October 11, 2023 • 25 mins
Have you ever wondered why fights and arguments often precede the most momentous events in our lives? Remember the time when we recently flew to Colorado for a Focus On The Family staff marriage retreat? The anticipation was high, and so were our anxieties. For us, it was an eye-opener to understand that almost all conflicts have their roots in unfulfilled or unvoiced expectations.
This episode aims to shed light on how to foster a resilient marriage. We talk about recognizing the triggers of conflict, acknowledging fear, and making trust-based decisions. We also share invaluable insights into the transformative power of love, drawing wisdom from 1 Corinthians 13. Remember, love is patient, kind, and keeps no score of wrongs. Strategy to avoid potential conflicts during grand moments? Have proactive, honest conversations. And always remember, forgiveness is a gift we can offer even before it's asked for. Join us for this heartfelt conversation, and let's learn to navigate life's big moments with grace, love, and understanding.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danny Ray (00:00):
Well, it's great to be back with you.
We are going to be looking atwhy do couples fight before the
big moments, you mean couples ingeneral.
Right like, not us, we're nottalking from personal experience
here, especially personal thisweek.
Kimberly Thompson (00:20):
Yeah, this is real and might even be really
too raw, but We'll find out.
Danny Ray (00:29):
The reality is is that when we have something big
coming up whether that's awedding, that's something huge,
or maybe it's the first day ofschool or it's a conference
you're going to not that we knowanything about a couple of and
before that maybe it's.
What do you?
Kimberly Thompson (00:49):
first day of school, you said like first day
of a new job or job interview.
Danny Ray (00:57):
That you're excited about.
It could be a date night.
You know like you planned outthis date night.
You're excited about it.
Maybe it's a trip with thefamily, who knows?
Fill in your blank on what thatmight be, but why do couples
fight before in?
Kimberly Thompson (01:13):
who?
I have an answer.
One of the reasons is theelevated expectations.
Right, and I have a theory.
It is not proven or nordisproven yet, but it's that's.
I'm gonna say, 99.9% ofarguments of fights are on met
(01:35):
or uncommunicated expectationsand I think in our case and we
can get into this, this conflictthat we had- I don't know what
you're talking about.
Well, I guess let's let's gothere and set that stage first.
So we were headed out toColorado this last weekend, and
(01:55):
to not only attend, but we wereso honored to get to speak at a
marriage.
Danny Ray (02:02):
A show first for all a focus on the family's staff,
yeah, less the entire marriageretreat.
So they Bus everybody over fromthe Broadmoor which, if you've
never stayed at the Broadmoor,oh my goodness, this place is
epic.
Dream come true, yeah.
And so they bust everybody overand you know, so there's, you
(02:23):
know, 150 of the couples arethere, and then the whole focus
on the family staff, so it'sprobably around 700 ish people.
And then the next day we'regoing to speak at the couples
retreat and we we called it thethe Olympics of like couples
event yeah, yeah.
This was going to be our firsttime speaking together at a
(02:46):
couples retreat no pressure.
Kimberly Thompson (02:50):
Yeah, god has a sense of humor, for sure.
We obviously we've been beendoing the podcast for a while
now.
We've written a marriage book,we have certainly attended our
own therapy sessions over theyears to and and feel somewhat
qualified to speak about, aboutmarriage you as a pastor and for
(03:15):
me as a therapist and so we'vebeen excited, we felt God moving
in this direction and we had wehad this on on the book since
last year and then two otherCouples retreats or you know,
opportunities to speak onmarriage.
But both fell through for thisone of those fell through and
(03:38):
those were, in my mind, going tobe practice runs and kind of a
test at okay, danny.
Danny Ray (03:44):
I had a different plan?
Kimberly Thompson (03:45):
yeah for sure .
But, danny, you traveled thecountry speaking and you have
for the last 20 years that's,that is your jam, that's in your
wheelhouse, all of those things.
For the last 20 years I havefought the idea Speaking on
stage and not just thought itbeen terrified of it and just
thought that's, that's not my,my thing you're exact words may
(04:08):
are.
Danny Ray (04:09):
The only way you'll ever get me on stage is with a
paper bag over my head.
Kimberly Thompson (04:13):
I wish you could.
Yeah, I wish I could say I wasjoking with that.
No, that is literally.
That is the only way I thoughtthat you'd get me up there, and
yet God has a way of moving inus and put us up there on stage.
However, leading up to that, wewere excited.
I, admittedly, was terrified atthe same time.
But, for summary, we were superexcited for the trip and we
(04:39):
were prepared.
We were packed, all of thosethings.
We got out the door on timeslash early and, and yet we had
a hold day of traveling, whichis weird because we're only a
couple states over, but you know, southwest likes to take us
further than we need to go andthen come back.
So these two flights where wespent the entire time fighting
(05:07):
right, having this conflict andreally just missing each other
on what was happening in theother person and just, yeah, not
really understanding what wasgoing on.
You want to speak?
Danny Ray (05:20):
to that?
No, yeah, definitely it is.
I think both of us weredefinitely excited about it, but
I think that excitement alsohas like anxiety and stress to
it.
You know it's stressful on myend to never have you on stage
with me in the role of speakingand wanting to help you in every
(05:44):
way I can, but that led to myexpectation of, like I just want
to help.
I think you had said somethingon the plane and for whatever
reason that triggered me and Ijust was.
I was kind of reeling from thatstatement and, like a lot of
our fights, I couldn't tell youwhat that statement is, but I
(06:06):
just remember it was veryfrustrating, like I feel, like
you're, I think I remember thisstatement.
Kimberly Thompson (06:13):
Oh, what's the statement?
Danny Ray (06:14):
I don't know that.
It was a statement.
Kimberly Thompson (06:18):
I really think, as I look at it, if we
were watching our conflict on avideo right now.
Danny Ray (06:25):
I'm sure you have it on video.
No, I do not.
Kimberly Thompson (06:28):
If we were watching it, I think.
My guess but obviously you canspeak to this as well is that I
think there were fears there andI brought up a topic to you
about that.
Nothing to do with speaking.
Danny Ray (06:43):
Right, no, I know it was about something, just a
choice.
Kimberly Thompson (06:46):
I had made one time in my therapy practice
and I think it caught you offguard.
Is that fair?
Danny Ray (06:55):
No, it definitely caught me off guard and felt
like you were hiding somethingfrom me.
Kimberly Thompson (07:01):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (07:01):
It wasn't a conversation that we've talked
about.
We've talked about a lot ofthings in your counseling
session before, but this waswe're not really at liberty to
say what that is.
Kimberly Thompson (07:15):
It's counseling practice, yeah, and
it's not like I divulged actualcontent to you either but these
were more just to be clear, whenI was going through school,
through grad school, and they'reteaching us different practices
, different theories differentways of practicing therapy.
(07:37):
I came to you with a lot of thedifferent ideas just to process
it and go.
Could I see myself doing thisin the therapy room and what's
biblical and what's right andwhat's okay and what's not?
It was more a topic like that,nothing about my clients,
because obviously that's notokay Ethically or morally to
(07:57):
tell you anything that, yeah,any details like that.
Danny Ray (08:01):
No, but it is a conversation we had had when you
were in grad school and you atthat time had made a decision
like, no, that's not somethingthat I would put into practice.
And so you had, and so that wasvery frustrating to me.
Even though it had been yearssince we had talked about it.
(08:21):
I'm like, well, why wouldn'tyou talk to me if you're trying
a new approach or new concept?
So I think in that way it wasjust really defeating for me of
like, oh, I don't get to be apart of the conversation more
like.
You've started this job, you'reunder supervision, you're
(08:44):
talking to your supervisors, butyou're no longer bringing that
to me here we are going to thismarriage conference where we're
supposed to have no secrets.
We're gonna, you know sharethat that was one of the big,
you know things we're going totalk about is you know how do,
how do we be?
Kimberly Thompson (09:00):
the magicians can have secrets, but that's it
.
Marriages don't.
Danny Ray (09:05):
Yeah, yeah and so I felt like here it is we're about
to talk on this very subjectand you're keeping things for me
so I think, I had thisexpectation, like okay, we have
this all dialed in and then cometo find out not that you were
keeping something for meintentionally and.
I know that now, but at thetime it was like well, how would
(09:27):
you not know to bring that tome and so but that for me.
Just began a spiral and yeah andit was very frustrating and
hard to hear you and hard tounderstand your point of view.
And so did we handle this right?
(09:47):
No, did we eventually get thereand handle it well.
Yes, yes, but I wish I couldsay oh, all the things we're
teaching you we handle rightevery single time but we don't
we don't, and this is these arethings that, if we could go back
, I wish we would have done itin this way.
(10:09):
So the first thing is activelistening.
It is essential when your, yourspouse or your significant
other is speaking to you, thatyou, you hold their heart in
your hands.
You, you hold their, you'recaring for them in such a way
you're not trying to hurt themor defend yourself or talk about
(10:34):
your cause, but try to reallyunderstand their point of view
and listen to what they'rereally saying, not just the
words, but the heart and theintent behind it.
Kimberly Thompson (10:46):
Yeah, I want to give actual credit on on the,
that visual of holding eachother's heart.
We actually heard thatreiterated at the conference and
that was Christy and Josh yeah,straub, with famous at home and
yeah, they, they do amazingministry as well and they I that
(11:08):
.
That really helped me.
It was after the fact for ourfight, but this visual of
holding your heart and and goingokay.
So if I had been able to seethis as more of a heart issue
and a hurt, that you were inpain and and I could see that to
some extent during our fight,but I still felt like I had to
(11:33):
keep defending and saying, okay,but this is what this is why I
didn't bring this to you.
It didn't.
You know, I wasn't hiding it.
It just didn't occur to me thatyou'd want to know something
that I had decided was was okayor not, okay in in the therapy
room for me as a therapist andyeah, so that hope that active
(11:57):
listening is crucial.
If you're listening to respond,you're doing it wrong.
Danny Ray (12:04):
Right, we have to listen let me ask when you say
doing it wrong yeah, you know,because that those are big words
there.
So how?
What is a way that you canrespond?
Because obviously you have tobe able to listen, but there's
also a time to respond.
Kimberly Thompson (12:19):
So yes, we're listening for understanding,
right.
So I, in this case, I think andyou can refute this but I think
I did okay at trying to hearyou and your heart in this and
yet I think you got so triggeredthat it just kept you stuck,
maybe, in this world of hurt andnot being able to, but I I
(12:43):
didn't.
Uh, well, let me think out howto say this.
I, I was trying my best tolisten to what your concerns and
frustration and validate that.
That's really the big part ofthat.
That I could see that you werehurt Doesn't matter, that my
intent had nothing.
You know I had not intended tohurt you at all, but I had to at
(13:08):
least acknowledge I had to hearit and go.
Okay, you think that I to you,it felt like I was keeping a
secret.
Danny Ray (13:17):
And can you talk about?
I'm going to mess this up likemy biscuit got blown, my
limbotic blown into theatmosphere.
Can you talk about what?
You know what I'm talking about?
Kimberly Thompson (13:31):
I do.
I do so our limbic system, yeah, it gets blown.
So I'm doing this motion withmy hand right now that we were
taught by a doctor, apsychologist, at Loma Linda.
And they, you make a fist withyour hand, like closing it over
(13:54):
your thumb, and it basically,you know, kind of one finger at
a time you start lifting andgoing okay, so one finger up,
two, three, four, but when allfour fingers are up you have
blown your top, and so it's asignal you can use for your
partner to to say, like whenthey're talking or maybe they're
(14:17):
getting angry at you, and youcan physically show them with
your fist.
That looks like hand and fist,like you're going to punch them
in the face though, oh yeahdon't, don't, do that, not
towards them, or just keep it,you know, right by your, your
heart or your face, and but, butit's a symbol of hey, I'm
getting really angry and oncewe've got to that point of anger
(14:39):
, we're no longer listeningactively to, to hear to, for
understanding.
We have blown our limbic systemand and, biologically, at that
point you can't.
You need time to cool off.
You cannot keep going, andthat's why it is futile in a
(15:01):
fight where, where couples or itdoesn't matter if it's a, a
boss and an employee, but ifsomebody has blown their top,
their, their limbic system hasjust gone offline, then that's,
that is time for a break,because nobody's going to get
anywhere at that point.
Danny Ray (15:20):
So those, those two things, actively listening, I
did not Taking a break weactually did.
And so the beauty of flights isthey eventually land and you get
off a plane.
And so when we got off theplane, we did take a break, I
did cool down both of us.
I'll say that because it wasn't.
(15:42):
I think you were hurt in thisargument and you were trying to
like figure out like how do weget back on the same page?
And so, as we took some time toto process, we came back to our
core of let's give each othergrace, let's apologize, let's
forgive each other, let'sreconcile, let's move in the
(16:05):
same direction together.
I think of Ephesians 4, 32,where it says be kind and
compassionate to one another andcompassionate to one another,
forgiving each other, just as inChrist.
God forgave you, amen.
I know during our first year ofmarriage, one of our I don't
(16:27):
want to say our first fights,but there there's some fight we
had, and I can remember reallytrying to put this verse into
practice of when I think abouthow Christ forgave us, it's
always before we asked, alwaysbefore we entered into a
relationship with them, beforewe feel sorry, he's already
(16:50):
forgiven.
So it's not like he's waitingfor us to ask for forgiveness
and then he grants he's forgivenus prior.
And I definitely don't want tosay I'm great at this, but I've
actively worked on this foryears.
Kimberly Thompson (17:04):
And there was a yeah, there was a big moment
in that first year of marriagewhere I think it was about but
sorry, my mouth first day withthese new lips.
Danny Ray (17:16):
I like those lips, my lips, oh great.
Kimberly Thompson (17:20):
Now I'm going to sing a Veggie Tale song, my
lips.
So yeah, first year of marriage,and I think it had something to
do with being late if Iremember right, this is 27 years
ago now, but I think I had comehome late.
I think this may have beenpre-cell phones, so I couldn't
call you and I remember walkingin the door ready to say you
(17:40):
know, I'm so sorry and I thinkit would have started a fight
normally.
But you looked at me and yousaid you know what?
I've already forgiven you, it'sokay.
And that was really lifechanging, I think, for both of
us to learn to forgive beforethe person.
(18:03):
Now it doesn't mean I'm sure wetalked through things, but the
idea that I was already forgivenat the beginning of that
conversation was huge.
Danny Ray (18:15):
Yeah, and we can't always do it before, but if we
can and that is how God forgivesus we are in the practice of
following Him and want to learnto forgive the way he's forgiven
us, and so we work on forgivingeach other before, and so we
(18:39):
talked about what was going on.
We talked about how do weresolve this.
At this point, I think we wereable to have a real conversation
with one another.
After we calmed down, yeah,identify what are the things
that triggered us, what's thepain and the hurt, instead of
(18:59):
covering that up with anger.
And for me, I was able toidentify.
I felt like you were keepingthings from me and that
triggered me.
That wasn't based on the truth,but that's what triggered is oh
, now you start a new job, youhave your own career and now
(19:21):
you're not sharing things withme.
And so.
Kimberly Thompson (19:24):
Maybe a piece of that was even feeling left
out of that.
Yeah for sure.
Danny Ray (19:30):
But that's based on fear and we don't want to make
decisions based out of fear.
But we want to build that onwho God is, on who we know each
other to be, and trusting thebest in the other person For
sure, and in that moment I wasseeing you as an enemy and we've
(19:53):
talked about this and notreally like enemy, but you're
like.
Kimberly Thompson (19:58):
But that I had wronged you, I had done
something against you.
You've done this.
Danny Ray (20:02):
I'm going to make it right Instead of like hey,
there's a fear that we couldattack together and this is the
fear of you thinking that we'renot on the same page or that I'm
hiding, and if we would haveattacked, my fears going on we
would have been able to resolvethings a lot quicker and you
would have been able to confirmthat that's not what's going on
(20:26):
and encourage me and all thethings we wish we would have
done and we're hoping to helpsomebody out there who's
listening right now to learn toput these things into practice.
Kimberly Thompson (20:39):
But it's not difficult, or it's not difficult
, it's difficult, it's difficult.
Sorry, so, oh no, and now I'velost my train of thought with
something you had just said withwith it not being difficult
with it being fun.
Here, I'll keep going and yousee, okay, okay, I will think
(21:01):
about it, sorry, no, that's fine, you can go as many times.
Sure, I had the most amazingidea and then I was gone, of
course.
Danny Ray (21:10):
The one of the keys, though, is I was blaming you,
and I think, when we look atlike, what's a healthy way to
resolve and to repair conflictis, we have to avoid that
blaming and shaming.
Putting that on you, yeah,instead of recognizing what's
(21:32):
really going on with me is I'mafraid that I'm no longer
included in that conversation,and so I don't know what.
When we asked you at thebeginning, fill in the blank of
something big that's coming up,but I would encourage you, if
you have something big that'scoming up and you guys are
excited about, maybe a littleanxious about it, or just maybe
(21:56):
it's an unknown, but this is aconversation you could have
before, and I wish we would havehad to say you know what?
we're about to enter into a bigmoment and Satan loves to attack
marriages period.
Kimberly Thompson (22:10):
You know For sure.
Danny Ray (22:13):
And here we have an opportunity to speak into the
life of all of these marriages.
It's a high possibility thatwe're going to get attacked or
attack one another.
So how can we prepare and beready for that?
And I wish that's aconversation that we would have
had.
Kimberly Thompson (22:30):
I agree.
Did you think about what youwere thinking about?
Yes, oh yes, sorry, and it doeshave to do with that.
Just those you know.
So we said at the beginningthat the expectations create
pressure, and what I'm hearingyou say in this is the that
thought that we're supposed tospeak to couples about.
A little part of it was aboutnot keeping secrets.
(22:52):
And there you were on the planefeeling like I had kept
something from you.
Danny Ray (22:57):
Right.
Kimberly Thompson (22:59):
Like I think there's a big tie in there,
right?
Danny Ray (23:01):
I don't think so.
Kimberly Thompson (23:03):
They have nothing to do with each other,
right?
So it was a wow, how.
I'm wondering if at the root ofthis was also a how are we
supposed to go and talk to othercouples if my wife is sitting
here keeping things from me?
What, like how are we supposedto stand up there and say don't
(23:23):
keep secrets?
And there you were feeling likeI was doing that, right?
So, yeah, I think having thattalk at the beginning would have
helped us a lot.
Praying against any attackswould have been very helpful,
for sure.
Danny Ray (23:38):
I wanna leave you with a verse.
Kimberly Thompson (23:41):
You're leaving me with a verse.
No, I'm leaving everybody.
Well, I can't leave you, leaveus all.
Okay, I'll take it.
Danny Ray (23:46):
Everybody with this verse.
It's a verse that's familiar.
Maybe you said this verse orhad this verse spoken over you
at your wedding.
I know.
Anytime I'm officiating awedding, this is a part of it,
but I wanna leave you with this.
It's 1 Corinthians, chapter 13.
Love is patient.
Love is kind.
It does not envy, it does notboast, it is not proud, it does
(24:12):
not dishonor others, it is notself-seeking, it is not easily
angered.
It keeps no record of wrongs.
Thank you, you don't have anywrongs.
Love does not delight in evil,but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, alwaystrusts, always hopes, always
(24:36):
perseveres.
May we learn to love anotherlike that.
That's the type of love thatwill transform your marriage
Really.
It comes back to the mantra ofwe do whatever it takes to
create a great marriage, andthat type of love will create a
great marriage.
This is Danny Ray and KimberlyWith.
Kimberly Thompson (24:57):
We do whatever it takes.
Well, it's great to be back with you.
We are going to be looking atwhy do couples fight before the
big moments, you mean couples ingeneral.
Right like, not us, we're nottalking from personal experience
here, especially personal thisweek.
Kimberly Thompson (00:20):
Yeah, this is real and might even be really
too raw, but We'll find out.
Danny Ray (00:29):
The reality is is that when we have something big
coming up whether that's awedding, that's something huge,
or maybe it's the first day ofschool or it's a conference
you're going to not that we knowanything about a couple of and
before that maybe it's.
What do you?
Kimberly Thompson (00:49):
first day of school, you said like first day
of a new job or job interview.
Danny Ray (00:57):
That you're excited about.
It could be a date night.
You know like you planned outthis date night.
You're excited about it.
Maybe it's a trip with thefamily, who knows?
Fill in your blank on what thatmight be, but why do couples
fight before in?
Kimberly Thompson (01:13):
who?
I have an answer.
One of the reasons is theelevated expectations.
Right, and I have a theory.
It is not proven or nordisproven yet, but it's that's.
I'm gonna say, 99.9% ofarguments of fights are on met
(01:35):
or uncommunicated expectationsand I think in our case and we
can get into this, this conflictthat we had- I don't know what
you're talking about.
Well, I guess let's let's gothere and set that stage first.
So we were headed out toColorado this last weekend, and
(01:55):
to not only attend, but we wereso honored to get to speak at a
marriage.
Danny Ray (02:02):
A show first for all a focus on the family's staff,
yeah, less the entire marriageretreat.
So they Bus everybody over fromthe Broadmoor which, if you've
never stayed at the Broadmoor,oh my goodness, this place is
epic.
Dream come true, yeah.
And so they bust everybody overand you know, so there's, you
(02:23):
know, 150 of the couples arethere, and then the whole focus
on the family staff, so it'sprobably around 700 ish people.
And then the next day we'regoing to speak at the couples
retreat and we we called it thethe Olympics of like couples
event yeah, yeah.
This was going to be our firsttime speaking together at a
(02:46):
couples retreat no pressure.
Kimberly Thompson (02:50):
Yeah, god has a sense of humor, for sure.
We obviously we've been beendoing the podcast for a while
now.
We've written a marriage book,we have certainly attended our
own therapy sessions over theyears to and and feel somewhat
qualified to speak about, aboutmarriage you as a pastor and for
(03:15):
me as a therapist and so we'vebeen excited, we felt God moving
in this direction and we had wehad this on on the book since
last year and then two otherCouples retreats or you know,
opportunities to speak onmarriage.
But both fell through for thisone of those fell through and
(03:38):
those were, in my mind, going tobe practice runs and kind of a
test at okay, danny.
Danny Ray (03:44):
I had a different plan?
Kimberly Thompson (03:45):
yeah for sure .
But, danny, you traveled thecountry speaking and you have
for the last 20 years that's,that is your jam, that's in your
wheelhouse, all of those things.
For the last 20 years I havefought the idea Speaking on
stage and not just thought itbeen terrified of it and just
thought that's, that's not my,my thing you're exact words may
(04:08):
are.
Danny Ray (04:09):
The only way you'll ever get me on stage is with a
paper bag over my head.
Kimberly Thompson (04:13):
I wish you could.
Yeah, I wish I could say I wasjoking with that.
No, that is literally.
That is the only way I thoughtthat you'd get me up there, and
yet God has a way of moving inus and put us up there on stage.
However, leading up to that, wewere excited.
I, admittedly, was terrified atthe same time.
But, for summary, we were superexcited for the trip and we
(04:39):
were prepared.
We were packed, all of thosethings.
We got out the door on timeslash early and, and yet we had
a hold day of traveling, whichis weird because we're only a
couple states over, but you know, southwest likes to take us
further than we need to go andthen come back.
So these two flights where wespent the entire time fighting
(05:07):
right, having this conflict andreally just missing each other
on what was happening in theother person and just, yeah, not
really understanding what wasgoing on.
You want to speak?
Danny Ray (05:20):
to that?
No, yeah, definitely it is.
I think both of us weredefinitely excited about it, but
I think that excitement alsohas like anxiety and stress to
it.
You know it's stressful on myend to never have you on stage
with me in the role of speakingand wanting to help you in every
(05:44):
way I can, but that led to myexpectation of, like I just want
to help.
I think you had said somethingon the plane and for whatever
reason that triggered me and Ijust was.
I was kind of reeling from thatstatement and, like a lot of
our fights, I couldn't tell youwhat that statement is, but I
(06:06):
just remember it was veryfrustrating, like I feel, like
you're, I think I remember thisstatement.
Kimberly Thompson (06:13):
Oh, what's the statement?
Danny Ray (06:14):
I don't know that.
It was a statement.
Kimberly Thompson (06:18):
I really think, as I look at it, if we
were watching our conflict on avideo right now.
Danny Ray (06:25):
I'm sure you have it on video.
No, I do not.
Kimberly Thompson (06:28):
If we were watching it, I think.
My guess but obviously you canspeak to this as well is that I
think there were fears there andI brought up a topic to you
about that.
Nothing to do with speaking.
Danny Ray (06:43):
Right, no, I know it was about something, just a
choice.
Kimberly Thompson (06:46):
I had made one time in my therapy practice
and I think it caught you offguard.
Is that fair?
Danny Ray (06:55):
No, it definitely caught me off guard and felt
like you were hiding somethingfrom me.
Kimberly Thompson (07:01):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (07:01):
It wasn't a conversation that we've talked
about.
We've talked about a lot ofthings in your counseling
session before, but this waswe're not really at liberty to
say what that is.
Kimberly Thompson (07:15):
It's counseling practice, yeah, and
it's not like I divulged actualcontent to you either but these
were more just to be clear, whenI was going through school,
through grad school, and they'reteaching us different practices
, different theories differentways of practicing therapy.
(07:37):
I came to you with a lot of thedifferent ideas just to process
it and go.
Could I see myself doing thisin the therapy room and what's
biblical and what's right andwhat's okay and what's not?
It was more a topic like that,nothing about my clients,
because obviously that's notokay Ethically or morally to
(07:57):
tell you anything that, yeah,any details like that.
Danny Ray (08:01):
No, but it is a conversation we had had when you
were in grad school and you atthat time had made a decision
like, no, that's not somethingthat I would put into practice.
And so you had, and so that wasvery frustrating to me.
Even though it had been yearssince we had talked about it.
(08:21):
I'm like, well, why wouldn'tyou talk to me if you're trying
a new approach or new concept?
So I think in that way it wasjust really defeating for me of
like, oh, I don't get to be apart of the conversation more
like.
You've started this job, you'reunder supervision, you're
(08:44):
talking to your supervisors, butyou're no longer bringing that
to me here we are going to thismarriage conference where we're
supposed to have no secrets.
We're gonna, you know sharethat that was one of the big,
you know things we're going totalk about is you know how do,
how do we be?
Kimberly Thompson (09:00):
the magicians can have secrets, but that's it
.
Marriages don't.
Danny Ray (09:05):
Yeah, yeah and so I felt like here it is we're about
to talk on this very subjectand you're keeping things for me
so I think, I had thisexpectation, like okay, we have
this all dialed in and then cometo find out not that you were
keeping something for meintentionally and.
I know that now, but at thetime it was like well, how would
(09:27):
you not know to bring that tome and so but that for me.
Just began a spiral and yeah andit was very frustrating and
hard to hear you and hard tounderstand your point of view.
And so did we handle this right?
(09:47):
No, did we eventually get thereand handle it well.
Yes, yes, but I wish I couldsay oh, all the things we're
teaching you we handle rightevery single time but we don't
we don't, and this is these arethings that, if we could go back
, I wish we would have done itin this way.
(10:09):
So the first thing is activelistening.
It is essential when your, yourspouse or your significant
other is speaking to you, thatyou, you hold their heart in
your hands.
You, you hold their, you'recaring for them in such a way
you're not trying to hurt themor defend yourself or talk about
(10:34):
your cause, but try to reallyunderstand their point of view
and listen to what they'rereally saying, not just the
words, but the heart and theintent behind it.
Kimberly Thompson (10:46):
Yeah, I want to give actual credit on on the,
that visual of holding eachother's heart.
We actually heard thatreiterated at the conference and
that was Christy and Josh yeah,straub, with famous at home and
yeah, they, they do amazingministry as well and they I that
(11:08):
.
That really helped me.
It was after the fact for ourfight, but this visual of
holding your heart and and goingokay.
So if I had been able to seethis as more of a heart issue
and a hurt, that you were inpain and and I could see that to
some extent during our fight,but I still felt like I had to
(11:33):
keep defending and saying, okay,but this is what this is why I
didn't bring this to you.
It didn't.
You know, I wasn't hiding it.
It just didn't occur to me thatyou'd want to know something
that I had decided was was okayor not, okay in in the therapy
room for me as a therapist andyeah, so that hope that active
(11:57):
listening is crucial.
If you're listening to respond,you're doing it wrong.
Danny Ray (12:04):
Right, we have to listen let me ask when you say
doing it wrong yeah, you know,because that those are big words
there.
So how?
What is a way that you canrespond?
Because obviously you have tobe able to listen, but there's
also a time to respond.
Kimberly Thompson (12:19):
So yes, we're listening for understanding,
right.
So I, in this case, I think andyou can refute this but I think
I did okay at trying to hearyou and your heart in this and
yet I think you got so triggeredthat it just kept you stuck,
maybe, in this world of hurt andnot being able to, but I I
(12:43):
didn't.
Uh, well, let me think out howto say this.
I, I was trying my best tolisten to what your concerns and
frustration and validate that.
That's really the big part ofthat.
That I could see that you werehurt Doesn't matter, that my
intent had nothing.
You know I had not intended tohurt you at all, but I had to at
(13:08):
least acknowledge I had to hearit and go.
Okay, you think that I to you,it felt like I was keeping a
secret.
Danny Ray (13:17):
And can you talk about?
I'm going to mess this up likemy biscuit got blown, my
limbotic blown into theatmosphere.
Can you talk about what?
You know what I'm talking about?
Kimberly Thompson (13:31):
I do.
I do so our limbic system, yeah, it gets blown.
So I'm doing this motion withmy hand right now that we were
taught by a doctor, apsychologist, at Loma Linda.
And they, you make a fist withyour hand, like closing it over
(13:54):
your thumb, and it basically,you know, kind of one finger at
a time you start lifting andgoing okay, so one finger up,
two, three, four, but when allfour fingers are up you have
blown your top, and so it's asignal you can use for your
partner to to say, like whenthey're talking or maybe they're
(14:17):
getting angry at you, and youcan physically show them with
your fist.
That looks like hand and fist,like you're going to punch them
in the face though, oh yeahdon't, don't, do that, not
towards them, or just keep it,you know, right by your, your
heart or your face, and but, butit's a symbol of hey, I'm
getting really angry and oncewe've got to that point of anger
(14:39):
, we're no longer listeningactively to, to hear to, for
understanding.
We have blown our limbic systemand and, biologically, at that
point you can't.
You need time to cool off.
You cannot keep going, andthat's why it is futile in a
(15:01):
fight where, where couples or itdoesn't matter if it's a, a
boss and an employee, but ifsomebody has blown their top,
their, their limbic system hasjust gone offline, then that's,
that is time for a break,because nobody's going to get
anywhere at that point.
Danny Ray (15:20):
So those, those two things, actively listening, I
did not Taking a break weactually did.
And so the beauty of flights isthey eventually land and you get
off a plane.
And so when we got off theplane, we did take a break, I
did cool down both of us.
I'll say that because it wasn't.
(15:42):
I think you were hurt in thisargument and you were trying to
like figure out like how do weget back on the same page?
And so, as we took some time toto process, we came back to our
core of let's give each othergrace, let's apologize, let's
forgive each other, let'sreconcile, let's move in the
(16:05):
same direction together.
I think of Ephesians 4, 32,where it says be kind and
compassionate to one another andcompassionate to one another,
forgiving each other, just as inChrist.
God forgave you, amen.
I know during our first year ofmarriage, one of our I don't
(16:27):
want to say our first fights,but there there's some fight we
had, and I can remember reallytrying to put this verse into
practice of when I think abouthow Christ forgave us, it's
always before we asked, alwaysbefore we entered into a
relationship with them, beforewe feel sorry, he's already
(16:50):
forgiven.
So it's not like he's waitingfor us to ask for forgiveness
and then he grants he's forgivenus prior.
And I definitely don't want tosay I'm great at this, but I've
actively worked on this foryears.
Kimberly Thompson (17:04):
And there was a yeah, there was a big moment
in that first year of marriagewhere I think it was about but
sorry, my mouth first day withthese new lips.
Danny Ray (17:16):
I like those lips, my lips, oh great.
Kimberly Thompson (17:20):
Now I'm going to sing a Veggie Tale song, my
lips.
So yeah, first year of marriage,and I think it had something to
do with being late if Iremember right, this is 27 years
ago now, but I think I had comehome late.
I think this may have beenpre-cell phones, so I couldn't
call you and I remember walkingin the door ready to say you
(17:40):
know, I'm so sorry and I thinkit would have started a fight
normally.
But you looked at me and yousaid you know what?
I've already forgiven you, it'sokay.
And that was really lifechanging, I think, for both of
us to learn to forgive beforethe person.
(18:03):
Now it doesn't mean I'm sure wetalked through things, but the
idea that I was already forgivenat the beginning of that
conversation was huge.
Danny Ray (18:15):
Yeah, and we can't always do it before, but if we
can and that is how God forgivesus we are in the practice of
following Him and want to learnto forgive the way he's forgiven
us, and so we work on forgivingeach other before, and so we
(18:39):
talked about what was going on.
We talked about how do weresolve this.
At this point, I think we wereable to have a real conversation
with one another.
After we calmed down, yeah,identify what are the things
that triggered us, what's thepain and the hurt, instead of
(18:59):
covering that up with anger.
And for me, I was able toidentify.
I felt like you were keepingthings from me and that
triggered me.
That wasn't based on the truth,but that's what triggered is oh
, now you start a new job, youhave your own career and now
(19:21):
you're not sharing things withme.
And so.
Kimberly Thompson (19:24):
Maybe a piece of that was even feeling left
out of that.
Yeah for sure.
Danny Ray (19:30):
But that's based on fear and we don't want to make
decisions based out of fear.
But we want to build that onwho God is, on who we know each
other to be, and trusting thebest in the other person For
sure, and in that moment I wasseeing you as an enemy and we've
(19:53):
talked about this and notreally like enemy, but you're
like.
Kimberly Thompson (19:58):
But that I had wronged you, I had done
something against you.
You've done this.
Danny Ray (20:02):
I'm going to make it right Instead of like hey,
there's a fear that we couldattack together and this is the
fear of you thinking that we'renot on the same page or that I'm
hiding, and if we would haveattacked, my fears going on we
would have been able to resolvethings a lot quicker and you
would have been able to confirmthat that's not what's going on
(20:26):
and encourage me and all thethings we wish we would have
done and we're hoping to helpsomebody out there who's
listening right now to learn toput these things into practice.
Kimberly Thompson (20:39):
But it's not difficult, or it's not difficult
, it's difficult, it's difficult.
Sorry, so, oh no, and now I'velost my train of thought with
something you had just said withwith it not being difficult
with it being fun.
Here, I'll keep going and yousee, okay, okay, I will think
(21:01):
about it, sorry, no, that's fine, you can go as many times.
Sure, I had the most amazingidea and then I was gone, of
course.
Danny Ray (21:10):
The one of the keys, though, is I was blaming you,
and I think, when we look atlike, what's a healthy way to
resolve and to repair conflictis, we have to avoid that
blaming and shaming.
Putting that on you, yeah,instead of recognizing what's
(21:32):
really going on with me is I'mafraid that I'm no longer
included in that conversation,and so I don't know what.
When we asked you at thebeginning, fill in the blank of
something big that's coming up,but I would encourage you, if
you have something big that'scoming up and you guys are
excited about, maybe a littleanxious about it, or just maybe
(21:56):
it's an unknown, but this is aconversation you could have
before, and I wish we would havehad to say you know what?
we're about to enter into a bigmoment and Satan loves to attack
marriages period.
Kimberly Thompson (22:10):
You know For sure.
Danny Ray (22:13):
And here we have an opportunity to speak into the
life of all of these marriages.
It's a high possibility thatwe're going to get attacked or
attack one another.
So how can we prepare and beready for that?
And I wish that's aconversation that we would have
had.
Kimberly Thompson (22:30):
I agree.
Did you think about what youwere thinking about?
Yes, oh yes, sorry, and it doeshave to do with that.
Just those you know.
So we said at the beginningthat the expectations create
pressure, and what I'm hearingyou say in this is the that
thought that we're supposed tospeak to couples about.
A little part of it was aboutnot keeping secrets.
(22:52):
And there you were on the planefeeling like I had kept
something from you.
Danny Ray (22:57):
Right.
Kimberly Thompson (22:59):
Like I think there's a big tie in there,
right?
Danny Ray (23:01):
I don't think so.
Kimberly Thompson (23:03):
They have nothing to do with each other,
right?
So it was a wow, how.
I'm wondering if at the root ofthis was also a how are we
supposed to go and talk to othercouples if my wife is sitting
here keeping things from me?
What, like how are we supposedto stand up there and say don't
(23:23):
keep secrets?
And there you were feeling likeI was doing that, right?
So, yeah, I think having thattalk at the beginning would have
helped us a lot.
Praying against any attackswould have been very helpful,
for sure.
Danny Ray (23:38):
I wanna leave you with a verse.
Kimberly Thompson (23:41):
You're leaving me with a verse.
No, I'm leaving everybody.
Well, I can't leave you, leaveus all.
Okay, I'll take it.
Danny Ray (23:46):
Everybody with this verse.
It's a verse that's familiar.
Maybe you said this verse orhad this verse spoken over you
at your wedding.
I know.
Anytime I'm officiating awedding, this is a part of it,
but I wanna leave you with this.
It's 1 Corinthians, chapter 13.
Love is patient.
Love is kind.
It does not envy, it does notboast, it is not proud, it does
(24:12):
not dishonor others, it is notself-seeking, it is not easily
angered.
It keeps no record of wrongs.
Thank you, you don't have anywrongs.
Love does not delight in evil,but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, alwaystrusts, always hopes, always
(24:36):
perseveres.
May we learn to love anotherlike that.
That's the type of love thatwill transform your marriage
Really.
It comes back to the mantra ofwe do whatever it takes to
create a great marriage, andthat type of love will create a
great marriage.
This is Danny Ray and KimberlyWith.
Kimberly Thompson (24:57):
We do whatever it takes.
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