Show Notes:
1:30 background
2:45 shift to add activist element to her art
4:00 response to 7 October 2023 during residency at LMCC
5:30 ‘artivism’
5:45 workshop at Israeli American Council event
6:45 Rosh Hashanah gift for families of hostages
9:00 how her work facilitates justice
12:30 defining justice through recognition and healing
13:20 work as a curator to connect voices
13:50 “Artists on Antisemitism” exhibition
15:00 co-curated with director of Jewish Art Salon
15:40 LA-based artist Marina Heinze included in exhibition
15:45 Joan Roth
17:30 Ronit’s “David” kisses painting included in exhibition
19:40 Chai meaning alive
19:50 use of technology in her work as a bridge for global participation
21:40 heat-activated work that shows happiness levels like mood rings
23:25 Stefania Salles Bruins: connection between art and justice making whole
26:00 work by Marina Heinze in Artists on Antisemitism exhibition
27:10 other exhibitions she has curated
27:50 work in the antisemitism exhibition
28:40 fellowship in Germany in collaboration with German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD) - art's importance in memory and justice
29:00 urgency of keeping the Holocaust alive in the conversation today
29:45 murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska
30:00 to hold and carry memory forward to inspire vigilance and resilence
30:40 artists as witnesses of our time and responsibility to be an activist
32:00 “Wandering Jew” project for 2026 Jerusalem Biennale
34:00 Drawdy’s definition of justice
34:50 Drawdy’s focus on stories to highlight
35:20 Alan Robertshaw’s comments
36:00 art speaking for itself
36:50 “Written in Water” and “Project Forgiveness” - 2018 NY Spring/Break
Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com
Music by Toulme.
To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.
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Thanks so much for listening!
© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:01):
October 7.
I heard people, friends, peerssaying that they're, for
example, afraid to wear, youknow, territory stars.
Me says exactly the opposite.
Just put like three.
So how you can take that andbasically it's about resilience
and make that into joy andhappiness.
(00:23):
And that's exactly what I wantto receive from my heart, from
the identity from everyone.
(01:14):
Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
If you would kind of share a bit about your
background and what brought youinto employing art to speak to
issues around activism.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26):
Yes, hi.
So my name is Reniklim Delgado.
I'm an Israeli uh artist.
Originally, um so I came fromIsrael on a Fulbright to do my
master's, and originally I'mcoming from more painting
background, but then when I camehere to do my thesis, my my
practice shifted towards moremultidisciplinary and
(01:49):
multimedia.
Um, and then I felt especiallyas um, you know, I all my family
is in Israel, and um here when Iwas here and um meeting new
people, new cultures.
Also, I have to say that mybackground is in um multi-uh
cultural.
(02:10):
My mom um was uh immigrated fromMoldova to Israel and my dad
from Paraguay.
Um so a lot of also differentlanguages and coming to America
with all those uh new culturesand new people.
Um very eclectic, very um alsoas a person with ADHD, and by
the way, I wrote uh so I wroteuh some uh notes so I could um
(02:34):
answer um more focusedly.
Um so my you're asking how uh mywork became more activism,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Yeah, like uh you at some point had you I read that
you shifted from uh the art andthen adding the activist element
to it, and if you would kind ofspeak to that and what brought
you to that and and how yourwork has been influenced.
SPEAKER_03 (02:59):
Yeah, so my my project, like I said, when it
shifted into ummultidisciplinary and more
performance installations, we'reinviting um people, participant
to uh engage and to interact.
So um turning private acts uhinto communal rituals and
gillian and joy, um those areboth preservation and
(03:22):
resistance.
It's a way uh to create justicethrough uh uh presence and
tenderness.
And also for me, this is howactivism is to engage with the
people, to have them also shiftin and looking um at different
situations, different umhistory, different memories in a
(03:46):
through a different way throughengagement, and kind of forcing
them joy and happiness.
So for me that kind of uhshifted, but the thing that
you're talking about that youread um came unfortunately after
October 7 when I completely, asof course I'm sure for everybody
(04:10):
else, it's uh it hit really hardas Israeli that all my my family
and and friends, um childhoodfriends are there.
Um I was um an art resident atLMCC, and um I could not
function, I could not work in mystudio.
So all I could uh all I couldthink of is how I can help,
(04:34):
right?
And and the hostages.
So basically, first I became anactivist, then I thought how how
I can merge the the two and howfor me art succeeds in something
that law, for example, sometimesfail, which is art is about
feeling, art is about uhexperience.
(04:57):
So then through performance artand active performances, and
also I was very much active inand in the posters, and I'm
friends with uh the two Israeliartists who um designed the
posters, the poster of thehostages, right, kidnapped.
And then I brought those also asnew materials to my work, both
(05:20):
as installations, both as umsculptures, um, and also as
arts, arts, artivists.
And that's how um I became, orsomebody else actually called me
that uh in the in an article,and then I adopted this uh
title.
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
Recently you mentioned you had done, I
believe it was a workshop at anevent.
Was it the Israeli AmericanCouncil?
SPEAKER_03 (05:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
I don't know uh anything about that workshop,
and I didn't know if it might beappropriate to share some about
that kind of work that you'redoing currently.
SPEAKER_03 (06:01):
Yeah, thank you.
I was very excited to be invitedto um create this art workshop.
Initially, it was they invitedum Avram Infeld, who is um the
founder of Hillel and also umBirthright.
And it was uh um uh uh an eventfor club members only, for their
(06:24):
um board members, and then theywanted to invite an Israeli
artist to create a communal, acollab, and I created a
collaborative project wherebasically I invited everybody
for the upcoming.
We have uh a Rosh Hana, which isthe new new year.
Um, so everybody contributed adesign of pomegranate, um, of
(06:46):
blessing, of wishes, andbasically it was like a big
neural um that they were goingto gift to the families of the
hostages families forum inIsrael.
So that was very moving uh tocreate this gift from everyone
here in New York that we'rethinking about them.
(07:07):
We'll never we we will neverforget.
We trying to do our best,sending our thoughts, prayers.
That's unfortunately all we cando right now.
But through this gesture of artand through this uh mutual
community and creative together,um very happy.
I did not send you images ofthat, but if you want, I will,
(07:30):
because I was very happy to seewhat people uh created, and it
it brought them joy andhappiness, and that's ultimately
what I I wish to achieve with myart.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Absolutely, and yeah, I would love to see them.
And was this the first kind ofworkshop like this you've done,
or have you done other workshopsin the past that you'd want to
share about?
SPEAKER_03 (07:50):
So I am uh so I'm I'm I'm a multidisciplinary
artist, I'm also an arteducator, so I do um sometimes
create artworks.
I do like to tailor it to aspecific theme.
Um, but I feel like uh also insome in uh the exhibitions that
I do.
For example, I had um a soloshow at Grace Exhibition Space,
(08:12):
and then I invited um I lovecollaboration, collaboration is
a big part of my uh of my art tobe the together, like I said,
the experience, to feel, to bein the now.
Um and I created, I rememberthis example, I collaborated
with um this person who createsuh somatic healing rituals and
(08:32):
how uh through uh so just engagedifferent disciplines, different
into the same purpose, which ishealing and bringing joy and
happiness or for people to thinkand to reflect, to look inside,
not just the outside.
So yeah, I think workshops umare very important um for art,
(08:56):
for for engagement, forcommunity, to yeah, to reach
larger, broader community.
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
You'd referenced justice a bit ago, and I wanted
to circle back to that.
Do you have thoughts about howyour work facilitates justice or
addresses injustice?
SPEAKER_03 (09:14):
Uh for me, uh first of all, justice is just it's not
just uh about legal, right?
And not just about punishment orlaws or uh systems, it's
emotional and also culturalrepair.
It's about making the invisible,a bringing uh bridge to bring in
platform for everybody to sharetheir voices, to be seen, to be
(09:38):
heard.
And that's why also uh when Icreate my uh my installations,
my experience, my my uminteractive performances, this
is for me just justice, right?
Um tikunolam, that's alsosomething that we have uh in in
Judaism, repairing the world.
So my work tries to uhcontribute to that repair
(09:59):
through intimacy, throughtenderness, resilience.
Um, and I do think that my workfacilitates um justice by by
making people pause, connect,uh, reflect, engage not just
with my the my work or the work,but also with themselves, with
each other, um, people that theydon't know.
(10:20):
My work uh invites everybody toparticipate, no matter where
they come from.
Um and whether it's uh throughtouching, touching uh a
heat-activated sculptures orthrough the kissing painting
that I do, where the kissactually acts as a trace, as a
symbol for not just for aperson, right?
(10:42):
A voice, where our voice comesfrom, but also it's part of our
physicality and somethingephemeral that you can capture.
Um, but people experiencevulnerability and intimacy.
So in that moment, they seethemselves and other
differently.
Um, so I see that as a small actof justice that resort in um
(11:04):
dignity, empathy, connection,and memory.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Did that perspective, have you always had
that, or was that in the lastfew years as well that that's
come up for you?
SPEAKER_03 (11:14):
I feel like my art always was inspired by empathy
and connections.
This is something that I alwaysstrive for, right?
To have something thatlong-lasting what people will
feel when they see, when in whenthey engage, when they interact
with my um with my art.
Um so I see it as um not justrestored balance, uh, address
(11:39):
pain, um, trauma.
At first it started as personaltrauma, and I believe every
artist, right, they takeinspiration from their first
from their own uh personalexperience, but then um use the
artist as a catalyst to talkabout the broader situation, the
world, right?
Everybody, because we all thehuman experience, we all have
(12:01):
the same, no matter where youcome from, everybody, everybody
cries, everybody um pain, right?
Uh has the same pain.
So I feel that my work startedfrom shifted from
self-expression to talking aboutum the human experience and more
uh larger.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Do you have a particular definition of justice
that you have come to over yourcareer?
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
So uh for me right now it's about recognition of
every individual humanity andcreating spaces where people
feel seen and feel safe andvalued when voices are often
silenced and can be seen andheard.
Um that's why my my my work uhis focused on intimacy and
touch, bringing people together,um, and also um healing, because
(12:50):
healing is a form of justice forme.
So it's like I said, it's notjust about the legal, um, it's
about the visibility,acknowledgement, and healing.
So yeah, uh just happens whenstories are told.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
And I I think you touched earlier on or mentioned
uh or referenced culturalrepair, and I love that.
It's so beautiful.
So thank you for sharing that.
So now uh perhaps we shift toyour work as a curator, and if
you would share a bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
So for me, so first I'm I see myself first as an
artist, but I see being acurator uh also as a form of art
making.
Um I see being a curator asconnector, connecting between
between different, bringingtogether different voices,
people from different cultures,different different countries,
different different ages,different backgrounds, um, to
(13:44):
talk about a specific uh aspecific theme, right?
And the the show is calledArtists on Antisemitism.
It was last year um during thesummer.
Uh it started when I won um afellowship from uh Kojeco and
the UJA, um Artist onAntisemitism.
That was the name of thefellowship uh in a grant, and
(14:06):
then I had to come up with aproject, and basically what I
what I wanted to do after Iexperienced again after October
7, it was it was not it wasreally difficult time to be not
just uh again a Jewish um artistum who was born in Israel, um,
but you know, artist.
(14:28):
Um so I wanted to focus onbringing voices, different
opinion, bringing platform,basically bringing this safe
space as a healing place, right?
For everybody just to listen,just to be there for each other,
just to hear uh each other'sexperience, but also I was very
intrigued in different uh viewsabout anti-Semitism.
(14:52):
So after I won this grant, I wasalso a board member uh of the
Jewish Arts Salon, so Icontacted the director, and then
together we decided, no, Idecided first I wanted to to
create uh an exhibition, butthen um with her, so then it was
um uh I co-created, and then wealso contacted uh the gallery,
(15:13):
81 Leonard Gallery in Tribeca,um to create this uh this
exhibition.
The exhibition was was very uhmeaningful in the way that it
continued to exhibit indifferent uh different around
the world actually.
And when we chose the artist, itwas specifically artists from
different backgrounds, ages, um,countries.
(15:36):
You see, Marina that doesn'tlive in New York, for example,
we had artists from Israel,artists from Europe, artists um
also different ages.
So, for example, one of theartists, John Roth, um, was in
our 80s, um, how exhibited uhphotos in black and white, on
how anti-Semitism in Russia orum um Ukraine, how it started,
(15:59):
the roots, and unfortunately,just to show that you know,
right now, yeah, we don't, Iguess, yeah, um learn from
history, her her story, but umbut that's how the exhibition
formed, and also we wanted toshow um different perspectives
(16:21):
in terms of uh different views,so both serious tone and also
maybe sarcastic, maybe funny,maybe just just to bring because
uh art is telling a story,right?
Instead of reading a book aboutum, I know we all study that in
in in in school and universityabout anti-Semitism, which can
(16:44):
be uh um for some uh uh heavyand and you know not so so
interesting.
This is way more a way that moremuch more uh intriguing and uh
just a visual way for people toengage.
So fortunately we had uh a lotof visitors coming, not just
(17:04):
Jewish, it was open to all.
Also, um the artists weren't allJewish, it's just um uh your
thought, your take onanti-Semitism.
So that's how this uh exhibitionformed.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
Did you have a piece in the exhibition as well?
SPEAKER_03 (17:20):
Yeah, so I had my um my David, uh, which is basically
um a star of David from made allfrom from kisses.
And this is for me exactly theidea of justice, how you can
reclaim um reclaim a symbol thatmaybe connect to something
(17:42):
something heavy, may right nowsomething that is a bit
controversial, I would say.
But what I really love aboutabout Judaism, and I'm not a
religious person at all.
Um I didn't uh bring up um umreligious or or anything.
Um I'm I'm just Israeli, but uhculturally observed.
But what I do love aboutJudaism, and this is something
(18:05):
that I first explored during myresidency um in LMCC, is the
themes of joy and happiness.
Muchachim liotzameh must behappy, something that no matter
how our nation, how many traumasand how many um hardships um and
challenges, no matter what,always have to be happy.
(18:27):
It's a mitzvah, it's a gooddeed, you have to.
Um and yeah, just like anytrauma, you know, you cannot,
everybody has trauma.
Everybody, unfortunately, somehas more, some some less.
Um, collective trauma, personaltrauma, you cannot, you know,
you cannot control that.
But what you can control is umyourself and your perspective.
(18:50):
And instead of being pessimist,I want my art to be optimist.
I want to to bring light.
I know it sounds cheesy, but youknow what?
If I can, and this is this isthe best compliment I I get uh
uh when people experience myart, that it makes them happy,
(19:11):
it can it gives them hope, itgives them joy.
And yeah, I don't see it asnaive, I see it as um as as
strong, as something strong thatdespite, and this is actually
justice for joy, that despiteeverything, no, we're gonna be
happy, uh we're gonna be happy,we're going to be strong.
(19:32):
And the following artwork that Idid after David, the star of
David is high.
High in Hebrew means um alive.
So no matter what, we are aliveor a kicking, everybody should
should feel feel alive, lively.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Thank you for sharing that.
It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_03 (19:47):
Uh, one of your questions was also about
technology, right?
And how I can also invite uhtechnology in my art.
So um some of my works I I see Isee technology, not about it,
it's not about screens, but it'sabout extending human touch.
And basically, I invitetechnologies um as a medium and
(20:10):
as a bridge.
For example, I had uh one of myuh projects, I asked people to
send uh photos of their kisses,so then I can use that um in my
in my work and transform thatinto live digital uh painting
that projected.
So uh technology uh allows toexpand uh intimacy and
(20:30):
collaboration across uhdistance, uh creating global
participation.
Because, like I said, for meit's it's global right now.
It doesn't matter your religion.
Yes, I'm happening to be Jewish,and this right now it's very
controversial apparently.
Um but um I just I don't want tosee, I see people as people.
(20:51):
And for me, art is aboutinsisting on hope, uh, even when
the world feels unfortunately uhfractured.
Um, every every work that I do,whether it's uh participating,
whether it's leaving a kiss on acanvas or a brush stroke or
touch.
I also bring um the heatactivated, uh for example in
serotin and feel yourself wherepeople touch.
(21:15):
Um it also involves leather andand digital and technology,
which I cannot um I cannot sharemy secret, but basically when
you touch it, it shows you, itgives you a gauge on your
happiness levels.
And then I also have a levelkey, kind of like uh you know,
when uh there was the um yeah, Isee that Stephanie nodding.
(21:38):
I forgot what its name, youknow.
The wood ring.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So I love that.
I was fascinated by that.
Um as a kid, it didn't come tous uh when I came here um to the
US, and for me it was a magic,and I love those magical
moments, and I want to bringthat uh also to to my art, but
(21:59):
also to kind of make uh to makemy my viewers think
introspective with themselves,hopefully think of of ways to um
hire their um joy, happiness.
Um but every performance is areminder of intimacy, care, and
(22:19):
imagination that can be act ofuh resistance and renewal.
Um my my um at the heart of mywork is that every simple belief
that even at the time ofchallenges art can heal, our art
should be there to connect,remind us that of our shared
(22:39):
humanity, shared experience.
We all experience the same, weall hope for the same, hopefully
for you know peace and everybodyto be uh loved and spread light.
And yeah, and don't be afraid toconnect with yourself, with your
others, with your neighborneighbors.
Don't be afraid if they'recoming from different uh you
(23:01):
know, religion, race, um,country, accent, um, yeah, with
yourself and with the world.
So that's uh I hope that my artinspires uh to for people to be
more open and happy.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
And uh a reminder, anyone who has questions,
comments, thoughts, please feelfree to jump in.
Stefania.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Yeah, hi, hi Rani.
Uh it's really nice to meet youand I get to know your work and
it's very inspiring.
I I don't know if you intendedit, this connection between
justice and art, but if Iunderstood you correctly and
like how you described art, anddo you see the art you make to
be healing and to make peoplehappier?
(23:44):
Yeah, it sounds simple, but it'sactually really complex.
And how you describe justice aslike making whole, if I'm
quoting you correctly, which Ireally love that sort of complex
definition of justice.
And to me, it looks like art andjustice to you both kind of
accomplish the same thing.
And I was wondering if Iunderstood that correctly and if
you could speak more about thatbecause it's such a beautiful
(24:07):
thought.
SPEAKER_03 (24:09):
Thank you so much.
Um yes, you did uh you did quoteme, quote me well.
Um you know, justice was um atfirst about fairness, but then
but then my this this notion hasevolved, right?
Because there is no such thingas as apparently as fairness.
(24:30):
Everybody comes from fromdifferent perspectives, and
everybody um has their thoughts,and and right now justice, you
know.
I mean, I don't need to eventell you about that right now.
I really don't want to um uhtalk politics, what what what
you think justice is, right?
Because my work ultimately isabout being human beings, you
(24:52):
humanity.
And that's why even when I didthe works after October 7 about
the hostages, I kept I keptsaying it's not about the
government, it's not about it'sjust simply about human beings,
about people.
And healing that hate also, youknow, yes, the pain of us, of
our nation.
We just want, and that was uhsomething so beautiful that
(25:14):
everybody come together as aprayer, as a prayer-sending um
blessing and and wishes for forfor everybody to come back safe.
And and yes, none of um uminnocent lives should be should
be killed no matter where you'refrom.
Again, no nobody's life is is isis is more, right?
Um, everybody, we all um we allhave mom and dad, right?
(25:37):
We all have or or dad and dadand mom and dad.
You know what I mean?
We all have parents.
And um so yeah, my my justicefor me became about healing, um,
and like you said, um makingwhole what is broken.
SPEAKER_02 (25:53):
So really beautiful.
I love how you have thoughtthrough all of this and how you
describe it like this.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Reneet, going back to the anti-Semitism exhibition
that you curated last year,could you describe the the piece
that you included, I believe, byMarina Heinze?
SPEAKER_03 (26:13):
It was um, I don't want to butcher the title
because it was uh a year ago,uh, but basically it was um the
Kanya, she she took the um shoesof of Kanya West, right?
And she used that as um um likeI said, we we took some serious
versus versus com not comical,but but you know, look and I
(26:33):
feel like our uh humor is isvery important talking about um
serious um you know thoughts.
Um yeah, and sarcastic.
I'm thinking Seinfeld now.
But um, so yeah, so she made uha portrait um of Kanye West uh
from um the shoes and but but itdidn't look like Kanye West.
(26:58):
You had to, it looked like bothKanye West and um you had to to
come to come closer because youknow she used materials in a
very beautiful, unique way, andit's very large installation.
I also wanted to talk aboutfuture uh about futures.
So that was uh one one project,but now I would want to continue
um to um to also curate.
(27:20):
It was not the first uh uhcuratorial work that I did.
I curated before.
Um that was the first time thatI added my work, just because
all the other curators alsoadded their own work, but I
didn't curate it.
My I didn't use the work.
I was actually, it was onanonymous, so uh to be fair,
right?
Talking about justice.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Any other points about that exhibition you wanted
to share?
SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
Yeah, we had uh from so my work was there to to bring
joy and to to to br to to youknow uplift the mood and and uh
this, but there were also worksthat that were sad, right?
That were talking, yes, uh,about the about this painful or
about of course the Holocaust umsome were there too, the
(28:08):
references.
One I remember painting um wasuh I think from from from from
the Holocaust Museum in Germany.
Um you spoke, uh you I rememberby the way, you asked me also
about uh the Holocaust um umconnection and the same
(28:28):
fellowship.
So so the Kojeko also, I I umafter after I won this, uh I got
this uh this fellowship.
Also, I did um a fellowship inGermany itself um where it was
about anti-Semitism.
So basically it was incollaboration with DAD, D A A D.
And we went to Berlin, we saw umwe had this strip of learning
(28:52):
about not just about thehistory, but basically about the
current um Jewish life inGermany.
And um, you know what I rememberthe most was was the art, the
monuments, the museum.
Um just to show you how art isuh important in memory and
justice, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
Yes, yes.
And what would you say about therelevance and the urgency of
keeping the Holocaust alive inthe conversation today?
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
I mean, unfortunately, it feels urgent
than ever right now, um, withthe rise of anti-Semitism and
other um haters in the worldworldwide, when people just uh
murdering people um just becausejust because they can, but my
heart broke about the the uhUkrainian uh refugee um who just
(29:48):
you know just just got murdered,or when people just get murdered
from thinking differently,right?
For different uh thoughts.
Um but the Holocaust is aconstant remember.
For what happens whendehumanization goes unchecked.
And through art, I am to carrythe memory forward, not just as
(30:12):
a trauma, passive, but alsomoving forward.
And that the responsibility thatholds to hold memory in a way
that inspires vigilance and alsoresilience.
So yeah, the alcus is not just aJewish memory, but a humanity
conscience.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
What would you think then about describing artists as
witnesses of our time?
SPEAKER_03 (30:39):
Yeah, our artists are not, artists have uh uh such
an important role because it'snot just witnesses, but our
responsibility is to act to actupon it and and like I said, and
think of creative ways to notjust to to um to preserve it,
but also to uh act to be anactivist and and have that as a
(31:02):
tool, as a catalyst for action,um, through art and for people
not just to remember but to alsoto feel, to engage.
Um yeah, so that's why also Ishifted my work from 2D to more
to more immersive, to moredifferent disciplines.
So for me, my my medium, theprocess, is um determined by the
(31:24):
the theme, by what I explore,but what I want to say.
And yeah, that's why I don't seemyself just you know as a
painter, even though I startedas a as a painter.
Um I came here and I was the artassistant um of artist uh Mir
Hod when I uh concluded myFulbright.
Um but then like I said, uh lifeevents and yeah, shifted my uh
(31:49):
my art.
unknown (31:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Well, thank you so much.
Is there are there other pointsthat I have not asked you about
that you want to touch on?
SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
Yeah, I just wanted to to mention my upcoming um
shows or project that I'mworking on.
So right now I'm I'm developingum new project from the 2026 uh
Jerusalem Biennale that um um mycurator, the same curator that
we went uh two years ago uh tobe uh to the Biennale, and I
sent you a few photos uh fromthat work.
(32:21):
Um so woohoo, that's uh uh rightnow my my big my big news
because it's uh I'm very veryexcited uh to be part of it.
And um my my work is my new workthat I'm developing.
It's it's called um WanderingJew, and it's about, and I will
include also the the plant uhwandering you and um continue to
(32:44):
live in intimacy and justicefrom from New York to Jerusalem
because it's in Jerusalem.
But um it's about a collectiveact of healing and renewal um in
the performance that um alsowill be open to the uh
participant.
Um with the participant uh fromum they will help me to uh a
(33:08):
durational performance embodyingresilience through elemental uh
movement, breathe, and healing.
And I'm going to quote uh fromum I believe Kabbalah from the
wound, light flows, healing,resilience, renewal.
So that's something that's um mynext project.
SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
I'm excited to see how you incorporate the plant
into wondering Jew or kiss thewound.
SPEAKER_03 (33:31):
I'm thinking I'm still thinking of it, but it's
all going to come together.
Um and yeah, and to talk alsoabout this.
Um I did have um a question foryou, uh Stephanie.
I don't know if uh I'm justcurious.
Uh I know you asked in your umthe the guests what their
definition of justice.
Um I'm curious to hear yourdefinition and if had if it did
(33:55):
involve or changed.
SPEAKER_01 (33:57):
Early on, when I started asking individuals their
thoughts, one guest haddescribed it as public love, and
I just loved that, especially inlaw school.
I think there was thispreoccupation with the legal
aspect of it.
But after, thankfully, lawschool, I started to broaden my
(34:19):
approach to it, and now itreally is this fascination for
me to look at every angle ofjustice.
Historical really resonates withme, like bringing alive legacies
of individuals, especiallyStefania knows this, the
legacies of female artists ofour past who have been
underappreciated and and almostobliterated from history.
(34:42):
So giving them a voice andgiving a voice to anyone who has
been marginalized.
SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
I love that.
It's also similar to what I saidabout so what what draws you to
the stories that you choose?
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
What's what's what makes you decide what's
interests you what which topicsare uh when I find an individual
that really uh their work speaksto me if they're an artist, or I
just love their message, or it'sa message that I feel like
hasn't been highlighted enough.
(35:16):
I want to highlight it.
Oh, and Alan?
SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
I I just love this because I have no artistic
talent whatsoever, so I justlike seeing other people's work,
but I also because I I like youknow, because art there's that
stuff where you just likeappreciate it just on an instant
level.
It's like great, but then it'salso brilliant when you get to
hear from the people who createdthe art, it just gives it a
whole new perspective, and it'snice to sort of then revisit it.
(35:42):
I mean, I must confess, I alwayslike to come to art blind at
first.
You know, it's I don't want tohear anything about who did it,
why they did it, what it'ssupposed to mean.
It's like, what does it mean tome?
And then it's really nice whenyou hear somebody afterwards
sort of going, Well, this iswhat it is, because sometimes
you go, Oh, yeah, that makessense.
And other times you go, Oh, I'venever even thought of that.
But now I can see it.
(36:03):
So, but that's why I love theselittle sessions.
SPEAKER_03 (36:05):
And Alan, I just want to uh echo what you said.
I love what you said about aboutart being um to just speak for
itself before you know all thebackground and everything.
Um, that's exactly also uh interms of justice.
I want to give everybody thereview, no matter who who did
that, right?
First look at the art, give it achance, um, and then the the
extra information just givesanother uh layer.
(36:29):
It's um just another um point ofview.
But but another uh complimentthat that that I owe another
feedback that I love receivingis that the art is not just
visually aesthetically pleasing,but then you also have this uh
conceptual layer that makespeople think.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
So Renee, I believe you were also in a New York
spring break show.
Would you want to share a bitabout that work?
SPEAKER_03 (36:52):
And this work was was um Project Forgiveness.
I started I I showed um writtenon water.
Um, and it was when back when Iit was in 2018, I want to say.
So yeah, it's been it's been awhile.
And it was before my shiftinginto activist and and artivist,
and it was more when I focusedon my um on my own trauma and my
(37:14):
own healing, and you know, kindof want to share uh um so so my
dad was for from Paraguay, and Ihave uh he left me and my twin
brother when we were seven, so Ihaven't seen seen him, and he
was a famous musician.
Um, and um basically I I I I wona grant, and then I went to to
(37:34):
um with a photographer to be myum doc the to do the
documentary, and I went therefor the first time, meeting um
for the first time all of hisfamily, my my half sibling, my
my my uh my sister, my brother,my aunts, my everybody.
Um so basically I did um aperformance there when I was
(37:56):
there, I performed to his song,um Besame mucho.
Um but he unfortunately passedaway when I was here.
So um my exhibition there, it'scalled Project Forgiveness, and
basically I forgive myself.
Um because um one day when umwhen he did when when my my
(38:16):
parents divorced and he wentthere, he did he wanted for me
and my my brother to come visit,and I was so mad and I was so
angry, you know, as a kid thathe left and left raising without
a dad.
Um but then only when when yougrow up who realized to look at
parents as people, right?
Just people, everybody is peopleno matter what.
(38:37):
Um and I did have an opportunityto go and visit and he was
waiting for me, but I got thisthe same the same summer, I also
got the notification that I Igot the second or third uh round
of the Fulbright.
And as you know, Fulbright is uhis you know very prestigious and
uh um a great uh opportunity.
So I did not go to Paraguay.
(38:59):
I was supposed to go BurningMan, then Paraguay, but uh I
didn't.
But little did I know that hewas dying.
He didn't tell me.
So I missed this opportunity andthis um show, this exhibition
that I did, Project Forgivenessand then Britain and Water was
my gift for him, get my gift formyself, forgiving myself,
(39:19):
talking about forgiveness.
And again, healing and amusingartists.
October 7.
I heard people, friends, peerssaying that they're, for
example, afraid to wear, youknow, territory stars.
Me says exactly the opposite.
Just put like three.
So how you can take that andbasically it's about resilience
and make that into joy andhappiness.
(00:23):
And that's exactly what I wantto receive from my heart, from
the identity from everyone.
(01:14):
Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
If you would kind of share a bit about your
background and what brought youinto employing art to speak to
issues around activism.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26):
Yes, hi.
So my name is Reniklim Delgado.
I'm an Israeli uh artist.
Originally, um so I came fromIsrael on a Fulbright to do my
master's, and originally I'mcoming from more painting
background, but then when I camehere to do my thesis, my my
practice shifted towards moremultidisciplinary and
(01:49):
multimedia.
Um, and then I felt especiallyas um, you know, I all my family
is in Israel, and um here when Iwas here and um meeting new
people, new cultures.
Also, I have to say that mybackground is in um multi-uh
cultural.
(02:10):
My mom um was uh immigrated fromMoldova to Israel and my dad
from Paraguay.
Um so a lot of also differentlanguages and coming to America
with all those uh new culturesand new people.
Um very eclectic, very um alsoas a person with ADHD, and by
the way, I wrote uh so I wroteuh some uh notes so I could um
(02:34):
answer um more focusedly.
Um so my you're asking how uh mywork became more activism,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (02:44):
Yeah, like uh you at some point had you I read that
you shifted from uh the art andthen adding the activist element
to it, and if you would kind ofspeak to that and what brought
you to that and and how yourwork has been influenced.
SPEAKER_03 (02:59):
Yeah, so my my project, like I said, when it
shifted into ummultidisciplinary and more
performance installations, we'reinviting um people, participant
to uh engage and to interact.
So um turning private acts uhinto communal rituals and
gillian and joy, um those areboth preservation and
(03:22):
resistance.
It's a way uh to create justicethrough uh uh presence and
tenderness.
And also for me, this is howactivism is to engage with the
people, to have them also shiftin and looking um at different
situations, different umhistory, different memories in a
(03:46):
through a different way throughengagement, and kind of forcing
them joy and happiness.
So for me that kind of uhshifted, but the thing that
you're talking about that youread um came unfortunately after
October 7 when I completely, asof course I'm sure for everybody
(04:10):
else, it's uh it hit really hardas Israeli that all my my family
and and friends, um childhoodfriends are there.
Um I was um an art resident atLMCC, and um I could not
function, I could not work in mystudio.
So all I could uh all I couldthink of is how I can help,
(04:34):
right?
And and the hostages.
So basically, first I became anactivist, then I thought how how
I can merge the the two and howfor me art succeeds in something
that law, for example, sometimesfail, which is art is about
feeling, art is about uhexperience.
(04:57):
So then through performance artand active performances, and
also I was very much active inand in the posters, and I'm
friends with uh the two Israeliartists who um designed the
posters, the poster of thehostages, right, kidnapped.
And then I brought those also asnew materials to my work, both
(05:20):
as installations, both as umsculptures, um, and also as
arts, arts, artivists.
And that's how um I became, orsomebody else actually called me
that uh in the in an article,and then I adopted this uh
title.
SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
Recently you mentioned you had done, I
believe it was a workshop at anevent.
Was it the Israeli AmericanCouncil?
SPEAKER_03 (05:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
I don't know uh anything about that workshop,
and I didn't know if it might beappropriate to share some about
that kind of work that you'redoing currently.
SPEAKER_03 (06:01):
Yeah, thank you.
I was very excited to be invitedto um create this art workshop.
Initially, it was they invitedum Avram Infeld, who is um the
founder of Hillel and also umBirthright.
And it was uh um uh uh an eventfor club members only, for their
(06:24):
um board members, and then theywanted to invite an Israeli
artist to create a communal, acollab, and I created a
collaborative project wherebasically I invited everybody
for the upcoming.
We have uh a Rosh Hana, which isthe new new year.
Um, so everybody contributed adesign of pomegranate, um, of
(06:46):
blessing, of wishes, andbasically it was like a big
neural um that they were goingto gift to the families of the
hostages families forum inIsrael.
So that was very moving uh tocreate this gift from everyone
here in New York that we'rethinking about them.
(07:07):
We'll never we we will neverforget.
We trying to do our best,sending our thoughts, prayers.
That's unfortunately all we cando right now.
But through this gesture of artand through this uh mutual
community and creative together,um very happy.
I did not send you images ofthat, but if you want, I will,
(07:30):
because I was very happy to seewhat people uh created, and it
it brought them joy andhappiness, and that's ultimately
what I I wish to achieve with myart.
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
Absolutely, and yeah, I would love to see them.
And was this the first kind ofworkshop like this you've done,
or have you done other workshopsin the past that you'd want to
share about?
SPEAKER_03 (07:50):
So I am uh so I'm I'm I'm a multidisciplinary
artist, I'm also an arteducator, so I do um sometimes
create artworks.
I do like to tailor it to aspecific theme.
Um, but I feel like uh also insome in uh the exhibitions that
I do.
For example, I had um a soloshow at Grace Exhibition Space,
(08:12):
and then I invited um I lovecollaboration, collaboration is
a big part of my uh of my art tobe the together, like I said,
the experience, to feel, to bein the now.
Um and I created, I rememberthis example, I collaborated
with um this person who createsuh somatic healing rituals and
(08:32):
how uh through uh so just engagedifferent disciplines, different
into the same purpose, which ishealing and bringing joy and
happiness or for people to thinkand to reflect, to look inside,
not just the outside.
So yeah, I think workshops umare very important um for art,
(08:56):
for for engagement, forcommunity, to yeah, to reach
larger, broader community.
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
You'd referenced justice a bit ago, and I wanted
to circle back to that.
Do you have thoughts about howyour work facilitates justice or
addresses injustice?
SPEAKER_03 (09:14):
Uh for me, uh first of all, justice is just it's not
just uh about legal, right?
And not just about punishment orlaws or uh systems, it's
emotional and also culturalrepair.
It's about making the invisible,a bringing uh bridge to bring in
platform for everybody to sharetheir voices, to be seen, to be
(09:38):
heard.
And that's why also uh when Icreate my uh my installations,
my experience, my my uminteractive performances, this
is for me just justice, right?
Um tikunolam, that's alsosomething that we have uh in in
Judaism, repairing the world.
So my work tries to uhcontribute to that repair
(09:59):
through intimacy, throughtenderness, resilience.
Um, and I do think that my workfacilitates um justice by by
making people pause, connect,uh, reflect, engage not just
with my the my work or the work,but also with themselves, with
each other, um, people that theydon't know.
(10:20):
My work uh invites everybody toparticipate, no matter where
they come from.
Um and whether it's uh throughtouching, touching uh a
heat-activated sculptures orthrough the kissing painting
that I do, where the kissactually acts as a trace, as a
symbol for not just for aperson, right?
(10:42):
A voice, where our voice comesfrom, but also it's part of our
physicality and somethingephemeral that you can capture.
Um, but people experiencevulnerability and intimacy.
So in that moment, they seethemselves and other
differently.
Um, so I see that as a small actof justice that resort in um
(11:04):
dignity, empathy, connection,and memory.
SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
Did that perspective, have you always had
that, or was that in the lastfew years as well that that's
come up for you?
SPEAKER_03 (11:14):
I feel like my art always was inspired by empathy
and connections.
This is something that I alwaysstrive for, right?
To have something thatlong-lasting what people will
feel when they see, when in whenthey engage, when they interact
with my um with my art.
Um so I see it as um not justrestored balance, uh, address
(11:39):
pain, um, trauma.
At first it started as personaltrauma, and I believe every
artist, right, they takeinspiration from their first
from their own uh personalexperience, but then um use the
artist as a catalyst to talkabout the broader situation, the
world, right?
Everybody, because we all thehuman experience, we all have
(12:01):
the same, no matter where youcome from, everybody, everybody
cries, everybody um pain, right?
Uh has the same pain.
So I feel that my work startedfrom shifted from
self-expression to talking aboutum the human experience and more
uh larger.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Do you have a particular definition of justice
that you have come to over yourcareer?
SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
So uh for me right now it's about recognition of
every individual humanity andcreating spaces where people
feel seen and feel safe andvalued when voices are often
silenced and can be seen andheard.
Um that's why my my my work uhis focused on intimacy and
touch, bringing people together,um, and also um healing, because
(12:50):
healing is a form of justice forme.
So it's like I said, it's notjust about the legal, um, it's
about the visibility,acknowledgement, and healing.
So yeah, uh just happens whenstories are told.
SPEAKER_01 (13:03):
And I I think you touched earlier on or mentioned
uh or referenced culturalrepair, and I love that.
It's so beautiful.
So thank you for sharing that.
So now uh perhaps we shift toyour work as a curator, and if
you would share a bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_03 (13:21):
So for me, so first I'm I see myself first as an
artist, but I see being acurator uh also as a form of art
making.
Um I see being a curator asconnector, connecting between
between different, bringingtogether different voices,
people from different cultures,different different countries,
different different ages,different backgrounds, um, to
(13:44):
talk about a specific uh aspecific theme, right?
And the the show is calledArtists on Antisemitism.
It was last year um during thesummer.
Uh it started when I won um afellowship from uh Kojeco and
the UJA, um Artist onAntisemitism.
That was the name of thefellowship uh in a grant, and
(14:06):
then I had to come up with aproject, and basically what I
what I wanted to do after Iexperienced again after October
7, it was it was not it wasreally difficult time to be not
just uh again a Jewish um artistum who was born in Israel, um,
but you know, artist.
(14:28):
Um so I wanted to focus onbringing voices, different
opinion, bringing platform,basically bringing this safe
space as a healing place, right?
For everybody just to listen,just to be there for each other,
just to hear uh each other'sexperience, but also I was very
intrigued in different uh viewsabout anti-Semitism.
(14:52):
So after I won this grant, I wasalso a board member uh of the
Jewish Arts Salon, so Icontacted the director, and then
together we decided, no, Idecided first I wanted to to
create uh an exhibition, butthen um with her, so then it was
um uh I co-created, and then wealso contacted uh the gallery,
(15:13):
81 Leonard Gallery in Tribeca,um to create this uh this
exhibition.
The exhibition was was very uhmeaningful in the way that it
continued to exhibit indifferent uh different around
the world actually.
And when we chose the artist, itwas specifically artists from
different backgrounds, ages, um,countries.
(15:36):
You see, Marina that doesn'tlive in New York, for example,
we had artists from Israel,artists from Europe, artists um
also different ages.
So, for example, one of theartists, John Roth, um, was in
our 80s, um, how exhibited uhphotos in black and white, on
how anti-Semitism in Russia orum um Ukraine, how it started,
(15:59):
the roots, and unfortunately,just to show that you know,
right now, yeah, we don't, Iguess, yeah, um learn from
history, her her story, but umbut that's how the exhibition
formed, and also we wanted toshow um different perspectives
(16:21):
in terms of uh different views,so both serious tone and also
maybe sarcastic, maybe funny,maybe just just to bring because
uh art is telling a story,right?
Instead of reading a book aboutum, I know we all study that in
in in in school and universityabout anti-Semitism, which can
(16:44):
be uh um for some uh uh heavyand and you know not so so
interesting.
This is way more a way that moremuch more uh intriguing and uh
just a visual way for people toengage.
So fortunately we had uh a lotof visitors coming, not just
(17:04):
Jewish, it was open to all.
Also, um the artists weren't allJewish, it's just um uh your
thought, your take onanti-Semitism.
So that's how this uh exhibitionformed.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
Did you have a piece in the exhibition as well?
SPEAKER_03 (17:20):
Yeah, so I had my um my David, uh, which is basically
um a star of David from made allfrom from kisses.
And this is for me exactly theidea of justice, how you can
reclaim um reclaim a symbol thatmaybe connect to something
(17:42):
something heavy, may right nowsomething that is a bit
controversial, I would say.
But what I really love aboutabout Judaism, and I'm not a
religious person at all.
Um I didn't uh bring up um umreligious or or anything.
Um I'm I'm just Israeli, but uhculturally observed.
But what I do love aboutJudaism, and this is something
(18:05):
that I first explored during myresidency um in LMCC, is the
themes of joy and happiness.
Muchachim liotzameh must behappy, something that no matter
how our nation, how many traumasand how many um hardships um and
challenges, no matter what,always have to be happy.
(18:27):
It's a mitzvah, it's a gooddeed, you have to.
Um and yeah, just like anytrauma, you know, you cannot,
everybody has trauma.
Everybody, unfortunately, somehas more, some some less.
Um, collective trauma, personaltrauma, you cannot, you know,
you cannot control that.
But what you can control is umyourself and your perspective.
(18:50):
And instead of being pessimist,I want my art to be optimist.
I want to to bring light.
I know it sounds cheesy, but youknow what?
If I can, and this is this isthe best compliment I I get uh
uh when people experience myart, that it makes them happy,
(19:11):
it can it gives them hope, itgives them joy.
And yeah, I don't see it asnaive, I see it as um as as
strong, as something strong thatdespite, and this is actually
justice for joy, that despiteeverything, no, we're gonna be
happy, uh we're gonna be happy,we're going to be strong.
(19:32):
And the following artwork that Idid after David, the star of
David is high.
High in Hebrew means um alive.
So no matter what, we are aliveor a kicking, everybody should
should feel feel alive, lively.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Thank you for sharing that.
It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_03 (19:47):
Uh, one of your questions was also about
technology, right?
And how I can also invite uhtechnology in my art.
So um some of my works I I see Isee technology, not about it,
it's not about screens, but it'sabout extending human touch.
And basically, I invitetechnologies um as a medium and
(20:10):
as a bridge.
For example, I had uh one of myuh projects, I asked people to
send uh photos of their kisses,so then I can use that um in my
in my work and transform thatinto live digital uh painting
that projected.
So uh technology uh allows toexpand uh intimacy and
(20:30):
collaboration across uhdistance, uh creating global
participation.
Because, like I said, for meit's it's global right now.
It doesn't matter your religion.
Yes, I'm happening to be Jewish,and this right now it's very
controversial apparently.
Um but um I just I don't want tosee, I see people as people.
(20:51):
And for me, art is aboutinsisting on hope, uh, even when
the world feels unfortunately uhfractured.
Um, every every work that I do,whether it's uh participating,
whether it's leaving a kiss on acanvas or a brush stroke or
touch.
I also bring um the heatactivated, uh for example in
serotin and feel yourself wherepeople touch.
(21:15):
Um it also involves leather andand digital and technology,
which I cannot um I cannot sharemy secret, but basically when
you touch it, it shows you, itgives you a gauge on your
happiness levels.
And then I also have a levelkey, kind of like uh you know,
when uh there was the um yeah, Isee that Stephanie nodding.
(21:38):
I forgot what its name, youknow.
The wood ring.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So I love that.
I was fascinated by that.
Um as a kid, it didn't come tous uh when I came here um to the
US, and for me it was a magic,and I love those magical
moments, and I want to bringthat uh also to to my art, but
(21:59):
also to kind of make uh to makemy my viewers think
introspective with themselves,hopefully think of of ways to um
hire their um joy, happiness.
Um but every performance is areminder of intimacy, care, and
(22:19):
imagination that can be act ofuh resistance and renewal.
Um my my um at the heart of mywork is that every simple belief
that even at the time ofchallenges art can heal, our art
should be there to connect,remind us that of our shared
(22:39):
humanity, shared experience.
We all experience the same, weall hope for the same, hopefully
for you know peace and everybodyto be uh loved and spread light.
And yeah, and don't be afraid toconnect with yourself, with your
others, with your neighborneighbors.
Don't be afraid if they'recoming from different uh you
(23:01):
know, religion, race, um,country, accent, um, yeah, with
yourself and with the world.
So that's uh I hope that my artinspires uh to for people to be
more open and happy.
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
And uh a reminder, anyone who has questions,
comments, thoughts, please feelfree to jump in.
Stefania.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Yeah, hi, hi Rani.
Uh it's really nice to meet youand I get to know your work and
it's very inspiring.
I I don't know if you intendedit, this connection between
justice and art, but if Iunderstood you correctly and
like how you described art, anddo you see the art you make to
be healing and to make peoplehappier?
(23:44):
Yeah, it sounds simple, but it'sactually really complex.
And how you describe justice aslike making whole, if I'm
quoting you correctly, which Ireally love that sort of complex
definition of justice.
And to me, it looks like art andjustice to you both kind of
accomplish the same thing.
And I was wondering if Iunderstood that correctly and if
you could speak more about thatbecause it's such a beautiful
(24:07):
thought.
SPEAKER_03 (24:09):
Thank you so much.
Um yes, you did uh you did quoteme, quote me well.
Um you know, justice was um atfirst about fairness, but then
but then my this this notion hasevolved, right?
Because there is no such thingas as apparently as fairness.
(24:30):
Everybody comes from fromdifferent perspectives, and
everybody um has their thoughts,and and right now justice, you
know.
I mean, I don't need to eventell you about that right now.
I really don't want to um uhtalk politics, what what what
you think justice is, right?
Because my work ultimately isabout being human beings, you
(24:52):
humanity.
And that's why even when I didthe works after October 7 about
the hostages, I kept I keptsaying it's not about the
government, it's not about it'sjust simply about human beings,
about people.
And healing that hate also, youknow, yes, the pain of us, of
our nation.
We just want, and that was uhsomething so beautiful that
(25:14):
everybody come together as aprayer, as a prayer-sending um
blessing and and wishes for forfor everybody to come back safe.
And and yes, none of um uminnocent lives should be should
be killed no matter where you'refrom.
Again, no nobody's life is is isis is more, right?
Um, everybody, we all um we allhave mom and dad, right?
(25:37):
We all have or or dad and dadand mom and dad.
You know what I mean?
We all have parents.
And um so yeah, my my justicefor me became about healing, um,
and like you said, um makingwhole what is broken.
SPEAKER_02 (25:53):
So really beautiful.
I love how you have thoughtthrough all of this and how you
describe it like this.
SPEAKER_03 (26:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (26:01):
Reneet, going back to the anti-Semitism exhibition
that you curated last year,could you describe the the piece
that you included, I believe, byMarina Heinze?
SPEAKER_03 (26:13):
It was um, I don't want to butcher the title
because it was uh a year ago,uh, but basically it was um the
Kanya, she she took the um shoesof of Kanya West, right?
And she used that as um um likeI said, we we took some serious
versus versus com not comical,but but you know, look and I
(26:33):
feel like our uh humor is isvery important talking about um
serious um you know thoughts.
Um yeah, and sarcastic.
I'm thinking Seinfeld now.
But um, so yeah, so she made uha portrait um of Kanye West uh
from um the shoes and but but itdidn't look like Kanye West.
(26:58):
You had to, it looked like bothKanye West and um you had to to
come to come closer because youknow she used materials in a
very beautiful, unique way, andit's very large installation.
I also wanted to talk aboutfuture uh about futures.
So that was uh one one project,but now I would want to continue
um to um to also curate.
(27:20):
It was not the first uh uhcuratorial work that I did.
I curated before.
Um that was the first time thatI added my work, just because
all the other curators alsoadded their own work, but I
didn't curate it.
My I didn't use the work.
I was actually, it was onanonymous, so uh to be fair,
right?
Talking about justice.
SPEAKER_01 (27:40):
Any other points about that exhibition you wanted
to share?
SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
Yeah, we had uh from so my work was there to to bring
joy and to to to br to to youknow uplift the mood and and uh
this, but there were also worksthat that were sad, right?
That were talking, yes, uh,about the about this painful or
about of course the Holocaust umsome were there too, the
(28:08):
references.
One I remember painting um wasuh I think from from from from
the Holocaust Museum in Germany.
Um you spoke, uh you I rememberby the way, you asked me also
about uh the Holocaust um umconnection and the same
(28:28):
fellowship.
So so the Kojeko also, I I umafter after I won this, uh I got
this uh this fellowship.
Also, I did um a fellowship inGermany itself um where it was
about anti-Semitism.
So basically it was incollaboration with DAD, D A A D.
And we went to Berlin, we saw umwe had this strip of learning
(28:52):
about not just about thehistory, but basically about the
current um Jewish life inGermany.
And um, you know what I rememberthe most was was the art, the
monuments, the museum.
Um just to show you how art isuh important in memory and
justice, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
Yes, yes.
And what would you say about therelevance and the urgency of
keeping the Holocaust alive inthe conversation today?
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
I mean, unfortunately, it feels urgent
than ever right now, um, withthe rise of anti-Semitism and
other um haters in the worldworldwide, when people just uh
murdering people um just becausejust because they can, but my
heart broke about the the uhUkrainian uh refugee um who just
(29:48):
you know just just got murdered,or when people just get murdered
from thinking differently,right?
For different uh thoughts.
Um but the Holocaust is aconstant remember.
For what happens whendehumanization goes unchecked.
And through art, I am to carrythe memory forward, not just as
(30:12):
a trauma, passive, but alsomoving forward.
And that the responsibility thatholds to hold memory in a way
that inspires vigilance and alsoresilience.
So yeah, the alcus is not just aJewish memory, but a humanity
conscience.
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
What would you think then about describing artists as
witnesses of our time?
SPEAKER_03 (30:39):
Yeah, our artists are not, artists have uh uh such
an important role because it'snot just witnesses, but our
responsibility is to act to actupon it and and like I said, and
think of creative ways to notjust to to um to preserve it,
but also to uh act to be anactivist and and have that as a
(31:02):
tool, as a catalyst for action,um, through art and for people
not just to remember but to alsoto feel, to engage.
Um yeah, so that's why also Ishifted my work from 2D to more
to more immersive, to moredifferent disciplines.
So for me, my my medium, theprocess, is um determined by the
(31:24):
the theme, by what I explore,but what I want to say.
And yeah, that's why I don't seemyself just you know as a
painter, even though I startedas a as a painter.
Um I came here and I was the artassistant um of artist uh Mir
Hod when I uh concluded myFulbright.
Um but then like I said, uh lifeevents and yeah, shifted my uh
(31:49):
my art.
unknown (31:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Well, thank you so much.
Is there are there other pointsthat I have not asked you about
that you want to touch on?
SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
Yeah, I just wanted to to mention my upcoming um
shows or project that I'mworking on.
So right now I'm I'm developingum new project from the 2026 uh
Jerusalem Biennale that um um mycurator, the same curator that
we went uh two years ago uh tobe uh to the Biennale, and I
sent you a few photos uh fromthat work.
(32:21):
Um so woohoo, that's uh uh rightnow my my big my big news
because it's uh I'm very veryexcited uh to be part of it.
And um my my work is my new workthat I'm developing.
It's it's called um WanderingJew, and it's about, and I will
include also the the plant uhwandering you and um continue to
(32:44):
live in intimacy and justicefrom from New York to Jerusalem
because it's in Jerusalem.
But um it's about a collectiveact of healing and renewal um in
the performance that um alsowill be open to the uh
participant.
Um with the participant uh fromum they will help me to uh a
(33:08):
durational performance embodyingresilience through elemental uh
movement, breathe, and healing.
And I'm going to quote uh fromum I believe Kabbalah from the
wound, light flows, healing,resilience, renewal.
So that's something that's um mynext project.
SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
I'm excited to see how you incorporate the plant
into wondering Jew or kiss thewound.
SPEAKER_03 (33:31):
I'm thinking I'm still thinking of it, but it's
all going to come together.
Um and yeah, and to talk alsoabout this.
Um I did have um a question foryou, uh Stephanie.
I don't know if uh I'm justcurious.
Uh I know you asked in your umthe the guests what their
definition of justice.
Um I'm curious to hear yourdefinition and if had if it did
(33:55):
involve or changed.
SPEAKER_01 (33:57):
Early on, when I started asking individuals their
thoughts, one guest haddescribed it as public love, and
I just loved that, especially inlaw school.
I think there was thispreoccupation with the legal
aspect of it.
But after, thankfully, lawschool, I started to broaden my
(34:19):
approach to it, and now itreally is this fascination for
me to look at every angle ofjustice.
Historical really resonates withme, like bringing alive legacies
of individuals, especiallyStefania knows this, the
legacies of female artists ofour past who have been
underappreciated and and almostobliterated from history.
(34:42):
So giving them a voice andgiving a voice to anyone who has
been marginalized.
SPEAKER_03 (34:48):
I love that.
It's also similar to what I saidabout so what what draws you to
the stories that you choose?
SPEAKER_01 (34:54):
What's what's what makes you decide what's
interests you what which topicsare uh when I find an individual
that really uh their work speaksto me if they're an artist, or I
just love their message, or it'sa message that I feel like
hasn't been highlighted enough.
(35:16):
I want to highlight it.
Oh, and Alan?
SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
I I just love this because I have no artistic
talent whatsoever, so I justlike seeing other people's work,
but I also because I I like youknow, because art there's that
stuff where you just likeappreciate it just on an instant
level.
It's like great, but then it'salso brilliant when you get to
hear from the people who createdthe art, it just gives it a
whole new perspective, and it'snice to sort of then revisit it.
(35:42):
I mean, I must confess, I alwayslike to come to art blind at
first.
You know, it's I don't want tohear anything about who did it,
why they did it, what it'ssupposed to mean.
It's like, what does it mean tome?
And then it's really nice whenyou hear somebody afterwards
sort of going, Well, this iswhat it is, because sometimes
you go, Oh, yeah, that makessense.
And other times you go, Oh, I'venever even thought of that.
But now I can see it.
(36:03):
So, but that's why I love theselittle sessions.
SPEAKER_03 (36:05):
And Alan, I just want to uh echo what you said.
I love what you said about aboutart being um to just speak for
itself before you know all thebackground and everything.
Um, that's exactly also uh interms of justice.
I want to give everybody thereview, no matter who who did
that, right?
First look at the art, give it achance, um, and then the the
extra information just givesanother uh layer.
(36:29):
It's um just another um point ofview.
But but another uh complimentthat that that I owe another
feedback that I love receivingis that the art is not just
visually aesthetically pleasing,but then you also have this uh
conceptual layer that makespeople think.
SPEAKER_01 (36:46):
So Renee, I believe you were also in a New York
spring break show.
Would you want to share a bitabout that work?
SPEAKER_03 (36:52):
And this work was was um Project Forgiveness.
I started I I showed um writtenon water.
Um, and it was when back when Iit was in 2018, I want to say.
So yeah, it's been it's been awhile.
And it was before my shiftinginto activist and and artivist,
and it was more when I focusedon my um on my own trauma and my
(37:14):
own healing, and you know, kindof want to share uh um so so my
dad was for from Paraguay, and Ihave uh he left me and my twin
brother when we were seven, so Ihaven't seen seen him, and he
was a famous musician.
Um, and um basically I I I I wona grant, and then I went to to
(37:34):
um with a photographer to be myum doc the to do the
documentary, and I went therefor the first time, meeting um
for the first time all of hisfamily, my my half sibling, my
my my uh my sister, my brother,my aunts, my everybody.
Um so basically I did um aperformance there when I was
(37:56):
there, I performed to his song,um Besame mucho.
Um but he unfortunately passedaway when I was here.
So um my exhibition there, it'scalled Project Forgiveness, and
basically I forgive myself.
Um because um one day when umwhen he did when when my my
(38:16):
parents divorced and he wentthere, he did he wanted for me
and my my brother to come visit,and I was so mad and I was so
angry, you know, as a kid thathe left and left raising without
a dad.
Um but then only when when yougrow up who realized to look at
parents as people, right?
Just people, everybody is peopleno matter what.
(38:37):
Um and I did have an opportunityto go and visit and he was
waiting for me, but I got thisthe same the same summer, I also
got the notification that I Igot the second or third uh round
of the Fulbright.
And as you know, Fulbright is uhis you know very prestigious and
uh um a great uh opportunity.
So I did not go to Paraguay.
(38:59):
I was supposed to go BurningMan, then Paraguay, but uh I
didn't.
But little did I know that hewas dying.
He didn't tell me.
So I missed this opportunity andthis um show, this exhibition
that I did, Project Forgivenessand then Britain and Water was
my gift for him, get my gift formyself, forgiving myself,
(39:19):
talking about forgiveness.
And again, healing and amusingartists.
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