December 15, 2025 • 37 mins
When it comes to travel, it’s always the people you meet that make the trip. That is especially true in the American South, where the locals are renowned as some of the friendliest and most genuine people in the country.
Today, we’re going to meet three of them who are preserving and conserving the flavours and natural beauty of the South.
- Chef Trevor Stockton is going to take us to the Great Smoky Mountains of Tennessee for a feast of his favourite dishes.
- Peggy Noe Stevens, the world’s first master bourbon taster, is going to take us on a distillery tour through Kentucky with a stop, of course, at America’s most famous horse race.
- Meg Puckett is taking us to the Barrier Islands of North Carolina in search of one of the last remaining herds of wild horses in the States.
From the mountains to the coast, to the bottom of your glass, this is a journey into the heart of the natural beauty, local people and good ‘ol southern food that makes this region so special.
Highlights include:
- Learning how to taste bourbon like an expert, while driving the Kentucky Bourbon Trail.
- Finding out what our local’s three favourite dishes are, and why one of them is served only in petrol stations.
- Discovering why the Kentucky Derby is known as “the most exciting two minutes in sport”.
- Hearing about the history of wild horses in the United States, and why seeing them should be on every wildlife lover’s bucket list.
FIND OUT MORE
Trevor Stockton: rtloge.com, @therestaurantatrtlodge on Instagram
Meg Pucket: carollawildhorses.org, @corollawildhorses on Facebook
Peggy Noe Stevens: peggynoestevens.com, @pegggynoestevens on Instagram and Facebook.
Discover the American South at https://www.wanderlustmagazine.com/inspiration/discover-the-american-south/
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CREDITS
This episode was produced by Armchair Productions, the audio experts for the travel industry. Lyn Hughes and Laura Field introduce the show. Aaron Millar is the interviewer and script editor. Audio production by Charles Tyrie.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:06):
Welcome to the latest series of Wanderlust off
the page.
I'm Lynn Hughes, founding editorof Wanderlust.
SPEAKER_04 (00:14):
And I'm Laura Field, regional editor here at
Wanderlust.
SPEAKER_03 (00:18):
And it's series line already! Good heavens! In past
series, you've travelled with usto places near and far, from
journeying through colourfulQueensland to exploring the
beauty and biodiversity ofColombia.
SPEAKER_04 (00:33):
And Series 9 continues our audio adventures
around the world.
From experiencing the cloudforests of Quito to delving into
the carnival and culturalheritage of Mobile, Alabama.
SPEAKER_03 (00:44):
So stay tuned and prepare to be whisked around the
world.
(01:10):
We certainly will, Laura.
We'll be heading on a journey totake in Kentucky's bourbon
scene, North Carolina's wildhorses and Tennessee's seasonal
produce.
SPEAKER_04 (01:20):
Joining host Aaron Miller today is Peggy No
Stevens, the world's firstfemale master bourbon taster
who's based in Kentucky.
Meg Puckett, Director of HerdManagement for the Corolla Wild
Horses, and Trevor Stockton, achef based in Tennessee's Great
Smoky Mountains region.
Can't wait, let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
So welcome to the show, Chef Trevor Stockton from
the great Smoky Mountains ofTennessee.
Peggy No Stevens, the world'sfirst female masturbon taster
out of Kentucky, and MegPuckett, the Director of Herd
Management at the Corolla WildHorse Fund of North Carolina.
I'm excited to talk about kindof your specialist areas, but I
thought we should start by kindof just getting a more broad
(02:26):
overview of the state.
So let's start with you, Trevor.
The great Smoky Mountains, thatis somewhere that I really want
to go back to.
I felt like I kind of only had aday or so to sort of dip into
it, but talking about naturalbeauty and the outdoors and
outdoor recreation and all thatstuff, before we get to the
food, what a beautiful placethat you live in.
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
It really is.
The Smoky Mountains, when Ifirst moved here, I learned that
the Smoky Mountains have moredifferent species of trees than
the entire continent of Europe,which was astounding.
And it really is uh you go intothose mountains, and I love
going to those mountains andthinking of people that passed
(03:08):
over those mountains to comesettle on the side of the
smokies that I'm on.
And whether it's springtime wheneverything's first coming up,
whether it's fall when obviouslythe colors are beautiful,
whether it's summer when you'retrying to escape the heat and
get up into the mountains, it'sa pretty magical place.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
Yeah, I've been lucky to kind of drive around
Tennessee.
I was actually doing somethingcalled the Tennessee Music
Pathways, which is amazing.
Like when I think when a lot ofpeople think of Tennessee, they
think of the music rightly so.
But there's so much historythere, and you know, it's not
just Nashville and Memphis,they'll obviously go and see
those two places, but there'sjust so much history in music.
(03:45):
You must have a lot of goodtunes to accompany your food.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
I will say the the musical acts that come through
East Tennessee, it's it's prettyastounding.
I was shocked at how many peoplecome through East Tennessee, the
traditional music of the area,but also just people love music
here.
And everywhere you go, everyevent you're at, there's always
great music here.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Yeah, and I you know what I like about your area in
Appalachia is you know, when wetalk about Nashville, what I
think a lot of people don'trealize is when you head out to
East Tennessee, the sort ofroots of that are in those
Appalachian Mountains and theand the kind of bluegrass and
folk music that came out ofthere.
And and when you do drive aroundand see the state, you kind of
get a sense of of all thosedifferent influences coming
(04:27):
together to really to createthat American sound.
Speaking of bluegrass, there'ssome great blue bluegrass down
in North Carolina, isn't there,mate?
SPEAKER_05 (04:34):
Yeah, there is, especially on the western part
of the state.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Yeah, I think Asheville is somewhere that's
been on my hit list for a while.
There's some really fun musiccities there.
But tell me about your region,the outer banks, because that,
you know, aside from the wildhorses, which I want to get into
in a minute, the outer banksthemselves, the sort of barrier
islands, are just a fascinatingecosystem in their own right.
SPEAKER_05 (04:55):
It's a place that's um, you know, just very
deep-rooted in a in a lot ofdifferent culture from food to
music to, you know, just ourhistory.
And then you add into that thenatural elements between the
weather and the tides.
And, you know, when when youlive on a barrier island, you're
never still, you know, the sandis always shifting, things are
always changing.
So it's a very, very dynamicplace.
SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
I think a lot of people won't necessarily be
familiar with the kind ofecology of a barrier island.
Like what is it?
What makes it a barrier island?
SPEAKER_05 (05:26):
So we are we're just a spit of sand, literally.
Um, you know, we're sand thatformed an island right off the
coast.
And so as a barrier island, weare the protection from the
mainland from storms and thingslike that.
And and it's always shifting.
You know, sand is not stable.
And so it's always moving.
The topography is alwaysdifferent.
You have sand dunes in placeswhere there weren't sand dunes,
(05:47):
you know, before the last storm,that kind of thing.
So um, and it's not just allbeach.
We've got just thousands andthousands of acres of marsh, of
coastal maritime forest.
We've got some of the mostpristine marshland and area like
that left on the East Coast.
And so it's habitat for a lot ofdifferent species of plants and
animals that you don't findanywhere else.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Last but not least, Peggy, we're gonna talk about
one of my favorite subjects,bourbon, in just a second.
But tell me about Kentucky as awhole first.
SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
Well, I think what people fall in love with
Kentucky is the natural beauty,you know, the rolling hills of
Kentucky, the seasonal way thatour industry of Kentucky
evolves, you know.
And when I say seasonal,everything from food to horses
to, you know, nature andlandscape, they really
(06:37):
appreciate the different fourseasons because it's a beauty
anywhere you go.
And so you can have anincredible culinary scene
experience.
You can enjoy going to all thedistilleries, which there are
well over 60 distilleriesthroughout the state of
Kentucky.
If you love the equine industry,we have two of the world's
(06:58):
famous racetracks right here inour backyard.
And if you truly just want toenjoy a natural setting, the
parks that we have here, thelakes that we have here is
really awe-inspiring.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
And and speaking of kind of theoutdoor aspect, if you're kind
of wanting to combine some ofthat distillery tours with some
of the outdoor experiences,Mammoth Cave National Park is
kind of bit, I'm a bit of anational park chunkie, and
Mammoth Cave has been on my hitlist for a while.
Is that somewhere you've been?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
I've been, and I've done something called cave
splunking in the past.
Well, though.
And that was in a differentsection of Kentucky in London,
Kentucky, but it sure was fun.
Uh, but Mammoth Cave is anatural wonder.
And anyone who travels to seethe caves, they're really struck
by not only the beauty, but justthe formation and the history
(07:53):
behind it and the geology behindit.
So it's almost like this mothernature meets science feeling
that you get when you travelthrough the caves.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
And uh just to set the scene as well for listeners,
one of the reasons why MammothCave is so amazing is it was
discovered about 200 years ago.
I mean, Native Americans used itfor thousands of years before
that, of course.
But since those 200 years thatit's been explored in the modern
era, they've I think they'veuncovered about 400 miles
underground, but they reckon itcould reach to a thousand miles.
(08:24):
It's the longest cave system inthe world.
So I don't know the level ofyour cave spelunking, but if you
wanted to, you could probablyget seriously lost in there.
Uh okay, so we're gonna stay nowon on uh some bourbon, Peggy,
and this is gonna be like I'mI'm seeing this like our kind of
aperitif for the rest of theshow.
(08:44):
So we're starting with you.
Tell me about Kentucky bourbonand what makes it so special.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
Well, you know, you mentioned the 200 years for
Mammoth Cave.
Bourbon shares that history ofover 200 years that we have been
making bourbon, and it is acompletely Native American
spirit, which we love because itis a simple process yet, as we
(09:09):
talked about Mother Naturehaving a hand in it, it makes a
huge difference on the time thatwe age our product.
So, you know, across the stateof Kentucky, whiskey 200 years
ago really had a Scotch-Irishheritage.
It was the Scotch-Irishimmigrants that came to Kentucky
with their whiskey makingexperiences.
(09:31):
And because Kentucky had what Icall natural resources, you
know, fertile soil that grewcorn, incredible.
We had limestone water, which isa key ingredient to making great
whiskey because it's rich incalcium.
That is also shared with ourthoroughbred horses, with their
(09:52):
bone structure, having thatcalcium.
Uh, that's why we're known forour horses as well.
So that seasonality that Imentioned is wonderful for
maturing whiskey because in asthe barrel made out of white oak
wood is sitting in thewarehouses, the extreme
temperatures through thoseseasons allows the barrel to
(10:13):
expand and contract, pushingthat whiskey in and out, catch
capturing those flavors.
So, in essence, we were born todo this in Kentucky.
We were born to make the bestwhiskey, and I think we deserve
that pedigree of making theworld's best bourbon due to that
experience that we've had.
And in 1964, it was put inwriting.
(10:36):
It was an actual legislativeinitiative that bourbon is its
own distinct category of spirit,and we have our own unique
definition that goes along withthat.
And that's something that wejealously protect because it is
so special to us.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Fast horses and good bourbon.
I think I liked Kentucky a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
You forgot beautiful women as well.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Yeah, beautiful women.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I like it even more now.
Um so you're the first femalemaster bourbon taster.
So you obviously have, you know,naturally, probably an
incredible palette, and there'svarying levels of like the
palette that people have and howyou can identify the different
tastes and flavors.
But how would we develop that?
(11:20):
I feel like with some knowledge,like when you go into something
completely blind, you're justlike, oh, that tastes good, or
you know, I'm not like don'tlike that as much.
Or maybe you can pick out thesmoke or some of the really big
notes.
But is it possible with a littlebit of knowledge and like
expertise to develop our palateand get more out of the bourbon?
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
You know, that is a fabulous question.
And frankly, I'm glad you askedbecause it's really just about
food memory.
And the way that you design yourpalate and develop your palate
is simply walking yourselfmentally to your kitchen.
Because we all know what a fruittastes like.
We know what a banana tasteslike, an apple tastes like.
(12:00):
When we think about sweets, weknow what caramel tastes like,
vanilla tastes like.
Then you think of spice rack,uh, our spices of cinnamon,
nutmeg.
But when it comes to someonedescribing what a bourbon tastes
like, they freeze up becausethey're afraid of saying the
wrong thing.
(12:21):
So what I tell them to do iswhen they nose it, you know,
what's the first thing that hitsyou?
What is the predominant aroma?
What do you nose or taste that'ssweet?
And then we categorize it.
And what do you nose or tastethat might be spice?
And then we categorize it.
So once you start connecting thedots, your vocabulary grows.
(12:43):
And that's when you become anexpert.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
I love that.
And what a great way to kind ofstart your distillery tour, you
know, of Kentucky or before yougo and try out a few different
things.
Get a little bit of thatknowledge, or perhaps while
you're there, I'm sure you cando some, you know, tastings and
learn about the differentbourbons there as well.
But speaking of that, like we'velet's say we've learned a little
bit of that flavor profiles, butnow we want to go visit some
(13:07):
distilleries and have someexperiences while we're
traveling around the state.
What would you recommend?
Like, what would be some of yourfavorite experiences?
SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
Well, the Kentucky Bourbon Trail expands from, you
know, all across Kentucky.
So you can go to their websiteand they literally have this
beautiful list of all the areadistilleries so that you can
chart the course.
I call it the bourbon journey.
You can kind of chart yourcourse, build your own
itinerary, and then figure outthe distances.
(13:36):
And what's so beautiful aboutour distilleries now is if you
happen to visit two distilleriesin the morning, then you can
pick your lunch distillerybecause they have a restaurant.
And that's what I would go foris a distillery that actually
does food service.
So you don't spend your timelooking for a restaurant, you
know, and then you might knockout a couple more in the
(13:57):
afternoon, and then you mightend the day at a distillery that
has a really great myctologyprogram or cocktail bar so that
you can start your happy hour alittle early.
So it's being strategic on howyou spend your time for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
That's such a great tip.
The Kentucky Bourbon Trail andplan it out so you know when
you're getting your cocktail,you know when you're getting
your lunch.
That's awesome.
And of course, you can combinethat with all those other
beautiful things in the state aswell, from the outdoors to, of
course, food.
Um, and I think place helps todefine food in some way.
They're sort of linked together.
And I kind of want to get intothat detail, you know, within
(14:36):
Tennessee.
But let's broaden it out alittle bit and talk about the
American South, which has itsown sort of food identity as
well.
And I'm kind of gonna put youboth on the spot here.
Like, if you had to choose onedish, one southern dish, and
that was the only dish that youcould eat for the rest of your
life, and health wasn't aconcern, let's say as well, then
(14:56):
what would you choose?
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
Okay, for me, that that is tough, but I absolutely
love collard greens.
And the the classic way ofcooking collard greens, I think,
kind of exemplifies everythingabout the sauce.
Growing up as a kid in inDetroit, I came to my
great-grandfather's farm inMiddle Tennessee, and there were
collard greens every year forThanksgiving then.
(15:19):
And then you're cooking it withsome sort of salted and smoked
pork, which brings back the justkind of the heritage of this
area.
Uh, but it's a dish thatcontains all of these things
that I think really doesexemplify the food of the South.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Meg, what about you?
If you had one dish you couldchoose from the American South,
what would it be?
SPEAKER_05 (15:39):
Well, I I think, you know, I have to say seafood,
right?
So there's nothing better thanfresh oysters, you know,
whatever, whatever's in season,tuna, oysters.
You know, we just have uh morefresh seafood than you could
ever want in your life here.
So um, but and then there's alsoum this is very um niche, but
northeastern North Carolina iskind of well known for its
(16:02):
really good gas station food.
So there are gas stations aroundhere that you can get a better
meal than you would get in anyfive-star restaurant.
So yeah, there's there'ssomething to be said for for
really good gas, you know, friedchicken, collard greens, all
that kind of stuff.
Fried fish.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
So perfect for a road trip.
Absolutely.
And so, like when you're on aroad trip, do you just like fill
up a quarter of a tank?
Do you have to stop again?
SPEAKER_05 (16:26):
Well, you have to know where to stop, you know.
I mean, usually there are placesthat you wouldn't really think
to stop, and those are usuallythe best places for good food,
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
So that's great.
So, Peggy, five-star gasstations.
Can you beat it?
What is your favorite southerndish?
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Well, mine, of course, number one would be the
hot brown.
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
Okay, nice.
SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
It was created at the Brown Hotel, which is a
beautiful hotel, a luxury hotelin Louisville.
And it is this gorgeouscombination of layered ham and
turkey.
But what it has is a beautifullike cheese sauce on top of it.
And it's all layered on slicesof bread.
(17:07):
And it's the most hearty,comforting food you could
possibly eat.
It's also like taking a sleepingpill because you're you're so
comfortable after you eat thatand so full that you just want
to relax a little bit.
But if you've got a full day oftraveling through the Kentucky
Bourbon Trail, there is not abetter dinner that you could
possibly have than the hotbrown.
SPEAKER_00 (17:29):
I really should have eaten before this conversation.
Like listeners, if you'rehearing a a tummy rumble, it's
mine, and I I apologize inadvance.
So, Trevor, you mentionedgrowing up in Detroit and then
kind of coming down and visitingyour grandfather at his at his
farm.
That must have been a biginfluence on the kind of food
you serve today.
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
It it really is.
We we would come down every yearfor spring break and
Thanksgiving break, and theirfarm is in Gainesboro,
Tennessee, in middle of nowhere,and it really was like stepping
back in time on their farm.
They raised probably 90% of ofwhat they ate, whether it be
their cows, their their pigs,chickens, goats, all of that.
(18:07):
But my favorite part of theproperty was the canned house.
It was dug into the side of themountain there, and just a
couple little steps down intothis tiny door that you had to
duck your head to get down into,and you're all of a sudden in
this little cave.
And as a little kid, that wassomething you don't have many of
those in Detroit.
Um, but it was just lined withjars upon jars upon jars of
(18:30):
canned vegetables.
There was ham and bacon hanging.
There was a smokehouse on theproperty where they still did
all of their own curing andpreserving, and that wasn't that
long ago, but that really wasthe way of life for them.
And for me, the cooking that wedo now at our restaurant is
definitely rooted in that.
(18:51):
We do a lot of our own curing.
We get pigs from my parents'farms, break them down, cure
them, smoke them.
We try to pickle and preserve asmany things as we can from our
local farmers throughout theyear and use those products
throughout the year.
And it really does allow you inthe times when there isn't fresh
food coming in to have a tasteof summer in January.
So yeah, it really has driventhe the way that we cook.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
There's this term I heard quite recently, which I I
hadn't heard before, foodanthropology.
It's about looking at the waythat food, uh how we can
understand cultures, societies,and and individuals through food
and through the way that food uhhas changed over the years.
And I really it really struckme, it's like, yes, because when
we talk about preservinglandscapes or wildlife, that
(19:36):
that makes total sense.
But we don't really talk aboutthat in terms of food.
And and you know, the way thatwe consume and and cook food has
changed so dramatically, youknow, over the last hundred
years.
When I hear you talking aboutyour grandparents' farm and how
that inspired you, I I sort ofthink of that in a way.
Do you feel that you're part ofthat kind of preserving or
(19:56):
keeping alive that that sort ofgeneration of how food?
Was was thought of and consumedand served?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (20:03):
I mean, like a lot of the traditions of food, the
way that certain types of foodcome about are born out of
necessity.
Whether it's the cooking in theFrench countryside or uh eating
tacos in Mexico City that aremade with offcuts that most
people don't like to eat, or ifit's the type of food that we're
(20:24):
eating here in the Appalachianregion, all of those things were
born out of necessity.
And uh nowadays for a lot of us,we don't have to be as
innovative with food because wehave all of the modern
technology to, you know, wedon't have to salt our pork
anymore.
We have refrigerators.
(20:44):
But then we lose that.
I mean, and this is somethingthat's been done for uh hundreds
of years by some people in thisarea and thousands of years for
people that came well before usin this country.
So I think that continuing to dothings in that traditional way
really does help move into thenext generation.
(21:05):
And for people that don'tunderstand, well, why would you
go through all of that troublewhen you could just cook that
piece of meat?
Well, I I think it's importantto keep going back to that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Meg, what about you?
I know you're not a chef, soit's it's obviously different,
but how do you relate to that assomeone who lives in this unique
place, the Outer Banks?
SPEAKER_05 (21:26):
Sure.
I mean, you know, I am aSouthern historian.
That is actually like mybackground.
And so, and you can't tell thehistory of the South without
talking about food.
Like food is an intrinsic partof our history here.
It tells the story ofeverything, right?
It's just a very, very importantpart of our culture and our
history here.
So, but yeah, I mean, here, youknow, on the Outer Banks, just
(21:47):
like anywhere else, you know,you use what's available to you.
You can go back and and readaccounts from the 1700s and
they're recording, you know,people eating oysters and people
eating a lot of pork and peopleeating, you know, the same
things that we eat today.
And and I guess a lot of theways that we, you know, handle
it is different now withtechnology and everything, but
(22:08):
but we're ultimately doing thesame thing here people were
doing, you know, 200 years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Yeah, really interesting.
And and interesting that youmention using what's available
and us kind of coming back tothat and the preserving you're
doing as well, Trevor.
But seasonality, I think, issomething that people are are
looking more and more into.
You know, we can get whateveryou want, whenever you want, at
a supermarket right now, butthat doesn't necessarily make
things better.
(22:34):
There's something about justeating seasonal and and savoring
some of those summer fruits orwhatever it might be that is,
you know, really delicious inits own right.
What's your approach toseasonality, Trevor?
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
100%.
Cooking with the seasons means Iput on the menu whatever my
farmer brings through the backdoor, and then we figure out a
way to put on the menu becausethat's what's growing here at
that time.
I think that it's not only a wayto make really tasty food, but I
think it's definitely a moresustainable way to live, not
just for restaurants, but for uhthe population in general.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
That's awesome.
And it reminds me, this wholething kind of reminds me of of
something that I've covered inthe past, which is slow food,
the slow food movement.
And I think people are familiarwith you know, slow travel, but
you know, us travelers that arelistening to this show right
now, and that's you know,staying longer in a place,
absorbing it, you know, not justticking things off a list.
That approach to food when youtravel is true too.
(23:28):
Like, how can I eat seasonally?
How can I kind of eat in a waywhere I understand the history
of it and just kind of absorb amore sort of total experience
while hitting a few gas stationsalong the way.
Nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
You have to I when you said that I I agree
wholeheartedly, I ate some of Iate a really, really good
sandwich um at a little gasstation outside of Asheville.
We were traveling through and afriend of ours said he heard of
this place, and we're like, weare not going 45 minutes.
I mean, I don't mind going outof the way for good food, but we
(24:05):
kept driving, we got there, andit was one of the best damn
lunches I've had in a while.
And it was just at a random gasstation 20 minutes outside of
Asheville.
SPEAKER_05 (24:14):
That's it.
You never know.
You never know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
You never know.
Okay, we'll keep our eye out forthat.
It's a little secret to find agas station 20 minutes outside
of Asheville.
That's the only clue we're gonnagive.
Um, fantastic.
Well, that's been reallyinteresting talking about food.
Before we leave, tell me a bitmore about your restaurant.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Uh yeah, so it's RT Lodge, and we have a it's a
small hotel and restaurant.
We're in Marival, Tennessee, butit's kind of like an old, it's a
almost a hundred-year-oldbuilding, so it's a kind of nice
lodgy feel, beautiful, beautifuloutdoors just in the foothills
of the Smoky Mountains.
So it's a beautiful place tocome stay, take a 20-minute
drive into the mountains.
Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Explore some of those lovely mountains by day
and then come back for abeautiful dinner.
Sounds idyllic.
So, Meg, let's go over to NorthCarolina.
And can I just start by saying,isn't there something like
particularly magical about wildhorses?
And not only does it just soundbeautiful, I feel like it sort
of almost symbolizes something.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (25:11):
Absolutely.
It it never gets old.
I mean, I see wild horses everyday of my life, just about, and
every single time I see them,it's just awe-inspiring.
It just never gets old.
You can't tell the history ofthis country without talking
about horses.
SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
Yeah, and it's it when you talk about it like
that, it's it's interesting.
I I feel that when you think ofthe America, somehow that sort
of the wild horse, I mean,something about this
domesticated animal, but it'snow wild and free.
There's just something aboutthat that just seems really
powerful and says something.
SPEAKER_05 (25:44):
Yeah, and survival, you know, I mean, especially
here, you know, talking aboutthe outer banks and it's a
barrier island, it's sand, it'sscrub.
There's we don't have bigpastures, we don't have
prairies.
And so to think that it's not ahospitable place to live for
people or for horses.
And so, um, you know, to tothink about survival here for so
many centuries is it's reallyremarkable that they didn't just
(26:05):
survive.
They've, you know, again, thethe horses here on the outer
banks are just as much tied intothe history as as everything
else.
It's very, very difficult totalk about the history of this
place without talking about thehistory of the horses, too.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
And and speaking of that history, I just gotta ask,
how did they get there?
Like talking about it being asparse place, you wouldn't think
of horses naturally, you know,grazing in a place like that.
How on earth did they get there?
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Aaron, I've been wondering the same thing.
SPEAKER_05 (26:31):
Yeah, that's a good question.
For our horses here on the EastCoast, when the Spanish started
um, you know, sailing around theworld, they were colonizing, and
and horses were an importanttool for that.
And so horses were originallybrought over here on ships from
Spain.
Very quickly after that, theSpanish set up breeding farms in
Central and South America.
(26:52):
Then there was a really thrivinghorse trade up and down the East
Coast for probably about 100,150 years, um, you know, up the
East Coast, down theMississippi.
And you had a lot of differentAmerican breeds that started to
develop, many of which areextinct now.
They they, you know, morphedinto other breeds or whatever
over the centuries.
So that's how horses originallyended up here on the East Coast.
(27:15):
And then as, you know,settlement advanced up and down
the East Coast, you started tohave farms and fences and towns
and things like that.
So you lost a lot of that freeroaming livestock.
And so the last remaining groupsof these horses that once kind
of roamed freely up and down theEast Coast are right here in
North Carolina.
So we have the herd here up inKerala that's about a hundred, a
(27:37):
little over a hundredindividuals.
And then there's a herd down atthe very bottom of the outer
banks at Shackelford.
And that's it.
They're the last ones that arestill about as genetically pure
as you can get to those horsesthat were originally brought
over here from Spain.
And they're the foundation forany other horses that were
produced here in the Americasthat are distinctly American
breeds.
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
And given the, you know, you talk about the sort of
encroachment of civilizationeverywhere, we talk about that.
But, you know, given the sort offragility of that ecosystem and
the sort of human impact, thehorses must still be under quite
a lot of threat in terms ofkeeping them wild and keeping
them healthy.
SPEAKER_05 (28:15):
They are.
I mean, it's it's been a balancefor many, many, many
generations, you know.
And that's kind of, again, thestory of the Outer Banks in
general, right?
Is finding a balance betweenkeeping the environment healthy,
keeping things as wild and freeand pristine as possible.
But, you know, you've you've gotpeople in the picture, whether
that's good, bad, ugly,somewhere in between.
So there is definitely a balanceto be found.
(28:37):
And it's really important forthese horses because they are
what they are because of wherethey live.
They have developed adaptationsto that allow them to survive
here that you do not see in anyother breed of horse.
And so if they are removed fromthis environment, eventually
they will cease to be what theyare because they will not have
to continue, you know, to passthose adaptations on to their
(28:59):
offspring.
So they're very, very tied tothis environment.
You know, you can't reallyseparate them from this
environment because it's sounique.
It just doesn't exist anywhereelse in the world.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
So, what's some of the work you're doing to help
preserve and protect them?
SPEAKER_05 (29:13):
We do a lot of work with habitat preservation, um,
which is not just preservingland.
It's it's protecting the youknow, the habitat is anything
that the horses come in contactwith, and that includes people.
So there's a lot of managementthat way, which, you know, you
see a lot there in Tennesseetoo, right?
With bears and people, it's it'svery much the same, same kind of
situation.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
And like just expanding on that too, like as a
visitor, how can we come andexperience and see the wild
horses in a responsible way?
SPEAKER_05 (29:40):
Sure.
So there are commercial tourcompanies that take people up to
see the horses, and and wealways recommend that, you know,
they're highly regulated, theirguides are very well educated.
We work closely with them.
Um, and so that's a good way togo see them in a way that's
going to be educational.
You know, they know where to goto find the horses.
It's it's not an easy place todrive around if you're not
experienced driving on the sand.
And that it also lessens thefootprint, you know, because it
(30:03):
the area is accessible.
If you have four-wheel drive,you can you can go find them if
you want to.
But, you know, that's a lot ofvehicles, that's a lot of people
on the beach.
And so taking a tour kind oflessens that footprint a little
bit.
So um that's that's a great wayto go see them, you know, and we
want them to be accessible.
You know, they are the statehorse of North Carolina, they're
a cultural treasure.
And so we we want people to beable to come see them.
(30:25):
We want people to experiencethem in their natural habitat.
But at the same time, you know,everyone needs to understand
that if you are in theirhabitat, you are having an
impact on them the minute youset foot in that habitat.
So um, it's very important thatpeople understand that, not take
it for granted, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
For your destination, let's say we've
come to see the wild horses.
That's a sort of draw.
That's what we really want toexperience.
But we're gonna stay like two orthree days or whatever that is
around the area, or maybe seesome things nearby.
What would what would yourecommend us to do?
SPEAKER_05 (30:56):
Well, I mean, you know, I think we've got nature
and we've got history, you know,and so there's so many places
you can get out.
You can kayak, you can hike.
We have the largest sand dune onthe east coast in Dare County.
Um, you know, you can climb upto the top of that.
It's incredible.
Um, down a little bit south ofus, we've got Alligator River,
Wildlife Refuge.
And so where I think that's thehighest population of black
(31:18):
bears on the East Coast, and wehave red wolves, which is the
only place that they exist inthe wild.
So, you know, there there arenatural resources here that do
not exist anywhere else.
And so, you know, being able togo see one of these wild horses
that are endangered or see a redwolf that's endangered is just
awe-inspiring.
It just, it's amazing.
You know, then we've gothistoric sites, you know, we've
(31:40):
got the lost colony, the, youknow, Renock Island, and you
know, lots of Native Americanhistory.
We've got lighthouses, and so,you know, there's just there's
so many unique things that umthey're they're unique to the
outer banks, but they are a bigpart of a much broader history
um, you know, of this country.
SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
So, Peggy, coming back to you really quickly on
the theme of horses now.
I just thought of this.
Um, they're not wild, but theyare fast.
Have you been to the KentuckyDerby?
And if so, which bourbon wouldyou pair with it?
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
Well, I am laughing that you said, have I ever been
to the Kentucky Derby?
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Oh, right.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
I think the question is, how many have I missed?
That would be the easiest.
Um I have been going to theKentucky Derby since I was a
little girl.
And you know, well over 30derbies I've probably been to.
Oh, right.
And but every time I go, I'mreminded of kind of the
(32:36):
pageantry and the culturalheritage that we've created that
I'm so proud of.
And when they sing my oldKentucky home, you know, I don't
care where you're from, whereyou've traveled from, but you're
a Kentuckian for the day whenyou hear that song at the track.
And it's just beautiful.
So, yes, I have definitely beento the Kentucky Derby.
(32:59):
It is a bucket list item.
It is, and I just feel veryfortunate to have gone.
Now, as for bourbon, I don'tjust drink one during the
Kentucky Derby.
It's going to depend on my mood.
And, you know, Kentucky Derby,of course, yes, it's the big
race of two minutes in sports,but it lasts a week, you know,
if you're coming in to enjoy it,you know, as a tourist.
(33:21):
And so we actually start andhost, you know, starting on
Wednesday because there's somany different activities to
enjoy in the state during thattime, and then leading up to the
Kentucky Derby.
So it depends on what time ofday, because I would drink maybe
a lowerproof uh product duringthe day, and then, you know,
(33:44):
gradually building up to goingto distilleries and tasting
multiple products with differentflavor profiles.
And then, of course, the finaleis at the track and normally
Woodford Reserve bourbon, andthat's where I was trained,
actually.
Uh, that is the official bourbonof the Kentucky Derby.
So that is the product that Iwill partake on that particular
(34:08):
day.
The real question, uh, oranswer, I should say, to your
question is my favorite bourbonis the one you put in my hand
wearing a derby.
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
I love that.
That's such a great answer.
Well, I will see you there witha bourbon in hand.
Uh, this has been fantastic.
Thank you all so much.
Peggy, where can people connectwith you?
Find out more about what you do,maybe the Kentucky Bourbon Trail
and just all some of the amazingwork that you do.
SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Sure.
Just find me at PeggyKnowStevens.com.
I'm also on Instagram andFacebook as Peggy Know Stevens.
You know, if you follow me, Iusually post and you can find
previous photos of my derbyparties uh and experiences.
And then which fork do I usewith my bourbon can be purchased
on Amazon and other keybookstore locations.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
I'm putting it on my list for Sansa.
I think that book would be areally good one for me.
Yeah.
Hope you enjoy it.
So, where can people connectwith you, Meg, and find out more
about the the work you do withthe Wild Horse Fund?
SPEAKER_05 (35:11):
Sure.
Well, yeah, I mean, they peoplecan go to our website, it's
CorollaWildhorses.org.
Yeah, you know, we've got socialmedia.
They can keep up with us and ourwork that way.
The Northern Outer Banks has agreat tourism board and visitors
bureau.
You know, they have a wonderfulwebsite that they've actually
just revamped, and so that thatcan give people a lot of
information.
And and I I think that that's agreat, great place to get
(35:32):
started.
SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
What's your social?
Because I want to see some greatphotographs of wild horses now.
SPEAKER_05 (35:37):
Sure.
So if you go to our Facebookpage, which is just, you know,
crawl wild horses, our Facebookpage just has a lot of
information.
We're actually in the middle ofa year-in campaign right now,
and so we're putting up a lot ofcontent about history, about the
work that we're doing.
So that that's a good, good,good way to get involved.
You know, we're on Instagramtoo.
We have a community toolkit andthings like that too.
So lots of ways to help usadvocate for the horses as well.
SPEAKER_00 (36:00):
Perfect.
And Trevor, you mentioned yourrestaurant, but where can we
actually go to book our tableand maybe see some of your
delicious food?
I'm not sure if you do social aswell, but now I want to have a
look at that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
Yeah, so uh rtlodge.com, you'll have
everything there.
You can come book a room, comeget a dinner reservation and
stay with us.
But my we also have we have twodifferent Instagram pages.
One of them is RT Lodge, theother one's the restaurant at RT
Lodge, and that's where you'llsee all the good food coming in
from our farmers and what we'redoing with it.
Uh so yeah, go check that outfor sure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Well, you can also go to wanderlustmagazine.com.
There's lots of great articlesup there and photos and
information you need to planyour next trip into the
beautiful American South.
So thank you so much, guys.
It's been amazing to chat withyou.
Thanks for taking the time tocome on the show and share
everything you love about yourhome state.
SPEAKER_04 (37:02):
Sadly, that's the end of today's episode.
But before you dash off, makesure you hit subscribe and
follow us wherever you get yourpodcasts.
SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
And although that's it for today, we have plenty
more exciting episodes droppingsoon.
So do look out for those.
And in the meantime, don'tforget to check out
wanderlustmagazine.com for dailytravel inspiration.
SPEAKER_04 (37:25):
Thanks for listening, everyone.
See you next time for a futureadventure.
SPEAKER_03 (37:31):
Wanderlust off the page was introduced by Lynn
Hughes and Laura Field.
The interviewer was AaronMiller.
The show was produced byArmchair Productions, the audio
experts for the travel industry.
Welcome to the latest series of Wanderlust off
the page.
I'm Lynn Hughes, founding editorof Wanderlust.
SPEAKER_04 (00:14):
And I'm Laura Field, regional editor here at
Wanderlust.
SPEAKER_03 (00:18):
And it's series line already! Good heavens! In past
series, you've travelled with usto places near and far, from
journeying through colourfulQueensland to exploring the
beauty and biodiversity ofColombia.
SPEAKER_04 (00:33):
And Series 9 continues our audio adventures
around the world.
From experiencing the cloudforests of Quito to delving into
the carnival and culturalheritage of Mobile, Alabama.
SPEAKER_03 (00:44):
So stay tuned and prepare to be whisked around the
world.
(01:10):
We certainly will, Laura.
We'll be heading on a journey totake in Kentucky's bourbon
scene, North Carolina's wildhorses and Tennessee's seasonal
produce.
SPEAKER_04 (01:20):
Joining host Aaron Miller today is Peggy No
Stevens, the world's firstfemale master bourbon taster
who's based in Kentucky.
Meg Puckett, Director of HerdManagement for the Corolla Wild
Horses, and Trevor Stockton, achef based in Tennessee's Great
Smoky Mountains region.
Can't wait, let's get started.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
So welcome to the show, Chef Trevor Stockton from
the great Smoky Mountains ofTennessee.
Peggy No Stevens, the world'sfirst female masturbon taster
out of Kentucky, and MegPuckett, the Director of Herd
Management at the Corolla WildHorse Fund of North Carolina.
I'm excited to talk about kindof your specialist areas, but I
thought we should start by kindof just getting a more broad
(02:26):
overview of the state.
So let's start with you, Trevor.
The great Smoky Mountains, thatis somewhere that I really want
to go back to.
I felt like I kind of only had aday or so to sort of dip into
it, but talking about naturalbeauty and the outdoors and
outdoor recreation and all thatstuff, before we get to the
food, what a beautiful placethat you live in.
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
It really is.
The Smoky Mountains, when Ifirst moved here, I learned that
the Smoky Mountains have moredifferent species of trees than
the entire continent of Europe,which was astounding.
And it really is uh you go intothose mountains, and I love
going to those mountains andthinking of people that passed
(03:08):
over those mountains to comesettle on the side of the
smokies that I'm on.
And whether it's springtime wheneverything's first coming up,
whether it's fall when obviouslythe colors are beautiful,
whether it's summer when you'retrying to escape the heat and
get up into the mountains, it'sa pretty magical place.
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
Yeah, I've been lucky to kind of drive around
Tennessee.
I was actually doing somethingcalled the Tennessee Music
Pathways, which is amazing.
Like when I think when a lot ofpeople think of Tennessee, they
think of the music rightly so.
But there's so much historythere, and you know, it's not
just Nashville and Memphis,they'll obviously go and see
those two places, but there'sjust so much history in music.
(03:45):
You must have a lot of goodtunes to accompany your food.
SPEAKER_01 (03:48):
I will say the the musical acts that come through
East Tennessee, it's it's prettyastounding.
I was shocked at how many peoplecome through East Tennessee, the
traditional music of the area,but also just people love music
here.
And everywhere you go, everyevent you're at, there's always
great music here.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
Yeah, and I you know what I like about your area in
Appalachia is you know, when wetalk about Nashville, what I
think a lot of people don'trealize is when you head out to
East Tennessee, the sort ofroots of that are in those
Appalachian Mountains and theand the kind of bluegrass and
folk music that came out ofthere.
And and when you do drive aroundand see the state, you kind of
get a sense of of all thosedifferent influences coming
(04:27):
together to really to createthat American sound.
Speaking of bluegrass, there'ssome great blue bluegrass down
in North Carolina, isn't there,mate?
SPEAKER_05 (04:34):
Yeah, there is, especially on the western part
of the state.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Yeah, I think Asheville is somewhere that's
been on my hit list for a while.
There's some really fun musiccities there.
But tell me about your region,the outer banks, because that,
you know, aside from the wildhorses, which I want to get into
in a minute, the outer banksthemselves, the sort of barrier
islands, are just a fascinatingecosystem in their own right.
SPEAKER_05 (04:55):
It's a place that's um, you know, just very
deep-rooted in a in a lot ofdifferent culture from food to
music to, you know, just ourhistory.
And then you add into that thenatural elements between the
weather and the tides.
And, you know, when when youlive on a barrier island, you're
never still, you know, the sandis always shifting, things are
always changing.
So it's a very, very dynamicplace.
SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
I think a lot of people won't necessarily be
familiar with the kind ofecology of a barrier island.
Like what is it?
What makes it a barrier island?
SPEAKER_05 (05:26):
So we are we're just a spit of sand, literally.
Um, you know, we're sand thatformed an island right off the
coast.
And so as a barrier island, weare the protection from the
mainland from storms and thingslike that.
And and it's always shifting.
You know, sand is not stable.
And so it's always moving.
The topography is alwaysdifferent.
You have sand dunes in placeswhere there weren't sand dunes,
(05:47):
you know, before the last storm,that kind of thing.
So um, and it's not just allbeach.
We've got just thousands andthousands of acres of marsh, of
coastal maritime forest.
We've got some of the mostpristine marshland and area like
that left on the East Coast.
And so it's habitat for a lot ofdifferent species of plants and
animals that you don't findanywhere else.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Last but not least, Peggy, we're gonna talk about
one of my favorite subjects,bourbon, in just a second.
But tell me about Kentucky as awhole first.
SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
Well, I think what people fall in love with
Kentucky is the natural beauty,you know, the rolling hills of
Kentucky, the seasonal way thatour industry of Kentucky
evolves, you know.
And when I say seasonal,everything from food to horses
to, you know, nature andlandscape, they really
(06:37):
appreciate the different fourseasons because it's a beauty
anywhere you go.
And so you can have anincredible culinary scene
experience.
You can enjoy going to all thedistilleries, which there are
well over 60 distilleriesthroughout the state of
Kentucky.
If you love the equine industry,we have two of the world's
(06:58):
famous racetracks right here inour backyard.
And if you truly just want toenjoy a natural setting, the
parks that we have here, thelakes that we have here is
really awe-inspiring.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
And and speaking of kind of theoutdoor aspect, if you're kind
of wanting to combine some ofthat distillery tours with some
of the outdoor experiences,Mammoth Cave National Park is
kind of bit, I'm a bit of anational park chunkie, and
Mammoth Cave has been on my hitlist for a while.
Is that somewhere you've been?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (07:30):
I've been, and I've done something called cave
splunking in the past.
Well, though.
And that was in a differentsection of Kentucky in London,
Kentucky, but it sure was fun.
Uh, but Mammoth Cave is anatural wonder.
And anyone who travels to seethe caves, they're really struck
by not only the beauty, but justthe formation and the history
(07:53):
behind it and the geology behindit.
So it's almost like this mothernature meets science feeling
that you get when you travelthrough the caves.
SPEAKER_00 (08:03):
And uh just to set the scene as well for listeners,
one of the reasons why MammothCave is so amazing is it was
discovered about 200 years ago.
I mean, Native Americans used itfor thousands of years before
that, of course.
But since those 200 years thatit's been explored in the modern
era, they've I think they'veuncovered about 400 miles
underground, but they reckon itcould reach to a thousand miles.
(08:24):
It's the longest cave system inthe world.
So I don't know the level ofyour cave spelunking, but if you
wanted to, you could probablyget seriously lost in there.
Uh okay, so we're gonna stay nowon on uh some bourbon, Peggy,
and this is gonna be like I'mI'm seeing this like our kind of
aperitif for the rest of theshow.
(08:44):
So we're starting with you.
Tell me about Kentucky bourbonand what makes it so special.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
Well, you know, you mentioned the 200 years for
Mammoth Cave.
Bourbon shares that history ofover 200 years that we have been
making bourbon, and it is acompletely Native American
spirit, which we love because itis a simple process yet, as we
(09:09):
talked about Mother Naturehaving a hand in it, it makes a
huge difference on the time thatwe age our product.
So, you know, across the stateof Kentucky, whiskey 200 years
ago really had a Scotch-Irishheritage.
It was the Scotch-Irishimmigrants that came to Kentucky
with their whiskey makingexperiences.
(09:31):
And because Kentucky had what Icall natural resources, you
know, fertile soil that grewcorn, incredible.
We had limestone water, which isa key ingredient to making great
whiskey because it's rich incalcium.
That is also shared with ourthoroughbred horses, with their
(09:52):
bone structure, having thatcalcium.
Uh, that's why we're known forour horses as well.
So that seasonality that Imentioned is wonderful for
maturing whiskey because in asthe barrel made out of white oak
wood is sitting in thewarehouses, the extreme
temperatures through thoseseasons allows the barrel to
(10:13):
expand and contract, pushingthat whiskey in and out, catch
capturing those flavors.
So, in essence, we were born todo this in Kentucky.
We were born to make the bestwhiskey, and I think we deserve
that pedigree of making theworld's best bourbon due to that
experience that we've had.
And in 1964, it was put inwriting.
(10:36):
It was an actual legislativeinitiative that bourbon is its
own distinct category of spirit,and we have our own unique
definition that goes along withthat.
And that's something that wejealously protect because it is
so special to us.
SPEAKER_00 (10:53):
Fast horses and good bourbon.
I think I liked Kentucky a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
You forgot beautiful women as well.
SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Yeah, beautiful women.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I like it even more now.
Um so you're the first femalemaster bourbon taster.
So you obviously have, you know,naturally, probably an
incredible palette, and there'svarying levels of like the
palette that people have and howyou can identify the different
tastes and flavors.
But how would we develop that?
(11:20):
I feel like with some knowledge,like when you go into something
completely blind, you're justlike, oh, that tastes good, or
you know, I'm not like don'tlike that as much.
Or maybe you can pick out thesmoke or some of the really big
notes.
But is it possible with a littlebit of knowledge and like
expertise to develop our palateand get more out of the bourbon?
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
You know, that is a fabulous question.
And frankly, I'm glad you askedbecause it's really just about
food memory.
And the way that you design yourpalate and develop your palate
is simply walking yourselfmentally to your kitchen.
Because we all know what a fruittastes like.
We know what a banana tasteslike, an apple tastes like.
(12:00):
When we think about sweets, weknow what caramel tastes like,
vanilla tastes like.
Then you think of spice rack,uh, our spices of cinnamon,
nutmeg.
But when it comes to someonedescribing what a bourbon tastes
like, they freeze up becausethey're afraid of saying the
wrong thing.
(12:21):
So what I tell them to do iswhen they nose it, you know,
what's the first thing that hitsyou?
What is the predominant aroma?
What do you nose or taste that'ssweet?
And then we categorize it.
And what do you nose or tastethat might be spice?
And then we categorize it.
So once you start connecting thedots, your vocabulary grows.
(12:43):
And that's when you become anexpert.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
I love that.
And what a great way to kind ofstart your distillery tour, you
know, of Kentucky or before yougo and try out a few different
things.
Get a little bit of thatknowledge, or perhaps while
you're there, I'm sure you cando some, you know, tastings and
learn about the differentbourbons there as well.
But speaking of that, like we'velet's say we've learned a little
bit of that flavor profiles, butnow we want to go visit some
(13:07):
distilleries and have someexperiences while we're
traveling around the state.
What would you recommend?
Like, what would be some of yourfavorite experiences?
SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
Well, the Kentucky Bourbon Trail expands from, you
know, all across Kentucky.
So you can go to their websiteand they literally have this
beautiful list of all the areadistilleries so that you can
chart the course.
I call it the bourbon journey.
You can kind of chart yourcourse, build your own
itinerary, and then figure outthe distances.
(13:36):
And what's so beautiful aboutour distilleries now is if you
happen to visit two distilleriesin the morning, then you can
pick your lunch distillerybecause they have a restaurant.
And that's what I would go foris a distillery that actually
does food service.
So you don't spend your timelooking for a restaurant, you
know, and then you might knockout a couple more in the
(13:57):
afternoon, and then you mightend the day at a distillery that
has a really great myctologyprogram or cocktail bar so that
you can start your happy hour alittle early.
So it's being strategic on howyou spend your time for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
That's such a great tip.
The Kentucky Bourbon Trail andplan it out so you know when
you're getting your cocktail,you know when you're getting
your lunch.
That's awesome.
And of course, you can combinethat with all those other
beautiful things in the state aswell, from the outdoors to, of
course, food.
Um, and I think place helps todefine food in some way.
They're sort of linked together.
And I kind of want to get intothat detail, you know, within
(14:36):
Tennessee.
But let's broaden it out alittle bit and talk about the
American South, which has itsown sort of food identity as
well.
And I'm kind of gonna put youboth on the spot here.
Like, if you had to choose onedish, one southern dish, and
that was the only dish that youcould eat for the rest of your
life, and health wasn't aconcern, let's say as well, then
(14:56):
what would you choose?
SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
Okay, for me, that that is tough, but I absolutely
love collard greens.
And the the classic way ofcooking collard greens, I think,
kind of exemplifies everythingabout the sauce.
Growing up as a kid in inDetroit, I came to my
great-grandfather's farm inMiddle Tennessee, and there were
collard greens every year forThanksgiving then.
(15:19):
And then you're cooking it withsome sort of salted and smoked
pork, which brings back the justkind of the heritage of this
area.
Uh, but it's a dish thatcontains all of these things
that I think really doesexemplify the food of the South.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Meg, what about you?
If you had one dish you couldchoose from the American South,
what would it be?
SPEAKER_05 (15:39):
Well, I I think, you know, I have to say seafood,
right?
So there's nothing better thanfresh oysters, you know,
whatever, whatever's in season,tuna, oysters.
You know, we just have uh morefresh seafood than you could
ever want in your life here.
So um, but and then there's alsoum this is very um niche, but
northeastern North Carolina iskind of well known for its
(16:02):
really good gas station food.
So there are gas stations aroundhere that you can get a better
meal than you would get in anyfive-star restaurant.
So yeah, there's there'ssomething to be said for for
really good gas, you know, friedchicken, collard greens, all
that kind of stuff.
Fried fish.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
So perfect for a road trip.
Absolutely.
And so, like when you're on aroad trip, do you just like fill
up a quarter of a tank?
Do you have to stop again?
SPEAKER_05 (16:26):
Well, you have to know where to stop, you know.
I mean, usually there are placesthat you wouldn't really think
to stop, and those are usuallythe best places for good food,
yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
So that's great.
So, Peggy, five-star gasstations.
Can you beat it?
What is your favorite southerndish?
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Well, mine, of course, number one would be the
hot brown.
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
Okay, nice.
SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
It was created at the Brown Hotel, which is a
beautiful hotel, a luxury hotelin Louisville.
And it is this gorgeouscombination of layered ham and
turkey.
But what it has is a beautifullike cheese sauce on top of it.
And it's all layered on slicesof bread.
(17:07):
And it's the most hearty,comforting food you could
possibly eat.
It's also like taking a sleepingpill because you're you're so
comfortable after you eat thatand so full that you just want
to relax a little bit.
But if you've got a full day oftraveling through the Kentucky
Bourbon Trail, there is not abetter dinner that you could
possibly have than the hotbrown.
SPEAKER_00 (17:29):
I really should have eaten before this conversation.
Like listeners, if you'rehearing a a tummy rumble, it's
mine, and I I apologize inadvance.
So, Trevor, you mentionedgrowing up in Detroit and then
kind of coming down and visitingyour grandfather at his at his
farm.
That must have been a biginfluence on the kind of food
you serve today.
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
It it really is.
We we would come down every yearfor spring break and
Thanksgiving break, and theirfarm is in Gainesboro,
Tennessee, in middle of nowhere,and it really was like stepping
back in time on their farm.
They raised probably 90% of ofwhat they ate, whether it be
their cows, their their pigs,chickens, goats, all of that.
(18:07):
But my favorite part of theproperty was the canned house.
It was dug into the side of themountain there, and just a
couple little steps down intothis tiny door that you had to
duck your head to get down into,and you're all of a sudden in
this little cave.
And as a little kid, that wassomething you don't have many of
those in Detroit.
Um, but it was just lined withjars upon jars upon jars of
(18:30):
canned vegetables.
There was ham and bacon hanging.
There was a smokehouse on theproperty where they still did
all of their own curing andpreserving, and that wasn't that
long ago, but that really wasthe way of life for them.
And for me, the cooking that wedo now at our restaurant is
definitely rooted in that.
(18:51):
We do a lot of our own curing.
We get pigs from my parents'farms, break them down, cure
them, smoke them.
We try to pickle and preserve asmany things as we can from our
local farmers throughout theyear and use those products
throughout the year.
And it really does allow you inthe times when there isn't fresh
food coming in to have a tasteof summer in January.
So yeah, it really has driventhe the way that we cook.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
There's this term I heard quite recently, which I I
hadn't heard before, foodanthropology.
It's about looking at the waythat food, uh how we can
understand cultures, societies,and and individuals through food
and through the way that food uhhas changed over the years.
And I really it really struckme, it's like, yes, because when
we talk about preservinglandscapes or wildlife, that
(19:36):
that makes total sense.
But we don't really talk aboutthat in terms of food.
And and you know, the way thatwe consume and and cook food has
changed so dramatically, youknow, over the last hundred
years.
When I hear you talking aboutyour grandparents' farm and how
that inspired you, I I sort ofthink of that in a way.
Do you feel that you're part ofthat kind of preserving or
(19:56):
keeping alive that that sort ofgeneration of how food?
Was was thought of and consumedand served?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (20:03):
I mean, like a lot of the traditions of food, the
way that certain types of foodcome about are born out of
necessity.
Whether it's the cooking in theFrench countryside or uh eating
tacos in Mexico City that aremade with offcuts that most
people don't like to eat, or ifit's the type of food that we're
(20:24):
eating here in the Appalachianregion, all of those things were
born out of necessity.
And uh nowadays for a lot of us,we don't have to be as
innovative with food because wehave all of the modern
technology to, you know, wedon't have to salt our pork
anymore.
We have refrigerators.
(20:44):
But then we lose that.
I mean, and this is somethingthat's been done for uh hundreds
of years by some people in thisarea and thousands of years for
people that came well before usin this country.
So I think that continuing to dothings in that traditional way
really does help move into thenext generation.
(21:05):
And for people that don'tunderstand, well, why would you
go through all of that troublewhen you could just cook that
piece of meat?
Well, I I think it's importantto keep going back to that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Meg, what about you?
I know you're not a chef, soit's it's obviously different,
but how do you relate to that assomeone who lives in this unique
place, the Outer Banks?
SPEAKER_05 (21:26):
Sure.
I mean, you know, I am aSouthern historian.
That is actually like mybackground.
And so, and you can't tell thehistory of the South without
talking about food.
Like food is an intrinsic partof our history here.
It tells the story ofeverything, right?
It's just a very, very importantpart of our culture and our
history here.
So, but yeah, I mean, here, youknow, on the Outer Banks, just
(21:47):
like anywhere else, you know,you use what's available to you.
You can go back and and readaccounts from the 1700s and
they're recording, you know,people eating oysters and people
eating a lot of pork and peopleeating, you know, the same
things that we eat today.
And and I guess a lot of theways that we, you know, handle
it is different now withtechnology and everything, but
(22:08):
but we're ultimately doing thesame thing here people were
doing, you know, 200 years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
Yeah, really interesting.
And and interesting that youmention using what's available
and us kind of coming back tothat and the preserving you're
doing as well, Trevor.
But seasonality, I think, issomething that people are are
looking more and more into.
You know, we can get whateveryou want, whenever you want, at
a supermarket right now, butthat doesn't necessarily make
things better.
(22:34):
There's something about justeating seasonal and and savoring
some of those summer fruits orwhatever it might be that is,
you know, really delicious inits own right.
What's your approach toseasonality, Trevor?
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
100%.
Cooking with the seasons means Iput on the menu whatever my
farmer brings through the backdoor, and then we figure out a
way to put on the menu becausethat's what's growing here at
that time.
I think that it's not only a wayto make really tasty food, but I
think it's definitely a moresustainable way to live, not
just for restaurants, but for uhthe population in general.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
That's awesome.
And it reminds me, this wholething kind of reminds me of of
something that I've covered inthe past, which is slow food,
the slow food movement.
And I think people are familiarwith you know, slow travel, but
you know, us travelers that arelistening to this show right
now, and that's you know,staying longer in a place,
absorbing it, you know, not justticking things off a list.
That approach to food when youtravel is true too.
(23:28):
Like, how can I eat seasonally?
How can I kind of eat in a waywhere I understand the history
of it and just kind of absorb amore sort of total experience
while hitting a few gas stationsalong the way.
Nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
You have to I when you said that I I agree
wholeheartedly, I ate some of Iate a really, really good
sandwich um at a little gasstation outside of Asheville.
We were traveling through and afriend of ours said he heard of
this place, and we're like, weare not going 45 minutes.
I mean, I don't mind going outof the way for good food, but we
(24:05):
kept driving, we got there, andit was one of the best damn
lunches I've had in a while.
And it was just at a random gasstation 20 minutes outside of
Asheville.
SPEAKER_05 (24:14):
That's it.
You never know.
You never know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:16):
You never know.
Okay, we'll keep our eye out forthat.
It's a little secret to find agas station 20 minutes outside
of Asheville.
That's the only clue we're gonnagive.
Um, fantastic.
Well, that's been reallyinteresting talking about food.
Before we leave, tell me a bitmore about your restaurant.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Uh yeah, so it's RT Lodge, and we have a it's a
small hotel and restaurant.
We're in Marival, Tennessee, butit's kind of like an old, it's a
almost a hundred-year-oldbuilding, so it's a kind of nice
lodgy feel, beautiful, beautifuloutdoors just in the foothills
of the Smoky Mountains.
So it's a beautiful place tocome stay, take a 20-minute
drive into the mountains.
Beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Explore some of those lovely mountains by day
and then come back for abeautiful dinner.
Sounds idyllic.
So, Meg, let's go over to NorthCarolina.
And can I just start by saying,isn't there something like
particularly magical about wildhorses?
And not only does it just soundbeautiful, I feel like it sort
of almost symbolizes something.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (25:11):
Absolutely.
It it never gets old.
I mean, I see wild horses everyday of my life, just about, and
every single time I see them,it's just awe-inspiring.
It just never gets old.
You can't tell the history ofthis country without talking
about horses.
SPEAKER_00 (25:25):
Yeah, and it's it when you talk about it like
that, it's it's interesting.
I I feel that when you think ofthe America, somehow that sort
of the wild horse, I mean,something about this
domesticated animal, but it'snow wild and free.
There's just something aboutthat that just seems really
powerful and says something.
SPEAKER_05 (25:44):
Yeah, and survival, you know, I mean, especially
here, you know, talking aboutthe outer banks and it's a
barrier island, it's sand, it'sscrub.
There's we don't have bigpastures, we don't have
prairies.
And so to think that it's not ahospitable place to live for
people or for horses.
And so, um, you know, to tothink about survival here for so
many centuries is it's reallyremarkable that they didn't just
(26:05):
survive.
They've, you know, again, thethe horses here on the outer
banks are just as much tied intothe history as as everything
else.
It's very, very difficult totalk about the history of this
place without talking about thehistory of the horses, too.
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
And and speaking of that history, I just gotta ask,
how did they get there?
Like talking about it being asparse place, you wouldn't think
of horses naturally, you know,grazing in a place like that.
How on earth did they get there?
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Aaron, I've been wondering the same thing.
SPEAKER_05 (26:31):
Yeah, that's a good question.
For our horses here on the EastCoast, when the Spanish started
um, you know, sailing around theworld, they were colonizing, and
and horses were an importanttool for that.
And so horses were originallybrought over here on ships from
Spain.
Very quickly after that, theSpanish set up breeding farms in
Central and South America.
(26:52):
Then there was a really thrivinghorse trade up and down the East
Coast for probably about 100,150 years, um, you know, up the
East Coast, down theMississippi.
And you had a lot of differentAmerican breeds that started to
develop, many of which areextinct now.
They they, you know, morphedinto other breeds or whatever
over the centuries.
So that's how horses originallyended up here on the East Coast.
(27:15):
And then as, you know,settlement advanced up and down
the East Coast, you started tohave farms and fences and towns
and things like that.
So you lost a lot of that freeroaming livestock.
And so the last remaining groupsof these horses that once kind
of roamed freely up and down theEast Coast are right here in
North Carolina.
So we have the herd here up inKerala that's about a hundred, a
(27:37):
little over a hundredindividuals.
And then there's a herd down atthe very bottom of the outer
banks at Shackelford.
And that's it.
They're the last ones that arestill about as genetically pure
as you can get to those horsesthat were originally brought
over here from Spain.
And they're the foundation forany other horses that were
produced here in the Americasthat are distinctly American
breeds.
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
And given the, you know, you talk about the sort of
encroachment of civilizationeverywhere, we talk about that.
But, you know, given the sort offragility of that ecosystem and
the sort of human impact, thehorses must still be under quite
a lot of threat in terms ofkeeping them wild and keeping
them healthy.
SPEAKER_05 (28:15):
They are.
I mean, it's it's been a balancefor many, many, many
generations, you know.
And that's kind of, again, thestory of the Outer Banks in
general, right?
Is finding a balance betweenkeeping the environment healthy,
keeping things as wild and freeand pristine as possible.
But, you know, you've you've gotpeople in the picture, whether
that's good, bad, ugly,somewhere in between.
So there is definitely a balanceto be found.
(28:37):
And it's really important forthese horses because they are
what they are because of wherethey live.
They have developed adaptationsto that allow them to survive
here that you do not see in anyother breed of horse.
And so if they are removed fromthis environment, eventually
they will cease to be what theyare because they will not have
to continue, you know, to passthose adaptations on to their
(28:59):
offspring.
So they're very, very tied tothis environment.
You know, you can't reallyseparate them from this
environment because it's sounique.
It just doesn't exist anywhereelse in the world.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
So, what's some of the work you're doing to help
preserve and protect them?
SPEAKER_05 (29:13):
We do a lot of work with habitat preservation, um,
which is not just preservingland.
It's it's protecting the youknow, the habitat is anything
that the horses come in contactwith, and that includes people.
So there's a lot of managementthat way, which, you know, you
see a lot there in Tennesseetoo, right?
With bears and people, it's it'svery much the same, same kind of
situation.
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
And like just expanding on that too, like as a
visitor, how can we come andexperience and see the wild
horses in a responsible way?
SPEAKER_05 (29:40):
Sure.
So there are commercial tourcompanies that take people up to
see the horses, and and wealways recommend that, you know,
they're highly regulated, theirguides are very well educated.
We work closely with them.
Um, and so that's a good way togo see them in a way that's
going to be educational.
You know, they know where to goto find the horses.
It's it's not an easy place todrive around if you're not
experienced driving on the sand.
And that it also lessens thefootprint, you know, because it
(30:03):
the area is accessible.
If you have four-wheel drive,you can you can go find them if
you want to.
But, you know, that's a lot ofvehicles, that's a lot of people
on the beach.
And so taking a tour kind oflessens that footprint a little
bit.
So um that's that's a great wayto go see them, you know, and we
want them to be accessible.
You know, they are the statehorse of North Carolina, they're
a cultural treasure.
And so we we want people to beable to come see them.
(30:25):
We want people to experiencethem in their natural habitat.
But at the same time, you know,everyone needs to understand
that if you are in theirhabitat, you are having an
impact on them the minute youset foot in that habitat.
So um, it's very important thatpeople understand that, not take
it for granted, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
For your destination, let's say we've
come to see the wild horses.
That's a sort of draw.
That's what we really want toexperience.
But we're gonna stay like two orthree days or whatever that is
around the area, or maybe seesome things nearby.
What would what would yourecommend us to do?
SPEAKER_05 (30:56):
Well, I mean, you know, I think we've got nature
and we've got history, you know,and so there's so many places
you can get out.
You can kayak, you can hike.
We have the largest sand dune onthe east coast in Dare County.
Um, you know, you can climb upto the top of that.
It's incredible.
Um, down a little bit south ofus, we've got Alligator River,
Wildlife Refuge.
And so where I think that's thehighest population of black
(31:18):
bears on the East Coast, and wehave red wolves, which is the
only place that they exist inthe wild.
So, you know, there there arenatural resources here that do
not exist anywhere else.
And so, you know, being able togo see one of these wild horses
that are endangered or see a redwolf that's endangered is just
awe-inspiring.
It just, it's amazing.
You know, then we've gothistoric sites, you know, we've
(31:40):
got the lost colony, the, youknow, Renock Island, and you
know, lots of Native Americanhistory.
We've got lighthouses, and so,you know, there's just there's
so many unique things that umthey're they're unique to the
outer banks, but they are a bigpart of a much broader history
um, you know, of this country.
SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
So, Peggy, coming back to you really quickly on
the theme of horses now.
I just thought of this.
Um, they're not wild, but theyare fast.
Have you been to the KentuckyDerby?
And if so, which bourbon wouldyou pair with it?
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
Well, I am laughing that you said, have I ever been
to the Kentucky Derby?
SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
Oh, right.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
I think the question is, how many have I missed?
That would be the easiest.
Um I have been going to theKentucky Derby since I was a
little girl.
And you know, well over 30derbies I've probably been to.
Oh, right.
And but every time I go, I'mreminded of kind of the
(32:36):
pageantry and the culturalheritage that we've created that
I'm so proud of.
And when they sing my oldKentucky home, you know, I don't
care where you're from, whereyou've traveled from, but you're
a Kentuckian for the day whenyou hear that song at the track.
And it's just beautiful.
So, yes, I have definitely beento the Kentucky Derby.
(32:59):
It is a bucket list item.
It is, and I just feel veryfortunate to have gone.
Now, as for bourbon, I don'tjust drink one during the
Kentucky Derby.
It's going to depend on my mood.
And, you know, Kentucky Derby,of course, yes, it's the big
race of two minutes in sports,but it lasts a week, you know,
if you're coming in to enjoy it,you know, as a tourist.
(33:21):
And so we actually start andhost, you know, starting on
Wednesday because there's somany different activities to
enjoy in the state during thattime, and then leading up to the
Kentucky Derby.
So it depends on what time ofday, because I would drink maybe
a lowerproof uh product duringthe day, and then, you know,
(33:44):
gradually building up to goingto distilleries and tasting
multiple products with differentflavor profiles.
And then, of course, the finaleis at the track and normally
Woodford Reserve bourbon, andthat's where I was trained,
actually.
Uh, that is the official bourbonof the Kentucky Derby.
So that is the product that Iwill partake on that particular
(34:08):
day.
The real question, uh, oranswer, I should say, to your
question is my favorite bourbonis the one you put in my hand
wearing a derby.
SPEAKER_00 (34:19):
I love that.
That's such a great answer.
Well, I will see you there witha bourbon in hand.
Uh, this has been fantastic.
Thank you all so much.
Peggy, where can people connectwith you?
Find out more about what you do,maybe the Kentucky Bourbon Trail
and just all some of the amazingwork that you do.
SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Sure.
Just find me at PeggyKnowStevens.com.
I'm also on Instagram andFacebook as Peggy Know Stevens.
You know, if you follow me, Iusually post and you can find
previous photos of my derbyparties uh and experiences.
And then which fork do I usewith my bourbon can be purchased
on Amazon and other keybookstore locations.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
I'm putting it on my list for Sansa.
I think that book would be areally good one for me.
Yeah.
Hope you enjoy it.
So, where can people connectwith you, Meg, and find out more
about the the work you do withthe Wild Horse Fund?
SPEAKER_05 (35:11):
Sure.
Well, yeah, I mean, they peoplecan go to our website, it's
CorollaWildhorses.org.
Yeah, you know, we've got socialmedia.
They can keep up with us and ourwork that way.
The Northern Outer Banks has agreat tourism board and visitors
bureau.
You know, they have a wonderfulwebsite that they've actually
just revamped, and so that thatcan give people a lot of
information.
And and I I think that that's agreat, great place to get
(35:32):
started.
SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
What's your social?
Because I want to see some greatphotographs of wild horses now.
SPEAKER_05 (35:37):
Sure.
So if you go to our Facebookpage, which is just, you know,
crawl wild horses, our Facebookpage just has a lot of
information.
We're actually in the middle ofa year-in campaign right now,
and so we're putting up a lot ofcontent about history, about the
work that we're doing.
So that that's a good, good,good way to get involved.
You know, we're on Instagramtoo.
We have a community toolkit andthings like that too.
So lots of ways to help usadvocate for the horses as well.
SPEAKER_00 (36:00):
Perfect.
And Trevor, you mentioned yourrestaurant, but where can we
actually go to book our tableand maybe see some of your
delicious food?
I'm not sure if you do social aswell, but now I want to have a
look at that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
Yeah, so uh rtlodge.com, you'll have
everything there.
You can come book a room, comeget a dinner reservation and
stay with us.
But my we also have we have twodifferent Instagram pages.
One of them is RT Lodge, theother one's the restaurant at RT
Lodge, and that's where you'llsee all the good food coming in
from our farmers and what we'redoing with it.
Uh so yeah, go check that outfor sure.
SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Well, you can also go to wanderlustmagazine.com.
There's lots of great articlesup there and photos and
information you need to planyour next trip into the
beautiful American South.
So thank you so much, guys.
It's been amazing to chat withyou.
Thanks for taking the time tocome on the show and share
everything you love about yourhome state.
SPEAKER_04 (37:02):
Sadly, that's the end of today's episode.
But before you dash off, makesure you hit subscribe and
follow us wherever you get yourpodcasts.
SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
And although that's it for today, we have plenty
more exciting episodes droppingsoon.
So do look out for those.
And in the meantime, don'tforget to check out
wanderlustmagazine.com for dailytravel inspiration.
SPEAKER_04 (37:25):
Thanks for listening, everyone.
See you next time for a futureadventure.
SPEAKER_03 (37:31):
Wanderlust off the page was introduced by Lynn
Hughes and Laura Field.
The interviewer was AaronMiller.
The show was produced byArmchair Productions, the audio
experts for the travel industry.
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