September 12, 2024 • 52 mins
Have you ever wondered what makes street food so captivating? Join us as Carl Fiadini takes a nostalgic trip down memory lane, savoring the iconic "dirty water" hot dogs of New York City with his Uncle Anthony. Our culinary journey continues with a visit from Jeffrey Schlissel, who introduces a tantalizing New England-inspired menu featuring Kuni Kuni pork, apple cider donuts, and a unique chili made with hot hatch chilies and bourbon bacon. We also celebrate an exciting milestone—being finalists for the People's Choice Podcast Awards, a testament to our beloved listeners.
Meet Dan Rossi, a true symbol of resilience, who earned the title "hot dog king" of New York City. From an unexpected start with a friend's hot dog cart to building the largest hot dog cart company in the city, Dan's journey is one of determination and innovation. His story reveals the grit required to navigate legal battles, homel
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Thank you for listening to the Walk-In Talk Podcast, hosted by Carl Fiadini and Company. Our show not only explores the exciting and chaotic world of the restaurant business and amazing eateries but also advocates for mental health awareness in the food industry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello Food Fam.
This is the Walk Talk podcastwhere you'll find the perfect
blend of food fun and cookingknowledge.
I'm your host, carl Fiatini.
Welcome to the number onepodcast in the country.
Well, number one podcast inthree countries.
It's a pretty amazing thinghappening right now in our world
.
We're recording on-site at IbisImages Studios, where food
(00:28):
photography comes alive and Iget to eat it.
Here's a humble request to giveus a follow on Instagram at
walkandshow, please and thankyou.
I'm into quality smoked fishdips and spreads.
I know you are too.
Check out our friends over atCrab Island Seafood Company.
Visit them atcrabislandseafooddipcom and
(00:50):
order yours today.
Last week we had Chef BrandonClark, creative mind behind Hot
Sauce, darling Clark and Hopkinssuper inspiring episode.
Go back and listen up.
I lived in Brooklyn as a child.
There are many things I missand fond memories I cherish with
my family, kind of like dunkingthe bread into my grandmother's
(01:13):
sauce pot and all the homemadeold school Italian food during
the holidays.
I also miss L&B pizza inBensonhurst.
It's my all-time favorite.
But you know what else I missStreet cart hot dogs.
To spend time with me, my UncleAnthony would say hey, carlucci,
(01:34):
let's go take a ride in the car, we'd go to Radio Shack or
Crazy Eddie's and then,inevitably, we'd stop for some
dirty water hot dogs.
It was an experience the snapof the hot dog skin, all the
flavors, washing it down with ayoo-hoo or a mellow yellow, just
standing on the corner andeating, talking, listening to
his stories and topics that,frankly, were probably
(01:55):
inappropriate for aseven-year-old.
That's the way it was back then.
These moments were indeedspecial to me.
Who would think that behind theveil of my happy, nostalgic
food memories are the actualstruggles of what it takes to be
a food vendor on the streets ofNew York?
Today we're going to dive intoa remarkable journey of our
guest, dan Rossi, New York's hotdog king.
(02:18):
It's a fascinating story, butfirst let's welcome Jefferson
back to the studio.
What's cooking, baby?
We missed you last week.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I had some fun up over in New Hampshire.
It kind of inspired.
The menu for today Reached outto one of our farmers and
someone that supports us, vickiWebster, over at Happy Tales,
and she gave us some Kuni Kunipork and we have a pork
tenderloin and a pork chop thatwe're going to do Two different
ones, since it is about to startbeing apple season up in New
(02:47):
England.
I was like, hmm, I read thismenu.
It was funny as anything Cause.
Keith was like, hey, rememberwhere we got those cider donuts?
It's right on the way.
We ended up getting it onSunday we ended up going back up
to we forgot a catering rentalunit, just one box, one and a
half hour away, three hour driveto go pick the box up.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Catering, love it Hashtag adventure.
Yeah right, well, we made thebest of it because we got some
cider donuts.
So it's an apple cider donut,apple cider, brined pork chop
with a apple cider crumble, withblue cheese, candied pecans and
braised greens.
Then the pork tenderloin isgoing to be grilled figs,
(03:31):
prosciutto, burrata, blisteredtomatoes, pickled fennel with
roasted potatoes.
And then I wanted to do causeit's getting a little bit fall,
like in other parts of thecountry besides Florida, cause
it's still 95%, 95 humidity Iended up doing a chili, but it's
with hot hatch chilies whichare from new mexico, some of her
(03:52):
chicken.
That is just absolutelyphenomenal.
We're gonna do some pickledavocado and then garlic chili
crisp and then bourbon bacon tofinish that off, to give it some
depth and complexity.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, what was in that jar that?
That is the chili crisp that Imake.
Yeah, I wanted to just likestart to give it some depth and
complexity.
Yeah, what was in that jar?
That is the chili crisp that Imake.
Yeah, I wanted to just likestart spooning it right there.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, so mine actually has cinnamon, star,
anise, shallots, garlic, chilipaste, chili sorry chili flakes
a little touch of gogu jang andalso thin soy on it.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I didn't eat last night Good In anticipation for
today and I didn't have anythingfor breakfast.
So I just want you to know it'sgoing to be serious today.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
That's starving Marvin, yeah, totally starving
and I was just listening tofinishing the podcast from last
week and I love the sandwichreference.
How John likes to do sandwiches.
There's no sandwiches today.
How John likes to do sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
There's no sandwiches today.
I tell you what it was.
A great week.
Last week was fun, man.
We had a really good time.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Maybe I should go out of town more often.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You should probably you know what get out of here,
kid Scram, you know, listen.
By the way, today we're goingto be shooting our acceptance
speech for the People's ChoiceAwards for the podcast category,
and it's not that we've wonanything, but we're in the
finals and we have to actuallyshoot this in order when we find
(05:16):
out actually who does win andif it is us, we'll have it
prepared Super stoked about this.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's an amazing feat.
I mean, think about how many 5million listeners, down to
20,000 listeners they're goingto pick the people's choice.
And there's nine other podcasts, including us would be 10.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, I mean whittle down to 10, we're in that final
10.
I don't know, man.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It's an honor just being mentioned in those
different podcasts.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to have
you know, like on our email, youknow, signature, you know if we
don't win.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Nominated.
Nominated right yeah, why not?
I don't know, I mean, it's,it's, it's, that's a huge feat.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So stoked, equally as excited, to jump into the food
today.
I'm ready to rock and roll, man.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Well, too bad, we don't have dirty hot dogs.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So you, I know, I know.
That was a couple weeks ago,you know, as I was writing the
monologue out and I did thatearly this morning, about three
in the morning, and I was likeyou know what, this is what I
was feeling and I actually itbrought back like that actual
snap of the dog canishes, likeall that stuff, man.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I really I miss it.
It's been a long time.
It's funny.
You mentioned knishes andsomebody was talking to me about
something.
Believe it or not, I thinkthey're trending because
universal studios actually sellspotato knish no kidding.
Street food no kidding yeah, inorlando I was amazed,
especially for what they charged, like ten dollars oh well, sure
that's, they're not making a uhkilling on that.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well listen, here's the thing.
You know, when you're talkinglike knish, you're talking hot
dog stuff like that.
I haven't had a manhattanspecial in a million years and I
feel like you know, sometimethis coming week I'm gonna have
to go off on a search.
You know I need to like quenchthe uh, the, the craving.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, you know.
What you need to wash it downwith is an egg cream.
I can't believe you didn't evenyou had a yoohoo instead of an
egg cream, that's what.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I was a kid, that's what I used to get at the
, at the, at the cards man, Iused to get a yoohoo a kid you
know, and he would, my unclewould get like a manhattan
special or whatever, and where Iwould get a mellow.
Yeah, that's, that's what I hadand I dig it.
But anyhow, speaking of all ofthis hot dogs and New York
street food, I think we shouldusher in our guest today.
(07:35):
Yeah, I think so too.
Dan Rossi, welcome to theprogram.
Glad to be here.
Thank you kindly.
Yeah, we had you and I had along conversation a couple of
weeks ago, kind of talking aboutyour, your rise, if you will,
in this you know hot dog streetcart world over there, and then
(07:56):
fall and then rise again and Ithink I think the story is
incredible and I kinda I do havequestions here for you.
But before we jump intoquestions, if you could give
kind of an airplane view of whoyou are, where you came from and
you know how you, how you gotinto the food cart business, hot
(08:18):
dogs specifically, that wouldbe terrific.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh, wow.
Well, you know, I'm a nativeNew Yorker, I'm an Italian
American and right out of highschool I went into the Marine
(08:46):
Corps.
I did a few tours in Vietnamand when I came out cart and
after I was done he felt betterand he didn't want it.
So I was stuck with this hotdog cart and I said you know,
let me try and sell it.
And as soon as I put it forsale I sold it.
So that became my business.
I started to, you know, at homeand night I would build a cart.
When it was done I'd sell it.
I ended up being the largesthot dog company in the city's
history.
Within about 10 years I had 500carts on the street, which is a
(09:08):
pretty amazing feat.
But because of my background asa veteran and pretty much an
advocate for veterans, the citywent ahead and removed all the
vets from Midtown Manhattan, andit was just, if you saw it, at
the time there were only about20, 30 guys doing it.
(09:30):
So I got involved.
What decade was that?
Oh, this is the 90s.
Okay, they went ahead and I gotinvolved.
It took a little while, but Imanaged to reverse the law and
because I did it, I had to bepunished, they told me, because
a lot of bigwigs were behindthis thing and they went ahead
(09:50):
and they actually passed a lawand took away my business, which
was another amazing thing andthat kind of dragged me out.
You know, I went from owning abeautiful home in Greenwich,
connecticut If you know anythingabout Greenwich, it's one of
the finest places to live in thecountry and I ended up living
in a van with me and my wife.
So I went ahead and I said whatare we going to do?
(10:16):
We went from nothing to havinga great life, having less than
nothing now.
So I said you know what?
I'm going to?
Gonna sell hot dogs.
And I went to help out a vet infront of the vet who was having
trouble and he was a verydisturbed guy, you know ptsd and
all that and he just gave upand I said I was had my youngest
(10:37):
daughter with me and I said youknow what?
I'm gonna get a card and I'mgonna start doing this and I
didn't want to upset the theapple cart.
You know, I had enough of thatpolitics stuff.
I didn't want to be involvedwith any of it.
So I didn't actually go in frontof the man.
I went a couple blocks away andas soon as I set up they
(10:58):
started to harass me.
The police and you know so Itold.
I said, after about 40 times, Isaid, look now, every time you
come here I'm going to move 10feet closer to the men.
And they did as they werewriting tickets to me.
I moved the pushcart.
I mean it became comicalbecause none of these tickets
ever stuck.
I wasn't doing anything wrong.
(11:19):
And then, finally, I ended upright in front of the men.
I said what are you going to do?
And they arrested me.
That was the best day of mylife, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I can't let you get passed onthat.
So you get arrested.
It's the best day of your lifewhy?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Because what happened was there were quite a few
illegal vendors there and whenthey saw me get arrested, they
just scattered.
And when they saw me getarrested, they just scattered.
And when I came back the nextday, no one bothered me.
So I says I know I was, Iwasn't breaking any laws.
I says now I got them, now Iknow I can be here, and that
(11:56):
started to establish me as the,as the hot dog king.
I mean it just, it just tookoff.
And you know, one thing led toanother.
This, 18 years later, I'm stillhere, I'm still getting
harassed, I'm still gettingtickets, I'm still getting shut
down.
But well, it's all nonsense,it's just the smoke and mirrors
that they're doing so what wasthat?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
what was the challenge that you had?
So, when you transitioned frommanufacturing to actually
becoming a food vendor, whatkind of hiccups were you
experiencing there?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
My goal always was, even when I built cars, I always
tried to make the best I coulddo and the thing we were having
here was just what hard love tosell and how to sell it.
Because in my time because Ihad hundreds in my time I had
carts but I never actuallyphysically vended.
You know, there's a bigdifference between building a
(12:52):
cart and putting it on thestreet and actually being behind
that cart.
So, but it didn't take me longto get into the knack.
I kind of enjoyed it, but thething was to find the best thing
.
Now you guys talk about thedirty water hot dog.
Well, but the thing was to findthe best thing.
Now you guys talk about thedirty water hot dog.
Well, that's a thing of thepast, to be honest with you.
There was a time when every hotdog manufacturer made a hot dog
with a casing on it so thewater wouldn't affect it as bad.
(13:16):
But now all the hot dogs haveno casing.
So if you went ahead and put apackage of these uncased hot
dogs in water, some of themshrink, some of them get big.
I mean, it's a different hot dogfrom what you guys remember
when you were younger, and sothe best way to cook a hot dog
is on a flat grill.
So that's what I did I builtthe flat grill and then the next
(13:39):
thing to do was to find theright hot dog.
So you just can't go and buy aspecialty hot dog because you
have to have consistency, youknow you have to be.
This has to be reliable.
So I went through every singlebrand of hot dog that we could
buy locally and you know that'scommon to buy to find the right
(13:59):
one.
And once we hit on that, thatwas the home run.
We found the perfect hot dog toput on a flat grill.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Well, let me ask you.
Let me ask you this, dan whenyou found a hot dog, everybody's
buying a different brand by andlarge.
Or is there a handful of go-tos, or is everybody looking for
that next new one, or?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
how does that work?
If you walk down the street andyou saw a hot dog cart, it has
two different umbrellas with twodifferent names of hot dogs.
Never, never, look at theumbrella and assume that you're
going to buy that hot dog.
Most vendors buy whatever theycan find that's cheap.
Some of them are beef, some ofthem are anything.
I don't know what they are.
But, believe me, don't getfooled by that.
(14:42):
And it's a bad thing, becausesome of these companies are
pretty good companies and thenthey find out somebody's eating
something that's not what theythink they are.
I don't know if I can mentionnames, but if you went to buy a
certain brand, unless you seethe package of those hot dogs,
you're probably not getting it.
They'll put anything in frontof you.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
But there's oversight to that too.
No.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
There's no oversight.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I mean, if they're doing it illegal, they're not
going to be able to get anythingright.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, what are they doing illegal?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Right.
No, I'm saying if they're astreet vendor and they're doing
it illegal, right, and they'renot set up there.
Like you said at the beginning,when they busted people and saw
you get busted, they all fledbecause they were doing illegal
like vending.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, they're not gonna, they're not gonna care
what's it, what's in the hot dogthey're gonna buy?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
this one, like you said.
So there's no truth they don't.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
They don't care about anything.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
All they care about is grabbing your dollar and and
handing it to you so then, whatmakes your hot dogs different or
better than than the competitor?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
well, there's the consistency.
If you bought a hot dog todayand bought one six months from
now, it's exactly the same thing, and the grill does it.
When I said that they don'thave casings anymore, if you put
it on a flat grill, you get acrunch with this hot dog.
So that's it.
You've got the taste.
You've got the same hot dog,you know.
So that's it.
You've got the taste, you gotthe same hot dog.
(16:06):
People come from us two, threeyears ago, dan, you know, and
it's the same thing.
That's matters.
Not that they come today andthey taste the one kind of hot
dog come tomorrow or somethingelse, you know, and our
relationship with the people, Imean, we just have a great
relationship with the, you know,the people who live around here
, and that's a hard thing to dobecause this is a pretty wealthy
(16:29):
people, you know, and they,they buy me all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
You know, they almost like my do you ever get?
Customers that do you ever getcustomers that you know have
yours?
They pay X amount of dollars,but then there's a guy you know
another cart you know 30 yards,50 yards away, something like
that, and they undercut you by abuck or 50 cents.
Do you get a lot of that?
Is there that sort of oh itjust.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
It's just the opposite.
In front of the museum, hereit's all tourists.
So we have a price list.
So you're always going to paywhat's on the price list.
But if you go you might pay 30bucks for a hot dog.
They, they charge you by yourlook.
So if they think you're, you're, you're a visitor, you're a
tourist, you're gonna get hit,you know.
But you know, and that that'sthe way it is.
(17:17):
It's never undercut.
Forget about undercut.
They're.
They're overcharging thesepeople by a ton so then, what's
the?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
difference between being in front of the met and
then, you know, being, uh, youknow, blocks and blocks away,
maybe just more towardsresidential or something like
that, when you're not.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
you go to residential and you're getting the people
who live there.
They're New Yorkers, they'renot going to fall for a $30 hot
dog, but you get somebody fromChina who doesn't even know
what's going on.
You know, I've seen eight yearold-old Chinese kids walk up to
us for $100 bills.
Now you can imagine what wouldhappen if they went to these
other guys.
You know, I'll tell you thetruth.
(17:59):
They just watch you.
They take that shot that you'rea tourist and then they hit you
Because there's no price list.
And once they hand you that andyou take it and they say $10 or
$15, you end up paying it.
You know that's insane, Somepeople I can't tell you how many
times I see a hot dog thrown atone of these guys or fights
(18:19):
break out.
It's, it's almost everydayoccurrence because they picked
on the wrong person.
See what you're going to do isyou've got to set up a camera to
catch all that reality tv manabsolutely so is is it safe to
say, dan?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
is it safe to say and put send it to me, you send it
to me, I'll take care ofeverything, okay?
So is it safe to say thatlocation matters?
Is that like the, in youropinion, top three most
important things for a new YorkCity food vendor?
Is it location or qualityLocation?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
location, location, and then you got to follow the
quality.
But you have to be in a goodspot, you know.
I'll tell you the truth.
I know some vendors that are inareas that you would never
believe made money.
But they have a consistentcustomer base, they make a good
product and that, but they'renot getting the tourists.
They're getting the guy whoworks in a factory or in a
(19:15):
building, the janitors and thedoormen and all that, and it's
almost as if they could tellwhat they're going to make by
the end of the day before theyeven start the day, because they
see the same people every dayGo ahead.
I'm sorry, go ahead, no ahead no, but when I am, it's not that
way.
You know, we have our regulars,but it's nothing compared to
(19:36):
what they have.
They, they're, we're 99tourists, they're 99 percent.
Uh, you know regulars andthat's the world of difference.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And if they get that location, they're great, they do
great you know, I think that'swhat's interesting is, you can
get somebody who makes I don'tknow half a million bucks a year
and somebody who makes 40 granda year and everybody's eating
hot dogs on the street.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
That can happen Really lucrative locations in
the city.
A problem with us is we do finein the summer, but Labor Day
just passed we went down 25% intwo weeks, that's it.
And it'll come back up, youknow, in October.
But that one month kind of sayswe go down into a valley and
(20:24):
then we start to climb back upagain, but then by January we're
back down in the valley again.
But locations in Midtown whereit's the workers, there's no
slump.
You know a coffee cart inMidtown.
They know what they're going tomake every day of the week.
They see the same people everyday of the week and if they can
survive on that they're doinggreat.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
You know how do you hold your spot at the Met.
How do you?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
hold your spot at the Met.
How do you?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
keep that same position.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Well, what we do is that night we clean the cart and
bring the cart back, and then Ipark my van across the street
and I go to sleep.
And I've been doing that for 12years.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
There's no other way to do that, huh.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I have to be here overnight and keep an eye on the
cart.
This is a lifestyle.
It's lousy, let me tell you, Iwould much rather be sleeping in
a nice bed, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
But well, expand on that a little bit, dan, because
so you had this life rightbefore you were in Connecticut.
Yep, things were awesome.
This life right before you werein Connecticut, things were
awesome.
And then you kind of you know,let's just say, you get kicked
in the belly and you know, hereyou are, you're sleeping in your
(21:44):
van to hold a spot for the cartat the Met.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I mean you're making money, right.
I mean it's a good living, ithas to be.
Here's the way it works.
We'll do fine in that sixmonths and then I have to have a
little cushion to get usthrough the winter.
So it is that way.
It's survival more than makingmoney.
To be honest with you, I'm nota young kid anymore.
I'm going to be 75.
And there are too many moreopportunities.
I can't go in a shoe metal shopand go bang metal.
(22:06):
Those days are gone.
But I fell into this.
I actually got trapped intothis because of the illegals.
Again, right now, in front ofthe Met there are 10 carts and
well, I'm legal.
The rest of them are not legaland the city is complacent with
them.
You have no idea how bad thecity is right now in vending.
(22:26):
There are more illegal vendorsin the city than I've ever heard
of and there's nothing they doabout it.
There's absolutely zeroenforcement.
They've given up on enforcingvending and what saves me is the
fact that we have bus stops andthings.
That's the one thing you can'tdo.
You can't go on a bus stop or ataxi stand and we're like a
little oasis know that, sothere's nothing immediate.
(22:50):
I got one car maybe 30 feetfrom us, but the rest of a half
a block away, so that saves me.
But we're talking about maybemyself and one other car around
the entire central park illegaland the rest are not and they're
not going to touch these people.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It's just the way it is right now that's kind of like
what's going on with the, withthe hotels where the illegals
are actually staying at hotels.
I saw some stuff about that anda friend of mine actually
visited New York a couple ofmonths ago and inadvertently
stayed at one of those hotelsand was genuinely fearful of his
(23:28):
life.
It's bad.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, it's bad, yeah, it's bad.
One of the problems is we had alot of newcomers come in.
You know I don't call peopleillegals.
We had a lot of newcomers comein and they can't work because
you have to be able to worklegally in the city.
You know, like when I hiresomeone, I have to make sure I
can put them on the books andthe city doesn't allow them to
(23:51):
work legally.
So what do they do?
They either end up I don't know, that's not that much crime,
but it's a bad atmosphere but alot of them end up going on the
street vending.
You'll see blankets all overthe street with them selling
knockoff jewelry or handbags orhats or whatever they're doing.
And we're talking about a lotof them.
We're not talking about a fewpeople, we're talking about
(24:12):
hundreds.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Is it worse now over there than it was in the 70s,
early 80s?
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I was there.
I started in the late 70s andearly 80s.
It was bad.
It's five times worse now.
That's how bad it was.
It's really bad If you go downinto Midtown, where you never
saw these people.
They're lined up toe-to-toe awhole block long.
It's in the downtown square.
You don't even want to go toTimes Square.
(24:41):
I mean, it's just all over theplace.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And that never, I mean, you're a man in the know,
like you're there.
You're your boots on the ground, so to speak.
What's the fix?
How do they fix this?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Is there a fix?
One thing would help if thecity allowed these people to
work legally, then they'd gethired.
There's plenty of work.
There's plenty of placeslooking for people to work.
That would help.
And the second thing isenforcement.
The police wiped their hands ofvending.
They took them out of vending.
The health department doesn'tdo a thing and what they do is
(25:16):
they put vending in thedepartment of sanitation's hands
.
What the hell do they knowabout vending to sanitation
people?
That was the biggest joke inthe world.
They need some enforcement.
You know they need someenforcement.
You know, not Gestapo stylething, but you have to go down
and say, listen, guys, you can'tbe here, and then that'll do it
.
You know, start knocking themaway.
(25:36):
Especially, I got one rightoutside the pickup truck right
now selling you know fruits, youknow, and she's got a little
basket and she's doing it.
They got hundreds of thosepeople here.
You got to give them anopportunity to work.
That would be the big deal.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
There's no food inspectors that come through to
make sure that there's some.
You know standard operatingprocedures being enacted,
cleanliness, basic stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
The health department is told if they're not
permitted, keep walking.
Wow, that's their word.
Told if they're not permitted,keep walking, that's their word.
If they're not permitted, keepwalking.
They could come to me and theycan go down the list.
I mean, there's a long list andbecause I'm permitted, I'm
licensed.
But to them, who are youtalking to?
What name are they giving you?
It's a waste of time.
(26:27):
And then you know, you givethem a ticket.
They throw it away.
What is that?
But you give me a ticket and Ihave to battle it.
You know there's a wholedifferent ballgame.
There's just no oversight atall, nothing, zero.
I'll give you an example.
We did a little special for acompany a few weeks ago and they
(26:49):
covered my cart completely withtheir advertising.
We've given away hot dogs forthem.
And right next, right next tomy car, is my daughter's car.
So inspector comes, he goes tomy daughter and we have like
banners that come down off theumbrella, the the advertisement,
little panels, and it wasblocking the permit.
So he gave her a ticket forblocking the permit.
(27:11):
This is so ridiculous, five feetaway and my permit is
completely covered.
And he didn't even.
And my daughter said well, whatabout my father and he said no,
no, no, I'm here for you.
So the health department onlygoes to a court, or it goes
after the complaint 50 peoplecould be there breaking the law,
but it only goes to a cart.
Or it goes after the complaint50 people could be there
breaking the law, but it onlygoes to that one person that
(27:32):
they got the complaint for.
And then they walk away, theyclose their eyes.
Everything else has happened.
It's, it's just amazing.
Especially when you'relegitimate, it really turns your
, your stomach, you know,knowing that, well, this is
going on and these clowns arecoming here just to bother me
and, uh, that's so well, youknow, I say I'm used to it, but
I'm almost used to it no, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I don't know how you would get used to that.
So if the community you knowsupports, supports the.
You know the cart and you knowother carts or whatever, does
the community not care aboutwhat you know, what they're
eating or potentially eating, orthe you know health risks or
anything like that?
Can't the community make astand, open their mouth, do
(28:14):
something?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
To who?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
The health department ?
I guess no.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
You got it.
Have a good time.
You know it's funny.
There's actually anorganization that advocates for
vendors, but the guy running itis part of the black market and
if you call 314 to make acomplaint, send it to him.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
All it's going to take is a group of people
getting sick from a vendor, andthat's when the phone's going to
hit the fan.
That's the only thing.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
That's different.
But who wants to see people getsick?
I understand that, but that'swhen the fan.
That's the only thing that'sdifferent.
But who wants to see people getsick?
I understand that, but that'sthat's nobody no, that's why we
why you have to be permitted.
The city waits for people forsomething bad to happen before
they act.
When they can resolve it beforeanything bad happens, they
don't do it.
There's nobody in charge that'sgoing to take that
responsibility.
(29:09):
It's not happening.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I mean I was shocked when we spoke the first time,
dan, and you were kind of layingsome breadcrumbs down for me
with some of this info, and I'mactually more shocked today, to
be honest with you, just for youto kind of go deeper in it a
little bit and hearing it, it'sshocking.
It's New York City for cryingout loud.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
It's New York City and people just don't see it.
I don't know, they just don't.
You get complaints.
Back in the 90s, I mean, therewas a war going against vendors.
They did every possible war inthe world to control us.
But that was legal vendors.
Everyone involved was legal, soit's easy to enforce laws
(29:54):
against legal people.
It's impossible to enforce alaw against an illegal person.
They're already breaking the lawlaw against an illegal person,
they're already breaking the law.
You know when, when they toldme that, that the inspector said
look, if it's got no permit,we're told to keep going.
So that told you everything,that.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That told you the whole story well, they don't
have any right, they don't haveany jurisdiction.
It's like they only have ashutdown.
They can't remove you the thelaw, the police to do that
correct?
If I'm not mistaken, yeah, sono.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
The only one who can shut you down is the health
department.
At the end of May just to giveyou an example of how things
happened they came to my pushcart.
What happened was about fivecarts set up in a bus stop not
too far from me and they starteda big ruckus.
So the inspectors came down andthe health department goes up
to my car.
(30:46):
He looks at the permit and hesays this is a.
This permit's not allowed onthe fox property.
And I looked, we looked at what.
Are you crazy?
We're here 18 years.
My permit happens to probably bethe oldest permit in New York
City.
It was issued in 1983.
So he scraped the permit off mycart, shut me down, put a big
(31:08):
poster on my cart, you can'twork.
So I called up his supervisorand the supervisor was playing
stupid.
And then for almost four weeksthey wouldn't allow me to work,
until finally I started to talka little tough and then they
reversed themselves.
Oh, the permit is fine, I says.
But I almost lost four weeks ofwork.
And now you tell me the permitis fine.
(31:30):
If you knew the permit was finebefore you scraped it.
You know, I said you know.
These are the kind of gamesthey play.
And then you know what can youdo?
You end up going to court.
I'm gonna end up going to courtfor this.
I've been in court so manytimes in my life.
I don't want to go to court,but I have to do it.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You know I mean you're doing a service or you're
feeding people for crying outloud, and these guys are
breaking your balls, likeapparently, seemingly for no
reason, and you know, unlessyou're squirting ketchup on the,
on the sergeant's tie orsomething like that, Like you
know the fact that they're out,it's like they're out to get you
.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Well, I'm the key.
I'm the key of the wholeveteran vending issue.
I'm the only one who hasn'tgiven in to their games that
they're playing.
I refuse to go by what they'resaying because it's all unlawful
and once they get me, that'sthe end of the vets in the city.
And once they get me, that'sthe end of the vets in the city.
They're going to completelyremove any privileges we have
and just throw us in with theother vendors and that's the end
(32:26):
of us.
So they know getting me is likea home run and they've been
trying to do this for years.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany times I've been ticketed
and gone to court and they don'tcare about the decisions that
the courts bring out.
I actually argued the case inthe appellate court and won, and
the city said so what you won,we don't care what the judges
(32:47):
say.
They do what they want.
They will take you to courtagain.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
It's just that's the problem, and that specifically
has to do with your permit isrelated to being a disabled vet,
right.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, it doesn't matter what permit I have.
I'm the disabled vet and thestate protects me.
See, that's the problem.
We go under state laws, notcity laws.
We have to get a license fromthe city, but the state oversees
us and we have our own set oflaws.
And what they tried to do is,when they kicked all the vets
(33:24):
out of midtown years ago and Igot them back, they came up with
a law for them, for the peopleselling like general merchandise
hats and trinkets and stuff,and tried to tie it into a food
vendor.
And that's one of the things wewent to court for and we won.
We're food vendors, we're notselling hats.
You know, what they told me wasthey want me to give up my
permit and get a license to sellhats and then they'll give me
(33:48):
back a different permit.
I said but you want me to get alicense that doesn't allow me
to sell food.
He said, yeah, don't worryabout that.
I said, yeah, I am worriedabout that.
What am I?
A moron or something?
It was so stupid.
And then finally they gave in.
But that's what they'reexpecting me to do, and I'm the
only one who hasn't done it.
The other vets did it becausethey don't care, but I do care.
(34:11):
You know we all see thingsdifferently and you know I've
been through much.
I've been through too much withthe city and the government and
the law, then been through toomuch with the city and the
government and the law.
That I that what I know, I'mright and when the courts back
me up I'm going to stand bywhat's right.
I'm not going to just bend tothem because that's what they
want.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So you've actually.
So I, I saw your, I saw the,your feature on netflix.
You know, what is it?
Uh, usa street food orsomething like that, and you
were one of the, uh, one of thefeatures.
I thought it was a, I thoughtit was pretty great.
And as we're, as we're talkingyou know I do a lot of
formulating on the spot, right.
So you're, we spoke, I alreadyhave opinions, we're talking and
(34:53):
now those, you know, everythingkind of changes a little bit
and it, you know, comes out intothe podcast.
You, you really wear the NewYork hotdog King on your sleeve
Like that's, that's a part ofyour personality, right?
I mean because you know, likeyou said a second ago, like hey,
I'm the last one If they, ifthey, take me down, then the
(35:15):
whole thing goes away.
You're kind of like you're.
You're out there sitting on onyour proverbial throne, the cart
, and you're sitting up thereand you're going to run this to
the end, huh.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Well, I'm going to go to the end.
I figure I'm going to beturning 75.
I've got 15 more years.
We'll see how it turns out.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
How does that work?
You said, your daughter has acart next to you, right?
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, my daughter Elizabeth.
She served in the Marines too.
In fact we had to go to courtto get a permit.
I mean, that's how ridiculousit was.
When the state says you have togive it, they said we don't
care what the state says, westill have to go to court and
get it.
And the reason that I have tohave her next to me is because
if I didn't, there would be anillegal right next to me, is
(36:02):
because if I didn't there wouldbe an illegal right next to me,
they'd be here in a second.
That's why I sleep here everynight.
You know, in a minute.
And then I actually had onepolice captain says look, we'll
get rid of you before them.
And when you hear a policecaptain tell you that, you say
you know, I'm on my own, I haveto defend myself and that's what
I've been doing.
It's not a nice thing.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So I mean, if you don't want to answer, you don't
have to, but are there.
I mean, do things get a littlerough over 90 overnight hours or
anything like intimidation orsomething like that.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, well, they did in the beginning.
You know we had some.
I remember once the five or sixguys came and they went into
the.
I was across the street by thetime I got back across the
street to the car to chase themaway.
They were trying to wreck thecar, scrape the decal off A few
times.
There were guys who thoughtthey were tough.
Well, you have no idea howtough I can be.
(36:53):
I don't take crap from anybody.
We had to face them down.
Let them know that we're goingto go to a level that they don't
want to go to Street stuff yougot to sometimes turn into.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
That.
Is that the same motivation,that fire, is that what brought
you to write your book?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Oh yeah, you know, what happened was so many things
went on I mean fighting tobuild the company in the
beginning and the hold on to thecompany and I bought a nice
house.
You know, we got out of alittle house, bought a nice
place and what it was was theabuse that I saw people doing
against these disabled vets, andI could never handle abuse.
(37:37):
I never allowed anybody toabuse anybody when I'm around.
You know, there were certainthings that triggered me and
when I found out that therichest people in the city were
the ones abusing these men, Isaid you know, come on, guys,
all you have to do is help them.
You know we're not talkingabout a thousand people, there's
a few people.
And they dug in and I dug inand you know I remember when one
(37:59):
of the mayor's people said backaway from the vets and I said
it's not going to happen.
And he said, well, we're goingto bankrupt you.
I said you do what you got todo.
I said you know I can guaranteeyou that any combat vet out
there who's carried as manywounded and dead as I have is
never going to ever turn theirback on a vet, never.
It's not going to happen.
(38:20):
It's in our DNA and that was it.
And you know, when I say I'mthe last, it's because in my
mind, if I'm gone, the veteransare gone, you know, and maybe
something will turn around andsomebody will listen to me and
finally straighten this out.
But you know, I have to do whatI have to do.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So if you were going to give.
Let's just say that there's avet out there or somebody it
could be anybody, including aveteran and they want to kind of
get into the fold with you, orthey want to have a cart, but
they want to do it the right way.
I mean, is there advice thatyou would give somebody, Tell
them to don't do it at all, orwhat would you do?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
When my daughter came back from you know, and got out
of the Corps, the battalion wasin Brooklyn and a lot of the
men that were there you knowthey were coming out and they've
done you know two, three toursin Iraq and Afghanistan.
So they came back wobbly.
You know, when you come backout of combat you're not normal.
I hate to tell you that youdon't fit in.
And I must have had a halfdozen guys work with me.
(39:18):
I bring them in, calm them down.
They start to get readjustedand I said it's time for you to
go Now.
Go find something you can do.
And I did that to at least ahalf a dozen guys.
When I started my initial sheetmetal business hired all Vietnam
vets because nobody would hirethem.
You have to be one of them tounderstand them.
You have to go through whatthey're going through to
(39:41):
understand how to work around it.
The only problem I have now,after the pandemic that all
stopped.
I guess we don't have thefinancial means anymore to try.
We don't have that extra spotfor the guy.
I had a vet call my daughterthe other day.
I hear your dad will hire mydaughter.
He said you come on down.
He never came.
(40:01):
But we said you come on downand we'll try and fit you in
Squeeze a day, two days,whatever we can do.
If you want to learn how to geta permit, we'll take you to
court and get a permit.
If you want a cart, I hope youbuild it.
When I started my company, a vetwalked in the shop.
He got the cart for free adisabled vet.
(40:24):
I never once would take a pennyoff a guy.
Give him a shot.
There weren't that many of themat the time.
Now that's all gone.
That structure, that base.
I can't do it now because ofthe financial situation we're in
, but I would love to do it.
I would actually love it.
In fact, the city last year cameup with a program that was
(40:48):
actually backed up by anindividual to help veteran small
businesses and they would givethem a $20,000 grant.
So I went and I never heard.
I didn't know what a pitch was.
So I went and did a pitch, likeI'm talking to you.
That was the pitch, you know.
Everybody was coming up withcharts and all this and I said
what the hell is this, you know?
(41:08):
And I walked into a room andthere was about 30 people in
there.
So I went and I told them who Iwas and what I intended to do
and I said my problem is thecards that we have are 10 years
old.
They're falling.
Partner, I don't have the moneyto build new cars.
So I got it I mean theDepartment of Small Business
Service and especially theDepartment of Veterans Affairs
that they have in the city nowthe guy who's running it is this
(41:30):
guy, james Hendon the bestthing that ever happened to
veterans in New York City and Igot it and I built two new cars
for me and my daughter.
And I told him you know, therewas a time when I would be the
one that would be doing this.
No one had asked me.
I did it, but I can't do itanymore and then people helped
me.
So the good that I gave outsome of it came back to me, you
(41:54):
know.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
So I don't know I mean listen.
You know I'm just listening toyou and you know I don't know
what we can do.
You know we could talk about itoffline, but maybe we could try
to, you know, plug someresources or connections or
something like that, networkingto.
You know, just throw the hat inthe ring with you guys.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Well, there aren't too many guys to do it.
I mean, you know, if you'reright now in new york city,
there are probably only fivedisabled vets on food five.
That's it.
Not that I didn't get everyonea permit, because when I broke
the broke the door down to getmy daughter a permit, I was able
to get all the all the disabledvets a permit, but they they
went ahead and took them andleased them.
(42:39):
Being able to do this businessa a disabled person is extremely
hard.
They need a lot of support andthese guys didn't have a support
system.
So they went and they got thepermit, leased it illegally.
Everything is illegal now.
Everything is illegal and thatwas the end of them.
So when I had my company, therewas a system.
There were two other companiesthat were owned by vets.
(43:02):
We joined forces to help thevets.
You know, we had commissaryspace for them.
I built the cars for them, wetaught them.
That was different, but theytook that away from us.
The city was so against theveterans that they actually, you
know, basically they put me outof business just because I was
(43:25):
a disabled vet.
That was it and I was helpingthem.
That was it.
That's all gone.
There's absolutely no effort inNew York City to help us.
Nobody's going to help us, andI've been to the politicians
down there.
They don't even listen to you.
So you know.
But the way to do it is to doit on my own.
If I could, I would have a shop, I would have a little commerce
(43:46):
area and I would hire theseguys, just like I did before
they teach them how to buildcarts If they want to be a
vendor.
Teach them how to be a vendor,put them on the street, make
them independent.
Not that they work for me, thatthey work for themselves.
That was the whole goal forthis to get the guys back out
there into the world and learnto do things again.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
You know, like I said , first off, I want to thank you
for your service and yoursacrifice and your family
sacrifice for doing what you do.
Yeah, second off, I think oneof the biggest things with our,
with our reach.
I think it's important that weactually put the shine of light
on things, because you know theold saying, we have old sayings
(44:26):
for reasons.
Right, the squeaky wheel getsthe oil, and the more that we
squeak about this, the more thatthings need to change.
If the city of new york is doingthings against veterans, and
what are you doing?
Because these are the peoplethat give us the freedoms and
and after yesterday, what wecelebrated Patriot Day, which
affected New York greatly andthose 3,000 people that perished
(44:48):
.
It's disgusting to hear thisstuff like this.
There's different people outthere that are doing things.
My brother-in-law is somebodybig in the veterans affairs and
dealing with PTSD and it'sshocking to hear a city such as
New York, as great as it shouldbe, snuffing out for lack of
(45:08):
better terminology, snuffing outveterans.
You know the restaurantindustry in itself, we seem to
be the one that's the light ofthe moths, and the moths are the
misfits and the pirates andspecifically those that have
gone abroad to fight in combat.
Because we have the hierarchyand I've worked with so many
different veterans and I know Idon't know from ptsd of being in
(45:33):
battle, but I know from seeingthem and what they go through
I'm kind of disgusted with newYork right now.
As a matter of fact, yeah.
Yeah, and I think, unfortunately, you can't manage your business
and then attack the politicians, because you have to have that
quality of life plus have thebusiness, and you're protecting
(45:55):
that business because, forcrying out loud, the police
officers are not doing their job.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
quite frankly, I think it comes down to money.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
They were told to give up on it.
They were told to give up on it.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
The police, yeah, I mean in terms of the resistance
to fight this.
It comes down to money and, youknow, I have a feeling that we
might know some folks who are,you know, veteran-focused that
we might be able to connect withand maybe figure something out
there.
We got to look into it a littlebit.
I mean, if you're not a veteranyou should be.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
You should be upset, because these are people that
have actually given us thefreedom, maintain our freedom,
and that this is what's going onto our veterans.
It's disgusting, absolutelydisgusting.
We send boys to war and yetthey come home and we don't have
any means to integrate them,like you said, because they're
(46:46):
not ready to go back in thepublic, because they're in that
combat mode and they're in PTSDmode, and I understand that.
But this is an opportunity forus to integrate them back into
the society, to leave a normallife.
It's quite disgusting.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Well, I gave it my best shot.
I know I helped a lot of people, I mean especially when I first
started.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
We appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
These guys, you know the Vietnam vets.
They had it bad.
I mean we did.
I mean I remember going to VAto help and they said we're not
helping you guys.
You're just not credible.
I mean, imagine that.
And I walked out and I said, tohell with you, I'll do it on my
own.
I'll do it on my own and I did.
But you know, if you read mybook, you'll see where I went
(47:31):
down into that valley and I justbarely got out of it and, by
the way, the name of the book,folks, is the New York hot dog
king, from rags to riches, toless than rags.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I said that correctly .
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Yeah, right on the button.
All right, get it from Amazon.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
You can get it.
I was just going to say thatyou can get it on Amazon.
Check it out.
Listen, dan, I appreciate youcoming on the show today.
If people want to find out moreabout you, they can.
What on Instagram?
And why hot dogs?
Right?
Yep, yeah, you got it perfect.
Let's, uh, let's, let's, let'skeep the uh, let's keep the
(48:07):
conversation going, dan, and youknow we'll catch up.
There's a couple of people Iwant to introduce you to to see
if there's some synergies therethat maybe you know.
Maybe there's some some backup.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
I actually might have some big time reporters, but
shut the light on them.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, you, you, you can't make a stand by yourself
all the time.
You know, sometimes you needsome backup.
That's good, my daughter.
Well, so we got you know thatthat's, that's hardly going to
do anything, just being her.
Well, sometimes you need avoice.
You do anything, just being her.
Sometimes you need a voice, athird voice, because if you know
(48:44):
anything about politicians, youspeak to them twice.
They don't want to speak to youa third time.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Well, we're going to see what we can do for you, ben,
and we're about to.
We're coming up on a hard breakhere.
Appreciate you being on theshow today.
Thank you very much, jeff, john.
You did great today.
As always, we are out.
Hello Food Fam.
This is the Walk Talk podcastwhere you'll find the perfect
blend of food fun and cookingknowledge.
I'm your host, carl Fiatini.
Welcome to the number onepodcast in the country.
Well, number one podcast inthree countries.
It's a pretty amazing thinghappening right now in our world
.
We're recording on-site at IbisImages Studios, where food
(00:28):
photography comes alive and Iget to eat it.
Here's a humble request to giveus a follow on Instagram at
walkandshow, please and thankyou.
I'm into quality smoked fishdips and spreads.
I know you are too.
Check out our friends over atCrab Island Seafood Company.
Visit them atcrabislandseafooddipcom and
(00:50):
order yours today.
Last week we had Chef BrandonClark, creative mind behind Hot
Sauce, darling Clark and Hopkinssuper inspiring episode.
Go back and listen up.
I lived in Brooklyn as a child.
There are many things I missand fond memories I cherish with
my family, kind of like dunkingthe bread into my grandmother's
(01:13):
sauce pot and all the homemadeold school Italian food during
the holidays.
I also miss L&B pizza inBensonhurst.
It's my all-time favorite.
But you know what else I missStreet cart hot dogs.
To spend time with me, my UncleAnthony would say hey, carlucci,
(01:34):
let's go take a ride in the car, we'd go to Radio Shack or
Crazy Eddie's and then,inevitably, we'd stop for some
dirty water hot dogs.
It was an experience the snapof the hot dog skin, all the
flavors, washing it down with ayoo-hoo or a mellow yellow, just
standing on the corner andeating, talking, listening to
his stories and topics that,frankly, were probably
(01:55):
inappropriate for aseven-year-old.
That's the way it was back then.
These moments were indeedspecial to me.
Who would think that behind theveil of my happy, nostalgic
food memories are the actualstruggles of what it takes to be
a food vendor on the streets ofNew York?
Today we're going to dive intoa remarkable journey of our
guest, dan Rossi, New York's hotdog king.
(02:18):
It's a fascinating story, butfirst let's welcome Jefferson
back to the studio.
What's cooking, baby?
We missed you last week.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I had some fun up over in New Hampshire.
It kind of inspired.
The menu for today Reached outto one of our farmers and
someone that supports us, vickiWebster, over at Happy Tales,
and she gave us some Kuni Kunipork and we have a pork
tenderloin and a pork chop thatwe're going to do Two different
ones, since it is about to startbeing apple season up in New
(02:47):
England.
I was like, hmm, I read thismenu.
It was funny as anything Cause.
Keith was like, hey, rememberwhere we got those cider donuts?
It's right on the way.
We ended up getting it onSunday we ended up going back up
to we forgot a catering rentalunit, just one box, one and a
half hour away, three hour driveto go pick the box up.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Catering, love it Hashtag adventure.
Yeah right, well, we made thebest of it because we got some
cider donuts.
So it's an apple cider donut,apple cider, brined pork chop
with a apple cider crumble, withblue cheese, candied pecans and
braised greens.
Then the pork tenderloin isgoing to be grilled figs,
(03:31):
prosciutto, burrata, blisteredtomatoes, pickled fennel with
roasted potatoes.
And then I wanted to do causeit's getting a little bit fall,
like in other parts of thecountry besides Florida, cause
it's still 95%, 95 humidity Iended up doing a chili, but it's
with hot hatch chilies whichare from new mexico, some of her
(03:52):
chicken.
That is just absolutelyphenomenal.
We're gonna do some pickledavocado and then garlic chili
crisp and then bourbon bacon tofinish that off, to give it some
depth and complexity.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, what was in that jar that?
That is the chili crisp that Imake.
Yeah, I wanted to just likestart to give it some depth and
complexity.
Yeah, what was in that jar?
That is the chili crisp that Imake.
Yeah, I wanted to just likestart spooning it right there.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, so mine actually has cinnamon, star,
anise, shallots, garlic, chilipaste, chili sorry chili flakes
a little touch of gogu jang andalso thin soy on it.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
I didn't eat last night Good In anticipation for
today and I didn't have anythingfor breakfast.
So I just want you to know it'sgoing to be serious today.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
That's starving Marvin, yeah, totally starving
and I was just listening tofinishing the podcast from last
week and I love the sandwichreference.
How John likes to do sandwiches.
There's no sandwiches today.
How John likes to do sandwiches.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
There's no sandwiches today.
I tell you what it was.
A great week.
Last week was fun, man.
We had a really good time.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Maybe I should go out of town more often.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
You should probably you know what get out of here,
kid Scram, you know, listen.
By the way, today we're goingto be shooting our acceptance
speech for the People's ChoiceAwards for the podcast category,
and it's not that we've wonanything, but we're in the
finals and we have to actuallyshoot this in order when we find
(05:16):
out actually who does win andif it is us, we'll have it
prepared Super stoked about this.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's an amazing feat.
I mean, think about how many 5million listeners, down to
20,000 listeners they're goingto pick the people's choice.
And there's nine other podcasts, including us would be 10.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, I mean whittle down to 10, we're in that final
10.
I don't know, man.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
It's an honor just being mentioned in those
different podcasts.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to have
you know, like on our email, youknow, signature, you know if we
don't win.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Nominated.
Nominated right yeah, why not?
I don't know, I mean, it's,it's, it's, that's a huge feat.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So stoked, equally as excited, to jump into the food
today.
I'm ready to rock and roll, man.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Well, too bad, we don't have dirty hot dogs.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So you, I know, I know.
That was a couple weeks ago,you know, as I was writing the
monologue out and I did thatearly this morning, about three
in the morning, and I was likeyou know what, this is what I
was feeling and I actually itbrought back like that actual
snap of the dog canishes, likeall that stuff, man.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I really I miss it.
It's been a long time.
It's funny.
You mentioned knishes andsomebody was talking to me about
something.
Believe it or not, I thinkthey're trending because
universal studios actually sellspotato knish no kidding.
Street food no kidding yeah, inorlando I was amazed,
especially for what they charged, like ten dollars oh well, sure
that's, they're not making a uhkilling on that.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Well listen, here's the thing.
You know, when you're talkinglike knish, you're talking hot
dog stuff like that.
I haven't had a manhattanspecial in a million years and I
feel like you know, sometimethis coming week I'm gonna have
to go off on a search.
You know I need to like quenchthe uh, the, the craving.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, you know.
What you need to wash it downwith is an egg cream.
I can't believe you didn't evenyou had a yoohoo instead of an
egg cream, that's what.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
But I was a kid, that's what I used to get at the
, at the, at the cards man, Iused to get a yoohoo a kid you
know, and he would, my unclewould get like a manhattan
special or whatever, and where Iwould get a mellow.
Yeah, that's, that's what I hadand I dig it.
But anyhow, speaking of all ofthis hot dogs and New York
street food, I think we shouldusher in our guest today.
(07:35):
Yeah, I think so too.
Dan Rossi, welcome to theprogram.
Glad to be here.
Thank you kindly.
Yeah, we had you and I had along conversation a couple of
weeks ago, kind of talking aboutyour, your rise, if you will,
in this you know hot dog streetcart world over there, and then
(07:56):
fall and then rise again and Ithink I think the story is
incredible and I kinda I do havequestions here for you.
But before we jump intoquestions, if you could give
kind of an airplane view of whoyou are, where you came from and
you know how you, how you gotinto the food cart business, hot
(08:18):
dogs specifically, that wouldbe terrific.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Oh, wow.
Well, you know, I'm a nativeNew Yorker, I'm an Italian
American and right out of highschool I went into the Marine
(08:46):
Corps.
I did a few tours in Vietnamand when I came out cart and
after I was done he felt betterand he didn't want it.
So I was stuck with this hotdog cart and I said you know,
let me try and sell it.
And as soon as I put it forsale I sold it.
So that became my business.
I started to, you know, at homeand night I would build a cart.
When it was done I'd sell it.
I ended up being the largesthot dog company in the city's
history.
Within about 10 years I had 500carts on the street, which is a
(09:08):
pretty amazing feat.
But because of my background asa veteran and pretty much an
advocate for veterans, the citywent ahead and removed all the
vets from Midtown Manhattan, andit was just, if you saw it, at
the time there were only about20, 30 guys doing it.
(09:30):
So I got involved.
What decade was that?
Oh, this is the 90s.
Okay, they went ahead and I gotinvolved.
It took a little while, but Imanaged to reverse the law and
because I did it, I had to bepunished, they told me, because
a lot of bigwigs were behindthis thing and they went ahead
(09:50):
and they actually passed a lawand took away my business, which
was another amazing thing andthat kind of dragged me out.
You know, I went from owning abeautiful home in Greenwich,
connecticut If you know anythingabout Greenwich, it's one of
the finest places to live in thecountry and I ended up living
in a van with me and my wife.
So I went ahead and I said whatare we going to do?
(10:16):
We went from nothing to havinga great life, having less than
nothing now.
So I said you know what?
I'm going to?
Gonna sell hot dogs.
And I went to help out a vet infront of the vet who was having
trouble and he was a verydisturbed guy, you know ptsd and
all that and he just gave upand I said I was had my youngest
(10:37):
daughter with me and I said youknow what?
I'm gonna get a card and I'mgonna start doing this and I
didn't want to upset the theapple cart.
You know, I had enough of thatpolitics stuff.
I didn't want to be involvedwith any of it.
So I didn't actually go in frontof the man.
I went a couple blocks away andas soon as I set up they
(10:58):
started to harass me.
The police and you know so Itold.
I said, after about 40 times, Isaid, look now, every time you
come here I'm going to move 10feet closer to the men.
And they did as they werewriting tickets to me.
I moved the pushcart.
I mean it became comicalbecause none of these tickets
ever stuck.
I wasn't doing anything wrong.
(11:19):
And then, finally, I ended upright in front of the men.
I said what are you going to do?
And they arrested me.
That was the best day of mylife, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I can't let you get passed onthat.
So you get arrested.
It's the best day of your lifewhy?
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Because what happened was there were quite a few
illegal vendors there and whenthey saw me get arrested, they
just scattered.
And when they saw me getarrested, they just scattered.
And when I came back the nextday, no one bothered me.
So I says I know I was, Iwasn't breaking any laws.
I says now I got them, now Iknow I can be here, and that
(11:56):
started to establish me as the,as the hot dog king.
I mean it just, it just tookoff.
And you know, one thing led toanother.
This, 18 years later, I'm stillhere, I'm still getting
harassed, I'm still gettingtickets, I'm still getting shut
down.
But well, it's all nonsense,it's just the smoke and mirrors
that they're doing so what wasthat?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
what was the challenge that you had?
So, when you transitioned frommanufacturing to actually
becoming a food vendor, whatkind of hiccups were you
experiencing there?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
My goal always was, even when I built cars, I always
tried to make the best I coulddo and the thing we were having
here was just what hard love tosell and how to sell it.
Because in my time because Ihad hundreds in my time I had
carts but I never actuallyphysically vended.
You know, there's a bigdifference between building a
(12:52):
cart and putting it on thestreet and actually being behind
that cart.
So, but it didn't take me longto get into the knack.
I kind of enjoyed it, but thething was to find the best thing
.
Now you guys talk about thedirty water hot dog.
Well, but the thing was to findthe best thing.
Now you guys talk about thedirty water hot dog.
Well, that's a thing of thepast, to be honest with you.
There was a time when every hotdog manufacturer made a hot dog
with a casing on it so thewater wouldn't affect it as bad.
(13:16):
But now all the hot dogs haveno casing.
So if you went ahead and put apackage of these uncased hot
dogs in water, some of themshrink, some of them get big.
I mean, it's a different hot dogfrom what you guys remember
when you were younger, and sothe best way to cook a hot dog
is on a flat grill.
So that's what I did I builtthe flat grill and then the next
(13:39):
thing to do was to find theright hot dog.
So you just can't go and buy aspecialty hot dog because you
have to have consistency, youknow you have to be.
This has to be reliable.
So I went through every singlebrand of hot dog that we could
buy locally and you know that'scommon to buy to find the right
(13:59):
one.
And once we hit on that, thatwas the home run.
We found the perfect hot dog toput on a flat grill.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Well, let me ask you.
Let me ask you this, dan whenyou found a hot dog, everybody's
buying a different brand by andlarge.
Or is there a handful of go-tos, or is everybody looking for
that next new one, or?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
how does that work?
If you walk down the street andyou saw a hot dog cart, it has
two different umbrellas with twodifferent names of hot dogs.
Never, never, look at theumbrella and assume that you're
going to buy that hot dog.
Most vendors buy whatever theycan find that's cheap.
Some of them are beef, some ofthem are anything.
I don't know what they are.
But, believe me, don't getfooled by that.
(14:42):
And it's a bad thing, becausesome of these companies are
pretty good companies and thenthey find out somebody's eating
something that's not what theythink they are.
I don't know if I can mentionnames, but if you went to buy a
certain brand, unless you seethe package of those hot dogs,
you're probably not getting it.
They'll put anything in frontof you.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
But there's oversight to that too.
No.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
There's no oversight.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I mean, if they're doing it illegal, they're not
going to be able to get anythingright.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Yeah, what are they doing illegal?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Right.
No, I'm saying if they're astreet vendor and they're doing
it illegal, right, and they'renot set up there.
Like you said at the beginning,when they busted people and saw
you get busted, they all fledbecause they were doing illegal
like vending.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, they're not gonna, they're not gonna care
what's it, what's in the hot dogthey're gonna buy?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
this one, like you said.
So there's no truth they don't.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
They don't care about anything.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
All they care about is grabbing your dollar and and
handing it to you so then, whatmakes your hot dogs different or
better than than the competitor?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
well, there's the consistency.
If you bought a hot dog todayand bought one six months from
now, it's exactly the same thing, and the grill does it.
When I said that they don'thave casings anymore, if you put
it on a flat grill, you get acrunch with this hot dog.
So that's it.
You've got the taste.
You've got the same hot dog,you know.
So that's it.
You've got the taste, you gotthe same hot dog.
(16:06):
People come from us two, threeyears ago, dan, you know, and
it's the same thing.
That's matters.
Not that they come today andthey taste the one kind of hot
dog come tomorrow or somethingelse, you know, and our
relationship with the people, Imean, we just have a great
relationship with the, you know,the people who live around here
, and that's a hard thing to dobecause this is a pretty wealthy
(16:29):
people, you know, and they,they buy me all the time.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
You know, they almost like my do you ever get?
Customers that do you ever getcustomers that you know have
yours?
They pay X amount of dollars,but then there's a guy you know
another cart you know 30 yards,50 yards away, something like
that, and they undercut you by abuck or 50 cents.
Do you get a lot of that?
Is there that sort of oh itjust.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
It's just the opposite.
In front of the museum, hereit's all tourists.
So we have a price list.
So you're always going to paywhat's on the price list.
But if you go you might pay 30bucks for a hot dog.
They, they charge you by yourlook.
So if they think you're, you're, you're a visitor, you're a
tourist, you're gonna get hit,you know.
But you know, and that that'sthe way it is.
(17:17):
It's never undercut.
Forget about undercut.
They're.
They're overcharging thesepeople by a ton so then, what's
the?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
difference between being in front of the met and
then, you know, being, uh, youknow, blocks and blocks away,
maybe just more towardsresidential or something like
that, when you're not.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
you go to residential and you're getting the people
who live there.
They're New Yorkers, they'renot going to fall for a $30 hot
dog, but you get somebody fromChina who doesn't even know
what's going on.
You know, I've seen eight yearold-old Chinese kids walk up to
us for $100 bills.
Now you can imagine what wouldhappen if they went to these
other guys.
You know, I'll tell you thetruth.
(17:59):
They just watch you.
They take that shot that you'rea tourist and then they hit you
Because there's no price list.
And once they hand you that andyou take it and they say $10 or
$15, you end up paying it.
You know that's insane, Somepeople I can't tell you how many
times I see a hot dog thrown atone of these guys or fights
(18:19):
break out.
It's, it's almost everydayoccurrence because they picked
on the wrong person.
See what you're going to do isyou've got to set up a camera to
catch all that reality tv manabsolutely so is is it safe to
say, dan?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
is it safe to say and put send it to me, you send it
to me, I'll take care ofeverything, okay?
So is it safe to say thatlocation matters?
Is that like the, in youropinion, top three most
important things for a new YorkCity food vendor?
Is it location or qualityLocation?
Speaker 3 (18:53):
location, location, and then you got to follow the
quality.
But you have to be in a goodspot, you know.
I'll tell you the truth.
I know some vendors that are inareas that you would never
believe made money.
But they have a consistentcustomer base, they make a good
product and that, but they'renot getting the tourists.
They're getting the guy whoworks in a factory or in a
(19:15):
building, the janitors and thedoormen and all that, and it's
almost as if they could tellwhat they're going to make by
the end of the day before theyeven start the day, because they
see the same people every dayGo ahead.
I'm sorry, go ahead, no ahead no, but when I am, it's not that
way.
You know, we have our regulars,but it's nothing compared to
(19:36):
what they have.
They, they're, we're 99tourists, they're 99 percent.
Uh, you know regulars andthat's the world of difference.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And if they get that location, they're great, they do
great you know, I think that'swhat's interesting is, you can
get somebody who makes I don'tknow half a million bucks a year
and somebody who makes 40 granda year and everybody's eating
hot dogs on the street.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
That can happen Really lucrative locations in
the city.
A problem with us is we do finein the summer, but Labor Day
just passed we went down 25% intwo weeks, that's it.
And it'll come back up, youknow, in October.
But that one month kind of sayswe go down into a valley and
(20:24):
then we start to climb back upagain, but then by January we're
back down in the valley again.
But locations in Midtown whereit's the workers, there's no
slump.
You know a coffee cart inMidtown.
They know what they're going tomake every day of the week.
They see the same people everyday of the week and if they can
survive on that they're doinggreat.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
You know how do you hold your spot at the Met.
How do you?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
hold your spot at the Met.
How do you?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
keep that same position.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Well, what we do is that night we clean the cart and
bring the cart back, and then Ipark my van across the street
and I go to sleep.
And I've been doing that for 12years.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
There's no other way to do that, huh.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
I have to be here overnight and keep an eye on the
cart.
This is a lifestyle.
It's lousy, let me tell you, Iwould much rather be sleeping in
a nice bed, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
But well, expand on that a little bit, dan, because
so you had this life rightbefore you were in Connecticut.
Yep, things were awesome.
This life right before you werein Connecticut, things were
awesome.
And then you kind of you know,let's just say, you get kicked
in the belly and you know, hereyou are, you're sleeping in your
(21:44):
van to hold a spot for the cartat the Met.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I mean you're making money, right.
I mean it's a good living, ithas to be.
Here's the way it works.
We'll do fine in that sixmonths and then I have to have a
little cushion to get usthrough the winter.
So it is that way.
It's survival more than makingmoney.
To be honest with you, I'm nota young kid anymore.
I'm going to be 75.
And there are too many moreopportunities.
I can't go in a shoe metal shopand go bang metal.
(22:06):
Those days are gone.
But I fell into this.
I actually got trapped intothis because of the illegals.
Again, right now, in front ofthe Met there are 10 carts and
well, I'm legal.
The rest of them are not legaland the city is complacent with
them.
You have no idea how bad thecity is right now in vending.
(22:26):
There are more illegal vendorsin the city than I've ever heard
of and there's nothing they doabout it.
There's absolutely zeroenforcement.
They've given up on enforcingvending and what saves me is the
fact that we have bus stops andthings.
That's the one thing you can'tdo.
You can't go on a bus stop or ataxi stand and we're like a
little oasis know that, sothere's nothing immediate.
(22:50):
I got one car maybe 30 feetfrom us, but the rest of a half
a block away, so that saves me.
But we're talking about maybemyself and one other car around
the entire central park illegaland the rest are not and they're
not going to touch these people.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It's just the way it is right now that's kind of like
what's going on with the, withthe hotels where the illegals
are actually staying at hotels.
I saw some stuff about that anda friend of mine actually
visited New York a couple ofmonths ago and inadvertently
stayed at one of those hotelsand was genuinely fearful of his
(23:28):
life.
It's bad.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, it's bad, yeah, it's bad.
One of the problems is we had alot of newcomers come in.
You know I don't call peopleillegals.
We had a lot of newcomers comein and they can't work because
you have to be able to worklegally in the city.
You know, like when I hiresomeone, I have to make sure I
can put them on the books andthe city doesn't allow them to
(23:51):
work legally.
So what do they do?
They either end up I don't know, that's not that much crime,
but it's a bad atmosphere but alot of them end up going on the
street vending.
You'll see blankets all overthe street with them selling
knockoff jewelry or handbags orhats or whatever they're doing.
And we're talking about a lotof them.
We're not talking about a fewpeople, we're talking about
(24:12):
hundreds.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Is it worse now over there than it was in the 70s,
early 80s?
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I was there.
I started in the late 70s andearly 80s.
It was bad.
It's five times worse now.
That's how bad it was.
It's really bad If you go downinto Midtown, where you never
saw these people.
They're lined up toe-to-toe awhole block long.
It's in the downtown square.
You don't even want to go toTimes Square.
(24:41):
I mean, it's just all over theplace.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And that never, I mean, you're a man in the know,
like you're there.
You're your boots on the ground, so to speak.
What's the fix?
How do they fix this?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Is there a fix?
One thing would help if thecity allowed these people to
work legally, then they'd gethired.
There's plenty of work.
There's plenty of placeslooking for people to work.
That would help.
And the second thing isenforcement.
The police wiped their hands ofvending.
They took them out of vending.
The health department doesn'tdo a thing and what they do is
(25:16):
they put vending in thedepartment of sanitation's hands
.
What the hell do they knowabout vending to sanitation
people?
That was the biggest joke inthe world.
They need some enforcement.
You know they need someenforcement.
You know, not Gestapo stylething, but you have to go down
and say, listen, guys, you can'tbe here, and then that'll do it
.
You know, start knocking themaway.
(25:36):
Especially, I got one rightoutside the pickup truck right
now selling you know fruits, youknow, and she's got a little
basket and she's doing it.
They got hundreds of thosepeople here.
You got to give them anopportunity to work.
That would be the big deal.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
There's no food inspectors that come through to
make sure that there's some.
You know standard operatingprocedures being enacted,
cleanliness, basic stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
The health department is told if they're not
permitted, keep walking.
Wow, that's their word.
Told if they're not permitted,keep walking, that's their word.
If they're not permitted, keepwalking.
They could come to me and theycan go down the list.
I mean, there's a long list andbecause I'm permitted, I'm
licensed.
But to them, who are youtalking to?
What name are they giving you?
It's a waste of time.
(26:27):
And then you know, you givethem a ticket.
They throw it away.
What is that?
But you give me a ticket and Ihave to battle it.
You know there's a wholedifferent ballgame.
There's just no oversight atall, nothing, zero.
I'll give you an example.
We did a little special for acompany a few weeks ago and they
(26:49):
covered my cart completely withtheir advertising.
We've given away hot dogs forthem.
And right next, right next tomy car, is my daughter's car.
So inspector comes, he goes tomy daughter and we have like
banners that come down off theumbrella, the the advertisement,
little panels, and it wasblocking the permit.
So he gave her a ticket forblocking the permit.
(27:11):
This is so ridiculous, five feetaway and my permit is
completely covered.
And he didn't even.
And my daughter said well, whatabout my father and he said no,
no, no, I'm here for you.
So the health department onlygoes to a court, or it goes
after the complaint 50 peoplecould be there breaking the law,
but it only goes to a cart.
Or it goes after the complaint50 people could be there
breaking the law, but it onlygoes to that one person that
(27:32):
they got the complaint for.
And then they walk away, theyclose their eyes.
Everything else has happened.
It's, it's just amazing.
Especially when you'relegitimate, it really turns your
, your stomach, you know,knowing that, well, this is
going on and these clowns arecoming here just to bother me
and, uh, that's so well, youknow, I say I'm used to it, but
I'm almost used to it no, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I don't know how you would get used to that.
So if the community you knowsupports, supports the.
You know the cart and you knowother carts or whatever, does
the community not care aboutwhat you know, what they're
eating or potentially eating, orthe you know health risks or
anything like that?
Can't the community make astand, open their mouth, do
(28:14):
something?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
To who?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
The health department ?
I guess no.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
You got it.
Have a good time.
You know it's funny.
There's actually anorganization that advocates for
vendors, but the guy running itis part of the black market and
if you call 314 to make acomplaint, send it to him.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
All it's going to take is a group of people
getting sick from a vendor, andthat's when the phone's going to
hit the fan.
That's the only thing.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
That's different.
But who wants to see people getsick?
I understand that, but that'swhen the fan.
That's the only thing that'sdifferent.
But who wants to see people getsick?
I understand that, but that'sthat's nobody no, that's why we
why you have to be permitted.
The city waits for people forsomething bad to happen before
they act.
When they can resolve it beforeanything bad happens, they
don't do it.
There's nobody in charge that'sgoing to take that
responsibility.
(29:09):
It's not happening.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I mean I was shocked when we spoke the first time,
dan, and you were kind of layingsome breadcrumbs down for me
with some of this info, and I'mactually more shocked today, to
be honest with you, just for youto kind of go deeper in it a
little bit and hearing it, it'sshocking.
It's New York City for cryingout loud.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
It's New York City and people just don't see it.
I don't know, they just don't.
You get complaints.
Back in the 90s, I mean, therewas a war going against vendors.
They did every possible war inthe world to control us.
But that was legal vendors.
Everyone involved was legal, soit's easy to enforce laws
(29:54):
against legal people.
It's impossible to enforce alaw against an illegal person.
They're already breaking the lawlaw against an illegal person,
they're already breaking the law.
You know when, when they toldme that, that the inspector said
look, if it's got no permit,we're told to keep going.
So that told you everything,that.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
That told you the whole story well, they don't
have any right, they don't haveany jurisdiction.
It's like they only have ashutdown.
They can't remove you the thelaw, the police to do that
correct?
If I'm not mistaken, yeah, sono.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
The only one who can shut you down is the health
department.
At the end of May just to giveyou an example of how things
happened they came to my pushcart.
What happened was about fivecarts set up in a bus stop not
too far from me and they starteda big ruckus.
So the inspectors came down andthe health department goes up
to my car.
(30:46):
He looks at the permit and hesays this is a.
This permit's not allowed onthe fox property.
And I looked, we looked at what.
Are you crazy?
We're here 18 years.
My permit happens to probably bethe oldest permit in New York
City.
It was issued in 1983.
So he scraped the permit off mycart, shut me down, put a big
(31:08):
poster on my cart, you can'twork.
So I called up his supervisorand the supervisor was playing
stupid.
And then for almost four weeksthey wouldn't allow me to work,
until finally I started to talka little tough and then they
reversed themselves.
Oh, the permit is fine, I says.
But I almost lost four weeks ofwork.
And now you tell me the permitis fine.
(31:30):
If you knew the permit was finebefore you scraped it.
You know, I said you know.
These are the kind of gamesthey play.
And then you know what can youdo?
You end up going to court.
I'm gonna end up going to courtfor this.
I've been in court so manytimes in my life.
I don't want to go to court,but I have to do it.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You know I mean you're doing a service or you're
feeding people for crying outloud, and these guys are
breaking your balls, likeapparently, seemingly for no
reason, and you know, unlessyou're squirting ketchup on the,
on the sergeant's tie orsomething like that, Like you
know the fact that they're out,it's like they're out to get you
.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Well, I'm the key.
I'm the key of the wholeveteran vending issue.
I'm the only one who hasn'tgiven in to their games that
they're playing.
I refuse to go by what they'resaying because it's all unlawful
and once they get me, that'sthe end of the vets in the city.
And once they get me, that'sthe end of the vets in the city.
They're going to completelyremove any privileges we have
and just throw us in with theother vendors and that's the end
(32:26):
of us.
So they know getting me is likea home run and they've been
trying to do this for years.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany times I've been ticketed
and gone to court and they don'tcare about the decisions that
the courts bring out.
I actually argued the case inthe appellate court and won, and
the city said so what you won,we don't care what the judges
(32:47):
say.
They do what they want.
They will take you to courtagain.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
It's just that's the problem, and that specifically
has to do with your permit isrelated to being a disabled vet,
right.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
No, it doesn't matter what permit I have.
I'm the disabled vet and thestate protects me.
See, that's the problem.
We go under state laws, notcity laws.
We have to get a license fromthe city, but the state oversees
us and we have our own set oflaws.
And what they tried to do is,when they kicked all the vets
(33:24):
out of midtown years ago and Igot them back, they came up with
a law for them, for the peopleselling like general merchandise
hats and trinkets and stuff,and tried to tie it into a food
vendor.
And that's one of the things wewent to court for and we won.
We're food vendors, we're notselling hats.
You know, what they told me wasthey want me to give up my
permit and get a license to sellhats and then they'll give me
(33:48):
back a different permit.
I said but you want me to get alicense that doesn't allow me
to sell food.
He said, yeah, don't worryabout that.
I said, yeah, I am worriedabout that.
What am I?
A moron or something?
It was so stupid.
And then finally they gave in.
But that's what they'reexpecting me to do, and I'm the
only one who hasn't done it.
The other vets did it becausethey don't care, but I do care.
(34:11):
You know we all see thingsdifferently and you know I've
been through much.
I've been through too much withthe city and the government and
the law, then been through toomuch with the city and the
government and the law.
That I that what I know, I'mright and when the courts back
me up I'm going to stand bywhat's right.
I'm not going to just bend tothem because that's what they
want.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So you've actually.
So I, I saw your, I saw the,your feature on netflix.
You know, what is it?
Uh, usa street food orsomething like that, and you
were one of the, uh, one of thefeatures.
I thought it was a, I thoughtit was pretty great.
And as we're, as we're talkingyou know I do a lot of
formulating on the spot, right.
So you're, we spoke, I alreadyhave opinions, we're talking and
(34:53):
now those, you know, everythingkind of changes a little bit
and it, you know, comes out intothe podcast.
You, you really wear the NewYork hotdog King on your sleeve
Like that's, that's a part ofyour personality, right?
I mean because you know, likeyou said a second ago, like hey,
I'm the last one If they, ifthey, take me down, then the
(35:15):
whole thing goes away.
You're kind of like you're.
You're out there sitting on onyour proverbial throne, the cart
, and you're sitting up thereand you're going to run this to
the end, huh.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Well, I'm going to go to the end.
I figure I'm going to beturning 75.
I've got 15 more years.
We'll see how it turns out.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
How does that work?
You said, your daughter has acart next to you, right?
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, my daughter Elizabeth.
She served in the Marines too.
In fact we had to go to courtto get a permit.
I mean, that's how ridiculousit was.
When the state says you have togive it, they said we don't
care what the state says, westill have to go to court and
get it.
And the reason that I have tohave her next to me is because
if I didn't, there would be anillegal right next to me, is
(36:02):
because if I didn't there wouldbe an illegal right next to me,
they'd be here in a second.
That's why I sleep here everynight.
You know, in a minute.
And then I actually had onepolice captain says look, we'll
get rid of you before them.
And when you hear a policecaptain tell you that, you say
you know, I'm on my own, I haveto defend myself and that's what
I've been doing.
It's not a nice thing.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
So I mean, if you don't want to answer, you don't
have to, but are there.
I mean, do things get a littlerough over 90 overnight hours or
anything like intimidation orsomething like that.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, well, they did in the beginning.
You know we had some.
I remember once the five or sixguys came and they went into
the.
I was across the street by thetime I got back across the
street to the car to chase themaway.
They were trying to wreck thecar, scrape the decal off A few
times.
There were guys who thoughtthey were tough.
Well, you have no idea howtough I can be.
(36:53):
I don't take crap from anybody.
We had to face them down.
Let them know that we're goingto go to a level that they don't
want to go to Street stuff yougot to sometimes turn into.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
That.
Is that the same motivation,that fire, is that what brought
you to write your book?
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Oh yeah, you know, what happened was so many things
went on I mean fighting tobuild the company in the
beginning and the hold on to thecompany and I bought a nice
house.
You know, we got out of alittle house, bought a nice
place and what it was was theabuse that I saw people doing
against these disabled vets, andI could never handle abuse.
(37:37):
I never allowed anybody toabuse anybody when I'm around.
You know, there were certainthings that triggered me and
when I found out that therichest people in the city were
the ones abusing these men, Isaid you know, come on, guys,
all you have to do is help them.
You know we're not talkingabout a thousand people, there's
a few people.
And they dug in and I dug inand you know I remember when one
(37:59):
of the mayor's people said backaway from the vets and I said
it's not going to happen.
And he said, well, we're goingto bankrupt you.
I said you do what you got todo.
I said you know I can guaranteeyou that any combat vet out
there who's carried as manywounded and dead as I have is
never going to ever turn theirback on a vet, never.
It's not going to happen.
(38:20):
It's in our DNA and that was it.
And you know, when I say I'mthe last, it's because in my
mind, if I'm gone, the veteransare gone, you know, and maybe
something will turn around andsomebody will listen to me and
finally straighten this out.
But you know, I have to do whatI have to do.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So if you were going to give.
Let's just say that there's avet out there or somebody it
could be anybody, including aveteran and they want to kind of
get into the fold with you, orthey want to have a cart, but
they want to do it the right way.
I mean, is there advice thatyou would give somebody, Tell
them to don't do it at all, orwhat would you do?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
When my daughter came back from you know, and got out
of the Corps, the battalion wasin Brooklyn and a lot of the
men that were there you knowthey were coming out and they've
done you know two, three toursin Iraq and Afghanistan.
So they came back wobbly.
You know, when you come backout of combat you're not normal.
I hate to tell you that youdon't fit in.
And I must have had a halfdozen guys work with me.
(39:18):
I bring them in, calm them down.
They start to get readjustedand I said it's time for you to
go Now.
Go find something you can do.
And I did that to at least ahalf a dozen guys.
When I started my initial sheetmetal business hired all Vietnam
vets because nobody would hirethem.
You have to be one of them tounderstand them.
You have to go through whatthey're going through to
(39:41):
understand how to work around it.
The only problem I have now,after the pandemic that all
stopped.
I guess we don't have thefinancial means anymore to try.
We don't have that extra spotfor the guy.
I had a vet call my daughterthe other day.
I hear your dad will hire mydaughter.
He said you come on down.
He never came.
(40:01):
But we said you come on downand we'll try and fit you in
Squeeze a day, two days,whatever we can do.
If you want to learn how to geta permit, we'll take you to
court and get a permit.
If you want a cart, I hope youbuild it.
When I started my company, a vetwalked in the shop.
He got the cart for free adisabled vet.
(40:24):
I never once would take a pennyoff a guy.
Give him a shot.
There weren't that many of themat the time.
Now that's all gone.
That structure, that base.
I can't do it now because ofthe financial situation we're in
, but I would love to do it.
I would actually love it.
In fact, the city last year cameup with a program that was
(40:48):
actually backed up by anindividual to help veteran small
businesses and they would givethem a $20,000 grant.
So I went and I never heard.
I didn't know what a pitch was.
So I went and did a pitch, likeI'm talking to you.
That was the pitch, you know.
Everybody was coming up withcharts and all this and I said
what the hell is this, you know?
(41:08):
And I walked into a room andthere was about 30 people in
there.
So I went and I told them who Iwas and what I intended to do
and I said my problem is thecards that we have are 10 years
old.
They're falling.
Partner, I don't have the moneyto build new cars.
So I got it I mean theDepartment of Small Business
Service and especially theDepartment of Veterans Affairs
that they have in the city nowthe guy who's running it is this
(41:30):
guy, james Hendon the bestthing that ever happened to
veterans in New York City and Igot it and I built two new cars
for me and my daughter.
And I told him you know, therewas a time when I would be the
one that would be doing this.
No one had asked me.
I did it, but I can't do itanymore and then people helped
me.
So the good that I gave outsome of it came back to me, you
(41:54):
know.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
So I don't know I mean listen.
You know I'm just listening toyou and you know I don't know
what we can do.
You know we could talk about itoffline, but maybe we could try
to, you know, plug someresources or connections or
something like that, networkingto.
You know, just throw the hat inthe ring with you guys.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Well, there aren't too many guys to do it.
I mean, you know, if you'reright now in new york city,
there are probably only fivedisabled vets on food five.
That's it.
Not that I didn't get everyonea permit, because when I broke
the broke the door down to getmy daughter a permit, I was able
to get all the all the disabledvets a permit, but they they
went ahead and took them andleased them.
(42:39):
Being able to do this businessa a disabled person is extremely
hard.
They need a lot of support andthese guys didn't have a support
system.
So they went and they got thepermit, leased it illegally.
Everything is illegal now.
Everything is illegal and thatwas the end of them.
So when I had my company, therewas a system.
There were two other companiesthat were owned by vets.
(43:02):
We joined forces to help thevets.
You know, we had commissaryspace for them.
I built the cars for them, wetaught them.
That was different, but theytook that away from us.
The city was so against theveterans that they actually, you
know, basically they put me outof business just because I was
(43:25):
a disabled vet.
That was it and I was helpingthem.
That was it.
That's all gone.
There's absolutely no effort inNew York City to help us.
Nobody's going to help us, andI've been to the politicians
down there.
They don't even listen to you.
So you know.
But the way to do it is to doit on my own.
If I could, I would have a shop, I would have a little commerce
(43:46):
area and I would hire theseguys, just like I did before
they teach them how to buildcarts If they want to be a
vendor.
Teach them how to be a vendor,put them on the street, make
them independent.
Not that they work for me, thatthey work for themselves.
That was the whole goal forthis to get the guys back out
there into the world and learnto do things again.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
You know, like I said , first off, I want to thank you
for your service and yoursacrifice and your family
sacrifice for doing what you do.
Yeah, second off, I think oneof the biggest things with our,
with our reach.
I think it's important that weactually put the shine of light
on things, because you know theold saying, we have old sayings
(44:26):
for reasons.
Right, the squeaky wheel getsthe oil, and the more that we
squeak about this, the more thatthings need to change.
If the city of new york is doingthings against veterans, and
what are you doing?
Because these are the peoplethat give us the freedoms and
and after yesterday, what wecelebrated Patriot Day, which
affected New York greatly andthose 3,000 people that perished
(44:48):
.
It's disgusting to hear thisstuff like this.
There's different people outthere that are doing things.
My brother-in-law is somebodybig in the veterans affairs and
dealing with PTSD and it'sshocking to hear a city such as
New York, as great as it shouldbe, snuffing out for lack of
(45:08):
better terminology, snuffing outveterans.
You know the restaurantindustry in itself, we seem to
be the one that's the light ofthe moths, and the moths are the
misfits and the pirates andspecifically those that have
gone abroad to fight in combat.
Because we have the hierarchyand I've worked with so many
different veterans and I know Idon't know from ptsd of being in
(45:33):
battle, but I know from seeingthem and what they go through
I'm kind of disgusted with newYork right now.
As a matter of fact, yeah.
Yeah, and I think, unfortunately, you can't manage your business
and then attack the politicians, because you have to have that
quality of life plus have thebusiness, and you're protecting
(45:55):
that business because, forcrying out loud, the police
officers are not doing their job.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
quite frankly, I think it comes down to money.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
They were told to give up on it.
They were told to give up on it.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
The police, yeah, I mean in terms of the resistance
to fight this.
It comes down to money and, youknow, I have a feeling that we
might know some folks who are,you know, veteran-focused that
we might be able to connect withand maybe figure something out
there.
We got to look into it a littlebit.
I mean, if you're not a veteranyou should be.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
You should be upset, because these are people that
have actually given us thefreedom, maintain our freedom,
and that this is what's going onto our veterans.
It's disgusting, absolutelydisgusting.
We send boys to war and yetthey come home and we don't have
any means to integrate them,like you said, because they're
(46:46):
not ready to go back in thepublic, because they're in that
combat mode and they're in PTSDmode, and I understand that.
But this is an opportunity forus to integrate them back into
the society, to leave a normallife.
It's quite disgusting.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Well, I gave it my best shot.
I know I helped a lot of people, I mean especially when I first
started.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
We appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
These guys, you know the Vietnam vets.
They had it bad.
I mean we did.
I mean I remember going to VAto help and they said we're not
helping you guys.
You're just not credible.
I mean, imagine that.
And I walked out and I said, tohell with you, I'll do it on my
own.
I'll do it on my own and I did.
But you know, if you read mybook, you'll see where I went
(47:31):
down into that valley and I justbarely got out of it and, by
the way, the name of the book,folks, is the New York hot dog
king, from rags to riches, toless than rags.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I said that correctly .
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Yeah, right on the button.
All right, get it from Amazon.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
You can get it.
I was just going to say thatyou can get it on Amazon.
Check it out.
Listen, dan, I appreciate youcoming on the show today.
If people want to find out moreabout you, they can.
What on Instagram?
And why hot dogs?
Right?
Yep, yeah, you got it perfect.
Let's, uh, let's, let's, let'skeep the uh, let's keep the
(48:07):
conversation going, dan, and youknow we'll catch up.
There's a couple of people Iwant to introduce you to to see
if there's some synergies therethat maybe you know.
Maybe there's some some backup.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
I actually might have some big time reporters, but
shut the light on them.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Yeah, you, you, you can't make a stand by yourself
all the time.
You know, sometimes you needsome backup.
That's good, my daughter.
Well, so we got you know thatthat's, that's hardly going to
do anything, just being her.
Well, sometimes you need avoice.
You do anything, just being her.
Sometimes you need a voice, athird voice, because if you know
(48:44):
anything about politicians, youspeak to them twice.
They don't want to speak to youa third time.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Well, we're going to see what we can do for you, ben,
and we're about to.
We're coming up on a hard breakhere.
Appreciate you being on theshow today.
Thank you very much, jeff, john.
You did great today.
As always, we are out.
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