October 2, 2025 • 26 mins
Grace isn’t a one-time drop—it’s a daily reload. In this lively, practical, and hope-filled conversation, Danny (magician and pastor) and Kimberly (associate marriage & family therapist) explore how to give and receive fresh grace every day. They unpack why forgiveness is both a process and a choice, bust the “forgive and forget” myth, and share real-life marriage examples—complete with laughter, honesty, and a few “hypothetical” Amazon jokes.
Listeners will learn:
- How to start each morning by receiving God’s new mercies (Lamentations 3:22-23)
- Ways to speak daily grace over your spouse with morning check-ins, midday pauses, and evening resets
- Practical steps for working through conflict, communicating needs, and rebuilding trust when walls of resentment form
Whether you’re navigating old wounds or everyday annoyances, this episode offers a grace-filled blueprint for stronger, freer relationships.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
We do whatever it takes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
So today we're going
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
to talk about grace.
Isn't this one time just Dropit, leave it, it's done.
But grace is a daily reload.
And
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
honestly- I love that word, reload.
Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
No, no, I love that you love that word.
But honestly, it's moment bymoment, second by second.
We need to constantly be readyto just drop grace wherever we
go.
Jesus says that he gives usgrace upon grace, upon grace,
upon grace, upon grace, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Because Lord knows we all mess up.
UNKNOWN (01:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
And when we mess up, we need grace.
We need that reloading of gracedaily.
Yeah, let
SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
me give you the verse of the day on that.
Are you
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
good?
Give it
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
to us.
Lamentations 3, verses 22 and 23says, Because of the Lord's
great love, we are not consumed,for His compassions never fail.
They are new every morning.
Great is your faithfulness.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
So God gives us fresh mercy.
Yeah, for sure.
And each morning
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
when you wake up, I'm just learning this too, it's
a really good time to, you know,set up the day, obviously,
ideally spending time with Godand resetting the day that way,
but setting it up for successand going, okay, God, I'm
thankful for these things thatyou've given me today and
(02:46):
today's gonna be great no matterwhat happens because God's there
with me and because his merciesare new today and his grace is
new today and my grace forothers can be new today Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I know one of the things that I think is deceptive
as a performer, I was, in fact,I was doing a show this week.
And just because I've done thisshow, the person I was doing
this with, Zhenya, he wasfilming for me.
He said, Are you going to doanything new?
I said, Not for this show.
Like, I need to do everythingthe best I can.
(03:22):
And it's
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
stuff
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
I've...
Okay.
But each audience is new andthat connection.
I can't just go, well, last timeit worked and it was like the
same place, the same area, thesame, you know.
Different people.
Yeah.
It's not the same people.
It's not the same season.
It's not that.
So every show is different.
(03:48):
And every day as we wake up, youknow, the opportunities are
different to give that grace.
We can't just depend on whathappened yesterday and go, well,
hey, this worked yesterday.
Yeah.
And I know for us, like we'vetalked about that a lot with,
you know, just because somethingworked yesterday.
It's like, hey, I washed thedishes yesterday and you're like
(04:09):
super grateful and like, hey,this is awesome.
I appreciate it.
I do it the next day.
And it's not that you don'tappreciate it, but maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
I know what you're really sayinghere.
You're saying that maybe thedishes led to some physical
intimacy maybe one day, but thenyou try it again the next day
and it does not lead to physicalintimacy.
Yeah, that is not the recipe.
Ah, I see.
(04:59):
And forgiveness doesn't worklike that.
Is that
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
like, I told you I loved you on our wedding day?
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's it.
Like, you should just know,right?
I'll let you know if it changes.
Ah, I have heard that.
Yeah, maybe more story thanactual people saying that.
I hope, anyway.
But forgiveness is a process.
And there are layers of gracethat keep unfolding.
(05:24):
Will you
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
talk to us about that forgiveness is a process?
Because I think that's animportant concept.
I think people think, oh, Ijust, and this isn't a biblical
thing, but people think, oh, youjust forgive and forget.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (05:37):
yeah.
That is not biblical.
That is terrible advice.
Forgetting something whereyou've been physically hurt or
emotionally hurt, anything likethat, forgiveness is not that
easy.
And you certainly are not calledto forget.
Well, the
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
idea of forgetting, why we forget things and why we
remember things, things is areally difficult there's like
that's true all kinds of bookswritten on this I know as a in a
magic show I've I've playedaround with this concept of
having people forget things in ait's impossible like if
(06:16):
especially like if I show themhypothetically a playing card
and say forget this playing carddon't remember you immediately
like lock it into your brainokay okay so I think when we
when we have this misconceptionof we need to forgive and
forget.
So then I'm like, well, youreally, or I'll take you, you
(06:37):
really hurt me.
I need to forget that.
I need to forget that.
I need to forget that.
It becomes impossible becauseyou're thinking about forgetting
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
it.
What you need to forget.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
That's a good point.
That's not the goal to forgiveand forget.
So it is this process.
So talk to us about
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
that.
Yeah, the forgiveness process,it can come up in like it's not
linear.
It's, it comes in waves justlike grief or like lots of
things that we used to thinkwere linear.
Um, it's, it's waves.
So we have to go, okay, I, Lord,I, I asked for your forgiveness
or I've, I, I helped me giveforgiveness to this person and
(07:17):
grace to this person.
Um, help me see them like yousee them.
And then the next like 10minutes later, something can
kind of feel like, Oh, I, youknow that, but I remember that
thing that hurts and, Andsometimes it's because we don't
want to forgive it, right?
Sometimes it serves a purposeand allows us to stay at a
(07:38):
distance from that person.
Yeah, which builds those walls.
Yeah, resentment and all of thatbecause it's too hard to let go
and in a way protects us fromgetting closer or from that
person getting close to us andthen hurting us again.
So forgiveness is a choice andso is grace.
(07:59):
Showing grace,
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
offering grace.
(08:29):
is a is a choice
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
well you holding a grudge against that person or
hate even or you know carryingthat that but if they don't
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
and i'm playing devil's advocate for a second
but if they don't ask for thatforgiveness or yeah they're not
aware of how much they hurt meor i'm not even in relationship
hypothetically with that personanymore
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
sure so forgiveness isn't in that sense isn't for
the other person it's for youright it doesn't mean
forgiveness isn't the same asreconciling with somebody okay
um reconciling would requireforgiveness but forgiveness
doesn't require reconciliationdoes that make sense so if
(09:16):
you're saying you're not even inrelationship with this person
but you have some unforgivenessin your heart that's a weight
that you're carrying around likein a backpack that you're
carrying in this giant rock andit's If you have a bunch of
those, I mean, that's heavy tokeep carrying this unforgiveness
in your- That's a great
SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
image.
Nicely done.
Hey, I actually got one.
A backpack full of rocks.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
That's a really good image of that weight that holds
you back from becoming whoyou're designed to be, which is
free and not being weighed downby all of this unforgiveness
that you carry around.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Absolutely.
And that it affects the lens inwhich you see everything.
Right.
So if we if we have this weightthat we're always carrying,
we're going to feel more weigheddown.
We're going to feel maybe moreanxious or more angry.
And that makes it harder to bein relationship with other
(10:15):
people if we're carrying that.
So it's to our benefit to carry.
to have forgiveness for peoplewho have wronged us.
So
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
let's try to give a real life example in the context
of marriage here for a second.
So let's say you're-
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
Please share all of the things that I've done wrong
to you,
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
please.
I'll give a hypothetical.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Hypothetically, the spending patterns of a certain
person- I'm glad this ishypothetical.
(11:21):
Mm-hmm.
(11:51):
How do we start that?
Because let's say that couple,they built up a wall and there's
more silence and maybe sweepingit under the rug and doing some
functional stuff.
Okay, let's have dinner.
Let's do this.
Let's go to bed.
But not really working throughthe forgiveness
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
of that.
Yeah, which is dangerous,obviously, for the relationship.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, that's a really good one.
The key in that is having carvedout time to specifically address
those issues.
And it becomes active listening,right?
(12:30):
So where I share with you-
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Yeah, let me say something before that, because I
know you would say with thatcarved out time, that's a safe
place and a place that allowsthat time.
Uninterrupted.
Yeah, if kids are coming home atthree and at 2.55, you know,
you're sitting down to talk andthen you don't feel safe to have
this conversation in front ofthe kids and kids are running
wild, you know-
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Yeah.
You'll be distracted.
It's not going to be.
Yes.
Okay.
So carving out a time that, um,you actually have, um, in a safe
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
place to have that conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah.
Good point.
So let's say you've done that.
You're sitting down both of youwith your cup of coffee or tea
or whatever.
And it, I would even saypositioning yourself so you can
see each other's eyes.
It's easier to fight and be madat each other if we're just next
to each other side by side.
Um, But looking into somebody'seyes is softening, softens our
(13:26):
hearts towards each other.
Yeah.
Are you looking in my eyeballsright now?
I'm looking in your eyeballs.
And then it becomes a heartposture of I want to hear what
the other person has to say.
So if it's between the two ofus, I can ask questions.
(13:47):
I can be curious and say, hey, Iknow this is really frustrating
to you.
Tell me more about this wholespending thing that's driving
you crazy I need to understandit better please explain to me
what's going on for you in thissituation stop
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
buying
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
stop this was hypothetical what are you
talking about this is totallyhypothetical
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
tell your boyfriend Amazon to leave us alone to
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
leave us alone but but he likes to come see me and
they all all right we've got offthe rails So back to, we're
having this conversation and- So
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
you're curious, you're asking questions.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Right.
And the other person is activelylistening, not listening to
respond.
It's not waiting and going,okay, stop talking and stop
talking.
Oh, you stopped so I can saysomething now.
And if you're going to saysomething that starts with, but
you do this or you do that- Or
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
you always, you
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
never.
Those are not gonna go well,right?
So those need to be removed.
So give me an
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
example of- of a way to express your feelings um and
at the same time help the otherperson to realize like this is
the goal of what i want out ofthis conversation
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
so in that hypothetical scenario we've got
you're saying i hate it i don'tlike where our spending habits
are at because it's causing alot of stress and anxiety for me
so i'm explaining to you whatthe emotion is, what the
feelings are.
(15:24):
So
SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
I'm able to respond, oh, I didn't know that was
causing you stress and anxiety.
And
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
then you're validating that, right?
Even if you don't feel like thatwould be the same case for you
if the roles were reversed thatdoesn't
SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
matter
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
yeah but that doesn't matter it's not a oh
well if i were in your shoes iwouldn't feel like that
absolutely not that's not gonnago well so it's a it's a
validating of oh he's saying hefeels scared and anxious with
the spending the way it is and iwould say to you i can hear that
(16:03):
and i'm so sorry that I'mcausing that or that I'm part of
that.
And then we can have aconversation about what can we
do?
How can we do this?
What would help to change that?
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Stop buying stuff.
That's what you can do.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Hypothetically.
Hypothetically.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
So we're clear on the solution.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Okay.
In this case, in the scenariothat you gave us, where both
people are feeling hurt andunheard then they need to both
have an opportunity to say okayI can acknowledge that and I can
apologize for my role in thatcan we also have space for me to
share with you what it's like ifI feel like I can't spend any
(16:53):
money on anything anywhereanytime or whatever it is right
if it feels restricting orhowever that feels or reminds me
of my childhood where I neverhad any money and couldn't spend
let me just I want
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
to make sure that we hit this question of
forgiveness, because that's whatI said at the beginning is the
process of forgiving is what, soyou're saying this person is
apologizing, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean the other
person will forgive.
What's that look
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
like to go through that process?
so the forgiveness can startthere but it is a choice back to
that that I have to choose tolet go of this and it doesn't
(17:45):
mean that it's instant thoughright this is not I mean we want
to throw a grace grenade outthere and have grace and forgive
because I've screwed up too soit brings
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
healing and hope and grace back into the relationship
when there
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
is absolutely yeah so that means I start to
forgive.
And it means that maybe we'vekissed and made up or hugged and
made up and we go about our day.
But maybe that thought comesback that he did that thing or I
did that thing.
And so then the forgiveness
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
keeps.
Yeah, you're able to eitherrealize you can, you have the
ability to let that go and youprocess that and go, okay, it
came back up.
It's in my head, but I'm notgoing to hold that against that.
person.
Or I can't let this go and it'sstill bothering me.
Then
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
let's try another conversation about it.
Let's have
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
another conversation.
You just have to be aware ofyour own capacity at that point.
At different points, we havedifferent capacities to forgive.
I think as a whole, when welearn to forgive major things of
others in our lives, we'll havethe ability to forgive smaller
things easier.
(19:01):
But we have to start the processsomewhere of learning to
forgive.
Um, and so if that comes backup, have another conversation
and say, I know we talked aboutthis.
I know we were, we workedthrough this, but I'm still
wrestling and it's stillbothering me.
I just want to let you know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the other person cancome alongside and go, I know,
like, I'm sorry that it hurtsor, um, I understand.
Yeah.
Is there anything I can do?
And maybe there is, maybe thereisn't.
Um, but at least we'recommunicating hey, I'm still
working on this forgiveness forthis one thing over here.
And yeah, but acknowledging itis gonna go a lot further than
(19:45):
just sweeping it under the rugor ignoring it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Yeah, and not buying any more stuff will
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
go a long, long way.
Hypothetically, of course.
Hypothetically,
SPEAKER_01 (19:56):
hypothetically.
All right, I feel like we've gotour stuff out there.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (19:59):
you know, the hypothetical.
Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
But back to...
Because they are somewhatintertwined, the grace and the
forgiveness.
Yes.
Grace doesn't run out.
We do have to reset, right?
And I think that's what goesalong with the forgiveness in
that scenario, that hypotheticalscenario, that we're choosing
(20:23):
forgiveness and we're choosinggrace.
We're choosing to move forwardand not let these things.
In fact, biblically, I mean, Godsays it's to your glory to
overlook So if you can, to evenoverlook it, but if it's still,
like you said, if it's stillwith
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
you to have that conversation.
One fun thing to ask yourspouse, and you could write it
(21:07):
down separately without sayingit out loud, is how much would
you spend without talking to me?
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Yeah, we asked that in a marriage group a long time
ago, and the responses werecrazy different.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Yeah, sometimes it's like...
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Someone's like, I could buy a car and not tell him
or her.
I was like, what?
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
And then all the way down to, I wouldn't spend$10
with that.
And so just the...
It's one of those things wheresometimes you have in your head,
like I would never spend Xamount,$200 without talking to
my spouse, right?
But they might have a vastlydifferent number.
So that's an important questionto ask.
And now, hey, actually, thatwould be really helpful if you
(21:50):
decided to buy a car.
I would like to be involved inthat process.
But that number might be a lotsmaller.
It might be if you decide to buyan Apple Watch, if you decide to
get a new phone, if you decideto, you know, whatever those
things are.
Yeah.
So that you're on the same pagebecause we want to help get you
on the same page so that youcould have a great marriage and
that you can move forward andthat you could have grace.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
And as we kind of wrapped those things up, I want
to give practical daily graceand how to reload that.
And I really like these kind ofthree ideas, a morning check-in
where you can pray or speak oneword of grace over each other.
Give
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
me an example.
I want you to speak grace overme.
I want it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
Give it to me.
I was thinking right away that,I mean, what I did say to you
today was that God's got thisbecause it is a lot going on
today.
It's pretty overwhelming, theamount of stuff that needs to
get done.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Just to give you context, I have a brand new show
coming out called Magic andMayhem with my good friend, John
Michael Hinton.
And that comes out tomorrow.
This episode will be way afterit comes out.
But that's good for us.
We're planning in advance.
But because I have been stressedand overwhelmed with the amount
(23:11):
of stuff that needs to get donetoday, I'm doing this episode.
I'm like, how's it going to getdone?
And for you to just speak graceover me was really beneficial
and just helped me to go, God'sgot this.
And we pray
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
together.
And none of this surprises him.
God's not shocked by the amountof work right now that you have
to do today.
Yeah.
still on the throne and he'sstill in charge and not freaking
out that, Oh no, Danny, I don'tknow how we're going to do all
this today.
Right.
So it's, um, I think that was aform of speaking grace over you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Okay.
So a midday pause is the nextone.
Yep.
So this is where you might textsomething affirming to your
spouse and not that it needs tobe a one-time thing and it
doesn't need to be a text.
It could be a voicemail.
It could be, uh, Yeah, I lovethat.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
And then for an evening reset.
so if anything went sideways
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
nothing ever goes
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
sideways where does it go it goes all around all
cray cray um but naming it andforgiving it before you go to
sleep and it's like rechargingyour battery three times
throughout the day to to be ableto reset and um yeah that last
one's really important to go tobed not angry and work through
(25:01):
things um
SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
it gives you peace in the night, gives you the
ability to wake up refreshedinstead of like, we got to deal
with this.
And if there are things you haveto deal with, that's great.
That's opportunity to growcloser together.
Conflict isn't this negativething.
It's opportunities to haveconnection and to work through
(25:23):
things and to allow those thingsto bring you closer than you've
ever been before.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Amen.
Love that.
So next week, we're talkingabout grace versus What is chaos
and how to bring peace whereresentment and confusion can try
to take over?
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
We can't wait.
And remember to throw some gracegrenades, not grace criticism or
just grenades of attitude orjust throw the grace.
Yeah, throw grace of
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
grace for each other.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
God has grace for us.
Let's have grace for oneanother.
It will change the atmosphere.
of your relationships but fornow we are Kim and Danny with we
do whatever
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
it takes
We do whatever it takes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:30):
So today we're going
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
to talk about grace.
Isn't this one time just Dropit, leave it, it's done.
But grace is a daily reload.
And
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
honestly- I love that word, reload.
Okay, sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
No, no, I love that you love that word.
But honestly, it's moment bymoment, second by second.
We need to constantly be readyto just drop grace wherever we
go.
Jesus says that he gives usgrace upon grace, upon grace,
upon grace, upon grace, right?
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
Because Lord knows we all mess up.
UNKNOWN (01:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
And when we mess up, we need grace.
We need that reloading of gracedaily.
Yeah, let
SPEAKER_00 (01:39):
me give you the verse of the day on that.
Are you
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
good?
Give it
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
to us.
Lamentations 3, verses 22 and 23says, Because of the Lord's
great love, we are not consumed,for His compassions never fail.
They are new every morning.
Great is your faithfulness.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
So God gives us fresh mercy.
Yeah, for sure.
And each morning
SPEAKER_00 (02:24):
when you wake up, I'm just learning this too, it's
a really good time to, you know,set up the day, obviously,
ideally spending time with Godand resetting the day that way,
but setting it up for successand going, okay, God, I'm
thankful for these things thatyou've given me today and
(02:46):
today's gonna be great no matterwhat happens because God's there
with me and because his merciesare new today and his grace is
new today and my grace forothers can be new today Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
I know one of the things that I think is deceptive
as a performer, I was, in fact,I was doing a show this week.
And just because I've done thisshow, the person I was doing
this with, Zhenya, he wasfilming for me.
He said, Are you going to doanything new?
I said, Not for this show.
Like, I need to do everythingthe best I can.
(03:22):
And it's
SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
stuff
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
I've...
Okay.
But each audience is new andthat connection.
I can't just go, well, last timeit worked and it was like the
same place, the same area, thesame, you know.
Different people.
Yeah.
It's not the same people.
It's not the same season.
It's not that.
So every show is different.
(03:48):
And every day as we wake up, youknow, the opportunities are
different to give that grace.
We can't just depend on whathappened yesterday and go, well,
hey, this worked yesterday.
Yeah.
And I know for us, like we'vetalked about that a lot with,
you know, just because somethingworked yesterday.
It's like, hey, I washed thedishes yesterday and you're like
(04:09):
super grateful and like, hey,this is awesome.
I appreciate it.
I do it the next day.
And it's not that you don'tappreciate it, but maybe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
I know what you're really sayinghere.
You're saying that maybe thedishes led to some physical
intimacy maybe one day, but thenyou try it again the next day
and it does not lead to physicalintimacy.
Yeah, that is not the recipe.
Ah, I see.
(04:59):
And forgiveness doesn't worklike that.
Is that
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
like, I told you I loved you on our wedding day?
SPEAKER_00 (05:04):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's it.
Like, you should just know,right?
I'll let you know if it changes.
Ah, I have heard that.
Yeah, maybe more story thanactual people saying that.
I hope, anyway.
But forgiveness is a process.
And there are layers of gracethat keep unfolding.
(05:24):
Will you
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
talk to us about that forgiveness is a process?
Because I think that's animportant concept.
I think people think, oh, Ijust, and this isn't a biblical
thing, but people think, oh, youjust forgive and forget.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (05:37):
yeah.
That is not biblical.
That is terrible advice.
Forgetting something whereyou've been physically hurt or
emotionally hurt, anything likethat, forgiveness is not that
easy.
And you certainly are not calledto forget.
Well, the
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
idea of forgetting, why we forget things and why we
remember things, things is areally difficult there's like
that's true all kinds of bookswritten on this I know as a in a
magic show I've I've playedaround with this concept of
having people forget things in ait's impossible like if
(06:16):
especially like if I show themhypothetically a playing card
and say forget this playing carddon't remember you immediately
like lock it into your brainokay okay so I think when we
when we have this misconceptionof we need to forgive and
forget.
So then I'm like, well, youreally, or I'll take you, you
(06:37):
really hurt me.
I need to forget that.
I need to forget that.
I need to forget that.
It becomes impossible becauseyou're thinking about forgetting
SPEAKER_00 (06:45):
it.
What you need to forget.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
That's a good point.
That's not the goal to forgiveand forget.
So it is this process.
So talk to us about
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
that.
Yeah, the forgiveness process,it can come up in like it's not
linear.
It's, it comes in waves justlike grief or like lots of
things that we used to thinkwere linear.
Um, it's, it's waves.
So we have to go, okay, I, Lord,I, I asked for your forgiveness
or I've, I, I helped me giveforgiveness to this person and
(07:17):
grace to this person.
Um, help me see them like yousee them.
And then the next like 10minutes later, something can
kind of feel like, Oh, I, youknow that, but I remember that
thing that hurts and, Andsometimes it's because we don't
want to forgive it, right?
Sometimes it serves a purposeand allows us to stay at a
(07:38):
distance from that person.
Yeah, which builds those walls.
Yeah, resentment and all of thatbecause it's too hard to let go
and in a way protects us fromgetting closer or from that
person getting close to us andthen hurting us again.
So forgiveness is a choice andso is grace.
(07:59):
Showing grace,
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
offering grace.
(08:29):
is a is a choice
SPEAKER_00 (08:32):
well you holding a grudge against that person or
hate even or you know carryingthat that but if they don't
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
and i'm playing devil's advocate for a second
but if they don't ask for thatforgiveness or yeah they're not
aware of how much they hurt meor i'm not even in relationship
hypothetically with that personanymore
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
sure so forgiveness isn't in that sense isn't for
the other person it's for youright it doesn't mean
forgiveness isn't the same asreconciling with somebody okay
um reconciling would requireforgiveness but forgiveness
doesn't require reconciliationdoes that make sense so if
(09:16):
you're saying you're not even inrelationship with this person
but you have some unforgivenessin your heart that's a weight
that you're carrying around likein a backpack that you're
carrying in this giant rock andit's If you have a bunch of
those, I mean, that's heavy tokeep carrying this unforgiveness
in your- That's a great
SPEAKER_01 (09:36):
image.
Nicely done.
Hey, I actually got one.
A backpack full of rocks.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
That's a really good image of that weight that holds
you back from becoming whoyou're designed to be, which is
free and not being weighed downby all of this unforgiveness
that you carry around.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Absolutely.
And that it affects the lens inwhich you see everything.
Right.
So if we if we have this weightthat we're always carrying,
we're going to feel more weigheddown.
We're going to feel maybe moreanxious or more angry.
And that makes it harder to bein relationship with other
(10:15):
people if we're carrying that.
So it's to our benefit to carry.
to have forgiveness for peoplewho have wronged us.
So
SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
let's try to give a real life example in the context
of marriage here for a second.
So let's say you're-
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
Please share all of the things that I've done wrong
to you,
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
please.
I'll give a hypothetical.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:46):
Hypothetically, the spending patterns of a certain
person- I'm glad this ishypothetical.
(11:21):
Mm-hmm.
(11:51):
How do we start that?
Because let's say that couple,they built up a wall and there's
more silence and maybe sweepingit under the rug and doing some
functional stuff.
Okay, let's have dinner.
Let's do this.
Let's go to bed.
But not really working throughthe forgiveness
SPEAKER_00 (12:09):
of that.
Yeah, which is dangerous,obviously, for the relationship.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, that's a really good one.
The key in that is having carvedout time to specifically address
those issues.
And it becomes active listening,right?
(12:30):
So where I share with you-
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
Yeah, let me say something before that, because I
know you would say with thatcarved out time, that's a safe
place and a place that allowsthat time.
Uninterrupted.
Yeah, if kids are coming home atthree and at 2.55, you know,
you're sitting down to talk andthen you don't feel safe to have
this conversation in front ofthe kids and kids are running
wild, you know-
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
Yeah.
You'll be distracted.
It's not going to be.
Yes.
Okay.
So carving out a time that, um,you actually have, um, in a safe
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
place to have that conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
Yeah.
Good point.
So let's say you've done that.
You're sitting down both of youwith your cup of coffee or tea
or whatever.
And it, I would even saypositioning yourself so you can
see each other's eyes.
It's easier to fight and be madat each other if we're just next
to each other side by side.
Um, But looking into somebody'seyes is softening, softens our
(13:26):
hearts towards each other.
Yeah.
Are you looking in my eyeballsright now?
I'm looking in your eyeballs.
And then it becomes a heartposture of I want to hear what
the other person has to say.
So if it's between the two ofus, I can ask questions.
(13:47):
I can be curious and say, hey, Iknow this is really frustrating
to you.
Tell me more about this wholespending thing that's driving
you crazy I need to understandit better please explain to me
what's going on for you in thissituation stop
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
buying
SPEAKER_00 (14:05):
stop this was hypothetical what are you
talking about this is totallyhypothetical
SPEAKER_01 (14:10):
tell your boyfriend Amazon to leave us alone to
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
leave us alone but but he likes to come see me and
they all all right we've got offthe rails So back to, we're
having this conversation and- So
SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
you're curious, you're asking questions.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Right.
And the other person is activelylistening, not listening to
respond.
It's not waiting and going,okay, stop talking and stop
talking.
Oh, you stopped so I can saysomething now.
And if you're going to saysomething that starts with, but
you do this or you do that- Or
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
you always, you
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
never.
Those are not gonna go well,right?
So those need to be removed.
So give me an
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
example of- of a way to express your feelings um and
at the same time help the otherperson to realize like this is
the goal of what i want out ofthis conversation
SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
so in that hypothetical scenario we've got
you're saying i hate it i don'tlike where our spending habits
are at because it's causing alot of stress and anxiety for me
so i'm explaining to you whatthe emotion is, what the
feelings are.
(15:24):
So
SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
I'm able to respond, oh, I didn't know that was
causing you stress and anxiety.
And
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
then you're validating that, right?
Even if you don't feel like thatwould be the same case for you
if the roles were reversed thatdoesn't
SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
matter
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
yeah but that doesn't matter it's not a oh
well if i were in your shoes iwouldn't feel like that
absolutely not that's not gonnago well so it's a it's a
validating of oh he's saying hefeels scared and anxious with
the spending the way it is and iwould say to you i can hear that
(16:03):
and i'm so sorry that I'mcausing that or that I'm part of
that.
And then we can have aconversation about what can we
do?
How can we do this?
What would help to change that?
SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Stop buying stuff.
That's what you can do.
SPEAKER_00 (16:21):
Hypothetically.
Hypothetically.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
So we're clear on the solution.
SPEAKER_00 (16:28):
Okay.
In this case, in the scenariothat you gave us, where both
people are feeling hurt andunheard then they need to both
have an opportunity to say okayI can acknowledge that and I can
apologize for my role in thatcan we also have space for me to
share with you what it's like ifI feel like I can't spend any
(16:53):
money on anything anywhereanytime or whatever it is right
if it feels restricting orhowever that feels or reminds me
of my childhood where I neverhad any money and couldn't spend
let me just I want
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
to make sure that we hit this question of
forgiveness, because that's whatI said at the beginning is the
process of forgiving is what, soyou're saying this person is
apologizing, but that doesn'tnecessarily mean the other
person will forgive.
What's that look
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
like to go through that process?
so the forgiveness can startthere but it is a choice back to
that that I have to choose tolet go of this and it doesn't
(17:45):
mean that it's instant thoughright this is not I mean we want
to throw a grace grenade outthere and have grace and forgive
because I've screwed up too soit brings
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
healing and hope and grace back into the relationship
when there
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
is absolutely yeah so that means I start to
forgive.
And it means that maybe we'vekissed and made up or hugged and
made up and we go about our day.
But maybe that thought comesback that he did that thing or I
did that thing.
And so then the forgiveness
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
keeps.
Yeah, you're able to eitherrealize you can, you have the
ability to let that go and youprocess that and go, okay, it
came back up.
It's in my head, but I'm notgoing to hold that against that.
person.
Or I can't let this go and it'sstill bothering me.
Then
SPEAKER_00 (18:39):
let's try another conversation about it.
Let's have
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
another conversation.
You just have to be aware ofyour own capacity at that point.
At different points, we havedifferent capacities to forgive.
I think as a whole, when welearn to forgive major things of
others in our lives, we'll havethe ability to forgive smaller
things easier.
(19:01):
But we have to start the processsomewhere of learning to
forgive.
Um, and so if that comes backup, have another conversation
and say, I know we talked aboutthis.
I know we were, we workedthrough this, but I'm still
wrestling and it's stillbothering me.
I just want to let you know.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the other person cancome alongside and go, I know,
like, I'm sorry that it hurtsor, um, I understand.
Yeah.
Is there anything I can do?
And maybe there is, maybe thereisn't.
Um, but at least we'recommunicating hey, I'm still
working on this forgiveness forthis one thing over here.
And yeah, but acknowledging itis gonna go a lot further than
(19:45):
just sweeping it under the rugor ignoring it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Yeah, and not buying any more stuff will
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
go a long, long way.
Hypothetically, of course.
Hypothetically,
SPEAKER_01 (19:56):
hypothetically.
All right, I feel like we've gotour stuff out there.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (19:59):
you know, the hypothetical.
Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
But back to...
Because they are somewhatintertwined, the grace and the
forgiveness.
Yes.
Grace doesn't run out.
We do have to reset, right?
And I think that's what goesalong with the forgiveness in
that scenario, that hypotheticalscenario, that we're choosing
(20:23):
forgiveness and we're choosinggrace.
We're choosing to move forwardand not let these things.
In fact, biblically, I mean, Godsays it's to your glory to
overlook So if you can, to evenoverlook it, but if it's still,
like you said, if it's stillwith
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
you to have that conversation.
One fun thing to ask yourspouse, and you could write it
(21:07):
down separately without sayingit out loud, is how much would
you spend without talking to me?
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Yeah, we asked that in a marriage group a long time
ago, and the responses werecrazy different.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Yeah, sometimes it's like...
SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Someone's like, I could buy a car and not tell him
or her.
I was like, what?
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
And then all the way down to, I wouldn't spend$10
with that.
And so just the...
It's one of those things wheresometimes you have in your head,
like I would never spend Xamount,$200 without talking to
my spouse, right?
But they might have a vastlydifferent number.
So that's an important questionto ask.
And now, hey, actually, thatwould be really helpful if you
(21:50):
decided to buy a car.
I would like to be involved inthat process.
But that number might be a lotsmaller.
It might be if you decide to buyan Apple Watch, if you decide to
get a new phone, if you decideto, you know, whatever those
things are.
Yeah.
So that you're on the same pagebecause we want to help get you
on the same page so that youcould have a great marriage and
that you can move forward andthat you could have grace.
SPEAKER_00 (22:13):
And as we kind of wrapped those things up, I want
to give practical daily graceand how to reload that.
And I really like these kind ofthree ideas, a morning check-in
where you can pray or speak oneword of grace over each other.
Give
SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
me an example.
I want you to speak grace overme.
I want it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:34):
Give it to me.
I was thinking right away that,I mean, what I did say to you
today was that God's got thisbecause it is a lot going on
today.
It's pretty overwhelming, theamount of stuff that needs to
get done.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Just to give you context, I have a brand new show
coming out called Magic andMayhem with my good friend, John
Michael Hinton.
And that comes out tomorrow.
This episode will be way afterit comes out.
But that's good for us.
We're planning in advance.
But because I have been stressedand overwhelmed with the amount
(23:11):
of stuff that needs to get donetoday, I'm doing this episode.
I'm like, how's it going to getdone?
And for you to just speak graceover me was really beneficial
and just helped me to go, God'sgot this.
And we pray
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
together.
And none of this surprises him.
God's not shocked by the amountof work right now that you have
to do today.
Yeah.
still on the throne and he'sstill in charge and not freaking
out that, Oh no, Danny, I don'tknow how we're going to do all
this today.
Right.
So it's, um, I think that was aform of speaking grace over you.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Okay.
So a midday pause is the nextone.
Yep.
So this is where you might textsomething affirming to your
spouse and not that it needs tobe a one-time thing and it
doesn't need to be a text.
It could be a voicemail.
It could be, uh, Yeah, I lovethat.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
And then for an evening reset.
so if anything went sideways
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
nothing ever goes
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
sideways where does it go it goes all around all
cray cray um but naming it andforgiving it before you go to
sleep and it's like rechargingyour battery three times
throughout the day to to be ableto reset and um yeah that last
one's really important to go tobed not angry and work through
(25:01):
things um
SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
it gives you peace in the night, gives you the
ability to wake up refreshedinstead of like, we got to deal
with this.
And if there are things you haveto deal with, that's great.
That's opportunity to growcloser together.
Conflict isn't this negativething.
It's opportunities to haveconnection and to work through
(25:23):
things and to allow those thingsto bring you closer than you've
ever been before.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Amen.
Love that.
So next week, we're talkingabout grace versus What is chaos
and how to bring peace whereresentment and confusion can try
to take over?
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
We can't wait.
And remember to throw some gracegrenades, not grace criticism or
just grenades of attitude orjust throw the grace.
Yeah, throw grace of
SPEAKER_00 (25:57):
grace for each other.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
God has grace for us.
Let's have grace for oneanother.
It will change the atmosphere.
of your relationships but fornow we are Kim and Danny with we
do whatever
SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
it takes
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