September 21, 2024 • 38 mins
What happens when your world is turned upside down at 18? Jenny Becknell knows firsthand the whirlwind of emotions that come with an unexpected pregnancy during college and the life-altering decision of adoption. Join us as Jenny, a birth mother, shares her intimate story, beginning with her shock and initial excitement upon discovering she was pregnant while balancing school and family expectation. She opens up about navigating her complex family dynamics, where her sister's simultaneous pregnancy and an abusive home added immense pressure to her situation.
Jenny’s candid storytelling takes us through the emotional labyrinth of facing familial and societal pressures. Listen as she reads from her journal entries, revealing the profound internal conflict she faced. Was placing her baby for adoption truly in her child's best interest, or was it a desperate attempt to satisfy her parents? Jenny reflects on the cultural and religious influences that shaped her decisions, and how these themes echo in her interactions with the birth father and the broader adoption community.
Throughout the episode, we explore the lasting impact of adoption on Jenny's life, including the ongoing pain and what-ifs that she continues to grapple with. She speaks on the importance of creating safe spaces for birth mothers and adoptees to share their stories and the critical need for empathy and understanding. Despite the heartache, Jenny highlights the fulfilling life she's built with her husband and other children, offering a message of hope and resilience to our listeners. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand the deep emotional layers of adoption.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yes, and even in my little journal that I had left
for her, I did talk about himand I talked about his family
and what I knew and just tellingher, like anything you ever
want to know, like I'm going tobe here to tell you anything,
and even in that I look back atthese words and I have to keep
remembering I was only 18 when Iwas writing this.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, lisa Anne.
We are an experience-based showfocused on sharing the journey
of adoption, identity lifesearch and reunion.
Today kickstarts our fifthseason, and when starting this
adventure, I never dreamed oftaking things to this level.
The original intention was tocreate a release valve for
(00:59):
myself during the trials andtribulations of biological
reunion, share my ownexperiences and show at least
one other adoptee in this greatbig world that they were not
alone To date.
Here is what I personally havelearned Our numbers are many.
We yearn for support andunderstanding.
We desire to better ourselves.
We also desire connections Forsome.
(01:20):
We strive to aid others throughgroups, books, blogs and
podcasts.
Those moments of reflectionprovided a perfect segue into
our upcoming three-part seriesCreating Connection,
understanding and EmpathyBetween Birth Mothers and
Adoptees, and so I'm extremelyhonored to have with us today
(01:42):
our guest, jenny Becknell.
Good afternoon, welcome to theshow.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Hi, lisa Ann, it's so good to be here and what a
great introduction.
And really exactly what it isthat drew me to you was
listening to your podcast andjust seeing that you did have
all of those components in yourstory and being the same exact
things.
That I, as a birth mother,really think is super important
is having that connection andunderstanding and care about
just being able to listen towhat everybody has to say in
(02:17):
their experience.
So, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
That is a great place for us to start.
I mentioned in the introductionthat is a great place for us to
start.
I mentioned in the introductionthis is a three-part series,
three different stages of thisprocess and your experience
Pregnancy period, thepost-adoption period and then
post what I'm going to call kindof a reunion period the next 18
(02:42):
after and I'm excited about ityou and I have spent I don't
know if you realize this almostsix months preparing for these
three episodes.
It has been a little bit of anemotional roller coaster for
both of us for different reasons, not specifically because of
what we're trying to craft heretoday, but a lot of this stuff
(03:04):
can get heavy very quickly andopen up old wounds, and I know
that that's important for us toacknowledge today as well.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yes, absolutely.
In fact, I was just having aconversation with my husband
before we started to talk todayand I was trying to explain to
him why it was really importantfor me to have our house just
empty, like I just didn't wantanyone else to be here, because
it is really really hard to gointo some of these places and,
(03:36):
being the person and having thepersonality that I do have, I do
always kind of worry and wonderwhat everyone around me is
thinking and how they're feelingabout what it is that I'm
saying, and so sometimes I findmyself, even today, being more
concerned about what someoneelse might be feeling about what
I'm saying that I am aboutactually saying what I need to
(03:58):
say.
So, yeah, like it causes me alot of anxiety if I don't feel
like I have the space to just beable to go deep into those
places that are really reallyhard to go to, but I also think
that there's a lot of importancein doing that for everybody.
So I agree and I appreciate youfor, honestly, you've really,
(04:29):
really pushed me along andencouraged me to do this and I
greatly appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So thank you.
Well, again, you are more thanwelcome, but I feel the true
benefit of this conversation andI am honored deeply.
Let's go ahead and kind of getthere.
Many things you said are goingto resonate with adoptees, birth
parents and adoptee parents.
We share a lot of the sameconcerns and emotions, but we're
(04:53):
many times I don't knowhesitant to talk about them
because we're not sure howthey're going to hit.
So I would like it if you wouldstart out telling us a bit
about you prior to discoveringyou were pregnant.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, so I was 18 years old, I was away at school
for the first time away atcollege for the first time and I
had gone to school on a soccerscholarship and I had gone to a
school 18, I'm sorry an hour anda half away from where I grew
(05:32):
up.
And I grew up in a family ofseven.
I was the second oldest ofseven children and at the time
that I had found out that I waspregnant, my 17-year-old sister,
who was a junior in high school, had found out six months prior
that she was also pregnant.
So I had an older sister thatwas 20.
(05:53):
I was 18.
My younger sister was 17.
And then another sister thatwas 15, another sister that was
13.
And then my youngest.
Two brothers were eight yearsold and six years old and,
honestly, up until reallypreparing for this, I had not
even thought about the ages ofmy siblings.
(06:14):
But knowing that I was going tobe coming on here today and
talking about pregnancy and thedecision and where my life
really was at that time, it mademe kind of look back at some of
those things.
And I had started a journal formy daughter when I was pregnant
.
I realized you know ourmemories and our brains kind of
(06:35):
work and compartmentalize things.
But I was also off after 30,almost 32 years, 33 years.
I was even off on the time thatI got pregnant.
So I typed in my daughter's duedate the other day and found
out that I didn't get pregnantuntil the end of January.
And all this time I'm thinkingI had gotten pregnant in
(06:55):
December.
So it's interesting, but anywayso.
But I had started a notebook.
So my timing that my brain hasbeen telling me all these years
has been off by a couple ofmonths.
And so I found out.
So back up a little bit, mysister, I told you, was pregnant
.
She was six months ahead of me.
Her daughter was due.
(07:17):
She was born at the end ofMarch.
My sister's daughter was bornat the end of March.
I got pregnant at the end ofJanuary, not really sure exactly
what it was that I found out,but I remember I was in my dorm
room and I don't know why Idecided to take a pregnancy test
.
I don't remember the reason forit.
I don't know what alerted me toam I pregnant?
(07:38):
I don't remember any of that.
But I remember taking thepregnancy test, that I was alone
when I did that and I've saideven before like that doesn't
sound like me to be alone, butthat's what my memory says was
that I was alone.
I don't know that that's a fact.
But I do remember seeing thepregnancy test and my initial
(07:58):
response was excitement, becauseI love children.
I've always loved children.
G grew up with a huge family,so babies were always just super
exciting to me.
I was always I always babysat,you know, for people's children,
as I was growing up and alwaysloved playing with my little
brothers and my sisters, and soI just was always just really in
(08:22):
love with children.
So my initial response was tobe excited.
And then, immediately afterremembering and realizing that
my 16-year-old sister, who hadjust turned 17, was pregnant and
getting ready to have a baby,and knowing that my parents had
been the entire time she waspregnant, telling her you cannot
(08:42):
bring this baby home, youcannot have this child break.
We're not going to raise thischild in our home.
You cannot do this.
You need to place your childfor adoption and we're going to
send you to a counselor foradoption.
And so a lot of the things thatI was new, immediately upon
finding out I was pregnant, werealready there from my sister,
(09:06):
having been through the samething just a few months earlier.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You had a good baseline right then of
understanding around not onlythe social expectations of women
who are not married andpregnant, but also a good
indicator of your family'sprinciples and expectations.
That had to have been very hardto rationale between the two
(09:33):
things that I've just heard youspeak of large, loving family,
your family, your immediatefamily.
You had several children andthen having a sister in the same
position as you going throughit and you're kind of.
You have a front seat view ofwhat it's going to be like even
(09:54):
for you.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yes, yes, and also another part of the story that I
do think is important and partof what was always on my mind
was that my dad was a veryabusive man.
So growing up, my parentsobviously were together, but my
dad had grown up in foster careback and forth and was adopted,
(10:20):
as I think he was 12 orsomewhere around that age, by
his aunt, so he always knew hismom as well, but we kind of had
two grandmothers and twograndfathers.
We, growing up, we knew both ofthem.
So I think that was alsosomething in my mind too.
I did not there was not reallya huge desire of my own even to
(10:42):
have my daughter being raised inthe home of my parents, because
I knew that wasn't a greatenvironment to be living in and
so I didn't want her to havethat experience like I did
either.
That was definitely somethingthat was on my mind, and I had
also graduated from high schoolwith a girl who had a baby and
(11:04):
placed her baby for adoption,and it was an open adoption and
that was the first I'd reallyheard of that, and so that was
something that I think was kindof in my mind at the time too
was like I could do what wasbest for my child, which is what
that's.
All I had heard, was this waswhat was best for my child
(11:25):
instead of what was best for me.
Like it was very much like youare extremely selfish to put
yourself before your child andthe best thing to do is to put
your child first, and that is togive your child a two parent
family that can raise themtogether in the same home.
Loving parents, you know, thathave money that can provide
(11:47):
experiences and things that youare not able to give to your
child.
It was just kind of just in mybrain, like that's just kind of
what I knew, and so I believedat that point I was always kind
of the rebel of the family, Iguess, so to say so.
I was always kind of looked atas like the black sheep, the one
that's always kind of the rebelof the family, I guess, so to
say so.
I was always kind of looked atas like the black sheep, the one
(12:08):
that's always kind of doing thewrong thing and I think
subconsciously, not reallyrealizing it at the time, but I
feel like, in a way, growing upand not ever being able to
please my parents, that and itseems so messed up now because
I'm you know, this is the lifeof a person right that I'm
making a decision for, but atthe time you're not thinking
(12:32):
about that and I'm just thinking, oh, like this is such a great
opportunity to please my parents, like I can, for the first time
ever, maybe, do something thatthey're going to be like wow,
she actually does care aboutothers instead of just herself,
kind of thing.
You know, I think that maybethere was some of that that
played a part in it as well.
(12:52):
And just I just rememberthinking I need to sacrifice my
own self to make sure that thischild has everything that he or
she deserves.
And so if I have to go throughpain, if I have to go through
hurt, if I have to go throughagony, if I have to go through
whatever it is I have to gothrough, it will be worth it so
(13:15):
long as my child has everythingshe or he deserves I didn't know
if I was having a boy or a girlas long as my child has
everything that she or he wantsand can you know, that's what
really matters, it's not me Ifshe can live a happy life, she
can live with people who loveand adore her, and it can be an
open adoption.
That's just more people to loveher.
(13:36):
So how could that be bad?
So that's kind of where it camefrom on in my thought process,
I think.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So in that time period you had a lot of inputs,
you had a lot of information athand, you had some new and
emerging topics, open adoption.
How were you starting, or whatprocess during your pregnancy
Were you starting to kind of getto a decision, and what kind of
(14:05):
pressures do you feel you wereunder, aside from what you
already knew?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm just going to be honest and say I don't really
know how to answer that question.
I can tell you that I kept ajournal for my daughter.
I had started it in April.
She was born in October.
My daughter, I had started it inApril, she was born in October
and I have eight or nine journalentries where I wrote to her
and I can tell you that I wasreferring to myself as mom in
(14:37):
all of these entries, in theones that I had left for her in
April, that I didn't leaveanother one for her until July.
I'm still referring to her asher mom and her best friend.
At the end, End of July it waslove you, mom.
And then it slowly wentactually to the next one, which
(14:58):
was in September, when I'mtelling her that I had met her
adopted parents for the firsttime.
At the end of that letter Ireferred to myself as your birth
mother.
When I look at that now like itbreaks my heart because I
wasn't.
I was still her mother and I'mstill her mom today and she's
(15:19):
almost 32.
Yeah, so I, you know, once Imet them in person, I had
started referring to myself evendifferently and continued even
on as I was reading through thisbecause I continued writing
this journal to her even aftershe was born and I read it today
and I think it's probably thefirst time that I've read it
(15:40):
since I wrote it One time backin 2010, I transferred the
handwritten notebook into atyped letter but even at that
time I was typing words.
I was not reading, I was notinto what I was writing to her.
But I read through it today,knowing I was going to be on
here, and it's trulyheartbreaking to read it and to
(16:05):
talk to her and telling herabout her family and telling her
about who I am and who herbirth father is and who all of
my brothers and sisters are, andtelling her that I lost myself
when I made this decision forher and that I don't know that
I'll ever find myself again.
(16:25):
And anyway, it's just it's.
It's very sad to read parts ofit.
Parts of it it's really showsmy immaturity and my age,
talking to her even about whoI'm dating and you know, just
like really silly things, as Ias I read through it.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
But yeah, yeah, take a minute.
It's okay.
It's a lot to digest.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So yeah, so I think that that was kind of, I guess,
the process I was going through.
I just remember it was like arepeated it was almost just on
repeat Like you need to dowhat's best for your child.
It doesn't, you don't matter,it's about your child, it's
about your child, what's bestfor your child, and that truly,
truly is all I wanted was justto do what was best for her.
(17:14):
And I wish I would have knownabout the primal wound.
I wish I would have researchedmore.
You know, even in my life now,I'm a huge researcher.
I want to know about everythingbefore I move forward with
anything, and never connectedthat it came from making this
decision and not doing what Ishould have done to research all
(17:36):
of the information, trulybelieving that I was making the
best decision for my child sothat she could have the greatest
life possible, and then, all ofthese years later, to realize
that that's not what happened isjust devastating.
It's something you can't.
There's nothing that I can doto change it, nothing.
(17:59):
Yeah, I don't did that answeryour question responses of the
situation.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It is hard to talk about this.
It's also hard to listen to itas an adoptee, but there are
some really key items that Ithink are precious and I would
like to highlight them.
To be a teenager, to have anumber of extenuating
circumstances during a timeperiod in a major life decision
like this, and to have enoughwisdom and strength to write
(18:36):
things down, is pretty unique,and I think that is a key
component to maybe how adoptionis today, or could be even
enhanced today, because I am afirm believer it's never going
away as much as we would maybewant it to.
(18:57):
I think that it's going to besomething that exists long past
my life cycle.
So my point of advocacy aroundthat is the more we can share,
the more we can educate and themore we can create connection
and bond.
Yeah, I hope so, jenny.
Thank you for sharing some ofthose very intimate moments of
(19:18):
decision making and some of theactivities that you did during
that period of time.
I think it's extremely specialand very unique to have a
journal or even small entries.
Know, small entries over aperiod of time, be it one or 100
, is irrelevant.
Just to have that is veryimportant many times for
(19:41):
adoptees because it creates alittle bit of a connection point
and helps us gravitate towardsour true identity.
Us gravitate towards our trueidentity.
So, while you were speaking ofthat experience and sharing some
of your journal entries andalso criticizing yourself
because you were so young andwhat you were saying, just the
(20:02):
fact that you had the patienceto do that and the forethought
to do that is, in my book, a win.
So, kudos, I believe it wouldbe a good place for us as well
to transition a little bit andkind of talk about how do you
navigate, you know, a pregnancywhere you're that young and
(20:25):
you're clearly in the timeperiod where we're talking about
, people still had expectationof marriage and we weren't as
open around just general topicsof sexual freedom or orientation
, or you don't have to bemarried in order to do these
things.
I don't want to go political,liberal, conservative, but just
(20:50):
a different aspect of life rightMore tolerance, more patience,
and how does that work in thisstory?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I think that for me I know that I grew up Catholic,
so I just grew up knowing likethat's just kind of how things
were.
I didn't really even everchallenge that in any way.
I just knew that every childdeserved to have a mother and a
father, and so that was justkind of always there for me.
And so even when I shared thatwith Anna's father, I, you know,
(21:22):
I called him right away to lethim know when I found out I was
pregnant and you know, and hetoo was happy.
And when I told him like hewasn't the guy that says, oh no,
like we aren't going to do this, he, you know, had this like
plan that you know, he couldwork during the day and I could
go to school at night, or viceversa, like he would talk about
(21:43):
these things.
And there was just I don't knowit's interesting to look at it
now and I'm not sure why, but Ijust always knew it was just
like an inner knowing that thatwas not the way that things were
really going to be.
That, yeah, it sounded reallynice, it sounded really pretty,
but I just knew that's notreally how it was going to be.
(22:05):
And I look back at that now andI think that was really unfair
of me.
I look back at that now and Ithink that was really unfair of
me.
I have since her birth.
Father is in her life and hasbeen in her life since she was
five, kind of moving ahead alittle bit there.
But I have even recentlyapologized to him and said I'm
(22:26):
really sorry that I did not giveus an opportunity.
I didn't give us that chance.
Give us an opportunity.
I didn't give us that chanceand he's just he's still to this
day just a really great guy andhe will not allow me to hold
any of these decisions on my own.
I've I've apologized to him evensince then for not giving him
the opportunity to parent her,and he said you didn't make that
(22:50):
decision on your own, we madeit together, which is actually,
in my opinion, not true at all,because the entire time I was
pregnant with her, I spoke tohim twice Once I went back home,
which I went back from collegeat the beginning of, at the end
of April, and I only spoke tohim a couple of times for the
(23:12):
rest of my pregnancy.
Anyway, it is interesting, buthe's been really great and
supportive over the years to meeven.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You know that's very interesting.
Let's do a little reflectionaround that topic.
I think that that's somethingthat we gloss over when we're
talking about these situationsis the importance of the
decision with the biologicalfather as well.
I'm comfortable in making astatement that says we put so
(23:44):
much pressure, 80% of thatdecision, on the female, and we
just overlook that fathercomponent, and not in a
statement of criticism, right,but you just emulated that
through the conversation,through your dialogue that said,
(24:06):
you talked to him twice and Iwonder if you, in reflection,
think that was because ofsociety or because of your
upbringing, or it just was theway it was.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
It was because he didn't call me.
I mean, I was at home, I wasliving with my parents and I was
kind of the one going throughit.
I wasn't reaching out to him.
I don't think my parents wouldhave really accepted that.
That was back when there waslong distance call too, by the
way, so you couldn't just callsomebody and talk to him.
(24:40):
So he lived a few hours an hourand 45 minutes for me.
So it would have been a longdistance phone call that I would
have had to have gottenpermission for, that would have
had to have gotten permissionfor that, and otherwise I
probably would have called himevery day.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I probably would have called him a lot.
But it's so interesting aroundthe conversation of making a
decision and this is alife-changing decision and the
barrier was you weren't married,you guys weren't in this really
strong relationship, you werelong distance something, and
(25:15):
there was a barrier of time andperception of money and
therefore it just kind of pushesforward.
That same kind of old schoolnarrative of the decision lies
solely with the one carrying thebaby and, interesting, he
didn't call you, you didn't callhim.
(25:37):
That's how it goes sometimesand we just don't have enough in
our emotional intelligence banksometimes at that age to know
that it's that life changing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yes, and even in my little journal that I had left
for her, I did talk about himand I talked about his family
and what I knew and just tellingher, like anything you ever
want to know, like I'm going tobe here to tell you anything.
And even in that I look back atthese words and I have to keep
remembering like I was only 18when I was writing this.
(26:13):
But even during all of that, Iwould not say anything negative
about him to her at all, eventhough there were times where I
was thinking like I'm so mad athim for not calling me or, you
know, I really would love forhim to have been there when she
was born, and you know just allthe little fantasy things in my
head, because I really did adorehim and cared about him a lot.
(26:36):
But I just wanted him to chooseme, not just me, because I was
having his child, and I thoughtthat was the only way we would
really be able to sustain anysort of relationship, really be
able to just to sustain like anysort of relationship.
And although when I look backat it now, I think that us being
(26:57):
together just for her wouldhave been good enough and who
knows what could have happenedfrom there.
But I didn't even give thatopportunity to him, or even
think about that, and untilyears and years later, where I
just thought I mean not that Iwould undo my husband and my
children that I've had with himor anything like that, but who
(27:19):
knows, like who knows.
But even in this journal I sayto her I dream all the time
about what it would be like forjust me, you and your dad, to be
together, like what that wouldbe like.
So anyway and honestly that youknow it's something that still,
it's still with me.
It has not ever gone away, youknow, ever.
(27:39):
Another thing that I wasthinking as you were talking is
something else that has come upfor me over the years.
In reflection back to this time, I think if there was someone
going through this decision andlooking back, like you can only
see what's going on in your liferight in front of you, and you
(28:00):
can sometimes only focus ontoday or next week or what might
happen then, and it's too hardfor us to see what the future is
going to look like.
And so if I'm able to somehowdo that for somebody, I would
really just encourage anyone totry as hard as you can to find
(28:22):
someone who will support you toraise your child.
Keep looking, keep asking, keepsearching, look on the internet
.
Find a birth mother thatdoesn't ever want someone to
have to go through that againand put their child through that
.
But what I say now is mydaughter deserved for me to
(28:44):
fight harder for her.
She deserved that.
I should have done that.
I am a very strong person.
I have a strong personality.
I have a strong will and Isometimes get stuck in being so
angry at that 18 year old girlfor not doing it.
(29:04):
Then, like of all the times inmy life where I needed to fight
hard for the right thing, that'swhen it was, and she deserved
that.
She deserved a birth motherthat would have fought tooth and
nail to do whatever I could toraise her.
The only thing that I can say isI didn't realize that.
I thought I was doing that forher.
(29:24):
I thought I was doing what wasbest for her and it just wasn't.
It wasn't what was best for herand it wasn't what was best for
me, but I always knew.
I always knew it wasn't bestfor me.
There was never a doubt in mymind from the moment of go that
it wasn't best for me.
I knew that we are really shownto to always sacrifice
(29:46):
ourselves for others, and Iguess maybe some people do it
and some people don't I don'tknow, but I definitely she
deserved for me to have donethat and, frankly, I deserved to
have done that for myself and Ididn't.
So I don't know if that makessense what I'm trying to say, if
I'm saying that correctly.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, no, it does.
I think that, in the context ofthis conversation, for you in
hindsight which is the onlyplace you can be right now you
know that you would have likedto have had a different approach
to the decision-making process.
I believe you and I will agreeon this.
That perspective, though, iscoming from a place of growth
(30:29):
and reflection and age, andseeing this from day one of
acknowledging you're pregnant towhere you are today.
Where you are today, itwouldn't have been that way for
you on day birth, which we weregoing to get to here in one of
(30:50):
our upcoming segments, but whatI'm finding very heartfelt in
this conversation is the themeof.
It's just not an easy decisionand the ramifications are all
around difficult, and to havebirth mothers willing to talk
(31:14):
about that pain and thelong-term effects of those
decisions is so important to me,because it helps me understand
some of where I come from andthe effects and the long-term
items, and the reflection andworking through the pains and
(31:37):
the joys as well.
None of us can turn back theclock.
That just isn't going to happen,but at least we can talk about
it and give another person anopportunity to think about the
experience differently.
It really is part of changingthe narrative around adoption,
where the thing people focus onis how wonderful it is You're
(32:00):
doing somebody a favor, this isso special, you're so chosen, I
mean all those things right.
There can be beauty in there,but there's also hardship, and I
feel really strongly about that.
Well, we're getting close tothe end of what we wanted to
cover today in this firstsegment, and it's been hard on
(32:22):
you.
I can tell our listeners can'tsee you, but I can see you, and
I want to thank you for puttingyourself out there and being
emotional and vulnerable andtruthful and really getting to
the core of what we really wantto get out to the people around
these types of topics and createsome bridges between these two
(32:45):
dynamics the birth parent andthe adoptee.
I do want to say, though youmade a point in all of this you
also have had a life and youhave a husband, and you guys
have been married 31 years.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I believe It'll be 29 years this year.
Oh, I was so close.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
My daughter's 31.
Yeah, and you have otherchildren and you are very proud
of who you are and what you'vedone over the time period.
This is a portion of your life,but it's not the sum total of
your life.
Yes, very true.
Well, with that, I want to askyou one more question, and then
(33:24):
we'll wrap up for today andwe're going to preface for
everybody what the next segmentwill be.
As we're closing, what do youwant the listeners to consider
between now and our next session?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I think, really just allowing ourselves to hear each
other.
I think it's just really reallyimportant that people be kind
to each other, be respectful toeach other and keep space for
all of us having differentexperiences, which comes from,
(33:56):
whatever our background is, andjust trying to like sometimes
step outside of what it is thatwe might be looking at and doing
in our lives and realizing thatthere's another way, and it's
not always one or the other likesometimes it's both.
And you know, I made a journalentry a month after my daughter
(34:17):
was born saying I would do thisall over again.
That to me is crazy that I eversaid that we have to allow
ourselves to be wrong sometimesand to have love for that, and
not just with ourselves but witheach other.
And I oftentimes will see somuch anger and bitterness and
(34:42):
mean times.
We'll see so much anger andbitterness and mean, nasty,
shaming things that people sayto each other, from adoptee to
adoptive, parent to birth parent, and sometimes I'm just like,
wow, have we not all beenthrough enough?
Have we not all in every singleaspect?
(35:02):
We're all doing the best we cantoday and like we need to look
at each other that way and giveeach other the space to just I
don't know like, just like, like, let's be respectful and kind
of like we've already all beenthrough enough.
So people aren't just sayingwhat they're saying for the hell
of it.
They're saying it becausethat's where they are at that
(35:25):
moment.
But if we do not slow ourselvesdown and open up our own minds
to hear and care about otherpeople, we're never going to
move forward.
We're just going to stay stuckin this back forth stuff.
So I think it's just reallyimportant to be true, to be
honest and to be reflective andunderstand that someone else's
(35:49):
story is not going to be thesame as yours, but to know that
they were probably doing thebest that they could either way.
So I think that's the first.
That's kind of what came to mymind when you said that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, I do like the hold space aspect of that.
I can't stand in everyone'sshoes, I can only stand in my
own and I don't know everyone'shurt or heal, and that's the
truth and I don't try to.
I have enough of my own to dealwith.
So to try to cast my netfurther out would really be
(36:26):
detrimental to next 18 years.
And you were on the cusp of adifferent style of adopting,
(36:49):
which was open adoption.
So you have an experiencearound that that you would like
to share out and I think isimportant, because it can go
wonderful, it can go sideways,it could be steady, eddie, and
there's always a lot to learn inthat.
I know.
From my own perspective, I'veoften wondered what would have
(37:10):
it been like to be part of anopen adoption versus a closed
adoption.
I probably would have had a lotmore access to who I am and the
pieces of my puzzle that havebeen missing and are still
missing.
I do still have life gap.
I keep thinking I'm going to gosolve for that, and here we are
in fifth season and I justcan't get motivated enough to go
(37:30):
solve for that.
Maybe I'm too scared, I don'tknow.
But in open adoption you don'thave life gap, and so there's a
small benefit maybe to that.
And then there's potentiallywe're going to dive into.
Maybe it's not a benefit toknow.
Maybe when you get tooingrained and too involved it
has other unintendedconsequences.
(37:52):
So I'm looking forward to ournext discussion for
Unlanguishment first, 18 years.
Thank you, lisa.
All right, well, thank you forbeing with us today, jenny, and
again, listeners.
We're going to wrap up fortoday and we'll see you on the
other side.
Talk to you again soon.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode of Wandering
Tree Podcast.
(38:12):
Please rate, review and sharethis out so we can experience
the lived adoptee journeytogether.
Want to be a guest on our show?
Check us out atwanderingtreeadopteecom.
Yes, and even in my little journal that I had left
for her, I did talk about himand I talked about his family
and what I knew and just tellingher, like anything you ever
want to know, like I'm going tobe here to tell you anything,
and even in that I look back atthese words and I have to keep
remembering I was only 18 when Iwas writing this.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast.
I am your host, lisa Anne.
We are an experience-based showfocused on sharing the journey
of adoption, identity lifesearch and reunion.
Today kickstarts our fifthseason, and when starting this
adventure, I never dreamed oftaking things to this level.
The original intention was tocreate a release valve for
(00:59):
myself during the trials andtribulations of biological
reunion, share my ownexperiences and show at least
one other adoptee in this greatbig world that they were not
alone To date.
Here is what I personally havelearned Our numbers are many.
We yearn for support andunderstanding.
We desire to better ourselves.
We also desire connections Forsome.
(01:20):
We strive to aid others throughgroups, books, blogs and
podcasts.
Those moments of reflectionprovided a perfect segue into
our upcoming three-part seriesCreating Connection,
understanding and EmpathyBetween Birth Mothers and
Adoptees, and so I'm extremelyhonored to have with us today
(01:42):
our guest, jenny Becknell.
Good afternoon, welcome to theshow.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Hi, lisa Ann, it's so good to be here and what a
great introduction.
And really exactly what it isthat drew me to you was
listening to your podcast andjust seeing that you did have
all of those components in yourstory and being the same exact
things.
That I, as a birth mother,really think is super important
is having that connection andunderstanding and care about
just being able to listen towhat everybody has to say in
(02:17):
their experience.
So, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
That is a great place for us to start.
I mentioned in the introductionthat is a great place for us to
start.
I mentioned in the introductionthis is a three-part series,
three different stages of thisprocess and your experience
Pregnancy period, thepost-adoption period and then
post what I'm going to call kindof a reunion period the next 18
(02:42):
after and I'm excited about ityou and I have spent I don't
know if you realize this almostsix months preparing for these
three episodes.
It has been a little bit of anemotional roller coaster for
both of us for different reasons, not specifically because of
what we're trying to craft heretoday, but a lot of this stuff
(03:04):
can get heavy very quickly andopen up old wounds, and I know
that that's important for us toacknowledge today as well.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yes, absolutely.
In fact, I was just having aconversation with my husband
before we started to talk todayand I was trying to explain to
him why it was really importantfor me to have our house just
empty, like I just didn't wantanyone else to be here, because
it is really really hard to gointo some of these places and,
(03:36):
being the person and having thepersonality that I do have, I do
always kind of worry and wonderwhat everyone around me is
thinking and how they're feelingabout what it is that I'm
saying, and so sometimes I findmyself, even today, being more
concerned about what someoneelse might be feeling about what
I'm saying that I am aboutactually saying what I need to
(03:58):
say.
So, yeah, like it causes me alot of anxiety if I don't feel
like I have the space to just beable to go deep into those
places that are really reallyhard to go to, but I also think
that there's a lot of importancein doing that for everybody.
So I agree and I appreciate youfor, honestly, you've really,
(04:29):
really pushed me along andencouraged me to do this and I
greatly appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So thank you.
Well, again, you are more thanwelcome, but I feel the true
benefit of this conversation andI am honored deeply.
Let's go ahead and kind of getthere.
Many things you said are goingto resonate with adoptees, birth
parents and adoptee parents.
We share a lot of the sameconcerns and emotions, but we're
(04:53):
many times I don't knowhesitant to talk about them
because we're not sure howthey're going to hit.
So I would like it if you wouldstart out telling us a bit
about you prior to discoveringyou were pregnant.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, so I was 18 years old, I was away at school
for the first time away atcollege for the first time and I
had gone to school on a soccerscholarship and I had gone to a
school 18, I'm sorry an hour anda half away from where I grew
(05:32):
up.
And I grew up in a family ofseven.
I was the second oldest ofseven children and at the time
that I had found out that I waspregnant, my 17-year-old sister,
who was a junior in high school, had found out six months prior
that she was also pregnant.
So I had an older sister thatwas 20.
(05:53):
I was 18.
My younger sister was 17.
And then another sister thatwas 15, another sister that was
13.
And then my youngest.
Two brothers were eight yearsold and six years old and,
honestly, up until reallypreparing for this, I had not
even thought about the ages ofmy siblings.
(06:14):
But knowing that I was going tobe coming on here today and
talking about pregnancy and thedecision and where my life
really was at that time, it mademe kind of look back at some of
those things.
And I had started a journal formy daughter when I was pregnant
.
I realized you know ourmemories and our brains kind of
(06:35):
work and compartmentalize things.
But I was also off after 30,almost 32 years, 33 years.
I was even off on the time thatI got pregnant.
So I typed in my daughter's duedate the other day and found
out that I didn't get pregnantuntil the end of January.
And all this time I'm thinkingI had gotten pregnant in
(06:55):
December.
So it's interesting, but anywayso.
But I had started a notebook.
So my timing that my brain hasbeen telling me all these years
has been off by a couple ofmonths.
And so I found out.
So back up a little bit, mysister, I told you, was pregnant
.
She was six months ahead of me.
Her daughter was due.
(07:17):
She was born at the end ofMarch.
My sister's daughter was bornat the end of March.
I got pregnant at the end ofJanuary, not really sure exactly
what it was that I found out,but I remember I was in my dorm
room and I don't know why Idecided to take a pregnancy test
.
I don't remember the reason forit.
I don't know what alerted me toam I pregnant?
(07:38):
I don't remember any of that.
But I remember taking thepregnancy test, that I was alone
when I did that and I've saideven before like that doesn't
sound like me to be alone, butthat's what my memory says was
that I was alone.
I don't know that that's a fact.
But I do remember seeing thepregnancy test and my initial
(07:58):
response was excitement, becauseI love children.
I've always loved children.
G grew up with a huge family,so babies were always just super
exciting to me.
I was always I always babysat,you know, for people's children,
as I was growing up and alwaysloved playing with my little
brothers and my sisters, and soI just was always just really in
(08:22):
love with children.
So my initial response was tobe excited.
And then, immediately afterremembering and realizing that
my 16-year-old sister, who hadjust turned 17, was pregnant and
getting ready to have a baby,and knowing that my parents had
been the entire time she waspregnant, telling her you cannot
(08:42):
bring this baby home, youcannot have this child break.
We're not going to raise thischild in our home.
You cannot do this.
You need to place your childfor adoption and we're going to
send you to a counselor foradoption.
And so a lot of the things thatI was new, immediately upon
finding out I was pregnant, werealready there from my sister,
(09:06):
having been through the samething just a few months earlier.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You had a good baseline right then of
understanding around not onlythe social expectations of women
who are not married andpregnant, but also a good
indicator of your family'sprinciples and expectations.
That had to have been very hardto rationale between the two
(09:33):
things that I've just heard youspeak of large, loving family,
your family, your immediatefamily.
You had several children andthen having a sister in the same
position as you going throughit and you're kind of.
You have a front seat view ofwhat it's going to be like even
(09:54):
for you.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yes, yes, and also another part of the story that I
do think is important and partof what was always on my mind
was that my dad was a veryabusive man.
So growing up, my parentsobviously were together, but my
dad had grown up in foster careback and forth and was adopted,
(10:20):
as I think he was 12 orsomewhere around that age, by
his aunt, so he always knew hismom as well, but we kind of had
two grandmothers and twograndfathers.
We, growing up, we knew both ofthem.
So I think that was alsosomething in my mind too.
I did not there was not reallya huge desire of my own even to
(10:42):
have my daughter being raised inthe home of my parents, because
I knew that wasn't a greatenvironment to be living in and
so I didn't want her to havethat experience like I did
either.
That was definitely somethingthat was on my mind, and I had
also graduated from high schoolwith a girl who had a baby and
(11:04):
placed her baby for adoption,and it was an open adoption and
that was the first I'd reallyheard of that, and so that was
something that I think was kindof in my mind at the time too
was like I could do what wasbest for my child, which is what
that's.
All I had heard, was this waswhat was best for my child
(11:25):
instead of what was best for me.
Like it was very much like youare extremely selfish to put
yourself before your child andthe best thing to do is to put
your child first, and that is togive your child a two parent
family that can raise themtogether in the same home.
Loving parents, you know, thathave money that can provide
(11:47):
experiences and things that youare not able to give to your
child.
It was just kind of just in mybrain, like that's just kind of
what I knew, and so I believedat that point I was always kind
of the rebel of the family, Iguess, so to say so.
I was always kind of looked atas like the black sheep, the one
that's always kind of the rebelof the family, I guess, so to
say so.
I was always kind of looked atas like the black sheep, the one
(12:08):
that's always kind of doing thewrong thing and I think
subconsciously, not reallyrealizing it at the time, but I
feel like, in a way, growing upand not ever being able to
please my parents, that and itseems so messed up now because
I'm you know, this is the lifeof a person right that I'm
making a decision for, but atthe time you're not thinking
(12:32):
about that and I'm just thinking, oh, like this is such a great
opportunity to please my parents, like I can, for the first time
ever, maybe, do something thatthey're going to be like wow,
she actually does care aboutothers instead of just herself,
kind of thing.
You know, I think that maybethere was some of that that
played a part in it as well.
(12:52):
And just I just rememberthinking I need to sacrifice my
own self to make sure that thischild has everything that he or
she deserves.
And so if I have to go throughpain, if I have to go through
hurt, if I have to go throughagony, if I have to go through
whatever it is I have to gothrough, it will be worth it so
(13:15):
long as my child has everythingshe or he deserves I didn't know
if I was having a boy or a girlas long as my child has
everything that she or he wantsand can you know, that's what
really matters, it's not me Ifshe can live a happy life, she
can live with people who loveand adore her, and it can be an
open adoption.
That's just more people to loveher.
(13:36):
So how could that be bad?
So that's kind of where it camefrom on in my thought process,
I think.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
So in that time period you had a lot of inputs,
you had a lot of information athand, you had some new and
emerging topics, open adoption.
How were you starting, or whatprocess during your pregnancy
Were you starting to kind of getto a decision, and what kind of
(14:05):
pressures do you feel you wereunder, aside from what you
already knew?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm just going to be honest and say I don't really
know how to answer that question.
I can tell you that I kept ajournal for my daughter.
I had started it in April.
She was born in October.
My daughter, I had started it inApril, she was born in October
and I have eight or nine journalentries where I wrote to her
and I can tell you that I wasreferring to myself as mom in
(14:37):
all of these entries, in theones that I had left for her in
April, that I didn't leaveanother one for her until July.
I'm still referring to her asher mom and her best friend.
At the end, End of July it waslove you, mom.
And then it slowly wentactually to the next one, which
(14:58):
was in September, when I'mtelling her that I had met her
adopted parents for the firsttime.
At the end of that letter Ireferred to myself as your birth
mother.
When I look at that now like itbreaks my heart because I
wasn't.
I was still her mother and I'mstill her mom today and she's
(15:19):
almost 32.
Yeah, so I, you know, once Imet them in person, I had
started referring to myself evendifferently and continued even
on as I was reading through thisbecause I continued writing
this journal to her even aftershe was born and I read it today
and I think it's probably thefirst time that I've read it
(15:40):
since I wrote it One time backin 2010, I transferred the
handwritten notebook into atyped letter but even at that
time I was typing words.
I was not reading, I was notinto what I was writing to her.
But I read through it today,knowing I was going to be on
here, and it's trulyheartbreaking to read it and to
(16:05):
talk to her and telling herabout her family and telling her
about who I am and who herbirth father is and who all of
my brothers and sisters are, andtelling her that I lost myself
when I made this decision forher and that I don't know that
I'll ever find myself again.
(16:25):
And anyway, it's just it's.
It's very sad to read parts ofit.
Parts of it it's really showsmy immaturity and my age,
talking to her even about whoI'm dating and you know, just
like really silly things, as Ias I read through it.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
But yeah, yeah, take a minute.
It's okay.
It's a lot to digest.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So yeah, so I think that that was kind of, I guess,
the process I was going through.
I just remember it was like arepeated it was almost just on
repeat Like you need to dowhat's best for your child.
It doesn't, you don't matter,it's about your child, it's
about your child, what's bestfor your child, and that truly,
truly is all I wanted was justto do what was best for her.
(17:14):
And I wish I would have knownabout the primal wound.
I wish I would have researchedmore.
You know, even in my life now,I'm a huge researcher.
I want to know about everythingbefore I move forward with
anything, and never connectedthat it came from making this
decision and not doing what Ishould have done to research all
(17:36):
of the information, trulybelieving that I was making the
best decision for my child sothat she could have the greatest
life possible, and then, all ofthese years later, to realize
that that's not what happened isjust devastating.
It's something you can't.
There's nothing that I can doto change it, nothing.
(17:59):
Yeah, I don't did that answeryour question responses of the
situation.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It is hard to talk about this.
It's also hard to listen to itas an adoptee, but there are
some really key items that Ithink are precious and I would
like to highlight them.
To be a teenager, to have anumber of extenuating
circumstances during a timeperiod in a major life decision
like this, and to have enoughwisdom and strength to write
(18:36):
things down, is pretty unique,and I think that is a key
component to maybe how adoptionis today, or could be even
enhanced today, because I am afirm believer it's never going
away as much as we would maybewant it to.
(18:57):
I think that it's going to besomething that exists long past
my life cycle.
So my point of advocacy aroundthat is the more we can share,
the more we can educate and themore we can create connection
and bond.
Yeah, I hope so, jenny.
Thank you for sharing some ofthose very intimate moments of
(19:18):
decision making and some of theactivities that you did during
that period of time.
I think it's extremely specialand very unique to have a
journal or even small entries.
Know, small entries over aperiod of time, be it one or 100
, is irrelevant.
Just to have that is veryimportant many times for
(19:41):
adoptees because it creates alittle bit of a connection point
and helps us gravitate towardsour true identity.
Us gravitate towards our trueidentity.
So, while you were speaking ofthat experience and sharing some
of your journal entries andalso criticizing yourself
because you were so young andwhat you were saying, just the
(20:02):
fact that you had the patienceto do that and the forethought
to do that is, in my book, a win.
So, kudos, I believe it wouldbe a good place for us as well
to transition a little bit andkind of talk about how do you
navigate, you know, a pregnancywhere you're that young and
(20:25):
you're clearly in the timeperiod where we're talking about
, people still had expectationof marriage and we weren't as
open around just general topicsof sexual freedom or orientation
, or you don't have to bemarried in order to do these
things.
I don't want to go political,liberal, conservative, but just
(20:50):
a different aspect of life rightMore tolerance, more patience,
and how does that work in thisstory?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
I think that for me I know that I grew up Catholic,
so I just grew up knowing likethat's just kind of how things
were.
I didn't really even everchallenge that in any way.
I just knew that every childdeserved to have a mother and a
father, and so that was justkind of always there for me.
And so even when I shared thatwith Anna's father, I, you know,
(21:22):
I called him right away to lethim know when I found out I was
pregnant and you know, and hetoo was happy.
And when I told him like hewasn't the guy that says, oh no,
like we aren't going to do this, he, you know, had this like
plan that you know, he couldwork during the day and I could
go to school at night, or viceversa, like he would talk about
(21:43):
these things.
And there was just I don't knowit's interesting to look at it
now and I'm not sure why, but Ijust always knew it was just
like an inner knowing that thatwas not the way that things were
really going to be.
That, yeah, it sounded reallynice, it sounded really pretty,
but I just knew that's notreally how it was going to be.
(22:05):
And I look back at that now andI think that was really unfair
of me.
I look back at that now and Ithink that was really unfair of
me.
I have since her birth.
Father is in her life and hasbeen in her life since she was
five, kind of moving ahead alittle bit there.
But I have even recentlyapologized to him and said I'm
(22:26):
really sorry that I did not giveus an opportunity.
I didn't give us that chance.
Give us an opportunity.
I didn't give us that chanceand he's just he's still to this
day just a really great guy andhe will not allow me to hold
any of these decisions on my own.
I've I've apologized to him evensince then for not giving him
the opportunity to parent her,and he said you didn't make that
(22:50):
decision on your own, we madeit together, which is actually,
in my opinion, not true at all,because the entire time I was
pregnant with her, I spoke tohim twice Once I went back home,
which I went back from collegeat the beginning of, at the end
of April, and I only spoke tohim a couple of times for the
(23:12):
rest of my pregnancy.
Anyway, it is interesting, buthe's been really great and
supportive over the years to meeven.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
You know that's very interesting.
Let's do a little reflectionaround that topic.
I think that that's somethingthat we gloss over when we're
talking about these situationsis the importance of the
decision with the biologicalfather as well.
I'm comfortable in making astatement that says we put so
(23:44):
much pressure, 80% of thatdecision, on the female, and we
just overlook that fathercomponent, and not in a
statement of criticism, right,but you just emulated that
through the conversation,through your dialogue that said,
(24:06):
you talked to him twice and Iwonder if you, in reflection,
think that was because ofsociety or because of your
upbringing, or it just was theway it was.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
It was because he didn't call me.
I mean, I was at home, I wasliving with my parents and I was
kind of the one going throughit.
I wasn't reaching out to him.
I don't think my parents wouldhave really accepted that.
That was back when there waslong distance call too, by the
way, so you couldn't just callsomebody and talk to him.
(24:40):
So he lived a few hours an hourand 45 minutes for me.
So it would have been a longdistance phone call that I would
have had to have gottenpermission for, that would have
had to have gotten permissionfor that, and otherwise I
probably would have called himevery day.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I probably would have called him a lot.
But it's so interesting aroundthe conversation of making a
decision and this is alife-changing decision and the
barrier was you weren't married,you guys weren't in this really
strong relationship, you werelong distance something, and
(25:15):
there was a barrier of time andperception of money and
therefore it just kind of pushesforward.
That same kind of old schoolnarrative of the decision lies
solely with the one carrying thebaby and, interesting, he
didn't call you, you didn't callhim.
(25:37):
That's how it goes sometimesand we just don't have enough in
our emotional intelligence banksometimes at that age to know
that it's that life changing.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yes, and even in my little journal that I had left
for her, I did talk about himand I talked about his family
and what I knew and just tellingher, like anything you ever
want to know, like I'm going tobe here to tell you anything.
And even in that I look back atthese words and I have to keep
remembering like I was only 18when I was writing this.
(26:13):
But even during all of that, Iwould not say anything negative
about him to her at all, eventhough there were times where I
was thinking like I'm so mad athim for not calling me or, you
know, I really would love forhim to have been there when she
was born, and you know just allthe little fantasy things in my
head, because I really did adorehim and cared about him a lot.
(26:36):
But I just wanted him to chooseme, not just me, because I was
having his child, and I thoughtthat was the only way we would
really be able to sustain anysort of relationship, really be
able to just to sustain like anysort of relationship.
And although when I look backat it now, I think that us being
(26:57):
together just for her wouldhave been good enough and who
knows what could have happenedfrom there.
But I didn't even give thatopportunity to him, or even
think about that, and untilyears and years later, where I
just thought I mean not that Iwould undo my husband and my
children that I've had with himor anything like that, but who
(27:19):
knows, like who knows.
But even in this journal I sayto her I dream all the time
about what it would be like forjust me, you and your dad, to be
together, like what that wouldbe like.
So anyway and honestly that youknow it's something that still,
it's still with me.
It has not ever gone away, youknow, ever.
(27:39):
Another thing that I wasthinking as you were talking is
something else that has come upfor me over the years.
In reflection back to this time, I think if there was someone
going through this decision andlooking back, like you can only
see what's going on in your liferight in front of you, and you
(28:00):
can sometimes only focus ontoday or next week or what might
happen then, and it's too hardfor us to see what the future is
going to look like.
And so if I'm able to somehowdo that for somebody, I would
really just encourage anyone totry as hard as you can to find
(28:22):
someone who will support you toraise your child.
Keep looking, keep asking, keepsearching, look on the internet
.
Find a birth mother thatdoesn't ever want someone to
have to go through that againand put their child through that
.
But what I say now is mydaughter deserved for me to
(28:44):
fight harder for her.
She deserved that.
I should have done that.
I am a very strong person.
I have a strong personality.
I have a strong will and Isometimes get stuck in being so
angry at that 18 year old girlfor not doing it.
(29:04):
Then, like of all the times inmy life where I needed to fight
hard for the right thing, that'swhen it was, and she deserved
that.
She deserved a birth motherthat would have fought tooth and
nail to do whatever I could toraise her.
The only thing that I can say isI didn't realize that.
I thought I was doing that forher.
(29:24):
I thought I was doing what wasbest for her and it just wasn't.
It wasn't what was best for herand it wasn't what was best for
me, but I always knew.
I always knew it wasn't bestfor me.
There was never a doubt in mymind from the moment of go that
it wasn't best for me.
I knew that we are really shownto to always sacrifice
(29:46):
ourselves for others, and Iguess maybe some people do it
and some people don't I don'tknow, but I definitely she
deserved for me to have donethat and, frankly, I deserved to
have done that for myself and Ididn't.
So I don't know if that makessense what I'm trying to say, if
I'm saying that correctly.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, no, it does.
I think that, in the context ofthis conversation, for you in
hindsight which is the onlyplace you can be right now you
know that you would have likedto have had a different approach
to the decision-making process.
I believe you and I will agreeon this.
That perspective, though, iscoming from a place of growth
(30:29):
and reflection and age, andseeing this from day one of
acknowledging you're pregnant towhere you are today.
Where you are today, itwouldn't have been that way for
you on day birth, which we weregoing to get to here in one of
(30:50):
our upcoming segments, but whatI'm finding very heartfelt in
this conversation is the themeof.
It's just not an easy decisionand the ramifications are all
around difficult, and to havebirth mothers willing to talk
(31:14):
about that pain and thelong-term effects of those
decisions is so important to me,because it helps me understand
some of where I come from andthe effects and the long-term
items, and the reflection andworking through the pains and
(31:37):
the joys as well.
None of us can turn back theclock.
That just isn't going to happen,but at least we can talk about
it and give another person anopportunity to think about the
experience differently.
It really is part of changingthe narrative around adoption,
where the thing people focus onis how wonderful it is You're
(32:00):
doing somebody a favor, this isso special, you're so chosen, I
mean all those things right.
There can be beauty in there,but there's also hardship, and I
feel really strongly about that.
Well, we're getting close tothe end of what we wanted to
cover today in this firstsegment, and it's been hard on
(32:22):
you.
I can tell our listeners can'tsee you, but I can see you, and
I want to thank you for puttingyourself out there and being
emotional and vulnerable andtruthful and really getting to
the core of what we really wantto get out to the people around
these types of topics and createsome bridges between these two
(32:45):
dynamics the birth parent andthe adoptee.
I do want to say, though youmade a point in all of this you
also have had a life and youhave a husband, and you guys
have been married 31 years.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I believe It'll be 29 years this year.
Oh, I was so close.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
My daughter's 31.
Yeah, and you have otherchildren and you are very proud
of who you are and what you'vedone over the time period.
This is a portion of your life,but it's not the sum total of
your life.
Yes, very true.
Well, with that, I want to askyou one more question, and then
(33:24):
we'll wrap up for today andwe're going to preface for
everybody what the next segmentwill be.
As we're closing, what do youwant the listeners to consider
between now and our next session?
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I think, really just allowing ourselves to hear each
other.
I think it's just really reallyimportant that people be kind
to each other, be respectful toeach other and keep space for
all of us having differentexperiences, which comes from,
(33:56):
whatever our background is, andjust trying to like sometimes
step outside of what it is thatwe might be looking at and doing
in our lives and realizing thatthere's another way, and it's
not always one or the other likesometimes it's both.
And you know, I made a journalentry a month after my daughter
(34:17):
was born saying I would do thisall over again.
That to me is crazy that I eversaid that we have to allow
ourselves to be wrong sometimesand to have love for that, and
not just with ourselves but witheach other.
And I oftentimes will see somuch anger and bitterness and
(34:42):
mean times.
We'll see so much anger andbitterness and mean, nasty,
shaming things that people sayto each other, from adoptee to
adoptive, parent to birth parent, and sometimes I'm just like,
wow, have we not all beenthrough enough?
Have we not all in every singleaspect?
(35:02):
We're all doing the best we cantoday and like we need to look
at each other that way and giveeach other the space to just I
don't know like, just like, like, let's be respectful and kind
of like we've already all beenthrough enough.
So people aren't just sayingwhat they're saying for the hell
of it.
They're saying it becausethat's where they are at that
(35:25):
moment.
But if we do not slow ourselvesdown and open up our own minds
to hear and care about otherpeople, we're never going to
move forward.
We're just going to stay stuckin this back forth stuff.
So I think it's just reallyimportant to be true, to be
honest and to be reflective andunderstand that someone else's
(35:49):
story is not going to be thesame as yours, but to know that
they were probably doing thebest that they could either way.
So I think that's the first.
That's kind of what came to mymind when you said that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, I do like the hold space aspect of that.
I can't stand in everyone'sshoes, I can only stand in my
own and I don't know everyone'shurt or heal, and that's the
truth and I don't try to.
I have enough of my own to dealwith.
So to try to cast my netfurther out would really be
(36:26):
detrimental to next 18 years.
And you were on the cusp of adifferent style of adopting,
(36:49):
which was open adoption.
So you have an experiencearound that that you would like
to share out and I think isimportant, because it can go
wonderful, it can go sideways,it could be steady, eddie, and
there's always a lot to learn inthat.
I know.
From my own perspective, I'veoften wondered what would have
(37:10):
it been like to be part of anopen adoption versus a closed
adoption.
I probably would have had a lotmore access to who I am and the
pieces of my puzzle that havebeen missing and are still
missing.
I do still have life gap.
I keep thinking I'm going to gosolve for that, and here we are
in fifth season and I justcan't get motivated enough to go
(37:30):
solve for that.
Maybe I'm too scared, I don'tknow.
But in open adoption you don'thave life gap, and so there's a
small benefit maybe to that.
And then there's potentiallywe're going to dive into.
Maybe it's not a benefit toknow.
Maybe when you get tooingrained and too involved it
has other unintendedconsequences.
(37:52):
So I'm looking forward to ournext discussion for
Unlanguishment first, 18 years.
Thank you, lisa.
All right, well, thank you forbeing with us today, jenny, and
again, listeners.
We're going to wrap up fortoday and we'll see you on the
other side.
Talk to you again soon.
Thank you for listening totoday's episode of Wandering
Tree Podcast.
(38:12):
Please rate, review and sharethis out so we can experience
the lived adoptee journeytogether.
Want to be a guest on our show?
Check us out atwanderingtreeadopteecom.
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