November 21, 2024 • 46 mins
Unpack the myths and realities of organic foods with us as we sit down with food safety expert Kiley Harper Larsen and food-inspired traveler Pooch Rivera. Have you ever wondered if organic produce truly offers a healthier or more environmentally friendly option? We promise to enlighten you as we explore these common misconceptions and dive into the recent organic carrot recall by Grimway Farms. Pooch gives us a taste of his latest culinary adventures, sharing intriguing experiences from the Pizza Tomorrow Summit and the World Food Championship in Indianapolis, including a glimpse into the future with a high-quality pizza vending machine.
In our engaging conversation, we tackle the pressing issue of food safety, discussing the intricate details of recalls and outbreaks. Kiley offers her expertise on the E. coli contamination linked to organic carrots, and we dissect the rigorous food safety practices essential for consumer protection. Discover the obstacles faced by large-scale operations and the crucial role of stringent cleaning and sanitation protocols. We also examine the broader implications for food safety standards in organic farming and the ongoing challenges of maintaining these standards as pathogens continue to evolve.
Our episode wraps up with reflections on convenience versus safety in fast food choices, and the balance we all seek in our daily lives. We celebrate the success of our exciting venture, "Cover Your Assets," and extend heartfelt gratitude to everyone who has supported us on this journey. A special thank you goes out to Curt Hicken for his culinary brilliance and to Kiley for her professionalism. Join us as we savor the stories of culinary exploration and com
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Thank you for listening to the Walk-In Talk Podcast, hosted by Carl Fiadini and Company. Our show not only explores the exciting and chaotic world of the restaurant business and amazing eateries but also advocates for mental health awareness in the food industry.
Our podcast offers a behind-the-scenes look at the industry. Don't miss out on upcoming episodes where we'll continue to cook up thought-provoking discussions on important topics, including mental health awareness.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
hello food fam.
This is the walk and talkpodcast where you will find the
perfect blend of food fun andcooking knowledge.
I'm your host, carl fiodini.
Welcome to the number one foodpodcast in the country.
We're recording on site atibages Studios, where food
photography comes alive and Iget to eat it.
Here is a humble request togive us a follow on Instagram at
(00:30):
walkandtalkshow, please andthank you.
This week we have food safetyexpert and dear friend of the
show, kylie Harper Larson.
She is a badass.
We'll be touching on thecurrent recall affecting organic
carrots and how this may expandinto conventional produce as
well.
That's like everything that'sout there grocery and food
(00:53):
service and whatnot.
Putravera is on the line to talkabout his food-inspired travels
over the last few weeks.
I was with him for some ofthose and I'll tell you what.
Man we're on fire over here.
Plus, I had my main man in thestudio cooking up some amazing
dishes, kurt Hicken, a chef bytrade turned meat salesman.
Kurt was on kitchen duty and hedelivered and I mean he
(01:17):
delivered, boy, I tell you what.
These are some pretty dishes.
John's photos of the dishes,naturally, are stunning.
Man, you're gonna.
I can't wait for you guys tosee these.
These are gonna be B-A-utiful.
Let's welcome Pooch and Kylieto the program.
Welcome y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thanks for having us.
Oh man, I tell you what soPooch my man.
Pooch the Pooch, sean Riveraboy, how you.
Oh man, I tell you what sopooch my man.
Pooch the pooch, sean riveraboy, how you.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Doing man I'm doing very well, man very well.
Just I just finished eatingsome baliadas at this real, this
new honduran restaurant here inuh mandeville, louisiana.
Got the invite to come try thatout.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So just doing the best, baby always eating all
right, so know, there's been alot of action here over the last
couple of weeks.
You and I did, we did thatevent at JetBlue, we did the
Pizza Summit, pizza TomorrowSummit.
You know that's part of theFRLA show also.
And then you were at the WFCman talk about it.
(02:22):
I mean, everything was prettyamazing.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Everything was pretty amazing.
So you know, obviously westarted off at the restaurant
show in Florida.
I went the day before you wentto help out Great friend and
colleague, friend of the show,jennifer Hill Booker.
She was doing a cooking demothere.
So obviously you know she and Iare two peas in a pod, so I
went and helped her out.
And then you came the next dayand we started our escapade on
(02:48):
trying different things foodsand whatnot, an interview and
everybody, great, great show, Imean.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Glenn was amazing.
The gentleman who puts thewhole.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Thing on Jerry Lynn, all of the above.
Hopefully some great thingswill be coming from that.
And then you know that rolledinto the whole JetBlue beat
Bobby Flay thing and that wasfun.
That will be coming out prettysoon on our platforms along with
JetBlue's platform.
And what did we not do?
Ate so much good food it'salmost like I'm still in a food
(03:18):
coma.
Then flew from Orlando toIndianapolis for the World Food
Championships.
It was the first year ever thatI was in.
Indianapolis so cool, thefunnest time Hung out with
everyone.
Tina from Rack Porcelain, ajBrianna from Metro, met some new
great friends from MundialKnives who hopefully we'll be
(03:40):
working with them soon, and Iwant to actually and you know
what I forgot all about at thePizza Summit.
We met Lori White of pizza dropand that was probably the thing
that moved me out of the wholethree week food escapade.
It was being able to order apizza from a vending machine
that is top notch quality, as ifyou were getting, as if you
(04:00):
know you were getting it from in, in, in, you know in.
Italy.
I mean, it was just that good,that much quality and that much
brilliance put into theinnovation of that.
I think that's going to go far.
But, man, you tell me how didyou feel about it?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So let me start with this pizza machine.
First of all, it's a vendingmachine for pizza, like hot,
fresh sliced pizza.
It's amazing and it's about thesize of a volkswagen, this
thing, it's a.
It's a fairly large unit, maybea little smaller than that, but
it's a fairly large unit holdslike six, 76 pizzas and you, you
(04:36):
order it like you were, youknow, pushing buttons, and
there's a pizza I loved.
What was really amazing is thatthe pizza tasted really good.
That was the shocker.
I'm not shocked that there's,you know, a machine that can do
this, the software, the, youknow technology I'm not that,
you know, okay, we're living inthat age, but the fact is it
(04:58):
tasted really good and thatmakes this thing special.
I think that's where it makesit special.
Also special was, you know this,this thing, we, the event that
we did at JetBlue.
That was really cool becausethat was for a little girl who
had, who had cancer and andshe's in remission, she's
beating it and it was justreally an amazing event.
(05:19):
And JetBlue is terrific.
What a company.
Because this was an employee'schild.
So they did this, you know, forthem and it was really special.
We, you know, we were able toparticipate and and we're you
know, we're blessed for that.
I don't know man, this wfc.
I wish I was there.
I missed it.
My man, I wish I could have.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Wfc was the best it's ever been, best it's ever been.
Class act.
Ike mcleod, you know, alwaysputs a class act together.
Indianapolis, what a greatguest city.
What a great, I mean what agreat city.
You know, leaving orland,living in new orleans great
hospitality city, going toorlando, which is even, you know
, debatable, even betterhospitality city, and then going
to indianapolis with, you know,I don't want to say I have was
(06:00):
low expectations, but I'mleaving new orleans, orlando,
and then I'm in Indianapolis.
Indianapolis is a class act.
The culinary scene there, man, Itell you what it really
inspired me.
It re-inspired my romance withthe restaurant industry and with
just the culinary industry initself.
I really there was a couple oftimes I was like pooch, don't do
it, don't try to open arestaurant here.
(06:21):
Cause I really said to a coupleof times to myself, like man, I
would love to open up arestaurant here.
It is such a great town andeveryone is so inviting.
And to the international, andthey really made WFC
(06:43):
international, not only becauseof all the you know now, they
had, I think.
I think it was 37 differentcountries competing this year.
But Indianapolis issurprisingly such an
international city and you knowthey pride themselves on being
the crossroads of America, andthey truly are.
And with that too, let me shoutout Dubai, shout out to Dubai
for winning the burger, thehamburger.
It was great to visit withTarek and Ola and their whole
team of so many people that theybrought from Dubai to compete
in this year's competition.
(07:03):
It's truly becoming a worldevent and it's always been a
class act, but this year it wasjust so well flowed, so well
streamlined, great sponsors,metro, rac Mundial.
I had a blast man.
I cannot wait till next year.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Wow, I guess we're done here.
Yeah, I couldn't say it bettermyself.
All right, so you're, you're,you're, you're becoming this
food media traveler now.
You know, under that walk andtalk badge, the banner, and
you're doing a terrific job.
I just wanted to give you propson air for that.
I appreciate you, absolutely,Absolutely.
(07:41):
We're doing big things andthere's there's more to come in
that whole profile, if you will.
All right, I cannot continue tolook to my right and and and
see our guests just anxiouslyawaiting to be introduced to the
program.
Okay, Kylie, how the hell areyou?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'm finer than frog.
Hair split three ways.
Wow, that's something.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I mean, I've not quite ever heard that before.
I wasn't really sure how toreact to that, if I'm to be
honest.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I kind of have that impression on most people.
I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So you got to hang out with us the whole day today.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I did.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And I think I already said to you why don't I just
come up here and do this onThursdays?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
True story.
I mean, she did mention likehey, you don't have to stop in,
carl, I'll just take care ofthis, and I was like, well,
that's kind of my gig, you knowwhat I mean.
But it's fine, I'm not mad atyou.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Most overqualified dishwasher you found.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So you've done real good, kid.
You've done real good, kid.
You've done real good, see, allright.
So check it out.
We had a great day today.
You know kurt hicken who is.
First he was a, he was a friend, he was a, a client down in
south florida of mine when I wasin produce.
He's a chef by trade.
He now works for peninsula foodservice as a salesman guy does
(09:03):
a terrific, terrific job and Ihad him come in today and he
cooked up four meat dishes.
Oh my gosh, I tell you what.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I mean, Kylie, how amazing, Purely an experience to
be had in front of you.
That's what I have to say.
And I told you you shouldbottle the smells.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, yes, you certainly did.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And I think it could be Cologne de Karl, but that's
just a working title.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Cologne de Karl, I think that would be more like
Oodie Toilette, right?
Is that what you're trying tosay?
Is that All right?
Honestly, the photos that cameout of today's production it's
stupid and I can't wait to getthem out.
John, we got to pick one forthe podcast cover, just saying
(09:57):
episode cover for today.
So, kylie, there's somethingbig happening right now in the
news and it has to do withcarrots Talk about it.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, you know, we got Thanksgiving coming up and
carrots are typically on almosteverybody's menu in a multitude
of different ways.
And currently, right now,Grimway Farms, which is one of
the single largest growers,manufacturers and processors of
both organic and conventionalcarrots, has a truly massive
(10:24):
recall going on right now.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
What misconceptions would a consumer have about
organic farming versus you know,you know and and education like
how does this work?
Because those carrots are babycarrots and those are processed
carrots.
Those aren't, like you know,baby carrots peeled that still
have the little nub top on them.
These are the actual little nub, little peeled carrots.
(10:50):
So those go through aprocessing procedure and they're
bagged and they're shipped out,you know, mostly for kids and
you know, grab them or whatever.
How does this happen?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, first and foremost, there's a lot of
misconceptions that consumersand, quite honestly, people in
the industry, in the foodindustry, have.
Number one organic does usepesticides.
They just use organic approvedpesticides.
A lot of people think thatorganic foods are healthier by
nature, and there's been timeand time again studies done by
(11:24):
both academic and researchinstitutes through the
government.
They're not healthier naturallyOrganic farming.
Another myth is that it isbetter for the environment and
unfortunately they still farm ina lot of the same ways as
conventional farmers do, usingthe same fossil fuels and quite
often having to use many moreacres to produce the amount that
(11:46):
is used.
Another thing is that theythink that organic farms aren't
large farms, and when we see theneed for organic especially
with baby carrots, which isprobably one of the leaders in
the organic space besidestomatoes that is typically done
(12:07):
by really large entities likeGrimway Farms.
These myths kind of proliferateand you'll see that people
really don't understand thedifferences, and then they're
making decisions based onfeelings and emotions rather
than facts.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right, based on feelings and emotions rather
than facts.
Right.
And in this case, you know likea lot of times E coli will come
from lettuce or something likethat, and it's usually processed
lettuce, cut lettuce, choppedlettuce, something that's you
know, gets thrown in a bag andyou know it's in the in the
freezer or not, the coolersection or whatever.
(12:44):
That's different.
It's not pulled out of theground with E coli.
Right?
Explain a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, the issue at hand is this is a type of E coli
that they found in theseorganic fresh carrots and it's a
type of shiga toxin-producing Ecoli.
And for those that arelistening in that, just don't
wake up in the middle of thenight and say, oh, tell me more
about shiga toxin-producing Ecoli.
You just simply need to knowthat it's highly pathogenic and
(13:13):
when it is taken in, it has ahigh instance that it will cause
illness, injury or death in thepeople that take it in.
If you have a compromisedimmune system.
And unfortunately, when we'remaking smarter decisions about
nutrition, we often look towardseating more fresh roots and
vegetables when the E coli isprobably coming from but the FDA
(13:36):
hasn't made an officialstatement yet but this
particular type typically comesfrom the stomachs of cattle.
And how did it make it there?
More than likely, it made itthere through either irrigation
water.
It could have made it through abioaerosol, which means that
(13:58):
the bacteria drifted in the air,or it could have happened
through a cross-contaminationevent, maybe a harvester that
was improperly cleaned andsanitized, but regardless, it
made its way into these bags.
A lot of times, when we'retalking about processing and
highly processed items like babycarrots.
I mean, guys, these babycarrots just don't come out with
(14:20):
tiny baby hands being harvestedand they are highly processed.
They start out with really,really big carrots.
We have to factor in cleaningand sanitation practices and I
will have to say that, generallyspeaking, for the amount of
produce that Grimway Farmsproduces, they really aren't in
the news.
(14:40):
A lot Food safety issues canhappen all the time, but they
tend to happen more and morewhen they have touched many
hands and many surfaces, and sowhen you're looking at fresh
fruits and vegetables being safeor not, it really has nothing
to do with organics orconventional.
It has everything to do withhow many times it's been handled
(15:03):
by human hands or it's touchedsurfaces that need cleaning and
sanitation.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Right, and typically these things happen.
You know, and again I'm notsaying where this occurred, this
particular instance, buttraditionally you will find it
happening in a processing centerwhere there is equipment,
blades cutting, where there'ssupposed to be protocols and
sanitation and the cleaning andbreakdown and rest time.
(15:29):
This way everybody can do theproper cleaning and all that
stuff and it typically happensthere.
So everybody can do the propercleaning and all that stuff and
it typically happens there.
I think it's rare to see it,that it's happening from the
farmhand who's you knowharvesting, you know, I mean it
can happen and I'm sure it does.
But my opinion and it isopinion is that it happens more
in the processing plants.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's typically where it gets spread.
When we look for where itactually came from, that's where
people, personnel and productsreally are factored in.
We call those the three Ps, andwe have to look at how people
move from, say, the farm to thefacility, how the product moves
from the farm to the facility,and then how the packaging as
(16:12):
well moves from the product tothe facility.
And typically what we'll do iswe'll find that it may have
originated elsewhere, found areally nice habitat where it
could grow like this E coli, andthen there's probably a piece
of equipment that I wouldtheorize, that is probably
improperly cleaned and sanitized, and what we have to really
(16:36):
think about is that humans arestill involved in the operations
and the management and we can'tbe calibrated.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
So when you're talking about USDA versus FDA
and who's in charge of what?
As of this moment, this isstill a recall.
Isn't this the largest recall?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It is going to be probably one of the largest
recalls that we see, because ofthe amount of pounds of carrots
that are involved and the factthat it's not just in consumer
packaging, it's involved in foodservice packaging.
Consumer packaging, it'sinvolved in food service
packaging and for those peoplethat are listening in, because
we are industry folks, foodservice means what goes into
your restaurants, what goes intoyour caterers, what goes into
(17:22):
your nursing homes and yourjails and your institutions like
hospitals.
And when we look at the amountof pounds, you typically buy a
half pound or a pound of carrots.
When you're a private entity,well, when you're in food
service, you buy five, 10, 25pound bags.
So there's a lot of carrotsthat are involved in this, plus
(17:44):
the amount of time.
We're not just talking about aone week production window here.
Some of these go all the wayback to August and continue
through November.
And, as a consumer, one of thethings that I can tell you is I
love a good BOGO.
Some of these go all the wayback to August and continue
through November.
And, as a consumer, one of thethings that I can tell you is I
love a good BOGO Plug to Publix,because they're my BOGO friends
and I love to come and buy.
(18:05):
One of the things is babycarrots.
I'll stick one fresh bag in thefridge and I take.
What do I do with the other bag?
I put it in the freezer.
So we want to make sure rightoff the bat, anybody that's got
carrots in their freezer fromtheir lace BOGO trip check those
and just make sure that they'renot part of this recall.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But I don't buy organic.
I don't have anything to worryabout.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, one of the misnomers is that organic
operations are only organic.
Most organic operations operatein the conventional realm in
one of two ways they either farmorganically and they farm
conventionally, or fast fact forthose of you who think, when
you purchase conventionalproducts, that you're not
(18:52):
purchasing organic, you verywell may be, because if they
weren't hitting a price pointand they had that produce to
sell and it was ready, organiccan be sold as conventional.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yes, you know it's funny, I don't have to go back
and look, but I'm thinking hadto be half of the last 10 years.
For Thanksgiving there's beensome sort of massive recall
Lettuce chives.
You know it's been like thisevery year almost, it seems.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yes, and there's actually some research that's
been done on that, and in thespring and the fall, e coli
tends to spread worse.
We don't know why, though, yet,but the virulence of spring and
fall production tends tocoincide with production of
(19:48):
agricultural crops like fruitsand vegetables, and here we find
ourselves right at Thanksgivingand right at Christmas.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So talk about the difference between the USDA and
the FDA.
Who's responsible for what?
How come these things arehappening, and it feels like we
know there's oversight, butwhere is it?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Very good question there.
Well, the United States has alot of oversight.
First of all, the USDAcertifies organics, but the FDA
actually has what we call thelegal purview for food safety.
So that's under the Food SafetyModernization Act that was
enacted January, the 4th of 2011, under the Obama administration
, and it's finally come into itsfull and complete understanding
(20:31):
where we have to be incompliance in the industry.
So what that essentially meansis that the organic standards
that are written, whether youare an organic grower or a
handler, is part of athird-party certification
program.
It has legal standards, butwhen we're talking about food
safety, food safety is under adifferent regulatory division.
(20:55):
The FDA and both divisions worktogether in a program called
the Center for Food Safety andApplied Nutrition, cfsan, but
they do not regulate together.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, I mean, there's a lot of information here and
we're going to try to pack a lotinto this episode, but I know
that this is going to.
This will be like a walk andtalk mini series, if you will.
So what is it?
So, all right, it's, it's still.
It's still a recall, and sothere's a different in terms of
you know the definitions ofrecall versus outbreak and the
(21:35):
implications that those have onpublic health.
So what is that?
One person, one death, equalsrecall, but two deaths, you know
, equal outbreak.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That's right, it's a legal definition, and so, as we
stand right now, there's beenonly one death, an elderly
individual, but there has been39 total illnesses, and of those
, 16 have been hospitalized, andone of those was the death.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So if I'm going to editorialize this a little bit,
right, I don't want anyonegetting sick and I don't want
anyone, certainly you know,losing life.
For the millions of people whoare eating carrots and for the
however many millions of poundsof carrots that are out there,
that seems pretty small,considering, you know.
(22:25):
Again, not saying it's a goodthing, but at the end of the day
, I don't know, these are scarywords.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
There are.
What you have to realize is thatGrimway Farms actually
voluntarily chose to recall this, rather than the FDA forcing
its hand at it, and so what theyhave chosen to do is, more than
likely, widen the breadth ofwhat could be implicated and
what is not.
(22:59):
That they had as tested positive, and they've made that
statement that they had in theirpossession.
However, what we do know is thatthe FDA does have positive
confirmation from 26 people outof 27 that they have been able
to interview.
That's, 96% of peopleinterviewed say that they have
(23:23):
eaten fresh carrots that wereorganic baby carrots within the
last week before they got sick,and that is probably one of the
biggest newsmakers in foodsafety in the produce realm that
we've seen is we are gettingmuch better at understanding and
reporting and detection, and,as I was talking to our chef
(23:47):
earlier about this, when youcast the net wide and you go
looking for trouble, so to speak, you're more apt to find it.
So, as far as the United Statesis concerned, we really have a
great food supply that is safeand it's essential to national
security.
But what we also have tounderstand is we have empowered
(24:11):
our regulatory agencies to makesure that we have an active
detection network so that we canrespond back to those needs and
we can keep people safe.
But what we need to understandis that with this particular
recall, we're not just talkingabout things that are labeled
Grimway Farms and GF.
We're talking about things thatare 18 different retailers are
(24:36):
involved in this.
We're talking about over 30brand names are included in this
and there's at least 18 states.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So you have organic foods and with organic foods you
have a change, many changes tohow you execute farming, the
tactics, the processes, whatever.
Is there risks associated withbuying and consuming organic
(25:07):
foods?
And before you answer that, Iyou know, I've been in the
produce.
I was in the produce industryfor 20 plus years and you know
if, if it's from the unitedstates and it's stamped organic,
I tend to go with that.
I am skeptical, I've always beenskeptical about organics coming
(25:31):
from outside of the country,and that isn't any disrespect to
anyone in particular, anycountries or whatever it's just
I know that our organicstandards are pretty high trees
or whatever it's just I knowthat our organic standards are
pretty high.
But I also know that when you,when you're farming, if you're,
if you're used to getting, youknow, let's just say it's never
a hundred percent.
But if you're used to getting ahundred percent yield and now
(25:53):
you're doing organics and andyou're only getting 20% yield,
well, that stinks.
Number one, it's more expensive.
But also, now you're you'refighting more pests.
You can't use the same sort ofchemical-based products.
Everything changes.
But how does that make it let'squote-unquote maybe more risky
or more dangerous to consume?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, let me just go ahead and say that anytime you
consume any foods, you're takinga risk, whether it's fresh or
in that fresh realm, if it isorganic or it's conventional.
We have to realize that what weput into our mouth can be risky
, but we have to understand whatrisks are inherent and
(26:36):
unfortunately, science says thatorganics tend to be involved in
more pronounced, largeroutbreaks and recalls.
That's just the numbers.
The next thing is is that theorganic standards demand that
only organically approvedfertilizers and pesticides be
(26:58):
used.
So that means that we have morenatural and that means
biofertilizers and bio-derivedfertilizers.
And for those of you who maynot be following me, I'm talking
about poop, poop from some formor fashion, dried poop, wet
(27:19):
poop that have to be enacted,that if that type of poop
fertilizer or biofertilizer isused, that we can safely plant
into that ground.
Or if someone is organicallygrowing in aquaponic situations,
how maybe that fish meal thatthey are using when it can be
applied and when it can't beapplied?
(27:40):
There's also pesticides that Ijust want to state again.
They're used, they're justorganically approved or
organically derived.
And what does that mean?
That just means that they'renatural and a standards board
that the United StatesDepartment of Agriculture has
formulated between a bunch ofacademics, a lot of researchers,
(28:03):
people in the industry.
I actually know a couple ofpeople who serve on this board
that they look at and theyreview and they make sure that
these standards help protectconsumers and also protect what
they consider to be organicstandards.
But pesticides are used andunfortunately they tend to be
used two to three times moreoften than conventional
(28:26):
production.
Now I will say that with fulldisclosure.
I am a conventional producer,but I am a very cautious
conventional producer On theside.
You know, I pay for my farminghabit with consulting and, with
that being said, I don't makedecisions about our farm with my
husband without looking at whatis the best to use.
(28:48):
I use both conventional andorganic products on my operation
because the number one reasonis it's best for the environment
at that time.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I feel like you just heard a lot of people's feelings
.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I unfortunately don't get paid to say nice things.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes.
So I mean, there's a lot ofbutthurt people out there right
now.
Whoever just heard that youknow you just destroyed their
whole you know paradigm.
All right, so then, what is thedifference between the
regulatory systems here in theUnited States versus you know
other countries?
You know why is there?
(29:28):
Why would there potentially besome sort of disparity in
quality?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, one of the main reasons is because we have
local and state governments inthe United States that are
actively involved in making surethat farmers in their area are
following both local and statelaws, as well as federal laws.
Agriculture, some county thatthey actively work to make sure
that, through visual observationand inspection, that we are
(30:08):
being checked.
One of the main things toreally understand is that
foreign product less than 2% ofit is actively inspected and
fewer than that is sampled whenit comes across our borders or
is flown into our airports andour ports.
So when we're looking at theactive amount of produce that's
(30:28):
coming through those ways, weactually have a really
incredible surveillance programthat's going on, not to say that
it doesn't need quite a lot ofoversight and that there needs
to be some revamping.
Right now, for instance, thereis a complete reorganization of
the FDA going on.
It started October the 1st andwhat we may see with this
(30:49):
particular recall that's beengoing on, as well as the
McDonald's onion recall.
That's right, I didn't evenhear about that.
Yeah, the McDonald's onionrecall is happening with Taylor
Farms right now and that's thereason why people didn't have a
quarter pounder available tocome through for over two weeks,
and I don't know about you, butagain highly processed product
(31:11):
that wasn't organic, productthat was conventional I mean,
yes, I'm hurt right now.
I mean, I didn't even, I'm hurtby that should I have called you
and said don't go through't gothrough the McDonald's
drive-thru and get a McDonald's.
So I'm on the road a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Listen, I eat very.
I eat a lot of good, healthystuff at home.
Okay, I mean, that's the truth.
Wifey cooks, my mother-in-lawcooks, everybody cooks really
healthy, so I'm great.
But I'm on the road a lot and Ijust don to pack a lunch or you
know, sit down, have a nice sitdown, you know lunch or
something.
So I mean I had a drive throughand because, so just for
(31:52):
reference, when you're drivingand eating at the same time, the
cleanest experience isMcDonald's.
Everything it's all neatlypackaged, you can take a bite,
you order cheeseburgers andyou're good to go, Like you, you
can eat it.
It's not going to drip all overyour shirt, pants the whole
nine yards.
So there's a process for that.
There's, there is.
I have a process for eatingwhile driving and mickey d's is
(32:15):
my go-to.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Okay it's because they have the best rewards app
for that I don't even.
I don't use the app.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I don't care about the app, I don't need, I don't
points.
I feel terrible that I eat thisstuff.
To begin with I don't need, Idon't need to be rewarded for it
, but I do consume it and it iswhat it is.
So that kind of hurt me alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
And it's actively going on.
And what I can tell you isTaylor Farms can't point to the
grower right now.
I'm actively checking thisevery single day because my firm
actually represents some oniongrowers and one of the things
that we know in the produceindustry is we all buy from each
(32:55):
other.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I, I, I listen, I've sold I couldn't put a number, a
dollar amount on on the amountof Taylor farms products in my
tenure in produce.
Okay, if there is such a hugeoutfit and by and large they do
a great job, I will say that oneone, one side of the country
does better than the other sideof the country in terms of what
(33:18):
you know their deliverables.
But hey, you know I'm not goingto get into that.
They, they all, do a great joband I'm not picking sides and
I'm not pointing fingers.
But damn, taylor farms, they've, they've had it rough the last
couple of years, man, likethey've been getting hit
constantly.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Fires everything.
They're one of the largestentities, just like Grimway
Farms and, fun fact, you knowthose are both family-owned
operations that have a longtenure.
But we have seen them and theirfamilies make active purchases
of other farms and processingplants and they have grown.
(33:51):
Hard to control that Don't hatethe player hate the game, but
the game keeps changing andthat's one of the things.
As we think we know enoughabout microflora, okay, Bacteria
, viruses and pathogens andparasites.
They keep changing.
You know, Darwin told us thatsurvival of the fittest.
Well, we're changing ourpractices, but what's outpacing
(34:15):
that is how pathogens are ableto infiltrate into our bodies.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Are we supposed to trust organics now?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So here's what I would say you have to trust what
you understand to be research,truth.
Okay, and that is kind of adeep subject, you need to know
where your food's coming from.
So shame on you that you didn'tknow that Taylor Farms was
producing those micro-dicedonions.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I know there's like three companies that own
everything.
You know what I mean.
It's all related, it's allcrossed over, paths are crossing
everywhere.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I don't know where McDonald's diced onions are
coming from, but I eat them andthey're delicious.
I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But what you need to know is that everything that
you're putting this goes back towhat I said everything that you
put into your mouth has a risk.
Okay, mouth has a risk.
Okay, so we can't finger pointat the fresh produce or the
fresh product necessarily alwaysbeing the thing that's going to
make us sick.
It's just the fact that becausewe don't tend to cook it as
(35:25):
much means we don't have a killstep.
Okay, many times, if you'llthink about your chicken that
you're eating on your soup, yourhealthy plate, most days, 50%
of chicken breasts come withactive salmonella on it.
Do you even think about that?
Or do you just say, well, I'mgoing to cook it.
Well, the unfortunate thing is,you didn't cook that onion
(35:48):
because it wouldn't give you thecrispness of the flavor.
When they were looking at thatwith the focus groups Again,
when they're reformulating allof the flavor.
When they were looking at thatwith the focus groups again,
when they're reformulating allof the different recipes well,
you don't want mushy onions onthere.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I mean, I guess we're all gamblers, right?
Yeah you gotta know when tohold them, when to fold them,
you know I would just say thatwe're decently running with an
unknown risk.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Some people blindly and those of us who eat, breathe
and sleep and wake up at twoo'clock in the morning and are
checking social media for ourclients to make sure they're not
actively involved now in arecall or an outbreak.
We're making a little moreeducated guesses.
But I still am consuming freshfruits and vegetables every
(36:36):
single day.
I just understand the risk alittle bit better than the
layman.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
So, in light of the recent food safety challenges
that are out there right now,what advice are you going to
give the consumer?
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Number one know where your food comes from.
Number two try to consume localfoods.
That means that it is going tocome with microflora that
identifies with what's alreadyin your gut, so it's less likely
fun fact to make you sick.
The next thing is is that it'sgoing to get to you fresher, so
if it did have something bad onit, it's less likely to be as
(37:12):
toxic.
The next thing is if you've gotto consume produce for a
particular event, especiallythat has come from food service
and catering and it's been outon a buffet, you just want to
look at items that have theability to have, say, a
vinaigrette if you're doing asalad, because if you serve
(37:33):
something with a vinaigrette,you're doing a salad, because if
you serve something with avinaigrette, it has acidity and
it can actually take a bacterialload down.
So if you're making a choice ona salad buffet, choose a
vinaigrette over that ranchdressing and that kind of hurts
me in the heart because you knowI'm a deep South gal and I
believe that ranch dressing camefrom Jesus Christ, but quality
(37:54):
ranch dressing, let me say thereAmen to that, but that's one of
the main things.
The other thing is and I'm a bitof a hater, okay, and for those
of you that now are like, oh,I'm about to shut this off I'm
also going to say I don't eatcantaloupe.
Cantaloupe is so risky.
(38:14):
I make my husband eat itoutside.
He chooses to eat it in thegarage.
I don't let it come in my house.
It has so many risks.
And let me just tell you thatwhen we have to test it in the
laboratory, we have to cook it,and cooked cantaloupe is similar
.
When I smell it, youimmediately can identify what a
(38:34):
dead rat smells like.
You never forget it.
Cooked cantaloupe is that to me.
So if I see a melon bowl, ofmixed melons and it has
cantaloupe in it, I don't eat it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's crazy talk.
Well, let me say it like thiswhen they're in season, you know
, and they're from, you know,domestic, in season, local, I
love them.
The bricks is hot, they'resweet and delicious, they're
fantastic.
I I suppose maybe are youreferring to those little
(39:06):
beauties are you talking about,like?
Speaker 2 (39:08):
generalizations.
They're all netted melons, theyall grow on the the ground.
They have a pH that makes itquite conducive for bacterial
growth and rarely is acantaloupe consumed all at once.
So what happens is you slicethrough it with your
(39:28):
questionable knife on yourquestionable cutting board and
then you put it, maybe maybe ina bag, maybe okay, or maybe you
wrap it with your saran wrap andstick it back in to grow
bacteria.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Don't smile at me after you say something like
that.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
That's well.
I'll just remind you of thepsychological principle that if
I'm crazy, then so is everybodyelse, since you're establishing
the norm to yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Look, I, I think I'm winning in all of this because
you know, is that like a Charlie?
Sheen winning no, my gosh, no,no man, tiger blood, yeah, I
don't think so.
Charlie Sheen, right, that waswhat you're talking about, so
think so.
Transition, right, I was gonnatalk about.
So, yeah, I mean no, but I alot of vegetables get cooked in
my house and I avoid them all.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I'm really into the proteins and the good proteins,
so there, I don't really thinkthat there's necessarily a bad
protein, even if it comes with alittle bit of fat.
Now I will say, for those ofyou that are like writing notes
down now, because now I'm enemyof the state for organics, I
will say that there is onepositive that I found in some of
(40:41):
my research.
You know, because I tried to beprepared for today's podcast,
that organic proteins have beenshown to actually have leaner
fat content than conventionalproteins, and that's necessarily
because organic proteins, mostof the time, they are consuming
(41:05):
grasses rather than feeds thatcontain lots of corn and weed
and other things.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's just like game.
It's just like deer and boarand stuff like that.
It's very lean.
All of that bison, all thatstuff is very lean simply
because of what they're eating.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yes, and I will say for a plug, with Kurt's lamb
chop today from Peninsular FoodService.
One thing that I discoveredbecause I had questions as I was
smelling the savoriness thatwas emanating from the kitchen
is that Colorado lamb, which thelamb chop is actually is a
(41:46):
leaner protein than theAustralian lamb and it's
actually better for theenvironment.
So I read that and I thoughtokay, that's great.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Well, I mean, I'll tell you what, in terms of
Peninsula, I mean, they hookedup today Creekstone Farm, the
beef part, Creekstone the ribeyeoh my God, Everything was so
delicious Like melt in yourmouth.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
It was an honor to hold the light for you as you
videoed him and you.
Let me smell that for free.
I'm serious.
For those of you listening tothis?
He could sell tickets to thesmells that are coming.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I would purchase, I would buy, I'm a buyer, I'm in,
I'm a customer.
Baby, you know what I'm saying?
All right, why don't?
How do people find you?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
How do they find me?
Well, find me on Instagram, gota new business called Cover
your Assets.
I'm still the ag safety lady.
I'm just into covering moreassets these days and they can
also find me on Facebook,linkedin and, as a couple of my
customers say, just point thebat signal towards the sky.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Right, but that I show up.
No, okay, okay, I thought thatwas drum beats, it was, it could
have been All right.
So listen, today was reallyawesome, john, you know we we
did a lot today.
You were nervous about thiswhole thing.
You're like, how are we goingto pull this all off?
I said because we're bad asses.
That's why, okay, you know.
(43:19):
Thanks again, peninsula for thegrub.
It was awesome.
Kurt, you did a terrific jobtoday.
Tasted delicious, looks great.
The photos are awesome.
Kylie, you're like the mostprofessional person I know.
I just want to put that outthere.
All right, are you coming?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
back soon.
You're going to do thisAbsolutely Anytime you ask me to
come.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
All right, beautiful.
Thank you kindly.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
We are out Sorry.
hello food fam.
This is the walk and talkpodcast where you will find the
perfect blend of food fun andcooking knowledge.
I'm your host, carl fiodini.
Welcome to the number one foodpodcast in the country.
We're recording on site atibages Studios, where food
photography comes alive and Iget to eat it.
Here is a humble request togive us a follow on Instagram at
(00:30):
walkandtalkshow, please andthank you.
This week we have food safetyexpert and dear friend of the
show, kylie Harper Larson.
She is a badass.
We'll be touching on thecurrent recall affecting organic
carrots and how this may expandinto conventional produce as
well.
That's like everything that'sout there grocery and food
(00:53):
service and whatnot.
Putravera is on the line to talkabout his food-inspired travels
over the last few weeks.
I was with him for some ofthose and I'll tell you what.
Man we're on fire over here.
Plus, I had my main man in thestudio cooking up some amazing
dishes, kurt Hicken, a chef bytrade turned meat salesman.
Kurt was on kitchen duty and hedelivered and I mean he
(01:17):
delivered, boy, I tell you what.
These are some pretty dishes.
John's photos of the dishes,naturally, are stunning.
Man, you're gonna.
I can't wait for you guys tosee these.
These are gonna be B-A-utiful.
Let's welcome Pooch and Kylieto the program.
Welcome y'all.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Thanks for having us.
Oh man, I tell you what soPooch my man.
Pooch the Pooch, sean Riveraboy, how you.
Oh man, I tell you what sopooch my man.
Pooch the pooch, sean riveraboy, how you.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Doing man I'm doing very well, man very well.
Just I just finished eatingsome baliadas at this real, this
new honduran restaurant here inuh mandeville, louisiana.
Got the invite to come try thatout.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So just doing the best, baby always eating all
right, so know, there's been alot of action here over the last
couple of weeks.
You and I did, we did thatevent at JetBlue, we did the
Pizza Summit, pizza TomorrowSummit.
You know that's part of theFRLA show also.
And then you were at the WFCman talk about it.
(02:22):
I mean, everything was prettyamazing.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Everything was pretty amazing.
So you know, obviously westarted off at the restaurant
show in Florida.
I went the day before you wentto help out Great friend and
colleague, friend of the show,jennifer Hill Booker.
She was doing a cooking demothere.
So obviously you know she and Iare two peas in a pod, so I
went and helped her out.
And then you came the next dayand we started our escapade on
(02:48):
trying different things foodsand whatnot, an interview and
everybody, great, great show, Imean.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Glenn was amazing.
The gentleman who puts thewhole.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Thing on Jerry Lynn, all of the above.
Hopefully some great thingswill be coming from that.
And then you know that rolledinto the whole JetBlue beat
Bobby Flay thing and that wasfun.
That will be coming out prettysoon on our platforms along with
JetBlue's platform.
And what did we not do?
Ate so much good food it'salmost like I'm still in a food
(03:18):
coma.
Then flew from Orlando toIndianapolis for the World Food
Championships.
It was the first year ever thatI was in.
Indianapolis so cool, thefunnest time Hung out with
everyone.
Tina from Rack Porcelain, ajBrianna from Metro, met some new
great friends from MundialKnives who hopefully we'll be
(03:40):
working with them soon, and Iwant to actually and you know
what I forgot all about at thePizza Summit.
We met Lori White of pizza dropand that was probably the thing
that moved me out of the wholethree week food escapade.
It was being able to order apizza from a vending machine
that is top notch quality, as ifyou were getting, as if you
(04:00):
know you were getting it from in, in, in, you know in.
Italy.
I mean, it was just that good,that much quality and that much
brilliance put into theinnovation of that.
I think that's going to go far.
But, man, you tell me how didyou feel about it?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So let me start with this pizza machine.
First of all, it's a vendingmachine for pizza, like hot,
fresh sliced pizza.
It's amazing and it's about thesize of a volkswagen, this
thing, it's a.
It's a fairly large unit, maybea little smaller than that, but
it's a fairly large unit holdslike six, 76 pizzas and you, you
(04:36):
order it like you were, youknow, pushing buttons, and
there's a pizza I loved.
What was really amazing is thatthe pizza tasted really good.
That was the shocker.
I'm not shocked that there's,you know, a machine that can do
this, the software, the, youknow technology I'm not that,
you know, okay, we're living inthat age, but the fact is it
(04:58):
tasted really good and thatmakes this thing special.
I think that's where it makesit special.
Also special was, you know this,this thing, we, the event that
we did at JetBlue.
That was really cool becausethat was for a little girl who
had, who had cancer and andshe's in remission, she's
beating it and it was justreally an amazing event.
(05:19):
And JetBlue is terrific.
What a company.
Because this was an employee'schild.
So they did this, you know, forthem and it was really special.
We, you know, we were able toparticipate and and we're you
know, we're blessed for that.
I don't know man, this wfc.
I wish I was there.
I missed it.
My man, I wish I could have.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Wfc was the best it's ever been, best it's ever been.
Class act.
Ike mcleod, you know, alwaysputs a class act together.
Indianapolis, what a greatguest city.
What a great, I mean what agreat city.
You know, leaving orland,living in new orleans great
hospitality city, going toorlando, which is even, you know
, debatable, even betterhospitality city, and then going
to indianapolis with, you know,I don't want to say I have was
(06:00):
low expectations, but I'mleaving new orleans, orlando,
and then I'm in Indianapolis.
Indianapolis is a class act.
The culinary scene there, man, Itell you what it really
inspired me.
It re-inspired my romance withthe restaurant industry and with
just the culinary industry initself.
I really there was a couple oftimes I was like pooch, don't do
it, don't try to open arestaurant here.
(06:21):
Cause I really said to a coupleof times to myself, like man, I
would love to open up arestaurant here.
It is such a great town andeveryone is so inviting.
And to the international, andthey really made WFC
(06:43):
international, not only becauseof all the you know now, they
had, I think.
I think it was 37 differentcountries competing this year.
But Indianapolis issurprisingly such an
international city and you knowthey pride themselves on being
the crossroads of America, andthey truly are.
And with that too, let me shoutout Dubai, shout out to Dubai
for winning the burger, thehamburger.
It was great to visit withTarek and Ola and their whole
team of so many people that theybrought from Dubai to compete
in this year's competition.
(07:03):
It's truly becoming a worldevent and it's always been a
class act, but this year it wasjust so well flowed, so well
streamlined, great sponsors,metro, rac Mundial.
I had a blast man.
I cannot wait till next year.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Wow, I guess we're done here.
Yeah, I couldn't say it bettermyself.
All right, so you're, you're,you're, you're becoming this
food media traveler now.
You know, under that walk andtalk badge, the banner, and
you're doing a terrific job.
I just wanted to give you propson air for that.
I appreciate you, absolutely,Absolutely.
(07:41):
We're doing big things andthere's there's more to come in
that whole profile, if you will.
All right, I cannot continue tolook to my right and and and
see our guests just anxiouslyawaiting to be introduced to the
program.
Okay, Kylie, how the hell areyou?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'm finer than frog.
Hair split three ways.
Wow, that's something.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I mean, I've not quite ever heard that before.
I wasn't really sure how toreact to that, if I'm to be
honest.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I kind of have that impression on most people.
I'm okay with it.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
So you got to hang out with us the whole day today.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I did.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
And I think I already said to you why don't I just
come up here and do this onThursdays?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
True story.
I mean, she did mention likehey, you don't have to stop in,
carl, I'll just take care ofthis, and I was like, well,
that's kind of my gig, you knowwhat I mean.
But it's fine, I'm not mad atyou.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Most overqualified dishwasher you found.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So you've done real good, kid.
You've done real good, kid.
You've done real good, see, allright.
So check it out.
We had a great day today.
You know kurt hicken who is.
First he was a, he was a friend, he was a, a client down in
south florida of mine when I wasin produce.
He's a chef by trade.
He now works for peninsula foodservice as a salesman guy does
(09:03):
a terrific, terrific job and Ihad him come in today and he
cooked up four meat dishes.
Oh my gosh, I tell you what.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I mean, Kylie, how amazing, Purely an experience to
be had in front of you.
That's what I have to say.
And I told you you shouldbottle the smells.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, yes, you certainly did.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
And I think it could be Cologne de Karl, but that's
just a working title.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Cologne de Karl, I think that would be more like
Oodie Toilette, right?
Is that what you're trying tosay?
Is that All right?
Honestly, the photos that cameout of today's production it's
stupid and I can't wait to getthem out.
John, we got to pick one forthe podcast cover, just saying
(09:57):
episode cover for today.
So, kylie, there's somethingbig happening right now in the
news and it has to do withcarrots Talk about it.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Well, you know, we got Thanksgiving coming up and
carrots are typically on almosteverybody's menu in a multitude
of different ways.
And currently, right now,Grimway Farms, which is one of
the single largest growers,manufacturers and processors of
both organic and conventionalcarrots, has a truly massive
(10:24):
recall going on right now.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
What misconceptions would a consumer have about
organic farming versus you know,you know and and education like
how does this work?
Because those carrots are babycarrots and those are processed
carrots.
Those aren't, like you know,baby carrots peeled that still
have the little nub top on them.
These are the actual little nub, little peeled carrots.
(10:50):
So those go through aprocessing procedure and they're
bagged and they're shipped out,you know, mostly for kids and
you know, grab them or whatever.
How does this happen?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, first and foremost, there's a lot of
misconceptions that consumersand, quite honestly, people in
the industry, in the foodindustry, have.
Number one organic does usepesticides.
They just use organic approvedpesticides.
A lot of people think thatorganic foods are healthier by
nature, and there's been timeand time again studies done by
(11:24):
both academic and researchinstitutes through the
government.
They're not healthier naturallyOrganic farming.
Another myth is that it isbetter for the environment and
unfortunately they still farm ina lot of the same ways as
conventional farmers do, usingthe same fossil fuels and quite
often having to use many moreacres to produce the amount that
(11:46):
is used.
Another thing is that theythink that organic farms aren't
large farms, and when we see theneed for organic especially
with baby carrots, which isprobably one of the leaders in
the organic space besidestomatoes that is typically done
(12:07):
by really large entities likeGrimway Farms.
These myths kind of proliferateand you'll see that people
really don't understand thedifferences, and then they're
making decisions based onfeelings and emotions rather
than facts.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Right, based on feelings and emotions rather
than facts.
Right.
And in this case, you know likea lot of times E coli will come
from lettuce or something likethat, and it's usually processed
lettuce, cut lettuce, choppedlettuce, something that's you
know, gets thrown in a bag andyou know it's in the in the
freezer or not, the coolersection or whatever.
(12:44):
That's different.
It's not pulled out of theground with E coli.
Right?
Explain a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Well, the issue at hand is this is a type of E coli
that they found in theseorganic fresh carrots and it's a
type of shiga toxin-producing Ecoli.
And for those that arelistening in that, just don't
wake up in the middle of thenight and say, oh, tell me more
about shiga toxin-producing Ecoli.
You just simply need to knowthat it's highly pathogenic and
(13:13):
when it is taken in, it has ahigh instance that it will cause
illness, injury or death in thepeople that take it in.
If you have a compromisedimmune system.
And unfortunately, when we'remaking smarter decisions about
nutrition, we often look towardseating more fresh roots and
vegetables when the E coli isprobably coming from but the FDA
(13:36):
hasn't made an officialstatement yet but this
particular type typically comesfrom the stomachs of cattle.
And how did it make it there?
More than likely, it made itthere through either irrigation
water.
It could have made it through abioaerosol, which means that
(13:58):
the bacteria drifted in the air,or it could have happened
through a cross-contaminationevent, maybe a harvester that
was improperly cleaned andsanitized, but regardless, it
made its way into these bags.
A lot of times, when we'retalking about processing and
highly processed items like babycarrots.
I mean, guys, these babycarrots just don't come out with
(14:20):
tiny baby hands being harvestedand they are highly processed.
They start out with really,really big carrots.
We have to factor in cleaningand sanitation practices and I
will have to say that, generallyspeaking, for the amount of
produce that Grimway Farmsproduces, they really aren't in
the news.
(14:40):
A lot Food safety issues canhappen all the time, but they
tend to happen more and morewhen they have touched many
hands and many surfaces, and sowhen you're looking at fresh
fruits and vegetables being safeor not, it really has nothing
to do with organics orconventional.
It has everything to do withhow many times it's been handled
(15:03):
by human hands or it's touchedsurfaces that need cleaning and
sanitation.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Right, and typically these things happen.
You know, and again I'm notsaying where this occurred, this
particular instance, buttraditionally you will find it
happening in a processing centerwhere there is equipment,
blades cutting, where there'ssupposed to be protocols and
sanitation and the cleaning andbreakdown and rest time.
(15:29):
This way everybody can do theproper cleaning and all that
stuff and it typically happensthere.
So everybody can do the propercleaning and all that stuff and
it typically happens there.
I think it's rare to see it,that it's happening from the
farmhand who's you knowharvesting, you know, I mean it
can happen and I'm sure it does.
But my opinion and it isopinion is that it happens more
in the processing plants.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
That's typically where it gets spread.
When we look for where itactually came from, that's where
people, personnel and productsreally are factored in.
We call those the three Ps, andwe have to look at how people
move from, say, the farm to thefacility, how the product moves
from the farm to the facility,and then how the packaging as
(16:12):
well moves from the product tothe facility.
And typically what we'll do iswe'll find that it may have
originated elsewhere, found areally nice habitat where it
could grow like this E coli, andthen there's probably a piece
of equipment that I wouldtheorize, that is probably
improperly cleaned and sanitized, and what we have to really
(16:36):
think about is that humans arestill involved in the operations
and the management and we can'tbe calibrated.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
So when you're talking about USDA versus FDA
and who's in charge of what?
As of this moment, this isstill a recall.
Isn't this the largest recall?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It is going to be probably one of the largest
recalls that we see, because ofthe amount of pounds of carrots
that are involved and the factthat it's not just in consumer
packaging, it's involved in foodservice packaging.
Consumer packaging, it'sinvolved in food service
packaging and for those peoplethat are listening in, because
we are industry folks, foodservice means what goes into
your restaurants, what goes intoyour caterers, what goes into
(17:22):
your nursing homes and yourjails and your institutions like
hospitals.
And when we look at the amountof pounds, you typically buy a
half pound or a pound of carrots.
When you're a private entity,well, when you're in food
service, you buy five, 10, 25pound bags.
So there's a lot of carrotsthat are involved in this, plus
(17:44):
the amount of time.
We're not just talking about aone week production window here.
Some of these go all the wayback to August and continue
through November.
And, as a consumer, one of thethings that I can tell you is I
love a good BOGO.
Some of these go all the wayback to August and continue
through November.
And, as a consumer, one of thethings that I can tell you is I
love a good BOGO Plug to Publix,because they're my BOGO friends
and I love to come and buy.
(18:05):
One of the things is babycarrots.
I'll stick one fresh bag in thefridge and I take.
What do I do with the other bag?
I put it in the freezer.
So we want to make sure rightoff the bat, anybody that's got
carrots in their freezer fromtheir lace BOGO trip check those
and just make sure that they'renot part of this recall.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
But I don't buy organic.
I don't have anything to worryabout.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, one of the misnomers is that organic
operations are only organic.
Most organic operations operatein the conventional realm in
one of two ways they either farmorganically and they farm
conventionally, or fast fact forthose of you who think, when
you purchase conventionalproducts, that you're not
(18:52):
purchasing organic, you verywell may be, because if they
weren't hitting a price pointand they had that produce to
sell and it was ready, organiccan be sold as conventional.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yes, you know it's funny, I don't have to go back
and look, but I'm thinking hadto be half of the last 10 years.
For Thanksgiving there's beensome sort of massive recall
Lettuce chives.
You know it's been like thisevery year almost, it seems.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yes, and there's actually some research that's
been done on that, and in thespring and the fall, e coli
tends to spread worse.
We don't know why, though, yet,but the virulence of spring and
fall production tends tocoincide with production of
(19:48):
agricultural crops like fruitsand vegetables, and here we find
ourselves right at Thanksgivingand right at Christmas.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
So talk about the difference between the USDA and
the FDA.
Who's responsible for what?
How come these things arehappening, and it feels like we
know there's oversight, butwhere is it?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Very good question there.
Well, the United States has alot of oversight.
First of all, the USDAcertifies organics, but the FDA
actually has what we call thelegal purview for food safety.
So that's under the Food SafetyModernization Act that was
enacted January, the 4th of 2011, under the Obama administration
, and it's finally come into itsfull and complete understanding
(20:31):
where we have to be incompliance in the industry.
So what that essentially meansis that the organic standards
that are written, whether youare an organic grower or a
handler, is part of athird-party certification
program.
It has legal standards, butwhen we're talking about food
safety, food safety is under adifferent regulatory division.
(20:55):
The FDA and both divisions worktogether in a program called
the Center for Food Safety andApplied Nutrition, cfsan, but
they do not regulate together.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, I mean, there's a lot of information here and
we're going to try to pack a lotinto this episode, but I know
that this is going to.
This will be like a walk andtalk mini series, if you will.
So what is it?
So, all right, it's, it's still.
It's still a recall, and sothere's a different in terms of
you know the definitions ofrecall versus outbreak and the
(21:35):
implications that those have onpublic health.
So what is that?
One person, one death, equalsrecall, but two deaths, you know
, equal outbreak.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
That's right, it's a legal definition, and so, as we
stand right now, there's beenonly one death, an elderly
individual, but there has been39 total illnesses, and of those
, 16 have been hospitalized, andone of those was the death.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So if I'm going to editorialize this a little bit,
right, I don't want anyonegetting sick and I don't want
anyone, certainly you know,losing life.
For the millions of people whoare eating carrots and for the
however many millions of poundsof carrots that are out there,
that seems pretty small,considering, you know.
(22:25):
Again, not saying it's a goodthing, but at the end of the day
, I don't know, these are scarywords.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
There are.
What you have to realize is thatGrimway Farms actually
voluntarily chose to recall this, rather than the FDA forcing
its hand at it, and so what theyhave chosen to do is, more than
likely, widen the breadth ofwhat could be implicated and
what is not.
(22:59):
That they had as tested positive, and they've made that
statement that they had in theirpossession.
However, what we do know is thatthe FDA does have positive
confirmation from 26 people outof 27 that they have been able
to interview.
That's, 96% of peopleinterviewed say that they have
(23:23):
eaten fresh carrots that wereorganic baby carrots within the
last week before they got sick,and that is probably one of the
biggest newsmakers in foodsafety in the produce realm that
we've seen is we are gettingmuch better at understanding and
reporting and detection, and,as I was talking to our chef
(23:47):
earlier about this, when youcast the net wide and you go
looking for trouble, so to speak, you're more apt to find it.
So, as far as the United Statesis concerned, we really have a
great food supply that is safeand it's essential to national
security.
But what we also have tounderstand is we have empowered
(24:11):
our regulatory agencies to makesure that we have an active
detection network so that we canrespond back to those needs and
we can keep people safe.
But what we need to understandis that with this particular
recall, we're not just talkingabout things that are labeled
Grimway Farms and GF.
We're talking about things thatare 18 different retailers are
(24:36):
involved in this.
We're talking about over 30brand names are included in this
and there's at least 18 states.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So you have organic foods and with organic foods you
have a change, many changes tohow you execute farming, the
tactics, the processes, whatever.
Is there risks associated withbuying and consuming organic
(25:07):
foods?
And before you answer that, Iyou know, I've been in the
produce.
I was in the produce industryfor 20 plus years and you know
if, if it's from the unitedstates and it's stamped organic,
I tend to go with that.
I am skeptical, I've always beenskeptical about organics coming
(25:31):
from outside of the country,and that isn't any disrespect to
anyone in particular, anycountries or whatever it's just
I know that our organicstandards are pretty high trees
or whatever it's just I knowthat our organic standards are
pretty high.
But I also know that when you,when you're farming, if you're,
if you're used to getting, youknow, let's just say it's never
a hundred percent.
But if you're used to getting ahundred percent yield and now
(25:53):
you're doing organics and andyou're only getting 20% yield,
well, that stinks.
Number one, it's more expensive.
But also, now you're you'refighting more pests.
You can't use the same sort ofchemical-based products.
Everything changes.
But how does that make it let'squote-unquote maybe more risky
or more dangerous to consume?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Well, let me just go ahead and say that anytime you
consume any foods, you're takinga risk, whether it's fresh or
in that fresh realm, if it isorganic or it's conventional.
We have to realize that what weput into our mouth can be risky
, but we have to understand whatrisks are inherent and
(26:36):
unfortunately, science says thatorganics tend to be involved in
more pronounced, largeroutbreaks and recalls.
That's just the numbers.
The next thing is is that theorganic standards demand that
only organically approvedfertilizers and pesticides be
(26:58):
used.
So that means that we have morenatural and that means
biofertilizers and bio-derivedfertilizers.
And for those of you who maynot be following me, I'm talking
about poop, poop from some formor fashion, dried poop, wet
(27:19):
poop that have to be enacted,that if that type of poop
fertilizer or biofertilizer isused, that we can safely plant
into that ground.
Or if someone is organicallygrowing in aquaponic situations,
how maybe that fish meal thatthey are using when it can be
applied and when it can't beapplied?
(27:40):
There's also pesticides that Ijust want to state again.
They're used, they're justorganically approved or
organically derived.
And what does that mean?
That just means that they'renatural and a standards board
that the United StatesDepartment of Agriculture has
formulated between a bunch ofacademics, a lot of researchers,
(28:03):
people in the industry.
I actually know a couple ofpeople who serve on this board
that they look at and theyreview and they make sure that
these standards help protectconsumers and also protect what
they consider to be organicstandards.
But pesticides are used andunfortunately they tend to be
used two to three times moreoften than conventional
(28:26):
production.
Now I will say that with fulldisclosure.
I am a conventional producer,but I am a very cautious
conventional producer On theside.
You know, I pay for my farminghabit with consulting and, with
that being said, I don't makedecisions about our farm with my
husband without looking at whatis the best to use.
(28:48):
I use both conventional andorganic products on my operation
because the number one reasonis it's best for the environment
at that time.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I feel like you just heard a lot of people's feelings
.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I unfortunately don't get paid to say nice things.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes.
So I mean, there's a lot ofbutthurt people out there right
now.
Whoever just heard that youknow you just destroyed their
whole you know paradigm.
All right, so then, what is thedifference between the
regulatory systems here in theUnited States versus you know
other countries?
You know why is there?
(29:28):
Why would there potentially besome sort of disparity in
quality?
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Well, one of the main reasons is because we have
local and state governments inthe United States that are
actively involved in making surethat farmers in their area are
following both local and statelaws, as well as federal laws.
Agriculture, some county thatthey actively work to make sure
that, through visual observationand inspection, that we are
(30:08):
being checked.
One of the main things toreally understand is that
foreign product less than 2% ofit is actively inspected and
fewer than that is sampled whenit comes across our borders or
is flown into our airports andour ports.
So when we're looking at theactive amount of produce that's
(30:28):
coming through those ways, weactually have a really
incredible surveillance programthat's going on, not to say that
it doesn't need quite a lot ofoversight and that there needs
to be some revamping.
Right now, for instance, thereis a complete reorganization of
the FDA going on.
It started October the 1st andwhat we may see with this
(30:49):
particular recall that's beengoing on, as well as the
McDonald's onion recall.
That's right, I didn't evenhear about that.
Yeah, the McDonald's onionrecall is happening with Taylor
Farms right now and that's thereason why people didn't have a
quarter pounder available tocome through for over two weeks,
and I don't know about you, butagain highly processed product
(31:11):
that wasn't organic, productthat was conventional I mean,
yes, I'm hurt right now.
I mean, I didn't even, I'm hurtby that should I have called you
and said don't go through't gothrough the McDonald's
drive-thru and get a McDonald's.
So I'm on the road a lot.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Listen, I eat very.
I eat a lot of good, healthystuff at home.
Okay, I mean, that's the truth.
Wifey cooks, my mother-in-lawcooks, everybody cooks really
healthy, so I'm great.
But I'm on the road a lot and Ijust don to pack a lunch or you
know, sit down, have a nice sitdown, you know lunch or
something.
So I mean I had a drive throughand because, so just for
(31:52):
reference, when you're drivingand eating at the same time, the
cleanest experience isMcDonald's.
Everything it's all neatlypackaged, you can take a bite,
you order cheeseburgers andyou're good to go, Like you, you
can eat it.
It's not going to drip all overyour shirt, pants the whole
nine yards.
So there's a process for that.
There's, there is.
I have a process for eatingwhile driving and mickey d's is
(32:15):
my go-to.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Okay it's because they have the best rewards app
for that I don't even.
I don't use the app.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
I don't care about the app, I don't need, I don't
points.
I feel terrible that I eat thisstuff.
To begin with I don't need, Idon't need to be rewarded for it
, but I do consume it and it iswhat it is.
So that kind of hurt me alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
And it's actively going on.
And what I can tell you isTaylor Farms can't point to the
grower right now.
I'm actively checking thisevery single day because my firm
actually represents some oniongrowers and one of the things
that we know in the produceindustry is we all buy from each
(32:55):
other.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I, I, I listen, I've sold I couldn't put a number, a
dollar amount on on the amountof Taylor farms products in my
tenure in produce.
Okay, if there is such a hugeoutfit and by and large they do
a great job, I will say that oneone, one side of the country
does better than the other sideof the country in terms of what
(33:18):
you know their deliverables.
But hey, you know I'm not goingto get into that.
They, they all, do a great joband I'm not picking sides and
I'm not pointing fingers.
But damn, taylor farms, they've, they've had it rough the last
couple of years, man, likethey've been getting hit
constantly.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Fires everything.
They're one of the largestentities, just like Grimway
Farms and, fun fact, you knowthose are both family-owned
operations that have a longtenure.
But we have seen them and theirfamilies make active purchases
of other farms and processingplants and they have grown.
(33:51):
Hard to control that Don't hatethe player hate the game, but
the game keeps changing andthat's one of the things.
As we think we know enoughabout microflora, okay, Bacteria
, viruses and pathogens andparasites.
They keep changing.
You know, Darwin told us thatsurvival of the fittest.
Well, we're changing ourpractices, but what's outpacing
(34:15):
that is how pathogens are ableto infiltrate into our bodies.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Are we supposed to trust organics now?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
So here's what I would say you have to trust what
you understand to be research,truth.
Okay, and that is kind of adeep subject, you need to know
where your food's coming from.
So shame on you that you didn'tknow that Taylor Farms was
producing those micro-dicedonions.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I know there's like three companies that own
everything.
You know what I mean.
It's all related, it's allcrossed over, paths are crossing
everywhere.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I don't know where McDonald's diced onions are
coming from, but I eat them andthey're delicious.
I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But what you need to know is that everything that
you're putting this goes back towhat I said everything that you
put into your mouth has a risk.
Okay, mouth has a risk.
Okay, so we can't finger pointat the fresh produce or the
fresh product necessarily alwaysbeing the thing that's going to
make us sick.
It's just the fact that becausewe don't tend to cook it as
(35:25):
much means we don't have a killstep.
Okay, many times, if you'llthink about your chicken that
you're eating on your soup, yourhealthy plate, most days, 50%
of chicken breasts come withactive salmonella on it.
Do you even think about that?
Or do you just say, well, I'mgoing to cook it.
Well, the unfortunate thing is,you didn't cook that onion
(35:48):
because it wouldn't give you thecrispness of the flavor.
When they were looking at thatwith the focus groups Again,
when they're reformulating allof the flavor.
When they were looking at thatwith the focus groups again,
when they're reformulating allof the different recipes well,
you don't want mushy onions onthere.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
I mean, I guess we're all gamblers, right?
Yeah you gotta know when tohold them, when to fold them,
you know I would just say thatwe're decently running with an
unknown risk.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Some people blindly and those of us who eat, breathe
and sleep and wake up at twoo'clock in the morning and are
checking social media for ourclients to make sure they're not
actively involved now in arecall or an outbreak.
We're making a little moreeducated guesses.
But I still am consuming freshfruits and vegetables every
(36:36):
single day.
I just understand the risk alittle bit better than the
layman.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
So, in light of the recent food safety challenges
that are out there right now,what advice are you going to
give the consumer?
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Number one know where your food comes from.
Number two try to consume localfoods.
That means that it is going tocome with microflora that
identifies with what's alreadyin your gut, so it's less likely
fun fact to make you sick.
The next thing is is that it'sgoing to get to you fresher, so
if it did have something bad onit, it's less likely to be as
(37:12):
toxic.
The next thing is if you've gotto consume produce for a
particular event, especiallythat has come from food service
and catering and it's been outon a buffet, you just want to
look at items that have theability to have, say, a
vinaigrette if you're doing asalad, because if you serve
(37:33):
something with a vinaigrette,you're doing a salad, because if
you serve something with avinaigrette, it has acidity and
it can actually take a bacterialload down.
So if you're making a choice ona salad buffet, choose a
vinaigrette over that ranchdressing and that kind of hurts
me in the heart because you knowI'm a deep South gal and I
believe that ranch dressing camefrom Jesus Christ, but quality
(37:54):
ranch dressing, let me say thereAmen to that, but that's one of
the main things.
The other thing is and I'm a bitof a hater, okay, and for those
of you that now are like, oh,I'm about to shut this off I'm
also going to say I don't eatcantaloupe.
Cantaloupe is so risky.
(38:14):
I make my husband eat itoutside.
He chooses to eat it in thegarage.
I don't let it come in my house.
It has so many risks.
And let me just tell you thatwhen we have to test it in the
laboratory, we have to cook it,and cooked cantaloupe is similar
.
When I smell it, youimmediately can identify what a
(38:34):
dead rat smells like.
You never forget it.
Cooked cantaloupe is that to me.
So if I see a melon bowl, ofmixed melons and it has
cantaloupe in it, I don't eat it.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
That's crazy talk.
Well, let me say it like thiswhen they're in season, you know
, and they're from, you know,domestic, in season, local, I
love them.
The bricks is hot, they'resweet and delicious, they're
fantastic.
I I suppose maybe are youreferring to those little
(39:06):
beauties are you talking about,like?
Speaker 2 (39:08):
generalizations.
They're all netted melons, theyall grow on the the ground.
They have a pH that makes itquite conducive for bacterial
growth and rarely is acantaloupe consumed all at once.
So what happens is you slicethrough it with your
(39:28):
questionable knife on yourquestionable cutting board and
then you put it, maybe maybe ina bag, maybe okay, or maybe you
wrap it with your saran wrap andstick it back in to grow
bacteria.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Don't smile at me after you say something like
that.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
That's well.
I'll just remind you of thepsychological principle that if
I'm crazy, then so is everybodyelse, since you're establishing
the norm to yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Look, I, I think I'm winning in all of this because
you know, is that like a Charlie?
Sheen winning no, my gosh, no,no man, tiger blood, yeah, I
don't think so.
Charlie Sheen, right, that waswhat you're talking about, so
think so.
Transition, right, I was gonnatalk about.
So, yeah, I mean no, but I alot of vegetables get cooked in
my house and I avoid them all.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
I'm really into the proteins and the good proteins,
so there, I don't really thinkthat there's necessarily a bad
protein, even if it comes with alittle bit of fat.
Now I will say, for those ofyou that are like writing notes
down now, because now I'm enemyof the state for organics, I
will say that there is onepositive that I found in some of
(40:41):
my research.
You know, because I tried to beprepared for today's podcast,
that organic proteins have beenshown to actually have leaner
fat content than conventionalproteins, and that's necessarily
because organic proteins, mostof the time, they are consuming
(41:05):
grasses rather than feeds thatcontain lots of corn and weed
and other things.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's just like game.
It's just like deer and boarand stuff like that.
It's very lean.
All of that bison, all thatstuff is very lean simply
because of what they're eating.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yes, and I will say for a plug, with Kurt's lamb
chop today from Peninsular FoodService.
One thing that I discoveredbecause I had questions as I was
smelling the savoriness thatwas emanating from the kitchen
is that Colorado lamb, which thelamb chop is actually is a
(41:46):
leaner protein than theAustralian lamb and it's
actually better for theenvironment.
So I read that and I thoughtokay, that's great.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Well, I mean, I'll tell you what, in terms of
Peninsula, I mean, they hookedup today Creekstone Farm, the
beef part, Creekstone the ribeyeoh my God, Everything was so
delicious Like melt in yourmouth.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
It was an honor to hold the light for you as you
videoed him and you.
Let me smell that for free.
I'm serious.
For those of you listening tothis?
He could sell tickets to thesmells that are coming.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
I would purchase, I would buy, I'm a buyer, I'm in,
I'm a customer.
Baby, you know what I'm saying?
All right, why don't?
How do people find you?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
How do they find me?
Well, find me on Instagram, gota new business called Cover
your Assets.
I'm still the ag safety lady.
I'm just into covering moreassets these days and they can
also find me on Facebook,linkedin and, as a couple of my
customers say, just point thebat signal towards the sky.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Right, but that I show up.
No, okay, okay, I thought thatwas drum beats, it was, it could
have been All right.
So listen, today was reallyawesome, john, you know we we
did a lot today.
You were nervous about thiswhole thing.
You're like, how are we goingto pull this all off?
I said because we're bad asses.
That's why, okay, you know.
(43:19):
Thanks again, peninsula for thegrub.
It was awesome.
Kurt, you did a terrific jobtoday.
Tasted delicious, looks great.
The photos are awesome.
Kylie, you're like the mostprofessional person I know.
I just want to put that outthere.
All right, are you coming?
Speaker 2 (43:35):
back soon.
You're going to do thisAbsolutely Anytime you ask me to
come.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
All right, beautiful.
Thank you kindly.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
We are out Sorry.
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