January 10, 2022 • 35 mins
Adam Ghani, City of Calgary Chief Electrical Inspector joins Zack and Jason on this episode of Watt's the Word. We discuss the processes and procedures for electrical inspections, conductor colour coding, permitting requirements, adoption of the 2021 Code, and much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Jason Cox (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Watt's the Word, an electrical
industry Podcast. I'm Jason Cox.
Zack Hartle (00:05):
And I'm Zack Hartle. We're thrilled to have
you here today as we haveanother relevant conversation
with someone from the electricalindustry.
Jason Cox (00:13):
On this episode, we're speaking with Adam Ganni,
Chief electrical inspector forthe City of Calgary. We'll be
talking about codeinterpretations, adoption of the
25th edition of the code,conductor, color coding, and
more. So have a listen. Welcometo the show, Adam.
Adam Ghani (00:30):
Hey, good afternoon, Jason and Zach. How are you guys
today?
Zack Hartle (00:34):
Hey, doing great.
It's great to have you here.
Adam Ghani (00:38):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Jason Cox (00:40):
We're gonna start off you're Adam. And can you just
kind of give us a quick twominutes about your professional
path and your background intobecoming the chief electrical
inspector for the City ofCalgary?
Adam Ghani (00:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Jason. So I was an electricianright after high school, I
worked in a number ofindustries, residential,
commercial and service work. Ialso worked a number of years in
the oil sands. And I took mymaster electrician training with
sate. And I, while I was workingin the oil sands, I wanted to be
(01:12):
home more, because as as youknow, to town work can be can be
hard on the guy. So I, I did mysafety codes officer
certification, when I was when Iwas working on a town. And then
I, I applied with the city andultimately got the job as a
safety codes officer. And I'vebeen with the city for 14 years
(01:35):
now. And in my, in my 14 years,I've worked as a safety codes
officer, senior safety codes,officer, supervisor, and now the
chief for the for the last threeyears.
Jason Cox (01:52):
Can you kind of tell us a little bit about those
different levels of the safetyinspector? Maybe some of the
different descriptions and maybesome of those specific tasks and
jobs?
Adam Ghani (02:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely. So our base level
position is safety codesofficer, and they conduct field
inspections. We also have aphone we we man, and that's
called the Technical AssistanceCenter. So they they answer code
questions and permittingquestions to customers, when
they receive those calls. And wehave another roll within our
(02:28):
section that does plansexamination. So we do have we do
cursory reviews on logicalservices that are 600 amps, or
larger, or over 600 volts. Sohigh voltage services, and solar
PV installations, undergroundinstallations that are one out
and larger. So that's, that'sthose are the roles done, those
(02:52):
are the jobs done by the safetycodes, officers. And then in
more of a leadership roles, thesenior safety codes officer, so
they provide leadership andmentoring to the safety codes,
officers, and they generallywill work on more complex jobs
that come in or they you know,they they'll they'll help safety
codes officers with those morecomplex jobs.
Zack Hartle (03:15):
So with that Technical Assistance Center, I
think that's somebody that maybenot everybody knows about. So
maybe we could stop there for asec, how could contractors
working out in the field,contact the Technical Assistance
Center and get some help withquestions they
Adam Ghani (03:28):
have? Yeah, so if you're a contractor, and you're
working in the City of Calgaryunder permit, you can call 311
and ask to speak to theTechnical Assistance Center. And
through the Technical AssistanceCenter, we handle questions on
of course, electrical, buildingquestions, whether it's
(03:49):
residential or commercialbuilding questions, Plumbing and
Gas, and also developmentquestions.
Zack Hartle (03:54):
Now that you're in more of a leadership role,
you're not the one out theredoing so many of the field
inspections, but what are someof the inspections mistakes or
code misinterpretations thatyou're getting come back to you
from the field?
Adam Ghani (04:09):
Yeah, that's a great question, Zack. So a couple
items. So overhead services inthe Canadian Canadian electrical
code, they're required to have arigid steel mast of which is
trade size 63. So that's afairly large rigid steel mast.
Now, there is a variance in thein the standard data with N It's
(04:32):
a variance to rule 6-112 whichis which allows us to install
smaller conduit sizes, but thespecific requirements that are
set out in the variance have tobe followed. So for example,
inch and a quarter is is only sohigh above the roofline. Now if
(04:53):
we have to go higher than that,then of course we have to go up
in conduit sizes. Sometimes weSee, you know inch and a quarter
ran like quite a bit higher thanwhat's allowed in variance. And
then like, they'll they'll guywire the the conduit back to the
roofline, which of course, as weknow, isn't, isn't really
(05:16):
covered in the variance. So ifwe're going to reduce the rigid
steel and mass size that that isallowed in the stand data, we
need to follow the very specificrequirements that are laid out
in the standard. So, so that'sone item. And then the other
item is undergroundinstallations. So rule 12-012.
(05:40):
So just make sure that we'rewe're following the specific
requirements in 12-012. And, youknow, like, say, when we're
installing a Tech Cable, we'renot installing it in a trench,
like that's full of large rocksare construction debris that can
that can damage that cable, andalso pay attention to the depths
(06:00):
that we're installing thosethose those raceway systems or,
or cables at. And also that ifwe are going to reduce the depth
because 12 012 allows you toreduce the depth is if certain
mechanical requirements are met.
So we have we follow thosemechanical requirements,
(06:21):
chemical protectionrequirements. And and then last
is marking tape is required, asper the rule. So we often see
that there's there's no markingtape, in the in the trench. And,
and then the last thing I'llI'll mention is load
calculations. So not completinga load calculation. Say we're
(06:45):
adding, you know, supplementaryloads to, to an electrical
service, whether it be an airconditioning unit, hot tub, Evie
charger, secondary suite with alot of electric heat, just
ensuring that we're always doingthat load calculation before we
add those loads. And we're notgoing to overload like 100 amp
(07:05):
service. What we're seeing isour cyclicals officers are
requesting a load calculationand it hasn't even been done.
And then which can you know,once it's completed, if you're
over the size of the electricalservice, then you're looking at
a service upgrade, which can bekind of costly to to find out
later on. Right. So you want toknow that up front,
Zack Hartle (07:30):
as service upgrade will definitely increase the
price of your hot tub like quitea bit if you're adding one. And
so
Jason Cox (07:37):
I got a quick question here. If we were to go
back to the overhead services wewere talking about a moment ago.
So you mentioned the trade size63. However, the possibility of
reducing the size of thatconduit? Should the contractor
be consulting with just thestandout? Or would it be a good
(07:58):
idea for him to also justcontact your your tech senator
and speak with the safety codesofficer?
Adam Ghani (08:06):
Yeah, so I always I always recommend like the code
the minimum CE code requirementsor or what's law in Alberta and,
and Calgary. So always refer tothe rules in the CE code. And
then in Calgary, if there is astandout a published we follow
the standout. So then refer tothe scanned data. And if it if
(08:29):
there's still questions ifyou're if you're unsure, it's
always good to ask forpermission rather than
forgiveness, you can always atthat point, you can always
follow through on us and ask tospeak to the Technical
Assistance Center.
Zack Hartle (08:42):
One of the things that we have had a conversation
with recently about is the useof the orange brown yellow
conductors out in the field for347 600. Now we know I mean, all
of us know sitting here that thecode doesn't specifically allow
orange, brown, yellow for thosedifferent voltages. But it's a
common code practice or sorry, acommon field installation
(09:05):
practice. What are you guysseeing with that? And is there
any change happening with that?
Adam Ghani (09:09):
As you as you pointed out, Zach for some time
now. It's been trade practice inAlberta to use orange brown,
yellow to identify differentslash voltages in a facility
that has more than one slashvoltage. So 347 600 or 277 480.
But as far as we know, that hasnever been written into the
(09:31):
code, we've done some review onthis and we've never been able
to find it in the code. So nowso now since the the C code is
the minimum standard and minimumrequirement in Alberta by law,
we are going back to what withwith what the code is written.
And so rule 4032 specificallytalks about red, black, blue for
(09:54):
all for identification of allslash voltages, and there's
other parts of the rule to that,but nowhere In that rule, is it
written that OB y can be used ororange, brown, yellow can be
used to identify slash voltages.
And then moreover, slash volt,red, orange, brown, yellow
sorry, is to be used forisolated systems in patient care
(10:16):
areas, as per rule 24 208. Andso we're really, we really want
to get back to the minimumrequirements of what the code is
saying and requires. And soit's, it's expected that if
there's an installationhappening in the city of Calgary
(10:37):
that you know, the racewaysystems or the junction box
covers and, and panel covers andways into that system are
correctly identified with thevoltages that are contained
within.
Jason Cox (10:52):
Okay, so I have a question on that. And I think
you may have answered it, butyou'll maybe just give me some
clarification here. So I'veworked in dozens of high rises
in downtown Calgary, where theslash voltage to 277/480, or
more commonly 347/600 is usedsupply lighting to two floors,
(11:13):
entire floor spaces or maybemultiple floor spaces. So with
the city now, really just tryingto work now with red, black
blue. In my existing system, ifI was to do a Rando on a floor
that in the past was all fedwith orange, brown, yellow,
feeding lamps. But now we'regoing to LEDs or some other
(11:36):
efficiency lighting situation.
How am I? Can I have red blackblue in the same conduit? Pardon
me in the same junction box asexisting orange, brown, yellow
feeding that new retrofit?
Adam Ghani (11:55):
Yeah, he's a very, it's a very good question. So
we've we've come up with threescenarios that mostly cover
different installations, if it'sa brand new installation, it
should meet the requirements inthe code. Bottom line. And if if
it's a situation where like,say, say there's a 347 600 volt
(12:17):
lighting panel that's on a flooras you've identified, and all
the existing wiring is beingremoved back to the panel, then
all new wiring that that's to goto the panel should be red,
black, blue, for that 347 600volt lighting and power. Now,
sometimes in high rises, a347 600 volt panel could serve a
(12:42):
few different floors. Now, ifyou're just doing a renovation
on the one floor, so it's atenant improvement. And there is
that, you know, there's thatthree phase four wire circuit
brought out on the floor is thisorange, brown, yellow, I would
say that that would be carriedon with orange, brown, yellow,
(13:03):
the last thing we want to do isto create a situation where
we're identifying two differentcolors now, that wouldn't be
that would not be good. So thoseare those are generally the
three scenarios. But what I dorecommend, if you're starting a
project and you're unsure,please contact us Technical
Assistance Center you know,you're starting you're starting
(13:25):
to rough the rough walls in thein the space and you're
wondering what to do with thatlighting circuit get get us
there for for that initial roughinspection and, and go over with
safety Corps officer on on whatyou want to do for the for the
lighting circuits. And we canprovide that advice at that
time.
Jason Cox (13:45):
It's amazing, just to think I mean, I've been out of
like the field construction for15 years now. But with with the
introduction now of LEDs, whichwere introduced a while ago,
right those giant 347 volt 600volt panels that we use to feed
all the lighting with now. Imean they're almost obsolete.
Adam Ghani (14:07):
Yeah, you could you know, 1114 wire circuit could do
an entire floor now with thewith the efficiency of that
lighting.
Zack Hartle (14:16):
So, in terms of maybe punitive measures for not
following, you know, permittingrequirements or permitting
processes, what can contractorsor homeowners expect to see?
Adam Ghani (14:28):
Yeah, so, very good question. permits are required
under under the act. And and so,all construction alterations,
additions, new constructionrequires to be permitted. And
so, you know, when when there isnon code compliance or an unsafe
(14:49):
condition that's identifiedBioceuticals officer, they will
write a notice with their withtheir requirements, to bring it
up to code compliance or orsafety? And if if those
requirements are not met onevehicle to compliance is, is an
order under under the safetycodes Act. Now, generally the
(15:13):
timelines of an order are like35 days, it's illegal, it's
illegal order to comply, it canbe less, depending on the
situation. And and if if thatfails, then there can be charges
under the safety codes act forfor non compliance or not
obtaining an electrical permit.
But, but generally, yes, that wewe we do want to see permits
(15:33):
obtained in the City of Calgaryand, you know, it's ultimately
the owners responsibility toensure that permits are are
obtained for the work that'sthat's being completed.
Zack Hartle (15:47):
Adam, one thing I've noticed over the last
couple, I guess, years, maybedecade is that the permitting
process for both homeowners andcontractors is becoming easier.
So obviously, we have technologynow that's helping that along.
But would you say that that's agoal of the inspections
department is to make thatprocess easy and attainable for
everyone to get a permit?
Adam Ghani (16:09):
Yeah, no, great question. Absolutely. I think
it's a corporate push toactually make online services
more accessible. We have we havemoved a lot of things online.
And granted, permitting wasonline before COVID. But you
(16:29):
know, it will get easier to dothis stuff online. Now for
electrical contractors permitsor instant release. And so when
you regardless of what you'redoing, you you can pull a permit
through currently the VISTAsystem. And that's instant
really released, there may besome plans, examination
requirements, but those can comein after, after the permits
(16:51):
pulled. And homeowners can alsopull permits online, through the
My ID piece, once they once theycreate that money Id pretty soon
does little forward looking. Butwhile we are doing a project to
create my business ID, so thesame sort of thing that
homeowners have right now butfor businesses, and that'll,
(17:15):
that'll replace the VISTA ID forpulling permits. But we are we
are constantly trying to improveour online services for
customers.
Zack Hartle (17:26):
And there's no question that improving that
system. And I thinkspecifically, in my opinion,
like getting homeowners theability to pull permits and get
an inspection is going to createbetter basement Ruffins and
better installations from thehomeowner. And hopefully they
see that process is easy, andthey're not avoiding it. Because
(17:46):
of difficulty. Right. And I haveheard that has been getting
better. And speaking ofhomeowners versus contractors
permits maybe for a minute, whatwould be the difference between
a homeowner's permit and acontractor's permit in terms of
inspections? What's thedifference there?
Adam Ghani (18:03):
Yeah, so to obtain a homeowner's permit, you have to
own and reside in the home. Andyou you should have, you know, a
basic knowledge of wiring and becompetent. To do that wiring. We
also restrict what homeownerscan pull permits for. So
homeowners cannot pull permitsfor electrical service work,
(18:25):
they can tie into the branchcircuit wiring compartment of a
panel. But they can't doanything upstream of that. They
also cannot do solar PVinstallations because of the
complexity. And they can't do inground swimming pools because of
the complexity of those systemsas well like the belt bonding
and grounding requirements. Andthen homeowners we have to be
(18:48):
able to see all of the wiring.
So if none of the wiring can beburied a ton of inspection, and
you can't be covered by drywallor any sort of finishing
material or insulation or vaporbarrier. So we want to be able
to access like all the wiring ofthe splices. And so it's quite a
rigorous. It's quite a rigorousinspection. Homeowners are
(19:15):
slight or sorry contractors areslightly different depending on
where where the inspection istaking place and the job value.
So we do have a qualitymanagement plan that that has
those requirements set out in,in in the quality management
plan.
Jason Cox (19:34):
Adam with the inspections during COVID I
understand that you guys weredoing some video inspections, is
that correct?
Adam Ghani (19:44):
Yeah, that's that is correct. Jason, we were able to
very quickly pivot. And we weregiven permission by the province
to pivot to I'm to videoinspections to keep construction
going. And so we were doingremote video inspections using
(20:08):
Google duo. Up. And that allowedus to keep our workers and, and
then public safe, you canimagine, on a daily basis, we do
600 or so inspections, not notjust electrical, but you know,
I'm thinking of, I'm thinking ofelectrical, plumbing gas
(20:28):
building could be even more insome cases, and development
inspections, I should add tothat, too. And so we were using
this to, to, to try to reducethe touch points that that we
could have on a daily basis,some were using that for
occupied residential, like sothat's your basement
developments and, and in generalrenovation work. And then for
(20:53):
some commercial installations aswell. Really where safety codes
officers saw an opportunity toto use video inspection to
reduce the amount of contactthey they would have with the
public. So it's it's beenhelpful in in helping us keep
our staff and the public safeduring the pandemic.
Jason Cox (21:17):
So yes, so of course, during the pandemic, right,
we've all been forced to take onthese new challenges of new uses
for technology. For some of us,it's been daunting for others,
they they embrace it, andthey've been using it for years.
So coming out of COVID If, ifthat was to happen soon I cross
my fingers. It seems like thesevideo inspections would be
(21:40):
something that might continue.
Adam Ghani (21:43):
Yes, I, I don't see I see us using video inspections
into the future. So I don't seethem going anywhere. It's just
It may look different on how wehow we do our video inspections
and where we use those thosevideo inspections. We have, we
have realized some efficiencies.
But we do want to use thosevideo inspections for where
(22:04):
they're appropriate. Like, forexample, the homeowner permits,
we definitely want to do a sitevisit on the on the homeowner
piece. It's just it's more of acomprehensive inspection when
you're there in person on siteand able to do that inspection
as opposed to over over video.
(22:27):
So we're still we're stillworking out the details on what
that looks like for the future.
That's one of our projects.
Jason Cox (22:34):
When your contractors are calling into your Technical
Assistance Center, do they havethe ability to send you guys
video and or pictures of thingsthat they're, they're having
questions with?
Adam Ghani (22:46):
Yeah, we, we definitely use all those forms
of communication with ourcustomers. But it's very serial
scenario specific. So it'sreally up to the safety codes
officer, whether, you know,they, they they accept or
communicate using picture video.
Zack Hartle (23:05):
So Adam inspection department, they collaborate
with the contractors, theelectrical contractors, I
imagine there's also somecollaboration with ENMAX. And I
know maybe all three of themwork together contractor and Max
and inspections. The situationthat comes to mind for me, I
guess would be in Calgary herewe're seeing a lot of infill
houses come in where maybe asingle family home that has
(23:28):
probably a 100 amp, maybe even a60 amp service come down and in
its place goes up a four Plex.
So you're quadrupling the loador more with air conditioners
and all that probably going inthe new houses. How does that
relationship between ENMAXcontractor and inspections work?
Adam Ghani (23:45):
The City of Calgary electrical inspection are where
the authority havingjurisdiction under Part One of
the Canadian electrical code.
And then there is a demarcationpoint at some point depending on
if it's an overhead orunderground service. So when we
think about overhead, so wethink about overhead services in
say the inner city, thedemarcation point would be the
(24:06):
Weatherhead for example, and MXis responsible to connect that
electrical service with theirwith their overhead wiring or
their the triplex now as underPart One of the canal electrical
code, if we're taking down asingle family dwelling and we're
putting up you know, a duplex orfour Plex or whatever the case
(24:29):
may be, of course, we would, wewould we would do a demand on
the service calculation toensure that we can adequately
service the new developments.
And then we The City of Calgaryelectrical inspection doesn't
tie in with them max to ensurethat MX can can service that new
(24:50):
development it's actually up tothe customer or the electrical
contractor to get a hold of himmax. And they can do that by
emailing get connected at him.
x.com And that's an MX you know,Will, Will will, will ensure
that they can, they cancorrectly service that, that
that new development. So in
Zack Hartle (25:13):
a situation such as that demarcation point, just to
be clear is where, essentiallyand Max's responsibility would
end from their conductor and itbecomes the homeowners or the
consumer service would takeplace. Okay, so in an
underground situation that wouldhappen at the meter base?
Adam Ghani (25:32):
No, it's a very good question in the City of Calgary.
For underground services,demarcation is actually the
property line. So it's not apoint of connection. Which is,
which is which is unique. So,yeah, and then for overhead
services, it's it's theWeatherhead. So just to
(25:53):
reiterate that, for undergroundservices, it's a property line.
And then over IT services, it'sthe weather had.
Zack Hartle (26:04):
Great. And then in a situation like that, you
mentioned contractor contactsand Max get connected@enmax.com,
just to ensure that they areyou. Okay, to install larger
demand at that point, theutility grid can support it,
would they need to submit printsto the city inspection
department, when are printsrequired to be submitted?
Adam Ghani (26:27):
Yeah, so we do plans examination for electrical
services that are 600 amps, orlarger, and commercial. We
don't, there are some, there area few electrical services that
are residential, in the City ofCalgary that are actually 600
amps or larger, but we don'trequire prints for that. And
(26:47):
then we do require prints forsolar PV also review
installations at this time. Andwe reserve the right to request
prints for complexinstallations. So if there's
something we've never seenbefore, or it's fairly complex,
and we want information upfront,to, you know, to to review, and
(27:11):
then compile for the safetycodes officer who's going to go
there on site, we can requestthat and underground
installations, whatnot andlarger to meet the, to meet the
section four undergroundrequirements, or the IEEE 35. We
want to know upfront that, youknow, we're either installing to
the prescriptive requirements inSection four, or if there's a
(27:34):
calculation being done to thestandard to the IEEE 35.
Underground standard. And soonce we, once we get all that
information, we review it andthen we attach it to the permit,
and the safety codes officer cango out and do their inspection
based on on what's compiledthere.
Jason Cox (27:54):
Alright, so a question that just kind of
popped into my head here that weprobably should have covered
earlier on when we're looking atpermitting. We always have
questions about fire alarmsystems. So do you need a
building permit? And a firealarm permit? Pardon me an
electrical permit? When do youneed both? When do you need one?
(28:15):
Can I call the TechnicalAssistance Center? And
basically, Adam, how does allthat work?
Adam Ghani (28:20):
Yeah, so generally, if we're doing any sort of fire
alarm work, we're going to needboth a building permit and an
electrical permit. There arevery few scenarios where you may
only need an electrical permit.
So what I recommend, as youpointed out, if you're unsure,
please call the TechnicalAssistance Center and ask to
speak to a building SEO. Andthey can, they can they can
(28:43):
discuss your specific scenariowith you and advise you on which
permits are required.
Jason Cox (28:51):
The 2021 Canadian electrical code comes into
adoption in Alberta, February 1of 2022. Adam, is there some
changes to that electrical codethat you'd like to kind of
mention?
Adam Ghani (29:08):
Yeah, so the biggest change in the 25th edition is
the deletion of table 39. And sonow, for residential services,
you would select a conductorfrom table two or four. And so
that's that's a major change.
And we're we're currentlyworking with MX on what that
(29:29):
looks like. Because with thedeep service program, they
generally supply number twoaluminum USCB, 90 or for wrought
aluminum USCB, 90 to two singlefamily dwellings to new
subdivisions. So that's, youknow, it's a major change and to
(29:49):
go to go up to bigger conductorsizes, is is going to be quite
quite an issue. So we're we'reGoing through that challenge
right now, I don't have a lot ofdetails for you guys. But I want
to come back with that. Foroverhead services, like if we're
doing a service upgrade. ininner city, it's generally
(30:10):
easier because the electriciancan just select what what
conductors, they're going toinstalls per table two and four.
And then they can go up in size,because the Weatherhead is the
utility demarcation point. Andso And Max can still keep their
triplex sizing, because that'sunder their utility code. So
(30:30):
that's under Part Three, or theAlberta utility code. So that's
the biggest change for for the20 21/25 edition electrical
code. And I will certainly keepyou guys posted on on how that
on on all the details and whatthat looks like, the future.
Jason Cox (30:56):
Okay, and that's great. Thank you so much for
that. What I'd also like to justclarify right now is you guys
will be inspecting based on the25th edition of the code. When
the permit is pulled afterFebruary 1, is that correct?
Adam Ghani (31:15):
That's correct. Yep.
Jason Cox (31:17):
Okay
Zack Hartle (31:18):
Adam, that's, that's great. Thank you so much
for coming on and chatting withus about everything we've
chatted about today, withinspections. Like you mentioned,
we're gonna hold you to that.
And we're gonna bring you backfor a follow up in probably
around February or something tosee what the plan is with
underground services. But Itruly do appreciate your time.
(31:38):
And thanks for coming on theshow today.
Unknown (31:42):
Excellent. Thanks, Jason. And thanks, Doc.
Appreciate it. Appreciate youhaving me on the show.
Jason Cox (31:48):
very appreciative today to have Adam on the show,
to have an hour of his time totalk to us about just the
processes and the procedures andwhat the inspection departments
like definitely, we get askedquestions about strange
situations all the time when itcomes to the code. And it was
nice to talk to an inspector andget his feedback on that. What
(32:11):
do you think Zack?
Zack Hartle (32:12):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think like you say, I'm
really appreciate the time fromAdam. And just having that time
with any inspector. I mean, theyhave such a wealth of knowledge
where they're going out, andthey're seeing so many different
installations. And I love thathe pointed out the the Technical
Assistance Center, right, makingthose inspectors available to
people doing the installationsin the field. So definitely an
(32:34):
asset that, I mean, hopefullysomeone learned about that today
and can use them moving forward.
Jason Cox (32:41):
Yeah, I think it's a great point. Like a lot of times
when we're looking at thoseweird code situations, now, it's
just gonna be simply call yoursafety codes officer, call 311.
Talk to someone in the TechnicalAssistance Center. Hey, if it's
fire alarm, you might havequestions about building
permits, and electrical permits.
So, so great, great topic ofconversation there today.
Zack Hartle (33:02):
What was the big takeaway for you?
Jason Cox (33:04):
Well, the orange, brown, yellow, of course, we
talked about it. And I rememberkind of looking at it, like
shaking my head, the first timeI started pulling orange, brown,
yellow 20 plus years ago. Soit'll be interesting to see in
the months to come how that'sadopted in the industry, if
everyone just quickly abandonsorange or brown, yellow, or if
(33:25):
they keep pulling it becausethey weren't aware of the
change. So it'll be neat to seehow that comes about it. It does
make sense. And it would be niceto have some sort of consistency
throughout our trade, not justin our city, but obviously
throughout the nation.
Zack Hartle (33:40):
Yeah, it's one of those interesting trade practice
conversations. I mean,technically, nothing's changing.
Now, we're just following thecode as it has always been
written. But yeah, I rememberbeing an apprentice and for
years, pulling a couple of yearspulling orange, brown, yellow,
only to go to school to findout, well, that's not right, to
then go back to site to be like,Oh, no, we always pull orange,
(34:02):
brown, yellow. So yeah, it's aninteresting application now and
trying to follow the wording ofthe CE code. So it's good to
see.
Jason Cox (34:11):
Yeah, and I mean, truthfully, now, back in my day,
we had giant 347/600 voltlighting panels. And those
panels might not be used hardlyat all anymore, at least to the
full capacity. They were in thepast just because of the changes
in LED lighting. So yeah, so wecontinue to learn and we'll look
(34:32):
forward to talking to Adamhopefully in the new year.
Zack Hartle (34:35):
Absolutely. And just also a big shout out to the
City of Calgary as a whole theywere very easy to deal with to
facilitate the recording of thispodcast. And we do appreciate
that, that openness and thatwillingness to come on the show.
And of course, also thanks toall of our listeners who are
here listening to this show.
Jason and I are here trying tobring relevant conversations and
(34:57):
we'd love to hear from you. WeWant to know what you want to
hear about? Please reach out tous, Facebook, Instagram. Let us
know what you want to hear abouton the show. You can connect
with both of us on LinkedIn ifyou want. And please make sure
you're subscribed Apple, GoogleSpotify, wherever you listen to
podcasts, and tell your friendsto get the word out there.
Jason Cox (35:20):
Just remember, this isn't a race to the bottom, it's
a race to the top. Make sure youpull your permits and work safe
and we'll see you guys on thenext episode.
Hello, and welcome to Watt's the Word, an electrical
industry Podcast. I'm Jason Cox.
Zack Hartle (00:05):
And I'm Zack Hartle. We're thrilled to have
you here today as we haveanother relevant conversation
with someone from the electricalindustry.
Jason Cox (00:13):
On this episode, we're speaking with Adam Ganni,
Chief electrical inspector forthe City of Calgary. We'll be
talking about codeinterpretations, adoption of the
25th edition of the code,conductor, color coding, and
more. So have a listen. Welcometo the show, Adam.
Adam Ghani (00:30):
Hey, good afternoon, Jason and Zach. How are you guys
today?
Zack Hartle (00:34):
Hey, doing great.
It's great to have you here.
Adam Ghani (00:38):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Jason Cox (00:40):
We're gonna start off you're Adam. And can you just
kind of give us a quick twominutes about your professional
path and your background intobecoming the chief electrical
inspector for the City ofCalgary?
Adam Ghani (00:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
Jason. So I was an electricianright after high school, I
worked in a number ofindustries, residential,
commercial and service work. Ialso worked a number of years in
the oil sands. And I took mymaster electrician training with
sate. And I, while I was workingin the oil sands, I wanted to be
(01:12):
home more, because as as youknow, to town work can be can be
hard on the guy. So I, I did mysafety codes officer
certification, when I was when Iwas working on a town. And then
I, I applied with the city andultimately got the job as a
safety codes officer. And I'vebeen with the city for 14 years
(01:35):
now. And in my, in my 14 years,I've worked as a safety codes
officer, senior safety codes,officer, supervisor, and now the
chief for the for the last threeyears.
Jason Cox (01:52):
Can you kind of tell us a little bit about those
different levels of the safetyinspector? Maybe some of the
different descriptions and maybesome of those specific tasks and
jobs?
Adam Ghani (02:05):
Yeah, no, absolutely. So our base level
position is safety codesofficer, and they conduct field
inspections. We also have aphone we we man, and that's
called the Technical AssistanceCenter. So they they answer code
questions and permittingquestions to customers, when
they receive those calls. And wehave another roll within our
(02:28):
section that does plansexamination. So we do have we do
cursory reviews on logicalservices that are 600 amps, or
larger, or over 600 volts. Sohigh voltage services, and solar
PV installations, undergroundinstallations that are one out
and larger. So that's, that'sthose are the roles done, those
(02:52):
are the jobs done by the safetycodes, officers. And then in
more of a leadership roles, thesenior safety codes officer, so
they provide leadership andmentoring to the safety codes,
officers, and they generallywill work on more complex jobs
that come in or they you know,they they'll they'll help safety
codes officers with those morecomplex jobs.
Zack Hartle (03:15):
So with that Technical Assistance Center, I
think that's somebody that maybenot everybody knows about. So
maybe we could stop there for asec, how could contractors
working out in the field,contact the Technical Assistance
Center and get some help withquestions they
Adam Ghani (03:28):
have? Yeah, so if you're a contractor, and you're
working in the City of Calgaryunder permit, you can call 311
and ask to speak to theTechnical Assistance Center. And
through the Technical AssistanceCenter, we handle questions on
of course, electrical, buildingquestions, whether it's
(03:49):
residential or commercialbuilding questions, Plumbing and
Gas, and also developmentquestions.
Zack Hartle (03:54):
Now that you're in more of a leadership role,
you're not the one out theredoing so many of the field
inspections, but what are someof the inspections mistakes or
code misinterpretations thatyou're getting come back to you
from the field?
Adam Ghani (04:09):
Yeah, that's a great question, Zack. So a couple
items. So overhead services inthe Canadian Canadian electrical
code, they're required to have arigid steel mast of which is
trade size 63. So that's afairly large rigid steel mast.
Now, there is a variance in thein the standard data with N It's
(04:32):
a variance to rule 6-112 whichis which allows us to install
smaller conduit sizes, but thespecific requirements that are
set out in the variance have tobe followed. So for example,
inch and a quarter is is only sohigh above the roofline. Now if
(04:53):
we have to go higher than that,then of course we have to go up
in conduit sizes. Sometimes weSee, you know inch and a quarter
ran like quite a bit higher thanwhat's allowed in variance. And
then like, they'll they'll guywire the the conduit back to the
roofline, which of course, as weknow, isn't, isn't really
(05:16):
covered in the variance. So ifwe're going to reduce the rigid
steel and mass size that that isallowed in the stand data, we
need to follow the very specificrequirements that are laid out
in the standard. So, so that'sone item. And then the other
item is undergroundinstallations. So rule 12-012.
(05:40):
So just make sure that we'rewe're following the specific
requirements in 12-012. And, youknow, like, say, when we're
installing a Tech Cable, we'renot installing it in a trench,
like that's full of large rocksare construction debris that can
that can damage that cable, andalso pay attention to the depths
(06:00):
that we're installing thosethose those raceway systems or,
or cables at. And also that ifwe are going to reduce the depth
because 12 012 allows you toreduce the depth is if certain
mechanical requirements are met.
So we have we follow thosemechanical requirements,
(06:21):
chemical protectionrequirements. And and then last
is marking tape is required, asper the rule. So we often see
that there's there's no markingtape, in the in the trench. And,
and then the last thing I'llI'll mention is load
calculations. So not completinga load calculation. Say we're
(06:45):
adding, you know, supplementaryloads to, to an electrical
service, whether it be an airconditioning unit, hot tub, Evie
charger, secondary suite with alot of electric heat, just
ensuring that we're always doingthat load calculation before we
add those loads. And we're notgoing to overload like 100 amp
(07:05):
service. What we're seeing isour cyclicals officers are
requesting a load calculationand it hasn't even been done.
And then which can you know,once it's completed, if you're
over the size of the electricalservice, then you're looking at
a service upgrade, which can bekind of costly to to find out
later on. Right. So you want toknow that up front,
Zack Hartle (07:30):
as service upgrade will definitely increase the
price of your hot tub like quitea bit if you're adding one. And
so
Jason Cox (07:37):
I got a quick question here. If we were to go
back to the overhead services wewere talking about a moment ago.
So you mentioned the trade size63. However, the possibility of
reducing the size of thatconduit? Should the contractor
be consulting with just thestandout? Or would it be a good
(07:58):
idea for him to also justcontact your your tech senator
and speak with the safety codesofficer?
Adam Ghani (08:06):
Yeah, so I always I always recommend like the code
the minimum CE code requirementsor or what's law in Alberta and,
and Calgary. So always refer tothe rules in the CE code. And
then in Calgary, if there is astandout a published we follow
the standout. So then refer tothe scanned data. And if it if
(08:29):
there's still questions ifyou're if you're unsure, it's
always good to ask forpermission rather than
forgiveness, you can always atthat point, you can always
follow through on us and ask tospeak to the Technical
Assistance Center.
Zack Hartle (08:42):
One of the things that we have had a conversation
with recently about is the useof the orange brown yellow
conductors out in the field for347 600. Now we know I mean, all
of us know sitting here that thecode doesn't specifically allow
orange, brown, yellow for thosedifferent voltages. But it's a
common code practice or sorry, acommon field installation
(09:05):
practice. What are you guysseeing with that? And is there
any change happening with that?
Adam Ghani (09:09):
As you as you pointed out, Zach for some time
now. It's been trade practice inAlberta to use orange brown,
yellow to identify differentslash voltages in a facility
that has more than one slashvoltage. So 347 600 or 277 480.
But as far as we know, that hasnever been written into the
(09:31):
code, we've done some review onthis and we've never been able
to find it in the code. So nowso now since the the C code is
the minimum standard and minimumrequirement in Alberta by law,
we are going back to what withwith what the code is written.
And so rule 4032 specificallytalks about red, black, blue for
(09:54):
all for identification of allslash voltages, and there's
other parts of the rule to that,but nowhere In that rule, is it
written that OB y can be used ororange, brown, yellow can be
used to identify slash voltages.
And then moreover, slash volt,red, orange, brown, yellow
sorry, is to be used forisolated systems in patient care
(10:16):
areas, as per rule 24 208. Andso we're really, we really want
to get back to the minimumrequirements of what the code is
saying and requires. And soit's, it's expected that if
there's an installationhappening in the city of Calgary
(10:37):
that you know, the racewaysystems or the junction box
covers and, and panel covers andways into that system are
correctly identified with thevoltages that are contained
within.
Jason Cox (10:52):
Okay, so I have a question on that. And I think
you may have answered it, butyou'll maybe just give me some
clarification here. So I'veworked in dozens of high rises
in downtown Calgary, where theslash voltage to 277/480, or
more commonly 347/600 is usedsupply lighting to two floors,
(11:13):
entire floor spaces or maybemultiple floor spaces. So with
the city now, really just tryingto work now with red, black
blue. In my existing system, ifI was to do a Rando on a floor
that in the past was all fedwith orange, brown, yellow,
feeding lamps. But now we'regoing to LEDs or some other
(11:36):
efficiency lighting situation.
How am I? Can I have red blackblue in the same conduit? Pardon
me in the same junction box asexisting orange, brown, yellow
feeding that new retrofit?
Adam Ghani (11:55):
Yeah, he's a very, it's a very good question. So
we've we've come up with threescenarios that mostly cover
different installations, if it'sa brand new installation, it
should meet the requirements inthe code. Bottom line. And if if
it's a situation where like,say, say there's a 347 600 volt
(12:17):
lighting panel that's on a flooras you've identified, and all
the existing wiring is beingremoved back to the panel, then
all new wiring that that's to goto the panel should be red,
black, blue, for that 347 600volt lighting and power. Now,
sometimes in high rises, a347 600 volt panel could serve a
(12:42):
few different floors. Now, ifyou're just doing a renovation
on the one floor, so it's atenant improvement. And there is
that, you know, there's thatthree phase four wire circuit
brought out on the floor is thisorange, brown, yellow, I would
say that that would be carriedon with orange, brown, yellow,
(13:03):
the last thing we want to do isto create a situation where
we're identifying two differentcolors now, that wouldn't be
that would not be good. So thoseare those are generally the
three scenarios. But what I dorecommend, if you're starting a
project and you're unsure,please contact us Technical
Assistance Center you know,you're starting you're starting
(13:25):
to rough the rough walls in thein the space and you're
wondering what to do with thatlighting circuit get get us
there for for that initial roughinspection and, and go over with
safety Corps officer on on whatyou want to do for the for the
lighting circuits. And we canprovide that advice at that
time.
Jason Cox (13:45):
It's amazing, just to think I mean, I've been out of
like the field construction for15 years now. But with with the
introduction now of LEDs, whichwere introduced a while ago,
right those giant 347 volt 600volt panels that we use to feed
all the lighting with now. Imean they're almost obsolete.
Adam Ghani (14:07):
Yeah, you could you know, 1114 wire circuit could do
an entire floor now with thewith the efficiency of that
lighting.
Zack Hartle (14:16):
So, in terms of maybe punitive measures for not
following, you know, permittingrequirements or permitting
processes, what can contractorsor homeowners expect to see?
Adam Ghani (14:28):
Yeah, so, very good question. permits are required
under under the act. And and so,all construction alterations,
additions, new constructionrequires to be permitted. And
so, you know, when when there isnon code compliance or an unsafe
(14:49):
condition that's identifiedBioceuticals officer, they will
write a notice with their withtheir requirements, to bring it
up to code compliance or orsafety? And if if those
requirements are not met onevehicle to compliance is, is an
order under under the safetycodes Act. Now, generally the
(15:13):
timelines of an order are like35 days, it's illegal, it's
illegal order to comply, it canbe less, depending on the
situation. And and if if thatfails, then there can be charges
under the safety codes act forfor non compliance or not
obtaining an electrical permit.
But, but generally, yes, that wewe we do want to see permits
(15:33):
obtained in the City of Calgaryand, you know, it's ultimately
the owners responsibility toensure that permits are are
obtained for the work that'sthat's being completed.
Zack Hartle (15:47):
Adam, one thing I've noticed over the last
couple, I guess, years, maybedecade is that the permitting
process for both homeowners andcontractors is becoming easier.
So obviously, we have technologynow that's helping that along.
But would you say that that's agoal of the inspections
department is to make thatprocess easy and attainable for
everyone to get a permit?
Adam Ghani (16:09):
Yeah, no, great question. Absolutely. I think
it's a corporate push toactually make online services
more accessible. We have we havemoved a lot of things online.
And granted, permitting wasonline before COVID. But you
(16:29):
know, it will get easier to dothis stuff online. Now for
electrical contractors permitsor instant release. And so when
you regardless of what you'redoing, you you can pull a permit
through currently the VISTAsystem. And that's instant
really released, there may besome plans, examination
requirements, but those can comein after, after the permits
(16:51):
pulled. And homeowners can alsopull permits online, through the
My ID piece, once they once theycreate that money Id pretty soon
does little forward looking. Butwhile we are doing a project to
create my business ID, so thesame sort of thing that
homeowners have right now butfor businesses, and that'll,
(17:15):
that'll replace the VISTA ID forpulling permits. But we are we
are constantly trying to improveour online services for
customers.
Zack Hartle (17:26):
And there's no question that improving that
system. And I thinkspecifically, in my opinion,
like getting homeowners theability to pull permits and get
an inspection is going to createbetter basement Ruffins and
better installations from thehomeowner. And hopefully they
see that process is easy, andthey're not avoiding it. Because
(17:46):
of difficulty. Right. And I haveheard that has been getting
better. And speaking ofhomeowners versus contractors
permits maybe for a minute, whatwould be the difference between
a homeowner's permit and acontractor's permit in terms of
inspections? What's thedifference there?
Adam Ghani (18:03):
Yeah, so to obtain a homeowner's permit, you have to
own and reside in the home. Andyou you should have, you know, a
basic knowledge of wiring and becompetent. To do that wiring. We
also restrict what homeownerscan pull permits for. So
homeowners cannot pull permitsfor electrical service work,
(18:25):
they can tie into the branchcircuit wiring compartment of a
panel. But they can't doanything upstream of that. They
also cannot do solar PVinstallations because of the
complexity. And they can't do inground swimming pools because of
the complexity of those systemsas well like the belt bonding
and grounding requirements. Andthen homeowners we have to be
(18:48):
able to see all of the wiring.
So if none of the wiring can beburied a ton of inspection, and
you can't be covered by drywallor any sort of finishing
material or insulation or vaporbarrier. So we want to be able
to access like all the wiring ofthe splices. And so it's quite a
rigorous. It's quite a rigorousinspection. Homeowners are
(19:15):
slight or sorry contractors areslightly different depending on
where where the inspection istaking place and the job value.
So we do have a qualitymanagement plan that that has
those requirements set out in,in in the quality management
plan.
Jason Cox (19:34):
Adam with the inspections during COVID I
understand that you guys weredoing some video inspections, is
that correct?
Adam Ghani (19:44):
Yeah, that's that is correct. Jason, we were able to
very quickly pivot. And we weregiven permission by the province
to pivot to I'm to videoinspections to keep construction
going. And so we were doingremote video inspections using
(20:08):
Google duo. Up. And that allowedus to keep our workers and, and
then public safe, you canimagine, on a daily basis, we do
600 or so inspections, not notjust electrical, but you know,
I'm thinking of, I'm thinking ofelectrical, plumbing gas
(20:28):
building could be even more insome cases, and development
inspections, I should add tothat, too. And so we were using
this to, to, to try to reducethe touch points that that we
could have on a daily basis,some were using that for
occupied residential, like sothat's your basement
developments and, and in generalrenovation work. And then for
(20:53):
some commercial installations aswell. Really where safety codes
officers saw an opportunity toto use video inspection to
reduce the amount of contactthey they would have with the
public. So it's it's beenhelpful in in helping us keep
our staff and the public safeduring the pandemic.
Jason Cox (21:17):
So yes, so of course, during the pandemic, right,
we've all been forced to take onthese new challenges of new uses
for technology. For some of us,it's been daunting for others,
they they embrace it, andthey've been using it for years.
So coming out of COVID If, ifthat was to happen soon I cross
my fingers. It seems like thesevideo inspections would be
(21:40):
something that might continue.
Adam Ghani (21:43):
Yes, I, I don't see I see us using video inspections
into the future. So I don't seethem going anywhere. It's just
It may look different on how wehow we do our video inspections
and where we use those thosevideo inspections. We have, we
have realized some efficiencies.
But we do want to use thosevideo inspections for where
(22:04):
they're appropriate. Like, forexample, the homeowner permits,
we definitely want to do a sitevisit on the on the homeowner
piece. It's just it's more of acomprehensive inspection when
you're there in person on siteand able to do that inspection
as opposed to over over video.
(22:27):
So we're still we're stillworking out the details on what
that looks like for the future.
That's one of our projects.
Jason Cox (22:34):
When your contractors are calling into your Technical
Assistance Center, do they havethe ability to send you guys
video and or pictures of thingsthat they're, they're having
questions with?
Adam Ghani (22:46):
Yeah, we, we definitely use all those forms
of communication with ourcustomers. But it's very serial
scenario specific. So it'sreally up to the safety codes
officer, whether, you know,they, they they accept or
communicate using picture video.
Zack Hartle (23:05):
So Adam inspection department, they collaborate
with the contractors, theelectrical contractors, I
imagine there's also somecollaboration with ENMAX. And I
know maybe all three of themwork together contractor and Max
and inspections. The situationthat comes to mind for me, I
guess would be in Calgary herewe're seeing a lot of infill
houses come in where maybe asingle family home that has
(23:28):
probably a 100 amp, maybe even a60 amp service come down and in
its place goes up a four Plex.
So you're quadrupling the loador more with air conditioners
and all that probably going inthe new houses. How does that
relationship between ENMAXcontractor and inspections work?
Adam Ghani (23:45):
The City of Calgary electrical inspection are where
the authority havingjurisdiction under Part One of
the Canadian electrical code.
And then there is a demarcationpoint at some point depending on
if it's an overhead orunderground service. So when we
think about overhead, so wethink about overhead services in
say the inner city, thedemarcation point would be the
(24:06):
Weatherhead for example, and MXis responsible to connect that
electrical service with theirwith their overhead wiring or
their the triplex now as underPart One of the canal electrical
code, if we're taking down asingle family dwelling and we're
putting up you know, a duplex orfour Plex or whatever the case
(24:29):
may be, of course, we would, wewould we would do a demand on
the service calculation toensure that we can adequately
service the new developments.
And then we The City of Calgaryelectrical inspection doesn't
tie in with them max to ensurethat MX can can service that new
(24:50):
development it's actually up tothe customer or the electrical
contractor to get a hold of himmax. And they can do that by
emailing get connected at him.
x.com And that's an MX you know,Will, Will will, will ensure
that they can, they cancorrectly service that, that
that new development. So in
Zack Hartle (25:13):
a situation such as that demarcation point, just to
be clear is where, essentiallyand Max's responsibility would
end from their conductor and itbecomes the homeowners or the
consumer service would takeplace. Okay, so in an
underground situation that wouldhappen at the meter base?
Adam Ghani (25:32):
No, it's a very good question in the City of Calgary.
For underground services,demarcation is actually the
property line. So it's not apoint of connection. Which is,
which is which is unique. So,yeah, and then for overhead
services, it's it's theWeatherhead. So just to
(25:53):
reiterate that, for undergroundservices, it's a property line.
And then over IT services, it'sthe weather had.
Zack Hartle (26:04):
Great. And then in a situation like that, you
mentioned contractor contactsand Max get connected@enmax.com,
just to ensure that they areyou. Okay, to install larger
demand at that point, theutility grid can support it,
would they need to submit printsto the city inspection
department, when are printsrequired to be submitted?
Adam Ghani (26:27):
Yeah, so we do plans examination for electrical
services that are 600 amps, orlarger, and commercial. We
don't, there are some, there area few electrical services that
are residential, in the City ofCalgary that are actually 600
amps or larger, but we don'trequire prints for that. And
(26:47):
then we do require prints forsolar PV also review
installations at this time. Andwe reserve the right to request
prints for complexinstallations. So if there's
something we've never seenbefore, or it's fairly complex,
and we want information upfront,to, you know, to to review, and
(27:11):
then compile for the safetycodes officer who's going to go
there on site, we can requestthat and underground
installations, whatnot andlarger to meet the, to meet the
section four undergroundrequirements, or the IEEE 35. We
want to know upfront that, youknow, we're either installing to
the prescriptive requirements inSection four, or if there's a
(27:34):
calculation being done to thestandard to the IEEE 35.
Underground standard. And soonce we, once we get all that
information, we review it andthen we attach it to the permit,
and the safety codes officer cango out and do their inspection
based on on what's compiledthere.
Jason Cox (27:54):
Alright, so a question that just kind of
popped into my head here that weprobably should have covered
earlier on when we're looking atpermitting. We always have
questions about fire alarmsystems. So do you need a
building permit? And a firealarm permit? Pardon me an
electrical permit? When do youneed both? When do you need one?
(28:15):
Can I call the TechnicalAssistance Center? And
basically, Adam, how does allthat work?
Adam Ghani (28:20):
Yeah, so generally, if we're doing any sort of fire
alarm work, we're going to needboth a building permit and an
electrical permit. There arevery few scenarios where you may
only need an electrical permit.
So what I recommend, as youpointed out, if you're unsure,
please call the TechnicalAssistance Center and ask to
speak to a building SEO. Andthey can, they can they can
(28:43):
discuss your specific scenariowith you and advise you on which
permits are required.
Jason Cox (28:51):
The 2021 Canadian electrical code comes into
adoption in Alberta, February 1of 2022. Adam, is there some
changes to that electrical codethat you'd like to kind of
mention?
Adam Ghani (29:08):
Yeah, so the biggest change in the 25th edition is
the deletion of table 39. And sonow, for residential services,
you would select a conductorfrom table two or four. And so
that's that's a major change.
And we're we're currentlyworking with MX on what that
(29:29):
looks like. Because with thedeep service program, they
generally supply number twoaluminum USCB, 90 or for wrought
aluminum USCB, 90 to two singlefamily dwellings to new
subdivisions. So that's, youknow, it's a major change and to
(29:49):
go to go up to bigger conductorsizes, is is going to be quite
quite an issue. So we're we'reGoing through that challenge
right now, I don't have a lot ofdetails for you guys. But I want
to come back with that. Foroverhead services, like if we're
doing a service upgrade. ininner city, it's generally
(30:10):
easier because the electriciancan just select what what
conductors, they're going toinstalls per table two and four.
And then they can go up in size,because the Weatherhead is the
utility demarcation point. Andso And Max can still keep their
triplex sizing, because that'sunder their utility code. So
(30:30):
that's under Part Three, or theAlberta utility code. So that's
the biggest change for for the20 21/25 edition electrical
code. And I will certainly keepyou guys posted on on how that
on on all the details and whatthat looks like, the future.
Jason Cox (30:56):
Okay, and that's great. Thank you so much for
that. What I'd also like to justclarify right now is you guys
will be inspecting based on the25th edition of the code. When
the permit is pulled afterFebruary 1, is that correct?
Adam Ghani (31:15):
That's correct. Yep.
Jason Cox (31:17):
Okay
Zack Hartle (31:18):
Adam, that's, that's great. Thank you so much
for coming on and chatting withus about everything we've
chatted about today, withinspections. Like you mentioned,
we're gonna hold you to that.
And we're gonna bring you backfor a follow up in probably
around February or something tosee what the plan is with
underground services. But Itruly do appreciate your time.
(31:38):
And thanks for coming on theshow today.
Unknown (31:42):
Excellent. Thanks, Jason. And thanks, Doc.
Appreciate it. Appreciate youhaving me on the show.
Jason Cox (31:48):
very appreciative today to have Adam on the show,
to have an hour of his time totalk to us about just the
processes and the procedures andwhat the inspection departments
like definitely, we get askedquestions about strange
situations all the time when itcomes to the code. And it was
nice to talk to an inspector andget his feedback on that. What
(32:11):
do you think Zack?
Zack Hartle (32:12):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think like you say, I'm
really appreciate the time fromAdam. And just having that time
with any inspector. I mean, theyhave such a wealth of knowledge
where they're going out, andthey're seeing so many different
installations. And I love thathe pointed out the the Technical
Assistance Center, right, makingthose inspectors available to
people doing the installationsin the field. So definitely an
(32:34):
asset that, I mean, hopefullysomeone learned about that today
and can use them moving forward.
Jason Cox (32:41):
Yeah, I think it's a great point. Like a lot of times
when we're looking at thoseweird code situations, now, it's
just gonna be simply call yoursafety codes officer, call 311.
Talk to someone in the TechnicalAssistance Center. Hey, if it's
fire alarm, you might havequestions about building
permits, and electrical permits.
So, so great, great topic ofconversation there today.
Zack Hartle (33:02):
What was the big takeaway for you?
Jason Cox (33:04):
Well, the orange, brown, yellow, of course, we
talked about it. And I rememberkind of looking at it, like
shaking my head, the first timeI started pulling orange, brown,
yellow 20 plus years ago. Soit'll be interesting to see in
the months to come how that'sadopted in the industry, if
everyone just quickly abandonsorange or brown, yellow, or if
(33:25):
they keep pulling it becausethey weren't aware of the
change. So it'll be neat to seehow that comes about it. It does
make sense. And it would be niceto have some sort of consistency
throughout our trade, not justin our city, but obviously
throughout the nation.
Zack Hartle (33:40):
Yeah, it's one of those interesting trade practice
conversations. I mean,technically, nothing's changing.
Now, we're just following thecode as it has always been
written. But yeah, I rememberbeing an apprentice and for
years, pulling a couple of yearspulling orange, brown, yellow,
only to go to school to findout, well, that's not right, to
then go back to site to be like,Oh, no, we always pull orange,
(34:02):
brown, yellow. So yeah, it's aninteresting application now and
trying to follow the wording ofthe CE code. So it's good to
see.
Jason Cox (34:11):
Yeah, and I mean, truthfully, now, back in my day,
we had giant 347/600 voltlighting panels. And those
panels might not be used hardlyat all anymore, at least to the
full capacity. They were in thepast just because of the changes
in LED lighting. So yeah, so wecontinue to learn and we'll look
(34:32):
forward to talking to Adamhopefully in the new year.
Zack Hartle (34:35):
Absolutely. And just also a big shout out to the
City of Calgary as a whole theywere very easy to deal with to
facilitate the recording of thispodcast. And we do appreciate
that, that openness and thatwillingness to come on the show.
And of course, also thanks toall of our listeners who are
here listening to this show.
Jason and I are here trying tobring relevant conversations and
(34:57):
we'd love to hear from you. WeWant to know what you want to
hear about? Please reach out tous, Facebook, Instagram. Let us
know what you want to hear abouton the show. You can connect
with both of us on LinkedIn ifyou want. And please make sure
you're subscribed Apple, GoogleSpotify, wherever you listen to
podcasts, and tell your friendsto get the word out there.
Jason Cox (35:20):
Just remember, this isn't a race to the bottom, it's
a race to the top. Make sure youpull your permits and work safe
and we'll see you guys on thenext episode.
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