October 4, 2022 • 13 mins
Join us for a special episode of Watt's the Word in honour of the first Electrical Injury Day of Recognition. This marks an important day for everyone in the industry to take a moment to reflect on electrical injury and the effect it can have on our lives.
Visit these links for more information:
ELECTRICAL INJURY DAY OF RECOGNITION - CECA
Episode No. 3 with John Knoll
Episode No. 14 with Terry Becker
Connect with us on Instagram or Facebook - @wattsthewordpodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zack Hartle (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to a special episode of Watt's
the Word I'm Zack Hartle. I'mjoined, as always by Jason Cox.
This week, October 6 2022, isthe first ever electrical injury
day of recognition. It's wherethe Canadian electrical industry
is coming together to try andraise awareness about the long
term consequences of electricshock exposure, a day where we
(00:23):
should all take a moment andsome time to think about the
effects of our actions in theworkplace. Jason and I are here
today to talk about what we'velearned in the last year and a
bit doing this podcast aboutelectrical injury, and how our
maybe our thoughts andperspectives have changed on
that over the last year. So,Jason, welcome.
Jason Cox (00:45):
Well, thanks, Zack, I think you're you're correct in
the way that you both you. And Ihave surprisingly learned a lot
over the last year with thepodcast, I say surprising,
because we are both veterans inthe electrical industry. And,
and it is a positive thing thatwe continue to learn. And that's
something that we hope to dowith the podcast. It's worth
(01:08):
noting that electrical injuriestake place in the construction
industry, not just electricians,but anyone involved in
electrical and constructionindustry, but also the general
public, right? Everyone works ina house or lives in a house that
has electricity. And there aregoing to be hazards that people
(01:28):
deal with. So it's importantthat people understand that the
injuries from electrical shockare something that they need to
pay attention to.
Zack Hartle (01:38):
Absolutely, and night, as we know, from Episode
Three talking with John Knoll,about sick CWLA. And these
injury right there is you needan expert opinion, in order to
diagnose electrical injury longterm, it can take one to five
years to come into effect. Soit's just and all of the
(02:02):
symptoms that can be caused byeven a single shock, you can get
injured, huge potential longterm consequences, right?
Psychological, neurological,physical impairment. years down
the road, I mean, it's a hugething that we all need to be
considering thinking about, andespecially reporting, we were
(02:22):
just kind of talking before wegot on the show hear about how
much more common reporting isgetting and how important to
continue reporting, electricshock and injury is,
Jason Cox (02:35):
well, that's a big part of it there too, right, the
attitudes in the industry havechanged quite a bit over the
last, I'm gonna say 20 yearswhere in the past, you would
take a shock or get a poke, andit would just be kind of a rite
of passage. However now, right,the CSA Z462 mandates that you
report, electrical shock. Andthis is something that we can
(02:58):
see on the Municipal Affairsprovincial website in Canada. So
we can see a list of thereported incidents, it doesn't
give a whole lot of informationon the specific injuries. It
does allude to some of them. Butonce again, it's the reporting
of the injuries. And I took alook at some of the statistics
for just the last three years.
And notice trends mostly due toCOVID. And, and how that had an
(03:22):
effect on all of society. But itwould be interesting to go back
and look at the statistics overover years or decades, because
I'm quite certain that thereporting aspect is something
that now is being encouraged.
Whereas in the past, it was justsomething that it wasn't just
(03:42):
talked about, it was a pat slapon the back and maybe a trip to
the bar for a story. Butdefinitely more information is
important. And one of the thingswe have to do is we have to
start reporting these incidents.
Zack Hartle (03:58):
Yeah, couldn't agree more. I think that's what
makes this day of recognition soimportant. I mean, you can see
some groups coming togetherhere. There's the Electrical
Contractors Association ofAlberta, Canadian Electrical
Contractors Association, theNational Electrical Trade
Council. There's a need in theindustry, there's an importance
(04:20):
in the industry to raiseawareness to bring this to
attention of everyone, right,where, you know, not just the
electrical industry, like yousay, and I think it's important
reporting is important. And Ithink also, maybe trying to
limit or reduce these electricshocks is also super important.
So one thing that we see in thatCSA is Z462 is the you must turn
(04:43):
it off unless I can't rememberthe words what are the words?
Jason Cox (04:48):
The key word is right. The work, if it's going
to be done live has to bejustified. Right and so without
getting really deep into rightWhat the CSA said 462 states.
All right, I'm just going to askyou put you on the spot Zack and
say, right, I'm going to tellyou that the power has to be
(05:10):
turned off. Anytime you're doingelectrical work, right? If you
need to work hot, you have toprove to me or justify to me
that it has to be done live. Sogive me an example that where
you would say, Jason, I have todo this live.
Zack Hartle (05:26):
So this isn't a question that has changed,
right? Over the years, likewe've talked about, I mean, 1015
years ago, it would have been,uh, oh, well, these 10 people
can't work while we turn offthis circuit because of their
computers. Right. But I don'tthink now that's a justifiable
reason for something like that,like in a downtown or commercial
office setting. I mean, really,we see the only reason in my
(05:50):
opinion would be some type oflife saving device, whether
you're, you know, taking offserver racks that are for, like
911 Call centers or somethinglike that, where there's
potential bigger risks byturning it off. So I think those
examples are few and farbetween. And I think that that's
a, it's a big change that's comethrough, and it's coming through
now as actually having to getthe customer involved in the
(06:14):
decision to work live, tellingthem informing them of the
risks. I remember, that was oneof the most interesting parts,
when we talked with TerryBecker, in Episode 14 of the
podcast, was kind of what he wassaying is now that there's a
responsibility, and even someliability of the customer, for
electrical work getting done,they have to sign off saying
(06:35):
they understand the risks, and,you know, sign on the dotted
line. So I think that's a hugestep forward in the right
direction. I think the biggestthing now is just getting
everybody to adopt that policy.
Jason Cox (06:47):
Yeah, and actually, you didn't give me the answer I
wanted. But what I was thinkingwas, right, like, when do
electricians need the powerturned on, and I was thinking,
I'm gonna like, what you'resaying makes total sense. If
turning off the circuit couldimpose a greater hazard them by
(07:08):
all means, then, then that'ssomething that needs to be
looked at, and thought outbefore the work process starts.
But the other thing I wouldthink about, and this is what
electricians say to me all thetime is you can't turn off the
circuit, I need it on so I cantroubleshoot. Right. But in both
of those situations, if it'sdeemed necessary and justified,
(07:28):
that the work will be done live,then that would take us all the
way into the other area of of ajob site assessment of how we're
going to do the work. And then,of course, that would also be
associated with PPE, and a wholebunch of checklists, right?
Zack Hartle (07:46):
And there's that mentality there like I didn't
even think for a moment abouttroubleshooting being done live
because to me, yeah, you dotroubleshooting. On a live
energize circuit, there's noteven that thought process of
hazard to me, which is, youknow, a problem and in the
industry and how it's been andhow we don't necessarily take
the steps when we, you know,pull out your voltmeter to go
(08:09):
troubleshoot a circuit. There ishuge hazards at play Sure,
you're not opening up splices ortying in big wires into
splitters or anything like that.
But there's still that, thathazard, just using a meter on a
circuit, right?
Jason Cox (08:24):
Absolutely. And I think we're all going to be
slowly changing the way we doand the way we do it and with
the way we approach certaintasks on a jobsite. So I don't
think everyone's going to cutthis cold turkey and turn
everything off because we got soaccustomed to doing things a
certain way. However, with like,days like today, and with more
(08:48):
information, right, you mightstart to change the way that you
do attempt a certain task on ajobsite so so of course, we want
you to turn everything off andfollow the legislation. But we
understand that I mean, thehabits that have been ingrained
in our trade for years, thattakes a lot for the trade and
(09:12):
industry if it's the same thingto start responding and making,
making safer decisions and howthey operate their businesses
and how they perform as tradespeople.
Zack Hartle (09:26):
And I think that I mean, the obvious, the obvious
answer to all of us performingbetter and working in those
safer conditions is to dosomething to eliminate those
shock hazards. And then ofcourse, educate ourselves and
what are the risks, how can weavoid the risks? And I think an
important step of that is beingaware of what are the long term
(09:48):
effects of electric shock? Youknow, we're, we've discussed an
arc flash isn't as common as weit's still a huge problem and
it's still something we need tobe aware of, but it's those
little shocks. The 120 voltshocks here and there that are
changing light ballasts, thingslike that that are that really
is, in my opinion, what this dayis all about is bringing
attention to those what we deemminor incidents that could have
(10:10):
major consequences.
Jason Cox (10:13):
Well, yeah, and we don't want to be little like arc
flash training and the injuriesinvolved with that. But I mean,
there was a time when, when justthe horrific nature of that
event was, was there to educateus, really to scare us into
following the rules. And one ofthe things that we took for
(10:34):
granted was the shock. And I, Irecently talked to a group of,
of people in the electricalindustry, and like
overwhelmingly, like, over 90%of them had admitted to been
being shocked on a job site. Andthat, I mean, it wasn't a big
surprise, but it was a reallybig number. And I mean, we never
(10:58):
thought about the possibleconsequences to being
electrically connected to acircuit that what what is that
shock doing to you? And as yousaid, back in our episode three
with John Knoll, right, Johndescribed to us some of the
consequences to being shocked.
And every person is different.
(11:20):
And every situation where youmake contact with an electrical
circuit, could be different. Sowe don't know what's gonna
happen when you are hit withelectricity. So we need to make
that something that people beginto become aware of. And like we
(11:43):
said earlier, change some of theideas and then educate people.
And of course, like, I alwayslike to rambling here a little
bit. But whenever I was in astressful situation on a job
site, I'd always like to kind ofrun through the procedures with
a colleague. So if I was in themiddle of a shutdown, I would be
(12:04):
talking to someone that Irespected, and basically someone
that you would put your put yourlife in their hands and say, did
we do this yet? Did we do this?
Did we do this check, check,check. I'm good. What do you
think and the person would checkall the same boxes as you. And
we would proceed to turn on orturn off the piece of equipment,
right. So as long as everyone'slearning together, then we can
(12:25):
make informed decisions togetheron safe work practices.
Zack Hartle (12:32):
I agree. I mean, all I think I can add to that,
as everyone who's listening tothis podcast, please take a look
in our description in the shownotes. We've got links to the
Canadian Electrical ContractorsAssociation, electrical industry
day of recognition website,where there's tons of more
information. We'll also putlinks to episode three and 14,
(12:55):
discussing the long term effectsof shock with John Knoll, and
then following it up with TerryBecker talking about how to, you
know work safer and be safer andget your dive into that Zed for
six to document a little bit.
Other than that, thank you somuch for listening. Now more
than ever, keep yourself safeout there and if you can someone
(13:15):
else to
Hello, and welcome to a special episode of Watt's
the Word I'm Zack Hartle. I'mjoined, as always by Jason Cox.
This week, October 6 2022, isthe first ever electrical injury
day of recognition. It's wherethe Canadian electrical industry
is coming together to try andraise awareness about the long
term consequences of electricshock exposure, a day where we
(00:23):
should all take a moment andsome time to think about the
effects of our actions in theworkplace. Jason and I are here
today to talk about what we'velearned in the last year and a
bit doing this podcast aboutelectrical injury, and how our
maybe our thoughts andperspectives have changed on
that over the last year. So,Jason, welcome.
Jason Cox (00:45):
Well, thanks, Zack, I think you're you're correct in
the way that you both you. And Ihave surprisingly learned a lot
over the last year with thepodcast, I say surprising,
because we are both veterans inthe electrical industry. And,
and it is a positive thing thatwe continue to learn. And that's
something that we hope to dowith the podcast. It's worth
(01:08):
noting that electrical injuriestake place in the construction
industry, not just electricians,but anyone involved in
electrical and constructionindustry, but also the general
public, right? Everyone works ina house or lives in a house that
has electricity. And there aregoing to be hazards that people
(01:28):
deal with. So it's importantthat people understand that the
injuries from electrical shockare something that they need to
pay attention to.
Zack Hartle (01:38):
Absolutely, and night, as we know, from Episode
Three talking with John Knoll,about sick CWLA. And these
injury right there is you needan expert opinion, in order to
diagnose electrical injury longterm, it can take one to five
years to come into effect. Soit's just and all of the
(02:02):
symptoms that can be caused byeven a single shock, you can get
injured, huge potential longterm consequences, right?
Psychological, neurological,physical impairment. years down
the road, I mean, it's a hugething that we all need to be
considering thinking about, andespecially reporting, we were
(02:22):
just kind of talking before wegot on the show hear about how
much more common reporting isgetting and how important to
continue reporting, electricshock and injury is,
Jason Cox (02:35):
well, that's a big part of it there too, right, the
attitudes in the industry havechanged quite a bit over the
last, I'm gonna say 20 yearswhere in the past, you would
take a shock or get a poke, andit would just be kind of a rite
of passage. However now, right,the CSA Z462 mandates that you
report, electrical shock. Andthis is something that we can
(02:58):
see on the Municipal Affairsprovincial website in Canada. So
we can see a list of thereported incidents, it doesn't
give a whole lot of informationon the specific injuries. It
does allude to some of them. Butonce again, it's the reporting
of the injuries. And I took alook at some of the statistics
for just the last three years.
And notice trends mostly due toCOVID. And, and how that had an
(03:22):
effect on all of society. But itwould be interesting to go back
and look at the statistics overover years or decades, because
I'm quite certain that thereporting aspect is something
that now is being encouraged.
Whereas in the past, it was justsomething that it wasn't just
(03:42):
talked about, it was a pat slapon the back and maybe a trip to
the bar for a story. Butdefinitely more information is
important. And one of the thingswe have to do is we have to
start reporting these incidents.
Zack Hartle (03:58):
Yeah, couldn't agree more. I think that's what
makes this day of recognition soimportant. I mean, you can see
some groups coming togetherhere. There's the Electrical
Contractors Association ofAlberta, Canadian Electrical
Contractors Association, theNational Electrical Trade
Council. There's a need in theindustry, there's an importance
(04:20):
in the industry to raiseawareness to bring this to
attention of everyone, right,where, you know, not just the
electrical industry, like yousay, and I think it's important
reporting is important. And Ithink also, maybe trying to
limit or reduce these electricshocks is also super important.
So one thing that we see in thatCSA is Z462 is the you must turn
(04:43):
it off unless I can't rememberthe words what are the words?
Jason Cox (04:48):
The key word is right. The work, if it's going
to be done live has to bejustified. Right and so without
getting really deep into rightWhat the CSA said 462 states.
All right, I'm just going to askyou put you on the spot Zack and
say, right, I'm going to tellyou that the power has to be
(05:10):
turned off. Anytime you're doingelectrical work, right? If you
need to work hot, you have toprove to me or justify to me
that it has to be done live. Sogive me an example that where
you would say, Jason, I have todo this live.
Zack Hartle (05:26):
So this isn't a question that has changed,
right? Over the years, likewe've talked about, I mean, 1015
years ago, it would have been,uh, oh, well, these 10 people
can't work while we turn offthis circuit because of their
computers. Right. But I don'tthink now that's a justifiable
reason for something like that,like in a downtown or commercial
office setting. I mean, really,we see the only reason in my
(05:50):
opinion would be some type oflife saving device, whether
you're, you know, taking offserver racks that are for, like
911 Call centers or somethinglike that, where there's
potential bigger risks byturning it off. So I think those
examples are few and farbetween. And I think that that's
a, it's a big change that's comethrough, and it's coming through
now as actually having to getthe customer involved in the
(06:14):
decision to work live, tellingthem informing them of the
risks. I remember, that was oneof the most interesting parts,
when we talked with TerryBecker, in Episode 14 of the
podcast, was kind of what he wassaying is now that there's a
responsibility, and even someliability of the customer, for
electrical work getting done,they have to sign off saying
(06:35):
they understand the risks, and,you know, sign on the dotted
line. So I think that's a hugestep forward in the right
direction. I think the biggestthing now is just getting
everybody to adopt that policy.
Jason Cox (06:47):
Yeah, and actually, you didn't give me the answer I
wanted. But what I was thinkingwas, right, like, when do
electricians need the powerturned on, and I was thinking,
I'm gonna like, what you'resaying makes total sense. If
turning off the circuit couldimpose a greater hazard them by
(07:08):
all means, then, then that'ssomething that needs to be
looked at, and thought outbefore the work process starts.
But the other thing I wouldthink about, and this is what
electricians say to me all thetime is you can't turn off the
circuit, I need it on so I cantroubleshoot. Right. But in both
of those situations, if it'sdeemed necessary and justified,
(07:28):
that the work will be done live,then that would take us all the
way into the other area of of ajob site assessment of how we're
going to do the work. And then,of course, that would also be
associated with PPE, and a wholebunch of checklists, right?
Zack Hartle (07:46):
And there's that mentality there like I didn't
even think for a moment abouttroubleshooting being done live
because to me, yeah, you dotroubleshooting. On a live
energize circuit, there's noteven that thought process of
hazard to me, which is, youknow, a problem and in the
industry and how it's been andhow we don't necessarily take
the steps when we, you know,pull out your voltmeter to go
(08:09):
troubleshoot a circuit. There ishuge hazards at play Sure,
you're not opening up splices ortying in big wires into
splitters or anything like that.
But there's still that, thathazard, just using a meter on a
circuit, right?
Jason Cox (08:24):
Absolutely. And I think we're all going to be
slowly changing the way we doand the way we do it and with
the way we approach certaintasks on a jobsite. So I don't
think everyone's going to cutthis cold turkey and turn
everything off because we got soaccustomed to doing things a
certain way. However, with like,days like today, and with more
(08:48):
information, right, you mightstart to change the way that you
do attempt a certain task on ajobsite so so of course, we want
you to turn everything off andfollow the legislation. But we
understand that I mean, thehabits that have been ingrained
in our trade for years, thattakes a lot for the trade and
(09:12):
industry if it's the same thingto start responding and making,
making safer decisions and howthey operate their businesses
and how they perform as tradespeople.
Zack Hartle (09:26):
And I think that I mean, the obvious, the obvious
answer to all of us performingbetter and working in those
safer conditions is to dosomething to eliminate those
shock hazards. And then ofcourse, educate ourselves and
what are the risks, how can weavoid the risks? And I think an
important step of that is beingaware of what are the long term
(09:48):
effects of electric shock? Youknow, we're, we've discussed an
arc flash isn't as common as weit's still a huge problem and
it's still something we need tobe aware of, but it's those
little shocks. The 120 voltshocks here and there that are
changing light ballasts, thingslike that that are that really
is, in my opinion, what this dayis all about is bringing
attention to those what we deemminor incidents that could have
(10:10):
major consequences.
Jason Cox (10:13):
Well, yeah, and we don't want to be little like arc
flash training and the injuriesinvolved with that. But I mean,
there was a time when, when justthe horrific nature of that
event was, was there to educateus, really to scare us into
following the rules. And one ofthe things that we took for
(10:34):
granted was the shock. And I, Irecently talked to a group of,
of people in the electricalindustry, and like
overwhelmingly, like, over 90%of them had admitted to been
being shocked on a job site. Andthat, I mean, it wasn't a big
surprise, but it was a reallybig number. And I mean, we never
(10:58):
thought about the possibleconsequences to being
electrically connected to acircuit that what what is that
shock doing to you? And as yousaid, back in our episode three
with John Knoll, right, Johndescribed to us some of the
consequences to being shocked.
And every person is different.
(11:20):
And every situation where youmake contact with an electrical
circuit, could be different. Sowe don't know what's gonna
happen when you are hit withelectricity. So we need to make
that something that people beginto become aware of. And like we
(11:43):
said earlier, change some of theideas and then educate people.
And of course, like, I alwayslike to rambling here a little
bit. But whenever I was in astressful situation on a job
site, I'd always like to kind ofrun through the procedures with
a colleague. So if I was in themiddle of a shutdown, I would be
(12:04):
talking to someone that Irespected, and basically someone
that you would put your put yourlife in their hands and say, did
we do this yet? Did we do this?
Did we do this check, check,check. I'm good. What do you
think and the person would checkall the same boxes as you. And
we would proceed to turn on orturn off the piece of equipment,
right. So as long as everyone'slearning together, then we can
(12:25):
make informed decisions togetheron safe work practices.
Zack Hartle (12:32):
I agree. I mean, all I think I can add to that,
as everyone who's listening tothis podcast, please take a look
in our description in the shownotes. We've got links to the
Canadian Electrical ContractorsAssociation, electrical industry
day of recognition website,where there's tons of more
information. We'll also putlinks to episode three and 14,
(12:55):
discussing the long term effectsof shock with John Knoll, and
then following it up with TerryBecker talking about how to, you
know work safer and be safer andget your dive into that Zed for
six to document a little bit.
Other than that, thank you somuch for listening. Now more
than ever, keep yourself safeout there and if you can someone
(13:15):
else to
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