May 1, 2024 • 41 mins
In our latest episode, we're joined by Melissa Crouch, my cherished youngest sister, who bravely shares her journey through the valleys of grief following the murder of my son, her nephew Carter. With raw emotion, she opens up about their close-knit relationship, the joyous moments they spent together, and the shattering day our world turned upside down. As Melissa reflects on the beautiful yet complex layer of sibling sorrow, we're reminded that the loss of a child is a shared burden, carrying a weight that is often shouldered in silence by brothers and sisters.
Melissa recounts the intentional ways she shared the truth about what happened to Carter and advice from her pediatrician----all with the clear focus keep Carter's spirit alive for Bennett and Everett. They were only 2 and 4 at the time, yet 7 1/2 years later, they feel tightly connected to Carter. How did she take care of her own grief, help her sons, and support her sister? Sage advice she offers, to say the least.
Amy and I are so honored to witness her retelling of her grief journey. We hope you will join us for a memorable conversation.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
We'd love to hear from our followers!
Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
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Instagram: WarriorMoms.SurvivingChildLoss
With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Amy, and we are so excited.
Today we have a very specialguest, melissa, who is
Michelle's sister.
So, michelle, tell us a littlebit about Melissa.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, Hi hi.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello, yes, hi hi.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hello, so I have.
So Melissa Crouch is myyoungest sister.
We are 11 years apart, althoughshe's one of my very best
friends and to me we're theexact same age.
I have more wrinkles than shedoes.
(00:43):
No, hardly.
It does not feel like there's11 years between us, and Amy and
I asked Melissa to be here toreally kick off our sibling
series.
As you know, we wanted to talkabout the idea of.
You know that grief of thisloss isn't just about the loss
(01:07):
that us moms feel, that losing achild really reverberates and
lands on all of us, and yes, itaffects the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
We get so much, I shouldn't get so much attention,
but we do.
Everybody's like, oh, how's themom, how's the mom?
It's kind of like we call thesiblings like the siblings are
the forgotten, they're forgotten, they just so much emphasis is
put on moms.
And so I love, because you werean aunt to Carter and you were
probably closer to Carter's agethan you were, your sister's age
(01:41):
apparently, right, my sister'sseven years younger than I am
and she babysat my son.
So much you know.
And it took me a couple ofyears to kind of dive in and
think to myself gosh, you know,she helped raise him, you know
(02:02):
so, and'm sure that anyway.
So yeah, what's y'all's?
relationship in that Like what?
How close were y'all?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Oh man.
So I lived with Michelle andJeremy and Carter.
We were roommates, roomies, andin fact Carter and I shared a
bedroom and that he was akindergartner, carter and I
shared a bedroom and that he wasa kindergartner, and that first
time I lived with Michelle andJeremy I was, you know, student
(02:31):
teaching and got placed inDenver and gosh, that was just a
precious time in my life,because here I am a college kid,
you know, and in my partyingways, and here's Michelle and
Jeremy opening their home to mewith a young child, I mean that
(02:56):
in itself is a testament toMichelle and Jeremy and Carter,
you know, and she adopted a dogin the middle of it too.
Yeah, that was let's add somemore chaos.
Who adopted the dog Melissa, didI know?
Oh geez, yeah.
So Carter would kind of crawlover to my bed and, hey, issa,
(03:17):
can I come in with you?
Yeah, come on.
You know, and him and I weredefinitely best buds for sure.
And then I lived with themagain when, you know, I was
graduated from college andtrying to find my first teaching
job, and so they opened theirhome again to me.
(03:38):
And Carter then was at the sameelementary school when I got my
first teaching job, and so thatwas really special.
So Carter would come with me toschool.
We'd do homework after schoolin my class, as I'm like setting
up for the next day, and thosetimes are just so precious to me
.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's just a bond that people don't.
I'm going to cry for you.
I know People don't.
I'm going to cry for you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I know that's the design.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
you can't create it grows.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
And it just yeah.
Well, and then when I gotengaged Carter, Well, even
before the engaged right, thefirst.
Oh yeah.
So so my husband is was goodfriends with my brother-in-law,
Jeremy, michelle's husband andCarter's dad.
And you know, jeremy was likedo you want me to set you up on
(04:36):
a date?
Because I just was having ahard time meeting people and
finding friends.
And I was like I think I mightmove back to Rapid City.
You know, I just am not findingmy people here.
And Jeremy's like wow, I'll setyou up.
And I'm like oh, that's justtoo weird, I don't know, he just
wanted you out of his house.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, exactly Exactly .
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So Jeremy invited Ken we had gone on like one date
and invited Ken to come homewith us.
So here we are Carter me,michelle, jeremy, ken.
(05:18):
I've gone on one date with thisman.
I'm like Jeremy, he's going tothink I set you up to do this,
you know.
And in the car Carter goes,issa Crouch, it's got a ring to
it.
I'm like Carter.
No, this guy's going to thinkI'm nuts.
Just so cute.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, so cute.
But then that spring, was itthat spring or fall that you got
?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
engaged that spring.
We only dated like seven months.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Carter was right there?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Oh yeah, he was our ring bear.
Love it.
Yeah yeah, carter was rightthere.
Oh yeah, he was our ring bear.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, Now take us to the.
Can I go here?
I just remember not being ableto sleep and being really just
anxious feeling, and so Iactually went out to our family
room and just was like trying tosleep on the couch.
I just didn't feel well tosleep on the couch, I just
(06:29):
didn't feel well, and my nieceSkye, who's the same age as
Carter, called me and saidMichelle and Jeremy can't find
Carter.
So then Michelle called me.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It was like 5.30 in the morning.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah.
And Michelle said you know, I'mdriving with Greta and we're
going to try and find Carter.
I'm driving with Greta andwe're going to try and find
Carter.
So we got the call then thatCarter had been murdered.
And I remember running into thebedroom and I had this black
(06:59):
lab who was just a love, anangel dog, and I remember
falling down into his dog bedand just falling apart, you know
.
And Ken said you know, okay,let's move into action.
We called a neighbor, a dearfriend of mine, and I said you
(07:22):
know, my nephew was killed.
Can you come and help with theboys?
So she came over at like 6 am.
How?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
old were your boys at the time?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Everett was two and Bennett was four, okay, so of
course they hear me crying.
So the little boys wake up.
And mom, what's the matter?
And I said, well, carter's beenreally hurt.
And Bennett, sorry, I have atickle in my throat.
Bennett said, uh, well, mommy,you gotta go help him, you gotta
(07:56):
go fix it.
And I said, yeah, I, you know,I'm gonna help Shell, I'm gonna
leave and I'm going to leave andI'm going to help Shell and
Jeremy and Greta.
And then I flew with my parentsto go to Atlanta.
But that was a really awfultime, awful moment.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Y'all had just spent a lot of time together in the
weeks before that correct.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, yep, it was kind of a tradition that
Michelle would bring Carter forhis birthday and he loved
nothing more.
You guys, my voice, I'm sosorry.
Carter loved nothing more thanto be with family, yeah, and he
loved the Black Hills and heloved camping.
That was always his favorite,michelle.
(08:45):
He wasn't a big cake fan, soMichelle always got him this
giant cookie with the icing thatwas like a tent and happy
birthday, carter.
And so that weekly, you know,before he died, we were all in
the Black Hills camping andhiking camping and hiking.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And so that birthday party the Friday night before he
died, that Sunday night, um andMelissa and Ken had given
Carter their car, one of theircars, as a birthday present.
Um, and he, you would havethought he they had given him, I
mean millions, it was like ajalopy of a car to be honest it
didn't matter.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It did not matter.
And he wrote us a thank younote.
I still have the note in hislittle handwriting and you know,
isa and Ken, I will take careof this car and I will respect
this.
It's such an honor to have it.
Thank you, I mean just preciousand in just a few days.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That shows his character too, just in those few
days.
It's not like he got home andwas like yeah, I'll do it later.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
You know a lot of kids that age would do Exactly,
exactly, yeah, oh, that isprecious.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So you all are on the plane.
I bet you couldn't get a planeticket fast enough, could you?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So our Aunt Debbie, who's in Texas.
She went into action, bought usthe plane tickets.
Melanie and I grabbed all ofthe photo albums we could On the
way to the airport.
We were grabbing every photo ofCarter and everything and
putting them in a bag, knowingthat we would want to display
(10:32):
them.
Yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Somehow they grabbed every piece of precious like
jewelry.
It was rosaries and crosses andheart necklaces and pearls of
our grandparents Handkerchiefsand somehow, in that first 24,
(10:58):
48 hours, they made a necklacefor me to wear that had all of
the strength of these women inour family.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
And then you know I I wore thatfor months, truly months, um,
but it was something that Icould immediately put on and it
(11:18):
was a hug.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It was a hug from all these women, and you're ah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, it was incredible.
And what my memory is, Melissa,is that I mean, I know the pain
was so deep for y'all and yet,like my recounting of it is like
your smiles, your hugs, yourholding the hands, your smiles,
(11:49):
your hugs, your holding thehands.
You know, we went downtownWoodstock and Melanie gave Greta
$500 to go shopping.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
We all you know and they were we did some retail
therapy.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, they were.
You know, Melissa and Melanieand Skye are skipping and you
know, just pouring joy and careinto Greta.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And Greta needed that at that moment for sure,
because she was so young.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, and you know, like what were you thinking,
like, how did you gain thatstrength?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I've wondered Well, what was so interesting is in
that week?
I mean, it's an out-of-bodyexperience for sure, but we all
had our roles, you know, likewhen one of us would break down,
another one would swoop in.
(12:42):
You know, michelle wantedCarter's room to be packed up
and you know, we all kind oflooked at each other and
assessed and, without words, mydad and I walked up the steps
and we just got it done.
You know and I think anotherpiece that shares Carter's
(13:04):
person, his spirit, is on hisdesk was every special rock that
he had collected from the BlackHills, every note each of us
had ever written him he hadstacked up.
My dad had given Carter everybirthday silver dollars and he
had a little stack andeverything was just precious.
(13:27):
It shows him.
You know his character, youknow I remember all of us.
A little comedy out moment inthat grief is we all would try
and be helpful and pick up eachother's things and try and like
tidy up, but then you just loseeverything and you feel like I
(13:50):
mean you are losing your mindand you're like gosh, I just had
my purse.
Where did it go?
So our middle sister, melanie,she goes.
This is good, this is great,because in grief, you actually
need something to be annoyedwith.
This is so good.
We need to be irritated.
This is good.
(14:10):
So she handed out Ziploc bagsto all of us.
So instead of carrying purses,we all had a Ziploc bag so we
could see the items Stuff likethat coming and going and it
just always was a lot.
It was just a lot.
And, michelle, I don't know howyou do it, sister of mine, but
(14:44):
she just has God in her.
Truly, there's no other way toexplain it.
But as we're all eating somedinner, someone brought in food.
Sitting in their kitchen area,michelle is quietly writing
Carter's eulogy.
(15:06):
Thank you, you know I mean thatjust, but she's just right in
there with us in the mix, youknow, didn't take herself away
to a quiet room, no, she's justright in there, wanted to be.
That's just Michelle.
You know she's still a part,still.
You know that rock, that solidperson and I, that's wow.
(15:27):
That is burned in my memory forsure.
Another moment, and I've toldyou, know Melanie and my mom and
dad I don't know how I got togo, I don't even remember, but
Michelle and Jeremy had to go tothe funeral home and choose the
(15:50):
things you know, and somehow Irose to the occasion and I went.
Everybody else was busy doingother things.
And so, whoa, in the car Iwrote the obituary, jeremy
edited it, michelle gave somewords.
So we're doing that in the car.
Then we get to the funeral home.
(16:11):
You have all these options andI just am always in awe of this
human in front of me because shenever once showed anger, never.
You know, when you're deep inthat grief, a lot of times
(16:36):
people can be unkind to eachother.
You know you, just that happens.
You kind of see people's truecolors in moments like that and
Michelle is just truly a walkingangel and I think no wonder
Carter is the person.
(16:58):
He, I still say is because heis very much alive and it's
because of this woman right here.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, and I think that's something she is amazing.
I mean she's still doing thattoday, I mean with all of us,
you know here.
But I think that it does.
It shows a testament to who sheis and who Carter is.
But it's amazing how you dorise to the occasion, you know.
I just shared something theother day and it said everybody
(17:29):
with you know everybody that'sso strong.
They've been given a story thatmade them have to show their
strength, and it's not thatwe're stronger than the next
person, we just powered throughit.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And it's amazing how you do rise to that occasion.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But, like you said, sometimes you can be angry and
cuss at people and yell atpeople and I'm sure she's had
her moments of that and yell atpeople, and I'm sure she's had
her moments of that but in theheat of it and in the thing of
it, it's a true way to honor whoCarter was, is and his legacy
will live on forever, and that'sand that's because of how
(18:09):
Michelle does that for sure,absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
She kind of set the tone.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And we followed and just got right in line behind
her and, yep, you know we couldhave been the parent to the
killer and we weren't, and thatI just I wanted to lean into
this.
You know who this beautifulyoung man was, yes, and not get
caught up in, you know, losingwho he was simply because I was
(18:55):
angry or I was hurt, and youknow I could do that in private,
but I, um, yeah, that wasreally the focus.
But one of the things, melissa,I think is just, oh gosh, um,
so incredible is how you'vehandled um keeping Carter's
spirit alive with your boys, youknow.
And two, and there's thisprecious picture right before we
(19:18):
were leaving, carter scoops upboth Bennett and Everett and
he's this 17-year-old muscularkid, man, child, yeah, man,
child, but he was a kid magnet.
He just, oh my gosh, he couldnot.
If there was a baby, he washolding it, if there was a
(19:40):
toddler, he's racing in the yardwith them.
So he scoops up Bennett andEverett and he's talking to them
in these two faces that we have.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, their little.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Faces are turned to them, and I mean their eyes and
their eyebrows are up, liketheir faces are turned to them,
and I mean their eyes and theireyebrows are up, like who is
this amazing human?
I mean yes, but they still werefour and two.
And those memories get lost.
And yet to see Bennett andEverett and to hear them talk
(20:11):
about Carter, there is no doubtin their minds that they know
who Carter is.
And I mean tell about what youjust told me.
This week it was so precious.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
So Everett, my younger son, he is, oh my gosh,
a little old soul and loves cars, loves history.
Has this just innate memory andcan?
you know, remember cars, theirmake, their model.
It's wild.
So he comes down the hallwayand he's like, mom, he's eight,
(20:58):
mom, mom, what was Carter'sfavorite car?
And I'm like, geez, I don'tknow, I'd have to ask Shell.
But he loved a good pickuptruck.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,runs down the hallway, comes
back down, mom, what wasCarter's favorite toy?
I'm like, oh, he loved theserescue hero little figurines.
And it was a fireman, apoliceman.
Yeah, yeah, okay, runs down thehallway.
I don't know what he's doingwhen he goes back to the hallway
(21:21):
, but he just had these burningquestions that he had to know
about Carter at that moment, andright away when I got back from
Atlanta, from Carter's funeral,you know I am a hot mess.
It's summer, so I'm home withthe boys and they're little, so
I'm trying to get them out ofthe house at the park all the
(21:43):
time, and that's when all thesigns from Carter began.
And so any hawk that I'd see,I'd lose my mind and roll down
the window.
I'd see, I'd lose my mind androll down the window.
Carter, hi, carter.
So then the boys would join in.
Hey, carter, yeah, we'd clapfor the hog.
(22:04):
You know people are looking atus like what?
Here are these two littlemunchkins in the back.
We're cheering out the windowfor this bird the back.
We're cheering out the windowfor this bird.
And I have videos of the boysin their car seats and Coldplay,
(22:24):
like every song on his HeadFull of Dreams album.
We believe that it's justCarter.
It's Carter sending us thesesongs and so when this
particular song would come onthe radio, everett and Bennett
started this fist pump action tothe Carter song and it was just
(22:45):
this dance we did to celebrateCarter and, you know, to make it
fun, and the boys just werelike whoa, my mom is wild and
wacky, but we're joining in,we're in it.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
And they, you know, they do,they talk about him, they ask
questions.
I mean it's just, it's such abeautiful thing about that.
I honestly I know it had to bereally hard to tell the boys
what happened and they were tooyoung to know all the details.
(23:24):
And all that conversation isstill going to be down your road
, your path with them.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
So when they were little, you know, I told them
that Carter had been hurt reallybadly and he was in heaven.
So that's kind of how I handledit.
But you know, my little Bennett, who is 10, is always listening
, always right there, you know,around the corner listening, and
so he overheard a lot ofconversations and so one night
(23:54):
he came to me and was like Mom,did Carter get hurt by a bad guy
?
I said, oh, buddy, yeah, he did, he did.
He's like no one can help himget better.
I was like no, but his angelstook him.
They took him to heaven andafter we had that conversation,
(24:16):
I truly believe that Carter satwith the boys at night.
I just have this sense, becauseevery morning Bennett would say
things like wild things, likeMom, carter's in heaven and he
(24:36):
is building things, and Carterwanted to be an engineer.
And I was like, wow, that isawesome, buddy, bennett wouldn't
have known that he wanted to bean engineer?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
No, no.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
And he's like yep, mom Carter told me he's building
things in heaven.
I was like wow, I mean, youjust can't write these, you
can't even make this up.
I mean these little people.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
We didn't know that he had taken photos and had
stolen a camera, and Bennett wasthe one that told Melissa I
(25:21):
forgot about that, melissa toldme.
We told the police and they werescouring because he had just
thrown things out of his windowas he was trying to get rid of
evidence.
They found the camera he hadtaken the film.
So we never saw it, but thecamera that was Carter's, that
my dad had given him.
It was a camera my dad had gotwhen he was overseas in Vietnam
(25:45):
and had given this camera to mydad.
And they found it.
And Bennett was the one thatwoke up and told Melissa that
one morning Unreal.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
It is.
And you know, being here inRapid City it's just so hard
because I want nothing more tobe with my sister, you know, and
Greta and Jeremy.
But, and I didn't know if I wastelling the right, telling this
(26:15):
story in the right manner to myboys.
I didn't know.
And you know I remember askingthe pediatrician like this is
the situation, and you knowthere are my Bennett is asking a
lot of questions, what is theright thing to say to a little
(26:36):
buddy, you know?
And our pediatrician saidMelissa, there's no wrong way to
say this, but I want toencourage you to tell your
children the truth and that thatdon't sugarcoat it.
Just tell them that he waskilled and you know he's not
(26:56):
with us anymore and our heartsare forever changed because of
that.
And I remember feeling like thisweight lifted because I was
always trying to make it soundbetter than it was or to, you
know, kind of shield them fromthis thing.
And the moment that Ken and Isat the boys down and told them,
you know, that Carter had beenshot by this boy and the both
(27:21):
Bennett and Everett cried and um, bennett said mom, I, I hate
that that happened and I wishthat wouldn't have happened.
But I'm really sad for that kidtoo.
Like he, his life's done.
I was like it absolutely is.
And we, we can be sad for himtoo.
That's absolutely true.
(27:42):
But you know what we're goingto focus on.
We're not focusing on that partof the story.
We're focusing on Carter's lifeand and who he is to us and who
he is to us.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I love that, oh my gosh, I know I do too.
That's wisdom, oh my I know it.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
What advice could you give other siblings, aunts and
uncles about how to take care ofyou?
And still, you know, put loveand attention towards us who
have lost somebody.
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Oh God, I think showing up, you know, is so
important.
Just calling, talking aboutCarter, talking about your loved
one who's passed, bringing himinto conversations.
You know a lot of people youworry like, oh, they're getting
(28:44):
sick of me talking about.
I don't care, he is the lightof our life and I'm going to
tell the funny stories I'm goingto tell.
You know, I'm going to saythese hard conversations and if
it makes that person feelcomfortable, they're not meant
to be in our circle, you know.
So I think, talk about yourloved one often and all the time
(29:05):
, and call your sibling and showup.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
How did you take care of yourself?
Because I mean, you had majorgrief as well trauma grief, all
the things.
How have you taken care ofyourself in this?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think, as we all do , you know, I find like peace in
being outside, and so I wasconstantly taking my boys and
we'd go to the park or we'd gojust in the backyard putting on
music.
I think Michelle gave greatadvice to us early on, you know
(29:45):
set aside your grief time, andthat because I had to be kind of
on, you know, and be there too.
So, yeah, um, but I think whatMichelle has led us um through
this journey is, when that griefstrikes cause it can come any
(30:08):
moment just let it, let it andhonor it, and then also it's
okay then to put it aside andthen keep going.
I think that, yeah, just honorthat, feel the fields.
That has helped a lot isletting it.
I think I did go to a counselorjust once.
(30:30):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think the good piece, I didget a tattoo.
That was really liberating,what is it?
So Carter gave a baseball toBennett for his first birthday
and in Carter's handwriting onthe baseball he said I can't
wait to play with you, buddy, soprecious I know.
(30:53):
So I took that baseball to thetattoo artist and said I need
this handwriting on me.
And so they took um, you know,made a little tattoo design in
his handwriting and it says addmore love to the world, and I
love it.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I have somebody say this I'm going to see I go off
script.
Michelle's all good and likewhat the agenda is.
And then there's Amy that justcomes in and like hey we need.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
We need the wrecking ball.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But wrecking ball, I like it too.
So I've had people say to mebefore I'm very close to Alec,
that have known him since he wasbirth, you know whatever family
that have said I'm so sorrythat I'm upset, I shouldn't be
more upset than you, and I justthink that that and I'm like no,
(31:52):
you loved him too.
Like it almost brings mecomfort to know that they are
upset as well.
Like have you ever felt like Ishouldn't be more upset than her
, or does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Well, I'm saying that , yeah, you know, I never felt
that, yeah, never.
But I, I know what you'resaying, you know, I, I.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Like you, look at Michelle and think she's so
strong in here I'm a mess.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, I do understand that, yeah, I mean I think we
all have taken turns in thatmess and and helped each other
through it, and that doesn'tmean that I shouldn't have been
that, you know.
They're just.
It is that dark and heavy andit feels like you're drowning
(32:44):
sometimes.
But just allowing yourself tofeel the feels and also any
other aunt or sibling or anybodyout there.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
it's okay that you're upset and it's okay, for like
me or Michelle, to see you upsetabout it.
Like I mean, I don't want tosay it's a good thing, but it is
.
It's a good thing.
Like we need to know thatpeople loved our children just
as much as we did.
Like it's not a competitionwith who's sadder.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yes, and all of that, so that it's okay.
You know of of you, you know,walking this with your boys, um,
and I remember phone calls, youknow, and you would just be
destroyed and you'd be bawlingand not being able to talk.
And you know, melissa, we havethat relationship where we're
(33:36):
not.
You know she, she shared thatbecause you know she needed me
and I needed her.
You know, and, um, and you'reright, amy, like that does
strangely fill us up, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, it's not that we want you to hurt, but it does
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Right, and one of the things I want you to share,
just as we're kind of finishingup, is the ways in which you
celebrate Carter, because thatis something that people in
Melissa's life say about her isshe is just from the kids that
(34:20):
she teaches to the parents, toneighbors, she is the hostess
with the mostest and just bringsthis light.
Oh, michelle, I mean, whenshe's in the presence, you're
the focus and she does that forher students, and Melissa has
just found some ways to not justwith her boys, but to make
(34:43):
Carter a presence in other ways.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
So just share a couple of those ways that you
Well, I mean, as a teacher, Ithink it's important to share
parts of you that are real toyour students, and so I always
share with my class the story ofCarter.
We do a project aroundValentine's Day it's like a
(35:10):
kindness challenge and we sayhow we're going to add more love
to the world.
I have these like my mostprecious items in my classroom.
Carter would always come andhelp me set up my classroom and
he made these posters for me andit has like a poem for every
holiday in his handwriting andso I yes, I have that, you know,
(35:36):
as like a huge part of ourclassroom community.
So Carter is very much well andalive in my classroom with my
friends, my adult friends.
You know he is very much a partof my friendships.
You know I have a dear friendwho loves to run and she was
(36:00):
running when it was snowy outand she wrote add more love in
the snow and sent me a picture.
I think people, just becausethey love us, they in return
love Carter and that is sospecial and I have made it my
(36:21):
goal, I guess my mission, to domy best to live big like Carter,
to love big, to say what's onyour heart to not withhold.
You know those words like Ilove you.
You know to say it and mean it,and I do believe that as a
(36:42):
teacher, it's such an awesomeway to pass on his legacy for
sure.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I love you, melissa oh man.
I love you so much.
I love you, melissa oh man.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Amy.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Y'all's bond and just all of it.
I just love it, I love thaty'all have each other you know,
and the Melanie too, but I justlove the bond that y'all have in
the family and just the coreyou know.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah, gosh, we are lucky, the blessing in this and
I'm so honored that I get tospeak on here.
But I love that we can honestlysay that we have no regrets
with Carter.
That we always said that weloved him and we had the most
(37:43):
fun when we were together.
We, man, we had fun.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
And I feel really good about that and I do it too
he knew the love that all of youhad for him and that he had for
y'all, and that, oh my gosh,that what you just said right
there, that you have no regretswhatsoever.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Of course you want more time and you want more fun
and adventures, but the time wedid have, I just, I'm so proud
of it.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I think that helps bring peace too, to know that I
did everything that we enjoyedevery moment we had together.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
We did, and that's something that the three of us
sisters really try really hard,particularly with the men in our
lives you know of, you knowthey're, you know they feel like
they should have protected orthat there's um, you know that
they could have done more, andthat's something with our dad in
(38:43):
particular that you know.
I think the three of us really,in our own ways, but with our
mom too, is just making surethey hear from us.
Gosh, remember when you didthis with Carter oh gosh.
Remember when, helping them walkback through those memories.
Yes, that's like pointing atwhat they did in those memories.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
You're absolutely correct, because that's
something that you know.
The men, they're the protectors, they're the.
I couldn't keep them safe.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And Melissa's really bothMelissa and Melanie are such
good kind of like historic well,all of our, all of us in our
family, these historianstorytellers.
You know that my dad is justthe most brilliant of all.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
And he started the trend.
He started it, oh yeah, hetaught y'all well.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's a long line of hurlies that are storytellers.
I love it, but that's soimportant.
I think that's something thatwhen I'm with Melissa, that she
really gifts to me, becausethere's so many pieces that you
forget a mom, and dad, and Gretatoo, and so for you know my
(40:03):
sibling to share that, you knowthose memories and you know,
like I had forgotten, melissa,that you were sick that Saturday
.
You know that the night beforethat Sunday night, you know just
hearing, you know just keeping.
I guess you know talking aboutthat, even when it's hard, even
(40:23):
when it's sad, and somehowthat's that sadness gets re kind
of quilted into somethingthat's really beautiful.
Yes, amazing.
I love you.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
I love you.
I love you too.
This was awesome.
Thank you so much.
I wish I had sisters.
Oh, I have my Carter picturehere.
I love it, and I lit a littlecandle for him.
Oh, yeah.
Thank you guys, this is just anhonor.
Oh, melissa, thank you.
(41:02):
I man what your moms, you are,and I just admire and wrap you
all up well thank you so much,you all right all your, your
boys, a smooch I will.
It's nice to see you and meetyou, Amy.
You too, Melissa.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Thank you.
Thank you All right, michelle.
I guess until next time we'llhave another sibling on one day,
right, that's right.
Awesome, all right.
Well, thank you both, bye, bye.
Hello and welcome to Warrior Moms.
I am Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Amy, and we are so excited.
Today we have a very specialguest, melissa, who is
Michelle's sister.
So, michelle, tell us a littlebit about Melissa.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, Hi hi.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hello, yes, hi hi.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hello, so I have.
So Melissa Crouch is myyoungest sister.
We are 11 years apart, althoughshe's one of my very best
friends and to me we're theexact same age.
I have more wrinkles than shedoes.
(00:43):
No, hardly.
It does not feel like there's11 years between us, and Amy and
I asked Melissa to be here toreally kick off our sibling
series.
As you know, we wanted to talkabout the idea of.
You know that grief of thisloss isn't just about the loss
(01:07):
that us moms feel, that losing achild really reverberates and
lands on all of us, and yes, itaffects the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
We get so much, I shouldn't get so much attention,
but we do.
Everybody's like, oh, how's themom, how's the mom?
It's kind of like we call thesiblings like the siblings are
the forgotten, they're forgotten, they just so much emphasis is
put on moms.
And so I love, because you werean aunt to Carter and you were
probably closer to Carter's agethan you were, your sister's age
(01:41):
apparently, right, my sister'sseven years younger than I am
and she babysat my son.
So much you know.
And it took me a couple ofyears to kind of dive in and
think to myself gosh, you know,she helped raise him, you know
(02:02):
so, and'm sure that anyway.
So yeah, what's y'all's?
relationship in that Like what?
How close were y'all?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Oh man.
So I lived with Michelle andJeremy and Carter.
We were roommates, roomies, andin fact Carter and I shared a
bedroom and that he was akindergartner, carter and I
shared a bedroom and that he wasa kindergartner, and that first
time I lived with Michelle andJeremy I was, you know, student
(02:31):
teaching and got placed inDenver and gosh, that was just a
precious time in my life,because here I am a college kid,
you know, and in my partyingways, and here's Michelle and
Jeremy opening their home to mewith a young child, I mean that
(02:56):
in itself is a testament toMichelle and Jeremy and Carter,
you know, and she adopted a dogin the middle of it too.
Yeah, that was let's add somemore chaos.
Who adopted the dog Melissa, didI know?
Oh geez, yeah.
So Carter would kind of crawlover to my bed and, hey, issa,
(03:17):
can I come in with you?
Yeah, come on.
You know, and him and I weredefinitely best buds for sure.
And then I lived with themagain when, you know, I was
graduated from college andtrying to find my first teaching
job, and so they opened theirhome again to me.
(03:38):
And Carter then was at the sameelementary school when I got my
first teaching job, and so thatwas really special.
So Carter would come with me toschool.
We'd do homework after schoolin my class, as I'm like setting
up for the next day, and thosetimes are just so precious to me
.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's just a bond that people don't.
I'm going to cry for you.
I know People don't.
I'm going to cry for you.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I know that's the design.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
you can't create it grows.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
And it just yeah.
Well, and then when I gotengaged Carter, Well, even
before the engaged right, thefirst.
Oh yeah.
So so my husband is was goodfriends with my brother-in-law,
Jeremy, michelle's husband andCarter's dad.
And you know, jeremy was likedo you want me to set you up on
(04:36):
a date?
Because I just was having ahard time meeting people and
finding friends.
And I was like I think I mightmove back to Rapid City.
You know, I just am not findingmy people here.
And Jeremy's like wow, I'll setyou up.
And I'm like oh, that's justtoo weird, I don't know, he just
wanted you out of his house.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, exactly Exactly .
Speaker 3 (04:57):
So Jeremy invited Ken we had gone on like one date
and invited Ken to come homewith us.
So here we are Carter me,michelle, jeremy, ken.
(05:18):
I've gone on one date with thisman.
I'm like Jeremy, he's going tothink I set you up to do this,
you know.
And in the car Carter goes,issa Crouch, it's got a ring to
it.
I'm like Carter.
No, this guy's going to thinkI'm nuts.
Just so cute.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Yeah, so cute.
But then that spring, was itthat spring or fall that you got
?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
engaged that spring.
We only dated like seven months.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Carter was right there?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Oh yeah, he was our ring bear.
Love it.
Yeah yeah, carter was rightthere.
Oh yeah, he was our ring bear.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Love it.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, Now take us to the.
Can I go here?
I just remember not being ableto sleep and being really just
anxious feeling, and so Iactually went out to our family
room and just was like trying tosleep on the couch.
I just didn't feel well tosleep on the couch, I just
(06:29):
didn't feel well, and my nieceSkye, who's the same age as
Carter, called me and saidMichelle and Jeremy can't find
Carter.
So then Michelle called me.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
It was like 5.30 in the morning.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah.
And Michelle said you know, I'mdriving with Greta and we're
going to try and find Carter.
I'm driving with Greta andwe're going to try and find
Carter.
So we got the call then thatCarter had been murdered.
And I remember running into thebedroom and I had this black
(06:59):
lab who was just a love, anangel dog, and I remember
falling down into his dog bedand just falling apart, you know
.
And Ken said you know, okay,let's move into action.
We called a neighbor, a dearfriend of mine, and I said you
(07:22):
know, my nephew was killed.
Can you come and help with theboys?
So she came over at like 6 am.
How?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
old were your boys at the time?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
Everett was two and Bennett was four, okay, so of
course they hear me crying.
So the little boys wake up.
And mom, what's the matter?
And I said, well, carter's beenreally hurt.
And Bennett, sorry, I have atickle in my throat.
Bennett said, uh, well, mommy,you gotta go help him, you gotta
(07:56):
go fix it.
And I said, yeah, I, you know,I'm gonna help Shell, I'm gonna
leave and I'm going to leave andI'm going to help Shell and
Jeremy and Greta.
And then I flew with my parentsto go to Atlanta.
But that was a really awfultime, awful moment.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Y'all had just spent a lot of time together in the
weeks before that correct.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Yeah, yep, it was kind of a tradition that
Michelle would bring Carter forhis birthday and he loved
nothing more.
You guys, my voice, I'm sosorry.
Carter loved nothing more thanto be with family, yeah, and he
loved the Black Hills and heloved camping.
That was always his favorite,michelle.
(08:45):
He wasn't a big cake fan, soMichelle always got him this
giant cookie with the icing thatwas like a tent and happy
birthday, carter.
And so that weekly, you know,before he died, we were all in
the Black Hills camping andhiking camping and hiking.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And so that birthday party the Friday night before he
died, that Sunday night, um andMelissa and Ken had given
Carter their car, one of theircars, as a birthday present.
Um, and he, you would havethought he they had given him, I
mean millions, it was like ajalopy of a car to be honest it
didn't matter.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It did not matter.
And he wrote us a thank younote.
I still have the note in hislittle handwriting and you know,
isa and Ken, I will take careof this car and I will respect
this.
It's such an honor to have it.
Thank you, I mean just preciousand in just a few days.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
That shows his character too, just in those few
days.
It's not like he got home andwas like yeah, I'll do it later.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
You know a lot of kids that age would do Exactly,
exactly, yeah, oh, that isprecious.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So you all are on the plane.
I bet you couldn't get a planeticket fast enough, could you?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So our Aunt Debbie, who's in Texas.
She went into action, bought usthe plane tickets.
Melanie and I grabbed all ofthe photo albums we could On the
way to the airport.
We were grabbing every photo ofCarter and everything and
putting them in a bag, knowingthat we would want to display
(10:32):
them.
Yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Somehow they grabbed every piece of precious like
jewelry.
It was rosaries and crosses andheart necklaces and pearls of
our grandparents Handkerchiefsand somehow, in that first 24,
(10:58):
48 hours, they made a necklacefor me to wear that had all of
the strength of these women inour family.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
And then you know I I wore thatfor months, truly months, um,
but it was something that Icould immediately put on and it
(11:18):
was a hug.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It was a hug from all these women, and you're ah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, it was incredible.
And what my memory is, Melissa,is that I mean, I know the pain
was so deep for y'all and yet,like my recounting of it is like
your smiles, your hugs, yourholding the hands, your smiles,
(11:49):
your hugs, your holding thehands.
You know, we went downtownWoodstock and Melanie gave Greta
$500 to go shopping.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
We all you know and they were we did some retail
therapy.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, they were.
You know, Melissa and Melanieand Skye are skipping and you
know, just pouring joy and careinto Greta.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And Greta needed that at that moment for sure,
because she was so young.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, and you know, like what were you thinking,
like, how did you gain thatstrength?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I've wondered Well, what was so interesting is in
that week?
I mean, it's an out-of-bodyexperience for sure, but we all
had our roles, you know, likewhen one of us would break down,
another one would swoop in.
(12:42):
You know, michelle wantedCarter's room to be packed up
and you know, we all kind oflooked at each other and
assessed and, without words, mydad and I walked up the steps
and we just got it done.
You know and I think anotherpiece that shares Carter's
(13:04):
person, his spirit, is on hisdesk was every special rock that
he had collected from the BlackHills, every note each of us
had ever written him he hadstacked up.
My dad had given Carter everybirthday silver dollars and he
had a little stack andeverything was just precious.
(13:27):
It shows him.
You know his character, youknow I remember all of us.
A little comedy out moment inthat grief is we all would try
and be helpful and pick up eachother's things and try and like
tidy up, but then you just loseeverything and you feel like I
(13:50):
mean you are losing your mindand you're like gosh, I just had
my purse.
Where did it go?
So our middle sister, melanie,she goes.
This is good, this is great,because in grief, you actually
need something to be annoyedwith.
This is so good.
We need to be irritated.
This is good.
(14:10):
So she handed out Ziploc bagsto all of us.
So instead of carrying purses,we all had a Ziploc bag so we
could see the items Stuff likethat coming and going and it
just always was a lot.
It was just a lot.
And, michelle, I don't know howyou do it, sister of mine, but
(14:44):
she just has God in her.
Truly, there's no other way toexplain it.
But as we're all eating somedinner, someone brought in food.
Sitting in their kitchen area,michelle is quietly writing
Carter's eulogy.
(15:06):
Thank you, you know I mean thatjust, but she's just right in
there with us in the mix, youknow, didn't take herself away
to a quiet room, no, she's justright in there, wanted to be.
That's just Michelle.
You know she's still a part,still.
You know that rock, that solidperson and I, that's wow.
(15:27):
That is burned in my memory forsure.
Another moment, and I've toldyou, know Melanie and my mom and
dad I don't know how I got togo, I don't even remember, but
Michelle and Jeremy had to go tothe funeral home and choose the
(15:50):
things you know, and somehow Irose to the occasion and I went.
Everybody else was busy doingother things.
And so, whoa, in the car Iwrote the obituary, jeremy
edited it, michelle gave somewords.
So we're doing that in the car.
Then we get to the funeral home.
(16:11):
You have all these options andI just am always in awe of this
human in front of me because shenever once showed anger, never.
You know, when you're deep inthat grief, a lot of times
(16:36):
people can be unkind to eachother.
You know you, just that happens.
You kind of see people's truecolors in moments like that and
Michelle is just truly a walkingangel and I think no wonder
Carter is the person.
(16:58):
He, I still say is because heis very much alive and it's
because of this woman right here.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Well, and I think that's something she is amazing.
I mean she's still doing thattoday, I mean with all of us,
you know here.
But I think that it does.
It shows a testament to who sheis and who Carter is.
But it's amazing how you dorise to the occasion, you know.
I just shared something theother day and it said everybody
(17:29):
with you know everybody that'sso strong.
They've been given a story thatmade them have to show their
strength, and it's not thatwe're stronger than the next
person, we just powered throughit.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And it's amazing how you do rise to that occasion.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But, like you said, sometimes you can be angry and
cuss at people and yell atpeople and I'm sure she's had
her moments of that and yell atpeople, and I'm sure she's had
her moments of that but in theheat of it and in the thing of
it, it's a true way to honor whoCarter was, is and his legacy
will live on forever, and that'sand that's because of how
(18:09):
Michelle does that for sure,absolutely.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
She kind of set the tone.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And we followed and just got right in line behind
her and, yep, you know we couldhave been the parent to the
killer and we weren't, and thatI just I wanted to lean into
this.
You know who this beautifulyoung man was, yes, and not get
caught up in, you know, losingwho he was simply because I was
(18:55):
angry or I was hurt, and youknow I could do that in private,
but I, um, yeah, that wasreally the focus.
But one of the things, melissa,I think is just, oh gosh, um,
so incredible is how you'vehandled um keeping Carter's
spirit alive with your boys, youknow.
And two, and there's thisprecious picture right before we
(19:18):
were leaving, carter scoops upboth Bennett and Everett and
he's this 17-year-old muscularkid, man, child, yeah, man,
child, but he was a kid magnet.
He just, oh my gosh, he couldnot.
If there was a baby, he washolding it, if there was a
(19:40):
toddler, he's racing in the yardwith them.
So he scoops up Bennett andEverett and he's talking to them
in these two faces that we have.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, their little.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Faces are turned to them, and I mean their eyes and
their eyebrows are up, liketheir faces are turned to them,
and I mean their eyes and theireyebrows are up, like who is
this amazing human?
I mean yes, but they still werefour and two.
And those memories get lost.
And yet to see Bennett andEverett and to hear them talk
(20:11):
about Carter, there is no doubtin their minds that they know
who Carter is.
And I mean tell about what youjust told me.
This week it was so precious.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
So Everett, my younger son, he is, oh my gosh,
a little old soul and loves cars, loves history.
Has this just innate memory andcan?
you know, remember cars, theirmake, their model.
It's wild.
So he comes down the hallwayand he's like, mom, he's eight,
(20:58):
mom, mom, what was Carter'sfavorite car?
And I'm like, geez, I don'tknow, I'd have to ask Shell.
But he loved a good pickuptruck.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,runs down the hallway, comes
back down, mom, what wasCarter's favorite toy?
I'm like, oh, he loved theserescue hero little figurines.
And it was a fireman, apoliceman.
Yeah, yeah, okay, runs down thehallway.
I don't know what he's doingwhen he goes back to the hallway
(21:21):
, but he just had these burningquestions that he had to know
about Carter at that moment, andright away when I got back from
Atlanta, from Carter's funeral,you know I am a hot mess.
It's summer, so I'm home withthe boys and they're little, so
I'm trying to get them out ofthe house at the park all the
(21:43):
time, and that's when all thesigns from Carter began.
And so any hawk that I'd see,I'd lose my mind and roll down
the window.
I'd see, I'd lose my mind androll down the window.
Carter, hi, carter.
So then the boys would join in.
Hey, carter, yeah, we'd clapfor the hog.
(22:04):
You know people are looking atus like what?
Here are these two littlemunchkins in the back.
We're cheering out the windowfor this bird the back.
We're cheering out the windowfor this bird.
And I have videos of the boysin their car seats and Coldplay,
(22:24):
like every song on his HeadFull of Dreams album.
We believe that it's justCarter.
It's Carter sending us thesesongs and so when this
particular song would come onthe radio, everett and Bennett
started this fist pump action tothe Carter song and it was just
(22:45):
this dance we did to celebrateCarter and, you know, to make it
fun, and the boys just werelike whoa, my mom is wild and
wacky, but we're joining in,we're in it.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
And they, you know, they do,they talk about him, they ask
questions.
I mean it's just, it's such abeautiful thing about that.
I honestly I know it had to bereally hard to tell the boys
what happened and they were tooyoung to know all the details.
(23:24):
And all that conversation isstill going to be down your road
, your path with them.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
So when they were little, you know, I told them
that Carter had been hurt reallybadly and he was in heaven.
So that's kind of how I handledit.
But you know, my little Bennett, who is 10, is always listening
, always right there, you know,around the corner listening, and
so he overheard a lot ofconversations and so one night
(23:54):
he came to me and was like Mom,did Carter get hurt by a bad guy
?
I said, oh, buddy, yeah, he did, he did.
He's like no one can help himget better.
I was like no, but his angelstook him.
They took him to heaven andafter we had that conversation,
(24:16):
I truly believe that Carter satwith the boys at night.
I just have this sense, becauseevery morning Bennett would say
things like wild things, likeMom, carter's in heaven and he
(24:36):
is building things, and Carterwanted to be an engineer.
And I was like, wow, that isawesome, buddy, bennett wouldn't
have known that he wanted to bean engineer?
Speaker 2 (24:46):
No, no.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
And he's like yep, mom Carter told me he's building
things in heaven.
I was like wow, I mean, youjust can't write these, you
can't even make this up.
I mean these little people.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
We didn't know that he had taken photos and had
stolen a camera, and Bennett wasthe one that told Melissa I
(25:21):
forgot about that, melissa toldme.
We told the police and they werescouring because he had just
thrown things out of his windowas he was trying to get rid of
evidence.
They found the camera he hadtaken the film.
So we never saw it, but thecamera that was Carter's, that
my dad had given him.
It was a camera my dad had gotwhen he was overseas in Vietnam
(25:45):
and had given this camera to mydad.
And they found it.
And Bennett was the one thatwoke up and told Melissa that
one morning Unreal.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
It is.
And you know, being here inRapid City it's just so hard
because I want nothing more tobe with my sister, you know, and
Greta and Jeremy.
But, and I didn't know if I wastelling the right, telling this
(26:15):
story in the right manner to myboys.
I didn't know.
And you know I remember askingthe pediatrician like this is
the situation, and you knowthere are my Bennett is asking a
lot of questions, what is theright thing to say to a little
(26:36):
buddy, you know?
And our pediatrician saidMelissa, there's no wrong way to
say this, but I want toencourage you to tell your
children the truth and that thatdon't sugarcoat it.
Just tell them that he waskilled and you know he's not
(26:56):
with us anymore and our heartsare forever changed because of
that.
And I remember feeling like thisweight lifted because I was
always trying to make it soundbetter than it was or to, you
know, kind of shield them fromthis thing.
And the moment that Ken and Isat the boys down and told them,
you know, that Carter had beenshot by this boy and the both
(27:21):
Bennett and Everett cried and um, bennett said mom, I, I hate
that that happened and I wishthat wouldn't have happened.
But I'm really sad for that kidtoo.
Like he, his life's done.
I was like it absolutely is.
And we, we can be sad for himtoo.
That's absolutely true.
(27:42):
But you know what we're goingto focus on.
We're not focusing on that partof the story.
We're focusing on Carter's lifeand and who he is to us and who
he is to us.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I love that, oh my gosh, I know I do too.
That's wisdom, oh my I know it.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
What advice could you give other siblings, aunts and
uncles about how to take care ofyou?
And still, you know, put loveand attention towards us who
have lost somebody.
What do you do?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Oh God, I think showing up, you know, is so
important.
Just calling, talking aboutCarter, talking about your loved
one who's passed, bringing himinto conversations.
You know a lot of people youworry like, oh, they're getting
(28:44):
sick of me talking about.
I don't care, he is the lightof our life and I'm going to
tell the funny stories I'm goingto tell.
You know, I'm going to saythese hard conversations and if
it makes that person feelcomfortable, they're not meant
to be in our circle, you know.
So I think, talk about yourloved one often and all the time
(29:05):
, and call your sibling and showup.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
How did you take care of yourself?
Because I mean, you had majorgrief as well trauma grief, all
the things.
How have you taken care ofyourself in this?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I think, as we all do , you know, I find like peace in
being outside, and so I wasconstantly taking my boys and
we'd go to the park or we'd gojust in the backyard putting on
music.
I think Michelle gave greatadvice to us early on, you know
(29:45):
set aside your grief time, andthat because I had to be kind of
on, you know, and be there too.
So, yeah, um, but I think whatMichelle has led us um through
this journey is, when that griefstrikes cause it can come any
(30:08):
moment just let it, let it andhonor it, and then also it's
okay then to put it aside andthen keep going.
I think that, yeah, just honorthat, feel the fields.
That has helped a lot isletting it.
I think I did go to a counselorjust once.
(30:30):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think the good piece, I didget a tattoo.
That was really liberating,what is it?
So Carter gave a baseball toBennett for his first birthday
and in Carter's handwriting onthe baseball he said I can't
wait to play with you, buddy, soprecious I know.
(30:53):
So I took that baseball to thetattoo artist and said I need
this handwriting on me.
And so they took um, you know,made a little tattoo design in
his handwriting and it says addmore love to the world, and I
love it.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Do you know?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I have somebody say this I'm going to see I go off
script.
Michelle's all good and likewhat the agenda is.
And then there's Amy that justcomes in and like hey we need.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
We need the wrecking ball.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But wrecking ball, I like it too.
So I've had people say to mebefore I'm very close to Alec,
that have known him since he wasbirth, you know whatever family
that have said I'm so sorrythat I'm upset, I shouldn't be
more upset than you, and I justthink that that and I'm like no,
(31:52):
you loved him too.
Like it almost brings mecomfort to know that they are
upset as well.
Like have you ever felt like Ishouldn't be more upset than her
, or does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Well, I'm saying that , yeah, you know, I never felt
that, yeah, never.
But I, I know what you'resaying, you know, I, I.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Like you, look at Michelle and think she's so
strong in here I'm a mess.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yeah, I do understand that, yeah, I mean I think we
all have taken turns in thatmess and and helped each other
through it, and that doesn'tmean that I shouldn't have been
that, you know.
They're just.
It is that dark and heavy andit feels like you're drowning
(32:44):
sometimes.
But just allowing yourself tofeel the feels and also any
other aunt or sibling or anybodyout there.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
it's okay that you're upset and it's okay, for like
me or Michelle, to see you upsetabout it.
Like I mean, I don't want tosay it's a good thing, but it is
.
It's a good thing.
Like we need to know thatpeople loved our children just
as much as we did.
Like it's not a competitionwith who's sadder.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yes, and all of that, so that it's okay.
You know of of you, you know,walking this with your boys, um,
and I remember phone calls, youknow, and you would just be
destroyed and you'd be bawlingand not being able to talk.
And you know, melissa, we havethat relationship where we're
(33:36):
not.
You know she, she shared thatbecause you know she needed me
and I needed her.
You know, and, um, and you'reright, amy, like that does
strangely fill us up, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, it's not that we want you to hurt, but it does
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Right, and one of the things I want you to share,
just as we're kind of finishingup, is the ways in which you
celebrate Carter, because thatis something that people in
Melissa's life say about her isshe is just from the kids that
(34:20):
she teaches to the parents, toneighbors, she is the hostess
with the mostest and just bringsthis light.
Oh, michelle, I mean, whenshe's in the presence, you're
the focus and she does that forher students, and Melissa has
just found some ways to not justwith her boys, but to make
(34:43):
Carter a presence in other ways.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
So just share a couple of those ways that you
Well, I mean, as a teacher, Ithink it's important to share
parts of you that are real toyour students, and so I always
share with my class the story ofCarter.
We do a project aroundValentine's Day it's like a
(35:10):
kindness challenge and we sayhow we're going to add more love
to the world.
I have these like my mostprecious items in my classroom.
Carter would always come andhelp me set up my classroom and
he made these posters for me andit has like a poem for every
holiday in his handwriting andso I yes, I have that, you know,
(35:36):
as like a huge part of ourclassroom community.
So Carter is very much well andalive in my classroom with my
friends, my adult friends.
You know he is very much a partof my friendships.
You know I have a dear friendwho loves to run and she was
(36:00):
running when it was snowy outand she wrote add more love in
the snow and sent me a picture.
I think people, just becausethey love us, they in return
love Carter and that is sospecial and I have made it my
(36:21):
goal, I guess my mission, to domy best to live big like Carter,
to love big, to say what's onyour heart to not withhold.
You know those words like Ilove you.
You know to say it and mean it,and I do believe that as a
(36:42):
teacher, it's such an awesomeway to pass on his legacy for
sure.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I love you, melissa oh man.
I love you so much.
I love you, melissa oh man.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
I love you.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Amy.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Y'all's bond and just all of it.
I just love it, I love thaty'all have each other you know,
and the Melanie too, but I justlove the bond that y'all have in
the family and just the coreyou know.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah, gosh, we are lucky, the blessing in this and
I'm so honored that I get tospeak on here.
But I love that we can honestlysay that we have no regrets
with Carter.
That we always said that weloved him and we had the most
(37:43):
fun when we were together.
We, man, we had fun.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
And I feel really good about that and I do it too
he knew the love that all of youhad for him and that he had for
y'all, and that, oh my gosh,that what you just said right
there, that you have no regretswhatsoever.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Of course you want more time and you want more fun
and adventures, but the time wedid have, I just, I'm so proud
of it.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I think that helps bring peace too, to know that I
did everything that we enjoyedevery moment we had together.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
We did, and that's something that the three of us
sisters really try really hard,particularly with the men in our
lives you know of, you knowthey're, you know they feel like
they should have protected orthat there's um, you know that
they could have done more, andthat's something with our dad in
(38:43):
particular that you know.
I think the three of us really,in our own ways, but with our
mom too, is just making surethey hear from us.
Gosh, remember when you didthis with Carter oh gosh.
Remember when, helping them walkback through those memories.
Yes, that's like pointing atwhat they did in those memories.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
You're absolutely correct, because that's
something that you know.
The men, they're the protectors, they're the.
I couldn't keep them safe.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Yeah, yeah.
And Melissa's really bothMelissa and Melanie are such
good kind of like historic well,all of our, all of us in our
family, these historianstorytellers.
You know that my dad is justthe most brilliant of all.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
And he started the trend.
He started it, oh yeah, hetaught y'all well.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's a long line of hurlies that are storytellers.
I love it, but that's soimportant.
I think that's something thatwhen I'm with Melissa, that she
really gifts to me, becausethere's so many pieces that you
forget a mom, and dad, and Gretatoo, and so for you know my
(40:03):
sibling to share that, you knowthose memories and you know,
like I had forgotten, melissa,that you were sick that Saturday
.
You know that the night beforethat Sunday night, you know just
hearing, you know just keeping.
I guess you know talking aboutthat, even when it's hard, even
(40:23):
when it's sad, and somehowthat's that sadness gets re kind
of quilted into somethingthat's really beautiful.
Yes, amazing.
I love you.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
I love you.
I love you too.
This was awesome.
Thank you so much.
I wish I had sisters.
Oh, I have my Carter picturehere.
I love it, and I lit a littlecandle for him.
Oh, yeah.
Thank you guys, this is just anhonor.
Oh, melissa, thank you.
(41:02):
I man what your moms, you are,and I just admire and wrap you
all up well thank you so much,you all right all your, your
boys, a smooch I will.
It's nice to see you and meetyou, Amy.
You too, Melissa.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Thank you.
Thank you All right, michelle.
I guess until next time we'llhave another sibling on one day,
right, that's right.
Awesome, all right.
Well, thank you both, bye, bye.
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