February 12, 2025 • 34 mins
What’s a bird to you? To answer that oddly philosophical question, Chris sits down with Jess Curtis, the founder of J-Bird Digital Design. If you’ve ever visited the beautiful HumblePod website, you have Jess to thank for it! On this episode, you’ll get to learn about Jess's creative approach to web development and the importance of fluidity when collaborating in digital branding. Jess also believes in giving back to artists, and she explains why she makes a focused effort to highlight and empower them with J-Bird. Speaking of our avian friends, you’ll even learn how Chris's childhood obsession with chickens led him to a career in podcasting. By the time you finish this episode, you’ll be able to identify what a bird is to you (jaybird, chicken, or otherwise).
Show Highlights
- (0:00) Intro
- (1:36) How Chris met Jess
- (3:08) The history behind J-Bird
- (4:40) Why the "J-Bird" name
- (8:47) Chris's love for chickens and calling local radio stations
- (11:06) Empowering artists by asking, "What is a bird to you?”
- (13:00) What does J-Bird do
- (15:16) Challenges and successes Jess has seen with J-Bird
- (23:14) Jess’s moment of validation with J-Bird
- (26:39) What Jess is looking forward to in 2025
- (29:46) What brand does Jess admire right now?
- (32:03) Where you can find more from Jess and J-Bird
About Jess Curtis
Jess Curtis is the founder of J-Bird - Empowering small businesses, makers, and entrepreneurs to strengthen their digital presence and marketing efforts through strategic digital marketing solutions. From vision casting workshops for entrepreneurs embarking on their journey to Google My Business setup/optimization, SEO Optimized Landing Pages, Analytics, and eCommerce builds, J-Bird is dedicated to nurturing growth every step of the way through creativity and collaboration.
When she’s not sipping matcha in a cozy coffee shop, you'll find her enthusiastically networking within her creative community or exploring the inspiring world of Art Museums & Galleries.
Links
- J-Bird Digital Design: https://jbirddigitaldesigns.com/
- J-Bird on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jbirddigitaldesign/
Start a podcast with HumblePod!
https://www.humblepod.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
As you grow, the website should too, your digital assets should change with you.
And I think that helps people not hit that stalemate of
like, okay, my website has been the same thing for five
years and it is this concrete structure that doesn't change.
And it's like, if it changes with you, it can be more fluid and,
you know, be able to change and grow with you and your brand.
(00:23):
Welcome to We Built This Brand, the podcast where we talk to the
creators and collaborators behind brands and provide you with
practical insights that you can use in growing your own business.
Today, we're talking with Jess Curtis, the founder of J-Bird Digital Designs.
Jess is a digital expert, and her business handles
everything from web design and SEO to e-commerce solutions.
(00:44):
I got to know Jess after we met each other at Remedy Coffee several months
ago, and that conversation led to her doing some work for us at HumblePod.
She did excellent work for us, and it was such a delight to have
her helping us in the process of working with her that I wanted
to make sure she got her chance to shine here on our podcast.
In this conversation, Jess and I get to talk about her journey to becoming
(01:06):
an entrepreneur, her work at J-Bird, and how she supports local artists.
You'll also get to see our new studio, which
I'm in right now, and it's pretty awesome.
We're still working out some kinks, so if
you have opinions on the space, let us know.
So, without further ado, here's my conversation
with Jess Curtis of J-Bird Digital Designs.
(01:30):
Well, Jess, welcome to We Built This Brand.
It's great to have you here today.
Hi.
Um, today I wanted to bring you on the
show because you've done some work with us.
You've helped us with our website a little bit, and we, you know, had
kind of a random encounter where we actually got connected and stuff too.
It was like, um, kind of wild.
So you've been really fun to get to know.
(01:50):
Thank you.
I've loved working with Jay Berg Creative.
And, um, yeah, it's just been really fun, so.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, I love an organic meet, honestly.
Those are my favorite.
Yeah, I can't, I can't even remember everything, but I remember sitting next
to you and being like, this girl's doing something really cool and creative.
I need to ask her what she's doing.
Yeah.
I'm very curious.
And you were very articulate and ask good questions.
(02:12):
And so that's memorable to me.
Well, thank you.
Absolutely.
And then, and then the funniest thing I remember is like we had talked about,
"Oh, well maybe you can help and stuff," and then you went and vetted me.
Yeah.
And.
It was like everybody you knew, I knew.
And so it was just like this really funny moment of
like discovering like, Oh yeah, how do I not know Jess?
And we're both in the digital realm and the brand realm,
(02:33):
so I think we're just naturally curious in that way.
It's like, "Oh, okay. So what's your website?"
You know, like, you know, immediately it's like, how can I support you?
And where do I find you at digital platforms?
So, I feel like that digital handshake was.
Good, you know?
For sure and it was it was just really fun getting to know
you, and then of course, you learning about HumblePod and us
being able to work together on updating one of our web pages.
(02:54):
It's been awesome.
Mike's on I have since subscribed It's been amazing.
You should too.
Well, thank you.
It's been a fun show to produce and we've got a lot of exciting stuff coming.
So yeah.
Yeah, I'm excited So with that I always like learning,
obviously this podcast is not just big agencies and stuff.
I like talking to smaller that are really getting their start.
(03:16):
And, um, we'd just love to hear from you how J-Bird Creative
got started and really how you got there in the first place.
Yeah.
Well, it's been quite a story.
I mean, this, the classic story of I worked for others.
My first job I worked for there for five years, and I
really felt like I was truly mentored and really found
my way in tech as a woman and felt encouraged to do that.
(03:38):
And so that mentorship really allowed me to show up in a,
in authentic way in tech, and then from there I kind of just
gained more and more momentum, and I'm very self-driven.
And so if someone, you know, I was a secretary, and so that's where
I found my way into tech was I was just, I was like, I can't print
(03:59):
things and staple things and like, be really happy in that position.
It just felt especially as a woman.
I was like, I just don't think I want to be a secretary.
I think that's what people think I should be.
And so that's when I was like, I'll just rebuild their
website for them while I'm while I sit here and answer calls.
And that's kind of where that multitasking came in.
And then someone asked who built the website.
(04:20):
And I said, "I built it," and they were like, "Oh, well, that's really good.
You know, I'm a web developer.
You want to be hired?" That was that mentorship.
And then I think I just kind of felt like I outgrew
everywhere I was and I just wanted to like honor that growth.
And that's J-Bird.
That is so cool.
So what, um, What's in the name?
(04:41):
Yeah.
Obviously there's a lot to a name.
It's not just "Jess Creative" or "Jess Curtis Creative," it's J-Bird.
So where did that name come from?
Yeah, I think it comes from me.
I don't fit like an exact mold.
Like I am an entrepreneur.
I am a lot of things, and you know, that's what my clients are too,
is, you know, I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to
(05:03):
silo and like know their market, know their brand and stay that way.
And so J-Bird is just something that's authentic to me and my story.
My granddaddy would call me a "naked jaybird" because
he said I was an odd bird, and I had a big mouth.
And, and I also was naked a lot as a child on 40 acres, I mean, with no
siblings, like there was a lot of, like, why should I wear clothes, you know,?
(05:27):
And I feel like I take a naked approach to
marketing, and like, I also take it to branding.
You know what I mean?
It's like, I'm just going to strip down all this fancy stuff that
everyone says is like industry expertise and just like raw dog it.
Does that make sense?
Like, you know what I mean?
It's just like, I'm just like, let's not make it look more beautiful
than it is because I think the transparency is, is the brand.
(05:48):
And so that's what J-Bird is to me is just like transparency
into who I am and the flexibility to be able to change that.
Um, and so I wanted a name that reflected that, that didn't silo me.
I absolutely love that.
And I have a three year old daughter right now.
She, if she's not in a dress dressed as a
princess, she wants all of her clothes off.
(06:08):
So I get it.
Praise.
I get it.
Zero to a hundred.
Yeah.
As she should.
Yes.
Just wants to be free.
Yeah.
There are different safe spaces.
Both exist.
That is so cool.
So yeah, I, I love that approach and, um, and I also love
the fact that I've noticed a lot of birds in your marketing.
You're not just leaving it at, "make it as a jaybird." Yeah.
(06:29):
As the phrase would go, but you're, you're really getting
into, um, you know, you're really getting into like
some really cute cartoons and illustrations and stuff.
Yeah.
So.
And supporting other people's creative process, you know, I can be a web
developer and not be a graphic designer and not be a social media, you know,
I mean, I can, there's such a big realm to what is marketing now, and I
(06:50):
think people are like, "Oh, my social media manager, my content creator, my
web developer," you know, "my SEO expert," like, those are all one person.
It's like, in an ideal world, yes.
Like, when it was all more diluted, yes.
But now, every single one of those has its own weight.
Every graphic designer has their own creative approach.
And so, by asking other creatives to come in and
(07:12):
collaborate with me, I can say, I'm just a web developer.
This person's a graphic designer.
This person's an illustrator.
This person's a creative in a different way.
Um, and I think it just empowers them to hold that space, and I
don't have to take it up because I, I'm not a graphic designer.
So it really allows me to kind of let them own their space
so that I can own mine, and it's empowering that way.
(07:33):
Well, and I think that's smart too because, um, bringing in designers
and everything really helps you understand the, um, like that there's
not just one set design that's going to work for every client and I've
learned over the years working with designers that everybody has a
different approach and your designer's style may help you go further, but
(07:54):
it may also hinder you, or it just may not be a good fit for the client
so it's always good to have a book of designers and folks that you can
reach out to and work with, and I think sometimes clients kind of take
some like, "Oh. Why would you oh, you don't have someone right on hand?"
I'm like, "No because it every need is different."
Yes.
And every project is different.
And I think everyone's take on J-Bird is different, and I'm interested in that,
(08:16):
and that's curious like from a branding standpoint, from a data standpoint.
It's like, what is your interpretation of this bird?
Like, what is the, do you think of a flamingo?
Do you, you know, like, what is a bird to you?
You know, it's very subjective.
So it's like, I love being able to just see and not dictate
like branding is the specific thing and you have to receive it a
certain way, but instead just being this constant and collaborative
(08:38):
thing that's like what is your interpretation of my brand?
Oh, that's cool.
You know, like, either way.
That is so cool.
For me it is a chicken.
I loved chickens growing up and I did some really stupid thing actually
one of the things that got me into podcasting had to do with chickens.
Stop.
I'm so excited.
So serious.
Um, so I, uh, this is like in middle school, uh, there
(09:01):
was a radio station that was doing a contest to see if
someone could guess what their big prize was going to be.
And I called in, it was my first time on air.
I called in and I said, "it's going to be a, it's a chicken." And it was super
awkward and funny and the radio host was just trying to find his way through
the conversation, and I loved it, and I was so entertained by it, um, that
(09:22):
eventually we tried to like prank call the station and get back on the air.
And I was just obsessed with getting on the air.
Yeah.
And for like being a caller because that's what I thought like when
they had characters on radio, like that's how I thought they got
started was just doing that, and so that's what I wanted to do.
And so we, we, we did this whole thing where I was the chicken leader, and I
had my other friends get on a call with me and we all called in to like try
(09:44):
Amazing.
and talk to this guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, he, um, he did not, um,
Take to the chicken.
They did not take the chicken, but it was
hilarious to get on there and actually say,
That wasn't his brand, but it was yours.
It was!
If you're trying to package an audio of your voice
and it's like, this is how I would market that.
I mean, genius.
Yeah.
And so that led to a series of things where all of a
(10:05):
sudden my family just assumed that I loved chickens, which.
I ultimately did out of that whole situation, but um, but it was, it was
something that like was foisted onto me of like, you're going to, you're going
to be chickens and you're going to love, you're going to be the chicken guy.
And so, yeah, I mean, it got to the point
where I made a full chicken suit for myself.
Yes.
Okay.
(10:25):
I do know about that.
I did check lineage back enough to get to the chicken.
And from a digital perspective, it's like, I
got to do my digital audio all the way back.
You know.
I had a photography studio for a little while called Screaming Chicken Studio.
Ooh.
So you really leaned into it for a while and then you chickened out.
Bu-dum-shhhhh.
I'm just kidding.
(10:46):
It's okay.
We can bring a chicken back in at any point.
You're gonna have to cut that.
Yeah, I'm kidding.
That was good.
Edit that
. No, we're keeping that in.
That was great.
Um, but yeah, so like, so, so that, that's when I heard "bird" and
"J-Bird," like that's why my brain projects that because I have all
these fond memories of like silly chicken jokes and silly things.
Yeah.
I love that.
Again, what is a bird to you?
(11:07):
Like it's completely subjective.
So it's like the way that you can You remember it
because there wasn't a lot of rigidness in it, right?
Um, and so I think that's the cool part.
Yeah, and so you're you're basically bringing an artist then
interpret that is that a monthly thing that you're doing?
I try to do it monthly for sure if I can.
Not all collaborators are that available.
Um, I have a lot of stokes in the fire and a lot of people want to do it because
(11:30):
I do really give them like, they'll be like, you know, what are your colors?
And it's like, I'll give them my colors, but
other than that, it's like your interpretation.
So I don't give them a lot of direction and that can be very cathartic
for them where they're getting a lot of direction in other ways.
It's like, I really want your interpretation.
I think that speaks more to your artwork than anything.
Yeah.
So I really like empowering them in that way.
(11:51):
And it empowers me to not have to come up with
social content because it's like, this is hard.
So it's like, what's your interpretation of my, of my brand.
It's like, that just seems very tangible and organic for me.
Yeah.
It's, it's kind of, I wouldn't quite put it in the user generated content
box just because you're commissioning people to do it, but it's very
(12:12):
much in that same vein and it does give you content, which is awesome.
Yeah.
And I think it empowers paying artists.
You know what I mean?
It's like, I'm not asking them to do it for free and doing
like submit, submit this and I'll choose my favorite.
You know, it's, I pay for every single illustration.
I put 50 percent down.
I empower them to do that.
If they don't already have that process, I recommend it.
(12:33):
Um, and so it empowers them to, to really take that stance that it's like
digital illustrations are worth this much and I'm willing to pay this much.
And, you know, hopefully that helps them and their brand too.
Which is another good point because a lot of artists don't know their own value.
Absolutely.
Or feel empowered to even put in a process
because they feel like they're not worthy of that.
(12:54):
And it's like, it would save, it would help you and it would help the client.
Yep.
That's awesome.
That is so cool.
So what does J-Bird do outside of cute bird drawings?
Yeah.
So we empower, uh, our makers, artists, and entrepreneurs.
So we really work to make sure that there's a digital
space for them and their brand, whether they know what
(13:15):
that brand is or not, or they, that businesses or not.
Um, again, working with lots of entrepreneurs, there's lots of stokes
in the fire and I really like quilting it all together, taking all the
patchworks and the patterns from these entrepreneurs and small businesses
and bring it all together into one cohesive experience, digital experience.
And so that's where my web development comes in, tech stacks, you know,
(13:38):
really thinking through processing, but it also empowers artists who feel
like there's a lot of chaos, be able to just be like, it's not chaos.
It's just you, and then we package that and that can be the
brand and you can have all these facets of who you are that, you
know, that make up the brand, and so I really, I'd like digitally
reinforcing kind of the chaos of artists and entrepreneurs and makers.
(14:02):
I love that.
Yeah.
That is so fun, and what's what's really cool is not only have you of course
worked with HumblePod, but you've also worked with some other folks in the area.
Yeah, you've worked with Booth Booth Andrews.
Yep And helped her with her website.
We worked on her podcast for years.
Yeah, Bonnie.
Bonnie, yeah.
Intuitive by Nature.
Yeah.
(14:22):
We've consulted with her a little bit and all that,
and she was a guest on previous guests on the podcast.
Yes.
So that's, yeah, folks like that are just good people and knowing,
knowing that your heart is with them and helping them, like
just as a really good indication of the work you're doing so.
Same for you.
I mean, honestly.
Like, you're also promoting and elevating brands
and allowing people to have a voice in an audio.
(14:44):
You know, I don't have to call in as a chicken.
You invited me here,
Oh that's a good point!
and I appreciate that about, you know, I'm serious.
Like you're honestly like putting out the hand to make
the handshake of like, this is a collaboration, you know?
And I think it takes a lot of effort to like, just be able to
like invite people into that space and give them that voice.
So I think you're doing that too.
Well, thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
We, we try to elevate folks in the community and definitely
(15:06):
great to be able to do that with someone like you.
So.
Awesome.
Okay.
So, um, so moving on.
So J-Bird, what are some, um, what are some things with the
business that, um, you have like, challenges with, or what's
a problem that you've solved that you're really proud of?
I would say, I mean, being only two-and-a-half years old, you
(15:28):
know, I'm still just kind of a baby, but I think that's the
interesting part, you know, as an entrepreneur, stepping into
entrepreneurship, you know, I feel like I wish I'd done it 10 years
ago now, but it was always as scary as it was always going to be.
Right.
And it is still scary.
And so, um, I think really learning and fine
(15:49):
tuning from other people's mistakes and my own.
I mean, I would say, you know, changing my contract to
safeguard me against those to feel empowered to do that.
I know that sounds like kind of boring, but like
That's smart.
to have my contract, like, you know, social slander isn't something,
when I started my business, I thought I would have a clause on that
just says you cannot socially slander my business, um, or my brand.
(16:12):
Um, and it's just something that you agree with before we work together.
Same for, you know, reporting something on a credit card, you know, like getting
reported on a credit card and like not knowing that that was fraud on their end.
Like these really random gray conduits that, you know,
aren't so much with the collaborators or even the clients.
It's just these, these weird things that happen.
(16:33):
And then I feel empowered by.
That mistake or by not knowing that by learning that from someone else.
And then I feel like that's the part I enjoy is kind of the ups
and the downs feeling disempowered and then empowered again.
Yeah.
And I mean, I think, I mean, it might be boring, but the legal stuff, I
totally understand because as you grow, you realize, well, that was dumb.
(16:55):
Yeah.
You make a commitment to something or you realize
it's not in the contract until it's too late,
Mm hmm.
and you can end up in some awkward spots.
Just recently, we were able to leverage our contract to break an
agreement And I say recently and yeah a while now we might cut this out.
I don't know But I'll tell you anyway Um, but it was one of those situations
where it was like I didn't get a good feeling and I just knew, look, based on
the situation, I was in my rights and I was glad we had that paperwork signed.
So that was just a very clean and easy process to be able to, to move on.
Um, but yeah, it, it empowers you and I think that's a good thing.
And a lot of small entrepreneurs, small
businesses, entrepreneurs don't think about that.
Absolutely.
And I mean, I think that's learning from your mistakes helps empower,
(17:15):
like, I don't have to go through that experience if I learn it from
you, potentially I could just feel empowered to add that clause.
So I think that's the sharing of resources and not, you
know, really saying, okay, this is worth a certain value.
I'm only going to tell you this if you pay me.
It's more like, let's share the resources
of entrepreneurship and making mistakes.
Um, and then that way we can all be better at
(17:35):
it and safeguard ourselves and our clients.
I mean, my contract was originally just for my clients.
It was like, okay, I'm doing this for you.
And it's like, oh, but I, I need to feel empowered
to, to stand up for my brand and my business too.
And so, you know, now thinking through what I need and
also ensuring that, you know, their assets are represented.
That I'm not going to go dark on them.
(17:56):
That they own their assets.
That they own their domain.
If you buy a website from me, that is your business's asset.
Like you, it's yours.
Um, and letting people know that they have that right
versus in other experiences with tech companies.
A lot of the time it's like, okay, well, you gave us all
this content and now we own it, and it's like, "What?
What do you mean you own my pictures?" And you
(18:18):
know, "my content and my URLs and my domain?"
And like it can be a very scary experience being locked out of your assets.
Right.
Yeah.
I'm not being able to legally use and share
the things that you created and you produced.
So.
Yeah, maintaining that.
One of our clauses that I like to have is to make sure that we have basically
a final say so that if the client does something that we feel is incredibly
(18:42):
stupid, we can at least come back to them because we're in podcasting, right?
People are going to say things.
It's the internet.
But if we feel like somebody really went a bridge too far.
We can say, "Hey, they went a bridge too far and we're going to enforce this
clause in our contract and make sure that this doesn't get into the episode."
Absolutely.
And I think that enforces the integrity of your brand, you know?
Right.
Absolutely.
(19:02):
That's a lot of what it's there for, but it's also for the
client's sake to make sure they don't end up in hot water, so.
And that's kind of what I ran into and why I created
J-Bird was I kept running into like my integrity is my own.
And so it's really hard when I worked for other people that
my integrity would be like, well, I'd be willing to do this.
And it's like, okay, well the, you know, we need a revised scope of work.
(19:24):
And it's like, huh, I guess, you know what I mean?
Like I would just, you know, and so I think that
allows me now, you know, consulting is valuable.
Um, but I'm also just not.
You know, if I, if what I can say in an hour gives you
enough to afford me in a year, then that's, that's worth it.
That's my buy in, you know, my intellectual buy in, you know, I'm
(19:46):
willing to just give you this advice and these recommendations and
the things that I think of, you know, in honor for you to grow.
Yeah.
And so I, I had to create my own business to truly do that in, in
good integrity without, you know, potentially offending anybody.
You know, it's like, Oh, our business doesn't give away free information.
It's like, Oh, well mind us.
(20:07):
Yeah.
You know, J-Bird does, if only because that's, that's, I've seen it work.
It does have a return.
Um, and as those clients grow, they honor me and.
That's the most empowering part of all of it.
I mean, we're still in an era of permission based marketing, right?
So people want information that's going to help them and educate them.
(20:27):
So I think doing that and bringing people in and sharing information
is a way of helping guide them on their purchasing journey.
So I think, I think it's a good thing to do.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And that's just, you know, I, I really wanted
to be protected in that and to feel confident.
Like if it's something I'm willing to tell you,
then something I'm willing to tell you for free.
Yeah.
(20:47):
So, you know, I think that's part of J-Bird is being able to
consult so that, cause a lot of people don't know what they need.
Right.
They have no idea much less the right words.
It's like, "Oh, can I have a box?"
It's like, when you say a box, do you mean like a computer, a
website, a button, a blog, you know, like, what do you mean?
Like there's so many, again, interpretations of, "what is a bird?"
(21:09):
and, "what is a box?" and, "what is what I need?" And so I think that's
me really siloing everything and saying, "This is the priorities.
Let's prioritize." It really is a simpler than it feels.
It feels like there's a lot you can do because there is.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean we have to do it all because that wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah.
And I think it comes down to making sure that you've got, um, you got
(21:32):
the right information from them, of course, but also like it can be hard.
It could be like a, almost like a come to Jesus moment at times when you
get a client that comes to you, "Well, we want to do this website." "Okay.
What's on the website?" "I don't know."
Yeah.
And all of a sudden you find out that there's all these dysfunctions in the
company and the team, and I'm not bashing anyone because we've not had that
issue in ages, but like, but I've definitely seen it happen of, like, this
(21:55):
de-evolution of the business or the organization because they, they just
don't know what they want because they never took the time to define it.
And then you find yourself going back to, like, really basic strategy
and marketing principles just to help coach them on those things.
And a lot of the time, I mean, makers and artists, they're not digital gurus.
They're not in tech, they're not in tech stack development
(22:15):
and operations, and you know, they're not doing that.
They're just trying to, you know, make something, you know, cool.
You know, they're potentially working with glass or metal or you
know, I mean- The medium of digital marketing isn't their medium.
So that digital realm is my medium, and so that's where it's
like I can come in and just be like, "You need an e-commerce."
(22:38):
You know, and it's like, "Okay, we can't build an e-commerce
if you don't have a logo." I empower someone to get you a logo.
That's not me, but I can consult for that to happen.
Empower them to hire someone that helps them with the
logo so that we can build the website and the e-commerce.
Um, and I think those very tangible, actionable steps and prioritizing
(22:59):
that helps people really be able to take those steps in a way
that they don't, you know, have that fight or flight response.
It's like, can I do this?
It's like, you don't have to do all of it and that's how you can do it.
Yeah.
So every business has that moment especially early on, you
said you're only two-and-a-half years into the company.
You're building it, but every business has that moment
(23:20):
of what I call "validation" in the business It's that
moment where you're like, okay, this is a real thing.
I'm not just doing this as a hobby between jobs.
It's gonna be a real career, real business for me.
What was that moment for you?
Yeah, I would say, again, being young, you
know, hopefully this just grows more as I grow.
But, you know, I feel like the first year was so hard.
(23:43):
I was constantly had to advocate for myself, for my expertise,
for who I was and what I did, and how I was different.
And I really trailblazed a trail that didn't exist yet.
It was, it's my personal route, you know, and so I trailblazed that trail.
And this year I just kind of get to walk it.
It's less sales.
It's less.
It's advocating for what I do and how I do it because
(24:05):
I've built that portfolio on my own name, and it exists.
And so I feel like now people can more organically find
me and I don't have to be that person that I'm not.
That is the salesperson.
Like why this is important.
It's like they potentially already come to me because they know it's important,
and I absolutely love that, and it makes just the wheel turn a little bit easy.
(24:26):
It's like the WD-40.
You know what I mean?
It's like, okay, this doesn't have to be so, it's this, I
don't want to advocate for something you don't think you need.
And it just eliminates that.
So would it be referrals or just people find you and they know that
when they look at your website, they're coming and filling out forms?
It's referrals.
It's success stories.
But it's also being able to even turn people away and say,
(24:48):
"You need a logo," and, "You need to go to a graphic designer,"
and instead of me being that wall, that's like, "Okay.
It's not me." I can provide a directory of resources and say,
"Here's six people I know that do do exactly what you need.
Go put your time, your money, your effort, and your momentum
there." Or ignore me, and pay me, and I, I can do it anyways.
(25:09):
You know what I mean?
But I don't recommend it.
That wouldn't be, and so that allows me to really be able to offload
people to what they need and then feel empowered to do that because someone
actually told them, like, you don't need a website, you need a logo.
You need content.
You need to know your brand, you need to know your services.
Whatever it is.
Yeah.
(25:30):
Um, and so yeah, I think it really just empowers me to,
to send people back into the universe to get what they
need so that they can come back with what they need.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That's cool.
And it's always great to have that moment of like, "Okay, this is
finally working the way I wanted to, everything's moving along."
Yeah.
You're making money.
And I think it allows me to come back in from the tech side and say,
(25:52):
"Okay, let's update photography now." Like I can make those recommendations
because I've made them before, and they worked, and they trust me.
And so it allows me to say like, "Okay, we've built the e-commerce.
What if we changed the, the homepage? What if we, now that you know
who you are," like one, like, and as you change and as you grow,
(26:12):
the website should too, your digital assets should change with you.
Right.
Um, and I think that helps people not hit that stalemate of like, okay,
my website has been the same thing for five years, and it is this concrete
structure that doesn't change, and it's like, if it changes with you, it can be
more fluid, and you know, be able to change and grow with you and your brand.
(26:33):
That's really cool.
Yeah.
What are some things that you're looking forward to this year?
Yeah, I think it's to continue those collaborations and
consultations, like to be able to continue to consult, and
help people grow to have people the ones, you know, if they're
someone I sent somewhere else that's watching them come back.
That means they've grown, that they've found those things, you know?
(26:54):
Um, and so being able to continue to see the lineage of like all
of these entrepreneurs and makers and how they've changed and how
they haven't, and, and I think it's really subscribing to each and
every one of their stories and seeing those stories come back to me.
I think that's the most exciting part is
to continue to be a part of that change.
(27:15):
That's exciting.
Yeah.
What are some things like maybe from a
technical perspective that you're interested in?
Yeah, I would say building more websites, a hundred percent, always.
Love web development and e-commerce is, um, to continue to
help consult, to help with tech stack audits and automations.
To help people just really find that they don't have to do
(27:38):
everything that sometimes we can automate things to do things and
that the website can work for you, the assets can work for you.
And so again, just continuing to watch those numbers grow, the
clients, the websites, the women-owned businesses, you know,
just continue to watch all of it grow like that is my growth.
Yeah.
Automation is really cool to me and saves us a ton of time.
(28:00):
I love it.
So I'm, I'm a really big fan.
What kind of automation software are you using right now?
Yeah, I will.
I really love to use Zapier right now.
I'm a big zap girl.
I think eventually, and especially with the algorithm and the AI is
being able to like build it out for you, really getting those third
parties who weren't friends that, you know, to be friends again.
Like, I love being able to make, you know, when I have a client
(28:23):
on board, I have a form that creates a contact in my CMS that
immediately creates a Google calendar that sends out an email.
You know, it does all these things that it's like, this is how I
want someone to feel supported and I can guarantee that digitally.
Um, and so I use a lot of zaps.
Honestly, integrate them as organically as possible so
that they don't break and that you don't run into that.
(28:46):
"Oh, this broke." Um, I really like trying to find the
most organic way for them to be friends, and then that
way, hopefully that's just the sustainable solution.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause you can get overly complicated with
those and they can create issues and do things.
Sometimes I feel like Zapier does have a mind
of its own, but, um, but it is, it is nice.
(29:06):
Like you said, to take those things that aren't friends and make them friends.
And I mean, I think that's the thing with like WordPress or any platform is
they're constantly trying to make those relationships on your behalf too.
So it's like the plugin.
It should exist, you know, really being able to vet
those things like, you know, Shopify and add ons.
Like there's all these options out there
(29:27):
that are consistently learning and growing.
And so being able to utilize them and set of just not knowing.
And it's like, Oh, actually this could have been doing a lot for you.
And it's like, could you imagine if it was doing that this whole time?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's really cool.
So as we wrap up.
I always like to ask the question, what brand do you admire the most right now?
(29:48):
And I'd just love to hear from you.
Yeah, I would say Google.
I know that that's kind of a generic answer, um, to some
extent, but I think, you know, there I'm having these custom
illustrators that changed the Google graphic every day.
Amazing.
Like, truly astounding, like making those collabs.
They have a custom illustrator who literally just comes
up with the different Googles to honor different holidays.
(30:10):
Like, I love that they are always changing,
but they're still constantly the same.
Like, I love the, the contrast of those two things, you know, that it's like,
I love that they're big, but they've always done exactly the same thing.
I hate that they're changing their algorithms, but like from a
brand perspective, not like the SEO algorithm perspective, you
(30:31):
know, it's like, I love the creativity that they've never stopped
the creativity side of it and the collaborative side of it.
Um, so I think that's the brand I admire the most in that way that you
can just go to Google today, and it's going to be different than tomorrow.
And it's always different.
And I love that.
I mean, it's, it's definitely fun.
I mean, Google has a, a really, um, fascinating backstory.
(30:55):
Like you said, with all that stuff and how they make all those changes.
So that's cool.
Yeah,
that's really neat.
I think it brings back in that J-Bird collaboration and creativity, you know,
that it's like, what is, you know, how can you keep something consistent
and grounding for someone while also having fluidity and change, you know.
How do you make both exist and honor both in a brand?
(31:16):
Yeah, but I definitely hate them changing their algorithm.
No Yeah, we won't talk about that.
I get it 100 percent No I'm not, I don't recommend that.
I just like the, I really love the Google
OG page with the different illustrations.
That's what it resonates most with me.
Nice.
Nice.
I don't think I ever go to that page anymore though.
Are you kidding?
(31:36):
No.
It's one of my absolute favorite things to do, like Women's Day,
you know, uh, like all these holidays I've never known before.
You know, like Thanksgiving, they're going to have a great
You didn't know about Thanksgiving?
Google illustration for Thanksgiving.
Well, I mean, not until Google showed it to me.
I'm just kidding.
Maybe that was the algorithm though.
That's what it was.
Tech jokes.
(31:56):
Oh, Lordy.
Um, well, that's great.
Well, Jess thank you so much.
This has been a pleasure to have you on.
Um, where can people find out more about you and connect with J-Bird?
Yeah, you can follow on Instagram to see
all the different collaborative J-Birds.
That's @jbirddigitaldesign.
No "s" because I was late in life on that, I guess.
And then I've got my website, jbirddigitaldesigns.com.
(32:20):
That's where I have a lot of, again, collaborative images that
represent different case studies, different clients, different stories.
I mean, one size does not fit all for J-Bird.
And so every single case study and portfolio piece is completely different.
And that really speaks both to our clients and us.
All right.
Well, Jess, thank you so much for coming on.
Thanks.
All right.
Bye.
(32:41):
Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
Don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe on your player of choice.
You can also keep up with the podcast on our website at webuiltthisbrand.com.
If you liked this episode, please give the podcast a five star review and make
sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.
As you grow, the website should too, your digital assets should change with you.
And I think that helps people not hit that stalemate of
like, okay, my website has been the same thing for five
years and it is this concrete structure that doesn't change.
And it's like, if it changes with you, it can be more fluid and,
you know, be able to change and grow with you and your brand.
(00:23):
Welcome to We Built This Brand, the podcast where we talk to the
creators and collaborators behind brands and provide you with
practical insights that you can use in growing your own business.
Today, we're talking with Jess Curtis, the founder of J-Bird Digital Designs.
Jess is a digital expert, and her business handles
everything from web design and SEO to e-commerce solutions.
(00:44):
I got to know Jess after we met each other at Remedy Coffee several months
ago, and that conversation led to her doing some work for us at HumblePod.
She did excellent work for us, and it was such a delight to have
her helping us in the process of working with her that I wanted
to make sure she got her chance to shine here on our podcast.
In this conversation, Jess and I get to talk about her journey to becoming
(01:06):
an entrepreneur, her work at J-Bird, and how she supports local artists.
You'll also get to see our new studio, which
I'm in right now, and it's pretty awesome.
We're still working out some kinks, so if
you have opinions on the space, let us know.
So, without further ado, here's my conversation
with Jess Curtis of J-Bird Digital Designs.
(01:30):
Well, Jess, welcome to We Built This Brand.
It's great to have you here today.
Hi.
Um, today I wanted to bring you on the
show because you've done some work with us.
You've helped us with our website a little bit, and we, you know, had
kind of a random encounter where we actually got connected and stuff too.
It was like, um, kind of wild.
So you've been really fun to get to know.
(01:50):
Thank you.
I've loved working with Jay Berg Creative.
And, um, yeah, it's just been really fun, so.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, I love an organic meet, honestly.
Those are my favorite.
Yeah, I can't, I can't even remember everything, but I remember sitting next
to you and being like, this girl's doing something really cool and creative.
I need to ask her what she's doing.
Yeah.
I'm very curious.
And you were very articulate and ask good questions.
(02:12):
And so that's memorable to me.
Well, thank you.
Absolutely.
And then, and then the funniest thing I remember is like we had talked about,
"Oh, well maybe you can help and stuff," and then you went and vetted me.
Yeah.
And.
It was like everybody you knew, I knew.
And so it was just like this really funny moment of
like discovering like, Oh yeah, how do I not know Jess?
And we're both in the digital realm and the brand realm,
(02:33):
so I think we're just naturally curious in that way.
It's like, "Oh, okay. So what's your website?"
You know, like, you know, immediately it's like, how can I support you?
And where do I find you at digital platforms?
So, I feel like that digital handshake was.
Good, you know?
For sure and it was it was just really fun getting to know
you, and then of course, you learning about HumblePod and us
being able to work together on updating one of our web pages.
(02:54):
It's been awesome.
Mike's on I have since subscribed It's been amazing.
You should too.
Well, thank you.
It's been a fun show to produce and we've got a lot of exciting stuff coming.
So yeah.
Yeah, I'm excited So with that I always like learning,
obviously this podcast is not just big agencies and stuff.
I like talking to smaller that are really getting their start.
(03:16):
And, um, we'd just love to hear from you how J-Bird Creative
got started and really how you got there in the first place.
Yeah.
Well, it's been quite a story.
I mean, this, the classic story of I worked for others.
My first job I worked for there for five years, and I
really felt like I was truly mentored and really found
my way in tech as a woman and felt encouraged to do that.
(03:38):
And so that mentorship really allowed me to show up in a,
in authentic way in tech, and then from there I kind of just
gained more and more momentum, and I'm very self-driven.
And so if someone, you know, I was a secretary, and so that's where
I found my way into tech was I was just, I was like, I can't print
(03:59):
things and staple things and like, be really happy in that position.
It just felt especially as a woman.
I was like, I just don't think I want to be a secretary.
I think that's what people think I should be.
And so that's when I was like, I'll just rebuild their
website for them while I'm while I sit here and answer calls.
And that's kind of where that multitasking came in.
And then someone asked who built the website.
(04:20):
And I said, "I built it," and they were like, "Oh, well, that's really good.
You know, I'm a web developer.
You want to be hired?" That was that mentorship.
And then I think I just kind of felt like I outgrew
everywhere I was and I just wanted to like honor that growth.
And that's J-Bird.
That is so cool.
So what, um, What's in the name?
(04:41):
Yeah.
Obviously there's a lot to a name.
It's not just "Jess Creative" or "Jess Curtis Creative," it's J-Bird.
So where did that name come from?
Yeah, I think it comes from me.
I don't fit like an exact mold.
Like I am an entrepreneur.
I am a lot of things, and you know, that's what my clients are too,
is, you know, I feel like a lot of people feel like they have to
(05:03):
silo and like know their market, know their brand and stay that way.
And so J-Bird is just something that's authentic to me and my story.
My granddaddy would call me a "naked jaybird" because
he said I was an odd bird, and I had a big mouth.
And, and I also was naked a lot as a child on 40 acres, I mean, with no
siblings, like there was a lot of, like, why should I wear clothes, you know,?
(05:27):
And I feel like I take a naked approach to
marketing, and like, I also take it to branding.
You know what I mean?
It's like, I'm just going to strip down all this fancy stuff that
everyone says is like industry expertise and just like raw dog it.
Does that make sense?
Like, you know what I mean?
It's just like, I'm just like, let's not make it look more beautiful
than it is because I think the transparency is, is the brand.
(05:48):
And so that's what J-Bird is to me is just like transparency
into who I am and the flexibility to be able to change that.
Um, and so I wanted a name that reflected that, that didn't silo me.
I absolutely love that.
And I have a three year old daughter right now.
She, if she's not in a dress dressed as a
princess, she wants all of her clothes off.
(06:08):
So I get it.
Praise.
I get it.
Zero to a hundred.
Yeah.
As she should.
Yes.
Just wants to be free.
Yeah.
There are different safe spaces.
Both exist.
That is so cool.
So yeah, I, I love that approach and, um, and I also love
the fact that I've noticed a lot of birds in your marketing.
You're not just leaving it at, "make it as a jaybird." Yeah.
(06:29):
As the phrase would go, but you're, you're really getting
into, um, you know, you're really getting into like
some really cute cartoons and illustrations and stuff.
Yeah.
So.
And supporting other people's creative process, you know, I can be a web
developer and not be a graphic designer and not be a social media, you know,
I mean, I can, there's such a big realm to what is marketing now, and I
(06:50):
think people are like, "Oh, my social media manager, my content creator, my
web developer," you know, "my SEO expert," like, those are all one person.
It's like, in an ideal world, yes.
Like, when it was all more diluted, yes.
But now, every single one of those has its own weight.
Every graphic designer has their own creative approach.
And so, by asking other creatives to come in and
(07:12):
collaborate with me, I can say, I'm just a web developer.
This person's a graphic designer.
This person's an illustrator.
This person's a creative in a different way.
Um, and I think it just empowers them to hold that space, and I
don't have to take it up because I, I'm not a graphic designer.
So it really allows me to kind of let them own their space
so that I can own mine, and it's empowering that way.
(07:33):
Well, and I think that's smart too because, um, bringing in designers
and everything really helps you understand the, um, like that there's
not just one set design that's going to work for every client and I've
learned over the years working with designers that everybody has a
different approach and your designer's style may help you go further, but
(07:54):
it may also hinder you, or it just may not be a good fit for the client
so it's always good to have a book of designers and folks that you can
reach out to and work with, and I think sometimes clients kind of take
some like, "Oh. Why would you oh, you don't have someone right on hand?"
I'm like, "No because it every need is different."
Yes.
And every project is different.
And I think everyone's take on J-Bird is different, and I'm interested in that,
(08:16):
and that's curious like from a branding standpoint, from a data standpoint.
It's like, what is your interpretation of this bird?
Like, what is the, do you think of a flamingo?
Do you, you know, like, what is a bird to you?
You know, it's very subjective.
So it's like, I love being able to just see and not dictate
like branding is the specific thing and you have to receive it a
certain way, but instead just being this constant and collaborative
(08:38):
thing that's like what is your interpretation of my brand?
Oh, that's cool.
You know, like, either way.
That is so cool.
For me it is a chicken.
I loved chickens growing up and I did some really stupid thing actually
one of the things that got me into podcasting had to do with chickens.
Stop.
I'm so excited.
So serious.
Um, so I, uh, this is like in middle school, uh, there
(09:01):
was a radio station that was doing a contest to see if
someone could guess what their big prize was going to be.
And I called in, it was my first time on air.
I called in and I said, "it's going to be a, it's a chicken." And it was super
awkward and funny and the radio host was just trying to find his way through
the conversation, and I loved it, and I was so entertained by it, um, that
(09:22):
eventually we tried to like prank call the station and get back on the air.
And I was just obsessed with getting on the air.
Yeah.
And for like being a caller because that's what I thought like when
they had characters on radio, like that's how I thought they got
started was just doing that, and so that's what I wanted to do.
And so we, we, we did this whole thing where I was the chicken leader, and I
had my other friends get on a call with me and we all called in to like try
(09:44):
Amazing.
and talk to this guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, he, um, he did not, um,
Take to the chicken.
They did not take the chicken, but it was
hilarious to get on there and actually say,
That wasn't his brand, but it was yours.
It was!
If you're trying to package an audio of your voice
and it's like, this is how I would market that.
I mean, genius.
Yeah.
And so that led to a series of things where all of a
(10:05):
sudden my family just assumed that I loved chickens, which.
I ultimately did out of that whole situation, but um, but it was, it was
something that like was foisted onto me of like, you're going to, you're going
to be chickens and you're going to love, you're going to be the chicken guy.
And so, yeah, I mean, it got to the point
where I made a full chicken suit for myself.
Yes.
Okay.
(10:25):
I do know about that.
I did check lineage back enough to get to the chicken.
And from a digital perspective, it's like, I
got to do my digital audio all the way back.
You know.
I had a photography studio for a little while called Screaming Chicken Studio.
Ooh.
So you really leaned into it for a while and then you chickened out.
Bu-dum-shhhhh.
I'm just kidding.
(10:46):
It's okay.
We can bring a chicken back in at any point.
You're gonna have to cut that.
Yeah, I'm kidding.
That was good.
Edit that
. No, we're keeping that in.
That was great.
Um, but yeah, so like, so, so that, that's when I heard "bird" and
"J-Bird," like that's why my brain projects that because I have all
these fond memories of like silly chicken jokes and silly things.
Yeah.
I love that.
Again, what is a bird to you?
(11:07):
Like it's completely subjective.
So it's like the way that you can You remember it
because there wasn't a lot of rigidness in it, right?
Um, and so I think that's the cool part.
Yeah, and so you're you're basically bringing an artist then
interpret that is that a monthly thing that you're doing?
I try to do it monthly for sure if I can.
Not all collaborators are that available.
Um, I have a lot of stokes in the fire and a lot of people want to do it because
(11:30):
I do really give them like, they'll be like, you know, what are your colors?
And it's like, I'll give them my colors, but
other than that, it's like your interpretation.
So I don't give them a lot of direction and that can be very cathartic
for them where they're getting a lot of direction in other ways.
It's like, I really want your interpretation.
I think that speaks more to your artwork than anything.
Yeah.
So I really like empowering them in that way.
(11:51):
And it empowers me to not have to come up with
social content because it's like, this is hard.
So it's like, what's your interpretation of my, of my brand.
It's like, that just seems very tangible and organic for me.
Yeah.
It's, it's kind of, I wouldn't quite put it in the user generated content
box just because you're commissioning people to do it, but it's very
(12:12):
much in that same vein and it does give you content, which is awesome.
Yeah.
And I think it empowers paying artists.
You know what I mean?
It's like, I'm not asking them to do it for free and doing
like submit, submit this and I'll choose my favorite.
You know, it's, I pay for every single illustration.
I put 50 percent down.
I empower them to do that.
If they don't already have that process, I recommend it.
(12:33):
Um, and so it empowers them to, to really take that stance that it's like
digital illustrations are worth this much and I'm willing to pay this much.
And, you know, hopefully that helps them and their brand too.
Which is another good point because a lot of artists don't know their own value.
Absolutely.
Or feel empowered to even put in a process
because they feel like they're not worthy of that.
(12:54):
And it's like, it would save, it would help you and it would help the client.
Yep.
That's awesome.
That is so cool.
So what does J-Bird do outside of cute bird drawings?
Yeah.
So we empower, uh, our makers, artists, and entrepreneurs.
So we really work to make sure that there's a digital
space for them and their brand, whether they know what
(13:15):
that brand is or not, or they, that businesses or not.
Um, again, working with lots of entrepreneurs, there's lots of stokes
in the fire and I really like quilting it all together, taking all the
patchworks and the patterns from these entrepreneurs and small businesses
and bring it all together into one cohesive experience, digital experience.
And so that's where my web development comes in, tech stacks, you know,
(13:38):
really thinking through processing, but it also empowers artists who feel
like there's a lot of chaos, be able to just be like, it's not chaos.
It's just you, and then we package that and that can be the
brand and you can have all these facets of who you are that, you
know, that make up the brand, and so I really, I'd like digitally
reinforcing kind of the chaos of artists and entrepreneurs and makers.
(14:02):
I love that.
Yeah.
That is so fun, and what's what's really cool is not only have you of course
worked with HumblePod, but you've also worked with some other folks in the area.
Yeah, you've worked with Booth Booth Andrews.
Yep And helped her with her website.
We worked on her podcast for years.
Yeah, Bonnie.
Bonnie, yeah.
Intuitive by Nature.
Yeah.
(14:22):
We've consulted with her a little bit and all that,
and she was a guest on previous guests on the podcast.
Yes.
So that's, yeah, folks like that are just good people and knowing,
knowing that your heart is with them and helping them, like
just as a really good indication of the work you're doing so.
Same for you.
I mean, honestly.
Like, you're also promoting and elevating brands
and allowing people to have a voice in an audio.
(14:44):
You know, I don't have to call in as a chicken.
You invited me here,
Oh that's a good point!
and I appreciate that about, you know, I'm serious.
Like you're honestly like putting out the hand to make
the handshake of like, this is a collaboration, you know?
And I think it takes a lot of effort to like, just be able to
like invite people into that space and give them that voice.
So I think you're doing that too.
Well, thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
We, we try to elevate folks in the community and definitely
(15:06):
great to be able to do that with someone like you.
So.
Awesome.
Okay.
So, um, so moving on.
So J-Bird, what are some, um, what are some things with the
business that, um, you have like, challenges with, or what's
a problem that you've solved that you're really proud of?
I would say, I mean, being only two-and-a-half years old, you
(15:28):
know, I'm still just kind of a baby, but I think that's the
interesting part, you know, as an entrepreneur, stepping into
entrepreneurship, you know, I feel like I wish I'd done it 10 years
ago now, but it was always as scary as it was always going to be.
Right.
And it is still scary.
And so, um, I think really learning and fine
(15:49):
tuning from other people's mistakes and my own.
I mean, I would say, you know, changing my contract to
safeguard me against those to feel empowered to do that.
I know that sounds like kind of boring, but like
That's smart.
to have my contract, like, you know, social slander isn't something,
when I started my business, I thought I would have a clause on that
just says you cannot socially slander my business, um, or my brand.
(16:12):
Um, and it's just something that you agree with before we work together.
Same for, you know, reporting something on a credit card, you know, like getting
reported on a credit card and like not knowing that that was fraud on their end.
Like these really random gray conduits that, you know,
aren't so much with the collaborators or even the clients.
It's just these, these weird things that happen.
(16:33):
And then I feel empowered by.
That mistake or by not knowing that by learning that from someone else.
And then I feel like that's the part I enjoy is kind of the ups
and the downs feeling disempowered and then empowered again.
Yeah.
And I mean, I think, I mean, it might be boring, but the legal stuff, I
totally understand because as you grow, you realize, well, that was dumb.
(16:55):
Yeah.
You make a commitment to something or you realize
it's not in the contract until it's too late,
Mm hmm.
and you can end up in some awkward spots.
Just recently, we were able to leverage our contract to break an
agreement And I say recently and yeah a while now we might cut this out.
I don't know But I'll tell you anyway Um, but it was one of those situations
where it was like I didn't get a good feeling and I just knew, look, based on
the situation, I was in my rights and I was glad we had that paperwork signed.
So that was just a very clean and easy process to be able to, to move on.
Um, but yeah, it, it empowers you and I think that's a good thing.
And a lot of small entrepreneurs, small
businesses, entrepreneurs don't think about that.
Absolutely.
And I mean, I think that's learning from your mistakes helps empower,
(17:15):
like, I don't have to go through that experience if I learn it from
you, potentially I could just feel empowered to add that clause.
So I think that's the sharing of resources and not, you
know, really saying, okay, this is worth a certain value.
I'm only going to tell you this if you pay me.
It's more like, let's share the resources
of entrepreneurship and making mistakes.
Um, and then that way we can all be better at
(17:35):
it and safeguard ourselves and our clients.
I mean, my contract was originally just for my clients.
It was like, okay, I'm doing this for you.
And it's like, oh, but I, I need to feel empowered
to, to stand up for my brand and my business too.
And so, you know, now thinking through what I need and
also ensuring that, you know, their assets are represented.
That I'm not going to go dark on them.
(17:56):
That they own their assets.
That they own their domain.
If you buy a website from me, that is your business's asset.
Like you, it's yours.
Um, and letting people know that they have that right
versus in other experiences with tech companies.
A lot of the time it's like, okay, well, you gave us all
this content and now we own it, and it's like, "What?
What do you mean you own my pictures?" And you
(18:18):
know, "my content and my URLs and my domain?"
And like it can be a very scary experience being locked out of your assets.
Right.
Yeah.
I'm not being able to legally use and share
the things that you created and you produced.
So.
Yeah, maintaining that.
One of our clauses that I like to have is to make sure that we have basically
a final say so that if the client does something that we feel is incredibly
(18:42):
stupid, we can at least come back to them because we're in podcasting, right?
People are going to say things.
It's the internet.
But if we feel like somebody really went a bridge too far.
We can say, "Hey, they went a bridge too far and we're going to enforce this
clause in our contract and make sure that this doesn't get into the episode."
Absolutely.
And I think that enforces the integrity of your brand, you know?
Right.
Absolutely.
(19:02):
That's a lot of what it's there for, but it's also for the
client's sake to make sure they don't end up in hot water, so.
And that's kind of what I ran into and why I created
J-Bird was I kept running into like my integrity is my own.
And so it's really hard when I worked for other people that
my integrity would be like, well, I'd be willing to do this.
And it's like, okay, well the, you know, we need a revised scope of work.
(19:24):
And it's like, huh, I guess, you know what I mean?
Like I would just, you know, and so I think that
allows me now, you know, consulting is valuable.
Um, but I'm also just not.
You know, if I, if what I can say in an hour gives you
enough to afford me in a year, then that's, that's worth it.
That's my buy in, you know, my intellectual buy in, you know, I'm
(19:46):
willing to just give you this advice and these recommendations and
the things that I think of, you know, in honor for you to grow.
Yeah.
And so I, I had to create my own business to truly do that in, in
good integrity without, you know, potentially offending anybody.
You know, it's like, Oh, our business doesn't give away free information.
It's like, Oh, well mind us.
(20:07):
Yeah.
You know, J-Bird does, if only because that's, that's, I've seen it work.
It does have a return.
Um, and as those clients grow, they honor me and.
That's the most empowering part of all of it.
I mean, we're still in an era of permission based marketing, right?
So people want information that's going to help them and educate them.
(20:27):
So I think doing that and bringing people in and sharing information
is a way of helping guide them on their purchasing journey.
So I think, I think it's a good thing to do.
Thank you.
Yeah.
And that's just, you know, I, I really wanted
to be protected in that and to feel confident.
Like if it's something I'm willing to tell you,
then something I'm willing to tell you for free.
Yeah.
(20:47):
So, you know, I think that's part of J-Bird is being able to
consult so that, cause a lot of people don't know what they need.
Right.
They have no idea much less the right words.
It's like, "Oh, can I have a box?"
It's like, when you say a box, do you mean like a computer, a
website, a button, a blog, you know, like, what do you mean?
Like there's so many, again, interpretations of, "what is a bird?"
(21:09):
and, "what is a box?" and, "what is what I need?" And so I think that's
me really siloing everything and saying, "This is the priorities.
Let's prioritize." It really is a simpler than it feels.
It feels like there's a lot you can do because there is.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean we have to do it all because that wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah.
And I think it comes down to making sure that you've got, um, you got
(21:32):
the right information from them, of course, but also like it can be hard.
It could be like a, almost like a come to Jesus moment at times when you
get a client that comes to you, "Well, we want to do this website." "Okay.
What's on the website?" "I don't know."
Yeah.
And all of a sudden you find out that there's all these dysfunctions in the
company and the team, and I'm not bashing anyone because we've not had that
issue in ages, but like, but I've definitely seen it happen of, like, this
(21:55):
de-evolution of the business or the organization because they, they just
don't know what they want because they never took the time to define it.
And then you find yourself going back to, like, really basic strategy
and marketing principles just to help coach them on those things.
And a lot of the time, I mean, makers and artists, they're not digital gurus.
They're not in tech, they're not in tech stack development
(22:15):
and operations, and you know, they're not doing that.
They're just trying to, you know, make something, you know, cool.
You know, they're potentially working with glass or metal or you
know, I mean- The medium of digital marketing isn't their medium.
So that digital realm is my medium, and so that's where it's
like I can come in and just be like, "You need an e-commerce."
(22:38):
You know, and it's like, "Okay, we can't build an e-commerce
if you don't have a logo." I empower someone to get you a logo.
That's not me, but I can consult for that to happen.
Empower them to hire someone that helps them with the
logo so that we can build the website and the e-commerce.
Um, and I think those very tangible, actionable steps and prioritizing
(22:59):
that helps people really be able to take those steps in a way
that they don't, you know, have that fight or flight response.
It's like, can I do this?
It's like, you don't have to do all of it and that's how you can do it.
Yeah.
So every business has that moment especially early on, you
said you're only two-and-a-half years into the company.
You're building it, but every business has that moment
(23:20):
of what I call "validation" in the business It's that
moment where you're like, okay, this is a real thing.
I'm not just doing this as a hobby between jobs.
It's gonna be a real career, real business for me.
What was that moment for you?
Yeah, I would say, again, being young, you
know, hopefully this just grows more as I grow.
But, you know, I feel like the first year was so hard.
(23:43):
I was constantly had to advocate for myself, for my expertise,
for who I was and what I did, and how I was different.
And I really trailblazed a trail that didn't exist yet.
It was, it's my personal route, you know, and so I trailblazed that trail.
And this year I just kind of get to walk it.
It's less sales.
It's less.
It's advocating for what I do and how I do it because
(24:05):
I've built that portfolio on my own name, and it exists.
And so I feel like now people can more organically find
me and I don't have to be that person that I'm not.
That is the salesperson.
Like why this is important.
It's like they potentially already come to me because they know it's important,
and I absolutely love that, and it makes just the wheel turn a little bit easy.
(24:26):
It's like the WD-40.
You know what I mean?
It's like, okay, this doesn't have to be so, it's this, I
don't want to advocate for something you don't think you need.
And it just eliminates that.
So would it be referrals or just people find you and they know that
when they look at your website, they're coming and filling out forms?
It's referrals.
It's success stories.
But it's also being able to even turn people away and say,
(24:48):
"You need a logo," and, "You need to go to a graphic designer,"
and instead of me being that wall, that's like, "Okay.
It's not me." I can provide a directory of resources and say,
"Here's six people I know that do do exactly what you need.
Go put your time, your money, your effort, and your momentum
there." Or ignore me, and pay me, and I, I can do it anyways.
(25:09):
You know what I mean?
But I don't recommend it.
That wouldn't be, and so that allows me to really be able to offload
people to what they need and then feel empowered to do that because someone
actually told them, like, you don't need a website, you need a logo.
You need content.
You need to know your brand, you need to know your services.
Whatever it is.
Yeah.
(25:30):
Um, and so yeah, I think it really just empowers me to,
to send people back into the universe to get what they
need so that they can come back with what they need.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That's cool.
And it's always great to have that moment of like, "Okay, this is
finally working the way I wanted to, everything's moving along."
Yeah.
You're making money.
And I think it allows me to come back in from the tech side and say,
(25:52):
"Okay, let's update photography now." Like I can make those recommendations
because I've made them before, and they worked, and they trust me.
And so it allows me to say like, "Okay, we've built the e-commerce.
What if we changed the, the homepage? What if we, now that you know
who you are," like one, like, and as you change and as you grow,
(26:12):
the website should too, your digital assets should change with you.
Right.
Um, and I think that helps people not hit that stalemate of like, okay,
my website has been the same thing for five years, and it is this concrete
structure that doesn't change, and it's like, if it changes with you, it can be
more fluid, and you know, be able to change and grow with you and your brand.
(26:33):
That's really cool.
Yeah.
What are some things that you're looking forward to this year?
Yeah, I think it's to continue those collaborations and
consultations, like to be able to continue to consult, and
help people grow to have people the ones, you know, if they're
someone I sent somewhere else that's watching them come back.
That means they've grown, that they've found those things, you know?
(26:54):
Um, and so being able to continue to see the lineage of like all
of these entrepreneurs and makers and how they've changed and how
they haven't, and, and I think it's really subscribing to each and
every one of their stories and seeing those stories come back to me.
I think that's the most exciting part is
to continue to be a part of that change.
(27:15):
That's exciting.
Yeah.
What are some things like maybe from a
technical perspective that you're interested in?
Yeah, I would say building more websites, a hundred percent, always.
Love web development and e-commerce is, um, to continue to
help consult, to help with tech stack audits and automations.
To help people just really find that they don't have to do
(27:38):
everything that sometimes we can automate things to do things and
that the website can work for you, the assets can work for you.
And so again, just continuing to watch those numbers grow, the
clients, the websites, the women-owned businesses, you know,
just continue to watch all of it grow like that is my growth.
Yeah.
Automation is really cool to me and saves us a ton of time.
(28:00):
I love it.
So I'm, I'm a really big fan.
What kind of automation software are you using right now?
Yeah, I will.
I really love to use Zapier right now.
I'm a big zap girl.
I think eventually, and especially with the algorithm and the AI is
being able to like build it out for you, really getting those third
parties who weren't friends that, you know, to be friends again.
Like, I love being able to make, you know, when I have a client
(28:23):
on board, I have a form that creates a contact in my CMS that
immediately creates a Google calendar that sends out an email.
You know, it does all these things that it's like, this is how I
want someone to feel supported and I can guarantee that digitally.
Um, and so I use a lot of zaps.
Honestly, integrate them as organically as possible so
that they don't break and that you don't run into that.
(28:46):
"Oh, this broke." Um, I really like trying to find the
most organic way for them to be friends, and then that
way, hopefully that's just the sustainable solution.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause you can get overly complicated with
those and they can create issues and do things.
Sometimes I feel like Zapier does have a mind
of its own, but, um, but it is, it is nice.
(29:06):
Like you said, to take those things that aren't friends and make them friends.
And I mean, I think that's the thing with like WordPress or any platform is
they're constantly trying to make those relationships on your behalf too.
So it's like the plugin.
It should exist, you know, really being able to vet
those things like, you know, Shopify and add ons.
Like there's all these options out there
(29:27):
that are consistently learning and growing.
And so being able to utilize them and set of just not knowing.
And it's like, Oh, actually this could have been doing a lot for you.
And it's like, could you imagine if it was doing that this whole time?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's really cool.
So as we wrap up.
I always like to ask the question, what brand do you admire the most right now?
(29:48):
And I'd just love to hear from you.
Yeah, I would say Google.
I know that that's kind of a generic answer, um, to some
extent, but I think, you know, there I'm having these custom
illustrators that changed the Google graphic every day.
Amazing.
Like, truly astounding, like making those collabs.
They have a custom illustrator who literally just comes
up with the different Googles to honor different holidays.
(30:10):
Like, I love that they are always changing,
but they're still constantly the same.
Like, I love the, the contrast of those two things, you know, that it's like,
I love that they're big, but they've always done exactly the same thing.
I hate that they're changing their algorithms, but like from a
brand perspective, not like the SEO algorithm perspective, you
(30:31):
know, it's like, I love the creativity that they've never stopped
the creativity side of it and the collaborative side of it.
Um, so I think that's the brand I admire the most in that way that you
can just go to Google today, and it's going to be different than tomorrow.
And it's always different.
And I love that.
I mean, it's, it's definitely fun.
I mean, Google has a, a really, um, fascinating backstory.
(30:55):
Like you said, with all that stuff and how they make all those changes.
So that's cool.
Yeah,
that's really neat.
I think it brings back in that J-Bird collaboration and creativity, you know,
that it's like, what is, you know, how can you keep something consistent
and grounding for someone while also having fluidity and change, you know.
How do you make both exist and honor both in a brand?
(31:16):
Yeah, but I definitely hate them changing their algorithm.
No Yeah, we won't talk about that.
I get it 100 percent No I'm not, I don't recommend that.
I just like the, I really love the Google
OG page with the different illustrations.
That's what it resonates most with me.
Nice.
Nice.
I don't think I ever go to that page anymore though.
Are you kidding?
(31:36):
No.
It's one of my absolute favorite things to do, like Women's Day,
you know, uh, like all these holidays I've never known before.
You know, like Thanksgiving, they're going to have a great
You didn't know about Thanksgiving?
Google illustration for Thanksgiving.
Well, I mean, not until Google showed it to me.
I'm just kidding.
Maybe that was the algorithm though.
That's what it was.
Tech jokes.
(31:56):
Oh, Lordy.
Um, well, that's great.
Well, Jess thank you so much.
This has been a pleasure to have you on.
Um, where can people find out more about you and connect with J-Bird?
Yeah, you can follow on Instagram to see
all the different collaborative J-Birds.
That's @jbirddigitaldesign.
No "s" because I was late in life on that, I guess.
And then I've got my website, jbirddigitaldesigns.com.
(32:20):
That's where I have a lot of, again, collaborative images that
represent different case studies, different clients, different stories.
I mean, one size does not fit all for J-Bird.
And so every single case study and portfolio piece is completely different.
And that really speaks both to our clients and us.
All right.
Well, Jess, thank you so much for coming on.
Thanks.
All right.
Bye.
(32:41):
Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
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