September 13, 2023 • 29 mins
How often do we sidestep honesty with little white lies or half-truths? In reality, trust, the backbone of every relationship, rests on the bedrock of honesty, integrity, and effective communication. Join us, Danny Ray and Kimberly, as we embark on an in-depth exploration of the ten principles of trust in relationships. From the simplicity of recording a podcast to the myriad complexities within a marriage, we touch upon how honesty and integrity form the linchpin in cultivating trust. We delve into how our childhood experiences shape our perspectives on truth-telling and how crafting a sanctuary for honesty with our partner, is key to a secure relationship.
Isn't communication the bridge that connects hearts? We navigate this intriguing aspect in our second segment, exploring the role of effective communication in trust-building. Through the labyrinth of creating an ambience conducive for vulnerable discussions to dealing with challenging conversations that involve consequences, we throw light on the art and science of communication. Emphasizing the importance of understanding and empathizing with your partner's feelings, we discuss the need for a middle ground, a common platform where both parties can reach a consensus.
To wrap up this insightful exploration of trust in relationships, we spotlight the vital role of accountability. Imagine having a partner who helps you stay true to your course, aids in rebuilding trust in your relationship, and offers unwavering support during the journey fraught with pitfalls. We bring to the fore the fifth and final principle of trust-building - accountability. Drawing lessons from biblical examples of faith heroes like David and Abraham, we illustrate how even they required accountability in their lives. Remember, a relationship brimming with trust is a reservoir of joy and hope. So, tune into this episode as we share our five principles for building trust in marriage.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Danny Ray (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of we Do
Whatever it Takes.
I'm Danny Ray and I'm Kimberly,and we just want to remind you
of this mantra.
Is we want to be about doingwhatever it takes to create a
great marriage and for us, we'vehad this from the very
beginning is we want to dowhatever it takes every day, if
(00:21):
that means go to counseling, ifthat means read a book, if that
means go to a conference, thatmeans humble ourself, if that
means ask for forgiveness,whatever it means we want to do
that to create a great marriage,and so we're excited that
you're joining in today, andtoday we're going to be looking
at a big one.
Did you want to go ahead andgive a synopsis of where we're
(00:42):
going and what we're going to betalking about?
Kimberly (00:44):
Yeah, we're going to talk about 10 principles of
trust, of building trust, andwe're getting some of our
information today from StephenCovey, David Horsinger and Dr
John Gottman.
Danny Ray (01:00):
And the Bible.
Kimberly (01:01):
And the Bible.
Thank you Good job, and theseare kind of we've taken a
collection of what these guysall say.
Danny Ray (01:11):
Yeah.
What's the common groundbetween these?
Kimberly (01:14):
teachings, yeah, these teachings.
Danny Ray (01:16):
And where do they overlap when?
What do they find essentialabout trust?
Yeah, for sure.
Kimberly (01:24):
So principle number one trust is essential, for sure
.
And actually here's a kind ofeveryday kind of thing that made
me think of trust just now,when we hit record on our
podcast.
There's trust involved now,because one time it didn't
happen right where we were doing.
Danny Ray (01:45):
I'm going to check that as we speak.
Now we're recording.
Kimberly (01:48):
We are recording, OK good, but there was one time
right.
There were lots of times whereit didn't where we were
recording.
We hit record, it recorded, noproblem.
But then one time it happenedwhere we finished the podcast
and we went oh no, it was notrecording at all and that was.
It's a break in trust.
(02:09):
I mean, it's a perfect example.
I think of something.
Danny Ray (02:13):
Did I break the trust ?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, I'm not blaming you.
Kimberly (02:17):
No, I'm just saying for that.
I trusted really the equipment.
To be honest, I thought it wasjust going to be.
Danny Ray (02:24):
Equipment's only as good as my finger hitting record
.
Ok, fair enough.
Kimberly (02:28):
I really wasn't trying to blame you, but it's
something now.
Every time I'm a little gun shy, right.
When we start and we'rerecording the podcast.
Are you sure Are we reallyrecording?
Because now the trust has beenbroken just one time right, and
so it takes a while to buildthat up and it's the same in our
(02:50):
marriages.
Danny Ray (02:51):
Just to understand this.
You're upset with the computer,not with my finger.
Kimberly (02:56):
Yes, yes, I'm totally blaming the technology itself.
Danny Ray (03:00):
Because when you say that, I hear what.
Kimberly (03:02):
I hear Good job, all right.
Danny Ray (03:06):
I'm so disappointed in you I did not say that.
Kimberly (03:09):
That is not what I'm saying, but thank you for
clarifying that that is not whatI'm saying.
Anyway, let's move on before weneed a therapist to intervene
here.
Danny Ray (03:18):
Want to be the first time.
Kimberly (03:20):
Fair enough.
So trust is obviously essential.
Even in something as small asthat, it only takes one time to
break trust, and in ourmarriages same thing.
So it's essential.
Principle number two we have tobe honest and show integrity,
(03:40):
and those are essential tobuilding trust.
Danny Ray (03:44):
And do you have lying lips, babe?
Kimberly (03:46):
Lying lips.
Lying lips in ships Is thatwhat the stuff?
Isn't there some old phraselike that?
Danny Ray (03:53):
But with honesty right, you have to learn to
speak truthfully to your spouse,like I think it's easy, even
with those that are close to us,to just let like if we know our
spouse is going to bedisappointed if we're home late
it's easier to make an excuse oflike oh, my boss asked me to do
something.
Kimberly (04:11):
Oh, there's traffic oh what's that?
Danny Ray (04:14):
That movie with Tim Allen is at the Santa Clause,
where he's, you know there's.
Kimberly (04:19):
Oh yeah, he's honking at the very beginning he's like
oh, I'm so late, there's so muchtraffic.
Danny Ray (04:23):
He's leaving a message on that.
Yeah, there's nobody.
Kimberly (04:25):
Yeah, totally lying.
Yes, got it.
Yeah, lies are an interestingIn the therapy office I do have.
There's a trend I'll put itthat way, of really just going
why.
Why does my spouse tell theselies?
And it's really difficult tounderstand until you go.
(04:48):
Okay.
Well, what was childhood like?
If it was scary to tell thetruth, if there was a big
consequence, or maybe it wasn'teven a big consequence, but to
them it felt big.
It felt really crushing to knowthat they disappointed mom or
dad or grandma or whoever wasraising them.
And that's it starts way backthen.
Danny Ray (05:11):
And yeah, which is true, but in the context of our
marriage for a second because, Iknow you talk about this in
therapy sessions all the time iswhat happens when I tell my
spouse the truth 2.
They land me to that you know.
Do you know?
Kimberly (05:28):
if I don't tell them the truth is that what you mean
is if it no, if you tell themthe truth, okay um, is it safe?
Is that what you're saying?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so itdoes right.
So what, what?
Promises to lie, tell the liebecause, it's just like okay
that it's safer to tell the liethan if I tell the yes yes,
exactly so, if I have to confessto you that I don't know spent
(05:53):
more money than I did, are youactually confess?
Danny Ray (05:56):
no, it's not actual confession, because it sounds
like an actual confession no,not at the moment, but this can
easily happen, right?
Can I see some receipts toverify?
Kimberly (06:07):
no, no, anyway.
Right, so if I spend more thanI was planning on spending and I
should come to you and say, hey, it ended up being a lot more
than I thought, how much?
No, this is hypothetical.
Danny Ray (06:26):
So my friend.
Kimberly (06:28):
I have a friend who did this one.
Yeah, what should she do I?
So, okay, let me talk.
So, if that is easier, to justtell the lie, because I'm afraid
of what's going to happen whenI say it to you if I say, that's
(06:49):
what prompts us to lie, becausethe fear of what's going to
happen if I tell the truth.
Now, the crazy part is,inevitably, if we tell the lie,
we typically get caught.
Okay, there might be some goodliars out there, but it doesn't
make for a great relationship.
Danny Ray (07:06):
I'm a pretty good liar.
Kimberly (07:08):
I'm a magician yeah, okay, that's weird, but you're
the most honest person I know,as far as everywhere else in
your life, so I excuse so youthink?
oh, wow, okay, I think we haveto talk after this episode.
So we have to.
Getting back to what you saidabout being safe, right?
So the other person has to besafe to receive that information
(07:31):
and to.
So if you fly off the handlewhen I do confess something and
say, hey, I spent way more thanI thought I was going to, on the
, on the, on, blah, blah, blah,first of all, you're gonna be
way more upset when you find outdown the road that I lied to
you, because now that's brokenthat trust.
And going back to the safetypart, if you are somewhere where
(07:55):
I can come to you and say ithonestly and say, hey, I'm
embarrassed, I know I wasn'tplanning on spending this much,
but I did and if you receivethat without flying off the
handle and yes, you might bedisappointed or frustrated or
you know all of those things areacceptable if you will
(08:16):
appropriate, but it doesn't,yeah, you know, are you gonna
make it safe for the otherperson to?
Danny Ray (08:23):
bring that true to you.
So can you talk a little bitabout the difference between
like safety and consequences,because I might see like oh, if.
I receive consequences for myactions, then you're not safe.
But that's not necessarily whatyou're saying.
Kimberly (08:37):
That's true, yeah, so that's an interesting thought.
The two are different.
So if I let's stick with thisexample of I bring it to you and
I say, hey, I know we budgetedthis together, but I ended up
spending this, and you, let'ssay, your reaction, I think for
(08:58):
most people would be frustrationand like dang it, we don't have
that.
And your mind goes to what arewe gonna do Now?
I have to go in to solve it,fix it mode, right.
So you're thinking, you'reusually expressing some
frustration in that moment andbut the consequence is wow,
(09:23):
that's more.
How do you think we do theconsequence part?
The consequence is that it'sembarrassing for me to bring it
to you.
Danny Ray (09:32):
Yeah, but the consequence might be like hey we
need to create a better budget.
I need you to stick to this,and that's not.
You know, whatever thatconversation is isn't
necessarily a fun conversationto have but that I don't think
it's.
You know, if somebody'soverspending, you know
(09:53):
continually and you're just like, oh, it doesn't matter, you
know like that affects children.
So it can't just be in terms ofsafety, like you just go over,
look it every time.
Kimberly (10:08):
Yeah, that's what you're saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is there a place to overlook?
Danny Ray (10:12):
and if it's a one-time thing, you know we talk
about that reset button andlike hey, I just want to give
you grace, hey that's not like abig deal out of this.
Kimberly (10:20):
Yeah, if we can overlook an offense, it's to
your glory, right Biblically,yes.
Danny Ray (10:24):
Right, but that's, this is a different.
Kimberly (10:26):
Yeah, continual, If I just keep thinking right, right,
if I just keep thinking, oh, Ican just keep doing it because
he didn't get mad, yeah, that'snot gonna work, that's gonna
break trust for sure.
Principal number three yes,what's principal?
Danny Ray (10:40):
number three.
Kimberly (10:42):
Open and honest communication.
Yeah, do you have?
We have, yeah.
Danny Ray (10:50):
I think with open and honest communications,
communications like the numberone people thing people come to
us with, and definitely you asyou're in counseling on help us
to communicate better, but partof what the real thing is is
it's not that we're notcommunicating, we're not
communicating effectively, andone of the ways to communicate
(11:11):
effectively is to be open aboutwhat's really going on.
So I could say like, for us,right.
One of the struggles we had foryears and it still comes up at
times was the tension of mehaving a stronger sexual drive
(11:31):
and wanting to have sex moreoften and I would do some sort
of bid for your affection orwhatever and you would turn me
down.
It was easier to be upset withyou and not tell you that.
You know, I really did want tohave sex.
I really wanted you, orwhatever that was.
It was easier to get upset andbe frustrated about something
(11:53):
else that you did and not bevulnerable and open to say, hey,
I just really wanted to beintimate with you tonight, right
, and then it took a long timefor you to explain to me that it
felt like rejection and thatyou were hurt by it.
Right, that was much easier orharder to talk about, like the
rejection.
(12:13):
I felt it was easier to likehey, let's create a fight that's
about the car or about the pool, or about you know something
else.
That shifts the pain tosomething else.
So I don't have to bevulnerable.
I don't have to deal with that.
Kimberly (12:31):
But then that kept us in the same cycle of me not
understanding what just happened.
Why were we fighting?
How did we get here?
Just because I said no to youknow, your hand on my knee or
whatever, I don't know yeah.
So, yeah, that's a very goodpoint, in fact, that I'm going
(12:51):
to drop down to principle sixwith that one, because listening
and empathy are crucial to thatpiece, right?
So yeah.
I was able to have much moreempathy for you and
understanding once you were ableto explain hey, I feel rejected
when you do that, yeah thosewords still feel weird coming
out of my mouth.
Danny Ray (13:12):
I use them now because I understand the power
of that communication between usand addressing what's really
going on as a feeling ofrejection and now understanding
you're not rejecting me, but ittook a while to get there and
understand that and have you beempathetic towards me and
(13:35):
understand.
Like, hey, our sex drives aredifferent and how can we meet in
the middle Right, how can?
I meet you, so all those type ofthings.
And I love that you skippeddown to number six, just as a
reminder.
With all of these is there's,they're all connected.
It's not like you could isolateanything in terms of trust and
just go whoa, hey, I've beenopen and honest, but I'm not
(13:59):
consistent, which is number four.
Yes, actually yeah.
Kimberly (14:02):
I'm really glad that you said that.
So, with principle number fourbeing consistent, that goes back
to that example of thetechnology for our podcast broke
my trust and not my finger, notyour finger, no, hitting record
, Hitting record.
No, no, no.
So I'm still going to stick tothat.
So, in breaking the trust justone time really makes us wonder.
(14:27):
As humans we go.
Well, how many other times didthey break my or did they lie to
me?
How many other times did orwhat other things?
If they're lying in this onearea, let's say it's substance
abuse, or substance use thatthat they hide from their spouse
.
And well, if they broke thetrust one time, how do I?
(14:49):
How do I know that they're notdoing it?
And am I the dummy at the endif I'm the one that just kept
trusting and believing?
Danny Ray (14:57):
And enabling really.
Kimberly (14:59):
Yeah, Well, that is the fear, sure that.
I just enabled that and allowedit to happen.
Danny Ray (15:05):
But if we're going to be consistent, so that's the
importance of being consistentwith trust, right, but I think
like, I think of consistency,like like we look at shared
responsibilities in terms of ourhousehold like shores things to
do you know whether it's youknow creating a budget?
(15:28):
Doing the lawn, doing dishes?
Kimberly (15:31):
Well, we do have an amazing neighbor who keeps doing
the lawn right now.
Very thankful for you.
Danny Ray (15:36):
Yes, so that's been a short time, but all the
different responsibilities.
But, like I'll say this, lastweek I missed getting the trash
out, but the consistency foryears and years is I get the
trash out and you do it at times, but it's when we look at
(15:59):
consistency, it's not that younever make a mistake.
Yeah, it's that you have a trackrecord of not.
So if every week you're likeyou didn't get the trash out
again, oh no, I'll do that nextweek.
Then I don't do it again, oh,I'll do that next week.
You know like I come from.
You know a family of alcoholicsand you know when you have day
one of sobriety it's like oh wow, that's amazing.
(16:21):
Let me see what day two lookslike.
Yeah, what week one looks likewhat one month there becomes a
believability, when there'sconsistency instead of hey, I
empty the trash this week, whatmore do you want?
Well, I want it to happen nextweek, yeah, so yeah, if that's
(16:42):
what we agree on and you and I,we talk about this a lot in
terms of our relationship is wedon't pass up like the trash.
If it's overflowing, we don'tgo.
Well, that's the other person'sjob.
Kimberly (16:54):
We just take care of it.
It's the team effort, yeah.
Danny Ray (16:56):
Marriage is a team sport.
We want to make sure that we'rejumping in and if our spouse
hasn't emptied the trash andit's quote their job, it's
seeing the best in them andknowing like, hey, I know they
must be busy.
Kimberly (17:10):
I know they yeah.
Danny Ray (17:11):
There must be a lot going on.
Let me help them out and servethem, as we always want to have
that servant's heart and see thebest in our spouse.
Yeah, I know you do that reallywell for me and in I think it
brings up good conversationabout hey, what's going on?
Talk to me Instead of like thenagging of hey, you didn't do
(17:34):
this.
Kimberly (17:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Danny Ray (17:35):
Is, instead of like, recognizing this is an
opportunity to have a greatconversation with your spouse.
Kimberly (17:42):
Yeah, for sure.
The consistency and trust isreally fascinating to me in that
some people so the taking outthe trash.
I think that's a good example.
Let's say it's some coupleshave okay, so it's his job.
Let's say and If he's hit andmiss with taking out the trash,
(18:07):
doing that that chore weekly,it's difficult to build that
trust and it's really importantthat that trust is built at the
beginning.
Or if you've broken the trust,then that consistency is crucial
to start building that up again.
Because it's interesting howsome people really see that, as
(18:31):
I can't trust you now that youdidn't do what you said you were
going to do, there's acorrelation for some people,
which I don't think happens inour relationship with the trash
example Because you've beenconsistent for so long, it's
easy to overlook the one timethat it doesn't happen.
Right, At least for us, that'snot a huge deal.
(18:53):
I don't feel like, oh my gosh,now I don't know, now I can't
trust him Because theconsistency has been there for
so long and that's one of thethings we've talked about is
just learning to give each othergrace.
It brings so much freedom to therelationship and joy to the
relationship, Because I screw uptoo right.
How can I be pointing thefinger at you and be like, oh,
(19:13):
you missed it this one time.
Well, I miss things too.
Danny Ray (19:16):
And the other thing, like with consistency, there is
a possibility that your spousehas too much on their plate.
Kimberly (19:22):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (19:23):
And go like okay, do we need to shift
responsibilities?
Because if I have time tonotice like oh, she hasn't been
doing the laundry and walkingaround, you know, pointing out
things that you have time to bedoing.
Kimberly (19:36):
Some of the things, ooh, I like that.
Danny Ray (19:39):
So let me say this before we jump into the next one
is in Matthew 537,.
Let's try that again in Matthew537, it says this, and I love
this verse.
It says all you need to say issimply yes or no.
Anything beyond this comes fromthe evil one, and I love the
(20:01):
simplicity of Jesus' teachings.
Kimberly (20:03):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (20:04):
Look, simply let your yes be your yes and your no be
your no.
Period Don't say yes and thendon't do it.
Don't say yes and then figureout like can I do that?
Well, if you say yes, get itdone, if you say no, and both of
those can be noes, protect us.
You know, sometimes we want tosay yes to everything.
(20:26):
But by saying yes to everything,you are saying no to something.
So it's okay to say no.
I don't have the time to dothat right now, you know, could
we talk about another solutionor something along those lines?
Kimberly (20:41):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing with that that I
teach in therapy room is thepower of pausing Right.
And so somebody asks you canyou do this or can you do that?
And pausing and taking time toreally think that through Can I
do that?
Do I want to do that?
Is that a good idea?
(21:03):
If I do that, is that going totake away from something else
I'm supposed to do Right?
So some people have just thisautomatic response of yep, yep,
I'll do that.
Yeah, that sounds great.
They might just be adventurous.
They might be afraid of lettingsomebody down, Whatever their
reason is for saying yesautomatically it gets them into
(21:24):
trouble.
It's not helpful.
It's not letting their yes betheir yes and their no be their
no, because inevitably, if youjust say yes to everything, you
can't, you can't do it all.
So it's okay to pause and thinkabout it and decide wait a
minute, is this a good thing?
Do I need to run it by anybody?
Do I need?
Danny Ray (21:43):
to you know?
Kimberly (21:43):
does it affect anybody else?
Do I have the time, do I havethe finances, whatever?
To do this one thing thatthey're asking, and there are
lots of those that come up allday long, so we just have to.
I lost my train of thought.
That's all right.
I get where you're going withthat, okay, thank you.
Danny Ray (22:03):
Let's wrap it up with principle five.
I know we touched on principlesix, but we'll actually open
with principle six in part twoof this podcast on trust and
building that trust into yourrelationship.
But principle five isaccountability, and I think this
is one in our marriage thatgoes back to that.
Open, honest communication andreally being vulnerable with
(22:25):
those around us is one of thethings like when we've done
marriage classes at our house ordifferent teachings.
That way is one of theassignments, if you will that we
always do is meet with thethree couples that are further
down the road than you and askthem what are they doing?
Kimberly (22:44):
What has helped them.
Danny Ray (22:45):
And so when I look at accountability, is there
anybody in your life that not acounselor, not a pastor, like
friendship wise, or maybeparents or grandparents, or
somebody that you look at theirmarriage and you're like, wow,
they not that any marriage isperfect, but man, they're.
They're a little bit furtherdown the road than we are and
(23:08):
they seem to.
They've had some rough spells,all that, but they seem to
always move through it and havea conversation with them, with
your spouse and just say, hey,this is some of the things we're
struggling with and maybe,being honest, with an area that
you broke trust in your you'relooking at rebuilding that and
(23:29):
that accountability is a hugecomponent, especially when you
look at if there's a habit ofconsistently not telling the
truth, lying.
Even if it's the white lie it'sto protect, it's seen, as you
know, innocent, it's not hurtinganybody.
But if it's come to light andit has hurt your spouse for
(23:52):
whatever reason.
Look at accountability andhaving somebody hey, would you
help me?
You know, it's always at thistime looking for those trigger
points of like when you mightlie is that, you know, when
you're just trying to protectyour spouse, you're like, okay,
I'm just going to tell her orhim, you know this so, and you
(24:14):
don't even have to give the thedetails.
Kimberly (24:16):
Sometimes like I've had accountability with a
girlfriend before where you knowwe just check in with each
other and say, hey, you know,did you remember to pray for
your husband today?
Right?
Danny Ray (24:29):
Things like that.
Kimberly (24:30):
Yes, I'm sure there were times where, yes, I didn't,
yes, I didn't know if youprayed for me today.
Danny Ray (24:35):
All right now.
Kimberly (24:37):
No with you.
Yes, I have not prayed for youtoday.
Thanks for pointing that out, Ihad to be honest, because here
we are.
Wow, I'll work on that, thanks.
Danny Ray (24:47):
No, you're.
Kimberly (24:49):
So, accountability though is, it's actually
interesting, I hear it misusedpretty often because people say,
well, they should beaccountable for their, for their
actions, and yes, butaccountability in our actions
really comes from an externalperson.
(25:10):
So either either you and Iagree hey, can you hold me
accountable in this I'm workingon, I don't know, blah, blah,
blah.
I'm working on something and Isay it's okay.
I mean that, thataccountability.
If I'm asking you and saying,hey, will you keep me
accountable, that means thatevery once in a while, you ask
me hey, how's that going?
What's happening?
(25:30):
You know for you, when, whenyou're trying to do this, is it
hard, is it?
You know?
And having this conversationabout it, it doesn't mean that
you just get to point out hey, Ithought you were working on
this, do it Like, why didn't youdo it?
It's.
It's not a reprimand.
It's somebody coming alongsideyou and and offering hope and
(25:51):
say, oh, it's okay that youdidn't do it.
What are we going to dodifferently?
How can we set you up better?
Danny Ray (25:57):
Yeah, and I've shared probably on here before.
But you know I travel a lot andon the road you know having an
accountability partner but alsohave accountability partners
that aren't on the road with me.
And so when I'm on the road onmy own, I'll reach out to
somebody to say, hey, checkingin the hotel, here's my plan
(26:21):
here's you know, so that I justthink it's one of those things
where it's easy to slip up onthe road.
There's you feel like nobody inthe world knows who you are.
Kimberly (26:31):
I think you can get away with anything.
Danny Ray (26:32):
There's access to every TV channel in the rooms
and the hotels and, yeah, any ofthat stuff there's you know
bars downstairs where you seepeople picking up other people
you know, so there's just waysthat I could easily fall into
traps and having people keep meaccountable of like hey, want to
stay focused, want to stay onthe right side to have that
(26:58):
trust in my marriage.
Kimberly (26:59):
And that's built a ton of trust.
You having that accountabilityhas helped me to trust that and
I don't have to worry about itBecause I know, yeah, you've
been open and honest.
Danny Ray (27:11):
But I don't want to get lazy with that either.
I think accountability is oneof those things.
Oh no, I'm fine.
Kimberly (27:18):
That's when you're not going to be fine, when you
think about like biblicalexamples of, like David Abraham
you look at these.
Danny Ray (27:25):
You know men that are heroes of the faith, but they
still had major areas of failure, and so I don't think anybody's
above accountability, but inour marriage, I think it's one
of those things that will buildtrust between you and your
spouse.
If you're like hey, I'm awarethat this is an issue and I want
(27:49):
to let you know.
Speaking to your spouse, that Ihave these two people keeping
me accountable in this area.
Kimberly (27:56):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (27:56):
And I want to keep you up to date on how I'm doing
it in that area as well.
Yes, and that that is a way ofbuilding communication or
building trust yeah for sure.
So let's wrap it up with thesefive principles that we've given
so far, and we'll give five inthe next one.
But trust is essential honestand principle two honesty and
(28:17):
integrity.
Principle three open and honestcommunication.
Principle four consistency.
And the final one we talkedabout today is accountability.
All of these help build trustin your marriage and when you
have trust in your marriage itjust brings so much joy and hope
and love and to the marriage.
(28:39):
It's foundational and that's whywe brought up these experts
that have all said, these arethe essentials that they've
found have worked in the area ofmarriage, and so we hope that
you're enjoying this podcast.
If you are, please likesubscribe and tell people about
it.
We like to get the word outthere.
(29:00):
We really want to helpmarriages do whatever it takes
to create a great marriage.
So this is Danny Ray andKimberly with.
We do whatever it takes.
Welcome back to another episode of we Do
Whatever it Takes.
I'm Danny Ray and I'm Kimberly,and we just want to remind you
of this mantra.
Is we want to be about doingwhatever it takes to create a
great marriage and for us, we'vehad this from the very
beginning is we want to dowhatever it takes every day, if
(00:21):
that means go to counseling, ifthat means read a book, if that
means go to a conference, thatmeans humble ourself, if that
means ask for forgiveness,whatever it means we want to do
that to create a great marriage,and so we're excited that
you're joining in today, andtoday we're going to be looking
at a big one.
Did you want to go ahead andgive a synopsis of where we're
(00:42):
going and what we're going to betalking about?
Kimberly (00:44):
Yeah, we're going to talk about 10 principles of
trust, of building trust, andwe're getting some of our
information today from StephenCovey, David Horsinger and Dr
John Gottman.
Danny Ray (01:00):
And the Bible.
Kimberly (01:01):
And the Bible.
Thank you Good job, and theseare kind of we've taken a
collection of what these guysall say.
Danny Ray (01:11):
Yeah.
What's the common groundbetween these?
Kimberly (01:14):
teachings, yeah, these teachings.
Danny Ray (01:16):
And where do they overlap when?
What do they find essentialabout trust?
Yeah, for sure.
Kimberly (01:24):
So principle number one trust is essential, for sure
.
And actually here's a kind ofeveryday kind of thing that made
me think of trust just now,when we hit record on our
podcast.
There's trust involved now,because one time it didn't
happen right where we were doing.
Danny Ray (01:45):
I'm going to check that as we speak.
Now we're recording.
Kimberly (01:48):
We are recording, OK good, but there was one time
right.
There were lots of times whereit didn't where we were
recording.
We hit record, it recorded, noproblem.
But then one time it happenedwhere we finished the podcast
and we went oh no, it was notrecording at all and that was.
It's a break in trust.
(02:09):
I mean, it's a perfect example.
I think of something.
Danny Ray (02:13):
Did I break the trust ?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,no, I'm not blaming you.
Kimberly (02:17):
No, I'm just saying for that.
I trusted really the equipment.
To be honest, I thought it wasjust going to be.
Danny Ray (02:24):
Equipment's only as good as my finger hitting record
.
Ok, fair enough.
Kimberly (02:28):
I really wasn't trying to blame you, but it's
something now.
Every time I'm a little gun shy, right.
When we start and we'rerecording the podcast.
Are you sure Are we reallyrecording?
Because now the trust has beenbroken just one time right, and
so it takes a while to buildthat up and it's the same in our
(02:50):
marriages.
Danny Ray (02:51):
Just to understand this.
You're upset with the computer,not with my finger.
Kimberly (02:56):
Yes, yes, I'm totally blaming the technology itself.
Danny Ray (03:00):
Because when you say that, I hear what.
Kimberly (03:02):
I hear Good job, all right.
Danny Ray (03:06):
I'm so disappointed in you I did not say that.
Kimberly (03:09):
That is not what I'm saying, but thank you for
clarifying that that is not whatI'm saying.
Anyway, let's move on before weneed a therapist to intervene
here.
Danny Ray (03:18):
Want to be the first time.
Kimberly (03:20):
Fair enough.
So trust is obviously essential.
Even in something as small asthat, it only takes one time to
break trust, and in ourmarriages same thing.
So it's essential.
Principle number two we have tobe honest and show integrity,
(03:40):
and those are essential tobuilding trust.
Danny Ray (03:44):
And do you have lying lips, babe?
Kimberly (03:46):
Lying lips.
Lying lips in ships Is thatwhat the stuff?
Isn't there some old phraselike that?
Danny Ray (03:53):
But with honesty right, you have to learn to
speak truthfully to your spouse,like I think it's easy, even
with those that are close to us,to just let like if we know our
spouse is going to bedisappointed if we're home late
it's easier to make an excuse oflike oh, my boss asked me to do
something.
Kimberly (04:11):
Oh, there's traffic oh what's that?
Danny Ray (04:14):
That movie with Tim Allen is at the Santa Clause,
where he's, you know there's.
Kimberly (04:19):
Oh yeah, he's honking at the very beginning he's like
oh, I'm so late, there's so muchtraffic.
Danny Ray (04:23):
He's leaving a message on that.
Yeah, there's nobody.
Kimberly (04:25):
Yeah, totally lying.
Yes, got it.
Yeah, lies are an interestingIn the therapy office I do have.
There's a trend I'll put itthat way, of really just going
why.
Why does my spouse tell theselies?
And it's really difficult tounderstand until you go.
(04:48):
Okay.
Well, what was childhood like?
If it was scary to tell thetruth, if there was a big
consequence, or maybe it wasn'teven a big consequence, but to
them it felt big.
It felt really crushing to knowthat they disappointed mom or
dad or grandma or whoever wasraising them.
And that's it starts way backthen.
Danny Ray (05:11):
And yeah, which is true, but in the context of our
marriage for a second because, Iknow you talk about this in
therapy sessions all the time iswhat happens when I tell my
spouse the truth 2.
They land me to that you know.
Do you know?
Kimberly (05:28):
if I don't tell them the truth is that what you mean
is if it no, if you tell themthe truth, okay um, is it safe?
Is that what you're saying?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so itdoes right.
So what, what?
Promises to lie, tell the liebecause, it's just like okay
that it's safer to tell the liethan if I tell the yes yes,
exactly so, if I have to confessto you that I don't know spent
(05:53):
more money than I did, are youactually confess?
Danny Ray (05:56):
no, it's not actual confession, because it sounds
like an actual confession no,not at the moment, but this can
easily happen, right?
Can I see some receipts toverify?
Kimberly (06:07):
no, no, anyway.
Right, so if I spend more thanI was planning on spending and I
should come to you and say, hey, it ended up being a lot more
than I thought, how much?
No, this is hypothetical.
Danny Ray (06:26):
So my friend.
Kimberly (06:28):
I have a friend who did this one.
Yeah, what should she do I?
So, okay, let me talk.
So, if that is easier, to justtell the lie, because I'm afraid
of what's going to happen whenI say it to you if I say, that's
(06:49):
what prompts us to lie, becausethe fear of what's going to
happen if I tell the truth.
Now, the crazy part is,inevitably, if we tell the lie,
we typically get caught.
Okay, there might be some goodliars out there, but it doesn't
make for a great relationship.
Danny Ray (07:06):
I'm a pretty good liar.
Kimberly (07:08):
I'm a magician yeah, okay, that's weird, but you're
the most honest person I know,as far as everywhere else in
your life, so I excuse so youthink?
oh, wow, okay, I think we haveto talk after this episode.
So we have to.
Getting back to what you saidabout being safe, right?
So the other person has to besafe to receive that information
(07:31):
and to.
So if you fly off the handlewhen I do confess something and
say, hey, I spent way more thanI thought I was going to, on the
, on the, on, blah, blah, blah,first of all, you're gonna be
way more upset when you find outdown the road that I lied to
you, because now that's brokenthat trust.
And going back to the safetypart, if you are somewhere where
(07:55):
I can come to you and say ithonestly and say, hey, I'm
embarrassed, I know I wasn'tplanning on spending this much,
but I did and if you receivethat without flying off the
handle and yes, you might bedisappointed or frustrated or
you know all of those things areacceptable if you will
(08:16):
appropriate, but it doesn't,yeah, you know, are you gonna
make it safe for the otherperson to?
Danny Ray (08:23):
bring that true to you.
So can you talk a little bitabout the difference between
like safety and consequences,because I might see like oh, if.
I receive consequences for myactions, then you're not safe.
But that's not necessarily whatyou're saying.
Kimberly (08:37):
That's true, yeah, so that's an interesting thought.
The two are different.
So if I let's stick with thisexample of I bring it to you and
I say, hey, I know we budgetedthis together, but I ended up
spending this, and you, let'ssay, your reaction, I think for
(08:58):
most people would be frustrationand like dang it, we don't have
that.
And your mind goes to what arewe gonna do Now?
I have to go in to solve it,fix it mode, right.
So you're thinking, you'reusually expressing some
frustration in that moment andbut the consequence is wow,
(09:23):
that's more.
How do you think we do theconsequence part?
The consequence is that it'sembarrassing for me to bring it
to you.
Danny Ray (09:32):
Yeah, but the consequence might be like hey we
need to create a better budget.
I need you to stick to this,and that's not.
You know, whatever thatconversation is isn't
necessarily a fun conversationto have but that I don't think
it's.
You know, if somebody'soverspending, you know
(09:53):
continually and you're just like, oh, it doesn't matter, you
know like that affects children.
So it can't just be in terms ofsafety, like you just go over,
look it every time.
Kimberly (10:08):
Yeah, that's what you're saying, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is there a place to overlook?
Danny Ray (10:12):
and if it's a one-time thing, you know we talk
about that reset button andlike hey, I just want to give
you grace, hey that's not like abig deal out of this.
Kimberly (10:20):
Yeah, if we can overlook an offense, it's to
your glory, right Biblically,yes.
Danny Ray (10:24):
Right, but that's, this is a different.
Kimberly (10:26):
Yeah, continual, If I just keep thinking right, right,
if I just keep thinking, oh, Ican just keep doing it because
he didn't get mad, yeah, that'snot gonna work, that's gonna
break trust for sure.
Principal number three yes,what's principal?
Danny Ray (10:40):
number three.
Kimberly (10:42):
Open and honest communication.
Yeah, do you have?
We have, yeah.
Danny Ray (10:50):
I think with open and honest communications,
communications like the numberone people thing people come to
us with, and definitely you asyou're in counseling on help us
to communicate better, but partof what the real thing is is
it's not that we're notcommunicating, we're not
communicating effectively, andone of the ways to communicate
(11:11):
effectively is to be open aboutwhat's really going on.
So I could say like, for us,right.
One of the struggles we had foryears and it still comes up at
times was the tension of mehaving a stronger sexual drive
(11:31):
and wanting to have sex moreoften and I would do some sort
of bid for your affection orwhatever and you would turn me
down.
It was easier to be upset withyou and not tell you that.
You know, I really did want tohave sex.
I really wanted you, orwhatever that was.
It was easier to get upset andbe frustrated about something
(11:53):
else that you did and not bevulnerable and open to say, hey,
I just really wanted to beintimate with you tonight, right
, and then it took a long timefor you to explain to me that it
felt like rejection and thatyou were hurt by it.
Right, that was much easier orharder to talk about, like the
rejection.
(12:13):
I felt it was easier to likehey, let's create a fight that's
about the car or about the pool, or about you know something
else.
That shifts the pain tosomething else.
So I don't have to bevulnerable.
I don't have to deal with that.
Kimberly (12:31):
But then that kept us in the same cycle of me not
understanding what just happened.
Why were we fighting?
How did we get here?
Just because I said no to youknow, your hand on my knee or
whatever, I don't know yeah.
So, yeah, that's a very goodpoint, in fact, that I'm going
(12:51):
to drop down to principle sixwith that one, because listening
and empathy are crucial to thatpiece, right?
So yeah.
I was able to have much moreempathy for you and
understanding once you were ableto explain hey, I feel rejected
when you do that, yeah thosewords still feel weird coming
out of my mouth.
Danny Ray (13:12):
I use them now because I understand the power
of that communication between usand addressing what's really
going on as a feeling ofrejection and now understanding
you're not rejecting me, but ittook a while to get there and
understand that and have you beempathetic towards me and
(13:35):
understand.
Like, hey, our sex drives aredifferent and how can we meet in
the middle Right, how can?
I meet you, so all those type ofthings.
And I love that you skippeddown to number six, just as a
reminder.
With all of these is there's,they're all connected.
It's not like you could isolateanything in terms of trust and
just go whoa, hey, I've beenopen and honest, but I'm not
(13:59):
consistent, which is number four.
Yes, actually yeah.
Kimberly (14:02):
I'm really glad that you said that.
So, with principle number fourbeing consistent, that goes back
to that example of thetechnology for our podcast broke
my trust and not my finger, notyour finger, no, hitting record
, Hitting record.
No, no, no.
So I'm still going to stick tothat.
So, in breaking the trust justone time really makes us wonder.
(14:27):
As humans we go.
Well, how many other times didthey break my or did they lie to
me?
How many other times did orwhat other things?
If they're lying in this onearea, let's say it's substance
abuse, or substance use thatthat they hide from their spouse
.
And well, if they broke thetrust one time, how do I?
(14:49):
How do I know that they're notdoing it?
And am I the dummy at the endif I'm the one that just kept
trusting and believing?
Danny Ray (14:57):
And enabling really.
Kimberly (14:59):
Yeah, Well, that is the fear, sure that.
I just enabled that and allowedit to happen.
Danny Ray (15:05):
But if we're going to be consistent, so that's the
importance of being consistentwith trust, right, but I think
like, I think of consistency,like like we look at shared
responsibilities in terms of ourhousehold like shores things to
do you know whether it's youknow creating a budget?
(15:28):
Doing the lawn, doing dishes?
Kimberly (15:31):
Well, we do have an amazing neighbor who keeps doing
the lawn right now.
Very thankful for you.
Danny Ray (15:36):
Yes, so that's been a short time, but all the
different responsibilities.
But, like I'll say this, lastweek I missed getting the trash
out, but the consistency foryears and years is I get the
trash out and you do it at times, but it's when we look at
(15:59):
consistency, it's not that younever make a mistake.
Yeah, it's that you have a trackrecord of not.
So if every week you're likeyou didn't get the trash out
again, oh no, I'll do that nextweek.
Then I don't do it again, oh,I'll do that next week.
You know like I come from.
You know a family of alcoholicsand you know when you have day
one of sobriety it's like oh wow, that's amazing.
(16:21):
Let me see what day two lookslike.
Yeah, what week one looks likewhat one month there becomes a
believability, when there'sconsistency instead of hey, I
empty the trash this week, whatmore do you want?
Well, I want it to happen nextweek, yeah, so yeah, if that's
(16:42):
what we agree on and you and I,we talk about this a lot in
terms of our relationship is wedon't pass up like the trash.
If it's overflowing, we don'tgo.
Well, that's the other person'sjob.
Kimberly (16:54):
We just take care of it.
It's the team effort, yeah.
Danny Ray (16:56):
Marriage is a team sport.
We want to make sure that we'rejumping in and if our spouse
hasn't emptied the trash andit's quote their job, it's
seeing the best in them andknowing like, hey, I know they
must be busy.
Kimberly (17:10):
I know they yeah.
Danny Ray (17:11):
There must be a lot going on.
Let me help them out and servethem, as we always want to have
that servant's heart and see thebest in our spouse.
Yeah, I know you do that reallywell for me and in I think it
brings up good conversationabout hey, what's going on?
Talk to me Instead of like thenagging of hey, you didn't do
(17:34):
this.
Kimberly (17:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Danny Ray (17:35):
Is, instead of like, recognizing this is an
opportunity to have a greatconversation with your spouse.
Kimberly (17:42):
Yeah, for sure.
The consistency and trust isreally fascinating to me in that
some people so the taking outthe trash.
I think that's a good example.
Let's say it's some coupleshave okay, so it's his job.
Let's say and If he's hit andmiss with taking out the trash,
(18:07):
doing that that chore weekly,it's difficult to build that
trust and it's really importantthat that trust is built at the
beginning.
Or if you've broken the trust,then that consistency is crucial
to start building that up again.
Because it's interesting howsome people really see that, as
(18:31):
I can't trust you now that youdidn't do what you said you were
going to do, there's acorrelation for some people,
which I don't think happens inour relationship with the trash
example Because you've beenconsistent for so long, it's
easy to overlook the one timethat it doesn't happen.
Right, At least for us, that'snot a huge deal.
(18:53):
I don't feel like, oh my gosh,now I don't know, now I can't
trust him Because theconsistency has been there for
so long and that's one of thethings we've talked about is
just learning to give each othergrace.
It brings so much freedom to therelationship and joy to the
relationship, Because I screw uptoo right.
How can I be pointing thefinger at you and be like, oh,
(19:13):
you missed it this one time.
Well, I miss things too.
Danny Ray (19:16):
And the other thing, like with consistency, there is
a possibility that your spousehas too much on their plate.
Kimberly (19:22):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (19:23):
And go like okay, do we need to shift
responsibilities?
Because if I have time tonotice like oh, she hasn't been
doing the laundry and walkingaround, you know, pointing out
things that you have time to bedoing.
Kimberly (19:36):
Some of the things, ooh, I like that.
Danny Ray (19:39):
So let me say this before we jump into the next one
is in Matthew 537,.
Let's try that again in Matthew537, it says this, and I love
this verse.
It says all you need to say issimply yes or no.
Anything beyond this comes fromthe evil one, and I love the
(20:01):
simplicity of Jesus' teachings.
Kimberly (20:03):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (20:04):
Look, simply let your yes be your yes and your no be
your no.
Period Don't say yes and thendon't do it.
Don't say yes and then figureout like can I do that?
Well, if you say yes, get itdone, if you say no, and both of
those can be noes, protect us.
You know, sometimes we want tosay yes to everything.
(20:26):
But by saying yes to everything,you are saying no to something.
So it's okay to say no.
I don't have the time to dothat right now, you know, could
we talk about another solutionor something along those lines?
Kimberly (20:41):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing with that that I
teach in therapy room is thepower of pausing Right.
And so somebody asks you canyou do this or can you do that?
And pausing and taking time toreally think that through Can I
do that?
Do I want to do that?
Is that a good idea?
(21:03):
If I do that, is that going totake away from something else
I'm supposed to do Right?
So some people have just thisautomatic response of yep, yep,
I'll do that.
Yeah, that sounds great.
They might just be adventurous.
They might be afraid of lettingsomebody down, Whatever their
reason is for saying yesautomatically it gets them into
(21:24):
trouble.
It's not helpful.
It's not letting their yes betheir yes and their no be their
no, because inevitably, if youjust say yes to everything, you
can't, you can't do it all.
So it's okay to pause and thinkabout it and decide wait a
minute, is this a good thing?
Do I need to run it by anybody?
Do I need?
Danny Ray (21:43):
to you know?
Kimberly (21:43):
does it affect anybody else?
Do I have the time, do I havethe finances, whatever?
To do this one thing thatthey're asking, and there are
lots of those that come up allday long, so we just have to.
I lost my train of thought.
That's all right.
I get where you're going withthat, okay, thank you.
Danny Ray (22:03):
Let's wrap it up with principle five.
I know we touched on principlesix, but we'll actually open
with principle six in part twoof this podcast on trust and
building that trust into yourrelationship.
But principle five isaccountability, and I think this
is one in our marriage thatgoes back to that.
Open, honest communication andreally being vulnerable with
(22:25):
those around us is one of thethings like when we've done
marriage classes at our house ordifferent teachings.
That way is one of theassignments, if you will that we
always do is meet with thethree couples that are further
down the road than you and askthem what are they doing?
Kimberly (22:44):
What has helped them.
Danny Ray (22:45):
And so when I look at accountability, is there
anybody in your life that not acounselor, not a pastor, like
friendship wise, or maybeparents or grandparents, or
somebody that you look at theirmarriage and you're like, wow,
they not that any marriage isperfect, but man, they're.
They're a little bit furtherdown the road than we are and
(23:08):
they seem to.
They've had some rough spells,all that, but they seem to
always move through it and havea conversation with them, with
your spouse and just say, hey,this is some of the things we're
struggling with and maybe,being honest, with an area that
you broke trust in your you'relooking at rebuilding that and
(23:29):
that accountability is a hugecomponent, especially when you
look at if there's a habit ofconsistently not telling the
truth, lying.
Even if it's the white lie it'sto protect, it's seen, as you
know, innocent, it's not hurtinganybody.
But if it's come to light andit has hurt your spouse for
(23:52):
whatever reason.
Look at accountability andhaving somebody hey, would you
help me?
You know, it's always at thistime looking for those trigger
points of like when you mightlie is that, you know, when
you're just trying to protectyour spouse, you're like, okay,
I'm just going to tell her orhim, you know this so, and you
(24:14):
don't even have to give the thedetails.
Kimberly (24:16):
Sometimes like I've had accountability with a
girlfriend before where you knowwe just check in with each
other and say, hey, you know,did you remember to pray for
your husband today?
Right?
Danny Ray (24:29):
Things like that.
Kimberly (24:30):
Yes, I'm sure there were times where, yes, I didn't,
yes, I didn't know if youprayed for me today.
Danny Ray (24:35):
All right now.
Kimberly (24:37):
No with you.
Yes, I have not prayed for youtoday.
Thanks for pointing that out, Ihad to be honest, because here
we are.
Wow, I'll work on that, thanks.
Danny Ray (24:47):
No, you're.
Kimberly (24:49):
So, accountability though is, it's actually
interesting, I hear it misusedpretty often because people say,
well, they should beaccountable for their, for their
actions, and yes, butaccountability in our actions
really comes from an externalperson.
(25:10):
So either either you and Iagree hey, can you hold me
accountable in this I'm workingon, I don't know, blah, blah,
blah.
I'm working on something and Isay it's okay.
I mean that, thataccountability.
If I'm asking you and saying,hey, will you keep me
accountable, that means thatevery once in a while, you ask
me hey, how's that going?
What's happening?
(25:30):
You know for you, when, whenyou're trying to do this, is it
hard, is it?
You know?
And having this conversationabout it, it doesn't mean that
you just get to point out hey, Ithought you were working on
this, do it Like, why didn't youdo it?
It's.
It's not a reprimand.
It's somebody coming alongsideyou and and offering hope and
(25:51):
say, oh, it's okay that youdidn't do it.
What are we going to dodifferently?
How can we set you up better?
Danny Ray (25:57):
Yeah, and I've shared probably on here before.
But you know I travel a lot andon the road you know having an
accountability partner but alsohave accountability partners
that aren't on the road with me.
And so when I'm on the road onmy own, I'll reach out to
somebody to say, hey, checkingin the hotel, here's my plan
(26:21):
here's you know, so that I justthink it's one of those things
where it's easy to slip up onthe road.
There's you feel like nobody inthe world knows who you are.
Kimberly (26:31):
I think you can get away with anything.
Danny Ray (26:32):
There's access to every TV channel in the rooms
and the hotels and, yeah, any ofthat stuff there's you know
bars downstairs where you seepeople picking up other people
you know, so there's just waysthat I could easily fall into
traps and having people keep meaccountable of like hey, want to
stay focused, want to stay onthe right side to have that
(26:58):
trust in my marriage.
Kimberly (26:59):
And that's built a ton of trust.
You having that accountabilityhas helped me to trust that and
I don't have to worry about itBecause I know, yeah, you've
been open and honest.
Danny Ray (27:11):
But I don't want to get lazy with that either.
I think accountability is oneof those things.
Oh no, I'm fine.
Kimberly (27:18):
That's when you're not going to be fine, when you
think about like biblicalexamples of, like David Abraham
you look at these.
Danny Ray (27:25):
You know men that are heroes of the faith, but they
still had major areas of failure, and so I don't think anybody's
above accountability, but inour marriage, I think it's one
of those things that will buildtrust between you and your
spouse.
If you're like hey, I'm awarethat this is an issue and I want
(27:49):
to let you know.
Speaking to your spouse, that Ihave these two people keeping
me accountable in this area.
Kimberly (27:56):
Yeah.
Danny Ray (27:56):
And I want to keep you up to date on how I'm doing
it in that area as well.
Yes, and that that is a way ofbuilding communication or
building trust yeah for sure.
So let's wrap it up with thesefive principles that we've given
so far, and we'll give five inthe next one.
But trust is essential honestand principle two honesty and
(28:17):
integrity.
Principle three open and honestcommunication.
Principle four consistency.
And the final one we talkedabout today is accountability.
All of these help build trustin your marriage and when you
have trust in your marriage itjust brings so much joy and hope
and love and to the marriage.
(28:39):
It's foundational and that's whywe brought up these experts
that have all said, these arethe essentials that they've
found have worked in the area ofmarriage, and so we hope that
you're enjoying this podcast.
If you are, please likesubscribe and tell people about
it.
We like to get the word outthere.
(29:00):
We really want to helpmarriages do whatever it takes
to create a great marriage.
So this is Danny Ray andKimberly with.
We do whatever it takes.
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