Luke Storey on Overcoming Addiction, How Corporations are Profiting from our Sickness & EMF Dangers #29

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
So starting off, what do you do and why do you do it?
I do my best to inspire and educate people about all the
ways to have a more fulfilling, enlightened life.
And I do that because there havebeen many times in my life where

(00:21):
I felt less than free, less thanvital, less than alive, and, and
also many times during which I experienced a lot of suffering
and discontent. And so I think overall, I'm just

(00:42):
compelled to share solutions when I find them.
I'm just someone who's been actively seeking truth
throughout my life. And when I find a truth and
apply it and it has a meaningfulimpact on my life, I feel driven
to share that knowledge with other people.

(01:04):
And so essentially that's what I've been doing for 27 years and
over the past eight years have done so in a more professional
capacity beyond just friends andfamily and things like that.
So yeah, I would say I I aggregate principles, universal

(01:24):
laws that I find to be useful, and I share those with other
people who care to use them too.Where did that journey start of
wanting to to find truth? Because I know I had a moment
where it was actually Elle, ElleMcPherson.
She sent me this book and it wasthe five minute gratitude
journal. And I started that and I started

(01:46):
thinking about gratitude. And then that led me to reading
books and it just inspired me onthis journey of seeking after
wisdom and enlightenment. And then once I had gathered
enough for myself, it was kind of overflowing.
And I was like, I don't want to waste this overflow.
So that's why I I started this podcast and that was kind of my

(02:06):
outlet of sending it out into the world.
So what was your your start? Very similar.
I think even as a kid, I'm just doing my best to kind of go way
back in the way back machine. I think just growing up in
public school and never really fitting into that mode of

(02:33):
learning and feeling so uncomfortable and restless and
feeling like such an outsider, not just of the system, but of
the kind of predominant culture in the small, various small
towns where I grew up. There.

(02:55):
There just always seemed to me as a kid that there was
something missing in terms of the information I was being
given about the nature of the world and reality and what our
society values. And the things that were being
taught in school that I didn't have interest in or proclivity

(03:17):
toward and was always kind of a round peg trying to fit myself
into a square hole. And that was, I think, just the
fundamental yearning I had for something bigger than what was
being offered. And then in a more dramatic way,

(03:38):
when I was a kid, I experienced a lot of trauma and abuse and
things like that just by the nature of the family system into
which I was born, which now I see as, you know, one of my
greatest gifts, of course, because I've been able to
transmute so much of that into my own growth.
But the path that I chose to deal with all of that discontent

(04:01):
was drug abuse and addiction. And that started for me quite
young and elementary school intomiddle school.
And by the time I was in in highschool, I it got so bad that I
got sent away to a reform schoolin Idaho, like a wilderness
school. And that was the first, that was

(04:23):
a two year period. And that was the first time in
my life from 14 to 16, which would have been 1984 to 86.
Long time ago for you and some of your listeners.
Yeah, you can imagine way back in the day.
It's funny though, you know, it's like I'm 53 now.
I'll be 54 this year. And when I think about the 80s,
I think that's about 20 years ago.

(04:45):
You know, it's still like, it's still 20 years ago to me for
some reason. But anyway, I got sent to this
school and that was the first time in my life that I ever
really met any adults that I could trust, that I feel really
cared for me. And that would also be honest
with me and were contextualizinglife and education in the world

(05:06):
in a way that rang true to me inmy intuition and also helped me
to overcome a lot of the behavioral issues and mental
health issues and things like that that I was dealing with.
So that would have been the impetus to really start my
awakening then. But when I left that school and

(05:27):
came back into the public schoolmodel that I had had so many
difficulties with, it kind of started the cycle all over
again. And I, I didn't know how to
relate to kids who hadn't had all of this psychological
training and therapy and all these things that took place at
this kind of, it was back then, they used to call it the
troubled teen industry. And I, I guess it still exists.

(05:50):
I've seen a couple documentary, you know, TV series about this
industry and it's rife with problems.
Some of these schools are problematic for a number of
different reasons. They are sometimes abusive to
the kids and many of them, including mine, had a very kind
of cult ecosystem to it. So when I came out of that

(06:12):
school, quotes for those watching the video, because
there was really no academic training curriculum at that
school. It was all behavioral.
So I had this period in which I was able to address some of the
things I experienced in childhood and obviously got a
bit of an understanding about the nature of my addiction and

(06:34):
how that was causing me so many problems, etcetera.
But when I got out, I didn't know how to fit in.
And so I had a two year glimpse of, of the truth of just
understanding my psyche and my my motivation and some of the
things that were my core issues that were causing me all these
problems. But I came out and sort of fell
back into the, yeah, the problems that I had in school

(07:00):
and, and then entering back intothe system that still didn't
make sense to me and I couldn't make sense of it.
And so that led to a 10 year descent into the fiery hell of
addiction again for a second time.
And, and then when I was 26, that's, that was 27 years ago.
And that's when my real journey of healing began because I was

(07:21):
able to get sober and have been so ever since.
And then I started to really experience some level of freedom
and peace within and, you know, started to learn how to meditate
and doing yoga and taking care of my body physically and

(07:43):
detoxing and getting into supplements and herbs and just
all forms of healing on the planet.
And like you, once I started to kind of discover some of these
truths about myself and around spirituality and just what makes
people tick and what leads to suffering and what leads to

(08:05):
peace, I started to be compelledto share that information with
other people. And so it's, you know, I think
as many of us go through a pain to purpose sort of story, right?
You you go through challenges inlife.
And I think if you're someone who's a kind hearted, benevolent

(08:25):
person, as I have always been, even when I was a kid and all
these problems, I was still always loving and cared about
people. And I just didn't have the
ability to really actuate that into my behavior in my
relationships because there was so much internal turmoil and

(08:45):
pain still festering. And once that started to become
healed, even in the early days of my addiction recovery, I
realized that I could actually be of service to people and be
useful, even though in the beginning I didn't have a lot to
offer. I had more to offer than someone
who was even newer than I was totheir path of healing.

(09:07):
And, and I found so much and still do so much satisfaction in
that as someone who had LED a life that was very much in based
on survival and selfishness and just self protection and just
trying to find a way to cope with being a kid and dealing
with these demons in my closet of the abuse that I went through

(09:29):
and all that. It was the first time I started
to become free. And I thought, wow, if I put AB
and C together and I'm starting to become more free and I'm able
to smile and be a functional member of society and kind of
find my niche in the world and feel like I fit in somewhere,
you know, maybe it's possible for other people to feel that

(09:49):
too. Going through addiction and now
overcoming it and being on the other side of that, what advice
would you give to people around my age in my generation who
either are considering experimenting with drugs or
alcohol, or maybe that they already have and they feel

(10:11):
trapped? Yeah, I, I can remember that
whole trajectory of escalation. So clearly, you know, for me, I
think just because the things that I went through as a kid and
where I happened to be situated geographically when I was

(10:32):
growing up, as I said in elementary school, middle
school, there were just a lot ofdrugs in my environment.
So they were easy to get to. And culturally it was, I grew up
in the Bay Area. And so this is, you know, I grew
up in the 70s, basically after the Haight Ashbury 60s hippie
movement had sort of imploded. And a lot of those people

(10:55):
migrated up into the areas northof San Francisco, which is where
I grew up. And so there were just a lot of
drugs around. So for me, it was never a moral
issue. I, I didn't think that it was
wrong because it was so prevalent.
And I, and I think that's true, you know, probably for people
your age now, right? Because, you know, cannabis is

(11:16):
legal and acceptable in many places.
And I'm sure there are more drugs available to younger
people now than there even were in the 70s and 80s, right?
I mean, it's like time has sort of speed up.
And as a society, especially in America, our value system, I
would say has even degraded evenmore than it was when I was a

(11:39):
kid. So my advice would be certainly
not from any place of morality that ingesting a certain
substance is is right or wrong. It's a matter of whether or not
it's right or wrong for each individual.
So for me in my life now, for example, I choose to not drink

(11:59):
alcohol and have chosen so for many years, Not because I think
there's anything inherently wrong with alcohol or wrong with
drinking alcohol or getting drunk, but it's just that the
consequences it has on my life aren't worth the benefit that I
might get out of it. Right?
Of going to a party and feeling a little more comfortable in my
skin and being able to be socialor ask a girl out on a date or,

(12:24):
or just to have fun, just to feel free and cut loose or, you
know, smoking, smoking weed. For me as a kid, we used to have
these things called a Walkman, which is like a little cassette
player and you put on headphonesand man, I would just, you know,
I'd listen to Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath and ride my
skateboard and be really high. And I just felt so free.

(12:46):
And so I would never tell a young person that it's that it's
morally wrong to have that experience because some of those
experiences are also things thatopened me up to a deeper and
greater understanding of, of theworld, right?
I mean, when you're laying in the middle of a field, you're 14
years old and you're high as hell on weed, it it's expands

(13:09):
your consciousness and there arethings that you start to think
about and feel and ways that youexpress yourself that can be
quite positive. So the way that I kind of look
at anything now in my life, because I do periodically work
in a very intentional way with psychedelics, which some people
would consider drugs and they would consider something like

(13:30):
psilocybin mushrooms the same thing as cocaine or something.
To me, there's a very a very different experience and very
different relationship with different substances.
But to answer your question in amore succinct way, I would ask
myself if my habits or behaviorsor even potential or
full-fledged addictions are causing me and my life more harm

(13:54):
than the benefit I'm getting from them.
It might be time to take an honest look at that.
So for example, you know, I, I would say if I'm really honest,
oh, here we go, put this in camera.
I chew these little nicotine lozenges all day every day.

(14:14):
And if I'm really honest with myself, I would say I'm addicted
to nicotine. OK, I'm not proud of that.
I'm not ashamed of that. But if I'm honest, that is a
reality in my life right now. I'm still at that point where
the mental alertness and focus and just kind of the, I don't

(14:36):
know, oral fixation, whatever itis about just like constantly.
It's like if somebody chews gum because they're nervous or
something, they get some benefitfrom chewing gum, right?
Yeah, it's something to do with your hands.
It's just like one of those things that you habituate to.
So even though I feel like the relationship I have with that
particular substance, nicotine is on the addictive side of the

(15:00):
Ledger because I don't feel likeI can choose when I do it.
And when I don't do it, I do it compulsively and automatically.
I wake up in the morning, I put one of those things in.
And so I don't feel great about that.
But the reason I haven't stoppedis because the benefit that I
get from using that nicotine as kind of a nootropic performance

(15:21):
enhancer, focus, etcetera, is still greater than the
consequences that I might experience as a result of just
not feeling good about the fact that I do it more than I would
like to. You see what I mean?
So it's like it's not a matter of right or wrong with using
substances, whether you're younger or older.
It's a matter of whether or not it's right or wrong for you

(15:43):
right now at this point in your life.
And so I would say the first thing is developing some honesty
with yourself about how deep youare into something, right?
Are you just experimenting? You go to a party, you smoke a
little weed, maybe you have a couple beers.
You don't tell your parents. You don't want them to know.

(16:04):
You'd probably get in trouble, but you still have it under
control. If your parents are of a of a
cultural sort of standing where they would not understand that
or that would be terrifying. I think in some cases the
communication might not be open and safe enough for a younger

(16:24):
person to share that with their parents.
But if somebody's kind of veering into the problematic
range of using any substance, ifyou can't talk to your parents
about it, I think it's really important to have even a close
friend or a mentor or someone that you can go to where you can

(16:45):
share the experience as you're moving through it with someone
who's not going to be judgmentalor condemn you or try and get
you in trouble. But just so you're not the only
one sitting with that secret, right?
Because as in the realm of addiction, when your behavior is
out in the open, you know what you're doing, other people that

(17:08):
care about you know what you're doing.
And so the slippery slope is a lot slower because everything's
kind of out in the open. Whereas when you get into the
realm of legitimate addiction, especially if you're younger and
you're still living with your parents, etcetera, the secrecy
is what starts to actually make you mentally and emotionally

(17:33):
more uncomfortable. And then that has the potential
to compel you to do even more drugs or to drink even more,
because now you feel ashamed that you're doing it.
You have no one to talk to aboutit.
You don't like feeling the shame.
So what do you do? You reach for the substance
again and you do more of it. And so it's really, it's really
a vicious cycle. So there's kind of the pre

(17:55):
addiction, starting to dabble, experiment, which is totally
normal, I think, especially nowadays.
Then there's the, I don't know, this might be a problem.
I don't have anyone to talk to about it.
My parents wouldn't understand. So I'm just going to keep it
inside and start lying and get in, keeping it secret.
And then there's the third stage, which is where you even

(18:18):
know yourself that you're full blown addicted to whatever it is
that you're using and that you can't stop.
And now your whole life starts to become alive because you have
to lie to cover up for your lies, to cover up for those
lies, to cover up for those lies.
And next thing you know, you start feeling very isolated and
alone because there's no one that truly knows you because
you're keeping all of those behaviors secret so you don't

(18:41):
get in trouble. Or that's especially if you're
really an addict. You don't want anyone to
interrupt yourself soothing, right?
That's the way you're coping with being in school or problems
that you have in relationships or whatever it is.
You know, your job sucks, you work at the mall, you hate it,
you're frustrated, so you get high after work just like defuse
that stress, whatever it is, right?

(19:02):
It's like when you're in the realm of addiction, it's very
isolating and the isolation and loneliness that it creates makes
it for many of us. This was the case for me, just
impossible to even think about quitting because that's the only
thing that's kind of holding youtogether.
You know, I used to feel like when I even when I was like, I

(19:23):
mean, they say cannabis isn't addictive, but for me it was
very psychologically addictive. I mean, I would like have panic
attacks, temp, temper tantrums. I would do anything to make sure
that I was high all day long every day when I was a teenager
and even before as a teenager. And so because I had to hide it

(19:44):
from my parents and teachers andpolice and all that, then it was
just me alone with that addiction.
And even if I had needed help orfelt like, wow, I'm, you know,
this is becoming a problem or I'm starting to do other drugs
that are potentially dangerous, way more illegal.
You can get a lot more trouble for doing them.
I wasn't going to go tell my parents, Hey, by the way, I've

(20:06):
been like doing a bit of coke, you know, at school.
There's some in my locker. It's like, what am I going to do
with that? Right?
So that the secrecy and the deceit and the lying seems like.
You know, when we're doing it, it seems like we're doing it to
protect ourselves, right? Because we just want to do our
thing. My parents don't understand,

(20:27):
teachers don't understand. Maybe they send me to a
therapist because I'm having problems.
The therapist doesn't understand.
So I'm just not going to tell anyone what's going on inside.
And, and, and that can lead to areally dangerous place because
when you're alone and you feel alone, it's, it's really
painful. And, and if the only way you

(20:48):
know how to cope with pain is bytaking more drugs, which was the
case for me, it becomes really, really problematic.
And the, the last thing I'll say, because it's, I mean, it's
like a topic I could talk about for 20 hours straight.
And I want you to get to your other questions, presuming you
have them, is that when you're when you've truly crossed the

(21:12):
line into clinical addiction. And again, all this is my
personal experience. I'm not a trained therapist or
drug counselor. So everything I say is just my
own belief based on my own innerknowing and my own life
experience, which in this category is quite extensive, for
better for worse. But what I found for me, I'll

(21:34):
just say it this way, is when I was, you know, in my 20s, I was
living in Hollywood and playing in rock'n'roll bands and having
a great time for a couple years.I mean, it's fun.
I had a fake ID when I moved there.
I was 19. I mean, I was living the dream,
right? But it slowly morphed into a
nightmare as I got deeper and deeper into addiction.

(21:54):
And what I found to be true, andkind of how I would classify
true addiction, is when you realize fully that you're
trapped and you can't get out, and you start trying to
moderate, modulate, stop using certain substances or stop using

(22:18):
them all. And you cannot stop on your own
volition. Your own free will isn't strong
enough to do the job. That's when we have a real
problem. And for me, what was necessary
was to seek outside help. There was just no way.
You know, by this time, my parents knew because I was, you
know, I'm in my 20s. I left home.

(22:39):
I'm, you know, I can never pay my rent.
It's very obvious that I'm a, a total basket case.
You know, just a lot of, lot of problems with the authorities
and all kinds of things, right? So I knew I had a problem.
I knew I wanted out, but I also knew that I couldn't do it
because every time I tried, I would fail.
I would make it a few hours and next thing you know, like I'm

(23:02):
drinking again or doing drugs again and just going, God, I was
like, I woke up today so committed.
Today's the day, you know, I'm going to change my life and turn
it around and get a job and, youknow, grow up and pay my bills
and do all those things. And I literally could not do it.
I was just constitutionally incapable of that.
And so the huge turning point for me was when I finally

(23:25):
surrendered, you know, I finallyjust said, wow, I, I can't do
this on my own. And I, I remember I called my
mom one day and thankfully she had enough understanding of
addiction and things like this and, you know, knew what rehabs
were and all this kind of stuff.And I called her and said, man,
I, you know, I don't know what to do here, but I can't do this
one more day. I, I just can't, It's, it's

(23:48):
killing me. I was just so, Oh my God, so
miserable, man. It's I can't even describe the
level of pain that I was in. And I couldn't, I couldn't get
out of it. So she set up, you know, a date
to enter a treatment center a couple days later and I'm on a
plane. And, you know, I'm so grateful
always to my mom. And, you know, I think when

(24:08):
you're younger, like you aren't some of your listeners,
sometimes we view our parents asadversaries.
It's sort of part of just growing up.
I think nature designs us to kind of push away from our
parents and just, you know, be annoyed by them and think they
don't understand. And, you know, we might have
disagreements or arguments with them and maybe we even run away

(24:28):
from home because our parents suck.
And, and some parents do suck. Parents that haven't healed
their own stuff and are still dysfunctional and might have
their own addictions and might be violent or abusive.
So I'm not saying by any means that all parents are deserving
of our company and our relationships if they're if
they're unkind to us, but just the general like feeling we get

(24:52):
like all my parents wouldn't understand.
Well, my mom proved me wrong. I called her and she didn't
shame me, you know, she didn't berate me or criticize me or
anything. She just said don't move.
I'm on the case. Book me a plane ticket next
thing. And I'm in a treatment center.
And for me, because I was not just someone that was
experimenting with drugs here and there and kind of like

(25:15):
getting a little sloppy, I was really, really addicted to some
very strong drugs. And so for me, it was getting
that outside help and being in an environment with people who
truly understood me. And when I was with people that
truly understood me, which is other former addicts and the
counselors and even the other patients, you know, that were in

(25:36):
the treatment center, because they understood me, I could be
honest with them and I could be vulnerable.
And I could just let all of those years of lying and
deception and all of the hiding and pretending and all of that
just sort of dissolve them. When I could be real and be
honest with those people, because again, I felt that they
understood me and I understood them then that sort of allowed

(25:59):
for not sort of in a very pronounced and finite way,
allowed for the exploration of spirituality.
And I, I mean, there's no other way to say it.
It sounds kind of corny. And especially just young, young
people. If I would have heard this when
I was 17, I'd be like, this guy's lame.
But I started to pray for the first time in my life because

(26:20):
that's literally the only choiceI had.
And I didn't grow up with religion, spirituality.
That was not part of my childhood at all.
My parents were just secular people.
Atheists maybe, Well, maybe not atheists.
That's a little strong. Agnostics, you know, just it was
just not talked about. Nobody went to church.
It was just not a thing. And I still, I'm not a religious
person per SE, but but I'm very devoted to God because of what

(26:43):
God did for me. That's really the only
explanation I have as to why I'mnot in jail or dead is just I
reached a point where I realizedI could not help myself.
I asked my mom to help me. She put me in a place where
there were a bunch of other people that loved me and
understood me. They helped me.

(27:03):
And what those people told me was the only way out of this is
through a spiritual way of life,you know, of learning how to
meditate and pray. And that there's there's a power
in the universe that is more powerful than you by yourself.
And if you align yourself with that power and avail yourself

(27:24):
and ask for help, that this thing that created you really
loves you and is just waiting for you to kind of come home and
say, hey, here I am. And once I did that, I, the very
day that I prayed the first time, Solomon's crazy dude, I'd
love telling this story because it's just, I still can't even
believe it worked. The second day in rehab, I woke

(27:47):
up and I was in bad shape. My friend.
I was, I was hurting for certainand I got up and I didn't have
anything to do but pray. So I started to pray.
I just said, God help me. I don't want to be an addict
anymore. I want to be sober.
Just help me, help me, help me, help me, help me.
And from that day until this day, sitting here talking to
you, I've never once had a craving or had any crazy ideas

(28:10):
that, you know, maybe I could just have a couple beers or I
can just smoke a little weed. It'll be all right.
You know, the kind of rationalization that used to get
me into trouble before. I just never had those kind of
crazy thoughts. There's like a sanity and an
understanding in my mind that has been restored where I just
know I'm the type of person thatjust can't, can't take that

(28:33):
risk. And so I don't.
But more importantly, I don't even have the desire to take
that risk. It's not like I'm sitting here
biting my nails going, I wish I had a drink or I wish I could
just do bong rips all day like Iused to.
It's like I just, it's, it's like a non issue.
I'm in a position of neutrality,right?
Where it's just like, it's just not something I think about.

(28:53):
And that's something I care about.
And I've had to, of course, do alot of work over the, the many
years to make sure that I keep that protective veil activated
through my, you know, my spiritual life.
But that that would be, you know, a very long winded
explanation of kind of the different degrees and the
different stages of addiction and what might what one might do

(29:16):
to kind of deal with it along the way.
Yeah #1 your story is amazing and inspiring.
There were a couple things that stood out to me that I loved.
How you put it is you didn't sayit was like abstinence and it
was this thing is bad. And I need to like when you were
talking about the Lucy's like you were like, this is a thing

(29:38):
and it's just kind of cost benefit analysis.
You're just saying, is this thing going to be beneficial to
my life? And then what are the cons of
it? Are there cons and, and just
weighing that out. And then also the shame.
I, I love when you talked about the shame because I think so
much people have shame, whether it's substance addiction or it's

(29:59):
pornography or it's whatever Thething is that makes them feel
like they are trapped. They have so much shame around
it and having the courage to step out and to say, I need help
and raise your hand. That's I mean for me, when I
struggled with different addictions, even with like

(30:19):
stupid things like I, I, I just would constantly make things
about me. It was a selfish addiction.
I just wanted to feel selfish and being like I am selfish and
admitting that and, and just saying that it was like, it was
things that you, you feel like are so big in the dark, but once
the light shines on them, they're not as big.

(30:40):
And also, once you, we, we weren't made to do this alone.
And in Genesis, man was lonely. God made Eve for, for Adam.
We weren't supposed to do this alone.
We were supposed to have someonewith us to help us through it.
And part of it was God for you. And I would say that that's the
same thing for me. It's having that that
supernatural, but also part of it is just having that that

(31:01):
person that steps alongside you who wants the best for you, who
wants you to grow and be the best that you can be.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, asking for help is also,
you know, we're always working on something, right?
That this is, this is something I've realized in, in my, my
elder years is that if you're someone who's driven toward

(31:24):
growth and expansion, which I am, and you clearly are as well,
sometimes it's difficult to see the progress we've made along
the way because we're looking onthe next thing we need to work
on, right? So I'll just preface it by that.
So sometimes I forget about the,the tons of coal that I've
already shoveled. I'm just looking at the little

(31:45):
pile in front of me. So something I've been working
on recently to the, to the pointof this topic is how difficult
it is still after all these years for me to ask for help.
Like, I'm really great at helping other people.
I enjoy my life so much more when I'm able to be of service
and be considerate and kind to other people to help people out.

(32:07):
I'm very generous. I love giving people stuff.
I just gave someone a bunch of furniture yesterday.
I could have sold it on Craigslist and I don't know.
Yeah, probably made a couple $1000.
And it's like this other person would benefit more from having
this stuff than I would from having a couple bucks, you know.
So just little things like that,sometimes big things, some like
little things, but so I'm reallygood at that.

(32:30):
But the receiving, asking for help in receiving is still
really difficult for me. And even to this day, I mean, I
had this experience yesterday. I was having a really tough day
for a number of reasons and the last thing I think of is like,

(32:51):
man, I should call a homie rightnow and just express my feelings
or I should sit down with my wife.
It's like my first response is to just go be by myself and just
kind of wallow in it or try to figure it out, you know what I
mean? So it I think anything, whether
it's like a hardcore addiction or just anything that you're

(33:11):
struggling with, man, just speaking it to life and getting
it out of the echo chamber between our two ears can be so
powerful. And the trick with that is, is
just building our our inner circle and cultivating those
relationships so that we have people that are safe to do that

(33:36):
with. 100%. Right.
And it's like, I know for for young people and this was
definitely the case for me. I mean, talking to my parents
about my issues was not an option That was not going to
happen because they had their own issues going on, right?
I think it's easier like your dad is, I don't know your mom
yet, but your dad is super conscious, awake guys, working

(33:57):
on himself. He's got a huge heart.
He's really smart. So I think, oh man, you know, if
he was my dad, I could have talked to him anytime, but that
wasn't my experience. I kind of had to go it alone.
And, you know, as I said, eventually I met counselors and
things like that and therapist that I could talk to, that I
with whom I felt safe and that also had some degree of wisdom

(34:18):
and life experience and expertise that could help me
overcome my problems. You know, but man, asking for
help for some of us is really hard.
It's like, there's a lot to it. I've looked at why that is.
Part of it is like a pride thing.
You know, I'm just like, Nope, I'm going to figure this out.
I'm just going to like put my nose to the grindstone and, and

(34:40):
get it done. Part of it is a shame thing, not
wanting to be vulnerable, to show people that you're not
perfect, that even you, the great, whoever you are, has
problems. It's a self worth thing
sometimes of feeling like I don't want to burden people
because who am I to give them more work to do You know what I

(35:04):
mean? It's like I don't want to.
I don't want to lay this on my wife or lay this on the homies.
It's like I don't want to botherthem.
I don't want to be a nuisance, that kind of thing.
When the the beautiful thing about asking for help is that
you're also enabling the other party the opportunity to express

(35:28):
their love and to give. In other words, like imagine a
world where nobody asked for help, then no one would have the
opportunity to give. And giving is like life's
greatest gift. So I've trained myself and not
perfectly, as I said, I still forget this, but when I'm
feeling like I want to ask someone for help, even it's like

(35:49):
asking a friend, Hey, will you come help me move this sofa or
whatever it is insignificant to the most meaningful.
I do my best to remember that I'm doing them a favor by asking
them to do me a favor because I'm allowing them to kind of
earn karmic merit points, right?I'm, I'm putting someone in a
position where they can help me.And ultimately that's also

(36:11):
helping them. Yeah.
Because they get to get out of themselves.
They might be going through something really difficult that
I, I don't even have any idea they're struggling with.
And they sit on the phone with me or we go to coffee and, you
know, I pour my heart out and just process some things I'm
working on. And probably much of the time
helps them get out of their problem because they're in kind

(36:33):
of a, you know, self pity or self absorbed rumination like I
am. And we both help each other get
out of it by just sharing, sharing our hearts and being
open and vulnerable and communicating on a deeper level
other than just, you know, do you see the game last night?
Oh, what about this TV show or whatever?
You know, like when you, when you get past the superficiality

(36:55):
of relationship and communication, there's some real
magic that can happen when you get, you know, two or more
people together with the goal ofhealing, understanding,
expressing themselves, working through difficult emotions,
overcoming different fallacious or erroneous ways of thinking,

(37:17):
you know, sometimes just gettingsomeone else's perspective.
It's like I'll have some crazy ass thoughts that seem very
real. Yeah.
And if I can run them by some, someone with some life
experience and wisdom, they can reflect back to me what parts of
my thought process or ideas I'm holding on to ring true or not.

(37:38):
And and sometimes that's difficult to do by yourself, but
you get someone else. Like, did you hear what you just
said? And I go, yeah, repeat it.
And I say it again, Oh my God, that's totally crazy.
I had no idea until someone elsesaid, dude, the thing you just
said sounds really nuts. I don't, I think that's your
mind playing tricks on you. And I'm like, Oh my God, I could
have gone on for the next month,bouncing these dumb ideas around

(38:01):
my head until somebody that I trust, you know, that's not
going to use that information against me or try to punish me
or manipulate me, right? I'm talking in the realm of like
functional healthy relationshipswhere that kind of communication
can be so beneficial because youcan, you can call each other out
on your bullshit to be to be frank about it.

(38:22):
So yeah, that's again a lesson I'm still learning, but it's so
important is to be able to ask for help and to be able to
receive when it's time for you to receive.
I I was the same way. I used to struggle with that.
And I think it the lesson reallygot taught to me young.
I have a specific guy, his name is Brandon.
He's my mentor. He's the best he got.

(38:45):
We met my first year of high school.
He was a youth pastor at our church and he saw something in
me and he, I mean, till till this day he's been just
developing me and really just pouring into me.
And even in the times when I hated God, he didn't shun me and
be like, oh, you're a lost cause.
He was there for me and seeing him do that to me has made.

(39:10):
And he was, you said inner circle.
He was one of the guys who was like, you need an inner circle.
You need to have people in your life who you one are pouring
into, but also who are pouring into you.
And sometimes it's reciprocal, sometimes it's not.
And you just have to kind of gauge that and feel that out.
But I think the importance of, of, yeah, pouring of, of pouring

(39:31):
out your spilling out your crap and being like, I'm, I'm mulling
over this and I'm freaking out right now.
Is is so valuable and important?Yeah.
Another thing I'd like to comment on is, you know,
religion and church and things like that.
And when I was a kid, I feel like, I mean, just Speaking of

(39:59):
Christian denomination churches.It was very much, it was old
school, you know, I mean, I remember being a kid and one
time I, I got sent to like a, a summer camp just like for fun,
right? And it was a Christian summer
camp. And this is in the 80s and I was
really into like heavy metal, you know, and in the 80s heavy

(40:20):
metal was, was demonized for being devil worshiper music and,
and all this kind of stuff. There was all this censorship.
They they in the 80s when they started putting the parental
warnings on records, you see them like on rap albums now, but
back then it was like heavy metal because they would say a
swear word or something. So anyway, it was like, and

(40:41):
there might have been other churches that were a little more
progressive, but I, the church that very little that I was
exposed to was like, if you listen to metal, you're going
to, when you die, you're going to live in hell for eternity and
be burned alive because it's a sin kind of thing, you know?
So there was a lot of scare tactics and fear and a lot of

(41:04):
judgement around sexuality and just, it was like very much
based on constructs of right andwrong and being a Sinner and
this kind of stuff. And over the past few years,
there have been a few times where I've gone to, back when I
was living in Lai, went maybe two or three times to churches

(41:25):
that were kind of these mega churches.
And they were, you know, there'slike a rock band playing and
there's mm, hmm, people of all different ages and races and
people are kind of dressed, sortof hip.
People have tattoos and you know, I'm sure there's people of
different sexual orientation andall kinds of stuff, right?
Where when I was young, at leastthe very little exposure I had

(41:47):
it, it didn't feel like a safe place.
It felt like a place where I wasgoing to be judged.
And the, the way God was talked about was like, it's like when I
hear people say the phrase, you know, I'm a God fearing man.
That always sounds weird to me, like fear God.
I don't want a God that I have to be afraid of.
I want a God that loves me, thatI can love, that can help me.

(42:10):
And I think there's a positive trend in Christianity now in
general where there's a more accepting kind of progressive
approach to the Bible and, and things like that.
That's super cool to look at Someone Like You that can, you
know, I'm assuming, you know, goto a church and have like a

(42:30):
youth pastor. And it's like not as restrictive
and judgmental and kind of dogmatic where you can go in and
actually enjoy the support in the community and worship in
your own unique way and not be beholden to such a rigid,
restrictive kind of culture, youknow?

(42:52):
So I think that's super cool. And I, the few times I have been
to church in the past few years has been really fun.
I'm like, whoa, if church was like this when I was a kid, it
probably could have really helped me.
But the couple times I went, it was just like, Oh my God, just
scary music. And just like just it was just
like creepy, you know, it's justlike your.
Your book and read it and yeah. It was like bad energy, you

(43:16):
know? For me, it was just like, this
feels like a horror movie. Am I?
Like I felt like I was on the set of The Exorcist or
something. It was just like creepy, you
know? And I'm sure that, like I said,
I'm sure there were because I only had a couple experiences.
I'm sure there were beautiful churches and congregations all
over the world. I just didn't happen to go to
them. So, you know, for, you know,
young people listening to, I would just encourage people to

(43:39):
be open minded about any kind ofwhether it's like a meditation
group or a breathwork class, A Christian Church, a mosque, A
synagogue, Hindu temple. I think it's really important to
find the value in the teachings of religions because all the

(44:03):
religions are essentially sayingthe same thing in a different
way in a different language, right?
If you boil them all down, I think they all kind of boil down
to the 10 commandments pretty much.
Yep. You know, so if you just take,
OK, there's some truth here, which if we all apply it to our
lives in our own unique and beautiful ways, it's going to

(44:24):
benefit each of our lives. But the community element is
really, really important. And I never had any of that as a
kid, but when I when I got sober, I immediately became very
committed to 12 step groups, 12 step meetings and did that for
22 years. And that was like my family,

(44:48):
that was my church. We're all people that are going
there for the sole purpose of helping ourselves for getting
closer to God in our own unique ways and to love on each other
and support each other. And there is no way on earth I
would have ever been able to stay sober or even have the
beautiful life that I have now if it wasn't for that community.

(45:08):
So I think it's just whether it's church or a group therapy
or anything where you're with people who all have the same
ultimate goal, right? There's like a, a principle,
there's a great book called Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon
Hill. It's a classic book from I think
from the 30s. And it's not even about being

(45:29):
rich financially per SE. It's just having a rich life.
And one of the things that he talks about a lot is the, he
outlines different principles, different fundamental truths.
And one of them is like the mastermind principle, right?
That's when you get 2 or more people in a room together that
are like, we're going over there, We're going in that
direction together and in uniqueways, but we're kind of all in

(45:51):
the same path here. And there's so much power in
that inertia in community. And that's something that's been
lost through the eons of our various civilizations wherein
anthropologically speaking, if you go back, you know, a few
thousand years, 1015 thousand years in hunter gatherer tribes,

(46:13):
we were 50 or 60 people that lived together our entire life
and travelled around together and went through trials and
tribulations. People got sick, people died,
babies were born, right? People cheated on each other and
got in trouble. And you know, I'm sure there was
all these little micro dramas just like we see in the
collective of our culture now. But there was a sense of being

(46:36):
of belonging, a sense of connection and a sense of
community that's really missing from modern life.
And I think, you know, organizations like different
churches and different groups ofpeople that are working on
themselves and and there to support one another is such a
massive missing link in our ability to cope with the

(47:00):
realities of life. Yeah.
And I think so much like when you talked about church and
religion and stuff, I think evenin my church, which is an
amazing church and it's filled with amazing people, I think
that there is in religion, it isabout for the most part, the
difference between like a spirituality, which I would say

(47:20):
I'm more aligned with than religion is it's like everyone
has to, it's the same rule book for everybody, but everyone's
different. Everyone is different.
Are you supposed to? Are you telling me that people
or everyone is supposed to be Christian?
Everyone from every place who thinks about things differently,
who are neurodivergent or neurotypical, who have different

(47:42):
autoimmune conditions, differentways that they think about
things, different ways that theywere grown up, different traumas
that they've experienced, that they're all supposed to
experience the same thing. I find that interesting.
And my dad has a thing that he tells me which God is God is a
diamond, and people will look atthe diamond.
They're all put in different places.

(48:02):
There's different ways that the light reflects through it.
When you look at a diamond, you see colors sometimes and you'll
maybe see a little yellow or a little blue or a little red and
whatever that thing is, people see that, they take it and they
go, okay, my God is blue. Hey everyone, I want to take a
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Let's get back into the episode.They see the blue and they go my
God is blue. And then they live their whole
life thinking that thing and they miss the diamond.
And it's like we, I don't want to, I don't want to live my life

(49:08):
or just thinking about that. People like just to have the the
ego to assume that everyone's supposed to fit in that square
peg. That's a great example of that.
I like the diamond and the different colors it's reminds me
of. I'm sure even younger people
will know this. The album Pink Floyd, Dark Side

(49:31):
of the Moon, that's like one of the most iconic album covers.
And it has a beam of light, likewhite light going into a
triangle, like a crystal, right?Or a diamond to your example.
And then out the other side of it shoots all of the colors of
the rainbow, right? It's a prism.
It's the way the visible light spectrum reacts when it's shown

(49:53):
through a crystal creates A prism, kind of like what you see
when you see a rainbow in the sky.
Those colors are always present in the spectrum of sunlight, but
we only see it in certain conditions, right?
And so, yeah, the way I look at that is whatever God is, I still

(50:13):
have no idea what it is or who it is.
I just know that it is when it created the diversity of human
beings, it's the thing that gaveus all our unique perspective
and preferences and the unique mind that we have and the
emotional body and all the elements of who we are is

(50:36):
infinitely diverse. And so if you have a religious
organization or a teaching that becomes too restrictive and
dogmatic, it's actually antithetical to how God created
us. You know what I mean?
It's like we're not all supposedto think the same way.

(50:57):
But I think the value in spiritual teachings and some
religions is there are universaltruths.
They're sort of the laws of the universe.
Like when you go out on the highway, there's the laws, codes
and statutes of what to do if you want to safely get from
point A to point B, right? You maintain a speed limit.

(51:18):
You don't run into the differentlanes.
You stop at the stop signs. You don't bump into other cars.
There are on the highway. If everyone kind of follows the
same guidebook or the same laws,everyone's going to get where
they're going safely. And I think of the life journey
in a very similar way. There are universal truths or
laws that are metaphysical there.

(51:38):
They're outside of the physical realm.
And if we learn what they are and how they operate.
And get better at. Practicing them in our lives, we
have a more fulfilling, rich experience of life.
And to me, the role of religion should be this.
How I would know if I'm in a church or any kind of

(52:00):
organization that aligns for me is it.
Is it about the teachings themselves?
And how much can we distill downto what the actual laws or
truths are? And we can each do our best to
adhere to those laws and help each other and support each
other to learn how to do that. But to put any other kind of

(52:24):
restrictions on people that are kind of human made invention is
ultimately going to be less liberating.
And more confining. And what we're going for is
liberation, right? We want to have a free mind
where we're able to think in newways and be open minded and

(52:45):
malleable and grow and change and evolve.
We want to have a healthy expression of our emotions and
have a effective way of communicating what we're feeling
inside. We want to be able to, you know,
have a, a work life and a home life that is fulfilling.
And to me, the way to do all of those things and a physical

(53:07):
health and all that right is to learn the fundamental universal
truths of the universe and to follow them.
And if we're not doing that, I'mnot interested.
You know, it's, it's a great wayto kind of vet, if a teaching
works for me, Is it, is it expansive?

(53:27):
Is it helping me to be bigger? And more of myself.
Or is it restrictive and causingme to hold back who and what I
am? So you you talked about
psychedelics? I am, I've never done any, but I
am fascinated by them. And I just specifically, I'm
really big into neuroscience andthe neuroscience behind

(53:51):
psilocybin is like insurmountably for the good of
humanity. It's it's so it's, it's amazing.
What, what psychedelics have youhave you tried?
Were there some that kind of were maybe you wouldn't do
again? Were there some that you, you
definitely recommend to people? What, what, what, what's, what's

(54:13):
that whole thing like? Sure.
Well, to answer the first question.
I would rephrase that. What psychedelics?
Have I not done and? I can't think of 1.
OK, now I'm. Kind of being a smart.
Ass. Maybe because I took a little
mushrooms this morning before our recording.

(54:36):
My sense of humor is, you know, a little more activated.
Awesome. OK.
When I was. In high school 1986, I started
to get back. Into drugs, as I told.
You, before I started younger, had a two year break when I went
to this boarding school and I'm in high school in a little ass

(54:59):
town in Colorado, a little town called Basalt.
I think we had a couple 100 kidsin high school.
And so yeah, I'd smoke weed before school all the time and
during school and all that, and then started getting into other
drugs. And then the first time I use a
psychedelic was LSD and I took it maybe like mid morning and it

(55:24):
started to hit in my home EC class and we're playing with
Tupperware. And you know.
Learning how to operate a kitchen and and that became
impossible, so I left for the day.
Yeah, understandably for anyone who's ever taken LSD and thus
began adding psychedelics, specifically LSD or acid as some

(55:52):
people call it, and mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms,
psilocybin mushrooms. When I started using them at 16,
I used both of those somewhat regularly for 10 years until I
was 26. When I got sober, the.
Difference between what? I've been doing for the past few

(56:16):
years, I guess since 2017, 18/19/2020.
Yeah, 5-6 years now. Was that when I was
experimenting with psychedelics back then, my teens into my 20s,
they were just another drug likealcohol, cannabis, cocaine,
heroin, crack, crystal meth. All the other drugs that I did,

(56:38):
alcohol, I classified them all in the same category as just a
way to get wasted and just to either have fun and just be free
and liberated and lose my inhibitions and just party, go
to concerts, all that kind of thing.
I had no idea, even after 10 years, that those substances are

(57:02):
in a completely different category than the drugs that I
was using to. Just kind of numb.
The pain of being in my life experience but even though I
had. No idea of.
The healing potential of those substances I did on a few

(57:23):
occasions have experiences that showed me that there.
Was more to the nature of our. Reality than I was able to
experience in everyday life, oneof them being the first or
second time I used LSD. I was just at a party getting

(57:45):
drunk. There was a keg.
We're listening to Rock'n'roll, smoking cigarettes, doing all
the normal things we did as teenage partiers.
Yeah, I was kind of like the, you know, we were the punk rock
kids in high school. And, you know, there's like
three of us in the whole high school with dyed hair and
earrings and stuff. It's funny, dude.
Back in the day, if you were like a heterosexual boy and you

(58:09):
like, I would dye my hair black and tease it out with Hairspray,
had earrings and all this kind of stuff.
And. You would.
I never got beat up, but you getpicked on and called gay and all
this kind of stuff. You know, it's funny to think
like now you you're probably cooler if you have tattoos and
dyed hair and earrings if you'rea teenager.
But back then, it's weird if youdon't have that stuff now.

(58:30):
Yeah, Yeah. Totally.
And you're like, what are you, anerd?
But back then. We were the outcast.
So we're partying and I'm out onthe porch and I look up at the
sky and I'm really high on acid.And I started looking at the
stars and I had, I mean, it's difficult to even articulate
because it was so profound. I had this understanding and

(58:53):
knowing of how vast the universeis and how completely
insignificant I am myself and all of my problems and pain and
worries we're just so minuscule in comparison to the vast
magnitude of the universe. So it was AI would say a micro

(59:15):
spiritual experience, right? It was someone again.
I mean, at that point I never even thought about God my whole
life. It just literally never crossed
my mind. And I kind of looked up and
went, huh, something had to havemade this and something made me
and that was the end of it. And then, you know, back and got
wasted and did psychedelics at concerts and stuff for many

(59:36):
years. Then there was another
experience. It's really funny because.
It took. Me about 22 years after the fact
to even realize what had happened but on another occasion
a few months before I ended up getting sober.
In the story I told you before, one of the things I did for work

(59:58):
was deal drugs, as many addicts do and one of the drugs that I
dealt was mushrooms. And so I would buy, you know, 5
lbs at a time, which is enough to get like an entire town high.
And so we would just take mushrooms all the.
Time just for fun. I mean, just going out to the
bar, take take some mushrooms and go get drunk at the bar, you

(01:00:19):
know, it's just like a normal thing.
So one night I did that and I meand my buddy who was the drummer
of my band took a bunch of mushrooms and we're just getting
drunk, smoking weed, hanging out, listening to music.
And I had what would ostensibly be a nervous breakdown.
I just had a complete meltdown. The mushrooms again, this I

(01:00:43):
didn't realize for a long time, but the the way the mushrooms
affected my system was it. Enabled me to see.
The reality of what bad? Shape I was in and like.
How bad addiction was? Destroying my.

(01:01:06):
Life like I just when I was trying to take those mushrooms
at night to kind of run, run away from reality and what they
did is the reality of my life hit me like a freight train and
I just cried. I was sobbing and telling my
friend what a loser I am and I'man addict and I got to I got to
do something. I have to change.
I don't know how to get out. And anyway, just had this whole

(01:01:28):
meltdown. My poor friend probably had a
really bad night, you know, Yeah, he's trying to just take
some shrooms, get drunk with Luke and have some fun like we
normally do. And I just went completely off
the rails. Yeah, so in all of those years
of kind of trying to use those substances to numb my pain, I
did have those two experiences wherein I saw beyond my reality

(01:01:53):
and was able to see greater truths.
Fast forward 22 years later, I'msober as a judge.
I mean, never smoked weed, had abeer, anything in 22 years, just
stone cold sober. And I, to make a longer story
short, I just, I started to meetpeople who were working with

(01:02:14):
ayahuasca, which contains something called DMT,
dimethyltryptamine. And there are a few things on
the planet that contained DMT. And one of the plants that they
make this ayahuasca, it's a tea essentially kind of a brew and
extract to different herbs. And one of the herbs has DMT and
that's what gives you the psychoactive effect.

(01:02:35):
And I started hearing these stories of people who were these
aren't druggie people, these aren't addict people.
These are people that are into spirituality, meditation,
They're happy, healthy people that are using ayahuasca in a
ceremonial, intentional way to heal emotional trauma, to open

(01:02:55):
their creativity. You know, the neuroscience
behind it. I started become aware of some
of that and I knew that even though I had been sober for all
of those years and had been, youknow, doing all kinds of therapy
and meditating and yoga and all these things, there were still
areas of my life in which I was stuck.
There were just things from my childhood that I couldn't, I

(01:03:18):
couldn't get to, to heal on a deep enough level.
So I was having these negative patterns still in my life.
So I was invited to go to an ayahuasca ceremony in Costa
Rica, which is a week long retreat.
And I sat on it for a few months.
And I, I thought that sounds like it could really be helpful

(01:03:38):
to me. But I'm sober and that doesn't
really go with being sober because I still viewed
psychedelics in the way that I used to, as they're just another
drug and I was afraid. It might, you know.
Kind of awaken the beast within me and maybe I'd start smoking
weed or drinking or doing cocaine or whatever.
So I was really afraid of using psychedelics, but eventually I

(01:04:02):
think I had enough. Trust in myself.
And self-awareness that because the idea persisted that this
ayahuasca, whatever the hell it was, I'd never taken it before.
I didn't really even know what it was.
I just felt like it could help me for some reason.
It was just an intuitive feeling.
So anyway, I go to Costa Rica, have that experience.

(01:04:22):
It was absolutely earth shattering and beautiful and
healing and transformative. And I left there a completely
different person. And thus began what has been an
incredible journey over the pastmany years of very

(01:04:43):
systematically, cautiously, intentionally, only when I feel
a very strong legitimate pull that the reason that I'm going
to sit. With the medicine.
Is going to be beneficial to my life and I'm doing it for the
right reasons and everyone has their own right reasons.

(01:05:03):
For me. The right reasons are am I doing
it to go deeper within myself and find greater levels of
truth, are the things that I'm stuck on that I want to work on,
that I want to heal, etcetera. So since that first trip to
drink ayahuasca, I've sat with ayahuasca a number of times.

(01:05:26):
Also worked with mushrooms and sometimes mushrooms.
In conjunction. With MDMA, which some
facilitators use synergistically, I've also
worked with something called 5 MEODMT, which is only present in

(01:05:46):
one place on the planet, and that's in the venom of a toad
called the Sonoran Desert Toad, otherwise known as Bufo
alvarius. I think it's Alvarius, is that
it? Oh yeah, Bufo alvarius.
I just call it Bufo. Yeah.
It's so interesting. This toad only exists on one

(01:06:08):
place on planet Earth, and it's in the southwestern desert
desert between the southwest United States and the snoring
desert in Mexico. This one little stretch of land,
these these toads live there. And some kook at some point
figured out that you could agitate them.
And their skin excretes this toxin.
Yeah. To keep predators away.
If a coyote tries to eat them, it'll get sick and maybe kill

(01:06:30):
it. So they.
It's their defense mechanism. Yeah, people have learned how to
extract and. Harvest.
That excretion, dry it out and smoke it and that that venom
contains a number of different alkaloids and peptides and
stuff, but the main ingredient is five meo DMT.
So there's that. And then there's a cactus called

(01:06:51):
the San Pedro cactus that's beenused ceremonially to produce a
medicine called wachuma. Then active ingredient there is,
what's it called the same thing in peyote.
Oh my God, it's slipping my mindright at the moment.
It's hilarious. It's all good.
And the other one is, the other one is peyote, which is, you

(01:07:12):
know, historically been a, a bigpart of the Native American
cultures and churches and thingslike that, a holy sacrament.
And now I'm stuck on that word. What is that damn word?
It's so funny. Can't believe I just forgot
that. Too many drugs in my life, kids.
That's that's all I can say. You lose it sometimes.
Mescaline. There we go.
Mescaline. So San Pedro and peyote are

(01:07:34):
different cacti, but they each contain the active ingredient of
mescaline. And so those are the main
psychedelics or plant medicines that I've worked with in the
past few years. And the difference between the
way I used to use psychedelics and all other drugs, as I said,
as I categorize them all as the same thing.

(01:07:57):
But what I've learned, especially as someone who is
sober, or at least my own version of it, I'm sober from
the drugs and alcohol that were problematic for me and have
addictive potential, Is that nowhere on record that I'm aware
of has anyone ever become, in a classical sense, addicted to any

(01:08:17):
psychedelic. In my experience, I I literally.
I couldn't become. Addicted to any of them if I
tried, even if I wanted to. And I was like, oh, I'm going to
become addicted to mushrooms. I'll take them every day.
Like the experiences are so intense and so profound, so

(01:08:37):
powerful, so just paradigm shifting that I find myself
saying no or passing. On those experiences. 99.999% of
the time that they're presented because I.
Only want to. Work with them when I have a

(01:08:59):
really good reason. And because those experiences
can be so intense and they can really just change your reality
so radically, I'm kind of afraidof them.
And it's, it's a healthy fear, right?
It's sort of like, you might like rock climbing, right?
But you have your limits as a rock climber.

(01:09:20):
You know, I'm kind of tired today.
That rock face is a little too dangerous.
So I'm not going to do it today or maybe not even too often.
You know, it's like you take someone who climbs Everest, they
don't go do it every weekend, right?
They maybe do it once in their life and they're like, OK, that
was scary, but I grew a lot as aperson from overcoming that

(01:09:43):
challenge. But it's not something I need to
do again or every day or, or anything like that.
So to the last part of your question, you know, what would I
recommend for people? I would never say that I
recommend that anyone uses psychedelics because it's such
an individual experience and it's one that can be

(01:10:07):
psychologically and physically dangerous if it's not done with
the utmost care and supervision.And it's it's something like any
skill that it's an acquired skill.
It's like a martial art learninghow to navigate the realms of
quantum. Unified Field.

(01:10:29):
And being in this kind of interdimensional space, it's
something that requires some skill, that is.
Usually skill. That is held by a shaman, A
facilitator, a therapist, someone who knows those those
layers of reality intimately andknows how to navigate them for

(01:10:53):
themselves through their experience and their training
and is able to take you as the, you know, the mentee or you know
the person being facilitated andhelp guide you safely through
those realms. Because in those realms of
reality, and for anyone that hasn't worked with psychedelics,

(01:11:14):
you'll be like, what the hell ishe talking about?
For anyone that has, you'll knowexactly what I'm talking about.
We exist in a realm that is limited to our bodily
perception, right? It's based on our senses, and
our senses are only able to perceive a narrow spectrum of
visible light. But science has proven that

(01:11:37):
there's a multitude of reality in other dimensions outside of
this narrow band with a visible light.
And so one of the things that psychedelics do is open up our
awareness and perception of a much wider bandwidth of reality.
And so you can think of it as inour normal waking state as we

(01:11:58):
are right now, because I only took a micro dose of psilocybin
this morning, I'm very much still here in the 3D with you,
otherwise wouldn't be able to have this conversation.
I'd probably be laughing the whole time or just completely
insane or actually or actually more sane.
So right now you and. I are and everyone listening
and. Watching, unless they're on

(01:12:19):
psychedelics or having some profound spiritual experience,
we're tuned in to Channel 3 on the TV, right?
But that doesn't mean that Channel one through 10,000 don't
also exist simultaneously. It's just the way God and nature
has designed us to function in abody as a human being is we're
we're only really able to handlethis one channel at a time.

(01:12:42):
And so that's why it can be so dangerous to open up all of
those other channels if you're not skilled and experienced in
those realms and especially if you don't have someone else
holding space for you that understands those realms.
So if things start to go a little off the rails and you
know, you get scared or you're having emotions that are

(01:13:05):
difficult to process, or if you're seeing things that might
be troubling that you start to think are real, I mean,
hallucinations and all this kindof stuff, it's really, really
important more so than like recommending them for people.
It's for people that do feel in earnest A curiosity or a call
like I did with ayahuasca, 20 years, 22 years sober.

(01:13:26):
It's like my intellectually, it made no sense.
I'm like, no, Luke, are you crazy?
Why are you even thinking about this?
You can't do that. You do not do drugs.
That is a drug. Yeah.
But there was, you know, there was an intuitive feeling in my
innermost being, an intuition that's like, now I know this

(01:13:47):
makes no sense, but I think I'm supposed to do it.
So if someone listening has thatfeeling like, yeah, like, you
know, you maybe someday you're like, wow, I'm looking at the
neuroscience of this and this really makes sense.
Like there's something viable here.
Shit. I think I'm, I think I'm meant
to do this. And there's no right or wrong
reason, right? I mean, when I was doing

(01:14:08):
psychedelics to try and escape my problems, there was nothing
wrong with that. It was just a different
intention and it, you know, based on the intention is the
result you're going to get. The result I had was some pretty
traumatic and dangerous situations.
So what I would recommend more than people do it or not do it
is ask yourself why you want to do it.

(01:14:29):
Next question be why now in my life do I want to do it?
Why does it have to be this weekend?
Could it be next year? Could it be next weekend?
Like why now? With whom have I thoroughly
researched the people or person that's going to be guiding me?
Are they trustworthy? Do they have integrity?

(01:14:49):
Do I know people that have had that experience with them that
felt safe and were safe? Does this person have a good
reputation? It's like they're other than
maybe picking a romantic partner, there might be no other
better decision you ever make then putting your trust over to

(01:15:11):
the person that is going to guide you in a psychedelic
experience. I mean, it's that important.
Yeah. That they are trustworthy and
safe and that you can verify that with a third party or
ideally a few third party individuals and say, Oh yeah, I
had a beautiful experience with them.
Everything was on the up and up.And I think most people in this
space are people of integrity and all of that.

(01:15:33):
But there are also many people in the psychedelic scene, of
course, like all areas of human life that are not in integrity
and are benevolent people, unfortunately.
So that that's really important.And then in addition to.
The why? Why?

(01:15:54):
Now with whom is the where you know, the environment that
you're in and these experiences is really, really important
because you're opening up your sensitivities in a way that is
just indescribable. You know the, the, as I said,
the portals that are being opened up, you're opening up
your perception of such a wide bandwidth of reality through all

(01:16:16):
these different dimensions. You don't want to be in a dirty
mobile home with Slayer playing on the radio, taking some acid,
you know what I'm saying, which I've done it.
You want to be in an environmentwhere there's a sense of the
sacred, where there's reverence,where there's beautiful music,
where you feel very physically safe and you understand your

(01:16:38):
surroundings and boundaries physically of where you're going
to be lying or sitting. Who's going to be there?
How many other people? Who are those people?
How long are we going to be there?
Can I stay there for a while afterward?
Is there someone on staff that has CPR training should anything
go awry? I mean, you could get up to go
to the bathroom and hit your head and yeah, I mean, all kinds

(01:17:00):
of crazy things can happen. So safety emotionally, mentally
and physical safety are of the utmost importance.
And that has a lot to do with the people that you're sitting
with where you're doing it. My preference personally is to
go away from my life, to be nowhere near my phone, nowhere
near my computer, not near any relationships or stress or work

(01:17:23):
that could be remotely triggering in any way.
So if I'm going to go sit with, you know, especially one of the
more powerful medicines like ayahuasca, I mean, I'm going
away for the whole weekend, staying a couple days after.
Because the lessons that that one learns in those experiences,
the truths that are revealed by by your higher self, by God,

(01:17:45):
maybe by the teachings that are being shared by the
facilitators, those experiences in and of themselves are life
changing. Because you have insights that
are, you're able to know things that you didn't know you knew,
right? It's like, it's like, imagine
when you pray and you're kind oflike, I don't know, I'm praying
to God. I think I believe in God, but I

(01:18:07):
don't really know. I'm not really getting answers
when I talk to God. It's not like God talks to me.
It's just my prayers are answered in a very ambiguous and
general way in my life. I start to see synchronicities
and I think, Oh yeah, wow, I wasreally struggling with this
thing and I prayed to God and now it seems to be better.
So it must have worked well in plant medicines.

(01:18:28):
It's like you're hearing the voice of your higher self and
the voice of your guy going do this, do that, don't do this,
don't do that. And so because the instructions
are so explicit and the clarity,sometimes it's just so razor
sharp to your reference of the diamond.
I've had the experience many times where I just go, wow, this
is like diamond clarity, diamondsharpness, you know?

(01:18:52):
So there, there are some teachings and transformation
that take place during the experience.
But more than anything, it's about what one does with it
afterward. And that's what they call
integration, right? Because psychedelic experiences
blow your psyche into a million pieces, your ego structure, your

(01:19:13):
persona, what makes you who you are, who you think you are, the
way you view yourself, the person you see when you look in
the mirror, all of that just goes, it's just like a nuclear
explosion. So you truly become
disintegrated. And so after the experience is
the most important part because that's when you integrate, you

(01:19:33):
become whole again. You know, integrity is like
wholeness, completeness, it's soundness, it's sturdiness, it's
it's where your strength is and in your in in your integrity.
So when your integrity is disrupted in such a profound and
usually beautiful, sometimes scary way, it's so important to

(01:19:56):
have time and space and also thehelp of facilitation and someone
who's trained to help you put yourself back together in a new
and hopefully more healed way. Yeah, I, I definitely.
Will at least be doing micro dosing in the future because I
just it's it's crazy that these things that are so beneficial

(01:20:18):
and I might get a little tinfoilhatty here these things that
solve I have my tinfoil hat right there on the desk.
I just I just. Didn't work for the video.
Yeah, it's like. Like Big Pharma wants.
People to be it's. Profitable to have people who
have mental illnesses, who struggle with these things, to
have them on something that willkeep them forever on the thing,

(01:20:41):
therefore forever buying the thing, therefore forever giving
them money versus this thing. I don't, I have never
experienced it myself. But like I've seen people who do
ayahuasca, who do psilocybin, who their lives are forever
changed. They get to like magnify some of
these traumas that they've dealtwith and look at them and heal

(01:21:04):
from them. PTSD healed in like one or two
or three sessions. Like if that's something that
can happen in three sessions, that's not profitable
whatsoever. That's not a good business
model. But that's true, right model.
That's the God. Model and that's what I think
about is like there are opportunities.

(01:21:24):
Even as a podcaster. Like, and I think business
owners should should, if they'relistening, they should hear this
is that if there is an option togive someone a gift of, of
healing, but it's not super profitable, just just do it.
Just go, just do that because you're being that's the God.
That's the God through you goinginto other people's lives.

(01:21:45):
And that's like if people could do that and just not be focused
on themselves because that's a self-centered behavior.
If you can just really think about how can you make an
impact? And that'll it'll just yeah,
anyway, yeah, you're absolutely right.
I. Mean this is the.

(01:22:06):
This is the future I. Think of our next step forward
in terms of. Healing.
Is moving into systems and modesof healing that aren't dependent
on the pharmaceutical industrialcomplex.

(01:22:27):
And I don't throw the baby. Out with the bathwater, I mean.
Listen, if I got bit by a, you know, Komodo dragon, give me
some antibiotics. You know what I mean?
Like I'm not I'm not an idiot ifI fall off the if I fall off the
roof and, you know, break my shoulder, like give me some
opiates, right? No problem with pharmaceuticals.
It's just to your point of pharmaceuticals.

(01:22:52):
Are not meant to. Solve the root problem.
And so if you're looking at psychiatric medication, which
which I tried, I can speak from experience, that was a masking
of symptoms without addressing the root problems, which for me
was PTSD from the trauma I experienced as a kid.

(01:23:14):
Sexual abuse is what my, well, alot of different traumas, but
that would been the, the big one, you know, on a number of
occasions. And so I could take
antidepressants, and maybe that might be beneficial if I'm about
to kill myself. Antidepressants are a step up
from dying, but they weren't something that would allow me

(01:23:37):
the full expression of life, right?
It was just kind of numbed me out and put me back to sleep
versus healing. That PTSD with ayahuasca.
Which very much happened for me then.
It's a one time thing and therefore no one's going to make

(01:24:00):
money from it because now I don't have the underlying root
cause of that anymore. So I'm not going to pay for
symptom relief because I don't have the symptoms anymore
because we went after the root cause.
Yeah. And in terms of, like the
monetary incentive, 3 1/2 grams of psilocybin mushrooms is

(01:24:20):
about, you know, the effective dose for most people that's
going to take you where you wantto go.
Anything over that is, you know,quite powerful.
And I don't think there's probably anyone on Earth that
would take, say, 3 1/2 to 5 grams of mushrooms and not have
it change their life in a reallymeaningful way.
Mushrooms. Since I was.

(01:24:41):
Selling them in the 90s, I, I'm pretty sure they're about the
same price are about $10 a gram.So about $35.
Anyone that can get a hold of mushrooms, again, in the right
context and all the stuff that Isaid earlier applies, I'm
noticing go buy a bag of mushrooms at the gas station
and, you know, spend the day in Target.

(01:25:05):
But think about that $35 worth of medicine can change your
entire life where you never haveto take that medicine ever
again, right? So it the financial incentive is
certainly not there. And that's an interesting thing
that we're going to observe in the coming years as
psychedelics, thankfully, are becoming more mainstream and

(01:25:27):
getting scientific validation because they're so inexpensive
to produce and they can't be patented.
It'll be interesting to see how they fit into the pharmaceutical
industrial model because there'sreally no money to be made
unless you make a novel psychedelic that you can patent.

(01:25:47):
And now it's a prescription medication.
But all of the ones that I spoketo earlier with which I have
experience are all, I mean, someof them are free.
You can grow your own mushrooms in your closet quite easily.
There's the plant San Pedro thatI mentioned, the cactus.
You can buy that at Home Depot. And it's totally legal, but it

(01:26:10):
becomes illegal when you processit and eat it.
But then it's a drug. Yeah, but it's free.
We have a bunch of. Growing in our yard.
I could go chop one down right now, call you back in three
hours and I will be completely tripping balls, You know, So
it's like, yeah, there's not a lot of money to be made in the
realm of of psychedelics, but there's so much healing
potential as you're now learning, you know, studying

(01:26:32):
neuroscience. And another thing I'll add to
that's interesting is in many indigenous cultures, plant
medicines are baked into their rites of passage for young
teenagers. You know, just like a hunting
trip or something like that would be right.
Spending time in a vision quest,going and sitting in a teepee

(01:26:53):
for four days with no food and just watering yourself, you
know, these kind of things. One thing that Western culture
is really missing amongst many things we're listening of just
intact family units, strong fathers in the homes, things
like that, which you're so luckyyou have that, you know, the
strong conscious dad that you have, you're so blessed.
You must have good karma, but most kids don't, I would say.

(01:27:16):
And one of the things we're missing that's so important is a
rite of passage. And it's interesting to observe
that in many indigenous culturesthroughout history, plant
medicines in warm form or another have been a large part
of that rite of passage. You know, it's like, OK, you
know, you're moving into womanhood or moving into
manhood. You're now ready to have a

(01:27:38):
greater and deeper experience ofreality.
And I think a lot of our stunted.
Emotional. Maturity and just ability to be
sovereign, responsible people has to do with our lack of
experience in those spiritual realms of having those peak
spiritual experiences that psychedelics so reliably

(01:28:02):
produce. That's kind of missing, right?
And going back to, you know, theexperience I had in my early 20s
where I didn't even realize thatthat meltdown I had on mushrooms
was the impetus for me. A few months later, going, I'm
done and checking myself into rehab.
You know, I didn't make that connection at the time, but it
was a rite of passage. It was like I was faced with

(01:28:23):
myself in such a terrifying and starkly real way that I couldn't
evade the responsibility of changing my life anymore.
It was a it was truly a rite of passage.
Yeah, yeah. I yeah, and I would love to see
because there, there's not a lotof studies on, on younger people

(01:28:47):
doing it before their brain is fully developed.
Usually the rule is kind of waittill for guys if you're 25, for
girls, if you're 23, wait, wait until your brain is fully
developed. Because we, and I would honestly
like to see how that affects like do a study on how before 25
it affects brain development. And maybe it's not a stunting,
maybe it's this crazy easy, amazing growth that happens like

(01:29:11):
in these developmental years of like your brain is different,
you have longevity once you're older.
I would, I mean, why are we not doing these studies?
That's a wonderful question. Yeah.
And honestly, maybe that's something I'll do in the future.
Who knows? But yeah, it is interesting, you
know? Some of the various shaman that
I've worked with in the realm ofplant medicines, specifically

(01:29:36):
Shapibo, people from Peru that work a lot with ayahuasca and
with Wachuma or San Pedro, and even some Native American and
Mexican tribes that work with peyote or psilocybin have
explained to me that, you know, and they're outside of the
Western paradigm of science and research, unfortunately, right.

(01:29:58):
I mean, fortunately for them, yeah, they're still living, you
know, living. In the jungle.
Etcetera. But they've explained to me that
plant medicines in a ceremonial sacred context are part of their
children's lives and and an integral part of their

(01:30:19):
development. And because they're given the
opportunity to heal any traumas that they've accumulated during
their lives, that they are much more mature, wise, happy and so
on. So it's interesting to think
about our brains not fully developing until we're in our,

(01:30:40):
you know, early to mid 20s, as you described.
It is unfortunate that we don't have data on people for whom
plant medicines have been part of their culture since they
were, you know, presumably a young teenager.
And to see how that has affectedthem, I would guess if I had to
put money on it, that it's affected them more positively

(01:31:01):
than negatively 100%. But if you take a case like mine
in. My.
Childhood, I know for sure that I did a lot of damage to myself,
not from psychedelics before I was 26, but from all of the
other drugs that I was using as a young kid and it's, you know,
it's unfortunate sometimes I think like, well, I'm, I've made
a pretty good life for myself and I'm a pretty bright guy.

(01:31:22):
I'm smart enough to kind of be successful in the world in
different ways, but sometimes I think, ma'am, imagine what I
would have accomplished had I not fried my brain with doing so
many drugs when it was still developing.
You know, I really stunted my mygrowth emotionally and mentally
and, and probably countless other ways about which I'm

(01:31:43):
unaware. Even so, I think there is
something to be said for not altering your brain chemistry
dramatically until your brain isfully baked.
But there's also something to besaid from the wisdom of
antiquity, from indigenous cultures that have, in a very
intentional and specific way, atvarious intervals, used plant

(01:32:06):
medicines and psychedelics for healing and expansion.
Yeah, and even to think. Like for younger?
People using this thing that could possibly mess with their
brain chemistry like look at Adderall.
Adderall is mean pretty much like a legal.
Yeah. So it's like, and we're giving
that to, I mean, I know my unclewhen he was like 11 or

(01:32:30):
something. Started on Adderall.
And he had to get off of that and that process was terrible
for him. And that's just what's up.
Like that's a solution to a common, I guess you could say
ADHD is like a mental health. I have ADHD and I've never taken
Adderall and I live in harmony with it.
And I think there are ways that you can find that maybe
psychedelics would help. Maybe they wouldn't.

(01:32:51):
I assume that they would based on how the research shows.
Yeah. I, I just this whole
conversation is is is fascinating along psychedelics.
Yeah. What what age are you now,
Solomon? I I'm. 17 Cool.
Yeah, and I'm so stoked. For you, dude, it's so fun to
see people your age this awake. It's amazing.

(01:33:14):
It's just like, so fun. Yeah, I love it.
It's, I think it's mainly honestly because.
Of of my dad and seeing him justthe everything that he.
Does he's my hero? Like for real, I, I, he's my
best friend and my hero and he has really anything that's good
about me is maybe a little bit of nature, but it's a lot of

(01:33:35):
nurture. It's a lot of my mom and my dad
pouring into me. And I'm lucky.
And this is my, this is my passion is just getting to share
these things because I feel likeI am a couple steps ahead of
people my age. I just want to, I want to level
up my generation. I would love for Gen.
Z to be the generation that changes the world and makes
everything decentralized. And we all get to like live in

(01:33:56):
this harmony where we focus on the similarities and not the
differences because there will always be differences.
But just the fact that we are both human beings is, is it's
just that's, that's what you canfocus on and that's the
similarities that we have. We're all human.
We're all human. You're different than me.

(01:34:17):
You've had a different upbringing than me.
But I can sit with you here for however long we've been talking
now and we can have the most amazing conversation when we're
I was born on the East Coast, you were born on the West Coast.
It's like just this all this different thing.
What? OK, so you are into biohacking?
What? How did you get into?

(01:34:38):
Biohacking, and maybe you don't.Even like the term biohacking.
Honestly, I get sick of it sometimes because I just hear it
so much. I've been trying to come up with
a better word. For taking care of your body.
For many. Years and I can't come up with a
better one, at least not one that's that's that catchy, you
know, or that people know what you're talking about.

(01:34:59):
I would think of it more bioharmonizing or bio healing
and but unfortunately when people see what I do in my
personal life and things I promote and talk about on my
podcast and so on, they say, oh,Luke, you're that biohacker guy.

(01:35:21):
And I always kind of cringe. I'm like, no, I don't view, I
don't view the body in a mechanistic reductionist.
Like what's the word dominionistic approach?
Like I'm going to tell my body what it's going to do.

(01:35:42):
I'm going to control my body. To me, the body is its own
intelligent living being. That is almost it's almost apart
from me, right, 'cause I believeand have experienced when I

(01:36:02):
leave my body, there's still a point of awareness that is me
right? So even though my.
Spirit is in. My body.
I don't feel like I technically am the body.
No body's alive. And my spirit is.
Alive and we're kind of working together in partnership.

(01:36:26):
Then it's not something that canbe hacked or that I would even
want to hack. It's more like I have a
relationship with the body and acommunication with the body, and
we're there to help and support one another and serve one
another, right, 'cause the body needs me to give it certain
inputs and help help it to avoidthings that are deleterious to

(01:36:50):
its well-being. And the body provides my soul a
vehicle with which I can travel in the material plane and do
what I'm supposed to do here. So it's kind of more like a
friend than it is a. Computer to me.
And I don't try to hack my friends.
I try to love my friends and understand my friends and give

(01:37:10):
them what they need and allow them to give me what I need.
Yeah. So that's my.
Kind of. Approach to it, which has
evolved, I think I used to thinkin more of a a domineering sense
like, you know, I'm going to getmy body optimized, you know, and
it's like man, the body just, itjust wants you to help it.

(01:37:32):
Avoid things that. Hurts it and it wants you to.
Give it things. It needs to be vital and to keep
healing and regenerating. So my approach to what is called
biohacking is multifaceted, but.Ultimately.
Really. Simple I believe.

(01:37:53):
If. You could boil down everything.
That makes a. Human being die prematurely, get
chronic illness, fatal illness. Any problems we have with the
body can be leaving. Aside the emotional and.
Spiritual part, which is huge, so I'm not discounting that, but
it's a whole other podcast to gointo that.

(01:38:13):
But just speaking in the gross physical material context, the
only thing wrong with us is thatwe have domesticated ourselves
and we live like zoo animals when we're actually meant to
live like wild animals. If you take a lion off the

(01:38:36):
Savannah as a cub and cut it offfrom natural sunlight,
biocompatible food, put it under.
Distress of. EMF or electromagnetic
frequencies, cell towers next tothe zoo, Wi-Fi all over the zoo.
Everyone has a cell phone in thezoo.

(01:38:57):
Give it blue light. You know, a very narrow,
unnatural, non-native spectrum of light.
Turn the lights on at night whenit's not supposed to be light.
Yeah, give it water full of fluoride and all the other
chemicals present in water. That lion will develop chronic
if not fatal diseases that lionsin nature do not get so.

(01:39:22):
We'll look at the. Kibble, dry kind of cat food
that they're feeding the lion and go, ah, it's the food we got
to give it, you know, raw living, you know, rats or
whatever. Lions eat right, throw a.
Gazelle in the cage and we thinkit's just the food, but it's a
combination of circadian mismatched lighting.

(01:39:47):
It's the EMF, it's the water, it's the entire environment.
It's the lack of physical movement, what we might call
exercise. I don't, I hate exercising, so I
don't call it that. I just like to call it movement.
Like lions are meant to run hundreds of miles probably per
day, right? They're just, all they do is
move. So we lock ourselves in square

(01:40:08):
boxes. Like this room, all right
angles, right angles don't existin nature.
We see sunlight through windows,which cuts out a large spectrum
of the light. These windows here in Texas cut
out the infrared light for energy conservation.
They cut out, I forget it's the UVA or UVB, but it filters out

(01:40:30):
the light and creates a a non-native kind of narrow
spectrum of blue light anytime you're behind glass.
We don't experience extreme heatand extreme cold unless we take
saunas, an ice bath. So we live at 68°.
That doesn't happen in nature. We don't move.
We sit on our couch, then we sit.
We get in the car, we sit in thecar, then we go somewhere.

(01:40:52):
We sit down there, we get back in the car and sit down.
We come home, we sit on the couch again, and then we come
sit at our desk. We got a Wi-Fi router under the
desk, maybe in the wall behind her bedroom.
There's 75 cell towers, you know, within a mile if you live
in a city. Everything about the way we live

(01:41:14):
in our domesticated. Indoor.
Life makes the body breakdown and get sick.
So my approach to biohacking is what are the things missing in
my diet that the body needs and wants?
How can I recreate water that islike water from a Rocky Mountain

(01:41:37):
spring? How can I make the lighting
inside my house match the lighting outside of my house in
terms of the color spectrum and the brightness and the time of
day that I'm seeing light or notseeing light?
And how can I move my body in a way that's more alignment with

(01:41:59):
how human beings have evolved tomove in terms of the frequency
of movement and the type of movement?
Am I lifting heavy things? Am I stretching?
Am I being mobile? And am I moving the body in and
out of different ranges of motion?
Or am I just sitting in a chair all day?
If I'm sitting in chair for a few hours, how often do I get up
and twist around and move aroundand hang on some monkey bars or

(01:42:20):
hang upside down or, you know, swing on a tree or swing a
kettlebell or whatever it is, Jump on the trampoline?
Yeah. So my approach to biohacking is
giving the body what it needs. Protecting the body from what?
Doesn't serve it. Such as blue light, EMF, toxin,
seed oils, whatever and then using different.

(01:42:41):
Technologies. Like an ice bath?
An infrared sauna, PMF devices, ozone machines, hyperbaric
oxygen chambers, laser therapy, which is just light, all of this
kind of stuff. Hydrogen.
I got my hydrogen inhaler right here.
My camera went blurry for some reason.

(01:43:01):
There we go. Is how can I give my body the
inputs from nature that it's missing from living in an indoor
life and, of course, getting outin nature as much as humanly
possible? I mean, I'm out in the yard all
the time, just naked, laying in the sun.
You know, I think the sun is just the ultimate healing energy

(01:43:21):
in the universe. Yeah, of course, you know, you
don't want to get sunburned. But yeah, if you learn how to
work with the energies of the sun, you can be out in the sun.
Even fair skinned people I've trained can be out in the sun
and they don't get sunburned. It's a whole other protocol.
Sun gazing, looking at the sunset, looking at the sunrise.
So to me, biohacking is bio healing, bioharmonizing.

(01:43:42):
It's getting back in touch with the supportive energies that
exist in the world, on the planet, in the cosmos.
Magnetism, grounding, earthing. I'm, I'm got my bare feet right
now on a grounding mat. All the EMF around my desk is
all shielded, so I'm not exposedto any electric field.
So I try to make the indoor experience of my life, where I

(01:44:06):
live and where I work the same as being outside as much as
possible. And that's when it gets into
kind of the techie side of biohacking is like, wow, you
know, I'm getting rid of the blue lights, putting in red
light bulbs, doing all this kindof stuff.
But it's not to try to hack the body.
It's actually to be in harmony with the body and be in
communication with it in terms of really feeling and asking the

(01:44:29):
body, what do you need that you're not getting and what are
you getting that you don't need?Yeah, I think.
There's so many things that I want to you give me like 1000
different lanes we could go down.
But when you talk about the the EMF.
So first of all, can you just dolike a quick explanation of what

(01:44:50):
an EMF is for some of my listeners who probably
electromagnetic frequencies? Or electromagnetic fields.
So inside your home, for example, like in this office,
there's lights in the ceiling and there's a light switch over
there. There's a fan up there.
There's outlets on all the wallswhere I can plug things in,
right? Well, if you take the drywall

(01:45:13):
off these walls, what you'll find is a bunch of plastic,
shielded metal wires that carry the electricity to things I want
to plug in and to be able to turn the lights on.
Well, that electricity in the United States runs on a
frequency of 60 Hertz. 60 Hertz has been over and over again

(01:45:33):
determined to be harmful to humans.
When you're exposed to it, it's not natural. 60 Hertz in
isolation doesn't exist anywherein nature.
Going back to like nature has the answers right.
So nowhere in the planet can yousit anywhere and be exposed to
just 60 Hertz of electricity. It doesn't exist.
I love that I can turn the lights on.

(01:45:54):
I love that we can be on a computer right now.
It has its benefits. But EMF in that regard is an
electric field. And so from about 6 feet into
the interior of a room on all sides where there's wiring in
those walls, the body is constantly exposed to the 60
Hertz electric field. If you're, you know, sitting
next to a lamp, the wire goes upinto that lamp where you turn

(01:46:17):
the switch. That lamp is emitting an
electric field. That's one type of EMF.
There are many types of EMF. So if you're sleeping with your
bed against the wall and there'stwo outlets behind your wall,
you're being radiated by electricity all night.
So that's one type. Another type of EMF would be a
magnetic field, and magnetic fields are sometimes present

(01:46:38):
inside your house coming off thewalls because of errors in the
wiring. The electrician didn't follow
code and therefore your wiring isn't grounded right and you'll
be experienced in a magnetic field or things like your
refrigerator, anything with a motor.
The pool equipment behind this wall makes a crazy magnetic
field that goes through the wallinto our living room.

(01:46:59):
Then you have what's called RF or radio frequencies.
This is a smart meter on the side of your house, your cell
phone, anything with Bluetooth, your Wi-Fi router, cell towers,
FM radio waves going through theair, radar from airports, the
radar in your car that tells youyou're about to hit something,

(01:47:22):
the little bumper radar. Military bases have all kinds of
RF or radio frequencies coming off them.
Radio frequencies are widely understood to be the most
harmful and cause the the most severe interference
biologically. And so there's a number of

(01:47:43):
different things that that radiofrequencies do that are harmful
to the body, one of which being interfering with the natural
electric voltage of the body andthe way cells open and close to
allow different minerals like calcium and magnesium to get in
and out. So your cells have an electrical

(01:48:04):
polarity that allows them to open up to let nutrients in and
then open up again to let toxinsout.
One of the things that chronic EMF exposure does is it
interferes with that process. So there's.
Electric fields, magnetic. Fields and radio frequencies,

(01:48:24):
magnetic. Yeah, I think I covered them
all. So essentially, just to boil it
down, in nature, EMF exists. The sun is radiation, right?
That's what it is, right? That's why you get sunburned if
you go out in the sun too long and you know, you're fair
skinned and you haven't like worked up to your, you haven't
worked up your solar callus. There's also a magnetic field

(01:48:45):
that comes off the Earth. So magnetism, electricity in the
air, right? I mean, you see lightning that
there's nothing wrong with electricity.
There's nothing wrong with radiation.
There's nothing wrong with magnetic fields.
It's just in nature, they're allin balance and they are
biocompatible with the human body.
When we produced electricity in all of the technology that we've

(01:49:08):
become so dependent upon, we've created distorted versions of
those different frequencies thatexist in nature.
And we've isolated the differentfrequencies in ways that the
body does not know how to recognize and process.
And we've also increased the strength of those frequencies to
levels that are 10s of thousandstimes higher than whatever

(01:49:32):
exists in nature. So EMF to me is a bigger problem
than junk food. Yeah, I mean if you.
Put it this way. If you told me you could live in
a world where there's no EMF or you have to live in a world
where all there is to eat is fast food, I would take the fast

(01:49:55):
food world with no EMF. Put it that way.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it's like eating Doritos. 24/7 You can't
constantly ingest bad foods. You can constantly ingest these
bad electromagnetic fields and be surrounded by them.
Yeah, before I forget. Before I forget, yeah, for for
folks listening that want to learn more about EMF's.

(01:50:16):
And I mean, it's gotten so bad. Now we have 5G, which stands for
fifth generation. When, when I got my first cell
phone in, I don't know, maybe 199798, something like that, you
would experience like call drops, right?
I remember I'd go through certain neighborhoods in LA and
my phone would die for like 2 blocks and that was like 1G,

(01:50:40):
right? But other than that, it worked
just fine. Now we're up to 5G, which are
even more powerful and more dangerous frequencies,
especially in city centres, likein dense, dense population
centres at any downtown city in the world.
Now it's full of 5G and my phonedoesn't really work any better

(01:51:00):
than it ever did. So it's got to tell you
something about put on the tinfoil hat again here for a
moment. Why the increase in all of these
cell towers, the power of the cell towers, the dangerous
frequencies that the cell towersare using when they could use
frequencies that are actually good for you, but they just

(01:51:21):
choose not to. It's not for faster downloads,
put it that way, which is what the marketing will tell you.
I was at the T-Mobile store yesterday, like faster
downloads, 5G. I'm like, no, not really.
I'm in, I'm in the store. My phone works the same as it's
always worked. Yeah.
But the, the, the issue is that the, the cell towers are really

(01:51:42):
the biggest problem and also your cell phone and having Wi-Fi
in the home and smart technology.
So I'm going to give your listeners a really awesome and
generous gift. I created an EMF course that is
about 5 1/2 hours of high quality video content that
explains every detail about EMF that I just kind of gave an

(01:52:04):
overview of. But also every practical
solution. Things like how to shield your
Wi-Fi router or how to, you know, set it on a timer and turn
it off on night. How to protect yourself, protect
yourself when you're using your laptop or your cell phone and
all the things, right. And it's a completely free
course. There's no charge, there's no
catch at all. You can go to lukestory.com/EMF

(01:52:29):
master class and just put in your name and e-mail and you get
lifetime access to the entire course.
And I did that as kind of a service to humanity.
And I was inspired to do that because I was living unknowingly
directly under 2 massive cell towers for three years when I
lived in LA. And they were hidden and I was

(01:52:51):
well aware of the dangers of cell towers, but I couldn't see
them because they were behind a kind of a decorative wall on the
building next to my apartment. And I got really, really sick
for three years. I started having to wear
glasses. I got chronic tinnitus.
I had brain fog to where I sometimes I could barely drive a

(01:53:11):
car. I was like so out of it.
And I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.
I did all this functional medicine testing and detox
protocols and went to every doctor I could and no one could
figure out what was wrong with me.
And eventually I discovered I was.
I discovered the cell towers andI moved.
And over the years since then, all those symptoms have started

(01:53:33):
to subside as I've really put a lot of energy into eliminating
the EMF from my life. And that course again, Luke
story.com/EMF Master class. You can put a link in your show
notes if you want. It'll be all the things I've
learned. In. 20 years of research on how
to live in the world and use your phone and use your computer

(01:53:54):
and stay connected, but really minimize the, the dangers
involved. So I'm really, really passionate
about educating people about EMFbecause it's, because it's
invisible. People don't understand how
dangerous it is. Like if you put, you know, like
you said, some Doritos and a pack of cigarettes in front of
someone, they're like, oh, that's bad for you and they take

(01:54:15):
it. And there's a direct correlation
between I ate this thing or drank this thing, and now I
don't feel well. But because EMF fields are
invisible, we don't know that that's what's making us sick
until you Start learning how to do testing with different meters
in your home, and you start to see like, wow, I basically live

(01:54:36):
inside a giant microwave oven. Yeah.
And I even listened to a podcastepisode.
They were talking about Teslas and how bad Teslas are for
people because, I mean, you people might think, I mean, you
talked about the radars and stuff on your car, like when
you're trying to like, like, oh,brake like that, that kind of
stuff effects you. But Tesla's, I've heard are just
like a microwave for people. Yeah, they unfortunately.

(01:55:00):
All modern cars that have that are run on computer chips and
that have, you know, like Apple Car Play, for example, where
there's a Wi-Fi router right in your car right next to your
head, and you have the Wi-Fi andBluetooth and your phone in the
car. And those are all bouncing
around in the car. And then you have cell towers
from every direction coming intoyour car to connect with those

(01:55:22):
things. So every modern car is really
bad. Tesla's are a little more
problematic because they run on obviously electricity and the
battery is right underneath the seats.
So they're, they're pretty rough.
But honestly, people give Tesla's a lot of crap and
they're not that much worse thanI have a BMW and my wife has a

(01:55:43):
Tesla and they're about the sameto be honest.
They're both really high EMF. So one of the things I do in my
car is I manually have to go into the controls and turn off
the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, and then I plug my phone into the
USB cable. And that's what I used to like
listen to podcasts and music andstuff.
And then the only time I really turn my phone on and turn on the

(01:56:04):
Apple Car Play in the car is if I have to use my GPS, like use
Waze or something to get somewhere interesting.
The longer I live. I moved to Texas three years
ago. The longer I live here, the
better I find my way around so Idon't have to use the GPS that
often. Yeah.
Interesting. OK.
I saw in this is something that stuck out to me when I first

(01:56:24):
emailed you. At the bottom of your e-mail, it
said sent from a blue light and EMF protected device.
Do you have a different phone? What, what, what, how do you,
how do you make your phone EMF and blue light protected?
Because I know you, you touched on the light.
It's so important for us to avoid blue light because it's

(01:56:46):
not. It's not.
It's not good for us whatsoever.And I think a lot of people my
age who listen are listening to this on their phone, and they're
probably freaking out, being like, my phone is killing me.
What the heck is going on? What do I do?
Yeah. So how do you avoid that?
Yeah, I try. To avoid using fear tactics.
But here's the thing with EMF and blue light, which as I said

(01:57:07):
to me are just the biggest problems we face right now.
I mean, you got your seed oils and glyphosate.
There's other issues, but I guarantee you in. 10 years, 20.
Years, 30 years, we're going to look back on our light
environment and the level of EMFin our life and it's going to be
like DDT or asbestos or when in the, you know, in the 40s when

(01:57:30):
doctors recommended that smokingcigarettes is good for you.
I mean, that literally happened.So to your question about the
phone, you can see my phone herein the video.
I installed a widget on my home screen and the widget has sleep,
wake, red phone, blue phone. So if I hit sleep it turns the
phone screen red and turns off all the EMF.

(01:57:54):
When I click wake, all the EMF and all the blue light turns on.
If I hit red phone, the phone stays on but all the blue lights
killed and the screen turns totally red like that.
Yep, if I want. The.
Phone to still be asleep, but I want to be able to see it
without the red light. Then I hit blue phone, Right.
So it has four options. And I can send you a link to

(01:58:17):
this widget. It's totally free.
Yeah, I found it on a blog post.And you just follow the prompts
and that your phone is then protected.
And then there's a case on my phone.
Made by a company called. Safe sleeve, That's like a
little wallet case. And there's also a company
called. Defender Shield.
That makes a similar case. And what this does is it Shields

(01:58:40):
the EMF coming off the front side of your phone.
So if I'm talking on the phone, on speakerphone, which is the
only way I would ever talk on the phone, the part of the phone
that's facing my skull and my very valuable precious brain,
what what's little left of it after all those years of drug
abuse, I'm not radiating myself through the front of my phone.

(01:59:04):
And if I have to have my phone turned on while it's in my
pocket because I'm expecting a call or something, then I'll put
the EMF shielded side toward my body.
So it's not shooting EMF into myvital organs or, you know,
reproductive organs, God forbid,or anything like that.
So, yeah, the phone case is a good way to protect your phone.

(01:59:25):
And then that widget, the blue light killing widget is another
really good way for anyone that doesn't want to do that.
I'm just going to say, like dudes and doodads, If you are
sleeping in your bed with your phone turned on and it is
anywhere near you within like 20feet, you're really hurting

(01:59:48):
yourself. For real.
Yeah, I know a lot of people sleep with their phone.
Literally like I'm talking like in their bed next to them, like
right there. Like even in their pocket they
fall asleep with it in their hands.
Like that is so common amongst my generation.
They're not safe. So at the very.
Bare minimum, if you have to have your phone in your bed,
which I do because I'd love to fall asleep to podcast, it just

(02:00:12):
puts me to sleep. And when I can't sleep
especially, just put it on airplane mode.
But The thing is, if you just hit the little airplane symbol
on your iPhone, it usually doesn't turn off the Wi-Fi and
the Bluetooth, which is why I like this widget because you go
sleep and it just shuts down your whole phone.
Yep. I mean, you can it'll still

(02:00:32):
function, but it takes it completely offline.
Yep. So that's, that's the number one
thing. And the number two thing, just
as another free tip is if you'renot in a house where you can
just hardwire everything on Ethernet, which is what we did
in our house. So all the Sonos speakers, all
the computers, the TV, everything is on Ethernet.
There's no Wi-Fi anywhere. There's no smart refrigerator,

(02:00:54):
smart washer and dryer. There's no smart anything in
this whole house because it's all toxic.
You can at least put your Wi-Fi router on a timer so it goes off
around the time you go to sleep and then it turns back on in the
morning. So you're not getting that 2.4
or five gigahertz blasting your body all night long when you

(02:01:15):
sleep. It's really, really important to
do that. So keep your cell phone off at
night, keep your Wi-Fi off at night as a bare minimum.
Just a starting point. Yeah.
Isn't going to be a major inconvenience to you or the
people you live with. OK, That is.
I, I mean, it's amazing and I'm gonna, I'm all, by the way, for
people listening, all of that stuff, I'm gonna find and put it

(02:01:37):
in the show notes and the, the widget, all that stuff.
Yeah, just remind, remind me andI'll text you.
The widget and it takes like 5 minutes.
You just look at the blog post, follow the prompts on your
iPhone. I think they actually have it
for Androids too. And then you'll see once it's on
your phone, you can't imagine how you ever had your phone
without that widget installed because it's so easy.

(02:01:58):
It's like one click. Yeah, even at night, like if I
want to use my phone to scroll or look at emails or whatever,
I'll just turn it on red. And once you get used to the red
phone at night, when it's dark in your room, my phone is always
red. I have it.
I've had it red. For a long time now and then
when you when when you experience of like.
Sometimes I'll be in bed with mywife and she'll have her phone

(02:02:19):
on normal and it's like, it's like someone, it's like you're
on a camping trip and someone comes in the tent with the
flashlight and points it in yourface.
You know, like when you get so bright, you get pulled over and
the cop is like points the lightin your car.
It's like so obnoxious. Once you get used to a red light
phone at night, you'll never turn back.
So I'll send you the widget. And for people listening to on

(02:02:40):
any of the phone cases and stuff, I don't sell anything
myself, but I do have a web store where I link out to all of
my favorite products that I research and stuff.
So there's a whole EMF section on my website with all these
different devices and things youcan put in your home that help
you harmonize the EMF fields andstuff.
There's a lot of, thankfully a lot of really great technology
that you know, helps our body bemore resilient to the effects of

(02:03:04):
EMF as well. Awesome.
I'm gonna. On wax, on wax off.
We usually do kind of like a lightning round of questions and
then I'll let you get out of here.
Sounds good. How did you find?
Your passion. I found my passion through
suffering. How do you pursue your passion

(02:03:25):
and not get burnt out? I.
Make sure to build into my. Lifestyle, which is why my
podcast is called the Lifestylist because it's about
integrating different modalitiesand practices to help you have,
you know, a fulfilling and vitallife.
I personally have habituated myself to bacon a lot of

(02:03:48):
self-care routines into my work day.
I'm fortunate enough to work from home, which has its
benefits and its downsides. Its downsides is you can easily
not get your work done because you're at home.
There's other stuff to do. Yeah.
But I, you know, I take meditation breaks, I take little
nap breaks. I jump in the ice bath.

(02:04:10):
I might take a sauna. I take a walk.
I go get in the sun, I'm constantly throughout the day
taking little breaks to restore myself, to settle down my
nervous system, to change my perspective, to stay grounded.
So I'm not someone that believesin like, you know, work harder
to accomplish more. I'm someone that believes in

(02:04:31):
work smarter to accomplish more without hurting yourself in the
process. If you could tell. 18 year old
you one. Thing.
What would you tell him? I would tell 18 year old Luke.
That you. Are absolutely perfect and
deserving of love. What are?

(02:04:53):
Three things that my generation.Should integrate into our lives
meditation. Some form of therapeutic healing
for the emotional harms you've endured in your life, no matter
how insignificant they might seem to you.

(02:05:14):
Everyone has had experiences in our childhood that scar us and
give us some degree of PTSD. Whether you know, one of your
parents was an alcoholic that beat you up, whether you were
molested, you know, those kind of things on the extreme end of
the spectrum. But others have had really
beautiful, loving parents in a family life.

(02:05:35):
But you might have been the middle kid and your older
brother was the football track star, perfect grades.
Your younger sister was the famous ballerina, and you're
just kind of an average kid and therefore you got ignored and
didn't get nurturing and attention.
And that's a different kind of adifferent kind of emotional
hurt. You know, you might have been

(02:05:55):
bullied in school or had a learning disability.
You know, we all have our challenges, but facing and
addressing ways in which we've been emotionally hurt is really,
really important, especially to begin that practice when you're
young because guess what? Life keeps hitting you.
It's not like you go through challenges as a child and then

(02:06:16):
you get to heal those and then you sing Kumbaya around the
campfire forever. Life comes at you later on.
There's divorces and lawsuits and people you love die.
And you know, as you get older, it's not like you stop getting
hurt, but you build resiliency and you build a skill set where
you know how to process and healfrom the experiences of life in

(02:06:37):
real time. But if you don't go back, say
you're 1817, go back and start to backfill and really start to
address some of those things that you experienced when you
were young, you'll never learn that skill.
And they'll keep compounding andthe maladaptations of dealing
with those unhealed parts of yourself will start to actualize

(02:06:58):
as. Negative patterns in.
Your life, your inability to, you know, find your passion, to
have the career you want, to be able to have the kind of
relationships you want and so on.
So those would be two and the third would be.

(02:07:19):
To let go of the idea. That you need to fit in and to
celebrate. Your uniqueness.
And if you find you don't fit inin the subculture or family in
which you find yourself, to finda tribe and a community of
people that understand you and love you and accept you for who

(02:07:43):
you are. And it doesn't mean you have to
throw away your existing friendsand family.
You just need in that case, additional extended friends and
family that do understand you and that you can fully be your
authentic, messy, beautiful selfwith what is.
Your favorite book? My favorite book.

(02:08:07):
I'll tell you the book that had.The largest impact on my.
Life. I don't know that it's my
favorite book, but it's the bookwithout.
Which I don't know that I would be.
Alive or be the man that I am today.
And the name of that book? The title of the book is
Alcoholics Anonymous and it's a book that contains the.
Teachings of the 12. Steps and is was originally

(02:08:30):
written obviously for Alcoholics.
It's referred to in recovery circles as the big book because
it's a really it's a really big fat book.
It has giant high like a huge font, you know, Yeah.
And they, it's funny, when they made that book, they made it

(02:08:50):
really big and substantial so that they could charge enough
money to keep their organizationafloat because they didn't have
any other way to make money. But that book is really
something that changed my life and helped me understand the
nature of addiction and alcoholism and more than
anything, gave me the skill set to overcome it and to become
free of of those problems. Wow.

(02:09:14):
Thank you so much for. Being on the podcast, thank you
for being with me and getting totalk to me.
And it's been, it's been a blast.
Where can people find out more about you?
Thank you for inviting me. It's been, really.
Fun talking with you. It gives me it gives me faith in
humanity to know there's a 17 year old man out there who's,
you know, seeking truth and living it.

(02:09:36):
So I, I applaud you for doing what you're doing and for having
a podcast where you can share, share these messages with
people. And, you know, hopefully people
that are listening are, are younger people too, man.
Cuz it's like, dude, if I would have had Someone Like You to
listen to when I was 17, I probably would have had a much,
much easier go at life, you know?
So thank you for that really means a lot.

(02:09:57):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, man. It's just true where?
People can find me the the number one coolest thing I do in
the world, I think is my podcast, the Lifestylist.
I've had your dad on the show and a number of other luminaries
and alternative health and spirituality and things like
that. And then my main website
islukestory.com. And from there you'll find, you

(02:10:18):
know, my social media and YouTube and all the podcasts,
past episodes, my online store, as I mentioned, with all of the
bio healing products and services and things that I
promote and and use myself. But Luke story.com is is the
mothership where you can find all of the other tentacles of my
reach in the world. Amazing.

(02:10:38):
Well, thank you again for. For being on bye everyone.

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