December 18, 2025 • 40 mins
As we close out the year, We Built This Brand takes a step back to reflect on the conversations that defined it.
This special year-end recap revisits the moments, ideas, and voices that shaped our understanding of what it really takes to build something meaningful. From honest conversations about creativity, ambition, and identity to stories of culture, community, and brands that endure, this episode highlights the human side of brand building.
Across these conversations, one theme kept surfacing: joy. Not the polished, performative kind, but the kind that fuels the work, carries us through uncertainty, and keeps the process honest and human, even in a world of constant change and emerging technology.
As we head into a new year, this episode is a reminder of why we build, who we build with, and the stories we’re creating along the way. Thanks for being part of We Built This Brand
Show Highlights:
(00:00) Introduction: Finding Joy in the Journey
(01:06) The Human Side of Brand Building
(03:25) Reframing Value: The Story of Pre-Loved Rings
(06:03) Creative Problem Solving and Identity
(09:11) Rebranding the Anaheim Ducks: A Case Study
(20:13) Exploring the True Meaning of Joy
(22:06) The Impact of 'What Happens Here, Stays Here' Campaign
(25:33) The Beloved Darn Tough Socks Campaign
(32:44) The Phenomenon of K-Pop Demon Hunters
(35:46) Reflections on AI and Creativity
Links:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to, we Built this brand where we pull back the curtain on the people,
the ideas, and the wonderfully messy process of building something that matters.
As I look back over this past year, there's one thing I've
realized, and honestly I probably should have learned it sooner.
This whole thing only works if you can find joy in
it, and I don't mean forced Instagram ready joy.
I'm talking about the kind of joy that sneaks
(00:22):
up on you in the middle of a conversation.
The kind that shows up when something
finally clicks or when a guest drops a truth.
So clean and unexpected that you just sit there and go, well.
All right then 2025 pushed us, all of us founders,
marketers, creatives, to rethink what we're doing and why.
And I discovered in these conversations that joy
(00:44):
isn't something that waits for perfect circumstances.
It's not the reward of the end.
Joy is the fuel.
It's what keeps the work human.
It's what keeps the work honest.
So today I wanna share some of the moments
that shaped my year, and maybe yours too.
And we're starting with a theme at the heart of our show.
(01:06):
The human side of brand building
behind every strategy deck and campaign launch is a real person
navigating doubt, inspiration, identity, values, and sometimes emotions.
We don't always admit out loud, and no one captured this better than James Bray.
(01:28):
When I first started out, I was incredibly curious.
I was super inspired.
I was super passionate.
Then I became jealous.
Um, and I think jealousy is a, an an interesting thing, like jealousy.
Um, I just came back from can, right?
And I went into that and you go into that going, I know
(01:49):
what this is all about, whatever, whatever, whatever.
And you, you might ppo certain things and you know, and it industry's changed.
It's all about data or it's all about media.
It's all about the gamesmanship that's played in these award shows.
But I'll be damned if I didn't walk out of there jealous.
Um, if you're not jealous, um, then you don't want to compete.
(02:10):
And I think if you don't want to compete, then you're, you're not
curious enough, you're not inspired enough, you're not passionate enough.
And I think, um, however you find your way
to get to inspired mine just became jealousy.
Um, and that in some ways, that's like, that
may not, it may not be the most productive form.
I, I mean, if, if you're a part therapist, you probably tell me that it
(02:30):
isn't the most productive way to approach anything is through jealousy, but.
For a big part of my career, jealousy is what drove me to kind of push harder.
And you know, when I went off to Fallon, I was jealous of the
incredible talent in the, in the work that was being done there.
And I wanted so desperately to be somewhere on the same page with those guys.
(02:55):
Um.
And so like, you know, I think the key to any young person who's out
there looking for a way to, to be inspired or to find that thing is just.
Be honest with yourself, and it took me a long time to be honest.
And the honest thing was I'm just a jealous person.
What I love most about that moment from James is how honest it is.
(03:15):
Creativity isn't always pretty and sometimes it starts
with the uncomfortable stuff, the ambition, the insecurity,
the spark that says I wanna do better, and that honestly.
Connects beautifully with our next story, one about love loss, legacy,
and the meaning we attach to the things we keep and the things we let go.
This is for richer jewelry.
(03:36):
You, you said something that I, I found really interesting.
You said pre loved rings.
How does that positioning play into it?
And, and I think I know the answer, but I wanna know
your perspective on saying things like pre loved.
In your marketing and messaging,
I think it's important to acknowledge that the ring itself,
like just because something ended, it doesn't make it bad.
(03:59):
Like what?
What all has happened?
And so to call something, I think that there's this idea
that the ring becomes damaged or it's like there's this
negativity associated with it and like that's just not true.
Rings are.
They are things independent of the meanings that we give it, that we give to it.
So we, we call it free loved because it was pre loved it, it was
(04:23):
loved, it, it symbolized this love for this couple at this time,
and it no longer does, but now it can create that symbol for you.
And it still, it, it can continue to have a happy ending.
Just as you know, you are, you're creating this happy ending.
Pre-war or preed, it's pre loved and you can continue to love it.
(04:44):
And we also just as a side too, that's, I love that Brittany.
I'm like, let's use that in our social this week.
That was so good.
Um, we also don't only get rings, you know,
that are the product of a divorce, right.
We've had several that are the product of an upgrade, which means like.
Pre loved, like your spouse is gonna upgrade your
engagement ring, which means there's a lot of love there.
We get some that the folks, maybe they just didn't like the
(05:05):
style for themselves, but they're still planning on getting
married or they still are married or even, you know, they might
have inherited it from somebody else and it isn't their style.
So we do source from a bunch of places and that kind of encapsulates that.
Like there isn't bad juju.
The ring is.
It's a gorgeous piece of jewelry.
Ready for, ready for its forever home,
I think.
I think that's a good, um, a good point.
'cause I could see how people would be maybe off put by it
(05:29):
if it was just used or if it was, you know, pre-warn just
doesn't have the same cozy ring to it that pre loved does.
And.
I think that's a, that's a great perspective on it too.
'cause it's not just always a divorce or always, you know,
someone passing away that you're getting rid of this ring.
It's other reasons too.
(05:49):
What I adore about that segment is how it reframes value
meaning doesn't disappear when circumstances change.
Sometimes the meaning becomes the bridge into the next chapter.
And when you think about creative work, problem solving operates the same way.
The first idea isn't always the right one, but the meaning behind it can lead
you somewhere unexpected, and that is where Liz Beeler comes in with one of
(06:11):
my favorite explanations of the creative problem solving process all year.
When I think about creative problem solving, it's the awareness that
there are many right ways to a solution, and it's about finding.
The best solution for that circumstance.
Okay.
And so whether that's for a particular brief that a client gives us, um, which
(06:37):
is interesting because I think that oftentimes we have, I'll call it like the
negotiation with a client over a brief of what are you actually trying to solve?
You know, sometimes, um, you know, often when clients come to you
and ask you like, this is what I need, you, like, paint in this box.
You go, okay, but why?
Right.
What are we trying to do?
And that's that moment of like, we, you know,
(06:58):
are, we're accountable to impacting business.
And so it's important that we ask that question, and
that's part of the creative problem solving question.
It starts, or, uh, process, it starts very early from
that first moment of conversation, that first brief.
So it's not just that creative output, um, which is,
you know, ultimately how it's represented in the world.
(07:21):
But it starts there of like.
If there is a unique business challenge, like, um, when you look
at Dairy Queen, which is, you know, they are known, and I mean like
childhood love for Dairy Queen and, uh, and softer there, but that's
what they were known for and they've expanded their whole product lineup.
How do you support a brand that's gone from, you
(07:43):
know, years and years of being known for treats?
To expand into other food, you know, like, uh, your, your chicken strips.
Like how do you support them in that change and without losing your core base.
And so to me, like what a cool problem to solve, right?
Because well, who doesn't love both those things?
I mean, so when I think about it, that's like in particular to a brand,
(08:07):
there's also creative problem solving of like what to know about.
Today, I think that we're in a very interesting time
where you can express and discover your identity in so
many different ways, and I think it's, it's amazing.
Ultimately, identity is core to who we are as individuals,
(08:28):
but it's also, you know, we talk about connection.
Identity is what brings people together.
It's how communities form because of some similar, you know, aspect
of their identity or beliefs or, you know, even just interests.
Like, Hey, I love sail, so I, you know,
surround myself with people that love it too.
All of those things are considerations for how you creatively problem solve.
(08:52):
There's no kind of two similar problems.
I love how Liz breaks that down.
Creativity is exploration identity as a lens.
It's such a grounded way to think about possibility, but
sometimes creativity has to scale from an idea in a room to a
moment that reaches millions and that takes a different kind of.
Courage, which brings us to Michelle Fisher and one of the
(09:14):
coolest rebrand stories we talked about all year, and one
of my favorite hockey teams of all time, the Anaheim Ducks.
What's really unique about this NHL team is that it started in Disney and it.
Started as a movie and it turned into a real team and a lot of the
nation and globally actually, um, there's a lot of ducks fans globally.
(09:35):
They were brought up on this movie and there's such a strong
connection with them, uh, with Disney and with that actually
came with its own kinds of perception of it being this kind of.
Kid friendly, non-aggressive, him hockey team.
And uh, they really changed.
I think they kind of shed that perception a bit,
(09:58):
um, once they, uh, won the Stanley Cup in 2007.
And, you know, there was also too, there was a, um, uh, like a handful of years
they were where they like made it to the Western conference, like championships
and, you know, there were a very notable name in its own right in the NHL.
(10:19):
But, uh, in recent years, you know, they've,
I think it like up until 2018 they were like.
Really, really competitive.
And then they came to us, um, at a really interesting time for them.
They were on the onset of rebranding themselves.
(10:40):
I don't know if you, you follow hockey or, or not, but I didn't actually.
Um, I got just really geeking into it.
So the ducks, they were going through a rebrand
with the logo and they were creating this.
Um, amazing kind of mixed use space around it with
entertainment, restaurants, you know, um, that kind of thing.
(11:01):
And then, um, they were also in a rebuild period, so they have a really young
team that is, you know, they're, they're coaching and, uh, and developing.
They really want to reinvigorate.
Fandom, the fans and get people into the Arena Honda Center.
(11:22):
And it's really challenging when you have a team that's
rebuilding and the players, and that was the challenge.
Um, it was to get these fans excited for all the foundational
things that they're, that they're making, like with the in
game experience, that new complex I was telling you about.
And then the rebrand, which so many fans.
(11:44):
I like completely loved.
They returned back to that like mass duck face, um, versus the web.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's so iconic too, you know?
It also like has the heritage from the movies as well.
Yeah.
It's a, it's a good throwback.
Yeah.
And then, um, I noticed the color, the color selection
for this rebrand was heavy on orange as opposed to the,
(12:07):
the purple and green that maybe we're more familiar with.
Um, so what, what led to that?
Mm-hmm.
Color change, I'm sure that was probably a much more
lengthy discussion than most people would assume.
Fans were very much in love with their purple and teal.
But one of the things that the, the organization really wanted
to lean into is their, uh, loyalty and love for Orange County.
(12:30):
And Orange County is known for the oranges,
like their history is in like orange groves.
So they really leaned into that color and they knew there
was gonna be a lot of kind of pushback from fans, but they
went, they boldly and, you know, with pride went with orange.
It
is definitely a good call.
Um, so, so what has been the response then?
And you, you said you were anticipating
(12:50):
some pushback, but how has it been received?
Oh, well, you know what, um, maybe I can kind of take a step
back about what like Battery was kind of, uh, partner to do here.
So they had these kind of pieces in place, but with the big task of
invigorating, reinvigorating the fans and the players being kind of.
(13:14):
Subject to change all the time.
Like we, we couldn't lean into the players and the team.
So the, the challenge to us was how do we
bring back Pride fandom to our fan base?
And we're like, you know, orange County is.
Where it's at.
(13:34):
Like I'm actually from Orange County.
I grew up there.
I spent some, I spent my weekends in Compton, but lived in Orange County.
And with that, and I know that like the people, the
residents of Orange County, they're such a, such a diverse.
Um, population of people and, but then people from the outside
don't really know that, you know, orange County is often kind of
(13:58):
labeled with, uh, you know, kinda like dated stereotypes of like.
Through the health size of Orange County,
um, Laguna Beach, when that was a thing.
Beautiful beaches, very cush lifestyle, OneNote type of people.
And Orange County is very, very, very different from that.
And we want to lean into that and kind of fight off stereotypes
(14:21):
and bring this kind of more edgy, gritty persona to, to the ducks.
So we had this, uh, platform line called You're Entering Orange Country.
That, that that was our kind of brand platform to kind of set off
bringing back fandom, not just core fans, but people from Orange County
who could relate to this and say, yes, we are, or we are Orange County.
(14:46):
There's a lot of things to be proud of there.
If the first theme is about humanity and
identity, then this next theme is about longevity.
Building something that can actually last, sustainable growth instead of hype.
And to kick us off, we're starting with joy.
Not surprise joy, not forced positivity, joy, but
(15:09):
the kind of joy that transforms a job into a colon.
Here's Dale Dupree.
I noticed, you know, you talk a lot about the, the joy of selling.
It's dude sales is not always joyful.
You know that.
And I, I think it's counter-cultural almost to talk
about it being a joy and something people can love doing.
Because for me, like I know through my career,
(15:30):
it's been like, all right, this is the job.
This is the career I chose.
This is the path I went down.
This is what I'm stuck in.
For me, that's a challenge.
So tell me more about like.
That finding of joy?
Like what, what does that mean within sales to you?
And I mean, you've said a lot of it I think here,
but I'd love you to just to kind of like sum it up.
Yeah.
Life is sales and sales is life is the way that I look at it.
I don't box sales into like some kind of compartment.
(15:53):
I see sales as like a literal motion of life.
Mm-hmm.
That in sales.
Just like in my life, I'm gonna meet strangers and have the opportunity
to be impactful to those people, to give them something, which is
again, going back to the principles of serving leadership, but also
to the principles of just being a good person and living a good life.
(16:15):
So if we, if we really look at like life is, we wake up
in the morning, we do, you know, eight cold plunges and.
You know, 7,000 pushups or whatever y'all do, and
roll a banana on your face, smell that banana water.
And uh, and, and then we, we go to work, right?
We eat lunch, we get outta work, we hang out with
friends, watch severance, like yeah, whatever.
(16:38):
Life is very predictable, ultimately.
Yeah.
It's the same thing over and over again.
And it's very simple things.
And those things do what for us.
They bring us joy.
Mm-hmm.
Except for work.
Right, and, and the way that you described it, I think
it's beautiful because it's, you know, it's like.
Life hasn't been good to me, bro.
When I think of what you just said about sales,
like, but I still find joy in life all the time.
(17:00):
I think that the, the real opportunity is finding the failure.
That's what brings you joy.
I love it when somebody says something like, you know what?
I don't like what you're sending me in the mail.
It's weird.
It.
It happens.
It's rare, but it happens.
I love that.
I love to say to that person, sorry that it came across that way for you.
I'll, I'll cease and desist, hang up on them instead of
(17:21):
trying to like do something crazy with them, and then
immediately I'll do a little research, call the front desk.
Hey, what's Jeff's favorite thing?
Hmm.
And then, and then like a ghost or a fart in the wind, right?
Like I'm in and out and no one even knows I existed.
Mm-hmm.
I'll send him something without my name attached to it, nothing, and just
say, Hey, someone out here wants you to know that you're appreciated.
Because when I hear some people say things like that,
(17:42):
I think, man, they don't get enough joy in their life.
They don't have the things that I have.
They don't have a. Incredible wife.
They don't have two amazing kids that I shouldn't even have.
Bro, I should be dead.
My story is, is that 2014 I should have been gone.
Hmm.
I'm a miracle.
I'm a product of grace.
(18:02):
So when I think of joy, I think, bro, everything in life is joy for me, right?
Again, because of my story, because of the things I've experienced,
because of the fact that I shouldn't be sitting here with you mm-hmm.
Right now, which gives me chills every time when I think about it.
Just how miraculous my existence is, and I totally take advantage of it.
I eat too much.
(18:23):
I play too much.
Right.
But, but I, I love my life.
I love the good, I love the bad.
Mm-hmm.
I love the indifference.
I love the ugly, all of it.
I find joy in it.
Instead of stress and anxiety.
I'm a patient person.
I seek out moments where I, I have to test that and challenge that.
And in sales, I think, like when you make the
(18:43):
commitment to it, what you have to understand is that.
Because it's a part of life.
That's why it's the hardest thing for people to do because me and my preference
is I would prefer that my life look like this, but I am not the driver.
And that's the thing that most people don't understand.
Like I might impact the decisions through my action and my
free will if we even have that in the first place, right?
(19:06):
Sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but sure,
I have to be the one that makes the decisions.
But man, like if I could just like surrender.
And die to myself every day.
Mm-hmm.
My life would be full of joy and those are
the decisions that I made a long time ago.
You know, so a kid is getting outta hand in the, in at the home front,
(19:26):
standing up in his chair, you know, screaming and yelling at his mom like I.
Sure there's, there's an appropriate way to, to reprimand
that child and to help that child learn versus one that's not.
But you can find joy in that moment.
Just like when someone tells you to F off and never email me again.
You can find joy in that moment.
I'm going to literally, I'm gonna write an email, I'm gonna
(19:48):
print it, I'm gonna send in the mail, and with a little
note of that, says, Hey, you said never to email you again.
So I sent this one in the mail and, and literally when I call back
or behind that guy, I like, either they have a restraining order,
you know, like it's over, or they got a really good moment from that.
(20:09):
Even if it wasn't like a chuckle, it was more like impressive.
Mm-hmm.
Or intense, you know, I can't believe this guy actually did this.
Yeah.
Which hopefully just opens people's mind to what joy really is.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I mean, the, the way you're describing it too,
it's not just, um, and I've always thought of joy this way
too, of like, it's, it's not just about having fun, joy.
(20:32):
Joy is really more than just being pleased with something in the moment or.
You know, something that like what a Marie Kondo, like sparks joy in you.
You know, it's not just something that makes you happy.
Joy can be something that you feel even when things are tough.
And having that, that ability to identify that, I think that, I
think that's a great perspective on it because a lot of people,
(20:53):
including myself, you know, you're gonna get down on yourself.
You're gonna get frustrated, oh, I didn't close this, I didn't close that.
Oh, this didn't go my way.
And all of a sudden things start to fall apart.
And it's really easy to, um, get stuck in those moments.
And then just to give up entirely.
Um.
So I think, I think that's a, that's a really
good perspective on it, so that's awesome.
What Dale says there, that really hit me hard this
(21:15):
year because Joy doesn't eliminate the hard parts.
It redeems them, it gives them shape and meaning.
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(22:06):
And if we're talking about giving meaning to a moment, few people
have done that At the scale of Arne DeGeorge, whose work helped shape
the cultural identity of an entire city, let's head to Las Vegas.
I think the.
The really, really fun stuff started when we, when we started
with the positioning of adult freedom and we worked from there
(22:27):
and, and one of the, one of the early campaigns, even before what
happens here, stays here, you know, was all based on freedom.
We had an ad called Freedom from the Man and Freedom from Reality.
And, uh, a few ads like that that.
That were really, really nice pieces and, uh, and we thought we were
gonna go down that direction and then, and then something happened.
I think nine 11 happened or something.
(22:48):
Uh, you know, something else that disrupts you.
And, and we're, we're very much like when, when something like that happens,
you know, we kind of stop everything because we know people don't really wanna.
People don't really wanna, you know, live the advertising world.
They wanna, they want a more comfortable world.
So we, you know, we, we do something different.
And that made us basically kind of take a look at it again.
(23:09):
And then, then we started going down the road
of, uh, of what happens here, stays here.
And, uh, and, and so it, for us.
Was a very, very, was a very good thing because what happens
here, stays here, um, allowed you to do things that no other
tourism campaign had ever done by, by, by a wide margin.
And, um, we can get into that.
(23:33):
It basically allowed you to not show the destination.
You know, it allowed you to use your imagination
as to what your experience was gonna be.
What happens here?
Stacy, we didn't tell you what happens,
right?
Right.
So you could be, what happens to you, could be
anything you can come up with in your, in your head.
And so that was the magic of that campaign in the beginning.
(23:55):
And, and eventually we started to show some of the destination.
And when we did it was great because then we showed it in a way that showed
the, the kind of tricks and games and fun you could have being somebody else.
Or, or doing something couldn't do at home.
And so, so we expanded it down the line and, um, you know, we, we made
it last for a long time by really, really kind of just bringing it along.
(24:19):
Bringing it along.
Bringing it along pretty much as far as we can bring it.
Yeah.
So a place where you can achieve what you want to achieve or do
do that crazy thing you've always wanted to do, which has been
perpetuated by Hollywood and, um, culture just over the years too.
I mean, what happens here stays here is ubiquitous with the city now.
I, that's what I think of when I think of Vegas.
(24:39):
Well, it, it's in, you know, even before we, we kind of took ownership
of it, it was in people's heads as far as traveling went, you know what?
Stay, what happens on the road, stays on the road.
You know, we just knew that it was perfect, that it was a perfect truth for us.
And truth super important in, in advertising because
you gotta get in there and inside people and everything.
And so, so they.
(25:01):
They, you know, they, they bought into that because, 'cause they knew it
anyways and they knew that it, there was no better place than Vegas for that.
So, um, yeah, that's how it really, really took off and it became
part of, of, of what everybody thinks about Vegas and part of the
city and, and part of the culture, which is pretty incredible.
That's one of those stories I will never get tired of hearing a single line.
(25:24):
What happens here stays here reshaped the
way an entire culture thinks about a place.
But not all brand love comes from massive campaigns.
Sometimes it comes from something small,
personal, unexpected, meaningful, like socks.
Really good socks aren't good socks if you're being honest.
Here's Patrick Collins.
One that immediately comes to mind just because I'm in the
(25:46):
middle of it, um, or I'm in the middle of sort of year or two.
An extension is a campaign that we've been working on, a brand
campaign that we've been working on with a brand called Darn Tough.
And they are a sock brand family owned,
based in Vermont and just extremely beloved.
So it was one of those, you know, sometimes we'll get a, we joke
here, like when we win a piece of New Bays, someone's either
(26:10):
friend or parent, I mean hopefully we're all very excited too,
but there's always that like, oh my God, my dad's freaking out.
You're working with like cat footwear or whatever.
It's this one with darn tough.
We had a lot of, a lot of our team parents.
I said Beloved Sock brand, but it's also, you know, they
(26:30):
sell at REI, they sell at a lot of local independent stores.
It's a big like hiking sock brand.
Um, and they're extremely comfortable.
Comfortable.
And they also have a lifetime warranty.
So there's just like all these great things that check a lot of boxes
and a lot of boxes for like parents of adult children and something.
(26:55):
For their first ever brand campaign.
So they've had just like this consistent, you know, they have a
great marketing and brand team, but in terms of working with an
outside agency, they've just had consistent growth over time.
But they, similar to Chaco, we're starting to reach that sort of like,
you know, we can stay on this path and that's great, but we have such
(27:15):
great product, such great, really incredible internal company culture.
Um.
Just so much brand love that we feel like there's audiences
sitting, like whether it's a town over or you know, they're in
Vermont all the way over in California that just would love us,
project our product if we gave them a chance to learn who we're.
And so, you know, from what I've just said, brand
(27:37):
awareness, obviously a big part of that brief.
And we developed a campaign for them that's called Darn It.
So it's, it ran last year.
Um, and
I love the pun.
Um, and is, you know, within their brand name is already.
(28:02):
We, the big sort of unlock there and, and something that I think
is another really important part of my strategic practice is that
like in person immersion or, you know, not can't always be in
person, but in terms of really getting to know the stakeholders,
you know, it's not just about like absorbing old brand books and.
(28:22):
Like the consumer segmentation that a different
agency did and piecing everything together.
That's a big part of it.
But usually like that, we like to say like hidden gems over here, right?
Like we like to find a brand's hidden gem and usually
that's not gonna come reading 500 pages of different decks.
It really requires like those one-on-one meetings, those conversations with.
(28:46):
The employee that's been there for like three
months, and it's like, what drew, what drew you here?
Why, why did you apply for a job at this company?
Um, and so we flew out to Vermont, uh, our
team and spent a couple days with them.
We got to walk around their mill.
They make everything there, it's all, it's all American
made and got to meet the founder, um, and hear about
sort of his vision and how the company organically grew.
(29:09):
And in doing all of that, you know, we knew about the warranty, but
it's something that's just like, it's nice, you know, a warranty at
that point is sort of just like a nice to have and warranties right now.
Within consumer goods are so confusing
because usually they don't mean much, right?
Like there's so much fine print and we, when we were at
their, the mill, we went to their warranty department program.
(29:30):
And it was just incredible.
Like the, we each got to open a, a bag of socks that had been returned to
each of our teammates, and we're sitting and there's like dogs all over.
It's just like the most like picturesque
sort of little place that you'd imagine.
You're like, oh my God, these businesses still exist.
I can't believe that.
And we open them up and in every single one is
like a letter and it's, it's like I bore these.
(29:52):
Through throughout my entire college experience,
and they went with me to three different continents.
And I'm so sad to give them up, but there's a hole
in this one, or it's ripped here, or it burned here.
Um, and I mean, just the most incredible stories of like wearing them, um.
You know, in Afghanistan or like to their wedding and just, just crazy.
(30:17):
So an incredible amount of brand love and they get these
wedding invitations, but within that, they also had in on
the wall in the back some of their favorite letters and.
They had pinned these socks that were like the funniest stories.
So it was like one in particular that was like very disgusting.
But the dog, it was like this, the sock may look
(30:38):
okay, but my dog ate it and then it came out.
The other, and they were like, I don't know if this fits your
warranty guidelines, but I'd love, this is my favorite pair of socks.
And because it's a one sock you have for life,
they're, they're just like, I want the replacement.
I paid for it, you know, I want, I want this sock.
And so we came home.
(30:59):
And in finding and then covering those gems, we're like, okay, so
one thing that's clear, we all felt so inspired being there and the,
and the company culture, which is so important, I think like the
output of a company, you know, the output of a co company culture.
If you could successfully let the world know
that through brand communications, job well done.
And so they had, they checked that box, they checked this like insane rabid
(31:22):
fan base and consumer love and people that like aren't just, you know,
the average return or warranty is like fill out, you know, print out the
return label, send it in, and yet people are, have watercolor paintings.
They've done these socks.
And then lastly, as we sort of looked at like the landscape and the competitive
landscape and the outdoor landscape, we were like, okay, everyone's warranties.
(31:45):
Return policies are crazy.
So much fine print, they're all going away.
And so we sort of like wrapped that up into like,
what's the pointiest campaign we could do there?
And it was darn it because it was, okay, we need to build brand awareness,
so let's get the name in the, in the campaign tagline and platform.
Darn.
We wanna focus on the consumer stories and the
consumer love and make people really feel seen.
(32:07):
So we built it all around these little stories and we've just
filmed three more last week of sort of hyperbolic scenarios where.
Where people are, you know, where their socks are getting destroyed.
But ultimately the most important unlock
was we need to double down on the warranty.
So the whole idea is like, life's tough,
our socks are tougher guaranteed for life.
So it's all pushing.
(32:27):
It's like taking that emotional side of the
strategy and pushing it entirely into like.
Because if you can't go all emotion, you still need to functional.
Like, why should I buy this
product?
I still laugh at how quickly those socks won me over, but Patrick's
bigger point, the emotional truth behind a brand, that's what sticks.
And when you zoom out, authenticity and emotion are inseparable
(32:47):
from culture, which is why this next conversation, which.
Hi Randolph and Katie.
Sue is such a perfect bridge because if you wanna understand modern
brand building, you have to understand niche, community and fandom.
And yes, sometimes that even means listening or watching K-Pop Demon
hunters, as I have at my house probably a thousand billion times.
Which side note is also the top like five songs
(33:10):
in my Apple Music Tops Top music playlist.
And it's not because of me.
Because of my kids.
But regardless, let's just get into the clip before I embarrass myself further.
The biggest trap most founders fall into during these markets
is if they start to see success on one side, they think, oh,
I should go and launch those three other companion products.
It's like, no, just focus on the one thing, get exceptionally good at it.
(33:34):
Have that be your core business until it can fund your next thing.
'cause then you're going into multiples, then you're really
thinking about the value of the company in the long term.
But yeah, I, I. I think this is like, this is like the kingmaker era, right?
If you can carve out like X percentage of any industry in any
company today, you could technically, you could do anything.
(33:54):
You could do anything, right?
I am absolutely obsessed with K-Pop demon hunters.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
And number one, it's incredible.
Like my son can't stop singing the songs.
It is the only thing that plays in the car,
and the thing that's appealing about it is.
Not only is the IP incredibly attractive and appealing to
(34:15):
a multi-generational household, uhhuh, it also has so many
legs for sequels, prequels, product, consumer products.
Um, you're talking about a very rich universe that
has suddenly been created, exploded overnight, global.
He tapped into K-pop, tapped into music, tapped into pop culture,
and has defined this next chapter for a young adult audience.
(34:36):
Think of how many children watch that.
Mm-hmm.
And that has become a core memory.
And for the rest of all of us parents, we will be buying those.
Toys and products.
Right.
So to me, I feel like if you can generate a brand or an ip Yeah.
That has that longstanding effect, that
hits that many notes and that many genres.
(34:56):
I mean, that's incredible, right?
Like if you think about it, think about that pitch.
It's about.
Like demon hunters who are K-pop bands saving the world.
Right.
I
know if I, if Ty and I were to go and pitch that today, we would, we'd be great.
But like, still, still needs to be like that.
Yes.
But the fact that it landed and it worked to me,
(35:17):
I feel like that's what brands are supposed to do.
They're supposed to affect you, not just emotionally.
There's a lasting impact and you vote with it and you pay for it.
Like.
I know I'm gonna buy a lot of that now.
I mean, I already have those songs living in
my head re absolutely rent free right now.
Right?
Absolutely.
So that to me is an incredible universe that just
got created hyper relevant and all of us are in it.
(35:39):
Like that moment I said that, all of us knew exactly what that was.
Uhhuh?
Yeah.
That is a powerful brand in IP
theme number three, building brands in the age of AI and constant change.
The world is changing fast.
New tools, new expectations, new ways of reaching audiences,
(36:01):
but underneath all of it, creativity is still human.
To close out this best of, I wanna share two moments
from Alex Ganji that helped me make sense of the year.
First, how AI fits into the creative process.
And second why the wonder hasn't gone anywhere.
Now here's Alex.
I think you touched on a really great place where ai, um, is, comes in
(36:23):
handy for a lot of the individuals, is it's in the brainstorming process.
It's in that, it's in that part of the storyboarding.
It's in the part of visualizing, it's in the part of.
Uh, thinking about what you wanna create, uh, you can even
just, honestly, just talking to a chat bot sometimes can get
you a lot closer to, uh, and I'm even talking about text.
I'm not even going into visuals can get you closer
(36:44):
to an idea of what you're trying to sound out now.
You know what?
It's right.
I mean, like, there was a, there was a thing
when I was in, I was an English major, right?
And when we were doing writing, a teacher always said to me, you know.
Um, someone can tell you what's wrong, but they can't tell you how to fix it.
And I think AI is the same way.
You know, even if you're working with ai, you know, you can
(37:04):
get to a point where you know, you're like, okay, where?
What is the answer?
The answer is the answer that you come up with.
It's not the answer that AI's gonna come up with.
Once you understand AI is a tool, you can
start to appreciate the imagination it unlocks.
Let's go onto that second
clip.
There was so much fun stuff you could do with
it even two years ago because it was this like.
(37:26):
Uh, it wasn't in this area, which has, it was
creating this content that you have never seen before.
It was weird, but it had a, a wonder to it at the same time.
Do you know what I mean?
It wasn't just always, it wasn't perfect, but it was perfect in its
imperfection because there was some really fun stuff you could do, which.
(37:49):
It's now gone almost, you know, especially if we're just talking about video
generative content, which I think is like one small aspect of ai and honestly
not even the most interesting aspect, you know, it's, that's just like,
oh, we can make stuff for cheaper, we could read and more people can do it.
Okay, cool.
That's what, that's been happening for years and years and years with like.
Film cameras turning to digital cameras, turning to like,
(38:11):
oh, now I can basically shoot a film on my cell phone.
And now, now it's like, oh, now I can just imagine a film
and type it into a thing and it comes out with a film.
You know, it's like, and then cut it together.
And you still need to have some basic skills to do it.
But of course that's just, that's just the direction
that all this, that content has been heading in.
So none of that is, it's, it's intriguing.
I love seeing AI films, um, and I don't love the ones that replace the.
(38:39):
You know.
It's a tool.
It's another tool to create content.
Basically, in my mind, artificial intelligence can really bring a different it.
It can speed up your workflow a lot.
As I think back on these conversations, I keep coming back to the idea of joy.
And I know in the year where the economy feels uncertain, politics feel
(39:00):
exhausting, and every phone notification is just one more thing to worry about.
Joy can sound almost silly, but joy isn't surface level.
Happiness.
Joy is purpose.
Joy is meaning.
Joy is the thing that carries you through the heavy seasons
and reminds you why you're building anything at all.
Every guest you heard today brought that to the table in big ways
(39:23):
and in small ones, creativity, authenticity, community courage.
They all flow from the same well.
So as we wrap up 2025, my hope for you is simple.
Find joy in what you're doing.
Find joy in the people you're doing it with, and find
joy in the stories you're creating along the way.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for listening and we'll be back soon in the new year.
(39:45):
Thank you for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe on your player of choice.
You can also keep up with a podcast on our website at We built this brand.com.
If you like this episode, please give the podcast a five star review and make
sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.
(40:23):
Like looking back over it all, it's just, it's crazy
to me how much we've done, how many people we've seen.
Like I'm just so grateful for just the opportunity to be here
and to be doing this on these cameras and everything, man.
Like it's, it's humbling.
Pun intended.
Welcome to, we Built this brand where we pull back the curtain on the people,
the ideas, and the wonderfully messy process of building something that matters.
As I look back over this past year, there's one thing I've
realized, and honestly I probably should have learned it sooner.
This whole thing only works if you can find joy in
it, and I don't mean forced Instagram ready joy.
I'm talking about the kind of joy that sneaks
(00:22):
up on you in the middle of a conversation.
The kind that shows up when something
finally clicks or when a guest drops a truth.
So clean and unexpected that you just sit there and go, well.
All right then 2025 pushed us, all of us founders,
marketers, creatives, to rethink what we're doing and why.
And I discovered in these conversations that joy
(00:44):
isn't something that waits for perfect circumstances.
It's not the reward of the end.
Joy is the fuel.
It's what keeps the work human.
It's what keeps the work honest.
So today I wanna share some of the moments
that shaped my year, and maybe yours too.
And we're starting with a theme at the heart of our show.
(01:06):
The human side of brand building
behind every strategy deck and campaign launch is a real person
navigating doubt, inspiration, identity, values, and sometimes emotions.
We don't always admit out loud, and no one captured this better than James Bray.
(01:28):
When I first started out, I was incredibly curious.
I was super inspired.
I was super passionate.
Then I became jealous.
Um, and I think jealousy is a, an an interesting thing, like jealousy.
Um, I just came back from can, right?
And I went into that and you go into that going, I know
(01:49):
what this is all about, whatever, whatever, whatever.
And you, you might ppo certain things and you know, and it industry's changed.
It's all about data or it's all about media.
It's all about the gamesmanship that's played in these award shows.
But I'll be damned if I didn't walk out of there jealous.
Um, if you're not jealous, um, then you don't want to compete.
(02:10):
And I think if you don't want to compete, then you're, you're not
curious enough, you're not inspired enough, you're not passionate enough.
And I think, um, however you find your way
to get to inspired mine just became jealousy.
Um, and that in some ways, that's like, that
may not, it may not be the most productive form.
I, I mean, if, if you're a part therapist, you probably tell me that it
(02:30):
isn't the most productive way to approach anything is through jealousy, but.
For a big part of my career, jealousy is what drove me to kind of push harder.
And you know, when I went off to Fallon, I was jealous of the
incredible talent in the, in the work that was being done there.
And I wanted so desperately to be somewhere on the same page with those guys.
(02:55):
Um.
And so like, you know, I think the key to any young person who's out
there looking for a way to, to be inspired or to find that thing is just.
Be honest with yourself, and it took me a long time to be honest.
And the honest thing was I'm just a jealous person.
What I love most about that moment from James is how honest it is.
(03:15):
Creativity isn't always pretty and sometimes it starts
with the uncomfortable stuff, the ambition, the insecurity,
the spark that says I wanna do better, and that honestly.
Connects beautifully with our next story, one about love loss, legacy,
and the meaning we attach to the things we keep and the things we let go.
This is for richer jewelry.
(03:36):
You, you said something that I, I found really interesting.
You said pre loved rings.
How does that positioning play into it?
And, and I think I know the answer, but I wanna know
your perspective on saying things like pre loved.
In your marketing and messaging,
I think it's important to acknowledge that the ring itself,
like just because something ended, it doesn't make it bad.
(03:59):
Like what?
What all has happened?
And so to call something, I think that there's this idea
that the ring becomes damaged or it's like there's this
negativity associated with it and like that's just not true.
Rings are.
They are things independent of the meanings that we give it, that we give to it.
So we, we call it free loved because it was pre loved it, it was
(04:23):
loved, it, it symbolized this love for this couple at this time,
and it no longer does, but now it can create that symbol for you.
And it still, it, it can continue to have a happy ending.
Just as you know, you are, you're creating this happy ending.
Pre-war or preed, it's pre loved and you can continue to love it.
(04:44):
And we also just as a side too, that's, I love that Brittany.
I'm like, let's use that in our social this week.
That was so good.
Um, we also don't only get rings, you know,
that are the product of a divorce, right.
We've had several that are the product of an upgrade, which means like.
Pre loved, like your spouse is gonna upgrade your
engagement ring, which means there's a lot of love there.
We get some that the folks, maybe they just didn't like the
(05:05):
style for themselves, but they're still planning on getting
married or they still are married or even, you know, they might
have inherited it from somebody else and it isn't their style.
So we do source from a bunch of places and that kind of encapsulates that.
Like there isn't bad juju.
The ring is.
It's a gorgeous piece of jewelry.
Ready for, ready for its forever home,
I think.
I think that's a good, um, a good point.
'cause I could see how people would be maybe off put by it
(05:29):
if it was just used or if it was, you know, pre-warn just
doesn't have the same cozy ring to it that pre loved does.
And.
I think that's a, that's a great perspective on it too.
'cause it's not just always a divorce or always, you know,
someone passing away that you're getting rid of this ring.
It's other reasons too.
(05:49):
What I adore about that segment is how it reframes value
meaning doesn't disappear when circumstances change.
Sometimes the meaning becomes the bridge into the next chapter.
And when you think about creative work, problem solving operates the same way.
The first idea isn't always the right one, but the meaning behind it can lead
you somewhere unexpected, and that is where Liz Beeler comes in with one of
(06:11):
my favorite explanations of the creative problem solving process all year.
When I think about creative problem solving, it's the awareness that
there are many right ways to a solution, and it's about finding.
The best solution for that circumstance.
Okay.
And so whether that's for a particular brief that a client gives us, um, which
(06:37):
is interesting because I think that oftentimes we have, I'll call it like the
negotiation with a client over a brief of what are you actually trying to solve?
You know, sometimes, um, you know, often when clients come to you
and ask you like, this is what I need, you, like, paint in this box.
You go, okay, but why?
Right.
What are we trying to do?
And that's that moment of like, we, you know,
(06:58):
are, we're accountable to impacting business.
And so it's important that we ask that question, and
that's part of the creative problem solving question.
It starts, or, uh, process, it starts very early from
that first moment of conversation, that first brief.
So it's not just that creative output, um, which is,
you know, ultimately how it's represented in the world.
(07:21):
But it starts there of like.
If there is a unique business challenge, like, um, when you look
at Dairy Queen, which is, you know, they are known, and I mean like
childhood love for Dairy Queen and, uh, and softer there, but that's
what they were known for and they've expanded their whole product lineup.
How do you support a brand that's gone from, you
(07:43):
know, years and years of being known for treats?
To expand into other food, you know, like, uh, your, your chicken strips.
Like how do you support them in that change and without losing your core base.
And so to me, like what a cool problem to solve, right?
Because well, who doesn't love both those things?
I mean, so when I think about it, that's like in particular to a brand,
(08:07):
there's also creative problem solving of like what to know about.
Today, I think that we're in a very interesting time
where you can express and discover your identity in so
many different ways, and I think it's, it's amazing.
Ultimately, identity is core to who we are as individuals,
(08:28):
but it's also, you know, we talk about connection.
Identity is what brings people together.
It's how communities form because of some similar, you know, aspect
of their identity or beliefs or, you know, even just interests.
Like, Hey, I love sail, so I, you know,
surround myself with people that love it too.
All of those things are considerations for how you creatively problem solve.
(08:52):
There's no kind of two similar problems.
I love how Liz breaks that down.
Creativity is exploration identity as a lens.
It's such a grounded way to think about possibility, but
sometimes creativity has to scale from an idea in a room to a
moment that reaches millions and that takes a different kind of.
Courage, which brings us to Michelle Fisher and one of the
(09:14):
coolest rebrand stories we talked about all year, and one
of my favorite hockey teams of all time, the Anaheim Ducks.
What's really unique about this NHL team is that it started in Disney and it.
Started as a movie and it turned into a real team and a lot of the
nation and globally actually, um, there's a lot of ducks fans globally.
(09:35):
They were brought up on this movie and there's such a strong
connection with them, uh, with Disney and with that actually
came with its own kinds of perception of it being this kind of.
Kid friendly, non-aggressive, him hockey team.
And uh, they really changed.
I think they kind of shed that perception a bit,
(09:58):
um, once they, uh, won the Stanley Cup in 2007.
And, you know, there was also too, there was a, um, uh, like a handful of years
they were where they like made it to the Western conference, like championships
and, you know, there were a very notable name in its own right in the NHL.
(10:19):
But, uh, in recent years, you know, they've,
I think it like up until 2018 they were like.
Really, really competitive.
And then they came to us, um, at a really interesting time for them.
They were on the onset of rebranding themselves.
(10:40):
I don't know if you, you follow hockey or, or not, but I didn't actually.
Um, I got just really geeking into it.
So the ducks, they were going through a rebrand
with the logo and they were creating this.
Um, amazing kind of mixed use space around it with
entertainment, restaurants, you know, um, that kind of thing.
(11:01):
And then, um, they were also in a rebuild period, so they have a really young
team that is, you know, they're, they're coaching and, uh, and developing.
They really want to reinvigorate.
Fandom, the fans and get people into the Arena Honda Center.
(11:22):
And it's really challenging when you have a team that's
rebuilding and the players, and that was the challenge.
Um, it was to get these fans excited for all the foundational
things that they're, that they're making, like with the in
game experience, that new complex I was telling you about.
And then the rebrand, which so many fans.
(11:44):
I like completely loved.
They returned back to that like mass duck face, um, versus the web.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's so iconic too, you know?
It also like has the heritage from the movies as well.
Yeah.
It's a, it's a good throwback.
Yeah.
And then, um, I noticed the color, the color selection
for this rebrand was heavy on orange as opposed to the,
(12:07):
the purple and green that maybe we're more familiar with.
Um, so what, what led to that?
Mm-hmm.
Color change, I'm sure that was probably a much more
lengthy discussion than most people would assume.
Fans were very much in love with their purple and teal.
But one of the things that the, the organization really wanted
to lean into is their, uh, loyalty and love for Orange County.
(12:30):
And Orange County is known for the oranges,
like their history is in like orange groves.
So they really leaned into that color and they knew there
was gonna be a lot of kind of pushback from fans, but they
went, they boldly and, you know, with pride went with orange.
It
is definitely a good call.
Um, so, so what has been the response then?
And you, you said you were anticipating
(12:50):
some pushback, but how has it been received?
Oh, well, you know what, um, maybe I can kind of take a step
back about what like Battery was kind of, uh, partner to do here.
So they had these kind of pieces in place, but with the big task of
invigorating, reinvigorating the fans and the players being kind of.
(13:14):
Subject to change all the time.
Like we, we couldn't lean into the players and the team.
So the, the challenge to us was how do we
bring back Pride fandom to our fan base?
And we're like, you know, orange County is.
Where it's at.
(13:34):
Like I'm actually from Orange County.
I grew up there.
I spent some, I spent my weekends in Compton, but lived in Orange County.
And with that, and I know that like the people, the
residents of Orange County, they're such a, such a diverse.
Um, population of people and, but then people from the outside
don't really know that, you know, orange County is often kind of
(13:58):
labeled with, uh, you know, kinda like dated stereotypes of like.
Through the health size of Orange County,
um, Laguna Beach, when that was a thing.
Beautiful beaches, very cush lifestyle, OneNote type of people.
And Orange County is very, very, very different from that.
And we want to lean into that and kind of fight off stereotypes
(14:21):
and bring this kind of more edgy, gritty persona to, to the ducks.
So we had this, uh, platform line called You're Entering Orange Country.
That, that that was our kind of brand platform to kind of set off
bringing back fandom, not just core fans, but people from Orange County
who could relate to this and say, yes, we are, or we are Orange County.
(14:46):
There's a lot of things to be proud of there.
If the first theme is about humanity and
identity, then this next theme is about longevity.
Building something that can actually last, sustainable growth instead of hype.
And to kick us off, we're starting with joy.
Not surprise joy, not forced positivity, joy, but
(15:09):
the kind of joy that transforms a job into a colon.
Here's Dale Dupree.
I noticed, you know, you talk a lot about the, the joy of selling.
It's dude sales is not always joyful.
You know that.
And I, I think it's counter-cultural almost to talk
about it being a joy and something people can love doing.
Because for me, like I know through my career,
(15:30):
it's been like, all right, this is the job.
This is the career I chose.
This is the path I went down.
This is what I'm stuck in.
For me, that's a challenge.
So tell me more about like.
That finding of joy?
Like what, what does that mean within sales to you?
And I mean, you've said a lot of it I think here,
but I'd love you to just to kind of like sum it up.
Yeah.
Life is sales and sales is life is the way that I look at it.
I don't box sales into like some kind of compartment.
(15:53):
I see sales as like a literal motion of life.
Mm-hmm.
That in sales.
Just like in my life, I'm gonna meet strangers and have the opportunity
to be impactful to those people, to give them something, which is
again, going back to the principles of serving leadership, but also
to the principles of just being a good person and living a good life.
(16:15):
So if we, if we really look at like life is, we wake up
in the morning, we do, you know, eight cold plunges and.
You know, 7,000 pushups or whatever y'all do, and
roll a banana on your face, smell that banana water.
And uh, and, and then we, we go to work, right?
We eat lunch, we get outta work, we hang out with
friends, watch severance, like yeah, whatever.
(16:38):
Life is very predictable, ultimately.
Yeah.
It's the same thing over and over again.
And it's very simple things.
And those things do what for us.
They bring us joy.
Mm-hmm.
Except for work.
Right, and, and the way that you described it, I think
it's beautiful because it's, you know, it's like.
Life hasn't been good to me, bro.
When I think of what you just said about sales,
like, but I still find joy in life all the time.
(17:00):
I think that the, the real opportunity is finding the failure.
That's what brings you joy.
I love it when somebody says something like, you know what?
I don't like what you're sending me in the mail.
It's weird.
It.
It happens.
It's rare, but it happens.
I love that.
I love to say to that person, sorry that it came across that way for you.
I'll, I'll cease and desist, hang up on them instead of
(17:21):
trying to like do something crazy with them, and then
immediately I'll do a little research, call the front desk.
Hey, what's Jeff's favorite thing?
Hmm.
And then, and then like a ghost or a fart in the wind, right?
Like I'm in and out and no one even knows I existed.
Mm-hmm.
I'll send him something without my name attached to it, nothing, and just
say, Hey, someone out here wants you to know that you're appreciated.
Because when I hear some people say things like that,
(17:42):
I think, man, they don't get enough joy in their life.
They don't have the things that I have.
They don't have a. Incredible wife.
They don't have two amazing kids that I shouldn't even have.
Bro, I should be dead.
My story is, is that 2014 I should have been gone.
Hmm.
I'm a miracle.
I'm a product of grace.
(18:02):
So when I think of joy, I think, bro, everything in life is joy for me, right?
Again, because of my story, because of the things I've experienced,
because of the fact that I shouldn't be sitting here with you mm-hmm.
Right now, which gives me chills every time when I think about it.
Just how miraculous my existence is, and I totally take advantage of it.
I eat too much.
(18:23):
I play too much.
Right.
But, but I, I love my life.
I love the good, I love the bad.
Mm-hmm.
I love the indifference.
I love the ugly, all of it.
I find joy in it.
Instead of stress and anxiety.
I'm a patient person.
I seek out moments where I, I have to test that and challenge that.
And in sales, I think, like when you make the
(18:43):
commitment to it, what you have to understand is that.
Because it's a part of life.
That's why it's the hardest thing for people to do because me and my preference
is I would prefer that my life look like this, but I am not the driver.
And that's the thing that most people don't understand.
Like I might impact the decisions through my action and my
free will if we even have that in the first place, right?
(19:06):
Sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but sure,
I have to be the one that makes the decisions.
But man, like if I could just like surrender.
And die to myself every day.
Mm-hmm.
My life would be full of joy and those are
the decisions that I made a long time ago.
You know, so a kid is getting outta hand in the, in at the home front,
(19:26):
standing up in his chair, you know, screaming and yelling at his mom like I.
Sure there's, there's an appropriate way to, to reprimand
that child and to help that child learn versus one that's not.
But you can find joy in that moment.
Just like when someone tells you to F off and never email me again.
You can find joy in that moment.
I'm going to literally, I'm gonna write an email, I'm gonna
(19:48):
print it, I'm gonna send in the mail, and with a little
note of that, says, Hey, you said never to email you again.
So I sent this one in the mail and, and literally when I call back
or behind that guy, I like, either they have a restraining order,
you know, like it's over, or they got a really good moment from that.
(20:09):
Even if it wasn't like a chuckle, it was more like impressive.
Mm-hmm.
Or intense, you know, I can't believe this guy actually did this.
Yeah.
Which hopefully just opens people's mind to what joy really is.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I mean, the, the way you're describing it too,
it's not just, um, and I've always thought of joy this way
too, of like, it's, it's not just about having fun, joy.
(20:32):
Joy is really more than just being pleased with something in the moment or.
You know, something that like what a Marie Kondo, like sparks joy in you.
You know, it's not just something that makes you happy.
Joy can be something that you feel even when things are tough.
And having that, that ability to identify that, I think that, I
think that's a great perspective on it because a lot of people,
(20:53):
including myself, you know, you're gonna get down on yourself.
You're gonna get frustrated, oh, I didn't close this, I didn't close that.
Oh, this didn't go my way.
And all of a sudden things start to fall apart.
And it's really easy to, um, get stuck in those moments.
And then just to give up entirely.
Um.
So I think, I think that's a, that's a really
good perspective on it, so that's awesome.
What Dale says there, that really hit me hard this
(21:15):
year because Joy doesn't eliminate the hard parts.
It redeems them, it gives them shape and meaning.
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(22:06):
And if we're talking about giving meaning to a moment, few people
have done that At the scale of Arne DeGeorge, whose work helped shape
the cultural identity of an entire city, let's head to Las Vegas.
I think the.
The really, really fun stuff started when we, when we started
with the positioning of adult freedom and we worked from there
(22:27):
and, and one of the, one of the early campaigns, even before what
happens here, stays here, you know, was all based on freedom.
We had an ad called Freedom from the Man and Freedom from Reality.
And, uh, a few ads like that that.
That were really, really nice pieces and, uh, and we thought we were
gonna go down that direction and then, and then something happened.
I think nine 11 happened or something.
(22:48):
Uh, you know, something else that disrupts you.
And, and we're, we're very much like when, when something like that happens,
you know, we kind of stop everything because we know people don't really wanna.
People don't really wanna, you know, live the advertising world.
They wanna, they want a more comfortable world.
So we, you know, we, we do something different.
And that made us basically kind of take a look at it again.
(23:09):
And then, then we started going down the road
of, uh, of what happens here, stays here.
And, uh, and, and so it, for us.
Was a very, very, was a very good thing because what happens
here, stays here, um, allowed you to do things that no other
tourism campaign had ever done by, by, by a wide margin.
And, um, we can get into that.
(23:33):
It basically allowed you to not show the destination.
You know, it allowed you to use your imagination
as to what your experience was gonna be.
What happens here?
Stacy, we didn't tell you what happens,
right?
Right.
So you could be, what happens to you, could be
anything you can come up with in your, in your head.
And so that was the magic of that campaign in the beginning.
(23:55):
And, and eventually we started to show some of the destination.
And when we did it was great because then we showed it in a way that showed
the, the kind of tricks and games and fun you could have being somebody else.
Or, or doing something couldn't do at home.
And so, so we expanded it down the line and, um, you know, we, we made
it last for a long time by really, really kind of just bringing it along.
(24:19):
Bringing it along.
Bringing it along pretty much as far as we can bring it.
Yeah.
So a place where you can achieve what you want to achieve or do
do that crazy thing you've always wanted to do, which has been
perpetuated by Hollywood and, um, culture just over the years too.
I mean, what happens here stays here is ubiquitous with the city now.
I, that's what I think of when I think of Vegas.
(24:39):
Well, it, it's in, you know, even before we, we kind of took ownership
of it, it was in people's heads as far as traveling went, you know what?
Stay, what happens on the road, stays on the road.
You know, we just knew that it was perfect, that it was a perfect truth for us.
And truth super important in, in advertising because
you gotta get in there and inside people and everything.
And so, so they.
(25:01):
They, you know, they, they bought into that because, 'cause they knew it
anyways and they knew that it, there was no better place than Vegas for that.
So, um, yeah, that's how it really, really took off and it became
part of, of, of what everybody thinks about Vegas and part of the
city and, and part of the culture, which is pretty incredible.
That's one of those stories I will never get tired of hearing a single line.
(25:24):
What happens here stays here reshaped the
way an entire culture thinks about a place.
But not all brand love comes from massive campaigns.
Sometimes it comes from something small,
personal, unexpected, meaningful, like socks.
Really good socks aren't good socks if you're being honest.
Here's Patrick Collins.
One that immediately comes to mind just because I'm in the
(25:46):
middle of it, um, or I'm in the middle of sort of year or two.
An extension is a campaign that we've been working on, a brand
campaign that we've been working on with a brand called Darn Tough.
And they are a sock brand family owned,
based in Vermont and just extremely beloved.
So it was one of those, you know, sometimes we'll get a, we joke
here, like when we win a piece of New Bays, someone's either
(26:10):
friend or parent, I mean hopefully we're all very excited too,
but there's always that like, oh my God, my dad's freaking out.
You're working with like cat footwear or whatever.
It's this one with darn tough.
We had a lot of, a lot of our team parents.
I said Beloved Sock brand, but it's also, you know, they
(26:30):
sell at REI, they sell at a lot of local independent stores.
It's a big like hiking sock brand.
Um, and they're extremely comfortable.
Comfortable.
And they also have a lifetime warranty.
So there's just like all these great things that check a lot of boxes
and a lot of boxes for like parents of adult children and something.
(26:55):
For their first ever brand campaign.
So they've had just like this consistent, you know, they have a
great marketing and brand team, but in terms of working with an
outside agency, they've just had consistent growth over time.
But they, similar to Chaco, we're starting to reach that sort of like,
you know, we can stay on this path and that's great, but we have such
(27:15):
great product, such great, really incredible internal company culture.
Um.
Just so much brand love that we feel like there's audiences
sitting, like whether it's a town over or you know, they're in
Vermont all the way over in California that just would love us,
project our product if we gave them a chance to learn who we're.
And so, you know, from what I've just said, brand
(27:37):
awareness, obviously a big part of that brief.
And we developed a campaign for them that's called Darn It.
So it's, it ran last year.
Um, and
I love the pun.
Um, and is, you know, within their brand name is already.
(28:02):
We, the big sort of unlock there and, and something that I think
is another really important part of my strategic practice is that
like in person immersion or, you know, not can't always be in
person, but in terms of really getting to know the stakeholders,
you know, it's not just about like absorbing old brand books and.
(28:22):
Like the consumer segmentation that a different
agency did and piecing everything together.
That's a big part of it.
But usually like that, we like to say like hidden gems over here, right?
Like we like to find a brand's hidden gem and usually
that's not gonna come reading 500 pages of different decks.
It really requires like those one-on-one meetings, those conversations with.
(28:46):
The employee that's been there for like three
months, and it's like, what drew, what drew you here?
Why, why did you apply for a job at this company?
Um, and so we flew out to Vermont, uh, our
team and spent a couple days with them.
We got to walk around their mill.
They make everything there, it's all, it's all American
made and got to meet the founder, um, and hear about
sort of his vision and how the company organically grew.
(29:09):
And in doing all of that, you know, we knew about the warranty, but
it's something that's just like, it's nice, you know, a warranty at
that point is sort of just like a nice to have and warranties right now.
Within consumer goods are so confusing
because usually they don't mean much, right?
Like there's so much fine print and we, when we were at
their, the mill, we went to their warranty department program.
(29:30):
And it was just incredible.
Like the, we each got to open a, a bag of socks that had been returned to
each of our teammates, and we're sitting and there's like dogs all over.
It's just like the most like picturesque
sort of little place that you'd imagine.
You're like, oh my God, these businesses still exist.
I can't believe that.
And we open them up and in every single one is
like a letter and it's, it's like I bore these.
(29:52):
Through throughout my entire college experience,
and they went with me to three different continents.
And I'm so sad to give them up, but there's a hole
in this one, or it's ripped here, or it burned here.
Um, and I mean, just the most incredible stories of like wearing them, um.
You know, in Afghanistan or like to their wedding and just, just crazy.
(30:17):
So an incredible amount of brand love and they get these
wedding invitations, but within that, they also had in on
the wall in the back some of their favorite letters and.
They had pinned these socks that were like the funniest stories.
So it was like one in particular that was like very disgusting.
But the dog, it was like this, the sock may look
(30:38):
okay, but my dog ate it and then it came out.
The other, and they were like, I don't know if this fits your
warranty guidelines, but I'd love, this is my favorite pair of socks.
And because it's a one sock you have for life,
they're, they're just like, I want the replacement.
I paid for it, you know, I want, I want this sock.
And so we came home.
(30:59):
And in finding and then covering those gems, we're like, okay, so
one thing that's clear, we all felt so inspired being there and the,
and the company culture, which is so important, I think like the
output of a company, you know, the output of a co company culture.
If you could successfully let the world know
that through brand communications, job well done.
And so they had, they checked that box, they checked this like insane rabid
(31:22):
fan base and consumer love and people that like aren't just, you know,
the average return or warranty is like fill out, you know, print out the
return label, send it in, and yet people are, have watercolor paintings.
They've done these socks.
And then lastly, as we sort of looked at like the landscape and the competitive
landscape and the outdoor landscape, we were like, okay, everyone's warranties.
(31:45):
Return policies are crazy.
So much fine print, they're all going away.
And so we sort of like wrapped that up into like,
what's the pointiest campaign we could do there?
And it was darn it because it was, okay, we need to build brand awareness,
so let's get the name in the, in the campaign tagline and platform.
Darn.
We wanna focus on the consumer stories and the
consumer love and make people really feel seen.
(32:07):
So we built it all around these little stories and we've just
filmed three more last week of sort of hyperbolic scenarios where.
Where people are, you know, where their socks are getting destroyed.
But ultimately the most important unlock
was we need to double down on the warranty.
So the whole idea is like, life's tough,
our socks are tougher guaranteed for life.
So it's all pushing.
(32:27):
It's like taking that emotional side of the
strategy and pushing it entirely into like.
Because if you can't go all emotion, you still need to functional.
Like, why should I buy this
product?
I still laugh at how quickly those socks won me over, but Patrick's
bigger point, the emotional truth behind a brand, that's what sticks.
And when you zoom out, authenticity and emotion are inseparable
(32:47):
from culture, which is why this next conversation, which.
Hi Randolph and Katie.
Sue is such a perfect bridge because if you wanna understand modern
brand building, you have to understand niche, community and fandom.
And yes, sometimes that even means listening or watching K-Pop Demon
hunters, as I have at my house probably a thousand billion times.
Which side note is also the top like five songs
(33:10):
in my Apple Music Tops Top music playlist.
And it's not because of me.
Because of my kids.
But regardless, let's just get into the clip before I embarrass myself further.
The biggest trap most founders fall into during these markets
is if they start to see success on one side, they think, oh,
I should go and launch those three other companion products.
It's like, no, just focus on the one thing, get exceptionally good at it.
(33:34):
Have that be your core business until it can fund your next thing.
'cause then you're going into multiples, then you're really
thinking about the value of the company in the long term.
But yeah, I, I. I think this is like, this is like the kingmaker era, right?
If you can carve out like X percentage of any industry in any
company today, you could technically, you could do anything.
(33:54):
You could do anything, right?
I am absolutely obsessed with K-Pop demon hunters.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
And number one, it's incredible.
Like my son can't stop singing the songs.
It is the only thing that plays in the car,
and the thing that's appealing about it is.
Not only is the IP incredibly attractive and appealing to
(34:15):
a multi-generational household, uhhuh, it also has so many
legs for sequels, prequels, product, consumer products.
Um, you're talking about a very rich universe that
has suddenly been created, exploded overnight, global.
He tapped into K-pop, tapped into music, tapped into pop culture,
and has defined this next chapter for a young adult audience.
(34:36):
Think of how many children watch that.
Mm-hmm.
And that has become a core memory.
And for the rest of all of us parents, we will be buying those.
Toys and products.
Right.
So to me, I feel like if you can generate a brand or an ip Yeah.
That has that longstanding effect, that
hits that many notes and that many genres.
(34:56):
I mean, that's incredible, right?
Like if you think about it, think about that pitch.
It's about.
Like demon hunters who are K-pop bands saving the world.
Right.
I
know if I, if Ty and I were to go and pitch that today, we would, we'd be great.
But like, still, still needs to be like that.
Yes.
But the fact that it landed and it worked to me,
(35:17):
I feel like that's what brands are supposed to do.
They're supposed to affect you, not just emotionally.
There's a lasting impact and you vote with it and you pay for it.
Like.
I know I'm gonna buy a lot of that now.
I mean, I already have those songs living in
my head re absolutely rent free right now.
Right?
Absolutely.
So that to me is an incredible universe that just
got created hyper relevant and all of us are in it.
(35:39):
Like that moment I said that, all of us knew exactly what that was.
Uhhuh?
Yeah.
That is a powerful brand in IP
theme number three, building brands in the age of AI and constant change.
The world is changing fast.
New tools, new expectations, new ways of reaching audiences,
(36:01):
but underneath all of it, creativity is still human.
To close out this best of, I wanna share two moments
from Alex Ganji that helped me make sense of the year.
First, how AI fits into the creative process.
And second why the wonder hasn't gone anywhere.
Now here's Alex.
I think you touched on a really great place where ai, um, is, comes in
(36:23):
handy for a lot of the individuals, is it's in the brainstorming process.
It's in that, it's in that part of the storyboarding.
It's in the part of visualizing, it's in the part of.
Uh, thinking about what you wanna create, uh, you can even
just, honestly, just talking to a chat bot sometimes can get
you a lot closer to, uh, and I'm even talking about text.
I'm not even going into visuals can get you closer
(36:44):
to an idea of what you're trying to sound out now.
You know what?
It's right.
I mean, like, there was a, there was a thing
when I was in, I was an English major, right?
And when we were doing writing, a teacher always said to me, you know.
Um, someone can tell you what's wrong, but they can't tell you how to fix it.
And I think AI is the same way.
You know, even if you're working with ai, you know, you can
(37:04):
get to a point where you know, you're like, okay, where?
What is the answer?
The answer is the answer that you come up with.
It's not the answer that AI's gonna come up with.
Once you understand AI is a tool, you can
start to appreciate the imagination it unlocks.
Let's go onto that second
clip.
There was so much fun stuff you could do with
it even two years ago because it was this like.
(37:26):
Uh, it wasn't in this area, which has, it was
creating this content that you have never seen before.
It was weird, but it had a, a wonder to it at the same time.
Do you know what I mean?
It wasn't just always, it wasn't perfect, but it was perfect in its
imperfection because there was some really fun stuff you could do, which.
(37:49):
It's now gone almost, you know, especially if we're just talking about video
generative content, which I think is like one small aspect of ai and honestly
not even the most interesting aspect, you know, it's, that's just like,
oh, we can make stuff for cheaper, we could read and more people can do it.
Okay, cool.
That's what, that's been happening for years and years and years with like.
Film cameras turning to digital cameras, turning to like,
(38:11):
oh, now I can basically shoot a film on my cell phone.
And now, now it's like, oh, now I can just imagine a film
and type it into a thing and it comes out with a film.
You know, it's like, and then cut it together.
And you still need to have some basic skills to do it.
But of course that's just, that's just the direction
that all this, that content has been heading in.
So none of that is, it's, it's intriguing.
I love seeing AI films, um, and I don't love the ones that replace the.
(38:39):
You know.
It's a tool.
It's another tool to create content.
Basically, in my mind, artificial intelligence can really bring a different it.
It can speed up your workflow a lot.
As I think back on these conversations, I keep coming back to the idea of joy.
And I know in the year where the economy feels uncertain, politics feel
(39:00):
exhausting, and every phone notification is just one more thing to worry about.
Joy can sound almost silly, but joy isn't surface level.
Happiness.
Joy is purpose.
Joy is meaning.
Joy is the thing that carries you through the heavy seasons
and reminds you why you're building anything at all.
Every guest you heard today brought that to the table in big ways
(39:23):
and in small ones, creativity, authenticity, community courage.
They all flow from the same well.
So as we wrap up 2025, my hope for you is simple.
Find joy in what you're doing.
Find joy in the people you're doing it with, and find
joy in the stories you're creating along the way.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks for listening and we'll be back soon in the new year.
(39:45):
Thank you for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
Don't forget to like, follow and subscribe on your player of choice.
You can also keep up with a podcast on our website at We built this brand.com.
If you like this episode, please give the podcast a five star review and make
sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.
(40:23):
Like looking back over it all, it's just, it's crazy
to me how much we've done, how many people we've seen.
Like I'm just so grateful for just the opportunity to be here
and to be doing this on these cameras and everything, man.
Like it's, it's humbling.
Pun intended.
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.