Theory of Change (pt. 1): Waterwomen Camp Out

How does change happen when we, and the world, seem stuck in our ways? 

We’re curious about how change happens – and what people are doing on the ground, in our community, to create the causal pathways to shift social and environmental ideas, norms, and policy. 

Listen in for stories from the 2025 Waterwomen Camp Out put on by the NGO Surfers for Climate. 

The Waterwomen Camp is an annual weekend of women in nature coming together to help shape the future of surf culture and protect what we love. Through a series of workshops, wellness, connection and celebration we focus on educating and empowering women to own their place in and out of the water.

We hear from a range of attendees - from twenty to seventy-somethings. From those new to environmental work, to those five or more decades into their activism. These are stories about women seeing needs in their community and rising to meet them – from climate policy, to first aid, cultural reconciliation, right to the hands-on nitty gritty of cleaning our local river water, so the waterways, and the surfspots that catch them, stay clean and healthy – so we can, too.

One thing we know for sure about cultural change: it doesn't happen alone. We need each other, and we need strong communities. 

This episode is part of a two part mini-series exploring theories of change. Later this year, Dave will take us to a local River Festival involved in revitalising waterways. 

Thanks to Caitlin Fine, Nidala Barker,  Zoe White, Lucy Ewing, Courtney Miller, Aunty Lois Cook, Emjay Freeman, Kate McMahon, Tilly Hiscock, Stella, Emily, Britney, Dianne Tucker, Aunty Leila, and everyone who shared stories at the Waterwomen Camp Out 2025. 

Send us a text

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Listen with Lauren L. Hill & Dave Rastovich

Sound + Video Engineer: Ben J Alexander

Theme song: Shannon Sol Carroll

Additional music by Kai Mcgilvray + Ben J Alexander

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The people in power gain power from separating us,
from keeping us all fragmented.
If we're acting in isolation,then none of us ever have the
numbers or the power to actuallychange the system.
There's a lot of fear orprejudice, I think, and bias
across generations that stops usfrom acting together and that's

(00:20):
actually maximized andexploited by the people in power
and the fossil fuel industry.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to Water People, a podcast about the
aquatic experiences that shapewho we become back on land.
I'm your host, lauren Hill,joined by my partner, dave
Rastovich.
Here we get to talk story withsome of the most interesting and
adept water folk on the planetand adept water folk on the
planet.
We acknowledge the BundjalungNation, the traditional

(00:49):
custodians of the land andwaters where we work and play.
We've cared for this seacountry for tens of thousands of
years.
Respect and gratitude to allFirst Nations people, including
elders, past, present andemerging.
Today's episode is part of amini mini series we're running
this year about theories ofchange.
We're curious about how changehappens and what people are

(01:11):
doing on the ground in our owncommunity to create causal
pathways to shift social andenvironmental ideas, norms and
policy.
Today we're off to this reallygreat event called the Water
Women Campout, put on by the NGOSurfers for Climate.
This is the second year they'vebeen running and I wanted you
to come along as a reminder ofthe value of getting out into
your community and just showingup.

(01:32):
Time and attention are amongstour most valuable resources.
There are so many thingscompeting for them and I know it
can be really easy to get stuckin the logic of what difference
does it make if I go or not?
And also the routine ofeveryday life.
It's busy, life is full, butone thing we know for sure about
change is that it doesn'thappen alone.
We need each other and wereally need strong communities.

(01:55):
Today we're heading out to theWater Women Campout and in a few
weeks time Dave will be takingus along to a local river
festival centered aroundcleaning up waterways.
So the Water Women Campout is anannual weekend of women in
nature coming together to helpshape the future of surf culture
in particular and to work onprotecting what we love.
I hope you'll listen along aswe chat with women from their

(02:18):
20s into their 70s, young womenwho are at the beginning of
finding their modality ofactivism, to women who have been
working in various communityspaces for four or five decades.
I love the Water Women Campoutfor the way that it organizes a
weekend of events around notonly the head but also the heart
and the hands, really engagingthe whole person and

(02:38):
prioritizing action, but alsorest and connection, especially
to country and to the people whohave cared for these spaces for
many, many generations beforeus, especially First Nations
people, bundjalung people inparticular in this case.
So these are stories aboutwomen seeing needs in their
community and rising to meetthem.

(02:59):
From climate policy to firstaid, right to the hands-on
nitty-gritty of cleaning ourlocal river water.
So waterways and the surf spotsthat catch them stay clean and
healthy, so we can too.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
These practices and these protocols are the
protocols of this country.
By virtue of existing on thiscountry, you are of this country
.
When we breathe in, we breathein oxygen gifted to us by leaf
and soil.
By breathing out, we return thegift of carbon dioxide, which
the oceans suck up and turn intokelp forests for fish to have

(03:38):
homes.
Whether or not we think webelong is irrelevant, because we
do.
And at our deepest molecularcore and at our deepest
molecular core, at our deepestspiritual core, the law of this
land is the law that governs us,and to engage in it is to
belong to it, is to acceptresponsibility for it.

(03:58):
And there is so much power inthat.
And there is also so much powerin that.
And there is also so much grief.
There is so much pain.
There is so much pain for FirstNations people.
There is so much pain forpeople who came with the First
Fleets.
There is so much confusion andpain and dissociation for people
who've just arrived here.
That grief can be separation orit can be our turning point.

(04:22):
It can be our way to breakthrough the liars of division
and remove our consent from thatfalse story of separation.
And there was a day where I wasat a very special place for my
family.
This is in the kimberley, thisis on java java country.
There was a very, very largesand dune called when I want,
and at one of our place of whenI want, it's this big, big sand

(04:43):
dune, like massive, and at thevery top of this sand dune is
heaps of shells, like cockleshells and oyster shells, and
when you walk on it it soundslike you're walking on the ocean
floor, because it's just likebecause you're walking on all
those shells.
That's a midden, that's aliving site, from where our old
people used to sit and feast.

(05:04):
That's a minute.
That's a living site from whereour old people used to sit and
feast.
This sand dune faces abeautiful bay of perfectly flat,
crystal clear water with a tidethat rises nine metres every
day and pulls out nine metresevery day.
When the water pulls out,you've got this beautiful silver
kind of grey mud flap in frontof you.

(05:24):
When the water rushes in, itjust turns into this turquoise
bowl and the water wraps inright at the hill, right at the
foot of the Winawile Sand Dune,and wraps back around it and
fills into the salt flats and itturns into this glassy bowl
that looks like a mirror andthere's all these beautiful
herrings and birds flying overit and all these beautiful fish

(05:45):
you birds flying over it and allthese beautiful fish, you can
see them just jumping out of thewater, these thick mud crabs,
these just mangroves, sometimescrocodiles, but that's okay.
And at the foot of that sanddune, of watching this landscape
change every day, twice a day,going from blue bowl toflat, at
the foot of that sand dune isthe bones of our old people from

(06:07):
millennia, the bones of our oldpeople sitting at the bottom of
the sand dunes that theirdescendants have come for
generations upon generations toenjoy the feasts and gifts of
the creek.
And one day I was sitting at thetop of Winawang with my dad and
we'd just gotten a deliciousmud crab, so we were enjoying
that.
I made a little fire and wewere eating some little whiting.

(06:28):
She'd never had it.
I strongly recommend it'sdelicious.
And it just occurred to me, thisfull-body realisation, that I
didn't know either of the JabbaJabba words for crab or for
whiting, and I burst into tearsbecause I just thought I have
dishonoured my old people.
I can't even speak to them in alanguage that they understand.

(06:51):
How is that possible?
It was moments ago that theywere here in the scale of the
earth, and I've forgotten.
And I have the immenseprivilege of being born into a
really culturally staunch family, with my auntie rewriting a
dictionary of juggling Yet Ididn't know the words, and that
grief was just all-encompassing.
I just was riddled withresentment for my father's

(07:14):
father, who came from Scotland,and I was like how dare they?
And it was like my very DNA wasvibrating at this internal
violence.
And as I was going through thisprocess, I turned to my dad in
tears, just sobbing, you know,like, and he just looks at me
and says what's going on?
And I was like well, this iswhat's going on, and I don't

(07:35):
even remember the words.
He looks at me dead square inthe face and he bursts out
laughing, which is definitelythe reaction that 14-year-old me
wanted, laughing, which isdefinitely the reaction that
14-year-old me wanted.
And he just said to me like whyare you trying to think with
your head?
Like those stories, those songs, they're in your flesh and
they're in your bones.
So this song, flesh and Bone,is the flesh of the cockle shell

(07:57):
and the bones of my old people.
It's my flesh and my bones that, clunkily and with great
ridicule, try to write newthings, try to sing the wrong
songs, try to remember wordsthat feel clunky in my mouth and
learn a language that I wasn'tbrought up speaking Flesh and

(08:17):
bone.
So when I'm singing the song, Ijust really want to honour my
old people and also all your oldpeople that exist in your flesh
and in your bones.

Speaker 5 (08:32):
All life ever learned can be sung in a few words A
complex simplicity gifted lifeby land and sea.
My ancestors stand up behind me, tell the story of what it took

(08:59):
to make me a gift of flesh andbone and a heart to feel it all,
and I will not dishonor that.
I stand my part to play, evenwhen I am afraid, and I

(09:33):
understand it now.
I don't have to have answers.
I'm allowed to make mistakes.
Mama, I hope you hear my voiceinto your ocean, the songs we

(09:54):
sing to you.
We are remembering, remembering.
Yes, boru, I hope you hear myvoice into your stanchions, the
songs we sing to you, for we areremembering, yes, we are

(10:26):
remembering.
Yes, we are remembering, yes,we are remembering, we are

(10:49):
remembering.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'm here with Caitlin Fine.
She's the COO for Surfers forClimate.
Katie, how did this event comeabout?
The Water Women Campout wewanted to do it for two reasons.

Speaker 7 (11:12):
The first motivation was to really empower and engage
women to be able to shift theculture of surfing.
I think surfing can kind of bea bit of a selfish sport.
We've all been in the lineupwhere a really good set comes
through and there's someone onthe wave and you're like, please
fall off so I can get this wave.

Speaker 8 (11:31):
We're all guilty of it.

Speaker 7 (11:32):
And it's also not always a welcome space for women
, and not even just for womendepends on what surf craft you
are.
So to create care andprotection for the ocean, I
think we really need to focus onshifting the surf culture.
So that was one motivation, andthe second was just to engage
our core audience.
It's really interesting becausesurfing is a male-dominated

(11:53):
sport, but at Surfers forClimate, the majority of our
audience are women.
So it's the women who areshowing up, the women who are
volunteering, hosting car parkcinema nights for us, trivia
nights for us, coming to ouractivations.
So how do we engage theseincredible women to dive deeper
into the journey and feelempowered that they can make

(12:14):
change and they can be theleaders?

Speaker 2 (12:16):
What role does the Water Women Camp Out play in
welcoming people, womenspecifically, along the journey
of climate activism?

Speaker 7 (12:26):
When we started the Water Women's Campout.
We have a few differentsignature programs with Surface
for Climate and our whole theoryof change is we want to have
different takeoff points onpeople's journey into protecting
their country, protecting theenvironment, their journey into
learning about climate change,advocating to protect the ocean

(12:46):
and what they love, and becauseat Surfers for Climate, of
course, everything is related tosurfing.
So we're like OK, no matterwhat craft you surfed or your
ability, your takeoff points aregoing to be different.
So maybe you are anenvironmental scientist and you
are so deep in this, but you'relike how can I engage on a
political level and be reallystrategic in my advocacy?

(13:09):
So that's where we meet them.
Maybe someone's new on theirjourney, they just started
surfing and they love the oceanand they're like what can I do?
How can I learn more?
So we really want to welcomeall stages of people, wherever
they're at, at their surfingjourney or their environmental
advocacy journey.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
What do surfers need to know about the state of
climate right now?
That is a really big question.

Speaker 7 (13:34):
We are absolutely at a critical point.
The ocean is at boiling pointand we're seeing more and more
extreme weather events.
You know, here in the NorthernRivers the ocean is so dirty
still the erosion is the worst.
I've seen it the 15 years I'velived in the Northern Rivers.
Even yesterday we had abeautiful water ceremony with

(13:57):
Auntie Lois Cook and there wasso much foam and plastic on the
beach.
Our ocean's sick and we need toact now.
We need to act fast and itaffects all of us, but
particularly surfers.
Even look at the algae in SouthAustralia right now.
Surfers are getting really sick.
The mass kills of the marineenvironment are just devastating

(14:17):
and that's because the water'sso warm.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
We're seeing mass marine heat waves, coral
bleaching and, as surfers, we'reseeing mass marine heat waves,
coral bleaching and, as surfers,we're witnessing that every day
.
What role does community playin an event like this and being
part of the puzzle to addressour climate crisis?

Speaker 7 (14:35):
Collectively, we have the power.
There are 2.5 million surfersin Australia and 85% of
Australians live within 50kilometres of the coastline.
So imagine if we all gottogether as one community to
protect the ocean.
We can be a powerful force forchange, One of my core reasons
for starting the Water Women'sCamp Out.

(14:57):
Wella did an interesting studya couple of years ago that
showed women in leadershippositions, whatever career they
work, whatever industry they'rein, leads to greater
environmental protection, andthat makes me so proud.
It's really the women who areshowing up to protect the
environment.

Speaker 9 (15:18):
I'm Coco Miller and I am 40 and I live in Byron Bay,
so I've been involved in Surfersfor Climate for a couple of
years now.
The one thing that's been areal standout over the weekend
is that everyone has theirdifferent way of activating and
whether it is as simple as takethree pieces of plastic on the
beach every time you go, oryou're a practical person, you

(15:39):
want to make stuff you're makingoyster cages or you have time
to write a letter to your MPabout a campaign, or you can
volunteer whichever and, however, or you're a doctor or a lawyer
, like there is.
For everyone there's a way in,and I think sometimes it's like
being given permission as awoman to just take that and do.
It sounds maybe a bit cliched,but it's really important to say

(16:00):
and do out loud and encourageothers because, yeah, it takes a
whole village now we'll hearfrom zoe white.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
Zoe is a marine scientist and project manager
for ozfish unlimited.
She is the president of therichmond river keeper, a dive
instructor, surfer, free diverand all-around water woman who
led a workshop that she's goingto tell us a little bit more
about.

Speaker 10 (16:29):
So myself and my fellow colleagues ran a
shellfish restoration workshop.
So we all work for anorganization called Ozfish, and
Ozfish works on fish habitatrestoration projects, so
essentially any areas in ourwaterways which are crucial for

(16:50):
fish to be able to survive, forthem to go and get food from,
for them to be able to breed,have habitat, do all of the
things that they need to do.
So there's a few key sort ofhabitats that we work on, but
oyster reefs and shellfish reefsare one of the biggest and most
important ones.
So what we did for our workshopis, first of all, we just

(17:13):
brought in the connection as towhy I actually wanted to run
that at the Surfers for Climateweekend and, as I thought about
it, it just made a lot of senseand it kind of connected me back
to my why and how I actuallygot involved with doing river
restoration work in the firstplace, which actually came out
of the 22 floods that weexperienced here in the Northern

(17:36):
Rivers, which left the waterjust in an absolutely putrid
state for an insanely long time.
I think it was like almost fivemonths or something that I spent
out of the water, and at thatpoint in time I was also working
for the local council and I wasworking on recovery, work which

(17:57):
was confronting in itself.
But I just kind of got down intothis dark place and I was like,
why am I so unhappy?
And it took me so long torealise that it was because I'd
spent so much time out of thewater as well as everything else
that was happening.
So, even though I'd alreadybeen in that sort of marine
science space doing bits andpieces, it connected me a lot

(18:19):
more with okay, well, we've gota lot of issues coming out of
our rivers here and there'sactually a lot of tangible
solutions and a lot of thingsthat can be done on land and
with people and with thecommunity.
So maybe this is my way to makesure that I don't have that
long out of the water again.
And you know, I'm sure that somany people like me were facing

(18:41):
the same thing where, yeah, it'sjust you know, all of us, yeah,
all of us who live in the areayeah.
So it was nice to sort ofrealize that's where the
workshop idea sort of came from,because I wanted to really
connect the ocean loving peopleand help them understand why our
rivers are so important.

(19:01):
I think quite a few people do,but sometimes there is that sort
of loss of connection and youknow, here, especially in the
Northern rivers where we have somany rivers, we really do need
to have those communities ofocean people and river people
merging if we're going to make abig impact.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, that's so interesting and good on you for
taking action, because not allof us follow those hunches you
did, and look at the beautifulwork that has spawned out of you
choosing to take action.
I'm curious about why you choseto build these oyster reef
construction pieces and how theybenefit local waterways.

Speaker 10 (19:36):
So I definitely wanted to do something really
hands-on and tangible.
I was lucky enough to also goto the first water women's camp
out last year and I felt like Ireally got a kick out of the
hands-on things that we could dolast time and just mixing it up
with some of the morereflective sort of things that
are happening throughout theweekend.
So I wanted to providesomething that, yeah, could get

(19:58):
everybody involved physicallyand also to be able to feel like
they're giving back and and youknow, we're not just sitting
there talking about all of theseconfronting issues of how many
things are going wrong andfeeling hopeless, whereas when
we actually get to do thingslike building these oyster
baskets, you're getting thecommunity involved and you

(20:21):
actually get to be a part of thesolution.
So I really wanted to be ableto bring that to the weekend and
it's also just super fun.
One of the parts of buildingthem is you've got it's pretty
much like a little staple gunthing, but it joins all of the
little bits of metal togetherand I just noticed every person
that I handed over that and whenthey did that part, they were

(20:43):
like, wow, this is fun and thisis really satisfying and there's
bits of it as well, whereyou've got to, you know, like
hammer in the metal, and I justfeel like I could tell that
everybody was feeling superempowered and just enjoying that
hands on element, which isexactly what we wanted.
But also it just connected backperfectly because what we've
now built out of that workshopis actually going to be going

(21:05):
right around the corner fromwhere the weekend was held into
the Richmond River and hopefullyhelp to be a part of clearing
up the river system and helpingto fix the ecosystem around it
as well, so that hopefully thesurf can be cleaner for longer.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
That's so awesome.
Can you speak a little bit tothe explanation of what the
baskets do once they're in thewater?

Speaker 10 (21:29):
So what we built is essentially what's called a
robust oyster basket.
So it's a small metal cage andwe filled it up with old oyster
shell that was collected fromour local river systems and from
the Brunswick River as well.
And what's going to happen iswhen we actually go and deploy
them back into the waterway,then we're providing a structure

(21:50):
for the baby oysters, which iscalled the spat, to actually
have something to come andsettle on.
So they like settling on theold shell, so they'll be
attracted to that, and then it'sgoing to help to form new
oyster reefs.
And that process just continuesyear after year when the babies
come in and they go on the.
So they'll be attracted to thatand then it's going to help to
form new oyster reefs.
And that process just continuesyear after year when the babies
come in and they go on the oldshells.
And what happens with thesemetal baskets and these ROBS,

(22:14):
which is our acronym for them,is that after a few years the
metal around the outside willdegrade and by that point
oysters are clumping organismsand they'll have started to form
their own reef again and fromthat it's just going to keep
building with those babies yearafter year, so you're getting
more oysters back in the river,which is great, but what's also

(22:34):
happening with that is you'reattracting all sorts of other
organisms into that area.
They are essential for fishfood and there's all of the
little crustaceans and othermollusks that live inside them.
So fish absolutely love thestructures.
But the most important thingabout our oyster reefs is that
they actually help to filterthrough the water.

(22:55):
So when you've got a lot ofpollutants and issues in the
waterway, they are an ecosystemengineer.
They're like our littlesuperhero and they're filter
feeders.
So they actually bring in awhole bunch of water to get
their food source and in thatprocess it does pick up things
like nitrogen and otherpollutants in the water and it
will actually take it into itstissues and structure.

(23:15):
So I feel bad for them thatthey take into these pollutants,
but in that form they actuallyhelp to improve water quality.
So the key stat which alwaysshocks people is how much water
they actually filter through ina day.
So it's actually around the 150litres mark, which is insane,
especially when you're justthinking about your drink bottle

(23:37):
size, and that's 150 times thatand that's just one large
oyster.
So when you've got these reefs,which have hundreds thousands
on them, then they're doing anincredible job of really
improving that water quality.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
What are you taking away from the Water Women Camp
Out this year?

Speaker 10 (23:53):
My big takeaway is that I need to spend more time
enjoying what I love and whatI'm fighting to protect.
I do feel like I am somebodythat constantly gets caught up
in do more, do more.
There's so much to do.
Just got to rush, rush, rush.
If we're going to fix theproblem, and there were just so

(24:13):
many bits and pieces to take outof the weekend which constantly
made me reflect and go.
Actually, I'm going to be ableto do this better and for longer
If I slow down.
I go diving, I go surfing whenI need to to go.
This is what I'm doing it for.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Will you please tell me your name, your age and where
you've come from to be heretoday?

Speaker 11 (24:38):
My name is Kate McMahon, I'm 54 and I travel
from Pottsville today.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Can you tell me about your professional role and how
it relates to the water room andcamp out?

Speaker 11 (24:48):
Well, I've been involved in the surfing industry
for about 25 years, started outin magazines and then still
writing for magazines, alwayscreative with agencies and
things like that, and thenbranched away from surfing a
little bit, but surfing's alwaysbeen the root of my passions
and now I'm surfing Australia'sNational Integrity Manager, so a
very purposeful role thatdefinitely ties back to what

(25:09):
we're trying to do here at thisWater.
Women's Campout.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
What made you come this weekend.

Speaker 11 (25:13):
I recently moved to the area only about a year and a
half ago and I've got a groupof really strong girlfriends,
but I just felt that I needed toeven branch out to more of my
tribe and more of herpist-ledconnection with other women.
I was really craving that, andso I came here alone, and I came
here to connect and makefriends, and I did exactly that.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
It was beautiful.
That's awesome.
Will you speak a little bit,Kate, to Surfing Australia's
growing engagement with womenand girls.

Speaker 11 (25:43):
So newly joined to Surfing Australia.
I'm really stoked at theintention that they're putting
behind women's participation andthe growth of encouraging women
from the grassroots all the waythrough to Olympians, because I
think it's really importantthat there's not a default to
think of surfing as a man'ssport, which I feel that from my

(26:04):
experience of growing up aroundsurfing from the 80s, 90s,
early 2000s it was a realdefault, and the equality for
women in surfing goes way beyondpay parity, way beyond pay
parity.
There's so many more nuances tothat and I think it's just
about stripping away how it wasand understanding that women
have a place in there too, andhow we see surfing and how we

(26:27):
see the lifestyle and how we seehow we want behavior.
It could be different and so,if it is, let's explore that,
can you?

Speaker 2 (26:33):
speak to some of those inequities for people who
are listening, who feel likemaybe there is gender parity.
This is a redundantconversation.
What do you have to say to that?

Speaker 11 (26:44):
Yeah, firstly, I'd like to really interrogate and
explore and be curious about theconcept of one day to decide a
world champion.
And let's just ask the questiondo we think that's based on a
female endocrine system?
That's just one example.
I personally don't think it isas exciting as that was.
We are so up and down with ourhormones and this isn't

(27:08):
something to be eye-rolled aboutand it's not something to be
huffed about.
It's something to to embraceand actually go okay.
Is this fair?
Is this fair that someone in adifferent part of their cycle
because we've got superpowers atone end and we've got maybe
melting on the couch at theother right, and it's just maybe
it's a fairer process ifthere's a more even opportunity

(27:31):
throughout.
It's never going to be even,it's never going to be equal for
women against each other, evenin terms terms of that, but at
least a one day feels veryabrupt and it's an
acknowledgement that men's andwomen's bodies tend to be
different.
Yeah, isn't it, yeah, and justlet's get the.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's why we need female leaders on the decision
making hierarchy at the surfingindustry like you, I've been
involved in the surf industryfor a couple of decades and I've
seen a lot of things change andthe Water Women Campout is such
like a hopeful spark that maybea young surfing me couldn't
have imagined the joy of beingwith all women around surfing.

(28:07):
Is it like that for you?

Speaker 11 (28:09):
Oh, my goodness, I can't even imagine this.
Back when I was younger, I onlystarted surfing in my sort of
mid-20s-ish right, so I wasn'teven super young, but I was just
hungry and hunting for anyonethat would join me in that
endeavours.
And, to be honest, the tribe Ifound at that time were more
into it for the showing of itand the image of it, which is

(28:31):
fine as well, because it wasreally exciting time than
actually doing the thing, and soI wanted to do the thing and I
had no one to really do it in ameaningful way with.
So, yeah, this is like mindblowing.
The electricity that you feelwith the like-mindedness and the
wanting to make a better worldis pretty inspiring.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Lucy, you're the organizer and the brain mother
of this event.
Can you tell me about why thisevent exists?

Speaker 12 (29:02):
I feel like, even though I am the organizer, the
event and this community ofwater women already existed and
feels like it needed a place togather or wanted a place to
gather and I've just been luckyenough to be the person that is
holding that space but it reallyfeels like its own organism

(29:22):
that has all of its own energyand creativity and I'm just
trying to keep up with all ofthat.
But I was really inspired by anevent that a really good friend
put on, which which is calledSwellness, and it was put on by
Jed and Vaughn, who run Ain'tthat Swell?
And they hosted it down onDunguddy country, where I was
living at the time, and it feltlike a different kind of event

(29:46):
to anything that I'd been tobefore, and what I loved about
it is that it married togetherthe intersection of everything
we love about surfing and surfculture and brought together
people who are adventurous andlove being in nature and love
connecting to each other in acampsite and are also really
wanting to put a lot of theirenergy into bettering themselves

(30:09):
or the people around them orthe planet.
And Swellness was that it was agroup of 100 people and we came
together and we all sharesimilar interests and there were
workshops and some groupactivities, but then it also was
just a celebration ofeverything that's in that
culture.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
What is the value, in the world that we live in right
now, of coming together inperson?
How is it different to betogether on country,
face-to-face, and not just becommunicating through a digital
space?

Speaker 12 (30:42):
I think there's so much that happens in the spaces
between, and it's in thosemoments of making a cup of tea
with someone or sitting next tosomeone and weaving or opening
up in a way that's reallyvulnerable, that we're able to
because we feel safe to.
And there's gatheringshappening all over the world.

(31:02):
There's people singing anddancing and connecting and
that's how we've always livedand I feel like, after a few
years of being locked indoorsand social media and technology
in general, there's a realcraving for community and
connection and, no matter what'shappening in the outside world,

(31:24):
no matter how hard things are,if we come together and we have
that connection and community,then we have everything that we
could ever need.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
What have you seen emerge from this gathering in
the past and also what are youseeing crystallize this year?

Speaker 12 (31:40):
I'm seeing women in my community who already
empowered, taking steps to leaninto places that they may not
have lent into in the past, andthat is I'm seeing that in so
many different ways.
Right now, behind us is one ofmy really good friends, emma,
who is a nurse running theemergency department in Kempsey

(32:02):
Hospital and she's running aocean survival skills workshop,
which she created for the waterwomen camp out last year.

Speaker 6 (32:10):
So by having this space and this platform for
people to step into and seeingpeople step up to it, I'm Emma,
I'm 34 and I actually came fromRed Bluff, wa, to be here today,
but I do live in Crescent Headcurrently.
Today I ran an ocean watersurvival program.

(32:31):
I've been working as a nursefor 10 years and I've been in
the water, surfing, freediving,having fun for 20 years.
I guess it's just a blend ofall the things I like.
It's actually Katie and Lucythat asked me to be a part of
this and thanks to them, I'mstepping a little bit out of my
lane and stepping into somethingthat I actually really am
excited by and, yeah, I feellike I can sort of bridge the
gap between health professionalsand ocean lovers.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
That's awesome and you do it so well.
What's one skill we could allinvest a little time in to
create a safer beach, ocean,coastal community.

Speaker 6 (33:04):
I would say get really comfortable with your own
breath and invest into afreediving course, because that,
for me, has helped me in allareas of life and I really can't
praise it enough.
So if you're comfortable inyour own breath, if you're the
patient or the helper, thenthat's still going to benefit
you.
So, getting really comfortablewith using your entire lung
capacity and controlling yourheart rate through your breath,

(33:26):
that's really helpful In thehigh pressure moments in life.
In and out of the water it'sreally helpful.
Another really helpful skill isobviously quality compressions,
because that's actuallymanually pumping the blood
around.
If you can do that well, thenthat's going to help the patient
through the whole journey.
When you say compressions, youmean CPR, cpr, yep, yep.
So yeah, one third of the chest, 100 to 120 beats per minute

(33:50):
Find that song.
That is that rate.
What is it for you?
Well, today we played a few ofthe classic pop songs, because
they get stuck into your headlike an earworm.
But I guess Saving a Life isglobally the song Staying Alive.
Right, staying Alive, that's it.
Yeah, I always do that.
I change the lyrics of songs soeasily.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
What were the other skills you went through?
I didn't get to stay.

Speaker 6 (34:17):
for the whole workshop.
We went through the algorithm,so the doctor's ABCD, and then I
just embedded a few of my funfacts that I've learned.
What's the algorithm I've neverheard of that the algorithm is
danger response, send for help,airway, breathing, compressions,
defibrillation and we use thatapproach because often in the
spicier moments in life, you'llforget everything you've ever

(34:38):
learnt in life and that's why wehave the algorithms, because
they're a bunch of protocolsembedded in a really simple way
that when things are hot, youcan go back to that.
So we started with danger, andthat was some rescue manoeuvres
and how to get people out of thewater, how to keep yourself
safe, how to approach asituation and actually reflect
on how you are entering a crisismoment, because that's really

(35:00):
important.
You often can bring chaos tothe chaos already and, yeah, we
went through how to hold anairway open, some of our own
breath work for the free divingthings and how to re-oxygenate
quickly, especially with asurfing focus and a free diving
focus.
We went through cardiaccompressions and also extensive
bleeding and we talked aboutdefibrillation and a bit of

(35:22):
brainwave stuff and epilepsy.
And then the environmentalfactors, such as like bites and
stings and other common issuesthat ocean lovers face, and a
few myth-busting things, likethe classics peeing on your
friends when you get stung.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Not a thing, not a thing?

Speaker 6 (35:36):
not a thing, unfortunately, but um, it's cute
hot water.
Hot water is the go-to.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, as hot as you can handle we had to learn that
the hard way when dave got hitby a stingray oh, stingrays are
10 out of 10 pain.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
It's a nasty one.
We didn't know it at the time.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Oh yeah, Good to know .

Speaker 6 (35:57):
Hot water.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, what is the most dangerous thing or threat
that you see from ocean goersLike what do you encounter the
most as someone who works in ED,unfortunately drowning.

Speaker 6 (36:09):
So in the last year there's been 323 people die from
drowning and it's a really hardone because you've got to be so
quick and attentive and this iswhy it's so helpful to give the
knowledge to the people who are, you know, potentially right
next to that person.
And yeah, once you end up witha bit of water in your lungs,
it's it's a very quick thing.
So first aid courses are reallyhelpful and that's why we do

(36:32):
them yearly to refresh yourknowledge, because it's a muscle
that you have to keep fit.
Hopefully some people can takewhat they've learned today and
share it to their friends andfamily and practice how to keep
an airway open and all thesethings.
And, yeah, hopefully we made ita little bit fun for it to
actually stick into people'sbrain.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
One of the really outstanding things about the
Water Women Weekend has been thebreadth of ages present.
One of the running themes isabout fostering
cross-generational communication.
Dr Krista Comer, professor,author and co-founder of the
Institute for Women Surfers,flew in from the US and she held
a workshop about how tocommunicate cross-generationally
, because it can be so difficultand sometimes it feels like

(37:14):
we're speaking differentlanguages when we're
communicating across generations, but these kinds of in-person
events allow for connection withpeople that we might not have
the opportunity to fosterconversation with otherwise.
So one of the big takeaways forme is about intergenerational
communication and creatingopportunities to connect with
like-minded people that are botholder and younger than myself,

(37:35):
and the kind of richness andresilience a movement can carry
when there's this breadth of notonly experience and wisdom, but
also creativity and energy.
These are gifts that bubble outof us, often in different
seasons of our lives.
Both are crucial to a healthyecosystem, fostering growth and
change.

Speaker 13 (37:56):
My name is Stella, I'm 25.
I've travelled from Wollongong,originally grew up in Sydney,
but, yeah, living in Wollongongat the moment.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
And why have you come to the Water Room and camp out
this weekend?

Speaker 13 (38:06):
I came here because I wanted to connect with women.
I came here last year and Ifound it such an incredible
space to be where you get to bearound just women for the first
time.
I mean, having come from afamily where I had three
brothers and spent so much timearound men, it's so amazing to

(38:27):
be in a women-majority space fora little while.
To be in a place that's sosurf-centred is fantastic.
You know, I get a little bit ofthat where I live, but to just
see people that are continuingto live their lives with surfing
, just as the thread that linkseverybody here, or water
experiences linking everybodyhere, because that's not really

(38:49):
that common In sort of thegreater society, you'll meet
lots of different people andyou'll have all these different
connections, but here we justall get to connect on surfing
and we get to have theseconversations that we have with
other you know, civilians.
I guess you could say, and youhave to like you'll talk in surf
idioms and whatever, and peoplejust don't understand you.
But here you can just talk andjust make noises and whatever

(39:10):
and people understand you.
So it's a spot where, yeah,this camp you just it's.
It's a beautiful place to cometo and connect with other people
and just shake thosefoundations of habit that we all
get stuck into, away from theocean, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
What do you get from being here in person that you
can't get through a digitalspace?

Speaker 13 (39:31):
I myself don't subscribe to a lot of digital
spaces, mostly because I have,in the past and throughout my
teenage years, been online a lotand I've just learned it's not
a space that is conducive to myhappiness.
You know, slowly beenunsubscribing to all the
different social medias and I'veremoved myself from Instagram
the big one, sort of over thepast like six months a year, and

(39:52):
while I definitely have mymoments of feeling that FOMO and
feel like I'm missing out andlike everyone around having an
amazing time or doing theseamazing things, I've had to
remove myself from that becauseI there's just all these other
little holes that I'll fall intoif I'm trying to like balance
that walk, and so, because I'vedone that, I do feel that more
loneliness and that on my littleisland and not knowing where

(40:13):
these other women are and I,then it impacts my ability to be
inspired and to be able to getthings done and to like continue
down that path that I reallylove being on, and so coming to
a place like this is just whatre-centers me.
Like I said, being in here inperson is so incredible because
it's a feeling that you can'tget through digital spaces at

(40:36):
all.
Like you may, you can seeeverything online, you can see
the images, you can hear thetalks, you can do all that stuff
, but just feeling what it'slike to be around people where
there's you know, women off inthe corner just doing some
stretches, there's childrenrunning around and always within
like a short you know shortdistance of a helpful hand.
There's quiet.

(40:56):
It's so calm and quiet herethat, like at any moment you can
hear the ocean and you can hearthe birds.
It's all the different feelingsthat you get that you just
can't get aside from being in aplace.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Beautifully said, Stella.
We live in a time where a lotof people feel like feminism is
no longer relevant.
It's not applicable.
What's the value of havingwomen-only women-centered spaces
, specifically within thecontext of surf culture, for you
as a young?

Speaker 13 (41:27):
person.
I get that there's backlashagainst saying well, we need to
be bringing the genders togetheror the groups together, or the
backgrounds together, and that'sthe goal in the end.
We want to be able to bringthese two people together, but
women and minority groups havehad so many years and so so much
time of not being givenopportunity, not being given a
voice, and so that means we wedo need to allocate this space

(41:50):
for women to get comfortableamongst speaking again, and we
need to get comfortable aboutsharing our ideas and admitting
our fears and talking about thecuriosities that we have linking
all of those things together.
And this space has to exist inorder for women to feel
comfortable enough and besupported to the degree where we

(42:11):
can advocate for ourselves, andwe need to be advocating for
ourselves in order to advocatefor each other.

Speaker 14 (42:18):
My name's Tilly, I'm 25 and I came from Mornington
Peninsula in Victoria, onBunurong land.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
And why did you come this weekend?

Speaker 14 (42:27):
I came last year.
I guess we haven't had theopportunity down in Victoria
particularly to have these kindof gatherings before last year.
Since last year there's beenthese amazing like Highline
Women's Surf Fest and SurfingVic also put on one, but I
hadn't had the opportunity.
Like where I come from, there'snot a whole lot of women in the
water, and so to have womenfrom all over the country in one

(42:48):
spot together sharing theirstories brought me here last
year and I guess it's the exactsame reason to be back here
again this year year and I guessit's the exact same reason to
be back here again this year.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
And how did last year land for you and how did it
change how you wanted to engagewith the weekend this year?

Speaker 14 (43:02):
Hugely, I guess I've had a huge year.
I ended up now I'm working forSurfers, for Climate, so, but
from yes, definitely, yeah.
So I hadn't realized before lastyear I feel like I'd had all
these feelings about how surfingand the environment was so
interlinked, but it's so likedichotomous.
In the community where I'm from, the surfers, generally

(43:26):
speaking, aren't particularlyenvironmentally inclined or
partaking any of those kind ofissues or actions down our way,
and to have that come together,particularly like with women
being the thread that binds thattogether here, was like such a
revelation for me, which wascool.
And also to know that there'sother people that felt the exact
same way I did, whereas I feltI had a few friends who felt the

(43:48):
same at home, but not like awhole community, and so I guess,
yeah, that changed everythingfor me with the work I do now
and the community that I'm apart of at home now, which is
like growing.
I think there's like three anda half thousand members that are
part of, like the women's surfcrew down there, which is
massive, like I didn't have that, didn't see it growing up, and

(44:09):
so, yeah, to be more involved inthat has been amazing.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
A lot of people now talk about feminism as
irrelevant and not reallynecessary anymore.
Do you feel that way as a youngperson?

Speaker 14 (44:23):
Not at all.
Listening to Krista speak, andparticularly with Beck last year
, I think it's more relevantthan ever.
In the world that we're facingevery day, particularly overseas
, it's easy for me as a youngwhite woman to think that I've
got it pretty okay and to notfeel the need to understand that

(44:43):
that's not the same for otherpeople.
But I've got so many people,even in my community at home,
which is typically very whiteand conservative, but we've got
like quite a large First Nationspopulation that are totally
discriminated against because ofour council's policies and all
of these different things athome and obviously that largely
impacts women in thosecommunities with access to

(45:04):
health care and all, yeah, allthese issues.
So I think, no, it's morerelevant than ever.
And I think it's more relevantthan ever because people are
thinking that it's irrelevant,like that is like a double-edged
sword and it actually stops,stops any progress towards
equality in that sense.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
I loved the panel that you sat on with Dr Krista
Comer an international approachto relationality and getting
engaged with activism.
How was it for you being partof an age spectrum in that space
?

Speaker 14 (45:37):
Really actually kind of confronting.
I don't know that I'veparticularly talked or thought
that much aboutintergenerationality in the
water before and maybe that'sbecause, like, if I'm seeing a
lot of women in the water,they're generally younger and I
guess that's why I was like Ihad to really sit with when I
had the call with Krista to talkabout the panel, like why that

(45:58):
was and particularly in ourcommunity, like why the women
who are often older, who arelearning to surf, are so
ostracized, like we have so muchof that and I can see, like you
know, it was actuallyinteresting to reflect on how
I've potentially partaken inthat, especially when I was
younger.
So I had actually I called mymother and had a big chat with
her about it, because she's just, she's nearly 60 and he's going

(46:20):
through a big change in herlife there, so to to have that
chat about intergenerationalityand relations between people and
how, by segregating ourselvesfrom those relationships, like
we're missing out on such a bigcommunity.
Yeah, it was amazing but alsoscary.
You were amazing.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
What are you going to take away from the weekend this
year?

Speaker 14 (46:40):
For me personally.
I love being able to come uphere and it's been one of those
things where I think I feel likethis community exists up here
and it's been easy to imaginethat that's the only place it
can exist.
I think New South Wales hasalways been a bit of a hub for
these events, so I think it'sreally important for me to not
just prioritise, like this beingthe space where that can exist,

(47:02):
but particularly like Victoria,south Australia, like I've
spent a lot of time in Tasmaniabecause my partner studied down
there and his friends are downthere like that's where those
relationships can exist too andthese kind of conversations can
happen, not just in this onespace.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
My name is Bryony, I am 30 and I have come only from
Lennox Head, but I'm actuallyfrom the UK, so pretty far I'm
quite new to the life of a waterwoman.
I'm not like someone who grewup by the coast and surfed and
swam and has this big connection, and it's been since lockdown.
I moved to the coast in the UKand I started finding a tribe
there, but I left and I've movedaround a lot and I've recently

(47:37):
arrived in the northern rivers.
I'm also an oceans campaigner.
I really have been like cravinggreat connections and
particularly with women, andfinding the right kind of people
and I just knew, yeah, I wastold about this within two weeks
of moving to Australia and I'vebeen waiting patiently for six
months.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
What have the takeaways been for you?

Speaker 8 (47:55):
Just that really everyone has a different role to
play.
You can feel the overwhelm oftrying to save the whole ocean
or the land or whatever it isthat you're really passionate
about.
If you're a creative, you canwrite a song.
You know I'm a strategist, Ican write a strategy and people
give so much at a reallylocalized level.
I'm not really a local personever like.
I've moved around my whole lifeand I've never really
understood that kind ofgrassroots connection that

(48:16):
people have to place and countryand sea, and I think this
weekend's really taught me tocome closer and not feel so
overwhelmed by the really,really big stuff that's
happening and actually justbuild special things with
special people.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
I'm known as Aunty Lila around here.
I've been in this area quite afew years.
In the last 35 or something.
We've made community school andcommunity garden, community
radio, many community things.
I really want to honour thewomen coming together here right
now, all the sisters surfingsisters, I call them.
They're with the flow.

(48:48):
There's something that everyoneI've met, not just because my
son's a surfer too, but in thistuning in it's such a.
To me surfing's a spiritualdiscipline.
You don't try and control andcompete.
You know you can do well inanything, whether it's
gymnastics or you know whatever,or running or sports, but this
one is you, tuning into you.

(49:09):
And where I love at Brunswickin the mornings I used to camp
down there sometimes and watchthe surfers or the workers
coming in in the early morning,get out of their trucks, they
look and they tune in, they slowdown and they feel the ocean
and they feel the waves.
Where are the waves going?
They tune into the water, theylisten.
It's one of the incrediblethings that I feel and I counsel

(49:30):
a lot of people around theworld that if someone's been a
surfer, they've got goodlistening skills.
They tune in and listen to themother ocean.
Where's it going.
Then on the board you're notsaying, oh you know, wave go
this way, wave go that way.
You can't do control stuff andyou can't be thinking about the
past or the future.
You're in the moment and it'slike when you go, it's like when

(49:51):
you just tune in.
The wave takes you home.
It's bigger than you and it'slike to know that there's a
great spirit that's bigger thanmy mind, wanting it to look good
or to do whatever.
The little, tiny mind.
It's a useful tool, but it'sthe master.
This is one of the mostbeautiful spiritual disciplines.
The ocean's the biggest teacher.

(50:11):
So we hear now woman, the nextflow, mother, womb, wisdom, work
.
It's like what's needed on theplanetary play today is mother's
compassion, but mother'scompassion needs to arise in
every human being on the planetright now.
This is not a's compassion, butmother's compassion needs to
arise in every human being onthe planet right now.
This is not a gender issue, butthose that have a womb and can
feel what's true.
And you take care of the littleones, like you take care of

(50:33):
your kids and this sort of thing, and you go with the flow.
I take pregnant women, andwhere's the best place to walk
them by if they're here, is wego for a walk by the ocean if
they're in labor, because thewaves are coming in and the
waves are going out.
It's a really beautiful way tocome into your natural rhythms.
We're made of water.
Remember who you are.
It's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Remember who you are, go with the flow may I ask how
old you are in years in earth?
Years in earth, in Earth years,if you like.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
If you like, in Earth years, I'm entering my.
I'm closer to my 77th year, wow.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Wow, you've seen some change.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Quite a bit darling, Quite a bit of changes.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Are you hopeful for?

Speaker 4 (51:19):
where we're headed.
I am, as the world, thestructure of our play.
It's become very depressing inmany ways.
I actually happened to beAustralia's youth representative
at the United Nations when Iwas 18.
And I walked in and I saw thisbig rock.
We shall turn our swords intoplowshares.
We cannot do war anymore, andthis was the times after the

(51:41):
wars.
We've got to have a unitednation so we can't do these
individual fights.
I believed it was possible.
I now know that that's beenhijacked by powers that be that
right now say yeah, well, war'sokay if you pay me enough money.
There's a domination of themoney, god, there are symbols,
there are signs and somehow I'mnot hopeful at all about many of

(52:02):
the systems surviving.
I do see the possibility of allsorts of things Indigenous and
children have dreams aboutwaters changing.
What I do feel hopeful about isthe space of when we come
together in good company, likethat space that touched me then
many years ago in the UnitedNations.
And then we went, a thousand ofus, youth from around the world,

(52:23):
to an armoury in the UnitedNations and then we went, a
thousand of us, used, fromaround the world, to an armoury
in the Bronx and we gave thingsfrom our culture, a song, a
dance or whatever.
There was a few of them indifferent ways of prayers.
But then we had a circle andthen we said and we come from
here, from far away, you know,like the songs.
And then we sang together andcame into the circle and
spiralled and there was onemoment, as we started going

(52:44):
around and you're looking at theeyes in each other in this and
there was one moment where, in aflash and I remember it now
it's more than half a centuryago is that there is only one
God, many different doorways tothe temple of love we live in.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
My name's Diane Tucker and I'm 71 years of age
and I've come down from Mianjin,from Brisbane, to be here at
this amazing Water Women'sCampout.
I came last year as well andI've been following Surfers for
Climate because of the amazingwork that they do.
I'm so impressed, it'sincredible.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Can you speak about your commitment to activism when
that spark landed for you?

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I've thought about this a lot because of being here
.
I think that it began when Iwas a child.
I remember being really awareof the inequality between men
and women and girls and boys,and of racism, before I knew the
words for patriarchy or racism.
And then, as I got older, I gotinvolved in the disability area
and was part of a movement, Isuppose, to deinstitutionalise

(53:51):
people with disabilities inWestern Australia.
And then later on, I worked inthe domestic violence sector in
Queensland when there were nolaws to protect women.
The police had no laws thatthey could use to protect women
and domestic violence was justseen as something that happened
behind closed doors and in factwe had a campaign called Break

(54:11):
the Silence in the 80s.
Then there were big changes inbringing in the domestic
violence action we used tosupport women to escape from
violent homes and go intorefuges and then move into the
community.
And then later on I worked as apsychologist, seeing people in
all sorts of situations, and Iguess I always knew about
climate change.
But towards about 2018, itstarted to really dawn on me

(54:37):
that we were passing tippingpoints and I decided to become
more active in the climate space, and then that's just kind of
grown over the last six years.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Can you speak to the green grounds please?

Speaker 1 (54:51):
The green grounds.
So part of my climate activismis I've been doing some direct
action, which involves beingcivilly disobedient and breaking
some of the laws in order tobring attention to a climate
issue or you know something thatreally needs changing.
So there was a group of 14 ofus who decided as a last resort

(55:13):
really we were so frustratedthat the Queensland government
were still approving massive newcoal mines, like two years
after the International EnergyAgency and others had said
there's no room for any newfossil fuel projects in the
world.
They weren't listening to us,so 14 of us decided we'd go to
them.
So we went into Parliament,into the public gallery which

(55:35):
sits up above the chamber, inquestion time and we unfurled
lightweight banners that webrought in that were about a
metre and a half long and theyall had messages like coal and
gas burnt anywhere killseverywhere.
Stop licensing new coal and gas.
So all those messages aroundstopping coal and gas.
And then we chanted stop coal,stop gas.

(55:55):
And it took them about threeminutes before they removed all
of us from the chamber.
Eventually, a couple of dayslater, the CIB tracked us all
down and we were all chargedwith an archaic law called
disturbing the legislature andthe press the Murdoch press
heard about it and we werereported in their paper as the
Green Grands disrupt parliament,and so every report after that

(56:20):
we were known as the GreenGrands and that our average age
was 68 at that point.
It later came down a little bitwhen a couple of younger ones
were tracked down, but basicallywe were all women over the age
of 60.
We had three men, but the menwere not really given much
airspace.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
You were on a really lovely panel with Dr Krista
Comer yesterday, anintergenerational panel on
activism and relationality.
A lot of us I guess I'm in themid-age category now, not in the
young age category anymore butwe're so hungry for connecting
with elder women who are stillconnected to life, who are still

(57:03):
growing and staying engagedwith the world and you obviously
are, and that's super inspiring.
I wonder if the opposite isalso true, if, as an older woman
, if being in touch with andconnecting with younger women is
valuable for you.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I see it as reallymirroring what you've said.
You know it's about being olderto be able to know the next
generation and have the youngwomen who is future it is as
well and for us to be able towork together and, like we can,
bring the experience that wehave and support younger women.

(57:40):
But younger women bring thatenergy and knowledge of the
world as it is today and keep usconnected to the world as well.
I see it as a really reciprocalthing.
We had, you know, the SchoolStrikers for Climate.
It was a beautiful group ofyoung grade 12s in Brisbane who
did a strike.
They did what they call it astudy in outside Parliament
House towards the end of lastyear and we sat with them every

(58:04):
day.
We drove their desks in andpicked their desks up afterwards
because we were able tofacilitate that.
And we had a conversation withthe 17 and 18-year-olds who said
you know, as they move out, itwould be really great to have a
stable influence of older peoplethere who could just support
all the young ones comingthrough who are learning about

(58:24):
climate action.
And I guess it's also aboutmaking people feel safe.
You know we can, we can.
We really want to facilitate asafe world.
We want the world to be a safeplace for our grandchildren and
our children and care about theyounger generation coming
through and look after youngwomen.
So we really need you, guys.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
And we need you too.
What are you taking away fromthe weekend?

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Oh my gosh, I think what I'm taking away is an
absolute experience of whatwe're just talking about.
I think that theinterconnections between all of
the women here has beenabsolutely beautiful, like
there's so much that's happenedin terms of sharing of
experiences and thoughts andfeelings, and across generations

(59:11):
.
So we've got some women herewho look like they're really
early 20s or so, and then others30, 40, 50, 60.
I'm the oldest, I think 71.
And everybody's just joinedtogether.
It really gives me hope andinspiration that we can come
together as a community, becauseit is.
We need community.
We need that cross-generationalcommunity, yeah, and the

(59:35):
patriarchy and the governmentdepend on us being separated.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
I was going to ask you why community is such an
important piece of the puzzle ofmaking change.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I think, because the people in power gain power from
separating us, from keeping usall fragmented.
If we're acting in isolation,then none of us ever have the
numbers or the power to actuallychange the system, and there's
a lot of fear or prejudice, Ithink, and bias across
generations that stops us fromacting together and that's

(01:00:09):
actually maximised and exploitedby the people in power and the
fossil fuel industry.
I mean, it was only last weekthe CEO of Woodside blamed young
people for the climate crisisby spending on Temu and having
things delivered, so thatthey're causing the climate
crisis.
And there's a bias too towardsyounger people from older people

(01:00:29):
who say they're not pullingtheir weight.
So this is not true.
If we can all come together andwork together, then we can
build the numbers and the powerto keep this going, to make a
difference.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Time is precious.
Thanks for spending some ofyours listening with us today.
Our editor this season is themulti-talented ben jake
alexander.
The soundtrack was composed byshannon soul carol, with
additional tunes by dave and ben.
We'll be continuing today'sconversation on instagram, where
we're at water people podcast,and you can subscribe to our
very infrequent newsletter toget book recommendations,

(01:01:06):
questions we're pondering behindthe scenes, glimpses into
recording the podcast and morevia our website,
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