November 14, 2024 • 41 mins
Prepare yourself for an enlightening exploration with Duncan Smith, our knowledgeable Washington representative for the marine industries, as we dissect the intricate dance between the political sphere and the marine industry. With the upcoming election on the horizon, we unravel the complexities of a deeply polarized political landscape and its reverberations on pivotal legislative sessions. Discover how early voting and voter turnout are reshaping dynamics, and brace for insights into potential shifts in congressional leadership and their implications.
Transitioning from politics to the environment, we shine a spotlight on the burgeoning blue economy and its harmonious link with the marine industry in South Florida. Dive into the collaborative efforts spearheaded by the Marine Industry Association and academia to foster sustainable practices and tackle pressing environmental challenges. From securing funding for eco-friendly initiatives to the crucial role of small businesses in storm recovery, we unpack the political undertones that shape these endeavors and celebrate the strides made in enhancing agency communication.
As we round off our discussion, the complexities of marine industry regulation and compliance take center stage. We share the collaborative triumphs achieved between industry leaders and regulatory bodies, aiming to simplify processes for vessels and crew members. Highlighting the Department of Agriculture's innovative protocols for managing organic waste, we delve into the proactive measures ensuring disease prevention. Join us in recognizing these pivotal discussions and the commitment to future progress in the blue economy, setting the stage for an even more impactful Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show next year.
Wards Marine Electric
https://www.wardsmarine.com/
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https://www.youtube.com/@WardsWay75
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristina Hebert (00:08):
Welcome to the W Worthway Podcast.
We're here again at the FortLauderdale International Boat
(00:36):
Show here, 2024, 65thanniversary of the Fort
Lauderdale Boat Show, and I'mhere today with my friend,
duncan Smith, who is theWashington representative for
the marine industries and hasworked with us for decades, and
so I have to kick it off.
We're in the, we have theelection on Tuesday.
Tell me your thoughts and thenwe're going to get into all the
issues that we have movingforward.
(00:57):
What do you think's happening?
Duncan Smith (00:59):
Well, I mean it's the country's absolutely split
in half.
Kristina Hebert (01:05):
Agree.
Duncan Smith (01:05):
And I think this everybody's the word is toss up
for this, for this election, andeverybody's, no one knows
everything's within quote,unquote, the margin of error for
the polls, and I think that'sright.
The polls, and I think that'sright.
(01:30):
Uh, I don't know that there'sany silent group out there has
there has been in prior years,like in 16, all these people
came out for trump and they weresurprised, right?
Um, I think both sides.
Uh, I'm, I don't have a, a, tor a list, but what I call
unforced errors.
Ok, they're just making silly,stupid errors.
Kristina Hebert (01:51):
But I agree with you.
Duncan Smith (01:52):
It's like one side does it and then the other side
does it and then the other side, so they're kind of keeping it
even, and it's not intentionalon either side, but for some
reason they've lost thatdiscipline going into this final
, final days of the election.
So, um, I think everybody hasto like, uh, put the coffee on
(02:15):
and uh, stay up late and andlook at the returns.
Uh, you know, the the EastCoast will be an indicator.
Everybody, the ones thateverybody's talking about
Pennsylvania, north Carolina,even Florida, georgia and then
(02:35):
move out to Ohio, michigan,wisconsin.
By the time you get throughthose, you're going to have a
pretty good idea how the rest ofthe country is going to go in.
In my humble opinion, uh,there's some outliers in arizona
and nevada, but beyond thatthere's not a lot of a lot of.
(02:55):
I think there are going to besome surprises, uh, because of
the split in in the electorateand and the unpredictability of,
so it's all going to be aboutturnout and it's and, uh,
there's going to be aninteresting analysis afterward,
I think, by, uh, all of the,everyone, pundits and all that
(03:18):
because of the early voting thisis not your, your grandfather's
, you know election where youwent on the day and you lined up
and you got your sticker, yougot everything.
So I mean, in some places, morethan well above 50% of the
voters in a state have alreadyvoted.
Kristina Hebert (03:39):
I know that we talk about it and, as at our
company, the one thing I want tomake sure is like the boat show
didn't't.
I would say almost all of ushave all early voted because we
didn't want to let the boat showor something else, and then you
get busy and then you're like Idon't have time.
Right, you have to always maketime, so for us I like the early
voting, but I also understandthat that can be a challenge.
Duncan Smith (04:00):
I'm an early voter because I usually have been
traveling on election day, whichI'm an early voter because I
usually have been traveling onelection day, which I'm not
going to do this year.
But so I've already voted, alsoon the first day for early
voting in in person where I'mfrom in DC, and you know I'm not
(04:21):
I'm not a big fan of a long, Iagree.
You know I'm not a big fan of along lead up.
I think it's just it doesn'tgive people enough time to
assimilate and focus.
It just depends on whathappened when they got out of
bed that day.
Kristina Hebert (04:37):
Well, and the other thing is there's so much
more on a ballot than just thepresidential election and I feel
like everything else.
I mean you get bombarded by theads, but you know everybody
else, or the judges, or yourlocal representatives, or the
Senate, or the legislature, andI'm going to segue into that.
What do you think's on tap forthe lame duck session in
(04:57):
Congress?
Is there like an agenda, oneway or the other, of so-and-so
wins?
This is the plan.
If so-and-so wins is the plan.
If so-and-so wins?
This is the plan.
Do you know?
Can you give us the insight?
Duncan Smith (05:07):
well.
The election results willdefinitely affect yeah the final
days of this congress, whichwill be late november and
december what hasn't passed yetwhat hasn't passed yet are the.
The main things are what theycall the defense budget, the
National Defense AuthorizationAct, which has passed every year
(05:31):
for the last 60 some years.
And then they haven't done anyof the appropriation bills yet
for any of the agencies.
So those two things are drivingthe end of the Congress and
everybody's lining up to seewhat things they can add on to
(05:52):
those bills.
Right, separately, there'll besome cats and dogs, you know,
post offices, whatever, sure,but they're not going to,
there's not going to be a lot ofmajor stuff.
That goes on.
Um, this Congress has already,you know, earned the reputation
of a do nothing Congress, and Ithink it's going to continue.
Kristina Hebert (06:13):
Right.
What do you think about thecongressional elections?
Do you think you'll see a shiftin in leadership regardless?
Do we think we'll say, becauseyou're right're right, this
Congress hasn't really?
Duncan Smith (06:25):
performed.
I think the way thepresidential election breaks is
the way House and Senate aregoing to break.
If Republicans turn out andvote, then I think the House
will stay Republican and they'llflip the Senate.
I think the House will stayRepublican and they'll flip the
(06:47):
Senate.
If Kamala wins, then theDemocrats win the presidency,
then you may see the even bothboth houses flip, but it's just
so close, so close, and I thinkit's unpredictable.
If I were to guess, I thinkthat the Senate will flip, yeah
(07:07):
For sure, and I think the Houseis going to continue to be close
.
The problem with an evenlydivided House is that you can't
get anything done, you can't getany consensus and there are
only a few districtscongressional districts across
the country that are reallycompetitive.
(07:30):
All the others are pretty set.
People are set into theirmember.
They like their member, whetheryou like them or not.
If you like AOC in New York,you're going to stay with her.
If you like MTG in Georgia, youshould stay with her, and both
of them are extreme, but that'swhat their constituents like.
Kristina Hebert (07:54):
And that also means then that the committee
memberships don't really changethe committee.
You know, unless the wholeHouse changes or the Senate
changes, the leadership in thosecommittees may or may not
change.
But you're right, we just endup kind of much of the same.
Duncan Smith (08:10):
There are going to be some changes.
Ways and means will change.
They're talking about, like thething that the marine industry
is concerned about in the House.
Kristina Hebert (08:20):
Yeah, let's get into that.
What's the marine industry isworking on?
Duncan Smith (08:22):
Well, the House Transportation and
Infrastructure Committee has aCoast Guard Marine
Transportation Subcommittee.
That's where most of the marineindustry legislative issues are
.
That committee will have atleast a change on the Republican
side the senior one, I thinkWe'll have at least a change on
(08:44):
the Republican side the seniorone, I think.
Ok, because they have theseterm limits for holding on to
the chairmanships and that's dueto change.
Whether there's a waiver or not, we'll see.
But the committee itself willbe pretty stable in terms of
membership, in terms of theupper part of it, that you're
(09:05):
not going see a lot of change.
You're not gonna see a lot ofchange.
Kristina Hebert (09:08):
And for people listening we may be sounding
very textbook, like here's acommittee and here's a
representative and the election,but I think for people to
understand it can be a big dealwhen committee members change
because then they have a wholenew jurisdiction of what their
focus is when you have tore-educate them on the industry
and our industry is tough toeducate legislators on Sometimes
(09:31):
, whether it's Republican orDemocrat sometimes they see big
boats.
They think oh geez, these arejust rich people looking for big
tax breaks and there's really amisunderstanding that it's
about jobs, that it's aboutemployees, that it's about small
businesses and all of thoseissues.
So sometimes we end up with amountain to climb of
re-education.
So that sounds good that atleast we'll be able to keep some
(09:52):
of the momentum we've beenworking with.
Duncan Smith (09:54):
That's the biggest hurdle I have to get over in
representing the Marine IndustryAssociation is the perception
of it's just a bunch of fat catpeople that have big yachts when
it's the supply side and thethe lack of understanding of
(10:15):
what how much boats you know dofor the economy Absolutely and
spin off.
I was on a yacht yesterday.
Uh, they uh have a, a, uh anexpenditure that they know every
year uh supports 60 families.
Wow, one yacht, one yacht anduh, it's an American that owns
(10:39):
it.
It's not like it's a foreign,it's a foreign flag, but it's
not like foreigners, right, andpeople don't understand the
economic engines that boats areRight.
They just don't understand it.
And that's the biggest hurdlewe climb all the time and we
have to repeat it.
Kristina Hebert (10:59):
Over and over again.
I know and.
I know you've helped us do that, christy, but it's a lot of
work and a lot of people don'treally understand all of that
that goes into it.
Yeah.
Duncan Smith (11:11):
Right and they don't understand, when they make
adjustments, the implicationthat you can have unintended
consequences.
Sure, that ripple through theindustry.
That cause you, that cause alot of loss of economic capacity
.
Kristina Hebert (11:28):
So give me an example of that an unintended
consequence of a piece ofregulatory or legislation that
went through.
Duncan Smith (11:35):
Well, we have one now.
Even yachts have to have vesselresponse plans.
And what is that For respondingto an oil spill?
Okay, sure, and there's a lotof confusion as to how that
should be structured in a plan.
There are two componentsbasically.
(11:56):
One is for oil spill response,which is when the oil hits the
water, and then there's one onsalvage and marine firefighting.
Okay, so if there's a fire orsure, a ship or boat goes to
ground, that's a whole differentfunction, and right now there's
(12:17):
a lot of confusion aboutmerging those two concepts and
the requirements.
We have some concerns in theindustry about what we call
double counting, because youwant to have enough assets for
both functions.
But if you start merging themand conflating them or
commingling them, then thevendors for those may say, well,
(12:42):
we're going to use the sameboat for both things, or the
same equipment, and then when anincident actually occurs, many
times, particularly the moredramatic ones, you have both
functions going on at the sametime and so you don't want to
have them, like moving equipmentback and forth.
You want to have enough there.
So that's one of them, and ittells you the type of things
(13:06):
that sometimes members overreact, saying, well, what's the
problem?
Right.
Kristina Hebert (13:11):
They don't understand the impacts, and you
know I'm a big believer.
I also think, in addition to ourindustry maybe getting a bad
name, I feel like lobbying andrepresentation in Washington at
times can get a bad name.
They say you know big interests,you know only super
corporations have lobbyists andyou know wanting to change and
(13:35):
manipulate the legislature.
But I think what people don'tunderstand is legislature and
having that is so important tohave a representative like
yourself who's constantlykeeping these legislators in the
know about our industry,whether you're a Democrat,
whether you're Republican, onthe right committees so that
when and or if there's an issuethat we don't have to start
(13:55):
educating them on our industry.
They know the importance, theyknow the impacts to their
constituency and they know thatthis industry needs to be
protected.
And I have to say that, whetherI've met with a Democrat or a
Republican, once you spend thattime and educate their
legislative assistant, theirlegislative director, their
chief of staff, I have to saywe've had been very fortunate to
(14:18):
have legislators on both sidesof the aisle, even amidst all of
this craziness going on.
And I'm going to let you talkabout the blue economy.
Is that what it's called comingup?
Duncan Smith (14:28):
Yes.
Kristina Hebert (14:29):
That, once educated, I will say legislators
tend to put the politics asideand listen to the industry when
you can come up with.
You know those facts.
So I think I commend you forwhat you do, but people don't
value that all the time and theythink that you know.
Now I have an issue.
Now I need to go get a lobbyist.
No, you need to have one allthe time representing you.
Duncan Smith (14:49):
Well, that's the thing, and and uh, what is is
also a misunderstanding, is thatnot everybody has a lobbyist,
but all different points of viewand different types of
organizations have lobbyists.
Yes, girl Scouts have alobbyist.
Yes, the Catholic Church has alobbyist, you know.
General Motors has a lobbyist,you know.
Kristina Hebert (15:13):
So it's not one big thing, just for tobacco or
for you know right, or richpeople Big corporations that
sort of thing, although theyhave them.
Duncan Smith (15:24):
But it's a very diverse and very scattered, you
know, kind of industry.
And you know everybody doesn'tlike the other guy's lobbyists
but they like their own.
Kristina Hebert (15:37):
Absolutely.
Duncan Smith (15:39):
That's a good one.
Kristina Hebert (15:39):
You're right Say that again.
Duncan Smith (15:42):
It's true.
Well, yeah, I mean, when youwant your, your representative,
(16:08):
to do a good job, think aboutsomething differently, then you
know that's when you know alobbyist can be very helpful.
Some people describe lobbyingas we're in the education
business.
Kristina Hebert (16:17):
I think that's a very accurate statement.
Duncan Smith (16:19):
Not just the influence business.
Kristina Hebert (16:21):
No, but yeah.
But in order to influence, youhave to educate people on the
topic, otherwise you can'tconvince somebody that this is
what needs to be done.
So, and there's so much workthat goes into that the
background, the research, theeconomic impact studies so let's
segue into what's one of thelatest issues that you're
(16:42):
working on for the industry.
Duncan Smith (16:43):
Well, the industry , the Marine Industry
Association of South Florida,has been very supportive of what
is a growing interest, of whatis called the blue economy.
And no, it's not a democraticthing, it's about the water.
It's not a democratic thing.
It's about the water and it'sabout having it's got an
(17:04):
environmental aspect to it.
People going boating don't wantto.
You know, drag their boats anddrive them through a bunch of
junk.
Kristina Hebert (17:15):
No.
Duncan Smith (17:17):
And they don't want pollution and stuff.
So there's a naturalpartnership between clean water
and boating.
Kristina Hebert (17:25):
Okay.
Duncan Smith (17:25):
And also when boating.
You know, for years the bigthing was like the relationship
between boating and fishing.
Kristina Hebert (17:33):
Sure.
Duncan Smith (17:34):
And so you need clean water for better fish and
all this sort of thing.
So there's a lot of effort onthe part of the marine industry
association, not only southflorida but across the country,
but particularly south florida,that is promoting, you know,
best practices for all kinds ofactivities that affect the water
(17:57):
.
So, uh, structures built,structures that touch the water.
Can we have a better concreteSure?
Can we build one that is?
Kristina Hebert (18:10):
sustainable.
Duncan Smith (18:17):
For seawalls and promote the sea life and the
flora and fauna that are, youknow, under the water that
everybody needs to have thisbetter environment to boat in,
and so there's an effort thereto.
(18:38):
And South Florida has a numberof universities, colleges, that
do a lot of research, and foryears they did all this research
.
They get a grant, finish theresearch, do their report, put
it on the shelf, and they didn'ttalk to each other.
So one university did one thing, another university.
(18:59):
So what the Marine IndustryAssociation is trying to do is
create this hub where all thoseideas come together and you
share information and then youthen can promote it so that it
is implemented and put out intosmall business or actual
practice, rather than just anice academic, you know, kind of
(19:22):
exercise.
So, um, there's a, there's.
That's one of the efforts thatwe're going to be working on.
Kristina Hebert (19:28):
So why would a legislator oppose this?
What?
What's the opposition'sposition?
Is there one, or is it justeducate?
Duncan Smith (19:36):
Well, well, there's definitely the educate
side.
Why would a legislator there'ssome some may associate it with
being, you know, strictly anenvironmental thing of
preventing, you know, peopleenjoying the water?
Because you know setting offareas and that sort of thing
(20:05):
sort of thing.
But you know, most legislators,when they understand what's
going on, embrace it.
Good, and but there's a there'salso the financial side of it.
How do you pay for thatactivity?
And what happens with a lot ofthese studies and startups that
do this stuff is that they raisea little bit of money and then
they stop.
You do your report, if you havea university project or you do
(20:28):
a startup and you get going andthen you hit a wall because you
can't go beyond it.
So a lot of it is how do youget this funded Right?
And a lot of effort gets putinto getting, you know, federal
dollars, appropriation dollars,our taxes, to pay for these
(20:50):
things.
And there are people who arevery fiscally conservative that
just say, well, you know, whyare we spending money on this
kind of project or that kind ofproject?
Right, and they have adifferent priority.
Kristina Hebert (21:03):
Well, and they may be on a committee where
they're not going to see howthis benefits their constituents
, but perhaps they're anappropriator, that is, you know,
responsible for allocatingthose funds.
Duncan Smith (21:13):
Very much so, and part of the analysis we do for
looking at how to get themessage out for South Florida
and for the Marine IndustryAssociation is to do an analysis
of those member interests, andso we identify those members who
would be advocates for us inwhat we're doing.
You know somebody thatrepresents you know a farm in
(21:38):
the middle of Iowa or Kansas orsomething may not want to
support you know funding for aseawall in South Florida even
though it'll help.
But so there's there's.
There's those competingpriorities that go on.
They have their own.
that push and how to spend thefederal dollars and how to spend
(21:59):
the federal dollars.
And then the increasingaccumulation of the federal debt
.
You know the deficit.
Kristina Hebert (22:10):
Yeah.
Duncan Smith (22:11):
You know, everybody's always trying to
find a way to cut back, andevery time you cut back a
program, people get used to them.
Kristina Hebert (22:20):
And then you know Well, and how could you not
?
When you see the size of thedebt, Everybody would say
something needs to be cut back.
But not mine Right, Not myissue.
Duncan Smith (22:26):
Right.
So the you know not in mybackyard.
You know the NIMBY thing, soyou know all of those dynamics
come together when you're tryingto get members of Congress in
both houses, both the Senate andthe House, to advance.
(22:47):
You know an idea or a programor legislation that will assist
the industry.
We're watching legislation likethe in the Small Business
Administration, their programsto assist small business people
(23:09):
who are affected by storms,hurricanes and recovery, and
this or so.
Are there small businesses inthe marine industry?
Absolutely Mostly right.
So we, you know we're watchingfor things like that also.
So something that might at firstbe, you know, something
(23:31):
completely outside the area ofmarine industry you know is
really something that's central,and the marine industry can be
a participant in advancingsomething that's positive for
them.
Kristina Hebert (23:44):
Well, one thing I know that you've been very
key in successfully advancing isthe communication between
agencies.
Fully advancing is thecommunication between agencies.
Yesterday I sat and watched apanel that you were moderating
that had the US Coast Guard andCustoms and Border Protection.
Talk to me about that and Iwill tell you that I personally
(24:04):
have watched that evolve.
We used to be able to get oneperson from the Coast Guard and
maybe somebody from CBP whowould come and they would be
like why is it you want me totalk to your captains?
And, oh my gosh, am I going toget ambushed to a panel
yesterday that had 12, 15officers representing all
different segments within theiragency.
So talk to me about why thatpanel and how that's progressed
(24:27):
and how effective that is.
Duncan Smith (24:29):
This is one of the very success stories of the
Marine Industry Association atthe Boat Show.
Yes, Is that everybody's herein the industry boat captains,
crew, small business owners likeyou and others and we've
brought together these agenciesthat regulate the boating
(24:52):
industry and by regulate.
Kristina Hebert (24:54):
What do you mean?
Duncan Smith (24:55):
Well, it's like the boating industry.
And by regulate, what do youmean?
Well, it's like the oversightof things.
So, coast Guard, cbp for thecrews and cruising licenses and
things like that.
Kristina Hebert (25:05):
So when they want to come here, the boats are
trying to come in.
Duncan Smith (25:08):
Right.
So and then the other part onthis.
Well, the panel has been verysuccessful over the years and it
has built up and I'm glad youyou notice that, whereas now
they say you know we'll be backnext year.
Kristina Hebert (25:27):
Exactly.
I noticed that.
Duncan Smith (25:28):
Because we have built up this forum for
exchanging ideas.
People have these experienceswith agencies.
They get very frustrated.
It may be a one-off thing, itmay be a consistent thing, it
may be a geographic thing, wherein one area of the country they
(25:50):
get treated differently thananother area by the same agency
and this is a sounding board sothey can like sound off, have
people respond and have theagencies try to explain why.
That is why that occurs.
Kristina Hebert (26:06):
And what we're talking about is trying to come
up with a way to allow theseforeign flag boats to come into
the United States without theimpedance of these agencies, and
a lot of what I've noticed ispeople just not understanding
the process, blaming the agencyfor following the rules.
And yet the boat was notfollowing the rules.
But I think this opencommunication has helped
(26:28):
everybody.
Duncan Smith (26:28):
Yes, yeah, and well, a couple of things.
It's not not only just foreignflag, but it's also the domestic
users of US flag.
There are a lot of frustrationI have in in this job that I
(27:00):
have in representing I haven't,there hasn't been an agency in
Washington DC and all thealphabets that I haven't been
there.
So so we talk about Coast Guard, which which is very logical.
They're on the water Safety,you know safety of life and
property and all that Search andrescue, whatever CBP logical.
(27:23):
You've got crews coming on, youhave the boats that need
cruising licenses and you havevisas being checked, that sort
of thing.
But beyond that the StateDepartment, they're the ones who
issue visas.
Okay, it's CBP, you check someas you come in.
So if there's a visa, problemMultiple layers Okay.
So you may have a problemgetting the visa in the first
(27:44):
place for the crew that you wanton your vessel, and we've been
to EPA for engine emission rules.
We've been to EPA for engineemission rules.
We've had the latest one thatwe're dealing with, if you don't
mind me.
Kristina Hebert (27:57):
Oh, that's why we're here.
Duncan Smith (27:59):
You know talking trash.
Yeah, let's talk trash Is theinternational regulation of
garbage, and this is like whenyou go on your vacation to
Europe, you come back and yougot the apple that you took, you
know, on the plane and you gotto throw it in the bin when you
go back, when boats come in tothe US waters, they have all of
(28:23):
these organic things on boardfood, sure, and it's some of
it's frozen, some of it's drystores, some of it's fresh
fruits, whatever.
And so the Department ofAgriculture is concerned about
(28:46):
the different things that canhappen, like right now they're
all about the swine flu, okay,coming in fruit flies.
Kristina Hebert (28:59):
You know what they, what they can because this
produce or these provisionsthat they were receiving from
other ports, they bring it inand they're afraid that that's
going to infect the us market.
Duncan Smith (29:10):
So okay so.
So there's a legitimate concernthere.
You know, boats come in at allpoints, sure, all different
marinas all up and down thecoast.
It hasn't been a protocol inplace to really have them
(29:33):
effectively handle those thingsthat are on board, that need to
be regulated, and so we're goingthrough a process now of
identifying how to do that andwhat the protocols will be.
When you come in, do you throweverything out?
Are there things you can save,and this sort of thing?
(29:56):
These protocols have beenworked out with things like
cruise ships, and they've beenworked out.
Kristina Hebert (30:01):
That was what I was going to ask how does a
cruise ship you know Well,there's a.
They've got protocol.
Duncan Smith (30:07):
But it's a big thing.
And then airplanes, so not onlyjust the regular liners that go
back and forth, but privateaircraft that come in and out.
There's an extensive programfor private aircraft that all
the general aviation, and theyhave protocol where they have
bins, they throw the, but theydon't have, you know, big
(30:28):
reefers and refrigerators likeyachts do.
So we've looked at this problemand the Department of
Agriculture actually has aninitiative right now to reach
out to the marine industry todevelop things that make sense.
Kristina Hebert (30:46):
Okay.
Duncan Smith (30:47):
And so it's very encouraging.
Kristina Hebert (30:48):
Which is good, because lots of times they end
up making a rule that then wehave an issue with and we need
clarity, so this is very goodnews.
Duncan Smith (30:57):
And so, instead of some CBP person jumping on your
boat and saying, throw all thatstuff out, you're now going to
have an exempt list so you knowwhat you can keep and not keep,
you know how to store stuff andall of that.
You know how to store stuff andall of that, and so we're going
through those processes to getthat put into place, and it's an
(31:20):
incremental thing.
We're going to start bypiggybacking on the general
aviation and their lists and allthat because it's already done,
sure, so let's do that.
And then we're going to add onand add things that work for the
marine industry, and so we'revery encouraged by it.
It's a very positiverelationship, and the biggest
(31:55):
thing we have to overcome as Iheard, because we had them on
the panel that you're talkingabout this week is what do you
do when a boat comes into amarina, because it's a single
point source of you know, uh,you know this contamination that
can occur.
Uh, if you call a local haulerto come in and take your garbage
out, uh, in a, in a controlledcircumstance.
It's very expensive, and so weneed to come up with some better
(32:19):
ways in which to handle thoseonboard materials and products
so that it can be done in aneconomic way, but also in a
responsible way, right?
So we're talking about maybehaving a you know a bin where
there's lucky, you do the, the,the qr code, scan it, open it up
(32:44):
, throw your stuff in and itmakes a notation or whatever you
put it in your log and all thissort of thing.
All of these, particularly thelarger boats, have very, very
extensive inventories.
Every time they take a bottleof ketchup off the shelf, out of
the out of the pantry orwhatever, and start to use it,
they log it and uh, as well astheir frozen foods and all that
(33:08):
kind of stuff.
So there's, there's some basisthere for coming up with a
system and we just have to getget it nailed down so that we
have confidence that it'll work.
And uh, I think in 90s, youknow high 90 percent, you know
it'll always work.
Kristina Hebert (33:28):
Uh, you know you're always going to have bad
actors, but but um, but I thinkthe chandleries and some of
those provisioning companies canalso be supportive, because
they're the ones providing thegoods to these boats in many
other ports of calls notnecessarily here Right and I
know a lot of them are alreadydealing with some sustainability
issues and things that they'retrying to get and they have a
(33:49):
lot of influence.
So those are members of theassociation, so I'm sure that
that'll be helpful too.
Duncan Smith (33:55):
Yeah, we need.
The biggest comment was we needthe marinas to get engaged,
because that's the point atwhich the boat comes in and you
have this interface between theboat coming into the country and
the effect of whatever theyhave on board in the country,
and so will they have the bins,will they have the people that
(34:19):
are qualified to take care ofall that.
So there's a little work leftto be done, and they talked
yesterday about and this wasfrom the agency we want to put
an industry advisory grouptogether to help us.
There we go.
So it's one of the morepositive regulatory things that
(34:43):
we've done in a long, long time.
It's not confrontational and sobe very helpful.
Kristina Hebert (34:50):
Well, that's good, that is good news.
But it's also probably becauseof all the relationships and I
believe that over the decades,the Marine industry, through
people like yourself, has provento be a worthy entity of
keeping our word.
We want to be compliant, wewant to, we want to understand
regulations.
We don't want to beover-regulated, but we
understand.
I know that we could even goback to 9-11 and pre-homeland
(35:13):
security.
You know the yachting industrygot caught up in a lot of
unintended consequences, but Ithink the reason we've been able
to navigate through that isbecause we've all wanted to be
compliant.
We just all want to also sit atthe table and kind of help have
the discussion or be a part ofthe discussion about how we're
going to be regulated.
Duncan Smith (35:31):
That's exactly right, and one of the other
things that came out and italways comes out at these panels
is the agency.
The regulations are theregulations.
We just you know that's what wehave to enforce.
But what is behind all thoseregulations also is that there's
a lot of discretion that theagencies have into how they can
(35:55):
be interpreted or how they wantto implement them.
And how do they deal withsomebody who's trying to comply
in good faith and doing theright things and this sort of
thing?
So some of the inconsistency inenforcement is because of that
discretion.
And again you have people onboth sides of the equation.
(36:19):
They cop attitudes, they comein and they get upset with the
person on the other side.
And we see that in every aspectof this industry.
And we see that in every aspectof this industry when a young
person gets their job on a yachtand they go into a consulate
asking for a visa, they justexpect them to hand them a piece
(36:43):
of paper so they can go dotheir job.
And they get all these questionsand they don't know how to
respond.
And the purpose of theconsulate staff is to make sure
bad people don't get in ourcountry.
Yeah, right.
And so that's why they ask allthose questions.
(37:03):
And so they get the interviewee, the person seeking these cops,
in attitude like why are youasking me all these questions?
Is the cops?
An attitude Like why are youasking me all these questions?
And so we have to deal with thehuman element in those
transactions between the agencypeople and the industry folks,
(37:25):
and that happens across theboard, no matter what.
Kristina Hebert (37:28):
And I think that that happens 365 days of
the year.
Right, and the association isgood about trying to say look,
we're working with our members,work with us, and I do know that
you've been contacted.
I know that the association'sbeen contacted for some of these
one-off situations.
Right, and I feel like usually,if there's a good dialogue,
there is.
(37:48):
So that should be our lesson.
We all need to communicate, weall need to work together and
you know, we're going to getthrough this election.
Duncan Smith (38:09):
And, yeah, and I think the industry as a whole
has come out with a with a muchbetter, you know image of who
they are, what they're doing,things like blue economy
initiatives and there's a wholething in builders on, you know,
sustainable materials and usingdifferent things and all.
So there's a confluence of someof these ideas that have come
(38:29):
together that I think are verypositive for the industry.
These ideas that have cometogether that I think are very
positive for the industry and,uh, I think that the what, what
most people don't understandabout this industry is really
how big it is and the impactthat it has and the amount of
people that are involved and whoare affected.
(38:51):
So it's not just the guystanding on his boat.
There are going to be 10, 12people behind that whole
operation that benefit from thatactivity.
Kristina Hebert (39:00):
And businesses from there.
Duncan Smith (39:02):
Right.
So I think it's a growingindustry.
It's been growing for years andyears and you know that through
your business and I just don'tsee an end to it.
I think people are looking forthese opportunities to go out
and recreate and you know, it'snot just having wild parties on
(39:25):
a boat, it's actually familytime.
Family time and particularlybecame more noteworthy during
the COVID years, when peoplejust had to be separate and they
needed to get out there andvoting became one of those
mediums to solve that problem.
Kristina Hebert (39:44):
Well, thanks to you, we get to see an industry
continue to grow and we canremove a lot of these obstacles
that could be in the way to thatgrowth.
And thanks to you again, we'llbe able to see those successes
in the future.
Duncan Smith (39:58):
Well, I love this industry and I've been working
into it, as you and I startedthis conversation a very long
time, and it's something that'svery satisfying.
It's something that's verysatisfying, it's exciting and
(40:20):
you got, you know, a lot ofinteresting.
You know dimensions to theindustry, but I think, as a
business and as a future, youknow, it's always going to be
here.
United States is a, you know,it's a country that lives by the
water, absolutely, and so thisis going to go on and we just
need to continue theconversations.
Kristina Hebert (40:37):
Well, thank you for all that you do, and thank
you for being here today at theBoat Show.
Duncan Smith (40:42):
I appreciate it and I look forward to hearing
next year.
Kristina Hebert (40:44):
We're going to catch up again, okay, and find
out how the blue economy builtit.
Duncan Smith (40:48):
Okay, we'll do it, thank you, Duncan, Okay Okay,
we'll do it.
Thank you, Duncan.
Okay Okay.
Thank you Kristen.
Kristina Hebert (40:55):
Thanks everybody.
Welcome to the W Worthway Podcast.
We're here again at the FortLauderdale International Boat
(00:36):
Show here, 2024, 65thanniversary of the Fort
Lauderdale Boat Show, and I'mhere today with my friend,
duncan Smith, who is theWashington representative for
the marine industries and hasworked with us for decades, and
so I have to kick it off.
We're in the, we have theelection on Tuesday.
Tell me your thoughts and thenwe're going to get into all the
issues that we have movingforward.
(00:57):
What do you think's happening?
Duncan Smith (00:59):
Well, I mean it's the country's absolutely split
in half.
Kristina Hebert (01:05):
Agree.
Duncan Smith (01:05):
And I think this everybody's the word is toss up
for this, for this election, andeverybody's, no one knows
everything's within quote,unquote, the margin of error for
the polls, and I think that'sright.
The polls, and I think that'sright.
(01:30):
Uh, I don't know that there'sany silent group out there has
there has been in prior years,like in 16, all these people
came out for trump and they weresurprised, right?
Um, I think both sides.
Uh, I'm, I don't have a, a, tor a list, but what I call
unforced errors.
Ok, they're just making silly,stupid errors.
Kristina Hebert (01:51):
But I agree with you.
Duncan Smith (01:52):
It's like one side does it and then the other side
does it and then the other side, so they're kind of keeping it
even, and it's not intentionalon either side, but for some
reason they've lost thatdiscipline going into this final
, final days of the election.
So, um, I think everybody hasto like, uh, put the coffee on
(02:15):
and uh, stay up late and andlook at the returns.
Uh, you know, the the EastCoast will be an indicator.
Everybody, the ones thateverybody's talking about
Pennsylvania, north Carolina,even Florida, georgia and then
(02:35):
move out to Ohio, michigan,wisconsin.
By the time you get throughthose, you're going to have a
pretty good idea how the rest ofthe country is going to go in.
In my humble opinion, uh,there's some outliers in arizona
and nevada, but beyond thatthere's not a lot of a lot of.
(02:55):
I think there are going to besome surprises, uh, because of
the split in in the electorateand and the unpredictability of,
so it's all going to be aboutturnout and it's and, uh,
there's going to be aninteresting analysis afterward,
I think, by, uh, all of the,everyone, pundits and all that
(03:18):
because of the early voting thisis not your, your grandfather's
, you know election where youwent on the day and you lined up
and you got your sticker, yougot everything.
So I mean, in some places, morethan well above 50% of the
voters in a state have alreadyvoted.
Kristina Hebert (03:39):
I know that we talk about it and, as at our
company, the one thing I want tomake sure is like the boat show
didn't't.
I would say almost all of ushave all early voted because we
didn't want to let the boat showor something else, and then you
get busy and then you're like Idon't have time.
Right, you have to always maketime, so for us I like the early
voting, but I also understandthat that can be a challenge.
Duncan Smith (04:00):
I'm an early voter because I usually have been
traveling on election day, whichI'm an early voter because I
usually have been traveling onelection day, which I'm not
going to do this year.
But so I've already voted, alsoon the first day for early
voting in in person where I'mfrom in DC, and you know I'm not
(04:21):
I'm not a big fan of a long, Iagree.
You know I'm not a big fan of along lead up.
I think it's just it doesn'tgive people enough time to
assimilate and focus.
It just depends on whathappened when they got out of
bed that day.
Kristina Hebert (04:37):
Well, and the other thing is there's so much
more on a ballot than just thepresidential election and I feel
like everything else.
I mean you get bombarded by theads, but you know everybody
else, or the judges, or yourlocal representatives, or the
Senate, or the legislature, andI'm going to segue into that.
What do you think's on tap forthe lame duck session in
(04:57):
Congress?
Is there like an agenda, oneway or the other, of so-and-so
wins?
This is the plan.
If so-and-so wins is the plan.
If so-and-so wins?
This is the plan.
Do you know?
Can you give us the insight?
Duncan Smith (05:07):
well.
The election results willdefinitely affect yeah the final
days of this congress, whichwill be late november and
december what hasn't passed yetwhat hasn't passed yet are the.
The main things are what theycall the defense budget, the
National Defense AuthorizationAct, which has passed every year
(05:31):
for the last 60 some years.
And then they haven't done anyof the appropriation bills yet
for any of the agencies.
So those two things are drivingthe end of the Congress and
everybody's lining up to seewhat things they can add on to
(05:52):
those bills.
Right, separately, there'll besome cats and dogs, you know,
post offices, whatever, sure,but they're not going to,
there's not going to be a lot ofmajor stuff.
That goes on.
Um, this Congress has already,you know, earned the reputation
of a do nothing Congress, and Ithink it's going to continue.
Kristina Hebert (06:13):
Right.
What do you think about thecongressional elections?
Do you think you'll see a shiftin in leadership regardless?
Do we think we'll say, becauseyou're right're right, this
Congress hasn't really?
Duncan Smith (06:25):
performed.
I think the way thepresidential election breaks is
the way House and Senate aregoing to break.
If Republicans turn out andvote, then I think the House
will stay Republican and they'llflip the Senate.
I think the House will stayRepublican and they'll flip the
(06:47):
Senate.
If Kamala wins, then theDemocrats win the presidency,
then you may see the even bothboth houses flip, but it's just
so close, so close, and I thinkit's unpredictable.
If I were to guess, I thinkthat the Senate will flip, yeah
(07:07):
For sure, and I think the Houseis going to continue to be close
.
The problem with an evenlydivided House is that you can't
get anything done, you can't getany consensus and there are
only a few districtscongressional districts across
the country that are reallycompetitive.
(07:30):
All the others are pretty set.
People are set into theirmember.
They like their member, whetheryou like them or not.
If you like AOC in New York,you're going to stay with her.
If you like MTG in Georgia, youshould stay with her, and both
of them are extreme, but that'swhat their constituents like.
Kristina Hebert (07:54):
And that also means then that the committee
memberships don't really changethe committee.
You know, unless the wholeHouse changes or the Senate
changes, the leadership in thosecommittees may or may not
change.
But you're right, we just endup kind of much of the same.
Duncan Smith (08:10):
There are going to be some changes.
Ways and means will change.
They're talking about, like thething that the marine industry
is concerned about in the House.
Kristina Hebert (08:20):
Yeah, let's get into that.
What's the marine industry isworking on?
Duncan Smith (08:22):
Well, the House Transportation and
Infrastructure Committee has aCoast Guard Marine
Transportation Subcommittee.
That's where most of the marineindustry legislative issues are
.
That committee will have atleast a change on the Republican
side the senior one, I thinkWe'll have at least a change on
(08:44):
the Republican side the seniorone, I think.
Ok, because they have theseterm limits for holding on to
the chairmanships and that's dueto change.
Whether there's a waiver or not, we'll see.
But the committee itself willbe pretty stable in terms of
membership, in terms of theupper part of it, that you're
(09:05):
not going see a lot of change.
You're not gonna see a lot ofchange.
Kristina Hebert (09:08):
And for people listening we may be sounding
very textbook, like here's acommittee and here's a
representative and the election,but I think for people to
understand it can be a big dealwhen committee members change
because then they have a wholenew jurisdiction of what their
focus is when you have tore-educate them on the industry
and our industry is tough toeducate legislators on Sometimes
(09:31):
, whether it's Republican orDemocrat sometimes they see big
boats.
They think oh geez, these arejust rich people looking for big
tax breaks and there's really amisunderstanding that it's
about jobs, that it's aboutemployees, that it's about small
businesses and all of thoseissues.
So sometimes we end up with amountain to climb of
re-education.
So that sounds good that atleast we'll be able to keep some
(09:52):
of the momentum we've beenworking with.
Duncan Smith (09:54):
That's the biggest hurdle I have to get over in
representing the Marine IndustryAssociation is the perception
of it's just a bunch of fat catpeople that have big yachts when
it's the supply side and thethe lack of understanding of
(10:15):
what how much boats you know dofor the economy Absolutely and
spin off.
I was on a yacht yesterday.
Uh, they uh have a, a, uh anexpenditure that they know every
year uh supports 60 families.
Wow, one yacht, one yacht anduh, it's an American that owns
(10:39):
it.
It's not like it's a foreign,it's a foreign flag, but it's
not like foreigners, right, andpeople don't understand the
economic engines that boats areRight.
They just don't understand it.
And that's the biggest hurdlewe climb all the time and we
have to repeat it.
Kristina Hebert (10:59):
Over and over again.
I know and.
I know you've helped us do that, christy, but it's a lot of
work and a lot of people don'treally understand all of that
that goes into it.
Yeah.
Duncan Smith (11:11):
Right and they don't understand, when they make
adjustments, the implicationthat you can have unintended
consequences.
Sure, that ripple through theindustry.
That cause you, that cause alot of loss of economic capacity
.
Kristina Hebert (11:28):
So give me an example of that an unintended
consequence of a piece ofregulatory or legislation that
went through.
Duncan Smith (11:35):
Well, we have one now.
Even yachts have to have vesselresponse plans.
And what is that For respondingto an oil spill?
Okay, sure, and there's a lotof confusion as to how that
should be structured in a plan.
There are two componentsbasically.
(11:56):
One is for oil spill response,which is when the oil hits the
water, and then there's one onsalvage and marine firefighting.
Okay, so if there's a fire orsure, a ship or boat goes to
ground, that's a whole differentfunction, and right now there's
(12:17):
a lot of confusion aboutmerging those two concepts and
the requirements.
We have some concerns in theindustry about what we call
double counting, because youwant to have enough assets for
both functions.
But if you start merging themand conflating them or
commingling them, then thevendors for those may say, well,
(12:42):
we're going to use the sameboat for both things, or the
same equipment, and then when anincident actually occurs, many
times, particularly the moredramatic ones, you have both
functions going on at the sametime and so you don't want to
have them, like moving equipmentback and forth.
You want to have enough there.
So that's one of them, and ittells you the type of things
(13:06):
that sometimes members overreact, saying, well, what's the
problem?
Right.
Kristina Hebert (13:11):
They don't understand the impacts, and you
know I'm a big believer.
I also think, in addition to ourindustry maybe getting a bad
name, I feel like lobbying andrepresentation in Washington at
times can get a bad name.
They say you know big interests,you know only super
corporations have lobbyists andyou know wanting to change and
(13:35):
manipulate the legislature.
But I think what people don'tunderstand is legislature and
having that is so important tohave a representative like
yourself who's constantlykeeping these legislators in the
know about our industry,whether you're a Democrat,
whether you're Republican, onthe right committees so that
when and or if there's an issuethat we don't have to start
(13:55):
educating them on our industry.
They know the importance, theyknow the impacts to their
constituency and they know thatthis industry needs to be
protected.
And I have to say that, whetherI've met with a Democrat or a
Republican, once you spend thattime and educate their
legislative assistant, theirlegislative director, their
chief of staff, I have to saywe've had been very fortunate to
(14:18):
have legislators on both sidesof the aisle, even amidst all of
this craziness going on.
And I'm going to let you talkabout the blue economy.
Is that what it's called comingup?
Duncan Smith (14:28):
Yes.
Kristina Hebert (14:29):
That, once educated, I will say legislators
tend to put the politics asideand listen to the industry when
you can come up with.
You know those facts.
So I think I commend you forwhat you do, but people don't
value that all the time and theythink that you know.
Now I have an issue.
Now I need to go get a lobbyist.
No, you need to have one allthe time representing you.
Duncan Smith (14:49):
Well, that's the thing, and and uh, what is is
also a misunderstanding, is thatnot everybody has a lobbyist,
but all different points of viewand different types of
organizations have lobbyists.
Yes, girl Scouts have alobbyist.
Yes, the Catholic Church has alobbyist, you know.
General Motors has a lobbyist,you know.
Kristina Hebert (15:13):
So it's not one big thing, just for tobacco or
for you know right, or richpeople Big corporations that
sort of thing, although theyhave them.
Duncan Smith (15:24):
But it's a very diverse and very scattered, you
know, kind of industry.
And you know everybody doesn'tlike the other guy's lobbyists
but they like their own.
Kristina Hebert (15:37):
Absolutely.
Duncan Smith (15:39):
That's a good one.
Kristina Hebert (15:39):
You're right Say that again.
Duncan Smith (15:42):
It's true.
Well, yeah, I mean, when youwant your, your representative,
(16:08):
to do a good job, think aboutsomething differently, then you
know that's when you know alobbyist can be very helpful.
Some people describe lobbyingas we're in the education
business.
Kristina Hebert (16:17):
I think that's a very accurate statement.
Duncan Smith (16:19):
Not just the influence business.
Kristina Hebert (16:21):
No, but yeah.
But in order to influence, youhave to educate people on the
topic, otherwise you can'tconvince somebody that this is
what needs to be done.
So, and there's so much workthat goes into that the
background, the research, theeconomic impact studies so let's
segue into what's one of thelatest issues that you're
(16:42):
working on for the industry.
Duncan Smith (16:43):
Well, the industry , the Marine Industry
Association of South Florida,has been very supportive of what
is a growing interest, of whatis called the blue economy.
And no, it's not a democraticthing, it's about the water.
It's not a democratic thing.
It's about the water and it'sabout having it's got an
(17:04):
environmental aspect to it.
People going boating don't wantto.
You know, drag their boats anddrive them through a bunch of
junk.
Kristina Hebert (17:15):
No.
Duncan Smith (17:17):
And they don't want pollution and stuff.
So there's a naturalpartnership between clean water
and boating.
Kristina Hebert (17:25):
Okay.
Duncan Smith (17:25):
And also when boating.
You know, for years the bigthing was like the relationship
between boating and fishing.
Kristina Hebert (17:33):
Sure.
Duncan Smith (17:34):
And so you need clean water for better fish and
all this sort of thing.
So there's a lot of effort onthe part of the marine industry
association, not only southflorida but across the country,
but particularly south florida,that is promoting, you know,
best practices for all kinds ofactivities that affect the water
(17:57):
.
So, uh, structures built,structures that touch the water.
Can we have a better concreteSure?
Can we build one that is?
Kristina Hebert (18:10):
sustainable.
Duncan Smith (18:17):
For seawalls and promote the sea life and the
flora and fauna that are, youknow, under the water that
everybody needs to have thisbetter environment to boat in,
and so there's an effort thereto.
(18:38):
And South Florida has a numberof universities, colleges, that
do a lot of research, and foryears they did all this research
.
They get a grant, finish theresearch, do their report, put
it on the shelf, and they didn'ttalk to each other.
So one university did one thing, another university.
(18:59):
So what the Marine IndustryAssociation is trying to do is
create this hub where all thoseideas come together and you
share information and then youthen can promote it so that it
is implemented and put out intosmall business or actual
practice, rather than just anice academic, you know, kind of
(19:22):
exercise.
So, um, there's a, there's.
That's one of the efforts thatwe're going to be working on.
Kristina Hebert (19:28):
So why would a legislator oppose this?
What?
What's the opposition'sposition?
Is there one, or is it justeducate?
Duncan Smith (19:36):
Well, well, there's definitely the educate
side.
Why would a legislator there'ssome some may associate it with
being, you know, strictly anenvironmental thing of
preventing, you know, peopleenjoying the water?
Because you know setting offareas and that sort of thing
(20:05):
sort of thing.
But you know, most legislators,when they understand what's
going on, embrace it.
Good, and but there's a there'salso the financial side of it.
How do you pay for thatactivity?
And what happens with a lot ofthese studies and startups that
do this stuff is that they raisea little bit of money and then
they stop.
You do your report, if you havea university project or you do
(20:28):
a startup and you get going andthen you hit a wall because you
can't go beyond it.
So a lot of it is how do youget this funded Right?
And a lot of effort gets putinto getting, you know, federal
dollars, appropriation dollars,our taxes, to pay for these
(20:50):
things.
And there are people who arevery fiscally conservative that
just say, well, you know, whyare we spending money on this
kind of project or that kind ofproject?
Right, and they have adifferent priority.
Kristina Hebert (21:03):
Well, and they may be on a committee where
they're not going to see howthis benefits their constituents
, but perhaps they're anappropriator, that is, you know,
responsible for allocatingthose funds.
Duncan Smith (21:13):
Very much so, and part of the analysis we do for
looking at how to get themessage out for South Florida
and for the Marine IndustryAssociation is to do an analysis
of those member interests, andso we identify those members who
would be advocates for us inwhat we're doing.
You know somebody thatrepresents you know a farm in
(21:38):
the middle of Iowa or Kansas orsomething may not want to
support you know funding for aseawall in South Florida even
though it'll help.
But so there's there's.
There's those competingpriorities that go on.
They have their own.
that push and how to spend thefederal dollars and how to spend
(21:59):
the federal dollars.
And then the increasingaccumulation of the federal debt
.
You know the deficit.
Kristina Hebert (22:10):
Yeah.
Duncan Smith (22:11):
You know, everybody's always trying to
find a way to cut back, andevery time you cut back a
program, people get used to them.
Kristina Hebert (22:20):
And then you know Well, and how could you not
?
When you see the size of thedebt, Everybody would say
something needs to be cut back.
But not mine Right, Not myissue.
Duncan Smith (22:26):
Right.
So the you know not in mybackyard.
You know the NIMBY thing, soyou know all of those dynamics
come together when you're tryingto get members of Congress in
both houses, both the Senate andthe House, to advance.
(22:47):
You know an idea or a programor legislation that will assist
the industry.
We're watching legislation likethe in the Small Business
Administration, their programsto assist small business people
(23:09):
who are affected by storms,hurricanes and recovery, and
this or so.
Are there small businesses inthe marine industry?
Absolutely Mostly right.
So we, you know we're watchingfor things like that also.
So something that might at firstbe, you know, something
(23:31):
completely outside the area ofmarine industry you know is
really something that's central,and the marine industry can be
a participant in advancingsomething that's positive for
them.
Kristina Hebert (23:44):
Well, one thing I know that you've been very
key in successfully advancing isthe communication between
agencies.
Fully advancing is thecommunication between agencies.
Yesterday I sat and watched apanel that you were moderating
that had the US Coast Guard andCustoms and Border Protection.
Talk to me about that and Iwill tell you that I personally
(24:04):
have watched that evolve.
We used to be able to get oneperson from the Coast Guard and
maybe somebody from CBP whowould come and they would be
like why is it you want me totalk to your captains?
And, oh my gosh, am I going toget ambushed to a panel
yesterday that had 12, 15officers representing all
different segments within theiragency.
So talk to me about why thatpanel and how that's progressed
(24:27):
and how effective that is.
Duncan Smith (24:29):
This is one of the very success stories of the
Marine Industry Association atthe Boat Show.
Yes, Is that everybody's herein the industry boat captains,
crew, small business owners likeyou and others and we've
brought together these agenciesthat regulate the boating
(24:52):
industry and by regulate.
Kristina Hebert (24:54):
What do you mean?
Duncan Smith (24:55):
Well, it's like the boating industry.
And by regulate, what do youmean?
Well, it's like the oversightof things.
So, coast Guard, cbp for thecrews and cruising licenses and
things like that.
Kristina Hebert (25:05):
So when they want to come here, the boats are
trying to come in.
Duncan Smith (25:08):
Right.
So and then the other part onthis.
Well, the panel has been verysuccessful over the years and it
has built up and I'm glad youyou notice that, whereas now
they say you know we'll be backnext year.
Kristina Hebert (25:27):
Exactly.
I noticed that.
Duncan Smith (25:28):
Because we have built up this forum for
exchanging ideas.
People have these experienceswith agencies.
They get very frustrated.
It may be a one-off thing, itmay be a consistent thing, it
may be a geographic thing, wherein one area of the country they
(25:50):
get treated differently thananother area by the same agency
and this is a sounding board sothey can like sound off, have
people respond and have theagencies try to explain why.
That is why that occurs.
Kristina Hebert (26:06):
And what we're talking about is trying to come
up with a way to allow theseforeign flag boats to come into
the United States without theimpedance of these agencies, and
a lot of what I've noticed ispeople just not understanding
the process, blaming the agencyfor following the rules.
And yet the boat was notfollowing the rules.
But I think this opencommunication has helped
(26:28):
everybody.
Duncan Smith (26:28):
Yes, yeah, and well, a couple of things.
It's not not only just foreignflag, but it's also the domestic
users of US flag.
There are a lot of frustrationI have in in this job that I
(27:00):
have in representing I haven't,there hasn't been an agency in
Washington DC and all thealphabets that I haven't been
there.
So so we talk about Coast Guard, which which is very logical.
They're on the water Safety,you know safety of life and
property and all that Search andrescue, whatever CBP logical.
(27:23):
You've got crews coming on, youhave the boats that need
cruising licenses and you havevisas being checked, that sort
of thing.
But beyond that the StateDepartment, they're the ones who
issue visas.
Okay, it's CBP, you check someas you come in.
So if there's a visa, problemMultiple layers Okay.
So you may have a problemgetting the visa in the first
(27:44):
place for the crew that you wanton your vessel, and we've been
to EPA for engine emission rules.
We've been to EPA for engineemission rules.
We've had the latest one thatwe're dealing with, if you don't
mind me.
Kristina Hebert (27:57):
Oh, that's why we're here.
Duncan Smith (27:59):
You know talking trash.
Yeah, let's talk trash Is theinternational regulation of
garbage, and this is like whenyou go on your vacation to
Europe, you come back and yougot the apple that you took, you
know, on the plane and you gotto throw it in the bin when you
go back, when boats come in tothe US waters, they have all of
(28:23):
these organic things on boardfood, sure, and it's some of
it's frozen, some of it's drystores, some of it's fresh
fruits, whatever.
And so the Department ofAgriculture is concerned about
(28:46):
the different things that canhappen, like right now they're
all about the swine flu, okay,coming in fruit flies.
Kristina Hebert (28:59):
You know what they, what they can because this
produce or these provisionsthat they were receiving from
other ports, they bring it inand they're afraid that that's
going to infect the us market.
Duncan Smith (29:10):
So okay so.
So there's a legitimate concernthere.
You know, boats come in at allpoints, sure, all different
marinas all up and down thecoast.
It hasn't been a protocol inplace to really have them
(29:33):
effectively handle those thingsthat are on board, that need to
be regulated, and so we're goingthrough a process now of
identifying how to do that andwhat the protocols will be.
When you come in, do you throweverything out?
Are there things you can save,and this sort of thing?
(29:56):
These protocols have beenworked out with things like
cruise ships, and they've beenworked out.
Kristina Hebert (30:01):
That was what I was going to ask how does a
cruise ship you know Well,there's a.
They've got protocol.
Duncan Smith (30:07):
But it's a big thing.
And then airplanes, so not onlyjust the regular liners that go
back and forth, but privateaircraft that come in and out.
There's an extensive programfor private aircraft that all
the general aviation, and theyhave protocol where they have
bins, they throw the, but theydon't have, you know, big
(30:28):
reefers and refrigerators likeyachts do.
So we've looked at this problemand the Department of
Agriculture actually has aninitiative right now to reach
out to the marine industry todevelop things that make sense.
Kristina Hebert (30:46):
Okay.
Duncan Smith (30:47):
And so it's very encouraging.
Kristina Hebert (30:48):
Which is good, because lots of times they end
up making a rule that then wehave an issue with and we need
clarity, so this is very goodnews.
Duncan Smith (30:57):
And so, instead of some CBP person jumping on your
boat and saying, throw all thatstuff out, you're now going to
have an exempt list so you knowwhat you can keep and not keep,
you know how to store stuff andall of that.
You know how to store stuff andall of that, and so we're going
through those processes to getthat put into place, and it's an
(31:20):
incremental thing.
We're going to start bypiggybacking on the general
aviation and their lists and allthat because it's already done,
sure, so let's do that.
And then we're going to add onand add things that work for the
marine industry, and so we'revery encouraged by it.
It's a very positiverelationship, and the biggest
(31:55):
thing we have to overcome as Iheard, because we had them on
the panel that you're talkingabout this week is what do you
do when a boat comes into amarina, because it's a single
point source of you know, uh,you know this contamination that
can occur.
Uh, if you call a local haulerto come in and take your garbage
out, uh, in a, in a controlledcircumstance.
It's very expensive, and so weneed to come up with some better
(32:19):
ways in which to handle thoseonboard materials and products
so that it can be done in aneconomic way, but also in a
responsible way, right?
So we're talking about maybehaving a you know a bin where
there's lucky, you do the, the,the qr code, scan it, open it up
(32:44):
, throw your stuff in and itmakes a notation or whatever you
put it in your log and all thissort of thing.
All of these, particularly thelarger boats, have very, very
extensive inventories.
Every time they take a bottleof ketchup off the shelf, out of
the out of the pantry orwhatever, and start to use it,
they log it and uh, as well astheir frozen foods and all that
(33:08):
kind of stuff.
So there's, there's some basisthere for coming up with a
system and we just have to getget it nailed down so that we
have confidence that it'll work.
And uh, I think in 90s, youknow high 90 percent, you know
it'll always work.
Kristina Hebert (33:28):
Uh, you know you're always going to have bad
actors, but but um, but I thinkthe chandleries and some of
those provisioning companies canalso be supportive, because
they're the ones providing thegoods to these boats in many
other ports of calls notnecessarily here Right and I
know a lot of them are alreadydealing with some sustainability
issues and things that they'retrying to get and they have a
(33:49):
lot of influence.
So those are members of theassociation, so I'm sure that
that'll be helpful too.
Duncan Smith (33:55):
Yeah, we need.
The biggest comment was we needthe marinas to get engaged,
because that's the point atwhich the boat comes in and you
have this interface between theboat coming into the country and
the effect of whatever theyhave on board in the country,
and so will they have the bins,will they have the people that
(34:19):
are qualified to take care ofall that.
So there's a little work leftto be done, and they talked
yesterday about and this wasfrom the agency we want to put
an industry advisory grouptogether to help us.
There we go.
So it's one of the morepositive regulatory things that
(34:43):
we've done in a long, long time.
It's not confrontational and sobe very helpful.
Kristina Hebert (34:50):
Well, that's good, that is good news.
But it's also probably becauseof all the relationships and I
believe that over the decades,the Marine industry, through
people like yourself, has provento be a worthy entity of
keeping our word.
We want to be compliant, wewant to, we want to understand
regulations.
We don't want to beover-regulated, but we
understand.
I know that we could even goback to 9-11 and pre-homeland
(35:13):
security.
You know the yachting industrygot caught up in a lot of
unintended consequences, but Ithink the reason we've been able
to navigate through that isbecause we've all wanted to be
compliant.
We just all want to also sit atthe table and kind of help have
the discussion or be a part ofthe discussion about how we're
going to be regulated.
Duncan Smith (35:31):
That's exactly right, and one of the other
things that came out and italways comes out at these panels
is the agency.
The regulations are theregulations.
We just you know that's what wehave to enforce.
But what is behind all thoseregulations also is that there's
a lot of discretion that theagencies have into how they can
(35:55):
be interpreted or how they wantto implement them.
And how do they deal withsomebody who's trying to comply
in good faith and doing theright things and this sort of
thing?
So some of the inconsistency inenforcement is because of that
discretion.
And again you have people onboth sides of the equation.
(36:19):
They cop attitudes, they comein and they get upset with the
person on the other side.
And we see that in every aspectof this industry.
And we see that in every aspectof this industry when a young
person gets their job on a yachtand they go into a consulate
asking for a visa, they justexpect them to hand them a piece
(36:43):
of paper so they can go dotheir job.
And they get all these questionsand they don't know how to
respond.
And the purpose of theconsulate staff is to make sure
bad people don't get in ourcountry.
Yeah, right.
And so that's why they ask allthose questions.
(37:03):
And so they get the interviewee, the person seeking these cops,
in attitude like why are youasking me all these questions?
Is the cops?
An attitude Like why are youasking me all these questions?
And so we have to deal with thehuman element in those
transactions between the agencypeople and the industry folks,
(37:25):
and that happens across theboard, no matter what.
Kristina Hebert (37:28):
And I think that that happens 365 days of
the year.
Right, and the association isgood about trying to say look,
we're working with our members,work with us, and I do know that
you've been contacted.
I know that the association'sbeen contacted for some of these
one-off situations.
Right, and I feel like usually,if there's a good dialogue,
there is.
(37:48):
So that should be our lesson.
We all need to communicate, weall need to work together and
you know, we're going to getthrough this election.
Duncan Smith (38:09):
And, yeah, and I think the industry as a whole
has come out with a with a muchbetter, you know image of who
they are, what they're doing,things like blue economy
initiatives and there's a wholething in builders on, you know,
sustainable materials and usingdifferent things and all.
So there's a confluence of someof these ideas that have come
(38:29):
together that I think are verypositive for the industry.
These ideas that have cometogether that I think are very
positive for the industry and,uh, I think that the what, what
most people don't understandabout this industry is really
how big it is and the impactthat it has and the amount of
people that are involved and whoare affected.
(38:51):
So it's not just the guystanding on his boat.
There are going to be 10, 12people behind that whole
operation that benefit from thatactivity.
Kristina Hebert (39:00):
And businesses from there.
Duncan Smith (39:02):
Right.
So I think it's a growingindustry.
It's been growing for years andyears and you know that through
your business and I just don'tsee an end to it.
I think people are looking forthese opportunities to go out
and recreate and you know, it'snot just having wild parties on
(39:25):
a boat, it's actually familytime.
Family time and particularlybecame more noteworthy during
the COVID years, when peoplejust had to be separate and they
needed to get out there andvoting became one of those
mediums to solve that problem.
Kristina Hebert (39:44):
Well, thanks to you, we get to see an industry
continue to grow and we canremove a lot of these obstacles
that could be in the way to thatgrowth.
And thanks to you again, we'llbe able to see those successes
in the future.
Duncan Smith (39:58):
Well, I love this industry and I've been working
into it, as you and I startedthis conversation a very long
time, and it's something that'svery satisfying.
It's something that's verysatisfying, it's exciting and
(40:20):
you got, you know, a lot ofinteresting.
You know dimensions to theindustry, but I think, as a
business and as a future, youknow, it's always going to be
here.
United States is a, you know,it's a country that lives by the
water, absolutely, and so thisis going to go on and we just
need to continue theconversations.
Kristina Hebert (40:37):
Well, thank you for all that you do, and thank
you for being here today at theBoat Show.
Duncan Smith (40:42):
I appreciate it and I look forward to hearing
next year.
Kristina Hebert (40:44):
We're going to catch up again, okay, and find
out how the blue economy builtit.
Duncan Smith (40:48):
Okay, we'll do it, thank you, Duncan, Okay Okay,
we'll do it.
Thank you, Duncan.
Okay Okay.
Thank you Kristen.
Kristina Hebert (40:55):
Thanks everybody.
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