November 1, 2021 • 40 mins
Neil Moffat of Canem Systems Ltd. shares with us how they navigated the COVID-19 pandemic safely and effectively. From service vans with one person to sites with over 1000, we explore how COVID has affected and changed the daily operations of an electrical contracting company. This was all possible through planning of logistics and effective communication with the field staff.
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Episode Transcript
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Zack Hartle (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of Watt's the
Word and electrical industrypodcast. I am your host, Zack
Hartle, and I am joined asalways by Jason Cox. We're very
excited for our episode today.
Jason, who do we have on theshow today?
Jason Cox (00:14):
Our guest today, Zack is Neil Moffat. Neil is the
Director of Health, Safety andEnvironment at Cannon systems
limited. He's the vice presidentof the Electrical Contractors
Association, executive board.
He's the presiding officer ofthe Alberta provincial
apprenticeship committee. He'sthe past chair of the Alberta
(00:35):
Construction Safety Association.
He's got a gold seal. And he's aNational Construction Safety
Officer.
Zack Hartle (00:44):
That is quite the list of credentials. And I
couldn't think of anyone morequalified to be here today to
talk about COVID. So right,we're right in the middle of a
fourth wave, we just want to getinto a little bit about how a
company such as CanAm systems orany electrical contractor
operates through COVID, and howCOVID is going to affect things
and change their operations. SoI guess with that, let's jump
(01:06):
into our episode.
Jason Cox (01:07):
Today, we're joined by Neil Moffat, Neil, welcome to
Watt's the Word.
Neil Moffatt (01:12):
Hey, thanks for having me, Jason.
Jason Cox (01:14):
Neil, you've been involved in the electrical
industry for over 35 years now,your area of expertise is
safety. How has workplace safetychanged over the last decade?
Neil Moffatt (01:27):
Well, it's it's certainly moving forward, you
know, starting to look atdifferent ways of recognizing
and identifying hazards.
Certainly, you know, anindividual or a company safety
record, certainly has a muchmore significant part to play in
(01:49):
their ability to, to winprojects than it was 15/20 years
ago. You know, there'scertificate of recognition
programs that are out there,across all of the different
provinces, Alberta is certainlynot an exception. And so it's
(02:11):
about ongoing, continuousimprovement. And, you know,
looking for ways to looking forbetter ways to educate people on
how to recognize and, andmitigate the hazards that they
(02:32):
do come across on a daily basis.
Jason Cox (02:38):
So part of my next question would be, have the
attitudes changed over the last10 years? And I think you've
already answered or that so itsounds like your customers are
taking safety into account whenthey're looking for contractors?
Neil Moffatt (02:53):
Most definitely, you know, I mean, like
everything else, you know, ithas to have an impetus. And
certainly, clients are much moredemanding now than they were
before. I think you see more ofa difference now between public
company versus a private companyin terms of, of what some of
(03:17):
their expectations might be thatthey're looking for. So for
sure, those attitudes havechanged on the front end. And
that's all a part that leadsinto whether or not you're
successful in getting a job.
Right. I think the other theother piece of the puzzle, very
important piece of the puzzle isthe individual attitude of, of
workers on the job sites, andcertainly, in the last 10 to 15
(03:42):
years, there's, there's been abig change there as well. You
know, I think that it's prettycommonplace now, to see things
like mandatory glove programs,mandatory eye protection
programs, that type of thing.
(04:04):
You didn't see those 2025 yearsago, you see them now. You know,
a lot of the and I think thatthe attitude of the the
attitudes and the expectationsof the younger generations that
are making their way in theindustry has changed as well.
(04:26):
You know, I think that societyhas done a pretty good job of,
of bringing safety forward as aas a number one concern for
people in you know, in theirdaily lives. So I think younger
people now have a higherexpectation of the ability to be
(04:47):
able to work in a safeenvironment and then then they
did 2025 years ago.
Jason Cox (04:53):
Excellent. Yeah, that really answers but that was the
second part of my question washave the attitude change with
the workers To in veryinteresting the comment of
working for a public versusprivate contractor that,
obviously everyone isaccountable. But when you're a
publicly traded company thatthat makes sense as well.
Neil Moffatt (05:15):
Yeah, well, I'm you know, I mean, a publicly
traded company is basically hegets the direction from from a
board. And certainly, you know,these boards and the people that
are on these boards, you know, Imean, they're, their number one
motive, their number one driveris to, you know, ensure that the
business has in place the thingsthat will protect the best
(05:39):
interests of that business andposition it for growth, and
continued success.
Zack Hartle (05:46):
Hi, Neil. So one of the main reasons we wanted to
have you on the show today,obviously, you're a wealth of
knowledge, having so muchexpertise in safety within the
trade, but we're in the middleof a fourth wave here, you know,
hopefully, it's on the down,turn, but COVID has obviously
been one of the biggestchallenges you've seen in your
role. So maybe, can you justtalk a little bit about how you
(06:09):
operate during a pandemic, howit really changed your day to
day thinking and safety? Andwe'll kind of start with that,
and I'm sure we'll branch offinto many more aspects of it.
Neil Moffatt (06:20):
Yeah, you know, like, in terms of, you know, did
attitudes change in regards today to day safety, or
expectations, or, you know, justgeneral attitudes, I don't think
that COVID really has had mucheffect on that, you know,
(06:40):
overall attitude, mostdefinitely COVID has created the
opportunity to, and the need tohave certain things taken care
of, or evaluated in order tocontinue to operate, you know,
(07:03):
the construction industry, as awhole, you know, across the
country, and certainly in allthe provinces, has done an
amazing job of keeping, keepingthe lights on, you know, keeping
the keeping the keeping thepower on keeping the work going.
Construction was fortunateenough to be deemed an essential
(07:27):
service. So that certainlyprovided the opportunity for
construction workers tocontinue, continue to work. But
most definitely, the part thathas changed is what you have to
do on a job site, to be able tocontinue to work in a COVID
world. So it hasn't been somuch, you know, polishing up,
(07:52):
you know, old, old ideas, or oldattitudes or that type of thing.
It's been about understandingthat COVID means that we need to
do things differently, we haveto assess, we have to have a
closer look at if and when ourpeople are working in close
proximity to one another. And ifthey are, then how can they
(08:15):
protect themselves. And if theycan't protect themselves, then
the opposite the opportunity isto revisit how you actually
getting some of those tasksdone. So I think that, you know,
in terms of in terms of how doyou do things differently COVID
has provided the opportunity forpeople to look at how they might
(08:40):
go about getting everyday tasksdone. Certainly the other piece
of the puzzle, you know, hasbeen around, you know, how do
people interact on that jobsite. So, you know, it's, you
know, the old days or, you know,a typical construction site
would be, you know, one siteoffice and, and one site lunch
(09:05):
room with a consistent, aconsistent lunchtime. What COVID
has done is it's forced peopleto look at things like staggered
break times, staggeredlunchtimes, in fact, maybe even
doubling or tripling the numberof break rooms that you might
(09:28):
have available on the job site,just so that you can, you know,
allow people the opportunity totake their breaks and take their
lunch in an environment whereyou know, they can take their
coats off and you know, taketheir masks off and relax for 15
or 30 minutes and, and have somelunch but do so in an
(09:52):
environment that is protected.
So, you know, we've got examplesof lunch rooms that have
barriers. was around individualtables, barriers between
individual, you know, lunchstations or that type of thing.
So certainly those changes havebeen the big ones. You know, I
think that I think that alongwith that, you know, you still,
(10:17):
I would say for sure that whenit first started, everything
needed to slow down, because youhad to stop doing things the way
you were doing it before. So,for the first little bit, there
was most definitely, I wouldsay, heightened level of
awareness in slowing down, andbeing aware of what the right
(10:43):
way to do things was, and itmight take you a little bit
longer to get stuff done. Oncepeople got got kind of
comfortable with that, then, youknow, things started to kind of
get back to get back to anormal, or a COVID. Normal,
there's no such thing as normalanymore. But there is a COVID
(11:04):
normal. So
Zack Hartle (11:07):
yeah, one thing you said there that I really I don't
know, resonates with me is thatit's an opportunity, right COVID
is an opportunity. At no pointis it isn't a challenge or a
barrier, it's just anopportunity to, like you say
even assess some of your oldersafety policies and bring them
in line, right, really assessthe day to day operations of a
site. So I don't I'm using it asan opportunity, I think is a
great way to look at it.
Neil Moffatt (11:29):
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that, you know,people that have been successful
with how they've been able tofunction through COVID is
probably due in large partbecause of maybe that little bit
of a shift in attitude, or thattype of thing, you know, to try
and focus on, you know, spendingyour time thinking about and
(11:50):
talking about, how can we dothis safely? How can we improve
on this, as opposed to, youknow, spending the time
complaining about the fact thatwe have to do something
different? Because there's thisvirus out there that, you know,
we really don't know that muchabout?
Jason Cox (12:11):
So, Neil, in your position, right now, you oversee
work done in multiple provinces?
How is it that you are gettingyour message out to your field
staff, throughout multipleprovinces?
Neil Moffatt (12:26):
Well, we have, I mean, we have safety
coordinators, in each one of ourmajor branches or major areas.
So in terms of a conduit, thatthat's been the conduit that
we've used, but you know, if yougo back to, you know, how did we
(12:46):
decide what the message wasgoing to be, or what the COVID
procedures were going to be? Atthe beginning, that was a really
big struggle, because we dooperate in five provinces. And
right off the get go, there weredifferences in the provinces in
terms of terms of isolation andsymptoms, and, you know, the
(13:09):
whole the, the whole reporting,of COVID, and, you know,
websites and that type of thing.
So, what we did early on in theget go, was we went to, we use
the Public Health Agency ofCanada guidelines, for the most
part, to be able to identify,say, you know, items, like the
(13:31):
symptoms that we were going tobe looking for, you know, on our
COVID questionnaires, and thattype of thing. We looked at, you
know, the differences in theprovinces, in terms of, you
know, days of isolation thatmight be required, or anything
else like that. And for the mostpart, we looked for
(13:54):
opportunities to be able to, tobe able to apply the most
stringent, or the highest levelof what some of those standards
were. So, you know, there was alittle bit of an education
process. Let's just say, forexample, maybe if somebody in BC
(14:15):
was looking at, you know, thenumber of days that you would
have to be in, in isolation,versus the number of days in
Alberta? Well, I mean, from theget go, the numbers were
different. So, you know, when wedid settle on the higher number,
you know, you got some people insome provinces that, you know,
(14:36):
might have said, Well, okay,well, why do we have to do this?
Well, at the end of the day, thereason that the driving force
between behind everything thatwe have done with COVID has been
about making sure that we'redoing everything that is
reasonably possible to protectthe health of our people. So if
that means that we're applying ahigher standard Have people in
(14:58):
Manitoba than what the Manitobagovernment would say? Well, so
be it. But at the end of theday, we wanted to make sure that
we were applying a standard thatwould provide the greatest level
of, of support and or protectionto our people across the
country. And then And then, andthen we communicated that, you
(15:21):
know, we put together a safe jobprocedure that at last count, I
think we're on the NinthRevision of that safe job
procedure. It's been an ongoing,living, breathing document. And
that is how we have been ableto, to spread the message on
(15:44):
what is required.
Jason Cox (15:50):
I think it's all about information. And it's
frustrating, because it ischanging constantly. And I mean,
like you said, you're dealingwith five provinces and five
different best practices. Soyeah, so yeah, communication
would be key to your staff, forsure.
Neil Moffatt (16:06):
Yeah. I think that, you know, if you talk
about communication, I thinkthat probably the biggest
problem, the biggest concernthat COVID has has caused is it
is basically pitted peopleagainst one another, because
(16:26):
everybody watches the news, theyread the paper, they're reading
the tweets, they're, you know,they're doing all this stuff.
They're becoming educated. Andthen there's, you know, the,
then there's the conversations,and it's all about what
individual's interpretations ofthe regulations or the
restrictions are. So it's been,it's been difficult on all of
(16:51):
us, I think, because it's a verypersonal thing. I mean, even
right now, vaccination is a manof the day, it's a personal
choice, you know, I mean, youeither believe in it, or you
don't believe in it, and you'reeither going to do it or you're
not going to do it. So I thinkthat's the biggest problem. Very
early on, we developed a processwhereby we had individuals
(17:16):
identified in each region as adesignated tracker. And their
job basically was to gatherinformation from people that
weren't coming to work, becausethey were exhibiting symptoms,
whether or not they neededtesting, or that type of thing.
And then, you know, and theninterpreting and communicating
(17:38):
with those folks on, you know,what their, what their length of
isolation might be, or what thenext step forward might be, or
what the next requirement mightbe. So early on, we set our, we
set up a process whereby we had,you know, all of these
discussions around COVID,isolations, and positive,
(18:01):
negative and that kind of thing,all of that stuff was being
funneled through one individualin a region. And what that
allowed us to do was to be ableto do as good a job as we
possibly could, in ensuring thatthe message that everybody heard
on March, the 16th 2020, wasstill the same message that they
(18:24):
might be hearing. A year later,so a level of consistency. But
by having that that designatedperson in each region who was
responsible to gather thisinformation and speak with the
workers, it it put us in a in aposition of making sure that the
(18:46):
information that we were puttingout there was consistent so that
people heard the same thing fromCanada.
Zack Hartle (18:53):
Yeah, that's a great point. And there's no
question that having thatconsistent voice and person to
go to can be so helpful foreveryone, right, especially
during the stresses of thepandemic, with so much
misinformation out there. Wereconflicting information. Now, as
we're kind of changing, shiftingmodes from a restriction locked
down into more vaccinations andyou know, less restrictions. How
(19:17):
are you guys pivoting with allthat information now?
Neil Moffatt (19:21):
Right now, the conversation is all about
understanding what client ownerand, you know, maybe some
general contractors, what theirrequirements are in terms of
vaccination, and testing,whether they're going to allow
(19:42):
it what type you know, is it anaccommodation or what have you
so that right now theconversation has changed? You
know, certainly, certainly at alevel in the companies because
you've got clients that are, youknow, sending a letter Ever
since saying, Okay, well, thisis our mandatory vaccination
(20:03):
requirement as of such and sucha date. So, you know, we want
you to sign off on this. Butthen at the end of the day, as
an individual contractor, now,it's put us into the position of
needing to develop processes, sothat we can make people aware of
what the requirements are toaccess a certain site. And in
(20:26):
some cases, we might even haveto maybe not dispatch somebody
to a site, because we know orwe're told that they can't meet
those vaccination requirements.
So certainly in the last month,that has been the focus of the
conversation throughout theindustry. And it's, you know,
it's, it's it, it's, it's justkind of, it's reframing the
(20:53):
conversation around, okay, whatdo we have to do to actually be
able to go in there and do somework. And then once we get
there, at the end of the day,we're still surviving on the job
sites within the same, you know,close, we're close proximity
rules, you know, distancing asmuch as possible, assessing the
(21:14):
health of people on a dailybasis, you still have, you still
have the daily healthquestionnaires for people to get
on sites and that type of thing.
But the conversation hasdefinitely changed now where,
where the requirement is for youas a company owner, or as a
(21:35):
company officer to, to sign offand, you know, basically sign a
declaration saying that yourpeople will meet that client's
vaccination requirements priorto dispatching into the site.
Jason Cox (21:49):
Neil, it seems like the behavior of work tasks and
how you would do a job now hasto be considered when we're
dealing with COVID. I wouldimagine the COVID PPE wearing a
mask and keeping your handsgloves, sanitizers not a
(22:09):
problem. How has your responsebeen from your staff? Regarding
wearing that PPE and followingthe standards for hygiene? You
know, I
Neil Moffatt (22:20):
mean, I think that overall, it's been pretty good.
I think that early on, peopledefinitely struggled, because it
was something new that needed tohappen, especially with the
wearing of a mask, I mean, youknow, you the only other
usually, the only time you weara mask is when you're in a you
know, you're in an environmentthat has some concerns about
(22:43):
oxygen availability, or, youknow, quality of the air or that
type of thing. But, so certainlypeople had some struggles with
different types of masks. And,and what that, you know, did to
them in terms of a being able tobreathe, but actually, more
(23:03):
importantly, we ended up findingthat a lot of people were having
issues with safety glassesfogging up. So we actually, you
know, had to, you know, took alittle bit of time for us to
find, you know, the typeglasses, or the types of glasses
or different types of spraysthat would limit or eliminate
(23:30):
the fogging of the eyewear whileyou were wearing the mask. So
that that was definitely a bitof a changer, and it definitely,
you know, cause some cause someconcern for people, I think that
you did, you know, you Whereasyou might have expected to see
somebody wearing their glasses,20, you know, you know, said,
(23:53):
seven out of the eight hours,they were on the job site? Well,
with COVID, I think that anytimethere was an opportunity to take
them off or slip the mask downis something that, that people
would do, but certainly if youwere ever in close proximity
with people, you know, you yougot to keep those things on and
then it's a matter of, you know,okay, is this the right way? I
(24:15):
mean, look at all thediscussions about what the right
types of masks were, I mean,they, you know, there was do
play three, play this, that andeverything else. So, you know, I
mean, at the end of the day,with this particular virus
share, you know, as long as youcan control that, those those
airborne particles, you're,you're doing something, right,
(24:37):
so,
Jason Cox (24:39):
and like you were saying our industry is very
fortunate that it was able tocontinue to work during COVID.
Right, there was otherindustries that were shut down.
So I think eventually that getsgets to everyone's kind of
perspective. We kind of see justhow fortunate we are that we can
continue to work and, and thenobvious See compliance with the
(25:01):
safety equipment, whether it'sthe mask or hygiene, I mean, it
just makes sense. As far as,hey, you're still trying to make
a paycheck?
Neil Moffatt (25:09):
Yeah. And you know what I mean, I think that, you
know, in terms of the benefit,or, you know, you know, should
people have been working, Imean, a lot of people that a lot
of people that were affected byCOVID, in a negative manner,
when it came to theiremployment, some people lost
their jobs completely. I mean,in construction, at least, we
were able to, to, to maintainthat and keep that going. And I
(25:37):
mean, the construction industryas a whole, certainly not just
us, but as a whole, you know,across all the different trades
and all the differentdisciplines and stuff like that.
And, you know, I think that youhave to, we have to tip our hats
off to, to the folks that, youknow, we're, you know,
(25:57):
supervisors and leaders andworkers in those companies,
because at the end of the day,throughout this 20 months of
COVID, that has been, you know,I, I think that you could make a
case that the safest place forsomebody was at work, because it
at work, in order for you tokeep working, you had to have
(26:21):
specific processes or protocolsin place, outside of work, you
know, it's pretty easy to letyour guard down, you know, and
do some stuff that are maybeoutside of the restrictions, or
maybe not, or, you know, maybejust let your guard down a
little bit. So, you know, youknow, I think that at the end of
the day, you know, ourexperience throughout COVID, I
(26:46):
think that we might haveidentified one, one particular
instance, where the virus itselfwas maybe contracted or, you
know, transmitted from the site,everything else was coming from
off site, into the job site. Sothat I mean, that's, that's not
(27:07):
exactly 100%, either, becauseyou could have that argument for
forever trying to determinewhere, where something might
have actually transmitted
Zack Hartle (27:16):
from, yeah, that the tracing of the source of the
virus is something that I mean,we'll never get 100% For sure.
When you when that does happen,when there is confirmed cases on
sites, I mean, I'm sure itshifted a little bit throughout
the pandemic, but how wereoutbreaks or transmissions on a
(27:36):
site or brought in from a site?
How are those dealt with?
Neil Moffatt (27:40):
Well, again, I mentioned earlier that we had
set up every region with a, whatwe call the designated tracker.
And that person was basicallythe record keeper and the
guidance provider, the resourceperson, for people on job sites,
to let us know what was going onin regards to COVID. And people
(28:05):
having symptoms or that type ofthing. So what we found, we were
basically doing our own contacttracing. So if you have an
individual who woke up on Mondaymorning, and not feeling well
phones into the supervisor andsays, you know, what, I'm not
feeling well, today, I got acough, I got a runny nose, I got
(28:27):
a bit of a fever, you know, thatperson would immediately then be
in contact with the designatedtracker, and the designated
tracker would you know, capturetheir information, and, you
know, log it. And then, youknow, kind of go from there, you
know, provide direction onwhether or not a test would
(28:48):
would be appropriate or not,certainly, there's far less
testing going on now than therehas been over the past year.
Just because of the the natureof you know, vaccinations and a
certain percentage of peoplebeing vaccinated. There's not as
much testing going on now. Butif you look at, you know, so
(29:09):
what happened when somebodytested positive so. So if
somebody tests positive, then wewould have already been in
contact with them. In mostcases, for people that were
asymptomatic and then testingpositive, certainly, the
positive test would be the firsttime that we would be aware of
(29:29):
what was going on. But becausewe were doing our own contact
tracing and stuff like that,then we would then be trying to
understand whether or not peoplehad close contacts or not, who
they were, what areas of a jobsite they worked in on certain
days. And then we would lettheir co workers know and say,
(29:52):
okay, just to let you know, a coworker of yours has tested
positive, it appears that youmight have been And close
contact with him over the lastcouple of days or whatever,
monitor yourself, you know, youeither a, you know, you've got
to isolate right away, becausethat's the way that it kind of
(30:12):
used to be. And now thatisolation is kind of gone away
for for close contact, but I'mprobably doing a really crappy
job of explaining how we did ourown contact tracing. But, but in
large part because of what wewere doing, we were doing and
gathering information at a ratethat was far quicker than any of
(30:34):
the other provincial contacttracing authorities could do.
And on numerous occasions, fromevery, from all of the different
provincial health authoritiesthat we were dealing with, when
we got into situations where weneed to speak with where we
needed to speak with them, theywere very, very impressed and
(30:57):
very, very satisfied, andpleased to hear that the contact
tracing that we were doing, ofour own, was in itself, very,
very complete and made their joban awful lot easier as well,
Zack Hartle (31:15):
that phone call to the foreman in the morning,
feeling a little bit sick, it'sa much different phone call
today than it was 10 years ago,because 10 years ago would have
been I come to work, but
Neil Moffatt (31:27):
and you know, Jack, hey, you know, I mean,
you're absolutely bang on there.
Because that is one of thethings that, you know, early on,
needed to start changing in andit's that attitude about people
calling in sick. And, you know,and whether or not you're
(31:47):
talking about, you know, thehourly guy working on the job
site, or whether you're talkingabout the salaried person
working in the office, there'sno doubt that, you know, we've,
we had a pretty proud historyof, you know, showing up to work
every day, or, you know, andmaybe a little bit of a cough or
a little bit of this orwhatever. But on the flip side
(32:07):
of that, there's an awful lot ofsupervisors and bosses out there
that, you know, kind of, youknow, had the attitude that
really, you're sick again, youknow, or, or that type of thing.
Well, that is had to change, youknow, and we had to, we had to
let supervisors know that themessage that we were
(32:29):
communicating to our people,whether they were our earlier
staff, it didn't really matterwas, you know, the game has
changed. If you're not feelingwell, stay home, call in, let us
know, if appropriate, then we'llput you in contact with the
designated tracker. And thenwe're going to follow this
(32:50):
through so that you get theright type of help, or the right
number of days or whatever, thatyou can, you know, feel better.
So it's about removing that thatstigma associated with, you
know, Oh, sick again.
Zack Hartle (33:08):
Okay, yeah, power through, get her done, no matter
what it takes days are clearlycoming to an end.
Jason Cox (33:17):
Neal, is there any process or procedure that you
guys have picked up duringCOVID, that you guys would
probably continue to use movingforward, hopefully, after the
COVID crisis is over,
Neil Moffatt (33:29):
I think that we are definitely going to start
looking at how we get jobs done,or how we assign tasks
differently. Because we've seenthat some tasks that we might
have gotten used to having morethan one person do them, maybe
(33:50):
only one person needs to dothem. So I think that some of
those types of attitudes orthose types of work, changes in,
in in work processes areprobably going to be the ones
that that will change. You know,I'm I'm really hopeful that at
some point in time, we will beable to stop producing proof of
(34:14):
vaccination or a vaccinepassport. I mean, right now,
there seems to be about 10 or 12of those things out there. So I,
you know, I would like to thinkthat at some point, we'll, we'll
get past that. But I do thinkthat the opportunity to have a
look at how we're getting thework done. Is is going to change
(34:40):
and maybe more so in the youknow, in the administration or
on the company, you know,salaried staff type of thing.
COVID has presented anopportunity for people to take a
really hard look at the workprocesses that they do have, and
whether or not they'll workprocesses are those work
(35:01):
functions have to be performedby somebody in a physical space
in an office, as opposed toworking from home. And again, I
throw it out there as theopportunity, because that's the
way to kind of have a look atit. But I do think that you're
going to see people make somechanges in how they do that and
(35:27):
identify different types ofroles that don't necessarily
need to be performed by somebodyoccupying a 12 by 12. Office in
an industrial park somewhere. SoI, you know, I think that you're
going to see a little bit ofthe, I think you'll see some
companies that will do, willhave more of their work
(35:47):
functions conducted remotely.
Jason Cox (35:52):
Neil, is there a significant difference in how
you guys are treating COVID,looking at the perspective of
your workers going in on amassive construction site, and
then also your workers, maybe ina service van going into an
establishment?
Neil Moffatt (36:10):
I think that the only difference would really be
on the scale of what is inplace, whether it was a large
construction site or a smallservice site, customers building
or whatever, or whatever, therewould be either paper
questionnaire that would have tobe completed, or some kind of an
(36:31):
electronic version, that wouldbe more applicable in a in a
large case scenario.
Jason Cox (36:40):
And so is that slowing down the process for
workers to get into big jobsites? Or is it is it is it a
pretty quick process?
Neil Moffatt (36:49):
For the most part, it's a very quick process, it's
certainly quicker now than itwas when it was first brought
in. You know, I mentionedearlier that, you know, we had
to look at things likestaggering, lunchtime,
staggering break times, we alsohad to look at things like
staggering break times,especially on the larger sites,
(37:09):
so that you didn't haveeverybody showing up at the same
time. You know, if you, youknow, as a larger site, like the
cancer center, we have, youknow, a couple 100 people there,
well, you can, you know, maybeonly have, you only have 80 of
them showing up, but at onetime, and then another ad and
then another ad and then anotherad. So, those were changes that
(37:32):
needed to be made.
Jason Cox (37:34):
In on those big job sites, when you're coming in the
gates in the morning, was thegeneral contractor, the one that
was kind of looking at each ofthe contractors, or did you guys
kind of take care of your trade,plumbers took care of their
trade,
Neil Moffatt (37:48):
on the larger job sites where somebody has been
designated as the primecontractor than they were the
ones that were doing thatbecause that they're in control
as the prime contractor they'rein control are responsible for
the site from the client.
Excellent.
Zack Hartle (38:05):
You know, Neil, thanks so much for coming and
chatting with us here aboutCOVID. And I mean, I'm sure it's
been a hectic and busy 20 ishmonths for you now. So really
appreciate you taking the timejust to come share with us and
the few people who arelistening, hear your experiences
and how it's affected your work.
So we appreciate it.
Neil Moffatt (38:26):
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you.
Zack Hartle (38:31):
Thanks so much to everyone for listening in on our
conversation with Neil Moffat.
That was a pretty timely episodeto get in some experience in
dealing with COVID out there inthe industry. And I definitely
learned a lot. And Jason, I'mwondering what are some of your
takeaways from the show?
Jason Cox (38:46):
One of the takeaways I got from that episode, Zach
was that Neil's company wasworking with the five provinces
with their health boards for thecontact tracing so so it was
interesting to see that theirinitiative to keep their staff
working actually benefited thecontact tracers and each of the
(39:08):
provinces. Health Department.
Zack Hartle (39:11):
Yeah, love to hear that to how that little bit of
initiative kept that that clearmessage for all their employees,
right. Boys spread out over fiveprovinces getting that clear
message right now. It's justwithout a doubt one of the most
important things right to avoidthat misinformation and
confusion. So it's glad to hearabout that. Also glad to say
(39:31):
that Neil is likely going tocome back on the show to talk a
little bit more about theprovincial apprenticeship
committee or actually what itwill soon be called once the
dust settles on Bill 67. Somenew legislation passed here in
Alberta which has huge,overarching changes to the
electrical trade andapprenticeship training as a
whole so I'm really excited tohave him back to chat about
(39:53):
that.
Jason Cox (39:54):
Yeah, Zack this bill 67 It's gonna be a game changer.
That's what everyone keepstelling us. So when the dust
settles, Neil is exactly thekind of person we're looking for
in our episode. He's passionateabout the industry. He's been
volunteering with our industryfor years. And I think it'd be
very interesting to see when thebill is adopted just what
(40:17):
changes those are going to haveon apprenticeship, and
especially the electrical trade.
Zack Hartle (40:25):
Absolutely. And you know what, I think that's
everything we have for thisweek. So I just want to thank
everybody who came to listentoday. We are so glad to have
you. Please share the show witha friend. Let them know if you
like it. Of course you know, youcan find it anywhere you listen
to podcasts, Apple, Spotify,Google. Leave us a review, let
us know what you think. And asalways, keep yourself safe out
(40:48):
there. And if you can someoneelse to
Welcome back to another episode of Watt's the
Word and electrical industrypodcast. I am your host, Zack
Hartle, and I am joined asalways by Jason Cox. We're very
excited for our episode today.
Jason, who do we have on theshow today?
Jason Cox (00:14):
Our guest today, Zack is Neil Moffat. Neil is the
Director of Health, Safety andEnvironment at Cannon systems
limited. He's the vice presidentof the Electrical Contractors
Association, executive board.
He's the presiding officer ofthe Alberta provincial
apprenticeship committee. He'sthe past chair of the Alberta
(00:35):
Construction Safety Association.
He's got a gold seal. And he's aNational Construction Safety
Officer.
Zack Hartle (00:44):
That is quite the list of credentials. And I
couldn't think of anyone morequalified to be here today to
talk about COVID. So right,we're right in the middle of a
fourth wave, we just want to getinto a little bit about how a
company such as CanAm systems orany electrical contractor
operates through COVID, and howCOVID is going to affect things
and change their operations. SoI guess with that, let's jump
(01:06):
into our episode.
Jason Cox (01:07):
Today, we're joined by Neil Moffat, Neil, welcome to
Watt's the Word.
Neil Moffatt (01:12):
Hey, thanks for having me, Jason.
Jason Cox (01:14):
Neil, you've been involved in the electrical
industry for over 35 years now,your area of expertise is
safety. How has workplace safetychanged over the last decade?
Neil Moffatt (01:27):
Well, it's it's certainly moving forward, you
know, starting to look atdifferent ways of recognizing
and identifying hazards.
Certainly, you know, anindividual or a company safety
record, certainly has a muchmore significant part to play in
(01:49):
their ability to, to winprojects than it was 15/20 years
ago. You know, there'scertificate of recognition
programs that are out there,across all of the different
provinces, Alberta is certainlynot an exception. And so it's
(02:11):
about ongoing, continuousimprovement. And, you know,
looking for ways to looking forbetter ways to educate people on
how to recognize and, andmitigate the hazards that they
(02:32):
do come across on a daily basis.
Jason Cox (02:38):
So part of my next question would be, have the
attitudes changed over the last10 years? And I think you've
already answered or that so itsounds like your customers are
taking safety into account whenthey're looking for contractors?
Neil Moffatt (02:53):
Most definitely, you know, I mean, like
everything else, you know, ithas to have an impetus. And
certainly, clients are much moredemanding now than they were
before. I think you see more ofa difference now between public
company versus a private companyin terms of, of what some of
(03:17):
their expectations might be thatthey're looking for. So for
sure, those attitudes havechanged on the front end. And
that's all a part that leadsinto whether or not you're
successful in getting a job.
Right. I think the other theother piece of the puzzle, very
important piece of the puzzle isthe individual attitude of, of
workers on the job sites, andcertainly, in the last 10 to 15
(03:42):
years, there's, there's been abig change there as well. You
know, I think that it's prettycommonplace now, to see things
like mandatory glove programs,mandatory eye protection
programs, that type of thing.
(04:04):
You didn't see those 2025 yearsago, you see them now. You know,
a lot of the and I think thatthe attitude of the the
attitudes and the expectationsof the younger generations that
are making their way in theindustry has changed as well.
(04:26):
You know, I think that societyhas done a pretty good job of,
of bringing safety forward as aas a number one concern for
people in you know, in theirdaily lives. So I think younger
people now have a higherexpectation of the ability to be
(04:47):
able to work in a safeenvironment and then then they
did 2025 years ago.
Jason Cox (04:53):
Excellent. Yeah, that really answers but that was the
second part of my question washave the attitude change with
the workers To in veryinteresting the comment of
working for a public versusprivate contractor that,
obviously everyone isaccountable. But when you're a
publicly traded company thatthat makes sense as well.
Neil Moffatt (05:15):
Yeah, well, I'm you know, I mean, a publicly
traded company is basically hegets the direction from from a
board. And certainly, you know,these boards and the people that
are on these boards, you know, Imean, they're, their number one
motive, their number one driveris to, you know, ensure that the
business has in place the thingsthat will protect the best
(05:39):
interests of that business andposition it for growth, and
continued success.
Zack Hartle (05:46):
Hi, Neil. So one of the main reasons we wanted to
have you on the show today,obviously, you're a wealth of
knowledge, having so muchexpertise in safety within the
trade, but we're in the middleof a fourth wave here, you know,
hopefully, it's on the down,turn, but COVID has obviously
been one of the biggestchallenges you've seen in your
role. So maybe, can you justtalk a little bit about how you
(06:09):
operate during a pandemic, howit really changed your day to
day thinking and safety? Andwe'll kind of start with that,
and I'm sure we'll branch offinto many more aspects of it.
Neil Moffatt (06:20):
Yeah, you know, like, in terms of, you know, did
attitudes change in regards today to day safety, or
expectations, or, you know, justgeneral attitudes, I don't think
that COVID really has had mucheffect on that, you know,
(06:40):
overall attitude, mostdefinitely COVID has created the
opportunity to, and the need tohave certain things taken care
of, or evaluated in order tocontinue to operate, you know,
(07:03):
the construction industry, as awhole, you know, across the
country, and certainly in allthe provinces, has done an
amazing job of keeping, keepingthe lights on, you know, keeping
the keeping the keeping thepower on keeping the work going.
Construction was fortunateenough to be deemed an essential
(07:27):
service. So that certainlyprovided the opportunity for
construction workers tocontinue, continue to work. But
most definitely, the part thathas changed is what you have to
do on a job site, to be able tocontinue to work in a COVID
world. So it hasn't been somuch, you know, polishing up,
(07:52):
you know, old, old ideas, or oldattitudes or that type of thing.
It's been about understandingthat COVID means that we need to
do things differently, we haveto assess, we have to have a
closer look at if and when ourpeople are working in close
proximity to one another. And ifthey are, then how can they
(08:15):
protect themselves. And if theycan't protect themselves, then
the opposite the opportunity isto revisit how you actually
getting some of those tasksdone. So I think that, you know,
in terms of in terms of how doyou do things differently COVID
has provided the opportunity forpeople to look at how they might
(08:40):
go about getting everyday tasksdone. Certainly the other piece
of the puzzle, you know, hasbeen around, you know, how do
people interact on that jobsite. So, you know, it's, you
know, the old days or, you know,a typical construction site
would be, you know, one siteoffice and, and one site lunch
(09:05):
room with a consistent, aconsistent lunchtime. What COVID
has done is it's forced peopleto look at things like staggered
break times, staggeredlunchtimes, in fact, maybe even
doubling or tripling the numberof break rooms that you might
(09:28):
have available on the job site,just so that you can, you know,
allow people the opportunity totake their breaks and take their
lunch in an environment whereyou know, they can take their
coats off and you know, taketheir masks off and relax for 15
or 30 minutes and, and have somelunch but do so in an
(09:52):
environment that is protected.
So, you know, we've got examplesof lunch rooms that have
barriers. was around individualtables, barriers between
individual, you know, lunchstations or that type of thing.
So certainly those changes havebeen the big ones. You know, I
think that I think that alongwith that, you know, you still,
(10:17):
I would say for sure that whenit first started, everything
needed to slow down, because youhad to stop doing things the way
you were doing it before. So,for the first little bit, there
was most definitely, I wouldsay, heightened level of
awareness in slowing down, andbeing aware of what the right
(10:43):
way to do things was, and itmight take you a little bit
longer to get stuff done. Oncepeople got got kind of
comfortable with that, then, youknow, things started to kind of
get back to get back to anormal, or a COVID. Normal,
there's no such thing as normalanymore. But there is a COVID
(11:04):
normal. So
Zack Hartle (11:07):
yeah, one thing you said there that I really I don't
know, resonates with me is thatit's an opportunity, right COVID
is an opportunity. At no pointis it isn't a challenge or a
barrier, it's just anopportunity to, like you say
even assess some of your oldersafety policies and bring them
in line, right, really assessthe day to day operations of a
site. So I don't I'm using it asan opportunity, I think is a
great way to look at it.
Neil Moffatt (11:29):
Yeah, for sure.
And I think that, you know,people that have been successful
with how they've been able tofunction through COVID is
probably due in large partbecause of maybe that little bit
of a shift in attitude, or thattype of thing, you know, to try
and focus on, you know, spendingyour time thinking about and
(11:50):
talking about, how can we dothis safely? How can we improve
on this, as opposed to, youknow, spending the time
complaining about the fact thatwe have to do something
different? Because there's thisvirus out there that, you know,
we really don't know that muchabout?
Jason Cox (12:11):
So, Neil, in your position, right now, you oversee
work done in multiple provinces?
How is it that you are gettingyour message out to your field
staff, throughout multipleprovinces?
Neil Moffatt (12:26):
Well, we have, I mean, we have safety
coordinators, in each one of ourmajor branches or major areas.
So in terms of a conduit, thatthat's been the conduit that
we've used, but you know, if yougo back to, you know, how did we
(12:46):
decide what the message wasgoing to be, or what the COVID
procedures were going to be? Atthe beginning, that was a really
big struggle, because we dooperate in five provinces. And
right off the get go, there weredifferences in the provinces in
terms of terms of isolation andsymptoms, and, you know, the
(13:09):
whole the, the whole reporting,of COVID, and, you know,
websites and that type of thing.
So, what we did early on in theget go, was we went to, we use
the Public Health Agency ofCanada guidelines, for the most
part, to be able to identify,say, you know, items, like the
(13:31):
symptoms that we were going tobe looking for, you know, on our
COVID questionnaires, and thattype of thing. We looked at, you
know, the differences in theprovinces, in terms of, you
know, days of isolation thatmight be required, or anything
else like that. And for the mostpart, we looked for
(13:54):
opportunities to be able to, tobe able to apply the most
stringent, or the highest levelof what some of those standards
were. So, you know, there was alittle bit of an education
process. Let's just say, forexample, maybe if somebody in BC
(14:15):
was looking at, you know, thenumber of days that you would
have to be in, in isolation,versus the number of days in
Alberta? Well, I mean, from theget go, the numbers were
different. So, you know, when wedid settle on the higher number,
you know, you got some people insome provinces that, you know,
(14:36):
might have said, Well, okay,well, why do we have to do this?
Well, at the end of the day, thereason that the driving force
between behind everything thatwe have done with COVID has been
about making sure that we'redoing everything that is
reasonably possible to protectthe health of our people. So if
that means that we're applying ahigher standard Have people in
(14:58):
Manitoba than what the Manitobagovernment would say? Well, so
be it. But at the end of theday, we wanted to make sure that
we were applying a standard thatwould provide the greatest level
of, of support and or protectionto our people across the
country. And then And then, andthen we communicated that, you
(15:21):
know, we put together a safe jobprocedure that at last count, I
think we're on the NinthRevision of that safe job
procedure. It's been an ongoing,living, breathing document. And
that is how we have been ableto, to spread the message on
(15:44):
what is required.
Jason Cox (15:50):
I think it's all about information. And it's
frustrating, because it ischanging constantly. And I mean,
like you said, you're dealingwith five provinces and five
different best practices. Soyeah, so yeah, communication
would be key to your staff, forsure.
Neil Moffatt (16:06):
Yeah. I think that, you know, if you talk
about communication, I thinkthat probably the biggest
problem, the biggest concernthat COVID has has caused is it
is basically pitted peopleagainst one another, because
(16:26):
everybody watches the news, theyread the paper, they're reading
the tweets, they're, you know,they're doing all this stuff.
They're becoming educated. Andthen there's, you know, the,
then there's the conversations,and it's all about what
individual's interpretations ofthe regulations or the
restrictions are. So it's been,it's been difficult on all of
(16:51):
us, I think, because it's a verypersonal thing. I mean, even
right now, vaccination is a manof the day, it's a personal
choice, you know, I mean, youeither believe in it, or you
don't believe in it, and you'reeither going to do it or you're
not going to do it. So I thinkthat's the biggest problem. Very
early on, we developed a processwhereby we had individuals
(17:16):
identified in each region as adesignated tracker. And their
job basically was to gatherinformation from people that
weren't coming to work, becausethey were exhibiting symptoms,
whether or not they neededtesting, or that type of thing.
And then, you know, and theninterpreting and communicating
(17:38):
with those folks on, you know,what their, what their length of
isolation might be, or what thenext step forward might be, or
what the next requirement mightbe. So early on, we set our, we
set up a process whereby we had,you know, all of these
discussions around COVID,isolations, and positive,
(18:01):
negative and that kind of thing,all of that stuff was being
funneled through one individualin a region. And what that
allowed us to do was to be ableto do as good a job as we
possibly could, in ensuring thatthe message that everybody heard
on March, the 16th 2020, wasstill the same message that they
(18:24):
might be hearing. A year later,so a level of consistency. But
by having that that designatedperson in each region who was
responsible to gather thisinformation and speak with the
workers, it it put us in a in aposition of making sure that the
(18:46):
information that we were puttingout there was consistent so that
people heard the same thing fromCanada.
Zack Hartle (18:53):
Yeah, that's a great point. And there's no
question that having thatconsistent voice and person to
go to can be so helpful foreveryone, right, especially
during the stresses of thepandemic, with so much
misinformation out there. Wereconflicting information. Now, as
we're kind of changing, shiftingmodes from a restriction locked
down into more vaccinations andyou know, less restrictions. How
(19:17):
are you guys pivoting with allthat information now?
Neil Moffatt (19:21):
Right now, the conversation is all about
understanding what client ownerand, you know, maybe some
general contractors, what theirrequirements are in terms of
vaccination, and testing,whether they're going to allow
(19:42):
it what type you know, is it anaccommodation or what have you
so that right now theconversation has changed? You
know, certainly, certainly at alevel in the companies because
you've got clients that are, youknow, sending a letter Ever
since saying, Okay, well, thisis our mandatory vaccination
(20:03):
requirement as of such and sucha date. So, you know, we want
you to sign off on this. Butthen at the end of the day, as
an individual contractor, now,it's put us into the position of
needing to develop processes, sothat we can make people aware of
what the requirements are toaccess a certain site. And in
(20:26):
some cases, we might even haveto maybe not dispatch somebody
to a site, because we know orwe're told that they can't meet
those vaccination requirements.
So certainly in the last month,that has been the focus of the
conversation throughout theindustry. And it's, you know,
it's, it's it, it's, it's justkind of, it's reframing the
(20:53):
conversation around, okay, whatdo we have to do to actually be
able to go in there and do somework. And then once we get
there, at the end of the day,we're still surviving on the job
sites within the same, you know,close, we're close proximity
rules, you know, distancing asmuch as possible, assessing the
(21:14):
health of people on a dailybasis, you still have, you still
have the daily healthquestionnaires for people to get
on sites and that type of thing.
But the conversation hasdefinitely changed now where,
where the requirement is for youas a company owner, or as a
(21:35):
company officer to, to sign offand, you know, basically sign a
declaration saying that yourpeople will meet that client's
vaccination requirements priorto dispatching into the site.
Jason Cox (21:49):
Neil, it seems like the behavior of work tasks and
how you would do a job now hasto be considered when we're
dealing with COVID. I wouldimagine the COVID PPE wearing a
mask and keeping your handsgloves, sanitizers not a
(22:09):
problem. How has your responsebeen from your staff? Regarding
wearing that PPE and followingthe standards for hygiene? You
know, I
Neil Moffatt (22:20):
mean, I think that overall, it's been pretty good.
I think that early on, peopledefinitely struggled, because it
was something new that needed tohappen, especially with the
wearing of a mask, I mean, youknow, you the only other
usually, the only time you weara mask is when you're in a you
know, you're in an environmentthat has some concerns about
(22:43):
oxygen availability, or, youknow, quality of the air or that
type of thing. But, so certainlypeople had some struggles with
different types of masks. And,and what that, you know, did to
them in terms of a being able tobreathe, but actually, more
(23:03):
importantly, we ended up findingthat a lot of people were having
issues with safety glassesfogging up. So we actually, you
know, had to, you know, took alittle bit of time for us to
find, you know, the typeglasses, or the types of glasses
or different types of spraysthat would limit or eliminate
(23:30):
the fogging of the eyewear whileyou were wearing the mask. So
that that was definitely a bitof a changer, and it definitely,
you know, cause some cause someconcern for people, I think that
you did, you know, you Whereasyou might have expected to see
somebody wearing their glasses,20, you know, you know, said,
(23:53):
seven out of the eight hours,they were on the job site? Well,
with COVID, I think that anytimethere was an opportunity to take
them off or slip the mask downis something that, that people
would do, but certainly if youwere ever in close proximity
with people, you know, you yougot to keep those things on and
then it's a matter of, you know,okay, is this the right way? I
(24:15):
mean, look at all thediscussions about what the right
types of masks were, I mean,they, you know, there was do
play three, play this, that andeverything else. So, you know, I
mean, at the end of the day,with this particular virus
share, you know, as long as youcan control that, those those
airborne particles, you're,you're doing something, right,
(24:37):
so,
Jason Cox (24:39):
and like you were saying our industry is very
fortunate that it was able tocontinue to work during COVID.
Right, there was otherindustries that were shut down.
So I think eventually that getsgets to everyone's kind of
perspective. We kind of see justhow fortunate we are that we can
continue to work and, and thenobvious See compliance with the
(25:01):
safety equipment, whether it'sthe mask or hygiene, I mean, it
just makes sense. As far as,hey, you're still trying to make
a paycheck?
Neil Moffatt (25:09):
Yeah. And you know what I mean, I think that, you
know, in terms of the benefit,or, you know, you know, should
people have been working, Imean, a lot of people that a lot
of people that were affected byCOVID, in a negative manner,
when it came to theiremployment, some people lost
their jobs completely. I mean,in construction, at least, we
were able to, to, to maintainthat and keep that going. And I
(25:37):
mean, the construction industryas a whole, certainly not just
us, but as a whole, you know,across all the different trades
and all the differentdisciplines and stuff like that.
And, you know, I think that youhave to, we have to tip our hats
off to, to the folks that, youknow, we're, you know,
(25:57):
supervisors and leaders andworkers in those companies,
because at the end of the day,throughout this 20 months of
COVID, that has been, you know,I, I think that you could make a
case that the safest place forsomebody was at work, because it
at work, in order for you tokeep working, you had to have
(26:21):
specific processes or protocolsin place, outside of work, you
know, it's pretty easy to letyour guard down, you know, and
do some stuff that are maybeoutside of the restrictions, or
maybe not, or, you know, maybejust let your guard down a
little bit. So, you know, youknow, I think that at the end of
the day, you know, ourexperience throughout COVID, I
(26:46):
think that we might haveidentified one, one particular
instance, where the virus itselfwas maybe contracted or, you
know, transmitted from the site,everything else was coming from
off site, into the job site. Sothat I mean, that's, that's not
(27:07):
exactly 100%, either, becauseyou could have that argument for
forever trying to determinewhere, where something might
have actually transmitted
Zack Hartle (27:16):
from, yeah, that the tracing of the source of the
virus is something that I mean,we'll never get 100% For sure.
When you when that does happen,when there is confirmed cases on
sites, I mean, I'm sure itshifted a little bit throughout
the pandemic, but how wereoutbreaks or transmissions on a
(27:36):
site or brought in from a site?
How are those dealt with?
Neil Moffatt (27:40):
Well, again, I mentioned earlier that we had
set up every region with a, whatwe call the designated tracker.
And that person was basicallythe record keeper and the
guidance provider, the resourceperson, for people on job sites,
to let us know what was going onin regards to COVID. And people
(28:05):
having symptoms or that type ofthing. So what we found, we were
basically doing our own contacttracing. So if you have an
individual who woke up on Mondaymorning, and not feeling well
phones into the supervisor andsays, you know, what, I'm not
feeling well, today, I got acough, I got a runny nose, I got
(28:27):
a bit of a fever, you know, thatperson would immediately then be
in contact with the designatedtracker, and the designated
tracker would you know, capturetheir information, and, you
know, log it. And then, youknow, kind of go from there, you
know, provide direction onwhether or not a test would
(28:48):
would be appropriate or not,certainly, there's far less
testing going on now than therehas been over the past year.
Just because of the the natureof you know, vaccinations and a
certain percentage of peoplebeing vaccinated. There's not as
much testing going on now. Butif you look at, you know, so
(29:09):
what happened when somebodytested positive so. So if
somebody tests positive, then wewould have already been in
contact with them. In mostcases, for people that were
asymptomatic and then testingpositive, certainly, the
positive test would be the firsttime that we would be aware of
(29:29):
what was going on. But becausewe were doing our own contact
tracing and stuff like that,then we would then be trying to
understand whether or not peoplehad close contacts or not, who
they were, what areas of a jobsite they worked in on certain
days. And then we would lettheir co workers know and say,
(29:52):
okay, just to let you know, a coworker of yours has tested
positive, it appears that youmight have been And close
contact with him over the lastcouple of days or whatever,
monitor yourself, you know, youeither a, you know, you've got
to isolate right away, becausethat's the way that it kind of
(30:12):
used to be. And now thatisolation is kind of gone away
for for close contact, but I'mprobably doing a really crappy
job of explaining how we did ourown contact tracing. But, but in
large part because of what wewere doing, we were doing and
gathering information at a ratethat was far quicker than any of
(30:34):
the other provincial contacttracing authorities could do.
And on numerous occasions, fromevery, from all of the different
provincial health authoritiesthat we were dealing with, when
we got into situations where weneed to speak with where we
needed to speak with them, theywere very, very impressed and
(30:57):
very, very satisfied, andpleased to hear that the contact
tracing that we were doing, ofour own, was in itself, very,
very complete and made their joban awful lot easier as well,
Zack Hartle (31:15):
that phone call to the foreman in the morning,
feeling a little bit sick, it'sa much different phone call
today than it was 10 years ago,because 10 years ago would have
been I come to work, but
Neil Moffatt (31:27):
and you know, Jack, hey, you know, I mean,
you're absolutely bang on there.
Because that is one of thethings that, you know, early on,
needed to start changing in andit's that attitude about people
calling in sick. And, you know,and whether or not you're
(31:47):
talking about, you know, thehourly guy working on the job
site, or whether you're talkingabout the salaried person
working in the office, there'sno doubt that, you know, we've,
we had a pretty proud historyof, you know, showing up to work
every day, or, you know, andmaybe a little bit of a cough or
a little bit of this orwhatever. But on the flip side
(32:07):
of that, there's an awful lot ofsupervisors and bosses out there
that, you know, kind of, youknow, had the attitude that
really, you're sick again, youknow, or, or that type of thing.
Well, that is had to change, youknow, and we had to, we had to
let supervisors know that themessage that we were
(32:29):
communicating to our people,whether they were our earlier
staff, it didn't really matterwas, you know, the game has
changed. If you're not feelingwell, stay home, call in, let us
know, if appropriate, then we'llput you in contact with the
designated tracker. And thenwe're going to follow this
(32:50):
through so that you get theright type of help, or the right
number of days or whatever, thatyou can, you know, feel better.
So it's about removing that thatstigma associated with, you
know, Oh, sick again.
Zack Hartle (33:08):
Okay, yeah, power through, get her done, no matter
what it takes days are clearlycoming to an end.
Jason Cox (33:17):
Neal, is there any process or procedure that you
guys have picked up duringCOVID, that you guys would
probably continue to use movingforward, hopefully, after the
COVID crisis is over,
Neil Moffatt (33:29):
I think that we are definitely going to start
looking at how we get jobs done,or how we assign tasks
differently. Because we've seenthat some tasks that we might
have gotten used to having morethan one person do them, maybe
(33:50):
only one person needs to dothem. So I think that some of
those types of attitudes orthose types of work, changes in,
in in work processes areprobably going to be the ones
that that will change. You know,I'm I'm really hopeful that at
some point in time, we will beable to stop producing proof of
(34:14):
vaccination or a vaccinepassport. I mean, right now,
there seems to be about 10 or 12of those things out there. So I,
you know, I would like to thinkthat at some point, we'll, we'll
get past that. But I do thinkthat the opportunity to have a
look at how we're getting thework done. Is is going to change
(34:40):
and maybe more so in the youknow, in the administration or
on the company, you know,salaried staff type of thing.
COVID has presented anopportunity for people to take a
really hard look at the workprocesses that they do have, and
whether or not they'll workprocesses are those work
(35:01):
functions have to be performedby somebody in a physical space
in an office, as opposed toworking from home. And again, I
throw it out there as theopportunity, because that's the
way to kind of have a look atit. But I do think that you're
going to see people make somechanges in how they do that and
(35:27):
identify different types ofroles that don't necessarily
need to be performed by somebodyoccupying a 12 by 12. Office in
an industrial park somewhere. SoI, you know, I think that you're
going to see a little bit ofthe, I think you'll see some
companies that will do, willhave more of their work
(35:47):
functions conducted remotely.
Jason Cox (35:52):
Neil, is there a significant difference in how
you guys are treating COVID,looking at the perspective of
your workers going in on amassive construction site, and
then also your workers, maybe ina service van going into an
establishment?
Neil Moffatt (36:10):
I think that the only difference would really be
on the scale of what is inplace, whether it was a large
construction site or a smallservice site, customers building
or whatever, or whatever, therewould be either paper
questionnaire that would have tobe completed, or some kind of an
(36:31):
electronic version, that wouldbe more applicable in a in a
large case scenario.
Jason Cox (36:40):
And so is that slowing down the process for
workers to get into big jobsites? Or is it is it is it a
pretty quick process?
Neil Moffatt (36:49):
For the most part, it's a very quick process, it's
certainly quicker now than itwas when it was first brought
in. You know, I mentionedearlier that, you know, we had
to look at things likestaggering, lunchtime,
staggering break times, we alsohad to look at things like
staggering break times,especially on the larger sites,
(37:09):
so that you didn't haveeverybody showing up at the same
time. You know, if you, youknow, as a larger site, like the
cancer center, we have, youknow, a couple 100 people there,
well, you can, you know, maybeonly have, you only have 80 of
them showing up, but at onetime, and then another ad and
then another ad and then anotherad. So, those were changes that
(37:32):
needed to be made.
Jason Cox (37:34):
In on those big job sites, when you're coming in the
gates in the morning, was thegeneral contractor, the one that
was kind of looking at each ofthe contractors, or did you guys
kind of take care of your trade,plumbers took care of their
trade,
Neil Moffatt (37:48):
on the larger job sites where somebody has been
designated as the primecontractor than they were the
ones that were doing thatbecause that they're in control
as the prime contractor they'rein control are responsible for
the site from the client.
Excellent.
Zack Hartle (38:05):
You know, Neil, thanks so much for coming and
chatting with us here aboutCOVID. And I mean, I'm sure it's
been a hectic and busy 20 ishmonths for you now. So really
appreciate you taking the timejust to come share with us and
the few people who arelistening, hear your experiences
and how it's affected your work.
So we appreciate it.
Neil Moffatt (38:26):
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you.
Zack Hartle (38:31):
Thanks so much to everyone for listening in on our
conversation with Neil Moffat.
That was a pretty timely episodeto get in some experience in
dealing with COVID out there inthe industry. And I definitely
learned a lot. And Jason, I'mwondering what are some of your
takeaways from the show?
Jason Cox (38:46):
One of the takeaways I got from that episode, Zach
was that Neil's company wasworking with the five provinces
with their health boards for thecontact tracing so so it was
interesting to see that theirinitiative to keep their staff
working actually benefited thecontact tracers and each of the
(39:08):
provinces. Health Department.
Zack Hartle (39:11):
Yeah, love to hear that to how that little bit of
initiative kept that that clearmessage for all their employees,
right. Boys spread out over fiveprovinces getting that clear
message right now. It's justwithout a doubt one of the most
important things right to avoidthat misinformation and
confusion. So it's glad to hearabout that. Also glad to say
(39:31):
that Neil is likely going tocome back on the show to talk a
little bit more about theprovincial apprenticeship
committee or actually what itwill soon be called once the
dust settles on Bill 67. Somenew legislation passed here in
Alberta which has huge,overarching changes to the
electrical trade andapprenticeship training as a
whole so I'm really excited tohave him back to chat about
(39:53):
that.
Jason Cox (39:54):
Yeah, Zack this bill 67 It's gonna be a game changer.
That's what everyone keepstelling us. So when the dust
settles, Neil is exactly thekind of person we're looking for
in our episode. He's passionateabout the industry. He's been
volunteering with our industryfor years. And I think it'd be
very interesting to see when thebill is adopted just what
(40:17):
changes those are going to haveon apprenticeship, and
especially the electrical trade.
Zack Hartle (40:25):
Absolutely. And you know what, I think that's
everything we have for thisweek. So I just want to thank
everybody who came to listentoday. We are so glad to have
you. Please share the show witha friend. Let them know if you
like it. Of course you know, youcan find it anywhere you listen
to podcasts, Apple, Spotify,Google. Leave us a review, let
us know what you think. And asalways, keep yourself safe out
(40:48):
there. And if you can someoneelse to
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