June 6, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode, Brian sits down with Robert Chen, a retired Army veteran turned tech entrepreneur, who’s changing the game in B2B sales automation. After pivoting from an events and social media platform, Robert founded SupportSales.ai — a groundbreaking sales software that automates lead generation, personalized email outreach, and even replies to incoming leads. Robert shares how AI is streamlining sales, reducing costs, and making business growth more scalable than ever. If you’ve struggled with sales or outreach, this episode will give you a whole new approach.
💡 What You'll Take Away For YOUR Business
🚀 How to use AI to automate sales and streamline customer acquisition
🤖 Why personalization is key to cold outreach — and how AI can automate it
💰 How Robert’s software generates 600,000 leads per month (and how you can use it)
💼 Why AI can replace a sales team of 5 to 10 people for a fraction of the cost
⚡ The biggest emotional gap holding entrepreneurs back from using AI (and how to overcome it)
📈 How Robert plans to scale SupportSales.ai with an innovative "auto-referral" feature
🔑 Why sales success comes from consistent, scalable outreach — not waiting for leads to come to you
📝 About Robert Chen
Robert Chen is a retired Army veteran and former fintech software engineer turned entrepreneur. After learning to code in his mid-20s through a bootcamp, Robert built and pivoted several startups before launching SupportSales.ai — a B2B sales automation tool that automates outreach and lead generation using AI. Robert’s approach makes high-quality sales outreach accessible to small businesses, leveling the playing field for entrepreneurs competing with larger companies.
🎯 Robert’s BEST Piece of Advice for Wantrepreneurs and Entrepreneurs
"Keep going. Pivoting is hard, but it’s necessary. When you believe in your vision and keep pushing through the challenges, success will eventually follow."
Key Takeaways from Robert’s Advice:
✔ Success comes from persistence — even after multiple pivots and setbacks
✔ Trust yourself and your instincts, even when others doubt you
✔ Momentum builds quickly once you gain traction — stay consistent
📢 Memorable Quotes
"We’ve reduced the cost of customer acquisition by 10x — AI is a game-changer for small businesses." – Robert Chen
"AI isn’t replacing human connection — it’s enhancing it by automating the manual work so you can focus on relationships." – Robert Chen
"If someone’s going to build it, I’d rather be the one to do it — and I’ll do it responsibly." – Robert Chen
💡 Actionable Takeaways
✅ Try AI for sales outreach — automate lead generation and email personalization
✅ Focus on training AI to match your tone and business style for better results
✅ Don’t be afraid to pivot — new opportunities often come from failed ideas
✅ Test your outreach strategy consistently to fine-tune performance
✅ Start with the free plan of SupportSales.ai to explore AI-driven outreach
🔗 Links & Resources
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, what is up?
Welcome to this episode of theEntrepreneur to Entrepreneur
podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brianLofermento, and today's guest
and fellow entrepreneur issomeone who I've been so excited
to have and chat with here onthe airwaves, because we are all
going to learn so much abouthow this guy he seemingly can
take technology and just whip itinto something cool that makes
(00:20):
the world a better place andthat helps businesses drive more
business and revenue and serveeven more people.
So let me introduce you totoday's guest.
His name is Robert Chen.
Robert is a retired army veteran, he's a former fintech software
engineer and he's now playingheck of a lot of volleyball yes,
even though he lives in NewYork City while entrepreneuring
full time.
(00:41):
He has built a very coolcompany it's called
supportsalesai, where theirsales software 100% automates
B2B customer acquisition, fromlead generation to auto-crafting
, custom-tailored emails andeven auto-replying to incoming
inquiries.
Now, robert loves this stuff.
Even leading up to him and Ichatting here on the air, he's
(01:03):
been screenshotting me how thetool works and sending me login
information, and it is so coolto see a really practical use
case of AI and automations thatactually helps us to decrease
our workload while alsoincreasing our ability to make
more revenue, to serve moreclients, to do more good in the
world.
So we're all going to hear somecool applications of AI as
(01:25):
Robert introduces us to all thethings that he's building.
So I'm not going to sayanything else.
Let's dive straight into myinterview with Robert Chen.
All right, robert, I am so veryexcited that you're here with
us today.
First things first.
Welcome to the show.
Hi, yes, thank you.
Heck.
Yes.
Well, Robert, you and I haveobviously exchanged some emails
(01:45):
in the lead up to today'sconversation, but I'm excited
for you to give listeners abackstory beyond the bio.
Who's Robert?
How'd you start doing all thesecool things?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh man, yeah, so I started my first company
straight out of college almost10 years ago.
I came out of a war.
I was in Afghanistan when I was21.
I finished my degree when I was23.
And then I started my firstcompany, fluta LA.
It was a crowdfundinginfluencer platform, so at the
(02:15):
time it was kind of novel.
This was 2017.
But I was fresh out of college,I didn't know what I was doing,
I didn't know how to code yet.
So I spent all my money, all mysavings, on that startup,
worked on it for two years fulltime and eventually decided I
need to learn some skills.
So I chose to learn how to code.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Did that for six years and now I'm attempting
entrepreneurship again with morewisdom.
Yeah, I love that, robert,especially.
Well, first things first, thankyou for your service.
That is obviously such a corepart of the way that you develop
your mindset and develop yourresilience, and obviously all of
those are traits that feed intoyour success as an entrepreneur
.
But I also know a lot ofpeople's ears are going to perk
up at the sound of wait.
A tech entrepreneur who didn'tlearn how to code from a young
(03:05):
age, who didn't go to school forcoding Talk to us about that,
because obviously you have theability.
I know, because I know thatyou've pivoted and transitioned
your business and builtdifferent tools along the way.
But what did learning to codelook like to the point where now
you get to launch techcompanies?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, actually in college I took an intro to
coding and I got a C.
I thought I was not smartenough, but it turns out no,
it's not true, it was just theway college taught.
Code is very dry.
So when I tried again as anadult, I took online classes and
it actually came prettynaturally and I was invested
(03:42):
enough to pay for codingbootcamp and that's when I flew
back to New York.
After the startup in LA didn'tpan out and because the
instructors gave them more handson like build something from
scratch instead of just conceptsand theories, it was actually
very enjoyable and it was fun tolearn and it was quick like I
learned how to code in threemonths and then I went on to
(04:04):
corporate and got even betterand now I'm starting my own
software company.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, that's very cool.
Talk to us about that software,robert, because what I really
appreciate about your company isit's not just software that we
can look at or that we can toywith it's software that actually
does something.
Now, I obviously know aboutsupport salesai, but introduce
listeners to it.
What is it, what is the gapthat it plugs and how does it
actually function?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
yeah, so, uh, for me personally, sales is the hardest
part of starting a company.
Like I can build the thing.
I built many apps, but gettingit in front of people's eyes,
that was where I struggled andlike, sure, I could go to
networking events and talk topeople, but never like it
doesn't scale well.
So, you know, ai is now thething, and I was actually
building a different companybefore I pivoted into sales AI.
(04:50):
But, yeah, same struggle, itwas hard to get customers.
So then I started working onthis and what I built is the
ability to reach like hundredsof thousands of contacts through
the software and generatepersonalized emails for each one
of them with AI, and all youhave to do is type a prompt,
(05:12):
select the businesses that youwant to contact through my lead
list, and we're generating about600,000 per month.
So in a few months, we'll havemillions of contacts that you
can choose from, and they're allB2B.
So, yeah, you just selecthundreds of thousands, tap send
and it'll auto follow up and youcan even enable auto reply, and
(05:35):
this is all integrated withGmail and OpenAI.
So you essentially yeah, youcould automate one of the
toughest parts of starting acompany now could automate one
of the toughest parts ofstarting a company now, and we
recently just got accepted intothe Antler Accelerator, so
things are going to kick offfast.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, I love that for you, robert.
I think it is so cool whatyou've built and what you're
continuing to build, especiallybecause I feel like this is
really two sides of the cointhat I'm excited to go into with
you here in today's episode andconversation is because one
obviously you've built thetechnology that enables this,
but the second and moreimportant side of it, which
you've called out already acouple of times, robert, is the
fact that we all in the businessworld we know who it is that we
(06:15):
want to serve.
We know who our ideal customeris.
We always throw that termaround customer avatar.
We all are aware of that, butI'm not sure where along the way
we weren't coached into goafter them, just get their lead
information and proactively goafter them.
Talk to us about that approach,because you've seen firsthand
how hard it is to find them, or,even worse, I'll say, to have
(06:37):
them find you.
I love the proactive approachthat you're powering.
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah.
So what really me to to makethe pivot into this company is
like I saw so much potentialhere.
It's like I could reach like 10000 x amount of people that I
could reach without this, likewith this software, because
without it it's hard, like youhave to create that lead list,
you have to manually send outthe emails even if you don't use
(07:03):
, like you don't manuallypersonalize, you send out just a
generic email.
Like you have to pay forsoftware to do that.
That's like it's pricey stuff,uh, and it's not as effective
because it's a generic email.
So I started building this and,uh, like it just makes a lot.
It just makes the job so muchmore easier and, especially as a
new entrepreneur, like you havelimited resources money-wise
(07:28):
and also personnel-wise.
To do what this software isdoing you need a team of five to
ten salespeople and marketing,but with the software it starts
at $99 a month.
It actually can even start forfree, it's just there will be a
cap.
So it's really powerful stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, I love that.
I love the fact that you alsocall out the real life
implications of costs andresource considerations.
It affects every single one ofus as business owners.
Even massive enterprise levelcompanies all have a set of
resources that they have to makethe most out of.
When I think about that, Ithink about how difficult it is
to compete in the adsmarketplace, For example.
(08:09):
You are bidding for ad spaceagainst massive companies,
whereas a solution like whatyou've built and especially cold
outreach in email we all useGmail, we all use our email
inboxes.
What are those costs involved?
Because, Robert, a lot ofpeople will hear about your tool
, for example, is 99 bucks amonth or free.
I love that you have a freeplan.
What are the other costsinvolved with this type of
(08:29):
outreach?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That's essentially it .
We provide the leads, likeyou're able to upload your own
lead list if you have one, butif you don't, we could provide
the lead list and you're alllike 80% precision match.
So they're highly qualified,also highly responsive leads.
Yeah, it's really a low-costthing.
This is only possible becauseAI made the hardest part of it,
(08:56):
which is the personnel cost.
It cut that or it limits thatcost, so we can bring down costs
significantly, and alsotimelines, because the AI
operates a thousand times fasterthan any human can.
The only downside, though, is,like I'm aware, this is going to
eliminate jobs, and that issomething that I'm aware of,
which I have a plan to make upfor that, just for my own
(09:20):
conscience.
So I do have a strategy to likeoffset that, I guess, in a way,
the negatives of pursuing thesoftware.
I also think it's inevitable,so that's why it's like, if
someone's going to build it, I'drather be the person and I'll
try to be responsible about it.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, talk to us about that more, robert, because
I love the fact that you callout that it's inevitable.
I mean, it doesn't make sensefor you to hold off on building
great technology that's going toreach more people, because if
you don't, somebody else isgoing to.
So I love the fact that youcalled out You're glad that it's
you, and I am as well, robert,just having had the chance to
interact with you.
Talk to us about thoseconsiderations for the long term
.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right.
So, while this is probablygoing to eliminate sales
positions, it also opens up alot of opportunities for anyone
to pursue entrepreneurship,because we just brought down the
cost significantly and reducethe amount of time that you need
to invest into sales marketing.
Um, so if you have, like, youjust focus on building a great
product and let the softwaretake care of you.
(10:18):
All the other stuff, like yourgmail account, could be
automated for the sales, evencustomer customer support.
It's the same AI.
It's aware of what yourbusiness does.
You can upload documents totrain it.
You can interact with it totrain the emails, what needs to
improve, what types of email itshould respond to or ignore.
So it gets better over time themore you use it.
(10:42):
For many use cases, um, I foundit even works for uh recruiting
or, on the flip side, if you'reapplying to jobs, this software
will also work.
Like.
It's very flexible because youcan train it.
Um, but yeah, so I thinkthere's a lot of uh potential
for people to start newbusinesses and I think that is
kind of the core of, like, theamerican dream.
(11:03):
That's that's why what makesamerica so different and special
?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, you're definitely you're preaching to
the choir here, robert.
That is so in line with ourmission behind the scenes and I
very much resonate with yourmessaging and the reason why you
view the possibilities thatcome from building such a
powerful tool.
On that note, you brought uptraining, and I'm so fascinated
by that side of the worldbecause obviously, any AI tool
we use we're not just talkingabout support salesai right now
(11:30):
but any ai tools only as good asthe inputs that we give us,
talk to it or talk to us aboutthe training and how we can get
this thing to actuallyunderstand what's our business,
what's our tone, what are thethings that we wanted to say?
How, how do we want it tooutreach?
What is it pitching?
How the heck do we train thisthing, robert?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, so what you can do is upload documents.
That's where it starts, andthen, as you start sending out
emails, it will suggest emailsto you.
This is pre-auto mode, so it'skind of like co-pilot mode.
So then it will suggest emailsto you and you can make edits to
it before you send it.
Then, once you do, uh, hit send, it sends a copy to open ai,
(12:10):
and then it could match thedifference of what it suggested
and what you ultimately sent,and then it'll adjust itself.
It'll figure out like oh, thisis what you change.
Here are some improvements thatI can make next time.
Uh, and you know, if you dothat enough times, then it'll
learn your voice and it'll it'llbasically imitate you yeah,
that is so cool, robert, justknowing a little bit of behind
(12:33):
the scenes.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'd like for you to talk to listeners about the
evolution of your platform,because when you and I first
started talking over email, Iknow that the platform was an
events and social media platforma little bit different,
obviously still incorporatingthe key ai ingredients.
What did that process look likeof transitioning from one idea
to another, which I'm very gladthat you did, robert?
I'll say that here, publicly,on the air yeah, I made a total
(12:56):
pivot.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
It was a events, uh, social media and I started in
looking into ai, likeresearching how could ai help
improve what I had built withthe event, social media and
stuff.
And it turns out like actuallythere's a whole new opportunity
there that maybe it makes moresense to pursue that.
And I'll just put what I'mbuilding on pause Because
actually the day that, the firstday that I went out like into
(13:19):
the real world with the eventsWell, actually I had been
getting users to use the eventsoftware but it wasn't like it
wasn't a b2b yet and I I startedgoing to businesses and trying
to pitch my software and I foundit so hard like I was walking
to buildings and just liketrying to introduce myself and
(13:39):
suggest something that wasn'tlike you, they weren't even
thinking about, not top of yourmind.
It was like how do I convincesomeone to now even think about
this and then consider payingfor it?
That was very tough.
And then I went home that dayand I had already done two weeks
of research on AI and I startedthinking maybe the problem that
I could solve is what I justexperienced today how do I make
(14:03):
sales with AI easier?
So I started building.
I first started with the autoreply to Gmail because that was
kind of like what was missingfrom the market, like a lot of
people were doing outbound, evenif it wasn't fully automated.
It was just like there's AI andoutbound, but no one was doing
AI and replying to emails.
(14:23):
So I started with that just todifferentiate, and then from
there I expanded to the generalpersonalized outbound emails and
then bulk personalized outboundemails thereafter, and between
those three features that's afull sales cycle.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, for sure, robert.
I love the fact that cold door,going door to door selling is
the thing that pushed you andsaid, holy cow, I actually need
to fix this, because that is apainful activity.
I've totally been there myselfas well.
You bring up personalization.
That's obviously so core toyour approach, and part of what
makes this so special is thatit's not just a generic script.
(15:02):
It's not just a generic copypaste.
I think is the worst thing thatwe can all do when it comes to
sales and marketing.
Talk to us about thatpersonalization, because a lot
of people are probably thinkingwell, it's AI, how personalized
can it get?
Is it researching this person?
Is it going to their LinkedIn?
Is it googling them?
Talk to us about thatpersonalization element yeah, so
it does.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It does research.
So every email is a businessemail, at least has a domain
attached to it, and so just byhaving that email, we can then
have the AI go to your domainresearch, to your landing page
and then use that as the contextfor how to like personalize
this email.
And it will.
It does a fantastic job.
(15:44):
Like.
It surprised me.
Well, I put in a bunch of thedifferent companies that are
just like off the top of my headand same, like the same goal of
um reach out to this companyand convince them to go to our
landing page, uh, and, and starta free trial.
That was, that was the prompt,and it would go research these
companies and come out with verydifferent, custom tailored
(16:05):
emails.
Like it'll take a copy fromtheir page and use it as one of
like.
The the triggers to like Iguess like relate to that person
and it was.
It did.
So good I was, I was.
That was what really drove meto like keep pursuing this when
I saw that there is potentialhere yeah, for sure it's very
(16:26):
cool, I'll say.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
As a podcaster, I get 20 to 30 pitches in my inbox
every single day and I can tellthe ones that have never been to
my website ever before and theyjust copy and paste.
Sometimes it's awkwardly boldedin the wrong size, robert,
because people don't have a goodtemplate and that's because
it's just a human copying andpasting and hitting send on a
bunch of emails and there's noway for them to scale that.
(16:47):
So I think it's really cool toapply technology to this.
Obviously, within the world ofAI and the world of software
tools, a lot of people are alittle uneasy still about where
their data goes and how it'shandled, and especially when it
comes to emails, we all get somany sensitive emails.
I'm always amazed at youtechnical co-founders or
technical founders, and how muchyou think about these things.
Talk to us about the dataarchitecture and the privacy
(17:09):
considerations behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, I thought about this so much because this is
sensitive stuff.
So my approach is we don't wantany, we don't want to hold any
of that personal information sothat we're not held liable.
So all the Gmail stuff stays inGmail.
The stuff that goes to OpenAI,like maybe there's an email,
like a copy of the suggestionthat OpenAI suggests that you
(17:34):
use, that you then send to gmail.
It'll hold on to that in theopen ai thread history.
But never, ever do we store anyof that content in our own
database.
That way we limit a liabilityon ourselves and also the
security of a gmail and open aresignificantly stronger than the
startup.
So I want to leverage that asmuch as possible so the two will
(17:56):
communicate through us, but atno point in time do we save the
contents of that information toour own database.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, I love that, the more and more I'm starting
to ask that question to a lot oftechnical founders.
And, robert, I love thatresponse because I feel like
that's the way forward, becausea lot of times when we use tools
I'll call out all of ourfavorite social media platforms
our content is on their platform, and so it's really cool to
hear how many software tools aresaying "'No, you have your own
(18:22):
data.
You keep all of that.
"'we actually don't even wantthat'", and it makes sense from
a liability perspective as well.
So super cool to hear thoseconsiderations behind the scenes
.
Sticking with that theme ofbeing a technical founder,
robert, I'm so fascinated by allthe things that break, because
when we talk about just businessin general, things break all
the time, but when you'resitting on top of a software
(18:43):
solution, things literally break.
You literally have bugs.
Talk to us about some of thosetwists and turns along the way
and how you keep your sanityamidst all the things that come
up.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh yeah, it's a problem, no matter the size of
the company.
Like I've worked at a 10billion dollar plus fintech
company before and bugs stillhappen.
It's just part of the job, um,so be prepared for it, I think,
is the best uh approach, like beproactive about preventing bugs
.
The way we do it at SoftwareEngineers is we write something
(19:15):
called unit tests and basicallywe're testing hypothetical
situations or edge cases forwhen things go unexpected, and
if we could catch it before thecustomer does, then we could fix
it before a customer finds it.
So I actually made that highestpriority starting last week,
because now we the features arebuilt, let's stabilize, let's uh
(19:37):
, let's write unit tests.
That that's all we're workingon moving forward for the next
few weeks yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I have a friend who works at spacex out in los
angeles and his only job is totry to get things to explode.
That is literally what he'stasked with every single day,
and then obviously there's ateam trying to have it not
explode, and so it's really coolhow committed companies are to
those fail safes and to thoseedge cases that you called out.
Robert, I wanna switch gears alittle bit I knew that time
(20:05):
would fly by with you and Iwanna squeeze quite a few more
things in and I wanna talk toyou as a fellow entrepreneur,
because obviously the technicalside of your business is one
thing, but the business strategy, the actual implementation, is
an entirely other thing.
I'm so curious to hear how yourarmy background plays into your
entrepreneurial mindset, theway that you see the world, the
way that you balance your shortand long-term strategies.
(20:27):
I'd love to hear that side ofyour brain.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, I think it kind of like I separate short and
long term, uh, with differentapproaches and goals, and even,
like, um, in personal life, likeI take working out very
seriously, like still, uh,something embedded during the
army, but like there's nolessons to learn from just going
to gyms.
Like consistency, um, uh, keepgoing through the hardships,
(20:53):
forcing yourself to do the thingeven if you don't feel like it.
Like all that stuff isapplicable to being an
entrepreneur too.
There are very extreme highsand very low lows when you're an
entrepreneur, and you got to beable to push yourself through
those low lows.
So, in terms of, like sales andmarketing strategy, like I have
(21:13):
a plan for sales which is I'mgoing to use this AI and have it
sell itself, because we aregenerating 600,000 B2B contacts,
like they're all qualified touse our own service.
So that's our sales strategyand that could be that's
something that will work longand short term.
And then, for the long term,there's a feature that I'm going
(21:36):
to build, starting in April,that I'm calling auto referral,
and it's a unique thing that isonly possible because of the
foundation that we've built sofar.
So the basic idea is everyone'sGmail account gets spam, yes,
and that spam is actually theideal target audience for our
software too.
(21:57):
So what we could do is we couldallow a user to toggle a switch
that then embeds an AI engineinto their Gmail account to
decline spam and counter offerthem to sign up for our software
, in which, if someone does,then our user will receive a 20
commission monthly, uh, for justenabling this feature, and I
(22:22):
think, if this works the waythat I intended to, it would
spread very quickly, becausewe're talking about clicking a
button and turning any past andfuture spam into income, and I
think that could be huge, like.
It'll help our business grow,it'll help our users make free
money, basically, and it'sethical.
So that's a long-term strategy.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Robert, I love that because you just revealed part
of your long-term vision andgoals.
You talked earlier on about theimportant human component of
replacing jobs and creating moreopportunities, but now I'm also
hearing that long-term goal ofyours to make email a better
place, to make our inboxesbetter places.
I love that part of yourmission.
I'll tell you this, having beenin business for more than 17
(23:04):
years now.
I started my first businesswhen I was just 19.
And a lot of people ever since2008 have been saying, oh, email
is dead.
Email is dead.
Which here we are in 2025having this conversation, and
email is still the king.
It is still the number onecommunication channel for all of
us and all of our businessesand our personal lives.
Talk to us about that, becauseI'm sure you also hear that
(23:26):
macro noise about things goingto spam, things going into the
promotions folder.
When Gmail rolled that out,everyone was terrified of that.
I'd love to hear more of that,because a lot of listeners
probably aren't aware of allthis noise around the world of
email.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, there are protections against getting into
spam, like the third-partyservice that I'm using is called
SendGrid and they have theseprotections where they limit the
amount of emails that could goout if you're getting flagged
too often.
It's dynamic, uh, they havealgorithm that figures it out so
it prevents you from gettinginto spam box.
(24:00):
And also, if you're, like,signed up as um, like a heavy
marketing uh company, then youalso get more protection.
So there are methods to protectyourself.
And also, like, as long asyou're providing quality to like
to the people that you'reemailing, they're not going to
mark you as spam as likely.
And then there's the ratio tooIf more people are finding value
(24:23):
in your service and thenthere's a smaller percent that
does mark you as spam, you'renot going to get marked as spam
as likely.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah for sure.
So many considerations when itcomes to email deliverability,
robert, I want to ask you about.
You talked about edge caseswith regards to software, but I
always think about all thelisteners and entrepreneurs that
I hear from that believe thatthey are an edge case, where
they say this sounds really cool, but it wouldn't work for my
industry, but it wouldn't workfor my service.
But it wouldn't work for myindustry, but it wouldn't work
(24:53):
for my service, but it wouldn'twork for this specific use case.
I love how much you think notjust about your technology, but
you also think about those usecases, the customers that you're
serving, all those real lifeuses for it.
Talk to us about some of thoseand please directly speak to my
audience and convince them thatthey are not an edge case.
None of our businesses are thatspecial that things won't work
for us Right edge case.
(25:14):
None of our businesses are thatspecial that things won't work
for us right.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
So actually, I I think at this current time, uh,
everyone is too afraid to totake that jump and just entrust
your business with uh ai, likeit's a scary thing, I'm, I, I'm
fully aware, um, and I actuallythink it's a great opportunity
too because, like, the softwareis way ahead of adoption right
(25:36):
now, what it's capable of doingis actually significantly better
than hiring a new employee orhiring a new grad.
That is a risk and we havetaken that risk before.
So if we're comfortable withthat, it's like an emotional gap
that needs to be covered.
It's not really a technologicalor even a logical gap.
(25:58):
We're talking about $99 permonth for a software that you
can test until you'recomfortable having it do its own
thing.
So there's really no riskunless you don't train it well.
That's the highest risk.
If you feel like it's notperforming at your level, just
don't turn it on and it won't doanything without your consent.
(26:18):
So it's really emotional gap.
We're just afraid of havingthis technology run our business
for us.
We're giving it control,essentially.
But if you are willing to takethe risk, you also reap the
rewards, because now you'redoing this one thing that your
competitors are not doing, andit can be a 10x return on your
(26:42):
time and the very low monthlysubscription.
So I suggest give it a chanceand try it out.
You start for free and ifyou're not satisfied with the
results, then just don't moveforward with it.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I love that, robert.
A lot of people talk to meabout AI, obviously just because
I talk to entrepreneurs for aliving.
But I would imagine even moreso with you is that people not
just talk to you about AI, butthey actually talk to you about
the ethical considerations, thetechnological considerations.
You just called it thatemotional gap.
Talk to us about some of thosethings that you hear surrounding
AI.
I'm particularly interested inthat emotional gap because I
(27:22):
know that a lot of listenersthey know about AI and a lot of
them are probably using ChatGPTjust to prompt with and get some
basic outputs back.
What's your take on where weare today and where we're going
to be six months from now, 12months from now, if we were to
have this conversation?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah Well, the best indicator of future is history,
right?
So we look at the last twoyears how has AI impacted us and
how have our feelings changed?
Right?
When it first came out, peoplewere super excited.
Like everyone was jumping onchat, gpt and the most random
questions, right, and that wasall we talked about.
(27:57):
And then, after it, sat for awhile and then people started
realizing like, oh, wait aminute, this thing is really
powerful.
Actually, is this thing able todo my work for me and is that
going to help me in my job, oris it going to replace me me in
my job?
And then fear started kicking.
And then now it's like,depending on who you're talking
to, they're either very excitedabout it or terrified of it.
(28:19):
So, um, I think we just need togive it more time and let this
like, let people see, like, whatit actually takes away and what
it can add to our lives.
And no one really knows theanswer yet, but for sure we need
to test it to find out.
It's not going to go away.
(28:40):
We've gone too far.
We're at a point where it'slike this is the inflection
point.
You've got to embrace it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, and one of the reasons why I so appreciate your
business, robert, is because Ilove asking guests, either on
the air or off the air, likewhat are some of the ways that
you're using AI?
And I love asking guests,either on the air or off the air
, what are some of the ways thatyou're using AI.
And I love your businessbecause you are using it.
It is part of your growthstrategy and I think that that's
so powerful because not onlyare you testing it in real time,
not only are you experiencingresults in real time, but you're
(29:09):
a user and you are building itto serve your own needs as well,
which was born even out of yourdoor-to-door sales pain that
you have gone through.
So I love that so much.
Robert, I'm going to put you onthe spot one last time in this
conversation.
It's the question that I ask atthe end of every episode, and
that is what's your one bestpiece of advice?
Knowing that you're not justvery skilled when it comes to
the technology, the coding, thebuilding of a software platform,
(29:30):
but you're also one of us,you're also a fellow
entrepreneur.
Knowing that we're beinglistened to by both
wantrepreneurs and entrepreneursat all different stages of
their own growth journeys.
What's that one piece of advicethat you want to leave them
with today?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, I would say keep going.
It's tough.
I've had to pivot many timesand even when I pivoted into
this, it was like a clear thisis the better choice.
But there were still toughdecisions to make while I was
doing this.
But you just got to pushthrough and sometimes you have
(30:04):
support Hopefully you do fromfriends and family, but that's
not always the case.
Like they have their bestinterest in you but their
beliefs don't align and that canbe tough too.
But you have to believe inyourself and you have to believe
in what you're working on.
And even if you make a decisionto pivot, then you have to
believe in that new thing too.
(30:24):
Yeah, so, and here's the thingwhen you reach that level where
it's undeniable you've builtsomething meaningful, then it
all happens at once.
Like I got contacted by antlerum and, uh, I posted the my
acceptance um letter on my, mysocial, and then all of a sudden
(30:46):
, all these people are hittingme up and like they're asking me
for advice, they're asking mewhat my plans and goals are.
People I haven't talked, therewere people who just straight up
doubted me.
So like it will happen and youjust have to believe and keep
going.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yes, so well said, Important considerations.
Robert, I really love the factthat you called out that people
around us, people who care aboutus it might feel like they're
not supporting our dreams, butthe truth is their own mindset,
their own beliefs, their ownworries can leak into the things
that they're saying to us.
We ourselves need to staycommitted and we, very
importantly, need to believe inourselves.
(31:23):
So, robert, you're such a greattestament to that.
It's been so much fun gettingto know you over email leading
up to our conversation today andseeing your excitement for your
product.
I'm very excited to get handson with it as well, and I know
that listeners will be, so dropthose links on us.
Where should listeners go fromhere?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's supportsalesai.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, listeners, you already know the drill.
We're making it as easy aspossible for you to find that
link down below in the shownotes, no matter where it is
that you're tuning into today'sepisode.
There's also a free plan.
I cannot stress that enough.
If you've never used this sortof solution whether it comes to
outreach, whether it comes toreplying to your emails Robert
has a free plan so that you cantry things out.
(32:02):
Of course, there's differentusage limitations on that, but
it's a really no-risk way notjust low-risk a no-risk way for
you to start trying it out andseeing the power of having more
scale.
A lot of us are on limitedresources.
This is your chance toessentially get more resources
in manpower and labor, becauseit's actually doing things.
It's not just another part ofyour tech stack that's going to
(32:23):
sit there unused.
So, robert, huge fan of whatyou're doing, huge kudos to you
on behalf of myself and all thelisteners worldwide.
Thanks so much for coming onthe show today.
(32:51):
Thank you, brian.
Guests, there's a reason why weare ad free and have produced so
many incredible episodes fivedays a week for you, and it's
because our guests step up tothe plate.
These are not sponsoredepisodes.
These are not infomercials.
Our guests help us cover thecosts of our productions.
They so deeply believe in thepower of getting their message
(33:12):
out in front of you, awesomeentrepreneurs and entrepreneurs,
that they contribute to help usmake these productions possible
.
So thank you to not onlytoday's guests, but all of our
guests in general, and I justwant to invite you check out our
website because you can send usa voicemail there.
We also have live chat.
If you want to interactdirectly with me, go to the
wantrepreneurshowcom.
(33:33):
Initiate a live chat.
It's for real, me and I'mexcited because I'll see you, as
always every Monday, wednesday,friday, saturday and Sunday
here on the Wantrepreneur toEntrepreneur podcast.
Hey, what is up?
Welcome to this episode of theEntrepreneur to Entrepreneur
podcast.
As always, I'm your host, brianLofermento, and today's guest
and fellow entrepreneur issomeone who I've been so excited
to have and chat with here onthe airwaves, because we are all
going to learn so much abouthow this guy he seemingly can
take technology and just whip itinto something cool that makes
(00:20):
the world a better place andthat helps businesses drive more
business and revenue and serveeven more people.
So let me introduce you totoday's guest.
His name is Robert Chen.
Robert is a retired army veteran, he's a former fintech software
engineer and he's now playingheck of a lot of volleyball yes,
even though he lives in NewYork City while entrepreneuring
full time.
(00:41):
He has built a very coolcompany it's called
supportsalesai, where theirsales software 100% automates
B2B customer acquisition, fromlead generation to auto-crafting
, custom-tailored emails andeven auto-replying to incoming
inquiries.
Now, robert loves this stuff.
Even leading up to him and Ichatting here on the air, he's
(01:03):
been screenshotting me how thetool works and sending me login
information, and it is so coolto see a really practical use
case of AI and automations thatactually helps us to decrease
our workload while alsoincreasing our ability to make
more revenue, to serve moreclients, to do more good in the
world.
So we're all going to hear somecool applications of AI as
(01:25):
Robert introduces us to all thethings that he's building.
So I'm not going to sayanything else.
Let's dive straight into myinterview with Robert Chen.
All right, robert, I am so veryexcited that you're here with
us today.
First things first.
Welcome to the show.
Hi, yes, thank you.
Heck.
Yes.
Well, Robert, you and I haveobviously exchanged some emails
(01:45):
in the lead up to today'sconversation, but I'm excited
for you to give listeners abackstory beyond the bio.
Who's Robert?
How'd you start doing all thesecool things?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh man, yeah, so I started my first company
straight out of college almost10 years ago.
I came out of a war.
I was in Afghanistan when I was21.
I finished my degree when I was23.
And then I started my firstcompany, fluta LA.
It was a crowdfundinginfluencer platform, so at the
(02:15):
time it was kind of novel.
This was 2017.
But I was fresh out of college,I didn't know what I was doing,
I didn't know how to code yet.
So I spent all my money, all mysavings, on that startup,
worked on it for two years fulltime and eventually decided I
need to learn some skills.
So I chose to learn how to code.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Did that for six years and now I'm attempting
entrepreneurship again with morewisdom.
Yeah, I love that, robert,especially.
Well, first things first, thankyou for your service.
That is obviously such a corepart of the way that you develop
your mindset and develop yourresilience, and obviously all of
those are traits that feed intoyour success as an entrepreneur
.
But I also know a lot ofpeople's ears are going to perk
up at the sound of wait.
A tech entrepreneur who didn'tlearn how to code from a young
(03:05):
age, who didn't go to school forcoding Talk to us about that,
because obviously you have theability.
I know, because I know thatyou've pivoted and transitioned
your business and builtdifferent tools along the way.
But what did learning to codelook like to the point where now
you get to launch techcompanies?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, actually in college I took an intro to
coding and I got a C.
I thought I was not smartenough, but it turns out no,
it's not true, it was just theway college taught.
Code is very dry.
So when I tried again as anadult, I took online classes and
it actually came prettynaturally and I was invested
(03:42):
enough to pay for codingbootcamp and that's when I flew
back to New York.
After the startup in LA didn'tpan out and because the
instructors gave them more handson like build something from
scratch instead of just conceptsand theories, it was actually
very enjoyable and it was fun tolearn and it was quick like I
learned how to code in threemonths and then I went on to
(04:04):
corporate and got even betterand now I'm starting my own
software company.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, that's very cool.
Talk to us about that software,robert, because what I really
appreciate about your company isit's not just software that we
can look at or that we can toywith it's software that actually
does something.
Now, I obviously know aboutsupport salesai, but introduce
listeners to it.
What is it, what is the gapthat it plugs and how does it
actually function?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
yeah, so, uh, for me personally, sales is the hardest
part of starting a company.
Like I can build the thing.
I built many apps, but gettingit in front of people's eyes,
that was where I struggled andlike, sure, I could go to
networking events and talk topeople, but never like it
doesn't scale well.
So, you know, ai is now thething, and I was actually
building a different companybefore I pivoted into sales AI.
(04:50):
But, yeah, same struggle, itwas hard to get customers.
So then I started working onthis and what I built is the
ability to reach like hundredsof thousands of contacts through
the software and generatepersonalized emails for each one
of them with AI, and all youhave to do is type a prompt,
(05:12):
select the businesses that youwant to contact through my lead
list, and we're generating about600,000 per month.
So in a few months, we'll havemillions of contacts that you
can choose from, and they're allB2B.
So, yeah, you just selecthundreds of thousands, tap send
and it'll auto follow up and youcan even enable auto reply, and
(05:35):
this is all integrated withGmail and OpenAI.
So you essentially yeah, youcould automate one of the
toughest parts of starting acompany now could automate one
of the toughest parts ofstarting a company now, and we
recently just got accepted intothe Antler Accelerator, so
things are going to kick offfast.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, I love that for you, robert.
I think it is so cool whatyou've built and what you're
continuing to build, especiallybecause I feel like this is
really two sides of the cointhat I'm excited to go into with
you here in today's episode andconversation is because one
obviously you've built thetechnology that enables this,
but the second and moreimportant side of it, which
you've called out already acouple of times, robert, is the
fact that we all in the businessworld we know who it is that we
(06:15):
want to serve.
We know who our ideal customeris.
We always throw that termaround customer avatar.
We all are aware of that, butI'm not sure where along the way
we weren't coached into goafter them, just get their lead
information and proactively goafter them.
Talk to us about that approach,because you've seen firsthand
how hard it is to find them, or,even worse, I'll say, to have
(06:37):
them find you.
I love the proactive approachthat you're powering.
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah.
So what really me to to makethe pivot into this company is
like I saw so much potentialhere.
It's like I could reach like 10000 x amount of people that I
could reach without this, likewith this software, because
without it it's hard, like youhave to create that lead list,
you have to manually send outthe emails even if you don't use
(07:03):
, like you don't manuallypersonalize, you send out just a
generic email.
Like you have to pay forsoftware to do that.
That's like it's pricey stuff,uh, and it's not as effective
because it's a generic email.
So I started building this and,uh, like it just makes a lot.
It just makes the job so muchmore easier and, especially as a
new entrepreneur, like you havelimited resources money-wise
(07:28):
and also personnel-wise.
To do what this software isdoing you need a team of five to
ten salespeople and marketing,but with the software it starts
at $99 a month.
It actually can even start forfree, it's just there will be a
cap.
So it's really powerful stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, I love that.
I love the fact that you alsocall out the real life
implications of costs andresource considerations.
It affects every single one ofus as business owners.
Even massive enterprise levelcompanies all have a set of
resources that they have to makethe most out of.
When I think about that, Ithink about how difficult it is
to compete in the adsmarketplace, For example.
(08:09):
You are bidding for ad spaceagainst massive companies,
whereas a solution like whatyou've built and especially cold
outreach in email we all useGmail, we all use our email
inboxes.
What are those costs involved?
Because, Robert, a lot ofpeople will hear about your tool
, for example, is 99 bucks amonth or free.
I love that you have a freeplan.
What are the other costsinvolved with this type of
(08:29):
outreach?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That's essentially it .
We provide the leads, likeyou're able to upload your own
lead list if you have one, butif you don't, we could provide
the lead list and you're alllike 80% precision match.
So they're highly qualified,also highly responsive leads.
Yeah, it's really a low-costthing.
This is only possible becauseAI made the hardest part of it,
(08:56):
which is the personnel cost.
It cut that or it limits thatcost, so we can bring down costs
significantly, and alsotimelines, because the AI
operates a thousand times fasterthan any human can.
The only downside, though, is,like I'm aware, this is going to
eliminate jobs, and that issomething that I'm aware of,
which I have a plan to make upfor that, just for my own
(09:20):
conscience.
So I do have a strategy to likeoffset that, I guess, in a way,
the negatives of pursuing thesoftware.
I also think it's inevitable,so that's why it's like, if
someone's going to build it, I'drather be the person and I'll
try to be responsible about it.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, talk to us about that more, robert, because
I love the fact that you callout that it's inevitable.
I mean, it doesn't make sensefor you to hold off on building
great technology that's going toreach more people, because if
you don't, somebody else isgoing to.
So I love the fact that youcalled out You're glad that it's
you, and I am as well, robert,just having had the chance to
interact with you.
Talk to us about thoseconsiderations for the long term
.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Right.
So, while this is probablygoing to eliminate sales
positions, it also opens up alot of opportunities for anyone
to pursue entrepreneurship,because we just brought down the
cost significantly and reducethe amount of time that you need
to invest into sales marketing.
Um, so if you have, like, youjust focus on building a great
product and let the softwaretake care of you.
(10:18):
All the other stuff, like yourgmail account, could be
automated for the sales, evencustomer customer support.
It's the same AI.
It's aware of what yourbusiness does.
You can upload documents totrain it.
You can interact with it totrain the emails, what needs to
improve, what types of email itshould respond to or ignore.
So it gets better over time themore you use it.
(10:42):
For many use cases, um, I foundit even works for uh recruiting
or, on the flip side, if you'reapplying to jobs, this software
will also work.
Like.
It's very flexible because youcan train it.
Um, but yeah, so I thinkthere's a lot of uh potential
for people to start newbusinesses and I think that is
kind of the core of, like, theamerican dream.
(11:03):
That's that's why what makesamerica so different and special
?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, you're definitely you're preaching to
the choir here, robert.
That is so in line with ourmission behind the scenes and I
very much resonate with yourmessaging and the reason why you
view the possibilities thatcome from building such a
powerful tool.
On that note, you brought uptraining, and I'm so fascinated
by that side of the worldbecause obviously, any AI tool
we use we're not just talkingabout support salesai right now
(11:30):
but any ai tools only as good asthe inputs that we give us,
talk to it or talk to us aboutthe training and how we can get
this thing to actuallyunderstand what's our business,
what's our tone, what are thethings that we wanted to say?
How, how do we want it tooutreach?
What is it pitching?
How the heck do we train thisthing, robert?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, so what you can do is upload documents.
That's where it starts, andthen, as you start sending out
emails, it will suggest emailsto you.
This is pre-auto mode, so it'skind of like co-pilot mode.
So then it will suggest emailsto you and you can make edits to
it before you send it.
Then, once you do, uh, hit send, it sends a copy to open ai,
(12:10):
and then it could match thedifference of what it suggested
and what you ultimately sent,and then it'll adjust itself.
It'll figure out like oh, thisis what you change.
Here are some improvements thatI can make next time.
Uh, and you know, if you dothat enough times, then it'll
learn your voice and it'll it'llbasically imitate you yeah,
that is so cool, robert, justknowing a little bit of behind
(12:33):
the scenes.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I'd like for you to talk to listeners about the
evolution of your platform,because when you and I first
started talking over email, Iknow that the platform was an
events and social media platforma little bit different,
obviously still incorporatingthe key ai ingredients.
What did that process look likeof transitioning from one idea
to another, which I'm very gladthat you did, robert?
I'll say that here, publicly,on the air yeah, I made a total
(12:56):
pivot.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
It was a events, uh, social media and I started in
looking into ai, likeresearching how could ai help
improve what I had built withthe event, social media and
stuff.
And it turns out like actuallythere's a whole new opportunity
there that maybe it makes moresense to pursue that.
And I'll just put what I'mbuilding on pause Because
actually the day that, the firstday that I went out like into
(13:19):
the real world with the eventsWell, actually I had been
getting users to use the eventsoftware but it wasn't like it
wasn't a b2b yet and I I startedgoing to businesses and trying
to pitch my software and I foundit so hard like I was walking
to buildings and just liketrying to introduce myself and
(13:39):
suggest something that wasn'tlike you, they weren't even
thinking about, not top of yourmind.
It was like how do I convincesomeone to now even think about
this and then consider payingfor it?
That was very tough.
And then I went home that dayand I had already done two weeks
of research on AI and I startedthinking maybe the problem that
I could solve is what I justexperienced today how do I make
(14:03):
sales with AI easier?
So I started building.
I first started with the autoreply to Gmail because that was
kind of like what was missingfrom the market, like a lot of
people were doing outbound, evenif it wasn't fully automated.
It was just like there's AI andoutbound, but no one was doing
AI and replying to emails.
(14:23):
So I started with that just todifferentiate, and then from
there I expanded to the generalpersonalized outbound emails and
then bulk personalized outboundemails thereafter, and between
those three features that's afull sales cycle.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, for sure, robert.
I love the fact that cold door,going door to door selling is
the thing that pushed you andsaid, holy cow, I actually need
to fix this, because that is apainful activity.
I've totally been there myselfas well.
You bring up personalization.
That's obviously so core toyour approach, and part of what
makes this so special is thatit's not just a generic script.
(15:02):
It's not just a generic copypaste.
I think is the worst thing thatwe can all do when it comes to
sales and marketing.
Talk to us about thatpersonalization, because a lot
of people are probably thinkingwell, it's AI, how personalized
can it get?
Is it researching this person?
Is it going to their LinkedIn?
Is it googling them?
Talk to us about thatpersonalization element yeah, so
it does.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It does research.
So every email is a businessemail, at least has a domain
attached to it, and so just byhaving that email, we can then
have the AI go to your domainresearch, to your landing page
and then use that as the contextfor how to like personalize
this email.
And it will.
It does a fantastic job.
(15:44):
Like.
It surprised me.
Well, I put in a bunch of thedifferent companies that are
just like off the top of my headand same, like the same goal of
um reach out to this companyand convince them to go to our
landing page, uh, and, and starta free trial.
That was, that was the prompt,and it would go research these
companies and come out with verydifferent, custom tailored
(16:05):
emails.
Like it'll take a copy fromtheir page and use it as one of
like.
The the triggers to like Iguess like relate to that person
and it was.
It did.
So good I was, I was.
That was what really drove meto like keep pursuing this when
I saw that there is potentialhere yeah, for sure it's very
(16:26):
cool, I'll say.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
As a podcaster, I get 20 to 30 pitches in my inbox
every single day and I can tellthe ones that have never been to
my website ever before and theyjust copy and paste.
Sometimes it's awkwardly boldedin the wrong size, robert,
because people don't have a goodtemplate and that's because
it's just a human copying andpasting and hitting send on a
bunch of emails and there's noway for them to scale that.
(16:47):
So I think it's really cool toapply technology to this.
Obviously, within the world ofAI and the world of software
tools, a lot of people are alittle uneasy still about where
their data goes and how it'shandled, and especially when it
comes to emails, we all get somany sensitive emails.
I'm always amazed at youtechnical co-founders or
technical founders, and how muchyou think about these things.
Talk to us about the dataarchitecture and the privacy
(17:09):
considerations behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, I thought about this so much because this is
sensitive stuff.
So my approach is we don't wantany, we don't want to hold any
of that personal information sothat we're not held liable.
So all the Gmail stuff stays inGmail.
The stuff that goes to OpenAI,like maybe there's an email,
like a copy of the suggestionthat OpenAI suggests that you
(17:34):
use, that you then send to gmail.
It'll hold on to that in theopen ai thread history.
But never, ever do we store anyof that content in our own
database.
That way we limit a liabilityon ourselves and also the
security of a gmail and open aresignificantly stronger than the
startup.
So I want to leverage that asmuch as possible so the two will
(17:56):
communicate through us, but atno point in time do we save the
contents of that information toour own database.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, I love that, the more and more I'm starting
to ask that question to a lot oftechnical founders.
And, robert, I love thatresponse because I feel like
that's the way forward, becausea lot of times when we use tools
I'll call out all of ourfavorite social media platforms
our content is on their platform, and so it's really cool to
hear how many software tools aresaying "'No, you have your own
(18:22):
data.
You keep all of that.
"'we actually don't even wantthat'", and it makes sense from
a liability perspective as well.
So super cool to hear thoseconsiderations behind the scenes
.
Sticking with that theme ofbeing a technical founder,
robert, I'm so fascinated by allthe things that break, because
when we talk about just businessin general, things break all
the time, but when you'resitting on top of a software
(18:43):
solution, things literally break.
You literally have bugs.
Talk to us about some of thosetwists and turns along the way
and how you keep your sanityamidst all the things that come
up.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Oh yeah, it's a problem, no matter the size of
the company.
Like I've worked at a 10billion dollar plus fintech
company before and bugs stillhappen.
It's just part of the job, um,so be prepared for it, I think,
is the best uh approach, like beproactive about preventing bugs
.
The way we do it at SoftwareEngineers is we write something
(19:15):
called unit tests and basicallywe're testing hypothetical
situations or edge cases forwhen things go unexpected, and
if we could catch it before thecustomer does, then we could fix
it before a customer finds it.
So I actually made that highestpriority starting last week,
because now we the features arebuilt, let's stabilize, let's uh
(19:37):
, let's write unit tests.
That that's all we're workingon moving forward for the next
few weeks yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I have a friend who works at spacex out in los
angeles and his only job is totry to get things to explode.
That is literally what he'stasked with every single day,
and then obviously there's ateam trying to have it not
explode, and so it's really coolhow committed companies are to
those fail safes and to thoseedge cases that you called out.
Robert, I wanna switch gears alittle bit I knew that time
(20:05):
would fly by with you and Iwanna squeeze quite a few more
things in and I wanna talk toyou as a fellow entrepreneur,
because obviously the technicalside of your business is one
thing, but the business strategy, the actual implementation, is
an entirely other thing.
I'm so curious to hear how yourarmy background plays into your
entrepreneurial mindset, theway that you see the world, the
way that you balance your shortand long-term strategies.
(20:27):
I'd love to hear that side ofyour brain.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, I think it kind of like I separate short and
long term, uh, with differentapproaches and goals, and even,
like, um, in personal life, likeI take working out very
seriously, like still, uh,something embedded during the
army, but like there's nolessons to learn from just going
to gyms.
Like consistency, um, uh, keepgoing through the hardships,
(20:53):
forcing yourself to do the thingeven if you don't feel like it.
Like all that stuff isapplicable to being an
entrepreneur too.
There are very extreme highsand very low lows when you're an
entrepreneur, and you got to beable to push yourself through
those low lows.
So, in terms of, like sales andmarketing strategy, like I have
(21:13):
a plan for sales which is I'mgoing to use this AI and have it
sell itself, because we aregenerating 600,000 B2B contacts,
like they're all qualified touse our own service.
So that's our sales strategyand that could be that's
something that will work longand short term.
And then, for the long term,there's a feature that I'm going
(21:36):
to build, starting in April,that I'm calling auto referral,
and it's a unique thing that isonly possible because of the
foundation that we've built sofar.
So the basic idea is everyone'sGmail account gets spam, yes,
and that spam is actually theideal target audience for our
software too.
(21:57):
So what we could do is we couldallow a user to toggle a switch
that then embeds an AI engineinto their Gmail account to
decline spam and counter offerthem to sign up for our software
, in which, if someone does,then our user will receive a 20
commission monthly, uh, for justenabling this feature, and I
(22:22):
think, if this works the waythat I intended to, it would
spread very quickly, becausewe're talking about clicking a
button and turning any past andfuture spam into income, and I
think that could be huge, like.
It'll help our business grow,it'll help our users make free
money, basically, and it'sethical.
So that's a long-term strategy.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Robert, I love that because you just revealed part
of your long-term vision andgoals.
You talked earlier on about theimportant human component of
replacing jobs and creating moreopportunities, but now I'm also
hearing that long-term goal ofyours to make email a better
place, to make our inboxesbetter places.
I love that part of yourmission.
I'll tell you this, having beenin business for more than 17
(23:04):
years now.
I started my first businesswhen I was just 19.
And a lot of people ever since2008 have been saying, oh, email
is dead.
Email is dead.
Which here we are in 2025having this conversation, and
email is still the king.
It is still the number onecommunication channel for all of
us and all of our businessesand our personal lives.
Talk to us about that, becauseI'm sure you also hear that
(23:26):
macro noise about things goingto spam, things going into the
promotions folder.
When Gmail rolled that out,everyone was terrified of that.
I'd love to hear more of that,because a lot of listeners
probably aren't aware of allthis noise around the world of
email.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, there are protections against getting into
spam, like the third-partyservice that I'm using is called
SendGrid and they have theseprotections where they limit the
amount of emails that could goout if you're getting flagged
too often.
It's dynamic, uh, they havealgorithm that figures it out so
it prevents you from gettinginto spam box.
(24:00):
And also, if you're, like,signed up as um, like a heavy
marketing uh company, then youalso get more protection.
So there are methods to protectyourself.
And also, like, as long asyou're providing quality to like
to the people that you'reemailing, they're not going to
mark you as spam as likely.
And then there's the ratio tooIf more people are finding value
(24:23):
in your service and thenthere's a smaller percent that
does mark you as spam, you'renot going to get marked as spam
as likely.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah for sure.
So many considerations when itcomes to email deliverability,
robert, I want to ask you about.
You talked about edge caseswith regards to software, but I
always think about all thelisteners and entrepreneurs that
I hear from that believe thatthey are an edge case, where
they say this sounds really cool, but it wouldn't work for my
industry, but it wouldn't workfor my service.
But it wouldn't work for myindustry, but it wouldn't work
(24:53):
for my service, but it wouldn'twork for this specific use case.
I love how much you think notjust about your technology, but
you also think about those usecases, the customers that you're
serving, all those real lifeuses for it.
Talk to us about some of thoseand please directly speak to my
audience and convince them thatthey are not an edge case.
None of our businesses are thatspecial that things won't work
for us Right edge case.
(25:14):
None of our businesses are thatspecial that things won't work
for us right.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
So actually, I I think at this current time, uh,
everyone is too afraid to totake that jump and just entrust
your business with uh ai, likeit's a scary thing, I'm, I, I'm
fully aware, um, and I actuallythink it's a great opportunity
too because, like, the softwareis way ahead of adoption right
(25:36):
now, what it's capable of doingis actually significantly better
than hiring a new employee orhiring a new grad.
That is a risk and we havetaken that risk before.
So if we're comfortable withthat, it's like an emotional gap
that needs to be covered.
It's not really a technologicalor even a logical gap.
(25:58):
We're talking about $99 permonth for a software that you
can test until you'recomfortable having it do its own
thing.
So there's really no riskunless you don't train it well.
That's the highest risk.
If you feel like it's notperforming at your level, just
don't turn it on and it won't doanything without your consent.
(26:18):
So it's really emotional gap.
We're just afraid of havingthis technology run our business
for us.
We're giving it control,essentially.
But if you are willing to takethe risk, you also reap the
rewards, because now you'redoing this one thing that your
competitors are not doing, andit can be a 10x return on your
(26:42):
time and the very low monthlysubscription.
So I suggest give it a chanceand try it out.
You start for free and ifyou're not satisfied with the
results, then just don't moveforward with it.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, I love that, robert.
A lot of people talk to meabout AI, obviously just because
I talk to entrepreneurs for aliving.
But I would imagine even moreso with you is that people not
just talk to you about AI, butthey actually talk to you about
the ethical considerations, thetechnological considerations.
You just called it thatemotional gap.
Talk to us about some of thosethings that you hear surrounding
AI.
I'm particularly interested inthat emotional gap because I
(27:22):
know that a lot of listenersthey know about AI and a lot of
them are probably using ChatGPTjust to prompt with and get some
basic outputs back.
What's your take on where weare today and where we're going
to be six months from now, 12months from now, if we were to
have this conversation?
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah Well, the best indicator of future is history,
right?
So we look at the last twoyears how has AI impacted us and
how have our feelings changed?
Right?
When it first came out, peoplewere super excited.
Like everyone was jumping onchat, gpt and the most random
questions, right, and that wasall we talked about.
(27:57):
And then, after it, sat for awhile and then people started
realizing like, oh, wait aminute, this thing is really
powerful.
Actually, is this thing able todo my work for me and is that
going to help me in my job, oris it going to replace me me in
my job?
And then fear started kicking.
And then now it's like,depending on who you're talking
to, they're either very excitedabout it or terrified of it.
(28:19):
So, um, I think we just need togive it more time and let this
like, let people see, like, whatit actually takes away and what
it can add to our lives.
And no one really knows theanswer yet, but for sure we need
to test it to find out.
It's not going to go away.
(28:40):
We've gone too far.
We're at a point where it'slike this is the inflection
point.
You've got to embrace it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, and one of the reasons why I so appreciate your
business, robert, is because Ilove asking guests, either on
the air or off the air, likewhat are some of the ways that
you're using AI?
And I love asking guests,either on the air or off the air
, what are some of the ways thatyou're using AI.
And I love your businessbecause you are using it.
It is part of your growthstrategy and I think that that's
so powerful because not onlyare you testing it in real time,
not only are you experiencingresults in real time, but you're
(29:09):
a user and you are building itto serve your own needs as well,
which was born even out of yourdoor-to-door sales pain that
you have gone through.
So I love that so much.
Robert, I'm going to put you onthe spot one last time in this
conversation.
It's the question that I ask atthe end of every episode, and
that is what's your one bestpiece of advice?
Knowing that you're not justvery skilled when it comes to
the technology, the coding, thebuilding of a software platform,
(29:30):
but you're also one of us,you're also a fellow
entrepreneur.
Knowing that we're beinglistened to by both
wantrepreneurs and entrepreneursat all different stages of
their own growth journeys.
What's that one piece of advicethat you want to leave them
with today?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, I would say keep going.
It's tough.
I've had to pivot many timesand even when I pivoted into
this, it was like a clear thisis the better choice.
But there were still toughdecisions to make while I was
doing this.
But you just got to pushthrough and sometimes you have
(30:04):
support Hopefully you do fromfriends and family, but that's
not always the case.
Like they have their bestinterest in you but their
beliefs don't align and that canbe tough too.
But you have to believe inyourself and you have to believe
in what you're working on.
And even if you make a decisionto pivot, then you have to
believe in that new thing too.
(30:24):
Yeah, so, and here's the thingwhen you reach that level where
it's undeniable you've builtsomething meaningful, then it
all happens at once.
Like I got contacted by antlerum and, uh, I posted the my
acceptance um letter on my, mysocial, and then all of a sudden
(30:46):
, all these people are hittingme up and like they're asking me
for advice, they're asking mewhat my plans and goals are.
People I haven't talked, therewere people who just straight up
doubted me.
So like it will happen and youjust have to believe and keep
going.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yes, so well said, Important considerations.
Robert, I really love the factthat you called out that people
around us, people who care aboutus it might feel like they're
not supporting our dreams, butthe truth is their own mindset,
their own beliefs, their ownworries can leak into the things
that they're saying to us.
We ourselves need to staycommitted and we, very
importantly, need to believe inourselves.
(31:23):
So, robert, you're such a greattestament to that.
It's been so much fun gettingto know you over email leading
up to our conversation today andseeing your excitement for your
product.
I'm very excited to get handson with it as well, and I know
that listeners will be, so dropthose links on us.
Where should listeners go fromhere?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's supportsalesai.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, listeners, you already know the drill.
We're making it as easy aspossible for you to find that
link down below in the shownotes, no matter where it is
that you're tuning into today'sepisode.
There's also a free plan.
I cannot stress that enough.
If you've never used this sortof solution whether it comes to
outreach, whether it comes toreplying to your emails Robert
has a free plan so that you cantry things out.
(32:02):
Of course, there's differentusage limitations on that, but
it's a really no-risk way notjust low-risk a no-risk way for
you to start trying it out andseeing the power of having more
scale.
A lot of us are on limitedresources.
This is your chance toessentially get more resources
in manpower and labor, becauseit's actually doing things.
It's not just another part ofyour tech stack that's going to
(32:23):
sit there unused.
So, robert, huge fan of whatyou're doing, huge kudos to you
on behalf of myself and all thelisteners worldwide.
Thanks so much for coming onthe show today.
(32:51):
Thank you, brian.
Guests, there's a reason why weare ad free and have produced so
many incredible episodes fivedays a week for you, and it's
because our guests step up tothe plate.
These are not sponsoredepisodes.
These are not infomercials.
Our guests help us cover thecosts of our productions.
They so deeply believe in thepower of getting their message
(33:12):
out in front of you, awesomeentrepreneurs and entrepreneurs,
that they contribute to help usmake these productions possible
.
So thank you to not onlytoday's guests, but all of our
guests in general, and I justwant to invite you check out our
website because you can send usa voicemail there.
We also have live chat.
If you want to interactdirectly with me, go to the
wantrepreneurshowcom.
(33:33):
Initiate a live chat.
It's for real, me and I'mexcited because I'll see you, as
always every Monday, wednesday,friday, saturday and Sunday
here on the Wantrepreneur toEntrepreneur podcast.
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