May 30, 2025 • 37 mins
The podcast dives deep into visa regulations affecting the international yachting community, addressing common misconceptions about B1/B2 visas, crew rotations, and employment transitions. Patience Cohn, the Marine Industries Association of South Florida's industry liaison for 19 years, shares insider knowledge on navigating immigration requirements while keeping vessels fully operational. She explains why day work remains strictly prohibited for foreign nationals (regardless of vessel flag), and how crew can legally search for new positions while in the U.S.
For yacht owners and operators, the episode clarifies cruising license requirements and alternatives like "permission to proceed" for foreign vessels moving between American ports. Most importantly, it emphasizes the collaborative relationship between CBP and the marine industry – one focused on facilitating legitimate business while maintaining clear boundaries.
Whether you're a captain, crew member, vessel owner, or marine industry professional, this episode provides essential information to navigate U.S. immigration requirements confidently. Listen now to avoid costly misunderstandings and ensure your yacht operation remains compliant with current regulations.
For additional information and resources, please follow the links provided below.
Marine Industries Association of South Florida: MIASF.org
Customs and Border Protection: CBP.gov
Wards Marine Electric
https://www.wardsmarine.com/
Wards Way YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/@WardsWay75
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kristina Hebert (00:00):
Welcome to the Season 3 Wards Way podcast,
where we're covering the hotlegislative topics of 2025.
From tariffs to tunnels andbridges, from foreign trade
zones to workers' compensation,to the Fort Lauderdale
International Boat Show, to theMarine Research Hub, industry
(00:22):
experts and clarification on theB1, b2 visas.
Join us as we celebrate 75years in business and we're just
getting started.
So I think we should talk about.
So let's talk about where weended up with CBP, let's what
happened in Palm Beach and andthen what caused the um, the
meeting that was had recently,earlier this month.
Patience Cohn (00:45):
So every year at FLIBS we host a captain and crew
FLIBS Fort Lauderdale.
Kristina Hebert (00:50):
International Boat Show.
Thank you, okay.
I assume the world does I know.
Well, the world does know us.
Patience Cohn (00:58):
We host a captain and crew panel where we invite
higher ranking and local agentsfrom Customs and Border
Prevention and US Coast Guardand anybody else that has some
relevant information.
A couple of times when the taxcap was new, or the refit and
repair tax cap was instituted,we'd have like a CPA that helped
(01:22):
us institute it, come and talkabout what the regulations were.
So it's just an information,open conversation, not the us
and them kind of guys, so we canget to know each other.
Kristina Hebert (01:35):
And I've been to those.
They're very successful.
I mean, it seems like a lot ofdialogue going back and forth.
I feel like the officers arethere, very patient, answer the
questions that I think they'veanswered multiple times, but
they'll answer them again, yeah.
Patience Cohn (01:51):
And, yes, it works really well, and a couple
of the agents that usuallyattend that thought that it
would be a good idea to do itduring the Palm Beach Boat Show
Makes sense, and they gave thema venue to do it and I helped
them with giving out theinvitations to get people to
come, the agencies to come.
They sent a supervisor and twoexperienced agents from CBP Palm
(02:19):
Beach.
Okay, okay, I think that theywere a little overwhelmed with
the questions because it hadbeen announced that we were
being strong on immigration andso there's that higher sense of
(02:39):
concern about being legally inthe country, right, and so it's
a sensitive topic, at least asfar as crew is concerned.
It's a sensitive topic becausea lot of our boats are foreign
flag and a lot of our crew are.
Because the boat's foreign flag, they're foreign as well, and
so it was timely and thequestions started simply enough,
(03:02):
sure.
And then they he didn'tmisspeak, but I think he
misunderstood what he wasanswering about whether foreign
crew can be on a foreign boatwhen it's in the dry dock,
because in his mind it was work,that you can't take jobs away
(03:25):
from Americans on American soil.
Kristina Hebert (03:27):
Well, and I feel like Dry Dock they're
thinking, cbp is thinking verylong-term commercial ship eight,
ten months in a yard.
Patience Cohn (03:35):
Definitely had the commercial ship.
Okay, and in furtherquestioning, like you know, can
the crew like vacuum the rugsand you know, polish the silver
and do what they normally do.
He was like all right, I needto look more into this.
I'll get you.
I'll go back and look up theanswer and get back to you.
That part did not make theinternet Right.
(03:59):
The internet heard and instead,the panic set in the internet
heard.
Crew cannot work on foreign.
Crew cannot work on boats whenthey're in the shipyard when
it's out of the water.
In the shipyard.
Kristina Hebert (04:12):
Which is absolutely false.
That's correct, and so I doknow that it sent a lot of
people and so you were helpfulin coordinating a meeting we had
in Port Everglades at the CBPoffice, right.
Patience Cohn (04:26):
With, well, the head of small passenger vessel
and small vessel and passengerentry from DC who's the big boss
?
Yep Zoomed in yes, he did.
And then the deputy directorfrom the district Tampa, miami
district was in attendance, andthen officers from different
(04:48):
disciplines because CBP has acouple of immigration cargo
entry.
They had multiple areas and Ihave to say they knew what the
topic was for this meeting.
Kristina Hebert (05:01):
This was not like, oh, the industry wants to
come.
Was for this meeting.
This was not like oh, theindustry wants to come.
And I have to say I found it tobe very pleasant, considering
the CBP knew they were kind of alittle in the hot seat with the
industry if there's such I mean, we have such a good
relationship and goodcommunication but they kind of
knew like we're going to need todo some cleanup here.
The industry is not happy withwhat this and how this
(05:24):
presentation went and how thismisinformation is going.
But I have to say you didn'tget that sense at all from the
meeting.
It was very much kumbaya.
There had to be 25 people inthat meeting from every acronym
of association and all the keypeople that I think you felt
were important.
Our federal lobbyist was there,several facilities were
(05:46):
represented there, crew agenciesrepresented.
Patience Cohn (05:51):
Triton and Doc Work were invited, as well as
media was there.
The media that, actually themedia that filmed the original.
Everybody was in the room, thatmaybe there were a few people
that got missed, but there wasenough people to know that too,
so everybody was really comingtogether to say how do we get
this corrected?
Kristina Hebert (06:11):
here, how did we get here?
And and let's get thiscorrected, and I also try to
remind people remember, cpp wasonly instituted in what?
2003?
It's only been a little over 20years.
Remember, all of this came about, and I will say, oh, I could
toss a lifeline to Jordan, myproducer when was CBP founded?
(06:33):
I feel like it was 2003.
Jordan Boffner, by the way, andI mean, remember all of this
came about after 9-11.
Department of Homeland Securitywas created.
So, anyway, I guess my point isthat this is not something that
we've had.
My company is 75 years and theassociation oh, I was right
(06:55):
March 1st 2003.
And so, in 22 years, not onlyhave we gone through and worked
with CBP, but CBP didn't exist,but CBP is now really, I feel,
due to a lot of work that you'vedone in, specifically, the
marine industries, understandingour industry, understanding
that we are trying to complywith their regulations, that we
(07:16):
are not the industry that wewant them to worry about, that
we want to get the correctinformation out, and I think
that you've been able to provethat.
Patience Cohn (07:31):
Yes, they're very willing to work with us, and it
is a case of not understanding,even when crew fly in with
papers that say they're going toa yacht and the proper, because
originally we had to have aletter, if you remember.
Kristina Hebert (07:41):
I do.
I remember that we had to havea letter.
Patience Cohn (07:42):
If you remember, I do I remember that we crafted
a letter that said yacht crewthe appropriate visa is a B1 to
work on a.
They'd be entering the countryto work on a yacht because it's
not commercial, because theywere getting a commercial C1D
which only allows you 29 days inthe country and there's no
extension.
You're out.
But that's for commercialvessels that aren't supposed to
(08:06):
be cruising the United States.
They come, they drop whatevercargo and they leave.
That's what that commercialcrew does.
Kristina Hebert (08:16):
And they know CBP understands that that's not
what our crew does, and so evenin this meeting there was some
going back and forth.
So how did we conclude?
I do know that we had asked forCBP to issue a statement
clarifying what this statementmeant or how it's actually being
(08:36):
enforced.
Talk to me about that, and Iknow you got that about a week
ago.
Patience Cohn (08:40):
Well, we got it from local.
We have not gotten the—.
Kristina Hebert (08:44):
Okay, what does that mean?
Patience Cohn (08:46):
The Tampa Miami field office answered—sent us an
email that described basicallythat you could work in the
boatyard.
You can't do the bottom work.
The work that the shipyardtraditionally does is still the
shipyard's job.
You can't do that If it's a jobyou would normally do on your
(09:08):
boat.
Kristina Hebert (09:09):
So the example I heard was that the chef can
cook for the crew, can feed thecrew absolutely and absolutely.
That's what they normally do.
Nobody would be hiring anoutside contractor to come in
during that yard period forcooking.
So there's no, nobody'sstealing a US job and that is
the job that the crew was thatship usually.
(09:31):
So that was key.
The other one that I heard, thepoint of clarification was the
crew needed to either arrivefrom foreign with the boat or
leave foreign had to be part.
Patience Cohn (09:44):
one leg of the voyage had to be by vessel.
Kristina Hebert (09:48):
And it was even further clarified because we
were all sticking our hands waydown in that what-if bag and I
believe it was a lawyer at thetable who asked the question who
said, okay, so the crew arrivedforeign, but they're leaving to
go to New England before theydepart foreign.
And my understanding was, if itarrived foreign, you know, so
(10:11):
the crew member arrived with theboat foreign, the boat is not
immediately leaving, but it'swithin that six months, it's
within that 180 days.
The crew can continue north orcontinue inside the continental
United States, as long as theydepart within that six months.
What they cannot do is fly inYep work and fly out so don't
(10:33):
arrive with the boat and don'tdepart with the boat and then
spend time in the yard periodworking that?
Patience Cohn (10:39):
that is where it would appear that that's a us
job, because they can consider,because that's committed,
considered domestic serviceright, but that's not the case.
Kristina Hebert (10:50):
That's not how our crew operate.
We know that they.
We do know that one of theissues was that for the I
apologize for the inaccuratevernacular that I may say but
the rotation, the crew rotation,that sometimes people were
saying well, they fly in andmaybe they rotate out before.
(11:11):
Well, then you're going to haveto modify the rotation, so a
crew member cannot fly in andnot depart with the boat.
But I find that unless it'sunder a very significantly long
refit period and if that's thecase that's going to be planned
out and then the rotations wouldbe coordinated from there but
that there really was no issue.
There wasn't a newinterpretation, there wasn't an
(11:34):
old interpretation gone bad, itwas just really a
misunderstanding of kind of apoint of clarification okay, it
both.
Patience Cohn (11:45):
They can.
Kristina Hebert (11:45):
Nothing's really changed they can come and
change go into the yard.
Patience Cohn (11:49):
If it's an extended period and the captain
wants key personnel to staylonger than six months, they can
either file for an extension,which you can even do it before
your visa expires.
Do it before it expires anduntil you hear their
determination, you're stilllegal.
You won't get in trouble if youfile for the extension, as long
(12:11):
as you don't wait 10 minutesbefore the thing expires to
apply for it so that they couldsay they had an engineer working
on a project and they wantedthem to be supervising the
project through the whole thing.
Kristina Hebert (12:23):
If they legitimately write what they
want and ask for the extension,they're probably going to get it
and the crew member has a proofof residency in another country
and the crew member is alsoreceiving foreign pay, right, so
it's really just kind of followthe rules none of it has
changed and I think it's key tohave a good.
(12:44):
What happens if you run intothat to that cbp agent?
Patience Cohn (12:48):
that is new, that maybe wasn't sure, that and and
that happens a lot a lot when,when an agent transfers into
this community, because most ofour agents know the yachting
community, because they grew upwith us figuring out the rules.
Kristina Hebert (13:05):
Absolutely over the last 20 years.
Patience Cohn (13:06):
Right.
We have a lot of agents thatare.
We have a lot of experience inthem so it's not very painful
around here.
But should they get a new agentor somebody gets transferred
out so they're filling a spot?
It usually takes us a littlewhile to get they read the rule
book.
They understand what the rulesays when you how to apply it,
(13:30):
how it gets applied and how it'sinterpreted is up to the agent
honestly, and it's up to theagent You've got to answer
honestly when they ask youquestions.
When you're clearing in,younger crew get nervous.
They think they're giving theright answer instead of giving
the truthful answer.
Kristina Hebert (13:52):
Well, I agree, and I heard the propaganda that
was also happening at thatmeeting that somebody misused a
word deported and I liked that.
Cbp and yourself, I agree,sitting at the head of the table
, I believe corrected thatimmediately and said our job is
not to deport anyone.
We are not actively out lookingfor crew that may or may not be
(14:15):
staying past their particularvisa time, or it's more of an
after the fact, Walk me throughthat.
So CBP is not walking aroundyards looking for crews and
asking them for their visabooklet or a date.
Patience Cohn (14:30):
To my knowledge, that's not happening and they
admitted that they were notdoing that.
That's not happening and theyadmitted that they were not
doing that.
Where we're ringing the bell iscrew that perhaps came to the
US and didn't have a job, okay,and maybe did a little bit of
day work illegally.
Kristina Hebert (14:51):
Okay.
Patience Cohn (14:53):
And then got a job they knew they would.
They eventually got a job andnow they're working on a boat
and the boat goes to the Bahamasfor a week and they come back
in and the agent looks at thebook and says but you were here
for five months.
How did you support yourself,gotcha?
And if you were doing day workdoesn't matter whether you were
(15:15):
on a foreign flag boat or a USboat.
Kristina Hebert (15:19):
Day work is illegal Day work should be
illegal for so many reasons.
Don't get me started on myworkers' comp, but soapbox, I
could get on that one too Daywork should just be banished
from everywhere.
Patience Cohn (15:31):
But day work is legitimately illegal.
It's always been illegal.
You cannot work do day work inthe United States on a B-1 visa,
and if they find that that'show you were supporting yourself
or you've perhaps stayed longerthan 50% of a year in the
(15:54):
United States, is another reasonwhy they might question that
you aren't, perhaps stayedlonger than 50% of a year in the
United States is another reasonwhy they might question that
you aren't.
In fact, it's an intent toimmigrate.
You're not allowed to do thateither and if you're breaking
those rules, they will generallysay you really should leave
today, or we're going to makeyou leave, correct, and you're
(16:16):
given the option in most casesbecause they're not being bad
guys, they just you broke therules, you got to go Right, and
if you take yourself out, you'llhave the opportunity to come
back.
Kristina Hebert (16:26):
I was going to ask that.
Patience Cohn (16:27):
And if they give you your ride home, it may be 10
or more years before your visawill be issued again.
Kristina Hebert (16:39):
So really, who's advising crew to do any of
this day work?
Or is it just the crew isexcited to get a job and come to
the US in an opportunistic way?
Patience Cohn (16:53):
I do think it's difficult to get most of them
come to the US, because that'swhere the boats are.
Kristina Hebert (16:58):
Or what if they lost their job here?
Talk to me about that one too.
Patience Cohn (17:01):
I didn't mean to interrupt you on that.
You can actually look for a job.
Kristina Hebert (17:05):
I was going to say isn't there something?
Patience Cohn (17:06):
But you can't take a job.
Kristina Hebert (17:09):
So walk me through that, Okay.
So I arrived on a foreign flagboat.
I've been here about threemonths.
Boat sold All new crew.
I'm let go.
What do I?
Patience Cohn (17:20):
do Well.
In March of 23, they passed arule that if you have a B-1, b-2
visa, you're allowed to lookfor work in the United States.
So I could stay and continue tolook for my, but you have to
support yourself and you can'twork while you're looking for
work.
You can't do day work oranything.
I can't, I can't, okay.
But you can look for work.
You can fill out applications.
(17:42):
You can go on interviews.
You can't, so you can look forwork.
Kristina Hebert (17:49):
But you need to go home before you take the job
.
Patience Cohn (17:51):
Your contract should be signed.
Kristina Hebert (17:53):
In your homeland.
Okay, the job, your contract,should be signed in your
homeland, not homeland just outof the country.
Patience Cohn (18:05):
Okay, that's good to know, but that's always been
the case.
It is Now.
They did say if you were on aboat and you wanted to change to
another boat, you could do thatOkay.
Kristina Hebert (18:09):
So a lot of it.
What I'm hearing is it soundslike there's a lot of common
sense.
It's a lot of communication.
If your intention is to followthe law and your intention is to
obey the rules, that likelyyou're really not going to run
into any kind of trouble.
And if you do, there's probablya mechanism there for you File
(18:31):
an extension, find the paperwork, whatever it is that you need
to do.
But if you're trying to avertthe law, then that's where you
run into the problem, but that'sreally not the case in our
industry.
We don't really have a lot ofbad apples as much as we have
misinformation.
Patience Cohn (18:49):
Misinformation and a lot of.
I stayed in the Holiday InnExpress last night, so I'm an
expert.
The crew tells the other crewwhat they should do, and maybe
that's not always the rightanswer.
I think it was La Quinta.
Is it Holiday Inn?
Kristina Hebert (19:04):
Maybe that was the high chair.
You remember how you felt likea champion at the high chair.
But it's good to know that CBPstill has a very good open line
of communication with theindustry.
Patience Cohn (19:17):
Their number one job is actually to encourage
economic economy and business.
It's a financial mandate, notnecessarily a policing mandate.
Kristina Hebert (19:34):
That's interesting.
Patience Cohn (19:35):
Very much interesting but also policing
the laws.
But they're supposed toencourage economic commerce.
Kristina Hebert (19:44):
So talk to me also about cruising license.
Now, that is also with CBP.
Patience Cohn (19:49):
That is also with CBP.
Kristina Hebert (19:51):
So we've gotten past so at this point, because
I feel like cruising licenseswere an issue too and that they
were being again.
It was misinformation andmisunderstanding.
How does a cruising licensework.
Patience Cohn (20:05):
Cruising license.
The rules of the cruisinglicense says that if the vessel
is to be used for personal use,the owner's use that.
The vessel may get a cruisinglicense Okay.
It should not enter commerce inany way.
Be for sale Okay.
And unfortunately, cbbconsiders charter commerce and a
(20:32):
lot of websites put boats thataren't even for charter in their
pictures.
Kristina Hebert (20:41):
I've seen that.
Patience Cohn (20:42):
And it says this vessel is not for charter, but
maybe one like.
It is Right and unfortunately,when they Google the name of the
boat and the first thing comesup is a full-page ad with small
print down that denies that it'snot for charter and it's listed
on charter, this boat.
It becomes a challenge toconvince them not.
(21:04):
And in some cases the principaland the boats are registered
not necessarily in Bob Jones whoowns the boat, but Correct,
it's in an LLC Jones LLC.
Right, because men with money,men and women with money, don't
put all their assets in theirpersonal names.
They have corporations.
(21:25):
So it took a little while toget them to understand that
you're looking for the MarchHare.
He's not there, right?
Because that's how this worldworks.
So now they have to have theprincipal of the corporation can
(21:47):
sign an affidavit that theseare the dates he plans to use
the boat, where he plans to go,and they'll give them a cruising
license.
It's just gotten a little morestructured.
Kristina Hebert (21:56):
Okay, but a boat can come in, ask for the
cruising license and it's okayfor the crew to be able to say
we're going to be here for aboutthree weeks ahead of time
because we have to get the boatready.
Absolutely, and I feel likethat at one point.
Patience Cohn (22:12):
Once they have a cruising license they're usually
18 months they pick up and goas they please.
Now, if a vessel is for sale,it doesn't restrict you.
You are allowed to still visitthe country.
You can't show the boat to a USowner, but you can still come
in and what you do is you haveto, and it becomes a little
burdensome because you have tocheck in at every customs
(22:33):
district, but you can go fromport to port.
You get a permission to proceed.
Yes, that's exactly it.
So there are boats that are forsale or do charter outside the
United States.
Kristina Hebert (22:47):
Correct.
Patience Cohn (22:49):
That choose not to get a cruising license but
just work on permission toproceed to go from port to port.
Kristina Hebert (22:56):
And how much time do you have to lead for
that permission to proceed?
Patience Cohn (23:00):
It's 24 hours 24 hours okay.
Kristina Hebert (23:03):
So I guess the bottom line is and we did ask
CBP to attend and be on thisSeason 3, and I understand if
they can or they can't, but thebottom line is CBP's works very
well with the industry, is afriend to the industry, holds us
accountable, you know we haveto abide by the laws rules are
the rules, but at the end of theday, their willingness to work
(23:26):
with us has just made all theall the difference in the world.
Patience Cohn (23:30):
Well, I mean when , at first, when they the
mandate was that the governmentwas going to maintain a strict
immigration policy and the worldwas like up in arms and
panicked and I understand ifsomebody has their life, even if
they're behaving Absolutely,they've obeyed the law and all
of a sudden they're hearing thatthey're going to be throwing
(23:51):
everyone out.
It's unsettling.
If you haven't broken the law,you're good.
Don't worry about it, becausethey don't want the good guys.
It's the ones that are notobeying the rules.
Sure, sure and I don't know.
I guess there was a lot ofupheaval about that for a while
(24:13):
that everyone was, but there'snothing up evil about that for a
while.
That that everyone was, butthere's nothing.
And they're.
And then the doc talk, gets theinternet, gets a story about
them hauling them off, andthey're not true.
When you get down to it, that'snot at all what happened it has
nothing to do with immigration.
Kristina Hebert (24:29):
Like I said, the um, you know, cbp is not ice
.
They're not intending to workwith ICE.
That is not their, that's nottheir job.
And so patience.
One thing I did want to saypatience, cohen, you are the
industry liaison with the MarineIndustries Association.
How long have you been doingthat?
Well, 19 years, 19 years, I knowthat you and I have served on
the board together and butyou've been single-handedly, I
(24:52):
would say one of the biggestadvocates and champions for us
as an industry, constantly stillgoing to Washington.
These relationships there's areason, I know you get beat up.
You're either what is it?
You're the town hero or thevillage idiot.
One way or the other, you getbeat up over CBP.
It's either all your fault oryou are the hero, cbp.
(25:14):
It's either all your fault oryou are the hero.
But I do think that I wouldcredit you for sure with having
that relationship and keepingthat going and spending the time
with the officers, especiallyafter maybe they have
encountered a vessel.
Does CBP reach out to you attimes and as an authority to go,
what do you want us to do withthis boat?
Patience Cohn (25:32):
CBP not so much.
They pretty much have theirthere's.
It's interesting, once in awhile coast I'll get a call from
coast guard and they'll say doyou know where such and such a
vessel is?
They're here, but they haven'tcleared in yet.
And what usually has happenedis an american captain has moved
up in size.
(25:53):
Okay, and perhaps it's he'sused to coming freely back and
forth with moving freelythroughout the country with an
American flag and an AmericanCorrect.
And perhaps there's a littleeducation that needs to happen.
Kristina Hebert (26:06):
Yeah, that's true.
Patience Cohn (26:09):
We're very fortunate in leaving CBP, but
the US Coast Guard, particularlyat Miami, which is where the
captain—.
Kristina Hebert (26:21):
And there was just a changing of the guards
for that, yes, last week.
Patience Cohn (26:24):
Okay, and we have a new captain of the port and
he's a great guy and we're verylucky because he just did a
tenure as the deputy captain ofthe port.
Kristina Hebert (26:32):
Oh, excellent, so you already have that
relationship, so that'simportant.
Patience Cohn (26:35):
So he's just moved up Great and his son just
got accepted to West Point, sohe's happy and the world is a
good place.
Kristina Hebert (26:42):
Okay, good, good to know.
Patience Cohn (26:44):
And our captain of the port, captain Cederholm,
is going to be the executiveofficer for the vice commandant.
Oh, very nice, you know theexecutive assistant, so that's
even a great connection for usin DC as well.
Kristina Hebert (27:00):
So, how do people, how do non-members?
First off, is there a captain'smembership, or should captains
become a member of MIASF?
Patience Cohn (27:09):
Well, we don't really have that.
I mean, we do represent theindustry and that's why, by
helping the crew, we help theindustry, because the boats come
.
That's how that process works.
There's resources on thewebsite.
There are resources.
We posted the most recentletter.
(27:32):
We have the old B-1 visa letter, which is always good.
It's the same as it, the rulesare the same as what it says in
that letter, and so that'salways good.
Kristina Hebert (27:52):
I get calls with captains or crew with
questions.
I think, as a member, though,too, I mean we are all
interfacing with this crew.
Obviously, mia's is electrical,but there's another air
conditioning company, or there'ssomebody in hydraulics, or
there's somebody doing interiorand we're all interfacing with
them and we're hearing all oftheir stories, or we're hearing
how they may or may not havegotten in, or they had some
(28:12):
trouble, and I think it'simportant for all of us to chime
in.
Well, I can help you with that.
What do you need?
I mean, we want to make surethat every one of these boats,
regardless of the yard,regardless of the marina,
regardless of the house that'sbehind that, they keep coming,
and so I think, if people hearsomething or hear of a negative
experience, we should all chimein and say we're here to help
(28:32):
you in any way, and I neverdon't take a call.
Patience Cohn (28:35):
If a crew member calls, the advice I give them it
may not be what they want tohear.
I may say that's toocomplicated, you're going to
need an immigration attorney ifyou want to do that.
Or here, call this guy, he can.
Kristina Hebert (28:51):
Absolutely.
Patience Cohn (28:52):
Or maybe you need to have an agent or, depending,
I would direct them towards theagency or the person that they
should talk to.
Gotcha.
Kristina Hebert (29:03):
So I wanted to go back to this day work, day
job, day worker topic.
I know for me, you know I lookat it, and as an electrical
company I look at it as I'm noteven talking about somebody
that's on a visa.
I'm talking about a US citizen,a US.
You're an American citizen, you, you work in the US, but
(29:26):
somebody hires you as a dayworker.
That's illegal, regardless ofyour immigration status.
You're a citizen.
So to be in a yard, let me takethat back.
Patience Cohn (29:37):
It's probably not illegal.
It's probably not illegal.
Kristina Hebert (29:39):
It's not illegal, but it is not covered
by insurance and workers' comp.
And if a yard takes somebody inas a day worker and they have
exclusions under insurance whichwe'll get to in another episode
they're not covered and thentherefore the yard is
responsible for them.
But so yards should not beletting in day workers anyway.
But let's talk about dayworkers as it applies to crew,
(30:02):
because I think I kind ofmisspoke before.
But talk to me about day work.
Patience Cohn (30:05):
and how is day work is actually illegal for
foreign crew yes, your B-1, b-2visa says that you will not work
in the United States.
Kristina Hebert (30:18):
Okay, and so, by definition, if they're
working in the United States,not attached to the vessel Right
.
Patience Cohn (30:24):
They're not crew.
Kristina Hebert (30:25):
The vessel is the opportunity allowing them.
The vessel just happens to bein the US, but that's their
place of employment, right?
The vessel, okay, gotcha.
So in my case, what I wastalking about for day workers,
it's not illegal as a US citizen, but it is frowned upon from a
(30:45):
workers' comp OSHA perspective.
That's a separate.
So I wanted.
Patience Cohn (30:47):
OSHA perspective.
That's a separate, so I wantedto show clearance.
That's a different world.
Kristina Hebert (30:51):
From a foreign crew.
It's illegal.
Patience Cohn (30:55):
This is back to the domestic employment we
talked about.
When you fly into the countryYep, not to a boat, correct you
just fly into the country youcan look for a job, but you
can't earn money while you'rehere but you cannot work in the
country.
It's very specific in the rules.
(31:17):
When you accept your B-1 visa,you accept to abide by those
rules.
Gotcha, abide by those rules.
And the B-1 visa is reallyintended for the German paper
company that wants to sell tocustomers in America and the
(31:37):
salesperson can come into thecountry and visit all the
clients that he wants to sell to, but he's being paid by his
company in Germany to representthem here, he doesn't get to
stay here, he just gets to comevisit his clients and go back.
Okay, that's kind of what theB-1 visa is for that kind of
(31:59):
business.
Kristina Hebert (32:00):
So is day work in a foreign crew prevalent.
Patience Cohn (32:06):
It's very prevalent.
Unfortunately, it's been kindof the crude, dirty little
secret A lot of, and part of theproblem is that this is where
you come to find the good jobs.
Kristina Hebert (32:17):
I was just going to say.
I mean, I don't think thatthere is.
Is there so much of an intentto to be in violation of the
visa, or is it just?
You're already here and, likeyou said, this is the just.
You're already here and, likeyou said, this is the place you
come to get the job.
So you're, but you're allowedto look for the job.
You just can't work here okay,and you can.
Patience Cohn (32:35):
I mean you can go to the bahamas, sign the
contract and fly back.
Kristina Hebert (32:38):
Okay, you can't so what about if somebody says
the argument of oh my gosh, ifwe get rid of this day work,
this is going to be detrimentalto all of the crew that's out
there and we're going to end upwith yachts without crew.
Patience Cohn (32:53):
Nature loves a vacuum.
Kristina Hebert (32:54):
Okay, so it's not an issue that we're really
concerned about from a workforceperspective.
I don't believe so Okay, andhave we seen it on the rise or
down, or it's just somethingwe're talking about now because,
as it relates to immigration,as it relates to immigration,
there's more attention paid tothe fact that.
So six months ago we weren'treally talking about this
(33:15):
because immigration wasn't asmuch of the issue.
And the reality is we are anindustry, we want to be
law-abiding.
We want the crew in our Listen.
Without the crew, the vesseldoesn't operate.
If the vessel's not operating,the vessel's not here.
Companies like me cannot get onthe boat to do the work.
So I support the crew and Iwant the crew, but we need them
(33:35):
to do so lawfully and be helpful.
So where can the crew getadditional information?
What are the resources?
I know there's crew houses, Iknow there's associations, but
talk to me, where should thecrew go to get the right
information?
Patience Cohn (33:52):
It's in plain print on the CBP's website.
Kristina Hebert (33:55):
Okay, just go to cbpgov it is.
Patience Cohn (33:59):
We have several immigration attorneys that are
members of ours and they'reregistered.
They're listed in our directory.
They'll speak to you briefly tofind out if you have a case
that's client-worthy.
Kristina Hebert (34:16):
They'll be honest with you.
So there's plenty of resourcesto be helpful.
Nobody is trying to throw outcrew and be—.
Patience Cohn (34:22):
Nobody wants to throw them out.
But if you're thinking you'resmarter than— CBP, don't, don't.
Okay, wants to throw them out.
Kristina Hebert (34:28):
But if you're thinking you're smarter than cbp
, don't, don't, okay and anddon't push your luck because in
the end it's going to catch upwith you when you try to come
back for that next job, for thatdream job, you may not get your
visa issued.
Patience Cohn (34:39):
and and you know honestly please don't anyone
take this badly but I I workedin yachting for a long time.
If we told the boss that adeckhand couldn't work for us
anymore because he didn't havethe right visa, or he would say
oh yeah, bob was a good guy.
Right, right, go find meanother one, yeah, find another
(35:04):
one.
I'm not saying that they're allimportant to the crew, but this
guy's not going to give upboating because.
Kristina Hebert (35:16):
He's not going to give up yachting or the
destinations he wants to go tohe or she wants to go to because
of a crew visa issue.
They will just simply find theright crew to get it done.
Patience Cohn (35:25):
So bottom line crew follow the visas.
They try to get it done.
So bottom line Solve theproblem.
Kristina Hebert (35:27):
Crew follow the visas.
They try to make it very andbottom line communication,
communication, communication.
When in doubt, reach out to CBP, reach out to the consulate in
your country of origin so thatcorrect in order to it doesn't
hurt, it doesn't you have tohave an abode, an international
(35:49):
abode.
Patience Cohn (35:49):
You have to have a residence that is not in the
United States.
If you're on rotation, Irecommend you don't go to see
Mickey Mouse on your rotation.
I recommend you go back to yourforeign country and show that
you're at your residence,Because that when you go to
renew your visa visa or whenyou're coming in, the computer's
(36:09):
not your friend.
They used to go through andlook at the stamps in your book.
Now they call you up on acomputer and it tells you how
many days you're.
They don't even have to do themath anymore, Right, they can
just look and see how many daysyou were in the country and they
can also see where you went andwhere you came from.
So if you're not, I had someonecall me the other day, had been
(36:29):
in the country over two yearsand had only been out of the
country like a hundred days outof the two years, and I and they
, he came back in and they hadgiven him a month to get out of
the country and he said what doyou, what do you think?
And I said well, your residenceis this country.
And I said but show me yourrecord.
You only spent seven days there, you know.
(36:50):
You think they believe you livethere.
Kristina Hebert (36:53):
Do other countries have the same?
There are strong laws in allcountries Right, so it's not any
more burdensome here than it is, for the most part, in any
other country.
Patience Cohn (37:04):
You have hot jobs there, so nobody goes there,
gotcha Okay.
Kristina Hebert (37:08):
So it's mainly because of the type of work
that's being done here.
Well, I mean, to me it makessense.
The laws haven't changed, theinterpretation hasn't changed.
Cbp is still very muchsupportive of the industry.
We know exactly which visa toget and what to do.
We just need to abide by therules.
Well, thank you for calling allof that out.
(37:29):
Patience, thank you for beingon Season 3 of the Wardsway
Podcast, and I appreciate youhaving me here today.
Patience Cohn (37:35):
Thank you for having me Absolutely.
Kristina Hebert (37:39):
Thank you for joining us this season on Season
3 of the Wardsway Podcast.
Be sure you subscribe becausethere's much more to come.
Welcome to the Season 3 Wards Way podcast,
where we're covering the hotlegislative topics of 2025.
From tariffs to tunnels andbridges, from foreign trade
zones to workers' compensation,to the Fort Lauderdale
International Boat Show, to theMarine Research Hub, industry
(00:22):
experts and clarification on theB1, b2 visas.
Join us as we celebrate 75years in business and we're just
getting started.
So I think we should talk about.
So let's talk about where weended up with CBP, let's what
happened in Palm Beach and andthen what caused the um, the
meeting that was had recently,earlier this month.
Patience Cohn (00:45):
So every year at FLIBS we host a captain and crew
FLIBS Fort Lauderdale.
Kristina Hebert (00:50):
International Boat Show.
Thank you, okay.
I assume the world does I know.
Well, the world does know us.
Patience Cohn (00:58):
We host a captain and crew panel where we invite
higher ranking and local agentsfrom Customs and Border
Prevention and US Coast Guardand anybody else that has some
relevant information.
A couple of times when the taxcap was new, or the refit and
repair tax cap was instituted,we'd have like a CPA that helped
(01:22):
us institute it, come and talkabout what the regulations were.
So it's just an information,open conversation, not the us
and them kind of guys, so we canget to know each other.
Kristina Hebert (01:35):
And I've been to those.
They're very successful.
I mean, it seems like a lot ofdialogue going back and forth.
I feel like the officers arethere, very patient, answer the
questions that I think they'veanswered multiple times, but
they'll answer them again, yeah.
Patience Cohn (01:51):
And, yes, it works really well, and a couple
of the agents that usuallyattend that thought that it
would be a good idea to do itduring the Palm Beach Boat Show
Makes sense, and they gave thema venue to do it and I helped
them with giving out theinvitations to get people to
come, the agencies to come.
They sent a supervisor and twoexperienced agents from CBP Palm
(02:19):
Beach.
Okay, okay, I think that theywere a little overwhelmed with
the questions because it hadbeen announced that we were
being strong on immigration andso there's that higher sense of
(02:39):
concern about being legally inthe country, right, and so it's
a sensitive topic, at least asfar as crew is concerned.
It's a sensitive topic becausea lot of our boats are foreign
flag and a lot of our crew are.
Because the boat's foreign flag, they're foreign as well, and
so it was timely and thequestions started simply enough,
(03:02):
sure.
And then they he didn'tmisspeak, but I think he
misunderstood what he wasanswering about whether foreign
crew can be on a foreign boatwhen it's in the dry dock,
because in his mind it was work,that you can't take jobs away
(03:25):
from Americans on American soil.
Kristina Hebert (03:27):
Well, and I feel like Dry Dock they're
thinking, cbp is thinking verylong-term commercial ship eight,
ten months in a yard.
Patience Cohn (03:35):
Definitely had the commercial ship.
Okay, and in furtherquestioning, like you know, can
the crew like vacuum the rugsand you know, polish the silver
and do what they normally do.
He was like all right, I needto look more into this.
I'll get you.
I'll go back and look up theanswer and get back to you.
That part did not make theinternet Right.
(03:59):
The internet heard and instead,the panic set in the internet
heard.
Crew cannot work on foreign.
Crew cannot work on boats whenthey're in the shipyard when
it's out of the water.
In the shipyard.
Kristina Hebert (04:12):
Which is absolutely false.
That's correct, and so I doknow that it sent a lot of
people and so you were helpfulin coordinating a meeting we had
in Port Everglades at the CBPoffice, right.
Patience Cohn (04:26):
With, well, the head of small passenger vessel
and small vessel and passengerentry from DC who's the big boss
?
Yep Zoomed in yes, he did.
And then the deputy directorfrom the district Tampa, miami
district was in attendance, andthen officers from different
(04:48):
disciplines because CBP has acouple of immigration cargo
entry.
They had multiple areas and Ihave to say they knew what the
topic was for this meeting.
Kristina Hebert (05:01):
This was not like, oh, the industry wants to
come.
Was for this meeting.
This was not like oh, theindustry wants to come.
And I have to say I found it tobe very pleasant, considering
the CBP knew they were kind of alittle in the hot seat with the
industry if there's such I mean, we have such a good
relationship and goodcommunication but they kind of
knew like we're going to need todo some cleanup here.
The industry is not happy withwhat this and how this
(05:24):
presentation went and how thismisinformation is going.
But I have to say you didn'tget that sense at all from the
meeting.
It was very much kumbaya.
There had to be 25 people inthat meeting from every acronym
of association and all the keypeople that I think you felt
were important.
Our federal lobbyist was there,several facilities were
(05:46):
represented there, crew agenciesrepresented.
Patience Cohn (05:51):
Triton and Doc Work were invited, as well as
media was there.
The media that, actually themedia that filmed the original.
Everybody was in the room, thatmaybe there were a few people
that got missed, but there wasenough people to know that too,
so everybody was really comingtogether to say how do we get
this corrected?
Kristina Hebert (06:11):
here, how did we get here?
And and let's get thiscorrected, and I also try to
remind people remember, cpp wasonly instituted in what?
2003?
It's only been a little over 20years.
Remember, all of this came about, and I will say, oh, I could
toss a lifeline to Jordan, myproducer when was CBP founded?
(06:33):
I feel like it was 2003.
Jordan Boffner, by the way, andI mean, remember all of this
came about after 9-11.
Department of Homeland Securitywas created.
So, anyway, I guess my point isthat this is not something that
we've had.
My company is 75 years and theassociation oh, I was right
(06:55):
March 1st 2003.
And so, in 22 years, not onlyhave we gone through and worked
with CBP, but CBP didn't exist,but CBP is now really, I feel,
due to a lot of work that you'vedone in, specifically, the
marine industries, understandingour industry, understanding
that we are trying to complywith their regulations, that we
(07:16):
are not the industry that wewant them to worry about, that
we want to get the correctinformation out, and I think
that you've been able to provethat.
Patience Cohn (07:31):
Yes, they're very willing to work with us, and it
is a case of not understanding,even when crew fly in with
papers that say they're going toa yacht and the proper, because
originally we had to have aletter, if you remember.
Kristina Hebert (07:41):
I do.
I remember that we had to havea letter.
Patience Cohn (07:42):
If you remember, I do I remember that we crafted
a letter that said yacht crewthe appropriate visa is a B1 to
work on a.
They'd be entering the countryto work on a yacht because it's
not commercial, because theywere getting a commercial C1D
which only allows you 29 days inthe country and there's no
extension.
You're out.
But that's for commercialvessels that aren't supposed to
(08:06):
be cruising the United States.
They come, they drop whatevercargo and they leave.
That's what that commercialcrew does.
Kristina Hebert (08:16):
And they know CBP understands that that's not
what our crew does, and so evenin this meeting there was some
going back and forth.
So how did we conclude?
I do know that we had asked forCBP to issue a statement
clarifying what this statementmeant or how it's actually being
(08:36):
enforced.
Talk to me about that, and Iknow you got that about a week
ago.
Patience Cohn (08:40):
Well, we got it from local.
We have not gotten the—.
Kristina Hebert (08:44):
Okay, what does that mean?
Patience Cohn (08:46):
The Tampa Miami field office answered—sent us an
email that described basicallythat you could work in the
boatyard.
You can't do the bottom work.
The work that the shipyardtraditionally does is still the
shipyard's job.
You can't do that If it's a jobyou would normally do on your
(09:08):
boat.
Kristina Hebert (09:09):
So the example I heard was that the chef can
cook for the crew, can feed thecrew absolutely and absolutely.
That's what they normally do.
Nobody would be hiring anoutside contractor to come in
during that yard period forcooking.
So there's no, nobody'sstealing a US job and that is
the job that the crew was thatship usually.
(09:31):
So that was key.
The other one that I heard, thepoint of clarification was the
crew needed to either arrivefrom foreign with the boat or
leave foreign had to be part.
Patience Cohn (09:44):
one leg of the voyage had to be by vessel.
Kristina Hebert (09:48):
And it was even further clarified because we
were all sticking our hands waydown in that what-if bag and I
believe it was a lawyer at thetable who asked the question who
said, okay, so the crew arrivedforeign, but they're leaving to
go to New England before theydepart foreign.
And my understanding was, if itarrived foreign, you know, so
(10:11):
the crew member arrived with theboat foreign, the boat is not
immediately leaving, but it'swithin that six months, it's
within that 180 days.
The crew can continue north orcontinue inside the continental
United States, as long as theydepart within that six months.
What they cannot do is fly inYep work and fly out so don't
(10:33):
arrive with the boat and don'tdepart with the boat and then
spend time in the yard periodworking that?
Patience Cohn (10:39):
that is where it would appear that that's a us
job, because they can consider,because that's committed,
considered domestic serviceright, but that's not the case.
Kristina Hebert (10:50):
That's not how our crew operate.
We know that they.
We do know that one of theissues was that for the I
apologize for the inaccuratevernacular that I may say but
the rotation, the crew rotation,that sometimes people were
saying well, they fly in andmaybe they rotate out before.
(11:11):
Well, then you're going to haveto modify the rotation, so a
crew member cannot fly in andnot depart with the boat.
But I find that unless it'sunder a very significantly long
refit period and if that's thecase that's going to be planned
out and then the rotations wouldbe coordinated from there but
that there really was no issue.
There wasn't a newinterpretation, there wasn't an
(11:34):
old interpretation gone bad, itwas just really a
misunderstanding of kind of apoint of clarification okay, it
both.
Patience Cohn (11:45):
They can.
Kristina Hebert (11:45):
Nothing's really changed they can come and
change go into the yard.
Patience Cohn (11:49):
If it's an extended period and the captain
wants key personnel to staylonger than six months, they can
either file for an extension,which you can even do it before
your visa expires.
Do it before it expires anduntil you hear their
determination, you're stilllegal.
You won't get in trouble if youfile for the extension, as long
(12:11):
as you don't wait 10 minutesbefore the thing expires to
apply for it so that they couldsay they had an engineer working
on a project and they wantedthem to be supervising the
project through the whole thing.
Kristina Hebert (12:23):
If they legitimately write what they
want and ask for the extension,they're probably going to get it
and the crew member has a proofof residency in another country
and the crew member is alsoreceiving foreign pay, right, so
it's really just kind of followthe rules none of it has
changed and I think it's key tohave a good.
(12:44):
What happens if you run intothat to that cbp agent?
Patience Cohn (12:48):
that is new, that maybe wasn't sure, that and and
that happens a lot a lot when,when an agent transfers into
this community, because most ofour agents know the yachting
community, because they grew upwith us figuring out the rules.
Kristina Hebert (13:05):
Absolutely over the last 20 years.
Patience Cohn (13:06):
Right.
We have a lot of agents thatare.
We have a lot of experience inthem so it's not very painful
around here.
But should they get a new agentor somebody gets transferred
out so they're filling a spot?
It usually takes us a littlewhile to get they read the rule
book.
They understand what the rulesays when you how to apply it,
(13:30):
how it gets applied and how it'sinterpreted is up to the agent
honestly, and it's up to theagent You've got to answer
honestly when they ask youquestions.
When you're clearing in,younger crew get nervous.
They think they're giving theright answer instead of giving
the truthful answer.
Kristina Hebert (13:52):
Well, I agree, and I heard the propaganda that
was also happening at thatmeeting that somebody misused a
word deported and I liked that.
Cbp and yourself, I agree,sitting at the head of the table
, I believe corrected thatimmediately and said our job is
not to deport anyone.
We are not actively out lookingfor crew that may or may not be
(14:15):
staying past their particularvisa time, or it's more of an
after the fact, Walk me throughthat.
So CBP is not walking aroundyards looking for crews and
asking them for their visabooklet or a date.
Patience Cohn (14:30):
To my knowledge, that's not happening and they
admitted that they were notdoing that.
That's not happening and theyadmitted that they were not
doing that.
Where we're ringing the bell iscrew that perhaps came to the
US and didn't have a job, okay,and maybe did a little bit of
day work illegally.
Kristina Hebert (14:51):
Okay.
Patience Cohn (14:53):
And then got a job they knew they would.
They eventually got a job andnow they're working on a boat
and the boat goes to the Bahamasfor a week and they come back
in and the agent looks at thebook and says but you were here
for five months.
How did you support yourself,gotcha?
And if you were doing day workdoesn't matter whether you were
(15:15):
on a foreign flag boat or a USboat.
Kristina Hebert (15:19):
Day work is illegal Day work should be
illegal for so many reasons.
Don't get me started on myworkers' comp, but soapbox, I
could get on that one too Daywork should just be banished
from everywhere.
Patience Cohn (15:31):
But day work is legitimately illegal.
It's always been illegal.
You cannot work do day work inthe United States on a B-1 visa,
and if they find that that'show you were supporting yourself
or you've perhaps stayed longerthan 50% of a year in the
(15:54):
United States, is another reasonwhy they might question that
you aren't, perhaps stayedlonger than 50% of a year in the
United States is another reasonwhy they might question that
you aren't.
In fact, it's an intent toimmigrate.
You're not allowed to do thateither and if you're breaking
those rules, they will generallysay you really should leave
today, or we're going to makeyou leave, correct, and you're
(16:16):
given the option in most casesbecause they're not being bad
guys, they just you broke therules, you got to go Right, and
if you take yourself out, you'llhave the opportunity to come
back.
Kristina Hebert (16:26):
I was going to ask that.
Patience Cohn (16:27):
And if they give you your ride home, it may be 10
or more years before your visawill be issued again.
Kristina Hebert (16:39):
So really, who's advising crew to do any of
this day work?
Or is it just the crew isexcited to get a job and come to
the US in an opportunistic way?
Patience Cohn (16:53):
I do think it's difficult to get most of them
come to the US, because that'swhere the boats are.
Kristina Hebert (16:58):
Or what if they lost their job here?
Talk to me about that one too.
Patience Cohn (17:01):
I didn't mean to interrupt you on that.
You can actually look for a job.
Kristina Hebert (17:05):
I was going to say isn't there something?
Patience Cohn (17:06):
But you can't take a job.
Kristina Hebert (17:09):
So walk me through that, Okay.
So I arrived on a foreign flagboat.
I've been here about threemonths.
Boat sold All new crew.
I'm let go.
What do I?
Patience Cohn (17:20):
do Well.
In March of 23, they passed arule that if you have a B-1, b-2
visa, you're allowed to lookfor work in the United States.
So I could stay and continue tolook for my, but you have to
support yourself and you can'twork while you're looking for
work.
You can't do day work oranything.
I can't, I can't, okay.
But you can look for work.
You can fill out applications.
(17:42):
You can go on interviews.
You can't, so you can look forwork.
Kristina Hebert (17:49):
But you need to go home before you take the job
.
Patience Cohn (17:51):
Your contract should be signed.
Kristina Hebert (17:53):
In your homeland.
Okay, the job, your contract,should be signed in your
homeland, not homeland just outof the country.
Patience Cohn (18:05):
Okay, that's good to know, but that's always been
the case.
It is Now.
They did say if you were on aboat and you wanted to change to
another boat, you could do thatOkay.
Kristina Hebert (18:09):
So a lot of it.
What I'm hearing is it soundslike there's a lot of common
sense.
It's a lot of communication.
If your intention is to followthe law and your intention is to
obey the rules, that likelyyou're really not going to run
into any kind of trouble.
And if you do, there's probablya mechanism there for you File
(18:31):
an extension, find the paperwork, whatever it is that you need
to do.
But if you're trying to avertthe law, then that's where you
run into the problem, but that'sreally not the case in our
industry.
We don't really have a lot ofbad apples as much as we have
misinformation.
Patience Cohn (18:49):
Misinformation and a lot of.
I stayed in the Holiday InnExpress last night, so I'm an
expert.
The crew tells the other crewwhat they should do, and maybe
that's not always the rightanswer.
I think it was La Quinta.
Is it Holiday Inn?
Kristina Hebert (19:04):
Maybe that was the high chair.
You remember how you felt likea champion at the high chair.
But it's good to know that CBPstill has a very good open line
of communication with theindustry.
Patience Cohn (19:17):
Their number one job is actually to encourage
economic economy and business.
It's a financial mandate, notnecessarily a policing mandate.
Kristina Hebert (19:34):
That's interesting.
Patience Cohn (19:35):
Very much interesting but also policing
the laws.
But they're supposed toencourage economic commerce.
Kristina Hebert (19:44):
So talk to me also about cruising license.
Now, that is also with CBP.
Patience Cohn (19:49):
That is also with CBP.
Kristina Hebert (19:51):
So we've gotten past so at this point, because
I feel like cruising licenseswere an issue too and that they
were being again.
It was misinformation andmisunderstanding.
How does a cruising licensework.
Patience Cohn (20:05):
Cruising license.
The rules of the cruisinglicense says that if the vessel
is to be used for personal use,the owner's use that.
The vessel may get a cruisinglicense Okay.
It should not enter commerce inany way.
Be for sale Okay.
And unfortunately, cbbconsiders charter commerce and a
(20:32):
lot of websites put boats thataren't even for charter in their
pictures.
Kristina Hebert (20:41):
I've seen that.
Patience Cohn (20:42):
And it says this vessel is not for charter, but
maybe one like.
It is Right and unfortunately,when they Google the name of the
boat and the first thing comesup is a full-page ad with small
print down that denies that it'snot for charter and it's listed
on charter, this boat.
It becomes a challenge toconvince them not.
(21:04):
And in some cases the principaland the boats are registered
not necessarily in Bob Jones whoowns the boat, but Correct,
it's in an LLC Jones LLC.
Right, because men with money,men and women with money, don't
put all their assets in theirpersonal names.
They have corporations.
(21:25):
So it took a little while toget them to understand that
you're looking for the MarchHare.
He's not there, right?
Because that's how this worldworks.
So now they have to have theprincipal of the corporation can
(21:47):
sign an affidavit that theseare the dates he plans to use
the boat, where he plans to go,and they'll give them a cruising
license.
It's just gotten a little morestructured.
Kristina Hebert (21:56):
Okay, but a boat can come in, ask for the
cruising license and it's okayfor the crew to be able to say
we're going to be here for aboutthree weeks ahead of time
because we have to get the boatready.
Absolutely, and I feel likethat at one point.
Patience Cohn (22:12):
Once they have a cruising license they're usually
18 months they pick up and goas they please.
Now, if a vessel is for sale,it doesn't restrict you.
You are allowed to still visitthe country.
You can't show the boat to a USowner, but you can still come
in and what you do is you haveto, and it becomes a little
burdensome because you have tocheck in at every customs
(22:33):
district, but you can go fromport to port.
You get a permission to proceed.
Yes, that's exactly it.
So there are boats that are forsale or do charter outside the
United States.
Kristina Hebert (22:47):
Correct.
Patience Cohn (22:49):
That choose not to get a cruising license but
just work on permission toproceed to go from port to port.
Kristina Hebert (22:56):
And how much time do you have to lead for
that permission to proceed?
Patience Cohn (23:00):
It's 24 hours 24 hours okay.
Kristina Hebert (23:03):
So I guess the bottom line is and we did ask
CBP to attend and be on thisSeason 3, and I understand if
they can or they can't, but thebottom line is CBP's works very
well with the industry, is afriend to the industry, holds us
accountable, you know we haveto abide by the laws rules are
the rules, but at the end of theday, their willingness to work
(23:26):
with us has just made all theall the difference in the world.
Patience Cohn (23:30):
Well, I mean when , at first, when they the
mandate was that the governmentwas going to maintain a strict
immigration policy and the worldwas like up in arms and
panicked and I understand ifsomebody has their life, even if
they're behaving Absolutely,they've obeyed the law and all
of a sudden they're hearing thatthey're going to be throwing
(23:51):
everyone out.
It's unsettling.
If you haven't broken the law,you're good.
Don't worry about it, becausethey don't want the good guys.
It's the ones that are notobeying the rules.
Sure, sure and I don't know.
I guess there was a lot ofupheaval about that for a while
(24:13):
that everyone was, but there'snothing up evil about that for a
while.
That that everyone was, butthere's nothing.
And they're.
And then the doc talk, gets theinternet, gets a story about
them hauling them off, andthey're not true.
When you get down to it, that'snot at all what happened it has
nothing to do with immigration.
Kristina Hebert (24:29):
Like I said, the um, you know, cbp is not ice
.
They're not intending to workwith ICE.
That is not their, that's nottheir job.
And so patience.
One thing I did want to saypatience, cohen, you are the
industry liaison with the MarineIndustries Association.
How long have you been doingthat?
Well, 19 years, 19 years, I knowthat you and I have served on
the board together and butyou've been single-handedly, I
(24:52):
would say one of the biggestadvocates and champions for us
as an industry, constantly stillgoing to Washington.
These relationships there's areason, I know you get beat up.
You're either what is it?
You're the town hero or thevillage idiot.
One way or the other, you getbeat up over CBP.
It's either all your fault oryou are the hero, cbp.
(25:14):
It's either all your fault oryou are the hero.
But I do think that I wouldcredit you for sure with having
that relationship and keepingthat going and spending the time
with the officers, especiallyafter maybe they have
encountered a vessel.
Does CBP reach out to you attimes and as an authority to go,
what do you want us to do withthis boat?
Patience Cohn (25:32):
CBP not so much.
They pretty much have theirthere's.
It's interesting, once in awhile coast I'll get a call from
coast guard and they'll say doyou know where such and such a
vessel is?
They're here, but they haven'tcleared in yet.
And what usually has happenedis an american captain has moved
up in size.
(25:53):
Okay, and perhaps it's he'sused to coming freely back and
forth with moving freelythroughout the country with an
American flag and an AmericanCorrect.
And perhaps there's a littleeducation that needs to happen.
Kristina Hebert (26:06):
Yeah, that's true.
Patience Cohn (26:09):
We're very fortunate in leaving CBP, but
the US Coast Guard, particularlyat Miami, which is where the
captain—.
Kristina Hebert (26:21):
And there was just a changing of the guards
for that, yes, last week.
Patience Cohn (26:24):
Okay, and we have a new captain of the port and
he's a great guy and we're verylucky because he just did a
tenure as the deputy captain ofthe port.
Kristina Hebert (26:32):
Oh, excellent, so you already have that
relationship, so that'simportant.
Patience Cohn (26:35):
So he's just moved up Great and his son just
got accepted to West Point, sohe's happy and the world is a
good place.
Kristina Hebert (26:42):
Okay, good, good to know.
Patience Cohn (26:44):
And our captain of the port, captain Cederholm,
is going to be the executiveofficer for the vice commandant.
Oh, very nice, you know theexecutive assistant, so that's
even a great connection for usin DC as well.
Kristina Hebert (27:00):
So, how do people, how do non-members?
First off, is there a captain'smembership, or should captains
become a member of MIASF?
Patience Cohn (27:09):
Well, we don't really have that.
I mean, we do represent theindustry and that's why, by
helping the crew, we help theindustry, because the boats come
.
That's how that process works.
There's resources on thewebsite.
There are resources.
We posted the most recentletter.
(27:32):
We have the old B-1 visa letter, which is always good.
It's the same as it, the rulesare the same as what it says in
that letter, and so that'salways good.
Kristina Hebert (27:52):
I get calls with captains or crew with
questions.
I think, as a member, though,too, I mean we are all
interfacing with this crew.
Obviously, mia's is electrical,but there's another air
conditioning company, or there'ssomebody in hydraulics, or
there's somebody doing interiorand we're all interfacing with
them and we're hearing all oftheir stories, or we're hearing
how they may or may not havegotten in, or they had some
(28:12):
trouble, and I think it'simportant for all of us to chime
in.
Well, I can help you with that.
What do you need?
I mean, we want to make surethat every one of these boats,
regardless of the yard,regardless of the marina,
regardless of the house that'sbehind that, they keep coming,
and so I think, if people hearsomething or hear of a negative
experience, we should all chimein and say we're here to help
(28:32):
you in any way, and I neverdon't take a call.
Patience Cohn (28:35):
If a crew member calls, the advice I give them it
may not be what they want tohear.
I may say that's toocomplicated, you're going to
need an immigration attorney ifyou want to do that.
Or here, call this guy, he can.
Kristina Hebert (28:51):
Absolutely.
Patience Cohn (28:52):
Or maybe you need to have an agent or, depending,
I would direct them towards theagency or the person that they
should talk to.
Gotcha.
Kristina Hebert (29:03):
So I wanted to go back to this day work, day
job, day worker topic.
I know for me, you know I lookat it, and as an electrical
company I look at it as I'm noteven talking about somebody
that's on a visa.
I'm talking about a US citizen,a US.
You're an American citizen, you, you work in the US, but
(29:26):
somebody hires you as a dayworker.
That's illegal, regardless ofyour immigration status.
You're a citizen.
So to be in a yard, let me takethat back.
Patience Cohn (29:37):
It's probably not illegal.
It's probably not illegal.
Kristina Hebert (29:39):
It's not illegal, but it is not covered
by insurance and workers' comp.
And if a yard takes somebody inas a day worker and they have
exclusions under insurance whichwe'll get to in another episode
they're not covered and thentherefore the yard is
responsible for them.
But so yards should not beletting in day workers anyway.
But let's talk about dayworkers as it applies to crew,
(30:02):
because I think I kind ofmisspoke before.
But talk to me about day work.
Patience Cohn (30:05):
and how is day work is actually illegal for
foreign crew yes, your B-1, b-2visa says that you will not work
in the United States.
Kristina Hebert (30:18):
Okay, and so, by definition, if they're
working in the United States,not attached to the vessel Right
.
Patience Cohn (30:24):
They're not crew.
Kristina Hebert (30:25):
The vessel is the opportunity allowing them.
The vessel just happens to bein the US, but that's their
place of employment, right?
The vessel, okay, gotcha.
So in my case, what I wastalking about for day workers,
it's not illegal as a US citizen, but it is frowned upon from a
(30:45):
workers' comp OSHA perspective.
That's a separate.
So I wanted.
Patience Cohn (30:47):
OSHA perspective.
That's a separate, so I wantedto show clearance.
That's a different world.
Kristina Hebert (30:51):
From a foreign crew.
It's illegal.
Patience Cohn (30:55):
This is back to the domestic employment we
talked about.
When you fly into the countryYep, not to a boat, correct you
just fly into the country youcan look for a job, but you
can't earn money while you'rehere but you cannot work in the
country.
It's very specific in the rules.
(31:17):
When you accept your B-1 visa,you accept to abide by those
rules.
Gotcha, abide by those rules.
And the B-1 visa is reallyintended for the German paper
company that wants to sell tocustomers in America and the
(31:37):
salesperson can come into thecountry and visit all the
clients that he wants to sell to, but he's being paid by his
company in Germany to representthem here, he doesn't get to
stay here, he just gets to comevisit his clients and go back.
Okay, that's kind of what theB-1 visa is for that kind of
(31:59):
business.
Kristina Hebert (32:00):
So is day work in a foreign crew prevalent.
Patience Cohn (32:06):
It's very prevalent.
Unfortunately, it's been kindof the crude, dirty little
secret A lot of, and part of theproblem is that this is where
you come to find the good jobs.
Kristina Hebert (32:17):
I was just going to say.
I mean, I don't think thatthere is.
Is there so much of an intentto to be in violation of the
visa, or is it just?
You're already here and, likeyou said, this is the just.
You're already here and, likeyou said, this is the place you
come to get the job.
So you're, but you're allowedto look for the job.
You just can't work here okay,and you can.
Patience Cohn (32:35):
I mean you can go to the bahamas, sign the
contract and fly back.
Kristina Hebert (32:38):
Okay, you can't so what about if somebody says
the argument of oh my gosh, ifwe get rid of this day work,
this is going to be detrimentalto all of the crew that's out
there and we're going to end upwith yachts without crew.
Patience Cohn (32:53):
Nature loves a vacuum.
Kristina Hebert (32:54):
Okay, so it's not an issue that we're really
concerned about from a workforceperspective.
I don't believe so Okay, andhave we seen it on the rise or
down, or it's just somethingwe're talking about now because,
as it relates to immigration,as it relates to immigration,
there's more attention paid tothe fact that.
So six months ago we weren'treally talking about this
(33:15):
because immigration wasn't asmuch of the issue.
And the reality is we are anindustry, we want to be
law-abiding.
We want the crew in our Listen.
Without the crew, the vesseldoesn't operate.
If the vessel's not operating,the vessel's not here.
Companies like me cannot get onthe boat to do the work.
So I support the crew and Iwant the crew, but we need them
(33:35):
to do so lawfully and be helpful.
So where can the crew getadditional information?
What are the resources?
I know there's crew houses, Iknow there's associations, but
talk to me, where should thecrew go to get the right
information?
Patience Cohn (33:52):
It's in plain print on the CBP's website.
Kristina Hebert (33:55):
Okay, just go to cbpgov it is.
Patience Cohn (33:59):
We have several immigration attorneys that are
members of ours and they'reregistered.
They're listed in our directory.
They'll speak to you briefly tofind out if you have a case
that's client-worthy.
Kristina Hebert (34:16):
They'll be honest with you.
So there's plenty of resourcesto be helpful.
Nobody is trying to throw outcrew and be—.
Patience Cohn (34:22):
Nobody wants to throw them out.
But if you're thinking you'resmarter than— CBP, don't, don't.
Okay, wants to throw them out.
Kristina Hebert (34:28):
But if you're thinking you're smarter than cbp
, don't, don't, okay and anddon't push your luck because in
the end it's going to catch upwith you when you try to come
back for that next job, for thatdream job, you may not get your
visa issued.
Patience Cohn (34:39):
and and you know honestly please don't anyone
take this badly but I I workedin yachting for a long time.
If we told the boss that adeckhand couldn't work for us
anymore because he didn't havethe right visa, or he would say
oh yeah, bob was a good guy.
Right, right, go find meanother one, yeah, find another
(35:04):
one.
I'm not saying that they're allimportant to the crew, but this
guy's not going to give upboating because.
Kristina Hebert (35:16):
He's not going to give up yachting or the
destinations he wants to go tohe or she wants to go to because
of a crew visa issue.
They will just simply find theright crew to get it done.
Patience Cohn (35:25):
So bottom line crew follow the visas.
They try to get it done.
So bottom line Solve theproblem.
Kristina Hebert (35:27):
Crew follow the visas.
They try to make it very andbottom line communication,
communication, communication.
When in doubt, reach out to CBP, reach out to the consulate in
your country of origin so thatcorrect in order to it doesn't
hurt, it doesn't you have tohave an abode, an international
(35:49):
abode.
Patience Cohn (35:49):
You have to have a residence that is not in the
United States.
If you're on rotation, Irecommend you don't go to see
Mickey Mouse on your rotation.
I recommend you go back to yourforeign country and show that
you're at your residence,Because that when you go to
renew your visa visa or whenyou're coming in, the computer's
(36:09):
not your friend.
They used to go through andlook at the stamps in your book.
Now they call you up on acomputer and it tells you how
many days you're.
They don't even have to do themath anymore, Right, they can
just look and see how many daysyou were in the country and they
can also see where you went andwhere you came from.
So if you're not, I had someonecall me the other day, had been
(36:29):
in the country over two yearsand had only been out of the
country like a hundred days outof the two years, and I and they
, he came back in and they hadgiven him a month to get out of
the country and he said what doyou, what do you think?
And I said well, your residenceis this country.
And I said but show me yourrecord.
You only spent seven days there, you know.
(36:50):
You think they believe you livethere.
Kristina Hebert (36:53):
Do other countries have the same?
There are strong laws in allcountries Right, so it's not any
more burdensome here than it is, for the most part, in any
other country.
Patience Cohn (37:04):
You have hot jobs there, so nobody goes there,
gotcha Okay.
Kristina Hebert (37:08):
So it's mainly because of the type of work
that's being done here.
Well, I mean, to me it makessense.
The laws haven't changed, theinterpretation hasn't changed.
Cbp is still very muchsupportive of the industry.
We know exactly which visa toget and what to do.
We just need to abide by therules.
Well, thank you for calling allof that out.
(37:29):
Patience, thank you for beingon Season 3 of the Wardsway
Podcast, and I appreciate youhaving me here today.
Patience Cohn (37:35):
Thank you for having me Absolutely.
Kristina Hebert (37:39):
Thank you for joining us this season on Season
3 of the Wardsway Podcast.
Be sure you subscribe becausethere's much more to come.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.