Your “Organic” Meat Is a Lie: Adam Mason on Pesticides, MAHA, and Surviving Big Ag’s Budget Cuts #31

Join us for a hard-hitting conversation with regenerative farmer Adam Mason as he exposes the dark truths of the modern farming industry. From the lies behind “organic” meat labels to the impact of USDA budget cuts and the MAHA movement’s fight against toxic pesticides like glyphosate, Adam breaks down what’s really at stake in our food system. Discover why your grocery store chicken might not be what it seems, how regenerative farming could reshape the future, and what it means to know where your food comes from. This episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to confront Big Ag’s corruption and rethink how we feed the world.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
What are the biggest problems with the farming industry now?
Are we talking conventional? Yeah, Well, we should define
conventional. Conventional agriculture is the
typical, you know, plow lots of tillage and, you know, synthetic
fertilizers, pesticides, and, you know, monoculture. 11

(00:25):
growing one thing so that that just that type of of model of
growing food ends up with a lot of consequences.
So one one of the things I have is convenience create
consequences and and that standstrue on on most things.

(00:46):
So anytime you have a convenience, there will be a
consequence for that. The consequence for growing, you
know, lots of one type of food is that you you injure the the
ecology of the environment on which you grow on and you have a
high potential of, of having that that crop being toxified

(01:15):
in, in some way. It's not the optimal way of
growing, growing that that crop.So I think, I think that is,
that is one of the major issues in the food system is that we
are, you know, we're, we're, so we're, so the, the industry is
so focused on profit that everything else gets pushed to

(01:36):
the wayside and you definitely have consequences.
You talked about kind of the, the in essentially would you say
it's kind of the it's not the best way to farm?
I, I don't think it is, but again, it is super convenient.
Some of the things it's well to not get too into the weeds

(02:03):
'cause you can get in really, really pretty deep into the
weeds. I would say in in most of these
things, but I think that that itis, there are conveniences to it
that do optimize some yields, but years down the road you're
creating a bigger issue which will diminish your yields.

(02:26):
And so in some sense it is almost more work to in the in
the conventional sense then you know, like a no till sense.
So, so there's, there's implements that can come in and
and plant the seeds straight in without, you know, opening up

(02:47):
the soil. So there there's different
models, but you know that that is that's one of the the issues
I think. What is the right way to farm?
The right way when when we're talking about farming, what what
what comes to mind in on your well are are you talking animal

(03:12):
side of agriculture, plant side?I think it is everything and I
know you specify more in, in themeat area of things with
animals. So I we can go kind of that
route 'cause that's probably what you're more experiencing,
but you also like you, you know about the plant side of things,
right? Yeah.
So I mean, my background is in is in plant science.
That's probably why I started that way thinking that.

(03:34):
But yeah, I mean, I, I grow, I produce meat.
I your question is what is the right way of of raising animals?
Raising animals, but I even think that what what is it that
the animals are eating? They're eating these plants.
And I think if it's if it is this kind of ecosystem in this
cycle of that we're all consuming something that's

(03:58):
consuming something. And, and how are how are we
making both of those things, thethings that we are consuming and
the things that the thing that we are consuming is consuming
the best that it can be. And and, and So what is that
like right way to farm because it is like this kind of circle
or cycle. Right.
I think on the animal side of thing, I mean both definitely

(04:21):
have their negatives, but when you look at the extreme of
conventional grown meat, meat products, the way they're raised
it, it is a horrible, horrible living condition for these
animals. The typical life of let's say a
chicken is in a giant warehouse.You know, you could have 10 to

(04:46):
100,000 birds in one house. The air is so thick with dander
that you, when you look down through these houses, there's
this fog and it's all from that,that chicken, the bird dander,
you know, fecal matter is, is inthat air and it's a horrible
living condition for these birds.

(05:07):
Again, they are living, breathing that in.
And because they're locked into a permanent system, that
permanent system will start to it, it, it creates destruction.
So whenever, whenever you have anything permanent, it starts to
degrade, you know, even to a fence, fence line.

(05:30):
What what grows in the fence line, you're gonna have weeds
growing up in the fence line. So any, anything permanent will
will start to degrade. And so looking at the, the
animal model, you know, because of convenience and and profit,
the, the, there's decisions thatare made that these animals live

(05:52):
in one spot. They, they can, there's very
little waste of food. The feed gets right into the
animal. They grow them up fast and they
get them out. Well, the consequence is that
you have a very unhealthy animalgetting fed a horrible diet on
the cow side of things. You have these animals in a feed

(06:12):
lot. So all, all cows were fed grass
in in their lifetime. OK.
A cow's life consists of cow calf operations, which is the
Mamas and the babies living on agrass area, you know, open
plains at the these ranchers have and then they sell the
calves off to a feed lot. The feed lot takes those calves

(06:36):
at around a year or so old, and then they feed them a diet of
any and all plant byproducts that you could think of.
I've seen almond holes. I've seen spent bread, so moldy
bread that has, you know, passedits expiration date.

(06:57):
They put that in there. I've seen, you know, brewer's
yeast. I've seen just just man so many
different things that you would you would not think I I actually
have. This is so gross.
I have an article from University of Arkansas that they
did a study on looking at the the protein content for dietary

(07:22):
consumption of cows on chicken manure, and they said it was an
excellent source of protein for the cows.
So, you know, I'm painting that picture of those chickens in
that house. After the chickens are gone,
they come and they scrape all that crap out of there, put it
in a truck, take it over to the feed lot where the cows are,

(07:44):
coat it in molasses. So it's actually palatable
because a cow's not going to eatchicken poop.
And they mix it in with their, their ration, their TMR and
they, they feed it to the cows. And so, yeah, there's a lot of
protein in chicken poop that earthworms should be eating, not

(08:04):
a cow. And so, you know, before I was
like a snob and would eat meat that wasn't my own.
I, I, I feel like I tasted it attimes.
I'm like, oh, what is it? I mean, you taste this like foul
tasting, you know, meat. And there's, there's just a, a

(08:26):
lot of that. But the cow.
So, you know, to continue that life of that cow, they, they sit
in there from about a year old and they feed them corn, soy and
every, you know, byproduct, evenanimal byproduct to that, that
cow, it grows up super fast. You know, it's basically getting

(08:48):
a diet of McDonald's, you know, for a human comparison.
So it's, it's very unhealthy andpropped up because of the, the
living conditions. They, these, these things are
typically about, you know, ankledeep, knee deep in their own
feces and urine. And so they got to give them

(09:09):
antibiotics. So they either medicate that in
the feed or they'll, you know, inject them and, and so that
just said, you know, prop their their immune system up to where
they're not dying from disease and then they go to to go to get
processed. Yeah, this is just, and, and I
was just thinking about like at college.

(09:30):
Like when I'm at college I try and eat like healthy.
So what does that consist of? That consists of me going to the
cafeteria. Yeah.
And all I eat is just chicken and burgers.
And if I'm eating these burgers and they don't taste good,
they're just like, this is the best option out of like the
pizza chicken Nuggets and which you've told me stuff about
chicken Nuggets and how they like make that, which is really

(09:51):
gross. And it's just like foam cream
thing, right? Well then.
And then they have meat glue. Too, Which is another goodie.
Yeah, no, it's it the whole thing and and even that they're
getting fed these, these like corn and whatever you're saying,
soy that are sprayed in these pesticides, which kind of leaves
me. What I wanted to talk to you
next about is that like in the Make America Healthy Again

(10:12):
movement that RFK is, is behind,they're pushing for a shift to
from this like conventional farming.
I don't like that. It's just kind of the farming,
that is how. Industrial.
Yeah, industrial farming, they're, they're trying to
change that over to this regenerative farming, which is
what you do, and to reduce, if not completely get rid of

(10:35):
pesticide use. And some people say that, like,
getting rid of that pesticide use ignores modern evidence that
pesticides like glyphosate are less toxic than what we used to
use, like Roundup and stuff. And I kind of wanted to get your
take on this. When it comes to pesticides,
what what does pesticides do to the land?

(10:56):
Are pesticides still safe to usein farming, or should we
completely remove them? Yeah.
I kind of feel like, well, it, it, it's like this, right?
Like I OK, I, I think pesticidesare a tool in the toolbox.

(11:16):
So As for banning them, I mean, some should be like there's some
horrible, horrible pesticides. What I find almost comical is
these villainization of certain specific pesticides, you know,
like glyphosate's the the bad one.
There's it's used one of them. It's one of the most used

(11:37):
pesticides in the world and especially here.
And but it's definitely not, it's definitely not the worst a
pesticide that that that could be sprayed.
I mean I don't you probably, youmay not even know this, but DDT

(11:58):
was used heavily post World War 2 to fight off insects and a lot
of people that grew up in that generation remember them driving
down the roads and spraying DDT all over the yards to to
eliminate mosquitoes and and everything else.

(12:19):
Well, Rachel Carson did her workfinding out that DDT moved up
the food chain, you know, got into the mosquito.
The mosquito went into and laid his eggs in, in the pond.
The fish ate the pond. The the bald eagle ate the fish
and then that DDT accumulated over up the food chain to where

(12:43):
the eagles win all that. You know, they're, they're,
they're eating all these fish with DDT in them that ended up
making their eggs, their the, the shell of their eggs so soft
that when they went to go sit onthem, they would crack them.
And so she traced that back fromdropping eagle population

(13:08):
because they couldn't, you know,raise, raise a, a hatch of, of
chicks. She figured out that it was DDT
sprayed on the insects that moved through the food chain.
So, so those are, those are likesome really bad ones.
I mean, gosh, we, we still spray24-D.

(13:28):
That's, that's a very toxic, toxic herbicide that you can
spray on a field and it kills everything except for grasses.
OK, so any broad leaf plants, itkills that, but grasses aren't
affected by it. They have a different mechanism

(13:49):
in there. And two 4D was one of the two
ingredients in Agent Orange sprayed in Vietnam.
The the bad, the, the the bad player in in that cocktail of of
herbicide was 245 T and that wasa really nasty one that created
cleft palates 3 generations out in Vietnamese people.

(14:14):
Nobody talks about that. I mean, so like, you know, yeah,
we shouldn't have these things, you know, all of these.
Yeah, there's, there's a lot of,like I said, villainization of
some of these these herbicides. But you know, there's some
really bad players and some thatare, are not as bad, but but

(14:39):
definitely have consequences. I mean, we're seeing glyphosate
in everything now. It's it's testing, you know, in
in most crops because of its it's over usage.
And that one is a broad spectrum.
You sprayed on anything and it and it will kill it.
So. Why, why is it that we have to

(15:01):
use pesticides? That's kind of what I'm, I'm
thinking is like, I hear a lot of farmers who are, are
especially in the news right nowwith the Maha stuff and that the
cutting of the like the USDA cutting funds that like hurt
these food programs. And if they do tighten down on
pesticides, why, why can't we just remove pesticides?
I'm completely ignorant. To this yeah.

(15:23):
So when you when you are growinga specific crop, lots of things
want to eat it. OK, you grow a tomato.
If we're wanting to eat a tomato, there's, you know, 15
other things that want to eat a tomato.
So there's let's break down pesticide to what it is.
It side means kill, pest means apest.

(15:46):
OK, so you want to kill the pest.
So we have herbicide, which is for weeds, plant killer.
We have insecticides, which is insect killer or you know, for
the most part. I mean, some most insecticides
would probably kill spiders and you know, arachnids and other
other things like that. But for the most we could just
say insects. So so an insecticide because

(16:08):
most, most insects are the ones eating, eating the crops.
Aphids, you know, we have fungicide fun fungus killer, you
know, fungus killer. So all these things want to
attack and eat the, the plants, right?
You have aphids, you have, you know, a whole, whole slew of

(16:28):
pests that want to come after, after the, that crop that you're
growing. And so when you have a, a, a, a
crop system, the, the most efficient way of growing that is
by having 11 type of, of plant grown and nothing else in there.

(16:52):
So when you are growing, let's say, you know, green beans or
something, when you're growing green beans, you don't want any
other plants growing in there because then now they're
competing for mineral nutrients in the soil.
They're competing for the, the fertilizers that are put out.

(17:14):
They're feeding, fighting for water and sunlight.
And so, you know, the industrial, the, the industrial
food system wants only that one crop.
And you know, if, if mice came in or rabbits came in to try and

(17:35):
eat the green beans, you want toget, get rid of those.
It's like, you know, getting at your, at your bottom dollar,
right. If you have aphids coming in,
you're spraying for aphids. So there, there are, there are
definitely usage for pesticides,but it's the, I think it's the
over usage that is a key. And one thing that's not talked

(17:58):
about is, is the usage of pesticides in USDA organic
crops. So a lot of people will think,
oh, no, I buy organic. It's not.
I've had people at the farmer's market like they go, oh, no, I,
I, I, I, you know, I, I buy organic so I don't have any

(18:20):
pesticides. It's like, that's absolutely not
true. Wait, so you're saying that
organic, certified organic stuffcan't have pesticides?
No, it's it almost guaranteed issprayed with pesticides and let
me differentiate differentiate between the two.
There are organic derived pesticides and synthetic derived

(18:40):
pesticides. So synthetic is the typical bad,
bad character, right? The the the villain in this
organic derived pesticides are approved under USDA organic
standards that can be sprayed onon a, on a crop.

(19:04):
So you know, some of them are derived for for instance, you
could put for either tomatoes oryou know, corn.
One thing that's what's sprayed is, is Bacillus thuringensis.
So this is a, a bacterium that is sprayed on the plants.

(19:27):
The either tomato, tomato bull worm or the it's, it's different
on what it's the same moth Caterpillar that that eats this,
but it's called a different namebased on the crop that it's
eating. So there's a tomato ear or
sorry, corn ear worm and the tomato bull worm.

(19:51):
So the same thing as just eatingthe different thing.
But that when anything in the butterfly family, which your
moths butterflies, so all your caterpillars when they eat that
Bacillus thuringiensis that goesinto their cut, they can't
digest it. It kills them.
OK, so that is a pesticide that is used in in organic grown

(20:15):
crops. There's also, you know, other
things. There's a lot I mean.
To get into like everything that's that's used would take a
long time, but they're just to generalize it.
Yes, organic crops that you see are absolutely sprayed.
There are very few exceptions where where it's not really

(20:37):
necessary, but for the most partorganic is sprayed, but it's a
inorganic derived. The word organic means carbon in
there. If if it's synthetic, there's no
carbon attached to the molecule.So, so there are, there are,
yeah, organic pesticides that are used.

(21:02):
That's great. I didn't know that.
Yeah. I mean the apple, the organic
apple, Who doesn't want to eat that?
There's birds that want to eat it.
There's worms, let me say worms,cat caterpillars, you know,
there a lot, a lot of different things want to eat that apple at
all stages of its growth too. Thrips, thrips come in and they

(21:26):
nip at the edge of this, you know, you know, tiny infant size
apple when it right after it gets pollinated from, you know,
the bees, it comes in and it'll nip at that.
And then there's that scarring on the apple.
Well, people are afraid of the scarring.
And so they, you know, oh, I don't want that apple, right.

(21:48):
So what we got to get rid of thethrips.
OK, so tiny little insect. But yeah, so you, you do.
I mean, people want, you know, they don't want scarred up fruit
and they don't want, you know, it's.
Like it is kind of, yeah. There's this, I, I get ads on
YouTube sometimes for this food brand where they sell like the

(22:08):
visually like damaged foods or like if they, they have a mess
of it. Yeah.
And they sell that, that food and, and it's the same food.
It does the same thing for, but it just visually doesn't look
the way you want to. Well, yes, but like when you buy
it in an apple, you don't want to be like, there's a, you know,
Caterpillar so that, you know, now you're going to the grocery

(22:30):
store asking for a refund, and then they're sending that bill
to the farmer saying, hey, you got worms in your apples, right.
So like people, yeah, people don't want that in their food.
It's it, it, is it, it, it is a I definitely, like I said,
everything wants to eat what we want to eat, so.

(22:52):
It's a hard, it's a hard balanceto find.
Do you think it is a balance that we can find with making
like can you do farming specifically plant farming?
Because I know you do animal farming without pesticides.
So is there a way to do plant farming in a way where we are

(23:12):
removing pesticides, but it's also efficient.
It's also we're not running intoproblems where there's worms in
your apples and you're, you're having these like kind of
systemic problems where it everything has to get rolled
back. I think in plantsite is a lot
more difficult. Yeah, on, on scale, like I don't

(23:34):
think, you know, you have a 25 acre, 50 acre plot of
blueberries. Like I don't think you're going
out there and hand picking, you know, or, or not hand, but, but
like hand squishing aphids or something.
You know, the there's, I think on the plant side of things,
it's a lot more difficult on theanimal side of things.

(23:56):
I mean, from just personal experience.
So we don't do any synthetics, no antibiotics, no hormones, no,
no vaccines even that is allowed.
Inorganic, we can get into that,but.
Yeah, what does that do to an animal?
Well, so vaccines are allowed incertified organic meat.

(24:20):
We don't do that, especially with the the big push of now
mRNA, I don't want anything to do with that.
So we don't do, we don't do any,any vaccination.
What is the reason for that? For the vaccine, not for not.
Doing a vaccine. I don't want any.
I want just that animal. Our customers are demanding that
animal know their inputs. So with our cows, a good example

(24:48):
is pink eye. Well, there's a couple things.
You can vaccinate for it. We're not doing that.
And if they get pink eye, pink eye is a, I believe it's
bacteria that is transferred from flies.
So flies go into one that has it, you know, it's like drinking
out of their, the, their tears or whatever and going in to get

(25:09):
fluid and then transferring it to another cow.
And it can spread pretty fast. It's pretty contagious.
And so, so the quick, easy, convenient thing to do would
take that animal in and there's a device called a headlock or a
squeeze. It's a device where the animals

(25:31):
go in, there's two metal gates that press on their neck so they
can't move. And you can work the animals,
you can do preg checks, you can do shots, you can work on them
without getting trampled. And they, they're safe, you're
safe. So the, the quick and easy thing
to do would to be go to, to go and get an antibiotic and give

(25:53):
them a, a shot that cost you a buck and send them on their way.
OK, Take you 20 minutes, right? Run that animal through, give it
the shot and it's good to go. We don't do that.
We don't want antibiotics in ouranywhere in our products.
And So what we do when it's an animal that is going to be

(26:14):
processed for meat is that we take that animal for 14 days.
It takes to run that animal through every single day, put
that animal through the the headgate lock, lock that lock them
in, open their eye and spray colloidal silver, which is
antibacterial that. Probably cost more than. 10 it

(26:36):
costs a ton. It's like $50.00 for a little
jar. And so spray that in their eye
for 14 days, run them through, you know, every single day.
And we've had it to where they're, we've gotten 5 or 6 of
them with that. And so it's 14 times longer.
So you, the convenience thing, right?
If you're doing that at scale, that would be a lot.

(26:58):
Let's say you had, you know, 1000 head and you had that same
percentage, you know, 10% or so of, of your herd, that's 100
every day. That would take you a long time.
So now you can start seeing why when, when these are done at
scale, it would be very difficult to do it with our

(27:18):
method. But but that's the price.
And people will say, like, you know, why does that type of meat
cost more? Because it took me 14 times
longer to do that versus, you know, just give them a needle
and, and jabbing them and, and send them on their way.

(27:39):
So it's worth it to me. I don't ever want my family
eating that. And so I I send that out to my
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Let's get back into the episode.This makes me wonder about like
the affordability of these healthy foods 'cause it I I was
talking to one of my friends theother night and she was like, I,
I don't think I could eat healthy.
She's a college student, broke college student, just like me.

(28:41):
And, and I was saying, I even talking about my dad.
My dad was had the debt of goingthrough school as a doctor.
So he had that debt on his back.He had two kids by age 20, what,
23, something like that. And he was renting a, a, a place
for his family to live while he's trying to start his own

(29:02):
business. He always prioritized healthy
foods. That was something that he
prioritized. He wasn't prioritizing going out
and like, 'cause dude, I work ata restaurant, people will drop
$60.00 or 4 margaritas and, and,and they're, they're probably
making the same amount of money that my dad was making at the
time. He's he wasn't doing that.
He prioritized health. So I do think it's kind of BS

(29:24):
for people to say like, oh, I can't.
I like there is a level of like yes.
Well, there's there's different economic levels. 100% but like
for the average person, I feel like if you prioritize it, it
doesn't mean like you're going to get like the A2 dairy and
you're going to be able to afford like maybe even your
level of meat. But there are probably people

(29:44):
who make a lower level income who are still buying from you
and they're doing that because they prioritize that.
It's what are you going to prioritize and care about?
Like even if you want to, you can remove gluten and eat more
meat. That's something that you can do
that's a healthier step in a, ina healthier direction.
You can try and get. I mean I don't even know if you
should now after hearing what you said get organic like

(30:06):
vegetables and stuff, but. Yes, always get organic OK
vegetables I it's no synthetics are the bad guys.
OK I wanted to to make sure thateveryone knew that there are
still pesticides sprayed on it. They're organic derived
typically they're plant extracts.
Got it. OK.
So yes, always for buying anything I would say always lean

(30:30):
towards organic got it. It's, it's the baseline for, you
know, for not for eliminating toxins for everybody.
But yeah, I mean, I think you bring up a good point with the,
the cost side of things. When when my wife was, we were

(30:51):
going to school together, 60% ofour income went to food.
Obviously we're making very little amount when we're going
to school, but 60% of your income.
And typically that's like, you know, a mortgage or something,
right? We're spending that much just on
food because that was what we prioritize.

(31:15):
And so, yeah, I think, you know,I another thing I, I think we
should bring up too is that, youknow, the girl you're saying,
oh, I can't afford to eat this way.
Well, the The thing is, is that because of government subsidies,
that that item, that chicken, that cow, because they're fed

(31:39):
grain, looks as if it is cheaper.
But what it is, is the taxpayer is forking over the bill to pay
farmers to grow crop, to grow these crops.
And we have so much excess of that crop that we have to figure

(32:01):
out how do we get rid of it? Well, it's cheap, right, 'cause
the taxpayer's always going to pay for it.
And so that goes, well, let's feed it to cows, OK, Let's feed
corn and soy to cows, even though they've never in, in
their, you know, in, in their, the history of, of the bovine

(32:21):
has ever eaten those items. And so, so that's where a lot of
the price deception comes from is because these things are
eating a subsidized commodity. So corn and soy is not a free

(32:44):
market. The, the price of corn and soy.
If, if corn and soy is like, youknow, $6 a bushel, OK, and then
it drops down, it will never drop below a, a certain minimum
because then the government, they'll get over and they'll,
they'll take the subsidy. So it a, a true free market

(33:05):
would be like apples, you know, let's say honey crisp apple.
They're like a dollar, $52.00 anapple, OK.
The government, the people are not paying to subsidized apples.
So the true price of the apple is that price.
When you go and buy corn or anything, any ingredients of

(33:27):
corn or soy, all of that is, is in it, it is incorrectly
displayed because it's not part of the true, true market, right?
So corn may be $0.10 a bushel, but we would never know because,
you know, the, the government subsidies come in and say that

(33:47):
maybe it pays $3 a bushel, right?
So, so it's not a true free market.
So that beef, let's say, you know, if, if a farmer is, is
growing and they only get $0.10 per bushel versus, you know, 3,
they're like, well, I'm not growing corn anymore.
This is ridiculous. I can't make any money off of

(34:08):
this. Well, then where does that, that
excess goes away, which means they're not feeding it to cows,
which means cows then eat the diet they were, they were
created for, which is grass and pasture.
And then you add the true cost of, of that animal to finish it.
A A a 100% grass fed finished pasture raised beef, it takes at

(34:31):
least 24 months of growth time for that, that animal to be, you
know, from birth to to slaughter, 24 months for that
animal to be ready to, to go to slaughter.
When you feed it in a feed lot, you're talking, some of them do
16 to 18 months. So you can see, you know, we're
like 6 to 8 months of, of a difference of feeding that

(34:54):
animal longer, taking care of that animal longer.
And, and it's all because you trickle it down, it's to the
government subsidies. So that is manipulating it and
it's deceiving people to think that, you know, Oh my, my
noodles are, are my pasta is, isit's cheap.

(35:15):
Well, no, it's not. It's only cheap because of the
back of the taxpayer. Yeah, you've been paying for it
like you've been paying for it through your taxes, and that is
why it's cheaper. Interesting.
Yeah, what I'm seeing, a patternthat I'm seeing in what you're
saying when it comes to the conventional farming industry is

(35:36):
they're sacrificing good for easy.
It's, it's, instead of making your like easy, is, is it's,
it's more efficient, it's better, it's faster.
You can feed more people 'cause there are a lot of mouths to
feed versus this slower process where you're sacrificing a lot
of things like what, what you'redoing with your cows that takes

(35:57):
14 times as long to fix pink eye.
That's not efficient, that's notscalable.
And, and, and that's not profitable.
It's not. Well, OK, it is profitable, but
it is. Because we're reflecting the
true cost of that of beef. Yeah, but it's not profitable
for the masses. And that's kind of it's hard for
the masses to feed. I disagree.

(36:21):
You don't think I in in college,I took this it was like a
climate change class and everyone was like, you know, we
had to do this project at the end of the the quarter.
It was like all these solutions to fix climate change, right?
And everyone's like, oh, we needto have these machines that like

(36:42):
pull carbon out of the atmosphere, right?
My thought, so I had this for a long time and I did the math and
it's pretty simple math, but youcan take, you can take the
acreage of corn and soy grown annually.
And you if you were to convert this, it's, it's seriously such

(37:02):
a hypothetical because it's likeinterwoven into like, you know,
generations deep of farmers thatwould never change.
But if you took that acreage of corn and soy that has grown
throughout the whole Midwest, it's millions and millions, 10s
of millions of acres. And you take that and you
convert that back into the grasses that that were

(37:26):
originally grown there, which weknew housed, not housed it.
It provided forage for anywhere estimated from 40 to 60 million
bison. Now, these bison were unmanaged
by humans. They were only managed through
the movement of, you know, wolves and you know, you know,

(37:49):
mountain lions and stuff like that, predators of of the plain,
the Great Plains. But if you, if so, when an
animal is unmanaged like that, it is, you can't, you can't
maximize the, the production outof it.
When it's managed like ours. We, we maximize incredibly how

(38:10):
many animals we can put on our land.
If I just let the cows go and didn't do rotational grazing,
the cows would eat it all and wewould, we'd probably have half
of our herd. OK.
So the way we managed keeping them constantly moved, we could,
we could maximize the production.
And so I, I, I said that if we converted our corn and soy and

(38:33):
I, I, I took out the, the amountof acreage that was used for
poultry or pork production, you know, took all, all the animal
consumption out of it. Just what's used for ethanol,
which is so absurd. Growing corn to, to make

(38:56):
ethanol, take it took the ethanol out of production and
the seed side of things, you know, making your chips and
whatnot, you converted that. You could, you could take that
and convert that into an animal production that could grow
easily as much beef as we do annually and probably, probably

(39:16):
even more so. But the, the whole idea is that
like, oh, it's not scalable. It absolutely is scalable to the
masses. It would be, you know, do we
want to make the change to wherewe're not to, you know, to where

(39:36):
to where this is, this is the, the production instead of,
instead of growing, you know, corn or soy.
So, so it, I, I do believe it isscalable.
Yeah. We're not having the, the key is
not having, you know, 10 corporate, 10 corporate, you
know, industries, companies thatare running everything.

(39:59):
The key is to have thousands of more farmers doing it the way
we're doing it. And that is when, you know, if
everyone's doing it, then that would that would drive prices
even lower because of competition, right?
So decentralizing the industry and making it more about the,
the actual farmers, not the farmers who are subsidized by

(40:21):
these big BLOB companies that are, are kind of owning all of
the food industry and trying to maximize speed and, and what's
the most, the fastest way to getfood to your mouth?
And also I think that there's a level of it is these companies,
probably, this is like tinfoil hat knee, probably also own a

(40:44):
little bit of pharmaceuticals. And if you're giving people
foods that are unhealthy for youand are going to cause health
issues and you feel sick or you have these health issues and you
need to go buy some pharmaceuticals.
And then you're going and buyingthose pharmaceuticals that
aren't actually getting to the root cause of your your health,
health issues. You're going to end up having to
keep buying these pharmaceuticalproducts over and over again.

(41:06):
And they're just literally profiting off of your sickness
from birth until death. Yeah.
And they're keeping you just at the level of health where you
can be a good enough worker and just just bad enough health
where you keep needed buying their pharmaceuticals.
Yeah. And you're also eating their
food still. So that's like a completely
separate issue from what we're. Talking.
It's not. It's not a tinfoil head because

(41:27):
literally Monsanto was bought byBayer, right?
Bear makes both pharmaceuticals and now they're making Roundup,
the glyphosate, the, the, the, the villainized the most popular
herbicide in the world right now.
And, and they also are the ones producing the seeds.

(41:49):
And so my thought is if you eliminated the subsidies, yeah,
you're going to piss a lot of farmers off because they've
invested a ton of well, you're going to invest, you're going to
piss off the industrial, you know, complex the, the, the
well, the, the, the entire, the entire system's kind of rigged

(42:10):
against them. You, you have to have millions
of dollars of, of equipment wrapped up into, into growing
these, these crops. I mean, you have to have a huge
combine, massive spray rig, all these things are, you know,
$800,000 each for some of these pieces of equipment.

(42:33):
So they have millions of dollarswrapped up into that.
You're going to, you're going toreally upset a lot of people, a
lot of, you know, small farmers by, by doing that.
But if you took the subsidies away, 1 you would get a true
free market. And secondly, it would no longer
be profitable for the Monsanto's, the seed companies

(42:55):
to to make these seeds because they know that they have a
guaranteed purchase of these seeds because the farmer is
coming to them every year buyingseed.
And when they buy that seed, they're going to buy Roundup,
you know, glyphosate. OK.

(43:17):
And so it's, it's again, when you funnel it down, it's like,
oh, it's because it's subsidizedthat the, that the companies
know it's like like Pepsi, why do they use high fructose corn
syrup? Because the taxpayers going to
pay for it. So it's always going to be
cheap. Pepsi's going out of Coca-Cola,

(43:37):
they're going out of business orthey're going to use cane sugar
when you get rid of the subsidies, because now maybe
corn is way more expensive to grow than sugar cane.
It's, it's all, it's all manipulated.
And so you eliminate that and the seed companies now they lose

(43:58):
their grip on on the market because they can't not
everyone's going to grow that. So it yeah, it, it boils down to
a lot of that. It's it's the.
There's a lot of interconnected.It's interconnected with overall
these, these big corporations that they kind of own everything

(44:22):
and they they are all interconnected.
And if you take a couple core pieces away, they go away and
they stop controlling a lot of things.
And it decentralizes the power more to people less than this,
like kind of like 1% type of like billionaire, gazillionaire

(44:42):
type people. I mean, I don't have any problem
with billionaires either. But you know, a lot of these
guys, if if you're making it on,on government subsidies, then
you know, that's where I have anissue.
Yeah, I want to kind of talk about the the farmers because
right now in the recent news with these, these cuts that USDA

(45:06):
and HHS is doing, there's a lot of like pushback and and and
rage towards towards these theseI think are progressions towards
American health. There was $1.13 billion slash
from local food programs and that has hit farmers really
hard. Has that affected?
With what Huh. With the the slashes?

(45:28):
Yeah, through Snap. Through snap, OK and I think
other things I I don't have the full spreadsheet up right now,
but. It's only going to make corn
cheaper because now there's moreexcess.
And I also, I, I, when I was at the, the White House the other
day, they were talking about howthey are making, going to work

(45:48):
on making school lunches healthier.
So I assume that that also has to do with it, that they're not
going to be buying buying these crappy products anymore and
they're not going to be feeding.It to kids.
I'm, I'm curious if it's, it's the farmers that are, if this is
just like, yeah, 'cause the farmers, yeah.
Well, you could say, you could say you know these massive, I've

(46:12):
been to these farms up up in Central California and they have
40,000 acres and they grow all the tomatoes for hunts.
OK, it is dead zone. I'm talk.
I've never seen anything like it.
I've been to deserts that look greener than this.
They are complete dead zones. Even the canals where the the

(46:35):
drainage water goes into there'sno vegetation anywhere in there.
They nuke it. It's bare soil.
And, you know, the the CEO couldbe pissed off that, you know,
whatever that, oh, we're cuttingthis.
I'm not saying that this is, butI'm saying these type of giant

(46:57):
corporations could be, they could say, well, that's the
farmer, right? No, he's not a farmer.
He's a CEO. Yeah.
I mean, what's the CEO of a farming company?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
So like, get out of here. You're not that.
That's ridiculous. Yeah, I, I don't know.
I mean, I, I think most farmers grow, grow the crops that they

(47:21):
grow, you know, one, they're just trying to make a living and
they're growing it because there's a demand.
If there's no demand, it goes away.
So like, I mean, and, and to say, like, Oh well, we should
continue to, to poison people, you know, with like subsidizing,

(47:43):
you know, with government assisted with lunches or SNAP or
whatever that we should be having soda in there.
I think that's ridiculous. Like it's, it's only
perpetuating the, the issue in America of, of, you know, our,
our, our health. So our, our health is in great

(48:04):
decline. And I think that, you know, to,
to step in and say, yeah, we're not going to do this anymore.
I think that that's a perfect amount of intervention that I
would want from the government. Like if if we're if the
government creates a program that subsidized people for, for

(48:24):
food, great, OK, people aren't starving.
But then you're not going to you're not going to give them
things are actually poisoning them.
These high sugar Twinkies like get out of here.
That's not that's not the point of this thing.
That's not sustenance. Like, yeah, subsidized the
steaks, the ground beef, you know, you know, veggies.

(48:47):
Yeah. And I think if you do shift it
that way, which would be really hard 'cause there's a lot of
money behind these kind of unhealthy foods.
If you did subsidized what you're saying like these, if you
subsidized the things that go into regenerative farming,
right, that would be a change inAmerican health, a change in the
farming industry, a change in everything.
And I think that like, what do you think the only the reason is

(49:11):
that that isn't happening. Well, one, it's not, I mean,
there's not a lobbyist group. So that that's, that's a big,
big portion of it. I mean, lobbyists go in, big
corporations pay lobbyists to goin and persuade, you know,
legislators to steer laws in a certain way.

(49:32):
But yeah, like if you had to subsidize, then yeah.
Why aren't you? Why aren't you incentivizing
things that are actually healingthe planet and feeding people
that are healing to their bodies?
Yeah, it is interesting to see. I my new favorite thing to do is
to watch the, the HHS hearings where he'll go and like pitch

(49:54):
the budget and you'll see like quite literally, there's like a
couple outliers on, on the left.They, they all have the same
talking points and they all talkabout the same things.
And they're like, oh, the farmers, oh, the farmers, oh the
farmers. And then there was this one lady
on the right. She was the only lady I had
heard. And she started talking about
like, oh, we need to keep glyphosate in the thing.

(50:14):
And I'm like, it's so weird thatlike everyone is saying these
certain things and then there are other people who are like,
yes, we should totally like decentralized farming and make
it regenerative farming a more important thing.
And I'm happy that there's like senators that are saying that
stuff. But it is seeing these people
that are, they seem compromised by big corporations and these

(50:35):
lobbyists are going to them and saying you need to like push
back against this so that way wedon't disappear.
So that way you like this, our, our money is not gone anymore
and our power doesn't dissipate because no one wants to lose
their power. If you decentralize things, you
lose your power. If if things are centralized and
you're the center of the power, you want to keep that.

(50:56):
Yeah, and I, I don't know that it's all nefarious too.
I mean, I think a lot of them, alot of them are just ignorant.
They're in they're in governmentfor a reason.
They're non producers. Government doesn't produce
anything. Yeah, they they're not
manufacturing. They don't do anything but

(51:17):
create laws that oppress. So government's not out there
building community, building trust, that's all with the
people. I mean, that's not the point.
That's not the point of where of, of government.
The government was for, you know, to to serve.
And it's no longer a service. It's serving to the corporate

(51:40):
elites. That's that's where government
has become now. And so they could say, well,
yeah, this is my constituent. Yeah, you're 1 gigantic, very
rich constituent, you know, so but yeah, government, government
does not produce anything. And so some of these people, you

(52:01):
look at these people, they have no experience in, in real life.
They've never worked a real job.Most of these people have never
worked a real job. And so he's like, you know,
career politicians, they're justreally good at speaking.
So, so yeah, I some of it, I don't know that if it's like
completely nefarious, I just think they're out of touch with

(52:25):
what, you know, what's happeningto the working, working class of
people. Have these, has this like these
funding cuts, have they affectedthe way that you operate in any
way as a farmer? Do they affect you whatsoever?
One thing Well, not really because so when we we buy feed

(52:51):
for our pigs and our chickens, those are omnivores, which means
they can eat both plants and animals.
And so they have a gut that can eat eat grain.
A cow is does not is not supposed to eat grain.

(53:11):
So our cows don't ever eat any grain, but our pigs and our and
our poultry do. And so, so we buy feed for them
and, and grow them and, and finish them, you know.
But the feed that we buy is, is a certified organic feed.

(53:32):
So we buy USDA organic. And that is the reason we do
that is to is to give the greatest potential for no
synthetics. OK, sometimes, you know,
sometimes you, you there is a manipulation or things can

(53:54):
happen where synthetics can end up in batches of certified
organic. And so but our whole, our whole
thing is, is no synthetics. And so that's why we buy
certified organic. Now that feed cost me about
double the cost if I were to buyconventional grown, you know,

(54:19):
guaranteed sprayed with with with glyphosate and they're
round up ready. So it's it's a GMO crop.
OK. So, so it's it's double the cost
now when when like the tariffs and stuff like that, because we

(54:39):
are certified organic, we are actually the true cost of that
grain, OK, Because they're not they're not ever selling that
organic grain to the subsidy programs, OK.

(54:59):
So because there's a higher premium for that, there's higher
losses with organic crops. And so we, you know, it, it, it
is not as effective. It's, it's really more
reflective of the true cost of, of grain.
And so, so it does not, we're, we're not affected too much by

(55:24):
it because it's, it's really buffered by the true free
market. Does that make sense?
What is the importance of knowing where your food comes
from? I think that's probably the
main, probably the most number #1 factor that every consumer

(55:44):
really, really should value and,and take priority on.
You know, knowing where your food comes from is, is really
only way to assure that it's up to the the standards that you
want. So that that's what we tell

(56:05):
everyone. Know, know your farmer, get to
know, you know who's growing your food and trust that person.
I always say it's like, come here, meet us.
We always, you know, new time customers come and meet me,
judge my character, you know, and you know, if you feel like,
yes, he's a trustworthy person, then I want to be your farmer.

(56:27):
Because there's so many times too that I've even seen, I've
even seen some farmers where it's like it's they're
manipulating the customer just because they're a small producer
and it's it's wrong. But that's why I feel like, you
know, I, I feel like I'm a kind of the gatekeeper to my

(56:50):
customers food that I, I'm, I mean, you know, ma'am, I'm a
black or white type of person. I'm an all or nothing.
So it's not, Oh, well, yeah, we can, you know, this cow is
almost ready to go to slaughter.Like, oh, we'll just give him a
little antibiotics. Like I, I just can't do that.
It, it would, it would kill my conscious.

(57:12):
And so, so, yeah, knowing, knowing where your food comes
from. And again, breaking that
convenience, it's kind of the, the theme of this, this
discussion here is that the convenience of going to the
grocery store, you don't know who your farmer is, go to go to

(57:32):
a farmer's market and, and talk to the people there and then
say, Hey, can I come on a tour? If they're like, no, I don't
want this, Maybe, maybe they gotsomething to hide.
So we, you know, we have, we have a pretty good network of,
of small organic producers around us and we bounce

(57:53):
customers back and forth. I have, we grow beef and I have
a, a guy 10 minutes down the road has the same exact
standards for beef. And when we're out, I say, hey,
yeah, go to go over there and check them out.
You know, 'cause I, I trust thatguy's character and know that he
won't compromise on that, but itis, it's probably the most

(58:14):
important thing. Yeah, maybe this is a a crazy
idea, but like, we trust people.We don't trust people with a lot
of things. Like you wouldn't let just
anybody watch your kids. You wouldn't let just anybody
like house sit for you, but you'll let just some random
person that you don't know at all take care of the animals

(58:36):
that are going to become your food that are going to fuel your
body, that are going to be fueling your kids body that are
going to be like these are thesecan cause like.
You're consuming every day. You're consuming this every
single day and like you even care what shows your kids watch,
but you don't care what literally is going to be giving
them like the nutrients and vitamins and sustenance that

(58:59):
their body needs to live every single day.
We just don't care about that. But we care about I care that
they don't watch APG 13 movie, right, Right.
That's like stupid. It's so.
Dumb. Yeah.
And it seems it's a bit backwards.
Yeah, it seems. Contradictory.
It's almost maybe because of so much governmental oversight that

(59:20):
it's almost like people can be like, oh, somebody else is
taking care of it for me. And it's also, I think people
just kind of don't question a lot of things because it's just
something that like if you're questioning everything, that's a
very anxious, stressful life in the beginning because you have
all these things that you're questioning.
And if you have these things that you're like, it's OK,
that's taken care of for me. It's like too much for somebody

(59:41):
to think about. Plus there's a huge, gosh, I
mean, I've been in this for almost 15 years and there's
still things that I learned, youknow, so there's so there's so
much involved in the production of food at so many different

(01:00:03):
levels. It's, it's crazy.
So it, it is like, you know, looking at 1000 page book that
you'd have to read, you know, ina day.
And they're like, I don't know how I'm ever going to do this.
I won't even do it right. It's like so daunting of a task
for people to even start that they just won't ever, ever start
it. So.

(01:00:24):
I kind of want to talk about 'cause you, you, you just farm
animals, correct? No plants.
Or I mean we do not for for salebut.
For people, there's people who are are vegan, they're
vegetarian, they avoid meat. I, I kind of want to address
like the common fears with you, someone who you care about your

(01:00:45):
animals, you care about giving them like the purest, best form
of life up until they get slaughtered.
And that's something that some people have a problem with.
So I kind of want to go into like the fears and have you
maybe like calm or still some ofthe fears in people who 'cause
there are different reasons of for people being vegan.

(01:01:05):
Sometimes it's a diet thing. Sometimes it's they don't want
animals killed. They think that they should
like, they should just be able to like whatever.
I can live their little cow life.
I don't know. But like, what happens to it?
If you just left a cow, you didn't kill it, you didn't milk
it, you didn't do nothing to it.You just left it there.
What would happen to that cow? Well, so the, the life of that

(01:01:27):
cow, yeah, let's, let's bring upthe bison 'cause that's a, it's
a really good comparison that bison, the the death of that
bison either ended by starvation, injury, or in the
jaws of some type of predator. They were in.

(01:01:49):
So you're saying that they were created to be killed in a way?
All life is. Well, yeah, but so specifically
they're created. To be consumed by something.
Well, yes, but you could. You could make that argument
that we are too. Fair enough.
I mean, earthworms. Unless you're pumped up with
formaldehyde at the end. Yeah, we we should.
Yeah, we're supposed to all lifeis supposed to, you know, is

(01:02:12):
supposed to die. And that diet, that death
produces life. And that's that's true in a
physical sense, in a spiritual sense, the idea of, you know,
death being this like horrible thing in nature.
It's not, it's part, it's, it's the, the in chapter of, of that

(01:02:33):
cycle. And so on the vegan side of
things, you know, I, I always kick myself after, but I feel
like I waste time. But I love debate so much that I
engage. But whenever I have farmers
markets and I hand out my card, Oh, we do meat, you know, pastor

(01:02:54):
raise meat and they go, oh, I'm vegetarian and I, I can't help
myself, but I'm always like, oh,I'm curious why?
It's not like argumentative at all.
I'm just very curious. Most of the.
People I, I'm looking forward tothe to the vegan vegetarian
that's like, oh, I can't stand, you know, that, that the food

(01:03:16):
that I eat is causing death 'cause I, I have incredible
argument that I guarantee they have not looked into on that.
But most of the people that thatdo it say, oh, it's healthier.
And I think this like it, it hasto drive from, from a lot of

(01:03:38):
these documentaries that came upjust filled with, I would say
junk science that these things are like, Oh yeah, vegetarian
vegan diet is, is the most healthiest diet.
And, and it's a lot of, you know, it's a lot of gymnastics
to, to work through how they cancome to that conclusion that,

(01:04:02):
you know, a vegan diet is somehow healthier than, you
know, an omnivore or even, you know, like a, like a paleo diet,
paleolithic diet. So, but that's, that's the
majority of what people say. Like, oh, I just feel better.
Like, I'm like, I don't know howthat's possible.
Like you're if you have a diet that that is it's necessary for

(01:04:28):
you to take supplements, then that's not a complete diet.
So, oh, yeah, I'm like, well, how do you address the B12?
Oh, I take a pill. It's like, OK, well, Ding Ding,
Ding. Like isn't that an indicator
that you don't have a complete diet?
You're not getting, you're not getting.
You cannot get the the necessarynutrients, vitamins and a lot of

(01:04:55):
other things that that meat has.You cannot get that in the vegan
diet. It doesn't exist.
For the alternative, I or I guess not the alternative, but
the polar opposite of that for carnivore diet, do you get
everything that you need withoutsupplementation?
I mean, a lot of people aren't doing this, but I think you can.
I think I've heard you can if you're eating like organ meats
and stuff, right? But not a lot of people want to

(01:05:17):
do that because it's kind of a gross like no one wants to go
munch on the heart. Well, Katie, my wife, she, she
took liver, she chopped it up incubes and she swallows them
whole like a pill every day. So they're, they're frozen and
she just pops the liver pill. It's just a cubed, cubed liver.

(01:05:38):
But yeah, carnivore. I mean, it's very new.
I would say if I know it's, it'sit's definitely healed me in I
guess in my health journey. I'm not 100% carnivore, but I'm
definitely a lot more animal based than than plant based.

(01:06:02):
I've kind of kind of shifted towards that.
But carnivore. I would say if you have to pick
between vegan or carnivore. Oh absolutely carnivore.
But I don't know long term if carnivore is the solution.
I think it is for some people. Yeah.
Like I know Jordan Peterson doesreally well on that.

(01:06:23):
Like well. Some people it's like he
completely healed them in some major issues.
So but yeah, I, I, I learn more towards like the a paleo diet.
That's, that's, I mean, I've been off, been off gluten for,
gosh, probably a decade or so. I have, I have a friend, another

(01:06:48):
fear, I guess, when it comes to eating meat.
This is one that I don't hear super often, but he's afraid of
getting things like mad cow disease from eating his meat.
That's what he. Said he says I won't eat meat
because I don't want to get mad cow disease because he can't win
any of the other arguments when it comes to like why?
And some people you just want tobe vegan or vegetarian because
you want to be vegan or vegetarian and that's fine.

(01:07:09):
But don't make up some BS like argument that you want to do it
for other reasons. Then you just want to do it.
Like just do it. If you want to do it, do it.
It's fine. I'm not no one's judging you,
but don't make like a crappy argument and try and gaslight
and everyone into this is the best option for you and that
you're like somewhat how better than thou because you're you're
doing this. It's like a lot of vegans and

(01:07:30):
I'm sure there are outliers. You look like a like they're
like skinny little twigs who will blow away in the wind and
they look like malnourished. Yes, and I'm not I'm there are
probably people who are perfectly healthy and this is
part of their health journey. And for those people,
phenomenal. Yeah, but some people don't look
healthy when they're doing this.And I think I'm like, dude, get
this person a steak. Like eat a freaking.

(01:07:53):
Oh, I've had a theory that that because a vegan diet, I haven't
thought about this, so I'm goingto like on air work my way
through it. So a vegan diet is not a
complete diet. So therefore your brain is not
operating optimally and a typical diet of a vegan needs

(01:08:22):
soy to to, you know, create somefunctionality to it, you know,
with the, with the protein on there.
And so because of the phytoestrogen plant estrogen,
it's a type of estrogen estrogenics, I think that the

(01:08:48):
very diet is creating a blockagein the brain to it is like the
very reason for their decision to not eat meat.
It's almost like, I don't want to say this, but it's like a
like almost like a parasite, right?

(01:09:10):
It's like because it's, it's thebrain is can't, can't make a a
rational decision because of thediet that they're eating is not
optimal for the brain. It's a, it's a wild theory.
I've just, I've I've thought about it.
I'm like, I'm I wonder if there's any validity to it.
Yeah, I don't know if there's any.
It's like a vicious cycle. It's like, I don't eat meat

(01:09:32):
because I can't think about eating meat.
Or that's like a yeah. Terrible, but with the mad cow
thing. OK, so his thing is mad cow bone
meal was was fed to to cows, right?
So they grind up bones, various animals and feed it the cows.
OK, it's like, well, we're processing all these animals.

(01:09:53):
What do we do with all the bonesthat that oh, let's grind them
up. And what they ended up doing was
grinding up cow and feeding it back to the cow.
And when you did that, that that's where Mad Cow came from.
And is that not something that you you?
Can't do that anymore. I mean, now it's completely the
man. It's.
Gone people are literally. Getting mad cow.

(01:10:15):
Yeah, OK. The the last one that I hear
commonly is. Oh, but sorry, I'll just
clarify. We still can do it with feather
meal. So all the feathers that come
from the processing of chicken, you can grind that up and feed
that to a cow. Got it.
Cow's eating feathers. Fantastic.

(01:10:35):
OK, so the the last one that I kind of hear, and maybe you hear
more 'cause you are at those farmers markets and you hear
like, oh, I don't eat that 'cause I'm vegetarian.
But the last one I hear is that animal farming is bad for the
environment and that like it cowfarts.
I this one is silly, but I maybeit's true, but cow farts put a

(01:10:56):
hole in the ozone layer and thatit's, it's bad for the
environment. Can you address?
And that's why they eat a vegan diet, yes.
Yeah. OK.
Because I hear for you like you've talked about how like the
way that you rotate these animals it, it helps the land,
does it not? Yeah, absolutely.
OK. So can you go into yeah, first

(01:11:16):
like addressing that and then showing what it is that that you
do and maybe how it contradicts that?
Yeah, so the the big villain in agriculture right now is is the
cow. The cow does produce methane.
Methane is toxic to the, you know, the ozone layer.

(01:11:43):
But what what they miss is that I'll guarantee that a vegan is
eating rice. OK?
The, the main culprit in methaneemissions is rice production.
Rice produces the, the, the growing of rice produces 40% of

(01:12:07):
the, the methane produced in, inthe agricultural, you know,
scope of, of, of greenhouse gases is 40% of the greenhouse
gases comes from rice production.
And people don't want to talk about that.
And the reason for that is because when you grow rice, you,

(01:12:30):
you, you fill up the rice Paddy and the water literally kills
all the soil, OK? So goes anaerobic, there's no
air, OK. And, and that anaerobic then
emits all the methane in the atmosphere.

(01:12:50):
And so although cows do emit some methane when managed, the
way you, we manage our cows in arotational system that grazes
the plants and allows them to rest.
We, we move our animals every single day.
So it grazes, it nips that, thatthose grasses and then the

(01:13:14):
animals are taken off and moved to a new section.
It is building a soil ecosystem that is optimal.
And in that optimal soil ecosystem you have things that
are called methenotropes, methane consuming organisms, OK.
And so the only way, and I've said this for many years, the

(01:13:38):
only way to reverse greenhouse gases, the big villain is carbon
dioxide. Methane is by doing what we're
doing. You will not ever get any higher
form of carbon sequestration methane, you know, consumption,
but through the soil. And so, you know, people say,

(01:14:02):
well, we got to plant more treesthat a healthy pasture will have
it the stat limit. It's been many years since I
brought this one up. I believe it's it, it sequesters
one ton per acre per year of, ofCO2 in a, in a optimal growing

(01:14:24):
pasture, pasture system. When that ground is opened up
and plowed, all of that carbon goes right back into the
atmosphere. So when you, you say, oh, no, we
need to eat corn, I mean, my, my, my chips and my, my wheat,
you know, noodles for my vegan diet with my soy, whatever soy
burger Patty, right that that isemitting all the carbon back in

(01:14:48):
the atmosphere. But what we're doing, all the
pasture that we have that is trapping it is trapping the CO2
in the soil. And I'll break this down because
this is something that I think gets, it gets too far ahead and
it can, and it can be easily said, you know, and simplified,

(01:15:11):
but plants need they, they convert 3 things and, and make
it sugar. So water and CO2, they take
water and split that into hydrogen, oxygen.
And then they take CO2 and pull that out and take that as C and

(01:15:31):
the carbon and the oxygen. And they combine those together
in and make sugar out of those three things.
Sugar is made-up of hydrogen. It's an arrangement of hydrogen,
carbon and oxygen. And that all comes from the
exhaust of every mammal. Is CO2 OK?

(01:15:56):
You know, we breathe out CO2, webreathe in oxygen.
Well, the waste product for plants is oxygen.
OK? So they have a ton of extra
oxygen that they're emitting outwhen they're converting carbon,
carbon dioxide and water into sugar.
And so they're like, well, how you know, how is the plant?
How is the carbon sort in was stored into the soil?

(01:16:18):
The plant is they're an autotroph, so they make their
own food and they're using the sunlight as its energy source to
convert carbon, carbon dioxide and water into sugar.
And then once they convert that sugar in their leaves using
photosynthesis, it pumps that down into its roots.
And as that cow comes by and it nips the, the grass, it then

(01:16:43):
sloughs off and uses up that sugar to regrow more, more
biomass all along while making more roots.
The more roots we have, the morecarbon is trapped in the soil.
And carbon is, is the key to life.
That's what makes it organic, right?
That carbon molecule, we are carbon based organisms, right?

(01:17:06):
That carbon feeds the soil life.So all the billions and billions
of organisms that live in, in square feet of every square feet
of the, the soil that is the food source for all of that.
There's a this massive ecosystemof organisms living in the soil
and it all comes by that carbon.So this idea that like carbon is

(01:17:31):
this big villain, it is absolutely not true.
We just need more plants, more grass, you know, convert that
that cornfield and the soy fieldinto into pasture and you will
actually sequester more carbon than you could with any other
process, any other plant, anything else pastures the one

(01:17:51):
of the best forms to to sequester carbon.
So that, that completely puts a,a lock on the idea that, you
know, cows are, are the culprit,right.
I will say they have an excellent point for those feed
lot systems, those, those animals that are, you know,

(01:18:13):
ankle deep, knee deep in, in their own manure.
That is a cesspool. There is no ecology there, you
know, consuming that methane andyeah, it, it is, it creates dead
zones. It is it just shows you that
when, when management is the keyreally, you know, you, you, you

(01:18:36):
manage the animal, manage the, the soil and you don't have any
of those, any of those issues. So it's not the the cows or the
meat farming that is bad for theenvironment.
It's the system in which the cows are farmed.
It's it's the way in which the cows are farmed, that is.

(01:18:58):
Not the cow, it's the cow I've heard.
Yeah, and that's so true. And that's fascinating.
Yeah, yeah, so, and, and they, I, I'm, well listen, if
somebody's like oh, I am not eating animals because, you
know, they're crammed in tight areas and they're destroying the
earth. I would 100% agree that the the

(01:19:20):
conventional industrial model isabsolutely destroying the earth,
but it's both things plants and and animals are you know that
that that production of both plant and animal absolutely is,
is, you know, environmentally, you know it, it is absolutely

(01:19:41):
destructive. I see this another pattern of
like this, there's a partnershipbetween the land and the animal
and the farmer partnering with those two things and not being
invasive when it comes to that and kind of sitting and like
you, you recognize that this is the way that things are supposed
to go. Not and it wasn't really a

(01:20:01):
system created by you. It was a system created by by
nature and by God. And this is the way that that
things should go. And I think that what it would
take it's it's funny. It's following these like God
systems that exist. And when we do that and we state
like, like we tune into what theway that this complex.

(01:20:26):
Ecosystem functions. It becomes more efficient for
well-being of of everything, notjust humans, but of animals and
of the ecosystem and of the environment.
Well, and I've always said too, that, you know, like I think the
human body is a triune being. I think there's a triune, you

(01:20:47):
know, system set up here, but you have the animals, the plants
and the humans and all three of those, when managed properly,
you know, you have a healthy animal, healthy plants and
healthy humans. So it's, so it's the key of the
human managing the animals to, to optimally produce plants.

(01:21:10):
So that way, you know, that plant is feeding the animal and,
and right back to it. And they all, they all work
together. But it's the key is that
centerpiece of, of managing is managing the, the, both, both
the, the, the soil and, and the animals optimally.

(01:21:30):
And and you know, we, we, we area huge benefactor of that
health. If you were to compare or try
and sell your way of farming andyour products that come out of

(01:21:50):
the way, your way of farming versus like going to Walmart and
buying chicken, how would you like what are the pros of of
yours versus the the pros of thethe other version?
What are the pros of? Like like buying like I guess

(01:22:11):
explain to people what they're getting when they buy from a
regenerative farmer. So one, you're going to get a
lot more a higher nutrient denseproduct if they are, if they are
truly regenerative, you are going to you're going to have a

(01:22:34):
a way higher nutrient profile. So a lot of plant nutrients our
bodies can't and will never extract, but animals have this
incredible ability to convert a plant that we cannot consume and

(01:22:56):
they have because we've 2 totally different types of
digestive systems. And so a cow can take something
that would probably make us sickand convert that into incredible
fat and and protein. And so plus it's filled with all

(01:23:19):
the micronutrients. So I think, you know, it's the
big buzzword regenerative farming, you know, grass fed,
pasture raised, like all of these things.
I think really, even even thoughmost farmers are like in that
labeling or I think are doing the right thing, I think you

(01:23:39):
know what, what, where is the diversity in the pasture?
If the if the, if the, if you'regetting this incredible plant
diversity, then you can imagine the the difference in in plant
nutrients that that cow is consuming.
That cow is holding on to those nutrients.
So when we partake of that animal, we get to, you know, we

(01:24:02):
get to consume those nutrients. And so, you know, if you have
like 5 different species of plants in your pasture, it's
like, well, that's a, that's a good start.
I'd rather, you know, have that than the, the guy that's getting
feather meal and chicken crap, you know, but you know, with

(01:24:23):
ours, I mean, we have 40 to 50 different species out out there
and, and it's a huge pallet of, of, of nutrients.
And so plus the, the taste and check when we're going on on
poultry, the taste, texture and health components of pasture
raised poultry is by far superior to anything you'd find

(01:24:47):
in the grocery store. Now I would even I would even go
as the far I'm like going way out.
But if, if somebody was vegan, I, I would even say it like, I
think that's such a, a, a destructive diet to the human
body. I would say eat, eat grocery

(01:25:07):
store meat, like get some protein in you.
You know, there's, there's ways of, of, of doing that.
But you know, the difference is our, ours will have a higher
nutrient profile and way healthier components.
You know, when when that cow is fed that grain diet, but within

(01:25:28):
two weeks of it being fed a grain diet, it reverses most of
the health components in 100% grass fed animal.
So you know that that animal, like I said, was fed grass its
whole life. Well goes into a feed lot.
Now it's converting into, you know, higher Omega sixes and you

(01:25:50):
know, you, you end up degrading the, the, the health components
when the animal goes into that system.
But ours, ours is, you know, never fed that.
So we we don't have that concern.
I like to do to end the podcast,I like to ask like these same

(01:26:11):
questions to everyone because I think these are like kind of
core things for just people my age, people, anyone at any age
that can they can glean from. And it kind of gets less of like
a professional view of you and more of a personal one.
So the first question is, what book has changed your life?
I would say one thing that really shaped me, it shaped me

(01:26:33):
definitely like more influence in the specific time period in
our life, but walled in by Tyrone.
That was a that was a incredible, incredible book.
And then I want to say 2, if I can do 2, I'll be greedy.
You can do 2. Another thing that I think

(01:26:54):
really changed my a lot of my perspective has been incredible
influence in the agricultural side of things.
But Joel Salatin, who has Polyface farms in Virginia, the
first book I read from him was Everything I want to do is
illegal. And that was whoo.

(01:27:17):
That was an awesome book that I think that really steered me on
the trajectory of where I'm at today in life.
So those are those are 2 pretty good, pretty good books.
The next question is what quote right now in your life, like is
really sticking with you if you have one.

(01:27:38):
Some people don't, yeah. I have to pull it up.
I'm horrible. I can't ever remember quotes,
that's why I write them down. This is a Samuel Adams quote.
It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.

(01:28:00):
That that's one that I I think about often.
That's good. I think that's yeah it, it
lights the the fire in me to to educate people where their food
comes from. Yeah, if you could tell 18 year
old you one thing, what would you tell him?

(01:28:24):
I would say it would be hard to get through to him, but like,
stop caring about the material. Like stop caring what people
think about you. Yeah, stop trying to fit in.

(01:28:47):
I don't even think I just watched Into the Woods
yesterday. It was a like a play that we
went to and the. Guy that hiked the AT.
No, into the woods is it's like this like fairy tale thing, but
the the girls to get their feet into Cinderella's shoe.
They cut their foot and everyone's trying to be

(01:29:10):
Cinderella. Everyone wants to be this like
perfect thing that the the Prince is going to want, but
that's not Cinderella isn't realand there is no Prince.
And that's not even like we're all striving after this fake
goal. So we cut aspects of ourselves

(01:29:30):
like the one girl cut her heel off and the one girl cut her toe
off. And thus the shoe is soaked with
blood. And you see the the bloody shoe
in their foot, like the piece oftheir foot on the floor.
And everyone does that. They alter themselves to try and
be this thing that doesn't even exist.
And I think that that is really important because especially
young people, they feel like, especially now with social

(01:29:52):
media, they feel. Like I can't imagine.
They need to be. The pressures of that.
Like everyone else. And like, yeah, I don't, I it's,
it's really you're not supposed to be like anyone else.
Yeah. And you're not even supposed to
think like anyone else. I think I was, yeah, an 18 and

(01:30:15):
probably even later like into mylike 19 and 20.
It was like this constant like, you know, fashion and all this,
that man, I got way wrapped intothat.
This is so ridiculous. It's like for this like people
to look at you and perceive you this certain way.

(01:30:36):
It's it's so meaningless. And that's not to say that you
like can't like fashion. Like I like dressing nice, but I
like dressing nice for me. Like I'd like, I like dressing
like this. No one dresses like this.
This is how I dress. And because it fulfills me and
it makes me happy. I'm not like, what am I going to
wear that I'm going to get compliments on from other

(01:30:57):
people. I'm not thinking about other
people. And it took time.
Like I used to dress for other people.
I used to do that stuff for other people.
I used to act the way that I knew that other people would
like me more if I acted that way.
And I don't care anymore. Yeah.
And you can still, like use your, your powers of influence
to get people to, to like, like you more or, or want to work

(01:31:22):
with you more or be friends withyou or whatever.
Like there's still like, you have to be a likable person, but
you don't have to, like, cater to everyone's needs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to be liked by
everyone. Because that's a, that's a fake
life and the most successful people.
If everyone likes you. You're doing.

(01:31:43):
You're not. If everyone likes you, no one
likes you, because no one likes everyone.
Maybe. You have to be, you have to be
polarizing in some way, shape orform because then you're a real
person. Yeah, yeah.
All right. Where where can people get your
products? Where can people find more about
you? And yeah.

(01:32:03):
Yeah, well, I mean heel farms.com HEAL farms with an S
we we sell our products either aon farm pickup or we do shipping
do. You ship everywhere.
We do ship everywhere. Yeah, in the Lower 48.

(01:32:24):
Not in Australia. We haven't got there yet.
Yeah, so if you are in America and you want.
The lower 48 we, we have, we, wedo ship there.
And then I mean, I have Instagram plug it.
What is this like under score heel farms?
I actually did have heel farms and I think it thought it was a

(01:32:47):
bot fake account and it it got rid of it.
What? Yeah, it was really, really
terrible. There was this big podcaster
recently, I don't know why, but his whole, he had like 400,000
followers and he has like all hedoes all these podcasts, all
this stuff, and then his accountwas just gone and he couldn't
get it back 400,000. Now he has like 10K.

(01:33:08):
Yeah. And he's had like huge guests
on, like massive people. All of those total are gone.
All of them, they're all gone. All those collabs, all those
like collab posts that he has with people, they're just gone.
And he doesn't know why. And it was like what?
He's like, I, I have to restart.Yeah.
Well, yeah, the last. Only had like 300 at the time.

(01:33:30):
Was still pretty. That's good.
At least 400 K. Yeah, but I would like that
name. Yeah, got the under score.
Yeah, Yeah. All right.
Well. Goodbye everyone, goodbye.