November 21, 2024 • 25 mins
How do you navigate the ups and downs of grief during the holiday season, especially Thanksgiving, after losing a child? Join us, Amy and Michele, as we sit down with our guest, Jenny Stanley, to share personal stories and offer strategies for managing the complex emotions that accompany this time of year. Jenny invites us into her world of grappling with the question, “Why us?” during festive family gatherings, while Amy reflects on the bittersweet solace found in these moments. Together, we explore the interplay between societal expectations of gratitude and the personal sorrow felt when a loved one is absent.
Thanksgiving traditions can be both a comfort and a challenge. In our conversation, we recount how families adapt their rituals to honor those no longer with us—whether it’s setting an extra chair at the table, or finding comfort in the presence of an empty one. We also touch upon the diverse ways families choose to remember their lost loved ones, from open celebrations to quieter, unspoken acts of remembrance. This delicate balance of honoring the past while celebrating the present offers profound lessons on resilience and love.
Throughout our discussion, we underscore the power of self-compassion and the importance of evolving family dynamics. Welcoming new members and crafting new traditions to embrace both memory and change are key themes we explore. With insights from our shared experiences, we encourage listeners to offer themselves grace, cherish moments of gratitude, and create a nurturing environment during Thanksgiving. Whether you're new to this journey or have walked it for many years, find hope and comfort in the collective support of our Warrior Moms community.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
We'd love to hear from our followers!
Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
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With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle Davis.
I am Carter's mom.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Amy and I am Alex's mom and we are so
thankful that y'all are backwith us.
I know it's been a while butyou know, I feel like that's the
story of our lives lately.
Michelle, I know I know Runningand going and doing and being
and not connecting, and that'smy heart.
I don't know how you feel, butbeing disconnected is kind of.
(00:31):
It gives me a different senseof being these days.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, I think it definitely fuels me, for sure.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
And I definitely crave that connection.
Somebody who understands Idon't have to say anything to
you and we know exactly how wefeel.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yep, it does bring comfort in my day to day for
some reason.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That refuel.
They say fuel yourself, soanyway you fill my cup.
I'm glad you're here to fill mycup.
I am thankful.
Which will bring us to our yes,our discussion today.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You know we're in the season of Thanksgiving and one
of the things that Amy and Iwere talking about is, you know
all the holiday decor and youknow the table runners that say
be thankful and blessed, and allof that Grateful and yeah, and
(01:30):
we feel all those things.
But of course, with losing achild, the grief is deep and
there's a lot of times where,you know, we question and wonder
how we got here and why us, andit's hard to be thankful
sometimes, and so today we justwant to talk about that.
(01:53):
How can you be intentionalabout finding some hope in the
midst of also giving yourselfthat space in this season of
Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And so we have a guest and we also give you
permission to be a little bitangry and unthankful at moments,
as long as you're intentionalabout not staying there.
But, yes, who do we have today,Michelle?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So we have Jenny Stanley with us.
Jenny, hello, Hello, how areboth of y'all?
So Jenny has been on ourpodcast before.
She is Sydney's mom and we'regrateful that she is joining us
today.
It's just fun to add adifferent perspective,
(02:43):
especially, there's a lot ofdifferent Thanksgiving sort of
traditions, and so we thought itwould be interesting to hear
our different perspectives.
So I think the first thing Iwanted to talk about is just, um
, just honoring really why weexperience, you know this, this
season of holidays, one afteranother, after another in the
(03:04):
fall, starting with just back toschool, right is you know what
they call compounded grief?
Right, it's the missing ofhaving our child at each of
these events, and so what's yourthoughts about?
Kind of honoring that grief?
I guess, kind of honoring thatgrief, I guess.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Well, it seems like that's when I get.
I fall back into my old pattern, which is not healthy, of why
Sydney gets, because I saw, youknow you see the Hallmark movies
and then the commercials, andthe public commercials kill me
every year.
You know as to why.
It just reiterates why Sydney?
Why is everybody else feelslike?
(03:44):
Why is everybody else?
Why like, why is everybody else?
Why is the world so happy?
But I'm not because sydney'snot there, and to me, I guess
the I guess more because it'sall the traditions that we don't
have anymore is what I'mmissing and questioning why, why
don't we or why can't we?
So that's kind of the paththat's unhealthy, but honestly,
(04:05):
that's kind of where I go when Iespecially Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's just yes it's so normal and I think that was why
we really wanted to start withthat is that it is a hundred
percent normal is to questionand to wonder why us and why our
child, and to really face thegrief and know that this is real
right, that it is not.
(04:29):
You know, it's not somethingyou just get over, like this
year.
It's going to happen every yearon these special seasons.
How about you, amy, and whereyou are in the grief in these
moments like Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
in these moments like Thanksgiving, you know, I kind
of take a different approach andyes, I'm not happy about it but
I do realize that it brings itmore to the forefront of
everybody's not going to be hereforever.
And I don't mean that in a sadway, I mean that in like a real
way.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I need to spend as much time with these people as
I'm thankful they're all stillhere and I'm thankful that we
have the time to spend together.
So you know we drive from onestate to the other trying to see
all the family and eat big.
And, you know, get to see allthe cousins and distant cousins.
And you know, get to see allthe cousins and distant cousins.
And you know our grandparentsaren't here anymore, which you
(05:30):
know that's sad but that'sexpected.
You know you plan for that,like okay, well, once you know
this happens, then this willhappen.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Like you said with you know, since Alec has left,
it's, you know, there's justalways, there's always an empty
chair, and that's just the bestway.
There is always somethingmissing.
Somebody's always missing.
Um, and I do take a moment tohonor that within me.
Um, we don't have like a big youknow moment around the table
(06:01):
where we're like, oh, talk aboutyou know whatever, but we do
have.
We still find joy in the day.
We're still thankful for eachother, thankful for our families
and thankful that we've allbeen so close for so long and we
have each other.
So it's, yes, I'm still missinga piece, but I do find joy in
(06:24):
the traditions.
You know, a lot of people goaway from it and do something
completely different.
Where we, I hold on to thosetraditions, they're comforting
to me.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The same food every year, that's comforting to me,
yeah and that's one of thethings that we wanted to talk
about in those first.
You know, the first year afteryour child is do you participate
or not?
And, Amy, it sounds like thatwas something that did bring you
comfort, even though yoursadness was it did bring me
(06:57):
comfort and my family was reallygood at allowing me to go.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I mean, there was times that I would spend in the
room, you know, in my room, orthe guest room or wherever we
were.
And I could just go in thereand they allowed me the space to
have my own and they didn'tquestion or be like why aren't
you out here?
You know, like when I was ateenager and I would retreat to
the room my mom would be likeyou're just trying to avoid
(07:23):
everybody.
And yes, I was trying to avoideverybody, but I'm trying to
avoid everybody in a differentway, but I still tried to bring
myself together to not avoid.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
But I could have avoided the whole time.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, but you were intentional about finding places
to like you said, your familyis so close and you're clinging
to that and being thankful forthe time together.
How about you, jenny?
Did you participate or not?
What did you do after you lostSydney?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
or not.
What did you do after you lostSidney?
We did, and I try to keep it asnormal as possible, but still,
you know I'd go to my wife, youknow, and why us?
Or whatever.
But you know, with the two boysI wanted to make sure it was as
consistent and as positive andas thankful, as you know,
because it's the boys I mean,they were still, you know, young
(08:24):
, but I would have thoughts,internal thoughts.
I would never I didn't vocalizethem.
One, you know, people aroundyou are not going to understand
it.
And then you know, then youkind of go back into the same.
Well, you've got two boys andyou know you start to go back
with that.
So it's just to me, at thattime it was so raw it was better
to keep my mouth shut aboutsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So with little, with the little boys and stuff like
that, were you able to retreatat some points and have your
what I call my pity party atsome points in the day.
Not really.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Or did you have to suck it up and keep going?
Okay, I had to suck it up andkeep going because it was at our
house and you know thegrandmothers and the aunts and
uncles, you know they were atour home, so I didn't feel like
you were the host.
I don't know if that helped orhurt, though, really.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yes, yeah, well, and sometimes just keeping busy and
having you know, that plan of oh, I've got to cook and I'm
hosting.
And you know that phrase fakeit till you make it.
Sometimes is, you know, can bea positive coping mechanism for
sure.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You said earlier, Jenny, that y'all change it up
now.
So how long did you continue tohost Thanksgiving before y'all
made changes?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I guess it was about maybe three or four years into
it after her death that we didthis, and the reason we did was
my sister-in-law and her currentor her husband, um, were fairly
somewhat recent, recentlymarried and they built a home,
so they decided that they wantedto have this at their home,
(10:08):
because neither of them had hadthat opportunity to host
thanksgiving and um were youlike yeah, or did you?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
have a hard time letting it go.
No, I had a hard time with that.
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Uh, it's kind of like .
I don't really rememberagreeing to that, but I guess so
.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Maybe I was yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Onward and onward and you know.
And then it was kind of like,okay, the things we do now that
are traditions, you know, don'thave the what you know.
It was kind of like, okay, thethings we do now that are
traditions, you know, don't havethe what it, you know.
It was good to make a change,but I still think about how much
she would have enjoyed the newthings we do, like we fry
(10:48):
turkeys and then, you know, thenight before on Wednesday, it's
like the adult night.
Well, it's adult night and ouryounger kids, the younger kids,
you know, the grandparents andall that aren't around and we
kind of we have a little partyand but it's, it's fun.
But I just think about how shewould be running around and I
still think of her as a six yearold In my mind.
(11:09):
She's still, you know, she'sstill six.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, one of the things my dad did the first
Thanksgiving was just quietly hewent into the room and my mom
of course had a table set up andit was beautiful and he just
got an extra chair and he set anextra place and then he put a
little card, of course withCarter's name on it, and I mean
(11:39):
we all cried our little heartsout when we first saw it.
But now that's something we doevery year is hold that.
Hold a spot at the table, evenif we're apart and we're all
having, you know, five or sixdifferent Thanksgivings across
the country.
Five or six differentThanksgivings across the country
.
Each of us, my sisters, my momand dad we just hold a spot at
(12:02):
the table for Carter.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I like that idea.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
You know what's funny I think it was the second
Thanksgiving that Alec was gone.
It just so happened we were outon the deck and everybody was
sitting or whatever like that,and the chair next to me just
happened to be empty.
Oh, like it was, you know,because there's different places
and in my mind I was likethat's Alec.
(12:27):
I don't know if anybody elselike thought that at that moment
, but I was.
I was like, oh, there's Alec,and I'd be like are you eating
the ham?
You're eating the ham becauseyou don't like the turkey, don't
you?
You love the ham, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, you got to try the turkey.
Come on, try the turkey.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, but it made me.
It gave me joy, which is soweird as opposed to sadness.
No, I mean it's, but then thenext day it could have made me
cry you know, right, right, well, and that was you know seeing,
of course, that course, thatchair.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I mean, we all cried, but yet it was the sweetness.
You know that my dad did thatand wanted me and Jeremy and
Greta to know that.
You know he's not physicallyhere, but you know um how did
y'all do the first year?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
because it was.
How was the first year?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, the first year, gosh, we had a funeral in
Georgia and then we had afuneral in South Dakota, so we
had been home late September andso we didn't, you know, turn
around and come back.
So we were by ourselves for thatfirst Thanksgiving, or we were
(13:37):
going to be by ourselves, and mysister Melanie was like that's
just not going to work and soshe flew out.
But I mean, the exhaustion wasso immense and we had just moved
a month prior to that and,bless little Greta's heart, she
was eight years old, and I hadput on the counter, you know,
like the green beans and thecream of mushroom, and I had set
(14:00):
out the recipes and, you know,for the next day and the, you
know the pie, and just all thethings I had put on the counter,
and I, you know, slept inreally late and get up, and she
had gone in and had make thegreen bean casserole and pumpkin
pie and she figured out how to,you know, make mashed potatoes
(14:21):
and I was just absolutely amazedand it was, ah, I cried about
that too, but it was also justsuch joy and a good reminder
about, like you said, jenny,about, you know, just keep going
.
You know that you have the boys, we have Greta.
You know, amy, like it's a goodreminder, like we are here and
(14:44):
we need to be intentional aboutfinding that joy and celebrating
together, even if it is alsosad.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I think my family took more of the approach that
some people take, you know,about not mentioning it.
You know she was in the prayer.
It was said, you know, and forthose who aren't with us, but
that was kind of the end of it,it was not, there wasn't a chair
, there wasn't any recognitionof her and that she wasn't there
to help.
You know, kind of stillparticipate.
I know this sounds crazy, butto still kind of halfway
(15:15):
participate in Thanksgiving, soat that point and still kind of
it's, you know, don't say hername or yeah, that standpoint is
what really happened in ourfamily Ours too, I mean, it's
still to this day, is kind oflike that.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I mean, we're very Southern, you know, you just
don't.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Well, I mean, I think that's true all over.
It's just, my dad is.
I mean, he's just, he's just Idon't know.
He's a beautiful man and he'sjust going to push forward in a
way that I think we probablywould have been the same like
y'all and not said something.
You know, we maybe would havementioned Carter in the prayer,
(15:58):
but you know, he just led thatday Like well, we are going to
celebrate both being there andnot.
You know Well, and this isgreat.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
You know I go off topic all the time because you
know that's.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's it, but it's kind of so putting it out there.
Jenny, I'm just gonna ask youdid that make you sad or was it
like?
This is just the way it is?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
it was a little bit of both and it was kind of like
well, crap, I guess we're justnot going to talk about her.
You know it's like she's it was.
You know it was sad, it wasreally sad, but then on the
other hand, I could fight backthe tears, so it was a little
bit of both.
Um, I would much rather havetalked about her.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You know, when I suck up the tears then, yeah, kind
of like you know, and I'm kindof like yeah, like for me it's
like that first year or two likeI was fine, but then it was
like afterwards, like a fewyears afterwards, I'm like why
don't we do any?
You know, like once you kind ofcome out of that fog of we need
(17:12):
to acknowledge this, you know Imean, granted, we have, but I
don't want to make it the centerof attention either.
But you know, so I do justbring up his name during the.
You know we'll talk about doyou remember that year, that?
Or you know whatever.
So that's kind of how we arecomfortable in doing that, right
, yeah, and I think that's youknow kind of our.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Our last topic is really kind of, you know, these
tips, for how can we haveself-compassion?
And I think that's part of it.
You know we've heard just thethree of us who had three
different ways of handling.
You know, thanksgiving in thosefirst couple years and even
still today, and there's norules.
(17:55):
You know we're entering yearnine of not having Carter at
Thanksgiving, which is justastounding.
To say out loud Chokes me up,and we might have a new
tradition.
You know, like it's okay, Ithink, have a new tradition,
(18:19):
it's okay, I think, to lean inand add things to our traditions
just like we do when our kidwas here.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I do think we get stuck in a rut.
Speaking from us, you get stuckin a rut of the what I don't
know.
You want to keep things thesame, but yet, because you don't
want to forget how that was.
I know yeah and so it's like you, you stay true to that.
(18:47):
But I mean, I even talk aboutthat like when my grandparents
were alive, like our familytried so hard to keep with doing
everything the way we did whenthey were alive, but at the same
time we can't do it becausewe're all growing so much yeah,
growing families and doing allthat.
We can't all coordinate.
(19:07):
But that's where the daggerhurts is.
If we had changed, then I won'tbe able to remember him being
here, because we moved it hereand I never had the memory of
him there, like that's something.
I think that deviating from thetradition hurts my heart more
(19:28):
than relieves it.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like you were saying, some people go do completely
different things and that makesthem feel better.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Where yeah absolutely , I wish I'd been more vocal.
I wish I'd been more um.
I love the idea of the chair Ididn't think about it until
you've said it but I wish I'dbeen more um, vocal or more
included her in conversationsand what silly things she may
(19:58):
have done, or what she may havedone at that time, or something,
as opposed to falling into thetrap of, you know, like
avoidance of me trying to makeeverybody comfortable, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I mean, let's be honest, that's what it is, jenny
, it is.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I was trying to make everybody comfortable and not
bring up a sad subject.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, and I think the reality is that that's part of
who we are.
And I just if that's somethingthat's on your heart and even if
you know maybe it'suncomfortable with the bigger
group, but that you do it in asmall way with your own, you
know little family.
With your own, you know littlefamily.
(20:38):
And I'll tell you, yeah, it'ssad but it's amazing, the
different perspectives thatpeople remember of our child or
things you know, and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm, you know, and
so of course it's painful andsad, but then it's so sweet, you
know, you just get somethingjust precious out of it.
So if I would encourage any wayto push through and say, hey, I
(20:59):
know we haven't set her name atThanksgiving, but this year I
want to.
I want to, you know, have achair or have a candle on the
table, that's just for her.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, and that's my question is do you think it's
too late, ever Like if youdidn't start it in the first
five years, can you start itagain, or can you start
something like that?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I feel weird about it , frankly, just because it's
just like oh okay, I'm throwingthis wrench into everything you
know, but that's a horrible wayto say it, but it's you know,
I'm kind of disrupting things.
Again, I would feel like if Imade it so obvious, I guess, as
opposed to that, but I think Iwill talk more about it, though,
(21:42):
for sure, yeah, I thinkwhatever you know, whatever
feels comfortable, you have tofind that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
But gosh, I would hope that it's never too late.
You know that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
But I'm with you, jenny, I would feel weird.
You know, here we are goinginto this, we're into the sixth
year of Alec and I don't thinkthat I could just put a plate
you know a table, a chair out,that just, for example.
I couldn't just put a chair outand be like, hey, yeah, I would
feel awkward about that.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
But it makes perfect sense to say you know y'all, I
have been in just a fog and nowI'm at this other place and I
want to be intentional withhonoring that Alec isn't here.
I mean, that's perfectly fine,you're.
You know?
I think don't put you knowthese parameters on yourself.
You're sitting at a table withpeople who absolutely love each
(22:34):
of you.
Yes, and loved Alec and lovedSydney.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And if they hadn't met him?
Like I know, jenny, you just,both your boys, or just one of
them, got engaged.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, just one, Logan Just one.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, he just got engaged and we can talk about it
.
Now we can talk about it now.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's not a secret.
We can talk about it now.
It's not a secret.
We can talk about it now.
We can talk about it now.
It's not a secret.
We can talk about it now.
It's not a secret.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, that's good, you won't allow this one to air
until it's like this no, it'sall good.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And she said yes.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So she said yes, which is great.
You know like we bring newpeople into, you know our family
traditions and I just hope, andwould pray for each of you,
that you find a way that feelsgood to.
I just gosh for the rest of mylife.
I would encourage any newgriever or old griever there is.
It is never too late because, Imean, we all go through these
(23:36):
different stages and all of asudden you have a, you have a
better capacity to to face anddo things that you know we just
weren't strong enough to do theyear prior.
Yeah, so give ourselves grace,I guess, is our message.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, yes, However, whatever form that is right.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, and if you decide not to do it, then you
know, maybe it's a quiet spaceand you, you know journal a
little letter, or you, at night,before bed, you say a prayer,
or you just talk directly toyour child.
I mean, there's lots of ways tohonor them without you know
changing any of the currenttraditions too.
And who you are, you got to betrue to you know changing any of
(24:16):
the current traditions to andwho you are.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You got to be true to who you are, so Exactly yes.
Well, so glad you got back onhere with us.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I know this, I like talking, you know, because it's
one.
I like talking just in general.
But two, you know, it's likeyou guys said at the very
beginning, we don't have toexplain it to each other, it's
just we had a bad day and bothof you would know exactly what I
was talking about, without anyquestions.
So it's comforting, like yousaid it's very comforting.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes, for sure it is absolutely, and thanks for
sharing y'all as it isAbsolutely, and thanks for
sharing y'all.
We know that as women, we wantto offer comfort and this
coziness to our families in thisseason of Thanksgiving and I
(25:09):
just want to encourage y'all andour listeners just that it's
okay to just be thankful whereyou are in that moment and it's
okay just to take it exactlywhere you are.
Like Amy says, feel the feelsand give yourself grace and lean
in when you can and, you know,take it one day at a time.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Well, happy Thanksgiving everybody.
Hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle Davis.
I am Carter's mom.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
And I'm Amy and I am Alex's mom and we are so
thankful that y'all are backwith us.
I know it's been a while butyou know, I feel like that's the
story of our lives lately.
Michelle, I know I know Runningand going and doing and being
and not connecting, and that'smy heart.
I don't know how you feel, butbeing disconnected is kind of.
(00:31):
It gives me a different senseof being these days.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, I think it definitely fuels me, for sure.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
And I definitely crave that connection.
Somebody who understands Idon't have to say anything to
you and we know exactly how wefeel.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yep, it does bring comfort in my day to day for
some reason.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
That refuel.
They say fuel yourself, soanyway you fill my cup.
I'm glad you're here to fill mycup.
I am thankful.
Which will bring us to our yes,our discussion today.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You know we're in the season of Thanksgiving and one
of the things that Amy and Iwere talking about is, you know
all the holiday decor and youknow the table runners that say
be thankful and blessed, and allof that Grateful and yeah, and
(01:30):
we feel all those things.
But of course, with losing achild, the grief is deep and
there's a lot of times where,you know, we question and wonder
how we got here and why us, andit's hard to be thankful
sometimes, and so today we justwant to talk about that.
(01:53):
How can you be intentionalabout finding some hope in the
midst of also giving yourselfthat space in this season of
Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And so we have a guest and we also give you
permission to be a little bitangry and unthankful at moments,
as long as you're intentionalabout not staying there.
But, yes, who do we have today,Michelle?
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So we have Jenny Stanley with us.
Jenny, hello, Hello, how areboth of y'all?
So Jenny has been on ourpodcast before.
She is Sydney's mom and we'regrateful that she is joining us
today.
It's just fun to add adifferent perspective,
(02:43):
especially, there's a lot ofdifferent Thanksgiving sort of
traditions, and so we thought itwould be interesting to hear
our different perspectives.
So I think the first thing Iwanted to talk about is just, um
, just honoring really why weexperience, you know this, this
season of holidays, one afteranother, after another in the
(03:04):
fall, starting with just back toschool, right is you know what
they call compounded grief?
Right, it's the missing ofhaving our child at each of
these events, and so what's yourthoughts about?
Kind of honoring that grief?
I guess, kind of honoring thatgrief, I guess.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Well, it seems like that's when I get.
I fall back into my old pattern, which is not healthy, of why
Sydney gets, because I saw, youknow you see the Hallmark movies
and then the commercials, andthe public commercials kill me
every year.
You know as to why.
It just reiterates why Sydney?
Why is everybody else feelslike?
(03:44):
Why is everybody else?
Why like, why is everybody else?
Why is the world so happy?
But I'm not because sydney'snot there, and to me, I guess
the I guess more because it'sall the traditions that we don't
have anymore is what I'mmissing and questioning why, why
don't we or why can't we?
So that's kind of the paththat's unhealthy, but honestly,
(04:05):
that's kind of where I go when Iespecially Thanksgiving and
Christmas.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's just yes it's so normal and I think that was why
we really wanted to start withthat is that it is a hundred
percent normal is to questionand to wonder why us and why our
child, and to really face thegrief and know that this is real
right, that it is not.
(04:29):
You know, it's not somethingyou just get over, like this
year.
It's going to happen every yearon these special seasons.
How about you, amy, and whereyou are in the grief in these
moments like Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
in these moments like Thanksgiving, you know, I kind
of take a different approach andyes, I'm not happy about it but
I do realize that it brings itmore to the forefront of
everybody's not going to be hereforever.
And I don't mean that in a sadway, I mean that in like a real
way.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I need to spend as much time with these people as
I'm thankful they're all stillhere and I'm thankful that we
have the time to spend together.
So you know we drive from onestate to the other trying to see
all the family and eat big.
And, you know, get to see allthe cousins and distant cousins.
And you know, get to see allthe cousins and distant cousins.
And you know our grandparentsaren't here anymore, which you
(05:30):
know that's sad but that'sexpected.
You know you plan for that,like okay, well, once you know
this happens, then this willhappen.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Like you said with you know, since Alec has left,
it's, you know, there's justalways, there's always an empty
chair, and that's just the bestway.
There is always somethingmissing.
Somebody's always missing.
Um, and I do take a moment tohonor that within me.
Um, we don't have like a big youknow moment around the table
(06:01):
where we're like, oh, talk aboutyou know whatever, but we do
have.
We still find joy in the day.
We're still thankful for eachother, thankful for our families
and thankful that we've allbeen so close for so long and we
have each other.
So it's, yes, I'm still missinga piece, but I do find joy in
(06:24):
the traditions.
You know, a lot of people goaway from it and do something
completely different.
Where we, I hold on to thosetraditions, they're comforting
to me.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
The same food every year, that's comforting to me,
yeah and that's one of thethings that we wanted to talk
about in those first.
You know, the first year afteryour child is do you participate
or not?
And, Amy, it sounds like thatwas something that did bring you
comfort, even though yoursadness was it did bring me
(06:57):
comfort and my family was reallygood at allowing me to go.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I mean, there was times that I would spend in the
room, you know, in my room, orthe guest room or wherever we
were.
And I could just go in thereand they allowed me the space to
have my own and they didn'tquestion or be like why aren't
you out here?
You know, like when I was ateenager and I would retreat to
the room my mom would be likeyou're just trying to avoid
(07:23):
everybody.
And yes, I was trying to avoideverybody, but I'm trying to
avoid everybody in a differentway, but I still tried to bring
myself together to not avoid.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
But I could have avoided the whole time.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Yeah, but you were intentional about finding places
to like you said, your familyis so close and you're clinging
to that and being thankful forthe time together.
How about you, jenny?
Did you participate or not?
What did you do after you lostSydney?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
or not.
What did you do after you lostSidney?
We did, and I try to keep it asnormal as possible, but still,
you know I'd go to my wife, youknow, and why us?
Or whatever.
But you know, with the two boysI wanted to make sure it was as
consistent and as positive andas thankful, as you know,
because it's the boys I mean,they were still, you know, young
(08:24):
, but I would have thoughts,internal thoughts.
I would never I didn't vocalizethem.
One, you know, people aroundyou are not going to understand
it.
And then you know, then youkind of go back into the same.
Well, you've got two boys andyou know you start to go back
with that.
So it's just to me, at thattime it was so raw it was better
to keep my mouth shut aboutsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So with little, with the little boys and stuff like
that, were you able to retreatat some points and have your
what I call my pity party atsome points in the day.
Not really.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Or did you have to suck it up and keep going?
Okay, I had to suck it up andkeep going because it was at our
house and you know thegrandmothers and the aunts and
uncles, you know they were atour home, so I didn't feel like
you were the host.
I don't know if that helped orhurt, though, really.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yes, yeah, well, and sometimes just keeping busy and
having you know, that plan of oh, I've got to cook and I'm
hosting.
And you know that phrase fakeit till you make it.
Sometimes is, you know, can bea positive coping mechanism for
sure.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You said earlier, Jenny, that y'all change it up
now.
So how long did you continue tohost Thanksgiving before y'all
made changes?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
I guess it was about maybe three or four years into
it after her death that we didthis, and the reason we did was
my sister-in-law and her currentor her husband, um, were fairly
somewhat recent, recentlymarried and they built a home,
so they decided that they wantedto have this at their home,
(10:08):
because neither of them had hadthat opportunity to host
thanksgiving and um were youlike yeah, or did you?
Speaker 2 (10:17):
have a hard time letting it go.
No, I had a hard time with that.
I'm like.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Uh, it's kind of like .
I don't really rememberagreeing to that, but I guess so
.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Maybe I was yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Onward and onward and you know.
And then it was kind of like,okay, the things we do now that
are traditions, you know, don'thave the what you know.
It was kind of like, okay, thethings we do now that are
traditions, you know, don't havethe what it, you know.
It was good to make a change,but I still think about how much
she would have enjoyed the newthings we do, like we fry
(10:48):
turkeys and then, you know, thenight before on Wednesday, it's
like the adult night.
Well, it's adult night and ouryounger kids, the younger kids,
you know, the grandparents andall that aren't around and we
kind of we have a little partyand but it's, it's fun.
But I just think about how shewould be running around and I
still think of her as a six yearold In my mind.
(11:09):
She's still, you know, she'sstill six.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, one of the things my dad did the first
Thanksgiving was just quietly hewent into the room and my mom
of course had a table set up andit was beautiful and he just
got an extra chair and he set anextra place and then he put a
little card, of course withCarter's name on it, and I mean
(11:39):
we all cried our little heartsout when we first saw it.
But now that's something we doevery year is hold that.
Hold a spot at the table, evenif we're apart and we're all
having, you know, five or sixdifferent Thanksgivings across
the country.
Five or six differentThanksgivings across the country
.
Each of us, my sisters, my momand dad we just hold a spot at
(12:02):
the table for Carter.
That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I like that idea.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
You know what's funny I think it was the second
Thanksgiving that Alec was gone.
It just so happened we were outon the deck and everybody was
sitting or whatever like that,and the chair next to me just
happened to be empty.
Oh, like it was, you know,because there's different places
and in my mind I was likethat's Alec.
(12:27):
I don't know if anybody elselike thought that at that moment
, but I was.
I was like, oh, there's Alec,and I'd be like are you eating
the ham?
You're eating the ham becauseyou don't like the turkey, don't
you?
You love the ham, you know.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, you got to try the turkey.
Come on, try the turkey.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, but it made me.
It gave me joy, which is soweird as opposed to sadness.
No, I mean it's, but then thenext day it could have made me
cry you know, right, right, well, and that was you know seeing,
of course, that course, thatchair.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I mean, we all cried, but yet it was the sweetness.
You know that my dad did thatand wanted me and Jeremy and
Greta to know that.
You know he's not physicallyhere, but you know um how did
y'all do the first year?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
because it was.
How was the first year?
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, the first year, gosh, we had a funeral in
Georgia and then we had afuneral in South Dakota, so we
had been home late September andso we didn't, you know, turn
around and come back.
So we were by ourselves for thatfirst Thanksgiving, or we were
(13:37):
going to be by ourselves, and mysister Melanie was like that's
just not going to work and soshe flew out.
But I mean, the exhaustion wasso immense and we had just moved
a month prior to that and,bless little Greta's heart, she
was eight years old, and I hadput on the counter, you know,
like the green beans and thecream of mushroom, and I had set
(14:00):
out the recipes and, you know,for the next day and the, you
know the pie, and just all thethings I had put on the counter,
and I, you know, slept inreally late and get up, and she
had gone in and had make thegreen bean casserole and pumpkin
pie and she figured out how to,you know, make mashed potatoes
(14:21):
and I was just absolutely amazedand it was, ah, I cried about
that too, but it was also justsuch joy and a good reminder
about, like you said, jenny,about, you know, just keep going
.
You know that you have the boys, we have Greta.
You know, amy, like it's a goodreminder, like we are here and
(14:44):
we need to be intentional aboutfinding that joy and celebrating
together, even if it is alsosad.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I think my family took more of the approach that
some people take, you know,about not mentioning it.
You know she was in the prayer.
It was said, you know, and forthose who aren't with us, but
that was kind of the end of it,it was not, there wasn't a chair
, there wasn't any recognitionof her and that she wasn't there
to help.
You know, kind of stillparticipate.
I know this sounds crazy, butto still kind of halfway
(15:15):
participate in Thanksgiving, soat that point and still kind of
it's, you know, don't say hername or yeah, that standpoint is
what really happened in ourfamily Ours too, I mean, it's
still to this day, is kind oflike that.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I mean, we're very Southern, you know, you just
don't.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Talk about that.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Well, I mean, I think that's true all over.
It's just, my dad is.
I mean, he's just, he's just Idon't know.
He's a beautiful man and he'sjust going to push forward in a
way that I think we probablywould have been the same like
y'all and not said something.
You know, we maybe would havementioned Carter in the prayer,
(15:58):
but you know, he just led thatday Like well, we are going to
celebrate both being there andnot.
You know Well, and this isgreat.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
You know I go off topic all the time because you
know that's.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's it, but it's kind of so putting it out there.
Jenny, I'm just gonna ask youdid that make you sad or was it
like?
This is just the way it is?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
it was a little bit of both and it was kind of like
well, crap, I guess we're justnot going to talk about her.
You know it's like she's it was.
You know it was sad, it wasreally sad, but then on the
other hand, I could fight backthe tears, so it was a little
bit of both.
Um, I would much rather havetalked about her.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
You know, when I suck up the tears then, yeah, kind
of like you know, and I'm kindof like yeah, like for me it's
like that first year or two likeI was fine, but then it was
like afterwards, like a fewyears afterwards, I'm like why
don't we do any?
You know, like once you kind ofcome out of that fog of we need
(17:12):
to acknowledge this, you know Imean, granted, we have, but I
don't want to make it the centerof attention either.
But you know, so I do justbring up his name during the.
You know we'll talk about doyou remember that year, that?
Or you know whatever.
So that's kind of how we arecomfortable in doing that, right
, yeah, and I think that's youknow kind of our.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Our last topic is really kind of, you know, these
tips, for how can we haveself-compassion?
And I think that's part of it.
You know we've heard just thethree of us who had three
different ways of handling.
You know, thanksgiving in thosefirst couple years and even
still today, and there's norules.
(17:55):
You know we're entering yearnine of not having Carter at
Thanksgiving, which is justastounding.
To say out loud Chokes me up,and we might have a new
tradition.
You know, like it's okay, Ithink, have a new tradition,
(18:19):
it's okay, I think, to lean inand add things to our traditions
just like we do when our kidwas here.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I do think we get stuck in a rut.
Speaking from us, you get stuckin a rut of the what I don't
know.
You want to keep things thesame, but yet, because you don't
want to forget how that was.
I know yeah and so it's like you, you stay true to that.
(18:47):
But I mean, I even talk aboutthat like when my grandparents
were alive, like our familytried so hard to keep with doing
everything the way we did whenthey were alive, but at the same
time we can't do it becausewe're all growing so much yeah,
growing families and doing allthat.
We can't all coordinate.
(19:07):
But that's where the daggerhurts is.
If we had changed, then I won'tbe able to remember him being
here, because we moved it hereand I never had the memory of
him there, like that's something.
I think that deviating from thetradition hurts my heart more
(19:28):
than relieves it.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Like you were saying, some people go do completely
different things and that makesthem feel better.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Where yeah absolutely , I wish I'd been more vocal.
I wish I'd been more um.
I love the idea of the chair Ididn't think about it until
you've said it but I wish I'dbeen more um, vocal or more
included her in conversationsand what silly things she may
(19:58):
have done, or what she may havedone at that time, or something,
as opposed to falling into thetrap of, you know, like
avoidance of me trying to makeeverybody comfortable, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I mean, let's be honest, that's what it is, jenny
, it is.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I was trying to make everybody comfortable and not
bring up a sad subject.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Yeah, and I think the reality is that that's part of
who we are.
And I just if that's somethingthat's on your heart and even if
you know maybe it'suncomfortable with the bigger
group, but that you do it in asmall way with your own, you
know little family.
With your own, you know littlefamily.
(20:38):
And I'll tell you, yeah, it'ssad but it's amazing, the
different perspectives thatpeople remember of our child or
things you know, and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm, you know, and
so of course it's painful andsad, but then it's so sweet, you
know, you just get somethingjust precious out of it.
So if I would encourage any wayto push through and say, hey, I
(20:59):
know we haven't set her name atThanksgiving, but this year I
want to.
I want to, you know, have achair or have a candle on the
table, that's just for her.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, and that's my question is do you think it's
too late, ever Like if youdidn't start it in the first
five years, can you start itagain, or can you start
something like that?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I feel weird about it , frankly, just because it's
just like oh okay, I'm throwingthis wrench into everything you
know, but that's a horrible wayto say it, but it's you know,
I'm kind of disrupting things.
Again, I would feel like if Imade it so obvious, I guess, as
opposed to that, but I think Iwill talk more about it, though,
(21:42):
for sure, yeah, I thinkwhatever you know, whatever
feels comfortable, you have tofind that.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
But gosh, I would hope that it's never too late.
You know that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
But I'm with you, jenny, I would feel weird.
You know, here we are goinginto this, we're into the sixth
year of Alec and I don't thinkthat I could just put a plate
you know a table, a chair out,that just, for example.
I couldn't just put a chair outand be like, hey, yeah, I would
feel awkward about that.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
But it makes perfect sense to say you know y'all, I
have been in just a fog and nowI'm at this other place and I
want to be intentional withhonoring that Alec isn't here.
I mean, that's perfectly fine,you're.
You know?
I think don't put you knowthese parameters on yourself.
You're sitting at a table withpeople who absolutely love each
(22:34):
of you.
Yes, and loved Alec and lovedSydney.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And if they hadn't met him?
Like I know, jenny, you just,both your boys, or just one of
them, got engaged.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Yeah, just one, Logan Just one.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, he just got engaged and we can talk about it
.
Now we can talk about it now.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's not a secret.
We can talk about it now.
It's not a secret.
We can talk about it now.
We can talk about it now.
It's not a secret.
We can talk about it now.
It's not a secret.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Well, that's good, you won't allow this one to air
until it's like this no, it'sall good.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
And she said yes.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So she said yes, which is great.
You know like we bring newpeople into, you know our family
traditions and I just hope, andwould pray for each of you,
that you find a way that feelsgood to.
I just gosh for the rest of mylife.
I would encourage any newgriever or old griever there is.
It is never too late because, Imean, we all go through these
(23:36):
different stages and all of asudden you have a, you have a
better capacity to to face anddo things that you know we just
weren't strong enough to do theyear prior.
Yeah, so give ourselves grace,I guess, is our message.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
Yeah, yes, However, whatever form that is right.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, and if you decide not to do it, then you
know, maybe it's a quiet spaceand you, you know journal a
little letter, or you, at night,before bed, you say a prayer,
or you just talk directly toyour child.
I mean, there's lots of ways tohonor them without you know
changing any of the currenttraditions too.
And who you are, you got to betrue to you know changing any of
(24:16):
the current traditions to andwho you are.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You got to be true to who you are, so Exactly yes.
Well, so glad you got back onhere with us.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I know this, I like talking, you know, because it's
one.
I like talking just in general.
But two, you know, it's likeyou guys said at the very
beginning, we don't have toexplain it to each other, it's
just we had a bad day and bothof you would know exactly what I
was talking about, without anyquestions.
So it's comforting, like yousaid it's very comforting.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yes, for sure it is absolutely, and thanks for
sharing y'all as it isAbsolutely, and thanks for
sharing y'all.
We know that as women, we wantto offer comfort and this
coziness to our families in thisseason of Thanksgiving and I
(25:09):
just want to encourage y'all andour listeners just that it's
okay to just be thankful whereyou are in that moment and it's
okay just to take it exactlywhere you are.
Like Amy says, feel the feelsand give yourself grace and lean
in when you can and, you know,take it one day at a time.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Well, happy Thanksgiving everybody.
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