Episode 2: Mike Morang

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening.
I want to thank all of those wholistened to episode one.
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(00:22):
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probably around episode five,you should hear this new
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(00:43):
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(01:26):
Thank you again for listening,and I hope you enjoy this
episode of Warfighter's Diary.
All right, I am here today withMaster Chief Michael Morang, who
joined the Navy in October 1987,attended boot camp in San Diego.
You went in to become a basichospital corpsman, is that

(01:48):
right?
And you went to x-ray school,you went to field medicine
service school.
First duty station was Okinawa,Japan.
You've been all over since then,the West Coast, Washington,
Oregon, down in Texas.
You've done some pretty bigthings in the Navy.

(02:11):
You've been responsible for themedical and dental readiness for
over 3,000 Marines and sailors.
And apparently, looking at yourbio, which you gave me a really
extensive bio, I'm narrowing itdown a little bit right here,
but it looks like you were in...
You were in a position like thatin several different locations.
Your awards include theMeritorious Service Medal, three

(02:34):
Navy and Marine AccommodationMedals, three Navy and Marine
Achievement Medals, two NavyMeritorious Unit Accommodation
Medals, six Good Conduct Medals,Sea Service, numerous Unit and
Service Awards.
So it's good to have you herewith me today, Mike.
Awesome to have you.
Yeah, so tell me about yourearly days.

(02:56):
Where'd you grow up?
Well,

SPEAKER_03 (02:59):
I'm going to do one slight correction for you.
Good, okay.
You mentioned that I was amaster chief, but I'm
technically not a master chief.

SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Well, what are you?

SPEAKER_03 (03:10):
It's...
I don't want to say it like justchief, but it's chief.
So in the Navy, you got E7,which is a chief, E8 is senior
chief, and then E9 is masterchief.
Okay.
So I retired as a chief pettyofficer at a hospital, a
corpsman.

(03:31):
But yeah, I don't want to getblasted.

SPEAKER_02 (03:35):
Somebody knows who I am.
Wait a minute.
He didn't retire as a masterchief.
Well, I didn't mean to promoteyou.
You're good.

SPEAKER_00 (03:42):
You know what I did?
I looked at...
So you've got listed HMC MichaelMorang.
And I looked that up because I'mstupid.
I'm an army guy.
And...
I thought it said HMC was MasterChief Hospital Corpsman.

SPEAKER_03 (04:00):
Well, yeah.
HMC is Hospitalman Chief.
But most of my career, I waswith the Marine Corps.
So very minimal career time withthe blue side.
So with the Marines, HMC...

(04:22):
Possibly when chief made nosense.
So it was either chief or doc,and then that was it.
Okay.
I got you.
That, the HMC, you know, that'smore, I'll say it's more for the
blue side than it is.
Okay.
When you say blue side, you'retalking about Navy side.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 (04:41):
Yeah.
I was confused.
Not going to lie.
I looked at that.
No worries.

SPEAKER_03 (04:47):
You know, what's funny too, like with the army,
when I, done some things withthe army through my military
career.
And even now being out, um, whenI say chief or chief petty
officer, um, a lot of times thearmy thinks that I was a chief
warrant officer and they'relike, Oh sir, how are you?

(05:08):
You know?

SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
No,

SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
no, no, no.
I worked for a living.

SPEAKER_02 (05:13):
I'm like you.

SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
So, um, yeah, we, uh, It didn't matter what the
rank of the medic was in our,you know, we always called them
medic or doc.
Yeah.
No matter what, that's what theywere.
It didn't matter what their paygrade was.
That's just how they werecalled.
And most of

SPEAKER_03 (05:29):
the time for me being with the Marines, most of
the time it was just doc.
You know, you might get that onegunny in particular that would
say, no, this is not a doc, thisis a chief, and you will respect
him as a chief.
I'm like...
It's all right.
It's all right.
Doc is fine.

SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
Yeah.
The Marines can be kind ofhardcore with rank.
I used to train Marines at onepoint, and I was an E6 staff
sergeant.
And in the Army, everybody justcalls you sergeant.
If you're a sergeant, they callyou sergeant.
If you're a staff sergeant, theycall you sergeant.
If you're a sergeant firstclass, they call you sergeant.
But the Marines would alwayscall me staff sergeant.

(06:12):
They would never, everabbreviate.
And I thought that was kind ofcool, just how they were.

SPEAKER_03 (06:19):
And I loved being with the Marines because I felt
like there's just a whole fewdifferent line of respect
between the Marine side of thehouse and then, of course, the
Navy side of the house.
Like, I guess you can kind ofput it like in a family term,
you know, like when you're withthe blue side or the Navy side,

(06:43):
you know, of course they wouldrespect your rank calling you
chief or whatever.
But, um, on the green side withthe Marines, it was a whole
different ball of wax.
And God forbid, if you messwith, you know, chief or doc,
because, you know, they wereright there on the blue side,
you're on your own

SPEAKER_00 (07:03):
almost.
I love the hell out of Marines.
I think just for people that maypick this up and listen to it,
um, In the Army, we have medicsthat they were usually in
headquarters company.
And then whenever we went to thefield or we went to a combat
deployment, the medics would getassigned down to the platoon

(07:24):
level.
But they were soldiers.
But in the Marines, they don'thave their own organic medics.
So they draw corpsmen from theNavy.
So when they go out in a platoonformation or whatever, you have
a Navy corpsman as a part ofthat formation.
which I always thought was cool.

(07:44):
So a lot of the Navy corpsmenthat I've met are basically
Marines.
Right, exactly.
You know?
So how much of your career wereyou with Marines as opposed to
just Navy?

SPEAKER_03 (07:55):
So I did, technically by the books, I did
28 years before I retired.
My official retirement date was,I think it was 1 August of 2016.
So I guess I'm still fairlyearly in my retirement.
So I did 28 years, and out ofthat 28, I would say pretty
close to 20 years was with theMarine Corps.

(08:20):
When I joined, I joined back inOctober of 87.
And the idea of joining was, mymom used to work at Providence
Hospital in our local area up inWashington State.
And I was kind of getting boredthrough my summers.

(08:41):
You know, you can only do somuch fishing and things of that
nature.
And so I was 16, I think, atthat time.
And she said, hey, you want tocome volunteer at the hospital?
And I said, doing what?
And it just so happened that thex-ray department was needing
some help.
So I went and volunteered at thex-ray department at Providence

(09:04):
Hospital up there in WashingtonState.
And I just fell in love withdoing x-rays.
The tech, the one tech inparticular, he would, I think
like within a month after I kindof got a good grasp of how to
position patients, I mean, ofcourse he would take the x-ray,

(09:28):
but he would allow me to startpositioning the patients,
whether it was like a hand x-rayor something like that.
And then eventually, Going intomy second year of volunteering
at the hospital, he actuallystarted letting me do the
imaging, which was really cool.
And I saw some crazy stuff, ofcourse, you know, things that

(09:52):
come in.
And I told my mom and dad, Isaid, I think I want to go into
the medical field.
And I actually wanted to jointhe Marine Corps.
Really?
That was my goal.
I wanted to join the MarineCorps.
Well, the Marine Corps doesn'thave medical.
So then it was like, okay, well,what's the next best thing?

(10:12):
And I was deciding between theNavy and the Army.
And I don't know, I can'tremember what the flavor was for
that day of what provoked me togo more onto the Navy side and
go through the recruiting, but Idid.
And just like with anything, itwas like going through your used

(10:32):
car salesman.
They sold me on, oh, I'm goingto get you in.
You're going to go through coreschool, basically become a
medic, and then we'll get youthrough.
And at that time, x-ray schoolwas two schools.
There was basic, which is justshooting bone density type
images.
And then advanced, you got intomore of your ultrasounds and CAT

(10:57):
scans and fluoroscopies andthings of that nature.
So your special study stuff.
And so I was hooked.
I was sold.
I'm like, let's do it.
And signed up.
And then found out the firstfour years of my career that
that's not how things go.

(11:18):
Just because you sign on thedotted line doesn't mean that
the Navy's going to, or reallyany branch of service is going
to do exactly what they say onpaper.
So I went in in 87, got my rudeawakening going through boot
camp.
Very eye-opening experience.
And then when I graduated andthen went to Balboa, San Diego.

(11:45):
And getting ready to start coreschool.
And I think we were on atwo-week hiatus before school
started.
And once I got done with bootcamp and was away from boot
camp, I made an immediate phonecall.
And my dad answered the phone.
And I don't even think I said,hello, dad, or anything like

(12:06):
that.
I said, I now understand whatyou were doing.
And he chuckled.
And I just basically said, dad,I now get everything that, in a
sense, I was in training for forthose first 18 years.
Right.
And mom.
So then I went into core school,and that was three months.

(12:28):
As soon as I graduated from coreschool, I went right into basic
x-ray school in Oakland, whichthere's nothing there now,
really military-wise, other thanI think the closest reserve
center nowadays is Alameda andConcord.
or something like that.
I think that's where they're at.

(12:50):
San Bruno is not that far, whichI did later on in my career,
adventure back that way.
But went through x-ray school,that was another three months,
and then got the rude awakeningthat, oh, shit, man, you're not
going anywhere but to FMFschool.
And I'm like, what is that?
FMF, so that's Fleet MarineForce School.

(13:11):
Okay.
So that's where you actuallybecome a Fleet Marine Force
Corpsman.
being with the Marines.
And I'm looking at theinstructor when they were
handing me my paperwork and I'mlike, no, this is not where I'm
supposed to go.

SPEAKER_02 (13:28):
I'm supposed to be an x-ray tech.
I'm supposed to be an x-ray techand I'm actually supposed to go
into advanced x-ray school.
That's what I was promised.
And of course, You get thechuckle,

SPEAKER_03 (13:37):
like, ha, ha, ha, I know you're not.
You're

SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
recruited to tell you?

SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
Yeah, we're doing the needs of the Navy, son, and
we need you to go to FMF school.
So I'm like, oh, my God.
Well,

SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
you did say that you kind of wanted to be a Marine.
Yeah, I did, I did.

SPEAKER_03 (13:56):
So I went to FMF school down in San Diego.
And what's interesting is, like,when I was prepping for my
program, to go into boot camp, Iwas actually doing the Marine
Corps KFT standards.
So the three-mile run, the 20pull-ups, and then...
You were doing all this beforebasic.

(14:17):
Before basic.
Good.
Because when I was younger, Iwas a fat kid.
I was pretty chunky.

SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Well, I was going to ask you because you're a really
fit guy now.
And I didn't know, you know,I've only known you for a couple
of years now, but going into theservice, I was, I was curious,
were you a fitness guy backthen?
Nope.

SPEAKER_03 (14:39):
I was a fat boy back, back then, um, all
through, you know, all throughmy, um, uh, young teenage years.
Um, and I think I was rightaround 15, maybe, maybe 16.
My dad came up to me and hesays, he goes, Mike, he says, I

(15:00):
know you can't see your toes.
And he looked down.
No, he didn't look.
No, he did.
Dad had a way.
So he's like, I know you can'tsee your toes.
He says, and I know you lovefishing.
And I did.
I love going fishing.
And he says, I'll make you abet.
He says, I'll give you one monthto drop 20 pounds.
If you drop 20 pounds in onemonth, I'll take you on a

(15:23):
charter boat fishing trip forthe whole weekend.
Okay.
And I'm like, oh, game.
Yeah, I can do that.
So for one month, I trained.
I was running.
I was lifting weights everyother day.
I cut out snacks.
And I'm talking like even snacksthat even theoretically are
healthy, you know.

(15:44):
Like fruits and such?
Even that.
I wasn't even eating late atnight.
You know, I stopped eating rightat Usually dinner was right
around that 6, 7 o'clock timeframe.
So I stopped eating dinner rightafter that, or stopped eating
right after that.
Tried to drink my watercontinuously, all that kind of
good stuff.
And what do you know, in amonth, I dropped almost 30

(16:05):
pounds.
Nice.
So, now mind you, I'm young.
So I'm going into my junior highschool year.
And besides all the weight lossand kind of building some
muscle, you know, I...
back then in the eighties, youknow, the hairstyles are all
different.
So I kind of went in with thehairstyle.

(16:26):
I think it was the, remember theold duck bottom, you know, way
that comes to the back and thenkind of comes down anyway.
So, so I do all this stuff and,and I go back to school and all
the, all the guys and the girls,the cheerleaders, the, snobs, if

(16:50):
you will.
I mean, all of them.
Like, who the hell is this guy?
You know, is this a new student?
And I can't remember her name,but she, I remember, I know this
one girl came up to me and she'slike, is your name Mike?
I'm like, yes, it's Mike Morang.
I've

SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
known you since kindergarten.
I've known you for the last fouror five years.
She was like,

SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
oh my God.
And she like many of them backthen, of course, um, you know,
as men, um, and young boys, youknow, we love all the women back
in school, you know, I want todate them all and all that kind
of stuff.
Once she said that, you know,the light bulb went off and I

(17:35):
went, Oh, okay.
So workout means women,attention, which means all that
stuff.
And I'm like, okay, now Iunderstand.
So I, tried to keep my physicalfitness up.
I did play baseball, high schoolbaseball then.
And yeah, it was like, like,okay, I get this.

(17:58):
So now I know that, you know,what I need to do as far as if I
want to have, you know, any kindof attention from women, you
know, you have to do something.
Right, right.
So, but then when I went intovolunteering at the hospital,
then I'm like, okay, well, Iwant to become, an x-ray tech,

(18:19):
and the only way to do this,because I don't have money to go
to college and whatnot, so theonly way to do that was join the
military, join the Navy.
As I'm prepping for boot camp,I'm doing the actual, because I
looked at all the PFT standards,and of course at that time, the
Marine Corps stood out the mostto me, not saying that it was

(18:42):
the best, but it stood out themost to me.
And so I started training thatway.
And by the time I entered bootcamp, I was weighing in at, I
think, around 158, 159 pounds.
I was, like, skinny.
Wow.
And then, of course, when Igraduated boot camp, my eating

(19:03):
is different.
You're shoveling food as fast asyou can down the line.
And then you're out there PTing,it seems like, down there every
hour on the hour.
Right.
And then...
So by the time I graduated bootcamp, I'm back up to around 176.
But it's muscle now.
I felt it was more muscle thanof anything.
So then when FMF school camearound or got sent to FMF

(19:28):
school, you know, I kept mytraining

SPEAKER_04 (19:31):
up.

SPEAKER_03 (19:32):
And now you're dealing with Marines.
So they're screaming at me, youknow, like...
Totally different culture.
Different culture.
Never...
I was like, what the frickhappened here?
This is not what

SPEAKER_02 (19:46):
I planned.
It's not

SPEAKER_03 (19:47):
going to end anytime soon.
But I remember one time goingthrough.
So we're about halfway done.
And we have to do our fitnesstest.
But we have to do the MarineCorps test.
So we're not the Navy standardtesting, which is only a mile
and a half.

(20:07):
Your crunches are sit-ups.
And then push-ups is the Navy.
So we can't do that.
We're doing the actual MarineCorps.
So I'm going through.
That

SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
would have been a culture shock for the other
corpsmen that were coming in.
I mean, you at least werepreparing yourself.

SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
I felt,

SPEAKER_03 (20:27):
you know, when you're, you don't realize when
you're going through it, But atthe end, and you're kind of
hearing scores, and you'relooking at your battle buddies
and whatnot, and you're seeingthey're kind of shaken up.
They weren't expecting this kindof training.
Right.
But I felt like I was a littlebit ahead of the game.

(20:50):
So when we go to do this, Imaxed out on pull-ups, I maxed
out on sit-ups, and because ofmy running that I had been
doing, Frickin', I got done withthe three-mile run at 18, I
think it was 18.15.
That's

SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
fast.

SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
So I'm damn near doing a six-minute mile.
That's insane.
And, of course, perfect score isyour 20 pull-ups, 100 sit-ups,
and running three miles in 18minutes.
That's a perfect.
So I missed perfect by 15seconds.
We get back to the school, andthey call me up.
All these...

(21:26):
marines that are instructorsalong with the the one hm1 e6
that was up there and they callme up and the next thing i know
i'm getting my butt handed to mebecause you didn't max because
how dare a corpsman oh yeah

SPEAKER_02 (21:46):
almost do better than any marine that was out
there I'm like, what am I doingwrong?
But apparently, apparently I amnot to show up anybody.
I'm just to be a fat corpsman orsomething.

SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
Tell me about that phone call with your dad.
What, what specifically were youreferring to when you said, I
now know I get it.

SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
So my dad, so my dad

SPEAKER_03 (22:18):
was, um, Well, let me back up a little bit.
So my grandpa, his dad, was inthe Navy, had been busted down
numerous different times, butmanaged to retire as a chief in
the Navy.
And so his upbringing, you know,he put down to his son.

(22:43):
So there was my dad, Mike.
Scott was the oldest brother.
And then Kevin was the youngestone.
And back then, and in the South,it's very strict upbringing,
right?
And so, of course, as thingstrickled down, what dad's dad

(23:04):
did to him, he was doing to me.
And my dad was the kind of dadthat everything, you know, you
could always do better.
But the...
discipline was always kind ofquestionable, right?
So, and back then, as I wasgrowing up, and then, you know,

(23:27):
and then when my sister camealong, the swatting on the butt,
even the hand slap across theface if you got lippy with your
parents was still in effect,

SPEAKER_04 (23:40):
you know?

SPEAKER_03 (23:41):
So, my dad raised me that if my sister got in
trouble, I got in trouble.
I actually got the butt whooped.
What?
So if my sister broke the vaseon the shelf, I got whooped
because I was supposed to keepher out of trouble.
Oh, wow.

(24:01):
Which was how his dad taught hissons and then on down the line.
So it was this kind ofmentality...
Of responsibility andaccountability.
And accountability, exactly.
And so...
I think my dad, in comparison tomy sister, so in my family,
there were four kids.

(24:23):
So myself and my sister arethree years apart.
Then there's an 11-year gap.
And then my two younger brotherswere born, but one of them is
gone now, Matt and Jake.
And they are three years apart,which is kind of an interesting
combo in itself.
So my sister and I had herbrought up.

(24:44):
Fairly strict.
I mean, not overly strict, butstrict enough.
And then my two younger brotherscame into the age of, oh, we
can't swat anybody.
I got it.
Why

SPEAKER_02 (25:00):
aren't

SPEAKER_03 (25:00):
they?
Yeah, exactly.
How come they're not gettingtheir butts swatted or whatever?
How come they're not going intothe corner?
And all those kind of things.
So dad, I think, really focusedon me.
because I think he saw that, youknow, I think, I think to some

(25:20):
degree, um, I'm good with likehandling and dealing with
leadership stuff and thatresponsibility and trying to,
and I play that card of, youknow, um, of owning up to
everything that you do and it'sokay to make mistakes just as
long as you own up to them andjust, um, fuck them up as

(25:42):
learning experiences and justkind of move on type thing.
And I think, or I would want tobelieve that that's what dad saw
in me.
And so compared to my sister, asI see it, I got the harder front
of everything.
My sister was a phenom insmartness.

(26:07):
And we joke now, which I'm sureeven if she even heard this
podcast, she would say the samething.
Heather was a genius with thebooks.
I mean, when she was in ninthgrade, she was taking English
Comp 101 at a college level.
This is how smart she was.
She was a straight-A student.

(26:28):
And so if my grades were lessthan B's, I actually got in
trouble.
I got grounded.
I couldn't do things.
I'm like, I'm not Heather.
Stop treating me like her.
I'm not going to ever be her.
But Heather is that smart personthat you could drop a penny in a

(26:48):
bowl of common sense and itwould never hit bottom.
And I was that way for a longtime.
Now that Heather got out on herown and experienced life,
really, Obviously, that hastapered dramatically.
I couldn't honestly say thatabout her now, but during high

(27:11):
school, for me high school, butjunior high for her high school,
it was legitimately like, sis,you know that the stove is hot,
so if you put your hand on thestove, it's going to burn.
It was that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
But

SPEAKER_03 (27:30):
anyway, when, when I called dad and all the things
that, um, he and I had beenthrough and we had multiple
rough patches, um, and I've donesome stuff that probably scared
them quite a bit, but for him tokind of keep with me, you know,

(27:55):
keep kind of, um, edumacating meand so on and so forth.
So when I got, went throughbootcamp and going through
bootcamp day one, it was like,what in the hell did I get
myself into?
You know, life wasn't that bad.
Right.
You know, why am I tortured?
Yeah, exactly.

(28:15):
So when, uh, when I got donewith bootcamp, I felt so in
bootcamp, I had a senior chiefthat was our general instructor
in the first class.
In the first class, he had toplay his cards.
He had to be the asshole, right?
Right.
I mean, that's just one of them.
That's his role.
Yeah.
One has to be the good cop andone has to be the bad cop.

(28:37):
Yep.
So senior chief was the goodcop.
I think he, no, he wasn't ineach one, but he was a first
class, but he had to be the badcop.
And that, between the two, just,reminded me so much of my dad
and the things that they weretrying to get us to think about

(28:58):
as we're going through thistraining and and the humility at
times and and that it's okay youknow and stuff like that when I
got done with boot camp Iimmediately called dad and well
of course you know I always sayI love you miss you that type of
thing but it's like I now getit.

(29:19):
I understand what those past 18years were and what you're
trying to do with me.

SPEAKER_00 (29:27):
I totally agree with that.
I was the oldest too.
And just the way I was broughtup when I went through BASIC, I
actually thought BASIC was kindof fun.
To me, it was nowhere near astraumatizing as it was for some
of the people that were in mytraining platoon.
And you could kind of tell whohad kind of had an easy first 18

(29:50):
years of life.
And you could kind of tell whocame from adversity.
And the guys that came fromadversity adapted so much
quicker and and just kind of gotinto an acceptance kind of vibe.
And it's just like, all right,this is it.
This is what we're doing today.
Embrace it.
And I

SPEAKER_03 (30:07):
think like for me.
So when I went through bootcamp, I was the fourth grader.
Squad leader.
I have no idea how I got thatposition.
That's crazy.
I was too.
I was the fourth squad leader.
And I don't know if it wasbecause, you know, in your
facing movements, I picked himup real quick, but I was the

(30:33):
fourth squad leader.
So it wasn't, I mean,responsibility was right there
immediately.
I think those first two weeksare still trying to figure you
out.
your drill instructors and then,you know, the company as a
whole.
Still trying to figureeverything out.
And then after that, now weknow, okay, here's our CC that

(30:58):
leads the company.
Here's our drill instructors.
Here's our squad leaders.
Here's the person that handles,you know, mail, whatever the
case may be.
And so now you kind of figure itout and where their leadership
roles are at.
But yeah, it was...
I have no idea because now Idon't think I could do a face-in
movement to save my

SPEAKER_00 (31:19):
life.
You could with some practice.
Yeah, probably.
I'm sure you could.
I think the drill sergeants,they're really good at spotting
leadership potential early on.
I mean, I don't know if it waslike this for you, but our squad
leaders were getting fired andreplaced on a daily basis until
they settled in with four whostayed the squad leaders for the
rest of basic training.

(31:40):
My basic training was fourmonths long.
It was...
Tank training and basiccombined.
So my drill sergeants weretankers.
The whole company, everybody inthe unit was tankers.
So on day three, we're goingdown to the motor pool.
They're taking their drillsergeant hats off, putting
patrol caps on and becoming tankinstructors.
And they were like totally chillwhen they were doing that.

(32:03):
But as soon as we walk out ofthe motor pool and those, those
brown rounds would go back ontheir head, they go right back
into drill sergeant mode.
And it was, It was like game onagain.
But I loved it.
I had a blast there.
Became squad leader at like weekone and stayed there the whole
time.
And with that came some perks.
But it came with a lot ofresponsibility too.

(32:23):
But I think every one of thesquad leaders and the platoon
guide, well, no, the platoonguide actually, he never, he
didn't make it.
But I think everybody elsestayed in the military and they
became leaders in the military.
I think drill sergeants arereally good at finding those
guys that had that potential.

SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
I think so.
And I think, you know, when youfirst go into boot camp and
you're dealing with it, youthink that these drill
instructors are the biggesta-holes in the entire world, but
they are actually good peopleand they're just trying to
They're trying to bring out thebest in you.

(33:04):
And like I said, our two arereally, really bad at
remembering names.
I can see their faces.
And I just remember the time.
I remember our boot camp endedearly and we couldn't transition
out right away to our A school.

(33:29):
Actually, Yeah, that is A schoolbecause X-ray would have been C
school for me.
So couldn't transfer.
So we had to stick around in ourbarracks there for like a whole
week before we could transitionout because I think we graduated
early and then there was timingand weather.

(33:50):
And I mean, there's a bunch ofdifferent things, right?
So we had a lot of leniency thatwere given to us.
And I remember, remember thepaper footballs?

SPEAKER_00 (34:00):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 (34:00):
So we're all bored.
And so it's got to be at least30 of us in this company.
And there must have been about30 to 40 of these paper
footballs.
And we're playing games.
We're playing tournaments andwhatnot.
But we're technically notsupposed to have these, right?

(34:22):
We're not supposed to be havingthis much fun.
You graduated, but you're stillin basic.
Still in basic.
So...
someone yells down the hall thatthe drill instructors are coming
and we're scrambling.
We're trying to clean up andtrying to hide all these
footballs.
So what do I do?

(34:42):
I suck it up and I put themajority of them in my ear
locker or my foot locker.
I mean, not your locker footlocker.
And I had some in my shavingbag.
I had some just hiddenunderneath some clothes and
whatnot.
And I think, Our journalistdirectors had this plan from the
get-go because they knew that wewere doing this.

(35:05):
And they came down.
We had to pop tall.
Inspection time.
And I wish I could see myeyeballs because they must have
looked like dish plates.
Like, oh, no.

SPEAKER_02 (35:18):
I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 (35:19):
So they go down through some of the bunk beds
we're at and opening up footlockers.
And they were pulling on acouple of footballs here, a
couple of footballs there.
And, of course, those shipmateshad to step forward.
And they're talking up the stormabout, we're going to get
mashed.

(35:40):
And, you know, you're going toget mashed so hard.
You guys are going to try tomake me sweat type thing, all
that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, oh, my God,they're going to get to my
locker.

SPEAKER_02 (35:49):
And I've got

SPEAKER_03 (35:50):
at least

SPEAKER_02 (35:50):
20 of these things in my.
And they get to my locker andthey

SPEAKER_03 (35:56):
open it up.
And right there, the first thingthat they see are like three of
them just laying right up ontop.
And I'm like, Oh my God, I'mdone now.
So senior is the one that'sactually going through my locker
and he reaches down and he pullsout all my shirts and whatnot.
And as he does that, footballsare just falling.

SPEAKER_02 (36:21):
And

SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
he goes, He goes, oh, really, meringue?
And I'm like, oh, it's over now.
And he says, are there any more?
And

SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
everybody's looking at me, and I'm like, go ahead,
senior.
You know you want to open it up.
And so he opens up my shavingbag, and here are another 10 to
15 that come in

SPEAKER_03 (36:45):
there.

SPEAKER_02 (36:45):
And he goes, all right.

SPEAKER_03 (36:47):
So for every football that I count, you're
owing me, like, like an hour ofPT or something like that.
And I'm like,

SPEAKER_02 (36:57):
Oh my God, I must be two days in there.
So, but

SPEAKER_03 (37:02):
after all that, and of course getting the, the
bejeebas scared out of you,they, they just started laughing
and cracking up.
They just, they gave back thefootballs up on, on top of the
table.
And they said, we don't carewhat you guys are doing to have
fun.
You're on.
You know, you can't go anywhere,so we're not going to deprive
you of anything.
That's good.

(37:22):
So it was all been fun.

SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
It shows that they're human after all.

SPEAKER_03 (37:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:28):
Luckily.

SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
Yeah.
I mean, not all of our drillsergeants were human.
We had some psychopaths thatjust, all the other drill
sergeants would go home at 1700or 1800 to their wives.
But we'd have a couple thatstuck around until like 9
o'clock at night just to tortureus.
Yeah.
And it's like, don't you have alife?
Go away.
No, I don't.

(37:49):
They don't have a life.
Yeah.
So after your schooling andeverything else, your first duty

SPEAKER_03 (37:55):
station was Okinawa?
So my first duty station wasOkinawa as an x-ray tech.
So you did finally get to doyour x-ray stuff.
So I'm doing basic x-ray.
So you're still just onlyshooting...
bone studies, at least for meanyway.
The first duty station wasOkinawa, Japan.
And as soon as I get over there,I go through EMT training and

(38:20):
ambulance training.
Oh, wow.
And ambulances back then, whichwould have been in 89, were So
you had your typical square box,white ambulance.
Right.
Then we had the good oldVolkswagen VW van ambulance.
Oh, my God.
I've never seen those.

(38:42):
Like a VW hippie bus kind ofthing?
Like a hippie bus.
No

SPEAKER_00 (38:45):
way.

SPEAKER_03 (38:46):
It's all white with the big red cross on it, and
it's the ambulance.
So we have one white box in thisvan converted into an ambulance.

SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
That's awful.

SPEAKER_03 (38:56):
So I'm stationed up at Camp Schwab.
I'm a Schwab-y up there.
And so I went through EMTtraining, ambulance training.
And then, of course, you do yourcombat training and whatnot.
And then I did a three-monthtour over in Korea.

(39:18):
from Okie called Valiant Blitzand Bear Hunt.
That was a blast.
That was the first time that Iate dog meat.
I never knew I had it.
I was there for a

SPEAKER_00 (39:28):
year and never ate it.

SPEAKER_03 (39:30):
Did you like it?
I...
One of my buddies said...
So we were doing a patrol.
So we were just south of Seoul.
Okay.
And we were doing a patrol andwe stopped to get something to
eat.
And...
Because luckily, you know,brains were not being stupid.
And so we decided that we weregetting something to eat.

(39:54):
And I didn't know what I'mordering on the menu because you
can't read anything.
And I couldn't understand howthe person was asking me, you
know, or telling me.
So I pointed to the picture thatlooked appetites.

SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
And so we're eating.

SPEAKER_03 (40:11):
And I'm like, it's not bad.
And my buddy goes, Mike, youknow, you're eating dog meat.
And I'm like, yeah, you're fullof blood, you know?
He's like, no, really, you'reeating dog meat.
And I said, no, I'm not.
He says, Mike, have you seen adog in the last three or four
blocks?
And I'm like, come to think ofit, no.

(40:32):
And he goes,

SPEAKER_04 (40:32):
how about a cat?

SPEAKER_03 (40:34):
And I said, no.
And he goes, hence, dog meat.
And I'm like,

SPEAKER_01 (40:41):
no way.

SPEAKER_03 (40:42):
And he says, so what do you think?
And I'm like, not bad.
I mean, it's, you know, that,The theory of, oh, it tastes
like chicken.
It tastes like chicken.
I mean, it wasn't bad.
The seasoning that they usedmade the meat appetizer to eat,
but it tastes like chicken.

SPEAKER_00 (40:59):
I thought that whole thing was...
I thought it was fake.
I didn't think it was real.
And so I got over there, andthere was a place...
Do you know where Camp Gary Owenis?
It's, like, right up on the DMZ.
We had one...
one unit of army guys up therewho unfortunately had basically
a die-in-place mission.
Like, if the North Koreans everinvaded, they were going north

(41:22):
of a bridge and blowing thebridge behind them so there was
no retreat and they were goingto hold in place until the unit
that I was in got up there torelieve them.
So these guys lived next to adog farm where they farmed dogs
for consumption and These guys,soldiers, young soldiers, come

(41:48):
from families where they all haddogs back home.
And so they decided one nightthat they're going to rescue
these dogs.
And we're talking, I guess theway these are set up, they're
like kennels stacked on top ofeach other.
I mean, if PETA was to seeanything like this, they'd lose
their minds because it wasjust...
I mean, our farming here forcattle and everything else was

(42:09):
light years ahead of where...
The Koreans were at the time.
It was not great conditions.
But so they sneak in there onenight.
They're drunk.
Go in there like on a Fridaynight and they're going to go
with bolt cutters and releaseall these dogs and let them go.
They opened the first few cages.
The dogs came out and startedattacking them because they're

(42:30):
feral.
Right.
They're not pets.
And they started attacking themand it turned into they needed
rescue from the dog.
Yeah, it was pretty awful.
And that became obviously ano-go area for soldiers.
You're not allowed to free thedogs.
But yeah, that's a part of theirculture.
That's what they do.

(42:51):
Not for me, no thanks.

SPEAKER_03 (42:54):
That trip over there to do Valiant Blitz and Bear
Hunt, that was, so I think itwas an HN, so E3 at that time.
And, you know, after you getthrough all your schooling and
whatnot and kind of get yourfeet in the water at your first
duty station, you know, yourshipmates to include officers,

(43:22):
your buddies.
I didn't realize that I had liketwo officers, two lieutenants
that they love to lift weightsand they knew I lifted weights
and we became friends.
like the whole three months thatwe were over there, we were
always lifting.
And, you know, as you kind ofcontinue to create that

(43:46):
friendship, you know, you're notsupposed to do it.
And we made sure that we didn'tsay first names amongst
everybody.
But the first time one of mylieutenants called me Mike, I
was like looking around like,what the hell is this guy
talking to?
And he's like, you, Mike.
And I'm like, sir, I'm HN.
And he goes, You're fine.

(44:08):
You're Mike.
I'm Tim or whatever.
Was this a Marine lieutenant ora Navy lieutenant?
Navy lieutenant.
Navy, okay.
Navy lieutenant.
And the one lieutenant inparticular, he was basically the
CO of this entire operation.
And so when we were going overthere, of course, I'm going to
have to do x-rays.

(44:28):
And prior to going, I had toinspect my equipment and we were
going to transport a portablex-ray machine.

SPEAKER_01 (44:38):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (44:38):
And it checks out fine.
Get it over there and it won'twork.
Of course.
Of course.
And so they send out anothersame portable type x-ray
machine.
Get it out there.
It won't work.
And I'm like, sir, these thingswon't work.
And I don't know what to dounless you're going to request a

(44:59):
biotech to come out and try tosplice these two together.
But we have no means for x-ray.
And he asked me, he says, whatdo you want to try to do?
And I said, I've got an idea.
You're willing to ride the ride.
And he says, what's your idea?
And I said, well, dental has adental portable x-ray machine.

(45:20):
Now it only, so these are oldmachines now.
So you had to calculate the KVP,which is basically the push or
the electrons pushing.
And then the mass is, the waythat I put it in layman terms is
the colorization of the film.
Okay.
Um, and being out in the field,we don't have a processor where

(45:40):
I can put the film in and itgoes through the, um, make, uh,
the fixer and a developer or thedeveloper and then into the
fixer to create that film thatyou would see, you know, back in
the old days.
Right.
Um, so we didn't have that.
It was an actual dryer.
Like I have to put it in a dryerand, and, in the first stall and

(46:03):
I had it dry for so long andthen I got to put it in this one
and then developing the film wasthe same thing.
I had to dip it in.

SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
So this is like old school film development.
Old school.

SPEAKER_03 (46:13):
Wow.
Yeah.
So everything was a dip methodand then a drying type method.
Anyway, so...
We have come a long way, haven'twe?
So I tell him, I'm like, it onlypushes out 75 kVp.
I said, but I think if I playwith it, I can do most of the

(46:34):
x-rays that we need.
Well, at that time, we had thischief out there, and he's
arguing, saying, you can't dothat.
I'm like, chief, I can do it.
He's like, you can't do that.
That machine won't work.
I'm like, chief, sir, I can dothis.
Just give me a chance.
And so the lieutenant says,chief, we're going to give him a

(46:54):
chance.
And he says, he goes, agent,what do you need?
And I said, I need guinea pigs.
Because I have to play withtechnique.
And he goes, okay, I'll do it.
I'm like, oh, no, sir.
You're not going to be a guineapig.
I said, let's just grab aMarine.
A random Marine.

(47:15):
He goes, no, I'll do it.
He says, I'm not going to putany Marines or sailors in front
of it.
I'll do it.
I said, okay.
So we started messing around.
And the trick was, just knowingthat your max KB was 75, knowing

(47:35):
how to shorten the distance orelongating the distance helped
to dictate that push through thebody part into the bone
structure so that the imagewould come up onto the film.
And then having to know, okay,well, if I Shorten the distance,
and I'm at this max KVP.

(47:56):
This is the mass that I need todo for a chest X-ray.
So we start playing with it, andit didn't take long, and we were
producing chest X-rays,abdominal X-rays, C-spine,
thoracic.
I was doing all limbs.

(48:16):
And, you know, being a youngagent, I think it was maybe 20,
maybe I just turned 20 and stillbeing a smart aleck, you know,
I, I turned in, gave that lookover at chief.
I'm like, now what?
I told you, I told you, I can dothis.
So anyway, that was, that wasfor me, that was like a very

(48:40):
cool son of a gun.
I can do this, you know, atmoment.
And, uh, I remember that.
So the biotech came out, hetried to splice the two machines
together.
That failed.
Then they ship out a, nokidding, a World War II tabletop
x-ray machine.
And when I say World War II, Imean World War II so that I can

(49:05):
do actual x-rays properly.
So we get that out there and I'mactually able to do true x-rays
and not use a dental machine.
But I knew that if it failed, Istill have my backup.
Right.
And I remember...
General Christmas came out toinspect and he comes into our

(49:26):
tent, my tent, and everybodypops tall and he walks right on
up and he sees my name.
He says, you meringue?
And I'm like, yes, sir.
And I'm like, oh, crap.
What did I do?
And how in the hell did he getmy name?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
My name on a general is not good.

UNKNOWN (49:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:48):
And so after he says, are you Moraine?
I said, yes, sir, I am.
And he says, and he reaches outand he shakes my hand.
He says, way to go.
And I'm like, OK, way to go forwhat, sir?
He says, you got our X-raycapabilities back up and
running.
And now that he says, how's thismachine working?
And I said, it's doing real goodright now, sir.

(50:11):
So hopefully knock on wood, youknow, you know, it will continue
because we still have like amonth and a half left to go.
And he's like, if you needanything, you just let me know
because I'll make sure that thisstuff gets to you immediately.
And I'm like, oh, my God, that'sawesome.
The general is telling me if Ineed anything.
Did your head swell?

(50:32):
No, it swelled.
So that was a pretty coolmoment.

SPEAKER_00 (50:39):
Yeah, that's awesome, that recognition.
So do you feel like theknowledge to– to make that fix
on the fly?
Did that come from your years ofdoing it in Washington prior to
coming to the Navy?
Or is that skills that youpicked up just by really paying
attention during school?
I think...

SPEAKER_03 (50:59):
I want to say that it was probably from going
through school.
Just...
And of course, I don't like tofail.
Right.
You know, and...
And I think I just kind oflike...
When the two portable machineswouldn't work, and I happened to
go into our BAS that we had setup, and in the BAS in the corner

(51:25):
was kind of where dental wasbeing held at, and then in the
very corner is where they wereconducting their x-rays.
And I happened to walk in there,and I look over at the machine,
and of course, you know,there's...
no like lead mining wallsbecause we're in a tent, you
know, but everybody has to puton light vests and all that

(51:47):
other kind of stuff.
And they're shooting theirx-rays and I'm just kind of like
staring at it thinking, I can, Ican get this to work.
I know I can.
And so I just, I walked up toone of the techs and I said,
just out of curiosity, what isthe max push KBP push for this
machine?
And they said 75.

(52:07):
And then the mass justfluctuates.
Well, I know they focus on

SPEAKER_01 (52:13):
teeth

SPEAKER_03 (52:13):
and maybe jawline.
And I'm like, well, teeth andjaw is still bone structure.
I'm still kind of dealing withthat density.
So I'm thinking that if I messwith the distance, I can get
these other body parts to work.

(52:36):
The typical distance for thetube when you're shooting, say,
a chest film, since I mentionedthat before, you have to be 72
inches away.
That's the theoretical distance.
And on a good x-ray machine,even to nowadays, it's still 72
inches away.
And then the machines nowadayspretty much do all your

(52:58):
calculations because the machinecan see the thickness and the
density and all that kind ofstuff, and it nine times out of
ten, it will shoot a damn nearperfect image right off the
get-go.
But because of our technologynowadays, the tech can view it
on their screen and then kind ofmess with the picture a little

(53:21):
bit more, enhancing the clarityand so on and so forth.
Back then, you didn't have thatat all.
So you wouldn't know if thepicture was going to be good.
I think it's like Wow.

(53:57):
I think I asked, really, do youthink I could get away with
shooting a chess film, anabdominal series?
Because we were having Marinescoming in.
And of course, it's always thisway.
Belly aches.
Can't poop.
Yeah.
Well, you know, you're eatingMREs and you're probably not

(54:17):
doing your justice of keepingyourself food and filter clean.
So you're clogged.
That's why your belly aches.
But you won't know that for sureuntil you do an abdominal series
of some sort, some kind ofpicture.
And so the tech's like, I don'tknow, we can give it a shot.
And then that's where I wentback and told the lieutenant

(54:38):
saying, hey, I think we can makethis happen, but I need a guinea
pig.
I need a dummy.
And And let me do some testruns.
And if I can get it to work, wecan get back up and actually do
medical like we should be doing.
Right.
So.

SPEAKER_00 (54:53):
All right.
That's awesome.
I think, you know, I've met alot of guys in the military that
were really good at adapting andovercoming and just dealing with
the equipment you've got andfiguring out how to make it
work.
And, you know, you hear that oldJerry Rigg kind of terminology.
That's true.
I mean, even on a multi-milliondollar Abrams tank.

(55:16):
We had jerry-rigged stuffthroughout that worked better
than it worked when it came fromGeneral Dynamics off the factory
line.
It's just like you find ways

SPEAKER_03 (55:26):
to overcome.
My dad loved his famous saying,and I even use it now.
He would always say, I swag thehell out of it.
The first time I asked him, Isaid, swag?
What the hell does that mean,Dad?
And he goes, scientificallywild-ass-guessed

SPEAKER_02 (55:42):
it.

UNKNOWN (55:43):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (55:44):
And I love that phrase.
So

SPEAKER_03 (55:47):
whenever, you know, like you try something and it
magically works and you're like,huh, that should

SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
not have worked, but it's working now.
You could

SPEAKER_00 (55:56):
tell General Christmas.
Yeah.
General Christmas.
How do you get work?
I swag.
Good.
All right.
That's a cool story.
So after Okinawa, I read in yourbio, did you went reserves after
that?
So after Okinawa,

SPEAKER_03 (56:13):
I went to, I came back stateside and went up to
Whippy Island.
Was stationed up there at WhippyIsland for my last little over a
year.
I think I had left to go on myfour-year contract.
Got there, made E3, so I was E4,I was a third-class pay officer,

(56:36):
E4, working in the x-raydepartment.
Now, this is that time frame ofthe Iraqi wars.
Yeah.
You know, come up and I try asmany times as I could to

(56:56):
volunteer to go because, youknow, once you kind of get four
or five years in, you kind ofknow that, you know, in order to
make rank, you got to put allthe checks in the box.
Yep.
Right.

UNKNOWN (57:10):
And

SPEAKER_03 (57:10):
They can sit there and tell you, oh, deployment has
nothing to do with if you makerank.
That's so true.
But it does.
Absolutely does.
And I wanted to do it when I wasyounger because you kind of know
in the back of your mind that ifyou decide to get married and
start a family, it's muchharder, at least this way.

(57:32):
It's just me.
I know I've got family at home,but it's just me.
Right.
So I had to go, and my chief atthat time and the commander of
ancillary services, whichoversees pharmacy, laboratory,

(57:54):
and x-ray, said that this pettyofficer's not going.
And I'm like, but why?
Well, next thing I know, I'mbeing put in charge of all three
ancillary services as an E4 overseveral E5s.

(58:15):
Wow.
And I pleaded with thecommander.
I'm like, sir, please don't dothis.
And he was like, no, we aredoing this.
You know how to run everything.
And I need somebody here that iswilling to do that.

(58:38):
And he says, I can't trust anyof my E-5s right now.

SPEAKER_01 (58:41):
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (58:43):
And I'm scared to death because I still have to
work with these E-5s.
And, but, so I didn't go, Ididn't deploy, ran ancillary
services until I think the last,the last six months of that

(59:05):
time, we finally got an E6 onboard.
And then, you know, I got told,okay, we're going to go ahead
and put the E6 in charge.
And I'm like, okay, thankgoodness.
Right.
You know, not that I was doinganything wrong.
Sure.
But it was just like, I...
It's a weird situation.
Yeah.
Especially when you're not anon-commissioned officer

SPEAKER_00 (59:28):
and you're effectively in charge of
non-commissioned

SPEAKER_03 (59:30):
officers.
And you're trying to get...
I want to say I had at leastfive E5s.
And you're telling me that ofthe E5s, five of them, you don't
trust it.

SPEAKER_00 (59:44):
Any of them?
And then why am I not gettingpromoted?
Yeah, exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 (59:49):
So

SPEAKER_00 (59:50):
anyway,

SPEAKER_03 (59:51):
so

SPEAKER_00 (59:51):
after

SPEAKER_03 (59:52):
that, I might be back up.
So before I left, I hadbefriended a good first-class
pediatrician.
He was a YF brother.
And we met in the gym.

(01:00:16):
And he kind of took me under mywing, kind of like leading the
path into bodybuilding.
He thought I would had someinterest in that.
And I did.
Actually, I was really likingbodybuilding.
I wasn't competing at that time,but I was really liking the
bodybuilding.

(01:00:36):
But besides that, he took meunder his wing and became my
mentor.
And here again, you know, Ireally wish I could remember
names.
But I can see him, and I can seeall the times that he helped me
through my first divorce.
Oh, my God.
That was...
That was ugly.

(01:00:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:58):
Our first one's never good.
No.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:00):
He helped me through that.
We were lifting partners.
He would always contact me.
Do you need anything?
I'm here for you, shipmate.
You know, that kind of stuff.
And I'd love the times that wewould go into the gym.
If one of us was, so we wouldalways work out in the gym off
days.
And I remember one time, Like Imay have told you and a few

(01:01:24):
other of our vets this story,but I remember one time I was
running late.
He had already started ourroutine.
And I walk in through the doorand he says something like, it's
about time you white crackershowing up.
And I'm like, what?
Is he a black guy?
He is a black guy.
Okay.

(01:01:44):
And so everybody in the gym, youknow,

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:48):
it's like silence.
Everybody stops lifting.
You know, he's calling me whitecracker and all this other
stuff.
And so I'm like, OK, all

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:58):
right, game.
All right.
So my reply back to him wasstuff like, all right, you
Kentucky Fried Chicken, BlackEyed Pete eating, you know, MFRN
chicken.
And everybody's, like, jaws areall dropping.
Yeah.
What's happening here?
What's happening?
And we're walking towards eachother, you know, like, with that
ugly look on our face.
Like, we're going to get readyto throw down.

(01:02:18):
And everybody's, like, steppingback.
And then we embrace and hug.
Like, hey, brother, how youdoing, you know?
And so we go over and startlifting.
And everybody's like, oh, myGod.
I thought you guys were goingto, you know, start throwing
punches and stuff.
I'm like, no, I'm not.
That's how we talk

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:34):
to

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:35):
each other.
That's how we talk to eachother.
But he was really good.
That kind of opened my eyesabout mentorship.
And then, of course, I got out.
But I only got out because Icouldn't get into advanced x-ray
school.
And no matter how many phonecalls I did with the detailer

(01:02:57):
and whatnot, they were like,well, you can't go.
And...
right now you're slated to gooverseas or on a ship.
And I was like, screw that.
I'm not going on no ship.
You guys told me and I've got inwriting that I was supposed to
advance x-ray school.
And you have, for the most part,have detoured my path a couple

(01:03:20):
of different times.
You owe me advanced x-ray.
And when they said no, I said,then forget it.
Then I'm getting out.
So I got out in March of 92.
I lasted a whole month and said,no, I got to get back in.
And so I joined the reserves.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:38):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:39):
And once I joined the reserves, I went to a
reserve center up in Tacoma,Washington.
It was with the 6th EngineerSupport Battalion, and I was
with a bulk fuel unit.

UNKNOWN (01:03:53):
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:54):
Not as

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:55):
a medic, though.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:56):
As a medic.
Oh, as a medic.
As a medic.
I'm E-5 now.
And...
And so I was pretty much thelead medic up there.
And I did that for roughly notquite five years.
And then I was involved with thesecond fiance, soon to be second

(01:04:22):
wife.
And then we got married.
And then I decided that I wantedto get back on active duty.
and came back in under what theycall the TAR program, which is
no different than FTS, which isfull-time support.
So TAR was temporarily activeduty reservists, which I thought

(01:04:43):
was the dumbest acronym ever.
Yeah, I think we call ours

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:47):
ARG

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:48):
or something like that.
Well, what's funny is that FTSoriginally was the Marine Corps'
full-time support.
When the Navy got rid of the TARacronym, they took FTS.
And the Marine Corps dummied itdown even more and went AR.
Active Reserve.
Active Reserve, yeah.

(01:05:08):
You know, they had to be, wecan't handle three letters,

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:11):
so we'll go with two letters.
Yeah.
Active Reserve.
That's what ours was, AR.
AR.
If you're a reserve, and thenARG if you're with guard.
Right.
So you're a full-timer, butyou're still with a reserve

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:21):
unit.
No, actually, so once you comeback on FTS, you're back on
active duty.
Okay.
They just want to have thatacronym of...
that you're full-time support.
So your reserve is now on fullactive duty.
So you're active duty.
Right.

(01:05:41):
The only kicker, I guess, wasthat I technically couldn't go
overseas anymore.
Really?
I could still go on a ship, andI can be stateside anywhere,
but...
That's like a...

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:55):
That's like a

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:55):
moneymaker.
I know.
That's

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:57):
perfect.
Well, no, I mean, I mean whatyou've got.
Yeah.
If you're, if you're a CONUSbound guy staying in the States,
that's perfect.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:06):
Yeah.
Technically it was.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:08):
Yeah.
So did you, is that how the restof your career were you

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:11):
in that status?
So I was in that status.
That's awesome.
So when I came back in, in 97,um, my wife at that time, we
just tightened on.
Yeah.
So now I'm stationed down inEugene, Oregon.
Okay.
And I was E5, struggling tryingto make E6.

(01:06:34):
And it just seemed like nomatter how many times I took
this damn test, I could not cutthe muster to make E6.
And, you know, there's thingsthat go along with that, but I
just could not make it.
So as an E5, I'm leading this...
the medical down there.

(01:06:55):
I'm still with an engineersupport battalion, but this time
I'm with a more of a bridgecompany.
And they did, they were actuallytwo.
So it was like they dealt withbridges, but they also were
doing bulk fuel.
Okay.
And love the Marines, but theseguys, you know, just...

(01:07:18):
if a medic ever wants to get thebest medical training, be with
Marines, because these guyscannot go without one drill with
no one getting hurt.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:29):
You're going to get some hands-on experience.
You're going

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:31):
to get some serious training.
And so through that time, gotsome great training, had some
great corpsmen.
And now as an E-5, you're kindof starting to pick up the
leadership stuff.
Even in that unit there, I had afirst class on the reserve side

(01:07:53):
component.
But he and I had this greatworking relationship, and I
really learned a lot from him.
But he, too, also learned a lotfrom me.
And that's kind of where, youknow, I started kind of seeing
the light a little bit like,okay, so this is part of being
that leader.
Mm-hmm.

(01:08:14):
Then I decided that, all right,what do I got to do to make my
next rank?
I cannot figure out why I'm notcutting the mustard.
So I decided, and I talked to mywife at that time about going to
pharmacy tech school.
Okay.
So got accepted and I went topharmacy tech school out in

(01:08:35):
Virginia.
While out there, I made firstclass, first time up.
Nice.
And I'd only been out there forlike, I think two or three weeks
and I pick up first class.
Well, that doesn't settle rightwith any of the instructors
because 90% of the instructorsare E5 or first classes that

(01:09:02):
just didn't make first class.
Here I am a first class.
So they can't talk to me the waythat they were talking to me
when I was just E5.
Very nice.
So I had a lot of, A lot oftrauma.
Went through a lot of stuff outthere.
That was another good and badexperience.

(01:09:24):
So I was going through, my wifedecides that, at that time
decides that she's done.
So I kind of got that dear JohnLutter type crap.
And I'm going through some majordepression issues.
And these, So having that rank,you know, I'm sticking up for my

(01:09:50):
class, you know, and one of theinstructors who, you know, a lot
of these instructors, they didsome things that by ethical code
should not be doing, right?
These are not things that youshould be doing in front of your
students, whether it's sayingstuff, doing stuff or making

(01:10:12):
comments about, and so forth.
It's completely unprofessional.
So they did this one instructor.
She did this.
She was an E5.
She does this surprise math testthat none of us knew it was
coming.
None of us had any preparation.

(01:10:34):
And I tried to argue that no onein here was prepped for it.
And you are basically screwingeverybody over.
And she started to getargumentative with me.
My only comment at the end, as Iwas walking back to my desk, was
that this was bullcrap.
Uh-huh.
Because it is.

(01:10:54):
Because, yeah, exactly, it is.
And that was my verbiage.
It wasn't, this is full ofwhatever.
Right.
It was bullcrap.
Uh-huh.
So she, now this time, the chiefof that program was on...
I think, leave.
And my two instructors that werein charge of our class, they

(01:11:20):
also were on leave.
So I have no one.
I am taking on technically theworld at this time.
They proceed to give me the RiotAct back in the instructor area.
Uh-huh.

(01:11:41):
To the point of that they, not acourt-martial, but they pretty
much wrote me up, and I had tostand in front of the chief,
listening to everything thatthey were accusing me of,
getting, I don't even know how Iheld composure, because I was

(01:12:04):
going through both sadness,because of what I

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:08):
was

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:09):
doing, and angered at, You guys have twisted
everything up so bad.
So my punishment and the chief,before he gives me the
punishment, he walks up to meand he stands right in front of
me.
Here again, no one leadership.

(01:12:31):
As the first class is readingoff all the charges, he's
looking at me.
And the first thing that hesays, he doesn't say it out
loud.
He whispers it.
Oh, wow.
And I'm like, like confused.
And then I started tearing upbecause I had this chief tell me

(01:12:53):
that he's sorry.
And then he actually started toshow a tear.
And I'm like, oh my God, we aregoing to freaking break down
here in a minute.
And I managed to hold, he turnsand walks away and sits down at
his desk after they get donereading all of it,

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:12):
right?
And...
Do they know what's going onwith your family life right now?
No.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:23):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:23):
No.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:26):
I try to

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:26):
keep that stuff

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:28):
personal.
So, he sits down, they get done,and he says, he says, HM1, your
punishment is I need you towrite up a three-page report on
each accusation that theyaccused you of, and then how
you're going to fix it typething.
Something to that effect.

(01:13:49):
So I did.
And I told my, so now myinstructors have come back.
And I told the one who was afirst class.
I said, I don't know that I canread this.
The punishment was also, I hadto read it out loud to all the
instructors.
Not the class,

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:09):
just the instructors.
The instructors

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:11):
said to my first class, they said...

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:13):
And how do you write that without getting snarky as

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:15):
hell?
Brother, let me tell you.
I pointed out every discrepancythat every instructor did to a T
to include women grabbing theirown you-know-what and women
talking gay, lesbian, and men.

(01:14:38):
saying snide remarks towardssome of my female counterparts
in there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:44):
Right.
Stuff that absolutely would notlie today at all.
Or shouldn't have been flyingback then.
Exactly.
So I'm writing it

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:53):
up.
And as I'm writing all thisstuff, and so if I'm going to be
accused of saying these words,these people need to be held
accountable.
For what they've said.
For what they've said.
This went on for three pages.
I had no problem with it.
So I'm trying my first class.
He says, can I read it?

(01:15:13):
And I said, sure.
So I gave it to him.
He says, give me about 15minutes and then come back.
I said, okay.
So I left and I come back.
And he goes, yeah, you're notreading this.
Really?
He says, let me take it to thechief.
And he went to the chief.
And then they called me into hisoffice.

(01:15:34):
And he was H-1.
He says, are these accusationscorrect?
I said, yeah.
He goes, he said, just read itto me right now.
Because he had only skimmed overit.
He said, read me everything.
And I did.
I read all three pages.

(01:15:55):
And he didn't have me stand atattention.
He said, just sit down and readit.
Start writing.
And he said, okay, we're done.
He says, we're not.
I will tell them that we're not.
don't have the privilege to hearthis.
Right.
And then he told that firstclass, he says, in fact, I

(01:16:16):
remember that they all gotcalled in to the chief's office.
And let's just say that theremaining three weeks were way
different.
I bet.
And of course, you know, Ifinally realized I finally got

(01:16:37):
out of my funk, if you will, andrealized, what am I doing?
You know, realized that my kidsare number one.
Got to be there for my kids.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:48):
Because

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:48):
honestly, just like probably with anybody,

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:52):
those

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:53):
thoughts get in your head.
And it's like, you know, I'mdone.
You know, if I can't have mykids at the time.
And I think, you know, at thevery beginning of anything like
that, everybody's saying wordsthat you don't truly mean.
Sure.
And then, you know, she wassaying stuff that pretty much I
was never going to see my kidsand whatnot.

(01:17:13):
And that was just put me in thatdownward spiral.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but so how many kids do youhave at this point?
So I have two.
Both of them are actually, Ihave my daughters get married in
September and my son and hisfiance had my first brain son.
Awesome.

(01:17:34):
This last year in October.
And both these are from yoursecond marriage?
These are from my secondmarriage.
The first marriage, we were onlymarried for barely a year, I
think.
I pretty much got tired of herdoing the entire town of Whidbey
Island.
So I got rid of that.

(01:17:56):
Sounds like my first marriage.
Second wife, you know, we weremarried for four and a half
years and just So things happen.
I know there was some stuff thatI probably should have handled a
lot better.
And then I would hope that maybesome things that she did, she
might.

(01:18:16):
Yeah, that's on her to figureout.
Yeah.
And then Mary, my current wife,we've been together for 21
years, but only married.
We will be 20 years this.
So I got to get over.
October.
Okay.
I was going to say, if you messthis up, I can

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:34):
edit it out.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:37):
So we'll be 20 years and we've had our major peaks
and valleys.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:43):
Yeah.
I think there's, unfortunatelywe've got to go through what we
got to go through to figure outhow to do a relationship.
Right.
Yeah.
You know, at least on our end,you know, so how did you get
through that funk, thatdepression, that dark period of
time?
Absolutely.

UNKNOWN (01:18:58):
It,

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:58):
Weightlifting got

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:59):
me back into it again.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:00):
That's what I was thinking you were going to say.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:02):
Yeah.
You know, it was one of those,like, what the hell am I doing?
And I'll admit, way back when,when I was 16, I did try to...

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:22):
Did you?
What was going on with you backthen?

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:29):
Dad

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:29):
had issues.
Okay.
Dad had to travel for work, andso that put a lot of onus on me.
With school, taking care of thefarm.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:40):
Right.
Yeah.
It just felt like the weight

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:48):
was just so...
Like I said before, you know,like my sister was...
You know, this straight-Astudent.
Right.
Couldn't do no wrong.
Couldn't do no wrong.
And when I'm getting B's andC's, you know, I get the riot
act.
And, you know, you got to dobetter.

(01:20:11):
You got to do this.
And if I was doing my homework,I got yelled at because I'm not
doing the farm stuff.
And if I was doing the farmstuff, I was getting yelled at
for not doing my homework andgetting better grades.
And I didn't know which way itwas up or down.
And I remember

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:28):
the

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:29):
first try,

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:30):
actually, really the only try.
Dad

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:38):
was, I think, in Montana working.
And I think something hadhappened.
I think it was at school.
Something happened at school.
I think it was the...
The jockey bully type kids, Ithink, triggered something.

(01:21:01):
And that was, I said, I'm done.
And I had walked up to dad'sbarn, what he would call his
fortress of solitude.
And then I went and found theshotgun.
And I literally had it in mymouth and ready to go.
And my sister walked in.
Oh, wow.

(01:21:22):
And she was like, what are youdoing?
I, you know, like said, I'mcleaning the gun.
And she goes, I've never seendad clean a gun like that.
And I'm like, I'm cleaning thegun on your business and just go
away, I think.
And so she did.

(01:21:43):
But her doing so was runningdown and telling mom.
And I had already started to.
The plan was foiled, so I hadalready started putting
everything away.
Right.
And mom, my mom comes up, andI've never seen her act the way
that she did.
It was a lot of yelling andscreaming.

(01:22:04):
What do you do to me?
Mm-hmm.
And I just, I think I just said,Mom, I can't take it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:13):
And this is like 1985, somewhere around there,
1984.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:18):
Right.
Yeah.
So he's 95-ish.
And so the next thing I know, mydad's oldest brother, Scott,
came out.
And he talked to me for a while.
Kind of put me out on ease.
And I asked him, I said, pleasedon't tell dad.

(01:22:41):
But he did.
Yeah.
He did.
And so my dad, he yells at me onthe phone.
and says that he's on his wayhome from Montana.
And so dad gets home like twodays later or something like
that.

(01:23:02):
And he doesn't waste any time.
We're pretty much up in the barnand we're yelling at each other.
I think this went on for likethree hours, a lot of yelling, a
lot of crying.
We didn't go to blows.
I think that after about threehours, you know, it was a lot of

(01:23:26):
hugging and it was a lot ofunderstanding.
And dad, from then on, I mean,he was still dad, but he was now
a friend that I knew I could.
That's good.
And trust and whatnot.
Yeah.
And what's interesting is fromthat, you know, I realized that,

(01:23:49):
you know, It's got to be thatlow that you really honestly
think that your life is just notthat worth it.
And that's kind of what I toldDad, too.
It's like, well, if I'm nothere, it's one less amount to
feed.
Right.
And that means you get to stayhome and take care of the
family.

(01:24:09):
Like I'm doing you a favor.
Like I'm doing you a favor.
Yeah.
And you can't look at it thatway.
No.
So then, you know, like...
moving on and going through mymilitary career.
And then, you know, with thesecond marriage.
So now I'm on my second divorce.
Right.
And I'm...

(01:24:29):
Career's looking up, butpersonal life.
Personal life is just going inthe toilet.
And I'm back on this trip ofmaybe it would be better if I'm
not here.
But then, luckily, you know, Iguess is you kind of that
epiphany bulb goes off and yougo, what?

(01:24:51):
I got kids.
Yeah.
And I'm not going to mean like,I guess, I'm not going to give
her the satisfaction of raisingmy kids by herself.
If that's what motivates you,then, you know, there it is.
So I got back into, I said,screw this.
I got back into weightlifting,starting to get bigger again.

(01:25:13):
Even my uniforms were startingto, I had to, of my size, got
involved with another guy thatdoes a lot of bodybuilding and
whatnot.
And we just, we went to the gymand we worked out like hours.
Every time that we had a moment,hours in the gym, just pumping.

(01:25:33):
And then when I came back home,I got to come home.
So after that event with thechief and all the instructors,
he actually said, I want you totake leave.
And I was like, but if I takeleave, by then I think I had
divulged enough about familylife.

(01:25:56):
He says, I want you to takeleave.
I want you to get things kind ofin order and come back.
And I'm like, but if I go home,I have to start all over.
And he goes, no.
He says, you'll pick up rightwhere you're at.
It'll be fine.
And I was like, okay.
So I went home.
So I was...
Motivation I picked up, I wasbigger and whatnot.

(01:26:19):
So I get home and I go to pickup my kids from the, or soon to
be ex.
And I'm walking in the house topick them up.
And she goes, Mike?
And I'm like, yep.

(01:26:39):
And she goes, oh my God, you'rehuge.
And And now all of a suddenwe're kind of cutesy-lootsy.
Uh-huh.
You know, like, you know, oh, myGod, this guy just, like, bulked
up.
It's interesting again.
You know, so we're kind of,like, on this friendly term, and

(01:26:59):
I'm like, yeah, I'm just here topick up the kids.
And I actually had anotherinterest anyway, so.
But it was good for me to gohome.
I got to see my kids.
I got to, you know, love them,say thanks to them.

(01:27:22):
Like, you know, I'm not leavingyou.
You're mine.
You know, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:26):
I'm

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:27):
not going to be a deadbeat dad and leave you in
this world by yourself in anyway, shape, or form.
So that was a promise that I hadmade to them.
And actually also at that time,I had another son.
He wasn't biologically mine.

(01:27:48):
While we were married, I wasstill raising him, treating him
as my son.
I wanted to adopt him severaldifferent times, but we'll just
say that other powers to bewouldn't let that happen.
But I made that promise that weweren't, or I wasn't going to

(01:28:12):
leave him.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:13):
Went

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:14):
back.
I did drop in where I was at onthe totem pole, if you will,
with the school.
Because I was behind this onesailor that was, he was from
Ethiopia, I think.
And he had come in, he joinedthe Navy.

(01:28:34):
And he was technically apharmacist, an actual
pharmacist.
pharmacist in his country, butcame over, joined the Navy, but
the best or the closest that hecould get to is a pharmacy
technician.
And he and I would talk all thetime.
I'm like, you are so smart.
I mean, obviously, becauseyou're number one in the class.

(01:28:54):
I said, but what made you, in asense, kind of step down and
become more of a tech versus theactual pharmacist?
And he was like, I always wantedto join the Navy.
And this was the closest that Icould get to it.
So I was like, wow, you know,just yet another kind of a

(01:29:15):
learning moment that it's notall that in a bag of chips.
If you're at this high echelonlevel, it's, it's what you're
doing with the, with the job athand and how well you're
performing.
And so anyway, I learned a lotfrom him and, and he, he
actually helped me to stay, youknow, in the, I think I

(01:29:38):
graduated in the top seven whenit was all said and done, going
through all the turmoils andwhatnot.
But anyway, graduated frompharmacy tech school.
And then as soon as I graduatedfrom pharmacy tech school, I
went and got stationed down atNEHJRB in Fort Worth, Texas.

(01:29:58):
Okay.
And as soon as I got down there,I had only been the HM1 or for
the department for less than ayear.
And then 9-11 was happening.
And when I was there, anothergreat mentor that I had, and I

(01:30:21):
do remember, this one I doremember, and probably because
he was the one that said, Mike,you're chief ready.
And I tried to tell him, thesenior chief that, senior, I
have to do three years before Ican.

(01:30:43):
He goes, no.
He says, we can do what theycall an early promote.
And if you have gotten basically4.0 on your evals and whatnot
for two years running and, youknow, they can

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:59):
waive the normal wait time.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:00):
Basically, they can waive when you can go in and
test.
You can test a year early.
Now, if you make it and cut themustard and become a chief,
you'll get paid E6 pay for thatone year.
But you got promoted early.
And I kept telling him, I'mlike, senior, I'm not ready.
I'm not ready.

(01:31:20):
And he's like, you're ready.
And then he said, I don't carewhat you say.
I'm putting you in for it.
And so his name is RonnieWright.
Actually, before he retired, ifI remember his last duty
station, he was the FleetReserve Master Chief of the

(01:31:44):
Fleet Reserve.
Wow.
And so, Ronnie, I'm going to saythat now, he mentored me before
he transitioned.
So right as he transitioned, Ijust took my chief's exam.
And the new senior chief, whenshe got on board, she asked me

(01:32:06):
how I did.
I said, there's no way in God'sgreen earth I pass this test.
Really?
And she said, she goes, no, youhave to have better faith than
that.
And I said, senior, I'm tellingyou right now, there is no way.
I said, they were asking mequestions like some of the, you
know, like when you take anexam, you think that the exam
will be curtailed around, Whatyou do.

(01:32:28):
What you do or what you'repotentially going to be doing.
Right.
So most of my training, x-rayand pharmacy and a little bit of
corpsman stuff.
What do I know on a battleship?
How far the round goes to hitthe enemy ship?
If it goes far enough to blow itout, then I guess it went the
distance.

(01:32:48):
Right.
Right.
I don't.
That's not my job.
Yeah.
But that's the kind of questionsyou're getting there.
There was one category where itwas all shipboard type stuff.
And I have not seen a ship in myentire career other than one
time floating back from Koreaback to Okinawa, Japan for a
week.

(01:33:08):
That was it.
That was my ship time in theNavy for 28 years.
So, anyway.
That's impressive.
28

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:17):
years

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:18):
and only a week

SPEAKER_02 (01:33:19):
on a ship.
That's awesome.
Good for you.
So...

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:22):
I'm telling her, there's no way a guy's green.
Anyway, so we get the resultsback.
They're coming back.
And she calls me in theiroffice.
So I think it's like a couple ofmonths.
So she calls me back in theoffice.
And she goes, well, you wereright.
And I said, I told you, senior,that I wasn't going to pass the
test.
And she goes, oh, no, you'rewrong on that part.

(01:33:44):
And I said, I'm confused.
And she goes, you barely passedby the skin of your teeth.
And so she showed me my scoreand you had to cut a 180 and I
cut a 181.
Wow.
And she says, you made it.
And I'm like, hey, this is BS.
And I'm like giving her back thepaperwork.

(01:34:05):
I said, you have some buddiesthat did this.
And she goes, Mike, you made youmade chief or you made the
board.
So

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:16):
what happens then?
So you pass the test, you makethe board.
So what happens then?
All hell breaks loose.
Oh, yeah?
So now you go through.
So now they call it

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:26):
training, chief training.
Okay.
Back in the day, it was aninitiation.
And because of all the hazingstuff that has gone over the
years, you know, those things,like when I went through, don't
happen anymore.
It's, it's true training.
I mean, there are some thingsthat, I don't know, one person

(01:34:50):
may call it hazing and the otherperson says it's good training.
Yeah.
It's that, it's that fine line.
But, but, so once I made it, Ihad to go through, um, uh, chief
training.
And, uh, um, you get called allyour different names and stuff
like that.
This is another, uh, testing ifyou will of my abilities to um

(01:35:17):
stand my ground and be a leaderand um know what what being a
leader is is all about so as aas you're going through your
chief's training there's there'sdifferent things that we do um
You're always PTing.
It's almost like going throughboot camp all over again.
Is this at a specific location?

(01:35:39):
No, wherever you pick up yourtrain or your when you make your
chief board.
So I was stationed at NESJRB.
So I'm going through the chain.
So it's all happening rightthere.
Okay.
So we start our training andwhatnot.
And I'm injured at this time.

(01:36:00):
I've got the worst case ofplantar fasciitis that I've,
I've just, I've dealt with someissues, you know, boo-boo owies,
but this is just like kicking mybutt.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just not in thecards.
Right.
Also, I'm still dealing with thedivorce from the ex, dealing

(01:36:23):
with, you know, if you want yourkids, you'll figure it out.
So, trying to get my kids tocome out.
I'm not trying to be You know, adad that doesn't care type
thing.
Right, a guy that just sends acheck every month.
I'm actually working another jobto make money in order to fly my
kids out to come and see me.

(01:36:45):
So just an awful lot on theplate.
Yeah.
So my two chiefs that are yourchief sponsors, you know, they
kind of kind of help.
have that fine line between thegoat blocker, which is all the
chiefs, senior chiefs and masterchiefs, that are on the

(01:37:05):
committee for that particulartraining, right?
Right.
And so they're kind of like thatbuffer, but they're still part
of, you know, what you're goingto go through.
And during this training, you'restill doing your regular...
I still have to do my

SPEAKER_00 (01:37:20):
regular job.
Your regular Navy job.

SPEAKER_03 (01:37:22):
Yeah.
I had to quit my civilian jobbecause there's just no way...
My kids are out for the summer.
And I've got all three of themwith me.
So I've got to take them to...
Here's an irony.
So I'm taking them to the Y fordaycare and day camp.
Or summer camp.

(01:37:43):
So they got to be there atcertain times in the mornings
and the afternoons and theevenings.
So I got to do all of that.
You're a busy guy.
Plus do my job.
Plus go through all this crapthat you got to go through.
To get promoted.
So...
Probably a couple weeks in,maybe three or four weeks, I had
this one senior chief that, Idon't know, he just really had

(01:38:07):
it in for me.

SPEAKER_04 (01:38:08):
He

SPEAKER_03 (01:38:11):
was a brother.
I don't know.
I'm not even going to go on thatline that that's what it was
because I don't think it reallywas.
I think he had an issue aboutpeople.
being on light duty.
And I think that...
Because your plantar fasciitisis going on.
And I don't think he viewed itas it was that big of a deal.

(01:38:35):
And I think it irritated himthat I put my kids in front of
the training that was going on.
So he would keep dogging me on,dogging me on, dogging me on.
There was this one day inparticular that I had to go get
my kids from my sponsor's houseto go take them to daycare.
And I requested permission toleave.

(01:38:56):
And I'm leaving.
But I didn't ask him.
I asked this other chief thatwas truly, really running the
PT.
Right.
So it's not like you're skippinga chain of command.
So I'm walking up the road.
So I have to walk up this gravelroad and then onto the main
road.
Because, of course, we can'tpark next to the PT site.
So it's almost like a half milewalk to where I've got to go to.

(01:39:19):
So I'm walking up the gravelroad.
And he's just chiming away.
He's saying all this crap aboutme being basically weak-ass,
this and that and the otherthing.
Then he does the ultimate...
Honestly, I probably should haveran back and throttled him.

(01:39:39):
He started bringing up my kids.
And saying stuff about them andthat their importance isn't
important and blah, blah, blah.
And now I'm on the road and I'mstaring him down.
And now he's kind of up thenotch a little bit, saying stuff

(01:40:00):
like, you staring me down, boy?
And I'm like, oh, really?
We're going to go with boy now.
Okay.
And then it's still with thekids.
It's me, the kids, me.
And then it finally, as I'mstaring him down, he says, just
get the F off of my road.
And I stayed there staring athim.
And he's like, didn't you hearme?

(01:40:21):
Get the F off of my road.
And finally, I walk.
I get in my car.
I go get my kids.
My sponsor and his wife are attheir house.
And I knock on the door.
And he says, hey, Mike, how areyou doing?
I'm like, fine.
And I grab my kids and loadedthem up.
And he's talking to me.
And I'm not responding.
And I just got in my car and Idrove.

(01:40:44):
Well, of course, that's notright.
Right.
So I drop him off.
I go to work, get dressed, getinto the pharmacy department.
And once he got there, he comesup and he pulls me off to the
side.
He says, what's going on?
Why aren't you talking to me?
And I said, you know what?
I made a decision.

(01:41:04):
And he's like, what's that?
And I said, I'm done.
And he says, what do you meanyou're done?
I said, I'm not going throughyour initiation, your training
anymore.
He's like, what happened?
And I said, it doesn't matter.
If that display is what being achief is all about.
Don't want it.

(01:41:25):
I don't want it.
I said, you know what?
I'm still going to make E7.
I'm still going to get paid.
And I don't care if you call mechief or E7.
And he's looking at me.
He's like, what happened?
I said, doesn't matter.
He said, why don't you go askyour fellow chief what happened?
I said, but you can also tellhim that I quit.

(01:41:49):
And he's like, no, no, no.
And then he got the other chiefover and he's trying to talk to
me.
Don't quit.
Don't quit.
We'll figure this out.
I'm like, no, go pound the sand.
So now they find out whathappened.
And then they bring the masterchief of the go blocker slash

(01:42:12):
the comedian.
Plus that senior chief over intoone of my sponsor's office and
talking, trying to talk to me.
And they're saying, we're sorry.
This should have never gotten tothis level.
Please come back.
And I'm like, no.
And that senior chief starts toapologize again.

(01:42:33):
And I said, you know what?
You can go back off.
Wow.
I said, you have screwed it.
And I'm done.
I said, this is not what being achief and a leader is all about.
This is not what awarenessanchors mean to me.
And your demonstration, I hopeyou all get in trouble.

(01:43:00):
And then I walked out.
Yeah, because that's not hazingwhat he's doing.
It's personal.
He's personally attacking you.
And it was.
And, of course, they're shittingthe pot right now.
Because at that time, I think wemight have been on that fence
of, oh, we can't call itinitiation anymore because it's

(01:43:22):
hazing and things that get donecan't be done because there's
health risks and all this otherstuff.
But I still feel that, okay,maybe the outside world doesn't
understand all that, but thatmeans something for us that are
going to go through thatprocess, right?
So anyway, so I left.
I go back to work.

(01:43:43):
Both my chiefs come back in,still pleading.
Dude, I let this go for anentire week.
They had every chief, masterchief, senior chief, come in and
try to talk.
Master chiefs that I didn't evenknow were walking in and asking
to talk to me.

(01:44:04):
Had my class come in and pull meoff the side and ask me to come
back.
And I still said no.
I held my ground for a wholeweek on this.
And then finally, I thinkRonnie, or at that time, I think
he picked up Master ChiefWright, called me.

(01:44:28):
And he basically, so he's like,Mike, you need to do this.
And he goes, and I'm so sorrythat you went through what you
went through, but don't givethem that satisfaction.
Right.
He says, you're going to have togrovel to get...
We had books.
You have to get signatures fromevery chief, senior chief, and

(01:44:49):
master chief on base.
But anyway, he says, you'regoing to have to grovel to get
your book.
What a process.
We don't do anything like thatin the Army.
So I went in.
I went into the goat locker.
And I groveled for my book.
I didn't grovel long.
Got my book back.

(01:45:10):
But...
The interesting thing after thatwas that every chief, every
senior chief, every masterchief, I don't think there was a
day that went by that not one ofthem came up to include the one
in particular, came up and askedme, how are you doing?
Wow.
Do you need any help with yourfamily at home?

(01:45:33):
What can we do to help?
And sometimes it was just like,hey, brother, are you having a
good day today?
You know, that kind of thing.
Right.
And I'm like, okay, so it tookme to do this.
Yeah.
To get them to kind of see.

SPEAKER_00 (01:45:52):
And how many guys do stand up?
Very few, probably.
Probably most will just take

SPEAKER_03 (01:45:56):
it.
Probably.
I think just about anybody wouldhave just either taken it or
quit and just quit.
Quit, period.
And never come back.
Never come back.
And I would, You know, some ofthe good things kept going on
from that.
I learned, you know, I continueto learn more about how and the

(01:46:20):
purpose about being a chief,about being a leader and
whatnot.
I remember one time we weregoing to the goat locker and you
have to go on the backside ofthe entrance.
And so we're going up and youhave to pound on the door and
you have to say, you can't sayHM1 anymore.
or whatever.

(01:46:41):
Back then it was slug so-and-so.
Yeah.
But, or I think we got to thepoint of, I think at that point
in time, because we were enoughinto the program, it was chief
select, you know, Morangreporting his order.
And then the door would swingopen.

(01:47:02):
What are you doing here, Morang?
What's going on?
I'm here for training.
You know, and then they, This iswhat they're asking everybody.
Well, everybody was screwing itup.
You know, they were saying stuffthat you'd think was legit.
You know, like I'm here fortraining here for Navy training
here for deep training here.
You know, you would think thatwould get them in.
Right.

(01:47:23):
But they're getting their buttskicked back to the back of the
line.
Think about what you're saying.
And they're not telling you whatthey want to hear.
No, exactly.
So you have no idea what they'rewanting, what they want.
So I get up there.
I do.
I knock.
He's like meringue report in hisorder.
what are you reporting for,Morang?
And I'm like, and I saysomething like, I'm reporting
for training.

(01:47:44):
Genuine chief?
I think it was a genuine chiefat the door.
And I saw his, like, you know,like, that sigh, and everybody's
like, oh, you know, like, hegoes, well, what kind of
training are you here for,Morang?
And I'm like,

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:01):
Army train, sir.
No, you didn't.
I did.
This time, Bill Murray did instripes.
You know, when he was on thegrinder and he's doing that.
Army train, sir.
And I had that chief next to thedoor starts laughing and he had
to turn away from me to try toget his composure.

(01:48:24):
Everybody in the mess laughed.
in the goat locker.

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:29):
We're just cracking

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:30):
up and I'm still standing there

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:32):
and I'm purposely

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:33):
wobbling.
All

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:35):
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:39):
hear is get in here, Moraine.
And then, and then they yell ateverybody, everybody just get in
here.
And I'm like, Oh, that did it.
That got us in the door.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,

SPEAKER_03 (01:48:53):
and then as we just kind of continue on, um, You
know, the tail end is a very,it's a 24-hour stay awake, you
know.
Suck fest.
Suck fest, really.
They had us go through so manydifferent things.
It just, I mean, it's a.

SPEAKER_00 (01:49:10):
So there's hazing, but they're actually training
you at some point, too, right?
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:49:14):
Okay.
Through the process, I mean,there are things that are kind
of disgusting and whatnot.
But I'm having fun.
You know, because I think it iskind of fun.
Yeah.
And you've got to take thatattitude or it's going to be
miserable.
It is going to be miserable.
And, you know, to me, even now,after retiring and I look back

(01:49:35):
to now it's called justtraining.
Even then, I still look at itlike, I miss that.
Yeah.
I miss that.
That meant something to me.
I'm sorry they...
A few of you view that ashazing, but it's not to me.
I view it as you're going to gothrough some shit.

(01:49:55):
Yeah.
You're going to go through sometrouble.
But the people that were beforeyou went through it too.
Right, exactly.
And if they made it, I can makeit, right?
Yeah.
So I go through and there was,you know, even then going
through that, I still had Chiefsleaning into my ear.
How you doing?
You doing okay?
And I'm like, I'm making it.

(01:50:16):
I got it, guys.
I'm going to make it throughthis process.
So about halfway, two-thirds ofthe way through, and I get this,
where's my ring at?
And I'm like, oh, shit.
What did I do?
You know, I've been doingeverything right.
You can't look at the chiefs oranything like that or genuine
chiefs, senior chiefs, or masterchiefs.

(01:50:37):
You always have to look down.
And so I'm looking down, and Ican hear the voices, and I'm
like, here, genuine seniorchiefs.
And I kind of knew who it was.
And he comes over and he leansinto my ear and he goes, it
needs you to come here.
I need you to help me with sometraining.
I'm like, uh, okay.
So I get up and he goes, hegoes, don't look up, look down.

(01:50:59):
So I'm looking down and we gointo this other room and we, uh,
I, I get told to kneel down nextto this other chief.
Now this other, or chief select.
Now this chief select, was chiefselected a year before, but
didn't cut the mustard.
Oh.
This can be a pass or failthing.

(01:51:19):
For him, if he doesn't make it,he has to go through it all over
again.
All the training.
Yuck.
So, I sit down, I'm right nextto him, and we have to sing...
I

SPEAKER_04 (01:51:31):
think

SPEAKER_03 (01:51:34):
it was...
I think we had to sing AnchorsAway.
Uh-huh.
And...
Um, he was just screwing up theverses and they were holding
them and holding them, holdingthem and just screaming at him.
So I'm right next to him.
And, um, senior says, you know,start singing.
And so we start singing and, ohboy, he couldn't even make it

(01:51:55):
past the first line.
And then I'm hearing senior doit again.
And I'm like, listen to thewords.
And I'm singing, you know,listen.
And so we start singing and hescrews it up again.
And senior gets, gets ready tostart yelling.

(01:52:19):
And I'm like, I grab ahold ofhis arm and I went, look, I'm
sorry.
I went, look, listen to me andmimic everything that I'm
saying.
I'm going to get you throughthis.
Just copy.
All right.
Ready?
and I'm holding his hand, and Igot like a death grip on it, or
his wrist, and I start thelyrics, and we start singing,

(01:52:42):
and he finally gets past

SPEAKER_00 (01:52:44):
that, like that singing.
And I'm sure this is a song thathe's probably sung a hundred
times.
At least.

SPEAKER_03 (01:52:50):
Right.
Right?
But he is struggling today, andwe get past it, we get past the
verses, and we finally make it.
And...
Before Senior could sayanything, I let go of his hand.
I put my hand, and I'm stilllooking down because we can't
look at each other.
I put my hand on his shoulder.
I'm like, all right, shit, mate.
We got the rest of this, right?
Let's go.

(01:53:11):
And then I think I went.
I had to go dump myselfsomewhere for a while.
And then the greatest thing wasat the end because, you know, I
know all the Master Chiefs andSenior Chiefs by now and are.

(01:53:32):
It's like a judge and jurything, right?
So the judge, I know this MasterChief, she is just freaking
awesome.
But she happened to be thejudge.
And I'm like smelling, I'mstinking, I've gone through
everything.
And I had to go up in front ofher because apparently they were
accusing me of making someaccusation that that men are

(01:53:57):
better than women.

SPEAKER_02 (01:53:59):
And I got to go plead my case that that's not,
you know, that's not what I saidor whatever.
And so

SPEAKER_03 (01:54:05):
one of my, one of my chiefs leans into my ear and he
says, he says, don't plead yourcase, plead something else.
And I'm like, okay, all

SPEAKER_02 (01:54:16):
right.
So now I'm kind of having fun,right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:54:19):
So I, so they gave her, A medical test apparatus,
which is used for women to seeabout nodules in their breast
tissue.
Okay.
And then they also had a maleone, you know, a genital, you
know, and she's holding thesethings up.

(01:54:41):
And she goes, what is this thatI understand that you think that
women are not as good as men andblah, blah, blah.
And I said, I said to her, Isaid, that, that is correct,
Master Chief.
Men are much better than womenany day of the week.
And she pounds that gavel down.

(01:55:01):
And she tells the chief that'skind of like the bailiff that I
need to go to the coffin andthink about what I'm saying,
right?
The coffin doesn't sound good.
No, the coffin was filled withice water.
Yeah.
So I had to go in there and singfor one minute, either Anchors

(01:55:28):
Away or, no, actually, I think Ihad to sing the, they screwed
with me.
I had to sing the Marine Corpshymn.
And so I get in there and thechief that was there, he's
talking to me and he's talkingto me saying, hey, just get in
first, slow your breathing down,settle down.

(01:55:48):
And then when you're ready,Start singing it and then I'll
time you.
And I'm like, okay.
So I get in there, I getsituated.
And I mean, it is like freakingcold.
And once I kind of got past, youknow, the mental stage part of
it, then I started singing.
And I actually, I got throughit.
I got through the whole minute,got out, And then I had to run

(01:56:11):
through this maze, low crawlthrough this maze.
When I came out, as soon as youcome out, I had to go in front
of all the chiefs.
Now we're in a hangar bay.
So you got all these chiefs andmaster chiefs and senior chiefs
in this hangar bay from theentire base.
And I got to run up and down theline telling them that I, I'm a

(01:56:33):
chief, I'm a chief pettyofficer.
I'm the next chief.
And then if they think that youwill, have convinced them they
ring the bell and then youthat's it then that's it good
and so I run down the line andthen I come back and as I'm
making my way back the bellrings and I knew right then and

(01:56:55):
there that that was I was done

SPEAKER_01 (01:56:57):
whoo

SPEAKER_03 (01:56:58):
I'm now now a chief and so I get get done I get to
this spot I can get to take offall the nasty clothes and mind
you We're all dressed up indifferent Halloween costumes.
And I was dressed up as the guyin Scream.
I was the villain.
And so I'm trying to wear thisthing.

(01:57:20):
And it's just hard to move inwith all the paraphernalia that
I had on.
Anyway, it made Chief.
And, you know, once I gotpinned, the senior...
couple of these Master Chiefsthat I made good friends with,

(01:57:42):
as they were shaking our hands,once you could pin and come down
the line, they'll shake yourhand.
All three of them not only shookmy hand, but gave me that hug
and with tears in their eyes.
And I had actually, you know,you're emotionally drained by
now.
So even I was, I was starting totear up and cry a little bit.

(01:58:05):
And that,

SPEAKER_00 (01:58:06):
that meant the world.
So, That's an important storybecause I think you're right.
We live in a day and age wherethey don't want people to have
to go through that kind of stuffanymore.
And it's a kinder, gentlermilitary.
And we don't do hazing anymore.
And hazing can be a dirty word.

(01:58:29):
But at the same time, it canbuild the team.
It can demonstrate leadership.
I mean, when you're kneelingdown next to that guy and he
can't get through anchors awayand you got your arm on him and
you're like, look, man, we'regoing to do this together.
We got this.
That's leadership.
Yeah, that's leadership.
You know, that's huge.
It's important.
So then after

SPEAKER_03 (01:58:50):
that, you know, now it's my career as a as a chief.
You know, and I always felt likeI was a.
a different chief, if you will.
And I got my first taste of thatrunning my...

(01:59:11):
So I was still there at NASJRB,still running the pharmacy
department.
And because during this timeit's also 9-11, we're dealing
with all that stuff, I'm theacting pharmacist as well.
Right.
So I'm not only in charge ofmaking sure that the right
medication is dispensed, I haveto run this department and then

(01:59:33):
anything else within the clinic.
And, uh, so I think we're doingfield day and, um, I told my, my
group, um, so I've been at, Ifinally am now getting paid as a
chief.
So, um, I'm official, not onlywearing the khakis, wearing the

(01:59:57):
gold anchors, but I amofficially getting paid for it
now.
So anyway, we're, we're doingfield day one day.
And we have to scrub or sweep,scrub and swab the deck, right?
And polish it up.
Okay.
So we're in the pharmacydepartment and I'm working with
my crew.
That shows leadership, right?
Yeah.
To me.
Instead of sitting in youroffice telling them what to do.

(02:00:17):
Yeah.
I'm in there.
I'm on my actual hands andknees.
I'm helping one of my secondclasses try to get some spots up
that were just, They weren'tcoming up with the scrubber that
we had.
And so I'm on my hands and kneesand I'm scrubbing away on this
one spot and I hear, Mike, whatare you doing?

(02:00:38):
And I look around because Ihaven't really given my crew
permission to call me Mikeunless we're really tight-knit
somewhere.
And

SPEAKER_00 (02:00:47):
outside of work.

SPEAKER_03 (02:00:49):
Yeah.
And I hear it again and I'mlooking around like, who's
calling me?
I look over by the dispensingwindows, and here are my two
chiefs that were my sponsorssaying, Mike, come here.
And so I walk out of my pharmacydepartment, and they're like,

(02:01:11):
I'm in my coveralls.
I'm obviously not wearing mykhakis, so I'm in my dirty
coveralls.
And they're like, what are youdoing?
I'm like, I'm cleaning mypharmacy department.
That's what you got them for.
And I'm like, yeah, fellas, canI tell you something right now?
It was great having you all formy sponsors, you know, when I

(02:01:34):
was going through initiation.
But I run my department how Isee fit.
Yeah.
And this is how I run mydepartment.
That's awesome.
And I said, if they see that Idon't mind getting dirty.
Yeah.
I mean, will I make it a habit?
No.
Probably not.
But when we need to get stuffdone.

(02:01:57):
I'm going to jump in and I'mgoing to help.
And when they see that, Iguarantee you, I will have more,
not only respect, but moreenthusiasm to help do the job
than you guys will with any ofyour departments.
I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_00 (02:02:14):
Yeah, I totally agree with that.
You know, coming up, through theranks in a tank platoon, you
know, you have four tanks, yougot 16 guys.
And when you have big jobs, likewe got to change the track on
all four tanks.
That is a major job.
And it's all hands on deck.
Everybody needs to be there.

(02:02:34):
And there were times, you know,before I became a platoon
sergeant, before I made sergeantfirst class, where I would see
the platoon sergeant woulddisappear immediately.
When it was time to do all thatheavy lifting and that hard
work.
And it reflected, you know,people would talk smack about
him.
They're like, yeah, this guy'sgood for, you know, he's out

(02:02:56):
getting donuts or he's out doingthis.
He said, well, we're out heresweating and toiling away in the
motor pool.
And I always told myself, like,when I get to that position, I
will be in the motor pool withthe guys.
I promise you that's where I'mgoing to be.
And, you know, whatever officework or admin stuff I've got
going on, that can wait.
Right.
You know, because that isimportant.

(02:03:16):
I think it, especially, youknow, for us in the tank
community, because you're a tankcrewman too.
When you go to the field, youmay be a sergeant first class,
but you're a tank commanderalso.

SPEAKER_04 (02:03:28):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:03:28):
So you've got to build that bond with the crew
and you've got to let them knowthat I'm here with you.
I'm going to suck with you

SPEAKER_03 (02:03:34):
all through this.
And the other thing too is, youknow, when we get into that
leadership role, you tend tosteer away from the actual work.
So who knows that job betterthan your troops?
Right.
You know?

(02:03:55):
So when I, if I, anywhere that Iwent, any job position that I
held, I always valued what myjunior sailors would tell me.
Or, for that matter, my Marines,too.
Because they're doing the workmost of the time.

(02:04:21):
And so for me, I don't mindjumping in.
And then if I'm doing somethingwrong, I don't mind being told,
you need to do it this way.
Oh, okay, roger that.
Move on.
And I think that was the onething that For me, you know,
see, I made chief in 2000 and...
It was 2005 or 6.

(02:04:46):
No, actually 2003.
2003.
So for 13 years before Iretired, I was E7.
And through that time and allthe different duty stations,
which really were reservecenters for the most part, I
still...
you know, I would tell my, myjunior sailors, you tell me what

(02:05:11):
you need and I'll make ithappen.

SPEAKER_01 (02:05:12):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (02:05:13):
Um, tell me where you need me and I'll be there.
Yeah.
Uh, and even when there weretimes, even when I got told
chief, we don't need you, I'llsay, well, but if you want to
get done and go home sooner, letme help you.
Let me help you.

SPEAKER_00 (02:05:30):
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
No, I think that's, that's superimportant.
Cause, You know, I definitelyhad guys that were I had one guy
that we called him Casper theghost, because as soon as there
was something to be done, thisguy would always disappear.
And, you know, when you're whenyou're coming up, you learn
which leaders you want toemulate and which leaders you

(02:05:52):
don't want to take anythingfrom.
You know, and I had I had a lotof examples of both.
And it sounds like you did too,like with this Master Chief,
right?
You know, a lot of good mentorsalong the way that kind of guide
you.
And, you know, you mentionedmentors a lot.
And I appreciate that because Ithink, you know, I've had some

(02:06:16):
good ones also.
I think, I don't want to skiptoo far ahead, but if when you
came out of the Navy, what ledyou into...
like with Veterans Connect andstuff like that, because
essentially you do a lot ofmentorship now as a retiree.

(02:06:36):
So how did that transitionhappen?
What did you do when you firstgot out?
You got out in 2016, August.
I got out exactly one yearlater, August 1st, 2017.
And I don't know about you, butwhen I first got out, I was at a
loss.
I lost that sense of purpose.

(02:06:56):
I lost the...
camaraderie of being aroundthose guys every single day.
And I just didn't know who I wasanymore, you know?
And, and I never, I nevercarried my rank, like respect
the rank.
I never did that, but you kindof get used to, and I hate to
say it, but when you are asenior rank, people treat you

(02:07:19):
differently.
People treat you, whether you'veearned it or not, they treat you
with a level of respect justbecause you're wearing this
rank.

SPEAKER_01 (02:07:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:07:27):
And then when you get in the civilian world,
that's gone.
You're not getting that anymore.
It's back to you have to earnthe respect before you're given
this respect.

SPEAKER_03 (02:07:36):
Yeah, so my last duty station was in Indianapolis
with a debt company or acommunication company out of
Cincinnati.
Okay.
And my detailer at that timesaid, Mike, you're going to a
detachment.
That's like the lowest company,you know, or lowest level.

(02:08:01):
As a chief petty officer, it'sgoing to be hard for you to make
any kind of rank if you're stilltrying to look for senior chief.
And I said, brother, at thispoint in time in the game, I
don't know what I'm going to do.
I think where I'm at with mycurrent life and life in itself,
I don't know that I want tocontinue so maybe make this more

(02:08:27):
of that theoretical twilighttour the transition and then
right off into the wind soanyway this reserve center so it
was in indianapolis we kind ofmoved up um towards uh so it
used to be an old army um baseand right around Fishers,

(02:08:49):
Indiana.
Okay.
And they've converted it now.
It's all open.
There's no enclosure or anythinglike that.
But it's a huge reservecommunity, if you will, because
there's the Army Reserve,there's the Marine Corps, Navy,
Air Force.
I mean, all these buildings areall like right next to each

(02:09:11):
other.
So anyway, being...
Being there at the new facility,I still was working out.
I was working out.
I would work out first thing inthe morning.
And then when PT went down ateight o'clock for the Navy, they

(02:09:33):
usually went out and playedsports, football, basketball,
whatever.
So here comes Chief Moraine andhe's running out with Navy guys
to go play.
And for ever in a day, Theseyoungsters, and I get to say
that, would say, Chief, how inthe hell are you doing this?
You work out for an hour, andthen you're coming to play with

(02:09:54):
us for yet another hour, hourand a half.
I'm like, I'm not going to letyou young whippersnappers beat
me.
Not going

SPEAKER_02 (02:10:02):
to happen.
No, it's not going to

SPEAKER_03 (02:10:03):
happen.
And honestly, I think even atthat time, so at Indy, I think I
was 45, and then when I retired,I should have been 48.
So...
Even in that age group, I waspretty much the oldest within my
unit and most of the Navy unitto include the commanding

(02:10:27):
officer.
Well, at least by, I think, twoyears, I was older than him.
So it always baffled him that Icould do all this stuff and
still go outside and play.
And still, I mean, I'll tell youwhat, even at that age, it felt
good when you get picked.
first or second for the team.

(02:10:47):
That never goes away.

SPEAKER_02 (02:10:49):
We're playing flag

SPEAKER_03 (02:10:51):
football today.
All right, I'll be out there injust a second.
All right, well, I already gotChief Moran.
He's coming out.
I got him.
He's on my team.
I play hard and I try to have agood time.
But anyway, so the answers seeall of this stuff.
And my last roughly year to yearand a half, I'm just trying to

(02:11:14):
battle in my head, you know,like, do I really want to pursue
medical anymore?
I've done it for, if you countall my volunteering time and
stuff like that, when I was inthe reserves, I was working at
the hospital, all that kind ofstuff.
I've been doing medicine for 30years.
X-ray tech, lab tech, pharmacytech, EMT, nurse, all that kind

(02:11:35):
of stuff.
And I'm trying to decide, Istill want to help people, but I
just don't know that I want todo medicine anymore.
Okay.
On that burnt out ridge thing.
Right.
So two petty officers came up tome, Petty Officer Brown and at
that time Petty Officer Gray.

(02:11:56):
She's now Goodman.
She married a Marine.
And at that time they came up tome asking for help, you know,
because they were barely cuttingthe mustard with their physical
fitness test.
And I said, I said, well, whatdo you want to do?
Do you want to work out with me?

(02:12:17):
I said, this is what I do.
I said, I guarantee you, youwill drop some weight.
You'll probably trim up somebody fat and, um, maybe just
maybe get kind of mentally intothat format of, you know, like
if nothing else, eating a littlebit better, a little bit

(02:12:37):
healthier, um, And just tryingto take care of number one,
because if you don't take careof number one, how can you take
care of everybody else?
Right.
So they were on board and theystarted working out with me.
And I'm sure that they willadmit, maybe not now, but
they'll admit that it was toughat first because my workouts

(02:13:01):
were no joke.
You know, like some of ourworkouts were not so much like
the Tabata, but the combinationof weights and cardio, you know,
back and forth.
But we were doing a lot of that.
And so anyway, people startednoticing and they started
talking about, oh, I droppedfive pounds.

(02:13:21):
Oh, I just had my body fatmeasurement done and I'm down an
inch.
And so next thing I know, I'vegot two guys coming up to me.
Hey, chief, you think you canhelp us out?
And you're doing this like afterwork?
No, I'm doing this in themorning before work starts with

(02:13:43):
them.
And then I do the PT with theNavy.
Okay.
I do my job.
So they're

SPEAKER_00 (02:13:48):
actually having to commit to an extra

SPEAKER_03 (02:13:50):
earlier, earlier hour.
Yeah.
Okay.
So one Marine and one sailormale came up to me and asked if
they could have me train them ortrain with me.
And I said, sure.
By the time...
We hit our third or fourthmonth.
I had seven.
Wow.
That's awesome.
One, one Marine, but sixsailors, all of them struggling

(02:14:13):
with their physical fitnesstests, their commander of the
reserve unit, the Navy's on theNavy side.
He actually pulled me in hisoffice and said, or asked me if
I was helping them.
And I said, yeah, they're comingin and they're, they're
training, they're training hard.
And, of course, you know, goodman.

(02:14:36):
He extended his thanks tohelping him out.
We'll see what happens when weget to their testing day.
So we trained for a completeseven months.
Testing day comes.
They all come underway.
And then when they actually dothe test, I was actually out

(02:14:58):
there motivating them.

SPEAKER_04 (02:15:01):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 (02:15:02):
And the two girls in particular, the ones that came
to me first, they were doingtheir push-up part.
And they were starting tostruggle.
And I knew that they had done alittle bit more than where they
were at.
That was numbers.
I actually got down on the floorright next to them.

(02:15:22):
And I'm just rooting them on thefloor.
And I said, do not give up.
You know you have this.
I mean, everything I could thinkof to motivate.
And they actually got, I think,maybe one or two more reps
beyond where they were endingoff with me.
And it was enough that everysingle one of them, other than

(02:15:45):
one, got outstanding.
The one that did not getoutstanding got an excellent.
But everyone went from basicallya satisfactory to outstanding.
That's great.
And when that happened, I wenthome to my wife and I said, I
know what I need to do.
Wow.
And she goes, what is that?
And I said, I need to get intofitness.

(02:16:07):
I need to become like a fitnesstrainer or something like that.
And I said, I'm still helping,but I'm not doing medicine
anymore.
I feel like in medicine, I gotto that point where I'm sure
every medical person out thereand probably even every dental

(02:16:27):
person too will admit somewherealong there path.
They get tired of hearing, oh,sniffle this and snuffle that
and boop-a-wow-ee this andboop-a-wow-ee that.
And it's like the same stuff andyou just you're just sick and
tired of hearing it.

(02:16:47):
You're probably dealing withmalingerers and stuff like that.
And you're wondering, who is thefrequent flyer?
Who legitimately has somethinggoing on?
Exactly.
And so I said that.
I want to do fitness because Ijust saw my seven that I've been
training, you know, drop weight,drop body fat, leaner, meaner,

(02:17:11):
you know, bigger for the guysgot a little bit bigger.
And then they smoked their,their physical fitness test.
And, um, that's what I want todo.
So, um, When I retired and I dida very unorthodox retiring, you
know, everybody does a ceremony,right?
Right.
Oh, everybody's got to bedressed up.
Nope.
I had a barbecue.

SPEAKER_00 (02:17:32):
Yeah.
Good for

SPEAKER_03 (02:17:33):
you.
I

SPEAKER_00 (02:17:34):
didn't play that game either.
I

SPEAKER_03 (02:17:35):
did not

SPEAKER_00 (02:17:36):
even show up for that.
Normal

SPEAKER_03 (02:17:37):
crap.
My Marines with my unit, they'relike, Chief, you got to have a
true ceremony, you know, gettingthe flag and this and that.
And I said, no.
Yeah.
I want...
Let me write off in the wind howI want to write off in the wind.
I want to remember you all as myfriend.

UNKNOWN (02:17:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (02:17:59):
Not as my military counterparts.
Right.
And the first sergeant, he'slike, I get you, Mike, but, you
know, you're going to look backto this day and you're going to
say, oh, I wish I had thisceremony.
And I'm like, brother, then youreally don't know me.
It won't happen, I guaranteeyou.

SPEAKER_00 (02:18:21):
It's been nine years.
Do

SPEAKER_03 (02:18:23):
you regret it?
Nope.
I do not.
I do not.
Everybody brought, I mean, I gotmy shadow box the same.
I got everything the same.
I got my medals, all that stuff.
Everything came out the same.
It's just that everybody was incomfortable clothes.
We did have a big, big assbarbecue.

(02:18:43):
Some had the nectar of the gods,if you will.
Yeah.
And my wife and I had a goodtime, you know, went on for
several hours.
And then even after thebarbecue, Mary and I had to
travel to Ohio so that we couldclose on our or get into her

(02:19:06):
sister's place and then startlooking for work and then
everything else.

SPEAKER_00 (02:19:13):
And was that in this area?

SPEAKER_03 (02:19:15):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (02:19:15):
actually.
Why this area?

SPEAKER_03 (02:19:17):
You're a West Coast guy.
I know.
So I promised my wife that wewould retire where her family
was at.
Oh, okay.
So her older sister andbrother-in-law and her two
nephews live here in Morrow.
And so the promise wasfulfilled.

(02:19:37):
And now the oldest sister andthe brother-in-law and their two
sons moved out from Californiaand now are living out here as
well.
So basically the entire familyis now living out here within
20, 20, 25 minutes max.

SPEAKER_00 (02:19:59):
Perfect.
Well, not to mention yourretirement check goes a lot
further here in Ohio than itwould back in Washington.

SPEAKER_03 (02:20:04):
For sure.
And then, and then when I gotout, you know, I got hired on
from the Y, um, kind of did, um,the basic YMCA training to
become a personal trainer.
Okay.
Keep talking.

(02:20:24):
And then, and then after I gotthat, I was still actually
working at a urgent care.
And, and the only reason why Iwas working at the urgent care
is because obviously I stillknow medical and I can still, I

(02:20:45):
can still, function as a medicalassistant and things like that.
And I needed to make money whileI tried to build my clientele.
Right.
And so I started building up myclientele.
Then I told Urgent Care.
I said, okay, I'm done.
After only being there for sixmonths.
Oh, that didn't

SPEAKER_00 (02:21:05):
take long.
And was it here at thiscountryside YMCA?
Yeah, countryside YMCA.
Actually, at the land in YMCA is

SPEAKER_03 (02:21:11):
technically who hired me.
I had a clientele.
I think it was up to aroundalmost 30 people.
No kidding.
Well, in the way that I wasdoing stuff, and I still would
do it, and it's kind of how Ieven run the program with Vets

(02:21:32):
Connect, is 30 minutes, 35 tops,is usually a good time frame of
workout.
Everybody's life is busy.

SPEAKER_01 (02:21:44):
Even

SPEAKER_03 (02:21:45):
if you are fully retired, your life is still
busy.
Right.
But committing to a 30 minuteworkout is doesn't seem.
Exactly.
Right.
So even though that I had a highclientele, most of them only did
30 minute workouts, but theywere coming like almost every
day.
Oh, every other day.
So I'm still doing individuals.

(02:22:07):
Right.
Right.
So did that until I built upenough clientele, quit the
urgent care.
which, like I said, didn'toverly make them happy, but I
left.
And then started out just doingpersonal training full-time, got
certified through ACE, so I'mnationally certified as a

(02:22:31):
personal trainer.
And then things kind of wentsouth at Landon.
There was a director that hadjust, just could not stand and
could not figure out why he wasjust not looked at in the eyes

(02:22:53):
of most of us that were there.
Um, and so I told my wife, um, Isaid, I, I, I'm going to
adventure on my own, you know,um, And she was worried, of
course, you know, to try tostart up my own business, my
own, being my own entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_00 (02:23:13):
What time frame is this?
How long ago is this?

SPEAKER_03 (02:23:15):
So this would have been 2019, I think, is when I
left.
I ended YMCA.
And the awesome thing was,apparently I know what I'm
doing, is...
Pretty much two-thirds of myclientele from the Y followed me

(02:23:38):
over, which was literally downthe road, to a place called
Custom Physiques.
This guy that runs that place,so basically I'm renting that
spot, but he really knows thestuff, welcomed me in, let me do
it however I wanted to doanything.

(02:24:00):
I mean, and Rob would alwaysgive me his input and stuff.
I still kind of ran things theway that I thought I needed to.
Rebuilt up my clientele back upto about 30 people.
And I thought, this is theshiznick.
I'm going to make some money.

(02:24:21):
But learned the hard way that assoon as I started trying to
creep up prices, I would...
lose a client here and therebecause those clients that
follow me from the Y are used tothose prices.
Right, they're set fees.
And they are not willing to goup.

(02:24:43):
Now, everybody that got trainedthere at this particular gym, I
can say that most of themprobably make a good strong five
figures, six figures.
Yeah.
So, So I started to get a littlebit of a dip and then COVID hit.

(02:25:04):
And then COVID decimated me.
I mean, because everybody is nowworking out at home, working out
outside, don't get next to me,you know, all that kind of
stuff.
People that don't want to wearmasks don't even want to come to
the gym where I had to wear amask because, you know, there's
always that threat.
Even though I never understoodthat.

(02:25:26):
because if I don't have COVID,how am I going to give you
COVID?

SPEAKER_00 (02:25:32):
I

SPEAKER_03 (02:25:32):
know.

SPEAKER_00 (02:25:33):
There's not a damn thing from that era that made

SPEAKER_03 (02:25:35):
sense.
So after the decimation, I justreally could not have any more
clients more than, I think maybeI had 10 left.
Through COVID?
After COVID.
Okay.

UNKNOWN (02:25:54):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (02:25:54):
And I had 10 left.
And I said to my wife, I said,you know, I think I'm going to
go back to the Y.
And she goes, why?
You didn't like working there?
And I said, no, I didn't likeworking for that director.
Yeah, that particular director.
I said, I liked working at the Ybecause I like the idea and the

(02:26:17):
mindset and what they are drivenfor, you know, with mind,
spirit, and body, which is stillhitting my at my goals.
And I mean, I don't mind some ofthe headaches, you know, you
just got to figure out theworkarounds and that's going to
be anywhere that you go.
Absolutely.

(02:26:37):
So there's going to bepersonalities everywhere,
everywhere.
And I said, so I think I want togo back.
So I had just had shouldersurgery on my, my fourth surgery
on my left shoulder.
And when I, back up toCountryside, because Landon
wasn't looking for any personaltrainers, but Countryside was.

(02:27:02):
And I went up and I talked toChuck, who at that time, or
still is, that went to hiringfor that.
I don't think I talked for threeminutes, and he said, Mike,
you're already hired.
And so I started back up, doingone-on-one personal training.

(02:27:23):
And I mean, I instantly got upto managing about 30-ish
clients.
And during that timeframe, Zach,who is the executive director up
there, came up to me and hesaid, hey, Mike, remember I
talked to you before you leftabout this idea of a veteran

(02:27:50):
program?
And I said, you know, so is thisZach's

SPEAKER_00 (02:27:54):
idea?

SPEAKER_03 (02:27:54):
No, it's actually, it's not even his idea.
Okay.
So I said, yeah, I remember ourdiscussion.
He says, well, do you want to,what do you think?
And I said, well, what do youhave to operate off of?
He said, well, there is a guythat comes, that came to the
gym, fire military, works as acivilian contractor up at

(02:28:18):
Wright-Patt, who brought thisconcept to Zach and said, Hey,
I, you know, wouldn't it be acool idea if there's some kind
of veteran program?
And the main thing was it's justa fitness program.
And, uh, so that gave me theguy's number.

(02:28:40):
I called him up and I said,what, you know, it's some key
questions answering, you know,like what's driving this idea
and so on and so forth.
He says, well, let me send youwhat I'm thinking.
So he sends me this PDF, and I'mlooking it over.
It's the actual instructionmanual for the physical fitness

(02:29:02):
testing for Air Force.
And I'm like, where'd you getthis at?
And he says, well, this is whatI had.
And I said, you do understandit's active duty, and this is
not going to work for the YMCAthing.
Right.
And he says, oh, I know, I know,I know.

(02:29:22):
But I'm just kind of thinking,you know, maybe there's
something that we can kind ofwork with that.
And I said, OK, all right.
I think I got an idea.
And so I went back to Zach and Isaid to him, I said, I've got
some thoughts.
Do you mind if I shoot from thehip?

(02:29:44):
And he goes, do whatever you gotto do.
I said, OK.
I said, first things first.
We need to do a survey.
of all the vets that come toCountryside and just kind of get
their input.
I want to know, you know, whatbranches that they're coming out
of, you know, what's on theirmind.
It's fitness, health, mentalhealth, camaraderie, all that

(02:30:07):
kind of stuff.
I want to know, do they have anyparticular interests?
And then we'll kind of go fromthere.
I can kind of start buildingthis program.
And So we worked on the survey.
And during that time, I'mtalking to my wife and I said, I

(02:30:27):
think I found my, my new niche.
And she goes, now what?
I said, but I said, but it'sstill going along me helping.
And I said, I remember my talksabout wanting to give back to my
brothers and sisters from themilitary.
And because at one point intime, I was thinking about

(02:30:49):
working for the VA.
And I wanted to be thatindividual that read over an
individual's medical history soI can say, all right, you rate
these things.
Sure.
This is what I'm finding.
Right.
And making sure that they get

SPEAKER_00 (02:31:06):
what they rate.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (02:31:10):
But so in this case...
You could have got into that jobeasily.
Well, I know I

SPEAKER_04 (02:31:14):
could

SPEAKER_03 (02:31:14):
have.
Yeah.
But I also know that I think...
give it two years and I probablywould have been bored out of my
freaking mind.
I think you would have been.
Yeah.
And so I told Mary about it andI said, I'm going to give back,
be able to give back to mybrothers and sisters.
And Zach presented this ideafrom this guy and we're going to

(02:31:39):
do these surveys, kind of getinput, and then I'm going to
start building this program.
And she was pretty ecstaticabout it.
She's like, well, this will...
you know, meet every demand thatyou have.
And I said, I think so.
So we go through, we get surveysdone.

(02:31:59):
We surveyed over 250 vets outthere that were going to the Y.
And honestly, camaraderie wasnot even number one.
You gotta be kidding.
Number, if I remember, it wasnumber five.
For me, it was number one.
That's what I wanted.

(02:32:19):
Right.
So five.
Number one was fitness.
Good.
Okay.
And then nutrition, generalhealth, mental health.
Then I think it wentcamaraderie.
And then there was two otherthings that I cannot think of
off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 (02:32:37):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (02:32:38):
And even I, I'm looking at this and I'm like,
camaraderie is not number one.
Right.
Wow.
Okay.
So we make the announcement.
We're going to do this program.
We only were doing a couple ofdays a week.
We kind of wanted to...
Zach wanted to jump in with bothfeet.
And I'm like, bro, wait aminute.
Let's test the waters a littlebit and see how we do.

(02:33:01):
So session one, very firstsession.
What year?
That would have been...
So if we're going to be fouryears old this year, July...
2021.
Okay.
That should make sense.

SPEAKER_00 (02:33:17):
Yeah, so I came in about two years

SPEAKER_03 (02:33:18):
after you started that.
Right.
Okay.
So 2021 July is when Session 1of Veterans Connect started.
Six vets.
I'm like, you've got to befreaking kidding me.
Where are all the vets?
Yeah, 250.
250 plus, and I'm getting six.
Yeah.
And our brochure at the timesaid, was a circle of vets

(02:33:45):
sitting down and talking.
Your typical, you know, woe isme, I need this.
Right.
So we're offering...
Like a mental health brochure.
Yeah, exactly.
So we're offering, we're doingsome classes, fitness classes,
and extreme limitations.

(02:34:07):
And then I'm trying to also dosome nutritional classes.
And then we had some mentalhealth classes.
And those classes rangedanywhere from 30 minutes to 45
minutes.
And you're bringing people in orare you giving the classes?
No, I'm bringing people in.
We actually had our owndietitian on, young male

(02:34:30):
dietitian.
I think he'd only been adietitian certified for maybe a
couple of years, but definitelyneeded work on.
given a class.
Then our mental health guy was aretired, I think he was a
retired gunny for sure, who gotinto the mental health racket

(02:34:56):
and is actually a therapist.
He was coming out fromTriHealth, I believe, coming out
and giving some mental healthclasses to kind of hey, well,
these are the top three thingsthat you all listed.
So here they are.
Here they are.
Well, 45 minutes of nutritionwas definitely way too long.

(02:35:20):
And this guy, just verymonotone.
And either you got the monotoneor he would do the clapping of
the hands, you know, and it wasjust a major distraction.
And he would get it all the waydown to the macronutrients.
Whereas most of my vets are not.

(02:35:40):
They're like, what are youtalking about?

SPEAKER_00 (02:35:42):
Do I eat donuts or not?

SPEAKER_03 (02:35:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:35:45):
And

SPEAKER_03 (02:35:45):
I have Lucky Charms.
That's all I care about.
And then the mental healththerapist, he too, he was trying
to keep it along the militarythought process.
Right.
Let's not make it too long of aclass.
He wouldn't go beyond 30minutes.

(02:36:05):
And he was always very carefulabout, you know, what doors to
open.
He kept it a little broadspectrum, tried to invite the
questions.
But this, even the vet groupthemselves, very introvert,
hardly asked anything.
And I'm thinking, well, thisprogram is going to go to shit.

(02:36:27):
You know, I agree.
So about halfway through, almosttowards the end of the session,
one of the vets goes, hey, Mike,I think I got an idea of why
maybe people are not interestedin your program.
And I said, why?
And he hands me our brochure andhe says, take a look at the
brochure.
And I'm looking at it and I'mlike, what?

(02:36:48):
And he says, keep looking.
I'm looking at it.
Dude, what do you want?
It's a bunch of people sittingaround.
It's vets sitting aroundtalking.
Mike, keep looking.
Look beyond that.
And I'm looking at it, and I'mlike, oh, now I see it.

(02:37:10):
No vet wants to sit around in acircle and talk about their woe
is me.
Yeah, you can do that at the VFWif you want to.
Yeah, exactly.
And I said, okay, we're changingthat.
So then we changed the brochureto more or less along the lines
of the brochures that you'reseeing now, where you're seeing
activity, you're seeing classesand what the program is

(02:37:33):
promoting and whatnot.
So as those changes, so then theclasses are starting to creep
up.
Now I'm up in the 20s and thenin the 30s.
And I think by the time that youcame on board, we were hitting,
into that 50, 60 range of vetscoming, coming through.

(02:37:55):
Well, why is that?
Well, now camaraderie is thatnumber one thing.
That is the most importantthing.
Whereas fitness is number two.
And as far as like generalhealth and mental health, I
think general health with our,group of vets that we have now

(02:38:19):
that are not so introvert, moreextrovert, then they come up and
ask questions, you know, like,hey, Mike, you know, I'm trying
to figure out how to trim off 10pounds.
You know, what do you think?
You know, what, well, what isyour diet like?
Are you keeping a journal?
You know, stuff like that.
giving them an advice of whydon't you take a journal and do

(02:38:43):
that for a few days you know tryto make sure that you write down
everything that you eat or drinkor whatever and then let me look
at it and I might be able to seewhere the plateau is at and then
what we do is we'll adjust thatplateau and see if it changes
anything and then if it doesthen great we write that right

(02:39:03):
and if it doesn't then we trysome other concoction um And
then when it comes to mentalhealth, I'm a firm believer now
that if, and it's obvious in ourprogram, I'm sure you've seen
it, just let the vet be a vetfor now, you know?

(02:39:29):
We have such a good group ofpeople in there that if you're
having PTSD issues or Vietnamissues or family issues or
whatever the case may be, justknowing that you have good
people in there that are thereto listen when you're ready,

(02:39:51):
that is really what I thinkmental health has to be
approached as.
You know, Jenny, you love her todeath.
She's a great person that lovessolicitive works to help out
down the road.
She's genuine.
Yeah, very.

(02:40:12):
When she first came on board,she wanted to be in everybody's
back pocket.

SPEAKER_00 (02:40:18):
I'm not going to lie.
It kind of pushed me away.
It's like, who is this lady?
What are you doing here?
Go away.
Sorry, Jane.
That

SPEAKER_03 (02:40:27):
was then.
And I remember that she, Iwatched that.
And she came up to me, and shewas even telling me, like, you
know, I really want to helpJeremy out, and this and that
and the other thing.
I'm like, Jane, back off.
And she goes, but, but, but,but.
And I'm like, Jane, look, let metell you something about vets.

(02:40:50):
You get in their space, and theywill get into that defensive
mode, and they will back away,and then it's going to be harder
than hell to crack that shellopen.
And I said, give them time.
You're like that grandma thatjust gets right up and wants to

(02:41:12):
grab the cheeks and justlovey-dovey and all that.
And that's great.
But you have to give them space.
And I think she sees that now.
And I've seen that by herbacking off.
Everybody that has decided togo, okay, I can trust this

(02:41:37):
person.
I can open up.
And that's what it's about.
Right.
And I've had a few vets in therethat, you know, it's like I had
that general understanding ofwhat you've been through.
Brandon, I've not been throughanything that probably 98% of
you have been through.

(02:41:57):
But I have a general concept.
And Having that, I can say, whenyou're ready, I'm here, right?
So a few of our Vietnam fellashave here recently in the last
few weeks have opened up sayingthat they have really

(02:42:18):
appreciated the fact that wehave this program and that they
feel like that they can talk alittle bit more, that they don't
have to hold that stuff thatthey've been holding in since
Vietnam for decades.
forever.
And I just remind them, youknow, trust me, I've not gone

(02:42:40):
through anything that you'veexperienced.
I've felt and have always feltthat it was a damn shame of how
America treated our vets.

SPEAKER_00 (02:42:49):
Yeah, we were not treated the same way as they
were.
We were treated much better.
than what the Vietnam vets were.
It was absolutely, it's probablyone of the darkest chapters in
American history.

SPEAKER_03 (02:43:01):
And I would agree.
But, you know, just to, and letthem know that we're here.
Anyone in here is here for you.
And if you need to talk, justlet me know type things.
So, and it's good because thenthat means my, my, I guess my

(02:43:22):
thought process of how to handleit is, for the most part,
correct.
Don't shove it down theirthroat.
Just let them know that it'sthere.
And then when they're ready,they'll come.

SPEAKER_00 (02:43:36):
Yeah, I mean, that's how it was for me, too.
I mean, I think the first year Iwas in that connect, I didn't
really talk much to anybody.
I kind of kept to myself.
I was very much into what thephilosophy behind VetConnect.
That's what drew me to it.
I think the very first thing Idid with you guys was the 5K

(02:43:56):
trail run.
You know, of course, Valerie, mygirlfriend, is a Y employee and
she's the one that told me aboutVetConnect and she bugged me for
a long time to get involved withyou.
And I would always be like,yeah, yeah, I'll do it.
Yeah, I'll do it.
And then we did that trail runand I was like, okay, maybe this
is something I'm going to beinto.

(02:44:17):
But yeah, for me, I don't knowwhat it is.
It takes me a long time to thawout around people and get that
trust.
And I don't know what that'sfrom because I don't think I
always was like that.
It seems to be like later inlife.
I'm more that way.
I'm trying not to be, but I'mmore that.
I've got to check you out for awhile before you're going to get

(02:44:41):
to know me at all.
You know?

SPEAKER_03 (02:44:45):
I did that with a few of the vets in the program,
you know.
I'll admit that, you know, inorder,

SPEAKER_01 (02:44:55):
I

SPEAKER_03 (02:44:56):
guess, to be my friend, I have to know you
first.
It's not just a hop, skip, and ajump.

SPEAKER_00 (02:45:04):
It's not like it was as a teenager or young 20s.

SPEAKER_03 (02:45:08):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (02:45:08):
Especially in the military.
You make friends fast whenyou're active duty because it's
like you're moving around everytwo to three years and you just
bond with folks.
You find out who likes the samekind of music, who likes to
party the same way you do, wholikes to chase girls, who
doesn't, whatever.
And those are the guys you drawto.
The guys that are most like youand then your best friends in a

(02:45:30):
week, you know?
Right.
And then in the civilian world,for me, it was like totally
different.
I isolated big time.
And I was never an isolationtype guy.
But for years I did.
And VetConnect is part of theprocess that has kind of allowed
me to kind of spread my wingsagain.

(02:45:50):
You know, it's been a godsend.
So you're not telling me becauseI already know, but talk about
some of the things thatVetConnect gets into beyond the
fitness thing, beyond thecamaraderie, like outside of the
Y.

SPEAKER_03 (02:46:10):
So like right now, so basically the path that I
want our program to go down is apath that is like a master hub
of any and all opportunities forvets.

(02:46:34):
And I would say that we're stillvery much in the beginning
stage.
So right now, outside of fitnessclasses, the things that we have
kind of partnered up with orother entities that we've
partnered up with.
So we know about MustangJourney.
They rescue Mustang horses.

(02:46:55):
They rescue them to domesticatethem.
And within that Mustang Journeyprogram, they help people.
those vets that struggle withmental health issues.
And I think that is the greatestpairing ever, because you've got
a Mustang that has never trusteda human, and then maybe a vet

(02:47:19):
that is struggling trusting,period, you know.
And then you partner them up,they learn to work with each
other, open up, and I'll evensay, and in in a sense, love
each other, get those feelingsout there that both the horse

(02:47:41):
will have a trust andunderstanding of humans, and
then hopefully that vet can getdown that path of righteousness
to good health, you know,mentally, spiritually, and
physically.
I

SPEAKER_00 (02:47:54):
think equine therapy is amazing, and it works in a
way that I just...
Couldn't wrap my head arounduntil I met a woman.
Her name's Julie.
She used to do equine therapywith veterans for PTSD type
stuff.

(02:48:15):
And she talked about how, andwe're talking about groundwork
with horses, not necessarilyriding them or anything like
that, just grooming them andgetting to know them.
And she talked about how a lotof the veterans never been
around a horse before.
And they're so present.
They're so in the momentbecause, you know, they're a

(02:48:36):
little bit on guard.
You got this, you know, six, 700pound animal that's, you know,
that you're working with.
And she's like, just having thembe so present and so right there
makes a huge difference.
And these guys would keep comingback for more.
And, you know, and I've workedwith her a little bit with her

(02:48:59):
horses that she has.
And it is.
There's something about it.
There's something about it,working with a horse that just
kind of allows you to let yourhair down a little bit.
Not that I have any hair to letdown, but it allows you to just
kind of relax.

SPEAKER_03 (02:49:12):
And the other neat thing with his program is that
Troy, he's a retired Air Force,is that It's not just strictly
geared to vets.
Family can come out there too.
And they have, they havefamilies or people that come out

(02:49:35):
and volunteer.
They're not even military, butthey love to be around horses.
So, I mean, you can be what theycall like an aid that helps to
feed water and clean out thepens and whatnot.
And then you can actually gothrough, I believe it's a 16
week period.
horse training program, andthey'll train you how to handle

(02:49:57):
the horses.
Oh, wow.
So it's not just totally strictto the vets, but that is their
focus, is to try to help outvets and to try to save these
horses by domesticating them.
And the neat thing is, is thatwhen that horse becomes
domesticated, it's not justgoing to go to a farm family in

(02:50:24):
the state of Ohio, they shipthem all over throughout the
United States.
So I think that's pretty cool.
Yeah, that's awesome.
And then we have one of our ownvets that does the buckeye fly
fishing.
It too is another program thathelps those vets struggling with
mental health issues.

(02:50:45):
You get to learn how to flyfish.
Um, and they do like littleexcursions, whether it's a day,
day excursion or weekend,whether it's in the middle of
the week or anything like that,but they do the excursions.
Um, Brent does a, does awonderful job and, you know,
he's, I guess you could say he'sstill in that relaunching

(02:51:11):
process of this program.
Um, I think he's only been at itnow a little over a year since
being a part of Vets Connect.
And just like with anything,even, I can even say that with
Vets Connect too, you know, yougot your peaks and valleys as
far as, you know, attendance,but hopefully, you know, as I

(02:51:35):
continue to keep promoting VetsConnect, you know, he gets
people in and that's, Again,that's what I mean about being
that hub.
Because not everybody's in aboutfitness.
Right.
But if you love horses, I've gota program for you.
If you're into fishing.
If you're into fishing, I've gota program for you.
Another one that hopefully weget something locked down.

(02:51:56):
So this Friday I meet with thiscouple, both retired military.
I believe one's Army, one'sMarine Corps.
And they run a program calledMission Hike.
And it's just what it is.

(02:52:16):
It's a hike, but it's more oflike a nature hiking type
adventures.
But here again, they're also,they kind of help with that
mental health issue.
But it's a lot of bringing youcloser to God.
Yeah.
You know, that faith a littlebit.
But what they're promoting now,we're trying to see where I can

(02:52:42):
fit in and help out or make it apart of our program, is this
thing called Reboot Recovery,which, you know, I brought just
something so I can remember.
But it's, yeah, it is a 12-weeklong faith-based peer course.

(02:53:02):
And basically...
They're trying to help thosevets and family to handle
issues, handle issues from thepast and then handle issues that
are going on now and how tohandle things moving forward.
That's fantastic.
And it's called Reboot Recovery.

(02:53:22):
And I'm like, I'm all on board.
I can't wait to find out.
what it is that they want to doand how we can be this partner
partnership.
There's another group out there.
Um, I pretty much send out thenews flyers, but, um, they do a
lot of kayaking.
And in fact, um, Friday, theit's Friday, the 30th of May,

(02:53:47):
they're doing a bed flow.
Yeah.
Um, and I'm trying to figure outa way, you know, whether it's
through their pro, um, theirthing, their program, or if it's
maybe somebody within there thatwe can get a veteran program
that just does some kayakingadventures.

(02:54:09):
It doesn't have to be spiritualor You know, like we paddle for
a little while, we go to shoreand we, you know, we talk about
mental health issues type thing.
It could just be nothing morethan a fun day, a fun day and
let's go down the river.
Maybe stop for something to eatat some point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just BS for a little bit.

(02:54:29):
Kind of like what our, our gettogethers that we do every other
month.
And that's the other thing too,you know?
So these programs trying to getin to continue to grow and, our
get-togethers that we do everyother month, whether it's a
breakfast, a barbecue, a lunch,camaraderie, camaraderie,

(02:54:52):
camaraderie.
And then, you know, I just wantto keep building or bringing in
programs.
My ultimate dream, I just, inall honesty, I just got to
figure out how to compute andcalculate the numbers, but like
a couple of events that I'veattended in the surrounding

(02:55:15):
counties, they do things calledlike my favorite, I shouldn't
say favorite one, but it's theone that I feel most humble
about.
It's the one up in Columbus.
It's the Columbus Stand Down.
And so what they do, thisgentleman has been doing it for
I think seven years now.

(02:55:37):
And so what he does is a standdown for those at need, at risk.
I mean, if you want to labelthem as homeless, that's pretty
much what they are.
But I believe in what he saysabout using the terminology
homeless, homeless for many, ifnot every veteran means failure.

(02:55:57):
And so we try to just use theterm at need, at risk.
But What they do is they do thismassive stand down that provides
clothing, shoes, coats, hats, ahaircut, food.
They do set them up in there.

(02:56:20):
I've seen medical and dental inthere.
And then they have other...
Do they have a lot of peoplethat attend?
So...
This last year, I still kind ofget the reports of what they
have had go through there.
So the two years that Iattended, minus last year, they

(02:56:41):
averaged 450 to 500 at need, atrisk veterans.
Wow.
This past year, he told me thatthey saw 650 men and women.

SPEAKER_00 (02:56:57):
You know, that's bittersweet.
It's good.
But at the same time, it'stragic that there's that many.

SPEAKER_03 (02:57:02):
Right.
That means that the year beforeto last year, you increased 200
more veterans that arepotentially on the streets or
near on the street.
Wow.
Living.
Yeah.
In the Columbus area.
In the Columbus area.

SPEAKER_00 (02:57:21):
Is this through the YMCA also?

SPEAKER_03 (02:57:23):
No, this is not.
And that...
You know, saying that, that'salso the, I don't know, maybe it
is kind of the end goal, is to,you know, I want to provide, I
want to be able to provide.
So Warren County does not have astandout.

UNKNOWN (02:57:45):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 (02:57:46):
All the surrounding counties have some form of stand
down or however they want tolabel or name it, but it does
the same thing, providessomething for those that need at
risk.
Somehow Warren County beingcircled, encircled with all
these other events like thisdoes not truly have one that

(02:58:06):
goes down.
So I would like to try to makethat happen.
Problem is just trying to figureout how many of those on the
census report are truly at need,at risk.
And then where do you teeter onthat line?
You know, they may not be on thestreet, but they are Barely

(02:58:30):
living,

SPEAKER_00 (02:58:30):
paid in, paycheck to paycheck.

SPEAKER_03 (02:58:32):
Standard housing.
Exactly.
You view that as at need, atrisk.
I mean, it depends on theperson, but if it's me,

SPEAKER_00 (02:58:40):
sure.

SPEAKER_03 (02:58:40):
Yeah, why not?
I mean, if I'm strugglingpaycheck to paycheck in your
event, let me try to help you.
What do you need?

SPEAKER_00 (02:58:48):
Right, because you're certainly at risk because
if something happens to one ofthose paychecks, you're one
paycheck away from being on thestreets.

SPEAKER_03 (02:58:55):
Exactly,

SPEAKER_00 (02:58:55):
right.

SPEAKER_03 (02:58:56):
So that, that, and then...
It would be nice that we can tryto get all these whys that are,
and as I view it, are sistercompanies on board with running
some kind of Veterans Connect

SPEAKER_00 (02:59:13):
program.
I totally agree.
I

SPEAKER_03 (02:59:16):
can't tell you how many times I go out to promote
our program, and I'm atdifferent sites like Springboro,
Cincinnati, Mason, Columbus,Dayton.
I mean, all around.
And I get the vets themselvesthat say, well, is this at my

(02:59:36):
local Y?
No, it's only down atCountryside and Landon.
Well, how do we get it at our Y?
Well, here's my car.
Take it to them and tell them togive me a call.
You need somebody

SPEAKER_00 (02:59:48):
like

SPEAKER_03 (02:59:49):
a

SPEAKER_00 (02:59:49):
Mike Morang up there that's going to do it.

SPEAKER_03 (02:59:52):
And then we've had other Ys that have intermingled
with the executive director orthis director or that director
out of our own life at thoseconventions and whatnot that are
fairly close by.
And it's the typical, oh, yeah,yeah, yeah, it sounds great.
Yeah, let's do that.

(03:00:12):
Let's see if we can get it towork.
And then nothing.
No follow-up.
No follow-up.
Yeah.
We even, so when we got that$2,500 grant, when we were one
of three programs that werehonored by um oh shoot i already
forgot their name um somethingfit organization anyway they

(03:00:35):
they were giving out these umkind of like a grant of twenty
five hundred dollars for um aprogram that and these are this
is nationwide

SPEAKER_00 (03:00:45):
nationwide nationwide the veterans connect
with we were one of three one ofthree nationwide that's huge

SPEAKER_03 (03:00:53):
right there yeah so Shortly after that announcement
that they strained, then I got acall from a director out there
in Iowa from a YMCA.
And she talked to me about ourprogram and what it is that I'm
doing.
And I told her and she's like,oh, wow, you are doing an awful

(03:01:18):
lot.
Yeah.
And I said, well, yeah.
Yeah.
I said, it's definitely grown.
Yeah.
And he goes, well, do they haveto be a veteran in order to run
a program?
And I said, well, if you wantthe vets to come in, I would say
I would at least have a vet onboard that's at least doing the

(03:01:43):
classes.
If you need to be the sayer orthe one that is the head cheese
mow, okay, but You got to haveat least one bed leading the
way.
You kind of got to.
And if you don't, it's just notgoing to work.
Right.
Now it's just connect.

SPEAKER_01 (03:02:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:02:06):
We're just connecting.

SPEAKER_01 (03:02:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:02:07):
And she's like, well, how much did it cost to
get going?
And I said, honestly, that firstyear, I said, I think we only
had maybe five or$6,000 that wasallotted to us.
And I said, and now we're upabove 10.
You know, I think this past yearwe managed to get 12.

(03:02:31):
And I said, and that's thething, is if it continues to
grow, you're going to requestmore money.
And hopefully those donors, youknow, if you are the same like
any other Y that's out there,there are programs or campaigns
that are getting in.

(03:02:51):
money from donors andsponsorships and stuff like that
because the why is a 501c so ifthey're getting in this money
then the more that you makebecause the more you're being
seen then you shouldn't have aproblem i understand that
initial get up and go um but Ifyou could figure out a way just

(03:03:16):
to come up with just a fewthousand dollars, I think you
can get this going.
And you just got to do a survey.

SPEAKER_00 (03:03:22):
Yeah, you're going to have the right guy, too.
You got to give yourself somecredit here, Mike, because, I
mean, you're a go-getter.
You know, you get shit done.
And I know you probably do a lotof stuff that you're not billing
the Y for outside of the Y.
Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
But, you know...

(03:03:42):
you're really getting after it.
And I think you got to have thatkind of mentality too.
I think that's super important.
You know, you can't just be aguy that comes in and punches a
time clock.

SPEAKER_03 (03:03:52):
No.
And I will say that if anybodydecides that, especially a
veteran decides that they wantto start up a program, whether
it is Veterans Connect and youseek my help and our help and,
and, That's the other thing,too, is I do try to make sure

(03:04:15):
that in any and allacknowledgements that we get,
yeah, maybe I'm the one that'sreceiving it, but it's us that
are receiving it.
I've always been that waythrough my career in the
military and even now.
Walk your life with humility.

(03:04:36):
Right.
I mean, I...
I can say, sure, I may be theone that's going out there and
getting it, but if I don't haveyou guys, there still isn't
nothing here.
And with you, with my veteranbrothers and sisters always
coming back, whether it's forfitness classes, the

(03:04:58):
camaraderie, or the otherprograms, and staying involved,
it's even just coming in andhaving fun two hours every other
month and eating some good food,then it's all well worth it.
But I think that whoever it ishas to be that vet that is that

(03:05:21):
go-getter, is willing to go outthere and try to make shit
happen.
And like right now, I am.
I'm trying to figure out what isit that I got to do to get other
YMCAs on board?

(03:05:41):
Is it like, and we're ponderingthis right now, do we as maybe
become that hub that, you know,like with grants and stuff like
that, maybe we figure out a wayto bring in that income or that
meaning that donor, thedonations and the sponsorship

(03:06:03):
stuff, but we bring in thatmoney.
that we can distribute as agrant.
Like, okay, Mason, I don't know.
I can't remember if the Y istruly in Mason or not.
I think it's just the reccenter.
But anyway, Mason, you're onboard doing the vets program.

(03:06:25):
You got your guy or gal.
Yes, we do.
We just need the money.
Here's a grant, a grant to getyou guys going.
You're going to run VeteransConnect out of your Y.
I will come out and help you getit rolling.
And then once it's rolling...
I can certainly see thathappening.
Once it's rolling, you run it.

(03:06:47):
I'll, in a sense, oversee it.
Yeah.
We've had wives that have said,well, I don't know that I want
to call it Veterans Connect.
You don't have to.
You can call it whatever youwant.
And I'll still do my part inhelping you to get it up and
running.
But just know that if you don'tcall it the Veterans Connect, my

(03:07:12):
time and your help will kind ofbe limited because you're
calling it something different,which means you're

SPEAKER_00 (03:07:22):
on your own.
Yeah, what is your goal at thatpoint?

SPEAKER_03 (03:07:25):
Yeah, and that's the other thing, you know, when I
try to get the...
answer out of them is what isyour goal?
Like, you know, what do you see?
Right.
You know, are you a typical gymthat is looking to just make
money?
Yeah.
Or are you a gym that wants tokind of do something for the

(03:07:47):
community?
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (03:07:48):
Which is what this is now.
Yeah.
I mean, I initially came in forthe workouts, you know, and you
can speak on this, but I come inMonday, Wednesday and Friday.
We start to work around workoutaround 1030 and we're usually
done by 1115.
And the workouts are it doesn'tmatter what age you are.

(03:08:11):
We're all doing the sameexercise.
You know, there's substitutionsfor for folks that can't get
down on the ground or thingslike that.
But we tailor the workouts toourselves by choosing what
weights to use.
or how many reps we're going todo when it's a kibada or

(03:08:31):
something like that.
And my fitness level todaycompared to two years ago is
night and day different, nightand day different.
And it's just from doing yourprogram.
I don't really do anythingoutside of VetConnect.
So that's what got me going was,and then I think it's, Important

(03:08:53):
to mention, too, that with yourprogram, I don't have to be a
member of the YMCA to attend.

SPEAKER_03 (03:08:59):
And our program is free for every veteran, and you
don't have to be a Y member tojoin.
And I would say that of thecurrent rough 50 to 60 that come
every session, two-thirds ofthem are not Y members.
Right.
And I like that.

(03:09:23):
For me, and I know I've told mybosses this, I'm not out to
recruit membership.
That's not my focus.
But I think it happens, though.
Yeah, I mean, it...
Without you recruiting it.
Right.
If you come in, if you're a vet,and I say, hey, I got this
program, blah, blah, blah.
You know, we do these fitnessclasses, this and that, and the
other thing.
If you, on your own, after goingthere, think, you know what, I

(03:09:48):
like this gym, I like theatmosphere, I want to become a
member, then that's on you.
Right.
Nobody's pushing it.
What I like to do, and I've comeacross several vets this way,
where, well, I have to join agym.
No, you don't.
Come do my program.

(03:10:11):
If you like it and don't want todo a membership where you have
to pay a monthly fee, thendon't.
you're going to get your workout.
You're going to boost yourmorale because you're around
other vets.
You're hanging out with ordealing with your camaraderie.

(03:10:32):
And

SPEAKER_00 (03:10:33):
you're helping your mental health.
Doing physical exercise is oneof the most important things you
can do for mental health.
I have found that.
It's helped me tremendously.
I think the mind-body-spiritpiece of the ymca is very true i
also think diet sleep andexercise are a trifecta that i

(03:10:56):
need to be aware of to be in agood physical mental condition
on a daily basis you know all ofthis stuff's important

SPEAKER_03 (03:11:05):
every every bit of it is important um so yeah it's

SPEAKER_00 (03:11:10):
i

SPEAKER_03 (03:11:11):
I don't try for memberships.
I don't look at that.
I look at what can I better theperson at, and then within that,
and because you mentioned aboutthe age gap, I mean, our
youngest is, I think, actuallynow, if she commits, which
sounds like she will be, so ouryoungest will be 32, and our

(03:11:36):
oldest is 87.
Right.
And then you're right about, youknow, substitution type
exercises and things of thatnature.
I'm not looking for, can youbench press 50 pound dumbbells,
you know, or whatever.
I'm looking, can you move?
Will I, will I challenge you?

(03:11:58):
Sure.
I will challenge you.
I will, I will always see if youcan just upgrade just a little
bit, whether it's, can I get anextra rep or two, or can I go up
another pound or two, you know,Can I go an extra minute?
And it's interesting, you know,like with a lot of you in there,

(03:12:19):
when we're dealing or dealingwith a fitness class, you know,
I think every session I getfolks asking, well, can we do a
workout routine that kind ofhelps us to show progress and
whatnot?
And I always come back and say,you do understand that every

(03:12:39):
workout is a progressiveprocess.
workout.
Just because it may be calledsomething different doesn't mean
that you do your chest press anydifferent.
Right.
You know, if today it could be aTabata and tomorrow it could be
a, let's say, an AMRAP, you'restill going to move the same way

(03:13:02):
and the repetitions may be alittle bit different, but if
your goal is I usually will comeback and say, first, you need to
set up a goal.
What is your goal?
If your goal is just to behealthy and being able to
exercise, then if you stayedwith one pair of dumbbells

(03:13:27):
throughout all workouts in yourbody, if your goal is to get
strength, then maybe you want totry to increase weights as you
go along, and if you're Bold isfor endurance and stuff like
that.
Maybe you keep your weights alittle bit lighter.
You can go for more repetitionand of that nature.

(03:13:48):
But you can tailor it.
You can tailor it and you cansee your progression.

SPEAKER_04 (03:13:53):
With

SPEAKER_03 (03:13:54):
that said, you have to write some things down.
Yeah.
And that's kind

SPEAKER_00 (03:14:00):
of what I do.
Yeah.
You know, I...
In the Army, we did...
primarily body weight exercises.
Um, that's why, you know, whenyou'll say we're doing 20
pushups, for instance, most timeI'll just do chest press with
dumbbells because I've done morepushups in my lifetime than any

(03:14:22):
human being should ever have todo.
And I hate them now, but doingdumbbell workout, which is a new
thing for me, um, I am seeingprogress like I've never seen
before in my life.
I mean, I've been able to gettoned before, but not like I am

(03:14:42):
today.
It's a huge difference.
I love it.
You know, and any chance I get,I'm always trying to recruit
people.
Get down here, man.
You got, come on, man.
This is, it's easy.
You know, I love it.
It's grown on me.
So how does someone, ifsomebody's, find this podcast,
how do they get involved inVeterans Connect?

SPEAKER_03 (03:15:05):
Well, they can always reach out to me.
I think the, I guess the easiestand safest way would be email
me, which is mike, M-I-K-E dotM-O-R-A-N-G at Y-M-C-A staff,

(03:15:25):
S-T-A-F-F dot org.
There should be brochures allover the place, all over the
YMCA, at Countryside and theLandon.
If nothing else, if you are aveteran and you are interested
in anything that we have tooffer now or what we hope to

(03:15:46):
offer in the future, the bestway is for me to receive an
email from you because I'mpretty good about replying
within 24 hours.
And what I'll do is I'll replyback to you immediately,
thanking for your interest.
I'll let you know a little synopabout what the program is, the

(03:16:08):
classes, the class schedule.
I will always send you thebrochure when we do our
get-togethers or hanging withour peeps get-togethers.
And then the other programs withtheir brochures too, just so
that you can kind of see thatWe're not just one thing.
We're a vast thing ofactivities, which we didn't even

(03:16:35):
hit upon.
Volunteer stuff.
Volunteer stuff, the communityinvolvement.
We've built two bridges on thetrails that are right behind the
countryside YMCA.
We cleaned a woman's yard uplast summer that needed it.
Yeah.
And we started helping a guyrebuild his shed out in Goshen

(03:16:55):
from the tornado out there.
We built beds for kids thatdon't have beds.
Sleep in Heavenly Peace.
We've volunteered with themnumerous times.
So it's...
It's a great way to give back.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (03:17:10):
Definitely is.
And it's all local here in thecommunity.
So it's not like you're doingsomething for somebody in D.C.
No.
No.

SPEAKER_03 (03:17:17):
It's all

SPEAKER_00 (03:17:17):
local

SPEAKER_03 (03:17:18):
stuff.
So all local stuff, it's...
You know, and when I say we have50 to 60 vets, do all 50 to 60
of them show up for a fitnessclass?
No.
But they're all involved in someway, shape, or form.
Some of them, just all they wantto do is volunteer.

(03:17:38):
Yeah, and then some of them justwant to work out.
And some just want to work out.
So...
So yeah, if you're a vet and youare hungry for that camaraderie,
please shoot that email.
I will also throw out one morecaveat, I guess, to that.

(03:18:00):
So some of the questions that Ido get are, do you help out
those that are in wheelchairs?
How about someone that'sstruggling, say, like with
Alzheimer's?
Can I come in because my, andwe've had this as my family
member is a vet, but he or shehas Alzheimer's, but I'm not a

(03:18:22):
vet.
That's fine.
I don't care.
And the reason why I say it thatway is because I feel that if it
helps for that veteran to havetheir significant other, whether
it's that spouse, that fiance,if it's a brother or sister, If

(03:18:43):
it's, um, the, uh, um, why am Idrawing a blank on the dogs?
Um, uh, the care dogs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Service dogs.
Service dogs.
Yeah.
If it's a service dog, we'vehad, we've had two vets, um,
from, uh, um, oh yeah, evenanother thing that we help out
with, with the Warren CountyVeterans Support Services.

(03:19:06):
They, uh, They have vets thatcome through that have
unfortunately lost their way.
And they're trying to getthemselves back on that right
path and back within thecommunity.
And, you know, having VetsConnect has helped, I think, at
least six or seven vets throughtwo different courts to kind of

(03:19:28):
get somewhat back on track andon a better path.
So, yeah, I...
If you ever have a questionabout anything like that, again,
the email, it's easier for me tojust respond back, tell you no
worries.
They can come out and play withus.

(03:19:50):
I love it when the kids come outand help on community projects,
when we do our other events,like our Patriot run that we'll
do at the end of the year.
which is a lot of fun.
And that usually has a reallygood turnout, too.
Yeah, so last year, last year wewent, we pressed it over 130, so
that was awesome.
This year, the plan, and I sayit that way, the plan, so last

(03:20:15):
year we honored the Army, andthe year before that we honored
the Marine Corps.
This year we're going to honorthe Navy.
So if an individual runs the 5Kroad race, then they'll get this
medallion um that is in uhrepresents the navy it's the
navy's uh dod branch um logo andthen um if they uh double down

(03:20:41):
and want to do the trail runthey will also get a challenge
coin that well i gotta do boththis year that that will give
that will give that individualum a challenge point that on one
side has the DOD branches and onthe other side, it has a Patriot
type rider that it says, Isurvived the trail.

(03:21:03):
Nice.
Yeah.
So I think it's pretty cool.
And hopefully, you know, whetheryou do the trail run or do the
5k road race, or you actually doboth, In one way, you're going
to come home in a sense withsomething.
Everybody also gets shirts.
Oh, yeah.
There's always swag bags.
There's always swag.

(03:21:24):
And I always look forvolunteers.
So, I mean, not only does ourgroup volunteer to come out, but
I've already got interest fromother entities that are chomping
at the bit about coming out andhelp.

SPEAKER_00 (03:21:36):
Yeah, that's a lot of fun.
I've got my Army medallion.
I've got my Marine medallion.
So, you know you're going to seeme for the next few years
because I want all of them.
I want the whole collection.
All right, so we are coming upon some time here.
I wanted to, before we wrapthis, so you mentioned Veterans
Court.

(03:21:58):
You're a part of that.
How long have you been doingVeterans Court?
So

SPEAKER_03 (03:22:02):
I partnered up with Judge Loxley and then Judge
Teep.
We've been at this partnership,if you will, for at least the
last three years.
both courts, I've gone over andtalked about Veterans Connect,
you know, to those vets that areunfortunately there.

(03:22:25):
I mean, but they are progressingin a better way.
And then it's just to try toentice them to say, hey, you
know, here's this program.
I don't demand anything fromyou.
I mean, if you do what you wantto do.
But with their program, Youknow, they have to do so many

(03:22:47):
service hours in order tograduate or make it to the next
level in order to graduate fromVeterans Court.
So they have to do so manyvolunteer service hours.
And so I got that, right?
So I can say, hey, we've got anevent coming up.

(03:23:07):
Who of your vets want to comeout and give us a hand?

UNKNOWN (03:23:10):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 (03:23:10):
And then what the neat thing is, and I've seen it
too, is that when the vets dovolunteer work and then they go
into their graduation, theyactually run, like, screenshots
on a television there.
And it will say, let's say, forexample, I'm in the court
system.
It would say, Mike Morang...

(03:23:33):
led the way of building thisbridge, countryside YMCA.
It saved the YMCA X amount ofdollars and it's not anything
good.
So it's kind of giving them thatbig kudo attaboy, you know,
thing that...
I didn't realize there was aservice or a

SPEAKER_00 (03:23:51):
volunteer hour requirement.
Yeah, there is.
Okay.
Because I

SPEAKER_03 (03:23:55):
think, I think there are three levels that you have
to do in order to completelygraduate from the Veterans
Court.
And each one, they have to do atleast 10 hours of volunteer
service.

SPEAKER_00 (03:24:11):
Well, I'm going there tomorrow because I'm
interested in becoming a mentor.
Just after talking to Don, wetalked extensively about
Veterans Corps when I sat downwith him.
And he dispelled a lot of mythsfor me.
One myth being that I thought, Ithought because I did not know
that Veterans Court was almost afree pass.

(03:24:33):
Like, you get into that systemby benefit of being a veteran,
and you get a little easier paththrough the court system, which
is not the case.
But what it sounds like is it...
And again, I'm speaking basedoff what Tom was telling me.
It's a way to get a leg up.
You have to go through the courtsystem because you did something

(03:24:53):
wrong, but you're going to gothrough that system, but you're
also going to go through and...
pick up skills or contacts, waysto move forward in life,
progress, instead of being thatsame old cycle of destruction.

SPEAKER_03 (03:25:10):
And that Wednesday, when they do the veteran's
report, I've sat in on enough ofthem, and I've seen where the
judge, they...
You know, they feel for the vet,they understand the vet, or they
try to understand the vet.
But I've seen them tell thatvet, you're going back to jail.

(03:25:35):
Yeah.
And because they screwed thepooch.
They're not following the rules.
They didn't follow the rule,what they were supposed to do,
and they got sent back to jail.
And so it's not an easy trip.
Right.
I mean, it's a, I say, I thinkof it as a set of open arms to

(03:25:55):
say, All right, we got you.
Right.
You still have to work.
But there's expectations.
Yeah, you still have to work atit.
But we have you.
We'll support you.
We're here for you.
And

SPEAKER_00 (03:26:07):
we'll get you back on the right path.
I'm a firm believer that withoutconsequences, there's no growth.

SPEAKER_03 (03:26:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (03:26:13):
You know, I think people have to have that
negative hanging over them inorder to motivate people the
will to change.
Otherwise, why?
Why change if nothing bad isever going to happen?
So Veterans Court, you've beeninvolved with that.
Suicide Prevention Coalition?

SPEAKER_03 (03:26:35):
So Warren County Veterans Suicide Prevention
Coalition.
Okay.
And I've worked with them for alittle over a year, maybe even
closer to two years.
But I've only been thiscoordinator trying to help out

(03:26:57):
their current coordinator,Scott.
He's one of our vets in ourveterans program.
You know, he's unfortunately hashad to deal with some health
issues, still kind of dealingwith those.
And so I talked to my wifesaying that, you know, you know,

(03:27:17):
I have a brother in need, needssome help, and I think I want to
help him out.
And she's like, okay, if thatmakes you happy, go ahead and do
what you need to do.
So I've been this coordinatorwith the program, the coalition,
for I think it's going to behonestly three months.

(03:27:40):
And it's the same thing that I'mkind of doing now, other than
the the promotion of preventingsuicide.
You know, and I'm sure thatwe've seen the Valhalla shirts
out there, you know, 22 a day.
Those numbers haven't fluctuatedthat much.

(03:28:00):
I mean, maybe today it's 20 andtomorrow it'll be 23.
Not that long ago I heard thatit actually went up.
Maybe it's going back

SPEAKER_00 (03:28:08):
down

SPEAKER_03 (03:28:08):
again,

SPEAKER_00 (03:28:08):
but

SPEAKER_03 (03:28:08):
it's still too many.
It's still way too many andTheir program is devised to, and
they work with the VAs, bothCincinnati and Dayton, to
provide that information outthere for vets that there are
other ways to handle this.

(03:28:31):
Do not take your life.
And they offer other mentalhealth services.
Paths, avenues, information, howto get help, numbers, this,
that, and the other.
And so being a part of that, Ithink it kind of, here again, I

(03:28:53):
can kind of pull that into ourprogram.
Definitely.
You know, whether it's one ofour vets or if I know, if I come
across another vet out as I'mpromoting, if they talk to me
and, I'm kind of listening andit sounds like, okay, this guy
or gal is struggling.

(03:29:14):
I can now offer them a businesscard that has pertinent
information on there or if youjust email this link here for
your VA that's closest to you,they can help bring you in and

(03:29:34):
get the help that they need.
The other neat thing is with thecoalition, is just like with me,
I always look for volunteers.
They look for volunteers too.
Their mass, if you will, is notquite as great as our Veterans
Connect group.

(03:29:55):
They do have a decent amount ofpeople, but just like with
anything that we deal with or Ideal with, you know, doing
events and stuff like that, I'mglad that I have the numbers
that I have because if I'mlooking for, say, 15 people, I
should get 15 people out of 50to 60.

(03:30:18):
Whereas with them, I think ifthey needed 15 people, they're
right on the cusp of scrubbingthe barrel and the bottom of the
barrel because they just don'thave those that want to come out
and promote, I guess.

(03:30:38):
I think that, you know, with thecoalition, it's just really,
it's just about promoting thatthere are better ways than to,
it doesn't matter if you knowwhat the coalition is, how it's

(03:30:59):
ran, who's in charge or anythinglike that.
I think as a vet, if you want tovolunteer to help prevent
somebody else from taking theirlife, then maybe join this
coalition.
Because if that's all that youcan bring to the table, then
that's enough.
That is enough.

SPEAKER_00 (03:31:17):
Yep, for sure.
I think, you know, programs likethat are incredibly important.
You know, I've never consideredmyself a dumb guy.
But I was incredibly misinformedabout a lot of things.
I mentioned, you know, Istruggled when I came out of the
military.

(03:31:39):
I was already a drinker, but mydrinking went, it skyrocketed.
I was just, and I was isolatingand I was getting suicidal.
But I, you know, so I've gotguns because I like to hunt.
You know, I like to be able toprotect myself.

(03:31:59):
I like shooting sports.
But my fear was that if I go tothe VA and tell them that I am
like danger close to suckstarting a shotgun, my fear was
that they're going to come takemy guns.
And that fear wasn't something Ijust generated.
I actually had other veteranstell me that.

(03:32:21):
I had veterans say, look, if youtell them this, they're going to
red flag you.
And they're going to come getall your guns.
So, Mike, I held on to that foryears.
I retired in 2017.
I didn't fully divulge how Ifelt until March of 23.
I struggled in silence and triedto drink my way through the

(03:32:47):
feelings I was having, which wasjust causing me to spiral lower
and lower and lower.
And right around the time I metyou and came to Veterans Connect
was when I finally began tostart digging myself out of that
hole.
And it started with being sodesperate that I just went to
the VA and told them everything.
Like, this is what I'm thinking.

(03:33:08):
This is what's going on with me.
And I was pleasantly surprisedto find out, no, they're not
going to come take your guns.
Now, if you walk in there andsay, I'm going to leave here and
I'm going to go home and killeverybody in my family, then
yes, the cops are probably goingto get involved.
But, you know, I was having justnormal symptoms.
Well, I wouldn't call themnormal, but I had suicidal

(03:33:29):
ideations on a daily basis.
And, you know, I got the help Ineeded.
And I would just like to saythat, you know, one of the
things that sustained me sincethen is becoming involved in
programs like VetConnect.
Getting away from thatisolation, getting away from my

(03:33:51):
bedroom, getting out there andbeing a part of, again, being a
part of a community, whichstarts at the veteran level, but
then through volunteer stuffthat we've done, it's expanded
into the local level, you know,and getting to talk to other
guys that have felt the same waythat I've felt, you know, and
knowing that we're not alone.
You know, that has made a hugedifference.

(03:34:13):
And I would say that I will keepbeating this up.
Get involved.
Get around people.
That's what's going to...
Community is what saves us.
When we try to do this shit byourselves, we're in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 (03:34:28):
You

SPEAKER_00 (03:34:28):
know?

SPEAKER_03 (03:34:29):
Yeah, and...
You know, when we were talkingabout the VA coming down and
taking your weapons, I rememberif you remotely made any kind of
mention, like, go home and takemy life or whatever.

(03:34:50):
So...
In my later years in service, Iwas that SACO, the sexual
assault ward.
And so as I went through thatand then seeing my Marines,

(03:35:11):
especially the ones that aregetting ready to get out, you
can see all of that kind of likeholding everything in.
And so afraid to let go andmaking comments like what you
were talking about.
Oh, if I go to the VA and I tellthem this, I'm going to lose my

(03:35:32):
driver's license.
I'm going to lose my weapons.
I'm going to lose this orthey're going to take my house.
I have no idea where you'regetting any of that information
from.
Well, my buddy said that.
Yeah.
Well, I don't know your buddy,but.
depending on what your buddydivulged, and then on top of it,

(03:35:54):
what he's divulging to you, ifit's as accurate as what he
divulged to the VA, then maybethere was a reason why they took
his stuff away or her stuffaway.

SPEAKER_01 (03:36:04):
You're

SPEAKER_03 (03:36:06):
a different case.
Every case is different.
I think that when I was doingmedical, and even now when I'm
doing it, medical, even though Itry not to give true medical
advice in the role that I'm in.

(03:36:27):
But even doing medical now, mything that I learned from some
great doctors that I worked withis that God made us all a
certain way.
And each person is individualand very unique.
So just because the last 10people had this condition does

(03:36:49):
not mean that they're going tocome down with this hyper rash.
You know what I'm saying?
So if this person came in withthe same exact symptoms, it
doesn't mean that they are goingto come down with that same
rash.
They may be that one that hassome other issue going on.
So when I accepted that theory,from those doctors, that's kind

(03:37:13):
of how I look at things.
Even today, when I have folksthat come in, our vets in our
own group, hey, Mike, what doyou think about this?
What are you doing with?
Well, I'm dealing with this andmy doctor says this.
Okay, but you're not.

(03:37:36):
I feel that like physicians,they operate off of that.
Everybody is on an average,right?
Yeah.
So the average Joe Schmo hasthese symptoms.
This is what they have.
It must be this.
It must be this.
And that's not the case.
Right.
You can have something totallydifferent.
I would do X, Y, and Z.
And when you go to your doctor,do let them know that you're the

(03:37:59):
one that's in charge, not thedoctor.
So if you go in there and youtell them, I feel like this is
the way that we need to go tosolve this mystery.
That's, that's you, you do that.
And somewhat knock on wood, I'velucked out where most of the

(03:38:20):
time I can be pretty close to,you know, what it is that it
winds up being, but everyscenario is going to be
different no matter what.
So I know I hear even todayabout the VA, all the It's
either the VA sucks or the VA isgreat.
There's no in between.

SPEAKER_00 (03:38:40):
Right.
It's one or the other.
That's what I've heard too.

SPEAKER_03 (03:38:44):
And the ones that say it suck are all the ones
that are, for the most part, aredisgruntled on what the VA or
the doctor or somebody told themthat they could or could not do
and blah, blah, blah.
And it's like, well, You don'thave to do it.
And I mean, they're just sayingthat you're making a suggestion.

(03:39:06):
You don't have to do it.
And the ones that thinkeverything is greater than great
and these things and slicedbread, you know, maybe they have
gotten into that acceptance of,okay, they understand where I'm
coming from.
They don't mind that I getopinions.
Right.
So everything is good to go.

SPEAKER_00 (03:39:26):
I'm one of those.
I think the VA is great.
I know I'm eligible to go to theDayton VA, but I still go to the
Cincinnati VA just because I'vebuilt.
I know the doctors there that Isee, and I've had nothing but
good experiences.
Now, I know I'm not the norm,but I take it with a grain of

(03:39:46):
salt.
I understand this is agovernment-run facility.
We've been a part of thegovernment for most of our lives
now, so we understand howgovernment health care works.
And like you said, once you getin that acceptance that, okay,
this is how this system is, youknow, it's not like you walk
into a private doctor and youget some cucumber water and
they, you know, they tap you onyour butt and they give you

(03:40:09):
whatever medicine you ask for orwhatever.
The VA is not like that.
You know, they're going to treatwhat's wrong with you and
they're not going to go aboveand beyond.
And that's what I want.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (03:40:18):
I don't.

SPEAKER_00 (03:40:19):
I don't want an elective surgery to get my hair
replaced.
You know, I'm good with it now,bro.
Though, Mike, it's beenfantastic sitting here.
I was thinking we were going todo two sessions.
I might end up splitting this inhalf.
I don't know how that's going towork, but I want to make sure
all that vet connect stuff isseen and heard.

(03:40:39):
And that was, we didn't reallystart talking about that for
about a couple hours into it,but this has been excellent.

UNKNOWN (03:40:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (03:40:45):
So I can't wait to post it.
So I appreciate your time.
Thanks, brother.
Thank you a lot, man.

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