Brenden 'Margo' Margieson: Renaissance Man

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I got smoked on the takeoff on one and we got pushed
really close to the rocks andit was pretty much at the bottom
of the earth.
It was just such a remotelocation at the time and I went
I'm too, too old for this and Iwas like you're the young free
surfer coming up and I was likeit was almost like passing on
the baton to you, sort of thing,which is weird.
I'm like I think you know I'vejust felt like I had this
massive responsibility of I'vegot a child.

(00:21):
Now I can't be doing thisraucous, dangerous sort of stuff
where it never even occurred tome doing that.
I sort of look at that as oneof the turning points in life
where I felt like I hadresponsibility.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the
aquatic experiences that shapewho we become.
Back on land.
I'm your host, lauren Hill,joined by my partner, dave
Rastovich.
Here we get to talk story withsome of the most interesting and
adept waterfolk on the planet.
We acknowledge the BundjalungNation, the traditional
custodians of the land andwaters where we work and play,

(00:57):
who have cared for this seacountry for tens of thousands of
years.
Respect and gratitude to allFirst Nations people, including
elders, past, present andemerging.
This season is supported byPatagonia, whose purpose-driven
mission is to use business tosave our home planet.
Today we're in conversationwith Brendan Margison, widely

(01:21):
considered the first paid freesurfer.
Margo, as he's known, is famedfor the juxtaposition of his
gentle demeanor on land and hisexplosive power surfing.
Margo is featured in a dozen orso surf movies, including the
Green Iguana, the Sons of Funand the Billabong Challenge.
In 1998, australia's SurfingLife magazine called Margo quote

(01:43):
the best free surfer in theworld.
After a handful of years mostlyaway from the ocean, margot is
currently in the midst of amidlife renaissance, with a
surging social media presenceand a slew of sponsorship deals.
He works part time as anecologist and has reclaimed his
place as pretty much everyAussie bloke's favorite surfer.
Its place as pretty much everyAussie bloke's favorite surfer

(02:13):
have you ever had a time whenyou were just in?
the right place at exactly theright moment.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yes, when we met, oh, that's nice.
Yeah, I didn't expect that one,did you?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I didn't.
I was thinking about how I amterrible at thinking up like
specific stories on the spot.
I'm really bad at that.
But I was just thinking abouthow, every time you get a set
wave that comes to you likeyou're sitting in the water and
from far, far in the depths ofthe ocean comes this set wave,

(02:40):
and when you're in the rightplace, it's just like oh my God,
I get to.
You know I get to go, i're inthe right place.
It's just like oh my god, I getto, you know I get to go, I'm
in the right place.
And then there's usuallysomeone there who's like no,
that's yeah, sometimes the case.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
But I think, in regards to this conversation
with brendan, for me actually itwas being in relation to him as
a young grom and coming into myyoung adulthood at a time where
he was having a young familyand sort of stepping back a
little bit from being awandering surfer that was paid

(03:14):
just to wander, essentially, andI was just really lucky to be
there at that point where he, Ithink, was saying no to some
trips because he had a youngfamily to raise and I was, you
know, 20, 21 years old, justsaying yes to everything.
So I actually had in relationto him who I think has

(03:34):
incredible timing, likeBrendan's life has just got so
many amazing moments that werejust serendipitous and
incredibly graceful.
Even though he's a really funnykind of clumsy guy on land,
he's incredible in the water, asan ocean man.
He's just amazing.
So that, yeah, really makes methink of that kind of timing.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I often hear him spoken about by our friends and
your friends with such reverencefor who he is.
Why is that Like?
Why does he resonate so deeplywith so many men in particular?
I grew up in the States, sortof outside of the bubble of

(04:17):
influence and maybe at the wrongtime, so I wasn't really aware
of his story as much as if I'dgrown up here.
So I'm really curious why,Margot?
Why does his story resonate sowidely?

Speaker 3 (04:24):
I think at the very centre of it is that if you've
ever had an interaction with himyou realise he's just a really,
really humble, kind ofself-deprecating kind guy.
But then you go and see him inthe water and he's capable of
things that nobody else can do.
He's just a super unique way ofsurfing and reading waves.
Zoo, he's just super unique wayof surfing and reading waves.

(04:47):
So there's that, and I thinkthat fits really neatly into the
whole Australian cheering forthe underdog sort of tall poppy
thing, where it's like the moresuccessful you are, the sort of
less cool you are in Australia.
I think it's really aninteresting sort of paradox.
His personality fits right intothat whole celebrated character

(05:08):
in Australia of the reallyhumble, successful person.
So, it's sort of like you know,the more successful you are in
Australia, the kind of the lesscool you are, and if you have
the certainly when I was a kidif you have success in the world
but you still have all yourmates like you're still humble
and just kind of the same aseveryone else, then you are

(05:31):
actually really, really cool.
So Brendan's kind of like theepitome of that, where he could
do things in the water that noone else could do but he was so
humble and just a quiet achieverin a way on land that made him
just feel always relatable younever felt like he was up high
on this pedestal that nobodyelse could reach so different

(05:54):
than the masculinity that I sawgrowing up from surfers of a
similar era.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Maybe you know little younger, but like the andy
irons, for example, and the, thebravado and the like, just
intense, not necessarilyagroness, but just like claiming
the bigness of the personality.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Well, it's funny because that you say andy,
because andy was really similarto brandon in a lot of ways
where he was so good to hisfriends and his mates and he was
actually really humble but whenit came game time to be a world
champion and stuff, he was soconfident that he appeared
otherwise.
But actually everyday life hewas such a just a relatable guy

(06:39):
to lots of people.
I saw that around the world withhim, which was really admirable
.
But brendan's deal was somethingwhere it's kind of illustrated,
where he won a contest andeveryone was so happy, like
everyone he beat in that contestin Indonesia were just so
stoked that he beat them becausehe's just so.
He's just a lovable guy and forme as a kid growing up in like

(07:02):
the 90s, late 90s, and seeingthe world of men being defined
by popular characters like Ramboand Arnold Schwarzenegger and
that kind of world and surfingwas full of that I grew up
surfing a spot where there wasfights in the water every single
swell.
You know, brendan was just theopposite of all that and I think
that is another reallyimportant part of his story is

(07:25):
that he, even though he's asuper humble guy, he was
confident enough in himself andhis own character to just be a,
softly spoken, kind person in aworld that was very different to
that and I think that's justcontinued and that's why, yeah,
people continue to admire himand admire his surfing and he's
just a really lovable guy.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Just a full bird head's eye Every time we walk.
We don't even get far in thebush.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
You never get to the waterfall or to the lookout no,
just the side of the truck andeverybody's going.
What the fuck are they doing?

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Just sit down and go.
Poor thingy-pilly.
He's going.
I've been looking for a matefor so long and I'm like, oh
sorry mate, did you hear thatone over there?
Was that a?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
response?
Yeah, that might have been aresponse.
Yeah, so the morning Brendanwas coming.
I can just remember howsometimes Margs would be a
little uncomfortable when peoplewould pull out cameras to video
things.
And he came at a time insurfing where it was just the
surfing that was videoed, it wasnone of the other stuff.

(08:30):
You know, now everyone's likevideoing them, making toast and
coffee in the morning and everyother thought of the day.
It's just ridiculous in a way.
But for brendan and I likeespecially him it was just the
surfing.
And then it started to creep inwhere people had digital
cameras with microphones andthey'd record all kinds of
things.
And I remember seeing Brendanbe a little uncomfortable with
that stuff.
And so I felt like when he wascoming over to our place, that

(08:52):
in order to talk about his loveof birds and bird watching and
ecology, we would have to dothat kind of while we're doing
it, because I feel like he wouldbe uncomfortable talking about
it.
Because you know, know, it's notlike the coolest thing in the
universe to be a birder to somepeople, you know, it's like it's
a niche interest in some ways,but you just see how lit up he

(09:15):
is about it, and with hispartner Lorena, she's just such
a ray of light as well, and theyboth share this love of
observing the bird world inAustralia, which is so central
to life here.
You really notice it.
It's like even in the suburbsit's just full of bird song.
And so when he arrived,instantly he was this.
He had his ears up and was likepointing into the forest,

(09:37):
saying oh, listen to that,something, something or other
war, blah, blah, blah blah.
I didn't know any of the namesand I could just see how lit up
he.
So I was so stoked to get therecorder out and pretend like I
was recording the birds, butactually I wanted to be
recording Brendan and hisenthusiasm.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
All right, I wasn't here that day, so I'm looking
forward to listening to whatthat sounded like Look how
pretty the shiny bronze cookoois.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
That was a distinct.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah, you can see how pretty the shiny bronze cuckoo
is.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
That was a distinct.
Yeah, sounds like a car alarm.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Is that still there?

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, oh, wow.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Star style.
Well, universe on its back, sopretty man.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
In the right light, incredible.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yeah, shit, you got a keen ear man.
You knew exactly what that was.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
He's there.
Have you seen him fly by?
Yeah, see, if he does anotherfly by.
Oh, that's a no, it wasn't, yep, that's him See, there he is.
Yeah, you can see his little,he's wiggin', he's wiggin' Look.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Oh, that's so cool.
Okay, epic, alright, that's thebest use of a phone I've seen.
Yes, there you go.
Oh, that was awesome, that wassick.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
I see that bird all the time yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Oh, that makes me so happy.
I can't wait to share that withthe family.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
They come and go those things, but they're
actually a beautiful bird inthat right light.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
We usually start these conversations with that
question.
We ask people for a time or anexperience in their life where
after that, they were never thesame.
Have you got one of those thatcomes to mind that you'd want to
share?

Speaker 1 (11:50):
I guess, being a bit older now, being 50, there's
more than just one of thosemoments.
But randomly, as a fun fact,one or an interesting one, I
thought was randomly with a tripwith you.
I think it was 2001, 2002.
And for starters, it was theyear my son, michael, was born
and I was a father and obviouslyI felt like a huge

(12:10):
responsibility of, you know,being a dad.
But we did a surf trip togetherdown to Victoria with Andy
Campbell and then we ended upgoing down to Tassie and we
walked in to surf Shipsternslike absolutely freaky heavy
wave and no one really been inthere before and actually I
think you may have as well.
I think we were on likeseven-foot boards which people

(12:30):
just laugh at, riding thoselength boards and those heavy
sort of waves.
I went in there and actually youprobably don't remember, but it
was like a turning point for mebecause I got smoked on the
takeoff on one and we got pushedreally close to the rocks.
You know you can get pinballedin there and I was always
considered myself as a.
I liked the bigger waves.
I didn't, you know, I wasn't abig, big wave surfer but I liked

(12:54):
to have a dig and then, after Igot pinballed near those rocks
and I felt like because wewalked two and a half hours or
two hours to get into the jointand there was no one around, it
was just us and it was prettymuch at the bottom of the earth,
it was just such a remotelocation at the time and I um
went I'm too, too old for thisand I was like you're the young
free surfer coming up and I waslike it was almost like passing
on the baton to you sort ofthing, which is weird.

(13:15):
I'm like I think, you know, I'vejust felt like I had this
massive responsibility of likeI've got a child.
Now I can't be doing thisraucous, dangerous sort of stuff
where it never even occurred tome doing that.
And I know I sort of look atthat as one of the turning
points in life where I felt likeI had responsibility of yeah,
100%.
I had a child to you know.

(13:37):
Look after and not be so wellnot reckless and abandoned, but
I was like it just made me feelwas that, I know, like a change
yeah, that's so interesting,it's an interest.
It's a different sort ofperspective of looking at.
You probably never guessedthat's one thing that I'd say,
but I wouldn't have.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
And you know that's so interesting because now
Lauren and I have aseven-year-old, or he's turning
eight tomorrow but I've.
I'm in the same world now where.
I typically have places I goand surf alone a lot and they
can be deemed quite fishy and alittle bit sketchy and I get a

(14:14):
bit of heat from some friendsaround surfing those kind of
waves and alone and stuff, andthat has changed for me since
having our little fella, yeah,so I can fully relate.
And it's so wild that I was justprobably a completely
self-obsessed 20 year old at thetime, as we all are in our 20s,
we're the center of our world.
So I was totally oblivious,exactly, yeah, like, of that

(14:38):
fact that you were going throughthat.
Exactly.
I didn't realize that tillright now, yeah that micah had
just been born.
Yeah, and that that was whatyou were going through, because
I remember I don't even like Iremember at the end of that day
we were like holy shit, that wassome pretty serious water.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, it was intense.
We never knew really what wewere in for and especially like
we walked in there, it was likewhatever it was a couple of
hours and and looking where topaddle out and surfing these
incredibly radical waves I meanit was an incredible experience.
And then coming in and walkingback, I think we left in the
morning at dawn and came back atdusk and just went, oh my God,

(15:13):
and you walked in in bloody Uggboots, by the way, that's right,
I did Ugg boots.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, my ankles never forgive me.
I was like you threw those Uggboots away?
That's right, they would havesmelled so bad away.
That's right, it would havesmelled so bad too.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
It was funny.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
That's so interesting .

Speaker 1 (15:25):
But yeah, it was just a point where I thought, yeah,
I was like maybe I'm not a bigwave surfer I mean I do like big
waves, but just that heavyfeeling.
But I remember before that,though, on many trips to Hawaii,
I just was pretty reckless andabandoned and didn't really
think about that.
And it was just a point where Ithought life's not just about

(15:47):
me, it's about yeah, how oldwere you then when that happened
?
Uh, I would have been 2023years ago.
What's that?
30, 30-ish?
yeah, yeah, yeah wow, yeah, wow,that's so cool.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
It's so interesting, isn't it, when you've had, like,
a shared moment with someonefrom so long ago.
But yeah, one of you didn'tknow what was fully going on at
that time.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, so it was a different sort of trip, but I've
had a lot of other.
You know life-changing sort ofexperiences, but you know some
very heavy ones, but yeah, andsome enlightening ones.
We talked for days to about toget deep, but yeah, interesting,
were you always different afterthat?

Speaker 3 (16:24):
then Do you feel?
Like now that your kids aregrown up and they're running
their lives, are you going to goback to shippies and surf it
again now?
Has it returned at all?
Or do you feel like that wasjust something that was
happening in your 20s and you'velet?

Speaker 1 (16:38):
it go?
That's an amazing question too,because I find myself now I've
moved down to quite a locationand I do surf a little bit more
alone and a bit more carefreeagain, but I you know, it's
always in the back of your mind,and I'm sure that's why you've
always done it too that freedomof surfing by yourself and no
one else around.
I probably enjoy those moments alot more now because I know my

(17:00):
son's 24 now and, yep, he's ayoung man.
It's his journey and yeah, Imean you're a lot, you're more
responsible a bit more, youcarefully your decisions, but
it's one of my favorite thingsto do in life is surf, yeah,
away from the crowd or I don'tthink I've ever heard a
conversation about this.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Actually I've I.
This is really cool.
This is such a left field angle.
I would not have anticipated abit unexpected yeah, but it's
really interesting because, likeyou, look at people like I
don't know.
Think of michael ho, mason hothat family, yeah, true michael.
He's in his 70s now, is he?
Oh, he would be, and he'scharging back door and still

(17:38):
doing those like the heaviestshallow water waves you can get.
Yeah, and his kids are nowadults, running their own deal.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
So I wonder if he went through a dip when he was a
new father and was, you know,wanted to make sure he was there
his kids didn't grow up withouta dad or anything you know and
then he returned to being a fullmadman Could be like a male
paternal instinct, sort of thingto say you know that you're
there that sort of thing to gothrough.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I guess.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, you go, because I think the assumption would be
that it's like a straight linewhere, like we're crazy in our
20s- we're crazy in our teensand our 20s.
Then you start to get a fewreality checks in your 30s and
then you pull your head in inyour 40s and you're sweet
forevermore.
Yeah.
But what I'm feeling like thisis showing is that once your
kids have proven that they canfly, they can swim, they can,

(18:30):
take care of.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Then you can relax a little again you can relax a
little again.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
But does that mean you relax into being kind of a?
Wild man again in thosedangerous situations, but with a
bit more wisdom.
Yeah, it's very interesting.
I'd be super curious to talkwith more people of like our age
and a bit older to see how thatarc has gone.
Like if it is just a one-waystreet and you're like nah,
those days of riding those superdeadly or solo waves are fully

(18:57):
behind me, or if they do comeback, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
It was funny.
I just did a trip over toMexico.
I went to that Pasquale's jointand it was actually one bombing
day and I was like, oh my God,I sort of bring back those early
feelings and I did manage tothrow myself over the edge of
one you know, 10-footer and Iwas like oh my God, no, I'm
doing it, I'm doing it and itwas just such a good thing
because, yeah, it was just agood freedom feeling of just

(19:20):
like, Just like.
Oh, it's like I can't still doit, I'm like everything held in
place and tippy-toed down thisthing and did you pull it?
Were your reflexes like good Imade the drop and it didn't
really.
Oh you know, I just bottomturned and flicked off because
it was a big teepee, but it justfelt good to be out in you know
, solid, 10 feet waves.

(19:40):
I haven't been in waves thatbig for ages.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
But yeah, Cool it was a good feeling.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
And yeah that thing about surfing it always makes
you youthful, and I think that'swhy all of us are so addicted
to it it gives you so manydifferent things, doesn't it?
You know?
Freedom, youthfulness and a lotof meditative states of mind
and happy days.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah, and also that thing of like what I'm hearing
you say is like getting to sortof know those different parts of
ourselves to at different timesin our life, like you knowing,
okay, I'm a new dad, yeah, andmaybe I won't just do hail mary
exactly so much for this period,but not really knowing then
that maybe those days could comeback in your 50s perhaps, yeah,

(20:26):
which is going to be reallyinteresting for people to watch.
So, like just yesterday, I waslooking at some pretty serious
water around here.
We had one of our biggest swellsand I was sitting on a cliff
top with two buddies and Imentioned that I was going to
sit down and have a yarn withyou today and they were so
pumped.
They were both so pumped.
I said, tell me what, like whatwould you want to know if you
got to sit down with brendan?

(20:47):
What would you ask him?
And they were really curiousabout how you're going now with
your life and with surfing.
And they were, in particular,wanting to know how you're still
able to be doing the kind ofsurfing that you can do.
And they were talking aboutspecifically seeing some footage

(21:07):
of you in some recent timewhere you're doing some of your
textbook pendulum surfing, whereyou're wrapping around and
circular and going upside downand stuff.
And they were like I want to beable to do that.
You know they're in their early40s, late 30s.
They're like I want to be ableto keep doing that kind of thing
too.
So what's your response to thatwhen people ask you how you're

(21:30):
pulling that?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, well, that's super cool.
I guess there was a windowthere that I actually, you know,
I was surf Nazi right till mymid-30s and then I sort of, you
know, had a few things happen inlife where surfing was far from
the thing that I wanted in mylife.
I sort of had like a what wasit like?
Five to eight year not breakfrom surfing.

(21:53):
I was still surfing, but Ithink one year I maybe only
surfed once, or something likejust fully lost interest.
But then, losing that passionfor surfing and all that, I did
go down a dark hole and I knewsomething was missing and
surfing pretty much felt like itsaved my life again you know,
but I don't know the last,probably five or six years, it's

(22:13):
funny.
I didn't realize how much itmeant to me and how much I don't
know, just this youthfulnessthing that came back to me.
I had a beautiful, fresh startwith a beautiful lady that I've
met now and things were juststarting to rolling because I
was surfing a lot and I wasusing that, as I guess, like a
meditative sort of thing ofgoodness mindfulness.

(22:34):
That helped me through thattime, but I don't know.
Then, flukingly enough, I gotpicked up by a board company and
I had boards coming at me and Iwas like wow and I just had
this fondness of being like agrommet of all these new,
different sort of boards, notjust writing
these standard sort of board andI like to do a little bit of
yoga.
I'm not not crazy aboutanything and try and be pretty
healthy now, but I just think ifI can get in the water at least

(22:57):
five times a week and I live alittle bit, you know, I live
like 25 minutes from beach now,but I think that's a good thing
because when I do go down thereI make myself go surfing, I make
, you know, make the effort,whereas before living on the
beach you sort of get a bit, youknow, oh, I'll go out later
when the tide's different.
All of this and I think,missing these years of surfing.
And then my son helped me too,like being a keen young surfer

(23:20):
and seeing his froth and stokeand wanting me to go surfing
with him and just bring out thatenjoyment too.
Had all these littleingredients that sort of worked
together and helped me be, youknow, in this weird career that
I'm in now with surfing again,which is so bizarre.
And it's so weird because it'sa little bit to do with social
media, which is sort of anabsolute love-hate, weird thing,

(23:42):
but for some reason it's helpedme sort of have this
opportunity to sort of make aliving out of surfing again,
which is so bizarre but it's sofun and people are literally so
stoked for me and I'm stoked formyself.
I think people love to seesurfing on rail and something
they can relate to and I thinkthat's why and they love style.

(24:03):
I mean, I'm not talking myselfup, but we have unique styles
like obviously I've got my styleand you've got your soul and
you surf so beautifully on thewave.
You know which peopleabsolutely adore and froth and
feel very blessed to.
You know, I'd never take it forgranted.
I'm stoked the way things haveturned out, but just at the end
of the day, I'm not trying to doanything and I'm sure you

(24:23):
aren't too.
You're just expressing yourselfwhen it's just how it is.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, I kind of figured that was how your
response would be, that youwouldn't be banging out a
thousand push-ups every morningand sit-ups and then, like you
know, because that's what mymates are like, they're like how
is he doing this shit?
Like you know, and and I wasthinking, well, I don't know,
maybe you surf and then you'rein bed for a week after doing

(24:47):
those sort of turns.
Because I'm at an age now whereI'm I have to do a little bit
of training and do stuff tobalance out my body, because
I've got some niggles and somesore bits, you know.
And and I like thinking aboutwhen we sit down and have these
sort of chats, like havinguseful insights or useful
stories for people to listen andbe like, oh, you know what, I'm
gonna try that, you know, maybethat's something someone will

(25:08):
just hear then with you is likeliving a little further from the
beach and just going and beinglike you know what, I'm just
gonna go out, I made the drive,I'm here or going.
Yep, I want five sessions aweek just to keep things rolling
.
You know that that's usefulstuff for people.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
I think so and I think too, you realise, when you
do get older, don't be scaredto write a little bit longer, a
little bit thicker board.
I do see a lot of people todayat my age and they're still
writing the same boards theywere writing you know in their
early 30s and I see thefrustration on them and when
they do stand up they're likerah, just all a bit out of whack

(25:46):
and it's like not to be.
You know you don't need to ridea mid-length or anything like
that.
Just step it up a bit and don'tbe.
There's no need to ridesomething so thin.
Just didn't, yeah, um yeah but,and I surf, tried to surf within
myself, whereas when I wasyounger I didn't.
I was pretty used to, I don'tknow, I used to do silly white
patches, you know, because Iused to do the most stupidest I
used to go for like sillymaneuvers and silly spots um all

(26:09):
the time.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
You always used to laugh at me so much they were so
inspiring, they were the bestfalls ever because, like you
said, you would be upside downon a part of a wave where no one
would go to do a turn.
They'd just be going straightto go through that section and
you'd be like I think I'll hitthat and go upside down.
But then that didn't alwayswork out.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
No, 100%.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
So that's great that you brought that up, because
that was always inspiration,because you always seem to do
that with a laugh.
That's always been myappreciation for how many
adventures and just surfsessions we got to share over
that period in time where Ireally got a lot of inspiration
from seeing the way you carriedyourself through that world.

(26:53):
That is pretty prickly at timesand kind of hard to navigate.
You know when you know peopleare watching you.
Yes, you know people arewatching and recording you.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
And audiences are judging you.
Yeah, it's like you can.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
I would get really, really self-conscious in contest
scene areas.
I would just get way too in myhead and I'd have so much
chatter in my head oh thisperson doesn't like me over
there, oh they think this aboutme, or oh shit, they're looking
at me now and it just I got waytoo in my head in that space.
So as much as I for my youngeryears in surfing wanted to go

(27:33):
and have adventures and goexplore different things in
surfing and surfboards and I wassaying yes to that, I was also
really saying no to the contestworld and cameras and all of
that stuff that I couldn't copewith.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
And I saw a similar thing with you, I think.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
I went through the same struggles, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Was it like that for you?
A bit like where you felt like,fuck, this is intense having
people sort of watching me allthe time.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Definitely.
And especially your surfing,yeah, just being sort of under
the microscope all the time, andI think that's what the best
thing, the fortunate thing thatwe had we were able to go on
trips, like on a boat trip toIndo or go to a remote location,
and then we weren't aroundcertain crowds and then we were

(28:19):
mic-blinded, sort of thing, andyeah.
So we just felt like we couldescape the crowds and all that
and we were in our own littlebubble and then we could express
ourselves, surfing and stuff,and feel like I could laugh and
fall off in front of you andjust be ourselves.
And it did make us feel like wecould surf better because we're
pushing each other at the sametime.
But we're pushing each otheractually pretty hard.

(28:39):
Like I love surfing with youand I'm vice versa, I'm sure,
like we, we really did pushourselves, but we pushed
ourselves in a way, we tried todo silly things and it was that
ridiculous.
We're just laughing at eachother because, like what?
The hell are you trying to do a?
floater on an eight-foot bloodyhose out at Arcee, oh God.
And you know you do some prettycrazy stuff, dave.

(29:00):
But no, it was just fun to havethat escapism on those trips
because you're surfing aroundyou know like-minded people and
very talented surfers at thetime so you could push each
other.
But it is hard coming backsurfing at home in a crowded
spot than people froth ordifferent.

(29:21):
I think it would be even hardernow.
being a young, up-and-coming,inspiring pro, it feels like
they're getting judged way more,especially if social media and
whatnot be pretty tough, but itwas still tough for us, I think
in those days I think maybe itwas tough, more so in our own
heads than what it was really.
So that's, I guess the keypoint is like but I think that's

(29:43):
what made you a perfectionistand made me a perfectionist too.
Or try that extra bit harder toachieve, because yeah we're
trying to be the best, we'retrying to perfect a sport.
That's pretty much impossibleto do but it's like you know we
try to do our jobs really reallygood.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah.
I've been thinking lately justabout your grommethood, growing
up in the Byron area and justsort of wanting to know who your
inspirations were, because whenI reached out to our friend
Will Connor, and said I wasgoing to have a yarn with you he
wrote me this unbelievablemessage and he was quick to make

(30:24):
the point that when you guyswere kids growing up in the 80s,
there was a scene of kind ofmachismo and being like a rough
Aussie and like a tough guy inthe surfing world around that
time, and Will's words were thatyou were the exact opposite.
You were just like up for alaugh, always making him laugh.

(30:45):
He said that you guys just grewup laughing all the time,
surfing closeouts at the wrecktogether.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
That was my favorite scene.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, he just was so quick to say that it was that
that he respected and knew somuch that even when you started
just surfing circles aroundeveryone around here, you still
had that just humble and sort ofjovial nature.
Where did that come from?
When you were a grommet way?
Did you have examples to followin that way?

(31:13):
Were there any elders or anyonewho showed you that path?
Or was that just you being youdespite the culture around you?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I honestly think it was me being me and maybe, yeah,
obviously the way I was broughtup, but I honestly it was such
a cool place to grow up in theearly days with.
I'm sure it's still a greatplace to grow up now.
There's no, you know, it's justa different era yeah but that
time surfing the wreck at Beach,even the pass or whatever.
There was so many good surfersin the town and it felt like not

(31:45):
many people came in and wentout.
It was just like the same hotyoung grommets and the hot
20-year-olds and hot30-year-olds.
There's a lot of great surfersin the area, but we'd always be
out there and it was just apecking order.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yeah, lot of great surfers in the area, but we'd
always be out there and therewas justa.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
It's just a pecking order, it was simple as that.
There was this, like you'd getthe scraps and I just had to
just wait your turn, and I don'tknow.
I just thought, I thought Iwould just be polite and wait my
turn, and then I don't know, Ijust, I just thought that was
the rules and that's the way itwas.
I just believed in taking yourterm and just relaxing, and but
then I always I for somethingabout me too, like at the wreck,
for example, there was abreakdown, the beach called the
Boilers, and I thought it wasjust as good and I'd just rather

(32:21):
go and sit down there and get acouple.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
What about the surfing technique, though?
So?
Like when you look at like.
I have heaps of inspirationwhen I was a kid from some of
the older crew at.
Burley, who just rode the tubeincredibly and had a real,
distinct way of being in the pitthere.
What about you around here?
Was there anyone that wassurfing in a way where you were
like, oh yeah, I want to havethat in me.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
There was a guy called Gary Timperley.
I think he was on tour therefor a little bit and whatnot,
but he was just an incrediblepowerful surfer, sort of stocky,
sort of opposite the way I surf, sort of thing, but he was just
he just really stood outincredible surfer.
There's another guy that livesat lennox now called noel graham
and he was a phenomenal railsurfer, powerful and it was

(33:10):
awesome it was awesome and therewas a guy a little bit older
than me, jeremy Biles, from NewBrighton.
He used to come in and surf towna lot too, and he was like, he
was so gnarly, he was so radicalthat he had an amazing presence
about himself.
Biles, when he was young he wasreally good.
He was really good, reallyyoung, yeah.
But then there was theselow-key guys like this dude

(33:32):
called Leonard Robbins.
I'm sure we all might havementioned him.
He was just the most laid back.
He's almost the cruisier surfer, the most laid back style I
think I've ever seen in my life.
It was almost like he wasasleep standing up on his board.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Was he just stunned the whole time?

Speaker 1 (33:49):
you reckon Probably yeah, I dare say so.
Yeah, he never used to say much, he always had the Chinese eyes
or whatever, but he could ridethe barrel and he could just do
the raddest laybacks and just.
But then there was a generationof young guys at the same age
who were better than me, which,I guess, pushed me so much.
There was a guy called SashaSlay, yeah.

(34:10):
And then there was Craig Holley, up down at Lennox Head, and
there was so many hot guysaround at the time that, yeah,
it was just so many good guys.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
I've got to read this too, because it's just
unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Okay, I want to hear it.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
So Will Connor grew up in the Byron area with you,
margs, and he actually hisfamily are from the same
hometown as my partner Lauren'shometown.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
That's so wild All the way over in Florida.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
St Augustine, which is pretty classic, so we've got
some funny links there.
But Will is a great surfer.
He's a really great musicianand an incredible friend just a
great guy.
He's good mates with theJohnsons in Hawaii and all kinds
of people around the surfingand music world.
When I hit him up he just wasgushing.
He's like oh my God, how muchtime do I have?
I'll just like he just it wasgushing.

(34:58):
He's like oh my god, how muchtime do I have?
I'll write you this.
So he said there's so much Ilove about brendan's character.
But first thing is when we werekids he wasn't one of the aggro
surfers who would be harsh onland.
That was the deal in the 80ssuper aggro on land, like it was
some sort of rite of passage.
But I gravitated towardshanging with him because he was
just a gentle character and sofunny, funny as they come.
We used to just laugh and surfall day and laugh while surfing.

(35:20):
Even we would surf the wreckmaxed out and just take off
together and look at each other.
The whole drop like right inthe face, staring contest sort
of stuff, straight dropping intothe crazy steep waves there.
Not sure how we both did thatbeing natural footers.
But no one else is probablythinking that that's that funny,
but it was ridiculous and a bigrush.
He lived on the next street fromme and it was a daily after

(35:42):
school surf at the rarecortellos.
And then, as we got older, Iremember right before I left to
go to america I was 18, he wasabout 16, we were surfing
seahorses contest in byron atbroken yeah, and he just all of
a sudden was miles ahead of hisage group.
I remember looking up and thewhole beach paused at Broken
when Brendan did a floater fromthe bottom of Broken Point way

(36:06):
past the Kunji Rock and bleweveryone's mind.
That's right, I'm a floater guy, I love a floater.
Then I left and he hooked upwith Jack McCoy a few years
later and I was so proud of himbecause he was the quiet one
that didn't brag and just smokedeveryone without having to be
aggressive.
He said you had thisdetermination that was really
fierce.
He reckons he saw in you likethis determination.

(36:27):
That's probably that perfectionthing you're talking about,
like a gentleness, but notwithout like strength and force.
Can you hear anything?

Speaker 1 (36:37):
in that, not without like strength and force.
Can you hear anything in that?
I think that hit the nail onthe head there, because as much
as Melo was, you know just beingthe nice guy, you know waiting
my turn for a wave and theneveryone paddled around the
inside of me or whatever it be,deep down I really wanted to be
the best surfer in the world.
I wanted to.
There was something aboutsurfing.

(36:58):
I thought I knew I had a uniquestyle or whatever, but I was
surfed quite slowly or had aslow sort of style early.
But then something clicked.
I'm not sure of my, I just gota bit bigger, a bit stronger.
I just felt.
When I stood up, I felt like Icould do anything sort of thing.
It was an incredible feeling and, yeah, it was definitely
something that was deep.

(37:19):
You go to sleep at night.
I wanted to be a world not aworld champion, but I wanted to
be.
I remembered I wanted to be thebest surfer in the world.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I don't want to say it, but I did.
I was just a young Grom's dreamsort of thing.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
And I swear to God, I used to get so angry if I never
made a turn I'd surf for sixhours straight.
I'd put so much time in thewater when I was young.
Any chance I had I was outthere and I truly you know what.
Is it the secret or something?
I think if you really believein something and you really want
it that badly, it will somehowcome to you.

(37:51):
And I think that sort of Iwanted it that badly.
I literally it was blood, sweatand tears to happen, wanted it
that badly.
I literally it was blood, sweatand tears to happen.
But then it sort of happened ina way, or it sort of flukingly
happened.
I was in the right place at theright time when I hooked up
with Jack McCoy, then went awaywith hockey and a trip and got
pumping waves and as uncanny theway it happens.
But yeah, it's just you know alot of luck's involved, but I

(38:12):
just think because I wanted itso much it sort yeah fell my way
yeah and then when I did surf,like with Jack McCoy or a
photographer or anything, I'dstay out there till I got the
shot.
You know, sometimes you can getthe shot within the first wave
and you can pretty much come inand it's done.
Yeah, other times it can takeyou all day, if that you know,
to get a certain you know barrelshot.

(38:34):
Or cameraman's just out of theway, or Jack McCoy's little
three mil tapes just ran out andyou get that sick wave.
You know you can just be out ofout of timing with everything,
but I'd be out.
I'll do what I was asked to doto try and get the shot like
yeah you know where a lot ofpeople I see young people are
going.
They get given these littlegolden opportunities and they're
just like whatever, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
yeah, whatever, it's just yeah, whatever.
Yeah, not dig in and do thework.
I was dedicated, you were.
I remember that I'm stoked youbrought that up with Jack there,
because that was definitelysomething I wanted to dig into,
considering Jack's passingrecently and us sharing some
good stories there.
But that point, so you're youknow, like Will said, your
surfing is grabbing people'sattention and that comes in the

(39:17):
form of sponsors.
At that time, the only routefor someone to not have to
become a tradie or a chef and Iremember you had chef interests
because people were choosingchefing as a job.
that was good with surfing, butall there was is basically
competitions and the hustle ofthe competition world.
I think Rip Curl maybesponsored Gary Green and maybe

(39:38):
Frankie, but probably not yetFrankie.
Oberholzer, he was a little bitlater maybe I think he might've
been a year or two younger.
Yeah, so there was Tom Curran,but he's an ex-world champion.
So he's, you know, had to bethe best in the world and then
he could free surf, but itwasn't really a route.
And so then you know, you're ayoung man and you get pulled
into the Billabong and Jackexperience yeah.

(40:02):
Which was just really kickingoff at that point in that
iteration, because Jack had beenmaking surf films for decades
by then.
But that was the Billabonggolden era.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, Well, Bunyip Dreaming had just come out and
yeah, I'd never thought in amillion years that I'd get the
opportunity to go into his nextproject, the Green Iguana.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
So which is 94 or three.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, it was in the 90s sometimes.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
I can't remember it was that good of a time.
Eh yeah, I was super young andinnocent back then.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
But yeah, just getting the call up to you.
Know, I think Did he call you.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
No, did Vince call you or something Vince?

Speaker 1 (40:38):
did.
Yeah, I think Munger wasactually meant to go on the trip
, like he's pretty much the starof the movie yeah.
But he did his knee and it was alast minute call up and I was
living at Byron at the time andthey said can you get to the
Gold Coast within the next twodays to fly to Western Australia
to get picked up by Jack andOccy to film up in the desert?
And I'm like, I think I'm like18 or something.

(41:00):
I'm like oh, yeah, yeah, okay,I'll do it.
You know like, yeah, I justliterally got picked up maybe
six months before by Bill LeVong, but I had a little reputation.
Margot is this little hot kidfrom Byron and fortunately, our
Vince, yeah, the team manager atthe time, yeah, finished going

(41:20):
to be this golden ticketopportunity and yeah, went there
and to the beyond we got somepumping waves and Jack was super
stoked, um, with the footage hegot.
You know, go along with Occylike man, that dude's so funny
in those early days he had's anincredible place to find
yourself with those two.

(41:40):
Yeah, in the desert, yeah, andit was like two weeks up there,
then come back and thenobviously Jack spoke highly of
me.
Then you know, moreopportunities arose through that
early Billabong Golden years.
And then Rabbit Bethlehem, rabsWayne, rabbit Bethlehem I
couldn't say his last name therefor a second, but yeah, he, he,

(42:00):
uh.
I actually did do a contestback then at that same time as
actually the world titles inFrance, and Rab actually helped
coach me to the final of thatevent, which is rad, because I
was such a bad contest surfer.
But he was like, yeah, he'd letBrandon sit here, brandon sit
here, oh wow a couple of waysand I got to the fight, and all
that same year.
So then he spoke quietly of meas well, and things just sort of

(42:23):
snowballed from then, but thenthey went ah, don't worry about,
we need someone not doing thecontest thing so that was sort
of their idea to come to youwith that too it was they see
that you weren't that pumped onthe contest scene yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
How did that work it?

Speaker 1 (42:38):
was more.
So they wanted someone to,because obviously everything was
shot and filmed back then.
Nothing happened overnight, soit'd take weeks for films to get
developed or whatever.
But all the pro surfers wereoverseas at the time in winter
but they needed summer shots inwinter in Australia and winter
shots in winter in australia andyou know winter shots in summer

(42:59):
, so I found myself surfing inboardies in winter and wetsuits
in summer, or, you know, goingto different locations.
It seemed to work to keep theadvertisement thing up to
scratch the magazines at thetime and it just kept it current
and reliable and I had yeah, soit sort of you were available
too.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
I was available because everyone else was on the
tour pretty much at that point.
There was probably like 16contests a year.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Those guys were going so hard yeah, so they were gone
and they just needed someone toshoot, and then I was sort of
like that.
So it sort of was more likethat, eric you know yeah the way
things turned out, but uh, thenall sudden boat trips started
happening and exploring theworld.
And then, and then, all of asudden boat trips started
happening and exploring theworld.
And then yeah, just shootingwith Jack and Occy and then

(43:42):
things you know, the years passand then it sort of turned into
this like free surf thing and itjust sort of molded in some
weird way.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
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Speaker 3 (46:33):
Isn't it interesting I feel like it's of interest to
note what the surfing world waslike at that time and how you
found yourself in a position ofbeing so like, supported and
celebrated by people, because Ithink at that time the tour and
the contest world was in a lotof lackluster little waves, the

(46:53):
trump you had to try really hardto surf those kind of waves and
win and the idea that you couldbe super talented and off
surfing perfect waves in thesecorners of the world without
crowds.
Yeah, and then also I know forme because I was a grommet
looking up to you and that wholeperiod what was in interesting

(47:13):
to me and inspiring was that youhad a style of surfing that was
so different to everyone in thecompetition world who was
largely surfing with theirmuscle power.
I reckon so in my mind.
I kind of view I viewed it thenand view it now as though there
were the Tommy Carroll kind ofsurfing which is unbelievable.

(47:36):
I've always like he was all downthe line when I was 12 again,
he was another one of my heroes,but his surfing is very
power-oriented via muscles, yeah, true, whereas your surfing was
powerful Like I've seen youhalf waves, with that fucking
backhand turn you do like cleavethem in half.
So extremely powerful surfing,but, and high speed, but you

(48:00):
seemed to be more on the likependulum style, where you would
use gravity and you would justyou would look relaxed.
Essentially, you didn't looklike your muscles were tense and
you were trying really hard.
You just would be zooming alongin your own way and your feet
were closer together.
You weren't in this wide powerstance that was so common at the

(48:23):
time and you were just doingshit that no one else was doing
then and still doesn't do now,and I think that's just of
interest, because, yeah, I thinkthe rest of the surfing world
is probably so refreshed byseeing different lines and just
a different personality too.
You just, you just seem likeyou were happy and you're having

(48:43):
adventures that everyone wouldwant to have, and I truly was
like at that time.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
From my early 20s to probably 26, 27, I literally
everything just sort of fellinto my lap f fumbled, I fumbled
my way through.
I was a country kid from Byronthat you know, left school early
, got halfway through a chef'sapprenticeship and just things.
Just I don't know and it wasjust, I didn't have to think
about.
I didn't think about it toomuch, you know, I didn't let it

(49:10):
worry me or stress me or worryabout what other people thought
of me, and that was probably agood thing.
it just naturally everythingjust happened in this crazy way.
Yeah, yeah, but uh, but it feltlike my surfing just kept.
Yeah, I felt like it got betterand better and better.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, I don't know I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
I felt like I'd still yeah, and it was at a time too
where you know like it waspretty much the same ages kelly
was this high performancesurfing was it's.
It felt like it was this newera.
It age as Kelly.
It was just high-performancesurfing, it felt like it was
this new era.
It finally happened Likesurfing went through, you know,
the single fin era, the twin finand the thrusters came.
There was still so much toexplore, with different things
you could do on a wave.

(49:49):
And I remember doing a reverse,for example before Kelly
Slater's Black and White, oreven knowing that he did it.
But I remember doing a finthrow down at Walker's at the
Blondial area at Byron, and Ipopped the fins out and I
remember spinning backwards,going oh my God, and it spun
around that way and I made ityou know no one around or
whatever and I went that's, whatdid I just do?

Speaker 2 (50:09):
No one, I don't think anyone's done that before?

Speaker 1 (50:19):
I was like tripped out, and I just yeah, I just
said, well, I do remember that.
And then I think what happened?
When you saw the video of himdoing it then, I think about
three months later, it was thisprodigy child from America and I
was like it's Kelly Slater, Iremember he did one in it.
I went, I did that, that'scalled a margot.
Yeah, no it's called a margot, Iknow, but it was a trip and
then it was funny, like here'sjust the next level, obviously.

(50:39):
But yeah, I was like wow, I wasjust I don't know just this
innovation thing of like ridinga normal shortboard and then
trying to do aerials, like Icould get in the air but trying
to land airs, I don't know.
I was into it all, like it wasjust so fun.
Just just, it was incredibletime yeah, um, yeah and then

(51:00):
having no one, really it feltlike, yeah, obviously the oki's
in time, which is next level,but just trying to do your own
thing, like I, wasn't reallylike I have to surf like oki or
I have to.
I had idols but I didn't focuson.
I focused on me that I guessthat's why I had my own style.
I guess yeah.
So yeah, I just concentrated onmy surfing.

(51:21):
I didn't analyse, I didn't sitthere on a tape and watch other
people surf, like people dotoday, and I think that might
have been beneficial.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Yeah, it certainly helps with people having a
uniqueness, you know, whenyou're not picking everything
apart and being having a formulato your surfing.
Yeah, like, I certainly feellike when we're talking about
that era, the 90s there, and asyou go further back from there,
back in time, the uniqueness ofpeople's way was so rad.

(51:52):
There was just so manydifferent ways to surf and I
actually remember it's funny yousay looking at tapes and things
I remember being like 14 orsomething and we were on one of
the East Coast driving trips toa contest or something in Sydney
and we would do the milk runthrough Foster.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Oh, the pro junior.
Yeah, that was hilarious.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
We would do the pro juniors and it was like the most
unbelievable thing in theuniverse to be a grommet then,
because we would get thrown in atarago.
Oh, that's right with you oh mygod, and luke egan, or or
sometimes manga, sometimes evenok, yeah, and we'd get to hang
out and go surfing and we do theexpression session, you do the

(52:33):
expression session.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
We used to just drive and hang at those junior events
yeah, it was unbelievable as akid and babysit you were.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Marco, well, I wouldn't call it babysitting you
ratbags.
You grommets were so radical, Iwasn't Joel was.
Oh, come on.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
No, it was hilarious times back then, but it was true
.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
I remember being at Foster, at Blueyys and boomerang
, and jim brabant, marcusbrabant's dad, had a digital
video camera.
Yeah, do you remember that?
He's just, he used to video allthe time.
Yeah, marcus, and other people,he videoed a surf that we all
had at blueys or something thatday and then that night we got
to, we got to watch it and itwas like the first of ever
seeing that dynamic where youcould see yourself surfing mind.
And I remember it came on theTV screen and I was sitting at

(53:20):
the back of the room soterrified, being like, oh my God
, I wonder how I look Like Ifeel good when I surf but I
wonder how I'm going to lookThen the footage was rolling and
it would just be like one waveafter another.
It was just the day's surf, soyou'd be on one, and then I'd be

(53:44):
on one, and then joel, and thenmunger, and then whoever, and
so good.
It was amazing.
But I remember there was a shotwhere you were just doing your
upside down backhand surfing.
That was just incredible.
But I remember you sawsomething that you didn't like
and you talked yourself way down.
Yeah, and I so I'm a little kidright and I'm hanging off every
word that's coming out of youand luke's mouth and any of the
elders.
I'm like, whatever mannerisms,the way you pick your nose,
everything.
I'm like I'm gonna do exactlywhat those guys do.

(54:06):
So I heard you say that.
Yeah, I heard you like beself-deprecating.
I'm like, oh, that's what youdo.
You never talk yourself up.
You never, ever talk yourselfup.
You talk yourself down.
But then, I actually rememberseeing in you this thing where
you kind of cringed about yourstyle.
You were harsh on yourself, wasI?
Yeah?
Yeah and then I came on thescreen and I had knocked, like

(54:28):
my knees were close together andmy my front yeah, my front arm
was a little crabby, it wasn'trelaxed and I saw it and I was
horrified and I was like, justlike you, I was so harsh on
myself.
I'm like that's it.
I've got to relax that fuckingchicken arm that's out the front
there doing this like yeah,chicken wing thing and I've got

(54:49):
my feet are so close togetherand anyway.
But it was just this funnymoment.
I was just thought it'd beinteresting to bring it up with
you.
Where, like the ship standsthing, you just don't know
what's happening at all timesfor everyone but that was a huge
moment for me that'sinteresting, yeah because I saw
that you were willing to expressmy emotional feelings when you

(55:10):
had that big of a response.
I'm like, yeah, look at this,he's really really cares.
He like you give a shit.
Yeah, and I was thought you'rea free surfer guy so I just
thought everything's just chill,you don't really care about
anything, you're just cruising.
But then you cared.
You were like no, I want to, Iwant to surf out of my skin,
which is that thing you'retalking about that's exactly it

(55:30):
and I want to.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
You know, I want to surf on a.
Yeah, you want to surf the wavefrom the start to the end, just
and finish it perfectly andknow that you put in 110.
You know, I don't know.
I just I always felt like Igave everything when I surfed a
wave and that causes you to falla lot because you're pushing so
hard or whatnot.
but I just felt right, it justfeels that's what it was within

(55:54):
me to do, surfing in that inthose early days.
Yeah, but it did cause you tofall a lot, but then when you
did make it, it was like wow.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
And unforgettable feeling.
Yeah, and it's the best feelingyeah, incredible.
That's so classic eh.
It's so funny little things yourmemory latches onto, yeah, so
if we fast forward a little bitfrom so actually no, that would
have been the same around thesame time, like being awarded
the best free surfer in theworld by surfing magazines 96,

(56:26):
97, 98, that kind of period.
You're like at the height ofyour powers, you know, and all
of us grommets are looking upjust like, oh my God, brendan's
the best, he's like the coolestguy and doing the craziest
things in the ocean.
And then you went to Indo andwent in that NEAS competition.
Oh, yeah.

(56:47):
And won a proper bona fidecontest against all the hero
surfers who would be?
Doing that.
Yeah, that was super cool.
I'm interested in knowing whyyou went and did that and then
how it felt to be the fuckingLord at the end of the day, and
how stoked the surfing world wasthat you weren't actually.

(57:10):
Yeah, dearest, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Yeah, what that was like that was super cool.
I do remember the.
I had a really good board atthe time and yeah, what like six
.
It was pretty long six fourssince I've been like nine, ten
years old old, I'm still ridingsix fours now.
How funny is that?
I've always been on six fours.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
I've struggled riding shorter fours and that was a
six four in the ass, yeah,because it was kind of solid,
wasn't it?

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Yeah, I think it was like four to six foot in the ass
, like it was not massive, butit was Okay yeah.
To me the most in that event.
I was like had this thing whereI'd be the last one to paddle
out no matter what, and then I'dget the first wave of the set
like just so easy.
But I would never do thatnormally.

(57:53):
And I went no, I'm going to dothat.
And I had this game and I gotthrough heat after heat and next
minute I had the most gnarlylike guys that would want the
inside at the start of a heat.
But I even think in the semisor something I was like the heat
had already started and Potowas tripping at me that you know
like Poto's like treated aslike the king, yeah, big time

(58:15):
Asian king, yeah, totally.
And I had the inside straightoff the bat and then the first
set would come through, and thenI'd get an eight or something,
and then you know, we're just ona roll and I only needed maybe
two or three waves, but I did.
I felt that was a thing.
I was like if I just keep doingthis simple thing and it just
stuck with me and I just yeah, Ijust felt like I was surfing

(58:40):
and everything was good.
I wasn't thinking about it andall of a sudden I was in the
final and I made sure I jumpedoff last and I got the first
wave that came through.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
So you're jumping off of the keyhole behind it.
Yeah, yeah, so naturally you'rethe deepest and then you got it
.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Yeah, I know it's not really genius, it's just, but
it was something that I wouldnever do, that you know,
especially to someone like podoor to whoever else was in the
event, and even the hungry youngguys.
I remember, yeah, taj.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Wink and all those crew were there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Wink and I think Lowey.
Lowey wigged out at me too,because he was very competitive.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Michael Lowe.
And yeah, just I don't know, itfelt good to have that little
bit of authority, sort offeeling of like no, this is mine
and yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
And then so you did that and you won.
And what happened after that?
Did you go on a run of a fewcontests?
No, after that, that's funny.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
We actually went on a boat trip out to Asu after that
.
But anyways, then I thoughtwell, you know what, if I've won
one, I was like why not do acouple more?
Because everyone won one.
I was like why not do a couplemore?
Because everyone's saying likeI did have pressure at the time
people were in the magazine.
There was magazine covers margo, next best thing out of
australia.
Um, if he did contest he'd bethe who's the next, kelly slater
and everything, yeah, comparedto that a little bit for a year

(59:58):
or two, like they're looking forsomeone, like obviously they
had powell and herring were thetwo big guys at the time, but I
was this x-factor guy that couldpotentially, you know, be
knocking on Kelly's door, sortof thing, but and it did feel
like a little bit of pressure atthe time to do that.
I did go to Europe after thatand tried to do some of the QS

(01:00:19):
events, and it was literally in.
I remember Pantin in Portugal,or even another event in Zaraus,
I think it was in.
Spain and it was like literallyone foot, like the cruddiest,
smallest waves, and there was nopriority back then in heights
and there's no keyhole to slipout behind people.

(01:00:40):
It was like, how do you even?
And everyone was so hungry andI actually went to Brazil that
same year and just didn't getthrough any heat and just got
completely smoked and just, andI wasn't because I wasn't a
competitive guy, I wasn't reallyhanging with the guys that much
.
I felt a little bit isolated, abit travelling at the time, but

(01:01:03):
I just, yeah, at the end of theday I was just like, oh my god,
I remember the one event inBrazil, at Recife, getting
absolutely smoked and just Ithink yeah, I cried yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I was like I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
And then, and then I went back to Bill and went I
don't think I want to do thegame.
They said what were youthinking?
Anyway, that's how it's liketrue, what, what was I thinking?
And it was cool and I went backto free surfing.
But but how cool is to havethat opportunity.
100%.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
I've said this before .
I was like I'm glad I did havea go.
It could have taken a couple ofyears, maybe I might have, you
know, worked it out, but Ididn't make it and I can live
with that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I know I tried, you know yeah 100%, Because now I
can go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
yeah, anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
That is great yeah yeah, I was wondering about that
.
I remember that and I rememberI was I think I was literally at
the same contests as a littlekid, because I got an early
start at some of those contestsand did all right in a couple
qs's.
That got me into exactly thatin recife, in brazil.
Yeah and I lost there tooexactly we were probably crying

(01:02:04):
in our hotel rooms, a couple offloors down from each other.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
You might have been a year or two later.
Do you reckon it was the sameyear?

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
It was somewhere around then it was somewhere
around 96, 97.
I was 16, 17, and I was dippingmy toe in that pool and feeling
it out too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
But it was like honestly winning a heat or
whatever.
It's a really cool feeling,it's an amazing feeling, but
it's not.
Surfing is so much more thancompeting, you know.
There's so many but it's allgood to those who do compete and
I actually do enjoy watchingthe competitive surfing of today
every now and then.
There's no right or wrong, butyou know we surf because we love

(01:02:42):
it at the end of the day andit's like an open canvas and you
get to do what you want and,yeah, super cool.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
I was wondering if there was ever much I don't know
thinking behind the boards youwere using or the surfing in
general that you were doing inthose early 2000s in Hawaii
where you were surfing biggerwaves, like they were four-foot
beachies at tallows.
So I'll paint the picture iswe're all in Hawaii where you
were surfing bigger waves likethey were four-foot beachies at
tallows.
So I'll paint.
The picture is we're all inHawaii every winter and you know

(01:03:12):
a lot of us were staying inlittle Johnny Theodore rat pit
at the back of sunset and, justyou know, living on cami's
muffins and instant noodles.
Well, I was living up, I waseating ice cream yeah, so you
were, but usually you were overat Hullyeva with Kribby yeah
that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Staying over at.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Hullyeva, end of town , surfing Hullyeva all the time
and I remember being a14-year-old 1994 or 5 it was and
I remember the first time Isurfed Sunset Beach I powered
out with Parco Dean Morrison andrabbit bartholomew and you and

(01:03:49):
you went out and you went leftand then you went straight up
and did like one of your brendanbackhand 12 o'clock turns on
like what seemed to me like afreaking 20 foot wave.
It was probably like 10, 12foot west peak, you know, and
the left and you would hang inthat little zone over there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
I used to love hanging deep, I know and I saw
you do that and again just blewmy mind.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
I'm like what the fuck?
I didn't even know you could goleft at sunset and you just
went upside down, pulled outquickly before you hit the
boneyard zone and paddle backout dry hair and you're just
blowing my mind.
Then we'd see you at halevadoing like grab rail airs on
like 710s or 760s.
You were surfing these biggerwaves like they were a four-foot

(01:04:33):
wedge at tallows.
Where did that come from foryou?
Was there anyone who wasshowing you how to do that kind
of thing?
Or was that again just sort ofyou being you in your own sort
of surf bubble in your minddoing your thing?

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
It's a bit of both.
I was fortunate enough at thattime I had Morris Cole made a
lot of my surfboards so I had,you know, he was shaping a lot
of boards, a lot of guns at thetime.
He was a really you know aconic gun shaper.
And I'd get a quiver of reallylong boards.
And so I remember, on a smallerday taking out a longer board,

(01:05:10):
obviously just to cruise andjust try and surf that, and then
you know, just a six foot dayI'd ride a 710 or an 80 or
something and then you get on aseven foot or a 72 and it feels
like a short board.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
So I just always, but I just felt like it was around
with boards like that, yeah yeah, a fair bit.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
So I loved um when it was yeah, but I just had a
thing for that longer rail line.
I think it suited my surfing alittle bit, but yeah, I loved
riding um.
Yeah, two bigger board for alittle period of time, then
doing that swap over sort ofthing, yeah when the waves were
smaller, you'd still end upriding a bigger board than what

(01:05:49):
most people are riding, but itwas because the day before I was
riding a foot longer Like, notjust inches, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Like a whole different.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
yeah, and then, I don't know, after a period of
time, six sevens was my magicnumber, I thought as a board.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Over there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Yeah, and then it ended up being my favourite as
soon as the waves got over sixfoot, I loved riding a six-seven
.
It was just my go-to.
I just think it was just a railline of a six-seven or
something, I don't know.
And then I loved six-tens, butthen, I don't know, I just loved
it.
It just felt like it suited mysurfing that sort of longer
board.
But yeah, I don't know, just inthe bigger ways it felt like.

(01:06:28):
I just felt like was the rightthing to do yeah, yeah.
There's nothing worse thanriding a big wave on a board
that feels like it's going tosketch off the bottom.
I just love like to me it wasthe ultimate feeling is driving
on a big wave and knowing yourboard's going to hold in, so I
was always looking for that,yeah yeah, yeah, cool, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
So I think we've surf nerded out enough let's bird
nerd now, so you've always hadthis interest in the, the bird
realm, which comes from yourfamily trips.
I remember you talking abouthow your parents would take you
on trips on the road, perhaps asa kid in oz and doing some bird
watching.

(01:07:06):
How much of that do you reckonhas like spilled into your
personality and your life?
Because I remember as a kidseeing you mention that every
now and again not a lot, whenwe're in those surfing circles
and stuff, but you talk aboutbirds every now and again and I
personally was inspired by thatbecause I was like how cool is

(01:07:30):
this?
You've got an other interestthan just being a full surf rat,
yeah, and just now, by beingout on the deck and seeing how
much that lights you up.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Yeah, I'm just curious about it, like where
that comes from and then how,yeah, how it ties into your life
when I was young I think I was12, 13 my parents traveled
around us, did massive roadtrips back in the day and take
us out of school and just throwus in the back of the car and,
would you know, we went to w way, went to the northern territory

(01:08:01):
on these separate trips, likenorthern queensland.
I remember one of the trips Iwas like, oh my god, I was
taking away of the trips.
I was like, oh my God, I wastaking away from the surf.
I remember I was just freakingout just when surfing was
becoming such a special thing inyour life, but it ended up
being one of the bestexperiences to having that
complete opposite thing tosurfing.
Dad threw a bird book in theback like a native Australian

(01:08:24):
bird book in the back of the carand I remember looking at it
and then seeing a bird, thatwhich I'd never seen at home
before, and then just and thenlooking up, went, oh my god,
there it is.
And it's sort of like, oh, it'sonly found in this certain area
and it's like, oh, that's sortof cool.
And then I because you're inthe back of the car obviously no
phones and any of that sort ofstuff you had nothing to do but
look at this bird book and Ijust started memorising all the

(01:08:46):
birds in the book because theyhad the pictures, obviously, and
it just at that age everythingjust stuck in my brain and glued
and I knew the birds just wereembedded in my brain, sort of
thing.
But, I remember getting a penand I'd see that bird and I'd
put a little cross next to thebird book and I'd be like, wow,
how cool is this.
And my dad was into like taking, you know, a bit of photography

(01:09:09):
on the trips.
And then he'd I'd go with dadand we'd like he'd like take
some bird photos and I'd be likeso stoked on seeing these
beautiful little creatures.
But after the trip I remembercoming home and then just that
bird addiction thing didn't goaway.
I was just like yeah, I wasinterested to know what sort of
birds were in my backyardthey're not just in the out in
the australian bush, but um,yeah, it stuck with me for years

(01:09:29):
and I just had this naturalthing in my head where I go oh,
that's a such and such like.
I just knew it just issomething that I had this little
special gift with birds.
But I, you know, lost interestover the years growing up or
whatnot.
But it's funny, it came backinto my life.
My wife Lorena now she sort ofcomes from a similar sort of

(01:09:50):
background family and she'sactually into that sort of thing
as well look at bushwalking andlooking at birds.
So we sort of got back into ittogether of something that we
did in our use and we're justit's a fun thing to do as a
couple and just have somethingto do.
It's completely opposite tosurfing and it's just a fun
thing to do as a couple and just, uh, have something to do.
That's completely opposite tosurfing and it's just a fun
hobby.
You know, it's a, it's justsomething that I really enjoy

(01:10:12):
doing yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
It makes me think of this conversation we had with
this guy, jeff lawton, and he'sa permaculture teacher, lives
out at the shannon in the landfrom here and he guided us
through creating a really greatbig food garden here on the land
a few years ago but, he spokeof pattern recognition and that
surfers, in his mind, would begreat food growers because we

(01:10:36):
have spent so many yearsstudying patterns of wave motion
and clouds and wind andeverything with surfing that
that when we come onto the landit doesn't take us very long to
fall into that sort of reallygood observational state where
we're looking at patterns in thelandscape.

(01:10:57):
And then I just think about,like the bird thing, like you
having your ears so tuned in tohear Bird noises.
Yeah, bird noises.
It makes me think of just thatcrossover between a surfing life
and bird observing and kind oftaking in your surroundings and
it's kind of cool just to hearthat they're both something
that's come and gone a littlebit in your life but right now

(01:11:20):
seem to like really light you upyeah, it's funny, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
it's true, isn't it?
Because it's that same thing.
It's like they, and I realizethey're the things that make me
happy at the end of the day.
So why stop, you know, witheither of those things surfing
and bird watching but yeah, nowthat's.
That's interesting, what youjust said, ned, about the, the
patterns and whatnot, but I justthink it's that nature thing.
Being in the surf, you knowyou're dealing with all the

(01:11:45):
elements and I guess birdwatching is the same thing too.
You know, when there's no windyou get to listen to the birds,
or just being out in nature ingeneral, and knowing what you
know certain trees, the birdslike, and it's just the seasonal
birds, everything's like.
Yeah, there's definitely, likeI said, the patterns yeah, what
are you grateful for?

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
when you think about where you are now and the way
we've just sort of backtrackedthrough the years and you know
ups and downs and challenges inlife and high highs, what makes
you feel grateful?

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, look, you know, what makes me feel grateful are
pretty much the simple thingsin life.
I think, just the basic thingsin life, like staring out the
window, taking in what theweather's doing, seeing what
birds on the tree, knowing whatthe surf's doing, just the
surroundings around you, beingaware of your surroundings and
just keeping it simple, becauselife's so busy and so hectic and

(01:12:43):
you can get so lost in yourhead.
But there's no need to.
I really am just grateful torealise that you don't have to
look into the future too far,you don't have to dwell on the
past, just live in the moment.
I'm just grateful that I sort offound those simple tools which
is really hard to find that Ican stop and just take in what's
happening.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Time is precious.
Thanks for spending some ofyours listening with us today.
Our editor this season is themulti-talented Ben Jake
Alexander.
The soundtrack was composed byShannon Sol Carroll, with
additional tunes by Dave and Ben.
We'll be continuing today'sconversation on Instagram, where
we're at waterpeoplepodcast andyou can subscribe to our very

(01:13:23):
infrequent newsletter to getbook recommendations, questions
we're pondering,behind-the-scenes glimpses into
recording the podcast and morevia our website,
waterpeoplepodcastcom.

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