November 29, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode, Patti Katter interviews Gabe Wren, a former Marine, Army, and Air Force veteran. They discuss Gabe's military experiences and the humorous stories that came from his time in service. The conversation then takes a more serious turn as they discuss the topic of suicide, particularly among veterans. Gabe shares his own struggles with suicidal thoughts and the importance of reaching out for help. They emphasize the need for open discussions about mental health and the impact it can have on individuals and their loved ones. The episode provides a raw and honest look at the challenges faced by those dealing with thoughts of self-harm, and the ways in which community, faith, and support can make a difference.
Key Takeaways: - Gabe's military experiences and the camaraderie he shared with fellow service members - The identity crisis and loss of purpose that can occur when transitioning out of the military - The prevalence of suicidal thoughts and the importance of seeking help - The impact of suicide on families and the need for open conversations - The role of faith, community, and reaching out to others as sources of support This episode touches on sensitive topics related to mental health and suicide. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional help if they or someone they know is struggling with suicidal thoughts.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello everybody. You're listening to Wake Up with
Patty Katter and I have Gabe on my show again.
Gabe Wren. He was on last week and we are
going to, I would say finish up but I have a feeling he might be
on again. I feel like this is going to be
a long process here. We we keep diving into more and
more subjects. I know it.
It's crazy. The only other person that I did
(00:22):
consecutive podcasting with was Adam Byrd on the Decision Hour.
We got a show together for, I don't know, a good year, at
least maybe two years. I've done that show a couple
times with him. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's a good
egg. Yeah, we did that one in
Pennsylvania at the NRA show, The Great American Show.
Last year we did one. Oh, that's funny.
(00:43):
He invited me to that. That would have been crazy.
If we all were there, I think wewould have gotten into some
major, major shenanigans. Oh, shenanigans for sure.
Yeah, no doubt. Anytime Adam and I are around
those shenanigans. Happen.
Oh my gosh, yeah. You wouldn't think so because
you you know he walks in in a suit that doesn't mean a thing.
Not at all, no. Yeah, we did that one.
(01:05):
We did it from the booth becauseI have a friend that has a gun
company I used to work for and now I now I just kind of help
him out every year. And so every February I'm in
Pennsylvania at that show. I've been there for years and
years. Interesting.
And there's a red carpet event that we're going to have in
Lancaster for the Flipping Palm show, and that's going to be
(01:25):
happening in February as well. I'm going to try to put the
dates in line so that I can justgo from there to there.
Oh yeah, I mean, you have to go from a farming show to a gun
show to. I mean, it just makes sense.
We're at the Farm Show Complex. Yeah.
So you know. Yeah, yeah.
So I have a couple questions foryou.
OK. First of all, have you ever
(01:46):
heard of the immortal jellyfish?No.
Is this a real thing? I need to look this up.
Hold. On, it's a real thing.
Hold on, I'm looking this up. It's a real thing.
Jellyfish. OK.
Yeah, so beats me how I actuallycame across it except, well, I
kind of remember. Yeah, I was looking up immortal
things because I was going to bea bit better for Halloween again
(02:09):
for the 100th time. But I decided against it, and I
found that there was a immortal jellyfish.
Which brings me to the question,if you could be immortal, would
you want to be? Well, interesting question
because I do believe we are, whether it's this life or the
next, we are immortal. Our soul is immortal.
(02:30):
It's not. We're not physically immortal
here on this Earth. But if I could be physically
immortal, I don't think I would be.
I mean, I think I'm actually looking forward to like, what's
next? Yeah, yeah, that too.
Because I mean, really, if you have to be in the same place,
like you can only go around the world so many times, it's really
not right so. It would be cool to see like the
(02:51):
evolution of history, though, you know, like to be a party to
the birth of America and, and that, you know, all the things
that's happened in our country at least, you know, and even
going back as far as, you know, 2000 BC to, to see everything
that's transpired through history.
That would be kind of cool. That's true as long as you could
(03:11):
be a certain age. Like I wouldn't want to be an
immortal 200 year old that look like a 200 year old.
Right, right now you'd have to be like, you know, somewhere mid
midlife I think would be a good spot.
Yeah, I feel like I'm in a good spot now.
Yeah, I I wouldn't want to be a kid again and be immortal, and I
wouldn't want to be older and beimmortal.
(03:32):
I think that midlife range whereyou kind of know better and
you've got all this experience behind you is a good spot to be.
Yeah, I agree. You know, I, I thought I'd start
out with this question just because, first of all, I can get
a little weird, but secondly, because we left off on this
question of last week, what was your death fear, Right?
(03:53):
Oh, I have, I have a new one andI forgot about it last week, but
it is. But it's it's a part of the
buried alive bit. But do you ever watch these guys
caving and like, they're like, there's like this much room and
they're like on their face and they're like.
Yeah. Right.
Nah, no thanks. That's that's that's another
one. It's that guy that went down
with all those buddies and they went to go back for him and then
(04:16):
they couldn't find him and he just died a slow death, like
over days and days and days stuck and he couldn't do
anything to get out. It was just.
Like trapped like this much roomto where you can't move your
head or anything. It's like being just pinned down
the whole time. And if you've ever done
wrestling, I don't know if you have, you know, that feeling of
(04:37):
being pinned down and you just can't get up.
And like after a while you're like, OK.
Like WWE or WWEWWF? Yeah, I don't know.
No, I actually did. I was.
I did freestyle wrestling in high school, so.
But yes, no, I understand that. I didn't have any older
siblings, but I have a younger sister so I did most of the
holding down growing up, so. So yeah.
(05:00):
I bet you were a handful. I, you know, if, if it, if I'd
have grown up now, the school system probably would have
pumped me full of medication, you know, like I was all boy all
the time and you know, they justdealt with me.
But, you know, I know it's I was, I was, I was a handful.
I got so funny story, 22 funny stories.
(05:24):
I got kicked out of band in junior high.
Yeah, I know. And and then the other one was I
got suspended in junior high as well in 6th grade for mooning
the class. So yeah, yeah.
And and that's actually how I got removed from band as well.
(05:46):
So it's a bit of a trend. They're in the 6th, 7th and 8th
grade where I found that hilarious.
I guess so. Oh my God, I never mooned
anybody but my friend, my frienddid.
We were in I think probably like8th or 9th grade, like in school
still like way back in the day. And my friend's father was the
(06:11):
Township supervisor and I won't say the name of the town, but he
had a lot of friends who were police officers and he would
work third shift sometimes because he'd go in when they
were working third shift at the Police Department and he'd just
go talk to his buddies or whatever.
And his her mom was gone one time to a vacation.
(06:32):
Anyways, we were outside at, I don't know, two, 3:00 in the
morning, like run around her yard.
She had an amazing yard. It had like a big trampoline and
stuff. And for some crazy reason, she's
like, come on, let's go hide in the ditch and scare the car that
goes by. And I was like, no, 'cause we're
going to get in trouble. And she's like, OK, I'm going to
moon him. So I was like, OK, so I'm hiding
(06:52):
down in the ditch with her. And she really didn't, I really
didn't think she would do it. But it happened to be the police
car that happened to have. Yeah.
Didn't it ride alone? That's hilarious.
That reminds me of that movie. I think it was called Dirty
Work. And like, it's really funny.
There's a scene in there. I think it's from the 90s or
late or early 2000s, but they're, they're driving down
(07:15):
the road and the guy's like, oh,right here, right here, right
here. And so the guy, you know, he
gets his, get his drawers down and he goes ready to, you know,
put his butt on the glass. And so he does.
And they start, he starts honking his horns so everybody
will look. And then he just pulls over and
parks right in front of everybody and gets out.
And his buddy's like getting out.
He's like he was, he was supposed to keep going, supposed
(07:36):
to keep going. It was really funny.
Man, oh man. So you we talked about your
military experience last week. Oh.
Yeah. Marine Corps, Army, Air Force,
tell us a funny story from that time because I know there's got
to be a ton of and I totally putyou on the spot.
I probably should have prepped. You no, no, there there's a
bunch of there's a bunch of great stories.
(07:58):
So 2 two of my favorites actually, that I still probably,
you know, I, I still tell to this day.
One is 1 was a buddy of mine whowas we, we lost him a little
while back. His name was Dennis Jenkins and
he was, when I got to my first duty station, he was my corporal
and I was APFC at the time and then promoted to Lance Corporal.
(08:20):
But he was my corporal and I wasan MP when I first went in the
Marine Corps. And so I got there and I checked
in and, and Jenkins and I, we had built this really great
relationship, this bond, because, you know, he was in
charge of me and I looked up to him.
And so we had this great relationship.
It was me, Dennis Jenkins, a guynamed Terrence Brown, who is out
of Chicago now, and Sergeant Seaward.
(08:43):
And those guys were kind of like, they were like the guys
that, you know, when I first gotthere.
So anyway, Jenkins and I are he's the road supervisor one
night and this is now probably ayear and a half into the base.
And so we're really close. And we had these training
bottles of pepper spray that like we would use for training.
(09:04):
And so, so this, this guy came up to the gate from the pizza
place. I don't know what it was back
then, Papa John's or something, you know, and, and so he comes
up and, and he's, you know, theyhave to stop at the gate And I'm
like, hey, where you headed? And he goes, oh, I've got a,
I've got an order at the, it says, I think it was building 1
or PMO building or whatever. He said, and I said, who's it
(09:25):
for? And he said, looks like Sergeant
Jenkins. And I was like, oh, let me see
that thing. And I opened up, you know, to
verify there's not any kind of bomb or contraband in it.
And I just gave it a little and closed it and, and sent it on
the way, you know, and about, I don't know, maybe less than 10
minutes. I see lights and siren.
(09:47):
I see lights and hear sirens. And Jenkins is flying from
behind. He's back there.
And I see the reflection, of course, in the glass in the
building. This is like we're probably ten,
11:00 at night or later. And, and the basement for the
most part is, is shut down. It's a base that's not existing
anymore. It's called Tustin.
It was out in California, real famous for the hangers and that
(10:08):
it one of them just burnt down recently.
So Jenkins comes flying up and he turns a car around, gets out
and he's his eyes and his nose and everything just like he's
just dying, right? Like he just hemorrhaging snot
and water. Everything's just happening to
his face. And he gets you think you're
funny, huh? You think you're funny?
(10:29):
And he starts making me do push ups, right.
And we had a, a relationship outside of work, but we also had
that corporal, Lance Corporal relationship at that time.
And so I, I burnt that line a little bit.
And so he comes out there and hestarts making me do push ups and
I do push ups for like, I don't know, a solid hour.
But the whole time I was pushing, he was just crying, you
(10:51):
know, and like just just destroyed and waving traffic and
we were laughing, I mean, the whole time, but he was trying to
be serious and, and it was, it was a, it was a lot of fun.
I miss that guy all the time. He was, he was one of the good
ones. So that's one.
I'm surprised he didn't shoot you with the pepper spray.
Oh no, he got me back later on. So we had this other gag where
(11:15):
we would, you know, the militaryas you, as you know from all
these conversations, I'm sure isa lot of goofing off when
there's downtime, right. And so we were pre war.
I mean, we're talking this is 1998, right?
There was nothing going on. And so a lot of shenanigans, you
know, a lot of goofing around, alot of brotherhood, you know,
(11:36):
being explored. And he got me back.
There was you take a a Taco Bellsauce packet and you cut a small
slit in one side, put the straw in, stick it back down in the
cup. You know, I haven't heard that
one. Oh, yeah, No, it works really
well. It's really good.
It's a really good one. Let's.
Get Adam Bird on that one. Well, he's going to see this.
Maybe let's see if he really watches that.
(11:57):
You guys OK. I doubt he will.
I doubt he will. He says he doesn't like your
show anyway. So because.
I'm doing better now, I'm just joking.
Wow. I love Adam.
Yeah, no, but so, yeah. So he got me back that way.
But we, we, we constantly, you know, for years played games
with each other and just we, we,we were at that duty station.
And then we both went to Miramar, the next duty station.
(12:20):
And then, you know, 2001 came around and, and I think he got
out just before me and then I got out after him.
And then we kind of kept in contact for a number of years.
And it's been, I think almost 10years now since he he died.
But a super great guy. I mean, just one of those guys
I'd look back fondly on in the Marine Corps.
And, and yeah, so that's one guy.
(12:42):
That's one funny story. You want another one or you want
me to stop? Yeah, I love these stories from
the 1900s. Oh wow, the 1900s.
OK, well, let me take you into the, the modern era, into the
2000s. So 2001.
Yeah. So there's a a kid that I work
with, he's a younger guy, same, same kind of a situation.
(13:05):
He works for me. I'm the corporal now.
He's the Pfc, the Lance Corporal.
And he failed a field day inspection on his barracks room.
And so of course that falls on me, right.
So that's my fault now. And I ended up I ended up having
him he lived on the 2nd floor. I would have him take all of his
(13:27):
stuff down to the to the bottom deck.
And so he, and then he would have to clean his entire room,
put it all back and call me and this one on all night.
Like every couple hours, every hour I'd get a phone call, I'd
drive up to the base, I'd check his room, I'd inspect it, find
something wrong with it intentionally and then I'd leave
and make him do it again. We did this all night all night.
(13:49):
And what's really interesting about that is that's a cool
story because that guy just reached out to me a week ago and
I haven't talked to him since probably 2001 or more.
Maybe we connected once or twiceover the years, but it's been a
long, long time, probably 20 years at least.
And we had that conversation. And he's actually in the the
(14:09):
film industry now. His name is Reed Carpenter.
And he's just, he's killing it. He's doing some great stuff.
And so we, you know, we formed abond way back then.
And he calls me up. He's like, hey, man, I want to
work with you. Let's do something.
And so now we're exploring opportunities together.
So cool dude, but. Yeah, that's always good when
somebody that is, you know, a good memory pops up in your life
(14:31):
after years. I don't know about you, but
lately I have had some strange full circle things hitting me
from, you know, a long time ago.And I think it's because of
social media a lot because, you know, people will try to find
their old friends. And, I mean, I've had people
find me that I went to kindergarten with, like, yeah.
(14:52):
So I'm talking like, you know, afew years ago and just a couple.
Yeah. That's interesting.
They're not bad memories. It's just kind of funny, like,
oh, you remember this person and.
Oh, yeah, I remember getting chocolate milk with you and, you
know, preschool. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I've got one.
I've only got one really close friend from high school that I
(15:12):
still talk to. Well, actually from, From even
before that 4th grade, we started, we were both on the, on
the Pirates, the baseball team, the Little League team.
And he and I have been friends ever since.
My closest friend, he's like a brother, his family, my family,
we're all really close people. And outside of that, I've, I've
only connected with a few peoplefrom, you know, like back in the
(15:33):
day, but. Yeah, So OK, holidays are coming
up. This show is airing the week
before Thanksgiving. Which which one?
So this one, right? Is it or is it the next or did
Thanksgiving happen? No Thanksgiving is the 20
something, so little women's Christmas comes out on the 23rd.
(15:56):
OK. Flipping Farms comes out in
March. OK, so this show comes out the
day after Thanksgiving on Black Friday.
This show. This one.
The one that we're doing. This one right now, so if you're
a listing, it's Black Friday or after Black Friday, right before
Christmas, so you know. Black Friday is not the same
(16:19):
anymore. You know, it used to be back
when we were younger, it was like you, you look at the ads
and everybody was excited and you'd go wait in line for a Game
Boy, you know, or like somethingthat was happening and, and
there'd be fights and people were just, you know, duking it
out. Now, like everybody just runs
their stuff early. And gets online, like I've
noticed on Amazon, they're already having Black Friday
(16:41):
sales. Oh yeah, yeah.
It's like they do it all year. Yeah, I remember I really wanted
a Cabbage Patch Kid one year. And so like, there were lines
and lines we had this stork was called Myers and my mom's friend
worked there. And my mom's friend like took a
bunch of Cabbage Patch Kids and hid them back in the storage
(17:03):
room And she marked them up like, I don't know, 20 bucks or
something. And like kept this kept some
aside. Anyways, I got my first Cabbage
Patch Kid and then I got, I ended up getting 12 of them all
together in two years because I wanted, I wanted 12 kids.
How many kids did you want when you were younger?
Me. Yeah.
(17:23):
Not 12. I wanted 12.
I wanted like a a team of kids. No, no, I I never thought about
that many kids. Yeah, I mean, I have three.
I'm good. They're all grown.
Yeah, yeah, I I don't think I ever had like a set amount.
I think that might be a girl thing like to think you want.
I think that guys don't really think about how many maybe some
(17:45):
do. I never did.
I just figured, you know, you just do what you're doing and
kids show up and then. They just pop up into up from
thin air. Yeah, yeah.
You know, you just get married and you have some kids and
that's what you do. I had a friend, she's the youth
pastor's daughter, and she's probably listening to this
because we're still friends. We've been from since, like, 5th
grade. And she used to think that if a
(18:08):
bumblebee bit you, you would getpregnant.
So once we were on the playground and a bumblebee came,
like zooming over by us, and shewas screaming her head off and
running and everybody's like, why are you freaking out?
I don't want to get pregnant. Yeah.
Where does that even come from? Like you told her that we need
to, we need to talk to her. I need to know where that came.
From it was the birds and the bees.
I asked her. I was like, why did you think
(18:29):
that? I asked her just a couple years
ago, 'cause I remembered that. That's really funny.
Yeah, so. All right, so let's play.
Would you rather? OK.
All right, so would you rather walk around with a popcorn
kernel stuck in your tooth or a rock in your shoe?
(18:56):
I think the rock like wait how long am I doing this?
I mean three days, because obviously you don't have AI mean
a popcorn kernel's pretty. Super annoying.
Super annoying. Like a whole kernel or just a
sliver of one? Because that's.
The whole one, because now you're missing like you're
missing half of a tooth or something.
(19:16):
Also now at this point. I think that would irritate me
more than the rock. Yeah, yeah, I think I could deal
with the Rock, You know, like a little side foot something.
Yeah, so this is the most randomshow I've had in a long time.
So what is the craziest thing that has happened?
And I totally skipped subjects. What's the totally crazy thing
(19:37):
that happened to you while you were filming?
So the first one of those, you know, would have been I was
working on the Little Women movie with, with my buddy
Brandon from true Brand Entertainment.
It's his his film. And I was working with him and I
(19:59):
looked over and and Danica McKellar was there.
She was, you know, on the wonderyears and I just.
Wonder right? When was it Winnie?
Yeah. Winnie Cooper.
Yeah. So I looked over and I was just
like. Wow, is that?
Is that Winnie Cooper like, you know, I mean, it's.
I've noticed scratch back then. Everybody Oh yeah, every, every,
(20:21):
every kid during that time frame, every guy, you know, that
was and I just remember thinkinglike how random, you know, like
my, my life is super random. I mean, it's just a series of
random events and and I just remember thinking like this is
so random. And so I went and talked to her
and got picture with her and andTrevor, one of the actors,
Trevor Donovan, who does a lot of lot of films seeming a lot of
(20:44):
stuff. You've seen a lot of Christmas
and he's done some other stuff, some cowboy stuff.
And he's on a new one called When Hope Calls.
I think is what it's called. It'll be coming out.
So I think it's a series I remember right.
But anyway, I just thought it was super random.
But from that I met Dionne who'sa writer and she's the writer on
flipping farms and my Co producer now.
(21:06):
But how I got the flipping farmsis even more random.
So I got a phone call to go do the show as a camera operator.
And then once we got here, the producers of the show were like,
hey, you kind of got the pulse of everything.
Why don't you just go ahead and,you know, you kind of just
direct the scenes and the thingsthat we're doing.
And I was like, OK, so I got kind of, you know, halfway
(21:29):
promoted to director, camera operator, kind of a guy.
And then they ended up getting pulled away after that on a
film. And so I kind of took over as
the producer of the show with, you know, with their, their
blessing, they were like, hey, man, go, go run with it, do your
thing, try to make it work. And so I started, you know, just
(21:50):
taking over the show and producing and promoting it and
pushing it and doing everything that I, you know, from from like
just here I am getting hired as a camera operator and now I'm,
you know, a producer on this show, which is crazy.
So when you were in the military, you probably didn't
really have a idea that you wereeven going to be in this
position 'cause I know we talkedlast week.
(22:11):
You went into the music businessa little bit and by the way, I
stalked your social media and you have a really good voice.
Oh thanks. Yeah I I enjoy singing.
I still do it every once in a while.
Sorry I got something in my eye,not sure what, probably a lash.
I do it every once in a while, but I don't I don't pursue it as
a career anymore. I just, I, you know, I love
(22:32):
music. It's a part of who I am.
It's part of how I grew up. My mom and dad were singers and
you know, did the church, churchband, all that kind of stuff and
back in the day and sidetrack. Oh, about how you didn't think
that when you were in the military you'd probably be.
Oh, Oh, no, no, I think like, like every, every Marine that,
you know, we think we're going to, you know, do a lifetime
(22:54):
career in the military and, you know, go out in a hail of
gunfire, you know, and some major battle and, and get a
Congressional Medal of Honor or something.
I think that's a lot of Marines feel that way.
But no, I didn't. I never never had a clue.
I mean, even the way that I got into the film industry was super
random. I'd like I told you last time
was, you know, it's just kind ofby happenstance.
(23:15):
And yeah, no, I never, never, never thought I'd be doing this
at all. I mean, you did bring up another
topic that you briefly touched on at the beginning of the show,
which is you were kicked out of band class.
Oh yeah, that, that's because I,so I got sent to the band
leaders office. So imagine if you will, OK,
there's this band room semicircle, you know, all the,
(23:37):
all the people are on the instruments.
Let's say you're, you're one of those band members.
So on this side of the glass, there's, there's an office and
there's a big piece of glass. Well, I stood up on that desk
and I went to the window with mycheeks.
And so that oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That yeah. So that happened.
(24:01):
The funniest things have happened in band rooms or band
classes, I think. I think that there should be a
book about it just because I've heard so many stories coming out
of that band room. I mean, you picture a bunch of
musicians and I mean, kind of you picture some kids.
Like back in our day, at least in my band, it was kind of dorky
(24:21):
to be in a band. It's crazy because I love music
so much and I love listening to bands and Oh my gosh, I love it.
I actually didn't want to be in band, but it was one of the
electives. It was like either that or like,
I don't know, Spanish or something, right?
So I was like, I'll just go withthe band.
And I wanted to play drums, but my mom was like, no, you're
going to play the trumpet. And that was I guess funny
(24:43):
because Gabriel and the horn andthe whole thing.
So the. Little Angel wings in the Halo.
Yeah, yeah. So I learned how to play the
trumpet and did not this, not this, not.
I wanted to be in a rock band. I don't want to be in like band.
Guess what instrument I played? OK, hold on.
Let's let's let's let's do this.Like, am I getting close?
I was going to say some. I was going to say either oboe
(25:05):
or clarinet. Yeah, it was the flu and it did
not sound good. I don't think.
I did play the piano though. My mom took me to piano lessons
every single week for a couple years until I told her one day I
never learned to read one note of music I played by ear.
Well, yeah, I, I don't read music either.
So I've, I've learned being in, in Nashville, I've had to learn
(25:28):
the, the number system. It's called the Nashville
numbers, which is basically assigning values with numbers so
that the chart can be transcribed through different,
you know, different starting points.
So if you start in like if you do a 145 and a six minor, that
translates all the way across the note spectrum as long as
the, so like let's say you're GCD and E minor, like that's
(25:49):
like a 145 type of structure, then you can take that and
you're like, oh, we need to do this in the key of G Well then
now everything just shifts over and everything stays the same.
Nothing changes structurally. You don't have to reconfigure a
whole sheet of music. It's just everybody knows now
we're in G and then you just go boom, boom, boom.
Boy, so we've been through your military.
(26:11):
We've been through some of your childhood.
At the beginning of the show last week, we talked about your
birth. Oh yeah.
Your mother's womb. So we talked about dying, which
I want to get into that a littlebit more, OK?
Because nobody else has had the guts to talk about dying with
me. And I'm not morbid, morbid, but
everybody dies and nobody talks about it.
(26:32):
And I think that we should talk about that.
And I think we should talk aboutsuicide too, because suicide is
a big deal. I mean, those listening know
that my father took his own lifeand it was seven months after my
mom passed and it completely shook our world.
People always have told me like,oh, I'm so sorry.
Like he was in a bad spot and they kind of OK it, right?
(26:55):
So they OK suicide. But in my opinion, it's not OK.
And I think more people should say, dude, it's not OK 'cause
you're actually, in my eyes, I feel like it's a very selfish
thing, even though, you know, it's also the what do I think
you even said it before, like last week, it's a a temper or
there's a temporary problem and you give it a.
(27:15):
It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Yeah, yeah, right. So so tell me more.
Yeah, I mean, I've, I've been down that thought process.
You know, a lot of guys go down that thought process.
Not, not just veterans, but guysin general.
You know that. You see a lot of memes out there
about like, you know, if you're a guy and you're hurting, just
(27:36):
remember, nobody cares. Like that's a meme that's out
there. You know that.
Messed. Up well for a long, a long, long
time, you know, and not that I disagree with this, but there is
a immeasurable amount of pressure that's put on men to be
a certain way to, you know, act a certain way, which which I
(27:59):
don't disagree with. I mean, men should be men.
We should carry the weight we should provide.
We should be, you know, that side of a family unit.
There there is that, you know, I, I think that we have as male
and female, I think that there are roles that we are better
suited to fill. Like I'm not going to be a stay
at home dad. There's there's no way that's
(28:19):
ever going to happen, right? I'm going to be the provider.
I'm going to go get the work. I'm going to go make the money.
I'm going to go do that job. You know, the hunter, the
gatherer, I wasn't built that way to stay at home and do that
job, and I think there's a lot of pressure that comes along
with that. There's so much pressure that
comes with that. I have a friend.
He was telling me that basicallyhis wife would threaten him.
(28:44):
I mean, really, at the end of the day, like she would say,
like, you're not, you're not doing good enough.
You're not, you know, you're notbeing a good dad because you're
always working. And then what?
Yeah, right. Like that drives me crazy when I
hear that because. That's the job.
Yeah, and and then they complainlike we don't have enough money
(29:04):
'cause you're not working hard enough, but you're also not a
good dad working too much. Yeah, there is a, a point where,
you know, situations feel reallyimpossible and, and some men
check out, you know, some men decide that that's the the only
course of action that they have.And it's a sad thing.
And like I said, I've, I've beendown that it happened to me
(29:25):
after Afghanistan, but it was because I think one of the big
things, and this is something I would really love to, to hit on.
Is that what they call PTSD or depression or all these
different things that happens toveterans?
It's, it's not because of what we went through.
Like we're, we're mentally tough.
We can go through those things, right?
(29:46):
What it is when you get out of the military, the reason there's
such a high suicide rate after the military is because we've
lost our identity, right? So one point you're this like,
go get him. Tough guy got a uniform, there's
respect. There's a crew of people you
count on, you know, you've got this brotherhood.
And then you get out into the civilian world where everybody's
(30:08):
in it for themselves and the mission doesn't matter and the
guy next to you doesn't matter. And so a lot of guys spiral
because of an identity issue. And I think that's a really hard
thing to deal with. And you have to find your
identity. And once you find your identity,
then you're OK. And that's what happened to me.
Yeah, I think it happens to all of us, and I think it happens to
(30:30):
us more than once in life, a lotof times.
I was having a conversation withone guy.
He was saying that every 10 years there's like a cycle in
his life where he goes through like almost an identity crisis
where he's working the same job and then he gets tired of it and
he doesn't want to do it anymore, but he doesn't feel
like he has another option. And so he goes through the
spiral like every decade. So with with that this actually
(30:56):
2 days ago my friend told me that her her daughters
ex-boyfriend and father of her children killed himself and had
four kids and they're all littlelike under 12 I think.
And I just think, man, you know,for me, I, I was an adult when
it happened and with my dad and I was so upset.
(31:19):
And I've actually never went into the detail, so I'm gonna do
it now, apparently. But I was so upset because I
felt like my dad was always likethe pillar of my life.
He was always that strong guy. He never showed weakness.
I don't think I ever one time ever saw my dad cry.
He was like the strongest personI thought, in my, like, ever.
(31:43):
But there were a couple little warning signs that I didn't
really think about or pay too much attention to.
And one of them was he said he was not going to do the holidays
this, this, that year that he passed.
And the holidays were always a really big deal in our family.
I just thought he meant that he just didn't want to do anything.
But we were like, yeah, we are. We're going to do Thanksgiving
(32:04):
and my brother's going to go pick up this platter from the
house and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, the last night I talked
to him, he's just like, I don't really want to do the holidays.
And it's like, dad, we're going to do the holidays.
I'll be there the day after tomorrow.
And, and that night he literallydecided he, he just really
wasn't going to do the holidays.And for me, I probably should
(32:26):
have known that because my dad and and I look back in the would
of should of you know, but I've never heard my dad say something
that he actually didn't do. I just thought he meant he just
wasn't going to do the holidays.But like going back and
analyzing it. I'm like, oh man, that was his
definitely his way of saying something.
(32:47):
And then he also brought a couple things up to me, like
about a month before that about some things.
And so if you, you know, we're heading into these holidays,
we're on Black Friday right now.Holidays are probably one of the
hardest times of year for this SO.
Yeah, that's I'm, I'm sorry about your dad.
I actually didn't even know that.
(33:08):
Yeah, I mean it. I finally have come to be able
to talk about it. I did go through weird emotions
like from extreme sadness to like not understanding to being
really pissed off. And I'm still kind of like that
pissed phase pissed 'cause he left me, he left my kids.
(33:29):
You know, is my my only person in my life that I completely
ever 1000% trusted to know that he would bury a body if somebody
hurt me. Like he was that kind of guy
one. 100% and I think, I think good dads are that way.
I mean, I have a daughter and I,I, you know, so there's a few
reasons that I never took that road.
(33:51):
And that's what I want to know. Like where were?
I've, I've been all the way to the bottom of that, that barrel,
you know, all the way to the bottom of, of that bottle.
I've been there. And I think it's for me, what
saved me was finding God. I think that's where I found, I
found that I found grace. I found forgiveness in who I was
(34:14):
as a person. And that changed me.
And I realized that my life wasn't my own.
I didn't create it, and to me, Ididn't have the right to take
it. And then I have a daughter and a
son who, you know, would have been devastated without a
father. That's the thing, right?
Yeah, and that was, that was a, you know, I looked at this
(34:36):
little girl, you know, and she's12 right now.
And, and I look at her and I'm like, I don't want someone else
to raise her. Like I couldn't, I couldn't
allow that. I couldn't that, that thought.
And, and even my son is somebodyelse teaching my son to be a
man. You know, those thoughts are
what I looked at. And I'm like, I couldn't, I
(34:58):
couldn't do that, you know, But it was very real for a very,
very long time. You know, I was, I was
struggling like a lot of people do.
And I'll tell you what helped metoo, was two other vets, 11
veteran named Ronnie, who workedat the VA in, in Chico, CA and
he was a Vietnam vet who had gone back when the Gulf War
(35:20):
broke out. And so he did big gaps in
service. And then the other was a guy
named Dick Roberts, who was alsoa Vietnam vet.
And those guys were instrumentalin getting me back into, you
know, a society in, in reintegrating.
And it's not that I had a super hard deployment.
It's not that a lot of crazy stuff happened.
(35:41):
It's just you go to deployments and you go in the military and
like I said, you come out and you lose your identity, you
know, especially when that was your life plan.
Like I'm going to do 30 something years and then then
I'm going to get out and retire like I did 13 now what?
So. Yeah.
Yeah, I think people also don't realize the long term changes
(36:05):
that can be made by just taking small, little short term steps,
right. So a couple years ago, I
remember waking up one morning and I wasn't going to kill
myself. But have you ever been to the
place where you're like, I woke up again, like, I'm still here.
Why? Yes, yeah.
I mean, I've also been to the place where I pray to God and
(36:26):
I'm like, Kyle, just just Take Me Out tonight.
Like, yeah, I'm not going to do it myself.
Could we just speed it up? Or, or I was talking to another
friend of mine and he's like, yeah, have you ever just laid
there and you're just like, OK, trying to will your heart just
like go to sleep robber. So I think, I think that, you
know, I think a lot of people deal with that, but not a lot of
people are going to talk about it because you don't want to be
(36:47):
perceived as weak or you don't want to be perceived as crazy,
you know, like, but the truth is, is it's just human.
You know, life is hard, things are hard.
I think the biggest thing is youjust, you need to reach out, you
know, and, and the other thing on the other side of that coin
is check on people. You know, I have a monster
Rolodex of contacts and I genuinely care about all of
(37:11):
them. I give my number out to vets all
the time, you know, to other people that they're struggling.
And I say, Hey, I don't care what time it is.
If you're, if you're on that road, call me.
Let's talk, you know, you know, let's, let's get you out of
that. Let's move your situation, let's
change things, whatever we got to do.
Like I, I think it's such a, a sad thing when I hear about it
(37:34):
and, and, and it happens like ithappened to my neighbor.
You know, my neighbor killed himself one day and it was one
of those, you know, the day before him and I were hanging
out, super nice guy always came over, always lended a hand.
It's always the really, really good people, you know, that you
meet and then you're surprised. It's like, it's never like the
guy like I always, and this is this is humoristically morbid,
(37:57):
but it's never the guy who everybody thinks is going to
kill himself, right? It's never the guy that you meet
and you're like, that dude's going to off himself.
You know it's never that guy. It's the.
People who are well put together.
Yeah, usually the people who really end up doing it are the
ones who don't talk about it because want the attention on
that. I just watched a video yesterday
(38:19):
actually, and it was two guys sitting in a ball field and
they're having one is having a great time, just like cheering
and. Oh, I saw that.
Yeah, and then the other guy next to him, he looked like he
was really grouchy and he lookeddepressed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was the guy who was happy
and cheering and, you know, killing himself.
Yeah, that's where they they flipped the script at the end of
that. Yeah.
Yeah. And as a as a filmmaker, I
(38:41):
anticipated that because it saidwatch to the end.
And I'm like, OK, you know what I mean?
But no, it is, it's very valid. You know, it's sometimes like
you got to look at a guy like Robin Williams, right?
He was a comedian. He was very outgoing, very
amazing person, you know, from what I understand.
And that's, that's the guy, that's the type of person that
(39:01):
that makes that choice. And so even those people, you
know, you need to check on them.And just like I asked some of my
buddies all the time, like, hey,man, where's, where's your head
at? You know, how, how, how are
things not how you doing? You doing all right?
It's where's your head at? You know, we need to know, I
think we need to know each other.
You know, the, the government, social media, all these things
have done really good isolating us.
(39:23):
You know, we, we isolate. We don't have community like we
used to. You know, that whole village
mentality. You know, we don't, we don't
have that anymore. Our neighborhoods.
I mean, I know three people on my street.
You know. I wouldn't know if any of them
are struggling. Man, I remember when COVID first
happened and in Florida, we really hardly had COVID like
anywhere like, but I remember like maybe the first week, you
(39:47):
know, all the stores are closed down and all that stuff.
And if we were sitting outside, we could hear our neighbors
talking to each other and laughing and having fun because
everything was closed and nobodywas running around and their
workplaces were closed. And that was the best time that
I remember in a long time. And it's the only good thing
that came out of COVID. But you know, that was kind of
(40:09):
unique. I know two guys stories and I'll
hurry up because I want this show to be more about you.
But one guy. Forever changed my life and it's
one of the biggest reasons I continue to to advocate for
military veterans. I met this guy Joey, and it's
Joey Hart. He was in the hospital at Womack
(40:30):
crying the first time I met him and he was on the floor because
he had broken his foot in Afghanistan.
Long story short, he ended up getting addicted to painkillers
while he was in the military andhe tried to kill himself a
couple of times while he was still in the military in the
Warrior Transition Battalion. Who, by the way, treated him
like complete shit. And I will gladly talk about
(40:52):
that these days. I used to be nervous to talk
about that, but I'll gladly talkabout that to any.
Let's be here. I know a guy my my my best
friend who's still a great friend of mine today was was
sent home because he got hit a abunch of times in a in an ambush
and same thing. It was unreal.
(41:12):
Unreal. Yeah, this Warrior Transition
Battalion at Fort Bragg was awful.
And I know why they changed the name now because it's like, OK,
they changed it to Fort Liberty because you can't really Google
that crap anymore. But but they had their Purple
Heart veterans listed on a whiteboard that said bishes,
BISHES instead of bitches, Purple Heart veterans.
And they're having, you know, they had cadre that never even
(41:34):
deployed. But anyways, he did not get
treated right after he came back.
And he was suicidal, I believe, because of that.
And years later, I continued to talk to him and help advocate
for him and helped him get into treatment and things.
But the last time I talked to him, he said he was checking
himself into inpatient. He was really nervous.
He was crying. I was crying because I was
(41:55):
really nervous. But he said, am I going to be
OK? I'm going to go check myself in
here. This should help me, right?
And I remember saying, yes, absolutely do it.
He picked himself out three daysearly and went home and killed
himself. And that was the most
devastating blow, I think. And it is still the reason that
I continue to advocate because he said on that last call, do
(42:18):
you promise that you'll continueto help?
And I promise if I can get help,I'll do the same thing.
So that's kind of where I'm at. The other one though, had a
better story, my friend Adam, and he lets me share his story,
not Adam Burden, a different 1. He texted me in the middle of
the night and I just happened tolook at my phone and it lit up
and it was weird. And he said thanks for
(42:39):
everything you did. I'm sorry, it wasn't enough.
So I called him up and I was like, what are you doing?
It's 4:00 in the morning. And he's like, he didn't say
anything for a good minute. And I'm like, Oh my gosh.
And then finally he said, I justhad a gun in my mouth and I was
like, why are you doing that? Why don't you come get coffee?
Because I didn't know what to say.
Like change his mindset and he'slike, what?
(43:03):
And I was like, boom, come have coffee.
So he came over and had coffee and we went to the hospital.
He checked himself in and he's doing really good today, so.
That's amazing. I mean, and, and that, that
simple gesture, you didn't know what to do, but you did, it is,
is probably very much the reason, one, that you answered
your phone and two, that you intervened, you know, and, and
(43:25):
God puts those people in our lives to do that type of stuff.
You know, these, these intersecting points, you know,
that you look at, I mean, you look back on things and you go,
why, why did I meet that person?Well, it's going to have a
value. Nothing's by chance.
I don't believe in chance. I don't believe in accidents.
I really honestly believe that we meet the people we meet for a
reason. And so you're instrumental in
(43:47):
that man's story, and that's amazing.
Well, you know, it's, it's also a testament of you may not be
able to save every single person, but what's that starfish
scenario? But you can maybe save that one,
You know, don't give up. I'm sure there's a lot of
listeners out there who unfortunately has lost somebody
(44:08):
to suicide. But the next time somebody comes
up in your life, I don't just think it's completely hopeless
because I don't know about you, but I actually, I know that if
somebody's going to do it, it's not my fault they're going to do
it. At the same time, I, I did kind
of blame myself a few times witha couple different situations,
you know, just not, not sure if you could really do anything.
(44:31):
You try and it doesn't work. So.
Yeah, I mean, that's part of, you know, the survivor's guilt.
It's like you always think, oh, I could have done, done more.
I could have done something I could have, you know, whatever
it is, but but the fact is, is you, you couldn't have, you
know, like those people make up their minds.
And it is, in my, in my opinion,a very selfish act.
(44:51):
You know as well, it is very selfish because you're choosing
to check out of everybody else'slife.
You're choosing to check out andyou for some reason think the
world would be better if you weren't there.
And that's it's absolutely incorrect.
You know, it's not I, I don't, Idon't wish death on anyone.
Like not even not even the people I don't like, you know
(45:13):
what I mean? Like I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
wish that on anybody. I think that's that is you just,
there's no coming back from that, you know?
Yeah, and you never know who it's going to affect, right?
So even if it's the biggest jerkin the whole entire world, they
might have that one family member who loves them so.
No, no, I know. And then you also got to look at
(45:34):
it like there's a ripple effect,right?
So, so if you take yourself out of the game, what if down the
road you would have been better and you met somebody who was in
that position and you stopped them or you helped them.
You know well that now that thatthe ripple effect has long, long
lasting ripple. It's an endless ripple.
You know that one action? Yeah.
(45:57):
And even if you think nobody cares about you, still
somebody's going to find you. How's that going to affect that
person, that law enforcement person or, or whoever you know?
Oh, no, it's, it's, it is, it's,it's devastating in a full 360.
There's no, there's no good thatcomes from it.
And so that's why I'm always an advocate as well, you know, like
(46:17):
for, for other people. It's like if you're struggling,
please call somebody, you know, call me.
I don't. I don't care.
And let's not make it so taboo to talk about death and dying.
And I think that's another big part of it because, you know,
you go to the doctor and they ask, I've been in veteran
appointments with them and the doctor will say like, are you
(46:37):
suicidal? Have you been suicidal?
And they're like, Nope, I'm great.
Because it's not, you know, it. Most people doctors not exactly
suicidal right at that moment, you know?
Sure, you know, and and that's those, it's just a the VA
doesn't do a great job with veterans specifically.
And I think that our system getsit wrong too, because we put
(46:59):
labels on people, you know it and it's permanent labels.
It's like, oh, he's suicidal, OK.
It's kind of like being sick, right?
You might be sick right now, buteventually you're going to get
over it, right? You're going to get past it.
And I think with the right medication, not pills, but the
right help, you know, which is aform of medication, you know,
(47:19):
you, you get over things, you get better and, and you do
better when you thrive. But if we just put people in a
box and tell them that they're depressed and they have suicidal
tendencies, and then we've pharmaceutically induced them
into that mindset forever, they never get better.
Absolutely. How long were you suicidal
before you reached out for help,would you say?
(47:42):
And then did anybody else know? Did your family actually
recognize it, or did you kind ofhide it?
Oh, I hit it, but I never see. Here's The thing is I, I
resisted the idea of getting help, you know, and until I
listened and it was like, well, you know, maybe you should go
(48:04):
talk to somebody, right? And at that same time, I was
getting hit from both sides because I just met this guy
named Dick Roberts and and he was flying model airplanes, you
know, like little remote controlairplanes.
And we spent a lot of time together doing that.
And he was teaching me how to fly and all the stuff.
And he just became like this amazing mentor in my life.
(48:26):
And and he was like, well, you know, maybe you should talk to
somebody. Then I was hearing it somewhere
else. And I was so lost at that time
that I remember having that really like introspective
conversation with myself going, maybe you should talk to
somebody because we're not OK right now, you know, and I and I
(48:47):
did, but I don't know if anybodythought it was suicidal.
Maybe they did and they just never said anything.
But it was definitely on the table for a while.
I mean, a solid, I would say a solid couple years of my life
where it was like a thought like, well, it's today the day,
you know, it's a hopeless feeling.
(49:10):
What are some things that you dowhen you start getting like in a
funk? Do you kind of try to change it
or you just go in that funk and keep in funky?
No, you know, I, I seek counsel,you know, I seek counsel.
I, I talked to, I'll talk to my dad, you know, if I'm having a
hard time and I'll talk to, you know, Steve Koza, you know, my
(49:33):
buddy from, from the Marine Corps, the recruiter who's still
instrumental in my life. You know, I talked to those guys
and they help you out. They get you through things, you
know, and, and I talked to God, you know, a lot all day, like,
all right, what are we doing here?
Why are we doing this? You know, I think that's an
intricate, intricate part of my life is, is having the faith
(49:54):
that I have and knowing that there is hope no matter what the
situation is. Yeah, and I kind of went the
other way. I kind of back.
I'm not towards Satan. I'm not saying like, I'm not
saying no. Great all.
Right. Well, this was fun.
Thanks, Patty. We're going to get off this
call. No, but I I definitely stopped
(50:15):
going to church and things and just decided for me just to have
like a more of a personal relationship with God instead of
getting involved with too many churchy things and stuff.
And that's a whole nother show. Yeah, yeah.
Thanks for thanks for listening guys.
You can find me at Gabriel underscore, Ren WR and you can follow
us Flipping Farms show. Thanks.
(50:38):
Thanks everybody for listening. Until next time, definitely go
back through the archives.
Hello everybody. You're listening to Wake Up with
Patty Katter and I have Gabe on my show again.
Gabe Wren. He was on last week and we are
going to, I would say finish up but I have a feeling he might be
on again. I feel like this is going to be
a long process here. We we keep diving into more and
more subjects. I know it.
It's crazy. The only other person that I did
(00:22):
consecutive podcasting with was Adam Byrd on the Decision Hour.
We got a show together for, I don't know, a good year, at
least maybe two years. I've done that show a couple
times with him. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's a good
egg. Yeah, we did that one in
Pennsylvania at the NRA show, The Great American Show.
Last year we did one. Oh, that's funny.
(00:43):
He invited me to that. That would have been crazy.
If we all were there, I think wewould have gotten into some
major, major shenanigans. Oh, shenanigans for sure.
Yeah, no doubt. Anytime Adam and I are around
those shenanigans. Happen.
Oh my gosh, yeah. You wouldn't think so because
you you know he walks in in a suit that doesn't mean a thing.
Not at all, no. Yeah, we did that one.
(01:05):
We did it from the booth becauseI have a friend that has a gun
company I used to work for and now I now I just kind of help
him out every year. And so every February I'm in
Pennsylvania at that show. I've been there for years and
years. Interesting.
And there's a red carpet event that we're going to have in
Lancaster for the Flipping Palm show, and that's going to be
(01:25):
happening in February as well. I'm going to try to put the
dates in line so that I can justgo from there to there.
Oh yeah, I mean, you have to go from a farming show to a gun
show to. I mean, it just makes sense.
We're at the Farm Show Complex. Yeah.
So you know. Yeah, yeah.
So I have a couple questions foryou.
OK. First of all, have you ever
(01:46):
heard of the immortal jellyfish?No.
Is this a real thing? I need to look this up.
Hold. On, it's a real thing.
Hold on, I'm looking this up. It's a real thing.
Jellyfish. OK.
Yeah, so beats me how I actuallycame across it except, well, I
kind of remember. Yeah, I was looking up immortal
things because I was going to bea bit better for Halloween again
(02:09):
for the 100th time. But I decided against it, and I
found that there was a immortal jellyfish.
Which brings me to the question,if you could be immortal, would
you want to be? Well, interesting question
because I do believe we are, whether it's this life or the
next, we are immortal. Our soul is immortal.
(02:30):
It's not. We're not physically immortal
here on this Earth. But if I could be physically
immortal, I don't think I would be.
I mean, I think I'm actually looking forward to like, what's
next? Yeah, yeah, that too.
Because I mean, really, if you have to be in the same place,
like you can only go around the world so many times, it's really
not right so. It would be cool to see like the
(02:51):
evolution of history, though, you know, like to be a party to
the birth of America and, and that, you know, all the things
that's happened in our country at least, you know, and even
going back as far as, you know, 2000 BC to, to see everything
that's transpired through history.
That would be kind of cool. That's true as long as you could
(03:11):
be a certain age. Like I wouldn't want to be an
immortal 200 year old that look like a 200 year old.
Right, right now you'd have to be like, you know, somewhere mid
midlife I think would be a good spot.
Yeah, I feel like I'm in a good spot now.
Yeah, I I wouldn't want to be a kid again and be immortal, and I
wouldn't want to be older and beimmortal.
(03:32):
I think that midlife range whereyou kind of know better and
you've got all this experience behind you is a good spot to be.
Yeah, I agree. You know, I, I thought I'd start
out with this question just because, first of all, I can get
a little weird, but secondly, because we left off on this
question of last week, what was your death fear, Right?
(03:53):
Oh, I have, I have a new one andI forgot about it last week, but
it is. But it's it's a part of the
buried alive bit. But do you ever watch these guys
caving and like, they're like, there's like this much room and
they're like on their face and they're like.
Yeah. Right.
Nah, no thanks. That's that's that's another
one. It's that guy that went down
with all those buddies and they went to go back for him and then
(04:16):
they couldn't find him and he just died a slow death, like
over days and days and days stuck and he couldn't do
anything to get out. It was just.
Like trapped like this much roomto where you can't move your
head or anything. It's like being just pinned down
the whole time. And if you've ever done
wrestling, I don't know if you have, you know, that feeling of
(04:37):
being pinned down and you just can't get up.
And like after a while you're like, OK.
Like WWE or WWEWWF? Yeah, I don't know.
No, I actually did. I was.
I did freestyle wrestling in high school, so.
But yes, no, I understand that. I didn't have any older
siblings, but I have a younger sister so I did most of the
holding down growing up, so. So yeah.
(05:00):
I bet you were a handful. I, you know, if, if it, if I'd
have grown up now, the school system probably would have
pumped me full of medication, you know, like I was all boy all
the time and you know, they justdealt with me.
But, you know, I know it's I was, I was, I was a handful.
I got so funny story, 22 funny stories.
(05:24):
I got kicked out of band in junior high.
Yeah, I know. And and then the other one was I
got suspended in junior high as well in 6th grade for mooning
the class. So yeah, yeah.
And and that's actually how I got removed from band as well.
(05:46):
So it's a bit of a trend. They're in the 6th, 7th and 8th
grade where I found that hilarious.
I guess so. Oh my God, I never mooned
anybody but my friend, my frienddid.
We were in I think probably like8th or 9th grade, like in school
still like way back in the day. And my friend's father was the
(06:11):
Township supervisor and I won't say the name of the town, but he
had a lot of friends who were police officers and he would
work third shift sometimes because he'd go in when they
were working third shift at the Police Department and he'd just
go talk to his buddies or whatever.
And his her mom was gone one time to a vacation.
(06:32):
Anyways, we were outside at, I don't know, two, 3:00 in the
morning, like run around her yard.
She had an amazing yard. It had like a big trampoline and
stuff. And for some crazy reason, she's
like, come on, let's go hide in the ditch and scare the car that
goes by. And I was like, no, 'cause we're
going to get in trouble. And she's like, OK, I'm going to
moon him. So I was like, OK, so I'm hiding
(06:52):
down in the ditch with her. And she really didn't, I really
didn't think she would do it. But it happened to be the police
car that happened to have. Yeah.
Didn't it ride alone? That's hilarious.
That reminds me of that movie. I think it was called Dirty
Work. And like, it's really funny.
There's a scene in there. I think it's from the 90s or
late or early 2000s, but they're, they're driving down
(07:15):
the road and the guy's like, oh,right here, right here, right
here. And so the guy, you know, he
gets his, get his drawers down and he goes ready to, you know,
put his butt on the glass. And so he does.
And they start, he starts honking his horns so everybody
will look. And then he just pulls over and
parks right in front of everybody and gets out.
And his buddy's like getting out.
He's like he was, he was supposed to keep going, supposed
(07:36):
to keep going. It was really funny.
Man, oh man. So you we talked about your
military experience last week. Oh.
Yeah. Marine Corps, Army, Air Force,
tell us a funny story from that time because I know there's got
to be a ton of and I totally putyou on the spot.
I probably should have prepped. You no, no, there there's a
bunch of there's a bunch of great stories.
(07:58):
So 2 two of my favorites actually, that I still probably,
you know, I, I still tell to this day.
One is 1 was a buddy of mine whowas we, we lost him a little
while back. His name was Dennis Jenkins and
he was, when I got to my first duty station, he was my corporal
and I was APFC at the time and then promoted to Lance Corporal.
(08:20):
But he was my corporal and I wasan MP when I first went in the
Marine Corps. And so I got there and I checked
in and, and Jenkins and I, we had built this really great
relationship, this bond, because, you know, he was in
charge of me and I looked up to him.
And so we had this great relationship.
It was me, Dennis Jenkins, a guynamed Terrence Brown, who is out
of Chicago now, and Sergeant Seaward.
(08:43):
And those guys were kind of like, they were like the guys
that, you know, when I first gotthere.
So anyway, Jenkins and I are he's the road supervisor one
night and this is now probably ayear and a half into the base.
And so we're really close. And we had these training
bottles of pepper spray that like we would use for training.
(09:04):
And so, so this, this guy came up to the gate from the pizza
place. I don't know what it was back
then, Papa John's or something, you know, and, and so he comes
up and, and he's, you know, theyhave to stop at the gate And I'm
like, hey, where you headed? And he goes, oh, I've got a,
I've got an order at the, it says, I think it was building 1
or PMO building or whatever. He said, and I said, who's it
(09:25):
for? And he said, looks like Sergeant
Jenkins. And I was like, oh, let me see
that thing. And I opened up, you know, to
verify there's not any kind of bomb or contraband in it.
And I just gave it a little and closed it and, and sent it on
the way, you know, and about, I don't know, maybe less than 10
minutes. I see lights and siren.
(09:47):
I see lights and hear sirens. And Jenkins is flying from
behind. He's back there.
And I see the reflection, of course, in the glass in the
building. This is like we're probably ten,
11:00 at night or later. And, and the basement for the
most part is, is shut down. It's a base that's not existing
anymore. It's called Tustin.
It was out in California, real famous for the hangers and that
(10:08):
it one of them just burnt down recently.
So Jenkins comes flying up and he turns a car around, gets out
and he's his eyes and his nose and everything just like he's
just dying, right? Like he just hemorrhaging snot
and water. Everything's just happening to
his face. And he gets you think you're
funny, huh? You think you're funny?
(10:29):
And he starts making me do push ups, right.
And we had a, a relationship outside of work, but we also had
that corporal, Lance Corporal relationship at that time.
And so I, I burnt that line a little bit.
And so he comes out there and hestarts making me do push ups and
I do push ups for like, I don't know, a solid hour.
But the whole time I was pushing, he was just crying, you
(10:51):
know, and like just just destroyed and waving traffic and
we were laughing, I mean, the whole time, but he was trying to
be serious and, and it was, it was a, it was a lot of fun.
I miss that guy all the time. He was, he was one of the good
ones. So that's one.
I'm surprised he didn't shoot you with the pepper spray.
Oh no, he got me back later on. So we had this other gag where
(11:15):
we would, you know, the militaryas you, as you know from all
these conversations, I'm sure isa lot of goofing off when
there's downtime, right. And so we were pre war.
I mean, we're talking this is 1998, right?
There was nothing going on. And so a lot of shenanigans, you
know, a lot of goofing around, alot of brotherhood, you know,
(11:36):
being explored. And he got me back.
There was you take a a Taco Bellsauce packet and you cut a small
slit in one side, put the straw in, stick it back down in the
cup. You know, I haven't heard that
one. Oh, yeah, No, it works really
well. It's really good.
It's a really good one. Let's.
Get Adam Bird on that one. Well, he's going to see this.
Maybe let's see if he really watches that.
(11:57):
You guys OK. I doubt he will.
I doubt he will. He says he doesn't like your
show anyway. So because.
I'm doing better now, I'm just joking.
Wow. I love Adam.
Yeah, no, but so, yeah. So he got me back that way.
But we, we, we constantly, you know, for years played games
with each other and just we, we,we were at that duty station.
And then we both went to Miramar, the next duty station.
(12:20):
And then, you know, 2001 came around and, and I think he got
out just before me and then I got out after him.
And then we kind of kept in contact for a number of years.
And it's been, I think almost 10years now since he he died.
But a super great guy. I mean, just one of those guys
I'd look back fondly on in the Marine Corps.
And, and yeah, so that's one guy.
(12:42):
That's one funny story. You want another one or you want
me to stop? Yeah, I love these stories from
the 1900s. Oh wow, the 1900s.
OK, well, let me take you into the, the modern era, into the
2000s. So 2001.
Yeah. So there's a a kid that I work
with, he's a younger guy, same, same kind of a situation.
(13:05):
He works for me. I'm the corporal now.
He's the Pfc, the Lance Corporal.
And he failed a field day inspection on his barracks room.
And so of course that falls on me, right.
So that's my fault now. And I ended up I ended up having
him he lived on the 2nd floor. I would have him take all of his
(13:27):
stuff down to the to the bottom deck.
And so he, and then he would have to clean his entire room,
put it all back and call me and this one on all night.
Like every couple hours, every hour I'd get a phone call, I'd
drive up to the base, I'd check his room, I'd inspect it, find
something wrong with it intentionally and then I'd leave
and make him do it again. We did this all night all night.
(13:49):
And what's really interesting about that is that's a cool
story because that guy just reached out to me a week ago and
I haven't talked to him since probably 2001 or more.
Maybe we connected once or twiceover the years, but it's been a
long, long time, probably 20 years at least.
And we had that conversation. And he's actually in the the
(14:09):
film industry now. His name is Reed Carpenter.
And he's just, he's killing it. He's doing some great stuff.
And so we, you know, we formed abond way back then.
And he calls me up. He's like, hey, man, I want to
work with you. Let's do something.
And so now we're exploring opportunities together.
So cool dude, but. Yeah, that's always good when
somebody that is, you know, a good memory pops up in your life
(14:31):
after years. I don't know about you, but
lately I have had some strange full circle things hitting me
from, you know, a long time ago.And I think it's because of
social media a lot because, you know, people will try to find
their old friends. And, I mean, I've had people
find me that I went to kindergarten with, like, yeah.
(14:52):
So I'm talking like, you know, afew years ago and just a couple.
Yeah. That's interesting.
They're not bad memories. It's just kind of funny, like,
oh, you remember this person and.
Oh, yeah, I remember getting chocolate milk with you and, you
know, preschool. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, I've got one.
I've only got one really close friend from high school that I
(15:12):
still talk to. Well, actually from, From even
before that 4th grade, we started, we were both on the, on
the Pirates, the baseball team, the Little League team.
And he and I have been friends ever since.
My closest friend, he's like a brother, his family, my family,
we're all really close people. And outside of that, I've, I've
only connected with a few peoplefrom, you know, like back in the
(15:33):
day, but. Yeah, So OK, holidays are coming
up. This show is airing the week
before Thanksgiving. Which which one?
So this one, right? Is it or is it the next or did
Thanksgiving happen? No Thanksgiving is the 20
something, so little women's Christmas comes out on the 23rd.
(15:56):
OK. Flipping Farms comes out in
March. OK, so this show comes out the
day after Thanksgiving on Black Friday.
This show. This one.
The one that we're doing. This one right now, so if you're
a listing, it's Black Friday or after Black Friday, right before
Christmas, so you know. Black Friday is not the same
(16:19):
anymore. You know, it used to be back
when we were younger, it was like you, you look at the ads
and everybody was excited and you'd go wait in line for a Game
Boy, you know, or like somethingthat was happening and, and
there'd be fights and people were just, you know, duking it
out. Now, like everybody just runs
their stuff early. And gets online, like I've
noticed on Amazon, they're already having Black Friday
(16:41):
sales. Oh yeah, yeah.
It's like they do it all year. Yeah, I remember I really wanted
a Cabbage Patch Kid one year. And so like, there were lines
and lines we had this stork was called Myers and my mom's friend
worked there. And my mom's friend like took a
bunch of Cabbage Patch Kids and hid them back in the storage
(17:03):
room And she marked them up like, I don't know, 20 bucks or
something. And like kept this kept some
aside. Anyways, I got my first Cabbage
Patch Kid and then I got, I ended up getting 12 of them all
together in two years because I wanted, I wanted 12 kids.
How many kids did you want when you were younger?
Me. Yeah.
(17:23):
Not 12. I wanted 12.
I wanted like a a team of kids. No, no, I I never thought about
that many kids. Yeah, I mean, I have three.
I'm good. They're all grown.
Yeah, yeah, I I don't think I ever had like a set amount.
I think that might be a girl thing like to think you want.
I think that guys don't really think about how many maybe some
(17:45):
do. I never did.
I just figured, you know, you just do what you're doing and
kids show up and then. They just pop up into up from
thin air. Yeah, yeah.
You know, you just get married and you have some kids and
that's what you do. I had a friend, she's the youth
pastor's daughter, and she's probably listening to this
because we're still friends. We've been from since, like, 5th
grade. And she used to think that if a
(18:08):
bumblebee bit you, you would getpregnant.
So once we were on the playground and a bumblebee came,
like zooming over by us, and shewas screaming her head off and
running and everybody's like, why are you freaking out?
I don't want to get pregnant. Yeah.
Where does that even come from? Like you told her that we need
to, we need to talk to her. I need to know where that came.
From it was the birds and the bees.
I asked her. I was like, why did you think
(18:29):
that? I asked her just a couple years
ago, 'cause I remembered that. That's really funny.
Yeah, so. All right, so let's play.
Would you rather? OK.
All right, so would you rather walk around with a popcorn
kernel stuck in your tooth or a rock in your shoe?
(18:56):
I think the rock like wait how long am I doing this?
I mean three days, because obviously you don't have AI mean
a popcorn kernel's pretty. Super annoying.
Super annoying. Like a whole kernel or just a
sliver of one? Because that's.
The whole one, because now you're missing like you're
missing half of a tooth or something.
(19:16):
Also now at this point. I think that would irritate me
more than the rock. Yeah, yeah, I think I could deal
with the Rock, You know, like a little side foot something.
Yeah, so this is the most randomshow I've had in a long time.
So what is the craziest thing that has happened?
And I totally skipped subjects. What's the totally crazy thing
(19:37):
that happened to you while you were filming?
So the first one of those, you know, would have been I was
working on the Little Women movie with, with my buddy
Brandon from true Brand Entertainment.
It's his his film. And I was working with him and I
(19:59):
looked over and and Danica McKellar was there.
She was, you know, on the wonderyears and I just.
Wonder right? When was it Winnie?
Yeah. Winnie Cooper.
Yeah. So I looked over and I was just
like. Wow, is that?
Is that Winnie Cooper like, you know, I mean, it's.
I've noticed scratch back then. Everybody Oh yeah, every, every,
(20:21):
every kid during that time frame, every guy, you know, that
was and I just remember thinkinglike how random, you know, like
my, my life is super random. I mean, it's just a series of
random events and and I just remember thinking like this is
so random. And so I went and talked to her
and got picture with her and andTrevor, one of the actors,
Trevor Donovan, who does a lot of lot of films seeming a lot of
(20:44):
stuff. You've seen a lot of Christmas
and he's done some other stuff, some cowboy stuff.
And he's on a new one called When Hope Calls.
I think is what it's called. It'll be coming out.
So I think it's a series I remember right.
But anyway, I just thought it was super random.
But from that I met Dionne who'sa writer and she's the writer on
flipping farms and my Co producer now.
(21:06):
But how I got the flipping farmsis even more random.
So I got a phone call to go do the show as a camera operator.
And then once we got here, the producers of the show were like,
hey, you kind of got the pulse of everything.
Why don't you just go ahead and,you know, you kind of just
direct the scenes and the thingsthat we're doing.
And I was like, OK, so I got kind of, you know, halfway
(21:29):
promoted to director, camera operator, kind of a guy.
And then they ended up getting pulled away after that on a
film. And so I kind of took over as
the producer of the show with, you know, with their, their
blessing, they were like, hey, man, go, go run with it, do your
thing, try to make it work. And so I started, you know, just
(21:50):
taking over the show and producing and promoting it and
pushing it and doing everything that I, you know, from from like
just here I am getting hired as a camera operator and now I'm,
you know, a producer on this show, which is crazy.
So when you were in the military, you probably didn't
really have a idea that you wereeven going to be in this
position 'cause I know we talkedlast week.
(22:11):
You went into the music businessa little bit and by the way, I
stalked your social media and you have a really good voice.
Oh thanks. Yeah I I enjoy singing.
I still do it every once in a while.
Sorry I got something in my eye,not sure what, probably a lash.
I do it every once in a while, but I don't I don't pursue it as
a career anymore. I just, I, you know, I love
(22:32):
music. It's a part of who I am.
It's part of how I grew up. My mom and dad were singers and
you know, did the church, churchband, all that kind of stuff and
back in the day and sidetrack. Oh, about how you didn't think
that when you were in the military you'd probably be.
Oh, Oh, no, no, I think like, like every, every Marine that,
you know, we think we're going to, you know, do a lifetime
(22:54):
career in the military and, you know, go out in a hail of
gunfire, you know, and some major battle and, and get a
Congressional Medal of Honor or something.
I think that's a lot of Marines feel that way.
But no, I didn't. I never never had a clue.
I mean, even the way that I got into the film industry was super
random. I'd like I told you last time
was, you know, it's just kind ofby happenstance.
(23:15):
And yeah, no, I never, never, never thought I'd be doing this
at all. I mean, you did bring up another
topic that you briefly touched on at the beginning of the show,
which is you were kicked out of band class.
Oh yeah, that, that's because I,so I got sent to the band
leaders office. So imagine if you will, OK,
there's this band room semicircle, you know, all the,
(23:37):
all the people are on the instruments.
Let's say you're, you're one of those band members.
So on this side of the glass, there's, there's an office and
there's a big piece of glass. Well, I stood up on that desk
and I went to the window with mycheeks.
And so that oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That yeah. So that happened.
(24:01):
The funniest things have happened in band rooms or band
classes, I think. I think that there should be a
book about it just because I've heard so many stories coming out
of that band room. I mean, you picture a bunch of
musicians and I mean, kind of you picture some kids.
Like back in our day, at least in my band, it was kind of dorky
(24:21):
to be in a band. It's crazy because I love music
so much and I love listening to bands and Oh my gosh, I love it.
I actually didn't want to be in band, but it was one of the
electives. It was like either that or like,
I don't know, Spanish or something, right?
So I was like, I'll just go withthe band.
And I wanted to play drums, but my mom was like, no, you're
going to play the trumpet. And that was I guess funny
(24:43):
because Gabriel and the horn andthe whole thing.
So the. Little Angel wings in the Halo.
Yeah, yeah. So I learned how to play the
trumpet and did not this, not this, not.
I wanted to be in a rock band. I don't want to be in like band.
Guess what instrument I played? OK, hold on.
Let's let's let's let's do this.Like, am I getting close?
I was going to say some. I was going to say either oboe
(25:05):
or clarinet. Yeah, it was the flu and it did
not sound good. I don't think.
I did play the piano though. My mom took me to piano lessons
every single week for a couple years until I told her one day I
never learned to read one note of music I played by ear.
Well, yeah, I, I don't read music either.
So I've, I've learned being in, in Nashville, I've had to learn
(25:28):
the, the number system. It's called the Nashville
numbers, which is basically assigning values with numbers so
that the chart can be transcribed through different,
you know, different starting points.
So if you start in like if you do a 145 and a six minor, that
translates all the way across the note spectrum as long as
the, so like let's say you're GCD and E minor, like that's
(25:49):
like a 145 type of structure, then you can take that and
you're like, oh, we need to do this in the key of G Well then
now everything just shifts over and everything stays the same.
Nothing changes structurally. You don't have to reconfigure a
whole sheet of music. It's just everybody knows now
we're in G and then you just go boom, boom, boom.
Boy, so we've been through your military.
(26:11):
We've been through some of your childhood.
At the beginning of the show last week, we talked about your
birth. Oh yeah.
Your mother's womb. So we talked about dying, which
I want to get into that a littlebit more, OK?
Because nobody else has had the guts to talk about dying with
me. And I'm not morbid, morbid, but
everybody dies and nobody talks about it.
(26:32):
And I think that we should talk about that.
And I think we should talk aboutsuicide too, because suicide is
a big deal. I mean, those listening know
that my father took his own lifeand it was seven months after my
mom passed and it completely shook our world.
People always have told me like,oh, I'm so sorry.
Like he was in a bad spot and they kind of OK it, right?
(26:55):
So they OK suicide. But in my opinion, it's not OK.
And I think more people should say, dude, it's not OK 'cause
you're actually, in my eyes, I feel like it's a very selfish
thing, even though, you know, it's also the what do I think
you even said it before, like last week, it's a a temper or
there's a temporary problem and you give it a.
(27:15):
It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Yeah, yeah, right. So so tell me more.
Yeah, I mean, I've, I've been down that thought process.
You know, a lot of guys go down that thought process.
Not, not just veterans, but guysin general.
You know that. You see a lot of memes out there
about like, you know, if you're a guy and you're hurting, just
(27:36):
remember, nobody cares. Like that's a meme that's out
there. You know that.
Messed. Up well for a long, a long, long
time, you know, and not that I disagree with this, but there is
a immeasurable amount of pressure that's put on men to be
a certain way to, you know, act a certain way, which which I
(27:59):
don't disagree with. I mean, men should be men.
We should carry the weight we should provide.
We should be, you know, that side of a family unit.
There there is that, you know, I, I think that we have as male
and female, I think that there are roles that we are better
suited to fill. Like I'm not going to be a stay
at home dad. There's there's no way that's
(28:19):
ever going to happen, right? I'm going to be the provider.
I'm going to go get the work. I'm going to go make the money.
I'm going to go do that job. You know, the hunter, the
gatherer, I wasn't built that way to stay at home and do that
job, and I think there's a lot of pressure that comes along
with that. There's so much pressure that
comes with that. I have a friend.
He was telling me that basicallyhis wife would threaten him.
(28:44):
I mean, really, at the end of the day, like she would say,
like, you're not, you're not doing good enough.
You're not, you know, you're notbeing a good dad because you're
always working. And then what?
Yeah, right. Like that drives me crazy when I
hear that because. That's the job.
Yeah, and and then they complainlike we don't have enough money
(29:04):
'cause you're not working hard enough, but you're also not a
good dad working too much. Yeah, there is a, a point where,
you know, situations feel reallyimpossible and, and some men
check out, you know, some men decide that that's the the only
course of action that they have.And it's a sad thing.
And like I said, I've, I've beendown that it happened to me
(29:25):
after Afghanistan, but it was because I think one of the big
things, and this is something I would really love to, to hit on.
Is that what they call PTSD or depression or all these
different things that happens toveterans?
It's, it's not because of what we went through.
Like we're, we're mentally tough.
We can go through those things, right?
(29:46):
What it is when you get out of the military, the reason there's
such a high suicide rate after the military is because we've
lost our identity, right? So one point you're this like,
go get him. Tough guy got a uniform, there's
respect. There's a crew of people you
count on, you know, you've got this brotherhood.
And then you get out into the civilian world where everybody's
(30:08):
in it for themselves and the mission doesn't matter and the
guy next to you doesn't matter. And so a lot of guys spiral
because of an identity issue. And I think that's a really hard
thing to deal with. And you have to find your
identity. And once you find your identity,
then you're OK. And that's what happened to me.
Yeah, I think it happens to all of us, and I think it happens to
(30:30):
us more than once in life, a lotof times.
I was having a conversation withone guy.
He was saying that every 10 years there's like a cycle in
his life where he goes through like almost an identity crisis
where he's working the same job and then he gets tired of it and
he doesn't want to do it anymore, but he doesn't feel
like he has another option. And so he goes through the
spiral like every decade. So with with that this actually
(30:56):
2 days ago my friend told me that her her daughters
ex-boyfriend and father of her children killed himself and had
four kids and they're all littlelike under 12 I think.
And I just think, man, you know,for me, I, I was an adult when
it happened and with my dad and I was so upset.
(31:19):
And I've actually never went into the detail, so I'm gonna do
it now, apparently. But I was so upset because I
felt like my dad was always likethe pillar of my life.
He was always that strong guy. He never showed weakness.
I don't think I ever one time ever saw my dad cry.
He was like the strongest personI thought, in my, like, ever.
(31:43):
But there were a couple little warning signs that I didn't
really think about or pay too much attention to.
And one of them was he said he was not going to do the holidays
this, this, that year that he passed.
And the holidays were always a really big deal in our family.
I just thought he meant that he just didn't want to do anything.
But we were like, yeah, we are. We're going to do Thanksgiving
(32:04):
and my brother's going to go pick up this platter from the
house and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, the last night I talked
to him, he's just like, I don't really want to do the holidays.
And it's like, dad, we're going to do the holidays.
I'll be there the day after tomorrow.
And, and that night he literallydecided he, he just really
wasn't going to do the holidays.And for me, I probably should
(32:26):
have known that because my dad and and I look back in the would
of should of you know, but I've never heard my dad say something
that he actually didn't do. I just thought he meant he just
wasn't going to do the holidays.But like going back and
analyzing it. I'm like, oh man, that was his
definitely his way of saying something.
(32:47):
And then he also brought a couple things up to me, like
about a month before that about some things.
And so if you, you know, we're heading into these holidays,
we're on Black Friday right now.Holidays are probably one of the
hardest times of year for this SO.
Yeah, that's I'm, I'm sorry about your dad.
I actually didn't even know that.
(33:08):
Yeah, I mean it. I finally have come to be able
to talk about it. I did go through weird emotions
like from extreme sadness to like not understanding to being
really pissed off. And I'm still kind of like that
pissed phase pissed 'cause he left me, he left my kids.
(33:29):
You know, is my my only person in my life that I completely
ever 1000% trusted to know that he would bury a body if somebody
hurt me. Like he was that kind of guy
one. 100% and I think, I think good dads are that way.
I mean, I have a daughter and I,I, you know, so there's a few
reasons that I never took that road.
(33:51):
And that's what I want to know. Like where were?
I've, I've been all the way to the bottom of that, that barrel,
you know, all the way to the bottom of, of that bottle.
I've been there. And I think it's for me, what
saved me was finding God. I think that's where I found, I
found that I found grace. I found forgiveness in who I was
(34:14):
as a person. And that changed me.
And I realized that my life wasn't my own.
I didn't create it, and to me, Ididn't have the right to take
it. And then I have a daughter and a
son who, you know, would have been devastated without a
father. That's the thing, right?
Yeah, and that was, that was a, you know, I looked at this
(34:36):
little girl, you know, and she's12 right now.
And, and I look at her and I'm like, I don't want someone else
to raise her. Like I couldn't, I couldn't
allow that. I couldn't that, that thought.
And, and even my son is somebodyelse teaching my son to be a
man. You know, those thoughts are
what I looked at. And I'm like, I couldn't, I
(34:58):
couldn't do that, you know, But it was very real for a very,
very long time. You know, I was, I was
struggling like a lot of people do.
And I'll tell you what helped metoo, was two other vets, 11
veteran named Ronnie, who workedat the VA in, in Chico, CA and
he was a Vietnam vet who had gone back when the Gulf War
(35:20):
broke out. And so he did big gaps in
service. And then the other was a guy
named Dick Roberts, who was alsoa Vietnam vet.
And those guys were instrumentalin getting me back into, you
know, a society in, in reintegrating.
And it's not that I had a super hard deployment.
It's not that a lot of crazy stuff happened.
(35:41):
It's just you go to deployments and you go in the military and
like I said, you come out and you lose your identity, you
know, especially when that was your life plan.
Like I'm going to do 30 something years and then then
I'm going to get out and retire like I did 13 now what?
So. Yeah.
Yeah, I think people also don't realize the long term changes
(36:05):
that can be made by just taking small, little short term steps,
right. So a couple years ago, I
remember waking up one morning and I wasn't going to kill
myself. But have you ever been to the
place where you're like, I woke up again, like, I'm still here.
Why? Yes, yeah.
I mean, I've also been to the place where I pray to God and
(36:26):
I'm like, Kyle, just just Take Me Out tonight.
Like, yeah, I'm not going to do it myself.
Could we just speed it up? Or, or I was talking to another
friend of mine and he's like, yeah, have you ever just laid
there and you're just like, OK, trying to will your heart just
like go to sleep robber. So I think, I think that, you
know, I think a lot of people deal with that, but not a lot of
people are going to talk about it because you don't want to be
(36:47):
perceived as weak or you don't want to be perceived as crazy,
you know, like, but the truth is, is it's just human.
You know, life is hard, things are hard.
I think the biggest thing is youjust, you need to reach out, you
know, and, and the other thing on the other side of that coin
is check on people. You know, I have a monster
Rolodex of contacts and I genuinely care about all of
(37:11):
them. I give my number out to vets all
the time, you know, to other people that they're struggling.
And I say, Hey, I don't care what time it is.
If you're, if you're on that road, call me.
Let's talk, you know, you know, let's, let's get you out of
that. Let's move your situation, let's
change things, whatever we got to do.
Like I, I think it's such a, a sad thing when I hear about it
(37:34):
and, and, and it happens like ithappened to my neighbor.
You know, my neighbor killed himself one day and it was one
of those, you know, the day before him and I were hanging
out, super nice guy always came over, always lended a hand.
It's always the really, really good people, you know, that you
meet and then you're surprised. It's like, it's never like the
guy like I always, and this is this is humoristically morbid,
(37:57):
but it's never the guy who everybody thinks is going to
kill himself, right? It's never the guy that you meet
and you're like, that dude's going to off himself.
You know it's never that guy. It's the.
People who are well put together.
Yeah, usually the people who really end up doing it are the
ones who don't talk about it because want the attention on
that. I just watched a video yesterday
(38:19):
actually, and it was two guys sitting in a ball field and
they're having one is having a great time, just like cheering
and. Oh, I saw that.
Yeah, and then the other guy next to him, he looked like he
was really grouchy and he lookeddepressed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was the guy who was happy
and cheering and, you know, killing himself.
Yeah, that's where they they flipped the script at the end of
that. Yeah.
Yeah. And as a as a filmmaker, I
(38:41):
anticipated that because it saidwatch to the end.
And I'm like, OK, you know what I mean?
But no, it is, it's very valid. You know, it's sometimes like
you got to look at a guy like Robin Williams, right?
He was a comedian. He was very outgoing, very
amazing person, you know, from what I understand.
And that's, that's the guy, that's the type of person that
(39:01):
that makes that choice. And so even those people, you
know, you need to check on them.And just like I asked some of my
buddies all the time, like, hey,man, where's, where's your head
at? You know, how, how, how are
things not how you doing? You doing all right?
It's where's your head at? You know, we need to know, I
think we need to know each other.
You know, the, the government, social media, all these things
have done really good isolating us.
(39:23):
You know, we, we isolate. We don't have community like we
used to. You know, that whole village
mentality. You know, we don't, we don't
have that anymore. Our neighborhoods.
I mean, I know three people on my street.
You know. I wouldn't know if any of them
are struggling. Man, I remember when COVID first
happened and in Florida, we really hardly had COVID like
anywhere like, but I remember like maybe the first week, you
(39:47):
know, all the stores are closed down and all that stuff.
And if we were sitting outside, we could hear our neighbors
talking to each other and laughing and having fun because
everything was closed and nobodywas running around and their
workplaces were closed. And that was the best time that
I remember in a long time. And it's the only good thing
that came out of COVID. But you know, that was kind of
(40:09):
unique. I know two guys stories and I'll
hurry up because I want this show to be more about you.
But one guy. Forever changed my life and it's
one of the biggest reasons I continue to to advocate for
military veterans. I met this guy Joey, and it's
Joey Hart. He was in the hospital at Womack
(40:30):
crying the first time I met him and he was on the floor because
he had broken his foot in Afghanistan.
Long story short, he ended up getting addicted to painkillers
while he was in the military andhe tried to kill himself a
couple of times while he was still in the military in the
Warrior Transition Battalion. Who, by the way, treated him
like complete shit. And I will gladly talk about
(40:52):
that these days. I used to be nervous to talk
about that, but I'll gladly talkabout that to any.
Let's be here. I know a guy my my my best
friend who's still a great friend of mine today was was
sent home because he got hit a abunch of times in a in an ambush
and same thing. It was unreal.
(41:12):
Unreal. Yeah, this Warrior Transition
Battalion at Fort Bragg was awful.
And I know why they changed the name now because it's like, OK,
they changed it to Fort Liberty because you can't really Google
that crap anymore. But but they had their Purple
Heart veterans listed on a whiteboard that said bishes,
BISHES instead of bitches, Purple Heart veterans.
And they're having, you know, they had cadre that never even
(41:34):
deployed. But anyways, he did not get
treated right after he came back.
And he was suicidal, I believe, because of that.
And years later, I continued to talk to him and help advocate
for him and helped him get into treatment and things.
But the last time I talked to him, he said he was checking
himself into inpatient. He was really nervous.
He was crying. I was crying because I was
(41:55):
really nervous. But he said, am I going to be
OK? I'm going to go check myself in
here. This should help me, right?
And I remember saying, yes, absolutely do it.
He picked himself out three daysearly and went home and killed
himself. And that was the most
devastating blow, I think. And it is still the reason that
I continue to advocate because he said on that last call, do
(42:18):
you promise that you'll continueto help?
And I promise if I can get help,I'll do the same thing.
So that's kind of where I'm at. The other one though, had a
better story, my friend Adam, and he lets me share his story,
not Adam Burden, a different 1. He texted me in the middle of
the night and I just happened tolook at my phone and it lit up
and it was weird. And he said thanks for
(42:39):
everything you did. I'm sorry, it wasn't enough.
So I called him up and I was like, what are you doing?
It's 4:00 in the morning. And he's like, he didn't say
anything for a good minute. And I'm like, Oh my gosh.
And then finally he said, I justhad a gun in my mouth and I was
like, why are you doing that? Why don't you come get coffee?
Because I didn't know what to say.
Like change his mindset and he'slike, what?
(43:03):
And I was like, boom, come have coffee.
So he came over and had coffee and we went to the hospital.
He checked himself in and he's doing really good today, so.
That's amazing. I mean, and, and that, that
simple gesture, you didn't know what to do, but you did, it is,
is probably very much the reason, one, that you answered
your phone and two, that you intervened, you know, and, and
(43:25):
God puts those people in our lives to do that type of stuff.
You know, these, these intersecting points, you know,
that you look at, I mean, you look back on things and you go,
why, why did I meet that person?Well, it's going to have a
value. Nothing's by chance.
I don't believe in chance. I don't believe in accidents.
I really honestly believe that we meet the people we meet for a
reason. And so you're instrumental in
(43:47):
that man's story, and that's amazing.
Well, you know, it's, it's also a testament of you may not be
able to save every single person, but what's that starfish
scenario? But you can maybe save that one,
You know, don't give up. I'm sure there's a lot of
listeners out there who unfortunately has lost somebody
(44:08):
to suicide. But the next time somebody comes
up in your life, I don't just think it's completely hopeless
because I don't know about you, but I actually, I know that if
somebody's going to do it, it's not my fault they're going to do
it. At the same time, I, I did kind
of blame myself a few times witha couple different situations,
you know, just not, not sure if you could really do anything.
(44:31):
You try and it doesn't work. So.
Yeah, I mean, that's part of, you know, the survivor's guilt.
It's like you always think, oh, I could have done, done more.
I could have done something I could have, you know, whatever
it is, but but the fact is, is you, you couldn't have, you
know, like those people make up their minds.
And it is, in my, in my opinion,a very selfish act.
(44:51):
You know as well, it is very selfish because you're choosing
to check out of everybody else'slife.
You're choosing to check out andyou for some reason think the
world would be better if you weren't there.
And that's it's absolutely incorrect.
You know, it's not I, I don't, Idon't wish death on anyone.
Like not even not even the people I don't like, you know
(45:13):
what I mean? Like I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
wish that on anybody. I think that's that is you just,
there's no coming back from that, you know?
Yeah, and you never know who it's going to affect, right?
So even if it's the biggest jerkin the whole entire world, they
might have that one family member who loves them so.
No, no, I know. And then you also got to look at
(45:34):
it like there's a ripple effect,right?
So, so if you take yourself out of the game, what if down the
road you would have been better and you met somebody who was in
that position and you stopped them or you helped them.
You know well that now that thatthe ripple effect has long, long
lasting ripple. It's an endless ripple.
You know that one action? Yeah.
(45:57):
And even if you think nobody cares about you, still
somebody's going to find you. How's that going to affect that
person, that law enforcement person or, or whoever you know?
Oh, no, it's, it's, it is, it's,it's devastating in a full 360.
There's no, there's no good thatcomes from it.
And so that's why I'm always an advocate as well, you know, like
(46:17):
for, for other people. It's like if you're struggling,
please call somebody, you know, call me.
I don't. I don't care.
And let's not make it so taboo to talk about death and dying.
And I think that's another big part of it because, you know,
you go to the doctor and they ask, I've been in veteran
appointments with them and the doctor will say like, are you
(46:37):
suicidal? Have you been suicidal?
And they're like, Nope, I'm great.
Because it's not, you know, it. Most people doctors not exactly
suicidal right at that moment, you know?
Sure, you know, and and that's those, it's just a the VA
doesn't do a great job with veterans specifically.
And I think that our system getsit wrong too, because we put
(46:59):
labels on people, you know it and it's permanent labels.
It's like, oh, he's suicidal, OK.
It's kind of like being sick, right?
You might be sick right now, buteventually you're going to get
over it, right? You're going to get past it.
And I think with the right medication, not pills, but the
right help, you know, which is aform of medication, you know,
(47:19):
you, you get over things, you get better and, and you do
better when you thrive. But if we just put people in a
box and tell them that they're depressed and they have suicidal
tendencies, and then we've pharmaceutically induced them
into that mindset forever, they never get better.
Absolutely. How long were you suicidal
before you reached out for help,would you say?
(47:42):
And then did anybody else know? Did your family actually
recognize it, or did you kind ofhide it?
Oh, I hit it, but I never see. Here's The thing is I, I
resisted the idea of getting help, you know, and until I
listened and it was like, well, you know, maybe you should go
(48:04):
talk to somebody, right? And at that same time, I was
getting hit from both sides because I just met this guy
named Dick Roberts and and he was flying model airplanes, you
know, like little remote controlairplanes.
And we spent a lot of time together doing that.
And he was teaching me how to fly and all the stuff.
And he just became like this amazing mentor in my life.
(48:26):
And and he was like, well, you know, maybe you should talk to
somebody. Then I was hearing it somewhere
else. And I was so lost at that time
that I remember having that really like introspective
conversation with myself going, maybe you should talk to
somebody because we're not OK right now, you know, and I and I
(48:47):
did, but I don't know if anybodythought it was suicidal.
Maybe they did and they just never said anything.
But it was definitely on the table for a while.
I mean, a solid, I would say a solid couple years of my life
where it was like a thought like, well, it's today the day,
you know, it's a hopeless feeling.
(49:10):
What are some things that you dowhen you start getting like in a
funk? Do you kind of try to change it
or you just go in that funk and keep in funky?
No, you know, I, I seek counsel,you know, I seek counsel.
I, I talked to, I'll talk to my dad, you know, if I'm having a
hard time and I'll talk to, you know, Steve Koza, you know, my
(49:33):
buddy from, from the Marine Corps, the recruiter who's still
instrumental in my life. You know, I talked to those guys
and they help you out. They get you through things, you
know, and, and I talked to God, you know, a lot all day, like,
all right, what are we doing here?
Why are we doing this? You know, I think that's an
intricate, intricate part of my life is, is having the faith
(49:54):
that I have and knowing that there is hope no matter what the
situation is. Yeah, and I kind of went the
other way. I kind of back.
I'm not towards Satan. I'm not saying like, I'm not
saying no. Great all.
Right. Well, this was fun.
Thanks, Patty. We're going to get off this
call. No, but I I definitely stopped
(50:15):
going to church and things and just decided for me just to have
like a more of a personal relationship with God instead of
getting involved with too many churchy things and stuff.
And that's a whole nother show. Yeah, yeah.
Thanks for thanks for listening guys.
You can find me at Gabriel underscore, Ren WR and you can follow
us Flipping Farms show. Thanks.
(50:38):
Thanks everybody for listening. Until next time, definitely go
back through the archives.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.