Episode 125. Ancient Ruins, Hidden Empires & Napoleon’s Search for Lost Knowledge | Walter Bosley - Wake Up with Miya

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
It's a well known story how in 19 O eight, I think it was
discovered reported in a 19 O 9 news story in Arizona about the
discovery of a necropolis a a city built inside the Canyon
walls in the Grand Canyon, right.
And that's in this area that hassince been sequestered off.

(00:23):
I'm good friends with David Childress.
I've been friends with him for years and years ago I learned
from him that in his research hefound out that most forestry
employees in in Department of Interior employees that work the
Grand Canyon, the majority of them are forbidden to go into
that part. There's only select employees
who are allowed to go into that part of the Canyon where this is

(00:45):
and what they I think was something that was built by
explorers from what was called the Calm Empire Ch AM.

(01:08):
Aloha, and welcome to another show, guys.
Today we have a very special guest with us, Walter Bosley.
Walter is a former US Air Force officer and former FBI
counterintelligence specialist with over 20 years in national
security. He has since become a

(01:29):
professional investigator of historical mysteries and author
a publisher focusing on hidden history, esoteric research, and
the unexplained. His work delves into everything
from secret missions and lost civilization to occult
connections in world events. The last time Walter joined us,

(01:51):
we had an incredible conversation about the esoteric
engineering of Disneyland and the mysterious connections to
the Merry Go Round and the Ley lines in the park.
This time we're focusing on his latest book, Napoleon Esoteric
2, where we explored hidden aspects of Napoleon's history,

(02:11):
his real mission to America's, the mystery surrounding Lewis
and Clark, and the strange circumstances of Merriweather
Lewis's death. But before we jump in, I want to
remind you, if you haven't already, please be sure to
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(02:34):
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(02:56):
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(03:17):
It's an easy way to support the show while getting something
valuable for yourself. Now, without further ado, let's
welcome Walter Bosley to the show and welcome back to the
show. The last time we spoke, we
explored your experience with the Disneyland and the Ley lines
running through Disneyland and the mysterious connection with

(03:38):
the Merry Go Round. And I actually, that was my one
of my favorite interviews, to behonest.
Really, Yes. I was just sorry that our the
recording wasn't that good. I think you recorded on your
phone and we were having troublepulling out the video.
I don't know if you remember that.
That's right, we, I I did have to do it on the phone.

(04:00):
I can't remember why, but this was great.
We got a better set up now. Yes, yes.
So the the video that I had to use was the raw video, and I
wasn't able to edit much of it. So it was the the footage was
terrible. So hopefully this time it will
be good. But that was my favorite.
I'm serious. That was my favorite.
Yeah. I really enjoyed that interview.

(04:22):
Yes. So today we're shifting gears
and we're going to talk about your latest book, Napoleon
Esoteric 2, which is now out. So that's an interesting title.
Was Napoleon actually involved in esoteric traditions, or was
it more about his hidden aspectsof history that most people
don't know about? He was very he.

(04:46):
He doesn't appear to have been involved in any formal, you
know, practice. He was not, for instance, not a
Freemason. However, the Masons in France
loved him. Masons in the US loved him.
He was very much supported by men who were Freemasons, one of

(05:06):
whom was his closest mentor. Gentleman in Gaspar Mong, who I
talk about in the first book, The Esoteric Napoleon, volume 1,
Gaspar Mong was the well, he's still well known as having been
a, a, a math genius, a math expert.

(05:27):
He's the father of one of the categories of geometry and, you
know, very intelligent guy. He was an active Freemason and a
lot of the people that Napoleon surrounded himself were
Freemasons and, and men who wereso inclined into the arcane and,
and occult knowledge and things like that.

(05:50):
So he was very much influenced by people like that.
He was very much personal, mentally interested in such
things, but it's a curious thing.
There doesn't appear to be any evidence that he was part of a a
formal tradition that he practiced.
Wow, well, I thought he I also thought he was.
I mean, even I think pictures portray him as that with the

(06:12):
hand in in the they. Do they do?
But there's, there's no, and my research encompassed on Napoleon
himself over somewhere between 6:00 to 7000 pages of biography,
which, you know, dates back to contemporary biographers, you

(06:35):
know, during his lifetime, all the way up in the intervening,
you know, over 200 years, you know, to, to current modern 1.
So I got a really great comprehensive foundation of who
this guy was, who he really was.And that that's what really
stands out, is this was a man who actually was more interested

(06:57):
in ancient history and lost civilization type of things in
science and nature and archaeology then he was
interested in politics or, you know, military science.
Even though he was a genius, to this day he is still taught in

(07:18):
war colleges. His strategy.
He, he was brilliant, but his real love was this arcane stuff,
which is why I titled the book The Esoteric Napoleon, because
he, he was, he was really into this stuff after Waterloo,
before, you know, we're told that he was captured in my book,

(07:39):
I go into a theory that's been around for 50 years or more.
Well, excuse me, it's been around for more than 200 years.
Because the British suspected that he had switched places with
his brother Joseph. They looked remarkably alike.
And his brother Joseph, this is documented by the witnesses who
were there at La Rochelle beforethe British came to arrest him.

(08:01):
His brother begged him, switch places with me.
They won't know the difference. Go to America.
There was AUS Navy ship waiting to take Napoleon to the United
States. The British suspected he was
going to do that. So they sent two men of war to,
I think, to New York Harbor and Boston, assuming that he was on
his way there. This suspicion that Napoleon had

(08:25):
switch places with his brother was something that even at that
time they thought he was going to do.
And in the days between after fleeing Waterloo, after that
loss and when he left the estateto go to La Rochelle to get on a
ship, he was gathering a libraryand all his scientific

(08:51):
equipment, telescopes, microscopes at the, you know,
everything he would need in the field.
And again, this is documented inthe biographies.
You know, this is history. He was talking about putting
together expeditions in the Americas and he was talking
about he would just spend the rest of his life exploring the

(09:13):
Americas, North America, South America, California.
He talked about going out and exploring California and just
spending the rest of his days inarchaeology and science.
And so, you know, here's a guy who was Napoleon and, you know,
that's what he wanted to do withthe rest of his life.
And he was very pleased about that.
It was like he was relieved thathe was no longer the emperor and

(09:37):
he just wanted to do those kindsof things.
So it was really his, his deepest intellectual love was
all this kind of stuff. Now that's incredible.
Where did he end up staying? Well, and he pardon.
Sorry. When he, when he came to
America, when he lived here. Well, we are told history tells

(09:58):
us that Joseph Bonaparte lived in Philadelphia for a while and
then in New Jersey. You're kidding there.
There was. And he was here for several
years. The president at the time would
not meet with him only because of politics and diplomacy.

(10:21):
And but it was it was made knownthat the the Joseph Bonaparte
was welcome and in the States, they loved Napoleon because they
saw that he was not the monster that British propaganda made him
out to be in continues to this day.

(10:41):
It's it's really ridiculous. But there was an incident I
believe on in downtown Philadelphia.
I think it was where Joseph runsinto a gentleman who had been a
personal guard for Napoleon, andthat personal guard, when he saw

(11:02):
him was like Mon emperor. And we're told by witnesses that
Joseph said, Oh, no, no, no, I'mhis brother Joseph.
He goes, no, I know my emperor, you know, he was the man's
personal bodyguard for a number of years.
And Joseph, you know, keeps insisting, oh, no, no, it's not
me, I'm not Napoleon. And and that's an example used

(11:23):
by folks who are advocates of the idea that he did switch
places with Joseph, that that itwas really Napoleon, that, that
these these people knew the difference between the two men,
you know, but the. But the resemblance was so
remarkable that Napoleon had used Joseph on a number of
occasions for security purposes while he was emperor as a

(11:47):
double. You know, they'd put him in the
royal coach and they'd have Joseph carted off.
And, you know, people would follow that carriage and then
the real Napoleon could slip off.
So, you know, again, Joseph really wanted him to switch
places. And I present in the first book
the idea and in the evidence that supports the idea that it

(12:09):
really happened that that it wasnot Napoleon on on Saint Helena.
Oh, by the way, the biographer who the British sent to
interview Napoleon on Saint Helena, he reported to his
masters in London. He said, this is not Napoleon.

(12:29):
They're like, well, I think it was this.
This is not Napoleon. This has got to be his brother.
And yet we're told that that never went anywhere.
It was just easier to let peoplethink, I guess, that it was
Napoleon on the island. It's it's very interesting stuff
when you look at the details. And Napoleon's Louisiana

(12:50):
dealings are often reduced to the Louisiana Purchase.
Do you suggest that there was more going on?
Do you believe he was trying to accomplish?
Well, What do you think he was trying to accomplish in North
America? I think he was very curious
about the ancient mysteries of North America and the the

(13:12):
history. This this kind of blew my mind
when I was doing the research onhim.
I because we're never told this.In 18 O2, he ordered his naval
secretary to send a A-Team understrictest secrecy to explore the
Louisiana Territory while they still had it.

(13:35):
This was the year before he sells it to the United States.
Now, what was going on at the time for context, you know, talk
about, like you said, we're never told the whole story with
him. We're told that he sent a big
military force merely to put down a rebellion in Saint St.

(13:55):
Domingue, St. Santo Domingo.
And what he was really doing wasthat was part of the mission.
Napoleon sent 2/3 of France's naval force with a bunch of
military support here to the Caribbean, to the islands, the
the the French islands here in the Caribbean.

(14:18):
Because primarily he was going to use the Americas as his
staging zone for expeditions to India.
He wanted to open up a diplomatic relations with India
and because of what was going on, all his enemies in Europe
and, and, you know, the Royal Navy controlling the

(14:38):
Mediterranean and such, he decided, OK, I'll, I'll just go
the Vasco da Gama route. I'll go from the Americas, you
know, around Africa and go to India that way.
And so I'll do all this. I'll set up the staging area and
you know, oh, there's this issueand Santo Domingo, OK, we'll
handle that too while we're there.

(15:00):
But his primary interest in in sending this huge force to the
Americas was the road to India. And so I have come to suspect
based upon his personal interest, which I described a
moment ago, and this clear strong intention to open up some

(15:23):
type of relationship with India.I suspect that this secret team
that he told his naval secretaryto send into the Louisiana
Territory had something to do with looking for ancient relics,
lost ruins, any kind of evidenceof past forgotten civilizations
presence in North America to start with.

(15:45):
And then, you know, by extension, he was also
interested in South America and all of that.
So yeah, we'd be talking about, you know, the megaliths and
things like that. So in my book, the Esoteric
Napoleon volume to I kind of look into what little we know
about Napoleon's secret team, because that's all we have and

(16:07):
historical record is that he told the naval secretary to send
this team in under strict this secrecy.
But we don't hear anything aboutwhere specifically they went,
what they found, what they reported, what they came away
with. All we know is that in 18 O 3,
Napoleon makes the deal of the century to Thomas Jefferson by

(16:28):
selling the entire in the entireLouisiana Territory, thus
doubling the size of the then United States, you know, with a
pen stroke. And we can get some kind of some
hints when we look at the Lewis and Clark expedition, for
instance, Thomas Jefferson, he shared a lot of similar

(16:50):
interests with Napoleon about science and history and
archaeology. He was interested in India also,
and he had the largest personal library in North America at that
time. And, you know, full of all sorts
of interesting things on ancienthistory and archaeologically
inclined. And he hires Meriwether Lewis to

(17:13):
be a personal assistant. But basically, he tells Louis,
stay at Monticello and you have unfettered access to my library.
So here's this fascinating library.
Here's Meriwether Lewis for a year, maybe longer than a year
when I think about it, just diving into Jefferson's library

(17:35):
and before the Lewis and Clark expedition sets out, Jefferson
instructs, and we have this documented in the National
Archives, by the way, in Jefferson's own hand.
He instructs Lewis to report to him Jefferson directly using a

(17:56):
cipher code that Jefferson provides to him and tells him
the things you find that are notfor public consumption, report
to me and use this cipher into this day.
That information and whatever Lewis was reporting to Jefferson
with that cipher code, as far asI know, has never gone public.

(18:17):
And when you read the journals of the Lewis and Clark
expedition, you find a lot of, of it's mostly Clark, right?
Because Captain Lewis, he went off for 9 days or he went off
for four days or he went off fortwo weeks, or we haven't heard
from Captain Lewis. And then, oh, Captain Lewis
showed back up and it's like, did Captain Lewis have anything

(18:39):
to report? So then you dig deeper into the
papers of the National Archives and you find the stuff that some
of it's in the Lewis and Clark journals, some is not.
And it's so, you know, we measure the heights of these
trees. We we noted that there was this
kind of deer there and we took some cartographic stuff.

(19:01):
But it really, you know, it leaves you with the distinct
impression that he was on some secret mission under direction
of Jefferson. And we're not learning what he
found, and we're not told whether he stayed within the
bounds of the Louisiana Territory exactly or not.
We just know that he was off doing his own thing very often.

(19:21):
And the stuff that we do have that's in the journals that
Lewis reported is so thin that it it really doesn't explain
satisfactorily what all he may have been doing secretly.
So what does that have to do with Napoleon?
I I suspect, as others do and have over the years, is that to

(19:43):
whatever degree Jefferson was aware of what Napoleon was
looking for, he was having Lewislook for the same things I
think, and it might have had to do with why Merriweather Lewis
died the way he did, which many people believe Lewis was
murdered. Yeah, that's correct.

(20:04):
You explored the idea that Lewisand Clark may have uncovered
something significant that was later suppressed.
What do you think that they werelooking for?
What do you think they found that was hidden?
Why was it hidden? Something got something with

(20:24):
ancient civilization. Yeah.
And it could, it could be that it, it, it could be something as
simple as a massive gold mother lode, right.
You know, and of course we wouldwant to keep that secret.
We'd want to keep something likethat to ourselves.
Or it could be the archaeology, you know, the archaeological

(20:50):
secrets that even in the early 19th century, for whatever
reason, they wanted to keep stuff suppressed and secret.
The Lewis and Clark expedition, you know, here's what's
interesting. As big a deal as we see that it
was, it was the details of it were virtually unknown, get

(21:12):
this, until America's Centennialin 1876, when our first
Centennial was being celebrated,that's when the Lewis and Clark
expedition was made a big deal. It went uncelebrated and
untalked about for decades. I mean, this is something that
took place between eighteen O 4 and 18 O 6, and it took 70 years

(21:33):
before, you know, Americans really started hearing about it
a lot and it being celebrated asan accomplishment.
So what the heck could they havefound possibly, you know, source
of gold That was tremendous. But there's also reason to
suspect that they found something that didn't go along

(21:54):
with the desired narrative. OK.
And narratives were beginning back then because remember by
1830 you had in England, you hadthe Royal Society was taken over
by the specialist, the bean counters.
And those guys hated the philosopher scientist.

(22:16):
Now remember the philosopher scientist guys like Isaac Newton
and other geniuses. These were the guys that were
the well-rounded guys. They knew a lot about a lot of
different categories of things. So what did that do?
They were able to put together abig picture, perhaps the big
picture that somebody didn't want the common people or anyone

(22:37):
figuring out. So you had this push for the
specialist scientist and by 1830, the Royal Society, the
specialist bean counter scientist outnumbered the
philosopher scientist and that changed the scientific
profession and community ever since.

(22:59):
That's why we have specialists, not too many generalists, OK,
because they they want people just focusing on their
particular thing. Don't think about anything else
because then you can put a big picture together.
So the move and, and how the Royal Society went so, so went

(23:20):
all of science right in the West, in the in America as well
as in, in Europe and in over andBritain.
But before leading up to this 1830 revolution in all of this
stuff, there was a push for that.
There had been a push for that. So the idea of a narrative, an

(23:41):
official narrative was already being molded and we were being
pushed in that direction. And the narrative, of course, is
that no one else was ever here before the Native American
tribes. And see, that had to do with
they didn't want to admit if Chinese explorers or any other

(24:01):
kind of Hindu explorers had everbeen here because what would
that do? That could give a land claim to
those countries, right? And back then, the young United
States very much wanted that territory.
England wanted that territory. And of course, Napoleon selling
it to Jefferson the way he did kind of foiled their their

(24:24):
desired control of the Mississippi.
Because if he hadn't and Englandhad gotten control of the
Mississippi between coastal blockades and the Mississippi
River, we would have been squeezed during the War of 1812
and after that. And they could have controlled
us. So, you know, it, it, it was all
the politics of the day and justwanting to control a narrative.

(24:50):
And that's the narrative that has been, I would say the, the
convenient narrative for academia, you know, and here's
the irony. You talk to, you talk to Native
American sources and you look attheir material and, and they're,
they were saying all along, oh, there were people here before us

(25:11):
or, you know, somebody would say, you know, a frontier,
someone would say, what's that? And and the, the local native,
you know, chief or whoever wouldsay, we don't know what that is.
It was built by the people before us.
So even they talk about the people before them, but
officialdom didn't want that. Now you do have another thing

(25:32):
which I think leads back possibly to the gold or
partially, is that you had a mannamed Nicholas Biddle, who when
you look at the Lewis and Clark journals when they were finally
published, Nicholas Biddle is listed as the editor.
But what Biddle was was a central banker.
OK, Andrew Jackson went butted heads with him because Biddle

(25:58):
was all about like Alexander Hamilton bringing the the
central banking into the United States.
Where is the people who knew thepotential evils of that?
They were against that. And here you have Biddle, a
banker who is keenly involved with the Lewis and Clark
Expedition Journal. So, you know, he was, in my
opinion, he was possibly orderedto pour through those journals

(26:22):
and find out what was discovered.
And I, I don't know to what extent he found out any of the
secrets that we don't know. But a, a guy like Nicholas
Biddle being involved with thesejournals is very interesting in
my opinion. And I talked about that in in
the book. So Biddle being a central
banker, while his masters would be the Bank of London and and

(26:47):
European bankers and probably inFrankfurt.
And so that kind of suggests thepossibility that they thought
maybe there was a huge gold mother lode, you know, in North
America. So there's all that.
There's all these different possibilities or a few different
possibilities. And so far it's hard to point to

(27:10):
the one with the smoking gun ahaevidence, because that hasn't
emerged yet. Hey Ohana, I hope you're loving
this conversation as much as I am.
I just wanted to pause for a quick moment to ask for your
support. If you're enjoying what you're
hearing and feel like we've earned it, I'd be so grateful if

(27:30):
you could leave us a rating or review.
Your honest feedback really helps us grow and reach more
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know, don't forget to share it with them.
Mahalo Nui Loa for being part ofour journey.
Now, back to the show. Yeah, that is an interesting

(27:55):
perspective, though, about that and, and the narratives that
you're talking about. I know recently they had found
in the Grand Canyon Buddha on onthe walls That was very recently
discovered. They don't know how old that is.
And also I don't know if you know that there's parts of the
Grand Canyon that has been sealed off where you can't go.

(28:19):
And apparently, apparently thosethings like what you said,
possibly gold. And I think they had found
Egyptian things there. I don't know if you've heard
that. Oh very I talk about that in the
1st in Napoleon esoteric Napoleon volume 1.
It's a well known story how in 19 O eight, I think it was
discovered reported in a 19 O 9 news story in Arizona about the

(28:43):
discovery of a necropolis a a city built inside the Canyon
walls in the Grand Canyon. Right.
And that's in this area that hassince been sequestered off.
I'm good friends with David Childress, have been friends
with him for years. And years ago I learned from him

(29:04):
that in his research he found out that most forestry employees
in in department of Interior employees that work the Grand
Canyon, the the, the majority ofthem are forbidden to go into
that part. There's only select employees
who are allowed to go into that part of the Canyon where this

(29:25):
is. And what they what they found, I
think was was something that wasbuilt by explorers from what was
called the calm Empire Ch AM andthe calm Empire.

(29:46):
Oh boy, I don't have in front ofme the the years that they're
they're a recognized historical what's the word?
It's a nautical empire. OK, They they they were a
shipping empire and they included member states all the
way Egypt, India, all through Southwest Asia, Thailand,

(30:10):
Vietnam came out all of that allthat part of the world for I
can't remember how many centuries they were the power
and they had probably global reach.
Certainly they made it to the Americas.
And I argue that that city foundinside the Grand Canyon in 19 O

(30:32):
8 was probably AAI don't want tosay colony and outpost of the
Kham empire that they made it tothe shores of the Americas, made
it to North America, California,possibly, maybe in Mexico and
work their way up, explored the way up to Arizona.
And they're the ones who built that.
Now, why do I think it's the calm empire?
Because the calm empire is included, as I said, Egyptians,

(30:58):
Hindus, people from Thailand. And, and so when you look at
that culture and you combine allthose cultures and their
spiritual beliefs and stuff, thethe best way maybe an American
archaeologist in 19 O 8 could describe what he's looking at
is, well, it's kind of Egyptian,but not it's kind of Buddhist,

(31:21):
but not. And that would perfectly
describe the calm empire. Now the Calm Empire also happens
to be a descendant empire of a Vedic empire that predates them.
And that's a lost one. That's a lost empire that in all
the lore and literature about itthat talks about it, they were

(31:42):
global. They they had a global reach,
which is why in the esoteric Napoleon volume to, I propose
suggest that what Napoleon mighthave been looking for and what
Merriweather Lewis might have found and others was the ruins
in the remnants and relics of that lost Vedic civilization

(32:05):
which had made its way to North America.
They could have been the builders of Cahokia, which
technically is outside the Louisiana Territory, but close
enough that Louis could have ventured over there, you know,
in his little meanderings. So I think that explains the
mystery city in the Grand Canyon, which I do think is

(32:27):
there. And you know it, it fits, you
know it, it fits the history of Southeast Asia, particularly
with this calm empire. That's it.
That's. Fascinating that really is.
I don't know if you've heard that they had found some
Egyptian hieroglyph writings in Maui, in the caves here in

(32:51):
Hawaii. Wow, OK that.
Doesn't surprise me, yeah. I think that was, you know,
it's, it's not even talked about.
I heard it couple of times on the TV probably 10 years ago.
They had discovered it in Maui and no one's talking about it.
Of course not. Because it's inconvenient.

(33:13):
I really, I have to admit I've, you know, when I say go all in,
I'm very enthused right now about this idea of a lost Vedic
empire. It it really with the stuff I'm
studying and researching and have looked at for years, It it
makes right now it makes the most sense now.

(33:35):
Yeah, as I continue in my research, I'm sure that you know
that that perhaps there were, you know, something will alter
that I'll learn some new stuff. But whether that's the answer or
part of the answer, I'm convinced presently that there
was this Vedic empire that was was global in its reach.

(33:59):
And it's important to note that the, the even the sort, the
sources from India, the scholarson this, they say, look, don't
look at India as the the origin or the exactly what this Vedic
empire was. He said our India that you know,
the India that we know is a product is, is a descendant

(34:23):
nation from this lost Vedic empire.
And he says they didn't even start in India, that it's just
that if the one place in the world that we have to look at
that still embraces and reflectsthe most of this lost Vedic
civilization happens to be India.

(34:43):
So even they're not they're scholars of this aren't so
ethnocentric to say, yeah, look at us.
It was us. He goes, no, it was the the
people who predated us. But we remain the most Vedic of
civilizations since then. So it's, it's like a good
starting point. And, you know, there's
linguistic etymological evidenceall over the world there.

(35:06):
There are words in Native American languages that are
identical to the Sanskrit, you know, that was spoken by the the
Vedic, the ancient Hindus. And there there's a very good
book, very short if you can findit, by a guy named Jean Matlock.
And it's titled The last Book onAtlantis you'll ever need to

(35:27):
read. It's an interesting title.
But he goes into this Vedic linguistic comparison with the
Hopi language and I think maybe in Navajo, but he talks about
the Hopies and, and such, and it's very compelling.
You have to be really stubbornlydedicated to the status quo and
the, you know, just the academicnarrative to just disregard this

(35:54):
evidence, to disregard this because it it and the evidence
is mounting. The more it gets revealed and
the more people look at it. Wow, that's.
Incredible. I know there was speculation
about Mayweather Lewis and that he didn't die, was a suicide,
that he was probably murdered. Yeah, it was one.

(36:14):
And it was one of those suicideslike, like the guy in the oh,
shoot, what was his name? The guy that was investigating
the, the, the crack conspiracy that led to the CIA and then
uncovered all this stuff, Gary something.
And and they say he was suicidedby shooting himself in the back

(36:35):
of the head twice. I mean, come on.
Meriwether Lewis, it was a similar thing.
He shot and stabbed himself and it just this ridiculous, you
know, it's just a ridiculous idea that he killed himself.
And in the 1990s, a forensics analysis was done.
I forgot it was one of the, I don't know if it was Johns

(36:59):
Hopkins or Georgetown or if it was federally connected, but a
legitimate forensics analysis was done on the Meriwether Lewis
death. And they officially came out and
said this was murder, this was ahomicide.
This man did not kill himself. And then of course, you know,
you don't hear about it anymore because the next question is,

(37:21):
what the heck? Why was he murdered?
Because this was only three years, I think after the Lewis
and Clark expedition was completed, it, it was within
just, you know, a few years and he was on his way to DC, you
know, to report something. And he gets killed in, in

(37:44):
Tennessee on the, on the road toDC.
So, yeah, he, I think, I think he was murdered.
I think that it had to do with the suppression of whatever
information it was, whatever he saw, whatever he witnessed,

(38:07):
whatever he was going to reveal,you know, he had a couple of
years to reveal it before he wasmurdered.
But, you know, it might be that he did further research and
someone just didn't want what hewas going to report to be
reported. And whether it had to do with
the Louisiana Territory or the Lewis and Clark expedition, we

(38:28):
don't know exactly for sure. But it's just too odd of a
juxtaposition, you know, those events, the end of the
expedition and his murder. So you have to wonder.
Absolutely. Did Napoleon ever go to the
Grand Canyon? Is there records of that?
No, there is no. Evidence that he ever made it.

(38:49):
It would have been the kind of thing that, you know, had that
necropolis been discovered in his lifetime.
Oh, he would have, you know, yeah.
Joseph would have made a trip out there to Arizona Territory,
you know, which is what it wouldhave been.
You know, Napoleon might have aninteresting connection to the

(39:10):
Smithsonian Institution. And remember, it was the
Smithsonian guys who reportedly found that city in the Grand
Canyon. Of course, Napoleon Bonaparte, I
talk about this in the first book.
Napoleon Bonaparte had a vision of a, an organization that would

(39:32):
be a national organization very much like the Smithsonian
Institution turned out to be. And when Joseph went to, you
know, cuz long after Waterloo was over and all the dust had
settled, you know, these folks were able to travel back and
forth from, you know, the statesto Europe, you know, go back to

(39:53):
France. And and Joseph, we are told,
even spent a visit like a week or so with, with Lord
Wellington. Now Wellington is the one that
the British, who was a British commander at the time, is
famously credited with the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo.
And I want you to think about this if.

(40:14):
Many of us are right who suspectthis and it's been suspected for
a long time if Napoleon was living as Joseph.
We know for a fact matter of historical record that Joseph
spent this visit years after Waterloo with Wellington as his
estate. I want you to think about this.
If Napoleon was living as Joseph, you're talking about

(40:35):
Napoleon Bonaparte just spendinga a weekend with Wellington, the
guy who defeated him, his mortalenemy, just having a good time,
you know, former enemies, you know, just hanging out, doing
what, you know, 18th, 19th century men did at that time,
you know, drinking the wine and eating the good food and
laughing about, you know, past things.

(40:56):
But while he was there in that in, over there in, in England
and then in Europe, there was aninteresting money transfer.
And the, the, the, the, there was money transferred to the
United States Congress in the name of a guy named James
Smithson. OK, That's where we get the

(41:18):
Smithsonian from. And Joseph, I'm, I'm, I would
have to open up the book, but Joseph had some connection with,
you know, Joseph with expressing, you know, this the
United States start their own organization and, and, and we're
bequeathing this money to the USCongress in the name of this

(41:40):
James Smithson. And when you look at Smithson,
there's some mystery as to what,you know, where did this money
really come from? That's what it comes down to.
And I go into that mystery in the book, But it looks like that
very easily. Napoleon as Joseph could have
pulled the money, gifted it to the United States.

(42:03):
And that's what they eventually founded the Smithsonian
Institution on because Congress,of course, held on to the money,
you know, for decades. And then finally, OK, we're
supposed to do this with this, and they founded the
Smithsonian. So it looks like Napoleon
Bonaparte's money, Napoleon Bonaparte might have had a hand
in the creation of the Smithsonian Institution.

(42:26):
Of course they do things not in the spirit of Napoleon where,
you know, he, he wasn't about suppressing the scientific or
historical narrative. He, he was all about sharing
this stuff, you know, with the people and openly.
But as we know, the Smithsonian has a reputation for hiding
things now. So, yeah, Yeah, that's right.

(42:48):
People think they know Napoleon.I mean, I I thought I did.
But your your research presents a different picture.
What do you think the biggest misconception about him that you
found during your research? That he was a humorless
megalomaniac, that he was a despot dictator.
He would the man had he had selfdeprecating humor.

(43:11):
That he had a really, you know, he could be quick witted.
He he's, he's at the well, I, I won't tell that story because I
can't remember all the proper details of the punchline, but it
had to do with a guy falling allover himself, expressing his
fascination and, and infatuationwith Napoleon's wife, Napoleon

(43:34):
sitting right there. And he, Napoleon made some funny
comment about, well, that would be inconvenient because, you
know, you're telling her husbandabout it.
And he laughed it off, you know,but also it we, it wasn't after
it was after losing because he only lost a very few battles,
Waterloo being one of those maybe 2.

(43:54):
But it was when he was having toflee from a defeat that he's
riding away on his horse and he's got one of his, you know,
subordinate commanders. And he turns to that guy and
kind of laughs. And he says, well, we really
screwed up this one, didn't we? As we, you know, as they rode
off and the guy, he was not, youknow, did he have an ego?

(44:16):
Yeah, of course he did. You know, you, you, you don't,
you're not that kind of a figure, historical figure.
And and, you know, not have a little confidence and not have
something of an ego. You know, not all ego is evil.
We live in times where, oh, any ounce of ego is, is a bad thing.
And it's like, OK, quit sniveling on your knees, stand
up, you know, right in your backout.

(44:37):
It's OK to have a little confident, you know, to, you
know, a little egos. OK, But he, he was not the the
humorless megalomaniac who neverregretted, you know, things that
happened. There was a guy who was, I don't
think he was a journalist, but he was dealing with journalists.

(44:58):
And Napoleon wanted him to be taken care of and, you know,
just kind of wanted the problem to go away.
And unfortunately, he looked theother way.
And one of his underlings had the guy murdered.
And Napoleon, the he regretted that he, you know, he knew.
Maybe I should have handled thata little more directly.

(45:21):
Also, Santo Domingo, it was a slave uprising and Napoleon sent
the military because they were killing and slaughtering people,
I mean, in the streets and stuff.
And he because remember, he's the one that outlawed slavery in
France and he reinstituted slavery in Santo Domingo.

(45:49):
And I think it was reinstituted for the for three weeks, maybe a
month. And then he even says this in
his letters. He's like, Oh my God.
OK, This I that was one of his biggest regrets.
So people point to things like that and they say he was just a
desperate a hole. And it's like, no, the guy,
yeah, he was capable of mistakes, but he also expressed
regret. Now that was one of them.

(46:10):
One of his biggest regrets is because he hated, you know, a
slavery. He was, you know, one of the the
European folks back then that early on was like, no, no, no,
no, we shouldn't, you know, do this to other people.
But he when he invaded a place and conquered, for instance, he

(46:34):
would actually improve the conditions for the people there.
In other words, of their own dynasties that were ruling them.
Their monarchies were having them live in squalor and they
were enslaving them essentially as serfs.
When when France and Napoleon came in and conquered a place,
he would come in and improve thethe conditions in the cities and
in, in the way the cities and the municipalities were run and

(46:57):
the way the people were treated.So much so that the people said,
oh, hey, wait a minute, this Napoleon guy's making our lives
better. This is what England feared.
This is why they stirred up the hatred and the propaganda.
And he's a monster. He'll eat your children and all
that crap. Oh, he's a desk.
But he's awful. You know, they would point to

(47:19):
the battle. OK, look, folks, we all know
warfare is awful. It's hell.
Bad violent things happen duringwarfare.
But the more civilized people, once the warfare is over, once
the objective is achieved, you stop the the war and you go and
fix things and you bring lift people back up.

(47:40):
And you, you know, and this is the stuff that Napoleon would do
and a lot of the things that that were implemented in France
and wherever, you know, he conquered still exists to this
day, like Napoleonic law still exists in France.
Little things like the way cities are laid out, you know,

(48:00):
our address system where you go down the street and the odd
numbers are on one side, the even on the other.
That was a an idea that Napoleonhimself actually had.
Now, he assigned his underlings,OK, make this happen.
This is how we'll do it. But this is one of his own
personal ideas. And we still use these things.
But yeah, that's one of the biggest lies and misconceptions

(48:22):
is that he was this awful monster who was nothing but a
horrible tyrant despot. And that it just, no, that was
spun up because here's what it was.
England, the, you know, their, their precious empire, the
British Empire, was so glorious and all that they had been
embarrassed on the world stage after our revolution.

(48:45):
And so, you know, they tried it again in 1812 and again, it
didn't work, you know, so here was this Napoleon guy in France
and he was stealing their Thunder.
France was poised, if they didn't stop them, to be a much
bigger and stronger empire than England, you know, even imagined

(49:08):
itself. And that kind of didn't make
them happy. So he was their big rival.
He was beating them at their owngame.
So that was another reason why they had to hate him.
You know, there were, I think 8 Napoleonic Wars and seven of
them were not started by Napoleon.
Seven of them were started by England or England and the

(49:30):
European monarchies that they buddied up with.
You know, so England was going around causing all this,
stirring all this stuff up, going to the other European
monarchs and saying you got to stop this Napoleon guy.
England's really the villain official England.
The British people, That was another reason why they wanted
to send Napoleon to Saint Helena, is they were afraid

(49:51):
their own people might really find Napoleon interesting and
like him and he would win their own people over.
And they couldn't have that. So we're talking official
England, the, the monarchy, the bankers and you know, the, the
elitist, you know, that's official England.
When I say England was the villain, I mean the British

(50:13):
imperial leaders and monarchy. They were the villains in the
Napoleon's story. And you're you're going to get a
lot of negative comments on thisbecause there are the shills
that have grown up hearing the British version and they hate my
Napoleon books. They hate when I say this and
talk about it, but Oh well, it'swhat I'm fun search.

(50:35):
Absolutely. You're just stating facts.
So and and and and I'm. Putting forth, you know, a
hypothesis that I clearly identify upfront that, you know,
this is my position, so absolutely.
Was he short Every All, all the records say he was short.
Oh, he, he. Was average height for men that
time. You know, all people were

(50:57):
shorter and smaller than we are.You know, you look at the
clothes in the museums, right? And the, and jackets had these
narrow little shoulders. A lot of that was the the
fashion design at the time, but still they were smaller people.
You know how tall was he was? He he wasn't 5 foot was he or he
he he was under. 6 feet, but he over 5 feet.

(51:18):
Yeah, he he was, he was average height.
Here's the other thing is this, this is kind of fun.
A lot of several female readers,when they read the book and they
they look at Napoleon more closely and they see the the
paintings of them when he was younger.
See, all we're ever taught in British propaganda is the, you

(51:41):
know, the fat, balding megalomaniac.
But no, no, no, for most of Napoleon's time on the world
stage, he was this slender guy with long hair for the first
few, then these brooding, you know, handsome French looks.
I mean, a lot of women, you know, they'll look at this and
they'll go, oh, that was Napoleon.

(52:03):
I'm like, that was Napoleon. The ladies loved the guy, you
know, and he was this, he was The funny thing was he was born
Italian. He was not born French.
And all his life he spoke Frenchwith an Italian accent.
So here you have a guy this, youknow, this, this young guy with
these good brooding looks and he's Italian born and he's

(52:24):
embraced French, you know, and he and he's very much a romantic
guy. If you see the Ridley Scott
film, which I think needs to be retitled, if he retitles it,
look at that film as Napoleon and Josephine.
If you go into that movie just looking at it telling their
story, it's very accurate, OK. The the rest of it, I was

(52:46):
disappointed that Ridley Scott just went the the routine
standard narrative on Napoleon. I'm very disappointed in that.
But the relationship as depictedin the movie like all The Dirty
letters and the the constant sexbetween these two and and and
really wild sex. But this was historical.

(53:06):
In fact there was a scandal. A housemaid had stolen these
sexy letters that he had writtento Josephine and sold it to a
newspaper of the day. And these letters, explicit
letters were being printed publicly.
And Napoleon was like, oh, because the stuff in those

(53:26):
letters, it's no exaggeration. It wouldn't, it would make, you
know, people blush today. So he was a very passionate, you
know, kind of guy and again, very smart and just just just a
fascinating guy. Absolutely.

(53:47):
Wow. Well, I want to thank you again
for coming on. This has been an absolute
fascinating conversation. I appreciate you taking your
time and your insights, your research with us.
But before we wrap up, can you let everyone know where they can
find your work and where where they can follow you and what
you're doing next? Yeah, sure.

(54:08):
The best place is go to walterbosley.com.
That's where all my books are are you can, they're available
there. Walter bosley.com.
I also have the Walter Bosley channel on YouTube where there's
a lot of my videos from the pastand the live stuff that I've
done and and current stuff, the new stuff.
So yeah, those two places, Walter bosley.com and the Walter

(54:30):
Bosley channel at YouTube are the the best start.
Well, thank you. I hope you can.
Come back again because I reallywanted to talk about your book,
The Empire of the Wheel. And that brings.
Us to an end of another episode.I want to thank my special guest
Walter Bazzi for coming on and sharing his incredible research
and insights. It's always a fascinating

(54:52):
conversation and I truly appreciate his time and
expertise. If you've enjoyed this episode,
don't forget to follow, subscribe and leave a positive
review. It helps more people to discover
our show and it keeps these deepconversations going.
If you'd like to support the. Show in a way that cost you

(55:13):
nothing extra. Please visit sensiblehippie.com
and check out where I shop. Any purchases made through those
links helps fund the show while bringing you products and books
I personally recommend. Until the next time guys, take
care and stay sensible. Bye.

(56:07):
None. The.

(57:11):
None. The.

(58:15):
The.

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Episode 125. Ancient Ruins, Hidden Empires & Napoleon’s Search for Lost Knowledge | Walter Bosley

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 125. Ancient Ruins, Hidden Empires & Napoleon’s Search for Lost Knowledge | Walter Bosley