Ep. 02 (audio only): WATCHTOWER AFTER DARK - Smurf Girl aka Rose Bundy Interviews ExJDub (Mitch)

In episode 2 on Watchtower After Dark Smurf Girl aka Rose Bundy interviews Mitch to see how much he was involved with the Jehovah's Witness cult, something that bothered him a great deal, when he left, and his involvement with apostates before he left.

Of course, it wouldn't be a normal episode if Smurf Girl and Mitch didn't pick on the governing body some. We hope that you enjoy this episode. There is so much more to delve into with both hosts, so we hope that you stay tuned as both Rose and Mitch gradually peel away the many emotional layers recalling their time in the Jehovah's Witness cult. 

Website: www.theexjwnetwork.org 

YouTube:    / @WatchtowerAfterDark 

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Episode Transcript

UNKNOWN (00:00):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (00:34):
me smurf girl rose bundy how's it going so i
hijacked the show and i'm gonnainterview mitch instead how's it
going mitch x j dub

SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
it's going great thank you how are you

SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
good so i'm turning the tables and i want to ask you
some questions because you'relike what nine months out of the
organization that's new Are youscared?
Or was that like the last strawthat you were done?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
Like, was I afraid to leave?

SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
I was just done and tired of pretending and being
fake, but it was apprehension.
Like, not knowing what toexpect.
I mean, not wanting to let myfamily know.
That kind of crap.

SPEAKER_02 (01:26):
Yeah.
Was your overall impression ofthe apostates different once you
started to get into it andstuff?
Like, what was your firstimpression of apostates, of
demonized apostates?

SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
So I left in December of 2024, and I pretty
much kept to myself.
I didn't really reach out andlook for any apostates or
anything like that until the endof May.
I saw something just scrollingon the internet and it caught my

(02:01):
attention and it was anex-witness and I started looking
and you know, I'm afraid becausethey've just taught us the whole
time, stay away from apostates,like they're evil, they're mean,
they're going to be like damndemonic control.
So I didn't want anything to dowith them, but I watched, piqued

(02:22):
my interest and I just keptgoing down a rabbit hole and
looking.
Eventually I found you.

SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
yeah well good oh my god a safe place to fall that's
what i like to be is a safeplace to fall for people and so
then you just jumped in withboth feet then it

SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
was still apprehensive but then i was
interacting with someone over inum the uk and they asked me if i
had seen a document um theyposted it a couple of years ago
And they were trying to find itand they found it.
And it was actually a documentfrom one of the branches to a

(03:04):
body of elders in thecongregation telling them how to
handle a predator within thecongregation.
And that's what like just openedmy eyes and set me on a path I'm
on now.

SPEAKER_02 (03:16):
Because you were a ministerial servant, which in my
opinion, servants see more thanthe elders do.
Cause the servants like alertthe elders and they're like the
go between from a congregationmember to the elders where it's
like, well, maybe I'll talk to aservant first.

(03:37):
You know what I mean?
And they're more friendly.
You're not as scared.
They're at the literaturecounter.
So what were your duties as aministerial servant?

SPEAKER_00 (03:49):
I was over the AV department at the kingdom hall
and I was over the attendantdepartment.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
How long were you serving for?
Like,

SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
collectively, I would say about nine or ten
years.
But I was serving at threedifferent times.

SPEAKER_02 (04:13):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sometimes you are, then you'renot, and then you are.
You start with mics and stufflike

SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
that.
I was self-inflicted, though.
I would do things, I'd have toget my wrist slapped.
and removed.

SPEAKER_02 (04:28):
Oh, my God.
Oh, we forgot to say happy FezFriday to all the Shriners out
there.
And guess what?
Okay, is it on straight?
I can't see because of my eyes.

SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
Both me and Mitch, we got our right-hand rings on.
And we want to specify thatthese are indeed...
Masonic rings.

SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
I feel like Sam Heard.

SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Yeah, you are.
You're Sam Heard's littlebrother.
You're not as grouchy.
You're not as big of a bitch.

SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
I try not to be.

SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
I know.
He's a nicer, better brother.
You're now the faithful slave ofthe XJW network.
It's

SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
a big deal.
You're the

SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
token Mitch.

SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
come up with some dark light

SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
okay so now were you born in or how did you come into
the organization

SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
yeah i was uh born into it my parents got baptized
in 66 i was born in 70.

SPEAKER_01 (05:43):
oh wow

SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
like 1974 or 75 my father became an elder he's
still one so i've been deep intoit all my life

SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
So they came in when the whole 1975 deal was starting
to be hyped.

UNKNOWN (05:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
Nice.
Nice on you.
Nice on them, huh?
Did they give up a lot?
Do you remember giving up a lot?

SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Like coming up?

SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
Giving up a lot for 75.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
I was too young to remember

SPEAKER_02 (06:16):
that.

SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
Okay.
To remember 75, yeah.
But I know...
I know my parents looked forwardto it because, you know, that
was the hype when it came in.
But when I started to rememberit, it was past 75 when I
started to really remember theorganization.

SPEAKER_02 (06:35):
Yeah.
Are your parents alive or arethey both deceased?

SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
No, they're alive.
My mom had dementia real bad,but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (06:43):
Oh.
So you're old, but your dad'sgone?

SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
No, he's there too.

SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
is he still a witness

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
oh

SPEAKER_02 (06:53):
yeah oh we got to work on them

SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
yeah he's still an elder but uh i you know at this
point i just want them to likejust finish their lives out
clinging on to the whole thingyou know what i mean

SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
did they talk to you

SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
no

SPEAKER_02 (07:09):
okay hmm we'll have to work on that so um Your view
growing up as a witness then,when did you get baptized?
How

SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
old were

SPEAKER_02 (07:25):
you?

SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
I was 16.
Okay.
I was doing things around thecongregation already, like since
I was like 13.
And they were just like, youknow, you want to continue doing
things, you know, you probablyshould think about getting
baptized soon.
because I was already- Oh, sothey're

SPEAKER_02 (07:47):
pressuring you.

SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
Not pressuring me, but the elders, they were kind
of telling me, because I wasdoing a lot of things, and then
it was getting to the point,like, if I wanted to progress to
do more, you needed to be- Well,that's

SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
called pressuring, Mitch.
That's how

SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
they pressure.

SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
You want privileges, don't you?
Or, like, dangling that carrotof, like, you want to do my
things?

SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Like, I wanted to progress in the congregation.

SPEAKER_03 (08:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
Like, that's why I was 16.
You know, it's like someex-witnesses saying I was
pressured.
Like, I'm very vocal.
I wasn't pressured.
I was all for that organization.
Like, I wanted to progress inthe congregation, so I wanted to
get baptized.

SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
Yeah.
Well, that means they weresuccessful in baiting you.
That's called successfulbaiting.
Did you know that?
Where they bait you where youdon't even know it, you think
it's your own decision.
Where they goaded you into it sosuccessfully you thought it was
your own decision.
You know what I

SPEAKER_00 (08:55):
mean?
I get what you're saying, butthat conversation that I had
with them was I would say a yearand a half to two years prior to
me being baptized.
It's not like they told me that.
They told me that when I was 14,I think.
And like, I was still doingstuff around the congregation,
but you know, you get to acertain age and I'm like, you

(09:19):
know, I should probably getbaptized, man.
Well, yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
because otherwise something bad will happen.
You know, like, oh man, I'llprobably be seen as worldly or I
won't be invited to parties or,you know, you know that if you
don't, something bad is going tohappen,

SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
right?
I wasn't worried about beinginvited to parties.

UNKNOWN (09:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Oh, yeah.
No, you did.
Did you sneak around as ateenager?

SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Yeah, as long as I didn't worry about getting late
at the parties.
Me and the other elder kids, wehad our own little clique.
We didn't worry about being lateto nowhere.
I was one of the real elders.

SPEAKER_02 (10:01):
Was your dad an elder at that time?
What's the status of your dadgrowing up?

SPEAKER_00 (10:06):
He was an elder since 1974.

SPEAKER_02 (10:09):
Oh, wow.
Elder's kid forever.
So you got away with murder.

SPEAKER_00 (10:16):
Well, like I said, I didn't worry about being invited
to the party.
Like, I was the

SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
party.
You're probably like SamuelHeard's son.
That's what I'm saying.
You're Samuel Heard's son.
Just, yeah.
Okay, little Mr.
Sammy Davis Jr.
Samuel Heard Jr.
here.
Me

SPEAKER_00 (10:35):
and Sam, we knew when we had to be spiritual.

SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
I know, it's time, yeah, it's an obligatory ring
flag.
We got a ring flag.
Brothers and sisters, okay?
Like how much more, how muchmore do we need to do it?
Welcome

SPEAKER_00 (10:57):
to

SPEAKER_02 (10:57):
the XJW Network.
We need, oh, we need our, mythings, we need to put our
fingers on the Bible.
Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (11:08):
Here we

SPEAKER_02 (11:14):
are.
What do you think about it,Mitch?
That's what

SPEAKER_00 (11:18):
I'm going to end every episode.

SPEAKER_02 (11:21):
We

SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
love you.

SPEAKER_02 (11:25):
When you were a witness, this is another
question I got on my paper.
What was it like being on thereceiving end of our apostasy?
in recent years, like since 2017onward, in what ways did you
receive our apostasy at you?

(11:47):
Did you experience it?

SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
Oh, yeah.
I would say 2015, 2016.
I'm a ministerial servant, but Ihad started this Instagram
account, and it was JWmotivation.

(12:09):
And, you know, I would do memesand just like positive Jehovah's
Witness stuff, right?

SPEAKER_02 (12:15):
Oh, you were?

SPEAKER_00 (12:16):
Oh, yeah.
And it grew.
I had 85,000 followers.

SPEAKER_02 (12:20):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (12:21):
And every once in a while, several times a day,
apostates would come and commenton posts.
And they would just harass theshit out of me.

SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
That was probably all apostates subscribed to you.
100%.
No, what was it named?

SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
Up on my page.

SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
That was it, JW Motivation.

SPEAKER_02 (12:49):
Oh, that was you?
That was you?
Yeah, it's like, yeah, there'sthis stupid Jehovah's Witness
guy.
He's a real dope.
He's motivational.

(13:13):
You know what we said about you?

SPEAKER_00 (13:15):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (13:16):
We need to wake that guy up.
You know, we need to work onthis guy.
He does these motivationalthings.
Yeah.
I

SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
have my own little hustle back in here.

SPEAKER_02 (13:27):
But 85,000, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (13:31):
Yeah, from around the world, yeah.
I had to stop it, though.

SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
It got to be too much.
I'll just put it like this.
I made a video about this on myTikTok when I first started the
account, but I would get a lotof questionable photos and
videos from Jehovah's Witnesswomen

SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (13:58):
and like yeah it was great i was a servant i was
trying to be good so yeah

SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
were they what country were they mainly from
nigeria

SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
or i don't know it was like uh quite a few quite a
few from america uh brazil wascrazy

SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
I'm getting a lot from Brazil.
I get a lot from Nigeria.
I think I'm their cup of tea.
I've been told that I'm aNigerian guy's cup of tea.
I can see

SPEAKER_00 (14:36):
that, but the African friends grill me.

SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
The

SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
Africans do not like me right now.

SPEAKER_02 (14:46):
Oh, I bet.
I bet.
Yeah, it's like you turn...
No, they're jealous.
They're jealous.
Because those...
Oh, hello, Nigerian Jehovah'sWitness brothers.
I appreciate all of yourpictures online.
And...
Keep them coming.
I like it.
Keep it coming.
I appreciate it.

(15:07):
Don't worry about Mitch.
He's not going to get jealous.
But...
No, I got so...
Oh, yeah.
Oh, I forgot.
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (15:22):
Oh, wait.
They need to be careful, okay?

SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
We just gotta let...
You know, because Lloyd can't...
Lloyd Evans can't distinguish oridentify when somebody's doing
something weird with theirrings.
We're just teaching Lloyd.
Schooling him.
Going to ring school.
Theocratic ring school.
That's what they do.
Theocratic ring school.

(15:50):
You know, how do you...
You try and flash that ring.
Flash it.
I got to do it on my pinky.

SPEAKER_00 (15:58):
You know, I used to...
When I gave talks, I would wearthis.

SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
To be like a big wig.
Like a big shot, huh?

SPEAKER_00 (16:07):
I just liked it.
And I would gesture a lot withthis hand.

SPEAKER_02 (16:11):
yeah it makes you feel important

SPEAKER_00 (16:15):
and i would hold a bible with my left hand and you
know i would point like that andi would gesture with this hand
so they saw the ring

SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (16:24):
so it

SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
wasn't necessarily masonic but it gave you maybe an
important masonic vibe whetheryou knew it or not

SPEAKER_00 (16:34):
i guess i guess as well from what i saw on the
other broadcast

SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
Or, oh, oh, as a Jehovah's Witness, was John
Gotti one of your heroes?

SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
I wouldn't attribute it to, I never have attributed
it to being a witness, but I,and you, man, and that's my
kids.
I love, like, gangster movies.

SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
God, Bobby.

SPEAKER_00 (17:07):
Yeah.
Dealer

SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
Andrew Garcia.
I

SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
got into Sopranos and I like Goodfellas and like
all those movies, Godfather,yeah.
Now why would that be?
That's why I liked it, because Iwas a witness.

SPEAKER_02 (17:25):
Oh yeah, well it's, it's Gerloche, brothers.
Gerloche.
Garrett Loesch, I have seen forJohn Gotti, like you wouldn't
believe, because of GarrettLoesch.
That man, delicious.

(17:45):
He's delicious.
He's gangster delicious, PapaGarrett.

SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
Wow.
I wouldn't associate deliciouswith Loesch, but

SPEAKER_02 (17:56):
okay.
Oh, in the head, come on.
Oh, you're a man.
The girl's not girls.
What am I saying?
Gary

SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
Lush.

SPEAKER_00 (18:03):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
You know, Gary Lush.
Wow.
They kept us girls going.
Did you ever go to Bethel orhave aspirations?

SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
I never wanted to go to work.
So I never went to the one inthe United States.
In the mid-70s, we went to myfamily, we went to Toronto.
And we moved into the PetBranch.

SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
Yeah.
Did you do one of the Bethel bustours?

SPEAKER_00 (18:37):
It was a walking tour.

SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Oh, how did you get there?
Did you drive?

SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
Yeah, we drove and then it was a walking tour.

SPEAKER_02 (18:45):
Oh, okay.
My Uncle Sidney Juergens doesthe Juergens Bethel bus tours
where you go on a bus and youall go together.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (18:55):
Yeah, he does that.
That's our family.

SPEAKER_02 (18:59):
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (18:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
God, that's ridiculous.
So did you pioneer?

SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
Not regular pioneer, but I would exhilarate here and
there.

SPEAKER_02 (19:08):
Yeah, yeah, I think everybody's been forced into
that.
I

SPEAKER_00 (19:11):
don't want to devote that much time to it because I
had other pursuits.

SPEAKER_02 (19:16):
I know exhilarate pioneering was what, like 60
hours?

SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
that was

SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
60 hours.

SPEAKER_02 (19:23):
That was a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
Yeah, that was a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (19:25):
Now it's like...

SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
30.

SPEAKER_02 (19:28):
Yeah, now being 60 would be like a special pioneer.

SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
Yeah, it's like 50, I think, for auxiliary, I think.

SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
I don't know.
Used to be something.
I

SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
think it's 30.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
So did you raise your kids' witnesses then, too?

SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Did they leave before you, or how did that
work?

SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
Our oldest, too.
And then the younger two, theywere still like active witnesses
when we were, like the four ofus were together.

SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
And now they're all out?

SPEAKER_00 (20:11):
Yeah, we all left.

SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Good.
So it's just your parents.
So old.

SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
I have

SPEAKER_02 (20:19):
a

SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
brother and his family.

SPEAKER_02 (20:23):
Oh, man.
They're still in.

SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
Yeah, he's an elder also.

SPEAKER_02 (20:28):
A lot of times it's just that status.
Like I, you know, I know likewith my uncle Jeremy, I'm going
to call him out.
Uncle Jeremy West.
He is the most worldly elder onthe face of the planet.
The worldly, worldly.

(20:48):
And he's only an elder becausehe could never be that
self-important anywhere else.
You know what I'm saying?
Like he would, Nobody else wouldever care or think anything
about him like that other thanthe Jehovah's Witnesses, where
you can be a big shot.

SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Man, that's the video I made yesterday talking
about narcissists.
But yeah, that's what I wassaying.
Most of these elders, it goes totheir head, but as soon as they
walk out of that Kingdom Halldoor, they're just some regular
nobody.

SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
Yeah, they're just a janitor where they're like not
even looked at anymore andnobody.
Oh, how many times?
Oh, my God.
With my stepdad, Arden Hansen.
You know, I'm Arden Hansen.
I'm a Jehovah's Witness janitor.
Okay, that's him.
Oh, hi, I'm John Arden Hansen.

(21:49):
Nice to meet you.
So that's him.
But at the Kingdom Hall, youdidn't.
It'd be like, you know.
You don't mess with ArdenHansen.
He'll drag you into the back orhe'll go and tell the governing
body.
He'll go tell somebody so youwouldn't ever think of
back-talking to him.
But then seeing him as a janitorgoing with, and then he'd try

(22:19):
and elder people that he wasworking for.
And he'd be so disgruntling, youknow, like, you know, well, you
know, and he'd be saying, andI'd be like, stop trying to
elder them, dad.
You know, those are worldlypeople and they don't, they

(22:40):
don't care.
You're, you know, cause he'd belike, well, I'm an elder.
So, you know, and they're like,I'm like, they don't care.
you know what does that mean youknow and so that's like I think
that's why a lot of witnessesstick to themselves because that
really brings a guy down a fewpegs when he can't elder

(23:03):
somebody at work

SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
oh yeah and I would be quick to let them know like
yeah I've had jobs where I'veworked with and under elders and
sometimes i would have to remindthem gently like we aren't at
the kingdom hall yeah you aren'tan elder right now they don't
like that but i would do it

SPEAKER_02 (23:27):
yeah you're just uh you're just a stooge here at
work oh there was this one haveyou have you worked with a lot
of jehovah's witnessesthroughout the years or did you
still do

SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
i don't anymore but

SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
okay i gotta fly flying around here it's bugging
me

SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
yeah I worked with, you know what, that's one of the
times that I really saw thehypocrisy when I was working
with an elder.
Oh, yeah.
I'll tell you some shit he woulddo.
Like, okay, he's an elder,right?

SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
We had a job where sometimes we would get like an
on-call job and we had to gorush and do it.
So sales, a ministry schoolnight, and, you know, I needed
to be finished at a certaintime.
He would send me to do, like,rush jobs.
I would either be late to themeeting or I would miss the

(24:23):
meeting.
He would be one of the elderscounseling me about meeting
attendance.
Like, that would piss me off.
They're

SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
always, yeah.
It's like I wouldn't be in thatsituation if it weren't for you.

SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
Yeah.
And he would be one of the onescounseling me.
And that woke me up to it.
And then just seeing him and howhe dealt with his family and
everything.

SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
It's like they're Nazis.
And they like to torture people.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (24:59):
yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
By being a hypocrite at them on purpose.

UNKNOWN (25:05):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (25:05):
And then also twisting their words.
They love to twist words, twisttheir own words.
Twist the words of the faithfulslave.
Like, you're twisting the wordsof the faithful slave.
You're twisting my words.
How many times have you heardthat?
You're twisting my words.
Are you trying to twist thewords of the elders?

(25:27):
Are you twisting the words ofJehovah?
All those little cult...
things, but remember beingscripturally crucified or
scripturally indicted.
Are you trying to scripturallyindict me?
You're scripturally indictingme.
Yes.
Oh, wait.

(25:47):
God, I flashed my ring.
You've been scripturallyindicted.

SPEAKER_00 (25:54):
This is my her ring.
Yes.
Apparently, it's your littlering.

UNKNOWN (26:02):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
You're the number one herd at this point.
You're the honorary herd.
I'm honorary.

SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
You know what?
You know what I'm proclaiming?
I'm the true black herd.

SPEAKER_02 (26:16):
Yeah, yeah, you are.
Yeah, what a real.
Oh, hey, hey, do you think thatwomen's brains are 10% smaller?
Well, I think women's brains are10% smaller, but does that mean
we're not as smart as men orsmarter?
I

SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
don't think they're smaller.

SPEAKER_02 (26:33):
Well, I think it's because our heads are smaller,
you

SPEAKER_00 (26:36):
know what I mean?
I've never heard of it.
And one of my followers sent me,and I was pissed.

SPEAKER_02 (26:47):
Well, yeah, he says, like, women's brains are 10%
smaller, so that means we'reless intelligent.
But he's going based upon size.
You know what I mean?
Size doesn't matter.
Like, only to Samuel Heard doessize matter.
You know, leave it to him.
We're like, oh, your head'ssmaller than mine, so that means

(27:09):
you're stupider.
You know, uh-huh.
Well, something else of yours issmaller than somebody else's,
and that means you're worse.
Small-minded, little small.
You

SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
know, that pissed me off because, yeah, I guess it's
not scientifically true.
It's mean-spirited, and it justshowed how the organization
thought.

SPEAKER_03 (27:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
I got hit when I heard that.
I was about to ask you, becauseyou were talking about the
government body, and you saidfaithful slave, and it made me
think of something.
Do you think they're thefaithful slave?

SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
At this point, yes.
But they're my faithful slave.
I made them my slave.
Like, you...
It depends on how you look atit.
It's like, oh, no, boys, you'remy slaves.
You're my slaves.
You're my slaves.

(28:19):
And I enjoy picking on them.
I enjoy picking on them.
Because it was like, oh, God, Ihad a thing of panic where I was
like, what if they went away?
You know, like what if all of asudden the website was gone
tomorrow?
There was something, I forgetwhat it was of where I was like,

(28:43):
well, I realized it was over.
Like there was, it was like Igot closure and I knew it was
over.
Like it was over for me.
Oh, I know what it was.
My channels and stuff got takendown.
All of it was gone.
Like my Patreon, my YouTube, itwas all for a moment, all gone.

SPEAKER_03 (29:01):
And

SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
so I realized, I thought, of how my channels were
gone, of how it would feel wherethe organization was gone.
And I realized how sad anddisappointed I would be if it
went away forever.
That there is a form ofentertainment.

(29:29):
Like, you know, of like...
I don't know how to describe it.
Of, like, that I enjoy pickingon.

SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
I was about to say, you wouldn't have anyone to pick
on.

SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
Yeah.
I wouldn't have anything to do.
Or, like, what else would I do?
You know, like, even with them.
It's like, oh, God, if youstopped being a witness, who
would I pick on?
What would I do?
Where would I go?
You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 (29:57):
Yeah, I understand.

UNKNOWN (29:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (29:58):
And so, like, I need them as much as they need us and
we need them.
And it's okay.
Like, whose carts would I crash?
Whose guys' faces would I notmake look stupid?
You know, like, I like makingthem look stupid.
I actually enjoy it.
You know, and then I comewalking up and the guy's got a

(30:19):
big dumb grin on his face.
And I'm like, I'm demonizedsmurf girl.
What are you doing?
You stupid.
Like, this is what it looks likefrom their vantage point of me.
Like, I don't have my, my phonesare there, but it's like, so,
you know, what do you do?
You know, you're stupid.

(30:40):
And I hate the car.

SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
That's why I was scared of you when I first found
you.
Cause it was like, demonizedSmurf girl.
I approached you with caution.

SPEAKER_02 (30:51):
What'd you think I was gonna do?
Be a jerk?

SPEAKER_00 (30:55):
Well, I wasn't sure.
Well, you gotta remember,though, I was just, like, I was
just starting to talk toex-Java's witnesses.
I had this whole, like, stigma.
And, like, I just told you why.
Like, you all used to pick on meso much.
when I ran that Instagramaccount.

(31:17):
That's true.
I see you, you know, like Smurfgirl, Smurf tower, demonized
Smurf girl.
And I'm like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
100% demonized.

SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I'm a

SPEAKER_02 (31:31):
demonized apostate.
I like being demonized.

SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
I like your posts.
And so I wanted to like, pickyour brain and ask you things.
But the more I talk to you, themore I talk to others.
And I'm like, you know what?
These are normal people.
They made us scared of you all.

SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
Yeah, we're like good people, you know?
We like to have a good time.
So did you have anybody crashyour kingdom hall while you were
still one?

SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (32:06):
Oh, you didn't experience it?

SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
No, we would have kicked their asses.
I ran a tight chip.

SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
We ran into guys like you, though.
I swear to God, I've seen youget all upset.
I know what you look like.

SPEAKER_00 (32:24):
I'm from the old school attendance.
The attendants now are fluffy.
I'm from attendance where theywent hands-on.
Those are my heroes.
Yeah, those are my heroes.

SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
I love it because the attendants now, they said
build a human shield and youmove with them.
I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
Let's talk over here.
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
I hate

SPEAKER_02 (32:47):
it.
Oh, give us some tips.
So what are we actually allowedto do?
Like, if you can't touch us, howlong does it take for them to
actually, like, call the cops?

SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
If someone is being...
like very disrespectful whilestopping a meeting.
The auditorium attendant is theone that's supposed to stop the
meeting.
And he instructs one of theother two attendants to call the
police.
And it's like you, if it becomesphysical, we can defend

(33:27):
ourselves, but we couldn'tinitiate.

SPEAKER_02 (33:30):
Yeah, they wouldn't done me.
I go like this.
Poor Uncle Tony, what he musthave thought.
You know?

(33:51):
So, okay, did you see me?
There was so much that youdidn't see.
Like all the cart crashing andall.
Oh, my God.
I

SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
didn't look at that stuff.
Like, And I've been talkingabout this with some other
ex-witnesses, but I did not seekapostates out.
I didn't look at the material,like, you know, when I was all
in.
I just didn't.
And that's how I know the oneswho pop up on our shit are,
like, the ones that are, like,on their way out.

(34:23):
The ones who are asleep duringmeetings.
The ones who only go tomemorials.

SPEAKER_02 (34:27):
Oh,

SPEAKER_00 (34:27):
yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:29):
Oh, could you tell if somebody was secretly
recording you?
Or did you see it?
Or were we too good for

SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
you to know?
Remember the guy I was tellingyou about earlier, who they
always told me to keep an eyeon.
But I would see him.
And as soon as his hand wentlike that, I would leave my seat
and just go stand right behindhim.
I don't care where he wassitting in the auditorium, I
would stand by him and make himnervous as shit.

(34:59):
It has been great, especiallywhat I told you he was like what
I was watching him for.
And, you know, no way he's goingto film like a kid if I'm there.

SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
Yeah, no, we wouldn't bother filming a kid.

SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
Yeah, but I'm saying for him, for his particular
thing.

SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Oh, yeah, because he was a weirdo.

SPEAKER_00 (35:18):
Yeah, but as far as...

SPEAKER_02 (35:19):
Yeah, tell people about

SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
that.
I've never been in acongregation where apostates
came when I was an adult.
When I was in Chicago, a boy inChicago, and someone came in off
the street, and this is whenthey could go hands-on.
And it was this guy came, sat onthe platform and said he wanted
the meeting to stop.
Three huge African-Americanbrothers picked him up off the

(35:42):
stage and dropped him on thesidewalk.
And he never came back in.
Same thing at the assembly hall.
I would see apostates or peopleoff the street come in into the
assembly hall on the south sideof Chicago.

SPEAKER_03 (35:53):
This

SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
was back when I was a boy.
They had attendance and thenthey had security.
security were the ones walkingaround with the earpiece in
their ear and they had these bigtall walkie-talkies.
So security would come, pickthem up by the elbows,
physically lift them up andtheir feet are dangling and
carry them out, drop them on thesidewalk and come back in.
And as a boy, I would be like,that's what I want to do when I

(36:17):
grow up.
And as soon as I turned 18, atthis huge meeting at the
district assembly, the Wednesdaybefore the assembly started, and
they were like, we can'tphysically touch people anymore.
And I was like, dang, this iswhy I wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_02 (36:32):
Now, see, without apostates, you wouldn't be able
to do that.
You know?
Okay, because you know what Icall it?
It's called a fearon.
A fearon, you see where I put afear-induced heart on?
Yeah.
Those brothers, okay, how manytimes when a woman gets all

(36:53):
irate, I'm doing my neck.
You know, you get all that rate.
You know, what are you doing?
You know, and I'm in there like,you know, just calm down.
You know, they know me asVanessa.
But it's like, Rose Bundy, comeon, come on.
You know, Vanessa, please,Vanessa.

(37:15):
You know, they calm down.
You've heard them say it.

SPEAKER_00 (37:18):
Yeah, I heard it on the video, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
Yeah, it's like, but Vanessa, Vanessa, please don't.
And then they stand there, andthey're like, you know, and they
put their hands in front of her.
I'm like, what am I giving you afear on right now?
Because they do.
It's like, I'm a bodyguard, andI'm going to protect from
Vanessa coming in, you know,because I'm like, you know.
The last time, yeah, oh, man, Iwas screaming.

SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
I would admit, you would be weird.
I've only, like, one...
a few years ago at the regionalconvention, it was a guy we had
to watch.
Because he was disfellowshipped.
And he told the elders inwhatever congregation he got
disfellowshipped from, anychance I get, I'm watching the
stage at regional convention.
And so we had to physicallyfollow him around.

(38:06):
But it was like, I don't knowwhat I would have done with a
woman.
I've only encountered the men ofour states.
You would have threw me for aloop.

SPEAKER_02 (38:17):
Oh, yeah.
Well, and it's just like, youknow, it's like then you'd know
me.
I'd come walking in there,people would know.
And it's like, oh, no, here shecomes.
Like, there's no way of, like,mistaking me walking in.
That's demonized Smurf girl,like, walking in the middle

(38:37):
aisle of the...
So anyway, you were...

SPEAKER_00 (38:41):
Check a bag for that damn Smurf.

SPEAKER_03 (38:46):
And

SPEAKER_02 (38:46):
I got potions.
I'm like, shh.
Demons.
I'm like, demon, there you go,demon.
You know what, I'm pagan.
By the way, I'm pagan.
I'm pagan, because I'm not a

SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
witness.

SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Anybody, what?

SPEAKER_00 (39:06):
What does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
To be pagan?

SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:10):
Not being a witness.
Anybody who's not a witness is apagan.
It don't matter, right?
According to them.

SPEAKER_00 (39:16):
You're

SPEAKER_02 (39:17):
pagan.
You're pagan.

SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
Pagan.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:23):
You're pagan when you're not a witness, so I'm
just pagan.
It's okay when you get to...
I've never beendisfellowshipped, but if you get
disfellowshipped...
And then you leave theorganization.
I used to have people come andask me, so what religion are you
now?
Like, did you become a differentreligion?

(39:45):
Like, you're not a witness.
So, like, what are you?
And I'm like, yeah, I'm justpagan.
You know, because it's likeyou're worldly.
I'm just worldly.
I guess I'm just pagan.
I don't know.
I like saying the word pagan.
Like, when people ask me, I'mpagan.
Pagan, pagan.

SPEAKER_00 (40:02):
Yeah, I get asked that a lot.
But I'm going to do it likeCurtis.

SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
oh yes boom we got it got it going on

SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
what are you

SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
i know oh yeah it's a club you want to go out for
pizza late no i don't that'sgross isn't it no i was like
trying to i can't even i can'teven be cool i don't even know
what i'm doing See what happenswhen you start flashing

(40:36):
governing body gang signs?
It starts to make you weird.
So you were saying earlier aboutthat guy that was on the list
though, and that you had to goextra measures to watch this guy
that was on the list that wassecretly recording at the
meeting, but he wasn't recordingfor an apostate reason.

(40:56):
He was recording for a weirdoreason and he was recording
kids.
So the difference between tellthe, tell everybody the
difference between that.

SPEAKER_00 (41:09):
Right.
of how an

SPEAKER_02 (41:11):
apostate is handled or how a person on the list is
handled recording.

SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
Like I was telling you earlier, that was what kind
of really opened my eyes to thecorruption and how crooked it
is.
Because the elders had to tellme certainly the people that I
needed to watch and why.
And so they told me him and theytold me why.

(41:37):
And I had to watch him whoeverthe three attendants were, that
particular meeting, if he wentto the restroom, we had to watch
him, especially if a minor wentto the restroom.
We had to watch him.
He would sometimes hold hisphone up and record, and some of
the others had seen himrecording kids sometimes.

(41:59):
So the more kids, and it's kidsin our congregation, and the
more they tell me, the morepissed I'm getting, and I'm
like, why can't we just tell himnot to come in?
Like, why?
And they're like, no, it's apublic meeting.
And, you know, we can't reallytell him to stop coming to a

(42:19):
meeting.
So after they told me that, Iwasn't really happy with it.
About two months later, we hadthis huge attendance meeting,
like every congregation in theKingdom Hall, the branch, like,
revamped.
the attendance instructions.
So we go to this two hour longmeeting at the Kingdom Hall one
Saturday.
And part of the instruction isif someone is disruptive, if

(42:43):
someone keeps stopping themeeting, if someone becomes
violent with someone in thecongregation, if someone
brandishes a weapon, we can havethe police call and we give the
police a certain line, thisverbiage, which in effect
trespasses them from the kingdomhall.
When the police got there, wewould tell them their implied

(43:06):
invitation has been revoked.
And the police would write atrespass.
So after this big attendancemeeting, I go straight to my
elders.
And I'm like, you hear that partin the attendance meeting from
the branch.
They say we can trespass on, sowhy can't we trespass so-and-so?
And it was the same song anddance.

(43:26):
That's different.
And then that's when like,something clicked up in my mind
and i was like something isn'tright

SPEAKER_03 (43:33):
and yeah

SPEAKER_00 (43:34):
yeah i'm like maybe the i've been hearing is really
true like that's what youstarted to think

SPEAKER_02 (43:44):
yeah it's true it is true you're right

SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
and sadly i found out yeah it's very true

SPEAKER_02 (43:52):
and what's scary is that they would allow that what
he was being you know when whenhe's recording holding the
songbook like that do you knowwhat he was doing you know what
that's a term for it he wasbeing a penis hand cecil the
back of the songbook guy haveyou seen the back of the
songbook guy

SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
with

SPEAKER_02 (44:13):
the penis hand

SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
no

SPEAKER_02 (44:15):
oh you don't know about penis hand cecil the back
of the songbook guy

SPEAKER_00 (44:22):
oh it's a bunch of me with the mouse open i

SPEAKER_02 (44:24):
don't I'm going to have to show you Penis Hand
Cecil.
The back of the songbook guy andhe's got a penis for a wrist.
And he's holding the songbooklike this.
And he's gawking like this.
He's gawking like this at a kid.
You actually had a guy holdingthe songbook and holding the

(44:46):
camera like this?
He was being Penis Hand Cecil,the back of the songbook guy.
Yeah, I'll send it to you.

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Yeah, you got to send me

SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
that.
Like, seriously, of what Mitchis talking about, the penis
hand, Cecil, back of the son.
So he was like this, recording akid, being all Michael Jackson
at somebody?

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Mm-hmm.
A couple of times.
Where

SPEAKER_02 (45:15):
is this guy?
Where is this guy?
Do you know where he is?

SPEAKER_00 (45:20):
Yeah, he's where I live now.

SPEAKER_02 (45:23):
Well, we need to go get him.
And I want to go catch him.
No, I want to catch him.
Is he still doing it?
Well, he would be.
When's the last time you saw himdo it?

SPEAKER_00 (45:34):
It's been a while because he left our particular
congregation and went to anotherone.
But I saw him holding his phoneup once.
One time when he seen me get upbecause, like I said, he knew I
didn't like him becausesomething happened with us
before I even found all thisout.
So I already didn't like him.
And then I saw him.

(45:55):
I jumped up and he turned itoff.
The second time, he didn't knowI was behind him.
I was in the foyer and it waslike a bunch of glass you could
see into the auditorium.
So I'm standing behind him.
He's in the last row and I'mstanding there watching him.
And he held it up, but he wastrying to fuck with the
auditorium attendant.

(46:18):
The auditorium attendant said,he's just effing with you.
but his screen is literally off.
The screen was black, but he wasmessing with the auditorium
attendant.
Now, when I was auditoriumattendant, he didn't mess with
me.
He knew I wanted to kick

SPEAKER_02 (46:36):
his ass.
Well, I want to find this guy,this Penis Hand Cecil, number
two, because there's a real guynamed Penis Hand Cecil here in
Tucson.
I got him on tape.
The original Back in theSongbook guy.
We got a second Back in theSongbook guy, part two, Cecil
Jr.
Like, seriously, I want to go.

(46:57):
So he's what, up in Washington?
I'm going to hunt that guy.
No, seriously, he's going to.
Dude, you watching me?
You watching?
You watching?
I'm going to get my crew, myarmy.
I got an army, a smurf army.
Smurf, I'm the leader of theSmurf cult.
I'm going to come get you, andI'm going to record you.

(47:19):
I'm going to take care of you.
What?

SPEAKER_00 (47:23):
I said Smurfs in Washington.

SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
Yeah.
It's like, you know, bad boys,bad boy, you know, we're going
to go and get it.
You know, don't catch me ridingdirty.
We're going to go find him.
I mean, seriously.
No, we need to find him.
Remember what he looks like?

(47:47):
I

SPEAKER_00 (47:49):
haven't been by a kingdom all in so long.

SPEAKER_02 (47:51):
Yeah?
Where you get all triggered?
You get all triggered?
No, if they saw me and you walkin, it'd be just like, you know,
I got my, you know, I got mybodyguard.
Wait, are you Bert or Ernie?
You be Ernie.

(48:12):
I'm Bert.
No, wait, you're Bert.
I'll be Ernie.

SPEAKER_00 (48:15):
You're definitely Bert.

SPEAKER_02 (48:16):
Bert and Ernie come walking in.
Ernie

SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
is the nice, sweet one.

SPEAKER_02 (48:23):
That'll be me.
Oh, no, then you be Ernie.
Yeah, you be Ernie.
I'm Bert.

SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
Yeah, you're Bert.
When you put that hat on.

SPEAKER_02 (48:35):
Yeah, no kidding.
No, I mean, seriously.
Where did you get

SPEAKER_00 (48:39):
that hat from?

SPEAKER_02 (48:40):
I want to get that guy.
No, I want to get that guy.
I mean, seriously, that's nojoke.
You brothers of whatevercongregation that you were in
that he's talking about, if Icatch you, that'll be the last
thing you do.
If I have to get it on tape.

(49:01):
I'm not joking.
Go ask all the brothers here inTucson how it feels to get that
stupidity on tape.
and everywhere else you know ifi caught that if i if i have a i

(49:24):
mean even the sisters get allweird around me you know it's
like if there's a wooden spoonaround You know, they don't have
a wooden spoon.
You know, it's like, what areyou going to...
I remember back in the day,they'd be like, what are you...
You know, I need to disciplinemy child.
Are you going to get all upset?
And it's like, yeah.
You know, sorry.

(49:44):
You know, you don't need to...
And I would carry like, youknow, those little...
I worked at like...
It was TGA.
Oh, no, I worked at IHOPbriefly.
And you know how IHOP has thelittle crayons and stuff?
I would take them from, fromIHOP.
Even when I ate there, I wouldtake like a placemat and like,

(50:06):
or just the crayons and I'd takethem and I'd bring them to the
meeting.
I got fired for doing thatactually.
And I'm like, you can't stealall the crayons.
I'm like, I'm sorry.
But to bring them to the kids atthe meeting, you know, it's
like, just give them a fewcrayons, four crayons or a

(50:26):
wooden spoon.
What's the big deal?
You know?

SPEAKER_00 (50:30):
Why would you get a kid a wooden spoon?

SPEAKER_02 (50:33):
Well, because they're sadistic.
I think my mom started the wholewooden spooning.
Because demonized smart girlneeded a wooden spoon, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 (50:45):
You know?
I got the truth book.

SPEAKER_02 (50:49):
Oh, you got hit with the truth book?

SPEAKER_00 (50:52):
The truth book.

SPEAKER_02 (50:54):
You what?

SPEAKER_00 (50:55):
When I was acting bad at the kingdom house, that's
what I would get a swipe with,the truth book.

SPEAKER_02 (51:01):
Oh, God.
Well, that's a way to hit youwith the truth.
Smack you upside the head withthe truth.

SPEAKER_00 (51:10):
Walk with a limp.

SPEAKER_02 (51:14):
I got hit with the truth.
No, I walk with a limp.

UNKNOWN (51:17):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (51:20):
We're shooting some lyrics there, Mitch.
Wow.
i want

SPEAKER_00 (51:29):
to

SPEAKER_02 (51:37):
circle

SPEAKER_00 (51:41):
back to something

SPEAKER_02 (51:43):
okay what

SPEAKER_00 (51:44):
because there may be people like me who are still in
but like i just want you tounderstand like when i was a
teenager Like, I was all in,like, mentally.
I was all into the organization.
So, like, I truly wanted to,like, progress.

(52:04):
So, like, I didn't feel forcedto get baptized because as soon
as I was baptized, I got, like,a lot of privileges.
And I'm, like, 17, and I'm,like, the literature servant.
So it's, like, this is what Iwanted to do.
Like, this is how I was raised,to just go all in.

SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:26):
yeah so and like i said i talked to some weekly who
who said they felt forced youknow i met talked to someone
they got baptized like when theywere 11 and i'm like oh my
goodness you don't know anythingyou know what i mean

SPEAKER_03 (52:42):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (52:42):
but yeah i knew what i was doing nobody that's what i
always liked about my parentsthey didn't force us even though
my father wasn't the elder theynever forced us or made us feel
like we just had to getbaptized.
And the three of us, my twosiblings, like the three of us
got baptized at different years.

(53:05):
My sister, she was nine.
I was 16 and I think my brotherwas 15, I think.

SPEAKER_03 (53:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (53:14):
God.
So you have, what, two siblingsor one?

SPEAKER_00 (53:18):
Yeah, I have a sister and a brother.
My older sister, she passed awaylast September from cancer.

SPEAKER_02 (53:23):
I'm sorry.
I think you told me that.
It's like we've been sharing somuch information with each other
sometimes it's hard to remember.

SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
Yeah.
And it's so

SPEAKER_02 (53:34):
traumatizing too.
There's so much tragicinformation.

SPEAKER_00 (53:38):
You

SPEAKER_02 (53:40):
know what I mean?
Like trauma.
God.

SPEAKER_00 (53:43):
And

SPEAKER_02 (53:46):
she passed away a witness?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:50):
She was a I loved it because she always believed in
me no matter how many times Ifailed.
You know, because like I toldyou, I got this fellowship
twice.
I was approved two or threetimes.
But it's like she never stoppedbelieving in me.
And she always like wouldn't letme get too down on myself.
And like even when I gave talks,public talks or any part on the

(54:14):
meeting, she would watch on Zoomand text me when I was done.
So it was amazing.
like not having her affected metoo.
But I also felt, and I mentionedthis in one of my videos, like I
was a PIMO, I knew I was tiredof being a witness in May of
2023.
Like that was the lastconvention I ever went to, May

(54:36):
of 2023.
But I pretty much stayed aroundlike for my immediate family and
then for my family, like myparents and brother and sister.
And then she passed away inSeptember.
And I was going through a wholebunch of shit last year.
And like by December, I was justlike, I'm done with everything.

SPEAKER_02 (54:59):
Yeah, that's good.
You just got it over with.
But it has to be awful.
The circumstances that itcouldn't have been just all of
you just like, yeah, you know,we all woke up and we're all
leaving together.
It hardly ever ends up that way.

SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
that's why the way of my immediate family, we, you
know, we all left and mydaughter, she's a lot happier
because she can be herself now.

SPEAKER_02 (55:27):
Yeah.
Good.
Yeah.
For the kids, you know, it'sworth it for the kids, you know,
that the kids are out at leastnow their lives, they can start
and do, you know, what theywant.

SPEAKER_00 (55:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (55:44):
You know, So I'm sure they're deciding what they
want to do or do they alreadyknow?

SPEAKER_00 (55:50):
Yeah, well, our son, he's already had a career, like
going on four years now.
Daughter just graduated andshe's going to actually, she's
going to go to college and majorin digital forensics.

SPEAKER_02 (56:10):
Oh, wow.
We need that.
We do.
We do.
Like in law enforcement, any XJdubs in law enforcement, no
matter what, crime sceneinvestigators, you know, PIs.
detectives, beat cops, that it'slike, no, no, wait, this is an

(56:34):
apostate.
To have a bunch of XJW beat copswhere it's like when they call
the trespass and it's like, oh,no, no, no, they ain't
trespassing.
Because we can't trespass whenwe are a baptized Jehovah's
Witness and they're activelyseeking to try and get us to

(56:55):
come back.
it's like when it's like no yougot all over the internet that
you're trying to get me to comeback of which i would love to if
you weren't a turd you know ifthey weren't turds Because I
said that I would love to comeback if you weren't a jackass
and a turd.
I would come back in aheartbeat.

(57:16):
But no, you're stupid.
So, you know, I'm just checkingto see if you're still, you
know, a tard.
You know, oh, there's still atard.
Never mind.
Oh, wait, you're still a tard.
So, you know.
You know, I can't come back yet.
And sorry, just wanted to know.

(57:38):
And you can't trespass somebodythat's baptized.
You know what I'm saying?
Because how less or morebaptized are they than you or
me?
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (57:51):
Say it again.

SPEAKER_02 (57:53):
How much more baptized are they than you or
me?
They're not more baptized thanwe are.
We're all equally baptized.

SPEAKER_00 (58:06):
You know,

SPEAKER_02 (58:08):
like we're baptized members.
And they're trying to hold us tothat baptized membership.
And it's like you're holding meto the baptized membership.
And so that means, you know,like you're still holding me to
the rules of the baptizedmembership.
So that must mean I still got amembership since you're holding
me to the membership rules ofwhich then I should be allowed

(58:30):
to be in there because you'reholding me to the stupid
membership rules, which meansI'm a member.
So shut up and sit down justbecause you don't like me
doesn't mean nothing.
you know like you can't holdsomebody to membership rules and
then not let them be in as amember

SPEAKER_00 (58:50):
right i don't know it's stupid they think they can
control anyone

SPEAKER_02 (58:58):
yeah no kidding

SPEAKER_00 (59:00):
that's why i dislike them so much

SPEAKER_02 (59:02):
yeah so what does this record just for an i can't
believe we've been talking foran hour i'm blind as a bath i
don't know if i came off weirdbut I'm going to wrap it up
because I can see it's been anhour.
I hope people liked it.

SPEAKER_00 (59:17):
That's all the questions you have?

SPEAKER_02 (59:19):
No, I got more, but we can do it next time.
Ask me one more.
Oh, God, one more.
Well, I planned it perfectlyout.

SPEAKER_00 (59:33):
We want to stop there and have a second.
Well, what are

SPEAKER_02 (59:35):
your plans for your future apostasy?

SPEAKER_00 (59:40):
for my future apostasy.

SPEAKER_02 (59:42):
Do you have any goals of Kingdom Hall crashing
or going to the carts?
You haven't done that yet,right?

SPEAKER_00 (59:49):
No, I haven't planned on doing that.
You know what?
In my head, this is how I viewit.
I shunned them when I left.
I changed my address.
I changed my phone number.
I changed my email address.
It's like I just don't want tosee them.

(01:00:10):
at all like it brings up toomany bad memories and like close
to a kingdom home like i justhate it so i have not thought
about like you know crashing itor going talking to anyone okay

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:28):
so you'd rather you're the at the podcast moment
because there is there's likethe podcast moment of the
progression of wanting tointerview because it is a
progression you start and thensomething is going to happen
where you be like you know whati need to see that guy again and

(01:00:53):
i just need to say somethingbecause you it's like when you
talk it out then it's like noyou know what i want to say
something to that guy or iwanted this or i wanted that and
there maybe maybe not

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:05):
i don't know i'm not like that when i so like in any
part of my life when i'm donewith someone like i'm just done
i drop them i don't talk to themi don't think about them and
that's how i am about like thatreligion that is

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:23):
let's go for one more smurf romp just one more
smurf romp me and you

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:32):
you know my thoughts on the smurfs

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:35):
of like you know like a promo Me and Mitch, we go
for one more go-round.
One last

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:43):
go-round.
I would be the one arrested.
You're

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:49):
so

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:49):
nice, Vanessa.
And then they would, like, pinme to the car and taste

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:54):
me.
Oh, I was screaming.
Thousands of people, when I wasat the assembly this last time,
I was screaming.
i was like i was screaming i waslike i told that i told the guy
on the stage and it feels goodlike you know it feels good to
do that but i was just like youknow you shut up just shut up

(01:02:15):
and screamed in front ofthousands of people you

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:17):
went on a stage

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:19):
yeah i should i shouted at the guy on the stage
and he actually shut up He waslike, who?
Because he was ranting andraving about pornography.
And the brothers were all comingat me.
And it was at this lastassembly.
And I was just like, no.
I couldn't take it no more.
And I was just like, you shutup.

(01:02:40):
Shut up.
Shut up.
I can't take it.
And then I'm like, some legendsare told.
Some turned to dust, some turnedto gold, but you'll remember me
for centuries.
And then I was thinking, shutthe fuck up.
Shut the, you shut the fuck up.
And I just ran out of there.
Well, I marched out of there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:00):
And

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:02):
that felt good.
I can't wait to do it again.
Cause, cause I didn't get it ontape, but it was on the live
feed and it was in front of thewhole district convention in
Tucson on July 4th.
So it was an independence day.

UNKNOWN (01:03:16):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:19):
It was insane.
I was hoping it would make thenews or something.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:23):
I remember you filmed and posted it, like you
being there.
But yeah, I didn't know youactually went batshit on them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:34):
Oh, yeah.
It was two days of festivities.
I made them uncomfortable fortwo whole days.
Like all weekend.
I'm sure they were wondering ifI was going to show up on
Saturday.
I didn't.
It was for Friday and Sunday.
I

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:48):
kept watching the one video.
You just made me laugh becauseyou're approaching the two
attendants at the door and thelook on their face.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:58):
I was just like, but calm down.
It's like, yeah, you know,

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:07):
your little blue

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:08):
eyes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:09):
some may know you around

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:10):
there oh do you mean the recording of ruben no

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:14):
no no i don't know it was two attendants at the
door you were approaching buti'm saying i would imagine they
know you around the area youlive like to be on the lookout
for you

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:26):
oh yeah they they know me for years like they've
known me all here since 1986.
like this is 86.
and they know me and some ofthem let it slide because they
know just let me go if you don'tlet me go it's gonna end up bad
i'm gonna end up loud it's gonnabe embarrassing just let it go

(01:04:49):
and let her walk around and shutup and they don't they should
know better

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:55):
so you you went alone could you could you sense
like some attendants were liketailing you

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:04):
At first, everyone knew.
I tweeted it out and I said, I'mrecording the crime scene
because I needed to record theassembly of where I was
assaulted.
I had to record the actual crimescene, which I did.
And I'm like, I need to recordthe crime scene, show some
respect.

(01:05:25):
And everyone who wasn't relatedto me showed me respect.
Showed me respect.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:33):
It

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:34):
was my offenders that did not show me respect.
It was my relative and my formerbest man at my wedding did not
show me respect.
And Scott Stark and Ron Souther,you didn't show me respect.

(01:05:54):
Everyone else showed me respect.
You two turd buckets should knowto show me respect.
You know what I mean?
Like, I've known them forever.
You know, these are Jehovah'sWitnesses.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:08):
How did they not respect you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:12):
Um, they were, they were like questioning my
motives.
of which it's like, well, Idon't know what would be my
motive.
You were best man at my weddingwhen I was 16 years old.
What would my motive be for mebeing here at the assembly?
Scott Stark.
And then Ron Selders, samething, where his cousin and me

(01:06:35):
and, you know, Kelly were bothmarried at 16.
And Kelly, you know, it's like,oh, Ron, what would be my motive
for being here at the assembly?
Knowing what happened you shouldshut up look down at the ground
bow and nod and say yourhighness and shut up because

(01:06:55):
he's my cousin-in-law and thathe should know better and he
should just shut up and leave mealone since we're related not
get his goons coming at me whenit's like you know the dirt I
have on that fool I

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:13):
would imagine you freaked him

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:14):
out Well, and then we were standing at the
escalator.
There was like 30 of them.
30.
And they all swore.
They're swarming me towards thedoor to leave.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:26):
Yeah, that's the body shield I was telling you
about.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:30):
What?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:31):
That's the body shield I was telling you about.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:33):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:34):
They have to guide you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:36):
Yeah, well, I got a body shield.
You want a chest bump?
I'll chest bump you in the nextweek.
So, you know...
Smart girl can just bump youhard.
So anyway, they were trying toherd me towards the doors.
And so the escalators were likethis.
And so all the brothers werearound the escalator up above.

(01:08:00):
So the escalator, you know, sothey were trying to get me out.
And my cousin Ron is the oneleading the charge.
And so in front of theescalators, I was like, Ron
Souther is related to DemonizedSmurf Girl.
Like, Ron, you're related toDemonized Smurf Girl.

(01:08:23):
You know, you think you're abigwig in the organization?
It's because he's related toDemonized Smurf Girl, and if he
thinks he's a bigwig, I canbring him down a few pegs,
because the only reason why hethinks he's a bigshot is because
he's related to me.
He'd be nobody.
He would be a nobody person ifhe was not related to me.

(01:08:46):
You know what I'm saying?
I'm big time in theorganization.
Nobody can ever undo that.
And big time in the apostatecommunity.
And he is only who he thinks heis because of me.
If I was not me, he would be azero.
You know, just a big zero.

(01:09:08):
And Scott, whoops, my thing isgoing dead.
Scott Stark would be a zero,too, if he hadn't have been best
man at my 16-year-old wedding.
And so that's a perfect setupfor him to take a fall, you
know.
Like, you think you're somebody?
You think you're somebody in theorganization?
Because, you know, you're onlysomebody because you knew me,

(01:09:30):
because I put you there, becauseof that one, I, you know.
They'll be real, you know, thisis just getting me all upset.
Getting

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:41):
all worked up.
This

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:45):
has been a good talk, though.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:52):
It has.
It has.
Both of us, we have more to askeach other, but this was a good
start for me as well.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:00):
Yeah.
We're going to delve into itreal deep.
It's like a precursor ofstarting a dialogue, of having a
vlog of where we really digdeep, where people now know your
history.
Because it's complicated.
It's going to take a long timefor each one of us to delve into

(01:10:25):
our psyches of what was reallydone to us and what they're
doing and

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:30):
what the

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:31):
problem is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:32):
You know what I like about us?
What?
We were in the same cult, but wesee it from two different
viewpoints.
You had a lot of hurt and pain.
Like I told you earlier today,people who failed you, who
should have been there for you.
Whereas I, it was my life.

(01:10:56):
I loved it.
I loved doing what I was doing.
I think it'll be I think it'llwork out well for our listeners
and viewers.
Well, yeah.
Both sides of

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:07):
it.
You're the perfectrepresentation of the Meathead
Brothers that I've been fightingwith this whole time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:15):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:16):
No, it's perfect.
It's like, do you know what youput me through, Mitch?
Put me through.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:22):
No one's my

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:23):
friend.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:24):
Body shield.
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:26):
know, it's just you.
Whatever.
Just, okay, it's what I want todo.
When Mitch was a servant, was aministerial servant, you know
what I wanted to do to you?
This.
This.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:40):
And this.
Oh my goodness, y'all treated meso bad when I had that Instagram
account.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:45):
Good thing you're in the other

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:47):
room.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:48):
Now,

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:51):
now, I am an honorary Samuel Heard
representative.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:56):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:58):
wonder twins

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:00):
twins activate

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:02):
dark light

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:04):
yep ebony and ivory can i be ebony i don't want to
be ivory every time

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:10):
honestly honestly yeah i prefer that my daughters
say i'm the lightest black manshe knows

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:16):
yeah well okay so is that at the end of the show now
should we say goodbye

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:22):
yeah yeah right do you have anything you want to uh
plug before we leave

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:28):
just all of our channels subscribe to every
single one of them like six orseven times like everything
don't miss a thing

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:37):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:37):
you have xjw smurf girl rose bundy

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:41):
there you go

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:42):
and uh mitch what is your xjw

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:47):
yeah it's just uh is uh most of my social media and
media handles xjw exj dub don'tforget about what we just did
today.
We made YouTube and TikTok forour show.
You can find us, the XJW Networkshow on YouTube and TikTok.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:12):
This

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:16):
is about to be huge.
Thank you.
It's

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:21):
going to be good.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:22):
I'm glad I stopped being afraid of you and talked
to you that one day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:27):
i know i'm harmless

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:30):
unless you

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:30):
get on my bad side

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:32):
riding a wild beast that scared me

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:36):
i am really i'm coming in i'm coming in hot

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:40):
oh boy

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:41):
you gotta do it we gotta do it oh i hate it

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:44):
thank you all for tuning in thank you for asking
me those questions they weregreat like a great way to start

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:54):
thank

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:54):
you to know me so i appreciate it

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:57):
This is great.
And thanks for wearing yourring.
We can do this on a

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:00):
regular basis.
Every time.
I feel like, I feel like saying,

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:05):
Oh, Oh, are you going to stay?
Okay.
Well, thanks a lot, everybody.
It was good to see you.
We'll see you again real soon onthe XJW network show with Smurf
girl and Mitch.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:20):
I love it.
Talk to you all later.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:23):
Bye.