Curator Michael Jacobs on the Museum of the Southern Jewish Experience

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
And I think particularly now that's as
important as ever, is showinghow impactful history can be and
also how telling it can be.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Warfare of Art and Law, the podcast that
focuses on how justice does ordoesn't play out when art and
law overlap.
Hi everyone, it's Stephanie,and that was Michael Jacobs,
curator at the Museum of theSouthern Jewish Experience,
based in New Orleans.

(00:35):
In the following conversation,michael shares how the museum
explores the evolution of Jewishculture in the South and how,
through its many exhibitions andpermanent collection, the
museum can speak to historicaland social justice.
We also discuss the relevanceof the Holocaust today and

(00:57):
Michael highlights theimportance of rapid response
collecting to document historyin the making for future
generations.
Michael Jacobs, welcome toWarfare of Art and Law and
Second Saturday.
Thank you so much for beinghere, of course, thank you so
much for having me so happy tobe here.

(01:20):
We met when I was visiting theMuseum of the Southern Jewish
Experience and I was surprisedto even find this institution
and it was wonderful.
So if you would kind of sharehow you came into it and a bit
about the museum.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Sure, well, I guess I can start a little bit about
the history of the museum, kindof like where we started.
So we started back in Utica atthe Jacobs Summer Camp in Utica,
mississippi, back in 1989.
We originally kind of startedout with our founder, macy Hart.

(01:59):
Macy was running the camp atthe time and around the late 70s
to 80s there was a massivedepopulation in the southern
Jewish community which involvedmany synagogues closing.
And when the synagogues wereclosing, a lot of the people
still there didn't know what todo with these artifacts, with
the things that were on the Bema, whether it be the chairs, the

(02:22):
torahs, the prayer books, um,and they called macy, saying
macy, we don't know what to dowith all this stuff.
Can you help us?
Because you was, even at thattime, a pillar in the southern
jewish community and, luckilyfor them, uh, the camp just
opened up their firstair-conditioned building and
macy said we can take it, we cantake your stuff from your
synagogues to make sure thatthey're protected.

(02:43):
So over the the course of 20years, the museum started
amassing all of thesecollections from synagogues and
then eventually, around 2012,the museum was picked up and
moved from the camp and taken toJackson, mississippi, and
became part of the ISJL.
Now the ISJL is the Institutefor Southern Jewish Life that is

(03:05):
still in operation today andthen the museum kind of was
really living at the center kindof more and as a repository and
storage and not really beingstill accessible to the public.
And then the decision was made,unfortunately right before
COVID, to move all of theartifacts to a new site and

(03:26):
build a separate museum in NewOrleans.
So we are about to celebrateour fourth year open, which has
been wonderful, and luckilyaround the time that the Museum
of Virginia was going to openback in 2019.
I was lucky enough, my motherbeing the amazing woman that she
is, told me about this museumopening up.

(03:47):
She's like I was finishing upgrad school at a university in
DC and I knew I wanted to be inthe museum field.
I knew I wanted to do SouthernJewish history, but she told me
about this museum opening and Iwas like, oh you know, maybe
five, ten years, maybe I'll beable to work there.
That would be my dream.
But I had no idea that within acouple, within two years, I

(04:07):
would be getting my dream job,which is being the curator of
the Museum of the SouthernJewish Experience and it's truly
.
I am so happy and so lucky tobe here.
This is just an amazinginstitution and I really think
the stories that we're tellinghere are so impactful and tell
upon such a unique part of theAmerican Jewish experience that

(04:27):
I really think is ignored by alot of the American Jewish
institutions.
And we get to tell thisincredible and unique story in
one of the most fun and probablyone of the most fun cities in
America, new Orleans.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
So true, the focus that the museum has.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
they had the research center and I don't know if
maybe now might be a point whereyou want to introduce that as
part of what the mission isexplores the many ways that the
Jews in the American Southinfluenced and were influenced

(05:06):
by the distinct culturalheritage of their new homes.
Through exhibits, collectionsand programs focused on the
unique and remarkable history ofsouthern Jews, the museum
encourages new understanding andappreciation for identity,
diversity and acceptance.
And that is our missionstatement and I really can now
talk a little bit more about howwe and that is our mission
statement and I really can nowtalk a little bit more about how

(05:28):
we explore all those incrediblecultural distinctions through
our exhibits and now through ournew third floor.
So back in November we wereable to expand to the third
floor of our building, which nowincludes our new temporary
exhibit space, and then to thethe left side, our new Chapman
Family Research Center, andwithin the Chapman Family
Research Center we have the BenMay Reading Room, which includes

(05:51):
a reference library and then aplace where we can do genealogy
workshops and have patronsinteract with our archive, which
is right next door, which isthe Joanne B Freed archival
vault I love the name and in ourvault we have over 375
collections Now.
In those 375 collections andboxes we have over 4,000

(06:15):
artifacts Now on display.
We only have about 1% already ondisplay and we have such an
incredible growing collection.
On a weekly basis I'm gettingnew donations and because of how
many donations we're gettingand how many actual items we're
needing, we have just hired anew archivist who works in our

(06:37):
Perlin Family Digitization andConservation Lab who helps me
kind of work with just theincredible amount of artifacts
and material that we have, andwe really have a little bit of
everything from traditionalJudaica to prosthetic limbs, to
military uniforms, toConfederate Jewish diaries, and

(07:01):
we have really a little bit ofeverything.
That really just shows howdiverse the southern Jewish
community really is, and Ireally think that having this
new third floor space where wecan interact with our patrons is
really incredible.
One of the big things thatwe're pushing is doing genealogy
workshops and helping peopletrace their southern Jewish

(07:22):
roots.
We have access to ancestrycom,newspaperscom, find a grave, and
we've started to help patronsand set up meetings with people
who wanna kinda learn how to dothat kind of work.
We're also collectingunpublished family histories,
which are vital in helping uskind of connect the dots of all

(07:43):
these southern Jewish families,and one of the great things
about that is we have suchincredible interns that we get
to work with.
This summer we had five internsworking with us.
One of their projects wasworking on a Texan Jewish family
and their genealogy tracingback over 200 years.
She was able to connect over200 family members and create an

(08:05):
incredible family tree showingjust how diverse this family has
gone and how many differentdirections.
And in that collection weactually have some original
doilies done by some of thedaughters of the family
patriarch who came to Texas, inCorsicana, in 1860.
And we have their doilies thatwere made during that time, as

(08:29):
well as multiple items ofcutlery, porcelain, glassware.
We have a collection of icecream dishes that were just
given to us that are gilded inincredible condition, and it
just kind of shows we never knowwhat we're going to get until
we get the top of the donor andthen we are just shown this
incredible world um that somepeople really just don't know

(08:52):
much about, and that's what Ilove about like this museum and
what we can do here for theseitems that you're gathering and
receiving, will you be puttingthem into a space where people
can interact with them, or howwill that go forward?
So whenever we get a newdonation, I always tell donors

(09:12):
there is no guarantee that anyitem you give us will be on
display, because that's apromise that I could never
fulfill with everyone.
We just don't have the space asmuch as I would love to do that
.
There is just no guarantee.
But what I do tell every donoris that every item you give to
us will be processed, digitizedand protected in a

(09:34):
climate-controlled, sealed vaultthat will help preserve your
family's history for the next 20, 50, hopefully 100 years, 50,
hopefully 100 years.
Um, but when I do get thechance to put something new on
display, I always get to tellthe donor.
Um, for example, great timing.
Just this week I'm working withone of our great local vendors
on adding a couple new additionsto our permanent exhibit

(09:57):
downstairs.
Um, we are working on one, two,three, four, five actually wow,
yeah, five new items that we'reputting on display.
Some of those items areactually from early general
stores by some Jewish patrons.
And then I think one of themost interesting items is
actually a moonshine, I guess awhiskey jug from a Jewish

(10:21):
whiskey family who owned asaloon and whiskey company out
in Bayou Sarah, louisiana, andBayou Sarah doesn't actually
exist anymore because theychanged the way the river went
and it dried up the bayou.
But this family had a wholeindustry and ran a whole whiskey
company.
And then we have a photo of thesaloon and the man actually

(10:42):
holding the whiskey jug in frontof it, circa maybe 1890s, and
it's really cool.
We get to tell these reallyincredible little stories that
really tell of just such aninteresting life for so many of
these southern Jews who startedout, just like many other people
in America, as immigrants.
This is an immigrant story,just like so many other people

(11:02):
that come to this country.
This is just another example ofimmigrants coming to this
foreign land not knowing thelanguage, not knowing the
culture Definitely nothingkosher for most of them in the
South, that's for sure and thencoming here and then being able
to succeed, it's truly a successstory.
Now, of course, not everyonewas able to succeed, but for
many of them they started out aspeddlers, ran a general store.

(11:26):
That general store turned intoa department store and that
department store might haveturned into an entire empire.
And that's truly what I thinkis so incredible about what we
do here we get to tell thesewonderful stories that were
really impactful to the Southand particularly to the built
environment.
When we talk about SouthernJewish life, it's really not

(11:47):
just the big cities but thesmall towns, these small little
towns that you may never haveheard of Oxford, mississippi,
port Gibson, mississippi as welland these smaller, not as big
towns as Birmingham, alabama orAtlanta, georgia, but just as
important to the southerneconomy for these ideas of the

(12:08):
Jew store.
These Jewish stores were thefirst stores in a lot of these
towns, and these towns werebuilt around these Jewish stores
that were vital to these towns'existence.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
So I guess I would ask you then too, how you're
merging technology, how are youweaving that in with this
history?

Speaker 1 (12:28):
The past two years that I've been here at the
museum I've definitely made aconcerted effort into
digitization, digitizing ourcollection, having it more
accessible online and one of ourexhibits in the last gallery we
have the interactive quilt aswell as the state-by-state
panels, and one of my pastinterns uh, last summer

(12:50):
digitized 200 artifacts and theymade 200 entries into that
state-by-state exhibit, whichallows patrons to look at items
in our collection that are noton display, connected to
different southern towns.
So we have these artifacts, likeyou said, from these tiny
little towns that no one wouldever hear of Morgan City,

(13:11):
louisiana, we have these itemsfrom that one city that may not
be on display but because wehave it photographed in
descriptions, now patrons cansee, kind of get a look behind
the scenes into our archive andsee images that are digitized
and they can interact andexplore throughout the South,
particularly on the third floor.
Now as well, with our newexhibit, a temporary exhibit on

(13:34):
the Jewish Orphans Home, we havetwo kiosks open up with oral
histories and alumni profile.
So the Jewish Orphans Home,opened up in the mid-1850s,
closed in 1946.
And throughout that time weactually were able to have
people have recordings of thealumni of the home which were

(13:55):
orphans, and we have dozens ofthese interviews for patrons to
explore, as well as justprofiles on famous alumni and
talking about their stories,photographs, talking about their
experiences in the home andthen how they were able to
succeed outside of the homebecause of the tools given to
them in the home, particularlythe wonderful education they got

(14:18):
at Newman High School, whichstarted out as Isidore Newman
Manual Trading School forOrphans.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
When you first go.
In my memory is there's a filmgoing.
Yes, and is it from ShalomY'all?

Speaker 1 (14:30):
So the film actually was created specifically for the
museum.
It actually includes audio fromsome Southern Jews, some people
from our board, talking abouttheir experience overlaid with
images from our collectionpeople from our board talking
about their experience overlaidwith images from our collection.
But we do actually have theShalom Y'all photography run on

(14:50):
our second floor when you comeinto our rental space on the
back brick wall.
We have Shalom Y'all actuallyon there as well.
But no, the downstairs videowas actually created
specifically for the museum andit actually won an award, which
I think I have to give creditfor.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
That is, it's an incredible, eight minute
impactful video and then one ofthe prior exhibits that I read
about was a better life fortheir children.
Yes, would you kind of describea bit about that exhibit and
the connection that was beingmade with the communities Jewish
and non-Jewish?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Absolutely so.
The exhibit you're talkingabout was a exhibit that we got.
That was a traveling exhibitthat was created by photographer
author I call him historian aswell Andrew Feiler.
Andrew Feiler wrote a bookdescribing the very unique
experience between JuliusRosenwald, a Jewish vice

(15:47):
president of Sears and RoebuckCompany, around 1912 with Booker
T Washington and them workingtogether to build almost 5,000
schools for African Americanchildren in the South.
It really showed that earlykind of, I guess, collaboration
with Jewish and Black relationsdecades before the Civil Rights

(16:09):
Movement I mean, this is beforeWorld War I.
We're talking really early 20thcentury and we're showing this
connection between a verywealthy, affluent Jewish
entrepreneur with at the timeone of the most prevalent
activists for African Americanrights, booker T Washington,
collaborating together in what'sreally not well known today by

(16:31):
many people.
There are over 500 of thesebuildings still standing
throughout the South, many ofthem still functioning up until
the 1970s in some capacity.
And it really shows that earlyblack Jewish relations and that
strengthening and showing thatthere should be cooperation
between these two groups.

(16:51):
And I think a really importantquote from Julius Rosenwald that
kind of encapsulates thisimportance of social justice
before the idea of socialjustice was really popular, and
I'm quoting this from him.
I am interested in America.
I do not see how America can goahead if parts of its people
are left behind.
So of course he's talking aboutthe African American community.

(17:13):
I mean, he believes that if wedo not pick up everyone in this
modern country, we'll all beleft behind and we have to
support one another to makeAmerica great for everyone, to
be inclusive, and so educationis able to have a side.
Education can be won byeveryone, and that's really

(17:35):
what's important is that this isa push for the education gap
that was plaguing the South,particularly in African American
communities, and he wanted togive them the same tools that he
had already um for them tosucceed yeah, and then uh also
an exhibit that uh was going onwhen I was there I think was
also showing this connectionbetween jewish and non-jewish

(17:57):
communities, and it was toldthrough postcards.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Would you share a bit about that one?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
yeah, sure.
So that was our past exhibit,um called greetings Main Street
Southern Jewish Postcards fromour collection.
So we had over 50 postcards puton display from all of the 13
southern states that wehighlight.
And what's really cool aboutthese postcards is when you
first look at them, a lot ofthem just show like a main

(18:23):
street of a town, the culturaldistrict or the business
district, but within each ofthese postcards there's a Jewish
business hidden through them.
Sometimes there's two, three oreven four.
I think was the most I found inone postcard.
And, of course, when these werebeing sold, they were not being
sold with the intention ofshowing Jewish businesses.
But it was really after a couplediscussions with our director,

(18:46):
kenneth Hoffman, that we werelooking at these postcards and
saying, wow, what an incredibleway to tell little mini stories
throughout these postcards isshowing how Jewish life is part
of southern life in its builtenvironment.
We are part of the builtbusinesses and the main streets
of all these southern towns andI show that through showing the

(19:07):
bigger cities, the smaller towns, and I think particularly for
one example is Greenville andGreenwood, mississippi, which
are right by each other.
Both of these postcards havefour Jewish businesses on the
main street and I was able totell a story about each of them
and for a lot of them thereisn't the building is gone.

(19:28):
Um, for 90% of these postcards,those streets, those distances,
they've all been taken down,they've been demolished, they've
been rebuilt, um, but thesepostcards are part of that
legacy, um, and for the fewcases that that so many
buildings still exist thebusinesses are not, but the
buildings are still part of thattestament of the southern

(19:52):
Jewish experience in this townthat Jews were there, we helped
build it, we helped maintain thetown and we helped it rise up
and usually to prosperity.
And I think that really kind ofshows kind of this parallel
society that lives in the southand many people when they drive
through these southern towns,don't really think, oh, wow,

(20:12):
look at all these Jewishbusinesses that used to be here,
but they're still.
But I think these postcardsreally show that legacy and also
they are extremely beautiful.
I think they are works of artand being able to expand them
into larger, more visuallyeasier to look at foam core

(20:33):
boards, you get to see all thesehidden details.
A couple times when we would doa scan and I would kind of blow
up the image, I would seesomething I didn't see before.
That's how we found Hoffman'sstore in Northfolk, virginia.
Mr Hoffland actually helpedcreate one of the trendiest

(20:53):
fashion statements of the time,which was the Hoffland suit for
young girls.
It was a type of dress that wasoverpriced at the time and
sadly his business failed within20 years.
But part of that legacy is thatthis postcard was taken of
Church Street looking north fromMain Street by night, and his
store is smack dab on the middleof it.

(21:13):
His store is right there infront and without, I think, the
exhibit, a lot of people wouldnot have known about many of
these businesses that flourishedthroughout the South from the
early 1900s up until the 1970s80s.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Talking earlier about the immigrant experience of
these families deciding to cometo America and facing all the
challenges to create businesseslike that.
Do you see also insight intowhat brought certain families to
like where they often leavingthe pogrom situation, or what

(21:51):
was it that pushed them intothis situation in order to start
fresh?

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I think that really depends on the region.
So I think one of the easiestexamples I can pull from is,
particularly in the South wehave a large group of French
Jews from all states of theregion and when I point out that
this is one of the first groupsto come from Europe, people say

(22:17):
, well, why would they come toNew Orleans?
Why, of all places I'm like,well, they speak French.
Right, this is the only placethat speaks French in America.
Of course they're coming to NewOrleans.
That's the place where theyfeel like they could actually
communicate with people and havean easier leg up compared to
some of their brothers andsisters from where I come from.

(22:37):
My family comes from the palesettlement, speaking Giddish,
speaking Russian, coming overhere not knowing the language,
not knowing the environment andcoming here really with nothing.
I think for a lot of thoseFrench Jews coming here, they
definitely picked New Orleans,knowing that this would be maybe

(22:57):
an easier chance of succeeding.
And then we have another groupof Jews coming from kind of the
German Jews from Central Europe,and a lot of them were escaping
a lot of the like theunification wars, the German
pressure war, the Germanunification wars and a lot of

(23:18):
them were escaping, beingconscripted into the military.
So they didn't want to fightfor the Tsar, they didn't want
to fight for the king, theywanted to leave.
So they had to come and had toescape.
To fight for the king, theywanted to leave.
So they had to come and had toescape.
And then for many of the Jewsliving in the Pale Settlement
and the shtetl it was thepogroms from the Tsar and the

(23:40):
Cossacks and a lot of them theyjust had to go.
They had to leave.
They didn't know where theywere going, but it was anywhere
is better than here.
And for a lot of Jews coming tothe south, particularly through
Galveston, there was actuallysomething called the Galveston
Plan which was an organizedeffort to get around 10,000 Jews
to come over from EasternEurope and resettle through

(24:03):
Galveston, with the help ofRabbi Henry Cohen and it was
kind of his brainchild to bringall these people and then kind
of set them off into the Southwhere there was more of a need,
there was more space, comparedto a lot of the Jews going
through New York, going to NewYork City.
There were tenements, there wasstill kind of the ghetto

(24:23):
experience there.
They, at least in Rabbi HenryCohen's mind had a chance to
kind of spread out and flourishinto areas that did not really
have manyedicts, which had a lotof, had positives and negatives
.
But for example, when you, ifyou are a shoemaker, you would
tell the rabbi you're ashoemaker, he would go up to his

(24:43):
wooden box, his Rolodex, andsay, ah, they need a shoemaker
in Jackson Mississippi.
And then he would pin thatlittle tag to you and send you
on your way and you would go onby railroad to Jackson
Mississippi to become the newcobbler for the new, for the
shoe store and a lot of thesepeople.

(25:04):
They had no idea where theywere going.
They have no idea what thisplace would be like.
They heard stories but I couldnot imagine some poor Jew from
the Stead of coming to Louisianaand experiencing humidity Same
thing with Galvestonexperiencing the heat I wish
there'd be something surreal andthen coming to this massive
foreign land where no one speaksyour language and then being

(25:29):
told this is where you work nowand then.
For them to succeed truly is agamble and for many of them it
was a good gamble and they wereable to succeed.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
We've given us so many little examples and stories
, but I would ask are therecertain artifacts, judaica or
anything, stories that youwanted to especially highlight
that resonated with you?
Perhaps something from yourfamily story?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, actually.
So there's one collection whichI'm excited that's actually
going to be on display at the StCharles Parish Public Library
coming up this fall.
It has to do with Holocaustsurvivors.
New Orleans actually had agroup of Holocaust survivors

(26:18):
come, just like many othercities called the New Americans.
New Orleans was not unique inthis aspect but for the New
Orleans experience, a coupledozen Holocaust survivors were
sponsored by the Federation downin New Orleans to come here and
emigrate and then to kind oflive in New Orleans.
And then one of those coupleswas Joseph Sperling and his wife

(26:40):
Ani Freed, who escaped theHolocaust Joseph's family.
So I guess this is just such abig story and I'm trying to
think how I could tell it in ashort time and it's really, I
guess the first thing I'll sayit's a love story.
This was trying to think how Icould tell it in a short time
and it's really I guess thefirst thing I'll say it's a love
story.
This is a true love story andsomething that when I was given

(27:01):
to by the donors I was told Ihad to make a promise that I
would tell this as a love storyand not as something sad, and I
always have to make sure that Itell people that that this is
truly a love story and that theyfound each other in one of the
worst circumstances, startingoff with Joseph Joseph Sperling.
His family comes from Poland.
Joseph was in school at theUniversity of Austria, I guess

(27:26):
not University of Vienna,trained to be a lawyer.
When the war broke out, him andhis family were taken by the
Nazis, taken to Bergen-Belsen.
His whole family was killed infront of him.
The Nazis kept him alive forthe sole purpose of being a
translator.
Joseph spoke five languages andthe Nazis wanted to use that.

(27:47):
They used him as what theycalled a scribe, which is a
translator, and they took himall throughout Nazi-occupied
Europe to multiple campsthroughout the war, transcribing
interviews with concentrationcamp victims, as well as forging
death certificates for the gaschambers.

(28:08):
He would change deathcertificates to say, instead of
dying in the chamber orcrematoria, heart attack or
something like that, which Icould not imagine, the trauma of
having to do that.
He was able to survive 32months in captivity and then,
with the war pushing the Nazisback, he landed all the way in

(28:31):
the Czech Republic and then wasliberated by the Soviets.
After being liberated by them,he was allowed to leave and go
to a local doctor to seek aidand, lucky for him, right down
the road was Dr Fried, andthat's where he met Ani.
Now Ani was working for herfather as a nurse, but before

(28:53):
the war, ani was one of the mostfamous soprano opera singers in
pre-war Germany.
Now Ani is not Jewish but, as aform of passive resistance,
decided to stop singing for theNazi's, rose to power and left
to become a nurse with herfather during the war for safety
.
Now, when Ani and Joseph met, Iam told within six months they

(29:17):
married and decided they had toleave Czechia because of the
Soviets pushing in and thenoccupying it.
So they decided to leave Europeand head to America and then,
in the early 50s, they emigratedfrom Europe, come to New
Orleans and then, when they livehere, from what I've told by

(29:37):
the donors, ani Fried wasactually a music teacher and
professor at Tulane and, eventhough she was not Jewish, was
known to sing at Temple Sinaiall the time, because, again,
when you have a soprano operasinger, you're gonna use her,
because we actually haverecordings of her operas as well
.
Incredible voice.
And then, when Joseph got back,he actually worked at Perlis's

(30:01):
as a bookkeeper and they lived ahappy life until both their
passings in the late 80s and 90s.
But how I came about thiscollection was actually they
never buy to adopt.
They kind of adopted two localchildren.
They were in there.
They weren't like childrenchildren but they're like in

(30:22):
their early 20s.
They became friends.
These kids, these young men,didn't really know the whole
story until they find out thatthey're Holocaust survivors and
this friendship kind of grows.
They both have a love for operaand they fall in love with the
singing of Ani Fried.
They become lifelong friends.
And then, fast forwarding to ayear ago, one of them comes to

(30:45):
the museum, talks to me aboutthat they have this collection,
and then they show me thissteamer trunk, a massive trunk
with the name Joseph, spurlingon it, with the old address for
the Federation building, and hesays I have all this stuff from
them.
I have this trunk, I have amenorah, I have all of Ani's

(31:06):
personal albums.
But there's another person whohas Joseph's concentration camp
jacket and I was like what doyou mean?
There's more?
And he was like yes, out innorthern Louisiana there's
another man who has stuff fromJoseph's past and over the
course of three months I'm ableto communicate with this person,
find them travel to northernLouisiana and he takes me to

(31:30):
their house and he takes me to acloset, pulls out a wooden
plaque and then takes me totheir house.
And he takes me to a closet,pulls out a wooden plaque and
then pulls out a bag.
In that bag is a concentrationcamp uniform along with multiple
other personal items.
After I open up the package, Ifind a uniform in there, as well
as a purse made with the samematerial and inside of that

(31:52):
purse a bottle of cologne, a tincup, a toothbrush, along with
multiple patches from multipleconcentration camps and a couple
other personal items.
And after talking to the donor,he tells me these are all
Joseph's.
He kept all these items afterthe war and because of his
special treatment by the Nazis,because of his, because of his

(32:17):
ability to be a translator, hewas allowed to keep a personal
bag with him with that bottle ofcologne in the tin cup.
The toothbrush came after wasgiven to him at a DP camp
because it has English writtenon it.
But as well.
But after finding all theseitems, I looked at the jacket
and I find in the pocket of thejacket a note.
I pull out the note and on thatnote is Joseph's writing saying

(32:40):
I will this item to donor'sname and I have his signature
and Ani's signature written onthis piece of paper Deeding
these items to the donor.
And he didn't know that thatwas in the jacket.
He hasn't touched the jacket in30 years years.
And I pulled it out and I'mlike this is yours and it's
Joseph's handwriting and hebegins to cry and it was such a

(33:05):
touching moment and the factthat I was able to have it bring
this collection together forthe first time since the passing
of the donors.
It's truly incredible.
I talked about the story for thefirst time since the passing of
the donors.
It's truly incredible.
I talked about this story forthe first time at the opening of
the third floor back in lastNovember and then I'm gonna put
this on display at the StCharles Parish Library this

(33:26):
coming Thanksgiving fall for ashort special exhibit.
It's all gonna be about theSperlings and their life here,
but I think that for me, is oneof the most impactful
collections I've been able towork with and save.
I think Particularly the steamertrunk, because that was
actually going to be sold off inan estate sale and I stopped it

(33:46):
from happening.
Once I saw the writing on it Iwas like no, that can't happen,
we will take it.
I don't know where we're goingto put it, but I want it and
it's important.
Um, and I'm so happy I did Umbecause I think that trunk
really encapsulates everything,because it all all the items
originally were in that trunk.
That's what he brought over.
He brought over all of thattrauma, all that history with

(34:08):
them and decided to keep it.
Um, and decided to keep it.
There are photos of him wearingthe jacket, giving speeches,
talking about his experiencewith people, and I think it
takes a certain type of personto be able to put on that kind
of jacket after I couldn'timagine the experiences that he
had to live through and thentalk about it and then still

(34:28):
have it after all those years.
It's really incredible and trulyit's one of the reasons why I
think this work is so impactful.
It's what telling these reallytouching stories and again, this
really is true love story.
One of the things I just gotrecently was actually a video
the only video we have of bothof them together at their house

(34:48):
on Magazine Street.
Ani seems to be acting at oneof her operas and they are
dancing and holding each other,smiling and kissing, and they
just look so happy and I'm sohappy we were able to find that.
I'm digitizing that and tryingto get it enhanced and I'm going
to try to at least get it outthere for the exhibit, having it
maybe running on like a littleiPad, just something to show

(35:11):
them together.
Moving, these moving imagesthat are in color, is so much
more.
It's so impactful, instead ofjust a black and white image,
people to see them moving,smiling, dancing, holding each
other it really, I think,encapsulates that love, that
really triumph.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Would that exhibit also make its way to the museum
itself?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
So this is just going to be an off-site exhibit and
then maybe in the future, if Ido an exhibit on the New
Americans as a whole, I would beable to bring that on display
again, but currently we don'thave anywhere to show it.
So I'm happy that they'regiving us opportunity and the
space to show this very specialcollection that we have.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
And that term New Americans I mean.
That in itself is somethingthat is completely worthy of an
exhibit, so can you expand a biton that?

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Sure, yeah.
So the idea of these NewAmerican clubs is what they were
called are.
They were organized whereverHolocaust survivors kind of
grouped and like met.
It would be in all these citiesall across America and a lot of
these new American clubs turnedinto the Holocaust museums we
see today.
So a lot of them can base theirorigins with these new American

(36:30):
clubs, these groups ofHolocaust survivors who would
meet up, whether it be atsomeone's house or at a store,
anywhere.
They would have these meetingrooms here in New Orleans.
It was in someone's house, butthey would just meet and be
together.
Sometimes they would sharestories, sometimes they wouldn't
share anything.
From what I was told about theone in New Orleans, it really

(36:50):
was a social club.
We have a couple of theirdirectories.
We have a list of activitiesthat they would do together.
From what I was told about theone in New Orleans, it really
was a social club.
We have a couple of theirdirectories, we have a list of
activities that they would dotogether and I really like to
think of it as a support groupof the time.
But also it's just a way whoelse would be able to share
those experiences with, or youwould have the trust to talk to
about or not talk at all aboutit, and a lot of times, from

(37:13):
what I was told, some peoplejust would never talk about it,
but they would want to be therein the present, in the moment,
with everyone else who had thatkind of shared trauma and that
experience.
Um, but it is really fascinating.
Again, this is the idea ofthese groups of people
collaborating together andbuilding all of these memorials
throughout the country, and Ithink for a lot of us we don't

(37:35):
really think well, who builtthese Holocaust museums?
Who were the ones that werepushing to have these built?
Well, of course, it was thesurvivors themselves that
organized their own groups allover the country, but here in
New Orleans we particularly havea very—we had a very active one
and well-documented, and Ithink it will make for an
excellent exhibit in the futureto tell the really important

(37:58):
story that I think is veryunknown to many people.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
The relevance today of telling these stories all the
ones you're talking about, butspecifically the stories of
Holocaust survivors and theirexperiences.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
How do you see the relevance of that currently?
I think it's important that weI think it's really tough, I
think, because of just how muchpain and suffering is happening
right now in the world and Ithink how divided the Jewish
community is today and I thinkit's important that we
understand and look back andlook back at our own past and

(38:38):
kind of see where we can lookfor sites of unity, places where
we can kind of work togetherand fight through a really tough
time in history, just like theydid.
I think we all feel that we arebeing attacked right now one
way or the other.
I think it's important for us,instead of being divided, we
work together because we know inthe past what happens when we

(39:01):
are divided.
We are stronger together and Ithink it's important that we get
these stories out there and wehighlight how impactful and
important they are and howhistory is.
History isn't in the past.
History is happening right now.
And I think that's importantjust with the name of the museum
Museum of the Southern JewishExperience, not the Museum of
Southern Jewish History, becausethe experience happened in the

(39:23):
past, present and the future andI think that's why our museum
can tell such important,impactful stories is because
we're not talking about the past.
We're talking about what it isnow and then what it could be in
the future, and I think beingable to tell stories that are
happening now is reallyimportant.
There's actually a term that Ithink most people don't know.

(39:46):
It's called rapid responsecollecting.
That's a newer term in themuseum field that basically
tells curators, anyone in thefield, to go out and collect the
things that are happening now,whether it be protests, whether
it be things that are happeningnow.
We are recording what ishappening in the present,
gathering information, artifacts, whether it be signs, whether

(40:09):
it be oral histories, t-shirts,banners, anything.
Because if we realize that,well, collecting stuff from the
past is great, collecting forthe now is also important,
because 50 years from now, thosesame items are going to be what
we wanted.
So if we collect it now withthe thought of the future and
what future generations willlook back and say wow, they

(40:31):
would reflect all this stuffcurrently in possibly one of the
most dividing times in ourcountry's history and the
American Jewish population, Ithink most recently and it's
kind of showing that impactfulmoment in history.
I would love to see, years fromnow, what they're talking about
and how our times right now arebeing discussed and what
artifacts they're bringing upbeing discussed and what

(40:54):
artifacts they're bringing up.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Everything that you're saying now, then, prompts
me to ask your perspective, andhow it's evolved, on this term
justice.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
I think when I think about justice, I think
particularly about our museumand how we give justice to the
whole picture and not just thepositives.
Now, when people go to museumsthey particularly some museums
they feel like, oh, they'rebeing judged or that the museum
is making judgments on one groupor the other.
We are just trying to tell thestory.

(41:24):
We're trying to tell theseindividuals' experiences,
particularly for Southern Jews.
When we have people coming fromthe North, we talk about
southern Jews involvement in theConfederacy, an institution of
slavery.
Now, for many people that comehere, they are shocked by that.
They say, oh, how could youshow such things?
That's bad, that makes us lookbad.
Well, that's not the point ofany of that.

(41:45):
We're not trying to make anyonelook good or bad.
We're trying to tell the wholetruth.
I think that's justice.
For me it's showing the entiretruth, whether it be positive or
negative.
In gallery one we have in theback corner of the exhibit on
one panel, we have it talkingabout the lynching of Leo Frank
and that was one of the most, Ithink, outwardly anti-Semitic

(42:08):
events that happened during thattime.
But of course it was not theonly lynching of a southern Jew
but was one of the mostwell-known, but next to it we
have a map of southern Jewishmayors and showing just how many
southern Jews became mayors inthe south, not once, but more
than twice, throughout the south, so right next to each other.
We have two different storiesthat are parallel, one of

(42:29):
acceptance and one ofintolerance, but it shows just
how complex, not only for theJewish experiences but the South
as a whole, how could theseJews that are not Christian come
into a heavily Christiancommunity and thrive.
It just shows that complexityof what it is to be Southern and
what it is to be Southern andJewish, and I think the museum

(42:52):
does it justice because we showall sides of it, the good and
the bad, and I think ourexhibits we give a very unique
opportunity to talk about thecivil rights movement as well,
talking about how, again, jewsare not a monolith.
We have we're independentthinkers, we're on both sides of
anything like any event, andthen showing that southern Jews
were on both sides of anythinglike any event, and then showing

(43:13):
that Southern Jews were on bothsides of the ticket line,
whether it be the departmentstore owners not wanting to
integrate with their lunchcounters or Southern Jewish
rabbis being on the front linesand being arrested and attacked
by the White People's Council.
Jews were on both sides becausewe are everywhere.
We can be on both sides of anyconflict because we're

(43:34):
individuals.
We're not all have the sameidea and I think justice is
showing that we're independentand we can think for ourselves
and make up our own decisions.
And I think our museum showsthat Southern Jews as a whole, I
think, have developed and grown, as the South has grown and

(43:58):
changed.
The idea of social justice andthe ideas of the civil rights
movement have progressed andshown that the idea of justice
has changed as well.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Yeah, and I appreciate your emphasis on this
idea of historical justice andshowing all sides of such a
complex conversation.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Yeah, I think it's really important.
I think it's important thatwe're not pointing the finger or
blaming anyone.
We're not shaming.
It's just showing that there ismore to the story that you may
not know.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
And as we're wrapping up the hour, we're getting
close to it.
Please, if there is anyone whohas questions or comments,
please feel free to jump in.
Yes, howard, go ahead, I have afew actually, michael.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
the first one was what was that term you used for
collecting stuff from thepresent again, oh, rapid
response collecting collectingstuff from the present.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Again, oh, rapid response collecting.
Maybe I'll quickly sorry, I'llquickly jump in there because I
was really interested, um, tohear what you had to say about
that.
I just wanted to say firstly,thank you so much, michael.
It's been totally fascinatingto hear about um, your museum,
and you know it was completelynew to me and, um you know to
hear about the artifacts youhave and the collecting you've
been doing and you know yourrelationships with the donors

(45:17):
and the communities.
It's really fascinating and thethat, that idea that um you
brought up about that, thatrapid response collecting, um,
and it being important for yourmuseum to be showing, you know,
the experience.
As you say, it's not just ahistory, it's how that history
impacts on the current day andyou know current conversations

(45:41):
and understandings ofcommunities and the world.
And I think that that idea ofsort of collecting today's
history, if you like, is alsoimportant in that it helps to
understand and to contextualizea lot of the historical

(46:04):
artifacts and where, where I fitnot, I think, maybe not first
came across, but where this,this notion was discussed quite
a lot recently in uk history wasall around the protests about
um slave trader memorials in theuk.

(46:25):
So you know, several years agoum, about 2020, wasn't it?
And there was a particularincident that always sticks in
my mind, where there was aprotest in the city of Bristol,
in the southwest of the UK,about a statue to a man called

(46:47):
Sir Edward Colston, who was aprolific slave trader in
Victorian England, and as partof that protest, this statue was
just pulled off its plinth andsort of dumped unceremoniously
in the local port, in theharbour, and then there was a
huge discussion about whatshould happen to this statue

(47:07):
within the local community andeventually it was decided that
and it was all.
It was decided that and it wasall.
It was very democratic.
You know everybody's voice washeard and it was decided that it
would be kept as such, but itwould be shown in one of the
local museums, um, on its, onits side, with all of the

(47:27):
graffiti and all of the damagethat was done to it during its
sort of toppling, along with allof the placards and flags and
everything else that wascollected, you know, as part of
and as a result of that protest.
And so, yeah, I think that's areally interesting example of a

(47:51):
lot of those things about kindof content, looking at things
through contemporary eyes, but,um, you know, thinking about how
they sort of tell the fullstory really, um, yeah, so that
was a little a lot for me yeah,I mean I.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
When you said statues , I go back to the confederate
statues that were taken all over, taken down all throughout the
country back in 2020 during theprotests, and I think similarly
to that and understanding howthey could reinterpret that
history, because for a lot ofConfederate statues, they were
built way after the Civil War bythe Daughters of the

(48:29):
Confederacy.
They weren't built, they had apolitical mindset.
They were built to put acertain mindset and put down the
African American community andremind them An idea of the lost
cause mentality, glorifying thesoldier, all of that stuff.
And I think it's important,especially now that we're

(48:49):
thinking about well, instead ofjust how can we reinterpret
these monuments and where can weput them Whether it be a
cemetery or a museum, which Ithink they belong in, and it's a
place that people can interactwith them, discuss and talk
about their history and why andwho put them there.
I think it's an important partof who helped put them there and
why.
I think that's really important.

(49:10):
I think, emily, you bring up areally good point of that rapid
response, collecting and howimpactful it can be to
collecting the moments now andcapturing that now, whether it
be oral histories as well, doingvideo recordings, interviews or
collecting those posters,banners and flags or graffiti
that are written on statues aswell.

(49:32):
So I think it's really importantand I think clearly now in the
Jewish community the rapidresponse collecting looks like
for the protests for theIsrael-Palestine war right now.
I think that's where the rapidresponse collecting really
happens for us particularly, andthe Jewish Museum in DC they

(49:53):
actually had an exhibit on thatback a couple years ago, which
was where I first heard aboutthis rapid response collecting
in the Jewish museum field wasactually at a CAJM conference
held at the museum in DC beforethe shooting, and I think it's
really fascinating that we talkabout that and how we put

(50:14):
ourselves curators or archivistsor museum professionals in
places of active protest orcivil unrest and being there,
and I think it's interesting toput a museum professional in
those places and being well,what do they think what's
important?
What would they take from theseplaces?
I think it would be veryfascinating and I think for the
future generations, it'simportant for us to collect now.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Will the museum be addressing the current war in a
future exhibition, or how do yousee that going?

Speaker 1 (50:46):
I think that's a matter of the artifacts and
material that we have and that'swhat people always say oh, why
don't you do an exhibit on this?
Or why don't you have stuff onthis?
That's a matter of theartifacts and material that we
have and that's what peoplealways say oh, why don't you do
an exhibit on this?
Or why don't you have stuff onthis?
I'm like well, because we don'thave some, we don't have the
physical items.
We can't do an exhibit onsomething if I don't have the
material culture to go alongwith, I just won't do it because
that doesn't do anyone justice.

(51:07):
That's not very fair, I mean.
I think it depends on what wecould gather.
We are currently looking andtrying to collect items, but
it's a little bit harder to donow, after these events have
happened and after some of theseinitial protests have happened.
But I think it would beinteresting for us to gather
that, because I think SouthernJews historically actually have

(51:28):
a very unique viewpoint on thisand we do talk about that at the
museum.
We talk about Zionism, we talkabout the idea of dual loyalty
to the Southern Jews.
So I think that our museumactually puts in a very unique
situation where we could talkabout this in a future exhibit,
if we so choose and if we hadthe items to allow us to tell
that story.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
And thank you, emily, for the comments and also
Howard.
I just want to circle back toyou.
Did you have any more commentsor questions that you wanted to
share?

Speaker 4 (52:00):
we have a couple more do non-jewish schools come to
the museum?

Speaker 1 (52:06):
yes, actually we, we do um, particularly for the
julius rosenwald on brooklyner TWashington, on the African
American schools, we actuallyhad quite a few non-Jewish
schools come, but we try to getanyone.
Anyone who wants to come cancome.
It's just a matter of gettingthe communication and
transportation.
But yeah, no, we try to getanyone who wants to come to the

(52:29):
museum.
All are welcome.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Are you busy enough that there's tours like every
school day or close to everyschool day?

Speaker 1 (52:35):
It depends on the time of year.
So, for example, with Tulanecoming back and students coming,
we're going to have a couplehundred students coming through
our museum during the firstcouple weeks of school.
So we're going to have hundredsof incoming freshmen come to
the museum and do tours.
So it depends on the time ofyear.

(52:56):
The summertime usually we don'thave as many tour groups, but
during the fall and the wintermonth, definitely monthly, not
every week, but definitelymonthly depending on
availability.
We definitely have differentschool groups, also different
church groups, synagogue groupsas well, anyone who wants to
come again.
We have plenty of communitygroups as well.

(53:18):
We always are trying to getdifferent types of people into
the museum.
You do not have to be Jewish,you do not have to be even
interested in Jewish history tocome to the museum, and that's
what I like to tell people.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
It's a museum for everyone and I think everyone
can take something away from it,and I'm also curious about you
being open on Saturday where,like lots of Jewish sort of
themed places are not.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
So I think that's where we have to think of it as
a business still.
So most people, when they go tomuseums, go on the weekends.
That's just a business.
That's tourism.
I will say, though, afterspending some time in Europe
when I was younger, I'm learningabout me being closed on
Tuesdays.
I found that interesting, andnow here we also do that.

(54:00):
Every museum, every businesstoday, off.
So we've decided and it's funnyenough, just like many of the
museums that I travel to inEurope closed on Tuesdays.
It just worked out that way.
That's a day with the leastamount of traffic, but we have
to stay open on the weekends toreally be a business that allows
people to come in when it'savailable to them.

(54:20):
Most people are free on theweekends, so we're also free on
the weekends.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Good.
And then one more Are theShalom Y'all video and the
digitized collections on yourmuseum webpage.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
yet no, not yet, but that actually is a great
question, because we areactually currently working on
updating our website and one ofthe things we are looking at is
how we can add more content toour website.
How can we have more things forthe museum patron to interact
with when they're not at themuseum?
So one of the things that we'relooking at is different ways of

(54:53):
including different items.
So Shalom Y'all is definitely apossibility, because we don't
have that on display anymoreunless you come to our second
floor and then we have itdisplayed on our brick wall, but
that would definitely be agreat idea.
We also do have multiple copiesof the Shalom Y'all book as
well that we could as welldigitize and put on the website.

(55:14):
It's really just a question ofgetting everything on there.
I think you're right.
I want to have patrons be ableto explore our collection.
We're currently working ongetting our museum collection
and archives public, so that's abig push right now at the
Archivist is that you canexplore our collections
virtually.
That's the big thing aboutaccessibility, and that that's

(55:34):
really what I want people to dois access their own collections
or possible, just any collectionwhenever they want to and feel
free to explore all thewonderful items that we have and
truly we have some incredibleitems that I voted to work with
that I want to show the public.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Thank you, sure, yeah , as we're closing up, is there
anything I have not asked youthat you wanted to share,
michael.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
I think just the only thing I would just say is
please come to the museum.
And I mean like the only thingis, I think, come to the museum
with an open mind and be readyto learn possibly something that
you didn't know, and be readyto maybe challenge some that you
didn't know, and be ready tomaybe challenge some
misconceptions that you may havehad before you came to the
museum and then just tell yourfriends I would like the best

(56:22):
way to get the word out aboutour museum is just telling
people about how wonderful yougot this fun museum in New
Orleans.
Take a break from BourbonStreet and you know, cooling off
.
We have great air conditioningas well, so we have great air
conditioning in the summer.
So that's what I always tellpeople you go, cool off.
You know it's not too big.
You know we're waiting for anhour or two.

(56:42):
You'll cool off.
We have great bathrooms.
You can cool off, get out ofthe sun, you know.
So we're up a little bit too.
We're right on the streetcarline it's.
We're actually working on aninteractive streetcar map of
Jewish sites off the streetcarline.
So eventually, something thatwe will be adding on the website
and on an app is, if you takethe St Charles streetcar line,

(57:04):
you will be able to see Jewishsites along the line.
That will pop up on the app oron the website so you can
explore their history.
And then a lot of them aresynagogues, some of them are
businesses and some of them areprivate homes as well.
They were built by Jewisharchitects.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Oh, I love that.
Are there any exhibits comingup that we could have a little
flash news about?

Speaker 1 (57:30):
I think well, I think I gave you guys a little
insight on.
You guys were the y'all werethe first ones that I told about
the new items being put ondisplay downstairs that we're
putting a bunch of new items ondisplay for our merchandise and
our jewish businesses umshowcase, as well as a couple of
new, actually a couple items ofjudaica candlesticksicks from

(57:51):
Russia from the 1860s that werebrought over by a family.
They're held on for fourgenerations that are now going
to be on display, but one of theI mean we still currently have
a wonderful exhibit on theJewish Orthodox House that's
going to be up until January andthen the next exhibit.
I can give you a hint and maybeit definitely will be on
something I actually talkedabout a lot today with you, um,

(58:14):
without giving a full hint at it, but something about the new
americans may actually be thenext thing, but maybe you have
to see and find out.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
I don't want to give away all the secrets, yet there
will be links in the show notesto learn more.
If you are intrigued by thispodcast, it would be much
appreciated if you could leave arating or review and tag

(58:40):
warfare of art and law podcast.
Until next time, this isstephanie drotty bringing you
warfare of art and law.
Thank you so much for listeningand remember injustice anywhere
is a threat to justiceeverywhere.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Curator Michael Jacobs on the Museum of the Southern Jewish Experience