Could culinary schools be the answer to the ever-growing demand for skilled talent in today's food industry? Join us on this episode of Walk-In Talk as we chat with Chef Kirk Bachman, President and Provost of Auguste Escoffier School of Culinary Arts, to uncover the crucial role culinary education plays in shaping the next generation of chefs. We also revisit last week's inspiring conversation with Chef Thom Favorin from Crab Island Seafood Company, and don't miss our exclusive updates from the Bocuse d'Or competition in New Orleans, where Chef Pooch Rivera interviews top culinary talents.
In this episode, we traverse the milestones of culinary careers through personal stories and professional insights. From the highs of the Bocuse d'Or to the heartfelt moments of coaching Little League baseball, Kirk shares a journey as the son of a master baker in Germany, emphasizing the timeless importance of edu
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Thank you for listening to the Walk-In Talk Podcast, hosted by Carl Fiadini and Company. Our show not only explores the exciting and chaotic world of the restaurant business and amazing eateries but also advocates for mental health awareness in the food industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello Food Fam.
This is the Walk Talk podcastwhere you will find the perfect
blend of food fun and cookingknowledge.
I'm your host, carl Fiodini.
Welcome to the number one foodpodcast in the country.
We're recording on site at IbisImages Studios, where food
photography comes alive and Iget to eat it, oh yeah.
So first things first.
(00:29):
Last week on the show we hadchef and CEO Tom Favren.
He's in charge over at CrabIsland Seafood Company and we
enjoyed a sampling of theirhigh-quality dips and spreads.
Oh wow, so good.
Our convo was about thechallenges of starting a
business and staying determined.
(00:50):
You can do it, you can win.
Go back and listen Today.
You people out there, you everthink about going to culinary
school.
I believe that this is the timeto take advantage of
never-ending staffing challenges, higher pay and advancement
opportunities that are reallyout there.
The food industry needs talentnow more than ever before.
(01:12):
Let's get into why culinaryschools and the industry needs
each other.
This industry of ours ischanging and I think it's
changing for the better.
Our guest this week is Presidentand Provost of Auguste
Escoffier School of CulinaryChef.
Kirk Bachman is on deck.
Stay tuned and, by the way, youshould check out his podcast,
(01:36):
the Ultimate Dish.
I don't usually put out otherpodcasts, but I got to tell you
it's entertaining and I love hiscadence and his energy.
He's a good dude.
I got to tell you it'sentertaining and I love his
cadence and his energy.
He's a good dude.
Chefs, we've been using Metrohot boxes, shelving and their
mobile prep cart around thestudio and we couldn't be
happier.
If you're planning onreorganizing your kitchen life,
be sure you contact our friendsat Metro, your partner in
(01:57):
organization and efficiency.
Okay, so walk and talk is at theBocuse d'Or taking place in New
Orleans right now.
This is the Professional ChefsMount Everest of Culinary
Competitions.
Our very own Chef, pooch Rivera, is at the show.
(02:18):
He's having a blast.
He's giving impromptuinterviews of James Beard,
michelin celebrity chefs who areattending the event.
It's pretty amazing and I'mglad we're there.
I just want to give a bigthanks to Glenn Haggerty of Love
NOLA TV for the invite and thefootage.
Follow our IG at walkintalkshowto follow along.
(02:41):
All right, and, by the way,he's uh, he's had like superstar
chefs already.
Um chefs, uh, sue, uh, suzanneSpicer, uh, carlos Gaetan and
Julio Machado so far, and I knowthere's a lot more to come.
Uh, I keep getting texts likeall over the place Jefferson,
sure, you went to culinaryschool, yeah, and it helped you.
(03:04):
It provided you a pretty hellof a long career.
Good life For the most part,yeah, yeah, where we are today
it's a little scary, right?
Okay, we're going to get into alittle bit more about that, but
first it's pre-shift and we'retalking flan.
(03:29):
Now I don't want to hurt yourfeelings today, it's not.
You know, I love you, you knowI do so.
Just john, okay, um, I folksaudience my mother, my cuban
mother-in-law 70, I shouldn'tsay the age she- I asked her.
I said I said, ma, do me a favor, I want you to make a flan for
(03:52):
the show.
We're gonna shoot it, you know.
Do the photography, john'sgonna make you know, make you a
superstar.
So she did it and, man,nobody's disappointed here, I, I
just enjoyed the hell out of itI think one of us, more than
any of us, enjoyed it more to myright, silent dude, Silent John
.
Yeah, John man.
Well, so first of all, he makesa pretty pretty mean flaunt too
(04:14):
.
John does.
But you know I always have thisthing about our elders you know
mothers, grandparents, you knowgrandmother, specifically when
it comes to food, and when youcan still capture some of that,
like at the ages that we are, tome it makes it, um, even that
much more special.
So the fact that you know johngot to capture something that's
(04:38):
so such a staple in in theculture, in the cuban culture,
for me it was pretty, you know,it means a lot.
Even my wife and you know Ishowed her, I sent a picture
over it.
She was dumbfounded.
So hats off to you, as always,John.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, there was a very.
This is a traditional Cubanflan, is what I got.
Yeah, but it was like a versustoday.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was like the Cuban flan is what I got, yeah, but
it was like a versus today.
It was like the cuban the cubanflan versus the chefified, yeah
flan which, by the way, it wasnothing like flan but was
amazingly delicious.
I told you I would eat.
I would eat a bowl of thatright.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Go ahead and explain what you did so this actually
stems from what two or threeweeks ago now, with chef rosanna
came on and she was.
We talked about flan and I'mlike, oh, smoked flan would be
really good.
Yeah, that's what sparked it.
Last week I did it, overcookedit, the custard went a little
bit too heavy, it got too thick,so I wanted to kind of recreate
(05:40):
it and I found silicone moldsthat I had in the house, did it
again with the same batch.
Now it's going to be reachingout to some friends of mine that
are in pastry that be like allright, this is what I did.
What am I doing wrong?
Because I'm not getting that.
I'm getting a, a mound ofcaramel on the top of it and I
want that mound.
(06:00):
I want it where yourmother-in-law's was like smooth,
yeah, yeah, yourmother-in-law's definitely was
different, texture wise,everything.
It was just your atypical go toCuban restaurant, go to a Cuban
family's house and have theflan.
Like you were talking abouttraditional.
You know Keith always mentionslike when you have food from the
Indian culture and you have theaunties right and I instantly
(06:21):
think of aunties right, and Iinstantly think of aunties like
that's my aunties.
My mother that's who taught me,gave me the palate I have today
and that's the where thepassion comes from and stems
from.
It's all the stuff that waswhen I was a kid, growing up,
and the, the food comas thatwe'd have, having the different
traditions that we would have inour, our home, but having the
family and then certain people.
I have no idea why, but I hadcertain ants that did jello
(06:44):
molds.
I have no idea why jello moldswere even a thing.
I don't think, god, we don't dojello molds anymore Because at
my age I still look at jellomolds and go, uh no, and we're
not talking the J-E-L-L-O, we'retalking like had, like
marshmallows and differentthings in it back in the day.
I don't know where it came from.
I it back in the day.
I don't know where it came from.
I will never make those.
Sorry to everybody that thatsays I love jello molds but I
(07:08):
don't think you're gonna get oneyeah, I just don't.
But I think that's where itstems from, when you're being a
chef and you have that passion.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Um, what's your upbringing?
Well, so, so, speaking ofupbringing and passion, um, I
think a lot of people today whoend up having a desire to get
into culinary and you know,traditionally speaking, you get
into the restaurant business ingeneral because it's a last
(07:36):
resort and in many cases it's.
You know, you find your passiononce you fall into it.
Today, with the advent of thecelebrity chef, you know, over
the last 25 years or so, youhave people that actually seek
to go into culinary and if it'sdriven by passion and it's
(07:59):
driven like for us, like it's,there's a lot of culture and
history, you know, lineage,family, that kind of stuff.
If you take that and you applyit to going to a culinary school
, for example, I feel like thatis, that is the way to go today
and you learn the right way andit's not because your back was
against the wall you know youhad rent or whatever like this
(08:22):
is.
this is a different scenario andwith that I'd like to welcome
chef Kirk Bachman.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Thanks for having me I super entertaining.
I was just gonna go get a get acocktail and a lunch here and
just keep listening to you guys.
This is absolute fabulous.
Thanks for bringing up the uhBoku, by the way.
Um, I've been, I've beentracking it uh online.
How exciting is that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well, so it's super exciting.
I wanted to be there.
We all did here, jeff, and weall wanted to be there and
schedules just didn't allow forit.
Um, but pooch, you know he,pooch Rivera, he's um that's his
home base.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeahooch, you know Pooch Rivera he's, that's his
home base.
Yeah, he's in New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
He's a local favorite chef over there Did you see who
he was with, by the way, whenBig shout out to Amy Sins oh
yeah, she's right next to him,amy.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Sins.
I have the.
He did an interview with heryesterday.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Oh, did he All right great person that we had and she
was one of the first people weever had on.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Remember I think she might've been on the first show.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Actually she was.
It was Ian.
No, I think so Right before Ian, cause that was the, the
brothers Seth and right.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, there was one, or Spent a little time with her,
and she is one of the impromptuinterviews that I have, in fact
, on file.
Nice, yes, so yeah, that's anamazing thing, kirk.
I wish that I were there rightnow.
You know the reports is justlike you know Thomas Keller and
(10:00):
you know Baloo Everybody's there, daniel.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Baloo was there.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Everybody is there.
And it's really, it's reallygained momentum not to cut you
off there.
I mean I get excited too, and weI'm a little bit of a nerd when
it comes to, you know, any sortof information that's going on,
whether it's the James Beardawards, you know Best New
(10:25):
Restaurants in the World Awards,whatever but this is really
really big.
You know, we're probably goingto talk about grit a little bit
today, but you know I want toget up in front of students and
I talk about what thesecandidates put themselves
through to achieve that podium.
It's absolutely fantastic.
(10:46):
Speaking of podiums, if I could, I think when we first
connected I told you I was in areally, really good mood.
I had a great night.
I don't know if you guys havekids.
I've got four kids, three girlsand a boy and my entire life I
have coached my son in something.
First it was soccer.
That's the easiest stuff, right?
(11:07):
No offense to anybody out therethe easiest stuff.
Well, he wasn't good at that,let's just say.
Then I coached him for years inbasketball, right, but baseball
is his thing, right?
Baseball, that's his jam.
He's 13 years old, about to gointo high school, and I coached
him all the way through.
(11:28):
And it hit me last night thegood guys won last night 17 to 7
.
It was unreal 14 hits.
We never have 14 hits in aLittle League ballgame.
So I was already emotionalbecause we've only got one game
left and that's it.
And it hit me that I'm notcoaching anymore.
He's moved, he's alreadyplaying with the local high
(11:49):
school.
They don't want me on the field.
And then, to top it all off, youknow we win the game last night
.
It's a great game, and one ofthe kids, one of his buddies,
who had coached I don't know,maybe five or six years A real
quiet kid, not a talented kid,but a really good kid.
And he just comes over to meand says this was my last game
(12:09):
coach and I just want to thankyou for the last several years.
I didn't know whether to hughim.
You can't do that.
I didn't know whether I wantedto hug him or fry him, but it
really hit me.
But then I get on the call withyou guys today and there's
nothing that can upset me.
Today I was in such a good mood.
I'm a little emotional aboutwalking away from coaching, but
(12:32):
we're going to talk about gritand we're going to talk about
culinary school today, sothat'll keep me going.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, first off, congratulations on that.
And to your boy yeah, you know,we all, you know there's kids,
we have kids here, children, andat the end of the day you know
it's hard to watch them grow upand let go.
But if you were coaching, youknow the same, as you know
(12:57):
there's teaching going on and itkind of ties together and you
know you have to let yourstudents go at some point too.
Same sort of a feel.
So why don't you take, whydon't you take um, take a minute
and give the airplane view ofwho you are, where you came from
and how you landed the uh, youknow the top role over at the
(13:19):
school.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so appreciative, um, and you
know, from a, from a place ofhumility but, more than anything
, of pride, I uh, I've always,uh, I'll tell you a funny story
when we get to it.
But, um, you know, I just grewup, uh, the son of a baker,
fourth generation, my father's.
Uh, the way they do it ingermany, he has what's called
(13:43):
his master breach, so he's asome master do it in Germany.
He has what's called hisMeisterbrief, so it's a master
baker.
And you know, things are alittle different in Europe.
He did that because, in orderto own a bakery, you can work in
a bakery, but you can't own abakery unless you achieve this
level of Meisterbrief.
So it's that.
You know, we call it apartnership over here.
But you know, he did, he didthree-year formal partnership
(14:04):
and a six-year journeymanship,and then, you know, then he's 26
years old and, um, he wanted tocome to america and we landed
in chicago and and, by the way,he was fourth generation, right,
so after the war, and you know,the bakery was gone and all
that uh, but he still pursuedthe passion that his dad and his
grandfather and his grandfathergreat-grandfather did, and we
(14:26):
landed in Chicago.
I came along Like a lot ofimmigrants.
We kind of bounced back andforth between Europe and finally
landed in Chicago for quite awhile and had a bakery down in
the city.
So I was that kid that went topar parochial school in in
downtown chicago.
And, you know, during lunch,you know I looked over and you
(14:49):
know that kid over there hadbologna on white bread and that
kid over there had leftoverpizza from the night before.
And then I looked down at mylunch and I had, uh, I had
liverwurst on rye bread that hadbeen made that morning, and uh
with mustard and onions and anduh, in a beautiful slice of
black forest story.
And and you know, at the time Iwas like God, I just want the,
(15:12):
I want the Cheetos and the andthe bologna sandwich.
But man, I'm, I'm, I'm so, I'mso thankful that they kept
sending me to, uh, to schoolwith those kinds of desserts and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You know I didn't.
I didn't realize it then, Kirkwere you trading at the Black
Forest?
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
All the time the big fan favorite were donuts, though
.
If I could get into the bakery,slip up to the front, you know,
flirt a little with the ladiesup front and I can take a dozen
donuts and long johns we used tocall them.
(15:53):
Those were a fan favorite.
I could get anything I wanted.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I could get on snack pack for that, or I could get a
jello mold that you're talkingabout, kirk, when you show up
with the sweets and Kirk whenyou look at your father and the
baking aspect, when you werekind of finding yourself, or
finding yourself coming to thatpath of cooking, was baking you
(16:19):
know kind of something youwanted to embrace, or you kind
of went the other way wanted toembrace, or is that you?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
you kind of went the other way.
You know I enjoyed it, but Iwas at the, you know I was at
the bottom of the, the totempole, as they say, bottom of the
ladder, right.
So when and I was young, when Iwas doing things in the bakery
now, I always had the best youcan imagine, the best birthday
cakes.
I mean I had rocket ships, Ihad baseball fields.
It was amazing.
But when I worked a little bitin the bakery, it was an old,
(16:51):
old building, an old, old bakerywith wooden floors, and when
you bake all day and their shiftused to be start at three in
the morning, work through theday and then my dad would come
up to our flat at, around youknow, six o'clock or whatever.
Um, it was a long day and andand so you had to go down there
and scrape the floor.
(17:12):
You had literally scrape all ofthe, um, you know the sweet
items and the and the stuff thatfell off the bench.
Um, with a scraper, with alittle foreign scraper right,
and we had all kinds of highschool kids that would come in
and do that stuff.
So, to answer your question, Iwasn't turned on by it.
I enjoyed the food and thefinal products but, man, it's
(17:37):
like really All these sheet pansthat I have to wash and stuff
like that.
But I will tell you that.
You know, shortly thereafter Iwas going into high school and
we relocated to Colorado.
My family bought a hotel and arestaurant and that's where it
all kind of just came togetherfor me in a different way.
(17:58):
You know, my dad was working inthe middle of the night and the
people that enjoyed thoseproducts was working in the
middle of the night and thepeople that enjoyed those
products you know he didn't seethem.
But in the restaurant business,when we were, you know,
cranking stuff off the line andthat, that, that sense of um, uh
, satisfaction that you wouldsee in a customer's face when
(18:19):
you put a beautiful meal infront of them, that's that's
when I started thinking, youknow, maybe I'm not going to
play for the Cubs, but I couldmaybe do this.
I could do this.
I was just like anybody else.
I wanted to play MLB.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Well, what was your position?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Center field.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, yeah, I like second base short.
I didn't mind center man, Itell you what you get older I
want to get out there.
So bad.
But I'm like you know what.
It is not absolutely zeropercent worth popping a
hamstring or an achilles not atyour age.
No, man forget about it that'swhy you coach.
That's why you're into coachingthat's why you see, there you go
, so yeah yeah so let's talkabout the similarities between,
(19:03):
uh, professional technicalskills and the differences of
how you would learn through anonline application, and I kind
of just jumped ahead a littlebit, but I kind of want to set
the stage to what this is.
And you work, you're with.
(19:24):
It's the largest onlineculinary school around, am I
wrong?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
No, no, no, Even if you just look at you know pure
population.
You have two ground campusesand then the online presence.
You know upwards of 7000students.
Yeah, we, we have a nicepresence here in America.
And you know, I think that thereally cool thing to do is to
(19:52):
sort of back up a little bit andand and let everybody know that
you know, for me, um, edu,education is super, super
important, um, and that that'sprobably what I learned from my
dad.
I'm going to kind of fold thatgrit piece into that.
You know, great, on thebaseball field with these, with
these young kids, is about um, Ineed you to slide, I need you
(20:15):
to slide, you can't just run thesecond base.
You got to slide, you got toslide and you got to get dirty,
you got to get under the tag,and it's not easy at first, but
when they start demonstratingthe grit that they I mean they
want it, they really want it,and so it's the same thing.
It's the same thing in ourindustry.
(20:35):
I went to the University ofOregon, tried to play baseball
there for a bit.
It was really important to myfamily that I got an education
and if you asked my dad, todayhe's 88, if you would call him
up right now and say, hey, whatdid Kirk study in college?
He'd have no idea, because forhim it was a means to an end.
(20:56):
Right, he, it was the, theamerican dream.
Um, my dad loves america andand and the opportunity that he
got here and he just wanted hisfamily, you know, to take that
on.
So when I finished at theuniversity of oregon, came back,
worked in family business andthen he sent me back to a small
culinary school in portland,oregon's, where he knew some of
(21:17):
the chefs and even though I hadbeen working in his kitchen, he
knew that I needed someone elseto kind of create some formality
around it.
And I really enjoyed it.
I really, really enjoyed it.
And that was old school right.
That's where knowledge was kept.
You had to go to culinaryschool.
I applied to the CIA in NewYork and I got accepted.
(21:40):
For the following year I waslike no, you're going to
culinary school next week.
So I went up to Portland andreally, really, really enjoyed
it.
It was old school, right.
All of our chefs were fromEurope.
We were there eight hours a day, you had to be clean-shaven and
(22:03):
all that.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
It was a little rough right, that's just the way it
was back then.
Jeff is over here shaking hishead.
I'm just getting triggered.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's why I don't wear white.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
He's getting some memories, right.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, I don't wear white, getting some memories
right.
Yeah, I don't wear white I meanhe's.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
He's not lying.
You gotta ask.
Jeffrey was, hey, jeffrey wasum was for them.
That's there.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
When you were at cia yeah, well, no, I wasn't at cia,
so mets used to come down tojohnson and wales because he
knew robert norgrad and robertwas a dear, dear, huge, huge
culinarian for me in my pastbecause it was just an honor to
have.
So Robert Norgreib was actuallyone of the first American chefs
that was a master chef, hisstory chef.
(22:45):
Do you know his story, robertNorgreib Of?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
how he became a chef.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
So one day I'm sitting in quantitative and he
sits next to me and he speaksall these different languages.
Obviously he's from Austria andI sat down and I asked him.
I said so how did you become achef?
And he goes in auschwitz.
Only the people that cooked gotto eat.
And I just stood there for asecond like what did he just say
?
And then he made a like a jokeabout it.
(23:11):
Afterwards and I'm no beingjewish myself and having studied
that world history part I wasamazed that I met somebody who
survived it and out of that,from the ashes, he became a chef
and then the first master chef.
He was an amazing individual,so ferdinand used to go down and
talk to him a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
so I met ferdinand yeah, yeah, great, great, yeah,
shivers, and you know.
So, coming coming back to goinggoing to culinary school myself
and really enjoying it, beingable to apply, you know what I
learned in the business then youknow, for for quite some time,
(23:51):
for me it really it became.
It became about the educationWorking alongside my father.
Coming back to the grit piece,I got to tell you and I'm sure
that you guys love to talk aboutunreasonable hospitality, but
it was.
It was about customer service,it was grit, it was about
(24:15):
creating a positive environmentin that restaurant.
The customer drove everything.
If a customer didn't like a meal, there was no conversation.
It was we get the customersomething that they want right
100%.
But the most interesting thing,you know, working alongside my
(24:36):
father for years was was whatwere some of the intangibles
that I just never even thoughtabout?
He'd come up out of nowhere andbasically just say so what are
you going to do, in this thickGerman accent, if the ice
machine breaks down, like out ofnowhere?
You know services in 15 minutes.
What are you going to do if theice machine breaks down?
You know, and I probably hadsome, you know, smarty pants.
(24:59):
Answers back then, you know,like I don't know, dad, I would
call you.
I don't know, I don't know Right, but but I I don't.
I don't care if you go toschool online or you go to
school in person or you do anapprenticeship.
I'm just such a big fan oftrying harder and thinking
(25:20):
outside of the box and grit.
But I will say that almostevery day I sit on the Boulder
Colorado campus but I manage theonline population through here,
but I have the luxury of allthe kitchens here so I can go
talk to the chef instructors allthe time.
And what's really changed,really changed.
(25:42):
I know I'm jumping back andforth, but what's really really
changed is that our students arereally smart and they know what
they want and they likeimmediate gratification.
I was listening to one of yourearlier episodes and the whole
conversation around social mediacame up and it's super, super
(26:03):
interesting how our studentsconnect to us with and through
social media.
So it used to be like I saidwhen I went to culinary school
you had to go because that'swhere knowledge was kept, but
not today.
I just encourage our teachersto be facilitators of knowledge.
(26:25):
Just flip the classroom right,listen to your students, you
know, give them assignments andthat sort of stuff.
But listen to them, listen tostories of their heritage and
you know the flan stories youknow from their grandparents and
stuff like that.
That's where we are today, soit is an exciting time.
(26:46):
My population in Colorado andin Austin has gotten really
young, really really young, witha huge emphasis on pastry.
Young, really, really young,with a huge emphasis on pastry.
A lot of people really, reallyinterested in pastry.
But this younger populationknows exactly what they want and
and how they want to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
How wrong was I in my opening monologue when I say
that the industry needs thecreatives, they need these, they
need young blood, energy.
Um, because I feel therethere's just this void of talent
, and I don't mean talented, Ijust mean personnel.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I'm an optimist and I talk to as many restauranteurs
as I can here.
Everything sort of shifted.
I used to get really, reallyworried when I was younger.
What's going to happen when theAustrian chefs and the German
chefs and the French chefsretire and they're no longer
here?
Who are we going to learn from?
And and and, then god, then thecurtis stuffies and then the
(28:00):
gavin casens, and you know, thenext generation just came
pouring on through and and uh,uh I I got even more and more
and more excited.
Curtis stuff is a big fan, abig friend of the school, and so
I use him a as a beautifulexample of what, you know, the
culinary world looks like to metoday and we bring him in front
(28:22):
of our students.
It's super, super, superexciting.
I, I think the industry likewhen I talk to some
restaurateurs here, they'rethey're excited about the fact
that they can do more for theiremployees in terms of wages and
benefits and things like that,but they have to do more with
(28:43):
fewer because they can't affordto have the massive staffs that
they used to have.
Remember the days in therestaurant business where you'd
bring your staff at five o'clockwas a little different than the
staff at seven, right?
So if you got hit with a rushand it took you, you know, from
five to seven, 30, everybodystayed.
(29:03):
But for some reason, you know,you know people decided to go do
something else and you didn'tget that second rush, you just
cut people loose, right?
I don't know that.
That's the scenario that wehave today.
They're doing more, they'recutting away from, you know,
lunch service, breakfast service, things like that.
(29:24):
I do think that it's a really,really exciting.
Well, I see it.
I see that it's an excitingtime for young people coming
into this industry because thereis a ton of opportunity in
these places that need them.
Surely, we bring as manyemployers you know for the
ground campuses, we just bringthem here, do career fairs and
(29:45):
things like that.
So that's exciting for thestudents.
Online, we do a lot of thatvirtually, of course, we can
chat more about online, if youlike and like how that all works
, how, how they, how they learnand such for me, chef.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Um, one of the things we talked about is now with
social media and the way thingsare like.
I follow this young kid who isum, he's probably in his 20s and
he's got a massive followingand he does all these different
things.
He's self-taught.
How do you get somebody likethat to say, hey, you still need
to go to culinary school?
And how do you approach that assomebody?
(30:19):
Because you know, again,schools had to change the way
things were post-covid, evenprior to covid, because you and
I talked about how the irschanged things too.
So if we can get into some ofthat, that'd be fantastic as
well.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
You know, I, for me and this sounds like a cliche
what I see it's, it's, it's,it's not an either or it's an
hand, right?
Um?
So I use two examples.
Um, there's a, there's a reallyI won't say his name, but
there's a great restaurant tourabout 300 yards from from our
school and he's got a greatbusiness.
(30:56):
Great business.
I hadn't met him for quite sometime.
He's been there for 31 yearsand I go there all the time.
I love it.
It's casual, but it's really,really, really good.
And he hires a ton of ourstudents, a ton.
And I walked in not that longago it was a really, really,
(31:17):
really busy night and I was withmy wife and a bunch of other
people and we're trying to get atable.
And my wife knew him and, youknow, pulled me over to
introduce me to him and heimmediately, you know, just went
down this like why should Ihire your students?
Why should your students go toschool for X when I can pay them
$25 an hour to come to school?
(31:38):
And of course, you know I'veheard it before, right?
So you know, I just shook hishand and said gosh, it's so good
to meet you.
And you know, I'm just going totell you that we don't make
anyone come to school.
It's their choice.
It's their choice that theywant to come to school.
They don't have to go to school.
We want to educate those whowant to be with us, right, and
(32:03):
now he's like my best friend,right, so he just he loved the
response, right, and we'veworked better together now.
But coming back to my commentof it can be an, and coming back
to my comment of it can be an,and, and I'm going to use the
example of the podcast that Ihost, right, the Ultimate Dish.
So when that started, it wasall about, you know, friends of
(32:26):
Kirk, all you know, ed Leonard,all these people that I've known
in the industry for years.
And let's just talk about theindustry.
Let talk about food, it willmatter.
Let's talk about what you'vedone in your career and all of
that stuff.
Right, and my marketing team.
You know, maybe a year and ahalf a year, and started really
(32:49):
focusing on and I'm sorry, somekids are pounding in the pastry
lab next door there.
Hopefully that's not too loud,but it's real.
I mean I got 20 pastry kidsright around the corner here.
It's character man, we love itand they walk by and they see
I've got a big sign on therethat says I'm on a podcast.
(33:10):
I'll be there in a minuteBecause they just walked into my
.
I was sitting in kind of a glassbowl but I didn't.
I have to be honest with youguys, I and I didn't, I, I
didn't know about the what theycall influencers on on social
media and Instagram.
I like Instagram for sports,right.
I like following, you know DeonSanders and Michael Jordan and
(33:33):
seeing how my teams are doing.
But then all of a sudden, youknow Gabby Dalkin and Danielle
Suspy and Dan Dan Grosie Pelosiyou probably know I mean Daphne
Oz.
These people have unbelievablefollowings and they're
influencers and they may nothave fallen to culinary school,
(33:53):
but they have one thing incommon with all of us they have
a passion for cooking and theylove the craft.
They freaking love the craft.
So for me, those have been someof the best conversations that
I've had on my show with peoplewho you know they're not
(34:17):
pretentious, they, you knowwe're not necessarily talking
about ACF metals, but we aretalking about really, really,
really cool dishes, right?
So, um, I and, and, and I thinkthe Scoffier, um, and I hate it
when I get too far into themarketing stuff, but I think
(34:51):
Escoffier uses social media as away, you know, to connect our
students and our instructors andour fans and our families and
our followers and whomever withthe authentic Escoffier.
So we have a studio in Chicagowhere we do all of our formal
content for the program.
It's pretty sophisticated, it'spretty cool actually.
But for social media they justwant student work.
They don't want anything that'sstaged, they want everything
(35:11):
that's genuine, authentic,organic, as they say.
That's genuine, authentic,organic, as they say.
So I spend a good part of myday, you know, cruising around
the classrooms and just gettingthe students to laugh and talk
and tell me what they're workingon, and you know that sort of
thing.
I've given you way too much ofan answer for a simple question.
I apologize.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It's not that really simple.
I mean, it's one of those arethe things, the basis for the
industry that we need to change.
I mean, 25, 30 years ago I was,you know, a server.
Then I got into the kitchen andit was Patrick Utter from
Shenanigans in Hollywood thatsaid to me, if I had the
opportunity to go to culinaryschool and you have it, because
Miami was just opening up forJohnson and Wales I would go
(35:56):
there.
And it was.
It was him that was the onethat kind of mentored me to take
that ship and then take thatlighthouse to cruise on over to
being in the industry.
But I'd already been doing itfor 12 years.
So when I went in, I went induring the weekends.
So I worked the five, five daysa week, actually six days a
week in the industry.
(36:16):
I had two jobs during the weekone and two during the weekend,
and I went Saturday and Sundaysfor 12 hours.
And you talk about the grid,you talk about the difference of
wanting to be there and havingto be there.
Most of the people in my class,because we were the weekend, we
had 250 that started out.
I think we graduated with only12.
(36:37):
Oh wow, those 12 people hadgrit, look chef, what, what is
it that that?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
um, it's hard.
I wish I could jar it right.
I wish I could can it, but it'sit, you said it perfectly.
Wanting and having to be there.
It's, you know, feeling thatrush when the wheel is full.
Right, the past is just madness, right, but some people, those
(37:06):
who have grit, that's when theykick in.
I mean they kick in, and othersit's not.
For them, it's like any sport,though, or any field, right, you
know, not everyone can, youknow, step up to the next level.
Think about what we all wentthrough, you know, during the
(37:30):
pandemic.
It was a lonely time, right.
And I think about, you knowjust, the demographic of who
goes to culinary school.
So, for our Brown campuses,it's pretty mixed, right, you
know about 50-50 female learnersto male learners, but when I
look at, like, hot maps or heatmaps, you know where, I see
(37:51):
where all of our students are.
This idea of someone think aboutsomebody who lives in a rural
area and maybe doesn't have alot of money, but has always
just loved to cook because theirgrandmother cooked, or their
grandfather cooked, or theirmother cooked.
(38:13):
And what online education didfor these folks?
Is it allowed them to access itin the privacy and the comfort
of their own home, without theadditional cost of relocating
across the country, having topay rent, you know, elsewhere,
leave their families, maybe,leave people that they're taking
(38:34):
care of.
And what's really, reallyinteresting about all of that is
that, you know, just prior tothe pandemic coming through the
pandemic coming out of thepandemic, our student population
for online has flipped to 70female, 30 male, so it's
historically been an easyentrance for males into the
(38:58):
industry, but what onlineeducation allowed females to do
was is to follow their passion,and that's one of the things
that I'll, you know, really lookback on with with.
You know, some sense ofsatisfaction and pride that we,
we what just innovation, right?
(39:18):
Online education gave thisopportunity to be a cook for
life, to to engage in the craftof cooking that they may never
have been able to do previously.
So many, so many schools haveclosed right.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Yeah, that's one of the things I was going to get
into.
So, with that being said, likeI'm sitting here and I know
about online, we've talked offair and some of the chefs that
will be listening to this andwill be saying how do you do an
online class and how are theygoing to taste the food?
How do they know it's the rightway of doing it?
If they've never made it before?
(39:55):
How do they know it's?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
the right way of doing it.
If they've never made it before, how do they go about doing
something like that?
Yeah, yeah, and this isprobably a whole different
podcast, right, a wholedifferent conversation, and it,
historically, is the number onequestion we get, right, who
tastes the food?
Who tastes the food?
So, you know, first andforemost, we're proud of the
(40:20):
chef instructors that have cometo work for us, so they, too,
are passionate about theindustry.
They're experienced and the wayit basically works is that, you
know, we have a learningmanagement system, so the
students basically have theircourses online.
They can access this from theirlaptop, from their iPad, from
(40:41):
their phone.
Most students, quite honestly,access everything from their
phone, so they have theopportunity to view all kinds of
demonstrations of a variety ofall the traditional techniques
and that sort of stuff, and theyflow through the program just
(41:02):
like any other culinary school.
Right, they have sanitation andintroduction to culinary arts,
and they have their introductionto baking and gamage and things
like that, their introductionto baking and gamage and things
like that.
It's asynchronous for the mostpart, meaning the students can
(41:25):
access their information whenit's comfortable for them.
That's why online educationmakes sense for them, right?
They're either taking care oftheir family or they're working,
and they can only dedicate Xamount of time to this
asynchronous experience.
There are a few times duringthe week where they have the
opportunity to jump into livesessions with their chef
instructors, where they can askquestions or they can discuss,
(41:48):
or they can watch a demo andthat sort of thing.
But the genesis of all of it,the genius of all of this, is
our students are provided withall sorts of direction, right.
We came up with this really,really cool.
I have one sitting right herein front of me.
It's called the Flavor Wheel.
So you know, chef, what'sreally, really important is that
(42:09):
you can.
Muscle memory will get somebodythrough roasting a chicken or
searing a piece of protein theway that chef wants them to.
But the cognitive piece iswhat's so, so important?
Do they understand what they'redoing?
Do they understand therelationship between aroma,
taste and mouthfeel?
(42:29):
So we've created both a digitaland a physical flavor wheel.
Think of it as like a tatavan,just a small little tool that
helps students understand thatwords like full-bodied,
comforting, appetizing, butterybriny that might reflect
(42:53):
something that's savory, right,whereas something that's peppery
or spiced or fiery, that mightbe spicy, or a lot of our
students that come to us.
They don't know therelationship between aroma,
taste and mouthfeel, so we haveto help them with that.
So then they get theirassignment right.
They're in the comfort of theirown home, they've gone through
(43:16):
their shopping list, they knowexactly what ingredients they
need, they've seen the videos.
Then they execute and then theytake a series of photos with
the phone and then they uploadit into the system.
Very, very simple.
We use a tool to just uploadthe photos right from their
phone into our LMS and then eachone of our instructors is
(43:40):
required to create a videofeedback loop for the students.
So they take a look at everysingle photo and the photos are
all very organized, right?
So you have your mise en placephoto.
You have to demonstrate a pHstrip so that we know that your
sanitation is where it'ssupposed to be.
(44:01):
Then you have severalin-process photos, right?
If you're making empanadas, weneed to see the dough, we need
to see the dough resting, weneed to see the salsa that you
make to go with it, and so onand so forth.
And then they make that video.
They call it a 10 or 15-minutevideo that every instructor has
(44:23):
to provide to every student forevery assignment that they
upload.
So to answer the question ofwho tastes the food, the student
tastes the food.
So the student does all of that, they do the cooking and then
they have to provide a narrative.
They have to be able to explainto the instructor what's
(44:45):
happening and good, bad and uglyright so that the instructor
can make that educatedassessment on whether or not the
student is grasping the conceptthat they're being taught or
have the opportunity to betaught.
So that's basically how itworks and we have a variety of
(45:10):
different programs.
So obviously our culinaryprogram is focused on culinary
pastry and pastry andplant-based, and plant-based and
plant-based, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
So does that help a little bit?
A little, yeah, of course itdoes.
But that leads me to a question.
So you know plant-based andfarm-to-table, like what sort of
what data shows what studentsare most interested in?
Do you have you know whatbrings them to the school most?
Is it because you know rightnow plant-based, you know food
(45:42):
is trending, or is it becausesomebody you know wants to learn
?
You know traditional or classic, classically trained, you know
culinary arts, like what is itthat's bringing them in?
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah, by far the most popular program is our is our
culinary arts and operationsprogram.
That's, that's our.
You know, our basic culinaryarts program.
Pastry arts would be, you know.
Second to that, we the theprograms like plant-based and
food, entrepreneurship andholistic wellness.
(46:18):
They're more boutique programs.
You don't have as many studentsin those, but those are very,
very intentional, pointedstudents that know exactly what
they want.
We do plant-based education hereon ground, in Boulder and
online, and I have to tell you Iwant to talk about grit they're
the most educated.
(46:38):
They come to us with a wealthof knowledge.
This education is allowing themthe freedom to express
themselves.
They already know what theywant.
They want to go out into theworld and they want to make a
difference, and they don'tnecessarily need to land in a
restaurant or a hotel that isexclusively plant-based.
(47:00):
They want to bring theirmessage and help enhance other
establishments that may not havea robust, you know, plant-based
menu and that sort of thing.
And I should say and, chef, youprobably remember this from your
days at JWU that it's a veryhighly regulated industry when
(47:26):
you think about education.
So all of our students thatcome to school, there's
milestones, there's requirementsfrom our accreditors of how
many students have to finish theprogram, and then you know, on
top of that, how many studentsneed to find gainful employment
in the industry.
(47:47):
So if someone comes to us andthey're seeking a plant-based
education, it's ourresponsibility to help them find
employment in that field Notthe pastry field, not the
culinary arts field, not thehospitality, restaurant
management field, but in theplant-based field.
That's what they came to schoolfor and that's what our
(48:07):
responsibility is.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
How do you go about assisting or aiding in that job
search?
Speaker 2 (48:16):
or aiding in that job search.
Yeah, we have an immensecollection of resources for both
online and on-ground, so westart early too.
So student comes to school,they immediately are introduced
to our career servicesdepartment.
We try to get some of thatinformation up front when they
(48:36):
first come to school, like whatare you looking to do and what
are your goals?
And some students don't reallyknow what they want to do.
Many do, many do I want to openup a food truck, I want to work
for Curtis Duffy, I want to goto New York, I want to go to
Germany, whatever it is.
(48:57):
And then we work together withthe student.
We don't hand them their path,they work with us on their path.
So it's a lot of conversations,it's a lot of interaction, it's
a lot of introductions todifferent employers that come to
the campus and then they gothrough the program, whether on
ground or online, and everyone,even the online students, have
(49:20):
to complete an externship at theend of their program, meaning
that they have to go to aphysical establishment and
execute x amount of hours tocomplete the entire program.
More times than not, we try tohelp students land in an
externship at a very attractiveplace to them a place where they
(49:44):
may want to stay, and a highpercentage of our students
actually convert from theirexternship site to their first,
you know, real job in theindustry.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
What I think is interesting is how the legacy
continues with the greatgrandson Michael Escoffier, and
he's, you know, an active boardmember or on the advisory board.
I should say, how does thatplay into all of this?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, so, and thanks for bringing that up.
He's not only you know, alegacy, but Michel is you know,
he's a friend.
He's very, very active.
He turned 80 in March.
I talked to him last night.
He spends his time, he shareshis time between Nice.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
He shares his time between Nice and Nice.
From our previous conversationoffline and now my French.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
my French reading and pronunciation is horrible, Of
course, so say that, say thatyou have a different French
version than what he just saidAbsolutely, I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
But can you say, say, say the location again, lulule.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Lulule.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Bay Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Wonderful, but can you say the location again,
lulule Villaloo Bay.
Okay, wonderful Villaloo Bay.
Yeah, I'll send it to you.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
It won't look anything like it's spelled, not
naturally.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's a little scrambled, yeah, it takes
a minute, but yeahelle isactively involved in and and and
the really cool thing is, ifyou ever get to villa lula bay,
it's not tough.
Um, you know direct flightsfrom denver to, uh, uh, to
(51:50):
frankfurt or to paris, and thenyou can shoot down into the
south of france.
But, um, the home that augustescoffier grew up in, um for the
last 50 years, was was turnedinto a museum by by michelle and
his family, and um, it'sprobably four or five stories
(52:11):
high and it just it's acollection, just name it.
Um, it's, it's unbelievable.
You know the original deskwhere Auguste wrote.
You know some of the 6,000recipes from Le Guy.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
La Repertoire de Cuisine is one of the main ones
that he's done for La Repertoirede Cuisine.
Sorry, chef, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
No, it's all there.
And so, for example, inSeptember, I will take a group
of 13 or 14 or 15 employees ofour company.
We'll dine and we'll hang withMichelle, we'll tour the museum,
and so it's kind of a it's,it's, it's, uh, you know it's a
cool story.
Um, michelle was never a chef.
(53:05):
He, he, he went into the worldof banking, as did his father
before him, um, but I, I'venever met an individual who
uhquently and you know, just hassuch reverence for you know his
great grandfather's history.
He speaks often, not every year, but every fall we have a large
(53:31):
graduation, as you can imagine,large graduation, as you can
imagine, and we do it on thecampus of Colorado University
here in Boulder, in a beautiful,beautiful auditorium called
Mackey, and you know there's twoor three thousand people show
up.
The majority are the onlinestudents who come from all parts
of the country to to walkacross the stage.
And you know, let's say, everyother year, michelle will make
(53:53):
the trip and you know, addressthe crowd.
So you know what that does it itis, you know, it's um, it's a
connection is what it is it's,it's, it's validation right like
gosh, this is real, this is areal, this is a real brand,
right it's?
(54:14):
Uh, you remember?
Um so so, johnson Wales, carlCarl Guggenmoss was he around
when you were a student?
Speaker 3 (54:21):
Uh, miami, miami location, no, not so much
Probably Providence, though.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Yeah, yeah.
But, um, you know, being beinga student of this craft for as
many years as I have, you knowwhen.
When you would say you know,you know theinary Institute of
America, you would say you know.
For Ned Matz, you would say JayWu, you would say, carl, you
know, you know, so on and soforth.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
And so you know, for us, you know, augusta Scoffier
is is, is really, really, reallyimportant and we have somebody
here who's not into the foodscene as much he does food
photography and maybe otherpeople listening.
What is the big deal aboutAuguste Escoffier?
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Because people might not know.
Yeah, it's a long, long story.
(55:29):
Think about imagining a humanbeing who, 100 years ago, was a
great cook, right, but alsobrought some based on his.
You are going to focus on theprotein cookery, you're going to
focus on the vegetable cookery,you're going to focus on the
roasting, so on and so forth.
So he brought a brigade system,as we like to refer to it, to
(55:52):
the kitchen.
He and Korem before him werereally respectful about the
craft and the uniform and tolook good in the kitchen.
You know, there's stories thatMichelle tells of Auguste being
really really concerned withbenefits and working conditions
and work-life balance a hundredyears ago for his chefs.
(56:15):
And then I'm looking at my bookright now.
You know, le Guy, it's not arecipe book, it's a book of
technique, right.
So it's a difficult book tomaster, it's a difficult book to
read, um, but it, uh, it, uh,it laid the foundation of
(56:44):
technique driving, uh, educationin our field versus, you know,
a collection of recipes.
So we try to focus to that it.
For example, sauteing is an art, right, it's really really
interesting, um, and importantthat a student understands the
technique of sautéing and thenwe'll introduce different flavor
profiles and differentingredients which we might find
(57:06):
are applied to sautéing aroundthe world rather than a recipe
of sautéing, and other schoolsmay do that as well, but that
certainly is what we try to doat Escoffier.
So Augustus Escoffier, I guessin many ways was known as the
king of chefs and the chef ofkings.
He partnered with Cesar Ritz,you know, years and years and
(57:29):
years ago and brought just adifferent level of cuisine you
know to to to the world.
We were in new york city injanuary for a big event at, uh,
uh, john george's place, um,where we inducted some, some
folks into an organization thatwe call the disciples of the
(57:50):
scoffier.
So it's a gourmand, uh, society.
And Jean-Georges comes to theevent and he has, he sees Michel
, they embrace and, you know,say hello, they'd met before.
And Jean-Georges has a copy ofMcGee that I don't even know how
(58:13):
old it was.
It was kind of held togetherwith rubber bands.
He had found it in France yearsand years earlier, right, and
he brought it.
It was really frail, the pageswere fragile and yellow, but
Michel signed it.
So I don't know if that shiversyour spine like it does mine a
(58:34):
a book that was written 100years ago.
Um, you know, still gets a chefwith the reputation of jean
george.
Um, excited, that's.
Uh, that's augustus coffier.
That's that's what he does forour industry.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Well, I think, I think it.
It kind of brings it fullcircle to what we were talking
about in the beginning of thehour, where it's passion and a
lot of it comes from lineage anda lot of it comes from the past
, um, you know, and how there'sa direct lineage to.
(59:21):
For me, I appreciate that in ahundred different ways and I
feel like students who are onthe fence about um, you know
well, should I, should I do sucha thing?
I want to go to school as atrade school, I want to be a
chef.
What I want to be, I think youknow.
You find your passion, you takeit, you look at you, look at
this, this culinary school.
It's prestigious, it has thelineage, it, yes, that's what
(59:44):
you want, yeah, and I'll go onestep further.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
So regular college.
I went to regular college.
I have degrees with that too.
I was nowhere near assuccessful as I was in culinary
school.
I graduated second in my class,not the 12th I had.
That was just the as successfulas I was in culinary school.
I graduated second in my class,not the 12th I had.
That was just the weekendprogram.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
So there was more, but there was only three.
There were three people.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
But it was different because again.
Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
It posed that thing of being passionate and I had
that.
That's where I always, at 12years old, I knew I wanted to
become a chef.
I just didn't know how to getthere.
There was Jacques Pepin, therewas Julia Childs, there was the
Galloping Gourmet, karim Kher,that's who I watched.
And then in the 90s we hadEmeril come out and he was the
JW guy.
So it's like, oh cool, but itwas already in the industry at
(01:00:29):
that point.
And it's ironic because youmentioned something about
customer service and you know wementioned different things.
I have, um, ironically,yesterday I just put out a blog
about what the whining kitchenaid, and it's about culinary and
people asking chefs why theyshould be going in the culinary
field.
(01:00:49):
And now I'm taking the lookback and going.
I'm so more, so many more yearsare behind me, that what's in
front of me, what's left.
So I have the two differentperspectives and it's really
interesting because as we gainup in age, it's like what's left
for us to do, what's left forus to accomplish, and there's so
(01:01:09):
much more still left in thetank, for me at least.
And there's, you know,mentoring is one of those two,
and there's.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
You know, mentoring is one of those two.
Really well said.
I love that you brought upJacques Pepin.
He said once that a great chefis first a great technician.
If you're a jeweler or asurgeon or a cook, you have to
know the trade in your hand.
You have to learn the process.
(01:01:38):
And again, for me it's not aneither, or it's an and um the
grit, the passion and all.
Can I tell you?
Do we have time for anotherstory?
I got to tell you the story Foryou.
Of course.
No, john, john will cut you off.
We won't.
Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Somebody's standing over here with one of those
umbrella hooks and they'retrying to put.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
They're like kaboom, jeffrey, you're an ACF guy.
I have been most of my life,since 1988.
And I'll never forget the day Ican't remember I think it's
when I achieved CWC, right, itused to be a little bit more
difficult because you used tohave to do these things in front
(01:02:18):
of a certified chef, and it'schanged over the years, but
anyway, I'll never forget.
I got that certificate and Iwas really excited to show it to
my dad and my dad was makingcroissants or something, right?
Yeah, his apron was all dirty.
And so I come over there and helooks at it and he doesn't say
(01:02:39):
anything.
And so I just take mycertificate and I walk away and
a couple of hours later, maybe aday later, he pulls me over and
he says he says congratulationson your certificate.
I'm young, right, he's stillbaking.
You know much older.
And he says congratulations.
(01:03:02):
I just want you to remember onething, one thing all the pieces
of paper in the world willnever replace wanting to be a
great cook for life, and I don'tknow if anyone has ever said
that before.
I've stolen his quote on manyInstagram posts and different
(01:03:22):
things like that, but back then,all all he ever wanted me to
aspire to was to be a great cookfor life for life, right.
And that's just dabbling in it.
You're not just doing a summerjob.
Be a great cook for life.
I just wanted to share that hewas on my podcast too.
Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Oh, that's cool Having his dad in.
Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Here's what I want to do Say what your dad's name is,
and then say the quote again.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
You got it.
My father's name is JosephBachman and the basic quote is
aspire to be a great cook forlife.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
And that is beautiful .
I did not get to have my dad onmy podcast, so that's awesome
for you.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be awesome for his
grandkids and his greatgrandkids and that as well,
right?
So it's just, uh, I had forthem that's on, um, you know, a
few weeks ago, um, it wasphenomenal.
It was phenomenal, he, he, hetold stories, um, he would have
kept going, he I don't know ifyou guys know, he wrote a book
not too long ago.
(01:04:39):
He'll love that.
I just bugged his book, butit's, it's.
This is a craft that you haveto love and and you have to want
, uh, to persevere or have gritto stay, to stay involved, and
and that's really all I want mystudents, our students at
Escoffier, I just want them tohave that chance.
(01:05:00):
If they live in a rural areaand they just want to follow
their passion, we're coming tothem so that we can kind of help
them.
Getting too emotional with youguys, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
No, it's Well listen.
Life is emotion.
Well, it's passion.
Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
It is and it proves the point that when you have
that much passion, you can thenget, hopefully give part of that
passion to the students.
And I, you know, being aninstructor, you're also a mentor
and you're also all coach andall these different things being
in the school system.
But you, you, you were first achef and it's just amazing the
life you've done and, to thispoint, what you do for the, the
(01:05:40):
actual industry in our community.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Oh, thank you Very, very kind.
This, this was a lot of fun andif we can ever do anything for,
for you, for you guys, please,please, let me know.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Yeah, we're, we're gonna, I think we'll, we're,
we're going to have a continueddialogue going forward.
I'm fairly certain of that.
Why don't you go ahead?
And how do we?
How do?
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
how does everyone find you?
You can literally find us atEscoffieredu and you can find us
on what is my, what is ourinstagram?
It's, uh, I should know thatoff the top of my.
That's the stuff you're atschools.
Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yes, nobody's gonna hold it off the top of no, this
is the no judgment zone.
Okay, if I don't write it down,I I can't remember anything,
all right, I don't even know mywife's phone number.
That you have to know.
That you have to know and I'mnot deleting that, that's not
getting omitted from this thing.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Don't ever listen to this.
That's out there, okay, allright, I'll give her a heads up.
Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
You know, oh my God, I wanted to say a bunch of
things right there and I learnedhow to keep my mouth shut.
Finally, we're not putting foodin there.
Kirk Bachman find him at theUltimate Dish.
His podcast Awesome.
Check him out.
Thanks for being on the show,kirk.
Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Keep on cooking, we are out.
Hello Food Fam.
This is the Walk Talk podcastwhere you will find the perfect
blend of food fun and cookingknowledge.
I'm your host, carl Fiodini.
Welcome to the number one foodpodcast in the country.
We're recording on site at IbisImages Studios, where food
photography comes alive and Iget to eat it, oh yeah.
So first things first.
(00:29):
Last week on the show we hadchef and CEO Tom Favren.
He's in charge over at CrabIsland Seafood Company and we
enjoyed a sampling of theirhigh-quality dips and spreads.
Oh wow, so good.
Our convo was about thechallenges of starting a
business and staying determined.
(00:50):
You can do it, you can win.
Go back and listen Today.
You people out there, you everthink about going to culinary
school.
I believe that this is the timeto take advantage of
never-ending staffing challenges, higher pay and advancement
opportunities that are reallyout there.
The food industry needs talentnow more than ever before.
(01:12):
Let's get into why culinaryschools and the industry needs
each other.
This industry of ours ischanging and I think it's
changing for the better.
Our guest this week is Presidentand Provost of Auguste
Escoffier School of CulinaryChef.
Kirk Bachman is on deck.
Stay tuned and, by the way, youshould check out his podcast,
(01:36):
the Ultimate Dish.
I don't usually put out otherpodcasts, but I got to tell you
it's entertaining and I love hiscadence and his energy.
He's a good dude.
I got to tell you it'sentertaining and I love his
cadence and his energy.
He's a good dude.
Chefs, we've been using Metrohot boxes, shelving and their
mobile prep cart around thestudio and we couldn't be
happier.
If you're planning onreorganizing your kitchen life,
be sure you contact our friendsat Metro, your partner in
(01:57):
organization and efficiency.
Okay, so walk and talk is at theBocuse d'Or taking place in New
Orleans right now.
This is the Professional ChefsMount Everest of Culinary
Competitions.
Our very own Chef, pooch Rivera, is at the show.
(02:18):
He's having a blast.
He's giving impromptuinterviews of James Beard,
michelin celebrity chefs who areattending the event.
It's pretty amazing and I'mglad we're there.
I just want to give a bigthanks to Glenn Haggerty of Love
NOLA TV for the invite and thefootage.
Follow our IG at walkintalkshowto follow along.
(02:41):
All right, and, by the way,he's uh, he's had like superstar
chefs already.
Um chefs, uh, sue, uh, suzanneSpicer, uh, carlos Gaetan and
Julio Machado so far, and I knowthere's a lot more to come.
Uh, I keep getting texts likeall over the place Jefferson,
sure, you went to culinaryschool, yeah, and it helped you.
(03:04):
It provided you a pretty hellof a long career.
Good life For the most part,yeah, yeah, where we are today
it's a little scary, right?
Okay, we're going to get into alittle bit more about that, but
first it's pre-shift and we'retalking flan.
(03:29):
Now I don't want to hurt yourfeelings today, it's not.
You know, I love you, you knowI do so.
Just john, okay, um, I folksaudience my mother, my cuban
mother-in-law 70, I shouldn'tsay the age she- I asked her.
I said I said, ma, do me a favor, I want you to make a flan for
(03:52):
the show.
We're gonna shoot it, you know.
Do the photography, john'sgonna make you know, make you a
superstar.
So she did it and, man,nobody's disappointed here, I, I
just enjoyed the hell out of itI think one of us, more than
any of us, enjoyed it more to myright, silent dude, Silent John
.
Yeah, John man.
Well, so first of all, he makesa pretty pretty mean flaunt too
(04:14):
.
John does.
But you know I always have thisthing about our elders you know
mothers, grandparents, you knowgrandmother, specifically when
it comes to food, and when youcan still capture some of that,
like at the ages that we are, tome it makes it, um, even that
much more special.
So the fact that you know johngot to capture something that's
(04:38):
so such a staple in in theculture, in the cuban culture,
for me it was pretty, you know,it means a lot.
Even my wife and you know Ishowed her, I sent a picture
over it.
She was dumbfounded.
So hats off to you, as always,John.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, there was a very.
This is a traditional Cubanflan, is what I got.
Yeah, but it was like a versustoday.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It was like the Cuban flan is what I got, yeah, but
it was like a versus today.
It was like the cuban the cubanflan versus the chefified, yeah
flan which, by the way, it wasnothing like flan but was
amazingly delicious.
I told you I would eat.
I would eat a bowl of thatright.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Go ahead and explain what you did so this actually
stems from what two or threeweeks ago now, with chef rosanna
came on and she was.
We talked about flan and I'mlike, oh, smoked flan would be
really good.
Yeah, that's what sparked it.
Last week I did it, overcookedit, the custard went a little
bit too heavy, it got too thick,so I wanted to kind of recreate
(05:40):
it and I found silicone moldsthat I had in the house, did it
again with the same batch.
Now it's going to be reachingout to some friends of mine that
are in pastry that be like allright, this is what I did.
What am I doing wrong?
Because I'm not getting that.
I'm getting a, a mound ofcaramel on the top of it and I
want that mound.
(06:00):
I want it where yourmother-in-law's was like smooth,
yeah, yeah, yourmother-in-law's definitely was
different, texture wise,everything.
It was just your atypical go toCuban restaurant, go to a Cuban
family's house and have theflan.
Like you were talking abouttraditional.
You know Keith always mentionslike when you have food from the
Indian culture and you have theaunties right and I instantly
(06:21):
think of aunties right, and Iinstantly think of aunties like
that's my aunties.
My mother that's who taught me,gave me the palate I have today
and that's the where thepassion comes from and stems
from.
It's all the stuff that waswhen I was a kid, growing up,
and the, the food comas thatwe'd have, having the different
traditions that we would have inour, our home, but having the
family and then certain people.
I have no idea why, but I hadcertain ants that did jello
(06:44):
molds.
I have no idea why jello moldswere even a thing.
I don't think, god, we don't dojello molds anymore Because at
my age I still look at jellomolds and go, uh no, and we're
not talking the J-E-L-L-O, we'retalking like had, like
marshmallows and differentthings in it back in the day.
I don't know where it came from.
I it back in the day.
I don't know where it came from.
I will never make those.
Sorry to everybody that thatsays I love jello molds but I
(07:08):
don't think you're gonna get oneyeah, I just don't.
But I think that's where itstems from, when you're being a
chef and you have that passion.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Um, what's your upbringing?
Well, so, so, speaking ofupbringing and passion, um, I
think a lot of people today whoend up having a desire to get
into culinary and you know,traditionally speaking, you get
into the restaurant business ingeneral because it's a last
(07:36):
resort and in many cases it's.
You know, you find your passiononce you fall into it.
Today, with the advent of thecelebrity chef, you know, over
the last 25 years or so, youhave people that actually seek
to go into culinary and if it'sdriven by passion and it's
(07:59):
driven like for us, like it's,there's a lot of culture and
history, you know, lineage,family, that kind of stuff.
If you take that and you applyit to going to a culinary school
, for example, I feel like thatis, that is the way to go today
and you learn the right way andit's not because your back was
against the wall you know youhad rent or whatever like this
(08:22):
is.
this is a different scenario andwith that I'd like to welcome
chef Kirk Bachman.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Thanks for having me I super entertaining.
I was just gonna go get a get acocktail and a lunch here and
just keep listening to you guys.
This is absolute fabulous.
Thanks for bringing up the uhBoku, by the way.
Um, I've been, I've beentracking it uh online.
How exciting is that.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Well, so it's super exciting.
I wanted to be there.
We all did here, jeff, and weall wanted to be there and
schedules just didn't allow forit.
Um, but pooch, you know he,pooch Rivera, he's um that's his
home base.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeahooch, you know Pooch Rivera he's, that's his
home base.
Yeah, he's in New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
He's a local favorite chef over there Did you see who
he was with, by the way, whenBig shout out to Amy Sins oh
yeah, she's right next to him,amy.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Sins.
I have the.
He did an interview with heryesterday.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Oh, did he All right great person that we had and she
was one of the first people weever had on.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Remember I think she might've been on the first show.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Actually she was.
It was Ian.
No, I think so Right before Ian, cause that was the, the
brothers Seth and right.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Well, there was one, or Spent a little time with her,
and she is one of the impromptuinterviews that I have, in fact
, on file.
Nice, yes, so yeah, that's anamazing thing, kirk.
I wish that I were there rightnow.
You know the reports is justlike you know Thomas Keller and
(10:00):
you know Baloo Everybody's there, daniel.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Baloo was there.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Everybody is there.
And it's really, it's reallygained momentum not to cut you
off there.
I mean I get excited too, and weI'm a little bit of a nerd when
it comes to, you know, any sortof information that's going on,
whether it's the James Beardawards, you know Best New
(10:25):
Restaurants in the World Awards,whatever but this is really
really big.
You know, we're probably goingto talk about grit a little bit
today, but you know I want toget up in front of students and
I talk about what thesecandidates put themselves
through to achieve that podium.
It's absolutely fantastic.
(10:46):
Speaking of podiums, if I could, I think when we first
connected I told you I was in areally, really good mood.
I had a great night.
I don't know if you guys havekids.
I've got four kids, three girlsand a boy and my entire life I
have coached my son in something.
First it was soccer.
That's the easiest stuff, right?
(11:07):
No offense to anybody out therethe easiest stuff.
Well, he wasn't good at that,let's just say.
Then I coached him for years inbasketball, right, but baseball
is his thing, right?
Baseball, that's his jam.
He's 13 years old, about to gointo high school, and I coached
him all the way through.
(11:28):
And it hit me last night thegood guys won last night 17 to 7
.
It was unreal 14 hits.
We never have 14 hits in aLittle League ballgame.
So I was already emotionalbecause we've only got one game
left and that's it.
And it hit me that I'm notcoaching anymore.
He's moved, he's alreadyplaying with the local high
(11:49):
school.
They don't want me on the field.
And then, to top it all off, youknow we win the game last night
.
It's a great game, and one ofthe kids, one of his buddies,
who had coached I don't know,maybe five or six years A real
quiet kid, not a talented kid,but a really good kid.
And he just comes over to meand says this was my last game
(12:09):
coach and I just want to thankyou for the last several years.
I didn't know whether to hughim.
You can't do that.
I didn't know whether I wantedto hug him or fry him, but it
really hit me.
But then I get on the call withyou guys today and there's
nothing that can upset me.
Today I was in such a good mood.
I'm a little emotional aboutwalking away from coaching, but
(12:32):
we're going to talk about gritand we're going to talk about
culinary school today, sothat'll keep me going.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, first off, congratulations on that.
And to your boy yeah, you know,we all, you know there's kids,
we have kids here, children, andat the end of the day you know
it's hard to watch them grow upand let go.
But if you were coaching, youknow the same, as you know
(12:57):
there's teaching going on and itkind of ties together and you
know you have to let yourstudents go at some point too.
Same sort of a feel.
So why don't you take, whydon't you take um, take a minute
and give the airplane view ofwho you are, where you came from
and how you landed the uh, youknow the top role over at the
(13:19):
school.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, so appreciative, um, and you
know, from a, from a place ofhumility but, more than anything
, of pride, I uh, I've always,uh, I'll tell you a funny story
when we get to it.
But, um, you know, I just grewup, uh, the son of a baker,
fourth generation, my father's.
Uh, the way they do it ingermany, he has what's called
(13:43):
his master breach, so he's asome master do it in Germany.
He has what's called hisMeisterbrief, so it's a master
baker.
And you know, things are alittle different in Europe.
He did that because, in orderto own a bakery, you can work in
a bakery, but you can't own abakery unless you achieve this
level of Meisterbrief.
So it's that.
You know, we call it apartnership over here.
But you know, he did, he didthree-year formal partnership
(14:04):
and a six-year journeymanship,and then, you know, then he's 26
years old and, um, he wanted tocome to america and we landed
in chicago and and, by the way,he was fourth generation, right,
so after the war, and you know,the bakery was gone and all
that uh, but he still pursuedthe passion that his dad and his
grandfather and his grandfathergreat-grandfather did, and we
(14:26):
landed in Chicago.
I came along Like a lot ofimmigrants.
We kind of bounced back andforth between Europe and finally
landed in Chicago for quite awhile and had a bakery down in
the city.
So I was that kid that went topar parochial school in in
downtown chicago.
And, you know, during lunch,you know I looked over and you
(14:49):
know that kid over there hadbologna on white bread and that
kid over there had leftoverpizza from the night before.
And then I looked down at mylunch and I had, uh, I had
liverwurst on rye bread that hadbeen made that morning, and uh
with mustard and onions and anduh, in a beautiful slice of
black forest story.
And and you know, at the time Iwas like God, I just want the,
(15:12):
I want the Cheetos and the andthe bologna sandwich.
But man, I'm, I'm, I'm so, I'mso thankful that they kept
sending me to, uh, to schoolwith those kinds of desserts and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You know I didn't.
I didn't realize it then, Kirkwere you trading at the Black
Forest?
Yeah, all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
All the time the big fan favorite were donuts, though
.
If I could get into the bakery,slip up to the front, you know,
flirt a little with the ladiesup front and I can take a dozen
donuts and long johns we used tocall them.
(15:53):
Those were a fan favorite.
I could get anything I wanted.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I could get on snack pack for that, or I could get a
jello mold that you're talkingabout, kirk, when you show up
with the sweets and Kirk whenyou look at your father and the
baking aspect, when you werekind of finding yourself, or
finding yourself coming to thatpath of cooking, was baking you
(16:19):
know kind of something youwanted to embrace, or you kind
of went the other way wanted toembrace, or is that you?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
you kind of went the other way.
You know I enjoyed it, but Iwas at the, you know I was at
the bottom of the, the totempole, as they say, bottom of the
ladder, right.
So when and I was young, when Iwas doing things in the bakery
now, I always had the best youcan imagine, the best birthday
cakes.
I mean I had rocket ships, Ihad baseball fields.
It was amazing.
But when I worked a little bitin the bakery, it was an old,
(16:51):
old building, an old, old bakerywith wooden floors, and when
you bake all day and their shiftused to be start at three in
the morning, work through theday and then my dad would come
up to our flat at, around youknow, six o'clock or whatever.
Um, it was a long day and andand so you had to go down there
and scrape the floor.
(17:12):
You had literally scrape all ofthe, um, you know the sweet
items and the and the stuff thatfell off the bench.
Um, with a scraper, with alittle foreign scraper right,
and we had all kinds of highschool kids that would come in
and do that stuff.
So, to answer your question, Iwasn't turned on by it.
I enjoyed the food and thefinal products but, man, it's
(17:37):
like really All these sheet pansthat I have to wash and stuff
like that.
But I will tell you that.
You know, shortly thereafter Iwas going into high school and
we relocated to Colorado.
My family bought a hotel and arestaurant and that's where it
all kind of just came togetherfor me in a different way.
(17:58):
You know, my dad was working inthe middle of the night and the
people that enjoyed thoseproducts was working in the
middle of the night and thepeople that enjoyed those
products you know he didn't seethem.
But in the restaurant business,when we were, you know,
cranking stuff off the line andthat, that, that sense of um, uh
, satisfaction that you wouldsee in a customer's face when
(18:19):
you put a beautiful meal infront of them, that's that's
when I started thinking, youknow, maybe I'm not going to
play for the Cubs, but I couldmaybe do this.
I could do this.
I was just like anybody else.
I wanted to play MLB.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Well, what was your position?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Center field.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Okay, yeah, I like second base short.
I didn't mind center man, Itell you what you get older I
want to get out there.
So bad.
But I'm like you know what.
It is not absolutely zeropercent worth popping a
hamstring or an achilles not atyour age.
No, man forget about it that'swhy you coach.
That's why you're into coachingthat's why you see, there you go
, so yeah yeah so let's talkabout the similarities between,
(19:03):
uh, professional technicalskills and the differences of
how you would learn through anonline application, and I kind
of just jumped ahead a littlebit, but I kind of want to set
the stage to what this is.
And you work, you're with.
(19:24):
It's the largest onlineculinary school around, am I
wrong?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
No, no, no, Even if you just look at you know pure
population.
You have two ground campusesand then the online presence.
You know upwards of 7000students.
Yeah, we, we have a nicepresence here in America.
And you know, I think that thereally cool thing to do is to
(19:52):
sort of back up a little bit andand and let everybody know that
you know, for me, um, edu,education is super, super
important, um, and that that'sprobably what I learned from my
dad.
I'm going to kind of fold thatgrit piece into that.
You know, great, on thebaseball field with these, with
these young kids, is about um, Ineed you to slide, I need you
(20:15):
to slide, you can't just run thesecond base.
You got to slide, you got toslide and you got to get dirty,
you got to get under the tag,and it's not easy at first, but
when they start demonstratingthe grit that they I mean they
want it, they really want it,and so it's the same thing.
It's the same thing in ourindustry.
(20:35):
I went to the University ofOregon, tried to play baseball
there for a bit.
It was really important to myfamily that I got an education
and if you asked my dad, todayhe's 88, if you would call him
up right now and say, hey, whatdid Kirk study in college?
He'd have no idea, because forhim it was a means to an end.
(20:56):
Right, he, it was the, theamerican dream.
Um, my dad loves america andand and the opportunity that he
got here and he just wanted hisfamily, you know, to take that
on.
So when I finished at theuniversity of oregon, came back,
worked in family business andthen he sent me back to a small
culinary school in portland,oregon's, where he knew some of
(21:17):
the chefs and even though I hadbeen working in his kitchen, he
knew that I needed someone elseto kind of create some formality
around it.
And I really enjoyed it.
I really, really enjoyed it.
And that was old school right.
That's where knowledge was kept.
You had to go to culinaryschool.
I applied to the CIA in NewYork and I got accepted.
(21:40):
For the following year I waslike no, you're going to
culinary school next week.
So I went up to Portland andreally, really, really enjoyed
it.
It was old school, right.
All of our chefs were fromEurope.
We were there eight hours a day, you had to be clean-shaven and
(22:03):
all that.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
It was a little rough right, that's just the way it
was back then.
Jeff is over here shaking hishead.
I'm just getting triggered.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's why I don't wear white.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
He's getting some memories, right.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah, I don't wear white, getting some memories
right.
Yeah, I don't wear white I meanhe's.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
He's not lying.
You gotta ask.
Jeffrey was, hey, jeffrey wasum was for them.
That's there.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
When you were at cia yeah, well, no, I wasn't at cia,
so mets used to come down tojohnson and wales because he
knew robert norgrad and robertwas a dear, dear, huge, huge
culinarian for me in my pastbecause it was just an honor to
have.
So Robert Norgreib was actuallyone of the first American chefs
that was a master chef, hisstory chef.
(22:45):
Do you know his story, robertNorgreib Of?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
how he became a chef.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
So one day I'm sitting in quantitative and he
sits next to me and he speaksall these different languages.
Obviously he's from Austria andI sat down and I asked him.
I said so how did you become achef?
And he goes in auschwitz.
Only the people that cooked gotto eat.
And I just stood there for asecond like what did he just say
?
And then he made a like a jokeabout it.
(23:11):
Afterwards and I'm no beingjewish myself and having studied
that world history part I wasamazed that I met somebody who
survived it and out of that,from the ashes, he became a chef
and then the first master chef.
He was an amazing individual,so ferdinand used to go down and
talk to him a lot.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
so I met ferdinand yeah, yeah, great, great, yeah,
shivers, and you know.
So, coming coming back to goinggoing to culinary school myself
and really enjoying it, beingable to apply, you know what I
learned in the business then youknow, for for quite some time,
(23:51):
for me it really it became.
It became about the educationWorking alongside my father.
Coming back to the grit piece,I got to tell you and I'm sure
that you guys love to talk aboutunreasonable hospitality, but
it was.
It was about customer service,it was grit, it was about
(24:15):
creating a positive environmentin that restaurant.
The customer drove everything.
If a customer didn't like a meal, there was no conversation.
It was we get the customersomething that they want right
100%.
But the most interesting thing,you know, working alongside my
(24:36):
father for years was was whatwere some of the intangibles
that I just never even thoughtabout?
He'd come up out of nowhere andbasically just say so what are
you going to do, in this thickGerman accent, if the ice
machine breaks down, like out ofnowhere?
You know services in 15 minutes.
What are you going to do if theice machine breaks down?
You know, and I probably hadsome, you know, smarty pants.
(24:59):
Answers back then, you know,like I don't know, dad, I would
call you.
I don't know, I don't know Right, but but I I don't.
I don't care if you go toschool online or you go to
school in person or you do anapprenticeship.
I'm just such a big fan oftrying harder and thinking
(25:20):
outside of the box and grit.
But I will say that almostevery day I sit on the Boulder
Colorado campus but I manage theonline population through here,
but I have the luxury of allthe kitchens here so I can go
talk to the chef instructors allthe time.
And what's really changed,really changed.
(25:42):
I know I'm jumping back andforth, but what's really really
changed is that our students arereally smart and they know what
they want and they likeimmediate gratification.
I was listening to one of yourearlier episodes and the whole
conversation around social mediacame up and it's super, super
(26:03):
interesting how our studentsconnect to us with and through
social media.
So it used to be like I saidwhen I went to culinary school
you had to go because that'swhere knowledge was kept, but
not today.
I just encourage our teachersto be facilitators of knowledge.
(26:25):
Just flip the classroom right,listen to your students, you
know, give them assignments andthat sort of stuff.
But listen to them, listen tostories of their heritage and
you know the flan stories youknow from their grandparents and
stuff like that.
That's where we are today, soit is an exciting time.
(26:46):
My population in Colorado andin Austin has gotten really
young, really really young, witha huge emphasis on pastry.
Young, really, really young,with a huge emphasis on pastry.
A lot of people really, reallyinterested in pastry.
But this younger populationknows exactly what they want and
and how they want to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
How wrong was I in my opening monologue when I say
that the industry needs thecreatives, they need these, they
need young blood, energy.
Um, because I feel therethere's just this void of talent
, and I don't mean talented, Ijust mean personnel.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I'm an optimist and I talk to as many restauranteurs
as I can here.
Everything sort of shifted.
I used to get really, reallyworried when I was younger.
What's going to happen when theAustrian chefs and the German
chefs and the French chefsretire and they're no longer
here?
Who are we going to learn from?
And and and, then god, then thecurtis stuffies and then the
(28:00):
gavin casens, and you know, thenext generation just came
pouring on through and and uh,uh I I got even more and more
and more excited.
Curtis stuff is a big fan, abig friend of the school, and so
I use him a as a beautifulexample of what, you know, the
culinary world looks like to metoday and we bring him in front
(28:22):
of our students.
It's super, super, superexciting.
I, I think the industry likewhen I talk to some
restaurateurs here, they'rethey're excited about the fact
that they can do more for theiremployees in terms of wages and
benefits and things like that,but they have to do more with
(28:43):
fewer because they can't affordto have the massive staffs that
they used to have.
Remember the days in therestaurant business where you'd
bring your staff at five o'clockwas a little different than the
staff at seven, right?
So if you got hit with a rushand it took you, you know, from
five to seven, 30, everybodystayed.
(29:03):
But for some reason, you know,you know people decided to go do
something else and you didn'tget that second rush, you just
cut people loose, right?
I don't know that.
That's the scenario that wehave today.
They're doing more, they'recutting away from, you know,
lunch service, breakfast service, things like that.
(29:24):
I do think that it's a really,really exciting.
Well, I see it.
I see that it's an excitingtime for young people coming
into this industry because thereis a ton of opportunity in
these places that need them.
Surely, we bring as manyemployers you know for the
ground campuses, we just bringthem here, do career fairs and
(29:45):
things like that.
So that's exciting for thestudents.
Online, we do a lot of thatvirtually, of course, we can
chat more about online, if youlike and like how that all works
, how, how they, how they learnand such for me, chef.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Um, one of the things we talked about is now with
social media and the way thingsare like.
I follow this young kid who isum, he's probably in his 20s and
he's got a massive followingand he does all these different
things.
He's self-taught.
How do you get somebody likethat to say, hey, you still need
to go to culinary school?
And how do you approach that assomebody?
(30:19):
Because you know, again,schools had to change the way
things were post-covid, evenprior to covid, because you and
I talked about how the irschanged things too.
So if we can get into some ofthat, that'd be fantastic as
well.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
You know, I, for me and this sounds like a cliche
what I see it's, it's, it's,it's not an either or it's an
hand, right?
Um?
So I use two examples.
Um, there's a, there's a reallyI won't say his name, but
there's a great restaurant tourabout 300 yards from from our
school and he's got a greatbusiness.
(30:56):
Great business.
I hadn't met him for quite sometime.
He's been there for 31 yearsand I go there all the time.
I love it.
It's casual, but it's really,really, really good.
And he hires a ton of ourstudents, a ton.
And I walked in not that longago it was a really, really,
(31:17):
really busy night and I was withmy wife and a bunch of other
people and we're trying to get atable.
And my wife knew him and, youknow, pulled me over to
introduce me to him and heimmediately, you know, just went
down this like why should Ihire your students?
Why should your students go toschool for X when I can pay them
$25 an hour to come to school?
(31:38):
And of course, you know I'veheard it before, right?
So you know, I just shook hishand and said gosh, it's so good
to meet you.
And you know, I'm just going totell you that we don't make
anyone come to school.
It's their choice.
It's their choice that theywant to come to school.
They don't have to go to school.
We want to educate those whowant to be with us, right, and
(32:03):
now he's like my best friend,right, so he just he loved the
response, right, and we'veworked better together now.
But coming back to my commentof it can be an, and coming back
to my comment of it can be an,and, and I'm going to use the
example of the podcast that Ihost, right, the Ultimate Dish.
So when that started, it wasall about, you know, friends of
(32:26):
Kirk, all you know, ed Leonard,all these people that I've known
in the industry for years.
And let's just talk about theindustry.
Let talk about food, it willmatter.
Let's talk about what you'vedone in your career and all of
that stuff.
Right, and my marketing team.
You know, maybe a year and ahalf a year, and started really
(32:49):
focusing on and I'm sorry, somekids are pounding in the pastry
lab next door there.
Hopefully that's not too loud,but it's real.
I mean I got 20 pastry kidsright around the corner here.
It's character man, we love itand they walk by and they see
I've got a big sign on therethat says I'm on a podcast.
(33:10):
I'll be there in a minuteBecause they just walked into my
.
I was sitting in kind of a glassbowl but I didn't.
I have to be honest with youguys, I and I didn't, I, I
didn't know about the what theycall influencers on on social
media and Instagram.
I like Instagram for sports,right.
I like following, you know DeonSanders and Michael Jordan and
(33:33):
seeing how my teams are doing.
But then all of a sudden, youknow Gabby Dalkin and Danielle
Suspy and Dan Dan Grosie Pelosiyou probably know I mean Daphne
Oz.
These people have unbelievablefollowings and they're
influencers and they may nothave fallen to culinary school,
(33:53):
but they have one thing incommon with all of us they have
a passion for cooking and theylove the craft.
They freaking love the craft.
So for me, those have been someof the best conversations that
I've had on my show with peoplewho you know they're not
(34:17):
pretentious, they, you knowwe're not necessarily talking
about ACF metals, but we aretalking about really, really,
really cool dishes, right?
So, um, I and, and, and I thinkthe Scoffier, um, and I hate it
when I get too far into themarketing stuff, but I think
(34:51):
Escoffier uses social media as away, you know, to connect our
students and our instructors andour fans and our families and
our followers and whomever withthe authentic Escoffier.
So we have a studio in Chicagowhere we do all of our formal
content for the program.
It's pretty sophisticated, it'spretty cool actually.
But for social media they justwant student work.
They don't want anything that'sstaged, they want everything
(35:11):
that's genuine, authentic,organic, as they say.
That's genuine, authentic,organic, as they say.
So I spend a good part of myday, you know, cruising around
the classrooms and just gettingthe students to laugh and talk
and tell me what they're workingon, and you know that sort of
thing.
I've given you way too much ofan answer for a simple question.
I apologize.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It's not that really simple.
I mean, it's one of those arethe things, the basis for the
industry that we need to change.
I mean, 25, 30 years ago I was,you know, a server.
Then I got into the kitchen andit was Patrick Utter from
Shenanigans in Hollywood thatsaid to me, if I had the
opportunity to go to culinaryschool and you have it, because
Miami was just opening up forJohnson and Wales I would go
(35:56):
there.
And it was.
It was him that was the onethat kind of mentored me to take
that ship and then take thatlighthouse to cruise on over to
being in the industry.
But I'd already been doing itfor 12 years.
So when I went in, I went induring the weekends.
So I worked the five, five daysa week, actually six days a
week in the industry.
(36:16):
I had two jobs during the weekone and two during the weekend,
and I went Saturday and Sundaysfor 12 hours.
And you talk about the grid,you talk about the difference of
wanting to be there and havingto be there.
Most of the people in my class,because we were the weekend, we
had 250 that started out.
I think we graduated with only12.
(36:37):
Oh wow, those 12 people hadgrit, look chef, what, what is
it that that?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
um, it's hard.
I wish I could jar it right.
I wish I could can it, but it'sit, you said it perfectly.
Wanting and having to be there.
It's, you know, feeling thatrush when the wheel is full.
Right, the past is just madness, right, but some people, those
(37:06):
who have grit, that's when theykick in.
I mean they kick in, and othersit's not.
For them, it's like any sport,though, or any field, right, you
know, not everyone can, youknow, step up to the next level.
Think about what we all wentthrough, you know, during the
(37:30):
pandemic.
It was a lonely time, right.
And I think about, you knowjust, the demographic of who
goes to culinary school.
So, for our Brown campuses,it's pretty mixed, right, you
know about 50-50 female learnersto male learners, but when I
look at, like, hot maps or heatmaps, you know where, I see
(37:51):
where all of our students are.
This idea of someone think aboutsomebody who lives in a rural
area and maybe doesn't have alot of money, but has always
just loved to cook because theirgrandmother cooked, or their
grandfather cooked, or theirmother cooked.
(38:13):
And what online education didfor these folks?
Is it allowed them to access itin the privacy and the comfort
of their own home, without theadditional cost of relocating
across the country, having topay rent, you know, elsewhere,
leave their families, maybe,leave people that they're taking
(38:34):
care of.
And what's really, reallyinteresting about all of that is
that, you know, just prior tothe pandemic coming through the
pandemic coming out of thepandemic, our student population
for online has flipped to 70female, 30 male, so it's
historically been an easyentrance for males into the
(38:58):
industry, but what onlineeducation allowed females to do
was is to follow their passion,and that's one of the things
that I'll, you know, really lookback on with with.
You know, some sense ofsatisfaction and pride that we,
we what just innovation, right?
(39:18):
Online education gave thisopportunity to be a cook for
life, to to engage in the craftof cooking that they may never
have been able to do previously.
So many, so many schools haveclosed right.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Yeah, that's one of the things I was going to get
into.
So, with that being said, likeI'm sitting here and I know
about online, we've talked offair and some of the chefs that
will be listening to this andwill be saying how do you do an
online class and how are theygoing to taste the food?
How do they know it's the rightway of doing it?
If they've never made it before?
(39:55):
How do they know it's?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
the right way of doing it.
If they've never made it before, how do they go about doing
something like that?
Yeah, yeah, and this isprobably a whole different
podcast, right, a wholedifferent conversation, and it,
historically, is the number onequestion we get, right, who
tastes the food?
Who tastes the food?
So, you know, first andforemost, we're proud of the
(40:20):
chef instructors that have cometo work for us, so they, too,
are passionate about theindustry.
They're experienced and the wayit basically works is that, you
know, we have a learningmanagement system, so the
students basically have theircourses online.
They can access this from theirlaptop, from their iPad, from
(40:41):
their phone.
Most students, quite honestly,access everything from their
phone, so they have theopportunity to view all kinds of
demonstrations of a variety ofall the traditional techniques
and that sort of stuff, and theyflow through the program just
(41:02):
like any other culinary school.
Right, they have sanitation andintroduction to culinary arts,
and they have their introductionto baking and gamage and things
like that, their introductionto baking and gamage and things
like that.
It's asynchronous for the mostpart, meaning the students can
(41:25):
access their information whenit's comfortable for them.
That's why online educationmakes sense for them, right?
They're either taking care oftheir family or they're working,
and they can only dedicate Xamount of time to this
asynchronous experience.
There are a few times duringthe week where they have the
opportunity to jump into livesessions with their chef
instructors, where they can askquestions or they can discuss,
(41:48):
or they can watch a demo andthat sort of thing.
But the genesis of all of it,the genius of all of this, is
our students are provided withall sorts of direction, right.
We came up with this really,really cool.
I have one sitting right herein front of me.
It's called the Flavor Wheel.
So you know, chef, what'sreally, really important is that
(42:09):
you can.
Muscle memory will get somebodythrough roasting a chicken or
searing a piece of protein theway that chef wants them to.
But the cognitive piece iswhat's so, so important?
Do they understand what they'redoing?
Do they understand therelationship between aroma,
taste and mouthfeel?
(42:29):
So we've created both a digitaland a physical flavor wheel.
Think of it as like a tatavan,just a small little tool that
helps students understand thatwords like full-bodied,
comforting, appetizing, butterybriny that might reflect
(42:53):
something that's savory, right,whereas something that's peppery
or spiced or fiery, that mightbe spicy, or a lot of our
students that come to us.
They don't know therelationship between aroma,
taste and mouthfeel, so we haveto help them with that.
So then they get theirassignment right.
They're in the comfort of theirown home, they've gone through
(43:16):
their shopping list, they knowexactly what ingredients they
need, they've seen the videos.
Then they execute and then theytake a series of photos with
the phone and then they uploadit into the system.
Very, very simple.
We use a tool to just uploadthe photos right from their
phone into our LMS and then eachone of our instructors is
(43:40):
required to create a videofeedback loop for the students.
So they take a look at everysingle photo and the photos are
all very organized, right?
So you have your mise en placephoto.
You have to demonstrate a pHstrip so that we know that your
sanitation is where it'ssupposed to be.
(44:01):
Then you have severalin-process photos, right?
If you're making empanadas, weneed to see the dough, we need
to see the dough resting, weneed to see the salsa that you
make to go with it, and so onand so forth.
And then they make that video.
They call it a 10 or 15-minutevideo that every instructor has
(44:23):
to provide to every student forevery assignment that they
upload.
So to answer the question ofwho tastes the food, the student
tastes the food.
So the student does all of that, they do the cooking and then
they have to provide a narrative.
They have to be able to explainto the instructor what's
(44:45):
happening and good, bad and uglyright so that the instructor
can make that educatedassessment on whether or not the
student is grasping the conceptthat they're being taught or
have the opportunity to betaught.
So that's basically how itworks and we have a variety of
(45:10):
different programs.
So obviously our culinaryprogram is focused on culinary
pastry and pastry andplant-based, and plant-based and
plant-based, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
So does that help a little bit?
A little, yeah, of course itdoes.
But that leads me to a question.
So you know plant-based andfarm-to-table, like what sort of
what data shows what studentsare most interested in?
Do you have you know whatbrings them to the school most?
Is it because you know rightnow plant-based, you know food
(45:42):
is trending, or is it becausesomebody you know wants to learn
?
You know traditional or classic, classically trained, you know
culinary arts, like what is itthat's bringing them in?
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah, by far the most popular program is our is our
culinary arts and operationsprogram.
That's, that's our.
You know, our basic culinaryarts program.
Pastry arts would be, you know.
Second to that, we the theprograms like plant-based and
food, entrepreneurship andholistic wellness.
(46:18):
They're more boutique programs.
You don't have as many studentsin those, but those are very,
very intentional, pointedstudents that know exactly what
they want.
We do plant-based education hereon ground, in Boulder and
online, and I have to tell you Iwant to talk about grit they're
the most educated.
(46:38):
They come to us with a wealthof knowledge.
This education is allowing themthe freedom to express
themselves.
They already know what theywant.
They want to go out into theworld and they want to make a
difference, and they don'tnecessarily need to land in a
restaurant or a hotel that isexclusively plant-based.
(47:00):
They want to bring theirmessage and help enhance other
establishments that may not havea robust, you know, plant-based
menu and that sort of thing.
And I should say and, chef, youprobably remember this from your
days at JWU that it's a veryhighly regulated industry when
(47:26):
you think about education.
So all of our students thatcome to school, there's
milestones, there's requirementsfrom our accreditors of how
many students have to finish theprogram, and then you know, on
top of that, how many studentsneed to find gainful employment
in the industry.
(47:47):
So if someone comes to us andthey're seeking a plant-based
education, it's ourresponsibility to help them find
employment in that field Notthe pastry field, not the
culinary arts field, not thehospitality, restaurant
management field, but in theplant-based field.
That's what they came to schoolfor and that's what our
(48:07):
responsibility is.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
How do you go about assisting or aiding in that job
search?
Speaker 2 (48:16):
or aiding in that job search.
Yeah, we have an immensecollection of resources for both
online and on-ground, so westart early too.
So student comes to school,they immediately are introduced
to our career servicesdepartment.
We try to get some of thatinformation up front when they
(48:36):
first come to school, like whatare you looking to do and what
are your goals?
And some students don't reallyknow what they want to do.
Many do, many do I want to openup a food truck, I want to work
for Curtis Duffy, I want to goto New York, I want to go to
Germany, whatever it is.
(48:57):
And then we work together withthe student.
We don't hand them their path,they work with us on their path.
So it's a lot of conversations,it's a lot of interaction, it's
a lot of introductions todifferent employers that come to
the campus and then they gothrough the program, whether on
ground or online, and everyone,even the online students, have
(49:20):
to complete an externship at theend of their program, meaning
that they have to go to aphysical establishment and
execute x amount of hours tocomplete the entire program.
More times than not, we try tohelp students land in an
externship at a very attractiveplace to them a place where they
(49:44):
may want to stay, and a highpercentage of our students
actually convert from theirexternship site to their first,
you know, real job in theindustry.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
What I think is interesting is how the legacy
continues with the greatgrandson Michael Escoffier, and
he's, you know, an active boardmember or on the advisory board.
I should say, how does thatplay into all of this?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah, so, and thanks for bringing that up.
He's not only you know, alegacy, but Michel is you know,
he's a friend.
He's very, very active.
He turned 80 in March.
I talked to him last night.
He spends his time, he shareshis time between Nice.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
He shares his time between Nice and Nice.
From our previous conversationoffline and now my French.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
my French reading and pronunciation is horrible, Of
course, so say that, say thatyou have a different French
version than what he just saidAbsolutely, I absolutely do.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
But can you say, say, say the location again, lulule.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Lulule.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Bay Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Wonderful, but can you say the location again,
lulule Villaloo Bay.
Okay, wonderful Villaloo Bay.
Yeah, I'll send it to you.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
It won't look anything like it's spelled, not
naturally.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's a little scrambled, yeah, it takes
a minute, but yeahelle isactively involved in and and and
the really cool thing is, ifyou ever get to villa lula bay,
it's not tough.
Um, you know direct flightsfrom denver to, uh, uh, to
(51:50):
frankfurt or to paris, and thenyou can shoot down into the
south of france.
But, um, the home that augustescoffier grew up in, um for the
last 50 years, was was turnedinto a museum by by michelle and
his family, and um, it'sprobably four or five stories
(52:11):
high and it just it's acollection, just name it.
Um, it's, it's unbelievable.
You know the original deskwhere Auguste wrote.
You know some of the 6,000recipes from Le Guy.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
La Repertoire de Cuisine is one of the main ones
that he's done for La Repertoirede Cuisine.
Sorry, chef, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
No, it's all there.
And so, for example, inSeptember, I will take a group
of 13 or 14 or 15 employees ofour company.
We'll dine and we'll hang withMichelle, we'll tour the museum,
and so it's kind of a it's,it's, it's, uh, you know it's a
cool story.
Um, michelle was never a chef.
(53:05):
He, he, he went into the worldof banking, as did his father
before him, um, but I, I'venever met an individual who
uhquently and you know, just hassuch reverence for you know his
great grandfather's history.
He speaks often, not every year, but every fall we have a large
(53:31):
graduation, as you can imagine,large graduation, as you can
imagine, and we do it on thecampus of Colorado University
here in Boulder, in a beautiful,beautiful auditorium called
Mackey, and you know there's twoor three thousand people show
up.
The majority are the onlinestudents who come from all parts
of the country to to walkacross the stage.
And you know, let's say, everyother year, michelle will make
(53:53):
the trip and you know, addressthe crowd.
So you know what that does it itis, you know, it's um, it's a
connection is what it is it's,it's, it's validation right like
gosh, this is real, this is areal, this is a real brand,
right it's?
(54:14):
Uh, you remember?
Um so so, johnson Wales, carlCarl Guggenmoss was he around
when you were a student?
Speaker 3 (54:21):
Uh, miami, miami location, no, not so much
Probably Providence, though.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Yeah, yeah.
But, um, you know, being beinga student of this craft for as
many years as I have, you knowwhen.
When you would say you know,you know theinary Institute of
America, you would say you know.
For Ned Matz, you would say JayWu, you would say, carl, you
know, you know, so on and soforth.
Speaker 3 (54:43):
And so you know, for us, you know, augusta Scoffier
is is, is really, really, reallyimportant and we have somebody
here who's not into the foodscene as much he does food
photography and maybe otherpeople listening.
What is the big deal aboutAuguste Escoffier?
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Because people might not know.
Yeah, it's a long, long story.
(55:29):
Think about imagining a humanbeing who, 100 years ago, was a
great cook, right, but alsobrought some based on his.
You are going to focus on theprotein cookery, you're going to
focus on the vegetable cookery,you're going to focus on the
roasting, so on and so forth.
So he brought a brigade system,as we like to refer to it, to
(55:52):
the kitchen.
He and Korem before him werereally respectful about the
craft and the uniform and tolook good in the kitchen.
You know, there's stories thatMichelle tells of Auguste being
really really concerned withbenefits and working conditions
and work-life balance a hundredyears ago for his chefs.
(56:15):
And then I'm looking at my bookright now.
You know, le Guy, it's not arecipe book, it's a book of
technique, right.
So it's a difficult book tomaster, it's a difficult book to
read, um, but it, uh, it, uh,it laid the foundation of
(56:44):
technique driving, uh, educationin our field versus, you know,
a collection of recipes.
So we try to focus to that it.
For example, sauteing is an art, right, it's really really
interesting, um, and importantthat a student understands the
technique of sautéing and thenwe'll introduce different flavor
profiles and differentingredients which we might find
(57:06):
are applied to sautéing aroundthe world rather than a recipe
of sautéing, and other schoolsmay do that as well, but that
certainly is what we try to doat Escoffier.
So Augustus Escoffier, I guessin many ways was known as the
king of chefs and the chef ofkings.
He partnered with Cesar Ritz,you know, years and years and
(57:29):
years ago and brought just adifferent level of cuisine you
know to to to the world.
We were in new york city injanuary for a big event at, uh,
uh, john george's place, um,where we inducted some, some
folks into an organization thatwe call the disciples of the
(57:50):
scoffier.
So it's a gourmand, uh, society.
And Jean-Georges comes to theevent and he has, he sees Michel
, they embrace and, you know,say hello, they'd met before.
And Jean-Georges has a copy ofMcGee that I don't even know how
(58:13):
old it was.
It was kind of held togetherwith rubber bands.
He had found it in France yearsand years earlier, right, and
he brought it.
It was really frail, the pageswere fragile and yellow, but
Michel signed it.
So I don't know if that shiversyour spine like it does mine a
(58:34):
a book that was written 100years ago.
Um, you know, still gets a chefwith the reputation of jean
george.
Um, excited, that's.
Uh, that's augustus coffier.
That's that's what he does forour industry.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Well, I think, I think it.
It kind of brings it fullcircle to what we were talking
about in the beginning of thehour, where it's passion and a
lot of it comes from lineage anda lot of it comes from the past
, um, you know, and how there'sa direct lineage to.
(59:21):
For me, I appreciate that in ahundred different ways and I
feel like students who are onthe fence about um, you know
well, should I, should I do sucha thing?
I want to go to school as atrade school, I want to be a
chef.
What I want to be, I think youknow.
You find your passion, you takeit, you look at you, look at
this, this culinary school.
It's prestigious, it has thelineage, it, yes, that's what
(59:44):
you want, yeah, and I'll go onestep further.
Speaker 3 (59:46):
So regular college.
I went to regular college.
I have degrees with that too.
I was nowhere near assuccessful as I was in culinary
school.
I graduated second in my class,not the 12th I had.
That was just the as successfulas I was in culinary school.
I graduated second in my class,not the 12th I had.
That was just the weekendprogram.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
So there was more, but there was only three.
There were three people.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
But it was different because again.
Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
It posed that thing of being passionate and I had
that.
That's where I always, at 12years old, I knew I wanted to
become a chef.
I just didn't know how to getthere.
There was Jacques Pepin, therewas Julia Childs, there was the
Galloping Gourmet, karim Kher,that's who I watched.
And then in the 90s we hadEmeril come out and he was the
JW guy.
So it's like, oh cool, but itwas already in the industry at
(01:00:29):
that point.
And it's ironic because youmentioned something about
customer service and you know wementioned different things.
I have, um, ironically,yesterday I just put out a blog
about what the whining kitchenaid, and it's about culinary and
people asking chefs why theyshould be going in the culinary
field.
(01:00:49):
And now I'm taking the lookback and going.
I'm so more, so many more yearsare behind me, that what's in
front of me, what's left.
So I have the two differentperspectives and it's really
interesting because as we gainup in age, it's like what's left
for us to do, what's left forus to accomplish, and there's so
(01:01:09):
much more still left in thetank, for me at least.
And there's, you know,mentoring is one of those two,
and there's.
Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
You know, mentoring is one of those two.
Really well said.
I love that you brought upJacques Pepin.
He said once that a great chefis first a great technician.
If you're a jeweler or asurgeon or a cook, you have to
know the trade in your hand.
You have to learn the process.
(01:01:38):
And again, for me it's not aneither, or it's an and um the
grit, the passion and all.
Can I tell you?
Do we have time for anotherstory?
I got to tell you the story Foryou.
Of course.
No, john, john will cut you off.
We won't.
Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Somebody's standing over here with one of those
umbrella hooks and they'retrying to put.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
They're like kaboom, jeffrey, you're an ACF guy.
I have been most of my life,since 1988.
And I'll never forget the day Ican't remember I think it's
when I achieved CWC, right, itused to be a little bit more
difficult because you used tohave to do these things in front
(01:02:18):
of a certified chef, and it'schanged over the years, but
anyway, I'll never forget.
I got that certificate and Iwas really excited to show it to
my dad and my dad was makingcroissants or something, right?
Yeah, his apron was all dirty.
And so I come over there and helooks at it and he doesn't say
(01:02:39):
anything.
And so I just take mycertificate and I walk away and
a couple of hours later, maybe aday later, he pulls me over and
he says he says congratulationson your certificate.
I'm young, right, he's stillbaking.
You know much older.
And he says congratulations.
(01:03:02):
I just want you to remember onething, one thing all the pieces
of paper in the world willnever replace wanting to be a
great cook for life, and I don'tknow if anyone has ever said
that before.
I've stolen his quote on manyInstagram posts and different
(01:03:22):
things like that, but back then,all all he ever wanted me to
aspire to was to be a great cookfor life for life, right.
And that's just dabbling in it.
You're not just doing a summerjob.
Be a great cook for life.
I just wanted to share that hewas on my podcast too.
Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Oh, that's cool Having his dad in.
Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Here's what I want to do Say what your dad's name is,
and then say the quote again.
Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
You got it.
My father's name is JosephBachman and the basic quote is
aspire to be a great cook forlife.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
And that is beautiful .
I did not get to have my dad onmy podcast, so that's awesome
for you.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be awesome for his
grandkids and his greatgrandkids and that as well,
right?
So it's just, uh, I had forthem that's on, um, you know, a
few weeks ago, um, it wasphenomenal.
It was phenomenal, he, he, hetold stories, um, he would have
kept going, he I don't know ifyou guys know, he wrote a book
not too long ago.
(01:04:39):
He'll love that.
I just bugged his book, butit's, it's.
This is a craft that you haveto love and and you have to want
, uh, to persevere or have gritto stay, to stay involved, and
and that's really all I want mystudents, our students at
Escoffier, I just want them tohave that chance.
(01:05:00):
If they live in a rural areaand they just want to follow
their passion, we're coming tothem so that we can kind of help
them.
Getting too emotional with youguys, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
No, it's Well listen.
Life is emotion.
Well, it's passion.
Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
It is and it proves the point that when you have
that much passion, you can thenget, hopefully give part of that
passion to the students.
And I, you know, being aninstructor, you're also a mentor
and you're also all coach andall these different things being
in the school system.
But you, you, you were first achef and it's just amazing the
life you've done and, to thispoint, what you do for the, the
(01:05:40):
actual industry in our community.
So thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Oh, thank you Very, very kind.
This, this was a lot of fun andif we can ever do anything for,
for you, for you guys, please,please, let me know.
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
Yeah, we're, we're gonna, I think we'll, we're,
we're going to have a continueddialogue going forward.
I'm fairly certain of that.
Why don't you go ahead?
And how do we?
How do?
Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
how does everyone find you?
You can literally find us atEscoffieredu and you can find us
on what is my, what is ourinstagram?
It's, uh, I should know thatoff the top of my.
That's the stuff you're atschools.
Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yes, nobody's gonna hold it off the top of no, this
is the no judgment zone.
Okay, if I don't write it down,I I can't remember anything,
all right, I don't even know mywife's phone number.
That you have to know.
That you have to know and I'mnot deleting that, that's not
getting omitted from this thing.
Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Don't ever listen to this.
That's out there, okay, allright, I'll give her a heads up.
Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
You know, oh my God, I wanted to say a bunch of
things right there and I learnedhow to keep my mouth shut.
Finally, we're not putting foodin there.
Kirk Bachman find him at theUltimate Dish.
His podcast Awesome.
Check him out.
Thanks for being on the show,kirk.
Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Keep on cooking, we are out.
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