February 26, 2025 • 33 mins
The heartbreaking story of Max Gruver sheds light on the often unseen dangers of hazing in college settings. His mother, Rae Ann, joins Michele and Amy to share not only the tragedy that took her son's life but also the mission that has risen from her love of Max. Together with hosts, Rae Ann discusses Max's vibrant spirit and the circumstances that led to his untimely death due to hazing rituals that demanded he consume deadly amounts of alcohol.
In this episode, we explore what hazing really looks like and what we can do to prevent another tragedy from occurring. Rae Ann highlights the pivotal moment on that tragic night when a simple call to 911 could have made all the difference. She passionately advocates for young adults to have the courage to intervene when they see someone in danger, and she shares the necessary steps individuals can take to safeguard others' lives.
The discussion also touches on the powerful work Rae Ann and her family have undertaken to create awareness about hazing, addressing young people directly to share Max's story, and encourage them to speak out against dangerous practices. Her insights into the grieving process reveal how advocacy can serve as a therapeutic journey, finding purpose through pain.
Join us for this emotional conversation and become a part of the movement to raise awareness and prevent hazing. Together, we can honor Max's legacy and ensure that no other family has to experience such profound loss.
Please visit: www.maxgruverfoundation.com for more information about the Gruver's advocacy and fundraising events.
Visit the Warrior Moms' website to read more about our book we are writing and to reach out to us with feedback and potential podcast topics: www.warriormoms.me
With love always,
Michele & Amy
Warrior Moms
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
We'd love to hear from our followers!
Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
Facebook: Warrior Moms-The Club No One Wants to Be In
Instagram: WarriorMoms.SurvivingChildLoss
With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I am Amy Durham and we have our dear friend Miss
Raeann here to talk about Maxand she.
They have a big 5k run comingup soon so we wanted to kind of
just talk about that and all thethings so we're so glad to hear
from you Well, thanks forhaving me back again.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I always love being on your podcast and talking to
you, lovely ladies, so thank youonce again for thinking of us.
We love it.
So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yes, well, tell us you know.
I know you have an episodewhere we go.
You know much further in depthabout Max and the tragedy, but
let's just give a little bit ofbackdrop.
Let's just start with who Maxwas and how missed he is.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, so my son, max Groover, he was a freshman, he
was 18 years old and he, youknow, went away to college.
He went to LSU and he, you know, went away to college.
He went to LSU and he, you know, went right through rush when
he got there to join afraternity so he could, you know
, meet new people and stuff likethat at a really big school and
he really liked several and hehe landed up deciding that he
(01:18):
wanted to join Phi Delta, thetaand you know he went into that
process very, you know, open andhappy and really loved his
pledge brothers and all thatkind of good stuff.
And you know he went into thatprocess very, you know, open and
happy and really loved hispledge brothers and all that
kind of good stuff.
And, um, he was real happy.
Max was a real happy kid, verylaid back, very, very easy going
, just, you know, really justwas one of those people that was
just kind of like everybody'sfriend and always wanted
(01:39):
everyone included and stuff and,um, you know, just a good kid.
And unfortunately, um, duringthe 29 days that he was there,
um, the fraternity was hazingtheir new members and, um, there
were several things that wefound out later.
That happened during thosecouple of weeks but, um, on
(02:00):
September 13th they had an eventthat they again in a nutshell,
not the whole night, butbasically they forced Max and
the other pledges to consumecopious amounts of 190 proof
grain alcohol.
You know Max consumed so muchalcohol that he landed up
(02:25):
obviously with alcohol poisoning.
He had a blood alcohol of .495,which is six times the legal
limit, and he died on thefraternity couch that night.
And you know the wholesituation is very
unfortunate.
Obviously no one called 911.
They knew Max was in trouble.
(02:48):
He was cold and clammy, hislips, his fingers were turning
blue, he had the weak pulse andall that.
And nobody called 911.
They were too chicken, to behonest, too scared, they were
going to get in trouble and theyunfortunately let a life go
because of that.
So our big mission since thenis to raise awareness about
(03:10):
hazing and what it is and whatto watch out for and what you
can do to stop it or walk out onit and feel empowered with all
that, and then also to call 911.
In these situations Don't playRussian roulette with another
person's life, like let themedical you know medical
professional come in there andhelp and um take care of that
(03:32):
situation, Cause I mean, for allwe know, if they had just
called 9-1-1 that night, maxcould be here.
So again, always err on thatside of caution.
You know You're on that side ofcaution, you know is it a
there's a law to like?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
no fault for calling Right.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
There is Most of the states have a medical amnesty
law, that good Samaritan law andwhat it states in there is if
you call when a person's like inperil like Max was and no
matter what's been going on, ifyou're at a party or wherever
and you've been drinking oryou've smoked pot or you did
whatever, if you call 911, youstay with that person.
(04:11):
You don't clean anything up, youtell the emergency personnel or
the police or both everythingthat's gone on.
Don't hide anything, don'tchange anything, just let them
know.
And if you're cooperating inthat whole situation, they will
not hold you liable.
That law is there to alsoprotect you, so you will go
ahead and do the right thing andnot worry about oh my God, I'm
(04:34):
going to get in trouble for this.
And then you make a baddecision, which is I might
sacrifice this person's lifebecause I'm too worried and I
don't actually think that's mostpeople's reasoning, but they
don't really realize this personreally could die if I don't
call my mom, and they've youknow, you know, most likely also
been drinking, so theirjudgment is impaired too.
(05:00):
And you know, I mean I alwaysthink about it too.
It's like imagine, like I meanif you were sitting there and
checking someone's pulse andchecking somebody's breathing
and you you already know in yourgut something's so bad like,
like you're nervous and all that.
I mean what are you reallygoing to do when that person's
pulse stops?
Then I mean you're just call,call before you even get to that
situation.
Get an ambulance there.
They will transport right tothe ER and they will get IV
(05:21):
fluids in them and they will,you know, sober these people up
and they will be able to monitorthem.
You may be also impaired at thetime too.
Are not going to what if youpass out?
And you know you're not goingto be able to keep monitoring
that person.
So again, it's just err on thatside of caution.
Call 911.
I mean, what I would do ifsomeone had called 911 and Max
(05:44):
was still here?
He?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
could have been.
He could have been.
I mean, he could have beensaved.
You don't know.
You don't know, but yes, butchances would have been a lot
stronger had someone called.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yes, you know, and too, I think for us too as the
parents, it's like you know, whywouldn't you call 9-1-1 for
this person that you know is introuble?
And like that always kills ustoo, like the hazing is horrible
, that someone would treat yourchild like that or anyone like
that, but then when that personis in you know need of help and
(06:18):
you don't call 911, like how doyou not call 911 to help that
person?
And that just kills me too.
Like just there's like a doublewhammy with it, like you're
screwed up over here and nowyou're even more screwing up
because you won't even get thekid help after you've put him in
this predicament yeah, you know, well and right and I know I've
said this time and time againto you, or I've thought it at
(06:40):
least is I think that kidsespecially don't understand that
it really can happen.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know, I mean, they just don't.
I don't think that they do, Idon't think that they think that
that's going to happen.
They're going to drink too muchand then die.
I just don't think, and that'swhy I think y'all's mission is
so important in the high schoolsand the colleges is because, oh
, you just drink too much,you're going to throw up, you're
going to wake up and it doesn'talways happen like that?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It does not always happen and it happens a lot more
than people think, even withoutthe hazing part of it involved.
But people over drinking andbeing encouraged to over drink,
and then the alcohol, you knowpoisoning, that goes on and um
and people dying from it is justit's, you know it's, it is
really bad and people do need tobe aware of it, and just that
(07:29):
like taking care of yourself,you know and saying no, like I
don't, I don't need another shotor I don't need to do this and
I've had enough, like you haveto know yourself too, and all of
these kinds of situations.
So it's just.
It is trying to make thatthings more aware, right, just?
Really think about it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
As I listened to you.
I you know, of course Amy and Ihave been, you know, in your
shoes in terms of losing a child, and I know those first months
and and the first two years howunbelievably painful I mean,
when all of us talk about howthey're just, are not words.
I just, whenever I listen toyou, I am just in such awe of
(08:12):
the just, your love for Max andand the drive that that really
you must have pushed through toto seek that very first
opportunity to have aconversation with the school,
with the fraternity or sorority.
Can you just talk us through,like, how did you get to that
step?
And and, um, just, yeah, talkus through that.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I just right at the beginning.
I mean literally.
I mean I say this when we dopresentations.
But, um, the night before weburied Max, I was looking for a
journal.
I probably have talked about iton your podcast before, but we
found this journal.
I did find the journal.
It wasn't the one I was lookingfor, but it was another one and
it had a paper in there that hehad written on blessings when
(08:56):
he was 16.
And that last paragraph endedwith his quote that we use
everywhere.
But it's.
You know, god works in funnyways.
He does bad things sometimesbecause in the end they are good
.
Something bad can happen to you, but in the end it may make you
better.
He does bad to ultimatelycreate good.
And I got chills right now Isaw that.
(09:16):
I burst into tears.
I ran to my sister.
I was like read what Max wrote,look what he wrote.
Like we have to do something.
We have to do something tochange this culture.
We have to.
This is horrible.
Like we have to make somethinggood out of this.
And that is literally what hasbeen our driving force since
then.
It's just I could sit here anddwell in the negative, right, we
(09:39):
all could, and some days I do,but I really try hard not to.
I've got to find that good outof this bad, which is, if I
can't help somebody else inthese situations make a better
decision and call 911 or helpthat friend or deter a hazing
situation or whatever the casemight be.
(09:59):
If I change somebody's mindabout any of those things, then
I've done the best I can inlight of losing my son, and I do
it all for him and for all ofour kids.
Like it's just.
I just don't want to see thesekinds of things happen to
somebody else, because it'ssenseless and pointless and 100%
preventable.
You know, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So where did you like , what was?
What was the first place thatyou reached to have a
conversation and then take us tothat first time being on stage
in front of people.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Well, actually my sister started at first, like I
mean, we knew eventually I wouldspeak or we were hoping.
I don't really know that.
We knew I shouldn't say that,but my sister started speaking
in Miami to a couple highschools there and her and a
friend of mine from high schoolput a presentation together to
take to my friend's high schooland my sister did it there and
(10:54):
she did it a few times.
It was really kind of amazinghow it all transpired.
Again, somebody's working upthere to make all this happen,
right.
And then in May of 2018, so youknow, that end of that school
year after Max died, um blessedTrinity, which is where Max went
to school and graduated.
(11:14):
The year before, um had Steveand I come to speak to the
seniors at their seniorbreakfast and that was the first
time Steve and I ever spoke andit was very moving and and then
obviously, we know a bunch ofthe kids in the class because
they're all seniors and theygrew up with Max and all that
kind of stuff.
But but it was also just agreat experience to be able to
(11:38):
share Max's story and what wehad been through, but then also
to tell these kids like, in thenext few months, you're about to
go off and these are the thingsyou might experience and you,
you know, do the right thing.
And the stories we heard afterthat were just so incredible and
that we'd been hearing aboutpeople who were wearing Max's,
you know wristbands and you knowsomebody that was like I
(12:00):
stepped in when I saw somebodytrying to force somebody to take
more shots and I told them hey,no more.
Or someone on their own lookingat the bracelet and was like at
a party and like you know what,I don't need another drink, or
somebody was somebody passed outin the bushes and you know
someone saying, oh, don't callnine one, one, don't call.
(12:20):
And they're like, no, we'recalling nine one one because of
Max Groover.
So those kinds of storiesstarted rolling in about how
people were remembering justMax's story and like wait a
minute, maybe I need to make adifferent decision on this.
And that just keeps you going,like those stories and that push
forward.
And then we started getting youknow requests from like
(12:43):
colleges and fraternities andsororities and then, like I said
, it just kept building fromthere and we would meet so many
great young adults 18 to 20, 22,that wanted this hazing culture
to change.
And they were in it for theright reasons and we saw all
these people with the rightreasons of wanting to be in a
(13:04):
brotherhood, a sisterhood, ateammate, and I think if we
hadn't met those people too, youwould just not see the positive
side of things and how theywant to stand up against it and
change it.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
And we were there to help that and if we can help
that again, we'll keep doingwhat we're doing to keep that
moving forward journey and sortof kind of aligning, maybe just
(13:37):
being able to kind of face someof this together a little bit,
because that's that's reallyhard as couples, of course, is
we all grieve on different pacesand so forth.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
What did that do for y'all, I think, in that time
when, at the beginning, andSteve would travel a little bit
with me more than than he doesnow and we would, you know,
present together or with someother, like couple of friends
that also had lost their childto hazing, and, um, honestly, I
think in some ways it was it, itwas good for both of us, cause
(14:04):
it was like it was a place totake your grief and like, get it
out there and share it.
And I guess I mean it's so rawand open and honest.
Even tonight I'm presentingtonight and I don't I could cry
through half his story.
You know, you just never knowLike, but again, it's part of it
is like, it was almost like youcould.
I can't ever say that word.
You know what word I'm saying.
(14:24):
Put it in the box a little bitand, like I can, let it flow
there.
(14:48):
Yeah, yes, I can never say it,but you know, get it out there
and you know and take that time.
But then it was like then Icould center back a little bit,
but it was a.
It was a great place to to puta lot of that grief and I kind
of feel like that bit of thattoo right, like we just had that
place in those presentationsthat you just really could get
some of that out the sadness,the anger, the happiness too.
You know, and you nailed it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I think that talking I think a lot of us that are
advocate for different thingsand are able to talk about our
tragedy and our children andstuff like that I honestly
believe that we heal a littlebit.
I believe that we heal a littlebit every time we talk.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yes A little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
every time we speak there's a little bit more.
That heals just a little bit,but then the Band-Aid can be
ripped off at any moment.
But at least we're givingourselves the time and the space
to speak and do, and I justthink that sometimes advocating
for something in honor of ourchildren helps the heart so much
(15:43):
.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, I think you just said it great right there.
That's exactly it, I think.
I think that's exactly what'sbeen continuing me going like
this for seven and a half years,and it is that it's it's to be
able to share in Max's life.
I get to talk about him at thebeginning of the presentation
and I, you know, I want you toknow him Like I knew him.
(16:04):
I want you to know he's justlike you guys out there in the
audience.
You know he's, he was just agreat kid going off to college
too, like sitting, just like youare, you know, so, um, and then
you share in the pain too, andand and I get to talk about it
and freely talk about it, youknow, and I think it helps.
I do think it helps, and andagain, advocating for some, a
(16:28):
change to make something betterfor other people and make them
aware, like the work you do, andI mean it's just, it is it's
just.
I think it helps our hearts alot.
I think they're never going tobe amended, but I think it helps
.
You know, stitch it up a littlebit until it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
A little bit, yes, until it breaks again.
If the thing breaks through,yeah.
So in order to, y'all are doinga 5k run coming up.
I know y'all do severalfundraisers throughout the year.
What's your favorite?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Which one's your favorite, oh, I don't know.
You know what we do the two bigones which we do do the races
so fun.
We have a great morning everytime.
That morning, and it's just, Ilove seeing everybody come out.
This year, you know, it'scoming up on March 1st and a
couple of days, we are like at296 runners right now and, um,
(17:17):
you know, it's just veryexciting.
We always have a great turnoutand everybody's just, you know,
there to support and just thefact that in all these seven
years I can't believe it's sevenyears but people still support
us so much and back us and andwant to help us keep doing good
things for other people.
So that's huge, you know.
(17:38):
And so we do love the race.
But then in August we do thatreally fun, you know, we have
the over at deep roots andRoswell we have that great wine
tasting with an auction, andthis last year we added in the
corn hole.
I mean, the corn hole was somuch fun.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Oh my gosh this year and it was such a blast, Raeann.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So fun, so fun and we're so excited about this year
.
We've got some big plans.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Have you all been practicing right now?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Well, you know my whole family's on a cornhole
league on Wednesday nights overat Gate City.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So I practice every week.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I am not good but yes , we practice every week
technically.
But yeah, we're super excited.
We've got a lot of big plansfor this August.
With you know, deep Roots isgoing to do some more stuff.
It's going to be great Like wecan't wait.
So that's like I think, august17th or 18th right around there,
but it's really a fun afternoontoo, right.
And then actually in a couple ofweeks, a friend of mine, this
(18:38):
wonderful guy Max.
He owns Safe Haven Gym and hecalled us.
He likes to do stuff with localnonprofits and he's supported
us for years.
I just love him and hisorganization and he's going to
do a fundraiser which we'reabout to put out with working
out and just all this stuff.
So that's going to do afundraiser which we're about to
put out with working out andjust all this stuff.
So that's going to be fun whenhe's sending me over a little
(18:58):
one page on that, so you'llstart seeing things about that.
I love to do the little ones inthe big fundraisers.
It's just again, you'recreating the awareness, you're
getting out there and talking topeople and making sure they
really know what's going on andyou know this is it.
What can we do to help, youknow, and so it's good, it's
good, it's been really good andwe've really expanded.
(19:19):
I might be jumping ahead ofmyself now.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
No, keep going.
Yeah, that was our question.
Is is keep going.
You know, like what is it thatyou know?
Besides just the not just, butbesides the education, how else
does?
What else do you do with thefoundation?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Well, actually, well back with the actually the
education pieces.
You know, we the last severalyears have been really focused
mostly on, you know, thecolleges and the organizations
and stuff like that on thehigher ed side and organizations
and stuff like that on thehigher ed side.
But the last like two yearswe've really started focusing on
high schools, because I thinkit's very important to get to
(20:00):
the high school student,especially those high school
seniors, and, like this springsemester, I really focused on
high schools and I think we'respeaking at like 20 high schools
.
High schools are high schoolorganizations this spring, which
is just amazing to me.
It's really just each year itkeeps expanding and expanding,
and expanding and we've justgotten a lot of great feedback
(20:21):
from the public schools, fromthe private schools in our area.
I have some schools in Miamiwe've spoken with over in
Nebraska.
Somebody just requested for usto come out to Oregon.
So I'm just very like I hate tosay the word excited when
you're talking about this, but Iam excited.
This is what we've been workingfor for you know, max's
Foundation and the advocacy, andI just Well, I'm in awe, I'm in
(20:44):
awe that it has spread.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I mean, it's only been seven years, you know, and
it's gone all the way to theother side of the United.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
States.
You know, yeah.
So I mean it's just great, likeit's, and that's like where
we're kind of like.
I mean, obviously the collegeswe will definitely keep doing,
but like, like this spring I waslike I really want to focus on
these high schools so we reallyget a landing in there, like we
do have with the higher ed andstuff and it.
You know it's, it's working,it's great.
(21:12):
You know so.
And we work with Phi Delta,theta, on that other high school
program.
So we have two.
It's either me and Steve doingour version or I do speak.
Like just a week ago I was at aYMSL group and the Phi Delta
from Georgia Tech came and spokewith me and it's, you know, a
peer to peer type presentation.
So I mean these, the moms lovedit, the kids loved it, the
(21:34):
seniors loved it I shouldn'tcall them kids, but the young
men loved it, like just becauseit was very interactive and
you're talking to guys.
That is going to be you in ayear.
I mean that's going to be youand that's been a really good
program too.
So I like seeing these thingsthat we've kind of been planning
, you know, for the last fewyears really coming to fruition
right Like they're there,they're happening and and I
(21:55):
think it's great, it'sincredible work.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Absolutely incredible .
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, thank you.
You ladies are sweet.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Well um what advice would you give other grieving
moms or parents about you knowmoms or parents about?
You know just how do you leanin and and um you know, brace
yourself for being so vulnerableand just afraid.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I mean public speaking is is certainly hard,
and just yeah, Were you afraidof public speaking before, or
were you like it's no big deal?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Um, I wouldn't say I was afraid of it.
I remember in college I loved it, Like I liked my public
speaking class, but I was anurse, it wasn't like I needed
to keep doing public speaking,so it was kind of funny when I
first started speaking.
I mean, yeah, I definitely, youknow, get nervous, but there is
something, obviously, whenyou're so passionate about
something to be able to stand upthere and speaking about it,
(22:53):
that makes the difference too.
I mean, and you feel it, like Ican feel it when I'm speaking,
and it's it's a different tone,it's a different.
You know, and I'm not trying tolecture them or you know, no,
you're being bad kid, no, I mean, it's just my, it's just taking
your passion and you want themto feel it and I think they do
Right and it's just, you know, I, I don't know it, just I guess
(23:17):
it's I'm kind of natural at it,but I'm natural at it because I
am so passionate about it.
Like if you had me going upthere to I don't know, talk
about something else, I'd belike I'd probably be stuttering
and I don't know what to say andI've run off the stage.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Well, and you know, I've I've gone to your
presentations and I mean, youknow, here you give this and it
was that particular one you andSteve had given it together and,
um, it was just amazing to seethe long line that just
instantly started after you weredone.
You know that they, they wantedthe conversation to continue
(23:52):
and to have that face to faceand to say thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
It was that was so.
I mean equally moving to me aswatching y, when those students
come up and some come up theywant to hug you or about
somebody else that they knowthis has happened to, or maybe
they had a sibling that passedaway for some reason and they
want to talk to you about that.
Or some of them come up and say, oh my God, you remind me so
(24:40):
much of my mom, or I can'timagine my mom doing this, but
thank you for doing that.
Like it's just, there's thatconnection there and it's again.
It's very moving and again,another thing that makes you you
like I'm reaching them and Iwant to keep reaching them like
this and you're doing god's work.
Yeah, yeah, keep moving forwardwith it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, 100 uh, interrupted michelle's question
to you earlier.
What advice do you have?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
good job.
That's scary.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
IDD is on fire sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
But just yeah, the advice you would have to other
grieving parents.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
you know wanting to do something but maybe a little
nervous about it you know, Ihave a friend who just lost her
son this past um fall really sadstory and um um from gun
violence, and she definitelywants to advocate for her son,
(25:45):
and I do keep talking to herabout it.
You know, and again it's sortof like a you need this time,
right now too, though, to grieve, have those plans, and she's
doing some things.
But I'm like, and again it'ssort of like a, you need this
time, right now too, though, togrieve, have those plans, and
she's doing some things, but I'mlike, don't they don't put in
the cart before the horse, right, like, like it'll happen,
naturally it will.
But, right you, we all neededthat time.
We need that time, um, causeit's a lot once you really start
(26:09):
doing a lot of that advocacywork and getting out there and
doing stuff.
But that energy it will takethat I also tell her.
It takes that grief energy andhelps move it to something that
you're trying to help somebodyelse with and hopefully prevent
some gun violence with someoneelse and those kinds of things,
and that will all come.
(26:29):
It just doesn't have to comeright now and listen to yourself
, right, like I don't know how,what made me finally figure out.
Okay, I was ready to speak inMay, after Max had died in
September, but I knew I guess Iknew blessed Trinity was where I
would want to start and um, andbeing there with, I think, a
community obviously that we areso close with and so close with
(26:53):
those students and um, so thathelped me.
You know, kind of do it.
But, um, again, I think you haveto listen to yourself, um, and
go with like kind of just rollwith how it starts, cause ours
started off right Very, verysmall with giving out the
wristbands to, you know Max'sfriends that were requesting
(27:14):
them across the country, andthen other chapters started
asking us and then they weretelling Max's story in their
chapter meetings and giving outMax's wristbands, and that's
like what started it, right,they?
Everything always usuallystarts off small, and then it's
just how you keep rolling withit and just allow the rolling
forward, but not withoverwhelming yourself, cause I
(27:35):
think that's the other thing wecan all do is there was plenty
of times, I'm sure, I was at thebrink of losing, losing it, you
know, because you are so griefstricken and then you're
stressing yourself out aboutthese things you're doing, but
you want to do them.
But again, out about thesethings you're doing, but you
want to do them, but again thatall comes at a cost.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know to the rest of your family.
That's what happened to me wasI was like I have to do
something, I have to dosomething, and then you start
doing it.
And then I was like three and ahalf years in and I completely
shut down, like I had to back upeverything and just and now you
know I just went in too big,too fast, too much, too too much
(28:16):
and I had to take a step backand realize I don't, I can't be
in the trenches.
That was our.
I can't be in the trenches.
I can be back here doing what Ineeded.
And it took a while, just likewith you, it's taken a while to
figure out that groove and whereyou need to be.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yes, and where you want it to be.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And it doesn't.
And this is something that Ihad a hard time with and I still
have a hard time with, becausethis is who we are is it doesn't
have to be big, it doesn't justbe mail and wristbands.
It does not have to be big.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And that's where I know and you're doing and you're
helping someone like I mean,you're, you're doing what you
feel you need to do.
You know, for African, let's doit.
And you're helping so manypeople, like when you do his
pizza party yeah, you know partyand and all that you feel after
you come out of that.
I mean that's huge, you know,and that's what it's about.
(29:15):
And that again, right therethere's like something very
passionate and hey, maybe thatkeeps growing each year or you
start something else, but youjust let it go.
Naturally, you just how itneeds to go, and it doesn't
matter big or small, and I thinkCOVID helped me too.
Like, I think us having to halteverything the way we did, I
think that's pretty much like Iwas probably really very, very
(29:37):
burnt out at that time andprobably really ready to run for
the hills.
But COVID, of for also some ofthis you could.
You're running from it.
Right, you're kind of runningfrom the grief a little bit and
(29:59):
the tragedy of what's happened.
And COVID makes you face itagain Like I wasn't, I couldn't
be like, oh, I got to go travelagain.
Like, do you know what I mean?
Like, right, you had to sitwith it.
Yeah, you had to kind of sitwith it and and then regroup,
and then figure out, okay, whatis my next game plan here, and
then roll with it.
And you know what?
(30:19):
There's no right or wronganswers.
It's what you have to do foryou and your family, and all
that, and, and yeah, doing bigadvocacy, doesn't you know?
Yeah, I mean you got to travelall across the country.
You know, it could be mailingwristbands, it could be, you
know, going to some port groupsand telling them about your
(30:40):
story or your son's story, orMax's.
You know what I mean Likewhatever it might be, it's all
for them, it's all good.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's all moving forward as long as you're moving
forward.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yes, Well, what last question?
What?
What do you think um Max thinksof all of this, and and his mom
and dad that are out therehelping people.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
I think he thinks we're crazy.
Honestly, I think I tell I saythis all the time.
I think he's like looking causeagain.
If you guys like knew him, Iknow, you know him, but you know
, if you knew him, he I mean hewould just be like probably
shaking his head with that goofygrin and just like what are you
doing?
And all this for like and kindof like, all this for me Like,
why me Like?
What are you?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
doing yeah, like that humble spirit of it all.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Like, like, like, like.
Okay, Like you know, just, Ijust don't, I don't know.
I mean, I think he smiles andhe's, he's like way to go, but I
think, at the end of the day, Ithink he is a little like you
guys are nuts and thank you, but, um, I can't believe you did
all this.
You know, because of whathappened to me.
I do.
I do think he thinks that.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, which is fun, cause it's kind of, you know,
like you still feel like there'sthis banter a bit.
You know, yes, parent and child.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Oh, 100% yes.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, raeann, it's always so much fun to talk to
you.
I miss seeing you, I know.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
We've got to get together.
I know let's do another dinner.
I know I've missed so many ofour Warrior Mom meetings, but
let's try to just do a dinneragain, like we did a few months
ago.
I would love to see everybody.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I miss everybody so much.
Me too.
All right, well, thank you somuch, yes, and thank you all.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
All the be-in-here listeners out there in the world
.
We will be back next week withsomeone else.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And if you want to reach out to us, we have a
website now, warriormomsme, andyou can put in your name and
email and reach out to us.
We'd love to hear feedback andeven if you have topics that
you're interested in hearing ustalk about, we would love to
hear from you.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
We would love to hear from y'all.
Yes, we need ideas for topicsAlways.
Thanks guys, see you later.
Thanks ladies, bye.
Hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I am Amy Durham and we have our dear friend Miss
Raeann here to talk about Maxand she.
They have a big 5k run comingup soon so we wanted to kind of
just talk about that and all thethings so we're so glad to hear
from you Well, thanks forhaving me back again.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I always love being on your podcast and talking to
you, lovely ladies, so thank youonce again for thinking of us.
We love it.
So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yes, well, tell us you know.
I know you have an episodewhere we go.
You know much further in depthabout Max and the tragedy, but
let's just give a little bit ofbackdrop.
Let's just start with who Maxwas and how missed he is.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, so my son, max Groover, he was a freshman, he
was 18 years old and he, youknow, went away to college.
He went to LSU and he, you know, went away to college.
He went to LSU and he, you know, went right through rush when
he got there to join afraternity so he could, you know
, meet new people and stuff likethat at a really big school and
he really liked several and hehe landed up deciding that he
(01:18):
wanted to join Phi Delta, thetaand you know he went into that
process very, you know, open andhappy and really loved his
pledge brothers and all thatkind of good stuff.
And you know he went into thatprocess very, you know, open and
happy and really loved hispledge brothers and all that
kind of good stuff.
And, um, he was real happy.
Max was a real happy kid, verylaid back, very, very easy going
, just, you know, really justwas one of those people that was
just kind of like everybody'sfriend and always wanted
(01:39):
everyone included and stuff and,um, you know, just a good kid.
And unfortunately, um, duringthe 29 days that he was there,
um, the fraternity was hazingtheir new members and, um, there
were several things that wefound out later.
That happened during thosecouple of weeks but, um, on
(02:00):
September 13th they had an eventthat they again in a nutshell,
not the whole night, butbasically they forced Max and
the other pledges to consumecopious amounts of 190 proof
grain alcohol.
You know Max consumed so muchalcohol that he landed up
(02:25):
obviously with alcohol poisoning.
He had a blood alcohol of .495,which is six times the legal
limit, and he died on thefraternity couch that night.
And you know the wholesituation is very
unfortunate.
Obviously no one called 911.
They knew Max was in trouble.
(02:48):
He was cold and clammy, hislips, his fingers were turning
blue, he had the weak pulse andall that.
And nobody called 911.
They were too chicken, to behonest, too scared, they were
going to get in trouble and theyunfortunately let a life go
because of that.
So our big mission since thenis to raise awareness about
(03:10):
hazing and what it is and whatto watch out for and what you
can do to stop it or walk out onit and feel empowered with all
that, and then also to call 911.
In these situations Don't playRussian roulette with another
person's life, like let themedical you know medical
professional come in there andhelp and um take care of that
(03:32):
situation, Cause I mean, for allwe know, if they had just
called 9-1-1 that night, maxcould be here.
So again, always err on thatside of caution.
You know You're on that side ofcaution, you know is it a
there's a law to like?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
no fault for calling Right.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
There is Most of the states have a medical amnesty
law, that good Samaritan law andwhat it states in there is if
you call when a person's like inperil like Max was and no
matter what's been going on, ifyou're at a party or wherever
and you've been drinking oryou've smoked pot or you did
whatever, if you call 911, youstay with that person.
(04:11):
You don't clean anything up, youtell the emergency personnel or
the police or both everythingthat's gone on.
Don't hide anything, don'tchange anything, just let them
know.
And if you're cooperating inthat whole situation, they will
not hold you liable.
That law is there to alsoprotect you, so you will go
ahead and do the right thing andnot worry about oh my God, I'm
(04:34):
going to get in trouble for this.
And then you make a baddecision, which is I might
sacrifice this person's lifebecause I'm too worried and I
don't actually think that's mostpeople's reasoning, but they
don't really realize this personreally could die if I don't
call my mom, and they've youknow, you know, most likely also
been drinking, so theirjudgment is impaired too.
(05:00):
And you know, I mean I alwaysthink about it too.
It's like imagine, like I meanif you were sitting there and
checking someone's pulse andchecking somebody's breathing
and you you already know in yourgut something's so bad like,
like you're nervous and all that.
I mean what are you reallygoing to do when that person's
pulse stops?
Then I mean you're just call,call before you even get to that
situation.
Get an ambulance there.
They will transport right tothe ER and they will get IV
(05:21):
fluids in them and they will,you know, sober these people up
and they will be able to monitorthem.
You may be also impaired at thetime too.
Are not going to what if youpass out?
And you know you're not goingto be able to keep monitoring
that person.
So again, it's just err on thatside of caution.
Call 911.
I mean, what I would do ifsomeone had called 911 and Max
(05:44):
was still here?
He?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
could have been.
He could have been.
I mean, he could have beensaved.
You don't know.
You don't know, but yes, butchances would have been a lot
stronger had someone called.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yes, you know, and too, I think for us too as the
parents, it's like you know, whywouldn't you call 9-1-1 for
this person that you know is introuble?
And like that always kills ustoo, like the hazing is horrible
, that someone would treat yourchild like that or anyone like
that, but then when that personis in you know need of help and
(06:18):
you don't call 911, like how doyou not call 911 to help that
person?
And that just kills me too.
Like just there's like a doublewhammy with it, like you're
screwed up over here and nowyou're even more screwing up
because you won't even get thekid help after you've put him in
this predicament yeah, you know, well and right and I know I've
said this time and time againto you, or I've thought it at
(06:40):
least is I think that kidsespecially don't understand that
it really can happen.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
You know, I mean, they just don't.
I don't think that they do, Idon't think that they think that
that's going to happen.
They're going to drink too muchand then die.
I just don't think, and that'swhy I think y'all's mission is
so important in the high schoolsand the colleges is because, oh
, you just drink too much,you're going to throw up, you're
going to wake up and it doesn'talways happen like that?
Speaker 3 (07:09):
It does not always happen and it happens a lot more
than people think, even withoutthe hazing part of it involved.
But people over drinking andbeing encouraged to over drink,
and then the alcohol, you knowpoisoning, that goes on and um
and people dying from it is justit's, you know it's, it is
really bad and people do need tobe aware of it, and just that
(07:29):
like taking care of yourself,you know and saying no, like I
don't, I don't need another shotor I don't need to do this and
I've had enough, like you haveto know yourself too, and all of
these kinds of situations.
So it's just.
It is trying to make thatthings more aware, right, just?
Really think about it.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
As I listened to you.
I you know, of course Amy and Ihave been, you know, in your
shoes in terms of losing a child, and I know those first months
and and the first two years howunbelievably painful I mean,
when all of us talk about howthey're just, are not words.
I just, whenever I listen toyou, I am just in such awe of
(08:12):
the just, your love for Max andand the drive that that really
you must have pushed through toto seek that very first
opportunity to have aconversation with the school,
with the fraternity or sorority.
Can you just talk us through,like, how did you get to that
step?
And and, um, just, yeah, talkus through that.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
I just right at the beginning.
I mean literally.
I mean I say this when we dopresentations.
But, um, the night before weburied Max, I was looking for a
journal.
I probably have talked about iton your podcast before, but we
found this journal.
I did find the journal.
It wasn't the one I was lookingfor, but it was another one and
it had a paper in there that hehad written on blessings when
(08:56):
he was 16.
And that last paragraph endedwith his quote that we use
everywhere.
But it's.
You know, god works in funnyways.
He does bad things sometimesbecause in the end they are good
.
Something bad can happen to you, but in the end it may make you
better.
He does bad to ultimatelycreate good.
And I got chills right now Isaw that.
(09:16):
I burst into tears.
I ran to my sister.
I was like read what Max wrote,look what he wrote.
Like we have to do something.
We have to do something tochange this culture.
We have to.
This is horrible.
Like we have to make somethinggood out of this.
And that is literally what hasbeen our driving force since
then.
It's just I could sit here anddwell in the negative, right, we
(09:39):
all could, and some days I do,but I really try hard not to.
I've got to find that good outof this bad, which is, if I
can't help somebody else inthese situations make a better
decision and call 911 or helpthat friend or deter a hazing
situation or whatever the casemight be.
(09:59):
If I change somebody's mindabout any of those things, then
I've done the best I can inlight of losing my son, and I do
it all for him and for all ofour kids.
Like it's just.
I just don't want to see thesekinds of things happen to
somebody else, because it'ssenseless and pointless and 100%
preventable.
You know, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So where did you like , what was?
What was the first place thatyou reached to have a
conversation and then take us tothat first time being on stage
in front of people.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Well, actually my sister started at first, like I
mean, we knew eventually I wouldspeak or we were hoping.
I don't really know that.
We knew I shouldn't say that,but my sister started speaking
in Miami to a couple highschools there and her and a
friend of mine from high schoolput a presentation together to
take to my friend's high schooland my sister did it there and
(10:54):
she did it a few times.
It was really kind of amazinghow it all transpired.
Again, somebody's working upthere to make all this happen,
right.
And then in May of 2018, so youknow, that end of that school
year after Max died, um blessedTrinity, which is where Max went
to school and graduated.
(11:14):
The year before, um had Steveand I come to speak to the
seniors at their seniorbreakfast and that was the first
time Steve and I ever spoke andit was very moving and and then
obviously, we know a bunch ofthe kids in the class because
they're all seniors and theygrew up with Max and all that
kind of stuff.
But but it was also just agreat experience to be able to
(11:38):
share Max's story and what wehad been through, but then also
to tell these kids like, in thenext few months, you're about to
go off and these are the thingsyou might experience and you,
you know, do the right thing.
And the stories we heard afterthat were just so incredible and
that we'd been hearing aboutpeople who were wearing Max's,
you know wristbands and you knowsomebody that was like I
(12:00):
stepped in when I saw somebodytrying to force somebody to take
more shots and I told them hey,no more.
Or someone on their own lookingat the bracelet and was like at
a party and like you know what,I don't need another drink, or
somebody was somebody passed outin the bushes and you know
someone saying, oh, don't callnine one, one, don't call.
(12:20):
And they're like, no, we'recalling nine one one because of
Max Groover.
So those kinds of storiesstarted rolling in about how
people were remembering justMax's story and like wait a
minute, maybe I need to make adifferent decision on this.
And that just keeps you going,like those stories and that push
forward.
And then we started getting youknow requests from like
(12:43):
colleges and fraternities andsororities and then, like I said
, it just kept building fromthere and we would meet so many
great young adults 18 to 20, 22,that wanted this hazing culture
to change.
And they were in it for theright reasons and we saw all
these people with the rightreasons of wanting to be in a
(13:04):
brotherhood, a sisterhood, ateammate, and I think if we
hadn't met those people too, youwould just not see the positive
side of things and how theywant to stand up against it and
change it.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
And we were there to help that and if we can help
that again, we'll keep doingwhat we're doing to keep that
moving forward journey and sortof kind of aligning, maybe just
(13:37):
being able to kind of face someof this together a little bit,
because that's that's reallyhard as couples, of course, is
we all grieve on different pacesand so forth.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
What did that do for y'all, I think, in that time
when, at the beginning, andSteve would travel a little bit
with me more than than he doesnow and we would, you know,
present together or with someother, like couple of friends
that also had lost their childto hazing, and, um, honestly, I
think in some ways it was it, itwas good for both of us, cause
(14:04):
it was like it was a place totake your grief and like, get it
out there and share it.
And I guess I mean it's so rawand open and honest.
Even tonight I'm presentingtonight and I don't I could cry
through half his story.
You know, you just never knowLike, but again, it's part of it
is like, it was almost like youcould.
I can't ever say that word.
You know what word I'm saying.
(14:24):
Put it in the box a little bitand, like I can, let it flow
there.
(14:48):
Yeah, yes, I can never say it,but you know, get it out there
and you know and take that time.
But then it was like then Icould center back a little bit,
but it was a.
It was a great place to to puta lot of that grief and I kind
of feel like that bit of thattoo right, like we just had that
place in those presentationsthat you just really could get
some of that out the sadness,the anger, the happiness too.
You know, and you nailed it.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
I think that talking I think a lot of us that are
advocate for different thingsand are able to talk about our
tragedy and our children andstuff like that I honestly
believe that we heal a littlebit.
I believe that we heal a littlebit every time we talk.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yes A little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
every time we speak there's a little bit more.
That heals just a little bit,but then the Band-Aid can be
ripped off at any moment.
But at least we're givingourselves the time and the space
to speak and do, and I justthink that sometimes advocating
for something in honor of ourchildren helps the heart so much
(15:43):
.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, I think you just said it great right there.
That's exactly it, I think.
I think that's exactly what'sbeen continuing me going like
this for seven and a half years,and it is that it's it's to be
able to share in Max's life.
I get to talk about him at thebeginning of the presentation
and I, you know, I want you toknow him Like I knew him.
(16:04):
I want you to know he's justlike you guys out there in the
audience.
You know he's, he was just agreat kid going off to college
too, like sitting, just like youare, you know, so, um, and then
you share in the pain too, andand and I get to talk about it
and freely talk about it, youknow, and I think it helps.
I do think it helps, and andagain, advocating for some, a
(16:28):
change to make something betterfor other people and make them
aware, like the work you do, andI mean it's just, it is it's
just.
I think it helps our hearts alot.
I think they're never going tobe amended, but I think it helps
.
You know, stitch it up a littlebit until it.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
A little bit, yes, until it breaks again.
If the thing breaks through,yeah.
So in order to, y'all are doinga 5k run coming up.
I know y'all do severalfundraisers throughout the year.
What's your favorite?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Which one's your favorite, oh, I don't know.
You know what we do the two bigones which we do do the races
so fun.
We have a great morning everytime.
That morning, and it's just, Ilove seeing everybody come out.
This year, you know, it'scoming up on March 1st and a
couple of days, we are like at296 runners right now and, um,
(17:17):
you know, it's just veryexciting.
We always have a great turnoutand everybody's just, you know,
there to support and just thefact that in all these seven
years I can't believe it's sevenyears but people still support
us so much and back us and andwant to help us keep doing good
things for other people.
So that's huge, you know.
(17:38):
And so we do love the race.
But then in August we do thatreally fun, you know, we have
the over at deep roots andRoswell we have that great wine
tasting with an auction, andthis last year we added in the
corn hole.
I mean, the corn hole was somuch fun.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Oh my gosh this year and it was such a blast, Raeann.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
So fun, so fun and we're so excited about this year
.
We've got some big plans.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Have you all been practicing right now?
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Well, you know my whole family's on a cornhole
league on Wednesday nights overat Gate City.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
So I practice every week.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
I am not good but yes , we practice every week
technically.
But yeah, we're super excited.
We've got a lot of big plansfor this August.
With you know, deep Roots isgoing to do some more stuff.
It's going to be great Like wecan't wait.
So that's like I think, august17th or 18th right around there,
but it's really a fun afternoontoo, right.
And then actually in a couple ofweeks, a friend of mine, this
(18:38):
wonderful guy Max.
He owns Safe Haven Gym and hecalled us.
He likes to do stuff with localnonprofits and he's supported
us for years.
I just love him and hisorganization and he's going to
do a fundraiser which we'reabout to put out with working
out and just all this stuff.
So that's going to do afundraiser which we're about to
put out with working out andjust all this stuff.
So that's going to be fun whenhe's sending me over a little
(18:58):
one page on that, so you'llstart seeing things about that.
I love to do the little ones inthe big fundraisers.
It's just again, you'recreating the awareness, you're
getting out there and talking topeople and making sure they
really know what's going on andyou know this is it.
What can we do to help, youknow, and so it's good, it's
good, it's been really good andwe've really expanded.
(19:19):
I might be jumping ahead ofmyself now.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
No, keep going.
Yeah, that was our question.
Is is keep going.
You know, like what is it thatyou know?
Besides just the not just, butbesides the education, how else
does?
What else do you do with thefoundation?
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Well, actually, well back with the actually the
education pieces.
You know, we the last severalyears have been really focused
mostly on, you know, thecolleges and the organizations
and stuff like that on thehigher ed side and organizations
and stuff like that on thehigher ed side.
But the last like two yearswe've really started focusing on
high schools, because I thinkit's very important to get to
(20:00):
the high school student,especially those high school
seniors, and, like this springsemester, I really focused on
high schools and I think we'respeaking at like 20 high schools
.
High schools are high schoolorganizations this spring, which
is just amazing to me.
It's really just each year itkeeps expanding and expanding,
and expanding and we've justgotten a lot of great feedback
(20:21):
from the public schools, fromthe private schools in our area.
I have some schools in Miamiwe've spoken with over in
Nebraska.
Somebody just requested for usto come out to Oregon.
So I'm just very like I hate tosay the word excited when
you're talking about this, but Iam excited.
This is what we've been workingfor for you know, max's
Foundation and the advocacy, andI just Well, I'm in awe, I'm in
(20:44):
awe that it has spread.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I mean, it's only been seven years, you know, and
it's gone all the way to theother side of the United.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
States.
You know, yeah.
So I mean it's just great, likeit's, and that's like where
we're kind of like.
I mean, obviously the collegeswe will definitely keep doing,
but like, like this spring I waslike I really want to focus on
these high schools so we reallyget a landing in there, like we
do have with the higher ed andstuff and it.
You know it's, it's working,it's great.
(21:12):
You know so.
And we work with Phi Delta,theta, on that other high school
program.
So we have two.
It's either me and Steve doingour version or I do speak.
Like just a week ago I was at aYMSL group and the Phi Delta
from Georgia Tech came and spokewith me and it's, you know, a
peer to peer type presentation.
So I mean these, the moms lovedit, the kids loved it, the
(21:34):
seniors loved it I shouldn'tcall them kids, but the young
men loved it, like just becauseit was very interactive and
you're talking to guys.
That is going to be you in ayear.
I mean that's going to be youand that's been a really good
program too.
So I like seeing these thingsthat we've kind of been planning
, you know, for the last fewyears really coming to fruition
right Like they're there,they're happening and and I
(21:55):
think it's great, it'sincredible work.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Absolutely incredible .
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Well, thank you.
You ladies are sweet.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Well um what advice would you give other grieving
moms or parents about you knowmoms or parents about?
You know just how do you leanin and and um you know, brace
yourself for being so vulnerableand just afraid.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
I mean public speaking is is certainly hard,
and just yeah, Were you afraidof public speaking before, or
were you like it's no big deal?
Speaker 3 (22:31):
Um, I wouldn't say I was afraid of it.
I remember in college I loved it, Like I liked my public
speaking class, but I was anurse, it wasn't like I needed
to keep doing public speaking,so it was kind of funny when I
first started speaking.
I mean, yeah, I definitely, youknow, get nervous, but there is
something, obviously, whenyou're so passionate about
something to be able to stand upthere and speaking about it,
(22:53):
that makes the difference too.
I mean, and you feel it, like Ican feel it when I'm speaking,
and it's it's a different tone,it's a different.
You know, and I'm not trying tolecture them or you know, no,
you're being bad kid, no, I mean, it's just my, it's just taking
your passion and you want themto feel it and I think they do
Right and it's just, you know, I, I don't know it, just I guess
(23:17):
it's I'm kind of natural at it,but I'm natural at it because I
am so passionate about it.
Like if you had me going upthere to I don't know, talk
about something else, I'd belike I'd probably be stuttering
and I don't know what to say andI've run off the stage.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Well, and you know, I've I've gone to your
presentations and I mean, youknow, here you give this and it
was that particular one you andSteve had given it together and,
um, it was just amazing to seethe long line that just
instantly started after you weredone.
You know that they, they wantedthe conversation to continue
(23:52):
and to have that face to faceand to say thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
It was that was so.
I mean equally moving to me aswatching y, when those students
come up and some come up theywant to hug you or about
somebody else that they knowthis has happened to, or maybe
they had a sibling that passedaway for some reason and they
want to talk to you about that.
Or some of them come up and say, oh my God, you remind me so
(24:40):
much of my mom, or I can'timagine my mom doing this, but
thank you for doing that.
Like it's just, there's thatconnection there and it's again.
It's very moving and again,another thing that makes you you
like I'm reaching them and Iwant to keep reaching them like
this and you're doing god's work.
Yeah, yeah, keep moving forwardwith it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, 100 uh, interrupted michelle's question
to you earlier.
What advice do you have?
Speaker 3 (25:07):
good job.
That's scary.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
IDD is on fire sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
But just yeah, the advice you would have to other
grieving parents.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
you know wanting to do something but maybe a little
nervous about it you know, Ihave a friend who just lost her
son this past um fall really sadstory and um um from gun
violence, and she definitelywants to advocate for her son,
(25:45):
and I do keep talking to herabout it.
You know, and again it's sortof like a you need this time,
right now too, though, to grieve, have those plans, and she's
doing some things.
But I'm like, and again it'ssort of like a, you need this
time, right now too, though, togrieve, have those plans, and
she's doing some things, but I'mlike, don't they don't put in
the cart before the horse, right, like, like it'll happen,
naturally it will.
But, right you, we all neededthat time.
We need that time, um, causeit's a lot once you really start
(26:09):
doing a lot of that advocacywork and getting out there and
doing stuff.
But that energy it will takethat I also tell her.
It takes that grief energy andhelps move it to something that
you're trying to help somebodyelse with and hopefully prevent
some gun violence with someoneelse and those kinds of things,
and that will all come.
(26:29):
It just doesn't have to comeright now and listen to yourself
, right, like I don't know how,what made me finally figure out.
Okay, I was ready to speak inMay, after Max had died in
September, but I knew I guess Iknew blessed Trinity was where I
would want to start and um, andbeing there with, I think, a
community obviously that we areso close with and so close with
(26:53):
those students and um, so thathelped me.
You know, kind of do it.
But, um, again, I think you haveto listen to yourself, um, and
go with like kind of just rollwith how it starts, cause ours
started off right Very, verysmall with giving out the
wristbands to, you know Max'sfriends that were requesting
(27:14):
them across the country, andthen other chapters started
asking us and then they weretelling Max's story in their
chapter meetings and giving outMax's wristbands, and that's
like what started it, right,they?
Everything always usuallystarts off small, and then it's
just how you keep rolling withit and just allow the rolling
forward, but not withoverwhelming yourself, cause I
(27:35):
think that's the other thing wecan all do is there was plenty
of times, I'm sure, I was at thebrink of losing, losing it, you
know, because you are so griefstricken and then you're
stressing yourself out aboutthese things you're doing, but
you want to do them.
But again, out about thesethings you're doing, but you
want to do them, but again thatall comes at a cost.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
You know to the rest of your family.
That's what happened to me wasI was like I have to do
something, I have to dosomething, and then you start
doing it.
And then I was like three and ahalf years in and I completely
shut down, like I had to back upeverything and just and now you
know I just went in too big,too fast, too much, too too much
(28:16):
and I had to take a step backand realize I don't, I can't be
in the trenches.
That was our.
I can't be in the trenches.
I can be back here doing what Ineeded.
And it took a while, just likewith you, it's taken a while to
figure out that groove and whereyou need to be.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yes, and where you want it to be.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And it doesn't.
And this is something that Ihad a hard time with and I still
have a hard time with, becausethis is who we are is it doesn't
have to be big, it doesn't justbe mail and wristbands.
It does not have to be big.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And that's where I know and you're doing and you're
helping someone like I mean,you're, you're doing what you
feel you need to do.
You know, for African, let's doit.
And you're helping so manypeople, like when you do his
pizza party yeah, you know partyand and all that you feel after
you come out of that.
I mean that's huge, you know,and that's what it's about.
(29:15):
And that again, right therethere's like something very
passionate and hey, maybe thatkeeps growing each year or you
start something else, but youjust let it go.
Naturally, you just how itneeds to go, and it doesn't
matter big or small, and I thinkCOVID helped me too.
Like, I think us having to halteverything the way we did, I
think that's pretty much like Iwas probably really very, very
(29:37):
burnt out at that time andprobably really ready to run for
the hills.
But COVID, of for also some ofthis you could.
You're running from it.
Right, you're kind of runningfrom the grief a little bit and
(29:59):
the tragedy of what's happened.
And COVID makes you face itagain Like I wasn't, I couldn't
be like, oh, I got to go travelagain.
Like, do you know what I mean?
Like, right, you had to sitwith it.
Yeah, you had to kind of sitwith it and and then regroup,
and then figure out, okay, whatis my next game plan here, and
then roll with it.
And you know what?
(30:19):
There's no right or wronganswers.
It's what you have to do foryou and your family, and all
that, and, and yeah, doing bigadvocacy, doesn't you know?
Yeah, I mean you got to travelall across the country.
You know, it could be mailingwristbands, it could be, you
know, going to some port groupsand telling them about your
(30:40):
story or your son's story, orMax's.
You know what I mean Likewhatever it might be, it's all
for them, it's all good.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
It's all moving forward as long as you're moving
forward.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yes, Well, what last question?
What?
What do you think um Max thinksof all of this, and and his mom
and dad that are out therehelping people.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
I think he thinks we're crazy.
Honestly, I think I tell I saythis all the time.
I think he's like looking causeagain.
If you guys like knew him, Iknow, you know him, but you know
, if you knew him, he I mean hewould just be like probably
shaking his head with that goofygrin and just like what are you
doing?
And all this for like and kindof like, all this for me Like,
why me Like?
What are you?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
doing yeah, like that humble spirit of it all.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Like, like, like, like.
Okay, Like you know, just, Ijust don't, I don't know.
I mean, I think he smiles andhe's, he's like way to go, but I
think, at the end of the day, Ithink he is a little like you
guys are nuts and thank you, but, um, I can't believe you did
all this.
You know, because of whathappened to me.
I do.
I do think he thinks that.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, which is fun, cause it's kind of, you know,
like you still feel like there'sthis banter a bit.
You know, yes, parent and child.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Oh, 100% yes.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well, raeann, it's always so much fun to talk to
you.
I miss seeing you, I know.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
We've got to get together.
I know let's do another dinner.
I know I've missed so many ofour Warrior Mom meetings, but
let's try to just do a dinneragain, like we did a few months
ago.
I would love to see everybody.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I miss everybody so much.
Me too.
All right, well, thank you somuch, yes, and thank you all.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
No, thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
All the be-in-here listeners out there in the world
.
We will be back next week withsomeone else.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And if you want to reach out to us, we have a
website now, warriormomsme, andyou can put in your name and
email and reach out to us.
We'd love to hear feedback andeven if you have topics that
you're interested in hearing ustalk about, we would love to
hear from you.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
We would love to hear from y'all.
Yes, we need ideas for topicsAlways.
Thanks guys, see you later.
Thanks ladies, bye.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.