May 27, 2025 • 32 mins
The battle between progress and preservation takes center stage as Phil Purcell, president and CEO of the Marine Industries Association of South Florida, tackles one of the region's most pressing infrastructure challenges. This eye-opening discussion reveals how Fort Lauderdale's $18.5 billion marine industry and its 120,000+ jobs hang in the balance as decisions about railway bridges, tunnels, and transportation corridors shape the future of South Florida.
Phil pulls back the curtain on a decade-long infrastructure debate surrounding the Florida East Coast railway bridge over the New River. As passenger train service increases and marine traffic continues to grow, finding workable solutions becomes increasingly urgent. The conversation vividly illustrates how living in America's sixth-largest metropolitan area requires thoughtful infrastructure planning that accommodates multiple interests without sacrificing economic vitality.
What makes this episode particularly enlightening is Phil's pragmatic approach to problem-solving. Rather than taking hardline positions, he advocates for workable compromises - like a 40-foot bridge that could accommodate 80% of river traffic while remaining economically viable. His insights into the broader infrastructure needs, including grade separation at major east-west corridors, demonstrate how interconnected these systems truly are.
Beyond the technical aspects, this discussion highlights the marine industry's profound economic impact. The Fort Lauderdale International Boat Show alone delivers $1.8 billion in economic benefit to the state. Phil explains how entrepreneurs from Jim Moran to Mark Zuckerberg have been drawn to the region because of its vibrant marine ecosystem, underscoring what's truly at stake in these infrastructure decisions.
Whether you're involved in the marine industry, concerned about transportation planning, or simply interested in how communities navigate complex growth challenges, this conversation offers valuable perspective on balancing progress with preservation. Listen now to understand why, as Phil emphatically states, "doing nothing is not an option."
Wards Marine Electric
https://www.wardsmarine.com/
Wards Way YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@WardsWay75
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristina Hebert (00:00):
Welcome to the Season 3 Wards Way podcast,
where we're covering the hotlegislative topics of 2025.
From tariffs to tunnels andbridges, from foreign trade
zones to workers' compensation,to the Fort Lauderdale
International Boat Show, to theMarine Research Hub, industry
(00:22):
experts and clarification on theB-11, b2 visas.
Join us as we celebrate 75years in business and we're just
getting started.
So I'm sitting here today withPhil Purcell, president and CEO
of the Marine IndustriesAssociation of South Florida.
Boy, that's a lot to get out inone whole breath.
That is a big, big.
(00:43):
But one of the things that Ithink that Marine Industries
Association of South Floridadoesn't get enough credit for is
all the activities that you'reinvolved with, both yourself and
the staff involved with, in allof these unintended
consequences against ourindustry, so to speak, and not
that anything is being leviedagainst us or that it's the city
(01:04):
against the industry or thecounty against the industry, so
to speak, and not that anythingis being levied against us or
that it's the city against theindustry or the county against
the industry.
But we are an industry that'sliving in a very thriving
metropolitan area and there haveto be consequences to that that
we all need to live together.
So one of the top issues thatwe've talked about is the train
and the tunnel.
Talk to me about that and howthat's come about.
Phil Purcell (01:26):
So you know, bridge, tunnel, and so think of
it this way because you broughtup like economics and size and
metropolitan areas.
So when you think of that, we'rethe third largest state in the
nation, third largest state inthe nation sixth largest
metropolitan area, and it goessomething like Los Angeles,
chicago, new York, dallas,houston and then South Florida,
you know, palm Beach, miami andDade, the whole Tri-County, yeah
(01:47):
, the whole Tri-County area, andso we're the sixth largest
metropolitan area.
We have one way in, one way out, basically right, i-95.
You've got, you know, a railcorridor on the FEC and stuff.
And so Henry Flagler, back in1895, started bringing a
railroad down.
By the time 1912 hit, henryFlagler was all the way down to
Key West Pretty interestingright and so he had commuter
different things going on andobviously helped grow South
(02:09):
Florida.
So this has been on the people'smind since the 80s.
When Amtrak was trying to dosomething here and they wanted
to do it on the FEC corridor,they ended up doing it on the
CSX corridor, which then againin the 90s is when tri-rail came
in so to explain to people youhave.
Kristina Hebert (02:26):
you just said the FEC corridor.
Phil Purcell (02:28):
The FEC corridor is east and that's what runs
through all the major citiesPalm Beach, jacksonville,
downtowns, all the downtowns.
And then the CSX corridor runsabout 10 miles to the west along
I-95, which is wonderful.
However, that's not your urbancenters.
20 years ago, yeah, it was alittle bit better.
Right, there was nothing, butnow your urban centers.
(02:49):
You look at the developmentthat's taking place in Palm
Beach and in all the Browardcounties and then in Dade County
, it makes perfect sense toactivate this corridor, and so
they came up with a plan and inthat plan when they did it I was
not in this role at the time,but I was involved in the
industry and so we know, when weretrofitted our yard up the
river, we knew about the bridgethat was here you know, the FEC
(03:11):
bridge and the CSX bridge and itwas not a threat to us.
Usually it was in a defaultposition.
A freight train would go by andthings like that.
Kristina Hebert (03:17):
And this is going back how many years?
Just maybe 10 years.
Phil Purcell (03:20):
Yeah, it is 2013, 2014.
So we're about 10 years agowhen we're talking and it wasn't
really a threat to anyone.
Every once in a while somethingwould break.
No different than if a boatbreaks.
It's mechanical, it's going tofail, but they'd get it fixed.
And we didn't have a lot ofunintended consequences when
they bought Brightline on boardand stuff which was great.
(03:41):
At the end of the day, you needto figure out solutions.
Our industry, you know, waslike you know, get rid of that
damn bridge.
You know, make it go away.
They weren't exactlycooperative.
Kristina Hebert (03:49):
And why?
Why would our industry want todo that?
Now I will say from a practicalstandpoint aren't most of our
yards upriver from that bridge?
Phil Purcell (03:57):
100%.
But you've got to go back towhere we live, and so we live in
the sixth largest metropolitanarea in the country, and so what
we need was infrastructure,because all we had to do is look
west for the solutions.
I-95 crosses our river.
Do we ever talk about it?
Nope, because it's 55 feet.
Do we talk about tri-rail goingover river?
Nope, because it's 55 feet.
Do we even talk about the CSXbridge, which is right at Marina
(04:19):
Bay, and stuff?
No no we really don't talk aboutthat, because guess what?
Even when they repaired thatbridge or put a new bridge in,
they did it over a seven-dayperiod.
They notified us, we planned,it worked around it and it
worked.
All of a sudden, brightlinecomes in and, unfortunately, the
messaging was wrong fromBrightline.
Probably the message was wrongfrom electeds and the messaging
was, and a lot of it.
(04:39):
There wasn't a lot of awareness.
At the end of it, everyone waskind of rah, rah, we're going to
have this happen and this, andno one was paying for it except
a private company at the end ofthe day, brightline.
Sure, they had a vision and agood vision at the end of the
day, but I don't think everyonetook in all the unintended
consequences.
And then the infrastructurethat we really needed to make
sure that our industry survived,but not just our industry but
(05:00):
the communities that we all livein and play in and work in, and
so that I think now everyonefully understands.
And so when you look at all theeast-west corridors, just start
with State Road 84, then move upto Broward Boulevard.
That's the front door toBroward County.
Broward Boulevard, you drive in, you see all these beautiful
buildings.
The skyline didn't even exist.
The back door or the front doorfor our industry is Port
(05:22):
Everglades at the end of the day, right you come in, you go
under 17th Street and then upthe river.
That's our front door and whatmakes this community vibrant is
our industry.
At the end of the day, whenpeople get together and
developers have plans, nodisrespect but they don't go sit
out on 441 at a diner and plan.
This is the vision I have forFort Lauderdale.
They go over to Pier 66 orBahia Mar or some waterfront
(05:43):
location and say, if you moveyour company here, if you do
this, this is what you can haveand the backdrop, subconsciously
, is our industry every day, andso there's no charge for that.
If anything, we're a tax benefit, we're a contributor.
At the end of the day we'repositive.
So you go back to the FEC andthe corridor and stuff.
So again, our industry wasopposed to it and I was accused.
(06:05):
Actually, when I stepped intothis role, I quite honestly
didn't ask enough questions,christy, and you were involved
in the board at that time.
I should have asked morequestions, one of which what do
you have pending, other than wehad some problems with the
promoter at the time and theshow, but I didn't understand
the train scenario, and thetrain scenario was one that
people are passionate about.
Either you for it or you'retotally against it.
(06:26):
Our industry at the time wasagainst it from a business
perspective, not taking intoconsideration the infrastructure
that had been built to the westof them or before them as you
go up the river, that we had noproblems with whatsoever.
So we needed new infrastructure.
So we needed to startadvocating for that as we went
forward and that's what we'vebeen doing since, which is, you
(06:47):
know, one, we have to identifythe problem.
Two, you've got to get you knowwhoever's in that elected seat
for those two years, or whatevermany years it is, have to sit
with them and come up withsolutions for them, and
sometimes they don't have thesolutions.
Kristina Hebert (06:59):
So why is the railroad bridge a problem?
Not to interrupt, but let'stell everybody why is it a
problem.
We know.
Phil Purcell (07:04):
Yeah, here's the interesting thing.
So it's just like thenavigability of the river.
We can solve those things withour relationship with the Coast
Guard.
They're the ones that enforceyou.
Look at the Miami River.
It is a true commercial river.
You do not see boats parkedalong the river anymore.
For the most part it is veryclean.
Boats can come and go.
Now, when I say clean, when youget up the Miami river and
stuff, however, you still have avery commercial aspect in terms
(07:26):
of different freighters andstuff that pop in there, but
overall they're not as vibrantanymore either.
You know you've got Jones boatyard and RMK and stuff where you
know look how many yards wehave up the river here.
And the nice thing is we worktogether.
We help RMK out, we help Jonesboat yard or whoever else needs
help in Miami or in Palm Beachto find solutions to their
problems.
We've done the same thing here.
(07:48):
But I think the electeds at thetime, everyone was excited and
everyone likes a good ribboncutting and you show up and the
train comes through and you gofor a ride, but we needed the
infrastructure, and it wasn'tjust the bridge, whether it's a
bridge or a tunnel, and so,actually, the current mayor came
up with the idea of a tunnel.
Great idea, fantastic idea.
There's tunnels all over theworld, so we know that.
(08:09):
The Miami Tunnel we were justthrough it last week for the
Coast Guard changing of thecommand down there.
And that was nice.
And we went through the MiamiTunnel.
It's a wonderful thing, but itwas contracted and built over a
decade ago.
So to use costs of whatsomething cost over a decade ago
you know it's.
you can't do that.
You know well.
I bought a boat 12 years agoand it cost me $10.
(08:30):
Well, now it's $25 probably,you know so you can't.
I used to buy fuel for 25 cents.
It's irrelevant.
What's today going to cost?
So a tunnel?
We know from an engineeringperspective it can happen
without question, right, andthere's some give and take there
in terms of what someone has toreclaim and land and things
like that.
With the bridge, you know, youhave a hundred foot corridor,
basically, that the FEC owns,and there there's probably a
(08:52):
little bit of give and take.
We're told that there's not asmuch take with the bridge.
Regardless, there's give andtake.
But since you know, the last 10years, all of a sudden the
corridor around the FEC has beenbuilt up with condos and
rentals and things like that.
And we have to keep in mindwhen we think of Broward County,
we have Hollywood down there,you've got Wilton Manors, you've
got Oakland Park and as youcontinue to go north, those
(09:14):
people count on decisions too.
Palm Beach counts on a decisionfor our new river.
So does Miami count on thisdecision?
You know, and so we need tocome up with a solution that's
economically viable.
At the end of the day, you justcan't spend money, you know.
We're seeing this on thefederal level right now.
We have to be accountable towhat the dollars are spending.
These are your tax dollars, mytax dollars and our kids' future
(09:35):
.
At the end of the day.
And so if someone says, if yourkid says, hey, I need to get to
school, well, you've got a busthat the school picks you up
with right.
Or I could buy you a carwhatever it is a nice, safe car
with airbags and it's got a goodsafety rating.
Or you could probably buy thema Rolls Royce.
But does a Rolls Royce need toget to school?
No, you can accomplish it withsome other vehicle and it's the
(09:59):
same.
Here there's a tunnel andthere's a bridge, what we first
proposed because again, you lookat 55 feet up the river.
We proposed something moresolution oriented.
That's a bascule bridge thatwould open because we have power
lines and stuff and sailboatsand the power lines that are 80
feet.
So we again tried toaccommodate everyone.
A 56 foot bridge.
We also had an 80 foot bridgein there also.
(10:20):
Then that would never open.
You don't have to make itbascule, it comes in.
You know, bridge in there also.
Then that would never open, youdon't have to make it bascule,
it comes in, you know, at 80feet and would be an amazing
view of the city at the end.
But a lot of people tookexception to it.
Actually, some people actuallywere calling it based on the
previous administration.
They were calling it racist.
I don't think a bridge isracist at the end of the day,
nor do I think I-95 is racist,do I think it's built in urban
areas?
Yeah, all across this country,100%.
(10:43):
But that was part of the costof getting mass infrastructure
and mass transportationhappening.
But you know, if I ask theelecteds that represent the
areas close to us here, wherewe've built houses with Habitat
for Humanity in Cistrunk areaand things like that,
specifically ask them would abridge be racist?
Absolutely not.
We just want our constituentsto be able to get to work,
(11:04):
whether it's North or South, foran affordable price.
So Brightline comes in therethere, you know, they're a
private company.
They've raised money and theyneed infrastructure at the end
of the day and so right now theydo about 32 trains a day.
And the FEC, you know, when youlook at freight trains and
stuff, those primarily happen atnight Way back when there was
(11:25):
20-plus trains a day of freighttrains.
There's not anymore becausethey're longer.
Instead of being a mile and ahalf long, now they're four
miles long or two and a halfmiles long, and so less trains.
But it's a very importantsegment of our industry, of this
community, of having a porthere, a port in Palm Beach and a
port in Miami.
(11:50):
So, everything that we get.
You know, the number one importto Port Everglades is fuel.
The number one import is also.
Second import is yachts at theend of the day.
So you know, when it comes toexports, you have clothing and
other textiles.
That's the number one import.
We're third on the export foryachts.
We'd like to get higher on thatright, because that gets back
to manufacturing and stuff.
(12:10):
But the bridge or a tunnel is acritical thing.
So a lot of people took anaspirational approach, like I
used with the cars as areference to get your kid to
school, where a bus can get yourkid to school also.
And whether it's a 56-footbridge or an 80-foot bridge,
what we came up with was a40-foot bridge as a compromise
to not dividing a city and withthat it'll clear 80% of our
(12:30):
traffic at the end of the day,keeping in mind there's still
four vehicular bridges on theriver.
That average plus minus 20 feet.
They're still going to open alot more and they open 30-plus
times a day, as it is foranything.
Just because they're 20 feet, A40-foot bridge, a lot of the
100-foot boats, a lot of my oldbrand they'll clear.
They have air drafts of 34 feet,35 feet so they'll clear, and
(12:52):
that's a good thing.
And then the tugs obviouslynavigate them both up and down
the river, depending on tides.
So there's a solution with a40-foot bridge.
Some of the pushback initiallywas they came up with the MPO
and everyone came back withlet's do a 26-foot bridge.
So all we're doing is addinganother impediment.
It doesn't clear enough traffic.
(13:12):
We already know from thevehicular traffic it goes
30-plus times a day.
So 40 feet.
We're still going to have tostop for the vehicular bridges
and for the CSX if it were inthe down position.
But the nice thing about it,it'll clear 80% of the traffic.
The problem was they said thegrade couldn't be met.
The freight will never go onthat raised bridge of 40 feet.
(13:33):
It will stay low.
With a tunnel it's the samething.
A lot of the advocates for thetunnel people were saying well,
we could put freight down below.
Never gonna happen.
One because of grade, twobecause of hazardous materials.
So we have to take that off thetable.
And we finally did.
We had the FEC on with arecently elected official and
said we'll never let freight runthrough a tunnel.
Fact right.
(13:55):
Not fiction, when sometimespeople get in front of an
audience and say we can do this,this and this with a tunnel and
believe me, we're all for thetunnel, but you've got to get
into the economics of it.
So we used references all thetime to a tunnel that happened
in Miami over a decade ago andthat was contracted over a
decade ago at a whole differentcost structure and it was built
for under 900 million I think itwas 888 million and it doesn't
(14:16):
have a train going through iteither and, equally important,
we'll never have freight goingthrough it.
So, in trying to find aworkable solution because again
we have to find solutions- forinfrastructure.
We said, hey, what about a40-foot bridge?
40-foot bridge landed beforeBroward Boulevard and it would
probably close 6th Street goingsouth, but it'll go over the
river at 40 feet and then it'llclear 80% of our traffic.
(14:40):
They said 4% grade issue Go toMiami, it goes up at a 4% grade,
so we know it can do it.
And around the world it alsogoes up at a higher grade than
4%.
So we know that they can dothat with commuter rail and
that's what they came back with.
The county did actually Goodchoice, so it solves the problem
in terms of it's still going tocross at grade at Broward, so
(15:00):
this gets into the East Westcorridor issues.
So think of it this way You'vegot Commercial Oakland Park,
sunrise, broward Boulevard andState Route 84.
They all stop, they're going tocontinue.
Whether we have a tunnel or abridge, every one of those
things other than Broward wouldstop for traffic.
So we need to start buildingthe infrastructure, either
overpasses or underpasses, atthose corridors too, because
(15:23):
whether it's a tunnel or abridge, we have to solve
everyone else.
It's just not Fort Lauderdalethat, you know, is being
impacted by commuter rail andfreight, it's everyone, and so
let's find the solutions.
It's an infrastructure problem,not a which is better that we
can afford.
What we can afford is probablyjust a bridge.
Let's make it the most iconicbridge that's ever been built.
Kristina Hebert (15:46):
I agree and you know a couple of points.
On that One, I think it was JimNoggle who, former mayor and
actually a former board memberof the marine industries, told
me how at one point and a yardowner that's correct that 17th
street bridge at one point wasthought to be a tunnel, and what
a mistake that would have been.
Had that become a tunnel,people would have missed being
(16:07):
able to go up and over, peoplewould miss being able to see the
inlet, and it's such an iconicdrive and such an iconic spot to
be able to see, like you said,our front door into the yachting
capital of the world, and wewould have missed all of that
had it been a tunnel.
Phil Purcell (16:21):
So sometimes Well, what's funny is is again a lot
of people that electeds havecome back and said well, the
marine industry endorsed the 55foot bridge on 17th street
because right now they're havingproblems with that bridge at
rush hours and stuff and, as youknow, the the bridges, unless a
boat's under tug, is going tostay closed between 7 and 9 am
and 4 and 6, which causes somebackups of different things I
(16:44):
get, but the industry reallytries to accommodate that at the
end of the day, however, the17th Street Bridge has been
opening a lot more Well, one youjust finish, or finishing Pier
66 construction, which puts howmany hundreds of workers there
on a daily basis, and that youknow went seamlessly.
The redevelopment of theconvention center at the same
(17:04):
time.
So, now that corridor on bothsides has had a tremendous
amount of construction, inaddition to the redevelopment
that's happening all up on thebeach.
And they all come across 17thStreet, right.
So what we were told was hey,the industry said it was okay at
55 feet and it wouldn't open asmuch.
That's not a true statement.
The citizens made a choice.
They could have had a tunnel ora bridge.
They voted for a bridge andthey got the benefits of the
(17:26):
view and everything else.
With that said, we'veidentified, actually, some boats
that actually are causing a lotof these openings, especially
at the later time the four tosix and they have masts, and
everyone again assumed that itwas a big yacht pulling away
from BMR or Pier 66 that wasmaking those bridges open, and
that's not the case.
It's actually boats with masksthat go out for sunset tours.
(17:47):
So my argument is why don't wesit with them first and talk to
them thoughtfully and say, hey,is there a way to work around
this?
Sure.
Because again, the locals weretrying to say, hey, we need to
curb the industry and shut itdown between 4 and 6 pm more.
And that's not acceptable,because the Coast Guard steps in
and says, no, we got to havesafe navigation.
(18:11):
You can't sit on the other side, the south side of the 17th
Street Bridge, and hold a150-foot or 200-foot boat for an
hour sitting there when you'vegot a security zone right behind
you with cruise ships, cruiseships coming and going, all the
other things that happen thatcome into that port.
Now we have a boat that comesin the port that's on liquid gas
.
So again, there's a lot ofother things to take into
consideration.
And then, as you know, tides,whether ingoing or outgoing.
(18:32):
So again, we're working withthe locals trying to come up
with a solution for that bridge.
But it is not what peopleperceive in the industry.
It's a lot of boats with maststhat are opening it.
So my argument is let's go sitwith them first.
Kristina Hebert (18:47):
And so is it sitting with specific
neighborhoods, sitting withspecific, like you were saying,
businesses, those that are kindof going out.
I think it's a little bit ofboth.
But, it's an important elementof the industry.
You mentioned safety.
People don't seem to realizewhen we talk about the new river
is you just mentioned a largeboat having to be able to, you
(19:08):
know, stay off the bridge andcounteract the tides that's
coming in and out of the port.
Imagine over here around thebend, when you're trying to head
downriver, let's say, out ofone of the yards, even if you're
under tow, if those bridgeswere not able to go up, or the
cycle time is so long as it iswith the railroad bridge, those
are huge safety hazards.
(19:29):
Talk about that.
I mean the Coast Guard's got tobe supportive of modifying this
bridge for that reason too.
Phil Purcell (19:35):
So the Coast Guard won't weigh on the bridge.
Kristina Hebert (19:37):
They won't weigh in on that.
Phil Purcell (19:38):
They will weigh in on the navigation and the time
allotted to us.
Kristina Hebert (19:41):
And that's fine , that's fine, that's fair.
And so we understand that.
So it's a way and it's not aposition on the train, whether
it's a tunnel or a bridge orwhat height bridge or anything
else we're going to get our fairshare of time to be able to
operate our businesses.
Phil Purcell (19:55):
That's the key Predictable openings,
predictable times.
Look, we all work on schedules.
At the end of the day, youremployees have to be there by
7.30.
They leave at 4.30,.
Whatever it may be, if you'recatching a flight, you know
you've got to be there.
Although flights do run alittle late, you're supposed to
be there at 4.15 if it's takenoff, and sometimes it doesn't.
So it's the same.
Here we need a predictableopening on top of every hour and
stuff that way the tugs, peopledeparting any of the yards.
(20:17):
You've got, as you know,different tide heights, things
like that.
Current's going in, going out.
So we just need thatpredictable opening that says,
okay, at 8 am, at 10 am, at 9 am.
All these things are going tohappen every day at this time
and if it doesn't happen at thattime, there's got to be a
consequence.
You know we pay anytime there'sa bridge failure.
Our industry pays.
It's funny how it never breaksin the open position.
(20:38):
It usually breaks in the downposition.
Gotcha and so and again, noconspiracy theory.
I get it, but we need to findsolutions.
That's why, again, tunnel orbridge With a tunnel, I'm all
for it.
It's just the economics aren'tgoing to pencil out.
So a bridge, let's get a newrailroad bridge.
Let's make it iconic looking.
It's still going to be low andthat's going to handle the
(20:59):
freight.
Kristina Hebert (21:06):
And let's get a new 40-foot vehicular bridge or
other bridge that canaccommodate 80% of our traffic.
And what do we think abouttiming on any of this?
I mean, it's been 10 years.
Are we thinking another 10years?
You see my hair.
Phil Purcell (21:13):
There'll probably be none left by the time it
starts, but that said yeah, it'sa minimum of 10 years, but we
have to get going now.
I mean, let's do it in today'sdollars too.
Let's get things bid outbecause it is a process.
So right now the county is aperfect example, broward County.
They've been trying to make anagreement with the city and,
knowing that the othercommunities in Broward County
(21:33):
want this to happen, as doesPalm Beach, as does Miami, they
went ahead last week and movedthe North Corridor forward.
That means to PD&E studies.
So planning design andengineering.
So they'll go ahead and startdoing their e-studies.
So planning design andengineering, okay, so they'll go
ahead and start doing their.
And they dedicated, I think,$20 million to do this, to go do
their studies that they need toplan design and then engineer
and then environmental impactsand all those things I get.
(21:55):
There's going to be someimpacts.
There's bigger impacts by doingnothing.
Correct but it should gosimultaneously with the
mitigation of Broward BoulevardEast-West, with, you know,
Sunrise East-West commercial.
Kristina Hebert (22:06):
What do you mean?
Phil Purcell (22:06):
by that.
So think about it when a traingoes by, we'll have a bridge.
So our river, let's say it's abridge 40-foot bridge, We'll
have a predictable thing we havethe Coast Guard, has our back
and stuff right, so we know whenthe openings will be.
It'll actually create a lotmore.
You'll still have to stop forthe other bridges, but it'll
create a lot more benefits toget to those other bridges
(22:28):
quicker.
That said, when the traffichappens, I mean again, look at
how much Lauderdale has grown.
Look at the construction.
There's 7,000 new residentsjust being built in the corridor
right around where our officeis right around this area along
the FEC, so we have to havesomething for the traffic to
move to.
Not everyone's going to get on abike.
Not everyone's going to walkright, and so they need to build
(22:48):
the infrastructure there,whether it's an underpass or
it's an overpass.
Go to PGA Boulevard.
I don't know if you've been upthere lately.
They've got a mall, they've gotCarmine's Restaurant, which is
wonderful, and you've got somegolfers that live out there on
Jupiter Island and what have you.
But that's about it.
But they have a flyover on PGABoulevard already They've had it
(23:08):
for over a decade where youdon't have to stop for the FEC
tracks.
So why would us, as a majormetropolitan area in Palm Beach
and other places, not have thesame thing?
It makes no sense.
So that's where we need to pushon the electeds.
Let's get the infrastructure.
Let's quit arguing aboutwhether it's a tunnel bridge.
(23:31):
Let's make it the best productit's going to be.
If it is a bridge, let's makeit iconic, because you go in
Miami and you look at howtri-rail goes over the river
there.
That's iconic at the end of theday.
And there's other places in theworld where bridges can be
iconic also.
But let's move past thearguments that we have or the
reasons.
If it's not economically viable, then we need to move it
forward, and if that means abridge, 40-foot bridge can work
for our industry, work for thecommunity, but we also have to
(23:51):
solve the problems.
All your people, they live inthis community.
When they go on calls.
You know everyone else, all thepeople that work in lawyers'
offices and doctors' offices.
Let's get them theinfrastructure that they need on
Broward Boulevard, onCommercial Boulevard, on Sunrise
Boulevard, and that means aflyover and underpass.
That way they don't stop for it.
Kristina Hebert (24:09):
How do people stay involved on this?
I'm pretty sure there's not awebsite centrally located to
find out this information.
Clearly, become a member ofMISF.
I think that that's important,even if you're not in the marine
industry.
It's $500.
It's $500.
But at the end of the day, it'salso the reality is probably
one of your clients has abusiness in the marine industry.
(24:30):
Regardless of what you do, Ithink what are we?
The two degrees away from PhilPurcell?
Not Kevin Bacon?
Yeah exactly and I think that.
So finding out that informationbecoming a part of the trade
association, is there anythingon FDOT or City of Fort
Lauderdale?
Or reach out to yourlegislators and say, hey, I want
a bridge and I need a solution,because the one thing I've
heard is the worst thing thatcan happen.
(24:51):
The absolute worst solution iswe do nothing 100%.
Phil Purcell (24:55):
Yeah, doing nothing is not an option, and so
we employ three full-timelobbyists so one on the local
level, one on the state level,one on the federal level and
they're actively involved whenwe need them in different issues
here to communicate to theelecteds and other people how
important a solution is.
You know, again, it reallydidn't make a difference to us
whether it was a tunnel or abridge.
We need a solution, and we needone that we can afford to pay
(25:17):
for.
That said, it seems to beleaning towards, you know,
perhaps a bridge.
Let's make it the most iconicbridge in terms of what people
can do.
As you just said, if you're acar dealer, if you're a lawyer,
if you're a dentist, the busiestpublic's in the systems on 17th
Street.
This also is a comment aboutour industry too.
The busiest total wine is on17th Street also, but that's a
(25:40):
good thing, right?
And so we know that when theboat show's in town, it's really
important for the boat showthat we get a solution on the
river also.
So here's an economic driverthat delivers a billion-aid
economic benefit to the state,does over $800 million in direct
sales over five days andsupports this $18.5 billion
industry that we all work in, ofwhich 9.8 of that $18.5 billion
(26:01):
between Palm Beach and Miami,9.8 of it's in Broward County.
So the bulk of it's in BrowardCounty, so the bulk of it's in
Broward County.
Kristina Hebert (26:06):
And how many jobs.
Phil Purcell (26:07):
Over 100,000 jobs, 142 regionally, about 120 just
in Broward.
Kristina Hebert (26:11):
Just in Broward County alone, just in Broward
yeah.
Phil Purcell (26:13):
I mean, look at your employee ranks and stuff.
Look how you guys have grownand you think of the changes up
the river with different people,people that we've known for
years, that have either leftthis world or sold.
And now new companies and newvisions have come in and they're
putting the CapEx required thatwe need and they're assembling
for the future at the end of theday.
Now you know, marina Companywas just acquired by a private
(26:36):
equity group again paid recordprice right $5.4 billion.
Two of the acquisitions wereabout $700 million two years ago
, meaning LMC and.
Rybovich, they were about $700million of cost.
I assume that they traded at ahigher dollar amount than $5.4
billion at the end of the day,so it shows you how important
(26:58):
our industry is.
Kristina Hebert (26:59):
Absolutely.
Phil Purcell (27:00):
But yeah, if they get involved in the association,
that would be great.
It's a member-drivenassociation.
You've been around it, Christy,forever.
It's a great association.
It's well-funded.
It's always had the community'sbenefit also at heart too, not
just the industry, Obviously,the industry is the driver, but
the community is important too.
(27:21):
You want where your people aregoing to work to be viable.
So we got behind the parks bond.
We got behind the police bond.
You know new police station.
The police station used to be,you know, driven with mold and
stuff, so the police actuallyduring hurricanes would evacuate
when the police were leavingtheir own police station.
So then they got a brand newstation the parks.
Everyone wants to see greeneryin parks and things like that.
(27:41):
So even where our offices are,we can walk over to Broward
County, we can walk over towherever the new city hall is,
where they're planning it in theold city hall place for
Lauderdale, and it's reallyimportant that our industry is
respected in a thoughtful way,because I think our industry is
so viable to this community andSouth Florida as a whole.
When you look at theentrepreneurs that are bringing
(28:02):
their boats here and stuff andyou think of the Huzinga family
and you think of the Moranfamily, southeast Toyota.
They were big boaters who builtmore fed ships than Jim Moran
Nobody.
When you look at the Huzingafamily, again, the community has
been great benefactors of that.
Who built more fed ships thanJim Moran?
Nobody.
When you look at the Zingafamily, again, great, the
community has been greatbenefactors of that, whether it
was through the Dolphins,through the Marlins, through the
Panthers, and so they broughtsports here, they brought
(28:25):
businesses here, autonation, allthese different things, but
they love boats.
So now you look at all theother entrepreneurs that have
moved here, that have have boatshere, that are keeping them
here.
So you know Zuckerberg, youknow his boats pass through
Launchpad.
Bezos' boat passes through here.
David McNeil from WeatherTechyou know he has a residence here
, keeps his boat here.
Those are the people we canengage from the soft side of
(28:47):
life too, to get involved in acommunity from a philanthropic
side, because there's a lot ofneeds here that philanthropy
helped with and our industry is,is is shouldered up with all
those people because we servicetheir boats well, I think one
thing that's always been umimportant to you and a priority
is also that the marine industrybe a part of the community and
be a part of the solutions inthat community.
Kristina Hebert (29:08):
So you brought up habitat for humanity, that
we've been involved in some ofthose builds, even the
neighborhood corporate buildyeah, the Broward Alliance.
Making sure that I can remembera time and I'm looking over at
patients here, that's okay, I'mjust going to reference you on
the camera.
I can remember-.
Phil Purcell (29:24):
We've got thousands of people out here in
the audience there's thousands.
Kristina Hebert (29:26):
Yeah, I had him turn down the applause thing.
Yeah, I appreciate that you.
It can be distracting that.
I can remember on the front ofthe Broward Alliance annual
report.
It was aviation, it was tourismand Marine was missing.
That never happens againanymore because I believe that
people have really startedpaying attention to that.
Some of the things that you'vedone on the, on the, the top
(29:50):
listings in the Marine BusinessJournal.
Phil Purcell (29:55):
Yeah, South Florida.
Kristina Hebert (29:56):
South Florida Business Journal and making sure
that the companies and showingagain trying to portray the
marine industry so much more asan industry versus a lifestyle
and we talk about that a lotbecause so many people get
caught up in the lifestyle thatour industry portrays.
But we are an industry, we havebusinesses and for me, without
an association that's protectingand helping me understand that
(30:19):
there will be a push for abridge, how could I be in
business for 75 years and I'mnot the only company.
My neighbors, frank and Jimmy'sand Jimmy's been on this have
been in business 76 years andyou look at, a lot of the
businesses that make up thisyachting capital of the world
are family businesses and wecouldn't do that without the
support and all of ourlegislators understanding our
(30:41):
industry.
Phil Purcell (30:41):
So A hundred percent, and so the team at the
Marine Industry Association is awonderful team.
Faces change over the years,but again, as long as the
mission stays the same, that'sthe most important thing, and I
really believe that we arereally good stewards and leaders
in this community and that'simportant to be respected.
It's one thing to be liked.
You know, leadership's not apopularity contest.
(31:02):
At the end of the day, that'strue.
You know I like being liked.
But more importantly, let's beeffective and sometimes just
like Tunnel Bridge.
I'm sure there's some peoplethat are ruffled if it goes one
way or the other, but we need asolution and that's what we're
advocating.
Kristina Hebert (31:14):
Is there any kind of write-in?
Sorry to go back to it, but Ido want to close on this topic.
Is there any kind of write-in?
Are there comment periods Arethere?
I kind of remember they weredoing hearings.
We keep referring to a they,but I'm not sure who it was.
I think it's FDOT or the MPOthey, but is that something that
people should be encouraged?
I know I had FDOT come out tomy company in the neighborhood
(31:36):
because they were talking aboutwhat the infrastructure will do
and there's also a walking paththat's going to run along this
corridor.
And, to be honest, you know I'drather know what's going on.
But I mean, it was all verywell explained whether it was a
20-foot or a 40-foot.
It was actually more intrusiveif it was going to be the tunnel
.
But 40 foot it was actuallymore intrusive if it was going
(31:56):
to be the tunnel.
But I'm still okay with that ifthat's what the money was there
for and it's going to be forthe long term of our industry.
But there will be town hallmeetings, there will be comments
that people need to make andthere'll be a call to action, or
is it?
Phil Purcell (32:06):
Yeah, there'll be all those things.
So, as they go through the PD&E, all those things will happen
again, and so we need to bethere and have a positive voice.
It doesn't have to be athousand people, it just needs
to be thoughtful, it needs to beon point, you know, at the end
of the day, on point about thejobs that it creates, on point
of protecting the jobs, on pointthe importance of our industry
and that we live in the sixthlargest metropolitan area.
(32:28):
And the only thing we'remissing.
we wouldn't even be having thisconversation if it wasn't for
infrastructure Right.
Kristina Hebert (32:34):
Well, thank you for all that you do and thank
you on behalf of the MarineIndustries Association and we
appreciate you being ourstrongest advocate out there.
Phil Purcell (32:41):
Appreciate it, Kristen.
Thanks for everything.
Absolutely.
Kristina Hebert (32:44):
Thank you for joining us this season on season
three of the Wardsway Podcast.
Be sure you subscribe becausethere's much more to come.
Welcome to the Season 3 Wards Way podcast,
where we're covering the hotlegislative topics of 2025.
From tariffs to tunnels andbridges, from foreign trade
zones to workers' compensation,to the Fort Lauderdale
International Boat Show, to theMarine Research Hub, industry
(00:22):
experts and clarification on theB-11, b2 visas.
Join us as we celebrate 75years in business and we're just
getting started.
So I'm sitting here today withPhil Purcell, president and CEO
of the Marine IndustriesAssociation of South Florida.
Boy, that's a lot to get out inone whole breath.
That is a big, big.
(00:43):
But one of the things that Ithink that Marine Industries
Association of South Floridadoesn't get enough credit for is
all the activities that you'reinvolved with, both yourself and
the staff involved with, in allof these unintended
consequences against ourindustry, so to speak, and not
that anything is being leviedagainst us or that it's the city
(01:04):
against the industry or thecounty against the industry, so
to speak, and not that anythingis being levied against us or
that it's the city against theindustry or the county against
the industry.
But we are an industry that'sliving in a very thriving
metropolitan area and there haveto be consequences to that that
we all need to live together.
So one of the top issues thatwe've talked about is the train
and the tunnel.
Talk to me about that and howthat's come about.
Phil Purcell (01:26):
So you know, bridge, tunnel, and so think of
it this way because you broughtup like economics and size and
metropolitan areas.
So when you think of that, we'rethe third largest state in the
nation, third largest state inthe nation sixth largest
metropolitan area, and it goessomething like Los Angeles,
chicago, new York, dallas,houston and then South Florida,
you know, palm Beach, miami andDade, the whole Tri-County, yeah
(01:47):
, the whole Tri-County area, andso we're the sixth largest
metropolitan area.
We have one way in, one way out, basically right, i-95.
You've got, you know, a railcorridor on the FEC and stuff.
And so Henry Flagler, back in1895, started bringing a
railroad down.
By the time 1912 hit, henryFlagler was all the way down to
Key West Pretty interestingright and so he had commuter
different things going on andobviously helped grow South
(02:09):
Florida.
So this has been on the people'smind since the 80s.
When Amtrak was trying to dosomething here and they wanted
to do it on the FEC corridor,they ended up doing it on the
CSX corridor, which then againin the 90s is when tri-rail came
in so to explain to people youhave.
Kristina Hebert (02:26):
you just said the FEC corridor.
Phil Purcell (02:28):
The FEC corridor is east and that's what runs
through all the major citiesPalm Beach, jacksonville,
downtowns, all the downtowns.
And then the CSX corridor runsabout 10 miles to the west along
I-95, which is wonderful.
However, that's not your urbancenters.
20 years ago, yeah, it was alittle bit better.
Right, there was nothing, butnow your urban centers.
(02:49):
You look at the developmentthat's taking place in Palm
Beach and in all the Browardcounties and then in Dade County
, it makes perfect sense toactivate this corridor, and so
they came up with a plan and inthat plan when they did it I was
not in this role at the time,but I was involved in the
industry and so we know, when weretrofitted our yard up the
river, we knew about the bridgethat was here you know, the FEC
(03:11):
bridge and the CSX bridge and itwas not a threat to us.
Usually it was in a defaultposition.
A freight train would go by andthings like that.
Kristina Hebert (03:17):
And this is going back how many years?
Just maybe 10 years.
Phil Purcell (03:20):
Yeah, it is 2013, 2014.
So we're about 10 years agowhen we're talking and it wasn't
really a threat to anyone.
Every once in a while somethingwould break.
No different than if a boatbreaks.
It's mechanical, it's going tofail, but they'd get it fixed.
And we didn't have a lot ofunintended consequences when
they bought Brightline on boardand stuff which was great.
(03:41):
At the end of the day, you needto figure out solutions.
Our industry, you know, waslike you know, get rid of that
damn bridge.
You know, make it go away.
They weren't exactlycooperative.
Kristina Hebert (03:49):
And why?
Why would our industry want todo that?
Now I will say from a practicalstandpoint aren't most of our
yards upriver from that bridge?
Phil Purcell (03:57):
100%.
But you've got to go back towhere we live, and so we live in
the sixth largest metropolitanarea in the country, and so what
we need was infrastructure,because all we had to do is look
west for the solutions.
I-95 crosses our river.
Do we ever talk about it?
Nope, because it's 55 feet.
Do we talk about tri-rail goingover river?
Nope, because it's 55 feet.
Do we even talk about the CSXbridge, which is right at Marina
(04:19):
Bay, and stuff?
No no we really don't talk aboutthat, because guess what?
Even when they repaired thatbridge or put a new bridge in,
they did it over a seven-dayperiod.
They notified us, we planned,it worked around it and it
worked.
All of a sudden, brightlinecomes in and, unfortunately, the
messaging was wrong fromBrightline.
Probably the message was wrongfrom electeds and the messaging
was, and a lot of it.
(04:39):
There wasn't a lot of awareness.
At the end of it, everyone waskind of rah, rah, we're going to
have this happen and this, andno one was paying for it except
a private company at the end ofthe day, brightline.
Sure, they had a vision and agood vision at the end of the
day, but I don't think everyonetook in all the unintended
consequences.
And then the infrastructurethat we really needed to make
sure that our industry survived,but not just our industry but
(05:00):
the communities that we all livein and play in and work in, and
so that I think now everyonefully understands.
And so when you look at all theeast-west corridors, just start
with State Road 84, then move upto Broward Boulevard.
That's the front door toBroward County.
Broward Boulevard, you drive in, you see all these beautiful
buildings.
The skyline didn't even exist.
The back door or the front doorfor our industry is Port
(05:22):
Everglades at the end of the day, right you come in, you go
under 17th Street and then upthe river.
That's our front door and whatmakes this community vibrant is
our industry.
At the end of the day, whenpeople get together and
developers have plans, nodisrespect but they don't go sit
out on 441 at a diner and plan.
This is the vision I have forFort Lauderdale.
They go over to Pier 66 orBahia Mar or some waterfront
(05:43):
location and say, if you moveyour company here, if you do
this, this is what you can haveand the backdrop, subconsciously
, is our industry every day, andso there's no charge for that.
If anything, we're a tax benefit, we're a contributor.
At the end of the day we'repositive.
So you go back to the FEC andthe corridor and stuff.
So again, our industry wasopposed to it and I was accused.
(06:05):
Actually, when I stepped intothis role, I quite honestly
didn't ask enough questions,christy, and you were involved
in the board at that time.
I should have asked morequestions, one of which what do
you have pending, other than wehad some problems with the
promoter at the time and theshow, but I didn't understand
the train scenario, and thetrain scenario was one that
people are passionate about.
Either you for it or you'retotally against it.
(06:26):
Our industry at the time wasagainst it from a business
perspective, not taking intoconsideration the infrastructure
that had been built to the westof them or before them as you
go up the river, that we had noproblems with whatsoever.
So we needed new infrastructure.
So we needed to startadvocating for that as we went
forward and that's what we'vebeen doing since, which is, you
(06:47):
know, one, we have to identifythe problem.
Two, you've got to get you knowwhoever's in that elected seat
for those two years, or whatevermany years it is, have to sit
with them and come up withsolutions for them, and
sometimes they don't have thesolutions.
Kristina Hebert (06:59):
So why is the railroad bridge a problem?
Not to interrupt, but let'stell everybody why is it a
problem.
We know.
Phil Purcell (07:04):
Yeah, here's the interesting thing.
So it's just like thenavigability of the river.
We can solve those things withour relationship with the Coast
Guard.
They're the ones that enforceyou.
Look at the Miami River.
It is a true commercial river.
You do not see boats parkedalong the river anymore.
For the most part it is veryclean.
Boats can come and go.
Now, when I say clean, when youget up the Miami river and
stuff, however, you still have avery commercial aspect in terms
(07:26):
of different freighters andstuff that pop in there, but
overall they're not as vibrantanymore either.
You know you've got Jones boatyard and RMK and stuff where you
know look how many yards wehave up the river here.
And the nice thing is we worktogether.
We help RMK out, we help Jonesboat yard or whoever else needs
help in Miami or in Palm Beachto find solutions to their
problems.
We've done the same thing here.
(07:48):
But I think the electeds at thetime, everyone was excited and
everyone likes a good ribboncutting and you show up and the
train comes through and you gofor a ride, but we needed the
infrastructure, and it wasn'tjust the bridge, whether it's a
bridge or a tunnel, and so,actually, the current mayor came
up with the idea of a tunnel.
Great idea, fantastic idea.
There's tunnels all over theworld, so we know that.
(08:09):
The Miami Tunnel we were justthrough it last week for the
Coast Guard changing of thecommand down there.
And that was nice.
And we went through the MiamiTunnel.
It's a wonderful thing, but itwas contracted and built over a
decade ago.
So to use costs of whatsomething cost over a decade ago
you know it's.
you can't do that.
You know well.
I bought a boat 12 years agoand it cost me $10.
(08:30):
Well, now it's $25 probably,you know so you can't.
I used to buy fuel for 25 cents.
It's irrelevant.
What's today going to cost?
So a tunnel?
We know from an engineeringperspective it can happen
without question, right, andthere's some give and take there
in terms of what someone has toreclaim and land and things
like that.
With the bridge, you know, youhave a hundred foot corridor,
basically, that the FEC owns,and there there's probably a
(08:52):
little bit of give and take.
We're told that there's not asmuch take with the bridge.
Regardless, there's give andtake.
But since you know, the last 10years, all of a sudden the
corridor around the FEC has beenbuilt up with condos and
rentals and things like that.
And we have to keep in mindwhen we think of Broward County,
we have Hollywood down there,you've got Wilton Manors, you've
got Oakland Park and as youcontinue to go north, those
(09:14):
people count on decisions too.
Palm Beach counts on a decisionfor our new river.
So does Miami count on thisdecision?
You know, and so we need tocome up with a solution that's
economically viable.
At the end of the day, you justcan't spend money, you know.
We're seeing this on thefederal level right now.
We have to be accountable towhat the dollars are spending.
These are your tax dollars, mytax dollars and our kids' future
(09:35):
.
At the end of the day.
And so if someone says, if yourkid says, hey, I need to get to
school, well, you've got a busthat the school picks you up
with right.
Or I could buy you a carwhatever it is a nice, safe car
with airbags and it's got a goodsafety rating.
Or you could probably buy thema Rolls Royce.
But does a Rolls Royce need toget to school?
No, you can accomplish it withsome other vehicle and it's the
(09:59):
same.
Here there's a tunnel andthere's a bridge, what we first
proposed because again, you lookat 55 feet up the river.
We proposed something moresolution oriented.
That's a bascule bridge thatwould open because we have power
lines and stuff and sailboatsand the power lines that are 80
feet.
So we again tried toaccommodate everyone.
A 56 foot bridge.
We also had an 80 foot bridgein there also.
(10:20):
Then that would never open.
You don't have to make itbascule, it comes in.
You know, bridge in there also.
Then that would never open, youdon't have to make it bascule,
it comes in, you know, at 80feet and would be an amazing
view of the city at the end.
But a lot of people tookexception to it.
Actually, some people actuallywere calling it based on the
previous administration.
They were calling it racist.
I don't think a bridge isracist at the end of the day,
nor do I think I-95 is racist,do I think it's built in urban
areas?
Yeah, all across this country,100%.
(10:43):
But that was part of the costof getting mass infrastructure
and mass transportationhappening.
But you know, if I ask theelecteds that represent the
areas close to us here, wherewe've built houses with Habitat
for Humanity in Cistrunk areaand things like that,
specifically ask them would abridge be racist?
Absolutely not.
We just want our constituentsto be able to get to work,
(11:04):
whether it's North or South, foran affordable price.
So Brightline comes in therethere, you know, they're a
private company.
They've raised money and theyneed infrastructure at the end
of the day and so right now theydo about 32 trains a day.
And the FEC, you know, when youlook at freight trains and
stuff, those primarily happen atnight Way back when there was
(11:25):
20-plus trains a day of freighttrains.
There's not anymore becausethey're longer.
Instead of being a mile and ahalf long, now they're four
miles long or two and a halfmiles long, and so less trains.
But it's a very importantsegment of our industry, of this
community, of having a porthere, a port in Palm Beach and a
port in Miami.
(11:50):
So, everything that we get.
You know, the number one importto Port Everglades is fuel.
The number one import is also.
Second import is yachts at theend of the day.
So you know, when it comes toexports, you have clothing and
other textiles.
That's the number one import.
We're third on the export foryachts.
We'd like to get higher on thatright, because that gets back
to manufacturing and stuff.
(12:10):
But the bridge or a tunnel is acritical thing.
So a lot of people took anaspirational approach, like I
used with the cars as areference to get your kid to
school, where a bus can get yourkid to school also.
And whether it's a 56-footbridge or an 80-foot bridge,
what we came up with was a40-foot bridge as a compromise
to not dividing a city and withthat it'll clear 80% of our
(12:30):
traffic at the end of the day,keeping in mind there's still
four vehicular bridges on theriver.
That average plus minus 20 feet.
They're still going to open alot more and they open 30-plus
times a day, as it is foranything.
Just because they're 20 feet, A40-foot bridge, a lot of the
100-foot boats, a lot of my oldbrand they'll clear.
They have air drafts of 34 feet,35 feet so they'll clear, and
(12:52):
that's a good thing.
And then the tugs obviouslynavigate them both up and down
the river, depending on tides.
So there's a solution with a40-foot bridge.
Some of the pushback initiallywas they came up with the MPO
and everyone came back withlet's do a 26-foot bridge.
So all we're doing is addinganother impediment.
It doesn't clear enough traffic.
(13:12):
We already know from thevehicular traffic it goes
30-plus times a day.
So 40 feet.
We're still going to have tostop for the vehicular bridges
and for the CSX if it were inthe down position.
But the nice thing about it,it'll clear 80% of the traffic.
The problem was they said thegrade couldn't be met.
The freight will never go onthat raised bridge of 40 feet.
(13:33):
It will stay low.
With a tunnel it's the samething.
A lot of the advocates for thetunnel people were saying well,
we could put freight down below.
Never gonna happen.
One because of grade, twobecause of hazardous materials.
So we have to take that off thetable.
And we finally did.
We had the FEC on with arecently elected official and
said we'll never let freight runthrough a tunnel.
Fact right.
(13:55):
Not fiction, when sometimespeople get in front of an
audience and say we can do this,this and this with a tunnel and
believe me, we're all for thetunnel, but you've got to get
into the economics of it.
So we used references all thetime to a tunnel that happened
in Miami over a decade ago andthat was contracted over a
decade ago at a whole differentcost structure and it was built
for under 900 million I think itwas 888 million and it doesn't
(14:16):
have a train going through iteither and, equally important,
we'll never have freight goingthrough it.
So, in trying to find aworkable solution because again
we have to find solutions- forinfrastructure.
We said, hey, what about a40-foot bridge?
40-foot bridge landed beforeBroward Boulevard and it would
probably close 6th Street goingsouth, but it'll go over the
river at 40 feet and then it'llclear 80% of our traffic.
(14:40):
They said 4% grade issue Go toMiami, it goes up at a 4% grade,
so we know it can do it.
And around the world it alsogoes up at a higher grade than
4%.
So we know that they can dothat with commuter rail and
that's what they came back with.
The county did actually Goodchoice, so it solves the problem
in terms of it's still going tocross at grade at Broward, so
(15:00):
this gets into the East Westcorridor issues.
So think of it this way You'vegot Commercial Oakland Park,
sunrise, broward Boulevard andState Route 84.
They all stop, they're going tocontinue.
Whether we have a tunnel or abridge, every one of those
things other than Broward wouldstop for traffic.
So we need to start buildingthe infrastructure, either
overpasses or underpasses, atthose corridors too, because
(15:23):
whether it's a tunnel or abridge, we have to solve
everyone else.
It's just not Fort Lauderdalethat, you know, is being
impacted by commuter rail andfreight, it's everyone, and so
let's find the solutions.
It's an infrastructure problem,not a which is better that we
can afford.
What we can afford is probablyjust a bridge.
Let's make it the most iconicbridge that's ever been built.
Kristina Hebert (15:46):
I agree and you know a couple of points.
On that One, I think it was JimNoggle who, former mayor and
actually a former board memberof the marine industries, told
me how at one point and a yardowner that's correct that 17th
street bridge at one point wasthought to be a tunnel, and what
a mistake that would have been.
Had that become a tunnel,people would have missed being
(16:07):
able to go up and over, peoplewould miss being able to see the
inlet, and it's such an iconicdrive and such an iconic spot to
be able to see, like you said,our front door into the yachting
capital of the world, and wewould have missed all of that
had it been a tunnel.
Phil Purcell (16:21):
So sometimes Well, what's funny is is again a lot
of people that electeds havecome back and said well, the
marine industry endorsed the 55foot bridge on 17th street
because right now they're havingproblems with that bridge at
rush hours and stuff and, as youknow, the the bridges, unless a
boat's under tug, is going tostay closed between 7 and 9 am
and 4 and 6, which causes somebackups of different things I
(16:44):
get, but the industry reallytries to accommodate that at the
end of the day, however, the17th Street Bridge has been
opening a lot more Well, one youjust finish, or finishing Pier
66 construction, which puts howmany hundreds of workers there
on a daily basis, and that youknow went seamlessly.
The redevelopment of theconvention center at the same
(17:04):
time.
So, now that corridor on bothsides has had a tremendous
amount of construction, inaddition to the redevelopment
that's happening all up on thebeach.
And they all come across 17thStreet, right.
So what we were told was hey,the industry said it was okay at
55 feet and it wouldn't open asmuch.
That's not a true statement.
The citizens made a choice.
They could have had a tunnel ora bridge.
They voted for a bridge andthey got the benefits of the
(17:26):
view and everything else.
With that said, we'veidentified, actually, some boats
that actually are causing a lotof these openings, especially
at the later time the four tosix and they have masts, and
everyone again assumed that itwas a big yacht pulling away
from BMR or Pier 66 that wasmaking those bridges open, and
that's not the case.
It's actually boats with masksthat go out for sunset tours.
(17:47):
So my argument is why don't wesit with them first and talk to
them thoughtfully and say, hey,is there a way to work around
this?
Sure.
Because again, the locals weretrying to say, hey, we need to
curb the industry and shut itdown between 4 and 6 pm more.
And that's not acceptable,because the Coast Guard steps in
and says, no, we got to havesafe navigation.
(18:11):
You can't sit on the other side, the south side of the 17th
Street Bridge, and hold a150-foot or 200-foot boat for an
hour sitting there when you'vegot a security zone right behind
you with cruise ships, cruiseships coming and going, all the
other things that happen thatcome into that port.
Now we have a boat that comesin the port that's on liquid gas
.
So again, there's a lot ofother things to take into
consideration.
And then, as you know, tides,whether ingoing or outgoing.
(18:32):
So again, we're working withthe locals trying to come up
with a solution for that bridge.
But it is not what peopleperceive in the industry.
It's a lot of boats with maststhat are opening it.
So my argument is let's go sitwith them first.
Kristina Hebert (18:47):
And so is it sitting with specific
neighborhoods, sitting withspecific, like you were saying,
businesses, those that are kindof going out.
I think it's a little bit ofboth.
But, it's an important elementof the industry.
You mentioned safety.
People don't seem to realizewhen we talk about the new river
is you just mentioned a largeboat having to be able to, you
(19:08):
know, stay off the bridge andcounteract the tides that's
coming in and out of the port.
Imagine over here around thebend, when you're trying to head
downriver, let's say, out ofone of the yards, even if you're
under tow, if those bridgeswere not able to go up, or the
cycle time is so long as it iswith the railroad bridge, those
are huge safety hazards.
(19:29):
Talk about that.
I mean the Coast Guard's got tobe supportive of modifying this
bridge for that reason too.
Phil Purcell (19:35):
So the Coast Guard won't weigh on the bridge.
Kristina Hebert (19:37):
They won't weigh in on that.
Phil Purcell (19:38):
They will weigh in on the navigation and the time
allotted to us.
Kristina Hebert (19:41):
And that's fine , that's fine, that's fair.
And so we understand that.
So it's a way and it's not aposition on the train, whether
it's a tunnel or a bridge orwhat height bridge or anything
else we're going to get our fairshare of time to be able to
operate our businesses.
Phil Purcell (19:55):
That's the key Predictable openings,
predictable times.
Look, we all work on schedules.
At the end of the day, youremployees have to be there by
7.30.
They leave at 4.30,.
Whatever it may be, if you'recatching a flight, you know
you've got to be there.
Although flights do run alittle late, you're supposed to
be there at 4.15 if it's takenoff, and sometimes it doesn't.
So it's the same.
Here we need a predictableopening on top of every hour and
stuff that way the tugs, peopledeparting any of the yards.
(20:17):
You've got, as you know,different tide heights, things
like that.
Current's going in, going out.
So we just need thatpredictable opening that says,
okay, at 8 am, at 10 am, at 9 am.
All these things are going tohappen every day at this time
and if it doesn't happen at thattime, there's got to be a
consequence.
You know we pay anytime there'sa bridge failure.
Our industry pays.
It's funny how it never breaksin the open position.
(20:38):
It usually breaks in the downposition.
Gotcha and so and again, noconspiracy theory.
I get it, but we need to findsolutions.
That's why, again, tunnel orbridge With a tunnel, I'm all
for it.
It's just the economics aren'tgoing to pencil out.
So a bridge, let's get a newrailroad bridge.
Let's make it iconic looking.
It's still going to be low andthat's going to handle the
(20:59):
freight.
Kristina Hebert (21:06):
And let's get a new 40-foot vehicular bridge or
other bridge that canaccommodate 80% of our traffic.
And what do we think abouttiming on any of this?
I mean, it's been 10 years.
Are we thinking another 10years?
You see my hair.
Phil Purcell (21:13):
There'll probably be none left by the time it
starts, but that said yeah, it'sa minimum of 10 years, but we
have to get going now.
I mean, let's do it in today'sdollars too.
Let's get things bid outbecause it is a process.
So right now the county is aperfect example, broward County.
They've been trying to make anagreement with the city and,
knowing that the othercommunities in Broward County
(21:33):
want this to happen, as doesPalm Beach, as does Miami, they
went ahead last week and movedthe North Corridor forward.
That means to PD&E studies.
So planning design andengineering.
So they'll go ahead and startdoing their e-studies.
So planning design andengineering, okay, so they'll go
ahead and start doing their.
And they dedicated, I think,$20 million to do this, to go do
their studies that they need toplan design and then engineer
and then environmental impactsand all those things I get.
(21:55):
There's going to be someimpacts.
There's bigger impacts by doingnothing.
Correct but it should gosimultaneously with the
mitigation of Broward BoulevardEast-West, with, you know,
Sunrise East-West commercial.
Kristina Hebert (22:06):
What do you mean?
Phil Purcell (22:06):
by that.
So think about it when a traingoes by, we'll have a bridge.
So our river, let's say it's abridge 40-foot bridge, We'll
have a predictable thing we havethe Coast Guard, has our back
and stuff right, so we know whenthe openings will be.
It'll actually create a lotmore.
You'll still have to stop forthe other bridges, but it'll
create a lot more benefits toget to those other bridges
(22:28):
quicker.
That said, when the traffichappens, I mean again, look at
how much Lauderdale has grown.
Look at the construction.
There's 7,000 new residentsjust being built in the corridor
right around where our officeis right around this area along
the FEC, so we have to havesomething for the traffic to
move to.
Not everyone's going to get on abike.
Not everyone's going to walkright, and so they need to build
(22:48):
the infrastructure there,whether it's an underpass or
it's an overpass.
Go to PGA Boulevard.
I don't know if you've been upthere lately.
They've got a mall, they've gotCarmine's Restaurant, which is
wonderful, and you've got somegolfers that live out there on
Jupiter Island and what have you.
But that's about it.
But they have a flyover on PGABoulevard already They've had it
(23:08):
for over a decade where youdon't have to stop for the FEC
tracks.
So why would us, as a majormetropolitan area in Palm Beach
and other places, not have thesame thing?
It makes no sense.
So that's where we need to pushon the electeds.
Let's get the infrastructure.
Let's quit arguing aboutwhether it's a tunnel bridge.
(23:31):
Let's make it the best productit's going to be.
If it is a bridge, let's makeit iconic, because you go in
Miami and you look at howtri-rail goes over the river
there.
That's iconic at the end of theday.
And there's other places in theworld where bridges can be
iconic also.
But let's move past thearguments that we have or the
reasons.
If it's not economically viable, then we need to move it
forward, and if that means abridge, 40-foot bridge can work
for our industry, work for thecommunity, but we also have to
(23:51):
solve the problems.
All your people, they live inthis community.
When they go on calls.
You know everyone else, all thepeople that work in lawyers'
offices and doctors' offices.
Let's get them theinfrastructure that they need on
Broward Boulevard, onCommercial Boulevard, on Sunrise
Boulevard, and that means aflyover and underpass.
That way they don't stop for it.
Kristina Hebert (24:09):
How do people stay involved on this?
I'm pretty sure there's not awebsite centrally located to
find out this information.
Clearly, become a member ofMISF.
I think that that's important,even if you're not in the marine
industry.
It's $500.
It's $500.
But at the end of the day, it'salso the reality is probably
one of your clients has abusiness in the marine industry.
(24:30):
Regardless of what you do, Ithink what are we?
The two degrees away from PhilPurcell?
Not Kevin Bacon?
Yeah exactly and I think that.
So finding out that informationbecoming a part of the trade
association, is there anythingon FDOT or City of Fort
Lauderdale?
Or reach out to yourlegislators and say, hey, I want
a bridge and I need a solution,because the one thing I've
heard is the worst thing thatcan happen.
(24:51):
The absolute worst solution iswe do nothing 100%.
Phil Purcell (24:55):
Yeah, doing nothing is not an option, and so
we employ three full-timelobbyists so one on the local
level, one on the state level,one on the federal level and
they're actively involved whenwe need them in different issues
here to communicate to theelecteds and other people how
important a solution is.
You know, again, it reallydidn't make a difference to us
whether it was a tunnel or abridge.
We need a solution, and we needone that we can afford to pay
(25:17):
for.
That said, it seems to beleaning towards, you know,
perhaps a bridge.
Let's make it the most iconicbridge in terms of what people
can do.
As you just said, if you're acar dealer, if you're a lawyer,
if you're a dentist, the busiestpublic's in the systems on 17th
Street.
This also is a comment aboutour industry too.
The busiest total wine is on17th Street also, but that's a
(25:40):
good thing, right?
And so we know that when theboat show's in town, it's really
important for the boat showthat we get a solution on the
river also.
So here's an economic driverthat delivers a billion-aid
economic benefit to the state,does over $800 million in direct
sales over five days andsupports this $18.5 billion
industry that we all work in, ofwhich 9.8 of that $18.5 billion
(26:01):
between Palm Beach and Miami,9.8 of it's in Broward County.
So the bulk of it's in BrowardCounty, so the bulk of it's in
Broward County.
Kristina Hebert (26:06):
And how many jobs.
Phil Purcell (26:07):
Over 100,000 jobs, 142 regionally, about 120 just
in Broward.
Kristina Hebert (26:11):
Just in Broward County alone, just in Broward
yeah.
Phil Purcell (26:13):
I mean, look at your employee ranks and stuff.
Look how you guys have grownand you think of the changes up
the river with different people,people that we've known for
years, that have either leftthis world or sold.
And now new companies and newvisions have come in and they're
putting the CapEx required thatwe need and they're assembling
for the future at the end of theday.
Now you know, marina Companywas just acquired by a private
(26:36):
equity group again paid recordprice right $5.4 billion.
Two of the acquisitions wereabout $700 million two years ago
, meaning LMC and.
Rybovich, they were about $700million of cost.
I assume that they traded at ahigher dollar amount than $5.4
billion at the end of the day,so it shows you how important
(26:58):
our industry is.
Kristina Hebert (26:59):
Absolutely.
Phil Purcell (27:00):
But yeah, if they get involved in the association,
that would be great.
It's a member-drivenassociation.
You've been around it, Christy,forever.
It's a great association.
It's well-funded.
It's always had the community'sbenefit also at heart too, not
just the industry, Obviously,the industry is the driver, but
the community is important too.
(27:21):
You want where your people aregoing to work to be viable.
So we got behind the parks bond.
We got behind the police bond.
You know new police station.
The police station used to be,you know, driven with mold and
stuff, so the police actuallyduring hurricanes would evacuate
when the police were leavingtheir own police station.
So then they got a brand newstation the parks.
Everyone wants to see greeneryin parks and things like that.
(27:41):
So even where our offices are,we can walk over to Broward
County, we can walk over towherever the new city hall is,
where they're planning it in theold city hall place for
Lauderdale, and it's reallyimportant that our industry is
respected in a thoughtful way,because I think our industry is
so viable to this community andSouth Florida as a whole.
When you look at theentrepreneurs that are bringing
(28:02):
their boats here and stuff andyou think of the Huzinga family
and you think of the Moranfamily, southeast Toyota.
They were big boaters who builtmore fed ships than Jim Moran
Nobody.
When you look at the Huzingafamily, again, the community has
been great benefactors of that.
Who built more fed ships thanJim Moran?
Nobody.
When you look at the Zingafamily, again, great, the
community has been greatbenefactors of that, whether it
was through the Dolphins,through the Marlins, through the
Panthers, and so they broughtsports here, they brought
(28:25):
businesses here, autonation, allthese different things, but
they love boats.
So now you look at all theother entrepreneurs that have
moved here, that have have boatshere, that are keeping them
here.
So you know Zuckerberg, youknow his boats pass through
Launchpad.
Bezos' boat passes through here.
David McNeil from WeatherTechyou know he has a residence here
, keeps his boat here.
Those are the people we canengage from the soft side of
(28:47):
life too, to get involved in acommunity from a philanthropic
side, because there's a lot ofneeds here that philanthropy
helped with and our industry is,is is shouldered up with all
those people because we servicetheir boats well, I think one
thing that's always been umimportant to you and a priority
is also that the marine industrybe a part of the community and
be a part of the solutions inthat community.
Kristina Hebert (29:08):
So you brought up habitat for humanity, that
we've been involved in some ofthose builds, even the
neighborhood corporate buildyeah, the Broward Alliance.
Making sure that I can remembera time and I'm looking over at
patients here, that's okay, I'mjust going to reference you on
the camera.
I can remember-.
Phil Purcell (29:24):
We've got thousands of people out here in
the audience there's thousands.
Kristina Hebert (29:26):
Yeah, I had him turn down the applause thing.
Yeah, I appreciate that you.
It can be distracting that.
I can remember on the front ofthe Broward Alliance annual
report.
It was aviation, it was tourismand Marine was missing.
That never happens againanymore because I believe that
people have really startedpaying attention to that.
Some of the things that you'vedone on the, on the, the top
(29:50):
listings in the Marine BusinessJournal.
Phil Purcell (29:55):
Yeah, South Florida.
Kristina Hebert (29:56):
South Florida Business Journal and making sure
that the companies and showingagain trying to portray the
marine industry so much more asan industry versus a lifestyle
and we talk about that a lotbecause so many people get
caught up in the lifestyle thatour industry portrays.
But we are an industry, we havebusinesses and for me, without
an association that's protectingand helping me understand that
(30:19):
there will be a push for abridge, how could I be in
business for 75 years and I'mnot the only company.
My neighbors, frank and Jimmy'sand Jimmy's been on this have
been in business 76 years andyou look at, a lot of the
businesses that make up thisyachting capital of the world
are family businesses and wecouldn't do that without the
support and all of ourlegislators understanding our
(30:41):
industry.
Phil Purcell (30:41):
So A hundred percent, and so the team at the
Marine Industry Association is awonderful team.
Faces change over the years,but again, as long as the
mission stays the same, that'sthe most important thing, and I
really believe that we arereally good stewards and leaders
in this community and that'simportant to be respected.
It's one thing to be liked.
You know, leadership's not apopularity contest.
(31:02):
At the end of the day, that'strue.
You know I like being liked.
But more importantly, let's beeffective and sometimes just
like Tunnel Bridge.
I'm sure there's some peoplethat are ruffled if it goes one
way or the other, but we need asolution and that's what we're
advocating.
Kristina Hebert (31:14):
Is there any kind of write-in?
Sorry to go back to it, but Ido want to close on this topic.
Is there any kind of write-in?
Are there comment periods Arethere?
I kind of remember they weredoing hearings.
We keep referring to a they,but I'm not sure who it was.
I think it's FDOT or the MPOthey, but is that something that
people should be encouraged?
I know I had FDOT come out tomy company in the neighborhood
(31:36):
because they were talking aboutwhat the infrastructure will do
and there's also a walking paththat's going to run along this
corridor.
And, to be honest, you know I'drather know what's going on.
But I mean, it was all verywell explained whether it was a
20-foot or a 40-foot.
It was actually more intrusiveif it was going to be the tunnel
.
But 40 foot it was actuallymore intrusive if it was going
(31:56):
to be the tunnel.
But I'm still okay with that ifthat's what the money was there
for and it's going to be forthe long term of our industry.
But there will be town hallmeetings, there will be comments
that people need to make andthere'll be a call to action, or
is it?
Phil Purcell (32:06):
Yeah, there'll be all those things.
So, as they go through the PD&E, all those things will happen
again, and so we need to bethere and have a positive voice.
It doesn't have to be athousand people, it just needs
to be thoughtful, it needs to beon point, you know, at the end
of the day, on point about thejobs that it creates, on point
of protecting the jobs, on pointthe importance of our industry
and that we live in the sixthlargest metropolitan area.
(32:28):
And the only thing we'remissing.
we wouldn't even be having thisconversation if it wasn't for
infrastructure Right.
Kristina Hebert (32:34):
Well, thank you for all that you do and thank
you on behalf of the MarineIndustries Association and we
appreciate you being ourstrongest advocate out there.
Phil Purcell (32:41):
Appreciate it, Kristen.
Thanks for everything.
Absolutely.
Kristina Hebert (32:44):
Thank you for joining us this season on season
three of the Wardsway Podcast.
Be sure you subscribe becausethere's much more to come.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.