautism, if you look at uh an
individual with autism, there'smany different things that they
might be challenged wherethey're struggling with.
Could be communication, couldbe a gross motor movement.
You're talking aboutcoordination earlier in the

(42:27):
cross-crawl.
It could be um sensoryintegration, how they experience
their senses.
Maybe they might um feel thatuh a cotton shirt that most of
us are comfortable in it mightfeel scratchy to their skin.
So that's there could be awhole range from language to
movement to sensory and many,many other things.

(42:48):
And therefore, when you'reattempting to help a child and
educate a child and help a childthrive and develop with autism,
you really have to draw frommany different types of
approaches and strategies.
Okay, you have to sort of pullfrom a a wide range of things.
But what happens is our fieldhas specialists that are sort of

(43:12):
in their silos.
You have the the behaviorists,they're in their sort of column,
if you will, and you havespeech therapists and they're
doing their thing, and you haveoccupational therapists and
they're doing their thing, andwe need that specialty.
But what a parent faces is sowhat's gonna work for my
individual child?
How do I know what kind ofrecipe, if you will, it's a

(43:34):
weird word to use, but atreatment map that's gonna work
for my child?
How do I know which one ofthese things?
Because every child iscompletely unique.
So what I started over 20 yearsago was trying to develop a
method where we could look at achild's individual profile.
This child may have wonderfulmotor coordination, so they

(43:56):
don't need sort of occupationtherapy, but they might be
really, really challenged withlanguage, so let's get them
that.
So looking at an individualchild's profile and creating a
treatment map, creating aroadmap, helping the child the
parents decide what should we doand what shouldn't we do, and
in what order and in whattiming.
So that's integratedmulti-treatments approach, doing

(44:19):
it for years.
It includes biomedical, andthat's what you were just
talking about a minute ago whenyou said remedies, Douglas.
We also look at the child'sphysical health, so we look at
their digestion, we look attheir methylation, so that's
getting rid of toxins, we lookat um their mitochondria, so we
look at their energy, we look attheir sleep patterns, all of

(44:40):
the biomedical, and that becomespart of their profile that we
try and address and help themwith.

Jack (44:46):
Hey, Jonathan, Jonathan, we have a question from Carrie
on YouTube, and um the questionis how does neuroplasty affect
the brain of a child withautism?

Jonathan (45:01):
Well, yeah, sure.
Just for everyone, thank youfor the the question, Carrie.
So neuroplasticity is really aconcept that the brain is able
to learn.
Literally, that's what itmeans.
It means that the brain canlearn and it can learn new
things.
So that we're neuroplastic.
That means that we're not setin stone, you know.

(45:23):
Although some of my friendswhen I was a kid would call me a
rock head sometimes when I didthe wrong thing.
The fact is, my head isn't arock, that it's plastic, that it
can learn, it can grow throughneurology.
So and that's true for all ofus, and and it's also true for
autistic individuals.

(45:43):
So autistic individuals areable to learn that they have a
neuroplasticity as well.
That's really the the the shortanswer there.
And I think, Carrie, you know,what I would add just I'll uh
I'll add again, talking aboutthe myths, is uh it's actually
good news.
Neuroplasticity, the idea, thetheories, and the science behind

(46:04):
neuroplasticity is good newsfor parents because it gives
them hope to say, wow, you knowwhat?
Uh the brain can change andgrow.
Let me just give you though,Carrie, um one little insight
which I think is is ininteresting, which is um where
where neuroplasticity and thescience behind it really
developed strongly was in thearea of stroke research.

(46:27):
Okay, so so adults primarily uhwho would have a stroke and
they would you know maybe losesome functioning because some
part of their brain had astroke.
Uh and what researchers wereable to show is that specialist
cells are called glial cells.

(46:47):
So there's specialist languagecells and there's specialist
motor cells, that means movementcells that control our
movement, and there's specialistum vision cells, for example.
These are called glial cells inthe brain.
And this is fascinating.
Listen to this, this is sointeresting.
Researchers showed that glialcells can migrate from one part

(47:09):
of the brain to another.
So if one part of your brainwas injured, let's say for
language, that the if there weresome glial cells, specialist
language cells left that theycan literally and they literally
travel, they migrate to ahealthy part of the brain where
they can regrow and colonize.
And if you had enough input,that means therapy,

(47:30):
rehabilitation, that you couldpotentially regain some language
and there's some famous uhstories.
And again, I I write about thisin my book.
I tell some stories of this,but this is a great example of
the neuroplasticity of the brainthat we're not set in stone,
that it can evolve and grow.
The brain is fascinating,absolutely fascinating in its

(47:51):
ability to rehabilitate.
In some cases, sadly, it itdoesn't do that so well.
But the point of the story iskeep trying with rehabilitation,
keep going, because the braindoes have an ability to some
degree to to regrow and learn.

Douglas (48:11):
You know, Jonathan, that is something I did not
know.
Uh, but that makes perfectsense.
Uh the brain I guess that's uhfor anybody that has damage in
the brain, this process wouldcontinue as well.

Jonathan (48:25):
Well, yeah, it it it it does it does require science
is saying that it requires thatthat input, um, meaning uh uh an
occupational therapist or aspeech therapist, uh physical
therapist, to be thereencouraging that individual to
say, you know, try and lift yourleg or try and stick your

(48:49):
tongue out or try and touch yournose, you know.
So encouraging them, the thethe patient to to to do and move
beyond their limitations.
And with that encouragement,um, in some cases, the you know,
and a person's will, of course,is always the will of the
individual, uh, that the braincould begin to find the

(49:10):
connections it needs toliterally grow the circuits.

Douglas (49:14):
This is amazing, absolutely amazing.
Where can people get your book,Jonathan?

Jonathan (49:21):
Uh Doug, the uh my book, Challenging the Myths of
Autism, is really availableanywhere that you get your
books.
So uh, you know, Amazon is, Ithink, uh the company that
started as a bookstore and isnow something a lot more, but
you can get at Amazon in Canada,uh, indigo stores, you know, I
mean Kings will know the indigobookchain.

(49:43):
Um, in the States, Barnes andNoble can order it and get it.
You often have to order it.
Um, and uh if for those of youwho have sort of Kobo readers or
e-readers, uh my book isavailable um in those ways, and
you can get a hard copy uh oryou can get the digital copy.

Douglas (50:02):
Okay.
Well, let's take a short break.
Just uh how can people get ahold of you, Jonathan?
You have a website and what'syour company name or are are you
looking for people to helpstill as a therapist yourself or
your company?

Jonathan (50:16):
Yeah, Douglas, uh thanks.
I'll just be very brief.
I mean, we've talked a lotabout about challenging the
myths of autism the book, but umI've actually wrapped uh uh up
and just sort of taken a bit ofa sabbatical from working
directly with individualfamilies to create an online
platform so that I could reachmany, many, many more families,

(50:36):
thousands, I'm hoping, to helpkids.
It's called Thrive Guide, liketo Thrive T-H-R-I-Z-E, and then
one word guide to guide youthrough Thriving.co.
So ThriveGuide.co.
And that is a platform thatparents and educators who are
you know uh raising autistic chchildren can go.

(51:00):
And uh I'll just say in asentence here, basically they
enter a profile, they answer aquestion so that we get a sense
of the child, a pretty deepsense.
And then I've been working forthe last two years on an
algorithm that creates atreatment map, exactly what I
was explaining to you.
I've been doing for years,which is taking a child's
individual profile and beingable to point the parents in the

(51:25):
direction to say, here's thefive best next steps that you
can take.
Uh, I think it's a no-brainer.
I think any parent or teacherraising a child uh and and
helping them with autism wouldgo there to thriveby.co and and
want to um get this theseinsights uh that are put
together from autism specialistsincluding myself that are

(51:48):
really highly individualized.
Just incredible, incredibletool.

Douglas (51:52):
I think that's amazing, Jonathan.
You give people hope.
I mean, when the door seems tobe slamming closed, especially
with the treatment, but whenyou're five years old, your life
is over, to now uh, you know,these advances, uh I'm gonna
have to ask you about is AIhelping it at all, but these
advances that uh are takingchildren from having you know

(52:16):
being stigmatized and and uhtherefore abandoned to the point
where you have developed acompany that can ask questions
and profile children uh and andgive the parents hope.
I mean, there's nothing,absolutely nothing, that's uh
more hopeful than having parentswho would rather give up their

(52:37):
life and give their life totheir child if it if uh if a
cure or a remedy could be givento them.
I mean, that's how desperatechildren uh to parents come for
their children.
And what I've listening today,and I hope the audience is uh uh
uh appreciating just the effortthat you've made, the huge
Herculean effort.
But very clever, very wise inyour approach, and and no wonder

(53:01):
you've had great success in theway you have.
I'm gonna ask the producer ifwe have any more questions
before we go to a break.
And uh if we do in the chat, umuh Oz, do you have any uh
questions for Jonathan?

Jack (53:14):
Yeah, oh yeah, people want have a lot of questions.

Douglas (53:17):
Uh in that case, let's take a break and we'll come back
and ask those questions.

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Jack (54:34):
All right.
Uh Jonathan, we got anotherquestion for you.
You probably knew this one wascoming.
It's from uh viewer on YouTube.
Um uh N-O-Y-K.
His question is Is the thelatest flap about Tylenol a real

(54:56):
cause or just a diversionarytactic?

Jonathan (55:02):
Hmm.
Uh sure.
I'm I'm I'm happy to give someopinions on that.
With these caveats, uh, I amnot a medical doctor, I'm not a
scientific researcher in a lab,and I'm certainly not a
specialist on uh the connectionbetween Tylenol and autism.
So, with that said, to coverme, um happy to give uh just a

(55:28):
couple of ideas.
Um so so just really quickly,uh there is zero good scientific
research that has been donethat would show that Tylenol,
taking Tylenol as a mom, causesautism.

(55:48):
There is zero.
I've read the literature, I'veread the research, of course,
I'm looking at it as much as Ican.
Uh so there's no research thatshows that if you were to talk
with RFK, who is obviouslyDonald Trump's uh health guy,
looking at this and asking toshow you papers that actually
connect, and he wouldn't be ableto produce any.

(56:10):
So that's what I'll just sayright up front.
Now, listeners will say, Well,how the heck what they said it,
and how the heck would he saythat if there wasn't evidence?
And let me go into part twohere.
Part two is that um researchershave been looking at the
effects of acetamin, which isthe the medication in Tylenol
for years and any effects thatit might have on developing fs.

(56:34):
And by the way, the drugcompany who puts out Tylenol has
been doing this as well as theNIH and National Institute of
Health and other uh agencies,right, for safety.
Um, and so uh what they haveshown is that acetamin can be
toxic in some ways to the humanbody, and I'm using toxic in

(56:58):
quotes because you have tounpack what that means.
Certainly not suggesting thatit would lead to autism or
something, but can be toxic toto t in in some ways.
Uh so I'll sort of leave itthere on that.
But for those listeners and thelistener asked the question who
are interested in exploringmore, I'll point them in one

(57:20):
direction, and that is if if youstart reading about effects of
acetum NFN on the human body andhow it's metabolized, that
means or how is it digested andused chemically in the body, and
you'll come across a uh sort ofa part on the human gene called
NPHFR.

(57:41):
I'll say it again, NPHFR.
This is just a part of thehuman gene genome that we all
have, although some of us mighthave it and it might be s some
sort of change because ourgenetic code can change from
parents to child and so on andso forth for all sorts of
different reasons.
There's deletions, there'sSNPs, there's variants.

(58:02):
But MTHFR is responsible formethylation.
Okay?
And I won't get much morescientific than this, but
methylation is a way that ourbody um uh gets rid of toxins.
It's a way that we absorbnutrients in methylation,
there's a lot of things in thebody, it's very important.
And acetaminivin is uhinteracts with the methylation

(58:24):
cycle.
And why this is important andinteresting is because
methylation and and the MTHFR isa place on the human genome
that uh some uh individuals withautism uh don't have
functioning well.
Okay, so that brings us rightto the last sort of idea, which

(58:46):
is it may be possible that someindividuals, some fetuses or
some others who um have acertain genetic makeup may not
uh metabolize acetyl menophen aswell as others, or they may may
become a toxic load, and thatmight have an effect in some

(59:06):
way, shape, or form on theirbodies of the fetus.
However, however, there is zeroscience and research that would
show that yet, and this is alltheoretical what I'm s telling
you tonight.
It's science, but it's the ththe steps connecting them are
are theoretical.
And so the bottom line is umtylenol or fetominifid does have

(59:31):
a place in reducing fevers andreducing um inflammation uh in
some cases.
And so if a mother needs totake it and has been advised by
a doctor to take it to do that,uh in many cases that would be
safer to reduce inflammation andum and fever and this kind of

(59:53):
stuff than it would be to toavoid it.
So uh I'll say that.
You know, one thing that was alittle bit crazy and Uh Donald
Trump is the speaker not beforeor against that, but just you
know he said the mothers don'tthink Talono and then he said
and don't give it to your kidsand yet the whole theory that
RFK is putting out is that itsomehow causes autism when

(01:00:17):
mothers take it when the fetusis in.
So in other words, how wouldthat relate to once you're born
that you know what does a fetumbenefit do?
So it's just that there's a lotof crazy ideas that they were
putting out, really.

Jack (01:00:29):
Yeah.
Hey, well, one thing I want tomake the uh viewers know is that
I believe you're a Canadiancitizen.
Is that correct?

Speaker 08 (01:00:37):
You mentioned you mentioned that already, Jack.
Oh, did you?
Okay.
Yeah, well, maybe remind them.
Yeah.
Yeah, good point.

Jonathan (01:00:44):
That's right.
I'm not uh yeah, if it'simportant, I'm not uh I don't
have a vote in the Americansystem.
So I'm not for or against inthat sense in just talking uh
objectively at science.

Douglas (01:00:57):
Yeah, that was that was a good point, Jack, actually.
Uh so the the the point is thatthere's so much misinformation
about health.
Uh, you know, Jonathan, the theidea that uh the people that
suffer the most are the are themost vulnerable people in
society.
And I can't fathom my mindwhere the idea of Tylenol would

(01:01:21):
have such an ill effect otherthan there might be some other
reason that were but it willcome out in the future.
But I think you eloquently putforward about uh from a position
as you as you said, um, thatyou know still people shouldn't
be afraid, right?
I mean, this doesn't make senseat this point in time based on
the scientific studies.

Right.
I I I think you you you want towork with a medical doctor
who's following your body, yourphysiology, your needs, and
who's specialist if you'repregnant, is specialist in
pregnancy and giving a healthybirth.
I think you always want to readyour own research, and the
research and you know the if itcan be randomized, controlled,

(01:02:09):
double blind, and so on and soforth, and published in a
reputable journal.
So I think you know that thisis this is how you want to
approach health, the idea ofeverything in moderation and
some and so forth, but the ideaof uh that criminal causes
autism um is is not one that'sbeen accepted at this time, even

(01:02:30):
though it's being counted.
Um I think that the re the thelistener on YouTube the question
said are is it just a diversiontactic or I don't know about
that.
I can't comment on the thereasons for Donald Trump and RFK
to say what they're saying, butum, you know, uh who knows why
they're doing it.
But I think the important thingis Douglas, you're saying is um

(01:02:53):
this should not be scaring uhparents.

Douglas (01:02:57):
Yeah, life is scary enough, you know.
So Oz, do we have a couple morequestions before Jonathan goes?

Jack (01:03:05):
Yep, we got uh a couple, two more.
They're about ASD.
I'm not sure what ASD I hopeyou know.
Um, but the two questions arewhat do parents need to be aware
of?
Uh what signs do parents needto be aware of for ASD?
And what's the best educationsystem for those with ASD?

(01:03:28):
And those are both from Carrie.

Right.
Okay.
Uh uh Gary has some greatquestions.
Carrie, um, just reallybriefly, so for again, for all
the listeners, ASD is theacronym for autism spectrum
disorder.
So uh when I first began in thefield for whatever it's worth,
it used to be called autismdisorder, just A B.

(01:03:51):
And a number of years later,the psychologists and
psychiatrists really all agreed,you know what, there's a
spectrum, there's a wide range,right, of neurodiversity that
would be all encompassing.
Um, and so they they retitledit autism spectrum disorder.
That's all that means.

(01:04:12):
In terms of um signs uh thatyou'd be looking for, um, thanks
for the question.
Uh, I would direct you to oneof a hundred websites where you
could get that information um ina real clinical way, but you
might start um with your localuh autism chapter or chat GPT

(01:04:32):
will tell you it does change.
The the sort of diagnosticcriteria just change about every
five years or so in some littleways.
But basically, the the two orthree sort of categories that
you're looking for, Carrie, thatwould sort of raise a red flag.
Um, one is around socialcommunication.

(01:04:53):
So individuals who arediagnosed with autism or
autistic, uh, some of them cancommunicate very well, some of
them don't communicate at allvocally or verbally in the ways
that we know, but might be ableto communicate in other ways
through typing um and andnonverbal communication,

(01:05:13):
pointing and this kind of stuff.
Uh I've worked with childrenwho have all sorts of ways to
communicate behind thisvocalizing.
But one of the commonchallenges between all of them
is that social communication isa challenge.
And I'll just give you a quickexample.
I'm working with a little boyright now here in Ontario, in

(01:05:33):
Canada, seven years old.
And um he doesn't alwaysunderstand that you might have
different thoughts that he hasin his head.
That you might think, well, howis that possible?
But it's called theory of mind.
There's a whole theory outthere called TON, theory of
mind.
Um it's been written aboutquite broadly by a professor at

(01:05:57):
Cambridge University in England,um, Simon Barry Cohen.
In any case, uh, I'll keep itshort.
I think that basically umautistic individuals sometimes
don't understand you havedifferent thoughts.
And so that leads to adifferent kind of uh challenge
of communication.
The second uh uh category justbriefly here is repetitious and

(01:06:18):
ritualized behaviors.
Douglas uh mentioned that inthe intro earlier, that they
might do repetitive behaviorslike lining up uh toys all in a
row over and over and over.
They may need to hit a lightswitch a certain number of
times.
So repetitious ritualizedbehaviors really is a hallmark
of um artistic uh individuals.

(01:06:41):
I remember working with alittle girl who if her mother
went a different way to to takeher to school and she took a
different road, this child wouldabsolutely completely melt
down.
I could scream, I could break aglass.
Um, and sometimes the motherdidn't have a choice because
there might be road constructionand so she'd have to injure her

(01:07:03):
five or ten minutes.
So, you know, a child who isreally, really dysregulated
emotionally and was very upsetthat her mother turned left
instead of right.
Um, that's a behold into arepetitive ritual that the child
had to do.
And then thirdly, um, I wouldthink you know, recently uh
doctors and psychologists havesaid that one of the symptoms

(01:07:26):
that is fairly common is thesensory integration, which is
autism struggle with sensoryintegration.
Sorry, this is the last littlebit, Carrie said what is the
sensory intervention.
I'll just answer it verybriefly in the context of what I

(01:07:47):
said earlier about myappropriate integrated multiple
treatment intervention.
So Carrie, I think one of theissues in the field of autism is
that both professionals andparents are trying to find the
treatment.
And I would suggest that thereisn't an individual single gold

(01:08:08):
standard number one treatmentthat should be done for all
children with autism.
Why?
Because they're all differentand unique.
Right.
Uh I think similar to teachingchildren math, there's not one
way that every individual on theentire planet should be taught
you.
Some kids learn by movingbricks and and sort of manually

(01:08:32):
holding bits and pieces that youadd and subtract, and other
kids need to visually see apicture, and some kids sing a
song about a different andsubtract, and then other kids do
with a pencil and paper.
So is there one treatment?
No, there's a there is the aleading treatment that's
supposed to go common calledapplied behavioral analysis ABA.

(01:08:54):
That's really the one that'ssponsored the most by
governments around the world andschool boards.
Um again, my area is it's goodfor some, but not for all kids.
And it depends on when in theirdevelopment and what they need
and so on and so forth.
So my my my tip for parentslistening tonight is get to know

(01:09:16):
your individual child's needsand really, really believe that
there's a treatment map orroadmap that will suit your
individual child.
You don't have to do whateverybody else is doing.

Douglas (01:09:29):
Makes sense.
Makes good sense.
Excellent.

Jack (01:09:33):
Well, just two uh last things.
I think they're just uh uh onefrom Carrie.
She says your organization willbe so helpful for many families
as well as practitioners in theschool system and the
educational field.
And uh another comment fromShelly Smith on Facebook.

(01:09:53):
She says, enjoying this, veryinformative.
So just a little feedback foreveryone.

Hey, thank you.
Thank you very much.

Douglas (01:10:02):
Yeah.
So thank you for very much forbeing on the show tonight, uh,
Jonathan.
Uh again, people can get thename of your the title of your
book and where people can getit.
I I think you said it'savailable everywhere, which it
ought to be.
So uh a little bit about yourtitle and um I guess yeah.

(01:10:23):
Well, go ahead.

The book Challenging the Myths of Autism.
My uh the author's name is myname, Jonathan Alderson is my
last name.
A-L-D-E-R-S-O-N.
And again, you could get thatreally, really anywhere these
days.
Um and then for the parentslistening and educators, if
you're interested in finding outwhat my recommendations would

(01:10:45):
be for your unique child, thenyou would go to ThriveGuide.co
and uh you can log in there,create an account.
It's totally affordable.
In fact, we wanted to make itso that it was less than the
cost of one speech therapysession.
So we think it's a great value,and you can go in there and

(01:11:09):
you'll get immediately fiverecommendations at Massachusetts
profile, um, and and lots ofother resources.
By the way, Douglas, I'll justadd this one thing um prepared
because it's free.
Um, I do have a weekly um emailand you can get that at
driveguard.co you can sign upfor it's absolutely free.

(01:11:30):
And it's we're not sellinganything, you're not uh marketed
to, but you get it.
It's called the weekly aim,which stands for attitude,
intention, and motivation.
And it's just a little uhaudio, sometimes there's a video
for five, six minutes.
It'll give you a parenting tip,it'll give you an education
tip, a mindfulness tip, and uhthey're they're great funds.

(01:11:53):
You can go and sign up for thatif you like to.

Douglas (01:11:57):
Well, that's fantastic.
Uh always being observers,Jonathan.
You know, uh you're an amazingyou're an amazing person, you're
an amazing healer, and uh it'sit's amazing that the world has
you at this point in time.
That's all I can say.

I won't you know I want to words, thank you,
Douglas.
I feel the same about the waythat you've helped people as
well.
But uh thank you very much forhaving me on the program and
giving me this chance to sharesome good news, and I do hope
that it's helped at least uh oneor two parents out there this
evening.

Douglas (01:12:30):
I am sure it has, you know, I am sure it has.
I want to extend my deepestthanks to you for joining us
tonight on the show.
Your insights, your heart, andyour dedication to shifting the
way we see autism have trulymade this a remarkable
conversation.
As a Harvard educated educator,author of Again, Challenging

(01:12:51):
the Minds of Autism, sorry,challenging the myths of autism,
there goes my dyslexia, and atrue advocate for dignity and
potential, you've helpedilluminate why so many in the
world are longing to understand,not just about autism, but
about humanity.
You've reminded us tonight thatevery diagnosis is important,

(01:13:14):
but it's the soul and behindevery diagnosis, the challenge
and the calling.
We want to thank you for yourwisdom and your warmth tonight
and the wonderful work you'redoing in the world.
I'm sure you've helped manytonight.
And as this uh show will be onuh YouTube forever, uh, may
many, many people be furtheraided in the future.

(01:13:38):
Thank you very much, Jonathan.
You've touched uh our heartstonight, opened the minds of our
audience.
And I want to uh ask everyone,be sure to follow Jonathan's
work and share this conversationwith someone you might bump
into or know who truly needs tohear the wisdom of what Jonathan
has come up with.
Thank you again, Jonathan.

(01:13:58):
It's a pleasure to help you onthis show.
We'll have you on againsometime in the future.
We Godspeed, may peace andprosperity and much success be
with you always.

Announcer (01:14:08):
Thank you, Douglas.
Thank you.

Douglas (01:14:11):
You're very welcome.
We're gonna take a short break,my friends, and we'll be back
with the wind up of the showright after this.
The last segment of the show,my friends, is in the news.
And uh uh Larry, uh, we we findthat tomorrow there's a big,

(01:14:32):
big meeting with all the headsof the military in the good old
Washington US of A.
Um, I'm kind of scary.
Uh I feel a little apprehensiveabout this.
What do you think about that?

Larry (01:14:47):
I'm sure this has happened before.
Um, what you're feeling, andalso I do recall there was also
a big meeting during 9-11 andmaybe other major events.
Uh aren't they usually messy?
Like having a bunch of militaryofficials all in one place?
Are they coordinated or not?

Douglas (01:15:05):
It's very risky.
It's very risky.
I mean, uh the theshort-sightedness of uh military
planners to have all the um topbrass, if you will, in the U.S.
military all gathered in oneplace uh at one time, which has

(01:15:26):
been forecast, which has been,you know, announced.
Uh I'm sure there's gonna be alot of stoic military leaders
there tomorrow gonna roll theireyeballs when they uh uh arrive,
obeying orders.
You know, yes, sir, no, sir,three bags full, sir.
They're gonna be there.
One star, two star, three-star,four-star, five-star generals

(01:15:48):
are gonna be there.
And the huge entourage, they'llhave their uh security details
with them.
Uh this I've heard one reporttonight, this is gonna cost
millions and millions ofdollars.
Now, for those people who arewondering, but this is first uh
Secretary Hassas has calledthis, which I don't think it's

(01:16:11):
ever been done before inAmerican history.
And now the president is goingto join uh this meeting for
whatever purposes it's supposedto be.
Um I think there's a little uhshadowy uh shadow cast over
this, but uh whatever's gonnahappen, and I'm not gonna be

(01:16:31):
there.
I'm not a military man, and I'mnot uh, you know, I'm a
Canadian myself, so I I don'tI'm not taking sides for
everybody to understand that.
The point is that I'm I'mapprehensive about it because
this is something that's uh it'sdangerous, it's not wise, in my
intuitive, humble opinion.
And that uh, you know, uh thesecretary has called this, and

(01:16:53):
now with the president havingthe tenacity, or should I say
not the tenacity, I should saythe the reputation that when he
starts a talk, he does get alittle long-winded from time to
time.
So uh a meeting that could beotherwise done in secret over
military uh communicationchannels is now going to be in
the uh open, and there's gonnabe a lot of people put at risk.

(01:17:17):
Now, I'm I don't feel reallybad about it, but I did have a
dream, and I'm reminding peopleI had a vision in which there
were a lot of military people uhthat suffered from a bomb
blast.
And I'm not trying to scareanybody and I'm not trying to
put a spin on this, but I'm justsaying that uh tomorrow would
be um be a perfect opportunityfor some mischief to happen,

(01:17:42):
especially in today's uh today'sworld.
You know, the Pentagon calls uhthis rare meeting, and uh the
usual meeting would involveapproximately 800 generals and
admirals who were basedthroughout the United States and
stations overseas.
Well, tomorrow uh the defensesecretary has uh has ordered the

(01:18:04):
uh military leaders uh toaddress hundreds of military
leaders on Tuesday.
And I I just think this is youknow something that we ought to
pay really close attention to.
And so if we do that, and andwe also pray a little bit that
you know things are gonna gowell, it's in the news, it's
something that's unusual, it'sgoing to have consequences, and

(01:18:28):
I'm feeling a littleapprehensive about it.
That's what we're talking abouttonight.
If you have any comments, uh,you know, we have a few minutes
left in the show.
If you'd like to make a commentabout what you think about
tomorrow's uh uh unique, uh rareuh uh meeting with all the top
brass in one place, now's yourtime to uh call us up.

(01:18:50):
It's gonna happen in Virginia,I understand.
And uh the generals are maybemaybe there's gonna be some
things said that are gonna bequite surprising, you know.
Uh again, I'm I'm not trying tobe cryptic or mysterious.
I'm just trying to say, haveyou got any opinion out there?
What's your what's yourthoughts out there, my friends?
Oz, do we have any uh any inthe chat?

(01:19:12):
Larry, do you see anybody inthe chat having comments?
Not yet.
Okay.
Uh back in the day when theBlog Talk radio show, we used to
have reports of black op uhhelicopters going over top of
people's houses, and that usedto scare the heck out of people.
Uh, we had reports on uh whatdo they call them, above

(01:19:34):
unidentified objects flyingaround now.
They used to be called UFOsbefore.
So uh I would be curious, juston a whim now, that if there
aren't going to be mysteriousreports of such flying objects
going through the air thataren't actually grounded in uh
in the world, they're going tobe like maybe off-world uh
vehicles.

(01:19:55):
I'm just throwing that out as ateaser, my friend.
I'm not trying to be foolish,maybe I'm a little tired
tonight.
But uh let's play close, let'spay close attention to what's
going on tomorrow because youknow the administration's only
been in office for nine months,ten months now, and uh amazing
things have happened.
So uh it's in the newstomorrow.

(01:20:16):
Uh pay close attention to it.
And also I I want to, you know,say what happened to the uh
Church of Latter-day Saints inMichigan breaks my heart.
I am so sorry uh that this hashappened once again, but I also
want to uh remind everybody thatthere was amazing courage going

(01:20:38):
on in that church.
There were half a dozen peoplekilled or thereabouts, and I
understand there would have beenmore, except that the
parishioners were throwingthemselves in front of the
children and protecting them.
That is the greatest sacrificeany Christian-minded person
could be, uh, could do, rather.
So uh I throw that out at theend of the show here and say how

(01:21:01):
uh wonderful it was, uh, thishorrific event, the courage and
the love that were shown bythese people is just absolutely
amazing.
Absolutely amazing.
So may God bless them one andall.
So if we have any if we don'thave any other comments in the
uh in the chat, we'll uh uhwe'll we'll ask the odds if
there's anything else that'snew.

Jack (01:21:22):
Yeah, we do.
We have one more question foryou.
Okay.
Um this is from this two shallpass on YouTube.
Does GMO food have an effect onthe human body?
Okay, let's clarify what kindof food that would be.

(01:21:44):
Uh genetically what is thataltered?
Genetically modified for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, genetically modifiedfood.

Douglas (01:21:59):
There we go.
Um my thought is that you know,uh the human body is absolutely
amazing.
Uh whatever you put in yourtummy, stomach, there's a lot of
acid inside of that tummy, andit breaks down everything that
goes into it, and then the bodyselects to what it's going to

(01:22:23):
assimilate and what it's goingto reject.
And so if things aren't good,they're going to be rejected.
And so these modified foodsprobably, if their free food
value is zero or low, then it'sgoing to be rejected.
I don't think there's any harmin as much as that the uh

(01:22:45):
genetic makeup of the food hasbeen altered.
In other words, it's poisonousor it's derogatory or it's
disruptive.
I don't think that happens whenit's modified.
It's just the cell structure ofwhat I'm looking at in my mind
right now, the cell structure isdifferent.
It's made to be bigger orsomething that's uh maybe more
difficult to digest.

(01:23:06):
And so the worst case you wouldhave on this is a little bit of
digestion difficulty.
And of course, it's up toeverybody to select what food
they eat.
People who eat only organic,people are vegan, they're
vegetarian, you know, they'remeat eaters, and their genetic
makeup uh demands that kind offood.

(01:23:27):
There are people who require tohave good health to eat meat,
and they're perfectlycomfortable with that.
And there are people who,through their uh society or
their heritage, are vegetarians,true and true, and they are
very healthy.
The mistake that people make iscrossing over, intellectually

(01:23:50):
deciding what their body needsfor uh nutrition or nourishment,
and that doesn't work.
And you see a lot of people onspecial uh healthy diets, but
they're not well.
It's because their geneticmakeup, their heritage, if you
will, says that yes, they oughtto have fish, they ought to have

(01:24:11):
some different kind of proteinthan what they're taking right
now, as opposed to power, powderor some other source.
And some people cannot digestdairy products, and some people
uh can take dairy products ifthe lactose is taken at them.
So there are people are lactoseintolerant.
So everybody's different.

(01:24:33):
Uh a long time ago, I met aman, uh I'm gonna call him his
he was a doctor, his name wasRay, and he was doing
experiments on giving peoplemono meals.
That means every meal, onefood, one type of food, onions
for breakfast, apples for lunch,whatever.

(01:24:56):
But I remember the I rememberthe onions for breakfast.
He found that worked well forpeople.
I'm not going to get into that,but anyway, that was back in
the in the mid-70s.
He was talking about that.
And then the book came out, EatRight for Your Blood Type.
And I have nothing to do withthat, but I'll give it a
shout-out.
And that made more sense thatyour blood type would dictate

(01:25:18):
the type of diet you would have,whether it's a Mediterranean
diet or whether it's a meat dietor a vegetarian diet, etc.
Um, I I prefer myself aMediterranean diet, seems to be
well-round, which has lots of uhvegetables and fish.
That seems to do fit me thebest.
But I didn't find out until Iwas an old man in my 60s that uh

(01:25:42):
I used to love chocolate milk.
The chocolate milk I was eatingwas giving me mucus and colds
all the time.
I even went to a doctor and gotshots for it to my I was
allergic to something.
Nobody knew what it was.
Well, it turns out uh lactoseis not a good thing for me.
So by experiment and by keepingtrack of your own health, you

(01:26:05):
know if you eat certain kind offoods that makes you go to the
washroom really quick.
That's good to have in yourmind if you're having difficulty
that way, eat those foods.
You don't need to takelaxatives.
Or the other way around.
If uh you're weak and you don'tunderstand why, then look at
where did you come from?
Did you come from the mountainsin Europe, or did you come from

(01:26:27):
Africa, or did you come fromSouth America?
You know, somebody once told mewas an engineer that back in
the day when polio was breakingout in the US and Canada, that
people south of the borderdidn't have any polio cases.
It was because of the hotpeppers, the chili peppers that
they were eating was killing offthe virus, back uh the polio

(01:26:51):
virus in their gut.
Well, fast forward to today, wehave an understanding of uh
leaky gut syndrome.
That was pretty popular just acouple of years ago, and still
it's it's relevant and it's uhsomething to take into
consideration.
If you're having digestiveproblems, maybe you're having

(01:27:13):
leaky gut syndrome.
So getting back to the point,uh I I think that it's a choice
of what kind of food you aregoing to put in your mouth.
Because what you put in yourmouth, what you put through the
gate, if you will, to yourmouth, determines your your
health.
It's not how much you eat, it'swhat you eat.

(01:27:35):
And if you keep that rule ofthumb, then you can you'll find
out.
You know, when you eatsomething and you start having
gas or burping, or you know,you're having difficulty in
digestion, don't eat that food.
That's the problem.
And again, going back to Dr.
Ray, not his real name, butpart of his name, uh you can by

(01:27:56):
isolating and eating one food ata time, find out what is the
best food for you and what foodis not.
And you can do that right awayby eating something and say, oh,
my tummy's I'm bloated, I'm I'muh whatever, whatever.
You know, we get the point, myfriends.
So back to the point is that isI don't think that this
genetically modified uh uh foodis bad.

(01:28:20):
It might not be as good asorganic grown food.
Okay, and somewhere in themiddle is the rest of the food
that we eat when when people useuh farmers use uh fertilizers
and pesticides.
You know, organic food doesn'tlook pretty sometimes.
It's got little pits in it,it's got the little, you know,
the worms have taken a bite outof it here and there, but it is

(01:28:42):
genuinely organic, but it hasthe vitality of being natural.
I mean, after all, as we werehunters and gatherers back in
the day, we used to go aroundand pick the fruit off the
trees.
Watch out for Adam and Eve, butthat's beside the point that we
would eat those fruit thatfruit and it would be wherever
we were.

(01:29:03):
You know, if we went into afield and there were
blueberries, our ancestors usedto stuff themselves with
blueberries until the blueberrypatch was exhausted and they'd
move on down the road.
And that's when they might findbeans, or they would find
pineapples on a tree orsomething like that.
So, in a way, mono meals is thenatural way to eat.

(01:29:24):
But I can't see myself going toa fancy restaurant and saying,
Can I have a plate of olives,please?
You know, or I I only wantthose brown beans, okay?
Unless, of course, I met myfriend uh uh Raul's Chalios
restaurant in uh in Fort Worth,best authentic mess Mexican food

(01:29:45):
I've ever had in my life,Chalios in in Fort Worth.
Give him a free shout outthere.
Uh so you find out what's whatyour body operates under, what
what you digest and and how youget uh you feel stronger.
Uh you know, when you Eat foodand you go to sleep or you feel
weak, that means you've eitherhad the wrong combination or the

(01:30:05):
wrong food.
So watch out.
I mean when I travel, um Idon't eat uh any kind of
shellfish at all.
Uh anything that grows onanything that's a bottom crawler
is something you should avoidin the oceans.
Anything that doesn't havegills or fins, uh uh scales and
fins, don't eat it.

(01:30:26):
If if it's a fish, it hasscales and fins.
I think that's the rule ofthumb by getting something mixed
up.
So anyway, that's that's aninteresting question.
It's a good one.
Uh, but is there a danger ineating uh genetically modified
food?
I don't think so.
Is it good for you?
That's questionable.
Should you eat it?
That's your decision.

(01:30:47):
But I don't think it's gonnaharm everyone.
And if you're an advocate abouteating the right diet or
whatever, it's everybody hastheir free will and free choice,
so encourage people uh w to eatbetter.
In the simple way I've justbrought up with these things
that are popping in my mindintuitively as I'm talking.
I hope that answers thequestion.

(01:31:08):
Do we have another one, Jack?
I think that uh sums it up forthis evening, Douglas.
Okay, again, a wonderful show.
Thank you, Larry.
Uh last word.
Thank you, everyone, and thankyou, Douglas.
My pleasure.
Uh, you know, everybody's here.
Uh we're happy that you arehere.

(01:31:30):
We ask you to subscribe andlike our show and let people
know we're here because we'retrying to put forward a uh a
show that's unique and thatanswers the questions you want
to know.
And you know, and so as we uhwe hope we uh go to a close on
the show tonight, remember uhyou're welcome here anytime.

(01:31:52):
We'd love to hear from you fromtime to time.
Uh we have a website called thesoulreport.ca that we're
developing, and we have a newfeature that we're attempting to
bring forward, which is goingto be that you can call into the
show.
And as you do that, um, likeJonathan was on the phone
tonight, we hope to be able totalk to you.

(01:32:13):
We're looking for our friendCarol from Chicago, who used to
be on our radio show all thetime.
So, uh, again, my friends, welook forward to hearing from
you.
And we want to thank you forbeing on the show tonight, one
and all.
So, as we say goodnight, mayGod bless you.
May you have peace andprosperity.
Remember, it's harvest timecoming up.

(01:32:34):
This is the time to reap thebenefits of all the work you've
done this year.
May God bless you and keep you.
I'm your host, Dr.
My co-host is Larry Cruz, andthe Wizard of Oz behind the
curtain, our producer is JackBaelick.
We'll see you right here nextweek, but we might have a

(01:32:55):
different time.
We're thinking of going to alater show, and uh, we'll let
you know.
So stay tuned, subscribe to theshow, and we'll keep you in
touch with our changes as wemove forward and develop our
show further.
Good night, everybody.

Announcer (01:33:10):
Thank you very much for listening to Wake Up.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe so you'll be
notified when a new episode isposted.
And we'd greatly appreciateyour review of our show on
iTunes or wherever you get yourpodcasts to let others know
about the great content we'reproducing.
For more about Dr.
Douglas's self developmentclasses, books, and other

(01:33:32):
related products, please visithis website,
DouglasJamesCultural.com.
Until next time, we wish youall of God's blessings, health,
wealth, and peace of mind.

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