June 13, 2025 • 48 mins
"Chaos creates opportunity," says maritime attorney Michelle Otero Valdes in this eye-opening conversation about how shifting tariffs are transforming yacht ownership. While many view changing regulations with dread, Michelle reveals why American yacht owners may actually benefit from these developments.
We dive deep into the practical reality of today's maritime landscape, exploring how basic yacht import duties have jumped from 1.5% to 10%, with vessels from certain countries facing potentially much steeper rates. This shift has created an unexpected windfall for owners of U.S.-flagged vessels, which have suddenly become more valuable assets in the marketplace. For buyers, previously duty-paid vessels now represent an attractive alternative to importing foreign-built yachts.
The conversation extends beyond tariffs to examine how U.S. Customs and Border Protection is tightening enforcement of cruising permits and B-1/B2 visa regulations for foreign crew. Michelle clarifies common misconceptions, explaining exactly what foreign crew can and cannot do while in U.S. waters. Her practical insights help vessel owners and operators navigate these increasingly complex regulations without unnecessary fear or confusion.
Perhaps most fascinating is our exploration of yacht management challenges. Michelle shares stories of successful business owners who apply rigorous professional standards to their companies but fail to bring that same approach to their multi-million dollar vessels. We discuss emerging solutions, including specialized Electro-Technical Officers who bridge the gap between owners, management companies, and crew.
The maritime industry thrives on collaboration and professionalism, values that Michelle embodies throughout our conversation. Whether you're a current vessel owner, considering your first yacht purchase, or a marine industry professional, this discussion offers an essential perspective on navigating today's changing waters.
For further information, kindly follow the link below.
https://www.michelleoterovaldes.com/
Wards Marine Electric
https://www.wardsmarine.com/
Wards Way YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@WardsWay75
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristina Hebert (00:00):
Welcome to the Season 3 Wards Way podcast,
where we're covering the hotlegislative topics of 2025.
From tariffs to tunnels andbridges, from foreign trade
zones to workers' compensation,to the Fort Lauderdale
International Boat Show, to theMarine Research Hub, industry
(00:22):
experts and clarification on theB-11, b2 visas.
Join us as we celebrate 75years in business and we're just
getting started.
Welcome to season three.
Today I am here with MichelleOtero-Valdez of the Michelle
Otero-Valdez Maritime Law Firm.
Very good, and I'm honoredbecause you are the first Latino
(00:46):
maritime lawyer ever registeredwith the Florida Bar.
Well, let me correct that justa little bit.
Michelle Otero Valdes (00:54):
I mean first board certified Latina in
Admiralty Maritime Law inFlorida.
Okay, or I think probablyanywhere that sounds even better
.
Kristina Hebert (01:03):
Well, congratulations on that.
And I'm lucky to have you heretoday and we're going to talk
about tariffs.
And the cool part was I know foranybody who thinks that tariffs
are a bad topic I really youand I had the opportunity we'll
give a shout out to professionalwomen in yachting.
You and I had an opportunity tomeet on that panel and I just
really liked your take ontariffs.
(01:24):
You were the first personthat's not like oh my God, this
is terrible.
You were like it's a little bitof a challenge to keep up with
it and it's reading executiveorders every day and
understanding them andinterpreting them and how they
change.
But talk about it.
Give me your take on it, whichcompletely impressed me.
Michelle Otero Valdes (01:43):
So no, pressure, great, no pressure.
Okay, your take on it, whichcompletely impressed me.
So, no pressure, great, nopressure.
Um, what I would say and I meanthis is a personal belief of
mine that, um, chaos createsopportunity.
Absolutely, I love that, right.
So, because of the chaos we'reseeing, if we take aside what's
happening in the news, which Itry not to watch, what we're
(02:06):
seeing is almost a daily changein the tariffs.
But I think, if everyone justcalms down for a minute and has
a look at what are tariffsintended to do, okay, right, so
a tariff, the way I get whatPresident Trump is trying to do
(02:27):
no politics here but is thisidea of well, the US has been
paying X in tariffs, so we'regoing to charge you a reciprocal
tariff for that same thing,whatever the widget is.
Tariff for that same thing,whatever the widget is right, in
the hopes that that governmentas I understand what he's saying
(02:56):
, that government will come tothe negotiating table to try and
lower their tariff so that wecan say, okay, yeah, let's say
2% or whatever the number isright.
I think that's what.
At least that's what he'sexpressed his goal in a nutshell
Sure To be.
Kristina Hebert (03:10):
And I understand it, the same Right,
okay, great, yeah, so that'shelpful.
Michelle Otero Valdes (03:13):
Okay, so, cause I try not to watch too
much news, uh, so fast forward.
So the widget is coming in andthe.
So the widget is coming in andthe US government will charge
now that for yachts it was 1.5%from most countries not every
country, and we'll get into thatin a minute 1.5% of the total,
(03:36):
of the total value of the vessel.
So you had a vessel being builtin, say, the Netherlands, sure,
and you wanted to bring it into the US, for whatever reason
it could be, because you want tohave it US flag, because you're
(03:58):
a US owner, you would have topay 1.5% duty before that vessel
would be released to the owner,if it is actually brought in,
right?
Kristina Hebert (04:10):
Into US Commerce Correct.
Michelle Otero Valdes (04:12):
Okay, okay.
Let's distinguish that frommost foreign flag vessels that
come in on, say, a cruisingpermit Okay, not for sale, not
for sale, not for sale.
They could toodle about in theus, but then they have to leave
and be gone right for a certainperiod of time before they can
(04:33):
get another cruising permit.
Yep and toodle back into the us, right?
So we're not talking aboutthose, okay, okay.
Where we talk about those is ifthey want to bring in one of
those and a US owner is a realpatriot, I mean, I get that.
Kristina Hebert (04:51):
Yeah, I get that US Yep.
Michelle Otero Valdes (04:54):
A US citizen said or maybe they do a
lot of business with thegovernment, okay, and they don't
feel comfortable having a USSorry, a foreign flag vessel
that maybe they will bring thatclient aboard.
So what do they do?
They say, look, I want to bringin my vessel, I want to go
ahead and re-flag US, and then Ihave to inform them for you to
(05:19):
do that.
That is now importing thevessel in the US, which means
you have to pay duty.
Well, what's that?
And then, when you know so,before it was 1.5%, so you could
do the math there.
Looking at it today, dependingon the country it's coming from,
it's not 1.5 anymore.
(05:39):
Right, we're talking now theseare delayed to like May 4th, I
think, is the latest date.
They're talking China tariffs,of being Chinese tariffs being
one hundred and forty fivepercent.
So I don't think any saneperson would ever pay one
hundred and forty five percentduty on, say, a Chinese built
(06:01):
vessel, on, say, a Chinese-builtvessel.
Okay, I don't think that'sultimately going to happen, but
right now, as a result ofTrump's first term, those
vessels were already paying ahigher duty.
They were already paying 26.5%,which was the 1.5 for yachts
(06:22):
Plus.
Remember he slapped that 25%duty during his first term?
Okay, okay, so I don't seenecessarily the Chinese tariffs
going below what I call thatminimum, which was the 26.5.
Okay, all right.
So what does that all mean?
Kristina Hebert (06:44):
right Now that I've given you kind of like the
frame, so we have this scenarioand, by the way, most yacht
owners are american, so yourscenario is not that far off.
It's an american trying to buya boat right and you're in your
example.
He's buying one from thenetherlands right she is buying
one there you go you know, girl,and I have a few of those, and
what happens?
(07:04):
So there's your scenario.
Now they were at 26.5%.
Michelle Otero Valdes (07:08):
Right, so right now, today, that duty is.
There's a 10% minimum tariffthat President Trump is looking
to impose Okay, trump is lookingto impose.
Okay, so that vessel that usedto pay 1.5% duty would be paying
(07:40):
10% if they were to buy avessel in the Netherlands and
want to actually bring it in,import wise, to the US because
they want to reflag US.
Okay, I don't see a lot ofowners doing that.
They will start to think alittle smarter, and one way of
thinking smarter is now allthose US flag already US flag
vessels that may be either USbuilt or even foreign built now
(08:03):
become a little more valuable.
So what does that do for thatmarket?
It increases the value of thosevessels because now they're
already duty paid right.
There's a piece of paper thatshows that that vessel was duty
paid because that was the onlyway they were going to get a US
flag right.
(08:24):
Right if they're for, if theywere built for and built right.
So there is an opportunitythere, because if we see a
situation now where owners aregiven all of this information,
they're looking at this going.
Well, why don't I just buy avessel that's already US built?
(08:46):
And I'm starting to see that alittle bit, not too much,
because I think people aretaking a wait and see attitude
right now, unfortunately.
I think that if theadministration is a little
clearer on what they're lookingto do there, that will give you
(09:07):
know, even if it's just rip offthe bandaid and it's going to be
X, but I you know, I think theadministration is seeing what's
happening with the uncertaintyright.
The markets are going a littleberserk right now and I think he
needs to kind of calm themarkets.
I mean, that's a differentargument, a different thing to
(09:27):
think about, but I think, oncethings calm down, if in fact we
are looking at higher tariffsand I think for certain
countries we will that poses awell, it poses a challenge for
yacht brokers, because they theymay be, they may have their
(09:52):
preferred builder right.
Kristina Hebert (09:56):
These yacht brokers have their little
builders that they've Well, it'sthe boats they know the most,
or the?
Michelle Otero Valdes (10:01):
boats.
They're most Formedrelationships with the boats
they know the most, or the fourrelationships with um.
We might see a scenario whereus owners just say you know what
?
I'm just gonna go foreign anddeal with the uh cruising permit
issue.
The cruising permit issue hasbecome a moving target.
(10:22):
Even before the trumpadministration it was a bit of a
moving target.
We see cbp taking a harsherview.
I should say a harsher view.
That's.
That's unfair.
They're taking a stricter.
They're actually enforcing thelaws that were already in place
(10:42):
with the crew.
Mm-hmm.
Right Crew are not going to beallowed to do refits.
They were never allowed to dothat under the B-1, b-2 visa.
Kristina Hebert (10:53):
But now let's clarify that.
Okay, because they can performduties that they were performing
as crew, correct, correct.
They just cannot perform workas the contractors would do.
That would be outside of theircrew type work, which is what
they shouldn't be doing anyway.
Michelle Otero Valdes (11:12):
Correct.
So now that's been.
They're enforcing that better,and there's a lot of ways to
enforce it better, right?
Everyone is on social media.
Most of these crew are youngerpeople.
They tend to put a lot of dumbstuff out there and that's
(11:35):
getting them in trouble, right?
Another issue is that they'reoverstaying the B1, b2.
Let's say, they finish theirjob for the season and now
they're looking to get onanother vessel, but they're
staying here.
They're not going to home to dothat.
Kristina Hebert (11:54):
And my understanding is CBP is okay If
they look for a job.
They just can't earn moneywhile they look for a job,
correct, right.
So as long as you had enoughpocket cash to stay here and
right and look and live and notearn any money while you're here
doing that, that's okay.
But that's not what washappening, which correct the day
worker issue was coming up,correct, right, okay, right, so,
(12:18):
um, but we don't want to sendout a message that says crew
can't come here to do refits.
No, absolutely not.
They need to come here.
They either need to arrive withthe boat foreign or leave with
the boat foreign Correct andthen perform duties that they
would do within their scope.
Michelle Otero Valde (12:34):
Capacities and scope.
Okay, correct, if they weredoing if they were doing If the
chef is cooking.
Kristina Hebert (12:40):
Fine, right, the chef is cooking.
Michelle Otero Valdes (12:42):
If they were doing basic engine work
Changing filters and they're anengineer, perfectly fine.
Exactly, breaking down anengine and doing all Right.
Generally, not with generallywithin their scope of work.
Kristina Hebert (12:57):
Right, right, no, absolutely Agree Right.
Michelle Otero Valdes (13:00):
Right, okay, so little things like that
, so we're seeing the shift withCBP.
Kristina Hebert (13:03):
Yeah Right, okay, so little things like that
.
So we're seeing the shift withCBP kind of enforcing more.
You're saying.
Michelle Otero Valdes (13:06):
Yes, we're seeing the shift in CBP,
the cruising license.
The cruising license is gettingstricter.
They're really holding to thedays that you have to be out.
I want to say it's 15 days.
Right, I'm now going based onbasic memory, but you know, it's
not's not okay, let's turnaround.
(13:27):
Today and I went out to biminifor the day right no, they're,
they're not.
No, we're not doing that.
So, um, we're seeing closings.
We're seeing more closingswhere we're going out foreign
and then immediately calling ata foreign jurisdiction ie like
(13:48):
Bimini for the purposes ofrestarting that clock with the
new owner after we've closed, tothen come back in and then they
have that full amount of time,rather than coming in and then
scrambling.
Kristina Hebert (14:05):
But there's still so many ways that these
boats can come here because wedon't want to have a luxury tax
mentality where we don't wantthe boats here we were all
around.
I know we were all aroundduring that, we were here during
that.
I know I was in business duringthat and that was horrible.
That was targeted and I think Ikind of brought that up before
to people that that was targetednot necessarily in our industry
(14:29):
, but we were a big part of thatthat was going after people
with money and luxury items.
This is.
It seems like there's a waythat, as an industry, you know
if an owner if it's still a usowner, they could still buy the
boat.
They can still come in under acruising permit.
They can still absolutely comehere and do a refit with a
foreign crew.
(14:49):
We're not preventing anybodyfrom doing anything.
These are just furtherobstacles that people need to
work with a maritime firm.
Michelle Otero Valdes (14:56):
You know, I don't want to say obstacles.
What I'd say is that and wediscussed this at our panel last
time.
This whole idea ofprofessionalism and knowing what
you're doing Good segue, let'sdo that.
Right and knowing what you'redoing.
And if you don't know, as anowner or as a yacht manager, you
(15:18):
ask and you ask a professional.
I mean, it reminds me of whenyou've got people that come on
board that aren't specialists.
Right, wards know what they'redoing with respect.
Shout out to wards.
Right, they know what they'redoing with respect to anything
(15:41):
electrical on a vessel.
Okay, they're doing withrespect to anything electrical
on a vessel.
Okay, I've seen it where ownersare trying to well, that seems
that quote is ridiculous.
I'm going to call my guy I'veheard this statement many times
before where I'm going to send.
You know, my chayito guy that Ihire from hyalia to go on board
(16:06):
to do this work.
I'm like, look, a yacht is notthe same as an apartment
building you may own, nope, itis not the same.
Please do not do that.
I know it seems expensive, butit's just the cost of doing
expensive yeah it's the cost ofdoing if you want.
They heard it doing.
Kristina Hebert (16:24):
Yachts are expensive yeah, it's the cost of
doing if you want.
They heard it here yachts areexpensive.
Okay, yeah, all right, yeah,but yeah cost of doing business
say it's the cost of doingbusiness.
Michelle Otero Valdes (16:33):
If you want to have fun on the water,
which you clearly love, it'sjust the cost of doing that.
And, um, you know how manytimes I have to steer clients.
I see it a lot, not so much inelectrical, I see it more on the
engine side, okay, where I meanI just had a CEO yesterday ask
(17:00):
me well, this seems reallyexpensive for an engine rebuild,
and he gives me the number.
I said, look, number one, I'm alawyer, but what I will say is
that number is not outside thenumbers I've seen for rebuilds
of cats that already are beyondtheir 10 year cycle, right, blah
(17:22):
, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We start having thatconversation and then, well,
this is just shocking, I canhire and they, they try to take
that number and apply it totheir business where they've
made their money.
Kristina Hebert (17:34):
Sure, which is logical to do, that it's totally
logical to do that.
Michelle Otero Valdes (17:40):
The problem is, this is not their
business.
This is their fun, right, I mean, we'll take chartering aside,
but this is like their fun space, yes, and you've got to think
of it in terms of that, like,how valuable is that to you?
I'll say there's this verywell-known musician, whose name
(18:03):
will remain nameless, okay, andhe literally I remember taking
his deposition in a case and hesays I literally take my Benetti
, okay, and I literally just goout and I just look at the water
, mm-hmm.
And he says that brings him somuch peace.
That vessel is probably wortharound $10 million.
(18:28):
Vessel is probably worth around10 million dollars.
So this guy has spent 10million dollars, plus the crew,
plus, you know, whatevermaintenance or repairs he may
have to essentially drive out.
Right, it's like us driving tothe point in our car, right to
look, to look, and that's whathe does.
You know why he's away fromprying eyes, he's away from
(18:52):
paparazzi, he's away from peoplethat want to bug him and he
gets to do whatever the heck hewants to do out in the middle of
nowhere do you think that itwould be?
Kristina Hebert (19:02):
it's almost like in my experience um, I find
that a lot of these owners,they have these incredible teams
in their business and in theirhomes and in their lives,
because that and they havemultiple homes and they have
multiple managers and theirlives are very well oiled to be
able to be in a position to havea super yacht.
But then that that same thoughtprocess and those people that
(19:26):
they surround themselves with intheir professional life does
not transfer necessarily to theboat.
And then I say to myself howdoes that gentleman surround
themselves with that caliber ofpeople?
Michelle Otero Valdes (19:39):
And I'm not naming but you know what I'm
saying.
I know exactly what you'resaying.
Kristina Hebert (19:42):
And and it's like but, but how are you
allowing somebody of thatcaliber to make choices on your
$10 million motor yacht, on allof that the safety of your
family, the safety of yourchildren on board, the safety of
your friends and yourexperience?
How do we fix that?
Michelle Otero Valdes (20:00):
It's it's education.
Kristina Hebert (20:04):
To the owner or to the industry, I think a
little bit of both this is whereright?
Michelle Otero Valdes (20:10):
this is where I'm not sure.
Sitting here today, it's almostas though something bad.
It's almost like a law.
Sometimes a law doesn't getpassed when something really bad
happens Because no one thoughtof it.
I agree.
Kristina Hebert (20:27):
It's true, which is sad.
And then we say, did we reallyneed a law to be passed?
But we did.
No, I know yeah, becauseotherwise, seatbelts we
shouldn't have to have a lawthat says wear the seatbelt or
you're going to die when you getin an accident.
Right, and go shooting out thefront of the car.
Michelle Otero Valdes (20:50):
We to tell us to put it on, but if we
don't, would people not?
I don't know.
Same thing, I guess.
Right, it's the same idea.
So, going back to thisindividual um, before he had a
casualty aboard, this saidbenetti um.
The vessel was being managed byhis brother that had had no
idea how to do so, how to do soand this is not a criticism, he
(21:15):
didn't know any better.
No, this was a person that wasable to manage those parts of
his life.
And I think another problem umis, for example, I always tout
vessel management.
I think it's a great thing fora very busy owner, but then I
(21:38):
got to tell you some of themcome in with insane money
requests and this is not acriticism.
A couple of owners have reachedout back to me saying I feel
like I'm just being ripped off,like I'm not.
(22:00):
I hear that, you know I I feellike they're not listening to me
, so I'm paying them like, likeI'm thinking of another one
where I mean this is a huge,super yacht.
So they're paying a yachtmanager for this yacht about
(22:21):
13,000 euros a month.
That doesn't include paying thecrew and everything.
This is just for the yachtmanagement and, yes, they're
over 400 GT, so there is a lotof paperwork and documentation
and they have to help thecaptain with that.
Right, I'm not criticizing thenumber.
(22:42):
What I'm saying is that some ofthese owners kind of feel like
they talk down to me and I feellike they just want me to pay
the, the monthly bill.
And when a big bill comes inlet's say there's a major engine
(23:04):
problem and the bill comes inthey just expect me to be a bank
, without actually explaining tome why this happened and it's a
customer service issue.
I worked eight years forsomething called a P&I club Okay
(23:28):
, and it's a form of marineinsurance, and it was an English
P&I club Okay, and it's a formof marine insurance, and it was
an English P&I club.
And I used to remember theydrilled into my head the member,
which is the insured person.
The member is number one.
You try and resolve their issueand you resolve it in a way
(23:51):
that's beneficial for themwhilst remaining within the
club's kind of you knowframework.
Sure, and that really stuckwith me.
And I noticed when I startedpracticing law, like there'd be
times if my assistant's busy, Ipicked up the phone law office
(24:13):
like michelle, is that you?
Yeah you answer the phone, I'mlike, well, yeah, my assistant's
a photocopier and the phonerang.
I'm gonna pick it up.
And I think when we get to thatlevel, especially at the super
yacht level, if we're nottreating these owners with the
(24:35):
respect that they deserve interms of the amounts that
they're paying the kind ofgetting to know what it is they
like and don't like,business-wise, if we don't go
that extra mile without chargingthem another dime for that, I
feel like that's where it leadsto the friction.
(24:59):
I'll call it friction, sure,because there are costs that
have to be incurred and I thinkthat these owners that are doing
this I mean at a certaincertain level, you have to have
vessel management.
But even at the, at the smalleryachts, when you, when you
start to see that the captainisn't quite there and he's a
very and there's a verydemanding owner, or the owner
(25:23):
has peculiarities in terms ofhow they want the vessel
operated, or they've had aseries of problems with the
vessel because he told he choseto ignore everyone's advice.
Right, my advice is hiscaptain's advice, his mate's
advice don't buy this brand boator this particular one because
(25:48):
it's had x, y and z.
You know, sometimes they dothat.
That's when you start talkingvessel management and saying,
look, and you don't?
You know you have to be verycareful with owners, right?
You don't talk about it interms of professionalism, as we
are here today, sure, but youare talking about it in terms of
(26:09):
don't you just want this thingto always be ready?
Kristina Hebert (26:13):
and available for you and be right and be safe
and be correct.
I find, though, that the biggerthe boat, there's a correlation
, that the the larger the boat,the less likely I will have any
interaction with the owner.
Michelle Otero Valdes (26:28):
Oh, absolutely and I your At your
level.
Kristina Hebert (26:30):
yeah, absolutely At my level any boat
that's over about 120 feet.
For the most part we willrarely have any.
Most of the time let's say up toabout 150, it's the captain.
The captain's still very muchin charge of managing their
(26:52):
refit.
There may be a managementcompany, but they can be the
interface, and I'm good withthat.
Where we struggle, we struggletoo.
I have no idea how somebody'spresenting my electrical survey
or my report, for example, allthe way up to an owner.
In fact I firmly don't believethe owner ever sees it because
I'm not sure that they and again, I don't write something.
(27:15):
But electric, in my opinion, isobviously the most important
system on the boat and forsafety it is.
But I have no idea why an ownerwouldn't make that decision to
purchase that equipment whenit's so clearly that it's not
safe.
But I have no idea if that evermade it past the yacht
management company or if it evenmade the budget.
And that's hard because thoseare the people that are
(27:38):
protecting the owner but they'realso preventing kind of some of
that customer service that.
Michelle Otero Valdes (27:43):
I agree.
Kristina Hebert (27:43):
Yeah, it is a hard balance.
Michelle Otero Valdes (27:45):
It is super hard and and you know, and
when you're talking the largerlevels, it's not.
It may not even be anindividual.
It could be something called afamily office right, absolutely.
Kristina Hebert (28:00):
And and they have fleets of vessels right,
right.
Michelle Otero Valdes (28:07):
So this is where the rubber is meeting
the road in terms of how webetter the industry, because
there is a what I'll call and Idon't mean in a negative
connotation, but forvisualization right the dragon
(28:29):
at the gate.
If the dragon at the gate hasno idea what they're doing, it's
a huge problem.
Agree, and I don't know likeowners are too busy to have
(28:52):
educational seminars, especiallyafter a certain size.
As you pointed out, familyoffices are too busy to.
Yeah.
Kristina Hebert (28:58):
They're managing a million other things.
And then here's this boat andthey're like really, that's on
my plate, put it on your plate,you know, like, like, we're not
interested.
I've often wondered why and Ihave heard about this, not in
the US but in panels in othercountries, about the insurance
companies, for example, gettinginvolved with yacht management,
which I understand.
(29:20):
Nobody wants that either at all.
But I understand Lloyd's willsit there and say here's two
Benettis, one's got a full say,here's two, two Benetti's, yeah,
one's got a full time crewthat's managing it.
Maybe it's even a part time,but full time.
They're on the boat, they'remanaging it, they're taking care
of it.
And this one's mothballed, youknow, and put away for four or
(29:41):
five months.
And, yeah, the bilge pumps areworking good, but beyond that,
nobody's really checking on it.
Which boat's more valuable?
They were both built at thesame time, but you know that
this boat that's that's hardlybeing maintained is is
absolutely losing its value,more than this one.
So I'm surprised the insuranceindustry hasn't.
But they too don't want toupset the owners.
(30:02):
They too don't want to upsetthat apple cart or that balance.
But at some point, how, how dowe get around that?
Michelle Otero Valdes (30:09):
well, so what I've been seeing insurance
involved with a little bit isnot not that scenario.
Okay, so let's say a vessel hasto work.
They will insist on certain.
(30:30):
I've even had it where theywant a local yard, well-known
yard here, like an LMC orBradford or something like that.
They'll have them say look, weneed to know you have X, y and Z
in place, because a lot ofthese yards what they do is they
(30:54):
put the onus on the owner.
Right, the owner has to addthem as an additional insured
because they don't want to be onthe hook if something should go
wrong on the vessel.
Right.
So that gets into a whole otheravenue of liabilities risks.
But just sticking to thescenario that you mentioned, the
(31:18):
reason why insurers don't domore is because right now the
the law in the US is a reallyfunky term called uberamai fidei
and what that means is Did youget that, jordan, uberamai fidei
(31:38):
.
Uberamai fidei, so it's utmostgood faith.
So it puts the onus on theowner to tell the insurance
company every little thingthat's wrong with the boat,
whether they know it or not.
Kristina Hebert (31:53):
That's probably a quiet conversation, yeah, so
the problem there is.
Michelle Otero Valdes (32:00):
owners may not know what's actually
wrong with their vessel, andthat gets into a whole other can
of worms.
It's probably good for anotherpodcast.
Kristina Hebert (32:10):
All right, we'll save that one.
And I've also seen these ETOs.
Have you seen this?
They go on board the boat and,jordan, can you look up the
Producer?
Jordan, I'm using you a lottoday For ETO.
What it stands for, I want tosay it's like engineering
technical officer oh, okay, butit's also there's another word
(32:35):
in there for that but thatessentially, they either
represent the builder,Electrotechnical officer.
Electrotechnical, but not whatdid I say Engineer?
So it's electrotechnical, butthey represent either the
builder, the management company,but they are technically
qualified to go on board.
They're not a surveyor, sothey're not doing the survey,
(32:58):
but they're helping the crewmanage the um, the repair okay
because the crew essentially sothis person is is kind of like
middle management, hired by theowner.
Okay, so they are hired by theowner.
They're hired by the owner.
Michelle Otero Valdes (33:15):
Okay.
Kristina Hebert (33:16):
And they're either micromanage to either
work with the management ormicromanage the management Right
or the builder and help thecrew make sure they know.
But then I'm kind of like, well, where'd they find this person?
So they're not a liveaboardmember of the crew, but they're
technically the crew.
They're kind of like an owner'sagent with skills, right.
(33:37):
Well, I mean, and that's greatto have.
While it's the family, likeyou're saying, it's the family,
what were you calling?
Michelle Otero Valdes (33:45):
it Whether it's a family office or
a one-off owner.
But maybe there is thiselectrotechnical Sorry
correction Electrotechnicalofficer is on a Navy ship.
Okay, electrical technicalofficer is on a yacht.
Kristina Hebert (34:02):
Is on a yacht is on a yacht, so I, but we
recently at reibovich in safeharbor we have dealt with a
couple of etos okay that thatare on boats but they don't stay
with the boat all the time, butthey they are there either as
the owner's rep, um, or they'rethere on behalf of the builder.
If it's somewhat warranty, it'sinteresting.
Yes, as an ETO, I actually likeit.
(34:24):
Yes, because they are there.
They are qualified.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:28):
They know what they're looking at.
They go Professionalism.
I think this is just good, justwhat you're talking about.
Kristina Hebert (34:31):
I think this is a good thing.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:33):
Yeah, I think it's a great thing, I
think it's really good.
You know, I go back to my lifeon working, you know, cargo
ships and those kinds of vesselsand they had that.
They had that type of, and youhave a series.
Well, they're called.
Kristina Hebert (34:50):
Something else.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:50):
Insurance lingo.
Kristina Hebert (34:51):
They're supernumeraries, so they're
people, these are two big termswe're learning today.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:56):
They're supernumeraries or supercargo,
even though they're humans.
Okay, what they are are peoplethat go on board to perform
technical services.
They're technically not crew,they're not the crew compliment
right Under SOLAS but whatthey're there to do.
So can you imagine you have aworking vessel that's got a
(35:21):
bunch of refrigerated cargos,refrigerated containers, to make
sure it can make it from, say,china to the US or China to
wherever?
You'd have technicians on boardto make sure that they keep
functioning throughout thevoyage, because you lose one
(35:41):
container full of shrimp.
That's a lot of money, probablygoing to cost you your whole
trip.
Well, bingo, so they have thesepeople on board and I've always
said this needs to betranslated to the yacht industry
, it's happening and it'shappening.
I'm so happy to hear that I'vemade that recommendation.
(36:03):
On a few one-off cases wherethe vessel is having a problem,
people cannot figure out what'shappening and they have to make
a transit.
They have to go foreign becauseof the cruising permit.
And the local yard doesn't wantto issue the affidavit, saying
(36:23):
you know we're actually doingwork here, because unless you've
paid them the money, they don'twant to give you the affidavit.
So there's a little bit goingon there, right?
So in those instances I've madethat recommendation and whoever
the owner is whether it's theactual owner or an office or a
(36:45):
manager it's sometimes a fightbut eventually it gets passed on
and they're like yes, let's dothat.
Kristina Hebert (36:52):
Well, these seem to be occurring on newer
Netherlander boats.
Okay that they have these ETOsand it's very helpful because
this person is coming in not asa crew person.
From my perspective, from thewards, electrical is not a crew
person saying you know, whenwe're underway, I'm noticing
(37:13):
this and that, but I have to dothis.
This is a person that's come ineither understood the build,
understood from the verybeginning everything, and and
can say and will know right offif I'm, if I'm on my game or not
, right and and I love that,good, call me out, because you
know what my competition isn'tgoing to necessarily be on their
(37:33):
game.
Like me, no problem, right, I'm, but I it is starting to happen
only on the super big boats andrecently for me.
For me, we're interacting, Ilove it.
So I hope that it continues.
Michelle Otero Valdes (37:44):
Yeah, no, that's great.
Kristina Hebert (37:45):
Yeah, so I do think that they're listening to
you.
Maybe they're taking a while.
Michelle Otero Valdes (37:50):
We'll give Michelle credit.
It was me personally, it wasMichelle.
Kristina Hebert (37:53):
It was her, she did it.
Michelle Otero Valdes (37:57):
Yep.
Anything that gives the ownertheir time aboard 100%, without
a snag, correct, is a win Agree,and that is the job of the
industry, because if they're anunhappy owner, they may not buy
(38:22):
the next size up, and we needthem to buy that Absolutely.
Absolutely we do.
And to support each other tocontinually raise what you call
that A game right.
And I think we only do that ifwe are, if we're thinking of
(38:44):
each other.
Right, you have an electricalissue, you need to go talk to
christy.
You got a legal issue.
You need to talk to michelle.
I don't know the answer to this.
Let me make a few calls andcome back to you right like I'll
do that.
Kristina Hebert (39:00):
I do that too, all the time.
Charge them for it.
Michelle Otero Valdes (39:03):
It's just , I think, if we don't do that,
we're not.
That is.
That is the goal of thisindustry, right, I think?
On what I'll call the smallerboat space, the nmma type boats
of the world, type boats of theworld, they've done an amazing
(39:29):
job of always thinking how canwe make it easier for the wreck?
Kristina Hebert (39:30):
boater to go out there.
A wonderful experience.
Michelle Otero Valdes (39:32):
Yeah, exactly, get on the water and
look at some of the ceos thatthey've hired right the gal from
winnebago, for example, the Imean, when you start looking at
some of these people, you'relike they've done amazing job in
that space.
The 45 and under space yeah,right, no, it's true.
(39:52):
Now we need to do the same forthe 45 and over, and I think
we're very fragmented in thatregard.
I think that we need to getbeyond.
I don't view any other maritimelawyer as my competition.
I, in fact, look at them aslike a resource, because I may
(40:13):
not have the answer, but you mayhave experienced this, and I
think we need to be more openabout that.
I think we need to be more openabout that, you know, and it's
I don't.
I don't know what the reason isfor that, other than maybe just
plain old fear that I don'tknow, like, fear of like I'm
(40:36):
going to miss out on thisopportunity, but no, I'm the
first that's ready to be like.
Kristina Hebert (40:41):
You know what So-and and so may be I agree
suited for your needs at thispoint well, that's because
you're qualified, you'reprofessional and you're
confident in who you are andwhat you are, so you're not
intimidated by somebody who'sjust asking a question.
We all have an issue.
What I always say is I couldn'tservice every boat, even if I
wanted to.
If all of them came here andthey all only had my phone
(41:03):
number in their phones, underelectric, all it said was wards,
I would fail.
Michelle Otero Valdes (41:09):
Right.
Kristina Hebert (41:09):
Because I couldn't service every single
boat here.
So I need people that are inthe light business to be as
professional to take care of theboats because we need them as a
community.
I always remind people SouthFlorida is not a destination for
yachting.
People come here because theconcentration of services, goods
and our geographical locationto the Caribbean.
(41:33):
But they're coming here forthose purposes, and if we don't
make this a place for them, thenwe're going to all lose, like
you're saying.
So it's on all of us to helphave that experience.
Michelle Otero Valdes (41:43):
That's the one thing we don't want to
do is lose out.
So you don't know how manytimes I'll hear something along
the lines of because, remember,I'm physically based in Miami.
Oh, miami, such a crummy placeto get my boat worked on.
And then my response is PortLauderdale is right there.
(42:04):
It's literally right there.
Do you need me to make somecalls for you?
Kristina Hebert (42:09):
And, by the way , it's only like 18 miles away.
It's not like it's, but I hearthe opposite that well, I'm
going to be down in Miami.
Do you guys go there?
And it's like it's not aforeign land, it's 18 miles away
.
I mean, I'm gonna go to costarica.
If you need me to.
Wherever let's go, you know,wherever we need to be or
they'll be.
Michelle Otero Valdes (42:26):
Well, you know I tend to take my vessel,
uh, to say newport.
I go to newport.
You know there's no tax there,it's, it's a great place really.
How is?
How is the repair situationthere?
And they kind of like get realquiet Because everybody comes
from Fort Lauderdale, exactly.
(42:47):
So, look, I mean, at the end ofthe day, if we keep doing, we
keep our eye on the prize, whichis to make the owner love every
experience that he, she, they,whoever it may be family office,
they have an amazing time onthat boat.
(43:10):
You've got them hooked, I meanthis is an amazing thing to do.
Kristina Hebert (43:17):
We really are part of an amazing industry, not
to say that word too many times.
But on tariffs, let's go backto our.
Let's conclude.
Okay, tariffs, all right.
Don't be afraid to buy a boatin the US.
Don't shy away from boatingbecause of tariffs.
Don't shy away from any of it.
Buy American.
Yep, buy the boat.
What if I have a boat and I'mtrying to sell it right now?
(43:38):
As long as it's US flag, myboat's worth more money, correct
, so I'm sitting on somethingthat's worth a lot more now.
Correct, that's awesome.
That's a great thing, that is agreat thing.
So buy a boat, get a new boat,use it break it and call wards.
There you go.
Okay, sounds like Michelle,when you're ready to buy it and
sell it.
Thank you for being here today.
It was such a pleasure and Ireally love your perspective on
(44:01):
everything and being positiveand it's also realistic.
I know that, as women, we wespoke and we both have children
and all the things in front, butI do appreciate you giving up
your time and volunteering anddoing all that you do to help
our industry.
Michelle Otero Valdes (44:13):
so oh, thank you and thank you.
This was.
This was fun and we're I'mgonna invite you again, so we're
gonna have plenty of new topics.
Kristina Hebert (44:20):
You tell me the next time you want to talk
about it.
Wow, okay, okay, all right,sounds like a plan.
That's it, thank you.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you, good.
Michelle Otero Valdes (44:30):
Very good , was I good Excellent.
Kristina Hebert (44:34):
Yeah, okay, so good, producer Jordan.
So good, you got all thosenotes.
So how long have you been doingthis?
Do we look really professional,jesus, this is our third season
, so we did it the first season.
My dad was my first guest and Idid it.
That would make sense.
(44:54):
Yes, and I did it becausethat's wonderful, though that's
really wonderful.
It's our 75th and my wholesaying that first season was
that we made it to our 75th andmy whole saying that first
season was that we're we made itto our 75th anniversary.
But I don't want to be thosepeople that, like you, have you
ever walked into those storesand you see all the plaques that
like, like you can tell theypeaked at like 92.
(45:14):
But after that it's like it's2025.
You got any new awards up thereor anything?
Michelle Otero Valdes (45:18):
And.
Kristina Hebert (45:19):
I wanted it to be that we're just getting
started, so we're 75, so that'sa book we're not on this anymore
, so you that's a book that'sfor me to sign, that you were
here for season three.
Oh, it's just, there's nothingthat you have to do.
Um, so I wanted it.
The other thing is like I hiredI have a ton of new young like
engineers and they're great, butthey have no idea that there
(45:41):
was a bob Rossioli.
Oh, you know what I mean.
And so they think Rossioliyachting was sold to one water
yacht but they never met a BobRossioli.
Michelle Otero Valdes (45:49):
Right, and they that there was a real
human or George Cable Right orWard Right.
Kristina Hebert (45:55):
Or you know, and so I, I was like, wow, so I
just invited all the CEOs that Iknew of.
Wow, so I just invited all theCEOs that I knew of family
businesses.
Sure, and that was season one.
Okay, season two was just atthe boat show.
Yeah, and it was all differentthings, just people that came by
, and it was at Flibs, and thenI just thought this would be
good to do with all the stuffthat was CBP and tariffs.
(46:17):
We're talking about foreigntrade zones.
My one this morning was onUSLnh longshore, funny, I you
know.
So I just figured I would coverthe associations don't
necessarily have money to dothose things, um, so I had phil
purcell talking about the trainbridge or the tunnel, right, but
(46:37):
these are all issues and so I'mlike you know what, I don't
mind put it up, I'm a foundingmember of MISF, but at least
maybe we can send captains thistalking about tariffs, talking
about USLNH, talking about CBPor any of it.
So right, and I just think it'sfun to do so, and this was our
old building, as you know.
Michelle Otero Valdes (46:57):
yeah, I mean, I remember this was the
building I used to come to wayback in the day, right yeah, we
moved in 03.
Kristina Hebert (47:05):
So Okay, so we left it sitting here, and then I
just said, you know I wanted todo it.
Like well, I have a building,we'll turn it into a studio.
Michelle Otero Valdes (47:12):
Yeah.
Kristina Hebert (47:13):
And then Lee's made it happen.
There you go, so I'll send itout when it comes out and
everything It'll be on YouTube,cool.
Michelle Otero Valdes (47:24):
And it'll be on Spotify.
Oh dear, Any place you get yourpodcasts All of the iRadio
iHeartRadio, all of that, I know.
It's on all of the platforms.
Kristina Hebert (47:35):
Geez, we're just like If you're going to do
it, you've got to do it right.
Apparently, you know Well, andpeople don't think that of old
wards, marine, you know, andagain, we've been around a long
time but we still have to earnbusiness and we still need to be
out there and right, yeah, no,I totally, totally understand
that and, um, it's funny becauseyou would think that over the
(47:58):
years, the word of mouth and theword of mouth and the word of
mouth, you didn't know me untiluntil like a week ago, and now
I'm like we're like.
I'm like, oh my god, this womanis so like we're sisters from
another mother.
I didn't.
How is it that we have run inthe same right for 20, for
decades?
(48:19):
Our kids are even very similarin age.
Correct, I think my yeah, yes.
Michelle Otero Valdes (48:23):
Yes, how many do you have?
I've got two daughters, 26 and20.
And the other one just turned22.
Kristina Hebert (48:30):
Right and I'm two boys, 22 and 27.
Michelle Otero Valdes (48:32):
So it's like Right, they're like right
there, right.
Kristina Hebert (48:34):
So it was like yeah, thank you for joining us
this season on season three ofthe Ward's Way podcast.
Be sure you subscribe, becausethere's much more to come.
Welcome to the Season 3 Wards Way podcast,
where we're covering the hotlegislative topics of 2025.
From tariffs to tunnels andbridges, from foreign trade
zones to workers' compensation,to the Fort Lauderdale
International Boat Show, to theMarine Research Hub, industry
(00:22):
experts and clarification on theB-11, b2 visas.
Join us as we celebrate 75years in business and we're just
getting started.
Welcome to season three.
Today I am here with MichelleOtero-Valdez of the Michelle
Otero-Valdez Maritime Law Firm.
Very good, and I'm honoredbecause you are the first Latino
(00:46):
maritime lawyer ever registeredwith the Florida Bar.
Well, let me correct that justa little bit.
Michelle Otero Valdes (00:54):
I mean first board certified Latina in
Admiralty Maritime Law inFlorida.
Okay, or I think probablyanywhere that sounds even better
.
Kristina Hebert (01:03):
Well, congratulations on that.
And I'm lucky to have you heretoday and we're going to talk
about tariffs.
And the cool part was I know foranybody who thinks that tariffs
are a bad topic I really youand I had the opportunity we'll
give a shout out to professionalwomen in yachting.
You and I had an opportunity tomeet on that panel and I just
really liked your take ontariffs.
(01:24):
You were the first personthat's not like oh my God, this
is terrible.
You were like it's a little bitof a challenge to keep up with
it and it's reading executiveorders every day and
understanding them andinterpreting them and how they
change.
But talk about it.
Give me your take on it, whichcompletely impressed me.
Michelle Otero Valdes (01:43):
So no, pressure, great, no pressure.
Okay, your take on it, whichcompletely impressed me.
So, no pressure, great, nopressure.
Um, what I would say and I meanthis is a personal belief of
mine that, um, chaos createsopportunity.
Absolutely, I love that, right.
So, because of the chaos we'reseeing, if we take aside what's
happening in the news, which Itry not to watch, what we're
(02:06):
seeing is almost a daily changein the tariffs.
But I think, if everyone justcalms down for a minute and has
a look at what are tariffsintended to do, okay, right, so
a tariff, the way I get whatPresident Trump is trying to do
(02:27):
no politics here but is thisidea of well, the US has been
paying X in tariffs, so we'regoing to charge you a reciprocal
tariff for that same thing,whatever the widget is.
Tariff for that same thing,whatever the widget is right, in
the hopes that that governmentas I understand what he's saying
(02:56):
, that government will come tothe negotiating table to try and
lower their tariff so that wecan say, okay, yeah, let's say
2% or whatever the number isright.
I think that's what.
At least that's what he'sexpressed his goal in a nutshell
Sure To be.
Kristina Hebert (03:10):
And I understand it, the same Right,
okay, great, yeah, so that'shelpful.
Michelle Otero Valdes (03:13):
Okay, so, cause I try not to watch too
much news, uh, so fast forward.
So the widget is coming in andthe.
So the widget is coming in andthe US government will charge
now that for yachts it was 1.5%from most countries not every
country, and we'll get into thatin a minute 1.5% of the total,
(03:36):
of the total value of the vessel.
So you had a vessel being builtin, say, the Netherlands, sure,
and you wanted to bring it into the US, for whatever reason
it could be, because you want tohave it US flag, because you're
(03:58):
a US owner, you would have topay 1.5% duty before that vessel
would be released to the owner,if it is actually brought in,
right?
Kristina Hebert (04:10):
Into US Commerce Correct.
Michelle Otero Valdes (04:12):
Okay, okay.
Let's distinguish that frommost foreign flag vessels that
come in on, say, a cruisingpermit Okay, not for sale, not
for sale, not for sale.
They could toodle about in theus, but then they have to leave
and be gone right for a certainperiod of time before they can
(04:33):
get another cruising permit.
Yep and toodle back into the us, right?
So we're not talking aboutthose, okay, okay.
Where we talk about those is ifthey want to bring in one of
those and a US owner is a realpatriot, I mean, I get that.
Kristina Hebert (04:51):
Yeah, I get that US Yep.
Michelle Otero Valdes (04:54):
A US citizen said or maybe they do a
lot of business with thegovernment, okay, and they don't
feel comfortable having a USSorry, a foreign flag vessel
that maybe they will bring thatclient aboard.
So what do they do?
They say, look, I want to bringin my vessel, I want to go
ahead and re-flag US, and then Ihave to inform them for you to
(05:19):
do that.
That is now importing thevessel in the US, which means
you have to pay duty.
Well, what's that?
And then, when you know so,before it was 1.5%, so you could
do the math there.
Looking at it today, dependingon the country it's coming from,
it's not 1.5 anymore.
(05:39):
Right, we're talking now theseare delayed to like May 4th, I
think, is the latest date.
They're talking China tariffs,of being Chinese tariffs being
one hundred and forty fivepercent.
So I don't think any saneperson would ever pay one
hundred and forty five percentduty on, say, a Chinese built
(06:01):
vessel, on, say, a Chinese-builtvessel.
Okay, I don't think that'sultimately going to happen, but
right now, as a result ofTrump's first term, those
vessels were already paying ahigher duty.
They were already paying 26.5%,which was the 1.5 for yachts
(06:22):
Plus.
Remember he slapped that 25%duty during his first term?
Okay, okay, so I don't seenecessarily the Chinese tariffs
going below what I call thatminimum, which was the 26.5.
Okay, all right.
So what does that all mean?
Kristina Hebert (06:44):
right Now that I've given you kind of like the
frame, so we have this scenarioand, by the way, most yacht
owners are american, so yourscenario is not that far off.
It's an american trying to buya boat right and you're in your
example.
He's buying one from thenetherlands right she is buying
one there you go you know, girl,and I have a few of those, and
what happens?
(07:04):
So there's your scenario.
Now they were at 26.5%.
Michelle Otero Valdes (07:08):
Right, so right now, today, that duty is.
There's a 10% minimum tariffthat President Trump is looking
to impose Okay, trump is lookingto impose.
Okay, so that vessel that usedto pay 1.5% duty would be paying
(07:40):
10% if they were to buy avessel in the Netherlands and
want to actually bring it in,import wise, to the US because
they want to reflag US.
Okay, I don't see a lot ofowners doing that.
They will start to think alittle smarter, and one way of
thinking smarter is now allthose US flag already US flag
vessels that may be either USbuilt or even foreign built now
(08:03):
become a little more valuable.
So what does that do for thatmarket?
It increases the value of thosevessels because now they're
already duty paid right.
There's a piece of paper thatshows that that vessel was duty
paid because that was the onlyway they were going to get a US
flag right.
(08:24):
Right if they're for, if theywere built for and built right.
So there is an opportunitythere, because if we see a
situation now where owners aregiven all of this information,
they're looking at this going.
Well, why don't I just buy avessel that's already US built?
(08:46):
And I'm starting to see that alittle bit, not too much,
because I think people aretaking a wait and see attitude
right now, unfortunately.
I think that if theadministration is a little
clearer on what they're lookingto do there, that will give you
(09:07):
know, even if it's just rip offthe bandaid and it's going to be
X, but I you know, I think theadministration is seeing what's
happening with the uncertaintyright.
The markets are going a littleberserk right now and I think he
needs to kind of calm themarkets.
I mean, that's a differentargument, a different thing to
(09:27):
think about, but I think, oncethings calm down, if in fact we
are looking at higher tariffsand I think for certain
countries we will that poses awell, it poses a challenge for
yacht brokers, because they theymay be, they may have their
(09:52):
preferred builder right.
Kristina Hebert (09:56):
These yacht brokers have their little
builders that they've Well, it'sthe boats they know the most,
or the?
Michelle Otero Valdes (10:01):
boats.
They're most Formedrelationships with the boats
they know the most, or the fourrelationships with um.
We might see a scenario whereus owners just say you know what
?
I'm just gonna go foreign anddeal with the uh cruising permit
issue.
The cruising permit issue hasbecome a moving target.
(10:22):
Even before the trumpadministration it was a bit of a
moving target.
We see cbp taking a harsherview.
I should say a harsher view.
That's.
That's unfair.
They're taking a stricter.
They're actually enforcing thelaws that were already in place
(10:42):
with the crew.
Mm-hmm.
Right Crew are not going to beallowed to do refits.
They were never allowed to dothat under the B-1, b-2 visa.
Kristina Hebert (10:53):
But now let's clarify that.
Okay, because they can performduties that they were performing
as crew, correct, correct.
They just cannot perform workas the contractors would do.
That would be outside of theircrew type work, which is what
they shouldn't be doing anyway.
Michelle Otero Valdes (11:12):
Correct.
So now that's been.
They're enforcing that better,and there's a lot of ways to
enforce it better, right?
Everyone is on social media.
Most of these crew are youngerpeople.
They tend to put a lot of dumbstuff out there and that's
(11:35):
getting them in trouble, right?
Another issue is that they'reoverstaying the B1, b2.
Let's say, they finish theirjob for the season and now
they're looking to get onanother vessel, but they're
staying here.
They're not going to home to dothat.
Kristina Hebert (11:54):
And my understanding is CBP is okay If
they look for a job.
They just can't earn moneywhile they look for a job,
correct, right.
So as long as you had enoughpocket cash to stay here and
right and look and live and notearn any money while you're here
doing that, that's okay.
But that's not what washappening, which correct the day
worker issue was coming up,correct, right, okay, right, so,
(12:18):
um, but we don't want to sendout a message that says crew
can't come here to do refits.
No, absolutely not.
They need to come here.
They either need to arrive withthe boat foreign or leave with
the boat foreign Correct andthen perform duties that they
would do within their scope.
Michelle Otero Valde (12:34):
Capacities and scope.
Okay, correct, if they weredoing if they were doing If the
chef is cooking.
Kristina Hebert (12:40):
Fine, right, the chef is cooking.
Michelle Otero Valdes (12:42):
If they were doing basic engine work
Changing filters and they're anengineer, perfectly fine.
Exactly, breaking down anengine and doing all Right.
Generally, not with generallywithin their scope of work.
Kristina Hebert (12:57):
Right, right, no, absolutely Agree Right.
Michelle Otero Valdes (13:00):
Right, okay, so little things like that
, so we're seeing the shift withCBP.
Kristina Hebert (13:03):
Yeah Right, okay, so little things like that
.
So we're seeing the shift withCBP kind of enforcing more.
You're saying.
Michelle Otero Valdes (13:06):
Yes, we're seeing the shift in CBP,
the cruising license.
The cruising license is gettingstricter.
They're really holding to thedays that you have to be out.
I want to say it's 15 days.
Right, I'm now going based onbasic memory, but you know, it's
not's not okay, let's turnaround.
(13:27):
Today and I went out to biminifor the day right no, they're,
they're not.
No, we're not doing that.
So, um, we're seeing closings.
We're seeing more closingswhere we're going out foreign
and then immediately calling ata foreign jurisdiction ie like
(13:48):
Bimini for the purposes ofrestarting that clock with the
new owner after we've closed, tothen come back in and then they
have that full amount of time,rather than coming in and then
scrambling.
Kristina Hebert (14:05):
But there's still so many ways that these
boats can come here because wedon't want to have a luxury tax
mentality where we don't wantthe boats here we were all
around.
I know we were all aroundduring that, we were here during
that.
I know I was in business duringthat and that was horrible.
That was targeted and I think Ikind of brought that up before
to people that that was targetednot necessarily in our industry
(14:29):
, but we were a big part of thatthat was going after people
with money and luxury items.
This is.
It seems like there's a waythat, as an industry, you know
if an owner if it's still a usowner, they could still buy the
boat.
They can still come in under acruising permit.
They can still absolutely comehere and do a refit with a
foreign crew.
(14:49):
We're not preventing anybodyfrom doing anything.
These are just furtherobstacles that people need to
work with a maritime firm.
Michelle Otero Valdes (14:56):
You know, I don't want to say obstacles.
What I'd say is that and wediscussed this at our panel last
time.
This whole idea ofprofessionalism and knowing what
you're doing Good segue, let'sdo that.
Right and knowing what you'redoing.
And if you don't know, as anowner or as a yacht manager, you
(15:18):
ask and you ask a professional.
I mean, it reminds me of whenyou've got people that come on
board that aren't specialists.
Right, wards know what they'redoing with respect.
Shout out to wards.
Right, they know what they'redoing with respect to anything
(15:41):
electrical on a vessel.
Okay, they're doing withrespect to anything electrical
on a vessel.
Okay, I've seen it where ownersare trying to well, that seems
that quote is ridiculous.
I'm going to call my guy I'veheard this statement many times
before where I'm going to send.
You know, my chayito guy that Ihire from hyalia to go on board
(16:06):
to do this work.
I'm like, look, a yacht is notthe same as an apartment
building you may own, nope, itis not the same.
Please do not do that.
I know it seems expensive, butit's just the cost of doing
expensive yeah it's the cost ofdoing if you want.
They heard it doing.
Kristina Hebert (16:24):
Yachts are expensive yeah, it's the cost of
doing if you want.
They heard it here yachts areexpensive.
Okay, yeah, all right, yeah,but yeah cost of doing business
say it's the cost of doingbusiness.
Michelle Otero Valdes (16:33):
If you want to have fun on the water,
which you clearly love, it'sjust the cost of doing that.
And, um, you know how manytimes I have to steer clients.
I see it a lot, not so much inelectrical, I see it more on the
engine side, okay, where I meanI just had a CEO yesterday ask
(17:00):
me well, this seems reallyexpensive for an engine rebuild,
and he gives me the number.
I said, look, number one, I'm alawyer, but what I will say is
that number is not outside thenumbers I've seen for rebuilds
of cats that already are beyondtheir 10 year cycle, right, blah
(17:22):
, blah, blah, blah, blah.
We start having thatconversation and then, well,
this is just shocking, I canhire and they, they try to take
that number and apply it totheir business where they've
made their money.
Kristina Hebert (17:34):
Sure, which is logical to do, that it's totally
logical to do that.
Michelle Otero Valdes (17:40):
The problem is, this is not their
business.
This is their fun, right, I mean, we'll take chartering aside,
but this is like their fun space, yes, and you've got to think
of it in terms of that, like,how valuable is that to you?
I'll say there's this verywell-known musician, whose name
(18:03):
will remain nameless, okay, andhe literally I remember taking
his deposition in a case and hesays I literally take my Benetti
, okay, and I literally just goout and I just look at the water
, mm-hmm.
And he says that brings him somuch peace.
That vessel is probably wortharound $10 million.
(18:28):
Vessel is probably worth around10 million dollars.
So this guy has spent 10million dollars, plus the crew,
plus, you know, whatevermaintenance or repairs he may
have to essentially drive out.
Right, it's like us driving tothe point in our car, right to
look, to look, and that's whathe does.
You know why he's away fromprying eyes, he's away from
(18:52):
paparazzi, he's away from peoplethat want to bug him and he
gets to do whatever the heck hewants to do out in the middle of
nowhere do you think that itwould be?
Kristina Hebert (19:02):
it's almost like in my experience um, I find
that a lot of these owners,they have these incredible teams
in their business and in theirhomes and in their lives,
because that and they havemultiple homes and they have
multiple managers and theirlives are very well oiled to be
able to be in a position to havea super yacht.
But then that that same thoughtprocess and those people that
(19:26):
they surround themselves with intheir professional life does
not transfer necessarily to theboat.
And then I say to myself howdoes that gentleman surround
themselves with that caliber ofpeople?
Michelle Otero Valdes (19:39):
And I'm not naming but you know what I'm
saying.
I know exactly what you'resaying.
Kristina Hebert (19:42):
And and it's like but, but how are you
allowing somebody of thatcaliber to make choices on your
$10 million motor yacht, on allof that the safety of your
family, the safety of yourchildren on board, the safety of
your friends and yourexperience?
How do we fix that?
Michelle Otero Valdes (20:00):
It's it's education.
Kristina Hebert (20:04):
To the owner or to the industry, I think a
little bit of both this is whereright?
Michelle Otero Valdes (20:10):
this is where I'm not sure.
Sitting here today, it's almostas though something bad.
It's almost like a law.
Sometimes a law doesn't getpassed when something really bad
happens Because no one thoughtof it.
I agree.
Kristina Hebert (20:27):
It's true, which is sad.
And then we say, did we reallyneed a law to be passed?
But we did.
No, I know yeah, becauseotherwise, seatbelts we
shouldn't have to have a lawthat says wear the seatbelt or
you're going to die when you getin an accident.
Right, and go shooting out thefront of the car.
Michelle Otero Valdes (20:50):
We to tell us to put it on, but if we
don't, would people not?
I don't know.
Same thing, I guess.
Right, it's the same idea.
So, going back to thisindividual um, before he had a
casualty aboard, this saidbenetti um.
The vessel was being managed byhis brother that had had no
idea how to do so, how to do soand this is not a criticism, he
(21:15):
didn't know any better.
No, this was a person that wasable to manage those parts of
his life.
And I think another problem umis, for example, I always tout
vessel management.
I think it's a great thing fora very busy owner, but then I
(21:38):
got to tell you some of themcome in with insane money
requests and this is not acriticism.
A couple of owners have reachedout back to me saying I feel
like I'm just being ripped off,like I'm not.
(22:00):
I hear that, you know I I feellike they're not listening to me
, so I'm paying them like, likeI'm thinking of another one
where I mean this is a huge,super yacht.
So they're paying a yachtmanager for this yacht about
(22:21):
13,000 euros a month.
That doesn't include paying thecrew and everything.
This is just for the yachtmanagement and, yes, they're
over 400 GT, so there is a lotof paperwork and documentation
and they have to help thecaptain with that.
Right, I'm not criticizing thenumber.
(22:42):
What I'm saying is that some ofthese owners kind of feel like
they talk down to me and I feellike they just want me to pay
the, the monthly bill.
And when a big bill comes inlet's say there's a major engine
(23:04):
problem and the bill comes inthey just expect me to be a bank
, without actually explaining tome why this happened and it's a
customer service issue.
I worked eight years forsomething called a P&I club Okay
(23:28):
, and it's a form of marineinsurance, and it was an English
P&I club Okay, and it's a formof marine insurance, and it was
an English P&I club.
And I used to remember theydrilled into my head the member,
which is the insured person.
The member is number one.
You try and resolve their issueand you resolve it in a way
(23:51):
that's beneficial for themwhilst remaining within the
club's kind of you knowframework.
Sure, and that really stuckwith me.
And I noticed when I startedpracticing law, like there'd be
times if my assistant's busy, Ipicked up the phone law office
(24:13):
like michelle, is that you?
Yeah you answer the phone, I'mlike, well, yeah, my assistant's
a photocopier and the phonerang.
I'm gonna pick it up.
And I think when we get to thatlevel, especially at the super
yacht level, if we're nottreating these owners with the
(24:35):
respect that they deserve interms of the amounts that
they're paying the kind ofgetting to know what it is they
like and don't like,business-wise, if we don't go
that extra mile without chargingthem another dime for that, I
feel like that's where it leadsto the friction.
(24:59):
I'll call it friction, sure,because there are costs that
have to be incurred and I thinkthat these owners that are doing
this I mean at a certaincertain level, you have to have
vessel management.
But even at the, at the smalleryachts, when you, when you
start to see that the captainisn't quite there and he's a
very and there's a verydemanding owner, or the owner
(25:23):
has peculiarities in terms ofhow they want the vessel
operated, or they've had aseries of problems with the
vessel because he told he choseto ignore everyone's advice.
Right, my advice is hiscaptain's advice, his mate's
advice don't buy this brand boator this particular one because
(25:48):
it's had x, y and z.
You know, sometimes they dothat.
That's when you start talkingvessel management and saying,
look, and you don't?
You know you have to be verycareful with owners, right?
You don't talk about it interms of professionalism, as we
are here today, sure, but youare talking about it in terms of
(26:09):
don't you just want this thingto always be ready?
Kristina Hebert (26:13):
and available for you and be right and be safe
and be correct.
I find, though, that the biggerthe boat, there's a correlation
, that the the larger the boat,the less likely I will have any
interaction with the owner.
Michelle Otero Valdes (26:28):
Oh, absolutely and I your At your
level.
Kristina Hebert (26:30):
yeah, absolutely At my level any boat
that's over about 120 feet.
For the most part we willrarely have any.
Most of the time let's say up toabout 150, it's the captain.
The captain's still very muchin charge of managing their
(26:52):
refit.
There may be a managementcompany, but they can be the
interface, and I'm good withthat.
Where we struggle, we struggletoo.
I have no idea how somebody'spresenting my electrical survey
or my report, for example, allthe way up to an owner.
In fact I firmly don't believethe owner ever sees it because
I'm not sure that they and again, I don't write something.
(27:15):
But electric, in my opinion, isobviously the most important
system on the boat and forsafety it is.
But I have no idea why an ownerwouldn't make that decision to
purchase that equipment whenit's so clearly that it's not
safe.
But I have no idea if that evermade it past the yacht
management company or if it evenmade the budget.
And that's hard because thoseare the people that are
(27:38):
protecting the owner but they'realso preventing kind of some of
that customer service that.
Michelle Otero Valdes (27:43):
I agree.
Kristina Hebert (27:43):
Yeah, it is a hard balance.
Michelle Otero Valdes (27:45):
It is super hard and and you know, and
when you're talking the largerlevels, it's not.
It may not even be anindividual.
It could be something called afamily office right, absolutely.
Kristina Hebert (28:00):
And and they have fleets of vessels right,
right.
Michelle Otero Valdes (28:07):
So this is where the rubber is meeting
the road in terms of how webetter the industry, because
there is a what I'll call and Idon't mean in a negative
connotation, but forvisualization right the dragon
(28:29):
at the gate.
If the dragon at the gate hasno idea what they're doing, it's
a huge problem.
Agree, and I don't know likeowners are too busy to have
(28:52):
educational seminars, especiallyafter a certain size.
As you pointed out, familyoffices are too busy to.
Yeah.
Kristina Hebert (28:58):
They're managing a million other things.
And then here's this boat andthey're like really, that's on
my plate, put it on your plate,you know, like, like, we're not
interested.
I've often wondered why and Ihave heard about this, not in
the US but in panels in othercountries, about the insurance
companies, for example, gettinginvolved with yacht management,
which I understand.
(29:20):
Nobody wants that either at all.
But I understand Lloyd's willsit there and say here's two
Benettis, one's got a full say,here's two, two Benetti's, yeah,
one's got a full time crewthat's managing it.
Maybe it's even a part time,but full time.
They're on the boat, they'remanaging it, they're taking care
of it.
And this one's mothballed, youknow, and put away for four or
(29:41):
five months.
And, yeah, the bilge pumps areworking good, but beyond that,
nobody's really checking on it.
Which boat's more valuable?
They were both built at thesame time, but you know that
this boat that's that's hardlybeing maintained is is
absolutely losing its value,more than this one.
So I'm surprised the insuranceindustry hasn't.
But they too don't want toupset the owners.
(30:02):
They too don't want to upsetthat apple cart or that balance.
But at some point, how, how dowe get around that?
Michelle Otero Valdes (30:09):
well, so what I've been seeing insurance
involved with a little bit isnot not that scenario.
Okay, so let's say a vessel hasto work.
They will insist on certain.
(30:30):
I've even had it where theywant a local yard, well-known
yard here, like an LMC orBradford or something like that.
They'll have them say look, weneed to know you have X, y and Z
in place, because a lot ofthese yards what they do is they
(30:54):
put the onus on the owner.
Right, the owner has to addthem as an additional insured
because they don't want to be onthe hook if something should go
wrong on the vessel.
Right.
So that gets into a whole otheravenue of liabilities risks.
But just sticking to thescenario that you mentioned, the
(31:18):
reason why insurers don't domore is because right now the
the law in the US is a reallyfunky term called uberamai fidei
and what that means is Did youget that, jordan, uberamai fidei
(31:38):
.
Uberamai fidei, so it's utmostgood faith.
So it puts the onus on theowner to tell the insurance
company every little thingthat's wrong with the boat,
whether they know it or not.
Kristina Hebert (31:53):
That's probably a quiet conversation, yeah, so
the problem there is.
Michelle Otero Valdes (32:00):
owners may not know what's actually
wrong with their vessel, andthat gets into a whole other can
of worms.
It's probably good for anotherpodcast.
Kristina Hebert (32:10):
All right, we'll save that one.
And I've also seen these ETOs.
Have you seen this?
They go on board the boat and,jordan, can you look up the
Producer?
Jordan, I'm using you a lottoday For ETO.
What it stands for, I want tosay it's like engineering
technical officer oh, okay, butit's also there's another word
(32:35):
in there for that but thatessentially, they either
represent the builder,Electrotechnical officer.
Electrotechnical, but not whatdid I say Engineer?
So it's electrotechnical, butthey represent either the
builder, the management company,but they are technically
qualified to go on board.
They're not a surveyor, sothey're not doing the survey,
(32:58):
but they're helping the crewmanage the um, the repair okay
because the crew essentially sothis person is is kind of like
middle management, hired by theowner.
Okay, so they are hired by theowner.
They're hired by the owner.
Michelle Otero Valdes (33:15):
Okay.
Kristina Hebert (33:16):
And they're either micromanage to either
work with the management ormicromanage the management Right
or the builder and help thecrew make sure they know.
But then I'm kind of like, well, where'd they find this person?
So they're not a liveaboardmember of the crew, but they're
technically the crew.
They're kind of like an owner'sagent with skills, right.
(33:37):
Well, I mean, and that's greatto have.
While it's the family, likeyou're saying, it's the family,
what were you calling?
Michelle Otero Valdes (33:45):
it Whether it's a family office or
a one-off owner.
But maybe there is thiselectrotechnical Sorry
correction Electrotechnicalofficer is on a Navy ship.
Okay, electrical technicalofficer is on a yacht.
Kristina Hebert (34:02):
Is on a yacht is on a yacht, so I, but we
recently at reibovich in safeharbor we have dealt with a
couple of etos okay that thatare on boats but they don't stay
with the boat all the time, butthey they are there either as
the owner's rep, um, or they'rethere on behalf of the builder.
If it's somewhat warranty, it'sinteresting.
Yes, as an ETO, I actually likeit.
(34:24):
Yes, because they are there.
They are qualified.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:28):
They know what they're looking at.
They go Professionalism.
I think this is just good, justwhat you're talking about.
Kristina Hebert (34:31):
I think this is a good thing.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:33):
Yeah, I think it's a great thing, I
think it's really good.
You know, I go back to my lifeon working, you know, cargo
ships and those kinds of vesselsand they had that.
They had that type of, and youhave a series.
Well, they're called.
Kristina Hebert (34:50):
Something else.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:50):
Insurance lingo.
Kristina Hebert (34:51):
They're supernumeraries, so they're
people, these are two big termswe're learning today.
Michelle Otero Valdes (34:56):
They're supernumeraries or supercargo,
even though they're humans.
Okay, what they are are peoplethat go on board to perform
technical services.
They're technically not crew,they're not the crew compliment
right Under SOLAS but whatthey're there to do.
So can you imagine you have aworking vessel that's got a
(35:21):
bunch of refrigerated cargos,refrigerated containers, to make
sure it can make it from, say,china to the US or China to
wherever?
You'd have technicians on boardto make sure that they keep
functioning throughout thevoyage, because you lose one
(35:41):
container full of shrimp.
That's a lot of money, probablygoing to cost you your whole
trip.
Well, bingo, so they have thesepeople on board and I've always
said this needs to betranslated to the yacht industry
, it's happening and it'shappening.
I'm so happy to hear that I'vemade that recommendation.
(36:03):
On a few one-off cases wherethe vessel is having a problem,
people cannot figure out what'shappening and they have to make
a transit.
They have to go foreign becauseof the cruising permit.
And the local yard doesn't wantto issue the affidavit, saying
(36:23):
you know we're actually doingwork here, because unless you've
paid them the money, they don'twant to give you the affidavit.
So there's a little bit goingon there, right?
So in those instances I've madethat recommendation and whoever
the owner is whether it's theactual owner or an office or a
(36:45):
manager it's sometimes a fightbut eventually it gets passed on
and they're like yes, let's dothat.
Kristina Hebert (36:52):
Well, these seem to be occurring on newer
Netherlander boats.
Okay that they have these ETOsand it's very helpful because
this person is coming in not asa crew person.
From my perspective, from thewards, electrical is not a crew
person saying you know, whenwe're underway, I'm noticing
(37:13):
this and that, but I have to dothis.
This is a person that's come ineither understood the build,
understood from the verybeginning everything, and and
can say and will know right offif I'm, if I'm on my game or not
, right and and I love that,good, call me out, because you
know what my competition isn'tgoing to necessarily be on their
(37:33):
game.
Like me, no problem, right, I'm, but I it is starting to happen
only on the super big boats andrecently for me.
For me, we're interacting, Ilove it.
So I hope that it continues.
Michelle Otero Valdes (37:44):
Yeah, no, that's great.
Kristina Hebert (37:45):
Yeah, so I do think that they're listening to
you.
Maybe they're taking a while.
Michelle Otero Valdes (37:50):
We'll give Michelle credit.
It was me personally, it wasMichelle.
Kristina Hebert (37:53):
It was her, she did it.
Michelle Otero Valdes (37:57):
Yep.
Anything that gives the ownertheir time aboard 100%, without
a snag, correct, is a win Agree,and that is the job of the
industry, because if they're anunhappy owner, they may not buy
(38:22):
the next size up, and we needthem to buy that Absolutely.
Absolutely we do.
And to support each other tocontinually raise what you call
that A game right.
And I think we only do that ifwe are, if we're thinking of
(38:44):
each other.
Right, you have an electricalissue, you need to go talk to
christy.
You got a legal issue.
You need to talk to michelle.
I don't know the answer to this.
Let me make a few calls andcome back to you right like I'll
do that.
Kristina Hebert (39:00):
I do that too, all the time.
Charge them for it.
Michelle Otero Valdes (39:03):
It's just , I think, if we don't do that,
we're not.
That is.
That is the goal of thisindustry, right, I think?
On what I'll call the smallerboat space, the nmma type boats
of the world, type boats of theworld, they've done an amazing
(39:29):
job of always thinking how canwe make it easier for the wreck?
Kristina Hebert (39:30):
boater to go out there.
A wonderful experience.
Michelle Otero Valdes (39:32):
Yeah, exactly, get on the water and
look at some of the ceos thatthey've hired right the gal from
winnebago, for example, the Imean, when you start looking at
some of these people, you'relike they've done amazing job in
that space.
The 45 and under space yeah,right, no, it's true.
(39:52):
Now we need to do the same forthe 45 and over, and I think
we're very fragmented in thatregard.
I think that we need to getbeyond.
I don't view any other maritimelawyer as my competition.
I, in fact, look at them aslike a resource, because I may
(40:13):
not have the answer, but you mayhave experienced this, and I
think we need to be more openabout that.
I think we need to be more openabout that, you know, and it's
I don't.
I don't know what the reason isfor that, other than maybe just
plain old fear that I don'tknow, like, fear of like I'm
(40:36):
going to miss out on thisopportunity, but no, I'm the
first that's ready to be like.
Kristina Hebert (40:41):
You know what So-and and so may be I agree
suited for your needs at thispoint well, that's because
you're qualified, you'reprofessional and you're
confident in who you are andwhat you are, so you're not
intimidated by somebody who'sjust asking a question.
We all have an issue.
What I always say is I couldn'tservice every boat, even if I
wanted to.
If all of them came here andthey all only had my phone
(41:03):
number in their phones, underelectric, all it said was wards,
I would fail.
Michelle Otero Valdes (41:09):
Right.
Kristina Hebert (41:09):
Because I couldn't service every single
boat here.
So I need people that are inthe light business to be as
professional to take care of theboats because we need them as a
community.
I always remind people SouthFlorida is not a destination for
yachting.
People come here because theconcentration of services, goods
and our geographical locationto the Caribbean.
(41:33):
But they're coming here forthose purposes, and if we don't
make this a place for them, thenwe're going to all lose, like
you're saying.
So it's on all of us to helphave that experience.
Michelle Otero Valdes (41:43):
That's the one thing we don't want to
do is lose out.
So you don't know how manytimes I'll hear something along
the lines of because, remember,I'm physically based in Miami.
Oh, miami, such a crummy placeto get my boat worked on.
And then my response is PortLauderdale is right there.
(42:04):
It's literally right there.
Do you need me to make somecalls for you?
Kristina Hebert (42:09):
And, by the way , it's only like 18 miles away.
It's not like it's, but I hearthe opposite that well, I'm
going to be down in Miami.
Do you guys go there?
And it's like it's not aforeign land, it's 18 miles away
.
I mean, I'm gonna go to costarica.
If you need me to.
Wherever let's go, you know,wherever we need to be or
they'll be.
Michelle Otero Valdes (42:26):
Well, you know I tend to take my vessel,
uh, to say newport.
I go to newport.
You know there's no tax there,it's, it's a great place really.
How is?
How is the repair situationthere?
And they kind of like get realquiet Because everybody comes
from Fort Lauderdale, exactly.
(42:47):
So, look, I mean, at the end ofthe day, if we keep doing, we
keep our eye on the prize, whichis to make the owner love every
experience that he, she, they,whoever it may be family office,
they have an amazing time onthat boat.
(43:10):
You've got them hooked, I meanthis is an amazing thing to do.
Kristina Hebert (43:17):
We really are part of an amazing industry, not
to say that word too many times.
But on tariffs, let's go backto our.
Let's conclude.
Okay, tariffs, all right.
Don't be afraid to buy a boatin the US.
Don't shy away from boatingbecause of tariffs.
Don't shy away from any of it.
Buy American.
Yep, buy the boat.
What if I have a boat and I'mtrying to sell it right now?
(43:38):
As long as it's US flag, myboat's worth more money, correct
, so I'm sitting on somethingthat's worth a lot more now.
Correct, that's awesome.
That's a great thing, that is agreat thing.
So buy a boat, get a new boat,use it break it and call wards.
There you go.
Okay, sounds like Michelle,when you're ready to buy it and
sell it.
Thank you for being here today.
It was such a pleasure and Ireally love your perspective on
(44:01):
everything and being positiveand it's also realistic.
I know that, as women, we wespoke and we both have children
and all the things in front, butI do appreciate you giving up
your time and volunteering anddoing all that you do to help
our industry.
Michelle Otero Valdes (44:13):
so oh, thank you and thank you.
This was.
This was fun and we're I'mgonna invite you again, so we're
gonna have plenty of new topics.
Kristina Hebert (44:20):
You tell me the next time you want to talk
about it.
Wow, okay, okay, all right,sounds like a plan.
That's it, thank you.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you, good.
Michelle Otero Valdes (44:30):
Very good , was I good Excellent.
Kristina Hebert (44:34):
Yeah, okay, so good, producer Jordan.
So good, you got all thosenotes.
So how long have you been doingthis?
Do we look really professional,jesus, this is our third season
, so we did it the first season.
My dad was my first guest and Idid it.
That would make sense.
(44:54):
Yes, and I did it becausethat's wonderful, though that's
really wonderful.
It's our 75th and my wholesaying that first season was
that we made it to our 75th andmy whole saying that first
season was that we're we made itto our 75th anniversary.
But I don't want to be thosepeople that, like you, have you
ever walked into those storesand you see all the plaques that
like, like you can tell theypeaked at like 92.
(45:14):
But after that it's like it's2025.
You got any new awards up thereor anything?
Michelle Otero Valdes (45:18):
And.
Kristina Hebert (45:19):
I wanted it to be that we're just getting
started, so we're 75, so that'sa book we're not on this anymore
, so you that's a book that'sfor me to sign, that you were
here for season three.
Oh, it's just, there's nothingthat you have to do.
Um, so I wanted it.
The other thing is like I hiredI have a ton of new young like
engineers and they're great, butthey have no idea that there
(45:41):
was a bob Rossioli.
Oh, you know what I mean.
And so they think Rossioliyachting was sold to one water
yacht but they never met a BobRossioli.
Michelle Otero Valdes (45:49):
Right, and they that there was a real
human or George Cable Right orWard Right.
Kristina Hebert (45:55):
Or you know, and so I, I was like, wow, so I
just invited all the CEOs that Iknew of.
Wow, so I just invited all theCEOs that I knew of family
businesses.
Sure, and that was season one.
Okay, season two was just atthe boat show.
Yeah, and it was all differentthings, just people that came by
, and it was at Flibs, and thenI just thought this would be
good to do with all the stuffthat was CBP and tariffs.
(46:17):
We're talking about foreigntrade zones.
My one this morning was onUSLnh longshore, funny, I you
know.
So I just figured I would coverthe associations don't
necessarily have money to dothose things, um, so I had phil
purcell talking about the trainbridge or the tunnel, right, but
(46:37):
these are all issues and so I'mlike you know what, I don't
mind put it up, I'm a foundingmember of MISF, but at least
maybe we can send captains thistalking about tariffs, talking
about USLNH, talking about CBPor any of it.
So right, and I just think it'sfun to do so, and this was our
old building, as you know.
Michelle Otero Valdes (46:57):
yeah, I mean, I remember this was the
building I used to come to wayback in the day, right yeah, we
moved in 03.
Kristina Hebert (47:05):
So Okay, so we left it sitting here, and then I
just said, you know I wanted todo it.
Like well, I have a building,we'll turn it into a studio.
Michelle Otero Valdes (47:12):
Yeah.
Kristina Hebert (47:13):
And then Lee's made it happen.
There you go, so I'll send itout when it comes out and
everything It'll be on YouTube,cool.
Michelle Otero Valdes (47:24):
And it'll be on Spotify.
Oh dear, Any place you get yourpodcasts All of the iRadio
iHeartRadio, all of that, I know.
It's on all of the platforms.
Kristina Hebert (47:35):
Geez, we're just like If you're going to do
it, you've got to do it right.
Apparently, you know Well, andpeople don't think that of old
wards, marine, you know, andagain, we've been around a long
time but we still have to earnbusiness and we still need to be
out there and right, yeah, no,I totally, totally understand
that and, um, it's funny becauseyou would think that over the
(47:58):
years, the word of mouth and theword of mouth and the word of
mouth, you didn't know me untiluntil like a week ago, and now
I'm like we're like.
I'm like, oh my god, this womanis so like we're sisters from
another mother.
I didn't.
How is it that we have run inthe same right for 20, for
decades?
(48:19):
Our kids are even very similarin age.
Correct, I think my yeah, yes.
Michelle Otero Valdes (48:23):
Yes, how many do you have?
I've got two daughters, 26 and20.
And the other one just turned22.
Kristina Hebert (48:30):
Right and I'm two boys, 22 and 27.
Michelle Otero Valdes (48:32):
So it's like Right, they're like right
there, right.
Kristina Hebert (48:34):
So it was like yeah, thank you for joining us
this season on season three ofthe Ward's Way podcast.
Be sure you subscribe, becausethere's much more to come.
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