The wireless networking landscape is witnessing a dramatic shift as revealed in the newly released 2025 Gartner Magic Quadrant for Enterprise Wired and Wireless LAN Infrastructure. Juniper Networks has emerged as the clear frontrunner, claiming the coveted top-right position with superior marks for both execution capability and strategic vision. Meanwhile, longtime industry leader Cisco shows signs of strategic drift despite maintaining strong execution abilities.
Newcomers are making waves too—Nile and Meter have stormed into the visionaries quadrant, though many industry experts believe Meter deserves an even stronger position for their innovative approach and comprehensive vision. When comparing this year's rankings to 2024, the movement reveals fascinating shifts in vendor positioning that signal where enterprise networking might be heading.
Even more intriguing is the recent Department of Justice approval of the $14 billion Juniper-HPE merger, but with substantial strings attached. HPE must divest its Instant On wireless business, and perhaps most significantly, Juniper's coveted Mist AI technology must be licensed through an auction process to competitors—with the stipulation that it cannot be integrated into Aruba Central or GreenLake platforms.
This restriction fundamentally challenges what many believed was the primary motivation behind the acquisition. As Drew Lentz explains through his vivid "botana effect" analogy (referencing a Texas nacho platter), HPE has all the individual components of a comprehensive networking solution, but lacks the unifying foundation that Mist AI was expected to provide.
The restrictions have sparked widespread speculation: Could Mist founder Bob Friday potentially leave Juniper to create a "Mist 2.0" with the licensed technology? Who might bid for these valuable AI capabilities? And how will these developments reshape the wireless networking landscape?
Whether you're managing enterprise networks, evaluating vendors, or simply fascinated by industry dynamics, these developments signal profound changes ahead in how networks are built, managed, and optimized. Subscribe now to stay ahead of these transformative industry shifts!
Thanks to our sponsors: Helium & meter Networks!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
hmm, ah well, are we going to talk about it?
I think we should talk about it.
Ah, you know Avicii what agreat artist.
(00:25):
Always a good time.
All right, let's talk about it.
Let's talk about what is goingon.
In the last two days, someinteresting things have
developed and instead of justwaiting and trying to aggregate
all the news and see what'sgoing on, I figured I would just
(00:46):
jump on and have a quick chatif anyone wants to join.
Hopefully we get a couplepeople to join in here.
Anyway, how's it going?
I'm Drew Lentz, wireless Nerd.
It is Monday, june 30th 2025.
Lots of interesting thingshappen across the weekend and I
wanted to talk about them, solet's see.
(01:06):
Should we talk about it?
First off, let me make sure Igot my little.
I got all my megabytes in order.
Make sure I can hear what I'm,what I'm saying.
I wonder if anyone's awake.
It seems like it's kind of late.
You know it's nine 30 at night.
I wonder if anybody's awakeright now.
I wonder if anybody's listening.
Um, you know, it looks like, uh, it looks like I'm live.
So there's that.
(01:27):
It's pretty cool.
Hope everybody's having a goodweekend.
July 4th is coming up in theStates, so that'll be exciting.
But here's what I want to talkabout.
You ready, we gonna talk aboutit, let's talk about it.
Let's discuss what's going onin the magical, magical quadrant
.
So stuff was pushed out todaythe Gartner Magic Quadrant for
(01:49):
those who don't know inEnterprise Wired and Wireless
LAN infrastructure was releasedas of June 2025, and everyone
seems to be talking about it onthe exact same day that it went
public.
And there's some movers, someshakers and some things here
that I thought are interesting,and I don't know how they
compare to last year, in allfairness, but you know who cares
(02:11):
about last year.
Let's look at 2025 and what'shappening in the Magic Quadrant.
I'm using Juniper's graphichere because Juniper looks like,
by far and away, they're takingthe top right corner, and if
you've never seen the magicquadrant before, here's what you
got.
On the left hand side, thebottom lower side.
(02:31):
It starts off with the abilityto execute right and you're
talking like, like, from a scaleof zero to I don't know 10 or
something I don't know.
Um, you've, you've got, you'vegot the magic quadrant that
shows who's doing what, and onthe bottom left-hand corner, um,
(02:52):
on that access, you've got zeroto 10.
Give me a second.
I was looking something up here.
Okay, that's what I thought.
I'm going to try and pull upthe results from the last one.
Um, think I can find it here.
I just got to open up a newwindow, anyway, okay, so down
bottom left-hand corner, you'vegot the ability to execute is at
the very bottom left and if youfollow the Y-axis and you look
(03:17):
at it, you have I believe it'sthe Y right.
Y is up.
Now.
You see, from zero all the wayup to the top with the ability
to execute, and then on thebottom corner again, going from
left to right.
It's a completeness of vision.
So ideally, you want to be allthe way up in the top right.
That means that you've got anextreme ability to execute and
(03:39):
you have a completeness ofvision.
So you know what you're doing,you know how to get there.
And they break it up in fourareas Bottom left-hand quadrant
is the niche players, bottomright-hand is the visionaries,
top right is the leaders and thetop left is the challengers,
meaning that they've got theability to execute, but maybe
their vision isn't complete,Maybe they're moving faster.
(04:02):
I'm teaching class on the MagicQuadrant, hey, man, you know.
For those who've never seen it,jake.
You know you never know what'sgoing on, but what you have is,
if you're on the top right-handside, that's generally the area
that everyone strives to be in.
I like the top left-hand side.
I think that that's kind ofcool, because those are people
that are up and coming,challenging the market.
Where you don't want to be ison the bottom left-hand corner.
(04:22):
It means you're incomplete andyou can't execute, and there's
some people that are down there.
Then the bottom right-hand sidemeans that you're so much of a
visionary but you just reallydon't have what it takes to
execute.
So normally this thing comes outand I'm not sure if I agree
with it or disagree with it, butthis year I'm looking at it and
(04:46):
I'm going okay, let me let mesee what's happening.
Plus, this year I've got apodcast audience I can chit chat
with, and so what I'm lookingat here is the one that's.
That's shocking to me and thisis what I want to see.
Hold on, let me go look at themagic quadrant from last year.
Magic quadrant 2020, what is it?
2024?
.
And then we're going to look upwired Whoa, if I could type it
(05:08):
correctly, wired and wireless.
Where were we last year.
So last year, look at this, ohboy, as of January 2024.
So this is coming fromFortinet's page.
Let's see, am I able to showthat off?
Yeah, dude, I'm showing thatoff.
Okay, if you look at where Ciscowas last year, they were in the
(05:31):
leaders section and they wereleading and had a completeness
of vision, and Juniper and HPwere up there, right, these guys
are just killing it Likethey're doing all these things
to just go crazy with it.
Xtreme was up there also.
(05:52):
But if you look at where we'reat this year, cisco's moved over
to the left, with thecompleteness of vision not being
what it was last year.
So it's like they they don't.
God you know, I sometimes, whenI talk, smack on the mic,
sometimes I think maybe, maybeI'm alone in my own little
corner of the world, and then Isee something like this pop out
and it's like, well, they'relagging behind exactly where I
thought they were lagging behind.
They've got the.
I would actually put theirability to execute is way higher
(06:15):
, in my opinion, than fortinetand it's probably higher than
hpe.
Huawei, I mean, you can't.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I would, would move, I wouldmove Cisco up, like up a little
bit, saying that they couldprobably execute a little bit
better.
Um, but their completeness ofvision, I think, is spot on.
Now, if you look at the leaderhere which is showing Juniper,
(06:37):
right, right up here, leadingwith their, with their ability
to execute and completeness ofvision, I mean I feel that I
feel like they're kind ofrunning away, they're getting
out there.
And it's neat to see that,because if you look at how the
merger which is the second thingI want to talk about how the
merger was just approved betweenHP and Juniper, this is going
(06:58):
to move HP.
Okay.
So that's the question Is thisgoing to move HP Aruba up to the
top right more, or is it goingto move Juniper networks down to
the bottom left more?
And then Fortinet good oldFortinet just hanging out, just
hanging out right there in thecorner.
Compared to where they werelast year, it looks like they
lost a little bit ofcompleteness of vision and it
(07:19):
looks like they moved.
No, no, they're about the samewhen it comes to ability to
execute, but Fortinet justholding on, just just hanging
out there, you know, like, likenot minding anybody, you know,
not minding what people aresaying is going on, they're just
chilling, chilling in thatquadrant living life, man, just
living life.
Okay, oh, here we go.
It's jonathan finney's onlineand, and this is going to be
(07:39):
perfect, I gotta figure out away to bring you into this
conversation other than justtalking on LinkedIn, because I'm
curious what this is.
Let's look at the other onesArista, where they have Arista
here, they moved Arista down.
Okay, so Arista last year waslower on ability to execute.
They're saying Arista's wayhigher on ability to execute now
(08:00):
, and then Extreme now and thenextreme.
Where are they showing withextreme dude, what they knocked
extreme down in ability toexecute and then uh, and then
back into the left oncompleteness of vision, dude.
You know, that's the thing, man.
Extreme, just extreme, justchugs along.
(08:20):
And if you don't think, if youdon't think extreme's doing
anything nuts to go to an MLBballpark, they're everywhere
they're.
Go to an NFL stadium, they'reeverywhere there.
I'm not trying to hear that.
I'm going to give extreme alittle bit more credit.
Now there's two other ones thatI want to look at, and you know
where I'm going with this.
Down below extreme, you've gotNile and meter almost head to
(08:40):
head and it seems like Niall isedging out the ability to
execute and the completeness ofvision over meter man.
I got to disagree with this.
I really have to disagree withthis.
I don't even know.
They weren't even on the map.
Like, literally on the map isof January 2024, this last one
that I'm referencing, right, andhere they are.
(09:02):
Gartner, I mean, maybe youdon't want to believe it and and
I don't, I disagree with theplacement.
I want to say they're eitherhead-to-head or meters got an
edge on Nile because meters,meters been doing this for a
little bit longer.
They've got their ducks in arow and their vision.
If you don't think they've gota completeness of vision, you
(09:24):
haven't been to one of theirshows, you haven't seen what
they're doing, you haven't seenthe entire package that's put
together there.
So, completeness of vision, Idisagree.
I think they've got a biggercompleteness of vision than
Arista does, for sure, and Ilove the guys at Arista.
But from a wireless perspective,man, I don't know.
You know, the thing is, is isso like, let's go back in time.
(09:53):
I remember when ruckus didn'teven place on this thing, when,
when, when ruckus wasn't evenconsidered part of the wired and
wireless uh infrastructuregroup because they were wireless
only, and it wasn't until theystarted cranking out switches
that they were even considered.
So you had all these wirelessvendors, airtight networks being
one of them that turned intomojo, that's now arista.
You had players like arrow hivethat just didn't exist on this
thing.
They couldn't get rated bygartner because it was wired and
(10:16):
wireless, it wasn't justwireless.
So now at least it seems likewe've got a better
representation of vendors thatare out there, um, but still
it's come a long way.
So let's get back to this thing.
So let's see.
Jake is asking do you think thatfolks are backsliding or is it
Juniper just stretching the lead?
That's a great question, jake.
I don't think Juniper isstretching that much.
(10:38):
Well, okay, I can answer ittwice.
Right, I do think Juniper isstretching the lead, but does
that?
Is it flat, you know?
Is it changing the curve man?
I feel like there's opportunityfor everybody to catch up.
I don't think Juniper's thatfar ahead, and I guess they are.
(10:59):
I mean, according to this, Imean, I can't, I don't want to
necessarily argue with that.
I think they are light yearsahead of HP Aruba, but I think
Cisco now is a little bit closer.
But again, this is of June 2025.
So this isn't including any ofthe new stuff that Cisco is
doing.
I think if you reevaluated thisnow where Cisco is, you would
move Cisco further to the right,in front of Fortinet, yeah, and
(11:20):
maybe head-to-head with HPE.
But then Nile and Meter Idisagree, man.
I disagree with this.
I think that they arevisionaries.
I think that they probablystill belong in that quadrant,
but I think their vision is wayfurther to the right.
I think I would even say thatMeter is a little bit further to
the right of Juniper.
I would say that Meter needs tobe way out to the right in a
(11:42):
class of their own.
But their ability to execute,just because they don't have the
market share, might not beabove that 50% mark.
I don't know.
What else do we have?
Oh, eva's on.
Hey, eva, you know I, yeah,it's, it's.
I see.
I think Comscopes are right on.
I think Allied Telesis, evenbeing in there, is kind of weird
(12:04):
.
Join Digital, that's a newcomerthat's on there.
They weren't there last year,were they?
I don't remember seeing them.
Allied Telesis, no, theyweren't even in there.
Join Digital got to learn alittle bit about them at Wi-Fi.
Now, man Klaus hosted them inSilicon Valley.
Join Digital is pretty cool,but they're all based on open
(12:26):
Wi-Fi, so I don't know that thecompleteness of vision even
lives on.
I need to learn more about them.
I don't know that thecompleteness of vision is even
necessarily everything thatthey're doing, since they're
using that.
What is H3C?
Why don't I know this?
Anyone want to give me a hintbefore I just Google it?
H3c why don't I know this?
Anyone want to give me a hintbefore I just Google it?
(12:46):
H3c why don't I?
I should know what that is.
H3c An industry leader inprovision of digital solutions.
H3c Campus switching.
Dude, I have never in my lifecome across H3C.
Or is it HEC?
H3c?
Never come across them.
Wow, okay, well, dude, therethey are hanging out in the
(13:08):
magic quadrant.
Okay, yeah, h3ccom.
I had not seen them before.
And ALE yeah, okay, it'sAlcatel.
I was like I didn't realize itwas Alcatel-Lucent Enterprise.
I thought Alcatel-Lucent had,like, faded away into the
darkness.
Anyway, maybe not.
So this is the Magic Quadrantfor 2025.
(13:34):
Showing Juniper with a clear upand to the right, tp-link bottom
and to the left, not gainingany traction.
Looks like compared to wherethey were last year is just
about the same.
Allied Telesis Whoa big moverover there, moving to the right
in completeness of vision, so itlooks like their stuff's coming
together.
I disagree with placement ofnylon meter.
H3c was part of old HP network.
(13:55):
Got it Former 3Com?
Oh, wow, okay.
Well, that's interesting, man,there's a name I haven't heard
in a minute.
I don't know.
What do you guys think?
I mean, you guys are all overthe chat today.
This is great.
What's up chat?
I can say that now becausethere's three people listening.
What do you think?
Do you think this is right on?
Do you think it's off?
A little bit.
(14:15):
I would say, looking at thisyear's 2025 Gartner Magic
Quadrant, I think Juniper doeshave a good lead up into the
right.
I think Nile and Meter aremisplaced.
I think Meter should be a lotfurther to the right, maybe even
further to the right thanJuniper and their ability to
execute.
Is this taking into account$170 million of their latest
(14:36):
investment?
Because that's some fuel in thetank, if you know what I'm
saying, brother.
I don't know man.
I think Meter's misplaced onthis one.
I same brother.
I don't know man.
I think meters misplaced onthis one.
I think extreme needs a lotmore love.
Uh, you know, not hearing muchfrom arista.
I think comscope ruckus hasjust fallen, fallen down into
the left and I mean, even likeyou saw, you know, for those
y'all that pay attention to thelinkedins, uh, eric, the guy who
(14:56):
is running all of um, you knowthe k-12 guy, eric, and um,
henrik heinrich.
I forgot his name.
I've only met him a couple oftimes, but that guy is such a
great powerhouse in theeducational space and to see him
now moving over to Juniper,that was a shocker.
I didn't see that one coming.
That was a fun thing to read.
So I don't know.
I agree on meeting being moreahead.
Yeah, I mean, obviously I thinkso.
(15:18):
And for those of y'all thatdon't know, meter, yes, meter is
a sponsor of the waves podcast,but that doesn't mean that I'm
not calling it like it is.
I think they should be a lotfurther to the right.
But this is also this has to do.
You know, as with anything, ithas to do with how much you know
about a product and how muchyou've researched a product and
how much you've looked into aproduct.
I've spent a lot of timelooking at the ones that that I
(15:40):
favor.
I haven't spent any timelooking at Huawei.
I can't tell you if Huawei isplaced right or not.
I can't tell you ifAlcatel-Lucent is placed right
or not, or H3C.
I can tell you that I think,from the ones that I know, I
think that the Juniper and HPones are good.
I think Cisco actually needs tobe further to the left and I
think Meter needs to be furtherto the right.
(16:02):
I think those are the bigchanges that I would make.
So, if this is your first timelooking at the 2025 Gartner
Magic Quadrant, that's my littlebreakdown.
Let's see what Eva's saying.
I think it's right for the mostpart, but not sure when the
cutoff of this chart was.
Yeah, totally agree.
I think that has a lot to dowith it.
A lot has happened just in thelast three weeks, man.
So, eva, I think you're spot onwith that.
Many of these companies havehad big news recently that
(16:24):
weren't factored in, for betteror worse.
Totally agree, totally agreewith you.
I mean, as with anything, it'sa snapshot of where it's going.
But I will tell you if youdiscount, if you take away the
announcements at Cisco Live andyou take away the new
fundraising effort from Meternot fundraising, but the raise
from Meter if you take those outand you look at and before the
(16:46):
press release about hp and Idon't think the press release
has anything to do with it, butif you go pre-cisco live, I
think this was spot on, andpre-cisco live I would still say
meters way further to the rightand cisco's way further to the
left.
But that's just what I'mthinking now.
The other thing I want to talkabout is and I blame I Mr Finney
for this is all of the jibberjabber.
(17:06):
You can see who I'm looking athere.
Let's jump onto my LinkedIn.
I love to share my LinkedInCause.
Then people are like I saw thatyou had searched for this.
Look at this, we're gonna havesome fun with this one.
This is what happens.
You get online and you starttalking smack and then I call
you out and I I put your uh, Iput your post front and center
on the screen for the wholeworld of the wireless nerds to
watch.
So this is interesting, man,since no one else is talking
(17:29):
about it or maybe just read itwrong, this is taking a
direction of being its owncompany.
So what this is talking about.
This is a very eye-catchinggraphic.
Ten points to you, sir.
An extra three internets foryou for having a graphic that
got people a little shook.
What does this mean?
Oh, before I get into that, Iwant you to know that you called
(17:50):
out RIP Air Magnet down here.
There was a productannouncement today about the new
, updated version of Air Magnet.
So if you don't know what'sgoing on, go check out NetAlly
Air Magnet and take a look atwhat they're doing, because it's
funny that you said Air Magnetis a dead product at this point
and they just made a.
They just had a release on that.
So, anyway, just for whatthat's worth.
(18:11):
So let's go back and talk aboutthe matter at hand.
The matter at hand is that theDOJ came out and they said that
that the merger was good to go.
That missed.
I'm sorry that Juniper and HPEcould merge as long as they did
a couple of different things.
And let's go ahead and let's dothe magic screen share thing
here.
Let's look at Reuters.
Right, there's a good one.
They say, yep, $14 billiontakeover is great, except
(18:34):
there's a couple of things thatthey have to do.
Right, the cell phone requiresa combined company to divest an
advertisement for a streamingtool.
The cell phone requires acombined company to divest hpe's
instant on wireless networkingbusiness.
Okay, so that's number one.
So what does that mean?
That means that their instanton product that has been their,
their uh basic entry levelproduct let's take a look at.
(18:56):
Let's just google instant onreal quick.
This was their small businessuh stuff, it's quick and easy to
set up.
It was it was meant to handlejust small business stuff.
It's quick and easy to set up.
It was meant to handle justsmall business without having
all the complexity that goesbehind Aruba Central and
controller-based applicationsand all that.
It runs across an app, butstill from a price point, still
(19:18):
not a low price point, butsomething that was simple.
So they're saying, okay, yougot to dump Instant On, that's
number one.
And after you dump instant on,the second thing you have to do
license the source code forJuniper's Mist AI software using
in Juniper's WLAN products.
Okay.
So I read that and I was likeI'm not really sure what that
(19:40):
means.
I wonder if anyone's gone outand done the research.
Okay, well, it turns out helloInternet On the Internet.
Now it says that part of this isthem going off and offering
they have to auction off toparties that can take advantage
of it.
They have to auction off themissed AI software.
(20:03):
So here it is right.
Aiops for missed bidders meansthe companies that participate
in AIOps.
Defendants is those people.
Hp is this group, juniper is adefendant.
Aiops for missed license meanswhere is it the bidder, bidders
that meet the required criteriafor missed AIOps?
Source code auction to whichdefendants license the AIOps for
missed source code license.
(20:24):
Aiops for missed source codemeans a source code, and so the
idea here is that they have to.
There's the stuff about.
I didn't even see the rest ofthis Divestiture personnel.
Oh no, all right, jonathan'sgoing to explain this.
One man, I just got to figureout how to get you on this thing
.
Hp gets to keep missed AI.
Man, I just got to figure outhow to get you on this thing.
Hp gets to keep missed AI.
But it also means that acompetitor not named Cisco they
(20:44):
hold too much market share canabsolutely take the missed AI
and run with it.
Speculative conversation coming.
Either someone like Xtreme oreven a private private equity
baked with enough capital withBob Friday, gets to take his
toys and create Miss 2.0,although they wouldn't be
legally allowed to call it Miss2.0 through the DOJ approved
auction process, which HP haszero say in who gets it.
(21:05):
So they have to license thisstuff off, they've got to go and
they've got to make itavailable to someone who can use
it and say, okay, you've got,you have the ability to use this
and you have the ability to ownlicense.
And then now they will own thelicense and it will be licensed
to HPE, but meaning it couldalso be licensed to other people
.
So like, let's say thatJonathan Finley decides that
(21:27):
he's going to use that, he'sgoing to go bid on this and he's
going to buy it.
He's going to license it backto HPE, but he can also license
it to other groups.
So the question is is whoeveracquires this, are they going to
license it to HPE only orJuniper only?
Are they going to license it toeveryone?
Are they going to not licenseit?
(21:48):
I don't know.
There's a lot to go in here.
Also, to note, they cannot bakeMyst AI into Aruba Central or
Green Lake.
So Aruba Central and Green Lakecannot have it integrated into
it.
That's stipulated in here.
And it must also provideupdates they make to the missed
AI with the winning bidder.
So it looks like it still getsto go at 100%.
They must provide support andall updates to the source code
(22:09):
they do.
So this is someone who's goingto be set up where, when they
win it, it's money in the bank,right?
This is someone who's got thecapital, who's got the drive,
who's got the knowledge.
Who wants to purchase this?
And that company is going tohave a baked-in client.
Am I reading that right?
They're going to just be ableto license it directly to HP as
(22:29):
part of this deal, but it can'tbe owned by HP and it can't be
Cisco that owns it.
So, private equity, eat yourheart out.
You know, all the chips aregoing to fall right and we're
going to see who bids on thisand we're going to see who bids
on this.
We're going to see who wins andwe're going to see how that
plays into.
Who started this whole hoopla inthe first place?
I guess, um, this is a.
This is a fascinating turn ofevents.
(22:51):
But will it launch miss 2.0?
Is bob gonna leave juniper andgo start his own miss 2.0 and
license his own is?
Does he get?
Does he get his baby back andhe gets a license as baby?
Oh, bob, you know it's funny.
I was walking through, I waswalking through the national
retail Federation show and I saw, uh, and dude, listen, if
(23:13):
you're listening to this, youprobably know me and you
probably know the same peoplethat I do, and it's always fun
to run into the people that wedo.
If you don't know me and youdon't actually personally know
me or a lot of these people Italk about I'm not talking about
them like these aren't thecelebrities.
Bob's kind of a celebrity, Iguess.
But, dude, when you run intohim it's hilarious, because I'm
walking on the show floor andthere's Bob eating a hot dog and
(23:35):
I look at Bob and go, bob, whatare you doing here?
He goes Drew, what are youdoing here?
And it was a fun littleconversation and I asked him.
I said what's next?
Like, are you going to stickaround?
He says, man, I got like thisis going to be great.
I have no idea what's comingnext, I have no idea what to
expect from this, and so I'msure Bob's just sitting back
having a good old time with that.
So kudos to him for everythingthat he did.
(24:10):
But let's see where time framein this.
Was there a time frame,jonathan?
Did you see a time framementioned anywhere in here?
Um maintain the sites ofrevenue 2024 2025.
Defendants must maintainworking conditions, staffing
levels and workforce trainingexpertise of all relevant hp
diversiture personnel.
Relevant hp diversiturepersonnel must not be
transferred or assigned exceptto the acquirer or if initiated
by the employee personuant to HP.
I mean, there's someinteresting stipulations in this
.
Defendants must maintain alllicenses, permits, approvals,
authorizations andcertifications related or
(24:31):
necessary for the operation ofthe HP divestiture assets and
must operate in compliance withlaw.
This is, I mean, this is kindof interesting.
Anyway, if you're as much of anerd as we are flipping back
over here so you can see allthis, then I'm curious what you
think is going to happen withthis and and how this is going
(24:52):
to shake up, because a lot ofpeople have said have said
pretty much the same thing.
If you look at it, it's a lotof people saying, hey, man, I
thought the whole reason thatthey bought this was to get
their hands on on missed AI, youknow?
And now that you can't do that,now what?
Let's see what the most recentcomments are there.
(25:12):
Missed 2.0.
Where does it go from here?
A good discussion point.
What if HP truly won the missedpart?
Or the acquisition was all aboutJuniper and the data center?
I don't know.
Do you think it was about the,the data center?
I mean, I really I love whathpe has put together with aruba
and with, with raza and withcape and with you know
(25:33):
everything that they, that theystacked up.
They've got this great littlebox of toys right that we're all
supposed to magically worktogether and I really did think
that, with this acquisition,that mist was going to be the
magic sauce that tied them alltogether.
Well, now, you can't bake itinto central, you can't run it
on green lake.
It's got to be this third partyservice with these hooks that
(25:54):
tie everything together.
Is it going to be the magicsauce?
You know, I talk about thenacho effect or the, the botana
effects.
In south texas we have thesethings called botanas, and if
you haven't heard me use thisexample, let me try, uh, let me
try and bring up an image of abotana.
A botana is like, it's likenachos man and what they.
(26:15):
What they do in a botanaplatter is they stack all the
meats, uh, and they stack allthe meats and they stack all the
food right on top of each other.
So look, here's a screenshotfrom Texas Monthly.
So right there in the middle,you've got the quesadillas,
you've got chicken fajitas, beeffajitas, you've got all the
peppers, you've got jalapenos,you've got tomatoes and cheese
(26:35):
and beans and all this stuff,right, and what they do is they
line chips all on the bottom ofit, man, and those chips have
melted cheese and frijoles onthem and they've got beans on
them and they're set up and thenthey load all the stuff on
there like all the goodness, andthe botana is like this platter
, that's like everybody.
It's like a buffet on a platter, man, and with botanas.
(26:59):
Some of the best parts of thebotana are at the very bottom,
and at the bottom you can pulloff a chip and my daughter and I
will go on nacho datessometimes my oldest daughter and
it's like when you pull off thechip, you want the chip that
has all of the things on itright?
It's the perfect mixture of allof the grease and the cheese
and the food and the meat andthe salt and the pepper, and
it's a perfect chip.
And me I think about, I thinkabout hp as all of the
(27:25):
ingredients for a botana, right,they've got the quesadillas and
they've got the, the nachos andthe chips and the you know, the
beans and the meat and all thethings, all the onions and all
the goodness, but there's neverbeen.
They're all individual, they'reall individualized, right, they
have all these different thingsand there's no magic chip, like
there's no layer of tortillachips on the bottom that's
(27:46):
collecting all the goodness andso that like there's that piece
that's missing from it, thatcomponent, and I'm hungry.
But also that's what I thoughtMist was going to bring to this.
It was going to be those magic,that magic layer of nacho chips
on the bottom that captured allof the goodness and it was
going to be like the HPE botanaand to learn what's going on.
(28:07):
It's like man, that's kind oflike I don't know if it's going
to be there.
Okay, so back to what Jake wassaying.
Not Jake, jonathan has somegood stuff.
Jake was saying data centerservice for our real firewall.
Yep, absolutely get that.
Jonathan's saying this might besome fire, but, yes, gpt helps.
But I decided to throw Bob'spost in the GPT and I asked it
(28:29):
let's go for full forensiclinguistic strategic analysis on
a Bob Friday post.
Here's a detailed breakdown oftone where this is so good.
I hope y'all are on LinkedInreading these comments, man,
because this is so awesome.
Bob Friday's post is amasterclass in subtle narrative
control.
Gpt says he asserts ownershipof misintellectual property, he
defends its integrity againstcommodization, he intentionally
(28:51):
avoids signaling alignment withHP and he celebrates the present
while carefully avoidingcommitments to the future.
This is not a victory lap.
It's a prelude to a potentialreemergence.
Okay, so if you feed theLinkedIn post into GPT, that's
what it tells you.
Oh my God, dude, that ishilarious.
Um, you never know what's goingto happen, man, it's going to
(29:13):
be, it's going to be fascinatingeither way to to understand
what's going on with all this.
But, oh boy, all right.
Well, listen, that was 30minutes of fun.
I appreciate everyone with theback and forth on on linkedin
and on youtube.
I just want to talk about thosethings real quick, just because
the magic quadrant's out andyou know, and it goes hand in
hand with what's happening withthis deal.
(29:33):
You know I don't have a dog inthe race on either one of them,
but I do love to see innovationand things happening in the
wireless space and things likethis always spark interest and
to get people excited abouttechnology and where it is.
So the big question is you knowwhen's Wi-Fi 8 coming out?
No, I don't know.
Is 5G going to take over Wi-Fi?
No, it's not.
Oh my God.
And I'm getting some heat.
Speaking of heat, I'm gettingsome heat for that post where I
(29:57):
called Private 5G.
I made it akin to a cell phoneholster.
Some people did not like that.
They got a little offended, butit also sparked some good
conversation.
Anyway, I'll probably be backonline tomorrow and I'll talk
about the news and do therundown and all that other stuff
.
But I figured at least thiswould be fun for a conversation.
Plus, if I get a thousand morelisten hours, I can monetize on
YouTube.
And I want to check out mylights on the camera to see if
(30:19):
this switching camera washelpful.
It's going to be an interestingto see what happens and comes
up.
Biggest news of the year yeah,it's definitely it's worth
spending some time chit-chattingabout.
I agree with that.
If you want to follow up what'sgoing on, go find Jonathan
Finney online on LinkedIn.
Go find me on LinkedIn, keep upwith us on all the social
medias and whatnot.
But for now I'm going to letyou guys go.
(30:47):
I'm going to go find somenachos and see if I can make a
botana of my own.
I will talk to you all thisweek again, right before July
4th, we'll have another episodeof the waves podcast and then,
um, next week if I can figureout how to, how to do that from
the road I will be out of townnext week in another country
that I've never been to andthere are waves there, so maybe
it'll be some, uh, some, somewaves from a different, a
different equatorial part of theworld.
Anyway, hope y'all have awonderful evening.
Thanks for listening always funto chit chat.
(31:09):
I appreciate you guys see.
hmm, ah well, are we going to talk about it?
I think we should talk about it.
Ah, you know Avicii what agreat artist.
(00:25):
Always a good time.
All right, let's talk about it.
Let's talk about what is goingon.
In the last two days, someinteresting things have
developed and instead of justwaiting and trying to aggregate
all the news and see what'sgoing on, I figured I would just
(00:46):
jump on and have a quick chatif anyone wants to join.
Hopefully we get a couplepeople to join in here.
Anyway, how's it going?
I'm Drew Lentz, wireless Nerd.
It is Monday, june 30th 2025.
Lots of interesting thingshappen across the weekend and I
wanted to talk about them, solet's see.
(01:06):
Should we talk about it?
First off, let me make sure Igot my little.
I got all my megabytes in order.
Make sure I can hear what I'm,what I'm saying.
I wonder if anyone's awake.
It seems like it's kind of late.
You know it's nine 30 at night.
I wonder if anybody's awakeright now.
I wonder if anybody's listening.
Um, you know, it looks like, uh, it looks like I'm live.
So there's that.
(01:27):
It's pretty cool.
Hope everybody's having a goodweekend.
July 4th is coming up in theStates, so that'll be exciting.
But here's what I want to talkabout.
You ready, we gonna talk aboutit, let's talk about it.
Let's discuss what's going onin the magical, magical quadrant
.
So stuff was pushed out todaythe Gartner Magic Quadrant for
(01:49):
those who don't know inEnterprise Wired and Wireless
LAN infrastructure was releasedas of June 2025, and everyone
seems to be talking about it onthe exact same day that it went
public.
And there's some movers, someshakers and some things here
that I thought are interesting,and I don't know how they
compare to last year, in allfairness, but you know who cares
(02:11):
about last year.
Let's look at 2025 and what'shappening in the Magic Quadrant.
I'm using Juniper's graphichere because Juniper looks like,
by far and away, they're takingthe top right corner, and if
you've never seen the magicquadrant before, here's what you
got.
On the left hand side, thebottom lower side.
(02:31):
It starts off with the abilityto execute right and you're
talking like, like, from a scaleof zero to I don't know 10 or
something I don't know.
Um, you've, you've got, you'vegot the magic quadrant that
shows who's doing what, and onthe bottom left-hand corner, um,
(02:52):
on that access, you've got zeroto 10.
Give me a second.
I was looking something up here.
Okay, that's what I thought.
I'm going to try and pull upthe results from the last one.
Um, think I can find it here.
I just got to open up a newwindow, anyway, okay, so down
bottom left-hand corner, you'vegot the ability to execute is at
the very bottom left and if youfollow the Y-axis and you look
(03:17):
at it, you have I believe it'sthe Y right.
Y is up.
Now.
You see, from zero all the wayup to the top with the ability
to execute, and then on thebottom corner again, going from
left to right.
It's a completeness of vision.
So ideally, you want to be allthe way up in the top right.
That means that you've got anextreme ability to execute and
(03:39):
you have a completeness ofvision.
So you know what you're doing,you know how to get there.
And they break it up in fourareas Bottom left-hand quadrant
is the niche players, bottomright-hand is the visionaries,
top right is the leaders and thetop left is the challengers,
meaning that they've got theability to execute, but maybe
their vision isn't complete,Maybe they're moving faster.
(04:02):
I'm teaching class on the MagicQuadrant, hey, man, you know.
For those who've never seen it,jake.
You know you never know what'sgoing on, but what you have is,
if you're on the top right-handside, that's generally the area
that everyone strives to be in.
I like the top left-hand side.
I think that that's kind ofcool, because those are people
that are up and coming,challenging the market.
Where you don't want to be ison the bottom left-hand corner.
(04:22):
It means you're incomplete andyou can't execute, and there's
some people that are down there.
Then the bottom right-hand sidemeans that you're so much of a
visionary but you just reallydon't have what it takes to
execute.
So normally this thing comes outand I'm not sure if I agree
with it or disagree with it, butthis year I'm looking at it and
(04:46):
I'm going okay, let me let mesee what's happening.
Plus, this year I've got apodcast audience I can chit chat
with, and so what I'm lookingat here is the one that's.
That's shocking to me and thisis what I want to see.
Hold on, let me go look at themagic quadrant from last year.
Magic quadrant 2020, what is it?
2024?
.
And then we're going to look upwired Whoa, if I could type it
(05:08):
correctly, wired and wireless.
Where were we last year.
So last year, look at this, ohboy, as of January 2024.
So this is coming fromFortinet's page.
Let's see, am I able to showthat off?
Yeah, dude, I'm showing thatoff.
Okay, if you look at where Ciscowas last year, they were in the
(05:31):
leaders section and they wereleading and had a completeness
of vision, and Juniper and HPwere up there, right, these guys
are just killing it Likethey're doing all these things
to just go crazy with it.
Xtreme was up there also.
(05:52):
But if you look at where we'reat this year, cisco's moved over
to the left, with thecompleteness of vision not being
what it was last year.
So it's like they they don't.
God you know, I sometimes, whenI talk, smack on the mic,
sometimes I think maybe, maybeI'm alone in my own little
corner of the world, and then Isee something like this pop out
and it's like, well, they'relagging behind exactly where I
thought they were lagging behind.
They've got the.
I would actually put theirability to execute is way higher
(06:15):
, in my opinion, than fortinetand it's probably higher than
hpe.
Huawei, I mean, you can't.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I would, would move, I wouldmove Cisco up, like up a little
bit, saying that they couldprobably execute a little bit
better.
Um, but their completeness ofvision, I think, is spot on.
Now, if you look at the leaderhere which is showing Juniper,
(06:37):
right, right up here, leadingwith their, with their ability
to execute and completeness ofvision, I mean I feel that I
feel like they're kind ofrunning away, they're getting
out there.
And it's neat to see that,because if you look at how the
merger which is the second thingI want to talk about how the
merger was just approved betweenHP and Juniper, this is going
(06:58):
to move HP.
Okay.
So that's the question Is thisgoing to move HP Aruba up to the
top right more, or is it goingto move Juniper networks down to
the bottom left more?
And then Fortinet good oldFortinet just hanging out, just
hanging out right there in thecorner.
Compared to where they werelast year, it looks like they
lost a little bit ofcompleteness of vision and it
(07:19):
looks like they moved.
No, no, they're about the samewhen it comes to ability to
execute, but Fortinet justholding on, just just hanging
out there, you know, like, likenot minding anybody, you know,
not minding what people aresaying is going on, they're just
chilling, chilling in thatquadrant living life, man, just
living life.
Okay, oh, here we go.
It's jonathan finney's onlineand, and this is going to be
(07:39):
perfect, I gotta figure out away to bring you into this
conversation other than justtalking on LinkedIn, because I'm
curious what this is.
Let's look at the other onesArista, where they have Arista
here, they moved Arista down.
Okay, so Arista last year waslower on ability to execute.
They're saying Arista's wayhigher on ability to execute now
(08:00):
, and then Extreme now and thenextreme.
Where are they showing withextreme dude, what they knocked
extreme down in ability toexecute and then uh, and then
back into the left oncompleteness of vision, dude.
You know, that's the thing, man.
Extreme, just extreme, justchugs along.
(08:20):
And if you don't think, if youdon't think extreme's doing
anything nuts to go to an MLBballpark, they're everywhere
they're.
Go to an NFL stadium, they'reeverywhere there.
I'm not trying to hear that.
I'm going to give extreme alittle bit more credit.
Now there's two other ones thatI want to look at, and you know
where I'm going with this.
Down below extreme, you've gotNile and meter almost head to
(08:40):
head and it seems like Niall isedging out the ability to
execute and the completeness ofvision over meter man.
I got to disagree with this.
I really have to disagree withthis.
I don't even know.
They weren't even on the map.
Like, literally on the map isof January 2024, this last one
that I'm referencing, right, andhere they are.
(09:02):
Gartner, I mean, maybe youdon't want to believe it and and
I don't, I disagree with theplacement.
I want to say they're eitherhead-to-head or meters got an
edge on Nile because meters,meters been doing this for a
little bit longer.
They've got their ducks in arow and their vision.
If you don't think they've gota completeness of vision, you
(09:24):
haven't been to one of theirshows, you haven't seen what
they're doing, you haven't seenthe entire package that's put
together there.
So, completeness of vision, Idisagree.
I think they've got a biggercompleteness of vision than
Arista does, for sure, and Ilove the guys at Arista.
But from a wireless perspective,man, I don't know.
You know, the thing is, is isso like, let's go back in time.
(09:53):
I remember when ruckus didn'teven place on this thing, when,
when, when ruckus wasn't evenconsidered part of the wired and
wireless uh infrastructuregroup because they were wireless
only, and it wasn't until theystarted cranking out switches
that they were even considered.
So you had all these wirelessvendors, airtight networks being
one of them that turned intomojo, that's now arista.
You had players like arrow hivethat just didn't exist on this
thing.
They couldn't get rated bygartner because it was wired and
(10:16):
wireless, it wasn't justwireless.
So now at least it seems likewe've got a better
representation of vendors thatare out there, um, but still
it's come a long way.
So let's get back to this thing.
So let's see.
Jake is asking do you think thatfolks are backsliding or is it
Juniper just stretching the lead?
That's a great question, jake.
I don't think Juniper isstretching that much.
(10:38):
Well, okay, I can answer ittwice.
Right, I do think Juniper isstretching the lead, but does
that?
Is it flat, you know?
Is it changing the curve man?
I feel like there's opportunityfor everybody to catch up.
I don't think Juniper's thatfar ahead, and I guess they are.
(10:59):
I mean, according to this, Imean, I can't, I don't want to
necessarily argue with that.
I think they are light yearsahead of HP Aruba, but I think
Cisco now is a little bit closer.
But again, this is of June 2025.
So this isn't including any ofthe new stuff that Cisco is
doing.
I think if you reevaluated thisnow where Cisco is, you would
move Cisco further to the right,in front of Fortinet, yeah, and
(11:20):
maybe head-to-head with HPE.
But then Nile and Meter Idisagree, man.
I disagree with this.
I think that they arevisionaries.
I think that they probablystill belong in that quadrant,
but I think their vision is wayfurther to the right.
I think I would even say thatMeter is a little bit further to
the right of Juniper.
I would say that Meter needs tobe way out to the right in a
(11:42):
class of their own.
But their ability to execute,just because they don't have the
market share, might not beabove that 50% mark.
I don't know.
What else do we have?
Oh, eva's on.
Hey, eva, you know I, yeah,it's, it's.
I see.
I think Comscopes are right on.
I think Allied Telesis, evenbeing in there, is kind of weird
(12:04):
.
Join Digital, that's a newcomerthat's on there.
They weren't there last year,were they?
I don't remember seeing them.
Allied Telesis, no, theyweren't even in there.
Join Digital got to learn alittle bit about them at Wi-Fi.
Now, man Klaus hosted them inSilicon Valley.
Join Digital is pretty cool,but they're all based on open
(12:26):
Wi-Fi, so I don't know that thecompleteness of vision even
lives on.
I need to learn more about them.
I don't know that thecompleteness of vision is even
necessarily everything thatthey're doing, since they're
using that.
What is H3C?
Why don't I know this?
Anyone want to give me a hintbefore I just Google it?
H3c why don't I know this?
Anyone want to give me a hintbefore I just Google it?
(12:46):
H3c why don't I?
I should know what that is.
H3c An industry leader inprovision of digital solutions.
H3c Campus switching.
Dude, I have never in my lifecome across H3C.
Or is it HEC?
H3c?
Never come across them.
Wow, okay, well, dude, therethey are hanging out in the
(13:08):
magic quadrant.
Okay, yeah, h3ccom.
I had not seen them before.
And ALE yeah, okay, it'sAlcatel.
I was like I didn't realize itwas Alcatel-Lucent Enterprise.
I thought Alcatel-Lucent had,like, faded away into the
darkness.
Anyway, maybe not.
So this is the Magic Quadrantfor 2025.
(13:34):
Showing Juniper with a clear upand to the right, tp-link bottom
and to the left, not gainingany traction.
Looks like compared to wherethey were last year is just
about the same.
Allied Telesis Whoa big moverover there, moving to the right
in completeness of vision, so itlooks like their stuff's coming
together.
I disagree with placement ofnylon meter.
H3c was part of old HP network.
(13:55):
Got it Former 3Com?
Oh, wow, okay.
Well, that's interesting, man,there's a name I haven't heard
in a minute.
I don't know.
What do you guys think?
I mean, you guys are all overthe chat today.
This is great.
What's up chat?
I can say that now becausethere's three people listening.
What do you think?
Do you think this is right on?
Do you think it's off?
A little bit.
(14:15):
I would say, looking at thisyear's 2025 Gartner Magic
Quadrant, I think Juniper doeshave a good lead up into the
right.
I think Nile and Meter aremisplaced.
I think Meter should be a lotfurther to the right, maybe even
further to the right thanJuniper and their ability to
execute.
Is this taking into account$170 million of their latest
(14:36):
investment?
Because that's some fuel in thetank, if you know what I'm
saying, brother.
I don't know man.
I think Meter's misplaced onthis one.
I same brother.
I don't know man.
I think meters misplaced onthis one.
I think extreme needs a lotmore love.
Uh, you know, not hearing muchfrom arista.
I think comscope ruckus hasjust fallen, fallen down into
the left and I mean, even likeyou saw, you know, for those
y'all that pay attention to thelinkedins, uh, eric, the guy who
(14:56):
is running all of um, you knowthe k-12 guy, eric, and um,
henrik heinrich.
I forgot his name.
I've only met him a couple oftimes, but that guy is such a
great powerhouse in theeducational space and to see him
now moving over to Juniper,that was a shocker.
I didn't see that one coming.
That was a fun thing to read.
So I don't know.
I agree on meeting being moreahead.
Yeah, I mean, obviously I thinkso.
(15:18):
And for those of y'all thatdon't know, meter, yes, meter is
a sponsor of the waves podcast,but that doesn't mean that I'm
not calling it like it is.
I think they should be a lotfurther to the right.
But this is also this has to do.
You know, as with anything, ithas to do with how much you know
about a product and how muchyou've researched a product and
how much you've looked into aproduct.
I've spent a lot of timelooking at the ones that that I
(15:40):
favor.
I haven't spent any timelooking at Huawei.
I can't tell you if Huawei isplaced right or not.
I can't tell you ifAlcatel-Lucent is placed right
or not, or H3C.
I can tell you that I think,from the ones that I know, I
think that the Juniper and HPones are good.
I think Cisco actually needs tobe further to the left and I
think Meter needs to be furtherto the right.
(16:02):
I think those are the bigchanges that I would make.
So, if this is your first timelooking at the 2025 Gartner
Magic Quadrant, that's my littlebreakdown.
Let's see what Eva's saying.
I think it's right for the mostpart, but not sure when the
cutoff of this chart was.
Yeah, totally agree.
I think that has a lot to dowith it.
A lot has happened just in thelast three weeks, man.
So, eva, I think you're spot onwith that.
Many of these companies havehad big news recently that
(16:24):
weren't factored in, for betteror worse.
Totally agree, totally agreewith you.
I mean, as with anything, it'sa snapshot of where it's going.
But I will tell you if youdiscount, if you take away the
announcements at Cisco Live andyou take away the new
fundraising effort from Meternot fundraising, but the raise
from Meter if you take those outand you look at and before the
(16:46):
press release about hp and Idon't think the press release
has anything to do with it, butif you go pre-cisco live, I
think this was spot on, andpre-cisco live I would still say
meters way further to the rightand cisco's way further to the
left.
But that's just what I'mthinking now.
The other thing I want to talkabout is and I blame I Mr Finney
for this is all of the jibberjabber.
(17:06):
You can see who I'm looking athere.
Let's jump onto my LinkedIn.
I love to share my LinkedInCause.
Then people are like I saw thatyou had searched for this.
Look at this, we're gonna havesome fun with this one.
This is what happens.
You get online and you starttalking smack and then I call
you out and I I put your uh, Iput your post front and center
on the screen for the wholeworld of the wireless nerds to
watch.
So this is interesting, man,since no one else is talking
(17:29):
about it or maybe just read itwrong, this is taking a
direction of being its owncompany.
So what this is talking about.
This is a very eye-catchinggraphic.
Ten points to you, sir.
An extra three internets foryou for having a graphic that
got people a little shook.
What does this mean?
Oh, before I get into that, Iwant you to know that you called
(17:50):
out RIP Air Magnet down here.
There was a productannouncement today about the new
, updated version of Air Magnet.
So if you don't know what'sgoing on, go check out NetAlly
Air Magnet and take a look atwhat they're doing, because it's
funny that you said Air Magnetis a dead product at this point
and they just made a.
They just had a release on that.
So, anyway, just for whatthat's worth.
(18:11):
So let's go back and talk aboutthe matter at hand.
The matter at hand is that theDOJ came out and they said that
that the merger was good to go.
That missed.
I'm sorry that Juniper and HPEcould merge as long as they did
a couple of different things.
And let's go ahead and let's dothe magic screen share thing
here.
Let's look at Reuters.
Right, there's a good one.
They say, yep, $14 billiontakeover is great, except
(18:34):
there's a couple of things thatthey have to do.
Right, the cell phone requiresa combined company to divest an
advertisement for a streamingtool.
The cell phone requires acombined company to divest hpe's
instant on wireless networkingbusiness.
Okay, so that's number one.
So what does that mean?
That means that their instanton product that has been their,
their uh basic entry levelproduct let's take a look at.
(18:56):
Let's just google instant onreal quick.
This was their small businessuh stuff, it's quick and easy to
set up.
It was it was meant to handlejust small business stuff.
It's quick and easy to set up.
It was meant to handle justsmall business without having
all the complexity that goesbehind Aruba Central and
controller-based applicationsand all that.
It runs across an app, butstill from a price point, still
(19:18):
not a low price point, butsomething that was simple.
So they're saying, okay, yougot to dump Instant On, that's
number one.
And after you dump instant on,the second thing you have to do
license the source code forJuniper's Mist AI software using
in Juniper's WLAN products.
Okay.
So I read that and I was likeI'm not really sure what that
(19:40):
means.
I wonder if anyone's gone outand done the research.
Okay, well, it turns out helloInternet On the Internet.
Now it says that part of this isthem going off and offering
they have to auction off toparties that can take advantage
of it.
They have to auction off themissed AI software.
(20:03):
So here it is right.
Aiops for missed bidders meansthe companies that participate
in AIOps.
Defendants is those people.
Hp is this group, juniper is adefendant.
Aiops for missed license meanswhere is it the bidder, bidders
that meet the required criteriafor missed AIOps?
Source code auction to whichdefendants license the AIOps for
missed source code license.
(20:24):
Aiops for missed source codemeans a source code, and so the
idea here is that they have to.
There's the stuff about.
I didn't even see the rest ofthis Divestiture personnel.
Oh no, all right, jonathan'sgoing to explain this.
One man, I just got to figureout how to get you on this thing
.
Hp gets to keep missed AI.
Man, I just got to figure outhow to get you on this thing.
Hp gets to keep missed AI.
But it also means that acompetitor not named Cisco they
(20:44):
hold too much market share canabsolutely take the missed AI
and run with it.
Speculative conversation coming.
Either someone like Xtreme oreven a private private equity
baked with enough capital withBob Friday, gets to take his
toys and create Miss 2.0,although they wouldn't be
legally allowed to call it Miss2.0 through the DOJ approved
auction process, which HP haszero say in who gets it.
(21:05):
So they have to license thisstuff off, they've got to go and
they've got to make itavailable to someone who can use
it and say, okay, you've got,you have the ability to use this
and you have the ability to ownlicense.
And then now they will own thelicense and it will be licensed
to HPE, but meaning it couldalso be licensed to other people
.
So like, let's say thatJonathan Finley decides that
(21:27):
he's going to use that, he'sgoing to go bid on this and he's
going to buy it.
He's going to license it backto HPE, but he can also license
it to other groups.
So the question is is whoeveracquires this, are they going to
license it to HPE only orJuniper only?
Are they going to license it toeveryone?
Are they going to not licenseit?
(21:48):
I don't know.
There's a lot to go in here.
Also, to note, they cannot bakeMyst AI into Aruba Central or
Green Lake.
So Aruba Central and Green Lakecannot have it integrated into
it.
That's stipulated in here.
And it must also provideupdates they make to the missed
AI with the winning bidder.
So it looks like it still getsto go at 100%.
They must provide support andall updates to the source code
(22:09):
they do.
So this is someone who's goingto be set up where, when they
win it, it's money in the bank,right?
This is someone who's got thecapital, who's got the drive,
who's got the knowledge.
Who wants to purchase this?
And that company is going tohave a baked-in client.
Am I reading that right?
They're going to just be ableto license it directly to HP as
(22:29):
part of this deal, but it can'tbe owned by HP and it can't be
Cisco that owns it.
So, private equity, eat yourheart out.
You know, all the chips aregoing to fall right and we're
going to see who bids on thisand we're going to see who bids
on this.
We're going to see who wins andwe're going to see how that
plays into.
Who started this whole hoopla inthe first place?
I guess, um, this is a.
This is a fascinating turn ofevents.
(22:51):
But will it launch miss 2.0?
Is bob gonna leave juniper andgo start his own miss 2.0 and
license his own is?
Does he get?
Does he get his baby back andhe gets a license as baby?
Oh, bob, you know it's funny.
I was walking through, I waswalking through the national
retail Federation show and I saw, uh, and dude, listen, if
(23:13):
you're listening to this, youprobably know me and you
probably know the same peoplethat I do, and it's always fun
to run into the people that wedo.
If you don't know me and youdon't actually personally know
me or a lot of these people Italk about I'm not talking about
them like these aren't thecelebrities.
Bob's kind of a celebrity, Iguess.
But, dude, when you run intohim it's hilarious, because I'm
walking on the show floor andthere's Bob eating a hot dog and
(23:35):
I look at Bob and go, bob, whatare you doing here?
He goes Drew, what are youdoing here?
And it was a fun littleconversation and I asked him.
I said what's next?
Like, are you going to stickaround?
He says, man, I got like thisis going to be great.
I have no idea what's comingnext, I have no idea what to
expect from this, and so I'msure Bob's just sitting back
having a good old time with that.
So kudos to him for everythingthat he did.
(24:10):
But let's see where time framein this.
Was there a time frame,jonathan?
Did you see a time framementioned anywhere in here?
Um maintain the sites ofrevenue 2024 2025.
Defendants must maintainworking conditions, staffing
levels and workforce trainingexpertise of all relevant hp
diversiture personnel.
Relevant hp diversiturepersonnel must not be
transferred or assigned exceptto the acquirer or if initiated
by the employee personuant to HP.
I mean, there's someinteresting stipulations in this
.
Defendants must maintain alllicenses, permits, approvals,
authorizations andcertifications related or
(24:31):
necessary for the operation ofthe HP divestiture assets and
must operate in compliance withlaw.
This is, I mean, this is kindof interesting.
Anyway, if you're as much of anerd as we are flipping back
over here so you can see allthis, then I'm curious what you
think is going to happen withthis and and how this is going
(24:52):
to shake up, because a lot ofpeople have said have said
pretty much the same thing.
If you look at it, it's a lotof people saying, hey, man, I
thought the whole reason thatthey bought this was to get
their hands on on missed AI, youknow?
And now that you can't do that,now what?
Let's see what the most recentcomments are there.
(25:12):
Missed 2.0.
Where does it go from here?
A good discussion point.
What if HP truly won the missedpart?
Or the acquisition was all aboutJuniper and the data center?
I don't know.
Do you think it was about the,the data center?
I mean, I really I love whathpe has put together with aruba
and with, with raza and withcape and with you know
(25:33):
everything that they, that theystacked up.
They've got this great littlebox of toys right that we're all
supposed to magically worktogether and I really did think
that, with this acquisition,that mist was going to be the
magic sauce that tied them alltogether.
Well, now, you can't bake itinto central, you can't run it
on green lake.
It's got to be this third partyservice with these hooks that
(25:54):
tie everything together.
Is it going to be the magicsauce?
You know, I talk about thenacho effect or the, the botana
effects.
In south texas we have thesethings called botanas, and if
you haven't heard me use thisexample, let me try, uh, let me
try and bring up an image of abotana.
A botana is like, it's likenachos man and what they.
(26:15):
What they do in a botanaplatter is they stack all the
meats, uh, and they stack allthe meats and they stack all the
food right on top of each other.
So look, here's a screenshotfrom Texas Monthly.
So right there in the middle,you've got the quesadillas,
you've got chicken fajitas, beeffajitas, you've got all the
peppers, you've got jalapenos,you've got tomatoes and cheese
(26:35):
and beans and all this stuff,right, and what they do is they
line chips all on the bottom ofit, man, and those chips have
melted cheese and frijoles onthem and they've got beans on
them and they're set up and thenthey load all the stuff on
there like all the goodness, andthe botana is like this platter
, that's like everybody.
It's like a buffet on a platter, man, and with botanas.
(26:59):
Some of the best parts of thebotana are at the very bottom,
and at the bottom you can pulloff a chip and my daughter and I
will go on nacho datessometimes my oldest daughter and
it's like when you pull off thechip, you want the chip that
has all of the things on itright?
It's the perfect mixture of allof the grease and the cheese
and the food and the meat andthe salt and the pepper, and
it's a perfect chip.
And me I think about, I thinkabout hp as all of the
(27:25):
ingredients for a botana, right,they've got the quesadillas and
they've got the, the nachos andthe chips and the you know, the
beans and the meat and all thethings, all the onions and all
the goodness, but there's neverbeen.
They're all individual, they'reall individualized, right, they
have all these different thingsand there's no magic chip, like
there's no layer of tortillachips on the bottom that's
(27:46):
collecting all the goodness andso that like there's that piece
that's missing from it, thatcomponent, and I'm hungry.
But also that's what I thoughtMist was going to bring to this.
It was going to be those magic,that magic layer of nacho chips
on the bottom that captured allof the goodness and it was
going to be like the HPE botanaand to learn what's going on.
(28:07):
It's like man, that's kind oflike I don't know if it's going
to be there.
Okay, so back to what Jake wassaying.
Not Jake, jonathan has somegood stuff.
Jake was saying data centerservice for our real firewall.
Yep, absolutely get that.
Jonathan's saying this might besome fire, but, yes, gpt helps.
But I decided to throw Bob'spost in the GPT and I asked it
(28:29):
let's go for full forensiclinguistic strategic analysis on
a Bob Friday post.
Here's a detailed breakdown oftone where this is so good.
I hope y'all are on LinkedInreading these comments, man,
because this is so awesome.
Bob Friday's post is amasterclass in subtle narrative
control.
Gpt says he asserts ownershipof misintellectual property, he
defends its integrity againstcommodization, he intentionally
(28:51):
avoids signaling alignment withHP and he celebrates the present
while carefully avoidingcommitments to the future.
This is not a victory lap.
It's a prelude to a potentialreemergence.
Okay, so if you feed theLinkedIn post into GPT, that's
what it tells you.
Oh my God, dude, that ishilarious.
Um, you never know what's goingto happen, man, it's going to
(29:13):
be, it's going to be fascinatingeither way to to understand
what's going on with all this.
But, oh boy, all right.
Well, listen, that was 30minutes of fun.
I appreciate everyone with theback and forth on on linkedin
and on youtube.
I just want to talk about thosethings real quick, just because
the magic quadrant's out andyou know, and it goes hand in
hand with what's happening withthis deal.
(29:33):
You know I don't have a dog inthe race on either one of them,
but I do love to see innovationand things happening in the
wireless space and things likethis always spark interest and
to get people excited abouttechnology and where it is.
So the big question is you knowwhen's Wi-Fi 8 coming out?
No, I don't know.
Is 5G going to take over Wi-Fi?
No, it's not.
Oh my God.
And I'm getting some heat.
Speaking of heat, I'm gettingsome heat for that post where I
(29:57):
called Private 5G.
I made it akin to a cell phoneholster.
Some people did not like that.
They got a little offended, butit also sparked some good
conversation.
Anyway, I'll probably be backonline tomorrow and I'll talk
about the news and do therundown and all that other stuff
.
But I figured at least thiswould be fun for a conversation.
Plus, if I get a thousand morelisten hours, I can monetize on
YouTube.
And I want to check out mylights on the camera to see if
(30:19):
this switching camera washelpful.
It's going to be an interestingto see what happens and comes
up.
Biggest news of the year yeah,it's definitely it's worth
spending some time chit-chattingabout.
I agree with that.
If you want to follow up what'sgoing on, go find Jonathan
Finney online on LinkedIn.
Go find me on LinkedIn, keep upwith us on all the social
medias and whatnot.
But for now I'm going to letyou guys go.
(30:47):
I'm going to go find somenachos and see if I can make a
botana of my own.
I will talk to you all thisweek again, right before July
4th, we'll have another episodeof the waves podcast and then,
um, next week if I can figureout how to, how to do that from
the road I will be out of townnext week in another country
that I've never been to andthere are waves there, so maybe
it'll be some, uh, some, somewaves from a different, a
different equatorial part of theworld.
Anyway, hope y'all have awonderful evening.
Thanks for listening always funto chit chat.
(31:09):
I appreciate you guys see.
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