Episode 134. The Curse of Oz II: JFK, Kubrick, and the Mystery of 42 & 77 | Robert W. Sullivan IV - Wake Up with Miya

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
The main the main Nexus with this is Cooper gives this away
in the movie The Shining. Cooper comes out and basically
says, yeah, I'm the guy who filmed the moon landing footage.
And it's the scene in The Shining where the little boy
Danny is playing with the toys on the carpet.
And then he stands up and he hasthe Apollo 11 sweater on, and
then he goes into room 237. Back in 1979 when The Shining

(00:25):
was filmed, the distance from the Earth to the moon was 230
700,000 miles. So the idea is it's Apollo 11,
Danny going to the moon by goinginto it.
This is supposed to be 1 of Kubrick's hip hops that he
filmed the lunar footage. There's a couple others that are
that are very interesting. One is if you go back in time

(00:46):
before The Shining, the the movie that Kubrick made before
The Shining was was Barry Lyndon.
Aloha, and welcome to another show, guys.

(01:09):
Today I have a returning guest with us, Robert W Sullivan, the
4th. He's back for his 2nd
appearance. And Robert is a historian, A
philosopher, theologian, an attorney, a 32nd degree
Freemason, author, and researcher of esoteric
knowledge. He's written multiple books,

(01:30):
including The Royal Arch of Enoch, Cinema Symbolism Volumes
1-2 and three, and his fiction work A Pact with the Devil.
He's currently working on CinemaSymbolism 4, and his insights
dive deep into hidden symbolism in films, occult history,
numerology, and secret society. He's also appeared on major

(01:55):
platforms like Coast to Coast AMand History Channel, and I'm
honored to have him back again with us.
Before we jump in, make sure youfollow, subscribe, and hit that
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(02:17):
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(02:42):
you who keep this podcast alive.I may not always get a chance to
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not only subscribed, but who hasshared this show with family and
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ohana with more like minded souls who are waking up and

(03:04):
paying attention. All right, guys, I'll stop
talking. Let's get into it.
Enjoy the show. Aloha, Robert, and welcome back
to the show. Our first chat was
unforgettable. We dove into JFK's missing
brain, Princess Diana, Kobe Bryant, Aleister Crowley, 911,

(03:26):
the symbolic powers of 42 and 77, and how it all was tied into
the Wizard of Oz. So I'm thrilled to have you back
to explore on these in a little bit more deeper for our
listeners or for our new listeners.
Can you share with them a littlebit about yourself and what
draws you to decoding this Wizard of Oz hidden symbolism?

(03:49):
Sure, absolutely. So my name is Robert Sullivan.
I am an attorney here in Baltimore, MD.
I'm a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Freemason.
I've been involved in Freemasonry for almost 30 years
now. I became a Blue Lodge Mason back
in 1997 and I joined the Scottish Rite in 1999.
So I've been very involved with it and, and a member for quite

(04:12):
some time now. I this is just subject matters
like the occult, the esoteric, mysticism, cryptozoology.
These are all topics that I've been interested in since I was a
little boy. The show that I grew up on in
the 1970s was a show hosted by Leonard Nimoy called In Search
Of. And that was the show that kind

(04:32):
of like wrote me into all this. And it's just been a fascination
with me with through, you know, my whole life.
No other way to explain it. Just part of my DNA, as it were.
I published my first book, The Royal Arch of Enoch.
It's hard to believe this is nowgoing going to be, good grief,
13 years in August that that book's been out.

(04:53):
And then I've had three cinema books out.
These are about like movie symbolisms, you know, underlying
themes are called motifs or tropes that you will find in
popular cinema, even TV shows. And I do have one work of
fiction out called A Pack with the Devil, something I'm very
proud of, but I've really never have gotten around for various

(05:13):
reasons. Just really never promoting it.
Just it seems like there's just never enough time in the day.
I am working on several projectsright now.
The closest one that will be coming out is Cinema Symbolism
4. I actually only have, I was
working on that today. I actually have actual, I have
two chapters left to write on that and the conclusion.
Of course I have to edit it, butbut that's my next book.

(05:36):
That's of course the next one inline with the movie books.
Then I'm going to do a book called Cinema Symbolism Oz,
where I'm just going into all the Wizard of Oz themes, the
political, the Gnostic, the Kabbalistic, and of course, this
Wizard of Oz, Aleister Crowley linked with the procession of
the equinoxes, the new solar age.
That's very fascinating. And then I am working on some

(06:00):
revised editions of some of my earlier works.
This does include the Royal Archof Enoch and Cinema Symbolisms
one and two. There's a couple things in there
I want to tweak, add a couple things.
There's a couple things that I want to take out.
Those I'm also working on right now as well.
I'm also probably going to do some more fiction.

(06:21):
But again, right now my my primary focus is on Cinema
Symbolism 4, which based on my best guesstimate should be out
probably knowing the editorial process and putting it together.
I do think it should be out probably somewhere by spring of
next year is when I'm gunning for so.
So that's very good Cinema symbolism.

(06:43):
Oz will probably be up next. And then I am, I have started
working on some of these revisededitions.
So that's where I am with that right now.
It's coming along very well and I'm real happy with the way it's
turning out. I I have no complaints with it.
Yeah, you're a busy guy, that's for sure.
And in light of the recent declassification of JFK and his

(07:05):
assassination, the documents that came out by the Trump
administration, I guess new insights have emerged regarding
the CIA's involvement surveillance of Lee Harvey
Oswald. Is there any connection?
I can't remember if there was any connection between JF
Kennedy and the Wizard of Oz in your research.

(07:27):
There is I, I haven't, I have not really paid, unfortunately.
I just haven't had the time to really get into what has been
released and not released. So I'm clueless on that.
Oh, yeah. But I mean, my goodness
gracious, yeah. I mean, there's all sort of
linkage between Kennedy and The Wizard of Oz, and especially

(07:49):
through Crowley's numeric system.
I mean, it's quite astounding. I mean, one of the things, I
mean, one of one of the things that's always present with these
tragedies is this interconnection with these
numbers. That's one thing.
But then you always find like a little Wizard of Oz link in

(08:09):
there. And that's probably the most
macabre aspect of all of this. Kennedy was very good friends
with Judy Garland, who of courseis Dorothy Gale and his fate,
one of his favorite songs was, of course, Over the Rainbow.
And she used to actually call him up and sing the song to him.
Probably not a good idea in hindsight, but it was what it

(08:29):
was. But yeah, I mean, I mean, with
like Kennedy himself, you know, I'd have to go back and look at
it. But of course he was killed.
One, one of the things that was interesting with him was right
before he passed away, right before his assassination, there
were these two card trading cardsets put out about Kennedy and

(08:50):
his life. And one card set contains 77
cards and the other set contain 42 cards.
And of course Kennedy was killedapproaching Route 77 in Dallas,
TX. Very interesting.
And of course was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald.
And of course Oswald invokes theWizard of Oz.
And of course, Lee Harvey Oswaldwas dispatched by the Ruby

(09:12):
Slippers, Jack Ruby. But that's one of the things
that makes this this this thing so interesting to examine is the
whenever you're looking at it, whenever I'm looking at it, it's
it's a system of numbers. But then always present will be
some sort of little Wizard of Ozcitation in there, whether it's

(09:32):
Columbine or Princess Diana, that that will always be in
there. That will always be present in
there somewhere somehow very, very mysterious.
Very. But Cobb and like I said, this
is really the subject matter of my new book and will definitely
be it's fleshed out even more. I've reached a point with it
where I can't look at it anymorebecause the book will never end.

(09:55):
So what I'm doing is I basically, I cut it off and like
any recent tragedies that come up, like the thing that happened
in New New Orleans, which is this thing is plastered with it.
I'm basically saving for cinema symbolism.
OZ, the stuff I have in four, I'm done.
I mean, like I said, if I was just to continue augmenting it,
my fear would be the book would never come to an end.
But you know, for for the Oz book, I'm definitely going to

(10:19):
add add some more material into it.
That's at least my intention now.
This is really fascinating and how you discovered it all too.
It's, it's incredible. Have you found any connections
between President Trump and The Wizard of Oz or #42 or 7 or 77
in any way? There is one of the things that

(10:39):
one of the things I will say in this I am keeping to myself
right now. I do not want to talk about this
is there is from what I can telland I'll tease it a little bit
is one of the things that I havedefinitely discovered is there
is no evidence of this curses existence or coming into effect
prior to 1939. Which is of course, when the
Wizard of Oz was released, of course, came out one of

(11:02):
Crowley's kill numbers, one of his bad luck numbers is the #7
and of course the Wizard of Oz was released on October, excuse
me, on August 25th, 1939. And naturally World War 2
started seven days later. Of course, one of the things
that's interesting with Trump ishe is constantly, you'll see

(11:23):
where I'm going with this. He is constantly referred to, as
you will see, Trump, Trump in the media, referred to as the
Wizard of Oz. You see this very frequently.
And this seems to be perplexing a lot of people.
I can tell you why. And it's because of his affinity
for the 25th president of the United States, which is William
McKinley. And McKinley, William McKinley

(11:45):
#25 was L Frank Baum's prototypefor the Wizard of Oz.
So, you know, Trump phrases McKinley all over the place.
I mean, McKinley was the tariff king.
And of course, this is where Trump emulates, you know,
impersonates McKinley with all his tariffs.
This is all coming from William McKinley, the Wizard of Oz.

(12:06):
Going back to what I said a moment ago, there is no evidence
that this I can find, no evidence of this curses purse
being active or kinetic prior to1939 except one thing.
And I'm not going to say what itis, but there is some very, very
bizarre things going around on around William McKinley, the

(12:26):
25th president. I don't think it's necessarily,
it seems to me because McKinley dies in 1901, Crowley doesn't
even receive the book of the lawuntil 1904.
So it's three years later. That said, there seems to be
some sort of like preview with McKinley with this curse that

(12:50):
sort of is forecasting what was going to happen over the next
100 years. I'm going to leave it at that.
It's quite remarkable. It's very bizarre.
And like I said, I I've, I've never really seen evidence of
this curse prior to 1939 except for this one thing.
And it does seem to be an example of this court curse

(13:13):
almost forecasting itself. And like I said, the thing
that's really kind of bizarre about it is this is even four
years before Crowley, you know, wrote the book of the law or
received the book of the Law in 1904.
Yet there is evidence to suggest, and I would say it's
quite persuasive, that some of the events surrounding William
McKinley, I'm going to leave it at that, Definitely seem to

(13:36):
forecast this, curses coming into effect, as it were.
That's interesting. We have a school here in Hawaii
that's named after him, I believe McKinley High School.
I don't remember the reason why,but yeah.
Odd. Yeah.
He, he's a very, he's a very influential United States
president. He's kind of one of the, for
whatever reason, he's kind of one of the more forgotten ones,

(13:57):
but he really shouldn't be the he is the prototype for the
Wizard of Oz without Frank Baum.And of course, this ties it to a
lot of the political allegories in the story where the Wizard
lives in the Emerald City, whichrepresents paper money.
McKinley was a big proponent of the gold standard to back paper,
you know, greenbacks. This is, of course, why the

(14:18):
yellow brick road leads to the creation of paper money or the
yellow brick road leads to Emerald City where McKinley
dwells. And of course, one of the things
that Trump did, I think he did in his first term, but I can't
recall, was they've changed the name of Mount McKinley in Alaska
to back to Denali. And I think changed then Trump
changed it back again recently. And Trump is a huge fan of

(14:39):
McKinley. And I would presume that is why
Trump is often referred to as the Wizard of Oz, as a allusion
to McKinley, who is sort of Trump's hero, as it were, when
it comes to the United States presidents.
Interesting. The last time I asked you about
Taylor Swift and whether she hadany connection to the Wizard of

(15:01):
Oz, you mentioned her numbers didn't look look good, but you
left us hanging at that. Have you ever?
Well, here's the one thing I'll say in this.
In my my opinion on this has sort of modified a little bit
over the last year is the one thing I would say is, and I'm
not sure why this is, I'm beginning to like there seems to

(15:23):
be two. There seems to be people who
flirt with this thing and get killed, but then there seems to
be other people out there. Taylor Swift is one of them.
There's some other people, the numbers are just absolutely
atrocious, yet seem to be immuneto this thing.
Taylor Swift is one of them. Anna Kendrick, the actress is

(15:43):
another one. There's another actress named
Karen Galan or Gulen who is in The Avengers movie.
I believe she played Nebula. My only best guess at this right
now is if my then there are other people out there like
Michael Jackson and Kobe Bryant whose numbers are atrociously

(16:04):
bad and Princess Diana is another one who wound up dead.
Why is it that some people seem to remain alive and some people
pass away and seem to be taken out by this thing?
The best guess or guesstimation that I can give you right now is
I don't know, but there seems tobe people out there that seem to

(16:25):
be selected to spread this thingaround for the purposes of
spreading it through pop cultureand spreading it.
Like you'd spread peanut butter on a slice of bread for a peanut
butter and Jelly sandwich. Who seems whose purpose seems to
be spreading it through pop culture like a virus.
And because that is their purpose unconsciously they seem

(16:45):
to be immune. They seem to be like unknown
agents of this thing, I guess isthe best way I can describe it,
because there are people out there that you know, whose
numbers are very, very bad, and yet they seem to be completely
not affected by this thing. My best guest illness is that
they seem to be agents of this thing, spreading it around.
That is the only thing. I mean, that is speculation on

(17:08):
my part. I will be the first to admit
that. But that seems to be the most
logical answer. And I look, you know, this thing
is very material and it's hard to tell when this thing will
strike next. I tried to predict it out based
on the way I've examined this thing and using numbers and math
and mathematics. I've tried to forecast this
thing. People have asked me this and

(17:28):
I've struck out with it because one of the things that makes
this thing so hard to forecast is you don't know if you're
dealing with 77 days, 77 weeks, 77 months, or even 77 years.
It is so hard to predict this thing, how it moves around with
that, I mean, Taylor Swift coulddie in a plane crash tomorrow.

(17:51):
And then I could say, oh, well, there it is.
You know, there is this thing striking.
I just don't know. Well, I mean, it's one of those
things time will have to tell. One of the things that is
without question that surrounds this thing is are these numbers.
These numbers must be present orit is not.
It is not this thing. I mean, not everything is the

(18:15):
death knell. I mean, this curse is there, but
it's not on everything. That said, these number, the
numbers 42, especially 77, you know, 333, it's a number that
pops up 7. These are our numbers that must
be there in some form or fashion.
If they are not there, it is notthis thing in action.

(18:41):
I and I think you're right. I mean, when this thing is
through with them, then that's when maybe something might
tragically happen. I mean, of course we don't know,
but we don't know. Yeah.
Interesting. Yeah, I could give you examples
of people that I thought would have been gone by now because
it's just so atrociously bad. Yet there they are.

(19:02):
And I've kind of come to the conclusion that this thing is
almost impossible to forecast out.
It is impossible to forecast out.
I can't do it. If someone else can, they can
give it a try and tell me how they're figuring it out.
I've tried fifty ways from Sunday to predict this thing.
I can't do it, but I know this. I know it when I see it.
I mean, and when you see it, I mean, the one thing that kind of
for me is if, if, if one of these numbers start popping up,

(19:25):
it's like a floodgate opening once I start examining it.
I mean, these numbers are just plaster plastered all over the
place with this thing in some form of fashion.
And that's like I said, one of the real harm or hallmarkers of
this thing is, is these this thethese numbers that turn up
surrounding these tragedies? You know, that's the real tell
of of this thing. Have you ever looked into Justin

(19:48):
Bieber or Sean P Diddy? None of them.
I've done nothing with them. The last thing that I looked at,
the last two things that I've been looking at, is a couple
things is, well, we had the Baltimore Bridge collapse here,
which was clearly this thing, and then we had that New Orleans
thing back that that's also affecting this thing.

(20:11):
That's all the last two I've been looking at.
I've watched some more movies because of course, the book is
ultimately about movie symbolism.
And one of the things I now do when I watch a movie, I now
watch it through a different lens.
I watch it through the lenses. I've watched it before for, you
know, esoteric themes or Gnosticism or alchemy.

(20:31):
I mean, I still do all that. One of the things now, I'm
always keeping my eyes out for Crowley in numbers and Wizard of
Oz tropes, and it is really amazing to me looking back now
how many movies are modeled after the Wizard of Oz.
Now granted, some of this is theJoseph Campbell monomyth, to be

(20:53):
fair. I mean, some of that is the
elements of the monomyth. But you will clearly see the
Wizard of Oz turning up in so many movies, ones that you may
not even have considered that are Wizard of Oz influenced.
I mean, just off the top of my head, I mean one of them is
Apocalypse Now by Francis Ford Coppola, where you have the

(21:15):
Martin Sheen character starting in the land of Oz in the strange
land, which is Vietnam. And then of course, he goes on
this adventure where he is aidedby eccentric characters and he
ultimately has to confront the green skin Colonel Kurtz, who is
both the wizard and the witch. Back to the Future, where Marty

(21:35):
McFly travels to a strange land where he meets doppelgangers
from the world that he knows, only to come back home and wake
up in his bed not knowing if it was a dream.
Interestingly, when he travels back in time, what's the first
thing he runs into? Scarecrow versus The first thing
Dorothy Gale runs into is her first companion is the Scarecrow

(21:56):
and Marty McFly winds up in the farmhouse, much like Dorothy
Gale's farmhouse in Kansas. Suspiria, the 1977 one with
Susie Banyan going to the strange land, the foreign land
where she of course goes on an adventure meet strange people
only to defeat a wicked witch. You will find the Wizard of Oz

(22:19):
very influential. It's a very influential movie
and again you will find it hidden in a lot of movies.
One of the ones again. Another one more recently was
the Cruella movie with with EmmaStone, where Emma Stone starts
out as a country bumpkin, goes to the big city, has the strange
adventure, you know, with companions, only to go on and

(22:41):
defeat, you know, the wicked witch archetype, which is the
Emma Thompson character. One of the things that was
interesting in that was when Cruella is having her or Stella
is having a birthday party, the friends steal her a cake and the
name on the cake is of course Judy, as in Judy Garland.
Very interesting. So no, you will.
One of the things now that I'm doing when I watch movies is I'm

(23:04):
always keeping my eyes peeled for Wizard of the Oz motifs and
Crowley and influence. Crowley and numbers turn up more
frequent than you will think. Wow, have you watched the new
Wicked? The new Wizard of Oz movie.
Of course. How did you like that?
Yeah. I mean, I mean, one of the
things going on in the Wicked movie, I mean, this is clearly I

(23:26):
mean, you know, this curse also spreads itself and uses pop
culture to move around with. One of the things, a couple
things was wicked that stand outwas if you watch the original
Wizard of Oz movie, this is the 1931 with Judy Garland.
You should notice two things almost immediately when she gets

(23:48):
to the Munchkin City at the beginning 1 is when the Wicked
Witch of the East is killed and Dorothy and excuse me Dorothy is
there and then the wicked witch Margaret Hamilton appears,
appears and then goes for the Ruby slippers and they
disappear. You will notice the witches, the
dead witches feet curl up and gounder the building and then you

(24:12):
will see the same symbolism minutes later with the start of
the yellow brick road which is the spiral.
The feet curling up in the startof the yellow brick road is the
Fibonacci spiral based on the Fibonacci sequence.
And the Fibonacci spiral signifies spiritual growth and
progression. So in the case of the Wizard of

(24:33):
Oz, it is symbolizing Dorothy's growth and quest for Gnosis,
which is of course her adventurewhere she winds up in the
Emerald City, where she comes to, she has her Gnostic
epiphany, where she comes to know herself.
For her, there's no place like home.
So the Fibonacci spiral at the very beginning of the Wizard of
Oz with the start of the yellow brick road and the witch's feet

(24:55):
curling up, that signifies symbolizes Dorothy's quest for
gnosis. If you Fast forward to Wicked,
when at the very beginning of it, when this is Ariana Grande
appears as Glyndide, she descends into Munchkin City.
If you pay attention to her pinkdress, that pink dress is also
the Fibonacci spiral and that isa throwback not only to the

(25:19):
Wizard of Oz, it's an allusion back to the 391939 film, but it
is also signifying the same thing, the spiritual quest of
both the Wicked Witch, which I guess is a fava.
Try pronouncing your name wrong.And then of course, the Linda
who becomes Glinda, same sort ofthing.
One of the things that I found very interesting in in Wicked

(25:44):
was the casting of Jeff Goldblumas the Wizard of Oz.
And the reason I say that is because of course the Wizard of
Oz of Oz is number 77, the goat of Mendez.
And of course Jeff Goldblum outside of this is probably no
sport known for his most famous movie, which was what Ian
Malcolm in Jurassic Park. What was in Malcolm in Jurassic

(26:07):
Park where he was the chaos theoretician?
Well, what is chaos theory say that within random events there
are hidden numbers, hidden patterns, hidden tropes.
I mean hidden, hidden geometric patterns, hidden symbolisms, or
veiled to the naked eye. So it's very interesting that
they would cast him as Oz, the goat of Mendez, the Wizard of Oz
number 77. And of course that is completely

(26:30):
designed to resurrect Ian Malcolm, because this curse
moves around in the exact same way as chaos theory.
These events that are seemingly unrelated are completely related
by subconscious patterns, numbers, repetition, sequencing,
things like that, that are the hallmarkers of chaos theory,

(26:52):
which of course is pretty much the domain of Baphomet and the
goat of Mendez. That's crazy.
I was going to ask you, my next question was in your research,
have you found any connections between Wizard of Oz and ancient
myths or mystery school teachings?
I have not, because from what I can tell, this thing doesn't

(27:14):
exist between before 1939. Except for this one thing.
I cannot find any evidence that this thing has any sort of any
sort of existence before 1939. There are things in the past
that are quite uncanny that seemto be predicting some of this

(27:35):
stuff out again. But I want to say, I mean, if
you say it doesn't relate to mystery school teachings, the
closest thing I would say to that is, I mean, this whole
thing is based on a system of gematria that is one of the key
components to decoding all of this.
I mean, which I guess would be coming out of the world of
Hebrew Kabbalah, which I guess would be the best way to

(27:56):
describe that is the Jewish mystery school.
So in that I guess in that vein,I would say yes, because the
assignment of numbers with letters is absolutely crucial to
figuring this thing out. That is crazy and and not to
change the subject, but I heard that there might be some links

(28:18):
between Freemasons and early Mormon church.
Is that true of? Course the Mormon Church.
The Mormon church was founded bythe Freemasons.
The founders of the Mormon church was Brigham Young and
Joseph Smith. Both of those guys were hardcore
Freemasons. The Mormon rituals are all all
come out of the world of Freemasonry.

(28:39):
I touch on it a little bit in mybook.
I am not a full blown expert on the Nexus between, you know,
what the Mormon rituals look like.
Suffice to say, yes, the Mormon church is basically an offshoot
of a cult Freemasonry, as it were, and the founders were both
Masons. So yes, a very heavy influence

(28:59):
of Freemasonry into the Mormon church.
Hey Ohana, I hope you're loving this conversation as much as I
am. I just wanted to pause for a
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If you're enjoying what you're hearing and feel like we've
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or review. Your honest feedback really

(29:20):
helps us grow and reach more people who love exploring these
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with them. Mahalanui Loyal for being part
of our journey. Now back to the show.
So. Yes, a very heavy influence of

(29:40):
Freemasonry into the Mormon church.
Interesting. I know that Brigham Young is
really like popular here. I guess in Hawaii we have
Mormons on the other side of theisland.
Brigham Young and the PolynesianCulture Center which is all part
of the Mormons. Interesting.

(30:02):
Yeah, and like I said, I'm not afull blown expert on it, but
yeah, there is definitely a Nexus between the Mormon church
and Freemasonry that's irrefutable.
Interesting. In your book Cinema, Cinema
Symbolism Too, you kind of explore Stanley Kubrick's and
The Shining and the alleged connections between the the moon

(30:24):
landing. Could you elaborate on that
symbolism? Sure, there is ample evidence to
suggest and believe me, it is not a conspiracy theory that
when the when Apollo 11 went to the moon in 69, the theory is
that they went to the moon, but they could not film there for
various reasons. They just did not have the

(30:45):
technology for this. The theory is, and I think it's,
I don't even call it a theory anymore, is that the NASA, the
government hired Stanley Kubrickto stage the moon landing
footage in a studio. Now there is, that is not to say
they did not go to the moon. They probably did go to the

(31:07):
moon. They just couldn't film there.
So they retained Kubrick and this is 1969.
I mean, this is when 2001 A Space Odyssey was just out.
And of course, it also done Strangelove.
And if you look at the moon landing footage, I mean, if you
look at those movies, you will see why they hired just because
of its cinematography. The idea that there's a couple

(31:30):
of things going on here. The the main, the main Nexus
with this is Cooper gives this away in the movie The Shining,
Hubert comes out and basically says, yeah, I'm the guy who
filmed the moon landing footage.And it's the scene in The
Shining where the little boy Danny is playing with the toys
on the carpet. And then he stands up and he has
the Apollo 11 sweater on. And then he goes into room 237.

(31:54):
Back in 1979 when The Shining was filmed, the distance from
the Earth to the moon was 230 seven, 100,000 miles.
So the idea is it's Apollo 11, Danny going to the moon by going
into it. And this is supposed to be 1 of
Kubrick's hip offs that he filmed the lunar footage.
There's a couple others that arethat are very interesting.

(32:16):
One is if you go back in time before The Shining, the the
movie The Kubrick made before The Shining was was Barry
Linden. This is a movie set in the
Napoleonic Wars. Kubrick was hell bent on filming
scenes by candlelight. You don't know how to make a
movie if you watch all black andwhite movies.

(32:37):
If you watch a scene that is by candlelight you will always see
a light coming in from off camera that illuminates it.
Because Simply put, candlelight cannot illuminate a scene.
It's not strong enough. So you will always see a light
coming in to illuminate it. If you watch a movie and they
blow the candlelight, you'll seethe light turn off right next to
it because, of course, the candles out.

(32:58):
So they kill the light that makes it darker.
Kubrick didn't want to do that. Kubrick wanted to film movies,
wanted to film some of these scenes by candlelight.
Believe it or not, NASA had actually developed a lens that
allowed you to do this. And Kubrick went to NASA and
they gave it to him, and they said, yeah, of course you can
use this lens to film your movie.
We asked the question why? And of course, that is because

(33:21):
Kubrick was a NASA employee. He'd worked for them, so NASA
was more than willing to allow him to use some of his land,
their lenses to film his movie. Barry Lyndon.
One of the other things that's very interesting that Kubrick
does, and I'm convinced this is intentional, is, and this one's
very well hidden. Kubrick goes out of his way to
hide this. And again, one of the things

(33:42):
that that film makers absolutelylove to do, I call it a cult
casting. It's probably more of the better
term is it's an art of memory trick.
What film makers love to do, as they love to retain actors and
place them in movies and they put them in the movie be to draw
on some sort of earlier movie like Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic

(34:02):
Park. It's not typecasting.
It's not like just casting Bela Lugosi over and over and over
again to play the boogeyman. It's more very subtle.
It's putting someone in a movie to draw forth an earlier work.
Kind of like creating a pop culture of valence, I guess is
the best way I can describe it. If you go back and watch the
well, let me let me back up a little bit.

(34:23):
If you go in back in time, the 1971 one of the the James Bond
movie that came out that year. This was the last one with Sean
Connery. This is the last official one
with Sean Connery. This is I know we made the one
in the early 80s called Never say never.
But the last official broccoli James Bond movie with Sean
Connery was Diamonds are Foreverand this came out in 1971.

(34:47):
There is a scene in that movie where Bond stumbles onto a
secret NASA base in the Nevada desert, which is obviously
supposed to be Area 51, and they're filming the moon
landing. They've got guys in suits
jumping around and James Bond kind of accidentally stumbles
into them filming staging the moon landing footage.

(35:09):
Kubrick must have seen this and knew what was up.
And I got to tell you something,this must have been one of the
worst kept secrets in Hollywood with Kubrick with this in The
Shining, what he does to furtherreference this, if you watch the
scene at the beginning of The Shining where Jack Nicholson is
being interviewed by Stuart Ullman.

(35:29):
Stuart Ullman, well, what, what,what I'm getting at is Kubrick
clearly wanted to reference thatJames Bond movie.
He clearly wanted to reference James Bond in The Shining to
further tip people off. And he does that by casting
Barry Nelson as Stuart Ullman, who is, of course, the guy who
hires Jack Nicholson, this is Jack Torrance, to watch the

(35:50):
Overlook Hotel during the wintermonths.
Barry Nelson is the first actor to play James Bond.
A lot of people, if you ask them, they say, who was the
first actor to say play James Bond?
The immediate name that's going to pop into their head is, of
course, Sean Connery, who was not who was actually Barry
Nelson Stuart Ullman himself. Back in the 1950s, they made ATV

(36:11):
movie based on Casino Royale, where Orson Welles was LA Schiff
and Barry Nelson actually playedJames Bond.
So by putting Barry Nelson in The Shining, that is a clear
illusion. Very circuitous to Diamonds Are
Forever to James Bond to that movie where Kubrick is clearly
saying, yeah, I'm aware of that with with the moon landing.

(36:35):
I'm referencing James Bond because the last 2nd to last
James Bond movie that came out had a guy, James Bond going into
the secret base, the secret sound stage where they're
filming the moon landing. The other, and like I said, the
other movie that kind of referenced this and it's a right
around that same time frame is Being There with Peter Sellers.
Peter Sellers was one of StanleyKubrick's favorite actors.

(36:58):
She cast them in not only Strangelove, but he was also in
Lolita. And if you watch the movie Being
There, there's of course the scene where Peter Sellers is
standing there in front of the video store and it's all the
moon footage. It's all the the entire
storefront is the lunar surface.And Peter Sellers is playing
around. And of course they have the
Stanley Kubrick 2001 Alzo Spracht Zarathustra music

(37:22):
playing. Again, that is a clear reference
to Kubrick with Peter Sellers and that music playing and that
entire video store being the lunar surface.
Again insinuating that yeah, Kubrick is the guy who filmed
the lunar footage again. This must have been one of the
worst kept secrets in Hollywood.You also mentioned The Smurfs.

(37:46):
Could you talk a little bit about that and their symbolism
and the and and the hidden, I guess the hidden symbolism in
the show? Right.
Well, The Smurfs are a a play. This is something I actually
talked about in my first book. The Smurfs are a play on
communism and socialism. The Smurfs represent the perfect

(38:08):
communistic socialist society. I mean, it's the whole Karl Marx
doctrine, doctrine of whatever it is, each to their own, to
their own abilities. And that whole line, I have it
in the book, I just can't recallit.
But I mean, all The Smurfs, theyall dress alike.
They all live in hovels. They all live rent free.
They all, I mean, there's no illness, there's no police
station, there's no hospital. I mean, if you're familiar with

(38:29):
the communist doctrine, it's allis born out of the utopianists
of the 16th and 17th century. I mean, and this is of course,
why communism will never work. I mean, if you were familiar
with socialist and communist doctrines, they will tell you
that the biggest I'll in the world is capitalism.
And this is of course the division of wealth.

(38:51):
They will tell you that this, that this division, capitalism
is the response. This is what a lot of people
don't understand today when we when people talk about this in
the pure socialist world, in thepure communist world, are there
any hospitals? No, because no one gets sick.
Because in communism there's no more illness, because that all

(39:14):
disappears with capitalism. Say there's no police, because
there's no more crime. I mean, this is the way it is in
The Smurfs. I mean, if you watch it, there's
no hospitals, there's no police,there's no army.
Why? Because it's perfect, perfected
communism. All that disappears, Mark says.
When you get rid of communist, when you get rid of capitalism,
basically there's no more illness, there's no more

(39:35):
sickness, there's no more wars. People will live forever.
It's a utopia. It's, it's a utopian state.
Of course you look at, you know,Papa Smurf, I mean, he looks
like Karl Marx. He's clearly modeled after them.
He wears the red, the red, you know, the red costume of the
communist. This is of course coming from
the Phrygian. I mean, where's the Phrygian

(39:56):
cap? This is of course coming from
the French Revolution. Who are your proto Marxist?
So you have the entire idea of The Smurfs being this perfected
communist, socialist society. And then of course you have
their arch enemy, which is of course Gargamel, who you can
look at one of two ways. You can look at him as the arch

(40:16):
enemy of The Smurfs, either being the West, the Western
civilization, capitalism, one ofthe things that to his alchemy
trying to transmute base metal into gold.
And of course this represents capitalism, wealth, wealth
accumulation. Or you can look at Gargamel as
Nazi Germany and that he is he always dressed in black is kind

(40:36):
of the sinister character. One of the things that's
interesting with The Smurfs is and you will find this in in I
believe the comic books. I don't think it appeared in the
TV show. Was the whole idea of Smurfette.
A lot of people aren't aware of this.
Smurfed is probably outside of Frankenstein's monster, the most
famous kabbalistic golem in pop culture.

(40:59):
Smurfed was created from a lump of clay by Gargamel using
kabbalistic black magic to imbuea lump of clay with human
personality. This is much akin to
Frankenstein, Monster, Blade Runner, Roy Batty artificial
intelligence. Any sort of artificial life that
acts like a human is, of course,essentially what you would call

(41:21):
a capitalistic golem or even a hermetic statue that comes out
of the works of Hermes Trismegistus.
At any rate, he sends Gargamel, creates Smurfed, and his whole
purpose is to send her into Smurf Village, to reign havoc,
to undermine the communist society.
And she does it first. And if you actually look at
early drawings of her, she lookslike Frankenstein's monster.

(41:43):
I mean, she has the flat forehead, the springy black
hair. But of course, Papa Smurf, being
the white magician that he is, catches on to this and then
casts a spell, a white magic spell, turning Smurfette into
the Smurfette that we all know and love, with the white high
heels and the little white dress.
So again, the whole thing is magic, sorcery, communism,

(42:05):
capitalism. A lot going on in a children's
TV show, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Yeah. That's interesting.
I've never seen it like that before.
That is really interesting. Many people say that there's
hidden symbols or or say that hidden symbols can act as kind
of a trigger or key. Do you believe that there's

(42:28):
symbols in the film that can affect people subconsciously?
I guess. It's possible.
It's it's not. So people ask me about
subliminal messaging. That's not allowed in cinnamon.
There's no reason to do that. What subliminal messaging was
was product placement. They would hide advertising in

(42:50):
it that that's, that's out. They don't do that anymore.
What they do now is they just put the product in the movie.
So I mean, if you're Coca-Cola and you want to get Coca-Cola
into a movie, you just put Coca-Cola in it.
You pay the movie makers a certain amount of dollar dollars
and your hero will be drinking aCoke instead of a Pepsi.
So subliminal messaging in film doesn't really need to exist.

(43:13):
But yeah, I mean, are there, I mean, are there archetypal
images and characters in movies that draw the subconscious mind
to it like a moth to a flame? Yeah.
I mean, of course. I mean, look at some of the
biggest Hollywood blockbusters, The Lord of the Rings, The
Matrix movie, Star Wars. I mean, this is these are the
same stories told over and over again.

(43:33):
I mean, it's the story of the sun, you know, the, the, the
solar hero, Jesus Christ, as it were.
It's the same thing. You have this character who is
nobody, who is plucked from being a nobody and put on some
sort of Mystic quest to go and defeat some dark, sinister
overlord somewhere. You can call this character Luke

(43:54):
Skywalker. You can call this character Neo.
You can call this character Frodo Baggins.
You can call this character Mithras.
You can call this character Horus.
You can call this character Jesus Christ.
It is all the exact same thing. It is the story of the sun and
its journey through the Zodiac, and ultimately how the sun

(44:16):
defeats darkness, the nighttime sky in the morning, and then
we'll come again to constantly do battle with darkness.
It is the oldest story of them all.
Interesting. So from your viewpoint, why do I
guess secret societies or even Hollywood even bother putting
hidden meetings into movies? What's what's their point?

(44:39):
So the point of doing? This is it's augmentation of the
film. So by placing stuff into it and
hidden codes and meanings, you can convey different things.
But it is no different than Da Vinci encoding meanings into his
paintings. It is a form of subconscious
elevation. It heightens the movie.

(45:01):
It turns celluloid into a religious or mystical experience
is essentially what the purpose of it is.
On one level. Can it convey hidden meanings?
And like I said earlier, this whole thing with Aleister
Crowley and this thing's it it, it is definitely present in pop
culture. Whether it's conscious or

(45:22):
subconscious is debatable, but you will find a lot of things
sequencing in pop culture with this curse and with Crowley's
numbers that is irrefutable. There is no question that one of
this curses mechanisms or maybe that's not the right word, but

(45:45):
modes of operation is pop culture because a lot of things
in pop culture sync with this curse.
I mean, and like, you know, even, I mean, we've talked about
it before. I've talked about a million
times how movies can be prophetic.
I've taken a bit of a different horse on this now where I mean
you it it, it really has to be looked at an individual basis.

(46:06):
Where is it, you know, like whatCarl Jung talked about or
Emmanuel Schwettenberg, where it's just prophetic
asynchronicity? I think a lot of the 9/11
prophecy now in pop culture is asupernatural event.
I believe this is coming completely out of the world, the
supernatural, and is manifestingfrom, you know, this dark force

(46:28):
as it were. Best way I can describe it right
now. Wow, wow.
Have you noticed any overlaps between Masonic or esoteric
ideas and religions like Catholic or even newer religions
like Scientology? Do they have any overlap?
Well, right they do, because. The entire Masonic ritual in the

(46:49):
third degree is designed to expose religion as what it is.
It's just the story of the sun. I mean, the, the, the third
degree Masonic ritual is a retelling of the Christ story,
the murdered and resurrected son.
I mean, this is, you will find this in Christianity.
You will find elements of this in Judaism, Islam.

(47:10):
I mean, all the world's religions are based on one
thing, the movement of the sun through the heavens and the
tracking through the stars. That is it.
I mean, all the characters coming out of religious texts,
Jesus, Moses, these characters, they are all personifications of
the sun and its interaction withdifferent constellations and the

(47:33):
stars. That is every religion currently
on planet earth. And that is essentially what
Masonic teaching is trying to expose because it's the same
thing. I mean, you have the character
in the third degree of here. I'm a Biff who of course
personifies the sun. There are numerous solar
references, too many to talk about who is murdered and

(47:53):
resurrected. And again, you will find this in
movies. I mean, you know, Harry Potter
is the sun God. You know, the Death Eaters are,
you know, the, you know, you know, what's his name Vortemat
or whatever his name is, is, is the devil.
I mean, Harry Potter is killed and resurrected.
Neo is killed and resurrected. I mean, wherever we've all seen

(48:14):
this before, it's just, you know, the same thing being
repackaged and rebranded. It's these archetypal images
coming from the heavens above, which if you are familiar with
the world of the occult, this iswhere the archetypes come from,
is the heavens, the stars, the planets.
The idea is that when a soul descends from the aroma or

(48:37):
whatever you want to call it, and descends to Earth, it passes
through these kabbalistic hermetic spheres governed by the
moon, the sun, Jupiter. The stars.
And these archetypes that are that these planets and they
stars represent, are embedded then into the subconscious mind.
That's why we all recognize them.
I mean, like I said, you know, Luke Skywalker is the sun,

(48:57):
Princess Leia is the moon, call her Diana, Artemis, whatever you
want. You know that you have the, the,
the dark evil overlord, Pluto, Saturn, these are all archetypes
coming from the heavens above. And Hollywood knows that and
they know how to use them. And again, This is why cinema is
such a popular meeting medium, if not the most influential

(49:21):
medium that's ever been created,because it's rebranding,
Rebranding these archetypal images that the human soul is
literally hooked on, like, drawnto, like a moth to flame.
That said, yeah. Do movies encode different
meanings, numbers, symbolisms? I mean, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, if you get a sophisticated filmmaker like

(49:41):
Arie Astor or, you know, Kubrickor Alfred Hitchcock, David
Lynch, Yeah. I mean, these guys are experts.
I mean, these guys are Da Vinci,like, experts when it comes to
encoding things into their films.
No question about it. That is totally irrefutable.
Wow. I didn't know.

(50:02):
Freemason. I guess their purpose is kind of
exposing these elements, like maybe, maybe it's not.
Exposing because they don't talkabout it.
But I mean, when you go through the ritual, I mean, this is what
all the, all the guys like Albert Pike and Manly Hall say
is, is, is, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's these rituals
are encoding these hidden truths.
But the problem is they don't tell you it's you have to go sit

(50:25):
in a library and read like, you know, these voluminous works
that we'll, we'll talk about allthis, but just for the average
guy going through the large rituals, it will be unknown to
them. I mean, the whole thing with
the, I mean, I get into this ad nauseam in my first book.
I mean, the whole, the whole Masonic ritual was based on the
Osirian, you know, murdered by typhoon, resurrected by ISIS

(50:50):
storyline. And of course, that entire, you
know, murdered and resurrected sun God story is the entire
template for Christianity. I mean, it parallel parallels it
almost exactly. I mean, instead of the Virgin
Isis, you have the Virgin Mary. Instead of a Horus, you have
Jesus. I mean, even the names are
almost the same, for God's sakes, you know?

(51:11):
And again, if you're interested in that, then I would definitely
direct you to my first book, TheRoyal Arch of Enoch.
Yeah. Yeah, it's good.
I. Believe in that book you explore
how the Masonic rituals incorporates elements from the
Book of Enoch, which was considered lost, I think until
the 18th century. Well, right, that's sort of the.
Thesis, that's one of the thesisthesai.

(51:33):
I don't know if that's the rightword.
Thesis is I guess is probably the better word of the book.
I mean, one of the things that Ipresent is, is that the book of
Enoch, this is 1 Enoch was lost from around the 2nd 3rd century
up until I think it's about. I haven't talked about this God
in so long up until I think it'saround 17801780 something or

(51:56):
another. And it's not even translated
into English until the early 19th century.
Yet the Masonic ritual that is developed in Paris, France in
the 1740s, seventeen 50s by the Jesuits is clearly incorporating
elements of one Enoch that is irrefutable.

(52:16):
And again, the thesis of one of the thesis of the book is that
clearly there must have been a copy of one Enoch floating
around Europe that the Masons orsome of the Jesuits got hold of.
Whether this belong to John D, which I would say is highly
likely came out of a Vatican library.
Gillian Pastel is another likelycandidate.
Absolutely. These are all possibilities for

(52:38):
this. But there was clearly a copy of
that book floating around Europe, or at least a highly
detailed summary of it. Interesting.
I think you I've heard you talking.
Is it in Russian? Is that the other language you
speak? I do not speak Russian.
What do you speak well? You are referring to an.
Interview that I do with a second mine who is a.

(52:59):
Russian. Yeah, he is a Russian
counterpart of mine. We do the interviews in English,
but he then dubs them in Russian.
And I am very, very popular in the Ukraine and Russia and
Belarus and Azikistan. No, he dubs them in Russian.
He's sort of my kind of like Russian counterpart.
Yeah. I do not speak Russian, but he

(53:19):
has a Russian translator dubbed them over.
Oh my God, it's just. Incredible.
Yeah, I, I listen to a lot of those and I, I think it's
fascinating. I, I was going to say I didn't
know you spoke very well. Russian.
No, they're they're they're they're.
They're. Dubbed.
You should be able to find out there the English versions of
them. He does release the English
versions, but he also does release the Russian versions,

(53:42):
and those usually get a lot morehits because, you know, because
of, you know, Ukraine, Russia. I think a lot of his audience is
Russian, Ukrainian, Belarus, places like that.
Yeah. Interesting.
That's really. Cool.
So you do that on a weekly base with him?
No, no, no, no, no. No, no, this is done like every
couple months with him. Basically I just check in.

(54:05):
I I haven't, I haven't done one with him prior in some time.
It's Vadim. Vadim Shegelov is is his name
and I haven't done, I haven't been on with him for quite
probably about a year now. It's been I, I have.
What's funny is after your show,I have a show booked for I I'm
pretty busy this month with withshows, people, people.

(54:26):
It's really becoming popular talking about this Wizard of Oz
stuff. I have to be.
Honest with you, I have backed off of it a little bit.
I don't mind previewing and I don't mind talking about it a
little bit. But the reason I have backed off
of it a little bit is because I have been getting emails from
people saying, hey, you know, what book is this in?

(54:46):
I'm really interested in readingabout it.
And of course, the book unfortunately is not yet to be
released. So once the book is released,
then, yeah, I mean, I'll come onany show you want and talk about
this fifty ways from Sunday. I mean, we do 2-3 hours, kind of
like holding it back a little bit until the.
Absolutely. Of course.
Well, before we conclude, Robert, could you share with our

(55:07):
listeners where they can find you and delve deeper into your
work and stay updated with all your upcoming projects?
Absolutely so. The easiest place to find me and
purchase my books. All the books are available on
all the major online websites Amazon, Barnes and Noble
books-a-million. You can get them all there no
problem. There are me if you want to find

(55:29):
me. I do not have any social media.
Just go to my website which is www.robertwsullivananditsthenumber44.com,
robertwsullivan4.com. From there you can find the
show's podcast I've done. They will be posted there, links
to purchase the books, information about me,
information about my books, upcoming shows that I'm doing.

(55:52):
It is an incredibly easy websiteto navigate
www.robertwsullivan4.com And again, Royal Arts Cinema
Symbolisms books 1233, packed with the devil.
These books are all available onall the major retailers, Amazon,
Barnes and Noble books-a-million.
You can get the print or the e-book version, the Kindle, what

(56:12):
have you. Again,
www.robertw4wsullivan4.com and it's the #4.com very easy site
to navigate. And yeah, that's the easiest way
to find me. Awesome.
And I think. You talked before anyway that
you may be having a tarot card coming out.
Is that still in works? That's that's one of my.

(56:34):
Future my future projects. That's one's a little ways off
still, though. Well, that sounds really
interesting too, to be honest. Well, no.
Thank you so much for coming back onto the show and sharing
your knowledge with us. Every time we talk, you really
just open up layers that most people don't even realize are

(56:55):
there. And I know my listeners are
really going to love what we talked about, and you've
definitely given them much to ponder on.
I really appreciate it again, and I hope you come back again.
I hope it's not going to be another year, but maybe if I
have to wait for your book, hopefully.
Hopefully by the next time I come on, Cinema Symbolism 4 will

(57:16):
come out and we'll do, like I said, just shows on The Wizard
of Oz and Aleister Crowley and all that good stuff.
Yes, that sounds. Fantastic, I can't wait and I
will be reaching out again. Yep, absolutely.
I got your e-mail. Here.
So I'll find you. And that brings us.
To an end of another episode, I want to thank my special guest,

(57:36):
Robert W Sullivan the 4th, for sharing his knowledge and
helping us peel back the layers of hidden meanings that surround
us. There's always more to explore
and I'm grateful he came back onthis show to give us deeper
insights. And to my amazing listeners,
thank you. Thank you again for subscribing,

(57:56):
for commenting, for sharing these episodes with people you
love. A huge mahalo to those who have
supported me on Patreon and buy me a coffee.
You keep this show alive. And if you haven't yet, please
be sure to follow me on Patreon where you can get all these
episodes of commercial free. So until the next time, guys,

(58:17):
keep your mind open, trust your gut.
Pay attention to what's hidden in plain sight.
Until the next time, wake up home.
Bye. I have swung too far, I can't

(58:52):
focus. You say who you are and I've
noticed. If I fall apart, could you
oldest? You got me digging way too deep
in the feelings and I'm over here looking for all the
reasons. So if you're going to stick

(59:15):
around and if you plan to hold me down, be patient, 'cause I'm
finding down, then I might need you.
Yeah, don't want to mess up. I can't lose you.
I can't get enough and I'm goingto get my heart.
Right by myself. Matter of fact, you might just

(01:00:02):
be surprised. So if you're going to stick
around and if you plan to hold. Me down be.
Patient 'cause I'm finding out that I might need you, yeah.
I can't get along and I'm going to keep

(01:00:47):
my heart.

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Episode 134. The Curse of Oz II: JFK, Kubrick, and the Mystery of 42 & 77 | Robert W. Sullivan IV

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 134. The Curse of Oz II: JFK, Kubrick, and the Mystery of 42 & 77 | Robert W. Sullivan IV