May 30, 2025 • 38 mins
Grief impacts every member of a family differently, but we rarely hear directly from children about their experience of loss. In this extraordinary conversation, 13-year-old Layla opens up about losing her brother Alec to addiction when she was just six years old, offering a rare window into a child's grief journey.
Layla's memories of her brother shine with admiration as she recalls him as "always my biggest role model" and shares touching stories of building elaborate cardboard forts together. Her perspective challenges common assumptions about childhood grief, revealing how deeply children comprehend loss despite their limited vocabulary to express it. With remarkable wisdom, she articulates how her young mind grappled with guilt, wondering if a missed goodbye hug might have somehow changed her brother's fate.
The conversation unveils the creative ways children process grief, from the journals Layla and her mother created to write letters to Alec, to the comfort objects and memorial activities that help maintain connection. Particularly moving is Layla's description of how grief manifests in ways adults might not recognize—heightened separation anxiety, fear of losing other family members, and grief that resurfaces years later as cognitive understanding develops.
Her advice to other grieving children is equally powerful: "Don't hide your emotions from your parents, even if you think it'll make things worse...they want you to talk to them."
Listen now to this touching conversation with Michele, Amy, and Layla that will forever change how you understand and support children through grief. Have you encountered a child dealing with loss? Share this episode to help others recognize the unique needs of grieving children.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
We'd love to hear from our followers!
Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
Facebook: Warrior Moms-The Club No One Wants to Be In
Instagram: WarriorMoms.SurvivingChildLoss
With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, hello and welcome back to Boy your Moms.
I'm Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Amy Durham and we have a super special
guest tonight.
Yes, it is actually my sweetgirl, layla Hi.
Layla Hi, she is now 13 yearsold, but when Alec passed away,
she was seven, six.
When Alec passed away, she wasseven, six.
(00:26):
My brain doesn't work, nor doestime flies.
Right, she was in the firstgrade.
Yes, right there towards theend of school.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So anyway, oh my gosh .
Six years old Layla.
Well, we'll get into that.
First let's talk.
Six years old Layla.
We'll get into that First,let's talk.
Tell us about your brother Alec, from your words, your thoughts
, your memories.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I always had him in great memory.
He was always my biggest rolemodel, when he was here and when
he wasn't, I always looked upto him I loved him so much and I
still do and he was the coolesthe was he always drove me to
school and I never saw him, or Imight have, but, like in, his
(01:16):
worst?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
no, you never.
She never saw him in his badtimes and if I, did?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I didn't know.
So I only know him as the coolbrother who never did anything
wrong.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You said that he used to drive you to school.
He drove you to preschool, yeah, when you were probably four
years old.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And his forerunner.
I thought it was a homer, wedid not have a homer, it was a
forerunner.
But it felt that cool, right,we did not have a homer, it was
a four runner.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It felt that cool right, and he blasted his music
Cute.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
What kind of music did he listen to?
Rap.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Rap.
Yes, all of it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
He probably listened to everything except country.
Yeah, oh cute.
Oh my gosh, what's a memory ofsomething you did together with
Alec that you look back andyou're like, ah, that was such a
good time.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
My favorite memory is when me and then my other
brother, chase me, alec andChase we went ice skating Not
the ice skating itself, but onthe the way.
There we were all talking abouthow who we thought was gonna
fall and me and alec got all ofour money on chase.
Chase was the best ice skaterand we were both really bad.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's so cute oh my gosh probably the best, because
he knew he didn't want to fall?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, Probably.
We kept saying that he wasgoing to fall and he was driving
the car.
Chase was in the passenger seatand I was in the back seat and
I remember it.
That's probably one of myfavorite memories, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Oh, I love it.
One of the things I know yourmom has talked about was like
pillow forts and blanket forts.
And then there was a anotherone of my favorite memories and
we set them all up and we tapedthem together.
I don't know how he did it, buthe did it really good.
And then we sat in there and wejust like drew a bunch of
things for like hours, yeah, orit felt like hours.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I don't know how long , but he connected the boxes
together so it was literallylike a tunnel, like with turns,
oh cute.
What about the lookout tower?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
oh, yeah, there's like a whole red tower.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
That thing was in our basement for like three years
after yes, so that was one ofthose things where you don't you
know you can't get rid ofthings yeah, you're like what,
what do we do with thiscardboard thing?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
But my dad wanted to throw it away and my mom finally
got to the point where, like wehave to put this somewhere, but
I was the person who said thatwe couldn't move it.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, yeah, you had to be ready, right For sure.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It is now out of the basement but we have one of the
walls that has the drawings onit.
Oh, they both like he woulddraw a tree and she would draw
it.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I would try to draw the things he did.
I remember he was drawing atree and I didn't understand how
he made it look so good.
So I tried to draw it and itlooks really bad.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And keep in mind, this is a probably 23 year old
and a five year old Isn't thatprecious?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And he's right there inside the box with you.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, driving the whole thing literally, yeah,
tapping it together.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I remember my mom.
I remember asking my mom if Icould ask Alex to help me make
the box for him.
He came over and that's what wedid.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
He did it.
Yeah, he was like no, you can'tdo that.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And he built all my Lego sets.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Layla loved getting Legos, but she'd never put them
together.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
He would just do it.
Yeah, you wanted Alex to do itwith you.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yes, when he was in no Longer Bound.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I got Legos for Christmas and we Christmas and
we went and visited him and he Ibrought the Lego set for him to
put together Like his Christmasall in itself.
Do you remember when Alecpassed away?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, um, my parents both left the house and they
didn't make me go to school,because I didn't know that he'd
been missing for nine days.
Um, so my grandma came into townand I thought they were just
being really nice, but let herskip school right, skip school
right my grandma and me and mygrandma, we were just hanging
(05:57):
out and I was like I rememberthinking earlier in that day I
was thinking this is the bestday ever I'm home from school.
Nothing can ruin this.
And we were going inside and meand my grandma were about to go
watch a movie and we madepopcorn and we were sitting down
and right before the moviestarted my mom and my dad walked
(06:21):
in and they were crying andthey told me that he was gone.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh, sweetheart, I'm so sorry.
Those are really heavy memories, aren't they?
Yeah, Whew, in these sevenyears, what are some things that
you've learned from your momand dad about how to walk this
(06:47):
new path of missing Alec andcarrying your sadness?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's really hard.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
How they do it every day.
It blows my mind Because my mom, it was always just her and
Alec is my mind because my mom,it was always just her and Alec
and they were so close and Idon't understand how she does
that, because it'd be like melosing her.
And I don't understand how shedoes it every day and gets out
of bed and it makes me likereally inspired by her and all
(07:21):
that and thank you, I know.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I remember one of the first times, I think I was at
your house and your mom and Iwere early trying to figure out
this podcasting stuff and wekept calling you down Layla,
we're like I don't know.
You know, and we were trying.
I can't even remember what wewere doing, amy, but whatever it
(07:48):
was we weren't doing it welland you were so cute.
And then at one point, you know,when you're doing all this,
like try this cord, try this,try, you know whatever it was.
And and then you came back inand you said, can I say
(08:12):
something?
And I was like yeah, and shesaid, and you said, I'm just so
proud of y'all, like, and I just, I just remember just thinking
what a beautiful human you are,Like you know you were, let's
see, cause you're 13,.
You had to be 11 and a halfmaybe, yeah, and I just thought
Layla my gosh at 11 and a half,yeah, and I just thought Layla
my gosh at 11 and a half.
You didn't know me hardly, andyet here you were just willing
to say something that was sospecial.
I carry that with me when Imeet with your mom.
(08:35):
I think about that moment.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And Layla's always been a special sweetheart.
She's always been a sweetheart.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But do you think that you're extra kind to people
because you don't know whatthey're going through, or yeah,
it's like I always try to bereally nice to people because I
don't want them to be sad,because I know how it feels to
be sad and it doesn't feel good.
That's why I try to be nice topeople.
(09:04):
What?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
do you do when you're sad?
I mean that's inevitable, right?
I cry you.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
give yourself that space huh yeah, and I go see my
mom and she makes things better.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I just put a band-aid on it.
You know, band-aids always makeeverything better, right?
Yeah, one thing that we startedat the beginning, that Layla
always talks about, is what doyou want to tell them?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
sure um like a grief journal when I was young, I
couldn't really grasp the ideathat my brother was gone and
that was something really hardfor me and um.
So my mom came home one day Ithink this was probably in the
first month or two that hepassed and she brought three
journals was it two or three, Ican't remember, yeah, but and
(09:53):
she said these are gonna be ouralec journals.
And she said these two remindedme of him, and which one do you
think reminds you the most ofthem?
I picked one out and I had acat on the cover with a coffee
mug, because he loved cats andhe loved cats.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
He would wear crazy cat t-shirts and we had a cat
and just all the things.
Oh, cute.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And because I couldn't grasp the idea that he
was gone.
My mom was like so you canwrite letters to him and you'll
still see them?
And he will, because I knowthat he's in heaven, he's in a
better place, but he, it helpedme a lot and I always drew him
pictures and the thing I drewpictures of me and him, him
(10:42):
skateboarding and me riding mybike, and I drew, I wrote notes
to him on my cute littlesix-year-old handwriting.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I didn't write a lot.
But I look back at it sometimesand I haven't written, wrote in
it in a really long time.
But now, whenever I want totalk to him, I just say my
prayers.
I say, hey, God, can I talk?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
to Alec for a second and he brings him on over and
says here you go.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And then I talked to Alec in my head and even if he's
not there, I feel like it isand I can still talk to him in
ways, even though he doesn'trespond and I don't.
It's hard to remember Alecsometimes because I was so young
and I barely remember a lot.
But I don't really remember alot of the memories, but I
(11:32):
remember the person he was andthat's a lot to me and like all
that.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, you knew how he made you feel right, yeah.
Oh, that's beautiful.
One of the things that you weretelling your mom and I about
was sometimes that it's hardwith friends right With figuring
out how to talk about it andwhat's one of the kind of funny
(12:03):
ways you deal with it sometimesthat we all were talking about I
just joke about it, which isn'tthe best thing, but I do it
because for me, because alec wasa very sarcastic person the
sarcastic people like incrediblysarcastic, yeah, like over the
top sometimes so that's like thebest way for me I feel like to
(12:26):
talk about it is to bring him init.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
If that makes sense, yeah, um, so I do that.
And some people I know like arevery like secretive about that
stuff and like just don't wantto talk about it.
But for me, like joking, likenot joking like that sounds so
silly, being silly about it,yeah it makes it feel better in
a way, and to try to take thepain off of it and even though,
(12:50):
like and I think that's helped alot because I used to like buy
a lot, but like now I think Ihave like a day in the year,
like for like a time, becauselast year I just there was like
one weekend in October where Iwas so sad, and the year before
that it was like the same time,but it just it hit me like grief
(13:10):
and all that and it's justweird.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It is.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
We talk about that all the time, Michelle, about
how your body for whateverreason.
Yeah, you don't know the dateon the calendar, but somehow
it's there.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, your body just remembers it.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, I remember it was like the week before
Halloween.
I was picking out stuff orsomething and we were looking
through Alex's clothes because Ineeded a Hawaiian shirt for my
Hawaiian day at school.
And I saw all of his clothesand I just started bawling and
which is weird, because Inormally didn't cry about stuff
like that as much, I just wasbawling my eyes out and then,
(13:55):
the year following to that, Iwas at church camp and I got
scared to do something.
It was like jumping off the blobor something.
I got scared to do something.
It was like jumping off theblob or something.
I got scared to do that.
And grief just then hit me likecrazy and I just sat in my room
and I just cried andeverybody's like, are you okay?
And I was surrounded by peoplewho don't understand and it was
(14:17):
awful.
I wanted to go home.
I cried for like three hours.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It felt like it might have been like 30 minutes, but
it felt like so yeah, did youend up being able to talk with
somebody about?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
what it was.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I called my mom yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
They called me and we talked and she was a little
while away so it wasn't like Icould run down the street and do
it.
So she sat there and she.
You know, the older they get,the more they learn to process a
little bit I mean counselingand just experience is just like
we do.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And just even having the words right To be able to
spring sentences together fully,you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, a question Layla and I might jump forward
just, and we can continue totalk about this, but I don't
want to forget I have a lot ofmoms that will say and I know,
michelle, you do too is how doyou help your other children,
and is there some advice thatyou could tell moms out?
(15:15):
There From a mom's perspectiveyeah.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
For me it's my mom.
She always makes it not asecret thing to talk, about
which really helps me a lot ifever I want to talk about alec
or we do.
It's sometimes really hard forher, but she knows talking about
it is important, which makes merealize that too, like there
(15:41):
was one time we were in the carand I just had a question about
alex because, again, I didn't.
I knew him, but I didn't knowhim as well as yeah, well, you
were so young, yeah really youngand I had a question and we
just started talking about himand my mom just started crying
on the highway.
I felt really bad for makingher cry and she was like, but
this is just a part of it yeah,so that.
(16:03):
So that's something for me islike it's okay to be sad about
it and it's okay to askquestions.
So just be like open to yourkids about it and make sure that
they know it's not a secrettopic.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And you didn't make me cry that day.
I know, no, that's what I'msaying.
Day.
I know no, that's what I'msaying.
But, like in general with themoms, like you're in, make sure
your children know that youdidn't make them cry.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, you're just always sad, right it's just
always there, yeah, so don't beafraid to bring it up, and I
always got scared, like talkingto my mom about it, because,
like when I was younger, cause Ialways was like, but what if
this was my fault?
Like what if I was the reason?
Because my biggest regret inlife was the last time I saw
Alec.
I didn't give him a hug,goodbye, because I thought I was
(16:50):
going to see him again.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And I was just playing with my toys Me and my
friend made like a dollhouse andI was playing in it and I
remember watching him walk outthe door and I always thought
like right after he passed I waslike if I had given him a hug
that could have changed thedynamics of everything and all
the stuff in here.
And I just tried.
So something else is makingsure your kids know it's not
(17:12):
their fault.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Oh, that is so my little six-year-old brain.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
What could have I done to make that not happen?
And even though it's somethingthat small, it wasn't my fault
and that's hard to know.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Gosh, that's so incredibly important.
That is wow, that is really.
That's a huge piece of advice,layla.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, and I don't think Layla's alone in that with
children, from what Iunderstand, talking with
counselors and stuff like thatis yeah, it's, it's not, you're
not alone.
But a lot of childrenespecially feel like what could
I have done?
This is all my fault, and thatis an extremely important is to
make sure they know you did notcause this.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You could not have stopped this yeah yeah, and
something else is um, when mycounselor told me, this is when,
since I was so young, I, mybrain, did this thing, I guess,
where it saves your grief forwhen you get older because you
(18:23):
can't process it.
So, knowing that like and momsof course know this, because
because, we're moms, yeah,everything but like it will just
hit and it will feel like thefirst time again.
But it will happen to us too,because I like it was bad when
(18:44):
it first happened.
But then there was like a pointI think I was in fifth or sixth
grade and I just like I startedthinking about it a lot and I
started having questions.
Also, there's like weird thingsthat I'll do to help me with it
, like I slept in my parentsroom till I was literally
(19:04):
probably the beginning of thisyear.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I was, greta did too.
Layla, yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh yeah, it was three years, I think, um, because
Greta was third, fourth, fifth,six, four years yeah, yeah, and
I did because I was so scaredthat um something would happen
to me or my family that.
I couldn't control and we wouldhave to go through that pain
(19:34):
again, either me or somebodyelse, because that's just such a
traumatic experience.
I was so scared that our housewould catch on fire and I either
wouldn't make it out or myparents wouldn't and I would
never see them again, or theywould never see me again.
And somebody would have to gothrough that pain and I was so
scared of just little things.
(19:56):
I couldn't if my mom was.
There was one time y'all werecoming home from a warrior mom's
meeting, actually, and it wasreally rainy and I couldn't get
with.
I couldn't be without like.
I had to be within five feet ofmy dad at all times because I
was so scared.
(20:16):
It was nighttime.
I was so scared Somebody wasabout to barge through the door
or I was so scared that my momwas going to get in a wreck
because if she would hide her,something would happen.
This was literally probablylike last week not really that
bad.
This is probably like fivemonths ago I was so scared.
It's just really random stufflike that.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
What helps you with that?
Therapy helps you with thatTherapy.
Yeah, I mean that's, that's forall of us.
I think it it helps to one justto say these things out loud
but then to talk to aprofessional that can sort of,
you know, guide us through.
This is normal, this is.
You know, some strategies,those things, yeah, and she
(21:01):
helps you.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Your counselor helps you a lot with the strategies
and the cause explaining and herunderstanding what's going on
in her brain.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Cause I have OCD and I think it was triggered a lot
of it by Alec passing.
So and that's what she helps mewith is the fear and pain that
goes along with that and thethings that my brain says I can
do to prevent something elsehappening, but that will never.
(21:30):
I can't control that so just by, like, stopping trying to make
things change, which is reallyreally, really hard.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Really hard, yeah, but just you knowing that and
knowing just you being able toput words to it, that's that's
so important and really powerful.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Well, and for other moms out there and kids too,
like Layla was very willing togo to see a counselor from from
early on.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I thought it was just a fun person to talk to yeah,
she did play therapy when shewas.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
you know, when they're young, they start with
it.
It's called play therapy.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, greta did too.
I remember saying somethinglike that and I didn't know if I
went to that.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Greta did too.
They had a dollhouse.
I loved it yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
This is a sandbox.
That's awesome so, but she didconnect with them.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And, but the lady who did it is.
There was some parts where shewas talking about she's like oh
well, my grandma died, so Iunderstand how you feel and I
was like, but you don't.
And you and I was like, but youdon't.
And that's like something likepeople would try to relate to me
and make me feel better, but Iwas like but you don't
understand?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
yeah, it's, it is really hard.
I mean, um, they understandsadness, it's just they don't
understand the same type ofsadness.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You know, and that's why I have so much respect for
y'all, and I know what pain Ifelt, and to know how it's like
a thousand million times worse,just like, is mind-boggling to
me, because I can't understandhow y'all do it do you ever feel
(23:26):
like you and I don't mean tosound, you know me, I don't know
how to say the right wordsometimes, but that you've ever
been ever.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I never have the right words, ever, I know but
have you ever felt likeforgotten, like like unseen,
like maybe we spent so much time, like, especially in the
earlier days, that I was sofocused on my grief with Alec?
Did you ever feel like?
I don't want to say that Iignored you?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
No, I know you didn't , but Um again, I was so young
and I've thought about this tomyself.
Um, I always thought, if thishappened to me now, I don't
think I could live with myself,I don't think like, but I would
get over it, I would be able todo it.
That's why I was always soscared, but I would be able to
(24:08):
be okay, and that's somethingalso therapy has taught me.
But I never saw my mom, in herbeing depressed, in her not
being able to get out of bed,and all of that because it was
hidden.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
From that week of the week after he passed, our house
was filled with people and foodand family members and toys for
people who gave them to me tobe, happy and all that, and I
tried to make my mom happy whenthat happened.
(24:47):
I wrote books about Alec and Iwrote them about his stuffed
animals and I always tried tomake my mom happy but it was
hard because she wasn't, andthat's pretty much all I really
remember about my mom duringthat time.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
But there was me trying to help her but I didn't
know how Well, and it soundslike you did, between your
conversations and sleeping nextto her and your journals, and
just you being so proud of yourmom, like it sounds like you two
(25:28):
have really learned a lot fromeach other.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well and that's something, too, that I always
say is, I never wanted to.
I still don't ever want to putthe burden on her, but you don't
.
I know that's what I'm saying,but yeah, and I know you and I
know that, but I never want toput that burden on her to make
her feel like she has, to makeme happy.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You know, yeah, I know moms who can't.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And for me it's like my mom has found something that
brings her like pieces of Alecas she goes and that's the pizza
party and letting his memorymove on.
And there's things that makeher really mad, like when people
like there's something for thepie day.
Somebody said, um, tea andcakes pizza party, not alex
(26:17):
pizza party, and forgetting thatand for me I've had to.
I understand that pain and it'slike hard.
So seeing my mom she still getsmad about things every now and
then still makes her upset.
And there's days where they getreally hard and I try to check
in on her without, like when itgets close to the day that he
passes away or his birthday Isay, hey, how are I'm good?
(26:42):
We dance along the lines ofasking and like questions.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, yeah.
What do you like about thatpizza day?
Well, first from your.
How would you explain it tosomebody that hasn't ever been
to Alex pizza party?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
It's raising awareness for addiction and my
mom doing all that has taught meand this also helps me, because
it's always a sensitive topicfor me is drugs and vapes and
alcohol, and that's something alot of kids my age do.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
And a lot of people I know do it, and it's really
hard for me to listen to thatbecause I know my brother did it
in eighth grade.
He started and he became anaddict and as life went on it
made it hard for my mom andeventually it made it hard for
(27:41):
everybody around us and ended upkilling him so that's a really
hard thing for me, um, which iswhy I really like the pizza
party, because I can invite allmy friends and all of the people
I know and hopefully they canlearn about it so they't, so
(28:03):
they don't do that to theirfamilies.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Now, wherever that, and that's what it means to me.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
She has a blast out there and all of her friends
have so much time.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Oh, and it's really cool it is I mean it's, you know
, and every year you guys havedifferent themes.
But it's really cool, it is.
I mean it's, you know, andevery year you guys have
different themes.
But it's so kid, you know, kidoriented, and it's educational,
but it's uplifting.
You know everything from justhow cute it's all decorated to
pictures of Alec and other guysfrom no Longer Bound and Tea and
(28:42):
Cake.
It's just, it's a beautifulthing.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
We designed it to be a fun time to bring in the
middle schoolers, the highschoolers, the college kids, the
ones you know that need to beeducated at a young age to carry
through If I went to a publicschool and I never heard
anything about drugs, vapes,alcohol and I wasn't a good kid.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Even if you were a good kid, even if I was a good
kid, there's a chance that Iwould.
Oakville Middle School.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
They have let's not call anybody out.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
No, I'm saying no, I'm saying they have over half
the school.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
There's a lot of eighth graders that vape.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Let's just say that and sixth graders.
And seventh graders, it's justthe entire school and it's just
sad because people don'tunderstand and that's a problem
for me because, it's.
It's a gateway.
I carry that burden with me tothink that I can change
somebody's future because ofwhat happened to me in the past.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
That's hard for me to carry, because I think if I
tell somebody something then itwould be oh, maybe they won't do
this, and it's just like a wayof things and it's like maybe
they won't do this, Maybe theywon't become an addict.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Maybe they won't do this, maybe they won't become an
addict, maybe they won't well,and that's where we just have to
keep going and keep preachingand keep saying it.
I know, and hopefully oneperson, even if just one person,
learns it and share it withsomebody else, that's the ripple
effect.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah yeah, and all you can control is you, and so
you know you can share yourstory and share what you know,
and bring your friends and havefun doing it, right.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Sorry, I just went on a rant.
No, it's okay.
I don't know where she getsthat from, michelle.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, you are in good company, my love, so I guess
gosh my love.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So I guess, gosh, what else do we need to know?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Michelle, you're a mom what do you need to know?
Yeah, I mean you answered thequestions.
I wanted to know what advicemaybe that you would give.
So you gave mom's advice, butwhat advice would you give kids
(31:06):
about how to navigate this?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
How to navigate the grief and your parents' grief
almost.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, that's hard.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
It is hard.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Let me try to think of the words Hold on.
It is hard.
Let me try to think of thewords Hold on.
There's going to be hard days,but it gets better.
But don't, I'm not going to sayit gets better, because that's
a hard promise to keep.
I think about Alec andeverything I do, but knowing
(31:50):
things that you can see, likeseeing things that remind them
of you, seeing things thatremind them of you, is like
Alec's a brown bird.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Any single time I see a brown bird, that's what I
think yeah and that's helps meyeah, so looking for little
things that remind you of yoursibling yeah, and then, when you
were younger, you would sleepwith his bear.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I would, and it's so hard to explain it hits.
It's like a huge bubble wrappedin things.
I always watch TV and stuff toget rid of the emotions, to give
(32:39):
my brain a pause.
That just pushes it back.
So don't avoid the pain,because your body needs to do it
to process it feel the feels,feel the feels that's what your
mom says.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I don't mean to make a joke out of it, but that's,
that's that humor part of it.
Right, it's the humor part thatwe have to laugh, yeah I joke
about it with my friends so bad.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Well, and that's something else too, that she you
know Layla's an actress and shechooses to do comedy because,
because it makes me feel makepeople feel better, Because even
in their darkest moments, Ialways want to make people happy
, because I want to remind themthat there's always good at the
end of the tunnel.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
That's right.
There's always a silver liningand something else.
I think that, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And me.
I've always wanted to havestuff to remind me of Alec, so
ever since I was in third gradeI've wanted a tattoo.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
We're not getting one today.
Yeah right, she will need to be18.
That's right, but you knowwhatever.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Anyways, but that's something.
When I was in third and fourthgrade, I always drew the tattoo
I wanted on myself.
It helped me remind myself ofhim and know that he's still
with me.
And whenever I went to a campthe summer, he passed and I was
so scared to do it.
It was like a Cirque du Soleilcamp, but I was so scared to go
(34:14):
on the top of the bar and I waslike you know what I'm going to
do this?
Because Alec skateboarded downlike mountains Not mountains,
but you know.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And I was like he would do this in five seconds,
so using your siblings, asthey're still there and not and
not be happy.
Why?
How do I?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
say be happy that.
You say Be happy that you havethem, be happy that you had them
For as long as you did.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, and even though it's really hard to say goodbye
and to miss them and to knowthat you might not see them, at
least in this lifetime.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
It's.
They want you to be happybecause they love you and even
if you fight with your siblingsand you don't think that they
love you, they do yeah all thatit's beautiful it is.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
and one last thing, yes, and one last thing that I
do want um for kids to know isyou can't fix your moms, but you
want, you want to, and for themoms, that's the same way.
We want to fix you and we wantyou to be good and we don't want
you to struggle and hurt andeverything and and we can't we
(35:41):
can't fix you, you can't us, butwe can walk on this journey
together and that's where thecommunication and everything is.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, and like you said, layla, you can't run away
from it.
Always right, you have to faceit and feel it.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Don't hide your emotions from your moms, Even if
you think if I tell this tothem, it's going to make it 10
times worse.
So if you don't want to talk toyour mom, at least talk to
another parent or like a schoolcounselor or a teacher, because
I promise that there is peoplewho want to help you.
And if your mom, if you're likeI don't want to put this on my
(36:18):
mom, I don't want her to knowI'm sad, because it'll make her
feel worse and feel the pain oflosing a kid and a grieving kid,
which, first of all, yes, it'shard for them, but they want you
to talk to them.
But if you feel like thatbecause for me it's always like
excuses, and if I feel sadsometimes I don't want to bother
my mom if she's sad too.
(36:38):
So I'll either talk to my dador I'll call a friend.
So I'll either talk to my dador I'll call a friend, or you
can again like a schoolcounselor, like there is people
who want to help.
Even just writing down youremotions.
It makes them real and it'sscary.
But if your emotions are scary,it shows that you care and
shows that you love them andjust know that they are there
(37:00):
and they do love you and theystill do.
And just because they're nothere physically, they're still
here spiritually and they missyou just as much as you miss
them.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Perfectly said.
Oh my gosh.
So you talked about, like youlike, if you're thinking about
Alec what we ask this to a lotof our moms and other guests
like if you had to come up withthree words to describe your
brother that you would maybewant to latch on to, you know
some of those characteristics.
(37:32):
What would they be, you think?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Badass, cool and funny.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, I think you nailed it girl.
Well, I think you nailed it,girl.
You are not related to Amy, toyour mom at all.
That's so good, oh my gosh.
Well, Layla, thank you forbeing on.
We have wanted you to be onhere and we're so grateful and
(38:03):
love you to pieces.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Thank you for your openness and honesty.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, we'll have you back, that's for sure, and we
need to get you and Greta onhere, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
We need y'all in there together so y'all can have
a conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Oh my gosh, I love it .
That was so helpful.
My gosh.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
All right, well, next time.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Y'all have a great day.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Good night, goodbye.
Well, hello and welcome back to Boy your Moms.
I'm Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And I'm Amy Durham and we have a super special
guest tonight.
Yes, it is actually my sweetgirl, layla Hi.
Layla Hi, she is now 13 yearsold, but when Alec passed away,
she was seven, six.
When Alec passed away, she wasseven, six.
(00:26):
My brain doesn't work, nor doestime flies.
Right, she was in the firstgrade.
Yes, right there towards theend of school.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
So anyway, oh my gosh .
Six years old Layla.
Well, we'll get into that.
First let's talk.
Six years old Layla.
We'll get into that First,let's talk.
Tell us about your brother Alec, from your words, your thoughts
, your memories.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I always had him in great memory.
He was always my biggest rolemodel, when he was here and when
he wasn't, I always looked upto him I loved him so much and I
still do and he was the coolesthe was he always drove me to
school and I never saw him, or Imight have, but, like in, his
(01:16):
worst?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
no, you never.
She never saw him in his badtimes and if I, did?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I didn't know.
So I only know him as the coolbrother who never did anything
wrong.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You said that he used to drive you to school.
He drove you to preschool, yeah, when you were probably four
years old.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And his forerunner.
I thought it was a homer, wedid not have a homer, it was a
forerunner.
But it felt that cool, right,we did not have a homer, it was
a four runner.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It felt that cool right, and he blasted his music
Cute.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
What kind of music did he listen to?
Rap.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Rap.
Yes, all of it.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
He probably listened to everything except country.
Yeah, oh cute.
Oh my gosh, what's a memory ofsomething you did together with
Alec that you look back andyou're like, ah, that was such a
good time.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
My favorite memory is when me and then my other
brother, chase me, alec andChase we went ice skating Not
the ice skating itself, but onthe the way.
There we were all talking abouthow who we thought was gonna
fall and me and alec got all ofour money on chase.
Chase was the best ice skaterand we were both really bad.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
That's so cute oh my gosh probably the best, because
he knew he didn't want to fall?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, Probably.
We kept saying that he wasgoing to fall and he was driving
the car.
Chase was in the passenger seatand I was in the back seat and
I remember it.
That's probably one of myfavorite memories, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Oh, I love it.
One of the things I know yourmom has talked about was like
pillow forts and blanket forts.
And then there was a anotherone of my favorite memories and
we set them all up and we tapedthem together.
I don't know how he did it, buthe did it really good.
And then we sat in there and wejust like drew a bunch of
things for like hours, yeah, orit felt like hours.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I don't know how long , but he connected the boxes
together so it was literallylike a tunnel, like with turns,
oh cute.
What about the lookout tower?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
oh, yeah, there's like a whole red tower.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
That thing was in our basement for like three years
after yes, so that was one ofthose things where you don't you
know you can't get rid ofthings yeah, you're like what,
what do we do with thiscardboard thing?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
But my dad wanted to throw it away and my mom finally
got to the point where, like wehave to put this somewhere, but
I was the person who said thatwe couldn't move it.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, yeah, you had to be ready, right For sure.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It is now out of the basement but we have one of the
walls that has the drawings onit.
Oh, they both like he woulddraw a tree and she would draw
it.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I would try to draw the things he did.
I remember he was drawing atree and I didn't understand how
he made it look so good.
So I tried to draw it and itlooks really bad.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
And keep in mind, this is a probably 23 year old
and a five year old Isn't thatprecious?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And he's right there inside the box with you.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, driving the whole thing literally, yeah,
tapping it together.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
I remember my mom.
I remember asking my mom if Icould ask Alex to help me make
the box for him.
He came over and that's what wedid.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
He did it.
Yeah, he was like no, you can'tdo that.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
And he built all my Lego sets.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Layla loved getting Legos, but she'd never put them
together.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
He would just do it.
Yeah, you wanted Alex to do itwith you.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yes, when he was in no Longer Bound.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I got Legos for Christmas and we Christmas and
we went and visited him and he Ibrought the Lego set for him to
put together Like his Christmasall in itself.
Do you remember when Alecpassed away?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Yeah, um, my parents both left the house and they
didn't make me go to school,because I didn't know that he'd
been missing for nine days.
Um, so my grandma came into townand I thought they were just
being really nice, but let herskip school right, skip school
right my grandma and me and mygrandma, we were just hanging
(05:57):
out and I was like I rememberthinking earlier in that day I
was thinking this is the bestday ever I'm home from school.
Nothing can ruin this.
And we were going inside and meand my grandma were about to go
watch a movie and we madepopcorn and we were sitting down
and right before the moviestarted my mom and my dad walked
(06:21):
in and they were crying andthey told me that he was gone.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh, sweetheart, I'm so sorry.
Those are really heavy memories, aren't they?
Yeah, Whew, in these sevenyears, what are some things that
you've learned from your momand dad about how to walk this
(06:47):
new path of missing Alec andcarrying your sadness?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
It's really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
It's really hard.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
How they do it every day.
It blows my mind Because my mom, it was always just her and
Alec is my mind because my mom,it was always just her and Alec
and they were so close and Idon't understand how she does
that, because it'd be like melosing her.
And I don't understand how shedoes it every day and gets out
of bed and it makes me likereally inspired by her and all
(07:21):
that and thank you, I know.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I remember one of the first times, I think I was at
your house and your mom and Iwere early trying to figure out
this podcasting stuff and wekept calling you down Layla,
we're like I don't know.
You know, and we were trying.
I can't even remember what wewere doing, amy, but whatever it
(07:48):
was we weren't doing it welland you were so cute.
And then at one point, you know,when you're doing all this,
like try this cord, try this,try, you know whatever it was.
And and then you came back inand you said, can I say
(08:12):
something?
And I was like yeah, and shesaid, and you said, I'm just so
proud of y'all, like, and I just, I just remember just thinking
what a beautiful human you are,Like you know you were, let's
see, cause you're 13,.
You had to be 11 and a halfmaybe, yeah, and I just thought
Layla my gosh at 11 and a half,yeah, and I just thought Layla
my gosh at 11 and a half.
You didn't know me hardly, andyet here you were just willing
to say something that was sospecial.
I carry that with me when Imeet with your mom.
(08:35):
I think about that moment.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And Layla's always been a special sweetheart.
She's always been a sweetheart.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
But do you think that you're extra kind to people
because you don't know whatthey're going through, or yeah,
it's like I always try to bereally nice to people because I
don't want them to be sad,because I know how it feels to
be sad and it doesn't feel good.
That's why I try to be nice topeople.
(09:04):
What?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
do you do when you're sad?
I mean that's inevitable, right?
I cry you.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
give yourself that space huh yeah, and I go see my
mom and she makes things better.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I just put a band-aid on it.
You know, band-aids always makeeverything better, right?
Yeah, one thing that we startedat the beginning, that Layla
always talks about, is what doyou want to tell them?
Speaker 3 (09:29):
sure um like a grief journal when I was young, I
couldn't really grasp the ideathat my brother was gone and
that was something really hardfor me and um.
So my mom came home one day Ithink this was probably in the
first month or two that hepassed and she brought three
journals was it two or three, Ican't remember, yeah, but and
(09:53):
she said these are gonna be ouralec journals.
And she said these two remindedme of him, and which one do you
think reminds you the most ofthem?
I picked one out and I had acat on the cover with a coffee
mug, because he loved cats andhe loved cats.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
He would wear crazy cat t-shirts and we had a cat
and just all the things.
Oh, cute.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And because I couldn't grasp the idea that he
was gone.
My mom was like so you canwrite letters to him and you'll
still see them?
And he will, because I knowthat he's in heaven, he's in a
better place, but he, it helpedme a lot and I always drew him
pictures and the thing I drewpictures of me and him, him
(10:42):
skateboarding and me riding mybike, and I drew, I wrote notes
to him on my cute littlesix-year-old handwriting.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I didn't write a lot.
But I look back at it sometimesand I haven't written, wrote in
it in a really long time.
But now, whenever I want totalk to him, I just say my
prayers.
I say, hey, God, can I talk?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
to Alec for a second and he brings him on over and
says here you go.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And then I talked to Alec in my head and even if he's
not there, I feel like it isand I can still talk to him in
ways, even though he doesn'trespond and I don't.
It's hard to remember Alecsometimes because I was so young
and I barely remember a lot.
But I don't really remember alot of the memories, but I
(11:32):
remember the person he was andthat's a lot to me and like all
that.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, you knew how he made you feel right, yeah.
Oh, that's beautiful.
One of the things that you weretelling your mom and I about
was sometimes that it's hardwith friends right With figuring
out how to talk about it andwhat's one of the kind of funny
(12:03):
ways you deal with it sometimesthat we all were talking about I
just joke about it, which isn'tthe best thing, but I do it
because for me, because alec wasa very sarcastic person the
sarcastic people like incrediblysarcastic, yeah, like over the
top sometimes so that's like thebest way for me I feel like to
(12:26):
talk about it is to bring him init.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
If that makes sense, yeah, um, so I do that.
And some people I know like arevery like secretive about that
stuff and like just don't wantto talk about it.
But for me, like joking, likenot joking like that sounds so
silly, being silly about it,yeah it makes it feel better in
a way, and to try to take thepain off of it and even though,
(12:50):
like and I think that's helped alot because I used to like buy
a lot, but like now I think Ihave like a day in the year,
like for like a time, becauselast year I just there was like
one weekend in October where Iwas so sad, and the year before
that it was like the same time,but it just it hit me like grief
(13:10):
and all that and it's justweird.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It is.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
We talk about that all the time, Michelle, about
how your body for whateverreason.
Yeah, you don't know the dateon the calendar, but somehow
it's there.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, your body just remembers it.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Yeah, I remember it was like the week before
Halloween.
I was picking out stuff orsomething and we were looking
through Alex's clothes because Ineeded a Hawaiian shirt for my
Hawaiian day at school.
And I saw all of his clothesand I just started bawling and
which is weird, because Inormally didn't cry about stuff
like that as much, I just wasbawling my eyes out and then,
(13:55):
the year following to that, Iwas at church camp and I got
scared to do something.
It was like jumping off the blobor something.
I got scared to do something.
It was like jumping off theblob or something.
I got scared to do that.
And grief just then hit me likecrazy and I just sat in my room
and I just cried andeverybody's like, are you okay?
And I was surrounded by peoplewho don't understand and it was
(14:17):
awful.
I wanted to go home.
I cried for like three hours.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
It felt like it might have been like 30 minutes, but
it felt like so yeah, did youend up being able to talk with
somebody about?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
what it was.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I called my mom yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
They called me and we talked and she was a little
while away so it wasn't like Icould run down the street and do
it.
So she sat there and she.
You know, the older they get,the more they learn to process a
little bit I mean counselingand just experience is just like
we do.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
And just even having the words right To be able to
spring sentences together fully,you know.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, a question Layla and I might jump forward
just, and we can continue totalk about this, but I don't
want to forget I have a lot ofmoms that will say and I know,
michelle, you do too is how doyou help your other children,
and is there some advice thatyou could tell moms out?
(15:15):
There From a mom's perspectiveyeah.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
For me it's my mom.
She always makes it not asecret thing to talk, about
which really helps me a lot ifever I want to talk about alec
or we do.
It's sometimes really hard forher, but she knows talking about
it is important, which makes merealize that too, like there
(15:41):
was one time we were in the carand I just had a question about
alex because, again, I didn't.
I knew him, but I didn't knowhim as well as yeah, well, you
were so young, yeah really youngand I had a question and we
just started talking about himand my mom just started crying
on the highway.
I felt really bad for makingher cry and she was like, but
this is just a part of it yeah,so that.
(16:03):
So that's something for me islike it's okay to be sad about
it and it's okay to askquestions.
So just be like open to yourkids about it and make sure that
they know it's not a secrettopic.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And you didn't make me cry that day.
I know, no, that's what I'msaying.
Day.
I know no, that's what I'msaying.
But, like in general with themoms, like you're in, make sure
your children know that youdidn't make them cry.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Yeah, yeah, you're just always sad, right it's just
always there, yeah, so don't beafraid to bring it up, and I
always got scared, like talkingto my mom about it, because,
like when I was younger, cause Ialways was like, but what if
this was my fault?
Like what if I was the reason?
Because my biggest regret inlife was the last time I saw
Alec.
I didn't give him a hug,goodbye, because I thought I was
(16:50):
going to see him again.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And I was just playing with my toys Me and my
friend made like a dollhouse andI was playing in it and I
remember watching him walk outthe door and I always thought
like right after he passed I waslike if I had given him a hug
that could have changed thedynamics of everything and all
the stuff in here.
And I just tried.
So something else is makingsure your kids know it's not
(17:12):
their fault.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Oh, that is so my little six-year-old brain.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
What could have I done to make that not happen?
And even though it's somethingthat small, it wasn't my fault
and that's hard to know.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Gosh, that's so incredibly important.
That is wow, that is really.
That's a huge piece of advice,layla.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, and I don't think Layla's alone in that with
children, from what Iunderstand, talking with
counselors and stuff like thatis yeah, it's, it's not, you're
not alone.
But a lot of childrenespecially feel like what could
I have done?
This is all my fault, and thatis an extremely important is to
make sure they know you did notcause this.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
You could not have stopped this yeah yeah, and
something else is um, when mycounselor told me, this is when,
since I was so young, I, mybrain, did this thing, I guess,
where it saves your grief forwhen you get older because you
(18:23):
can't process it.
So, knowing that like and momsof course know this, because
because, we're moms, yeah,everything but like it will just
hit and it will feel like thefirst time again.
But it will happen to us too,because I like it was bad when
(18:44):
it first happened.
But then there was like a pointI think I was in fifth or sixth
grade and I just like I startedthinking about it a lot and I
started having questions.
Also, there's like weird thingsthat I'll do to help me with it
, like I slept in my parentsroom till I was literally
(19:04):
probably the beginning of thisyear.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I was, greta did too.
Layla, yeah, really yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh yeah, it was three years, I think, um, because
Greta was third, fourth, fifth,six, four years yeah, yeah, and
I did because I was so scaredthat um something would happen
to me or my family that.
I couldn't control and we wouldhave to go through that pain
(19:34):
again, either me or somebodyelse, because that's just such a
traumatic experience.
I was so scared that our housewould catch on fire and I either
wouldn't make it out or myparents wouldn't and I would
never see them again, or theywould never see me again.
And somebody would have to gothrough that pain and I was so
scared of just little things.
(19:56):
I couldn't if my mom was.
There was one time y'all werecoming home from a warrior mom's
meeting, actually, and it wasreally rainy and I couldn't get
with.
I couldn't be without like.
I had to be within five feet ofmy dad at all times because I
was so scared.
(20:16):
It was nighttime.
I was so scared Somebody wasabout to barge through the door
or I was so scared that my momwas going to get in a wreck
because if she would hide her,something would happen.
This was literally probablylike last week not really that
bad.
This is probably like fivemonths ago I was so scared.
It's just really random stufflike that.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
What helps you with that?
Therapy helps you with thatTherapy.
Yeah, I mean that's, that's forall of us.
I think it it helps to one justto say these things out loud
but then to talk to aprofessional that can sort of,
you know, guide us through.
This is normal, this is.
You know, some strategies,those things, yeah, and she
(21:01):
helps you.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Your counselor helps you a lot with the strategies
and the cause explaining and herunderstanding what's going on
in her brain.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Cause I have OCD and I think it was triggered a lot
of it by Alec passing.
So and that's what she helps mewith is the fear and pain that
goes along with that and thethings that my brain says I can
do to prevent something elsehappening, but that will never.
(21:30):
I can't control that so just by, like, stopping trying to make
things change, which is reallyreally, really hard.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Really hard, yeah, but just you knowing that and
knowing just you being able toput words to it, that's that's
so important and really powerful.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Well, and for other moms out there and kids too,
like Layla was very willing togo to see a counselor from from
early on.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I thought it was just a fun person to talk to yeah,
she did play therapy when shewas.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
you know, when they're young, they start with
it.
It's called play therapy.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, greta did too.
I remember saying somethinglike that and I didn't know if I
went to that.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Greta did too.
They had a dollhouse.
I loved it yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
This is a sandbox.
That's awesome so, but she didconnect with them.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And, but the lady who did it is.
There was some parts where shewas talking about she's like oh
well, my grandma died, so Iunderstand how you feel and I
was like, but you don't.
And you and I was like, but youdon't.
And that's like something likepeople would try to relate to me
and make me feel better, but Iwas like but you don't
understand?
Speaker 1 (22:49):
yeah, it's, it is really hard.
I mean, um, they understandsadness, it's just they don't
understand the same type ofsadness.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You know, and that's why I have so much respect for
y'all, and I know what pain Ifelt, and to know how it's like
a thousand million times worse,just like, is mind-boggling to
me, because I can't understandhow y'all do it do you ever feel
(23:26):
like you and I don't mean tosound, you know me, I don't know
how to say the right wordsometimes, but that you've ever
been ever.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I never have the right words, ever, I know but
have you ever felt likeforgotten, like like unseen,
like maybe we spent so much time, like, especially in the
earlier days, that I was sofocused on my grief with Alec?
Did you ever feel like?
I don't want to say that Iignored you?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
No, I know you didn't , but Um again, I was so young
and I've thought about this tomyself.
Um, I always thought, if thishappened to me now, I don't
think I could live with myself,I don't think like, but I would
get over it, I would be able todo it.
That's why I was always soscared, but I would be able to
(24:08):
be okay, and that's somethingalso therapy has taught me.
But I never saw my mom, in herbeing depressed, in her not
being able to get out of bed,and all of that because it was
hidden.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
From that week of the week after he passed, our house
was filled with people and foodand family members and toys for
people who gave them to me tobe, happy and all that, and I
tried to make my mom happy whenthat happened.
(24:47):
I wrote books about Alec and Iwrote them about his stuffed
animals and I always tried tomake my mom happy but it was
hard because she wasn't, andthat's pretty much all I really
remember about my mom duringthat time.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
But there was me trying to help her but I didn't
know how Well, and it soundslike you did, between your
conversations and sleeping nextto her and your journals, and
just you being so proud of yourmom, like it sounds like you two
(25:28):
have really learned a lot fromeach other.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Well and that's something, too, that I always
say is, I never wanted to.
I still don't ever want to putthe burden on her, but you don't
.
I know that's what I'm saying,but yeah, and I know you and I
know that, but I never want toput that burden on her to make
her feel like she has, to makeme happy.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You know, yeah, I know moms who can't.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
And for me it's like my mom has found something that
brings her like pieces of Alecas she goes and that's the pizza
party and letting his memorymove on.
And there's things that makeher really mad, like when people
like there's something for thepie day.
Somebody said, um, tea andcakes pizza party, not alex
(26:17):
pizza party, and forgetting thatand for me I've had to.
I understand that pain and it'slike hard.
So seeing my mom she still getsmad about things every now and
then still makes her upset.
And there's days where they getreally hard and I try to check
in on her without, like when itgets close to the day that he
passes away or his birthday Isay, hey, how are I'm good?
(26:42):
We dance along the lines ofasking and like questions.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, yeah.
What do you like about thatpizza day?
Well, first from your.
How would you explain it tosomebody that hasn't ever been
to Alex pizza party?
Speaker 3 (26:59):
It's raising awareness for addiction and my
mom doing all that has taught meand this also helps me, because
it's always a sensitive topicfor me is drugs and vapes and
alcohol, and that's something alot of kids my age do.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
And a lot of people I know do it, and it's really
hard for me to listen to thatbecause I know my brother did it
in eighth grade.
He started and he became anaddict and as life went on it
made it hard for my mom andeventually it made it hard for
(27:41):
everybody around us and ended upkilling him so that's a really
hard thing for me, um, which iswhy I really like the pizza
party, because I can invite allmy friends and all of the people
I know and hopefully they canlearn about it so they't, so
(28:03):
they don't do that to theirfamilies.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Now, wherever that, and that's what it means to me.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
She has a blast out there and all of her friends
have so much time.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Oh, and it's really cool it is I mean it's, you know
, and every year you guys havedifferent themes.
But it's really cool, it is.
I mean it's, you know, andevery year you guys have
different themes.
But it's so kid, you know, kidoriented, and it's educational,
but it's uplifting.
You know everything from justhow cute it's all decorated to
pictures of Alec and other guysfrom no Longer Bound and Tea and
(28:42):
Cake.
It's just, it's a beautifulthing.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
We designed it to be a fun time to bring in the
middle schoolers, the highschoolers, the college kids, the
ones you know that need to beeducated at a young age to carry
through If I went to a publicschool and I never heard
anything about drugs, vapes,alcohol and I wasn't a good kid.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Even if you were a good kid, even if I was a good
kid, there's a chance that Iwould.
Oakville Middle School.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
They have let's not call anybody out.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
No, I'm saying no, I'm saying they have over half
the school.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
There's a lot of eighth graders that vape.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Let's just say that and sixth graders.
And seventh graders, it's justthe entire school and it's just
sad because people don'tunderstand and that's a problem
for me because, it's.
It's a gateway.
I carry that burden with me tothink that I can change
somebody's future because ofwhat happened to me in the past.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
That's hard for me to carry, because I think if I
tell somebody something then itwould be oh, maybe they won't do
this, and it's just like a wayof things and it's like maybe
they won't do this, Maybe theywon't become an addict.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Maybe they won't do this, maybe they won't become an
addict, maybe they won't well,and that's where we just have to
keep going and keep preachingand keep saying it.
I know, and hopefully oneperson, even if just one person,
learns it and share it withsomebody else, that's the ripple
effect.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah yeah, and all you can control is you, and so
you know you can share yourstory and share what you know,
and bring your friends and havefun doing it, right.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Sorry, I just went on a rant.
No, it's okay.
I don't know where she getsthat from, michelle.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Well, you are in good company, my love, so I guess
gosh my love.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So I guess, gosh, what else do we need to know?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Michelle, you're a mom what do you need to know?
Yeah, I mean you answered thequestions.
I wanted to know what advicemaybe that you would give.
So you gave mom's advice, butwhat advice would you give kids
(31:06):
about how to navigate this?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
How to navigate the grief and your parents' grief
almost.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, that's hard.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
It is hard.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Let me try to think of the words Hold on.
It is hard.
Let me try to think of thewords Hold on.
There's going to be hard days,but it gets better.
But don't, I'm not going to sayit gets better, because that's
a hard promise to keep.
I think about Alec andeverything I do, but knowing
(31:50):
things that you can see, likeseeing things that remind them
of you, seeing things thatremind them of you, is like
Alec's a brown bird.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Any single time I see a brown bird, that's what I
think yeah and that's helps meyeah, so looking for little
things that remind you of yoursibling yeah, and then, when you
were younger, you would sleepwith his bear.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I would, and it's so hard to explain it hits.
It's like a huge bubble wrappedin things.
I always watch TV and stuff toget rid of the emotions, to give
(32:39):
my brain a pause.
That just pushes it back.
So don't avoid the pain,because your body needs to do it
to process it feel the feels,feel the feels that's what your
mom says.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
I don't mean to make a joke out of it, but that's,
that's that humor part of it.
Right, it's the humor part thatwe have to laugh, yeah I joke
about it with my friends so bad.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Well, and that's something else too, that she you
know Layla's an actress and shechooses to do comedy because,
because it makes me feel makepeople feel better, Because even
in their darkest moments, Ialways want to make people happy
, because I want to remind themthat there's always good at the
end of the tunnel.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
That's right.
There's always a silver liningand something else.
I think that, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And me.
I've always wanted to havestuff to remind me of Alec, so
ever since I was in third gradeI've wanted a tattoo.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
We're not getting one today.
Yeah right, she will need to be18.
That's right, but you knowwhatever.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Anyways, but that's something.
When I was in third and fourthgrade, I always drew the tattoo
I wanted on myself.
It helped me remind myself ofhim and know that he's still
with me.
And whenever I went to a campthe summer, he passed and I was
so scared to do it.
It was like a Cirque du Soleilcamp, but I was so scared to go
(34:14):
on the top of the bar and I waslike you know what I'm going to
do this?
Because Alec skateboarded downlike mountains Not mountains,
but you know.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And I was like he would do this in five seconds,
so using your siblings, asthey're still there and not and
not be happy.
Why?
How do I?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
say be happy that.
You say Be happy that you havethem, be happy that you had them
For as long as you did.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, and even though it's really hard to say goodbye
and to miss them and to knowthat you might not see them, at
least in this lifetime.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
It's.
They want you to be happybecause they love you and even
if you fight with your siblingsand you don't think that they
love you, they do yeah all thatit's beautiful it is.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
and one last thing, yes, and one last thing that I
do want um for kids to know isyou can't fix your moms, but you
want, you want to, and for themoms, that's the same way.
We want to fix you and we wantyou to be good and we don't want
you to struggle and hurt andeverything and and we can't we
(35:41):
can't fix you, you can't us, butwe can walk on this journey
together and that's where thecommunication and everything is.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, and like you said, layla, you can't run away
from it.
Always right, you have to faceit and feel it.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Don't hide your emotions from your moms, Even if
you think if I tell this tothem, it's going to make it 10
times worse.
So if you don't want to talk toyour mom, at least talk to
another parent or like a schoolcounselor or a teacher, because
I promise that there is peoplewho want to help you.
And if your mom, if you're likeI don't want to put this on my
(36:18):
mom, I don't want her to knowI'm sad, because it'll make her
feel worse and feel the pain oflosing a kid and a grieving kid,
which, first of all, yes, it'shard for them, but they want you
to talk to them.
But if you feel like thatbecause for me it's always like
excuses, and if I feel sadsometimes I don't want to bother
my mom if she's sad too.
(36:38):
So I'll either talk to my dador I'll call a friend.
So I'll either talk to my dador I'll call a friend, or you
can again like a schoolcounselor, like there is people
who want to help.
Even just writing down youremotions.
It makes them real and it'sscary.
But if your emotions are scary,it shows that you care and
shows that you love them andjust know that they are there
(37:00):
and they do love you and theystill do.
And just because they're nothere physically, they're still
here spiritually and they missyou just as much as you miss
them.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Perfectly said.
Oh my gosh.
So you talked about, like youlike, if you're thinking about
Alec what we ask this to a lotof our moms and other guests
like if you had to come up withthree words to describe your
brother that you would maybewant to latch on to, you know
some of those characteristics.
(37:32):
What would they be, you think?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Badass, cool and funny.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Well, I think you nailed it girl.
Well, I think you nailed it,girl.
You are not related to Amy, toyour mom at all.
That's so good, oh my gosh.
Well, Layla, thank you forbeing on.
We have wanted you to be onhere and we're so grateful and
(38:03):
love you to pieces.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Thank you for your openness and honesty.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yes, we'll have you back, that's for sure, and we
need to get you and Greta onhere, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
We need y'all in there together so y'all can have
a conversation.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Oh my gosh, I love it .
That was so helpful.
My gosh.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
All right, well, next time.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Y'all have a great day.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Good night, goodbye.
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