July 12, 2021 • 40 mins
Join electricians Zack Hartle and Jason Cox on the inaugural episode of Watt's the Word Podcast. They will be joined by electrical code Instructor David Myers. He will talk about his journey in the trade, opportunities it has provided him, and finally share the significant changes in the electrical code.
The 25th edition of the Canadian Electrical Code was published January 2021 and (in Alberta) will come into effect February 2022.
Leave us a review or comment to let us know if you like this episode and to leave suggestions for future episodes.
Connect with us on Instagram or Facebook - @wattsthewordpodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zack Hartle (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Watt's the Word Podcast.
I'm Zack Hartle your host alongwith your co host here, Jason
Cox. This is a show connectingthe electrical industry through
relevant conversations. Our goalis to hear your story, learn
stories, learn from guests whoare passionate about the
electrical industry. We're veryexcited to be here today. For
(00:21):
our very first episode, we'regoing to be talking with David
Myers about his journey in theelectrical trade, what drives
him, and he's going to sharewith us some of the new changes
to the electrical code. So hereto introduce our guests is Jason
Cox.
Jason Cox (00:38):
Well, thank you for the intro, Zack. I'm excited to
be here. And I'm excited to beon the first podcast and
introduce Dave Meyers, who is asubject matter expert on the
Canadian electrical code. SoDave, nice to see you.
David Myers (00:51):
Hello, folks.
Thanks for the intro. Yeah,let's get started. I'm a born
and raised Calgarian. Lots ofwork experience in electrical
my, my first work experienceother than a paper routes was
was a pizza place that I startedin high school. And that was
actually a, you know, there forthree and a half years. But I
began my electrical career in in2002. I started with a small
(01:14):
family home, or a small familyowned company. We did a pretty
good mix of a lot of differentstuff. It was mostly residential
focused, but it was customhomes. So lots of interesting
sort of problem solving, whatshould we do about this type of
stuff. And we did some smallcommercial didn't really get any
larger commercial experiencewith them. So after about six
(01:38):
years, finishing myapprenticeship with that
company, I moved to a largerfirm, working downtown on some
of the high rises and a large, alarge mall renovation, this is
all in Calgary. In 2009, Istarted as an instructor at a
polytechnic or what was apolytechnic at the time I
suppose in in Calgary calledSAIT. And I've been there ever
(02:00):
since. I've had a lot ofexperience with pretty much all
of the courses that they thatthey offer. And I've been
fortunate to be very involved ina lot of the stuff that happens
with the electrical code.
Zack Hartle (02:16):
Why did you get into electrical? Because I want
to know why people actuallychose electrical or how they got
that job, right? I mean, lots ofpeople fall into it. Lots of
people want to do it.
David Myers (02:25):
Yep. It was sort of a mix of both for me. When I was
right after high school, I had agood high school friend of mine
and the day high school ended,he walked straight into his
apprenticeship. And of course, Icontinued working at a pizza
place for another year. And thenI obviously watched him working
better shifts and making bettermoney and seemed to be enjoying
(02:48):
the work a bit more. So after afew discussions with him, I
decided that electrical would bethe right fit for an
apprenticeship. And anapprenticeship would be the
right fit for me. So back thenit was, you know, I didn't have
any connections in the industry.
That one person I knew thecompany wasn't hiring. So it was
yellow pages, which for youryounger listeners is a phone
(03:11):
directory that we used to usethat was printed on yellow
paper. So it was scrollingthrough the Yellow Pages and
cold calling companies anddropping off resumes until I got
picked up by that that smallercompany that I mentioned at the
beginning.
Zack Hartle (03:29):
Nice. Yeah, no, it's yeah, it's funny how Yeah,
it's usually a friend who getsyou in or something like that.
But no, that's awesome.
Jason Cox (03:39):
We've definitely come a long ways when it comes to
applying for jobs now, goingback. I mean, I we used to look
back on newspapers, right. So inthe newspaper, The Calgary
Herald on Saturdays, the careersection, that's where you would
go to find jobs. And I mean,you'd be hard pressed now just
to find a newspaper. Right. Soyeah, it's crazy. How time
changes and, and yeah, we justmove on, right? Yep.
David Myers (04:03):
Yeah, it's, I think, uh, going through like
the indeed.ca. And all thatstuff that they use now would,
would be a pretty quick way ofgetting jobs. You see them
listed all over the internetnow. So absolutely.
Zack Hartle (04:18):
Okay, so David, you're you're teaching at SAIT?
You've been there for a whilenow, you started out? What What
would you say? You know, a lotof our listeners, maybe you're
just getting into the trade orare thinking about coming into
the trade? We don't really know.
But what do you say are some ofthe opportunities that you know,
the electrical trade or evenjust trades in general can give
someone right, you worked at apizza place and then you got
(04:38):
into the trade? What, what makesthat special? What should bring
other people into the trades?
For sure.
David Myers (04:45):
So I've had you know, I've had a very enjoyable
career. And all of it is relatedto the trades and the trade,
electrical specifically.
Countless opportunity These,I've had the ability to travel,
I've met all kinds of excitingpeople, I've had the ability to
learn all kinds of new skills,from the apprenticeship and
(05:09):
where I learned technicalskills, to going to a different
company a different job whereI've had to, or where I've got
to learn even more skills, andthen coming to seats, where I've
had to learn how to teach andhow to use a computer and all
these things that I had neverdone in the field. Other
opportunities that have,specifically from from
(05:32):
electrical, I've been parts oflots of different code,
discussions with people from allover the province, with
municipal inspectors with thepeople who write the codebook
with leaders of industry. And myexperience with code and my
experience with the trade haveput me in a spot where I'm a
(05:56):
relevant part of thatconversation. And it's a pretty
special feeling to be sittingthere with, with all these
people and, and be part of thediscussion. So yeah, things like
that. Another, you know, a sidebenefit that I would, you know,
suggest for anyone in the trade.
I'm a big advocate for, forpeople that wouldn't normally
(06:18):
consider the trades to try it.
You know, some women, forexample, you can learn so much
from a few years of technicalexperience, and it's skills that
will serve you for your wholelife. Running the house, not
running the house, maintainingthings around the house, fixing
things that break, knowing whichthings are okay for me to fix.
(06:43):
And I'm not going to endanger myfamily or anything like that.
And knowing which ones that Ishould probably leave to the
professionals, that's all skillsthat I've picked up from, you
know, eight, nine years of handson technical trade knowledge,
and that's something that willserve me for the rest of my
(07:03):
life. And it's something that Ithink a lot of young people
could gain a lot of independencefrom, you know, if you can fix
things in your own house, or fixsomething on your car, or
whatever it may be. A there's agood feeling that comes from
that. And B it means it's, it'sa phone call, you don't have to
make to, uh, to a friend or toaccompany or something like
(07:26):
that. So
Zack Hartle (07:30):
absolutely, that's something I always focused on
when working with apprentices islike, knowing when to ask for
help. Like, it's really cool totry things, but you got to know
when, where's the line? Right?
Where do you when do you need toget a journeyman or someone more
experienced or call accompanylike you say, if it's at your
own house? So that's reallygood.
David Myers (07:50):
Yeah, you know, the, the correlation between
safety, public safety andquality of work with electrical
specifically is always somethingI've been very passionate about.
You know, when, when we getsomething wrong, we're putting
the public at risk. And so therequirements to do things right
(08:14):
is so obviously apparent andelectrical. And I've learned a
lot from that type of thing. Onthe flip side, a lot of our work
is concealed. And, you know, ina lot of cases, it's it's not
like carpentry where everythinghas to go together absolutely
perfectly. So there's a lot ofopportunity to make it so that
(08:36):
it doesn't. But then when you dothat you bring in some unseen,
terrifying public safety riskfrom electric shock or fire or
whatever it may be.
Jason Cox (08:48):
Yeah. Well, getting back to what you were saying
earlier, Dave, starting anapprenticeship, what an
experience just to start like asa young, young adult, right,
just being, I mean, thrown intothat situation, learning with,
with colleagues, with with yourmentor. Those are skills that
(09:10):
are beneficial for the rest ofyour life. I'm not trying to get
people out of the electricalindustry. But I mean, what a
what a Segway, you can startoff, learn some, some self self
knowledge, learn some handskills, get an overview. It's an
incredible opportunity to reallyit's a great development tool
(09:30):
for young adult.
David Myers (09:31):
It is and the people that you are surrounded
with when you start anapprenticeship. You know, if
you're 1819 years old, you walkonto a job site starting an
apprenticeship. You are therewith professionals who want to
be there. And that's notsomething that you're gonna get
in a lot of other jobs outthere. You know, if I don't want
(09:54):
to single out any industries oranything like that, but a lot of
jobs that an 1819 year old wouldtake on whether it's laborer or
whatever it might be, you wouldbe surrounded, you wouldn't be
surrounded by, by focused drivenprofessional people and in an
apprenticeship and in myexperience in the electrical
apprenticeship, that issomething that, that you can get
(10:17):
a lot from just by itself, theway to interact professionally,
the way to interact withcustomers, the way you interact
with other trades on site.
Watching people who are careerdriven at a young age and
spending a lot of time with themat a young age, will serve you
for the rest of your life, I'vealways believed that.
Jason Cox (10:40):
I would 100% Agree.
Zack Hartle (10:43):
So you're Dave, 12 years now at sait. What, what
keeps you there, what holds youat sait? What drives you to keep
going to be an instructor everyday?
David Myers (10:54):
What what drives me to keep being productive, I
suppose would be the word that Iuse, because, you know, I work
with a lot of people who I wouldcall innovative. And I'm more of
the other end where I'm justsort of nose to the grindstone
and just sort of keep doingthings and, and sort of keep at
(11:15):
it. I suppose the biggest thingthat keeps me productive, or the
biggest driver for me is, isfinding new or different ways to
explain concepts. And I findthat that leads to the creation
of content and all sorts offruitful discussions with
colleagues and students. I alsofind that code drives me I'm I'm
constantly amazed at how muchtechnical required technical
(11:38):
knowledge is required to oneunderstand the codebook. And to
to adapt and implement it. Youknow, I've worked with the code
in one form or another for 19years. And I'm still finding
things that I misunderstood, I'mstill finding things that I
didn't know about in the firstplace. And a document like that,
(11:58):
you know, where CSA sort ofconsiders it their flagship
documents, that's CanadianStandards Association, the
publishers of the codebook. Thatsort of stuff I find, keeps me
on my toes and keeps me adaptingand changing and trying new
things and doing more stuff andsort of keeps me going and
(12:21):
getting me up in the morning.
Zack Hartle (12:23):
And luckily, you get a new book every three years
now, so that
David Myers (12:26):
another one to learn every few years. You bet,
right.
Jason Cox (12:30):
So Dave, one of the questions I have is, What would
you recommend to electriciansthat are working in the field,
for them to better understand orinterpret some of those code
rules,
David Myers (12:44):
if you're working in the field, but it's very hard
to sit down with the codebookfor two, three hours of of your
own time, because everyone'sbusy. And it's even harder to
spend two, three hours of yourcompany time or the time on the
job site, to really understandthe codebook, I find most people
in the field become very wellversed with the parts of the
(13:06):
code that they deal with. So ifyou're doing commercial, you
know, you'll you'll know quite alot about transformers and how
to do all the grounding andbonding and things like that.
But then you come to school, andyou have to do some of the
residential codes. And it can bea bit of a struggle. Probably
the biggest thing I could adviseis, is taking some courses,
(13:27):
there's there's all kinds ofnight courses available, there's
weekend courses that can betaken at a whole bunch of
different places. And as a sidebenefit with with the pandemic,
and what's going on with that,that has opened up courses all
over the country that will sortof keep you going through code.
The other thing is, is to getinvolved, you know, you can
(13:48):
become a member of the ECA. Youknow, or the PAC, the provincial
Advisory Committee and there'salways code discussions that
happen in those meetings.
There's also a whole bunch ofother conferences that happen
throughout the year, where youcan hear live code discussions
with professionals that dealwith it. Day in and day out.
(14:10):
That will probably the biggestthing I could advise because
I've been there I've tried tojust straight up read the
codebook and understand it andwithout actually working with
it. It's it's a very difficultthing to do. Well, thanks. Yeah,
it's
Jason Cox (14:30):
it's crazy. I mean, that's a really big book. And I
mean, I've often told peopleover the years, when they talked
about our trade, and they say,Oh, your trades easy or make
their comments. I go yeah, youjust have to learn this entire
book. Right. And that seems tokind of hold them in their place
for a moment there. Yeah,there's a lot of information in
there and you're 100% Correct.
Teams, our trade gets reallysegmented and people become
(14:53):
specialists in certain areas, sothey become well versed with
certain areas of the code. YouYep,
Zack Hartle (15:01):
yeah, definitely remember many of the almost
arguments on site about how todo something, you know, whether
it came to you got to do a voltdrop calculation, which you
haven't done since fourth yearschool. And you and co workers
are all sitting around the lunchtable arguing about how to do
the calculation properly. Andit's, it's funny, and then the
one person, of course, pulls up.
Well, I guess there was nosmartphones back then. But
someone's nowadays would justpull out their smartphone and do
(15:23):
the calculation. But I guesswithout understanding the
reasoning behind thatcalculation, too, and how that
calculation is made, it's kindof pointless.
David Myers (15:32):
Well, and even from the academic perspective, that
doesn't fit the field and theacademic perspective, you know,
this is a bit of a deep dive forthose of us that aren't super
involved with code. But theacademic perspective, volt drop
is 3%. In the field, it'susually two. And it's usually
two because you're doing voltagedrop for long feeders and
services and things like that.
And used to there so that youcan have three on your, on your
(15:55):
branch circuits and things likethat. So that's just another
example of where the academicside doesn't quite fit in. With
the field side.
Jason Cox (16:08):
So Dave, one of the things you were you're
mentioning there, just thestruggles with the electrical
and in the interpretation, isthere, is there something that
you've run across over theyears, that seems to be the
biggest struggle for students?
I'm just gonna say, right offthe bat, that volt drop
calculation might be, might beone of the tough ones. But is
there anything that comes tomind?
David Myers (16:27):
volt drop for sure.
In fourth period, that's always,you know, we cover that here in
fourth period, technicaltraining. And it's just it's
such a different thing. Andit's, it's a very involved
calculation, and it, it doesn'tmake that much sense. One of the
other things that I find aconsistent struggle with is the
application of continuousloading. You know, and I think
(16:50):
it comes about because we coverderating factors first. And when
you do derating factors, theprocedure is to divide first and
then multiply, and then we getto continuous loads, and you
just divide by 80%. And youdon't multiply it back out. And,
and the understanding for bothseems to evaporate, right at
that moment in time. Those seemto be the two code things that
(17:14):
we seem to have to go back overthe most, you know, motor supply
conductors, which it's such aninfinite decimal thing that
doesn't even matter. It's almostnever a different wire size. And
we struggle with it so much.
(17:35):
Those are probably the three keythings that pop out for me, as
you know, those are the thingsthat I'm up a little late the
night before thinking aboutbefore I have to do them for
sure.
Jason Cox (17:46):
Yeah, I still have flashbacks. So that of the role
dropped calculations back in theday and making the effort to
write like very good notes in mycode book this remember, this is
how this works. And what themost basic example right, so. So
yeah. Oh, I mean, if that's ifthat's what you're running
across, I guess it's good thatI'm finding those same
(18:07):
challenges. Yep.
Zack Hartle (18:11):
So I guess you're spending all your time right
now. With the 2021 codebook. Weknow it came out, I think,
February 1 2021, and comes intoor January 1 2021. It comes into
effect, January or February, oneyear later. So 2022. So you're
working on that now big changesin that book? Well, not not
(18:31):
huge. I, from my understanding,I haven't looked into it a ton.
But one of the things thateveryone notices, there's no
index now, what are yourthoughts?
David Myers (18:39):
So in regards to the index, that's probably going
to depend on which codebook youhave. So here's the thing is, I
have a printed copy of the 21codebook. There is no index, and
there is a little note sayingwhy they've deleted it. If you
go on CSAs website and log inand get the free online version,
(19:04):
the index has been added back inand it's been updated and
accurate. So I do expect thatfuture print versions will keep
the index and I certainly hopeso I am for it. I think not
having it erodes the quality ofthe documents. And I think
especially when the reasonsbehind it are it's too complex
(19:25):
and too complicated and cost toomuch to produce an index. You
know, when you're still sellinga what are they now over $200
book. I think the index shouldbe there and it should never
have gone away in the firstplace. I understand that. You
know, from our perspective, wedo a lot of it with the soft
copy. But that's just notrealistic for people in the
(19:47):
field. And it's not realisticfor people writing exams, at
least not for some time. Sohaving the ability to search
isn't a real you know, Ctrl F orwhatever it is to search that's
not a Real thing for most peoplein the industry. So I'm very
happy to see it come back. Ihope that's actually what
they're intending to do. And I,every time I run one of our code
(20:12):
updating what's new in the codecourses, I'm always asking to
see if the students haveversions with an index in them.
As of yet, they don't care as ofthe last one. They don't. So I
do expect to see a few versionsof the print, just like the last
book, everyone will havedifferent page numbers. And I'm
hoping to see the index put backin there as well. So that's my
(20:35):
thoughts on the index. I supposeeveryone probably could feel
different about it. But I thinkwe're in the worst case scenario
now where from an instructionalperspective, at least half of
our students are going to havean index and the other half
aren't. So
Jason Cox (20:54):
Oh, all right. So Dave, when I looked at this new
codebook, briefly, I've been inthe trade now for I think it's
25 years. And so these codebooks have progressively gotten
bigger and bigger and bigger,the bindings have changed. And
they've been pretty similar forthe last couple of years. But I
(21:14):
looked at this new codebook. AndI was initially excited because
it was last page numbers, I didrealize it was missing, missing
the index. But then I kind oflooked at it a little more
carefully. And it looks likeeither I'm getting older, or
some of that text is gettingsmaller in some of the tables.
David Myers (21:33):
Yeah, the way they printed the tables is a little
different than the 21 book. Ihaven't noticed it quite as much
just because I've been using thesoft copy for almost everything.
But yeah, there's there'sespecially you know, the new
table six, if you've seen thatone? Sure. I designed a few
questions based on that table.
And Holy smokes, I got threedifferent answers to the same
(21:56):
question all three times. Andthat's because I was doing it,
you know, or I was finding thewrong spot in the table. Because
the new table six, if youhaven't seen it, is a solid
block of numbers. And it's easyto just, you know, point to the
wrong spot and end up with thewrong answer. So definitely some
changes in how the tables look.
(22:20):
I think the font remain the samefrom the 2018 book, if I
remember, right, I think theychanged fonts from 15 to 18.
Jason Cox (22:29):
Yeah, the real numbers look very similar, like
I without really examining it,but I did notice some of the
organization of the tables andthe font size is clearly
different than some of thosetables and the way that they're
laid out. Now it was a littledifferent to So reluctantly
wearing glasses now andfollowing like you said, with a
(22:50):
ruler to make sure that I'mfollowing the same column. Yeah,
David Myers (22:55):
well, for how much we use table six, even in the
field, right, table six, ifyou're, if you're not familiar,
is the table we use to sizeconduits to fit wires, and very
commonly used in the fields verycommonly used at school, you
know, some highlights across thetable to make sure you're on the
right line and right columnwould be would be well served
(23:15):
there for sure. All right,
Zack Hartle (23:17):
so we've got table six has changed. I think what
what else matters, you know,what else? What are the big
changes that we are lookinginto? Right? I mean, you are, as
you mentioned, teach the What'sNew in the code course, but what
are the big ones that are goingto affect? I guess, everyday
electricians, you know,
David Myers (23:33):
you bet. So, if this will be a very short, you
know, very just a hey, heads up,these are the changes, you know,
and if you do want all of thechanges and how they work and
calculation examples, you know,and your listeners, I would
recommend taking a code updatingcourse, there's quite a few on
(23:55):
offer. If you're a masterelectrician in Alberta, you're
gonna have to take one. But evenif you're not even if you're a
journeyman or a very interestedin apprentice journey person or
very interested apprentice,there's lots of these courses on
offer. sate offers one. It'scalled the What's New in the
code, if you search for it onstate's website, it's about six
(24:17):
hours, there's a little quiz atthe end, we cover every
meaningful change in the wholecodebook. For here, I've just
sort of gone through and said,Okay, look, these are the ones
that affect the most people. Andso I'm not gonna go through the
rule numbers or any of thatstuff. I'm just gonna say, hey,
heads up, this is coming.
February 2022 is when it'sadopted in Alberta and enforce,
(24:37):
so any permits pulled after thatdate. This is the stuff that you
guys should be aware of. Sofirst things first, we got flood
requirements throughout sectiontwo, section six section 26.
They've defined a flood hazardzone. Very, very similar to the
requirements that have been inCalgary since 2013. So now
(24:57):
they're in our electoral code.
So just a heads up that that'swhere you can find those
requirements now, and it's stillup to the municipality as to
whether or not somethingrequires flood mitigation, but
it is listed in code. Anotherthing that came up is table 39,
which was a state strange tablefor sizing residential services
(25:23):
and feeders they've deleted thatthey've gotten rid of it. In
regards to residentialpanelboards, there was a big
archaic rule in Section eightfor a whole pile of stuff,
they've deleted it andsimplified that, they simply say
you need a certain number ofempty spaces leftover at the end
of the job. Easy, the number ofoutlets per circuit has changed.
(25:50):
So in the past, it was 12.
Nonstop, and that was that nowit's, you can have more
depending on the type ofovercurrent device you have. So
you can get more than 12 outletson a on a 20 amp circuit, for
example. There's a few otherallowances in there. There's
something that we should all beaware of. And we should all be
asking people about. If you readin Section 12. It looks like it
(26:11):
requires ft six flame test sixLumix in the in cold air
returns. So last I checked Lumexwas ft four I think so just
something that needs to be askedthere in the in the memorandum
of revision in the codediscussions that go into these
(26:32):
changes. They did say that therewas no change in intent, but in
the wording of the rule, itcertainly looks to have have
changed. So you guys will needto be having some discussions
about the type of Lumex that yourun through cold air returns in
houses. So table 19, they'vecompletely changed that as well.
They deleted it, rewrote it, theold table 19 had 39 or 37 notes
(26:52):
at the bottom. There are nownone. So it's much better and
much simpler to use. Forresidential, there's one really
big one, when you're runningLumix down the side of a stud
for example, to three gangswitch or something like that,
you now have to keep that Lumexback 32 millimeters from the
(27:13):
front edge from the drywall theedge of a stud. So if you know a
two by four is about 84millimeters wide. Take 32 from
each side, you're left withabout one inch in the middle of
it, you can staple 24millimeters or so in the middle
of that you can staple so a fourgang switch a three gang switch
anything where you got a lot ofwires going down the same stud
(27:34):
space, I do believe there arebrackets available, but you'll
have to buy those brackets now.
So for you residential folks outthere, that's going to be a big
one for us for sure. With thatthey've put in a relaxation for
Lumex and conduits if you're outthere doing a lot of hot tubs or
something like that, and youwant to run the number six and a
(27:55):
conduit where it leaves thehouse in the 21 codebook it's
very clearly worded that you canwhereas in the 18 codebook it
sort of pretty well says thatyou can't
conduit sizing has not changedin terms of what size conduit
you'll get for the most part butthere's no longer a quick lookup
(28:15):
for conduit sizing we used to beable to use table six just
straight up, plunk your fingerdown you can get eight wires and
a three quarter inch and justoff you go there is now a three
table requirements and thecalculation required every time
you size conduit. So that willbe a bit of a frustration. Of
course when I say three tables,one of them as table eight it's
(28:37):
always 40% Pretty much but youknow that's not true. If you
have two wires in a conduitthough it's it's different.
Right? So a little bit moreinvolved for for conduit sizing.
barns, livestock buildings, theclassification has been very
stringently identified inSection 22. So if you're doing a
(28:59):
lot of farm work or rural work,just be very aware of what's
happened with that. There wasapparently some fires and a lot
of lost livestock. And sothey've really stringently
worded how they've done thatnow. Secondary suites, there has
been some pedal board and branchcircuit relaxations for
secondary suites. So, again,pretty similar to what we've
(29:22):
been doing in the City ofCalgary, but now it's in our
codebook for you largerresidential and commercial
folks, every 15 or 20 ampreceptacle outside requires GFCI
so all your car stalls, all thatstuff that didn't need them in
the past. You're going to needGFCI protection on that stuff.
(29:44):
So that's a big one for a lot ofcompanies out there. The
lighting requirements in Section30 For dwelling units you need
to light in the bedroom mutilatein the living room, all that
stuff. It's all gone deleted.
That doesn't mean therequirements are gone. They were
duplicated requirements from thebuilding ENCODE. So just a heads
up in regards to that, you stillneed all those lights in the
same places, you just can't findwhere in the codebook, it tells
(30:07):
you to put them. And then sortof an interesting one. I don't
know how many people this willaffect, but I want to kind of
get the word out and have adiscussion with as many people
as I can about it. They've takenall the battery requirements,
storage batteries from section26 and moved them to Section 64.
Section 64 Being renewableenergy systems. A you an
(30:30):
uninterruptible power supply, orUPS is not a renewable energy
system. So there's norequirements go to section 64
For that, yet, those still use alot of batteries. And so as of
right now, there's reallynowhere in the codebook, for how
to install batteries forsomething that's not a renewable
(30:53):
energy system. So just somethingthat I want to get the word out
there and get people thinkingabout and start asking some
questions so that we can getsome answers on that and, and
things like that. So those are,those are the ones that I sort
of picked out that that willaffect the most people.
Obviously, there are hundredsand hundreds of changes from the
18th to the 21 book. Andobviously, there's more
(31:17):
technical wording that needs tobe said about all those things
that I mentioned, I just wantedto sort of throw them out.
Zack Hartle (31:26):
Absolutely, it's, it's interesting. I mean, I
remember working out in thefield, and new code books always
came out. And you just you onlyheard about things as they
mattered. So I think that yourpoint about you know, let's get
the discussion going and earliertalked about, you know, getting
more involved and potentiallytaking some courses, right to
get to keep yourself educated,right, especially as we're, you
(31:47):
know, definitely in a little bitof a different economic time to
have that little bit ofeducation and knowledge
definitely cannot hurt. So,
David Myers (31:54):
yep. And it's it all looks good on a resume. And
it all looks you know, it'ssomething that people in
interviews want to hear. I thinkeverybody wants interested,
dedicated employees that are,you know, going outside of the
norm to keep themselves currentin the industry. And with things
that are happening, those arethe people that you want on
(32:16):
site, those are the people thatyou want around you.
Jason Cox (32:19):
So Dave, when you start a what's new in the code
course, or code updating course,what's the process that's
required to kind of get yourselfready to, to understand and
explain that information to yourto your students?
David Myers (32:33):
Sure, you, you start by taking five years right
off the top of your life, andyou go from there. Basically,
the first step when a new codebook comes out, is to learn and
understand the changes. And thereason that the changes exist.
There's no sense trying toimplement changes in courses or
changes in exams until you know,a what the change is be how it
(32:58):
works, and see why the changewas made. So that's the very
first step is just, you know,hit the books, run some
calculations, talk to some otherpeople, you know, go on CSAs
website and pull the meetingminutes and sort of see the
discussion behind all thisstuff. And figure out where this
change came from. The next stepis to identify problem areas. So
(33:21):
in general, section 12, for 21has had a lot of changes. So any
question that relates back toSection 12, or that uses section
12, needs to be identified. Sowhen I say questions, I mean
exam or quiz bank questions andthings like that. And then after
that, it's identifying theindividual questions. And that
(33:43):
is probably the longest part ofthe whole process, believe it or
not, because some question thatdoesn't look like it has
anything to do with a changedepends entirely upon it. So you
pretty much after work, everynew question through the new
codebook. You know, then it'sactually editing the question
and verifying that the editswere successful and what they're
(34:03):
supposed to be. And then, youknow, you start the same
process, again, with anysupplemental activities,
worksheets, workbooks, anymodules that might be being
used, that can be edited by byus, the institution. And then of
course, it's making all theedits and implementing them and
running through them with thestudents. And invariably, we'll
(34:26):
run through them with studentsthat are much more intelligent
than we are and I maintain thathappens, every single class that
I have, and they will findthings that that we have missed
and we go through anotherprocess to catch those and to
make sure that there's nothingelse that's left outstanding.
You know, fortunately inAlberta, we have a year from
(34:48):
when the codebook is publisheduntil we put it in force. And
from a college perspective, atleast from a school perspective.
We have another eight monthsafter that before we start with
the new code. So we do have timein between the code books, but
with a three year code cycle,it's pretty much a year and a
half of making these edits, andthen another six months of going
(35:13):
through them with the students,and then you get a year of not
having to worry about it untilthe new code book comes out. So
it's a fairly constant thing forthose of us that are doing code.
Jason Cox (35:25):
That three year cycle, it's it's a real kick in
the pants there, isn't it? Yeah,
David Myers (35:29):
well, and nowadays, you know, the, the amount of
changes in code is always verysignificant. I was involved in
code much less in the in theearly 2000s, because I was in
the field and things, but Idon't remember the changes in
code, being as in depth as theyare from book to book as they
are now. You know, and I couldcertainly be wrong about that.
(35:51):
But I feel like they're, they'recoming out with code books
faster, and they're changingthem more. And so it just ends
up being a lot of work from ourperspective. And it ends up
being a lot of work for peoplein the field, too, because
they're the ones that areinstalling these things in
different situations and findingthe problems that come up with
them. Hey, I did this, this iswhat the rule says, I don't
(36:14):
think they knew about thissituation when they wrote it.
And the rule doesn't work. Thelast three years, we've been
dealing with a specific problemwith farm services, and armored
conduits, because there is noway in code to deal with that.
And so that's been a lot ofconversation, have a lot of
inspector conferences and thingslike that. Obviously, it wasn't
(36:37):
their intent to miss it. Butthey're writing a codebook at a
desk with lots of experiencevery capable, qualified people
to do so. But I maintain thatthere is not one electrician on
the planet that has seen it all.
It's too big of a trade. Andit's you know, so with a three
year code cycle, and with allthese changes, it just leads to
(37:00):
a lot of these things that comeup that that seems to last for
quite some time after the bookis implemented. Nice.
Zack Hartle (37:11):
So my question with the What's New in the code
course, I know, this course isfor Master electricians need to
take out what's new in the codecourse in order to keep their
master certificate in Albertaactive? What is there like a
certification process that yougo through when you actually
build that course that the CSAsays yeah, this is makes this
(37:32):
course a valid, relevant,licensed course? I guess? That's
correct.
David Myers (37:37):
Yep. So the safety codes Council of Alberta
requires that any safety codescount any SEC master
electricians take an updatingcourse to stay current with
code. They know if you you cango to their website to find the
courses that they have approved.
So once the course isconstructed, and built, it's
(37:58):
issued to the safety codesCouncil. They review it for
content and quality. And theysend back any changes that they
would like made, and you sendthe changes back to them. And
then of course, assumingeverything goes well, they will
certify your course. And so ifyou are, if you're interested in
code, you can take any what'snew in the code course. But if
(38:21):
you are a master in Alberta whoneeds to renew, you have to take
one of the ones that areapproved by the safety codes
Council.
Zack Hartle (38:30):
Great in that process? Like I mean, we're,
we're coming on July here. Iassume you've been working on
that that's a couple monthprocess to you know, take the
codebook go through the changes,look at them Memorandum of
revisions, build a course submitit. Right. So that's quite the
process. So pretty impressive.
David Myers (38:49):
It is yeah, it took normally there's a few of us
that work on it. But this time,you know, with the pandemic, and
with everyone working from home,it ended up you know, I did
pretty well, everything I had aI had some good health, some
good insights, and some peoplethat I could go to with a lot of
questions, but the actualbuilding of the course. You
(39:11):
know, I built this one thisyear, and it did, it took just
about three months, by the timeit was approved and ready to go
Zack Hartle (39:18):
plus five years off the top of your life. So there's
David Myers (39:21):
that, you know, but I don't have to pay for that for
later. So
Jason Cox (39:27):
you know, these three years could be tough on you
every three years. The goodthing about the three years that
like you were saying, David,it's starting to almost build a
routine with our industry peoplehave to come in and realize they
have to continually train andupgrade to keep current with the
code. I tend to agree with youin the past, it seemed that you
could go a couple of code cycleswithout there being any dramatic
(39:49):
changes. So So maybe you'relooking at eight years between
training, right. So so maybethis is maybe there's a silver
lining out of this. I wouldagree with that. Definitely
Zack Hartle (40:01):
Well, you know, I think that I mean, I've got a
lot of thoughts going on nowabout some of the new code
rules. And I'm like, oh,visiting that that before. And
but yeah, it's really good. Sothank you so much for sharing
all that with us. And yeah,thanks for joining us today on
the podcast. For our listenersout there, we'd love to hear
from you guys. If you did likethe show. Or if you have any
(40:24):
suggestions on future episodes,please leave us a review. Reach
out to us on Instagram. Commentbelow. If you're on YouTube.
Just let us know your thoughts.
We're hoping to be out everysecond Monday with a new episode
coming for you. And maybe evennext week, we can get into some
of those sections 64 renewableenergy changes. We have Nathan
Ward coming from the Crestviewgroup. He's the Renewable Energy
(40:45):
Manager just chatting with usall about his journey into solar
energy. And yeah, with that,thank you so much for listening.
And you guys have an awesomeweek.
Hello and welcome to the Watt's the Word Podcast.
I'm Zack Hartle your host alongwith your co host here, Jason
Cox. This is a show connectingthe electrical industry through
relevant conversations. Our goalis to hear your story, learn
stories, learn from guests whoare passionate about the
electrical industry. We're veryexcited to be here today. For
(00:21):
our very first episode, we'regoing to be talking with David
Myers about his journey in theelectrical trade, what drives
him, and he's going to sharewith us some of the new changes
to the electrical code. So hereto introduce our guests is Jason
Cox.
Jason Cox (00:38):
Well, thank you for the intro, Zack. I'm excited to
be here. And I'm excited to beon the first podcast and
introduce Dave Meyers, who is asubject matter expert on the
Canadian electrical code. SoDave, nice to see you.
David Myers (00:51):
Hello, folks.
Thanks for the intro. Yeah,let's get started. I'm a born
and raised Calgarian. Lots ofwork experience in electrical
my, my first work experienceother than a paper routes was
was a pizza place that I startedin high school. And that was
actually a, you know, there forthree and a half years. But I
began my electrical career in in2002. I started with a small
(01:14):
family home, or a small familyowned company. We did a pretty
good mix of a lot of differentstuff. It was mostly residential
focused, but it was customhomes. So lots of interesting
sort of problem solving, whatshould we do about this type of
stuff. And we did some smallcommercial didn't really get any
larger commercial experiencewith them. So after about six
(01:38):
years, finishing myapprenticeship with that
company, I moved to a largerfirm, working downtown on some
of the high rises and a large, alarge mall renovation, this is
all in Calgary. In 2009, Istarted as an instructor at a
polytechnic or what was apolytechnic at the time I
suppose in in Calgary calledSAIT. And I've been there ever
(02:00):
since. I've had a lot ofexperience with pretty much all
of the courses that they thatthey offer. And I've been
fortunate to be very involved ina lot of the stuff that happens
with the electrical code.
Zack Hartle (02:16):
Why did you get into electrical? Because I want
to know why people actuallychose electrical or how they got
that job, right? I mean, lots ofpeople fall into it. Lots of
people want to do it.
David Myers (02:25):
Yep. It was sort of a mix of both for me. When I was
right after high school, I had agood high school friend of mine
and the day high school ended,he walked straight into his
apprenticeship. And of course, Icontinued working at a pizza
place for another year. And thenI obviously watched him working
better shifts and making bettermoney and seemed to be enjoying
(02:48):
the work a bit more. So after afew discussions with him, I
decided that electrical would bethe right fit for an
apprenticeship. And anapprenticeship would be the
right fit for me. So back thenit was, you know, I didn't have
any connections in the industry.
That one person I knew thecompany wasn't hiring. So it was
yellow pages, which for youryounger listeners is a phone
(03:11):
directory that we used to usethat was printed on yellow
paper. So it was scrollingthrough the Yellow Pages and
cold calling companies anddropping off resumes until I got
picked up by that that smallercompany that I mentioned at the
beginning.
Zack Hartle (03:29):
Nice. Yeah, no, it's yeah, it's funny how Yeah,
it's usually a friend who getsyou in or something like that.
But no, that's awesome.
Jason Cox (03:39):
We've definitely come a long ways when it comes to
applying for jobs now, goingback. I mean, I we used to look
back on newspapers, right. So inthe newspaper, The Calgary
Herald on Saturdays, the careersection, that's where you would
go to find jobs. And I mean,you'd be hard pressed now just
to find a newspaper. Right. Soyeah, it's crazy. How time
changes and, and yeah, we justmove on, right? Yep.
David Myers (04:03):
Yeah, it's, I think, uh, going through like
the indeed.ca. And all thatstuff that they use now would,
would be a pretty quick way ofgetting jobs. You see them
listed all over the internetnow. So absolutely.
Zack Hartle (04:18):
Okay, so David, you're you're teaching at SAIT?
You've been there for a whilenow, you started out? What What
would you say? You know, a lotof our listeners, maybe you're
just getting into the trade orare thinking about coming into
the trade? We don't really know.
But what do you say are some ofthe opportunities that you know,
the electrical trade or evenjust trades in general can give
someone right, you worked at apizza place and then you got
(04:38):
into the trade? What, what makesthat special? What should bring
other people into the trades?
For sure.
David Myers (04:45):
So I've had you know, I've had a very enjoyable
career. And all of it is relatedto the trades and the trade,
electrical specifically.
Countless opportunity These,I've had the ability to travel,
I've met all kinds of excitingpeople, I've had the ability to
learn all kinds of new skills,from the apprenticeship and
(05:09):
where I learned technicalskills, to going to a different
company a different job whereI've had to, or where I've got
to learn even more skills, andthen coming to seats, where I've
had to learn how to teach andhow to use a computer and all
these things that I had neverdone in the field. Other
opportunities that have,specifically from from
(05:32):
electrical, I've been parts oflots of different code,
discussions with people from allover the province, with
municipal inspectors with thepeople who write the codebook
with leaders of industry. And myexperience with code and my
experience with the trade haveput me in a spot where I'm a
(05:56):
relevant part of thatconversation. And it's a pretty
special feeling to be sittingthere with, with all these
people and, and be part of thediscussion. So yeah, things like
that. Another, you know, a sidebenefit that I would, you know,
suggest for anyone in the trade.
I'm a big advocate for, forpeople that wouldn't normally
(06:18):
consider the trades to try it.
You know, some women, forexample, you can learn so much
from a few years of technicalexperience, and it's skills that
will serve you for your wholelife. Running the house, not
running the house, maintainingthings around the house, fixing
things that break, knowing whichthings are okay for me to fix.
(06:43):
And I'm not going to endanger myfamily or anything like that.
And knowing which ones that Ishould probably leave to the
professionals, that's all skillsthat I've picked up from, you
know, eight, nine years of handson technical trade knowledge,
and that's something that willserve me for the rest of my
(07:03):
life. And it's something that Ithink a lot of young people
could gain a lot of independencefrom, you know, if you can fix
things in your own house, or fixsomething on your car, or
whatever it may be. A there's agood feeling that comes from
that. And B it means it's, it'sa phone call, you don't have to
make to, uh, to a friend or toaccompany or something like
(07:26):
that. So
Zack Hartle (07:30):
absolutely, that's something I always focused on
when working with apprentices islike, knowing when to ask for
help. Like, it's really cool totry things, but you got to know
when, where's the line? Right?
Where do you when do you need toget a journeyman or someone more
experienced or call accompanylike you say, if it's at your
own house? So that's reallygood.
David Myers (07:50):
Yeah, you know, the, the correlation between
safety, public safety andquality of work with electrical
specifically is always somethingI've been very passionate about.
You know, when, when we getsomething wrong, we're putting
the public at risk. And so therequirements to do things right
(08:14):
is so obviously apparent andelectrical. And I've learned a
lot from that type of thing. Onthe flip side, a lot of our work
is concealed. And, you know, ina lot of cases, it's it's not
like carpentry where everythinghas to go together absolutely
perfectly. So there's a lot ofopportunity to make it so that
(08:36):
it doesn't. But then when you dothat you bring in some unseen,
terrifying public safety riskfrom electric shock or fire or
whatever it may be.
Jason Cox (08:48):
Yeah. Well, getting back to what you were saying
earlier, Dave, starting anapprenticeship, what an
experience just to start like asa young, young adult, right,
just being, I mean, thrown intothat situation, learning with,
with colleagues, with with yourmentor. Those are skills that
(09:10):
are beneficial for the rest ofyour life. I'm not trying to get
people out of the electricalindustry. But I mean, what a
what a Segway, you can startoff, learn some, some self self
knowledge, learn some handskills, get an overview. It's an
incredible opportunity to reallyit's a great development tool
(09:30):
for young adult.
David Myers (09:31):
It is and the people that you are surrounded
with when you start anapprenticeship. You know, if
you're 1819 years old, you walkonto a job site starting an
apprenticeship. You are therewith professionals who want to
be there. And that's notsomething that you're gonna get
in a lot of other jobs outthere. You know, if I don't want
(09:54):
to single out any industries oranything like that, but a lot of
jobs that an 1819 year old wouldtake on whether it's laborer or
whatever it might be, you wouldbe surrounded, you wouldn't be
surrounded by, by focused drivenprofessional people and in an
apprenticeship and in myexperience in the electrical
apprenticeship, that issomething that, that you can get
(10:17):
a lot from just by itself, theway to interact professionally,
the way to interact withcustomers, the way you interact
with other trades on site.
Watching people who are careerdriven at a young age and
spending a lot of time with themat a young age, will serve you
for the rest of your life, I'vealways believed that.
Jason Cox (10:40):
I would 100% Agree.
Zack Hartle (10:43):
So you're Dave, 12 years now at sait. What, what
keeps you there, what holds youat sait? What drives you to keep
going to be an instructor everyday?
David Myers (10:54):
What what drives me to keep being productive, I
suppose would be the word that Iuse, because, you know, I work
with a lot of people who I wouldcall innovative. And I'm more of
the other end where I'm justsort of nose to the grindstone
and just sort of keep doingthings and, and sort of keep at
(11:15):
it. I suppose the biggest thingthat keeps me productive, or the
biggest driver for me is, isfinding new or different ways to
explain concepts. And I findthat that leads to the creation
of content and all sorts offruitful discussions with
colleagues and students. I alsofind that code drives me I'm I'm
constantly amazed at how muchtechnical required technical
(11:38):
knowledge is required to oneunderstand the codebook. And to
to adapt and implement it. Youknow, I've worked with the code
in one form or another for 19years. And I'm still finding
things that I misunderstood, I'mstill finding things that I
didn't know about in the firstplace. And a document like that,
(11:58):
you know, where CSA sort ofconsiders it their flagship
documents, that's CanadianStandards Association, the
publishers of the codebook. Thatsort of stuff I find, keeps me
on my toes and keeps me adaptingand changing and trying new
things and doing more stuff andsort of keeps me going and
(12:21):
getting me up in the morning.
Zack Hartle (12:23):
And luckily, you get a new book every three years
now, so that
David Myers (12:26):
another one to learn every few years. You bet,
right.
Jason Cox (12:30):
So Dave, one of the questions I have is, What would
you recommend to electriciansthat are working in the field,
for them to better understand orinterpret some of those code
rules,
David Myers (12:44):
if you're working in the field, but it's very hard
to sit down with the codebookfor two, three hours of of your
own time, because everyone'sbusy. And it's even harder to
spend two, three hours of yourcompany time or the time on the
job site, to really understandthe codebook, I find most people
in the field become very wellversed with the parts of the
(13:06):
code that they deal with. So ifyou're doing commercial, you
know, you'll you'll know quite alot about transformers and how
to do all the grounding andbonding and things like that.
But then you come to school, andyou have to do some of the
residential codes. And it can bea bit of a struggle. Probably
the biggest thing I could adviseis, is taking some courses,
(13:27):
there's there's all kinds ofnight courses available, there's
weekend courses that can betaken at a whole bunch of
different places. And as a sidebenefit with with the pandemic,
and what's going on with that,that has opened up courses all
over the country that will sortof keep you going through code.
The other thing is, is to getinvolved, you know, you can
(13:48):
become a member of the ECA. Youknow, or the PAC, the provincial
Advisory Committee and there'salways code discussions that
happen in those meetings.
There's also a whole bunch ofother conferences that happen
throughout the year, where youcan hear live code discussions
with professionals that dealwith it. Day in and day out.
(14:10):
That will probably the biggestthing I could advise because
I've been there I've tried tojust straight up read the
codebook and understand it andwithout actually working with
it. It's it's a very difficultthing to do. Well, thanks. Yeah,
it's
Jason Cox (14:30):
it's crazy. I mean, that's a really big book. And I
mean, I've often told peopleover the years, when they talked
about our trade, and they say,Oh, your trades easy or make
their comments. I go yeah, youjust have to learn this entire
book. Right. And that seems tokind of hold them in their place
for a moment there. Yeah,there's a lot of information in
there and you're 100% Correct.
Teams, our trade gets reallysegmented and people become
(14:53):
specialists in certain areas, sothey become well versed with
certain areas of the code. YouYep,
Zack Hartle (15:01):
yeah, definitely remember many of the almost
arguments on site about how todo something, you know, whether
it came to you got to do a voltdrop calculation, which you
haven't done since fourth yearschool. And you and co workers
are all sitting around the lunchtable arguing about how to do
the calculation properly. Andit's, it's funny, and then the
one person, of course, pulls up.
Well, I guess there was nosmartphones back then. But
someone's nowadays would justpull out their smartphone and do
(15:23):
the calculation. But I guesswithout understanding the
reasoning behind thatcalculation, too, and how that
calculation is made, it's kindof pointless.
David Myers (15:32):
Well, and even from the academic perspective, that
doesn't fit the field and theacademic perspective, you know,
this is a bit of a deep dive forthose of us that aren't super
involved with code. But theacademic perspective, volt drop
is 3%. In the field, it'susually two. And it's usually
two because you're doing voltagedrop for long feeders and
services and things like that.
And used to there so that youcan have three on your, on your
(15:55):
branch circuits and things likethat. So that's just another
example of where the academicside doesn't quite fit in. With
the field side.
Jason Cox (16:08):
So Dave, one of the things you were you're
mentioning there, just thestruggles with the electrical
and in the interpretation, isthere, is there something that
you've run across over theyears, that seems to be the
biggest struggle for students?
I'm just gonna say, right offthe bat, that volt drop
calculation might be, might beone of the tough ones. But is
there anything that comes tomind?
David Myers (16:27):
volt drop for sure.
In fourth period, that's always,you know, we cover that here in
fourth period, technicaltraining. And it's just it's
such a different thing. Andit's, it's a very involved
calculation, and it, it doesn'tmake that much sense. One of the
other things that I find aconsistent struggle with is the
application of continuousloading. You know, and I think
(16:50):
it comes about because we coverderating factors first. And when
you do derating factors, theprocedure is to divide first and
then multiply, and then we getto continuous loads, and you
just divide by 80%. And youdon't multiply it back out. And,
and the understanding for bothseems to evaporate, right at
that moment in time. Those seemto be the two code things that
(17:14):
we seem to have to go back overthe most, you know, motor supply
conductors, which it's such aninfinite decimal thing that
doesn't even matter. It's almostnever a different wire size. And
we struggle with it so much.
(17:35):
Those are probably the three keythings that pop out for me, as
you know, those are the thingsthat I'm up a little late the
night before thinking aboutbefore I have to do them for
sure.
Jason Cox (17:46):
Yeah, I still have flashbacks. So that of the role
dropped calculations back in theday and making the effort to
write like very good notes in mycode book this remember, this is
how this works. And what themost basic example right, so. So
yeah. Oh, I mean, if that's ifthat's what you're running
across, I guess it's good thatI'm finding those same
(18:07):
challenges. Yep.
Zack Hartle (18:11):
So I guess you're spending all your time right
now. With the 2021 codebook. Weknow it came out, I think,
February 1 2021, and comes intoor January 1 2021. It comes into
effect, January or February, oneyear later. So 2022. So you're
working on that now big changesin that book? Well, not not
(18:31):
huge. I, from my understanding,I haven't looked into it a ton.
But one of the things thateveryone notices, there's no
index now, what are yourthoughts?
David Myers (18:39):
So in regards to the index, that's probably going
to depend on which codebook youhave. So here's the thing is, I
have a printed copy of the 21codebook. There is no index, and
there is a little note sayingwhy they've deleted it. If you
go on CSAs website and log inand get the free online version,
(19:04):
the index has been added back inand it's been updated and
accurate. So I do expect thatfuture print versions will keep
the index and I certainly hopeso I am for it. I think not
having it erodes the quality ofthe documents. And I think
especially when the reasonsbehind it are it's too complex
(19:25):
and too complicated and cost toomuch to produce an index. You
know, when you're still sellinga what are they now over $200
book. I think the index shouldbe there and it should never
have gone away in the firstplace. I understand that. You
know, from our perspective, wedo a lot of it with the soft
copy. But that's just notrealistic for people in the
(19:47):
field. And it's not realisticfor people writing exams, at
least not for some time. Sohaving the ability to search
isn't a real you know, Ctrl F orwhatever it is to search that's
not a Real thing for most peoplein the industry. So I'm very
happy to see it come back. Ihope that's actually what
they're intending to do. And I,every time I run one of our code
(20:12):
updating what's new in the codecourses, I'm always asking to
see if the students haveversions with an index in them.
As of yet, they don't care as ofthe last one. They don't. So I
do expect to see a few versionsof the print, just like the last
book, everyone will havedifferent page numbers. And I'm
hoping to see the index put backin there as well. So that's my
(20:35):
thoughts on the index. I supposeeveryone probably could feel
different about it. But I thinkwe're in the worst case scenario
now where from an instructionalperspective, at least half of
our students are going to havean index and the other half
aren't. So
Jason Cox (20:54):
Oh, all right. So Dave, when I looked at this new
codebook, briefly, I've been inthe trade now for I think it's
25 years. And so these codebooks have progressively gotten
bigger and bigger and bigger,the bindings have changed. And
they've been pretty similar forthe last couple of years. But I
(21:14):
looked at this new codebook. AndI was initially excited because
it was last page numbers, I didrealize it was missing, missing
the index. But then I kind oflooked at it a little more
carefully. And it looks likeeither I'm getting older, or
some of that text is gettingsmaller in some of the tables.
David Myers (21:33):
Yeah, the way they printed the tables is a little
different than the 21 book. Ihaven't noticed it quite as much
just because I've been using thesoft copy for almost everything.
But yeah, there's there'sespecially you know, the new
table six, if you've seen thatone? Sure. I designed a few
questions based on that table.
And Holy smokes, I got threedifferent answers to the same
(21:56):
question all three times. Andthat's because I was doing it,
you know, or I was finding thewrong spot in the table. Because
the new table six, if youhaven't seen it, is a solid
block of numbers. And it's easyto just, you know, point to the
wrong spot and end up with thewrong answer. So definitely some
changes in how the tables look.
(22:20):
I think the font remain the samefrom the 2018 book, if I
remember, right, I think theychanged fonts from 15 to 18.
Jason Cox (22:29):
Yeah, the real numbers look very similar, like
I without really examining it,but I did notice some of the
organization of the tables andthe font size is clearly
different than some of thosetables and the way that they're
laid out. Now it was a littledifferent to So reluctantly
wearing glasses now andfollowing like you said, with a
(22:50):
ruler to make sure that I'mfollowing the same column. Yeah,
David Myers (22:55):
well, for how much we use table six, even in the
field, right, table six, ifyou're, if you're not familiar,
is the table we use to sizeconduits to fit wires, and very
commonly used in the fields verycommonly used at school, you
know, some highlights across thetable to make sure you're on the
right line and right columnwould be would be well served
(23:15):
there for sure. All right,
Zack Hartle (23:17):
so we've got table six has changed. I think what
what else matters, you know,what else? What are the big
changes that we are lookinginto? Right? I mean, you are, as
you mentioned, teach the What'sNew in the code course, but what
are the big ones that are goingto affect? I guess, everyday
electricians, you know,
David Myers (23:33):
you bet. So, if this will be a very short, you
know, very just a hey, heads up,these are the changes, you know,
and if you do want all of thechanges and how they work and
calculation examples, you know,and your listeners, I would
recommend taking a code updatingcourse, there's quite a few on
(23:55):
offer. If you're a masterelectrician in Alberta, you're
gonna have to take one. But evenif you're not even if you're a
journeyman or a very interestedin apprentice journey person or
very interested apprentice,there's lots of these courses on
offer. sate offers one. It'scalled the What's New in the
code, if you search for it onstate's website, it's about six
(24:17):
hours, there's a little quiz atthe end, we cover every
meaningful change in the wholecodebook. For here, I've just
sort of gone through and said,Okay, look, these are the ones
that affect the most people. Andso I'm not gonna go through the
rule numbers or any of thatstuff. I'm just gonna say, hey,
heads up, this is coming.
February 2022 is when it'sadopted in Alberta and enforce,
(24:37):
so any permits pulled after thatdate. This is the stuff that you
guys should be aware of. Sofirst things first, we got flood
requirements throughout sectiontwo, section six section 26.
They've defined a flood hazardzone. Very, very similar to the
requirements that have been inCalgary since 2013. So now
(24:57):
they're in our electoral code.
So just a heads up that that'swhere you can find those
requirements now, and it's stillup to the municipality as to
whether or not somethingrequires flood mitigation, but
it is listed in code. Anotherthing that came up is table 39,
which was a state strange tablefor sizing residential services
(25:23):
and feeders they've deleted thatthey've gotten rid of it. In
regards to residentialpanelboards, there was a big
archaic rule in Section eightfor a whole pile of stuff,
they've deleted it andsimplified that, they simply say
you need a certain number ofempty spaces leftover at the end
of the job. Easy, the number ofoutlets per circuit has changed.
(25:50):
So in the past, it was 12.
Nonstop, and that was that nowit's, you can have more
depending on the type ofovercurrent device you have. So
you can get more than 12 outletson a on a 20 amp circuit, for
example. There's a few otherallowances in there. There's
something that we should all beaware of. And we should all be
asking people about. If you readin Section 12. It looks like it
(26:11):
requires ft six flame test sixLumix in the in cold air
returns. So last I checked Lumexwas ft four I think so just
something that needs to be askedthere in the in the memorandum
of revision in the codediscussions that go into these
(26:32):
changes. They did say that therewas no change in intent, but in
the wording of the rule, itcertainly looks to have have
changed. So you guys will needto be having some discussions
about the type of Lumex that yourun through cold air returns in
houses. So table 19, they'vecompletely changed that as well.
They deleted it, rewrote it, theold table 19 had 39 or 37 notes
(26:52):
at the bottom. There are nownone. So it's much better and
much simpler to use. Forresidential, there's one really
big one, when you're runningLumix down the side of a stud
for example, to three gangswitch or something like that,
you now have to keep that Lumexback 32 millimeters from the
(27:13):
front edge from the drywall theedge of a stud. So if you know a
two by four is about 84millimeters wide. Take 32 from
each side, you're left withabout one inch in the middle of
it, you can staple 24millimeters or so in the middle
of that you can staple so a fourgang switch a three gang switch
anything where you got a lot ofwires going down the same stud
(27:34):
space, I do believe there arebrackets available, but you'll
have to buy those brackets now.
So for you residential folks outthere, that's going to be a big
one for us for sure. With thatthey've put in a relaxation for
Lumex and conduits if you're outthere doing a lot of hot tubs or
something like that, and youwant to run the number six and a
(27:55):
conduit where it leaves thehouse in the 21 codebook it's
very clearly worded that you canwhereas in the 18 codebook it
sort of pretty well says thatyou can't
conduit sizing has not changedin terms of what size conduit
you'll get for the most part butthere's no longer a quick lookup
(28:15):
for conduit sizing we used to beable to use table six just
straight up, plunk your fingerdown you can get eight wires and
a three quarter inch and justoff you go there is now a three
table requirements and thecalculation required every time
you size conduit. So that willbe a bit of a frustration. Of
course when I say three tables,one of them as table eight it's
(28:37):
always 40% Pretty much but youknow that's not true. If you
have two wires in a conduitthough it's it's different.
Right? So a little bit moreinvolved for for conduit sizing.
barns, livestock buildings, theclassification has been very
stringently identified inSection 22. So if you're doing a
(28:59):
lot of farm work or rural work,just be very aware of what's
happened with that. There wasapparently some fires and a lot
of lost livestock. And sothey've really stringently
worded how they've done thatnow. Secondary suites, there has
been some pedal board and branchcircuit relaxations for
secondary suites. So, again,pretty similar to what we've
(29:22):
been doing in the City ofCalgary, but now it's in our
codebook for you largerresidential and commercial
folks, every 15 or 20 ampreceptacle outside requires GFCI
so all your car stalls, all thatstuff that didn't need them in
the past. You're going to needGFCI protection on that stuff.
(29:44):
So that's a big one for a lot ofcompanies out there. The
lighting requirements in Section30 For dwelling units you need
to light in the bedroom mutilatein the living room, all that
stuff. It's all gone deleted.
That doesn't mean therequirements are gone. They were
duplicated requirements from thebuilding ENCODE. So just a heads
up in regards to that, you stillneed all those lights in the
same places, you just can't findwhere in the codebook, it tells
(30:07):
you to put them. And then sortof an interesting one. I don't
know how many people this willaffect, but I want to kind of
get the word out and have adiscussion with as many people
as I can about it. They've takenall the battery requirements,
storage batteries from section26 and moved them to Section 64.
Section 64 Being renewableenergy systems. A you an
(30:30):
uninterruptible power supply, orUPS is not a renewable energy
system. So there's norequirements go to section 64
For that, yet, those still use alot of batteries. And so as of
right now, there's reallynowhere in the codebook, for how
to install batteries forsomething that's not a renewable
(30:53):
energy system. So just somethingthat I want to get the word out
there and get people thinkingabout and start asking some
questions so that we can getsome answers on that and, and
things like that. So those are,those are the ones that I sort
of picked out that that willaffect the most people.
Obviously, there are hundredsand hundreds of changes from the
18th to the 21 book. Andobviously, there's more
(31:17):
technical wording that needs tobe said about all those things
that I mentioned, I just wantedto sort of throw them out.
Zack Hartle (31:26):
Absolutely, it's, it's interesting. I mean, I
remember working out in thefield, and new code books always
came out. And you just you onlyheard about things as they
mattered. So I think that yourpoint about you know, let's get
the discussion going and earliertalked about, you know, getting
more involved and potentiallytaking some courses, right to
get to keep yourself educated,right, especially as we're, you
(31:47):
know, definitely in a little bitof a different economic time to
have that little bit ofeducation and knowledge
definitely cannot hurt. So,
David Myers (31:54):
yep. And it's it all looks good on a resume. And
it all looks you know, it'ssomething that people in
interviews want to hear. I thinkeverybody wants interested,
dedicated employees that are,you know, going outside of the
norm to keep themselves currentin the industry. And with things
that are happening, those arethe people that you want on
(32:16):
site, those are the people thatyou want around you.
Jason Cox (32:19):
So Dave, when you start a what's new in the code
course, or code updating course,what's the process that's
required to kind of get yourselfready to, to understand and
explain that information to yourto your students?
David Myers (32:33):
Sure, you, you start by taking five years right
off the top of your life, andyou go from there. Basically,
the first step when a new codebook comes out, is to learn and
understand the changes. And thereason that the changes exist.
There's no sense trying toimplement changes in courses or
changes in exams until you know,a what the change is be how it
(32:58):
works, and see why the changewas made. So that's the very
first step is just, you know,hit the books, run some
calculations, talk to some otherpeople, you know, go on CSAs
website and pull the meetingminutes and sort of see the
discussion behind all thisstuff. And figure out where this
change came from. The next stepis to identify problem areas. So
(33:21):
in general, section 12, for 21has had a lot of changes. So any
question that relates back toSection 12, or that uses section
12, needs to be identified. Sowhen I say questions, I mean
exam or quiz bank questions andthings like that. And then after
that, it's identifying theindividual questions. And that
(33:43):
is probably the longest part ofthe whole process, believe it or
not, because some question thatdoesn't look like it has
anything to do with a changedepends entirely upon it. So you
pretty much after work, everynew question through the new
codebook. You know, then it'sactually editing the question
and verifying that the editswere successful and what they're
(34:03):
supposed to be. And then, youknow, you start the same
process, again, with anysupplemental activities,
worksheets, workbooks, anymodules that might be being
used, that can be edited by byus, the institution. And then of
course, it's making all theedits and implementing them and
running through them with thestudents. And invariably, we'll
(34:26):
run through them with studentsthat are much more intelligent
than we are and I maintain thathappens, every single class that
I have, and they will findthings that that we have missed
and we go through anotherprocess to catch those and to
make sure that there's nothingelse that's left outstanding.
You know, fortunately inAlberta, we have a year from
(34:48):
when the codebook is publisheduntil we put it in force. And
from a college perspective, atleast from a school perspective.
We have another eight monthsafter that before we start with
the new code. So we do have timein between the code books, but
with a three year code cycle,it's pretty much a year and a
half of making these edits, andthen another six months of going
(35:13):
through them with the students,and then you get a year of not
having to worry about it untilthe new code book comes out. So
it's a fairly constant thing forthose of us that are doing code.
Jason Cox (35:25):
That three year cycle, it's it's a real kick in
the pants there, isn't it? Yeah,
David Myers (35:29):
well, and nowadays, you know, the, the amount of
changes in code is always verysignificant. I was involved in
code much less in the in theearly 2000s, because I was in
the field and things, but Idon't remember the changes in
code, being as in depth as theyare from book to book as they
are now. You know, and I couldcertainly be wrong about that.
(35:51):
But I feel like they're, they'recoming out with code books
faster, and they're changingthem more. And so it just ends
up being a lot of work from ourperspective. And it ends up
being a lot of work for peoplein the field, too, because
they're the ones that areinstalling these things in
different situations and findingthe problems that come up with
them. Hey, I did this, this iswhat the rule says, I don't
(36:14):
think they knew about thissituation when they wrote it.
And the rule doesn't work. Thelast three years, we've been
dealing with a specific problemwith farm services, and armored
conduits, because there is noway in code to deal with that.
And so that's been a lot ofconversation, have a lot of
inspector conferences and thingslike that. Obviously, it wasn't
(36:37):
their intent to miss it. Butthey're writing a codebook at a
desk with lots of experiencevery capable, qualified people
to do so. But I maintain thatthere is not one electrician on
the planet that has seen it all.
It's too big of a trade. Andit's you know, so with a three
year code cycle, and with allthese changes, it just leads to
(37:00):
a lot of these things that comeup that that seems to last for
quite some time after the bookis implemented. Nice.
Zack Hartle (37:11):
So my question with the What's New in the code
course, I know, this course isfor Master electricians need to
take out what's new in the codecourse in order to keep their
master certificate in Albertaactive? What is there like a
certification process that yougo through when you actually
build that course that the CSAsays yeah, this is makes this
(37:32):
course a valid, relevant,licensed course? I guess? That's
correct.
David Myers (37:37):
Yep. So the safety codes Council of Alberta
requires that any safety codescount any SEC master
electricians take an updatingcourse to stay current with
code. They know if you you cango to their website to find the
courses that they have approved.
So once the course isconstructed, and built, it's
(37:58):
issued to the safety codesCouncil. They review it for
content and quality. And theysend back any changes that they
would like made, and you sendthe changes back to them. And
then of course, assumingeverything goes well, they will
certify your course. And so ifyou are, if you're interested in
code, you can take any what'snew in the code course. But if
(38:21):
you are a master in Alberta whoneeds to renew, you have to take
one of the ones that areapproved by the safety codes
Council.
Zack Hartle (38:30):
Great in that process? Like I mean, we're,
we're coming on July here. Iassume you've been working on
that that's a couple monthprocess to you know, take the
codebook go through the changes,look at them Memorandum of
revisions, build a course submitit. Right. So that's quite the
process. So pretty impressive.
David Myers (38:49):
It is yeah, it took normally there's a few of us
that work on it. But this time,you know, with the pandemic, and
with everyone working from home,it ended up you know, I did
pretty well, everything I had aI had some good health, some
good insights, and some peoplethat I could go to with a lot of
questions, but the actualbuilding of the course. You
(39:11):
know, I built this one thisyear, and it did, it took just
about three months, by the timeit was approved and ready to go
Zack Hartle (39:18):
plus five years off the top of your life. So there's
David Myers (39:21):
that, you know, but I don't have to pay for that for
later. So
Jason Cox (39:27):
you know, these three years could be tough on you
every three years. The goodthing about the three years that
like you were saying, David,it's starting to almost build a
routine with our industry peoplehave to come in and realize they
have to continually train andupgrade to keep current with the
code. I tend to agree with youin the past, it seemed that you
could go a couple of code cycleswithout there being any dramatic
(39:49):
changes. So So maybe you'relooking at eight years between
training, right. So so maybethis is maybe there's a silver
lining out of this. I wouldagree with that. Definitely
Zack Hartle (40:01):
Well, you know, I think that I mean, I've got a
lot of thoughts going on nowabout some of the new code
rules. And I'm like, oh,visiting that that before. And
but yeah, it's really good. Sothank you so much for sharing
all that with us. And yeah,thanks for joining us today on
the podcast. For our listenersout there, we'd love to hear
from you guys. If you did likethe show. Or if you have any
(40:24):
suggestions on future episodes,please leave us a review. Reach
out to us on Instagram. Commentbelow. If you're on YouTube.
Just let us know your thoughts.
We're hoping to be out everysecond Monday with a new episode
coming for you. And maybe evennext week, we can get into some
of those sections 64 renewableenergy changes. We have Nathan
Ward coming from the Crestviewgroup. He's the Renewable Energy
(40:45):
Manager just chatting with usall about his journey into solar
energy. And yeah, with that,thank you so much for listening.
And you guys have an awesomeweek.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.