Church Money Matters: A little rant

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, welcome to today's episode of
Walk With Me.
I am your host, jj.
It's so good to have each andevery one of you here, all of
you who listen and respond andsend me emails.
I love each and every one ofyou, not just because you do
that, but there are so manypodcasts out there and you guys

(00:21):
took a moment to listen to thisone.
God led you here and God led meto you, so I love you and
appreciate each and every one ofyou.
Thank you all, thank you, thankyou, thank you.
Thank you for the encouragement, thank you for the I'm going to
say thank you for the vitriol,but sometimes you get vitriol.
That's just the way theInternet is.

(00:41):
But I still love each and everyone of you.
If you have any comments orquestions and we're going to
deal with the situation todaythat some of you have gotten at
me about so if you have aquestion or comment or want me
to talk about something, justemail me at walkwithmebiblestudy

(01:04):
at gmail walkwithmebiblestudyat gmailcom.
Of course, and I will.
Generally, if it's one or twopeople, I'll try to answer it,
but if it's a complex question,I probably just do an episode on

(01:24):
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So, that being said, oh wait,before we get started, uh, shout

(01:45):
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Thank all, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Um, okay, so, like I said before, we're gonna deal with the

(02:33):
situation that several of youhave brought to my attention.
Um, and I have, I did kind oflook at it and kind of research
it, and before we get started,this is all right.
How do I start this?
Well, first off, this is goingto be more of a rant than a
Bible study, but there will beBible scripture in it.

(02:53):
Okay, and this is not a subjectthat I would probably normally
cover.
There are much bigger podcasts,much better podcasts that cover
this thing, or things like this, like Standard of Truth.
April Chapman does a very goodjob covering stuff like this, or

(03:14):
like shenanigans, like thisinvolving the church, and she
does it from a perspective ofnot trying to denigrate the fact
that we all need church to makeit, trying to denigrate the
fact you, we all need church tomake it.
Um, so I, if, if anything, goover, give her a shout out, um,
but here's the thing.
Uh, so you guys have beenasking me about this warren, not

(03:36):
warren sap.
Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.
This marvin sap thing, allright, and at first I just kind
of ignored it, like marvin sap,who what?
Okay, and um, because gossipingis not really my thing.
Um, but with so much, so manytimes, people were just hey,
what do you think about thismarvin sap thing?
What about this marvin sapthing?

(03:58):
So I, I, somebody sent me alink and of course I don't like
to look at three second linksbecause there's context is
missing, um, so I had to go backand kind of look and find the
longer videos and, um, okay.

(04:19):
So here's the thing um, jj,don't play that, okay, um, I, I
don't.
As a matter of fact, I'm sostrict on stuff like that
because and I'll explain why ina moment I'm so strict on that
that if I'm in a in a churchservice and the preacher starts

(04:39):
asking for seed and and by seedthey mean money I'm walking out.
I'm never coming back.
That's how serious I am aboutit.
And I'm not saying that weshouldn't give.
The Bible says God loves acheerful giver.
But here's the problem when thepreacher starts asking for

(05:00):
money, it's one of threeproblems, okay, a, people are
just putting in a dollar.
B, uh, no one's tithing orpeople, enough people aren't
tithing.
Malachi chapter 3 talks abouttithing.
And there's, there are malachichapter 3 backs up stuff in the

(05:20):
in leviticus and deuteronomywhen it talks about bringing
meat to God's house.
10% of your increase.
Right, we're going to talkabout that.
And number three somebody'sbeing greedy.
So I'm going to work itbackwards, because I was at
first.
I was like why are you sayingthese things?

(05:41):
Because he went in complainingabout it.
It costs $2,000 to get renewed.
And I'm like wait what?
What kind of shenanigansrequires $2,000 for your license
to get renewed?
Okay, you know what?
I'm not familiar with theorganization.
I don't want to be familiarwith the organization.
So, okay, let's rock that out.

(06:04):
But here's the thing, and Itried to look at the big picture
and I tried to um, really, Itry to get people to benefit,
that is out.
But you're not going to turnaround if they lock the doors or
close the doors or let anybodyout until I get $40,000.
That is typically insane.

(06:25):
And there's no, there's no wayI can fix my face to say that no
way, no way, not, especially ifI'm wearing a Rolex and another
gold bracelet, each worth atleast $6,000.
And I'm just saying thatbecause I have a keen eye for

(06:47):
these things.
I don't wear jewelry myself,but I used to, so I kind of know
how these things price out andI may be on the very low side
because I have not yet accountedfor inflation.
Okay, so let's go back now,because the other situation is
you're not preaching tithing inyour church.

(07:08):
Yes, walters, yes Walters, Iknow a thousand times.
Yes, I know, I don't ask foranything because I'm not your
pastor, but you, I, everybody,your pastor, everybody needs to
be tithing 10%.
As a matter of fact, if youread the way God says it, you

(07:36):
bring your 10% and if it's late.
In Leviticus 27 and 30, ittalks about how you're supposed
to bring a tenth of everythingyou earn, which is the increase,
right, but if you're late, likeI was just saying a moment ago,
it's 31.
If you're late, you're supposedto bring an extra fifth, so

(08:01):
that's an extra 20%.
So if you're not preaching thatin the church, then you're
doing yourself a disservice,you're doing your congregation a
disservice, you're doing God adisservice.
You're doing God a disservice.
You're doing, you're just not.
And I get it.
Preaching tithes is a hard thingto do.
It really is.

(08:22):
I understand it's a very hardthing to do, but you have to
tell these things.
And if you're a pastor andyou're not talking to anything,
then I know that, as a matter offact, you cannot be preaching
against it, because not payingyour tithes is a sin and it's

(08:44):
basically stealing from god,from god.
Malachi 3, 3 and 10.
Like I was mentioning earlier,will a man rob god?
Yes, you'll rob god in histithes and offerings.
All right, and some people havea formula for doing that.
I'm not going to do the formulawhatever, but listen, if, if

(09:06):
everybody is paying their tithe,then everything is functioning
correctly.
And if everybody's paying theirtithe and you still having a
forty thousand dollars shortfall, with all the amount of people
you have in there, there'ssomething going on with the
stewardship of that money.
Now, that's just what I.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry if that's not thecase, but that's what it tells

(09:29):
me.
So, um, demanding forty thousanddollars from the congregation,
are we not leaving until we getforty thousand dollars?
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, run,leave, don't look back, leave it
like sodom and gomorrah, don'teven look back, don't turn into
a pillar of salt.
Let's go, step out, run and andhere's the and this kind of

(09:53):
brings me to um, brings me tothe first one, because you know,
I I don't know what it is.
I really don't know what it iswhen, when people just put a
dollar in the plate, and that'sjust that's the thing that bugs
me.
Y'all been putting in the samedollar since y'all was little

(10:15):
kids, and um, and again, I cansay this because none of you
guys are offering me anything.
I can say this this is a rant.
Okay, you guys are putting inthe same dollar, even though the
same dollar today is worth 20cents from when we were putting
it.
When we were putting in adollar, a dollar is worth a lot

(10:37):
more, but now that dollar isworth 20% of the previous, of
the dollar we started offputting in.
We don't go to a restaurant, wedon't go to Corral, the Cracker
Barrel, we don't go to any ofthese places and just give them
a dollar.
We don't even give them adollar tip.
We have all kinds of tippingschedules 10%, 15%, 20% and

(11:04):
that's just beating our fleshthat will die.
How much more so should we begiving when we're actually
getting our spirits fed?
Now, if your spirit's notgetting fed, then you probably
need to go to a differentrestaurant, so to speak, and
that's just how my rant is onthat restaurant, so to speak,

(11:27):
and that's just how my rant ison that.
Um, so yeah, this is so muchthat right there told me so much
about what was going on.
And then, like I said, it'skind of hard for you to demand
that much money when you gotthat much money on.
And, like I said, there aremuch better podcasts to go in
depth in that, and I know thatthe gospel music industry is not

(11:50):
what it used to be, withstreaming and all of that.
I get it, and I know thatthere's some gospel artists that
have turned into pastors.
But I don't mess with thembecause you can tell that
they're in bad doctor and youcan kind of well, let me just
put it like this the spirit willtell you.

(12:11):
The spirit will tell you, uh,when they're in bad doctor.
But and this is a big tell, abig tell, a big tell like no
other you go out back and yourcar is worth more than every

(12:33):
house on the block that isneither here nor there.
Hold on a second.
I'm not saying that God can'tbless you.
I'm not saying that God can'tbless you.
I'm not saying that if you're apastor, that you don't have
nice things.
That's fine.
You can work for your nicething, you can.
I know pastors who are livingon a retirement that they've

(12:57):
worked at a job for 30 yearswhile they were pastoring.
I, if I end up being able to dothat, I hope I can do that kind
of thing.
But here's the thing your jobis not to fleece the
congregation.
The congregation is not yourpiggy bank.

(13:18):
That time goes to the churchand therefore from the church to
the edification and building ofthe kingdom of God.
Yes, you should get paid out ofit.
I'm not going to say you're notsupposed to get paid out of it
because you're supposed to beable to live.
Remember that was the purpose ofthe tithe.
The purpose of the tithe, backin, when it was first instituted

(13:43):
, was when it came out of Egypt.
Levi, the tribe of Levi, didnot have an inheritance, so they
had no way of tilling land andgetting cattle and stuff like
that.
They were supposed to bedevoted directly to the ministry
.
Okay, look it up the book ofLevi, leviticus.

(14:06):
It tells you the tribe of Leviwas not supposed to do any work
except the ministry of God,maintaining the tabernacle,
maintaining the spiritualcondition of the state of Israel
or the nation of Israel, thechildren of Israel, israelites,
however you want to put that,the children of Israel,

(14:29):
israelites, however you want toput that.
So therefore, god did not wantthem to have to have the
additional stress of working ajob or working the field or
running herds and stuff likethat.
That's what that 10% was for.
From every other tribe,everyone else in every other
tribe was supposed to pay 10% tokeep that tribe alive, keep the

(14:50):
tabernacle going.
Yes, tithing is important.
Tithing is mandatory.
God is not slack towards that.
I have seen people who paidtheir tithes and they got
blessed with God and blessedwith God and then didn't pay
their tithes and those blessingswent away.

(15:13):
I can tell you from personalexperience that it happened.
So, yes, tithing is importantand if your church is paying the
tithe, your congregation ispaying the tithe.
You shouldn't have this kind oflike sudden shortfall.
A church of that size, you havesecretaries, you have business

(15:36):
managers, you have other peoplethat are running the
infrastructure of the church andthat should be keeping you from
getting these sudden whammies.
Like $2,000 reinstatement fee,I can't even imagine what that

(15:56):
would be like and I can'timagine having to deal with that
.
Or you need $40,000.
And I'm telling you guys, I'mtelling you walkers, I kind of
toned out, I kind of buzzed outor grayed out after he said
$2,000 reinstatement fee orrenewal fee, I didn't even get

(16:21):
trying to figure out what heneeded the other $38,000 for
that was irrelevant to me atthat point because the church
should have been paying that andthe church would have been able
to pay that if the tithing waswhere it needed to be, the
tithing and offering was whereit needed to be if he was the
pastor or an assistant pastor.
The church, that's what thechurch is supposed to be doing,

(16:43):
the organization of the churchis supposed to be doing, and I'm
not'm not passing any judgment.
So I don't want you to think oh, jc's over there judging, hold
on.
First off, judgment begins atthe house of the Lord, and if
the righteous of skin be saved,where should the sinner and
ungodly appear?
So we got to start with us.
That being said, I don'tthere's again, I don't know all

(17:08):
the facts, I can't really make ajudgment, but I'm telling you
that this is where I would lookIf I were to make a judgment
what's going on with thefinances?
What's going on?
Who's keeping track of who'spaying tithes and who's putting
in offerings?
Because one thing I really dolike about the church we go to

(17:32):
is that we keep track of yourtithes and then, at the end of
the year, they get your printoutand that you can write it off
on your taxes.
It's been a godsend every year,otherwise we'd be owing taxes.
So I'm telling you here's thething If you are in that church,
oh, and I'm going to talk aboutsomething else too.

(17:53):
If you're in that church mepersonally I would have gone.
I would have been gone.
But let me tell you what wetalked about earlier.
I just briefed on it.
When people use the term seed inreferring to money, my friend,
that is not seed.
My brothers and sisters, thatis not seed.

(18:15):
Stop blaspheming God, becausethe seed is the word of God.
When Jesus spoke of seeds andsowers and fruit, it was not
about money, the seed, remember.
He was talking about the sower,where the sower went forth to

(18:36):
sow and some of the seed fell onrocky ground and some of it
fell in shallow earth and someof it fell in good earth.
That was not money, becausethat seed, that word of God that
went out there and got in thesepeople's hearts, because the
ground was the heart symbolizingother people's hearts that was

(18:56):
supposed to, uh, that wassupposed to be things that
developed fruit.
It developed a, uh, a morerobust way of living for God,
and it also made sure that italso explained to us what would
happen if our hearts ever gotout of that good state.

(19:17):
In fact, I'll read it Matthew13, 3-9.
The same, and he spoke manythings unto them in parables,
saying Behold, a sower wentforth to sow and when he sowed,

(19:38):
some seeds fell by the waysideand the fowls came and devoured
them up.
Now, wait a minute, hold on.
If this is money, why would youthrow the money on the wayside?
And what could be devoured ofthe money?
Well, now are you talking aboutpeople skimming off the top,
exporting money, embezzlingmoney.

(19:58):
That doesn't make sense.
But let's continue.
Some fell upon stony placeswhere they had not much earth,
and forthwith they sprung upbecause they had no deepness of
earth, and when the sun is up,they were scorched because they
had no root.
They withered away.
Now you tell me, how does moneywither away?

(20:19):
I mean it's there.
How then could it?
Oh, you mean you put it in badinvestments.
Okay, that's not quite the samething, because now we're
talking about with it away andleft it, died off.
But what's happening here isthe word is the seed, and if it

(20:41):
doesn't get down in your heart,the first trial you come across,
you just sort of fall out, youbackflop, back, block.
But let's continue.
Some fell among thorns and thethorns sprung up and choked them
.
Tell me, how can money bechoked?
It can't, it just can't.
If you put dollar, if you put adollar in a in a basket and

(21:05):
left there, it won't won't doanything but it won't be choked.
But other fell into good groundand bought forth fruit, some a
hundredfold, some sixtyfold,some thirtyfold.
He who have ears to hear, lethim hear.
So that seed fell upon goodground.
In other words, it went intothe hearts of some good people

(21:28):
and it went into the good heartsof good people and it went into
the hearts of good people andthe person used it and
fertilized it with their walkwith God and that began to bring
forth fruit in their lives andthey began to bring other people
to God.
That's what that parable means.
It has got nothing to do withyou putting a $20 bill in the

(21:48):
office or me demanding youputting a $25 fee.
That thing aggravates me andthis is about as close to a
brand as you'll get me to have.
There is no reason we should bedoing that.
That is shenanigans.
That is a fundamentalmisunderstanding of the word
seed in the Bible and weshouldn't be doing that.
That is a fundamentalmisunderstanding of the word

(22:09):
seed in the Bible and weshouldn't be doing that.
That is some Gentile paganstuff, that is absolutely some
Gentile pagan stuff.
And if you're in a place thatdoes that, I'm telling you guys
right now walkers, find you someother place to go, find you
some other place to go, find yousomewhere that actually teaches
the word of god the way it'ssupposed to be taught, rightly

(22:32):
dividing the word of truth.
And again, I'm not.
I'm not your pastor.
I mean, if you're anywhereclose, I invite you to come out
every sunday.
Well, I'm not even the pastorthere yet, so let me just.
But either way, I don don'tcare, you just come out and
listen.
But it is what it is.

(22:52):
We should not.
We should not be misleadingentire congregations because
we're trying to engage in filthylucre.
That's what makes it filthy.
God gave us money.
We don't have the money is notevil.
It is we who are evil when westart chasing that money, when

(23:12):
we start misusing that money,when that money becomes a status
symbol.
Being a pastor is not abouthaving a status.
Being a pastor is a servant, aservant status.
We are, we serve thecongregation and we serve god
and we serve our family and weserve everybody.

(23:34):
We come in contact.
You know why?
Because jesus was also aservant.
Jesus did not walk aroundtalking about how he was a great
grand poet and give me somemoney.
No, as a matter of thearguments that he had about
money, he was saying the poorare always going to be poor.
Render unto Caesar that whichis Caesar's.

(23:56):
You didn't hear Jesus passaround his robe talking about
give me a $20 seed or give me anephah seed no, he didn't.
So why are we doing that today?
That's shenanigans.
That is the devil that'sdeviled and crept into the
church and now we just let himsit here and run our church.

(24:17):
But I have ranted enough.
I have ranted enough.
I have ranted enough Again,there are much better podcasts
that handle things like that.
Jamal Bryant, they're muchbetter.
Joel Olsen they're much betterpodcasts to handle that kind of

(24:38):
thing.
And, like I said, the onepodcast I prefer is called
Standard of Truth, and we mayhave doctrinal differences that
is what it is but I feel listento her, I would refer you to her
and she will definitely getinto some of the social issues

(25:01):
that are plaguing some of thechurch.
I know this is not a plug forher or that she asked me to do.
It's just.
I came across that podcast oneday a couple years ago and I've
been listening almost all thetime since.
So listen, walkers, thispodcast is purely about Bible

(25:24):
scripture, but thank you forallowing me to have this little
rant about that situation askingme about it.
But in the future we're goingto go with that other option.
But listen, the answer to all ofour questions when it comes to
how church should be runeverything from top to bottom,
left to right, front to backit's going to be in the Bible.

(25:47):
If it ain't in the Bible, thenit shouldn't be in the church
anyway.
Okay, don't come to me askingand I've had some people asking
me about a skirt with flitsDon't ask me that.
First of all, that's thequestion you should be asking
your pastor.
Second of all, what does theBible say about it?

(26:08):
Okay, I love each and every oneof you.
Second of all, what does theBible say about you?
I love each and every one ofyou.
Thank you all so much.
Thank you all for yourquestions.
If you have any other questions, send them to
walkwithmebiblestudy at gmail.
If you come across somebodytoday, tell them you love them.
That's probably the onlypositive thing they'll hear
today.
If you've seen the way thisworld is so negative.

(26:30):
Be positive in somebody else'slife.
God bless you See y'all on thenext one.