August 3, 2024 • 48 mins
Welcome to We Have Kids! In our first episode, Lindsay talks about moving from Minnesota to Utah, her healthcare background, and dealing with anxiety and insomnia as a new mom. Jordan shares her epic love story that spanned continents and the highs and lows of long-distance marriage.
We dive into the unexpected struggles of breastfeeding, including Lindsay’s experience with Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex (D-MER), and share tips on keeping the spark alive in your relationship with some cheeky advice on scheduling intimacy.
Tune in, laugh with us, and feel the connection. We’ve got kids, and we’ve got your back!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
lindsay (00:00):
It's really hard to um, just go hang out and like, we're
(00:04):
literally hanging out over naptime right now.
Jordan (00:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
My kid's asleep
lindsay (00:07):
upstairs.
So we find like these likemoments where like, can you
walk?
I can go on a walk, you know,like we don't live too far from
each other.
So we're like, okay, let's do,let's do a walk quick and just.
Get a fix of Like another humanthat can relate to what you're
going through.
Absolutely.
I
Jordan (00:22):
see you taking like a big inhale to take a sigh, And
we're on.
Oh, hi.
Hey.
Yeah.
lindsay (00:39):
Hello.
This is so exciting.
Yeah,
Jordan (00:41):
super exciting.
OK.
All right, let's get into it.
I'm Jordan.
I've already said, um.
Stop.
lindsay (00:50):
I'm just kidding.
I'm Jordan.
I'm Lindsay.
Lindsay.
With May.
Jordan (00:57):
And, uh, welcome.
This is the We Have Kidspodcast.
lindsay (01:02):
They are officially mind blown moms.
We are.
First time moms that must starta podcast about all the things.
Too
Jordan (01:10):
much to talk about.
Not to.
lindsay (01:11):
Yeah.
I think our topic list is Over athousand.
Yeah.
Of things.
Yeah.
So,
Jordan (01:17):
uh, kick back.
Yes.
I hope you got some time and acouple of kids to follow along
with us.
Yeah.
Alright.
Yeah.
So, tell us about yourself,Lindsay.
lindsay (01:27):
We're gonna do a little intro here.
Yeah.
I am Lindsay I am a mother of a11 month old daughter.
She's my first born and I am aMinnesota, Utah.
I moved, I'm a transplant toUtah.
Lost my Minnesota accent.
A little bit.
A little bit, yeah.
I do get Same bag.
Yeah.
(01:48):
It's big Yeah.
I didn't realize I said thatword every day until I moved
here.
Yep.
You say it all the time.
And then immediately got teasedevery single day.
So yeah.
Now in Utah.
Love it.
Family and friends still backhome.
Still love Minnesota for all thecertain seasons.
If you're from Minnesota, youknow those seasons.
(02:08):
And then.
Yeah, if you, just to shorten itup about my little personality,
I am a fear of the unknown,anxious, insomniac.
I only have to have those wordsfor you to understand who
exactly I am.
Especially if you're a mom.
Um, fear of the unknown.
Yeah, that's gonna, it reallyset me up for a first time
(02:32):
child.
I think I get that from workingin healthcare.
I've been in healthcare for 13years ish, going on 14.
I work in the operating room,not so much, uh, since my
daughter was born.
I took a hiatus from thehealthcare world.
I actually came back a littlebit after COVID.
If you know, you know, yeah,I've been a stay at home mom
(02:55):
with, my daughter, it's beengreat and tough and exhausting
all at the same time.
It's wonderful, beautiful,exhausting thing.
So fear of the unknown.
Yes.
Uh, all the first.
All the firsts of everythingleaves me incredibly anxious.
I like to know what I'm doing inorder to just feel conquered and
(03:16):
get through it.
But all the lessons have comeand then anxious.
Yeah, you can call me anxious.
If I didn't have like sixbottles ready for her in the
fridge at all times, I wasfreaking out.
It's tough.
and then obviously after a fewmonths of that, anxiety, um, had
to kick, just kind of chill outa little bit.
(03:37):
and then insomniac.
Yeah, I'm a light sleeper.
I, I, I'm going to say it comesfrom my health care days working
on call in the middle of thenight, waiting for that phone to
go off.
I've always been a really lightsleeper and then dealt with
insomniac when I was pregnant.
first big first trimestersymptoms I had, and then that
just literally never went away.
(03:58):
So I do all the nighttime thingssometimes, uh, Jordan and I will
do a little Marco Polo videos.
Yes.
She'll open up my, my Marco Poloand it's like red light, orange
glasses late at night, likesettling in for bedtime.
I do all the sleep rituals sothat I don't deal with insomnia.
(04:23):
Uh, it's tough.
I pretty much have to do, do itin order not to get it, through
the night.
So that's me healthcare, 13years.
I've been a server for 20.
It got me through college andafterwards, great part time gig.
Started in a mom pop cafe, smalltown in Minnesota.
Then on to supper clubs, if youdon't know what those are.
(04:45):
Those are like a big dinnerclub.
Steak and beans and potatoes.
A big ol supper club.
I've never heard of that.
And then on to a European.
Fine Dining, which opened myworld for the passion of cooking
and learning all about raisinganimals and everything.
So I've been in Forbes FineDining since,, gosh, probably
(05:09):
the last 10 years.
And then, yeah.
I know all the things I know.
I know all the things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've seen it all done at allpretty much in the restaurants.
Yeah.
If you have any questions in thefuture, you just ask away about
restaurant life.
We go.
Yeah.
So that's pretty much about
Jordan (05:27):
me.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, that's an easy segue.
I met Lindsay in one of thoserestaurants.
Yes.
lindsay (05:33):
That's why we're here.
God,
Jordan (05:34):
how many
lindsay (05:35):
years ago?
What was that?
2000, I mean, I started there in20, 2018, I think.
What?
You did?
Yeah.
So I'm pushing like seven ishyears, but I, I worked in the
fine dining restaurant.
You were in kind of the morecash restaurant.
Yeah.
So I probably knew of you.
(05:55):
Yeah, but I worked a few
Jordan (05:56):
shifts down there.
Yeah, that's so I remember.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember the very first shiftI worked with you.
Oh, I was, yeah.
I was like a server and I think,I don't know if you were my back
waiter, if you were someoneelse, er in for somebody.
I was.
I'm, I've been at this placethat we work for like an
embarrassingly long time.
I've been a server, I've beenworking in that restaurant since
(06:16):
2000.
This is gonna shock everyone.
2007.
Woo.
Yeah.
I started as a little hostess,and it was just a part time
second job.
Yeah, I was.
Thanks for aging me.
lindsay (06:33):
If anyone's aged, I was out of high school in 2007.
Um,
Jordan (06:38):
yeah, so I started there in 2007 as a hostess, kind of
just moved up to a servingposition, and had kind of a wild
ride of adult life, so I, Istayed there.
It worked out with me along.
Some crazy journeys, uh, whichwe can get tuned in a second.
But yeah, that first shift Iworked with you.
I remember Talking to you at theend of the shift.
(07:00):
I specifically remember you weretalking about because I was in
nursing school at the time Oh,yeah, so I was also sort of
dipping my toe into health careand we were talking about how
Lindsay was a surgical Surgicalassistant.
Yes, and she was telling me thatUs if you smoke Cutting into
your skin feels like cuttinginto the skin of like an old
(07:21):
banana.
Oh yeah! And I was like, that's
lindsay (07:24):
so cool.
Yes, yes, yes.
This girl's rad.
A very ripe banana is eithersomeone that's, you know, maybe
elderly, they've lost somecollagen in their skin, or
chronic smoker, or someone thatjust doesn't drink water, or
drinks too much alcohol maybe intheir life.
Go
Jordan (07:44):
have some water, everyone.
Yeah, we have 40 ounces rightnext to us ready to go.
That's great.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That's what I remember.
Um, yeah, and we've kind of beenpretty good friends ever since,
but I would say that ourfriendship definitely leveled up
when we decided we were ready toprocreate.
Yes.
(08:04):
Yes.
Yeah.
lindsay (08:04):
Yeah.
That was so funny.
So you're married.
I'm recently married.
We were, I don't know what madeus talk about having families,
but I probably asked you, areyou guys going to, you know,
have kids someday?
Because your life is just wildand traveling and all over the
place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You and your husband's.
And I recall our, one of ourgreat late, uh, co workers, you
(08:26):
were pregnant and I gotpregnant, like probably not too
long afterwards.
And he's like, are you pregnant?
Cause Jordan's pregnant.
Oh, you're so sweet.
I'm definitely not planning myentire life just because one of
my great.
Great friends at work is likepregnant.
So that was really, and he justmeant it absolutely genuinely.
(08:46):
And like, it was so sweet.
I'll always remember him by thatcomment.
Plus that
Jordan (08:50):
heart.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so good.
No, we didn't plan our livesaround each other, but it's
worked out really nicely for us.
Yeah.
So me and my husband, Lindsayjust said she's recently
married.
We're, uh, we got married in2017.
I met him, the same way I've meteveryone in my entire adult
life, which is through the placeI work.
(09:11):
It's a ski resort, and, yeah,it's been a great place for
meeting tons and tons of newpeople.
Um, I served him.
He was in town filming one ofour really good friends, um, who
was a pretty prolific iceclimber.
He, my husband did, like,adventure film work back in the
day, right?
Love hearing about the stories.
Yes, and I'm like a huge rockclimber, and he was a huge rock
(09:32):
climber, so we hit it offimmediately, had tons to talk
about.
He was in town, he is actuallyfrom the UK, so he was only in
town for like a week.
We hung out a couple of times,we really liked each other, and
I was, again, I was in nursingschool at the time, and I
remember that During theupcoming semester break, I was
planning a trip to Europe.
So I told Adrian, hey, I'm goingto Europe.
(09:52):
Should we hang out?
And he invited me to stay withhim in England.
We went on a climbing trip toSpain together.
And then had basically like,I'll give you the super
condensed version.
Like three to four years ofcrazy long distance.
visa trouble riddledRelationship after we got
(10:14):
married it took us three yearsto get his visa to live in the
US So we spent time I lived inthe UK for a little bit We did a
lot of traveling together forwork.
I kind of helped him with hisfilm making journey for a little
while there and Yeah, weeventually landed in British
Columbia for a little whilewhile we waited for his visa to
go through.
And then finally in 2020, aftera very rough COVID period for
(10:38):
us, living in differentcountries, that was insane.
Um, Yeah, he finally made itback and we landed here in
lindsay (10:44):
Utah.
I remember, our resort closeddown for COVID.
Yeah, that was crazy.
And you were like, I'm bookingit to Canada.
I had to hustle.
Yeah, cause he was in Canada atthe time.
Yeah, that was.
And you, you drove probably asfast as
Jordan (10:58):
possible.
Oh, I absolutely.
So that was
lindsay (11:01):
crazy.
Yeah.
The border was like, we'reclosing.
About to shut.
Like the clock is ticking.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you were trying to raceagainst the clock and you, I'll
never forget the day, like you.
Either called me or you text meand you like pulled over the
moment you got past the board.
(11:22):
Yeah, so happy could not keep ittogether it gives me goosebumps
just thinking about it
Jordan (11:26):
what a crazy crazy Yeah, so glad I'm so glad that's over.
Who else is glad it's over.
lindsay (11:31):
Yeah Yeah, your story is like storybook worthy for
sure.
Jordan (11:35):
Yeah, maybe we can
go
lindsay (11:37):
into greater adventures Yeah.
I met my husband and anothercommon way that people meet is
on Tinder.
We work with younger folks.
Yeah.
These, uh, and it sounds likeTinder is just like kind of a
nightmare right now.
I don't know if it is or not,but like, it just sounds
Jordan (11:53):
like.
No, I'm very, very grateful tohave never had to get my
lindsay (11:56):
tongue into that.
I met my husband through Tinderin the beginning days of Tinder.
I think I was on it for fivedays.
Just wasn't meeting guys, like,I was very social, just wasn't
meeting somebody that was,filling up my cup.
And I met him, he was in Maui atthe time.
I was back in the Midwest, andwe talked for a few months.
I met his mom before I met him.
(12:19):
He aligned a nice littlebreakfast for us.
Jordan (12:22):
Everyone's dream.
Yeah.
lindsay (12:23):
Yeah.
Yes.
He's like, I need to really makesure she does not have a penis.
No, um, he, yeah, he lined up anice little breakfast and
actually had a really fantastictime with her.
And then I flew out to Mauiafter a few months of talking,
hung out with him out there forten ish days, I think, and it
(12:45):
went great, had a great time.
And then he came back to themainland that spring and started
his job search.
He was going to school onlineand finally graduated, job
searched, and that's whatbrought us out to Utah is we
were looking in areas of thecountry where we really like to,
like, we're big hunters andfishers and outdoorsy people.
I hike and do all the funoutdoorsy stuff.
(13:05):
So we looked in areas of thecountry where we could do all
that.
And that's where he applied to.
and one of them brought us outto Utah and the rest is history.
Why
Jordan (13:16):
are we here?
Yes.
Great question.
What brings us to thesebeautiful microphones?
Well, as a mom or even a parent,I guess we can kind of like
expand that to everybody.
I think that everyone has hadthe experience of.
Well, a couple of differentexperiences, right?
So my experience of podcastingin parenthood is.
(13:37):
It gives me, uh, an outlet,something to listen to while I'm
endlessly folding laundry.
Yes.
Yes.
Or driving around runningerrands, like there's always
lindsay (13:47):
something nice.
Finding somebody you can relateto.
Absolutely.
Outside of your home.
Yeah.
Jordan (13:52):
Yeah.
There's a lot to, there's a biglearning curve when it comes to
parenting.
lindsay (13:56):
Yeah.
I think that I would say thatwe're mind blown by, I think I
mentioned that already, butwe're absolutely mind blown by
all the first.
Yeah.
Things.
Yeah,
Jordan (14:04):
you can't prepare for it.
No.
You totally can't
lindsay (14:07):
prepare for it.
What the hell?
No way.
Like what, what just happened toour lives?
And it's been really nice, likeour, our kids are a few months
apart and uh, it's been awonderful journey.
Like doing it together or, youknow, kind of essentially doing
it together and following alongand learning from Jordan and
going through all the thingsshe's gone through.
But yeah, also experiencing iton my own too and it being vast,
(14:30):
like completely different.
So different.
Yeah.
And so it's been great to, justvent to each other and ask each
other and like, what the hell,like all the things.
And also like we come acrossthese new things we're learning
about.
Hey, did you learn about this orcheck this out or this could
help or
Jordan (14:46):
whatever.
Yeah, absolutely.
Bouncing ideas off, sharinglearning resources, asking how
things went for you.
lindsay (14:53):
It's really hard to um, just go hang out and like, we're
literally hanging out over naptime right now.
Jordan (14:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
My kid's asleep
lindsay (15:01):
upstairs.
So we find like these likemoments where like, can you
walk?
I can go on a walk, you know,like we don't live too far from
each other.
So we're like, okay, let's do,let's do a walk quick and just.
Get a fix of Like another humanthat can relate to what you're
going through.
Absolutely.
I
Jordan (15:15):
see you taking like a big inhale to take a sigh, get a
fix of just that offloading,offloading of all of that mom
energy or parent energy that youjust like carry with you all day
long.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're hoping to kind of just beable to be that for you guys.
lindsay (15:31):
Yeah.
Listen in there's, there's like,we've done tons, we've listened
to tons of podcasts aboutparenting and there's tons out
there for like researchingcertain topics.
If you're wondering aboutsomething.
It's specific, you can go findit, but this is kind of just
more of like a hangout mom seshtoo.
I have found myself likelistening to, if I need to learn
about a topic, okay, I go intothe podcast and I'll go, I'll
(15:54):
search the episode.
And I'll zone out halfwaythrough it because I'm just
like, my brain literally justcan't acknowledge what all the
research, I just need to hangout with like, I just needed
like too much data.
Yeah.
I just need to like hang out andtalk to my mom.
So that's what we're
Jordan (16:11):
doing.
Yeah.
We're not data analysts just forthe record.
Yes.
lindsay (16:14):
That's not our fun topics of things we've gone
through or things we want totalk about or things that are
approaching, but yeah, we'velike been through
Jordan (16:23):
some, some shit.
Yeah.
We've experienced some stuff.
It's probably different to whatyou've experienced, but I'm sure
that there's something if youhave a kid Anywhere nearby you.
Mm hmm.
We'll probably be talking aboutsomething you kind of can
understand.
Mm hmm.
lindsay (16:38):
Yeah Yeah on mom level.
Jordan (16:41):
Yes on mom on the deepest
lindsay (16:46):
Deepest mom love.
But very superficial researchedlevel.
Yeah, yeah,
Jordan (16:51):
yeah, yeah.
Superficially researched deepmom shit.
This is us.
Yeah.
So welcome to our podcast.
Yeah, let's go.
We have kids.
lindsay (16:59):
That's all.
That's all you need to know.
Jordan (17:05):
Great, so each episode we have something that we, that
one of us has looked into.
Mm hmm.
Um, whether that's a little bitsuperficially, maybe we're
digging in and doing like alittle bit more research.
But yeah, just something we canbring to the table and talk
about that maybe, maybe itdoesn't get talked about enough,
or maybe we talk about it waytoo much, but we can't help
ourselves.
(17:26):
Yes.
Maybe it's a burning questionthat we've had somewhere along
the way.
And we think that someone outthere could benefit from hearing
what we've gone through orhearing what we, yeah, have
learned.
So this week.
Lindsay's going to tell us alittle bit about something
lindsay (17:41):
that she experienced.
When we were talking abouttopics to start with, this one
has my heart because I wentthrough it quite, I went through
quite the ringer, if you will,uh, going through this.
It's called Deemer.
We're going to talk aboutDeemer.
Yeah.
Something I don't know muchabout.
Yeah.
She didn't, uh, Jordan didn'texperience Deemer.
(18:01):
Tell us all about it.
A lot of, I'll, I'll mention, Ifound this out through, I, I
joined like a mom's first timemom's Facebook group, which had
its, has its ups and downs.
Um, and I, yeah, yeah, yeah, itgets a little, there's some, you
know, there's some anxious momsout there, but.
Um, it's a good resource if you,if you have questions and, and
(18:24):
need just community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everybody needs
Jordan (18:27):
that.
As moms, especially you gottahave that.
So I
lindsay (18:30):
threw in the question, Hey, what do you guys, what, if
you guys are all like breastfedor pumped and you have these
symptoms only during thesetimes.
What, like, can I hear from you?
And one of the moms was like,you have DMER.
Absolutely.
And I had never heard of thisterm.
It's D M E R.
(18:50):
Yep.
Acronym for dysphoric milkejection reflux.
which obviously is a very hardterm to remember.
Yeah.
So tell us about, tell us aboutthat person.
It's fascinating.
Um, it's, it's not somethingthat happens throughout the
entire postpartum phase.
It's only happening during afast letdown, breastfeeding has
(19:13):
more intense symptoms thanpumping due to the oxytocin.
Release it's
Jordan (19:19):
because of the oxytocin.
Yeah, that's wild.
I thought that there was like alack of Oxytocin
lindsay (19:24):
or something.
No, so that's kind of whattriggers the dopamine to release
from your brain and Demer isFrom dopamine dropping too fast.
Oh, wow.
So my dopamine rate wasabsolutely Astronomically too
fast.
I would I could literally feelit just like wiping my brain
(19:44):
empty That's wild
Jordan (19:45):
and you would think like somebody who hasn't experienced
this Yeah might be listening toLindsay and thinking that that
sounds like kind of euphoric.
Yes However, uh, but yeah,
lindsay (19:58):
yeah, the very opposite of euphoric.
It's a very intense feeling.
I've actually videoed myselflike going through it just just
because it was like, I gotta seewhat like I actually look like
physically going through this.
Can you tell
Jordan (20:09):
us about like, yeah, what the Yes.
Get really into like the actual,yeah, just
lindsay (20:14):
experience.
So I would, um, start abreastfeed session and, takes
about few, a good few minutes,obviously everybody's very
different, but their milk letdown can happen anywhere between
three to 10 minutes.
It's like you somewhere inthere, 10 minutes is obviously
on the longer end of it, butwithin a few minutes I would
have a milk let down.
(20:35):
Um, which was also too fast formy daughter, uh, she struggled
with that, but I would feelsymptoms of intense negativity,
sadness, it would almost feellike a haze.
If you will.
It felt like my brain was likethe darkest, grayest cloud, very
heavy.
(20:55):
And that was happening during myletdown.
And what happens with that isall your dopamine has left your
brain.
And you have no more feeling oflike, you know, happiness or
anything, everyone kind of tellsyou this breastfeeding game is a
journey.
It's so beautiful.
You connecting your bonding.
And I was not having any of thatfeeling going on.
It was literally somethingchemically going on in my brain.
(21:17):
And so what got me through that,and I'll, I'll know that this as
researched and it's not, um,related to postpartum
depression, you can havepostpartum depression.
You can have postpartum anxiety.
I had PPA, but, um, DEMUR issomething like separated from
that.
(21:38):
I looked this up, I went nuts, Ilike asked this mom group friend
on Facebook, they said DEMUR,check it out.
Went online, found a ton ofinformation on it, about it.
Not a lot of people knew aboutit.
I mean, I would go to mytherapist, I'd tell my fertility
acupuncturist, I'd tell myfriends, I'd tell my sister, I
would tell my mom, like nobodyheard about this.
(21:58):
It all experienced, you know, mysister experienced it incredibly
and she had no idea it had aname to it.
So anyways, your dopamine isemptied from your brain at a
fast rate, and that's what canbring on these symptoms of like,
heavy brain, if you will.
Jordan (22:13):
Yeah, like doom, I think is the word that you used when
you told me about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sounded terrifying.
Absolutely doomed.
And it's especially terrifyingbecause it's at a time that you,
like you said, is supposed to beso beautiful and like you're
connecting.
So to feel something that islike totally the opposite of
that must have been sodisorienting.
Yes,
lindsay (22:33):
it was because I It was feeding my child,
Jordan (22:36):
which is also by the way, something that you need to
do one way or another.
Yes.
lindsay (22:41):
Like how am I going to get through this over and over
and over and over.
And so this also happens foreach milk letdown.
She'd switch onto the next sideand it happened again for the
next letdown.
So how long did it last?
So, yeah, so it only lasts a fewminutes because you're waiting
for that dopamine to fill up inyour brain again.
It can take anywhere between.
I think, like I mentioned, kindof similar to like a letdown,
(23:02):
like three to ten minutes.
There's no like standard, um,But
Jordan (23:05):
it goes away pretty quickly after it's finished
lindsay (23:08):
feeding.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
I would set a timer on my phonefor five minutes just so that I
could feel better that it wasnot going to last more than
that.
I felt like it
Jordan (23:17):
was to remind yourself that it was
lindsay (23:19):
temporary.
Yeah, to remind myself it wastemporary.
And I think that's what, like,helped me continue
breastfeeding.
I wanted to continue.
I wasn't feeling too awful inthe moments of doing it, but It
did get to a point where it justwas not happening because my
letdown was so fast for mydaughter.
(23:39):
And so then I started pumping.
Were
Jordan (23:41):
you experiencing Demer from like the moment you started
breastfeeding in the hospital?
No, I
lindsay (23:45):
don't remember.
I do not remember those feelingsat the hospital at all.
So when would you, I wouldprobably say with like it
started.
So she had some latching issues.
We went, we worked withlactation consultants within the
first month of her and thenprobably, Shortly after that, it
started kicking in and I don'tknow if that was like my body's
(24:05):
like hormones changing Afterpregnancy and after giving birth
and all that and so it wasprobably like a month to four
months We had a big vacationthree months after she was born
and I exclusively pumped fromthat point on I remember trying
to breastfeed once coming backfrom that and it wasn't just the
demer was so intense and I waslike Alright, I'm done.
(24:27):
Yeah, so then I started pumpingand pumping with demer It's a
little different.
You don't have such a oxytocinrelease because you're not
bonding with your baby You'rekind of separated from that and
so I would say like myexperience from pumping with
Deemer was extreme nauseous.
I didn't have like the doom thatyou mentioned.
I didn't have like that feelingof doom I didn't have like the
(24:48):
haze didn't have like the theheavy like dark cloud in my
mind.
It was just more extremenauseous I felt like I could
throw up Across the room everysingle time I put that pump on
it.
Yeah,
Jordan (25:00):
and if you've ever pumped before you know that it's
fun enough Without feelingabsolutely nauseated.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was a whole
lindsay (25:08):
trip.
So that was my personalexperience with Deemer so just
Yeah, just to go on and on aboutit.
It's not necessarily somethingevery mom goes through.
It's not something that everymom will go through for each
child that she has.
I have talked with other peoplethat have had DEMUR for their
first baby and didn't have itfor their second baby.
Did your sister have it for her?
She exclusively pumped hersecond child, and I don't recall
(25:33):
her telling me she was nauseous.
Alright, interesting.
So, yeah, so I'm hopeful that Inever have to go through
something like that again.
Yeah, fingers crossed.
But at least I know, like, if Ido, you know, it's gonna be
okay, and I'll just get throughit and figure it out.
So yeah, not every single momgoes through something like
this, and I think that'sprobably why it's not discussed.
I mean, I was pretty, I waspretty bummed that my lactation
(25:54):
consultants in the hospital, Ihad my child in the hospital, I
had visits from the lactationconsultants there, I had a visit
after I left the hospital, likea week after being home, and I
was pretty bummed that They giveyou so much information and it
almost goes right over yourhead.
Yeah.
Jordan (26:13):
Especially after you've just gone through labor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
lindsay (26:16):
yeah.
Yeah.
They, I mean, they load you upwith all the information they
possibly can, which is wonderfuland great.
It's a great resource, but I waskind of bummed that my lactation
consultants didn't come frontand say, Hey, you're going to,
you might feel this with yourbaby.
I just wish there was more focuson like
Jordan (26:32):
that.
I wonder what percentage ofwomen do experience something
like this.
It's gotta be, I mean, I, my, mygut is telling me it's gotta be
low, but again, that's becausenobody's talking about it.
And it could be something like,there's a, there's really a lot
of like shame for some reasonaround breastfeeding and feeding
(26:53):
your children.
Like, this is a huge thing thatso many women.
Face, like if they for somereason can't breastfeed and they
have to formula feed or pump andfeed, which by the way is
breastfeeding.
And I think that that likelittle bit of shame, like if
things aren't going perfectlywell, just feeling like you're
not doing a good enough job as amom.
Oh yeah.
We'll keep people from talkingabout
lindsay (27:14):
the negative experiences they have.
And if you go through somethinglike this, you're just going to
be like, it must just be part oflike, yeah, something's wrong
with me.
You can't tell people aboutthat.
Yeah, and it must just be some,a side effect or a symptom of,
excuse me, a symptom ofpostpartum depression or
something that.
Yeah.
Jordan (27:30):
If you've experienced anything like this, talk about
it.
Yeah.
Please talk about it.
It helps so much to know thatyou're not alone.
lindsay (27:37):
Yeah.
There's some resources that I'mgoing to post here.
Um, I went to deemer.
org.
Um, I went to Cleveland Clinic,uh, Medela, our famous, like,
hand pump that everybody loves.
They have a great article aboutit.
But, um, one of my researches,it was like, it was really low.
It was like only 5 to 9 percentof people that are lactating.
That's not that
Jordan (27:57):
low.
Yeah, like 5 to 9%?
That's not that low.
That's like enough that weshould have heard about it.
Yeah, you're
lindsay (28:04):
right.
I feel like we never hear aboutanything when it's under 20%.
Weird.
Don't you?
Like, I don't know.
Like, what is the actualpercentage that makes it
something significant when allof it is significant to talk
about?
Yeah.
Jordan (28:17):
God, great point.
I don't know.
That's wild.
So, if, uh, what advice wouldyou give to somebody who, like,
thinks they might be goingthrough this?
lindsay (28:25):
Obviously, hit up Deemer.
org.
The girl that, um, has thiswebsite.
She has a wonderful PowerPoint.
Like visually showing you whatit may can look like I would go
there I would absolutely get ahold of your lactation
consultancy if they knowanything about it They should I
would hope they do
Jordan (28:43):
and if you don't know where to find a lactation
Consultant if you didn't givebirth in a hospital or if you
didn't see a lactationconsultant in the hospital Your
local hospital should absolutelyhave a resource for you if you
call them.
Oh,
lindsay (28:54):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would go deemer.
org lactation consultants andjust start researching I love
your type A approach.
Yeah, yes.
Just do
Jordan (29:05):
research.
lindsay (29:06):
Yeah, find it.
Whatever you're going through,you should totally be talking
about it, researching.
Researching your symptoms.
All the things narrow it downfor yourself.
And just another tip I would sayis obviously learning or going
through it and learning from it.
It is not, it is temporary.
Jordan (29:24):
Yeah.
I think that's critical.
What any
lindsay (29:27):
suffering and what is important to is when you, if say
you're listening to this episodeand you are currently
breastfeeding or lactating ingeneral, hearing That is
temporary is probably like youjust want to throw your fist in
the wall like you're in it andyou just don't want to hear it's
temporary because you feel likeit's never going to be.
It's never temporary, but it istemporary.
(29:49):
Here to reassure you promise.
Um, but Hey, and if it, if, ifyou end up having demerits
second round, it's a okay toresort to pumping.
If you don't want to pump, it'sa okay to resort to formula and
just know that like all of it'sokay.
You have to take care ofyourself first.
I am somebody that was just kindof so connected to my child,
(30:12):
like being the force behind allof her food.
Yeah.
For a long time.
Of course you were connected tothat.
And like, that was just like, Ihave to do it, I have to fight
through it, I have to fightthrough it.
And you pumped for
Jordan (30:23):
so long.
Yeah.
How long did you exclusivelypump for?
lindsay (30:27):
I exclusively pumped for six and a half months.
That's insane.
Oh, no, seven and a half.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Seven and a half months.
That's a long time.
So, it is a long time.
Um, yeah.
Yeah, I remember when I wasgoing through it for three
months, exclusively pumping andtalking to you about it.
You're like, you've done it forso long.
Like you were such a goodcheerleader.
(30:48):
Just even know that like threemonths of pumping is a long time
and it's
Jordan (30:52):
three weeks, three minutes of pumping.
It feels like a long, long time.
I didn't have this experienceobviously that Lindsay had.
Um, my breastfeeding journeywas.
Privileged, but I, I mean, I ama full time working mom, so I do
pump at work and I did have thatexperience and I've cleaned a
(31:14):
fair share of pump parts.
And I'm here to say that I neverwant to do it again.
So my hat was off to Lindsayfor, for going so long.
Yeah.
And honestly, like, yeah, fromthree months or even sooner,
like I wasn't telling her whatto do by any means, but like
kind of always nudging in like,Hey, if you, Want to switch to
(31:34):
formula.
You can switch to formula.
Yes.
And I think that's somethingthat is so important for us to,
like, there's so much pressureto breastfeed.
Mm hmm.
There's so much pressure tobreastfeed.
lindsay (31:44):
Just the fact that you're, you have food for your
child in your body alone.
Just that fact.
Of
Jordan (31:51):
is pressure is pressure.
Yeah, it's crazy.
So yeah, it's hard for me to saylike, as somebody who didn't
need to, to supplement withformula or to exclusively
formula feed.
It's hard for that to come fromme.
But, uh, yeah, I just saw whatshe was going through and it
didn't feel worth it.
lindsay (32:10):
Yeah, and there really is no treatment for this.
I've kind of dived in and lookedaround and, um, there's really
no treatment, it's just like,get through it.
Yeah, so much of motherhood.
Yeah, yeah, and if you, andlike, for me, that's me saying,
like, just get through itbecause I really just, like, had
to get through it.
But if you don't want to getthrough it, you don't have to
get through it, so, yeah,
Jordan (32:31):
yeah.
Deemer.
Deemer.
I hope that you.
I hope you're not experiencingit.
And if you are experiencing it,I hope you have some resources.
Yeah.
If not, just give us a shoutout.
Email us.
Lindsay will talk to you for aminute.
lindsay (32:48):
I'd love to.
Yeah.
Jordan (32:50):
So, uh, Speaking of oxytocin.
lindsay (32:56):
Yes.
Hormones.
How much,
Jordan (33:00):
how much sex are you having Lindsay?
lindsay (33:04):
Would you say it's
Jordan (33:05):
less?
Would you say it's less thanbefore you
lindsay (33:09):
had your baby?
Jordan (33:10):
It's less?
Yeah.
Okay, yeah.
Cool.
So my experience isn't, isn'tisolated.
Ben.
Yeah.
No.
lindsay (33:17):
If someone's having more sex postpartum,
Jordan (33:22):
please inquire.
Give us a call.
We need
lindsay (33:27):
to know what's happening.
We'd like to figure out why.
Jordan (33:30):
Tell us how you're doing it.
Yeah.
Please.
Uh, yeah, so sex, everybodyknows this.
I'm not coming in hot with newinformation.
People with kids are having lesssex.
Period.
Like, there's just no way.
There's just no way around it.
Your time is constrained.
(33:51):
Your energy it doesn't existanymore.
Right.
Adrian and I, we go to bed atnight.
I mean, and it's like,
lindsay (33:59):
it's hard to even notice.
Like my husband's natural, likepheromones again.
Oh yeah.
You know, like totally thingsthat like has sent that would
turn me on.
Like, I can't, I don't evenlike.
Jordan (34:10):
Your brain is in so many other places.
That's like the last priority.
Yeah, right.
Yes Yes and that's just theproblem like sex becomes a Last
priority for all of us like whenI sit down at the start of the
I'm very goal oriented I have alittle bullet journal.
Um, I like to write down At thestart of the week, everything
(34:31):
that I, that is important to me,I try to prioritize it, I plan
it in, I wrote it into acalendar.
Me and Adrienne have a sharedGoogle calendar that we're very
vehement about updating andkeeping nice and clean and tidy
so that we're all on the samepage about everything.
And
lindsay (34:46):
here's the thing.
It's a whole unit.
Yeah, it's a system.
Andrew and I have the same,like, calendar.
You got to.
You
Jordan (34:52):
got to.
Here's the thing.
If you asked any random parenthow much of a priority their sex
life was in their relationship Ithink you'd get the same answer
for most people.
Yeah.
And that is that it's important.
Yeah.
It's important.
Yeah.
But it's like, when I sit downto my calendar, guess what's not
on it?
I know.
The sex.
(35:14):
Who wants to schedule sex?
You don't want to schedule sex.
Okay, but here's my hot take forthis week.
For this episode, I should say.
Scheduling sex needs to be athing when you're a parent.
If you want to prioritize it,you've got to put it in the
calendar.
Yep.
Even if you're not really acalendar person, I really think
(35:35):
this is super important.
What it tells your partner isthat a, I still am attracted to
you, which for like for mepersonally is something that I
think Adrian would love to hear.
Like, I don't tell him that inany kind of way.
I get home from work at the endof the night and if he comes in
for a hug, I'm like, you betterstep away.
lindsay (35:58):
Get
Jordan (35:59):
those hands ten feet away from me.
Yes.
I'm gonna go take a shower.
Yeah, and you can't come peek at
lindsay (36:06):
me.
Yeah
Jordan (36:11):
Totally I get so touched out, you know, you're so
overstimulated.
Yeah everything.
Yeah, even I mean you're a stayat home mom You're not getting
overstimulated at work like I amnow, but you're definitely
getting overstimulated overtouched.
Absolutely.
Yeah in all the ways.
Yes Um, so yeah, I need to betelling my partner that I, that
I care about him and that Ilike, I, this is something that
(36:32):
I want still, right?
Um, and for me, the only way todo that, the only way to work
that into like the, the thousandother things that I'm trying to
get done this week is to remindmyself that it is enough of a
priority that I want it in thecalendar.
And Yeah, this is a hot takebecause I don't think that a lot
of people like the idea of thatpeople wanna have spontaneous
(36:52):
sex.
lindsay (36:53):
Scheduling sounds like just like the worst.
It's so admin.
Yeah, but here's, here's, like,for instance, what we do, we
have a very busy schedule.
Andrew's got certain things thathe does.
Certain days I have things goingon certain days.
But we, the way to schedule itin is yo, like Fridays, there's
nothing else for us to do.
I have, don't have to work onpodcasty things.
(37:15):
I don't have to work on likehobby things, extra yard work.
I don't put anything on my platethat day whatsoever.
It's just stay at home momduring the day.
Andrew comes home and hang outnight.
Like he doesn't work on itnight.
Jordan (37:28):
Yeah.
lindsay (37:28):
At home.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Or go out on a date if I have.
Yeah.
Something.
But like that, he, he knows thatthat's like the day too, that he
doesn't have to work on anythingextra.
No yard work on that day.
No like, you know, extrabusiness y stuff, nothing.
We just leave that day opencompletely.
And now I don't have to text youon a Friday night.
(37:49):
You don't have to likenecessarily talk about it, like
schedule it in, but we just bothknow like.
But that is your schedule.
That's
Jordan (37:55):
if your schedule repeats week after week, making one like
chunk of time from you Fridayevening, your time to connect
with your partner physically orotherwise.
And for a lot of people,physical is like a huge
component.
That's perfect.
And that is absolutely what I'mtalking about when I say a
schedule of sex.
Um, for, for Adrian and I are,my, I still, I'm still a server.
(38:17):
You guys, I'm still working in arestaurant.
My schedule's
lindsay (38:20):
crazy.
Yeah, she's down during thenight.
Yeah, you guys have that parentlife where like you're switching
off.
Totally.
He's at work during the day, youguys, he comes home, you switch
off, you go out, you're off towork, so your schedule is really
tight.
It's
Jordan (38:33):
tight and it changes week by week, so, so what
Lindsay, what works for her andAndrew is not gonna work with me
and Adrian.
We'd get like one Friday night amonth then, if we're lucky.
So what I can do is sit downwith him, you know, at the start
of you can do it on a Sunday,you can do it on a Monday.
Whenever your week feels likeit's starting or ending, you can
look forward and say, Okay, thisis the time that we have.
(38:54):
To dedicate to each other thisweek and, this is an idea that I
got from, this awesome coupleon, on Instagram.
Actually, Lindsay shared with melike a year ago and I, they're
always at the top of my feed.
I'm obsessed with these guys.
They're so good.
Yeah.
Vanessa and Xander Marin.
Shout out.
Yes.
Killing it out there.
Um, they.
(39:16):
scheduling sex because it, likeI said, helps to make your
partner feel like a priority.
Um, you can pretend like you'redating and make it super fun and
something that I really likedthat she recommends with this
process is that it doesn't haveto be sex that you're
scheduling.
So when I came to Adrian, yeah,when I came to Adrian with this
idea, He was so put off.
(39:37):
It's like this.
I don't want to schedule sex.
That's weird Like it's weird.
It creates this expectation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What if you're not feeling it,you know, like it's important
Also to be able to say no inyour relationship and be like
this this just feels like areally weird way to initiate
It's like okay.
Well, it's five o'clock onTuesday So it's like yeah, you
know go take our clothes off andstuff like not at all No, no,
(40:00):
but something I really likedthat she recommends is that It
doesn't have to be like sexspecifically that you're
scheduling.
It can be any kind of physicalintimacy, something that's going
to bring you closer physically.
So it could be massages, itcould be like a certain amount
of time of kissing and you caneven make it like, don't take
yourself seriously here.
Like play around with yourpartner, make it playful, make
(40:21):
it fun.
Joke about it.
It'll feel so much moreapproachable.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
So Vanessa said she recommendscoming up with like a bare
minimum activity that you canagree on beforehand so that when
that time comes, you're like,okay, well at least we can kiss
for like, you know, 30 secondsor we can exchange massages for
like three minutes each.
It doesn't have to be anythinglike huge.
(40:42):
It doesn't have to take up a tonof your time.
Yeah.
And then, you know, like onceyou get into that, into the role
of that, like maybe.
Maybe one thing leads toanother, and suddenly you're
having just that little bit moresex
lindsay (40:55):
than you were before.
It totally might lead on.
It might lead.
It might lead on to like more.
Yeah.
Lead on to more than just likethat three minute like hand
massage.
Absolutely.
It sets,
Jordan (41:08):
it gives, it gives you both the invitation and the
space.
Yes.
To let it become something more.
Yes.
If you want it to be in thatmoment, because that's what
we're not getting as parents isthat opportunity and that little
bit of space and that's what wehad at the beginning of our
relationships.
Oh, it's what we had in spades.
We had so much time for ourpartners, you know, like without
(41:29):
a kid running around meals totry and come up with without
groceries to go and buy and likea house to maintain.
Yeah, that
lindsay (41:37):
was, it's almost like the piece of the pie.
That was the piece of the pie.
Yeah.
Before kids was like, there wasa big piece there, like your
partner.
Yeah.
And then it literally got the,when the moment you had a child,
that child took over that bigpiece of the pie.
Yup.
Jordan (41:51):
Absolutely.
The kid is like, is the pie.
lindsay (41:56):
Everything revolves around the kid.
And
Jordan (41:58):
there's, I love my baby.
There is nothing, nothing thatis less, uh, sexually intriguing
than being around a screamingkid all day.
Like.
Well, I mean, that's probably agood thing that we're programmed
that way, but it's not great forthe sex life.
So my hot take this week is ifyou want to be showing your
(42:22):
partner that you prioritize, youknow, that your sexual or
physical intimacy is importantto you, just try scheduling sex.
Just try it.
lindsay (42:33):
See what happens.
Give it a shot.
Yeah.
One, however many times you wantto try it.
I was about to say once a week,but no, it doesn't, that's what
works for us.
Like, yeah, that's great.
I mean, there's also like theweekends that we've been home
and like, you know, there's naptime, obviously.
Sure.
Yeah.
Jordan (42:52):
Fingers crossed for nap time.
Yeah.
Or all the reasons.
Not just for sex.
Yeah.
Um, yes.
So yeah.
And that's another thing to keepin mind.
Your partner, you and yourpartner may not have like this,
You may not want the same amountof sex and that's okay.
I think this is a season to beabsolutely like Um, give
yourself so much grace and giveyour partner so much grace and
(43:15):
just try to meet in the middleas much as you can.
I think any amount of effort andcommunication around this is
going to make a difference.
If you want to have sex once amonth or once every three months
or once a day, if you'reabsolutely wild and that's your
thing, go for it.
I love that for you.
Um, so yeah, try and figure outwhat will really work for you
and your partner.
(43:36):
Make it a bare minimum thing andpop it in that calendar.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Go for it.
Go for it.
All right.
So that's, that's my whole spielfor this week.
Yeah.
I hope it works for you.
Fun new topic.
lindsay (43:48):
Yeah.
Jordan (43:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Fun new topic.
All right.
Well, we're getting kind ofpushing the time here.
Yeah.
So we should start to getwrapping up.
Yes.
So, yeah.
lindsay (43:56):
Take it.
Yeah.
We're going to recommendsomething crazy and fun, random,
every single Or boring.
Yeah.
If you're like, uh, I don't wantanything to do with that
product.
Then you just end your episodeearly.
So, yeah.
Each episode, something random,something crazy, something fun
that we're doing at home.
(44:17):
Reading,
Jordan (44:17):
watching, listening to, playing with, observing.
lindsay (44:22):
something that is popular out there in the mom
world or parent world.
I would, I'll just reiterateparent world.
Yes.
There's some families that don'thave mamas.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
so something out there that'scrazy in the parent world right
now, everybody's talking aboutit.
Jordan (44:37):
Everybody.
You guys, you've been talkingabout this.
I know you've been talking aboutthis.
lindsay (44:43):
You can't stop.
Even if you're not a parent.
You've probably
Jordan (44:47):
been talking about this.
All the kids.
We're talking about this.
lindsay (44:53):
Well I know my daughter would be because she's obsessed
with me using it.
We have the Bissell CrosswavePepro All In One Wet Dry Vacuum
Cleaner and Mop.
Woo!
Jordan (45:07):
Do you know what that is?
I, okay, I've seen it.
Lindsay sent me a one minutevideo.
A full minute video of her usingthis vacuum on her floor.
lindsay (45:19):
A mom minute is a long time.
Yeah, this thing is a mopvacuum.
Wrap your heads around that, howawesome that is.
You don't have to vacuum andthen like mop the floors later,
but this thing does it all atonce.
And it's incredible.
All the moms are freaking out onsocial media about this.
(45:40):
I know I need it.
I have a dog.
I have a child.
There's leaves everywhere in myhouse.
It's
Jordan (45:44):
raining today.
It's raining today.
The floors are muddy.
lindsay (45:46):
Yeah.
It's insane.
This thing is awesome hardsurface floors or a rug, where
you can have, yeah, itliterally, I'm sure it works on
carpet, I don't know, we don'thave carpet, we just have rugs
and hard, hard floors in ourhome.
You put the cleaning solution inthere.
I personally use vinegar anddish soap and water because I
don't like the smell of theharsh chemicals.
(46:08):
Oh, I don't know.
That's my personal preference,but put it in and you hit go and
this thing literally like shootsout the cleanings of stuff and
vacuums at the same time andit's just incredible and then
it's easier than sweeping.
Yes,
Jordan (46:23):
it's like easier than sweeping the floor.
lindsay (46:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And I don't have to get on thefloor and like mop up anything.
I, it just does it.
And then it's self cleans at theend.
Best part.
Yeah.
Best part is you hook it up tothis little like station, you
pour hot water in the station,you hit the on button and it
vacuums up the hot water andcleans the whole fucking thing.
It's insane.
(46:45):
I absolutely love using it.
I use it two to three times aweek.
Jordan (46:50):
Yeah, and your floors look incredible.
Yeah.
They're so
lindsay (46:53):
shiny.
Yeah, I mean, and it goes sofast.
It's I it's literally under 15minutes to do my whole house.
Yeah, that's how fast it isbecause I'm getting it all done
at once.
Yeah,
Jordan (47:04):
think of all the time you could save out there
parents.
lindsay (47:07):
It's worth every dollar.
It's spendy out there.
I think, you know, there'sobviously like Black Friday or
their sales all the time, butIt's worth every dollar.
Yeah, for
Jordan (47:16):
sure.
I'll have to check it out.
Yeah.
I keep telling her to bring itover.
I think she's, oh yeah, Ishould.
Yeah,
lindsay (47:21):
you should.
I'll bring it over next time.
But you can do it.
Jordan (47:24):
Check it out.
Test it on the carpet.
Yes.
Well, yes.
Uh, hang tight.
We'll get back to you on thecarpet.
Yeah.
Just sit there on the edge ofyour seat till.
lindsay (47:34):
Can't wait to hear about the wet dry vacuum
Jordan (47:37):
from Bissell.
Awesome.
Well, that's it everybody.
Yeah.
That's all we've got for youtoday.
I hope you enjoyed hearing aboutsex and DMR, two very disparate
topics.
When you're a mom, you got to gofrom one thing to the next.
So there you go.
lindsay (47:51):
Random is awesome.
Keep it random.
We have kids.
We have
Jordan (47:56):
kids.
And that's us.
Peace out.
Bye.
lindsay (47:58):
Bye.
It's really hard to um, just go hang out and like, we're
(00:04):
literally hanging out over naptime right now.
Jordan (00:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
My kid's asleep
lindsay (00:07):
upstairs.
So we find like these likemoments where like, can you
walk?
I can go on a walk, you know,like we don't live too far from
each other.
So we're like, okay, let's do,let's do a walk quick and just.
Get a fix of Like another humanthat can relate to what you're
going through.
Absolutely.
I
Jordan (00:22):
see you taking like a big inhale to take a sigh, And
we're on.
Oh, hi.
Hey.
Yeah.
lindsay (00:39):
Hello.
This is so exciting.
Yeah,
Jordan (00:41):
super exciting.
OK.
All right, let's get into it.
I'm Jordan.
I've already said, um.
Stop.
lindsay (00:50):
I'm just kidding.
I'm Jordan.
I'm Lindsay.
Lindsay.
With May.
Jordan (00:57):
And, uh, welcome.
This is the We Have Kidspodcast.
lindsay (01:02):
They are officially mind blown moms.
We are.
First time moms that must starta podcast about all the things.
Too
Jordan (01:10):
much to talk about.
Not to.
lindsay (01:11):
Yeah.
I think our topic list is Over athousand.
Yeah.
Of things.
Yeah.
So,
Jordan (01:17):
uh, kick back.
Yes.
I hope you got some time and acouple of kids to follow along
with us.
Yeah.
Alright.
Yeah.
So, tell us about yourself,Lindsay.
lindsay (01:27):
We're gonna do a little intro here.
Yeah.
I am Lindsay I am a mother of a11 month old daughter.
She's my first born and I am aMinnesota, Utah.
I moved, I'm a transplant toUtah.
Lost my Minnesota accent.
A little bit.
A little bit, yeah.
I do get Same bag.
Yeah.
(01:48):
It's big Yeah.
I didn't realize I said thatword every day until I moved
here.
Yep.
You say it all the time.
And then immediately got teasedevery single day.
So yeah.
Now in Utah.
Love it.
Family and friends still backhome.
Still love Minnesota for all thecertain seasons.
If you're from Minnesota, youknow those seasons.
(02:08):
And then.
Yeah, if you, just to shorten itup about my little personality,
I am a fear of the unknown,anxious, insomniac.
I only have to have those wordsfor you to understand who
exactly I am.
Especially if you're a mom.
Um, fear of the unknown.
Yeah, that's gonna, it reallyset me up for a first time
(02:32):
child.
I think I get that from workingin healthcare.
I've been in healthcare for 13years ish, going on 14.
I work in the operating room,not so much, uh, since my
daughter was born.
I took a hiatus from thehealthcare world.
I actually came back a littlebit after COVID.
If you know, you know, yeah,I've been a stay at home mom
(02:55):
with, my daughter, it's beengreat and tough and exhausting
all at the same time.
It's wonderful, beautiful,exhausting thing.
So fear of the unknown.
Yes.
Uh, all the first.
All the firsts of everythingleaves me incredibly anxious.
I like to know what I'm doing inorder to just feel conquered and
(03:16):
get through it.
But all the lessons have comeand then anxious.
Yeah, you can call me anxious.
If I didn't have like sixbottles ready for her in the
fridge at all times, I wasfreaking out.
It's tough.
and then obviously after a fewmonths of that, anxiety, um, had
to kick, just kind of chill outa little bit.
(03:37):
and then insomniac.
Yeah, I'm a light sleeper.
I, I, I'm going to say it comesfrom my health care days working
on call in the middle of thenight, waiting for that phone to
go off.
I've always been a really lightsleeper and then dealt with
insomniac when I was pregnant.
first big first trimestersymptoms I had, and then that
just literally never went away.
(03:58):
So I do all the nighttime thingssometimes, uh, Jordan and I will
do a little Marco Polo videos.
Yes.
She'll open up my, my Marco Poloand it's like red light, orange
glasses late at night, likesettling in for bedtime.
I do all the sleep rituals sothat I don't deal with insomnia.
(04:23):
Uh, it's tough.
I pretty much have to do, do itin order not to get it, through
the night.
So that's me healthcare, 13years.
I've been a server for 20.
It got me through college andafterwards, great part time gig.
Started in a mom pop cafe, smalltown in Minnesota.
Then on to supper clubs, if youdon't know what those are.
(04:45):
Those are like a big dinnerclub.
Steak and beans and potatoes.
A big ol supper club.
I've never heard of that.
And then on to a European.
Fine Dining, which opened myworld for the passion of cooking
and learning all about raisinganimals and everything.
So I've been in Forbes FineDining since,, gosh, probably
(05:09):
the last 10 years.
And then, yeah.
I know all the things I know.
I know all the things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've seen it all done at allpretty much in the restaurants.
Yeah.
If you have any questions in thefuture, you just ask away about
restaurant life.
We go.
Yeah.
So that's pretty much about
Jordan (05:27):
me.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
Well, that's an easy segue.
I met Lindsay in one of thoserestaurants.
Yes.
lindsay (05:33):
That's why we're here.
God,
Jordan (05:34):
how many
lindsay (05:35):
years ago?
What was that?
2000, I mean, I started there in20, 2018, I think.
What?
You did?
Yeah.
So I'm pushing like seven ishyears, but I, I worked in the
fine dining restaurant.
You were in kind of the morecash restaurant.
Yeah.
So I probably knew of you.
(05:55):
Yeah, but I worked a few
Jordan (05:56):
shifts down there.
Yeah, that's so I remember.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I remember the very first shiftI worked with you.
Oh, I was, yeah.
I was like a server and I think,I don't know if you were my back
waiter, if you were someoneelse, er in for somebody.
I was.
I'm, I've been at this placethat we work for like an
embarrassingly long time.
I've been a server, I've beenworking in that restaurant since
(06:16):
2000.
This is gonna shock everyone.
2007.
Woo.
Yeah.
I started as a little hostess,and it was just a part time
second job.
Yeah, I was.
Thanks for aging me.
lindsay (06:33):
If anyone's aged, I was out of high school in 2007.
Um,
Jordan (06:38):
yeah, so I started there in 2007 as a hostess, kind of
just moved up to a servingposition, and had kind of a wild
ride of adult life, so I, Istayed there.
It worked out with me along.
Some crazy journeys, uh, whichwe can get tuned in a second.
But yeah, that first shift Iworked with you.
I remember Talking to you at theend of the shift.
(07:00):
I specifically remember you weretalking about because I was in
nursing school at the time Oh,yeah, so I was also sort of
dipping my toe into health careand we were talking about how
Lindsay was a surgical Surgicalassistant.
Yes, and she was telling me thatUs if you smoke Cutting into
your skin feels like cuttinginto the skin of like an old
(07:21):
banana.
Oh yeah! And I was like, that's
lindsay (07:24):
so cool.
Yes, yes, yes.
This girl's rad.
A very ripe banana is eithersomeone that's, you know, maybe
elderly, they've lost somecollagen in their skin, or
chronic smoker, or someone thatjust doesn't drink water, or
drinks too much alcohol maybe intheir life.
Go
Jordan (07:44):
have some water, everyone.
Yeah, we have 40 ounces rightnext to us ready to go.
That's great.
Yeah.
That's cool.
Yeah.
That's what I remember.
Um, yeah, and we've kind of beenpretty good friends ever since,
but I would say that ourfriendship definitely leveled up
when we decided we were ready toprocreate.
Yes.
(08:04):
Yes.
Yeah.
lindsay (08:04):
Yeah.
That was so funny.
So you're married.
I'm recently married.
We were, I don't know what madeus talk about having families,
but I probably asked you, areyou guys going to, you know,
have kids someday?
Because your life is just wildand traveling and all over the
place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You and your husband's.
And I recall our, one of ourgreat late, uh, co workers, you
(08:26):
were pregnant and I gotpregnant, like probably not too
long afterwards.
And he's like, are you pregnant?
Cause Jordan's pregnant.
Oh, you're so sweet.
I'm definitely not planning myentire life just because one of
my great.
Great friends at work is likepregnant.
So that was really, and he justmeant it absolutely genuinely.
(08:46):
And like, it was so sweet.
I'll always remember him by thatcomment.
Plus that
Jordan (08:50):
heart.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so good.
No, we didn't plan our livesaround each other, but it's
worked out really nicely for us.
Yeah.
So me and my husband, Lindsayjust said she's recently
married.
We're, uh, we got married in2017.
I met him, the same way I've meteveryone in my entire adult
life, which is through the placeI work.
(09:11):
It's a ski resort, and, yeah,it's been a great place for
meeting tons and tons of newpeople.
Um, I served him.
He was in town filming one ofour really good friends, um, who
was a pretty prolific iceclimber.
He, my husband did, like,adventure film work back in the
day, right?
Love hearing about the stories.
Yes, and I'm like a huge rockclimber, and he was a huge rock
(09:32):
climber, so we hit it offimmediately, had tons to talk
about.
He was in town, he is actuallyfrom the UK, so he was only in
town for like a week.
We hung out a couple of times,we really liked each other, and
I was, again, I was in nursingschool at the time, and I
remember that During theupcoming semester break, I was
planning a trip to Europe.
So I told Adrian, hey, I'm goingto Europe.
(09:52):
Should we hang out?
And he invited me to stay withhim in England.
We went on a climbing trip toSpain together.
And then had basically like,I'll give you the super
condensed version.
Like three to four years ofcrazy long distance.
visa trouble riddledRelationship after we got
(10:14):
married it took us three yearsto get his visa to live in the
US So we spent time I lived inthe UK for a little bit We did a
lot of traveling together forwork.
I kind of helped him with hisfilm making journey for a little
while there and Yeah, weeventually landed in British
Columbia for a little whilewhile we waited for his visa to
go through.
And then finally in 2020, aftera very rough COVID period for
(10:38):
us, living in differentcountries, that was insane.
Um, Yeah, he finally made itback and we landed here in
lindsay (10:44):
Utah.
I remember, our resort closeddown for COVID.
Yeah, that was crazy.
And you were like, I'm bookingit to Canada.
I had to hustle.
Yeah, cause he was in Canada atthe time.
Yeah, that was.
And you, you drove probably asfast as
Jordan (10:58):
possible.
Oh, I absolutely.
So that was
lindsay (11:01):
crazy.
Yeah.
The border was like, we'reclosing.
About to shut.
Like the clock is ticking.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you were trying to raceagainst the clock and you, I'll
never forget the day, like you.
Either called me or you text meand you like pulled over the
moment you got past the board.
(11:22):
Yeah, so happy could not keep ittogether it gives me goosebumps
just thinking about it
Jordan (11:26):
what a crazy crazy Yeah, so glad I'm so glad that's over.
Who else is glad it's over.
lindsay (11:31):
Yeah Yeah, your story is like storybook worthy for
sure.
Jordan (11:35):
Yeah, maybe we can
go
lindsay (11:37):
into greater adventures Yeah.
I met my husband and anothercommon way that people meet is
on Tinder.
We work with younger folks.
Yeah.
These, uh, and it sounds likeTinder is just like kind of a
nightmare right now.
I don't know if it is or not,but like, it just sounds
Jordan (11:53):
like.
No, I'm very, very grateful tohave never had to get my
lindsay (11:56):
tongue into that.
I met my husband through Tinderin the beginning days of Tinder.
I think I was on it for fivedays.
Just wasn't meeting guys, like,I was very social, just wasn't
meeting somebody that was,filling up my cup.
And I met him, he was in Maui atthe time.
I was back in the Midwest, andwe talked for a few months.
I met his mom before I met him.
(12:19):
He aligned a nice littlebreakfast for us.
Jordan (12:22):
Everyone's dream.
Yeah.
lindsay (12:23):
Yeah.
Yes.
He's like, I need to really makesure she does not have a penis.
No, um, he, yeah, he lined up anice little breakfast and
actually had a really fantastictime with her.
And then I flew out to Mauiafter a few months of talking,
hung out with him out there forten ish days, I think, and it
(12:45):
went great, had a great time.
And then he came back to themainland that spring and started
his job search.
He was going to school onlineand finally graduated, job
searched, and that's whatbrought us out to Utah is we
were looking in areas of thecountry where we really like to,
like, we're big hunters andfishers and outdoorsy people.
I hike and do all the funoutdoorsy stuff.
(13:05):
So we looked in areas of thecountry where we could do all
that.
And that's where he applied to.
and one of them brought us outto Utah and the rest is history.
Why
Jordan (13:16):
are we here?
Yes.
Great question.
What brings us to thesebeautiful microphones?
Well, as a mom or even a parent,I guess we can kind of like
expand that to everybody.
I think that everyone has hadthe experience of.
Well, a couple of differentexperiences, right?
So my experience of podcastingin parenthood is.
(13:37):
It gives me, uh, an outlet,something to listen to while I'm
endlessly folding laundry.
Yes.
Yes.
Or driving around runningerrands, like there's always
lindsay (13:47):
something nice.
Finding somebody you can relateto.
Absolutely.
Outside of your home.
Yeah.
Jordan (13:52):
Yeah.
There's a lot to, there's a biglearning curve when it comes to
parenting.
lindsay (13:56):
Yeah.
I think that I would say thatwe're mind blown by, I think I
mentioned that already, butwe're absolutely mind blown by
all the first.
Yeah.
Things.
Yeah,
Jordan (14:04):
you can't prepare for it.
No.
You totally can't
lindsay (14:07):
prepare for it.
What the hell?
No way.
Like what, what just happened toour lives?
And it's been really nice, likeour, our kids are a few months
apart and uh, it's been awonderful journey.
Like doing it together or, youknow, kind of essentially doing
it together and following alongand learning from Jordan and
going through all the thingsshe's gone through.
But yeah, also experiencing iton my own too and it being vast,
(14:30):
like completely different.
So different.
Yeah.
And so it's been great to, justvent to each other and ask each
other and like, what the hell,like all the things.
And also like we come acrossthese new things we're learning
about.
Hey, did you learn about this orcheck this out or this could
help or
Jordan (14:46):
whatever.
Yeah, absolutely.
Bouncing ideas off, sharinglearning resources, asking how
things went for you.
lindsay (14:53):
It's really hard to um, just go hang out and like, we're
literally hanging out over naptime right now.
Jordan (14:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
My kid's asleep
lindsay (15:01):
upstairs.
So we find like these likemoments where like, can you
walk?
I can go on a walk, you know,like we don't live too far from
each other.
So we're like, okay, let's do,let's do a walk quick and just.
Get a fix of Like another humanthat can relate to what you're
going through.
Absolutely.
I
Jordan (15:15):
see you taking like a big inhale to take a sigh, get a
fix of just that offloading,offloading of all of that mom
energy or parent energy that youjust like carry with you all day
long.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're hoping to kind of just beable to be that for you guys.
lindsay (15:31):
Yeah.
Listen in there's, there's like,we've done tons, we've listened
to tons of podcasts aboutparenting and there's tons out
there for like researchingcertain topics.
If you're wondering aboutsomething.
It's specific, you can go findit, but this is kind of just
more of like a hangout mom seshtoo.
I have found myself likelistening to, if I need to learn
about a topic, okay, I go intothe podcast and I'll go, I'll
(15:54):
search the episode.
And I'll zone out halfwaythrough it because I'm just
like, my brain literally justcan't acknowledge what all the
research, I just need to hangout with like, I just needed
like too much data.
Yeah.
I just need to like hang out andtalk to my mom.
So that's what we're
Jordan (16:11):
doing.
Yeah.
We're not data analysts just forthe record.
Yes.
lindsay (16:14):
That's not our fun topics of things we've gone
through or things we want totalk about or things that are
approaching, but yeah, we'velike been through
Jordan (16:23):
some, some shit.
Yeah.
We've experienced some stuff.
It's probably different to whatyou've experienced, but I'm sure
that there's something if youhave a kid Anywhere nearby you.
Mm hmm.
We'll probably be talking aboutsomething you kind of can
understand.
Mm hmm.
lindsay (16:38):
Yeah Yeah on mom level.
Jordan (16:41):
Yes on mom on the deepest
lindsay (16:46):
Deepest mom love.
But very superficial researchedlevel.
Yeah, yeah,
Jordan (16:51):
yeah, yeah.
Superficially researched deepmom shit.
This is us.
Yeah.
So welcome to our podcast.
Yeah, let's go.
We have kids.
lindsay (16:59):
That's all.
That's all you need to know.
Jordan (17:05):
Great, so each episode we have something that we, that
one of us has looked into.
Mm hmm.
Um, whether that's a little bitsuperficially, maybe we're
digging in and doing like alittle bit more research.
But yeah, just something we canbring to the table and talk
about that maybe, maybe itdoesn't get talked about enough,
or maybe we talk about it waytoo much, but we can't help
ourselves.
(17:26):
Yes.
Maybe it's a burning questionthat we've had somewhere along
the way.
And we think that someone outthere could benefit from hearing
what we've gone through orhearing what we, yeah, have
learned.
So this week.
Lindsay's going to tell us alittle bit about something
lindsay (17:41):
that she experienced.
When we were talking abouttopics to start with, this one
has my heart because I wentthrough it quite, I went through
quite the ringer, if you will,uh, going through this.
It's called Deemer.
We're going to talk aboutDeemer.
Yeah.
Something I don't know muchabout.
Yeah.
She didn't, uh, Jordan didn'texperience Deemer.
(18:01):
Tell us all about it.
A lot of, I'll, I'll mention, Ifound this out through, I, I
joined like a mom's first timemom's Facebook group, which had
its, has its ups and downs.
Um, and I, yeah, yeah, yeah, itgets a little, there's some, you
know, there's some anxious momsout there, but.
Um, it's a good resource if you,if you have questions and, and
(18:24):
need just community.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everybody needs
Jordan (18:27):
that.
As moms, especially you gottahave that.
So I
lindsay (18:30):
threw in the question, Hey, what do you guys, what, if
you guys are all like breastfedor pumped and you have these
symptoms only during thesetimes.
What, like, can I hear from you?
And one of the moms was like,you have DMER.
Absolutely.
And I had never heard of thisterm.
It's D M E R.
(18:50):
Yep.
Acronym for dysphoric milkejection reflux.
which obviously is a very hardterm to remember.
Yeah.
So tell us about, tell us aboutthat person.
It's fascinating.
Um, it's, it's not somethingthat happens throughout the
entire postpartum phase.
It's only happening during afast letdown, breastfeeding has
(19:13):
more intense symptoms thanpumping due to the oxytocin.
Release it's
Jordan (19:19):
because of the oxytocin.
Yeah, that's wild.
I thought that there was like alack of Oxytocin
lindsay (19:24):
or something.
No, so that's kind of whattriggers the dopamine to release
from your brain and Demer isFrom dopamine dropping too fast.
Oh, wow.
So my dopamine rate wasabsolutely Astronomically too
fast.
I would I could literally feelit just like wiping my brain
(19:44):
empty That's wild
Jordan (19:45):
and you would think like somebody who hasn't experienced
this Yeah might be listening toLindsay and thinking that that
sounds like kind of euphoric.
Yes However, uh, but yeah,
lindsay (19:58):
yeah, the very opposite of euphoric.
It's a very intense feeling.
I've actually videoed myselflike going through it just just
because it was like, I gotta seewhat like I actually look like
physically going through this.
Can you tell
Jordan (20:09):
us about like, yeah, what the Yes.
Get really into like the actual,yeah, just
lindsay (20:14):
experience.
So I would, um, start abreastfeed session and, takes
about few, a good few minutes,obviously everybody's very
different, but their milk letdown can happen anywhere between
three to 10 minutes.
It's like you somewhere inthere, 10 minutes is obviously
on the longer end of it, butwithin a few minutes I would
have a milk let down.
(20:35):
Um, which was also too fast formy daughter, uh, she struggled
with that, but I would feelsymptoms of intense negativity,
sadness, it would almost feellike a haze.
If you will.
It felt like my brain was likethe darkest, grayest cloud, very
heavy.
(20:55):
And that was happening during myletdown.
And what happens with that isall your dopamine has left your
brain.
And you have no more feeling oflike, you know, happiness or
anything, everyone kind of tellsyou this breastfeeding game is a
journey.
It's so beautiful.
You connecting your bonding.
And I was not having any of thatfeeling going on.
It was literally somethingchemically going on in my brain.
(21:17):
And so what got me through that,and I'll, I'll know that this as
researched and it's not, um,related to postpartum
depression, you can havepostpartum depression.
You can have postpartum anxiety.
I had PPA, but, um, DEMUR issomething like separated from
that.
(21:38):
I looked this up, I went nuts, Ilike asked this mom group friend
on Facebook, they said DEMUR,check it out.
Went online, found a ton ofinformation on it, about it.
Not a lot of people knew aboutit.
I mean, I would go to mytherapist, I'd tell my fertility
acupuncturist, I'd tell myfriends, I'd tell my sister, I
would tell my mom, like nobodyheard about this.
(21:58):
It all experienced, you know, mysister experienced it incredibly
and she had no idea it had aname to it.
So anyways, your dopamine isemptied from your brain at a
fast rate, and that's what canbring on these symptoms of like,
heavy brain, if you will.
Jordan (22:13):
Yeah, like doom, I think is the word that you used when
you told me about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sounded terrifying.
Absolutely doomed.
And it's especially terrifyingbecause it's at a time that you,
like you said, is supposed to beso beautiful and like you're
connecting.
So to feel something that islike totally the opposite of
that must have been sodisorienting.
Yes,
lindsay (22:33):
it was because I It was feeding my child,
Jordan (22:36):
which is also by the way, something that you need to
do one way or another.
Yes.
lindsay (22:41):
Like how am I going to get through this over and over
and over and over.
And so this also happens foreach milk letdown.
She'd switch onto the next sideand it happened again for the
next letdown.
So how long did it last?
So, yeah, so it only lasts a fewminutes because you're waiting
for that dopamine to fill up inyour brain again.
It can take anywhere between.
I think, like I mentioned, kindof similar to like a letdown,
(23:02):
like three to ten minutes.
There's no like standard, um,But
Jordan (23:05):
it goes away pretty quickly after it's finished
lindsay (23:08):
feeding.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
I would set a timer on my phonefor five minutes just so that I
could feel better that it wasnot going to last more than
that.
I felt like it
Jordan (23:17):
was to remind yourself that it was
lindsay (23:19):
temporary.
Yeah, to remind myself it wastemporary.
And I think that's what, like,helped me continue
breastfeeding.
I wanted to continue.
I wasn't feeling too awful inthe moments of doing it, but It
did get to a point where it justwas not happening because my
letdown was so fast for mydaughter.
(23:39):
And so then I started pumping.
Were
Jordan (23:41):
you experiencing Demer from like the moment you started
breastfeeding in the hospital?
No, I
lindsay (23:45):
don't remember.
I do not remember those feelingsat the hospital at all.
So when would you, I wouldprobably say with like it
started.
So she had some latching issues.
We went, we worked withlactation consultants within the
first month of her and thenprobably, Shortly after that, it
started kicking in and I don'tknow if that was like my body's
(24:05):
like hormones changing Afterpregnancy and after giving birth
and all that and so it wasprobably like a month to four
months We had a big vacationthree months after she was born
and I exclusively pumped fromthat point on I remember trying
to breastfeed once coming backfrom that and it wasn't just the
demer was so intense and I waslike Alright, I'm done.
(24:27):
Yeah, so then I started pumpingand pumping with demer It's a
little different.
You don't have such a oxytocinrelease because you're not
bonding with your baby You'rekind of separated from that and
so I would say like myexperience from pumping with
Deemer was extreme nauseous.
I didn't have like the doom thatyou mentioned.
I didn't have like that feelingof doom I didn't have like the
(24:48):
haze didn't have like the theheavy like dark cloud in my
mind.
It was just more extremenauseous I felt like I could
throw up Across the room everysingle time I put that pump on
it.
Yeah,
Jordan (25:00):
and if you've ever pumped before you know that it's
fun enough Without feelingabsolutely nauseated.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was a whole
lindsay (25:08):
trip.
So that was my personalexperience with Deemer so just
Yeah, just to go on and on aboutit.
It's not necessarily somethingevery mom goes through.
It's not something that everymom will go through for each
child that she has.
I have talked with other peoplethat have had DEMUR for their
first baby and didn't have itfor their second baby.
Did your sister have it for her?
She exclusively pumped hersecond child, and I don't recall
(25:33):
her telling me she was nauseous.
Alright, interesting.
So, yeah, so I'm hopeful that Inever have to go through
something like that again.
Yeah, fingers crossed.
But at least I know, like, if Ido, you know, it's gonna be
okay, and I'll just get throughit and figure it out.
So yeah, not every single momgoes through something like
this, and I think that'sprobably why it's not discussed.
I mean, I was pretty, I waspretty bummed that my lactation
(25:54):
consultants in the hospital, Ihad my child in the hospital, I
had visits from the lactationconsultants there, I had a visit
after I left the hospital, likea week after being home, and I
was pretty bummed that They giveyou so much information and it
almost goes right over yourhead.
Yeah.
Jordan (26:13):
Especially after you've just gone through labor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
lindsay (26:16):
yeah.
Yeah.
They, I mean, they load you upwith all the information they
possibly can, which is wonderfuland great.
It's a great resource, but I waskind of bummed that my lactation
consultants didn't come frontand say, Hey, you're going to,
you might feel this with yourbaby.
I just wish there was more focuson like
Jordan (26:32):
that.
I wonder what percentage ofwomen do experience something
like this.
It's gotta be, I mean, I, my, mygut is telling me it's gotta be
low, but again, that's becausenobody's talking about it.
And it could be something like,there's a, there's really a lot
of like shame for some reasonaround breastfeeding and feeding
(26:53):
your children.
Like, this is a huge thing thatso many women.
Face, like if they for somereason can't breastfeed and they
have to formula feed or pump andfeed, which by the way is
breastfeeding.
And I think that that likelittle bit of shame, like if
things aren't going perfectlywell, just feeling like you're
not doing a good enough job as amom.
Oh yeah.
We'll keep people from talkingabout
lindsay (27:14):
the negative experiences they have.
And if you go through somethinglike this, you're just going to
be like, it must just be part oflike, yeah, something's wrong
with me.
You can't tell people aboutthat.
Yeah, and it must just be some,a side effect or a symptom of,
excuse me, a symptom ofpostpartum depression or
something that.
Yeah.
Jordan (27:30):
If you've experienced anything like this, talk about
it.
Yeah.
Please talk about it.
It helps so much to know thatyou're not alone.
lindsay (27:37):
Yeah.
There's some resources that I'mgoing to post here.
Um, I went to deemer.
org.
Um, I went to Cleveland Clinic,uh, Medela, our famous, like,
hand pump that everybody loves.
They have a great article aboutit.
But, um, one of my researches,it was like, it was really low.
It was like only 5 to 9 percentof people that are lactating.
That's not that
Jordan (27:57):
low.
Yeah, like 5 to 9%?
That's not that low.
That's like enough that weshould have heard about it.
Yeah, you're
lindsay (28:04):
right.
I feel like we never hear aboutanything when it's under 20%.
Weird.
Don't you?
Like, I don't know.
Like, what is the actualpercentage that makes it
something significant when allof it is significant to talk
about?
Yeah.
Jordan (28:17):
God, great point.
I don't know.
That's wild.
So, if, uh, what advice wouldyou give to somebody who, like,
thinks they might be goingthrough this?
lindsay (28:25):
Obviously, hit up Deemer.
org.
The girl that, um, has thiswebsite.
She has a wonderful PowerPoint.
Like visually showing you whatit may can look like I would go
there I would absolutely get ahold of your lactation
consultancy if they knowanything about it They should I
would hope they do
Jordan (28:43):
and if you don't know where to find a lactation
Consultant if you didn't givebirth in a hospital or if you
didn't see a lactationconsultant in the hospital Your
local hospital should absolutelyhave a resource for you if you
call them.
Oh,
lindsay (28:54):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I would go deemer.
org lactation consultants andjust start researching I love
your type A approach.
Yeah, yes.
Just do
Jordan (29:05):
research.
lindsay (29:06):
Yeah, find it.
Whatever you're going through,you should totally be talking
about it, researching.
Researching your symptoms.
All the things narrow it downfor yourself.
And just another tip I would sayis obviously learning or going
through it and learning from it.
It is not, it is temporary.
Jordan (29:24):
Yeah.
I think that's critical.
What any
lindsay (29:27):
suffering and what is important to is when you, if say
you're listening to this episodeand you are currently
breastfeeding or lactating ingeneral, hearing That is
temporary is probably like youjust want to throw your fist in
the wall like you're in it andyou just don't want to hear it's
temporary because you feel likeit's never going to be.
It's never temporary, but it istemporary.
(29:49):
Here to reassure you promise.
Um, but Hey, and if it, if, ifyou end up having demerits
second round, it's a okay toresort to pumping.
If you don't want to pump, it'sa okay to resort to formula and
just know that like all of it'sokay.
You have to take care ofyourself first.
I am somebody that was just kindof so connected to my child,
(30:12):
like being the force behind allof her food.
Yeah.
For a long time.
Of course you were connected tothat.
And like, that was just like, Ihave to do it, I have to fight
through it, I have to fightthrough it.
And you pumped for
Jordan (30:23):
so long.
Yeah.
How long did you exclusivelypump for?
lindsay (30:27):
I exclusively pumped for six and a half months.
That's insane.
Oh, no, seven and a half.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Seven and a half months.
That's a long time.
So, it is a long time.
Um, yeah.
Yeah, I remember when I wasgoing through it for three
months, exclusively pumping andtalking to you about it.
You're like, you've done it forso long.
Like you were such a goodcheerleader.
(30:48):
Just even know that like threemonths of pumping is a long time
and it's
Jordan (30:52):
three weeks, three minutes of pumping.
It feels like a long, long time.
I didn't have this experienceobviously that Lindsay had.
Um, my breastfeeding journeywas.
Privileged, but I, I mean, I ama full time working mom, so I do
pump at work and I did have thatexperience and I've cleaned a
(31:14):
fair share of pump parts.
And I'm here to say that I neverwant to do it again.
So my hat was off to Lindsayfor, for going so long.
Yeah.
And honestly, like, yeah, fromthree months or even sooner,
like I wasn't telling her whatto do by any means, but like
kind of always nudging in like,Hey, if you, Want to switch to
(31:34):
formula.
You can switch to formula.
Yes.
And I think that's somethingthat is so important for us to,
like, there's so much pressureto breastfeed.
Mm hmm.
There's so much pressure tobreastfeed.
lindsay (31:44):
Just the fact that you're, you have food for your
child in your body alone.
Just that fact.
Of
Jordan (31:51):
is pressure is pressure.
Yeah, it's crazy.
So yeah, it's hard for me to saylike, as somebody who didn't
need to, to supplement withformula or to exclusively
formula feed.
It's hard for that to come fromme.
But, uh, yeah, I just saw whatshe was going through and it
didn't feel worth it.
lindsay (32:10):
Yeah, and there really is no treatment for this.
I've kind of dived in and lookedaround and, um, there's really
no treatment, it's just like,get through it.
Yeah, so much of motherhood.
Yeah, yeah, and if you, andlike, for me, that's me saying,
like, just get through itbecause I really just, like, had
to get through it.
But if you don't want to getthrough it, you don't have to
get through it, so, yeah,
Jordan (32:31):
yeah.
Deemer.
Deemer.
I hope that you.
I hope you're not experiencingit.
And if you are experiencing it,I hope you have some resources.
Yeah.
If not, just give us a shoutout.
Email us.
Lindsay will talk to you for aminute.
lindsay (32:48):
I'd love to.
Yeah.
Jordan (32:50):
So, uh, Speaking of oxytocin.
lindsay (32:56):
Yes.
Hormones.
How much,
Jordan (33:00):
how much sex are you having Lindsay?
lindsay (33:04):
Would you say it's
Jordan (33:05):
less?
Would you say it's less thanbefore you
lindsay (33:09):
had your baby?
Jordan (33:10):
It's less?
Yeah.
Okay, yeah.
Cool.
So my experience isn't, isn'tisolated.
Ben.
Yeah.
No.
lindsay (33:17):
If someone's having more sex postpartum,
Jordan (33:22):
please inquire.
Give us a call.
We need
lindsay (33:27):
to know what's happening.
We'd like to figure out why.
Jordan (33:30):
Tell us how you're doing it.
Yeah.
Please.
Uh, yeah, so sex, everybodyknows this.
I'm not coming in hot with newinformation.
People with kids are having lesssex.
Period.
Like, there's just no way.
There's just no way around it.
Your time is constrained.
(33:51):
Your energy it doesn't existanymore.
Right.
Adrian and I, we go to bed atnight.
I mean, and it's like,
lindsay (33:59):
it's hard to even notice.
Like my husband's natural, likepheromones again.
Oh yeah.
You know, like totally thingsthat like has sent that would
turn me on.
Like, I can't, I don't evenlike.
Jordan (34:10):
Your brain is in so many other places.
That's like the last priority.
Yeah, right.
Yes Yes and that's just theproblem like sex becomes a Last
priority for all of us like whenI sit down at the start of the
I'm very goal oriented I have alittle bullet journal.
Um, I like to write down At thestart of the week, everything
(34:31):
that I, that is important to me,I try to prioritize it, I plan
it in, I wrote it into acalendar.
Me and Adrienne have a sharedGoogle calendar that we're very
vehement about updating andkeeping nice and clean and tidy
so that we're all on the samepage about everything.
And
lindsay (34:46):
here's the thing.
It's a whole unit.
Yeah, it's a system.
Andrew and I have the same,like, calendar.
You got to.
You
Jordan (34:52):
got to.
Here's the thing.
If you asked any random parenthow much of a priority their sex
life was in their relationship Ithink you'd get the same answer
for most people.
Yeah.
And that is that it's important.
Yeah.
It's important.
Yeah.
But it's like, when I sit downto my calendar, guess what's not
on it?
I know.
The sex.
(35:14):
Who wants to schedule sex?
You don't want to schedule sex.
Okay, but here's my hot take forthis week.
For this episode, I should say.
Scheduling sex needs to be athing when you're a parent.
If you want to prioritize it,you've got to put it in the
calendar.
Yep.
Even if you're not really acalendar person, I really think
(35:35):
this is super important.
What it tells your partner isthat a, I still am attracted to
you, which for like for mepersonally is something that I
think Adrian would love to hear.
Like, I don't tell him that inany kind of way.
I get home from work at the endof the night and if he comes in
for a hug, I'm like, you betterstep away.
lindsay (35:58):
Get
Jordan (35:59):
those hands ten feet away from me.
Yes.
I'm gonna go take a shower.
Yeah, and you can't come peek at
lindsay (36:06):
me.
Yeah
Jordan (36:11):
Totally I get so touched out, you know, you're so
overstimulated.
Yeah everything.
Yeah, even I mean you're a stayat home mom You're not getting
overstimulated at work like I amnow, but you're definitely
getting overstimulated overtouched.
Absolutely.
Yeah in all the ways.
Yes Um, so yeah, I need to betelling my partner that I, that
I care about him and that Ilike, I, this is something that
(36:32):
I want still, right?
Um, and for me, the only way todo that, the only way to work
that into like the, the thousandother things that I'm trying to
get done this week is to remindmyself that it is enough of a
priority that I want it in thecalendar.
And Yeah, this is a hot takebecause I don't think that a lot
of people like the idea of thatpeople wanna have spontaneous
(36:52):
sex.
lindsay (36:53):
Scheduling sounds like just like the worst.
It's so admin.
Yeah, but here's, here's, like,for instance, what we do, we
have a very busy schedule.
Andrew's got certain things thathe does.
Certain days I have things goingon certain days.
But we, the way to schedule itin is yo, like Fridays, there's
nothing else for us to do.
I have, don't have to work onpodcasty things.
(37:15):
I don't have to work on likehobby things, extra yard work.
I don't put anything on my platethat day whatsoever.
It's just stay at home momduring the day.
Andrew comes home and hang outnight.
Like he doesn't work on itnight.
Jordan (37:28):
Yeah.
lindsay (37:28):
At home.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Or go out on a date if I have.
Yeah.
Something.
But like that, he, he knows thatthat's like the day too, that he
doesn't have to work on anythingextra.
No yard work on that day.
No like, you know, extrabusiness y stuff, nothing.
We just leave that day opencompletely.
And now I don't have to text youon a Friday night.
(37:49):
You don't have to likenecessarily talk about it, like
schedule it in, but we just bothknow like.
But that is your schedule.
That's
Jordan (37:55):
if your schedule repeats week after week, making one like
chunk of time from you Fridayevening, your time to connect
with your partner physically orotherwise.
And for a lot of people,physical is like a huge
component.
That's perfect.
And that is absolutely what I'mtalking about when I say a
schedule of sex.
Um, for, for Adrian and I are,my, I still, I'm still a server.
(38:17):
You guys, I'm still working in arestaurant.
My schedule's
lindsay (38:20):
crazy.
Yeah, she's down during thenight.
Yeah, you guys have that parentlife where like you're switching
off.
Totally.
He's at work during the day, youguys, he comes home, you switch
off, you go out, you're off towork, so your schedule is really
tight.
It's
Jordan (38:33):
tight and it changes week by week, so, so what
Lindsay, what works for her andAndrew is not gonna work with me
and Adrian.
We'd get like one Friday night amonth then, if we're lucky.
So what I can do is sit downwith him, you know, at the start
of you can do it on a Sunday,you can do it on a Monday.
Whenever your week feels likeit's starting or ending, you can
look forward and say, Okay, thisis the time that we have.
(38:54):
To dedicate to each other thisweek and, this is an idea that I
got from, this awesome coupleon, on Instagram.
Actually, Lindsay shared with melike a year ago and I, they're
always at the top of my feed.
I'm obsessed with these guys.
They're so good.
Yeah.
Vanessa and Xander Marin.
Shout out.
Yes.
Killing it out there.
Um, they.
(39:16):
scheduling sex because it, likeI said, helps to make your
partner feel like a priority.
Um, you can pretend like you'redating and make it super fun and
something that I really likedthat she recommends with this
process is that it doesn't haveto be sex that you're
scheduling.
So when I came to Adrian, yeah,when I came to Adrian with this
idea, He was so put off.
(39:37):
It's like this.
I don't want to schedule sex.
That's weird Like it's weird.
It creates this expectation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What if you're not feeling it,you know, like it's important
Also to be able to say no inyour relationship and be like
this this just feels like areally weird way to initiate
It's like okay.
Well, it's five o'clock onTuesday So it's like yeah, you
know go take our clothes off andstuff like not at all No, no,
(40:00):
but something I really likedthat she recommends is that It
doesn't have to be like sexspecifically that you're
scheduling.
It can be any kind of physicalintimacy, something that's going
to bring you closer physically.
So it could be massages, itcould be like a certain amount
of time of kissing and you caneven make it like, don't take
yourself seriously here.
Like play around with yourpartner, make it playful, make
(40:21):
it fun.
Joke about it.
It'll feel so much moreapproachable.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
So Vanessa said she recommendscoming up with like a bare
minimum activity that you canagree on beforehand so that when
that time comes, you're like,okay, well at least we can kiss
for like, you know, 30 secondsor we can exchange massages for
like three minutes each.
It doesn't have to be anythinglike huge.
(40:42):
It doesn't have to take up a tonof your time.
Yeah.
And then, you know, like onceyou get into that, into the role
of that, like maybe.
Maybe one thing leads toanother, and suddenly you're
having just that little bit moresex
lindsay (40:55):
than you were before.
It totally might lead on.
It might lead.
It might lead on to like more.
Yeah.
Lead on to more than just likethat three minute like hand
massage.
Absolutely.
It sets,
Jordan (41:08):
it gives, it gives you both the invitation and the
space.
Yes.
To let it become something more.
Yes.
If you want it to be in thatmoment, because that's what
we're not getting as parents isthat opportunity and that little
bit of space and that's what wehad at the beginning of our
relationships.
Oh, it's what we had in spades.
We had so much time for ourpartners, you know, like without
(41:29):
a kid running around meals totry and come up with without
groceries to go and buy and likea house to maintain.
Yeah, that
lindsay (41:37):
was, it's almost like the piece of the pie.
That was the piece of the pie.
Yeah.
Before kids was like, there wasa big piece there, like your
partner.
Yeah.
And then it literally got the,when the moment you had a child,
that child took over that bigpiece of the pie.
Yup.
Jordan (41:51):
Absolutely.
The kid is like, is the pie.
lindsay (41:56):
Everything revolves around the kid.
And
Jordan (41:58):
there's, I love my baby.
There is nothing, nothing thatis less, uh, sexually intriguing
than being around a screamingkid all day.
Like.
Well, I mean, that's probably agood thing that we're programmed
that way, but it's not great forthe sex life.
So my hot take this week is ifyou want to be showing your
(42:22):
partner that you prioritize, youknow, that your sexual or
physical intimacy is importantto you, just try scheduling sex.
Just try it.
lindsay (42:33):
See what happens.
Give it a shot.
Yeah.
One, however many times you wantto try it.
I was about to say once a week,but no, it doesn't, that's what
works for us.
Like, yeah, that's great.
I mean, there's also like theweekends that we've been home
and like, you know, there's naptime, obviously.
Sure.
Yeah.
Jordan (42:52):
Fingers crossed for nap time.
Yeah.
Or all the reasons.
Not just for sex.
Yeah.
Um, yes.
So yeah.
And that's another thing to keepin mind.
Your partner, you and yourpartner may not have like this,
You may not want the same amountof sex and that's okay.
I think this is a season to beabsolutely like Um, give
yourself so much grace and giveyour partner so much grace and
(43:15):
just try to meet in the middleas much as you can.
I think any amount of effort andcommunication around this is
going to make a difference.
If you want to have sex once amonth or once every three months
or once a day, if you'reabsolutely wild and that's your
thing, go for it.
I love that for you.
Um, so yeah, try and figure outwhat will really work for you
and your partner.
(43:36):
Make it a bare minimum thing andpop it in that calendar.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Go for it.
Go for it.
All right.
So that's, that's my whole spielfor this week.
Yeah.
I hope it works for you.
Fun new topic.
lindsay (43:48):
Yeah.
Jordan (43:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Fun new topic.
All right.
Well, we're getting kind ofpushing the time here.
Yeah.
So we should start to getwrapping up.
Yes.
So, yeah.
lindsay (43:56):
Take it.
Yeah.
We're going to recommendsomething crazy and fun, random,
every single Or boring.
Yeah.
If you're like, uh, I don't wantanything to do with that
product.
Then you just end your episodeearly.
So, yeah.
Each episode, something random,something crazy, something fun
that we're doing at home.
(44:17):
Reading,
Jordan (44:17):
watching, listening to, playing with, observing.
lindsay (44:22):
something that is popular out there in the mom
world or parent world.
I would, I'll just reiterateparent world.
Yes.
There's some families that don'thave mamas.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
so something out there that'scrazy in the parent world right
now, everybody's talking aboutit.
Jordan (44:37):
Everybody.
You guys, you've been talkingabout this.
I know you've been talking aboutthis.
lindsay (44:43):
You can't stop.
Even if you're not a parent.
You've probably
Jordan (44:47):
been talking about this.
All the kids.
We're talking about this.
lindsay (44:53):
Well I know my daughter would be because she's obsessed
with me using it.
We have the Bissell CrosswavePepro All In One Wet Dry Vacuum
Cleaner and Mop.
Woo!
Jordan (45:07):
Do you know what that is?
I, okay, I've seen it.
Lindsay sent me a one minutevideo.
A full minute video of her usingthis vacuum on her floor.
lindsay (45:19):
A mom minute is a long time.
Yeah, this thing is a mopvacuum.
Wrap your heads around that, howawesome that is.
You don't have to vacuum andthen like mop the floors later,
but this thing does it all atonce.
And it's incredible.
All the moms are freaking out onsocial media about this.
(45:40):
I know I need it.
I have a dog.
I have a child.
There's leaves everywhere in myhouse.
It's
Jordan (45:44):
raining today.
It's raining today.
The floors are muddy.
lindsay (45:46):
Yeah.
It's insane.
This thing is awesome hardsurface floors or a rug, where
you can have, yeah, itliterally, I'm sure it works on
carpet, I don't know, we don'thave carpet, we just have rugs
and hard, hard floors in ourhome.
You put the cleaning solution inthere.
I personally use vinegar anddish soap and water because I
don't like the smell of theharsh chemicals.
(46:08):
Oh, I don't know.
That's my personal preference,but put it in and you hit go and
this thing literally like shootsout the cleanings of stuff and
vacuums at the same time andit's just incredible and then
it's easier than sweeping.
Yes,
Jordan (46:23):
it's like easier than sweeping the floor.
lindsay (46:25):
Yeah, yeah.
And I don't have to get on thefloor and like mop up anything.
I, it just does it.
And then it's self cleans at theend.
Best part.
Yeah.
Best part is you hook it up tothis little like station, you
pour hot water in the station,you hit the on button and it
vacuums up the hot water andcleans the whole fucking thing.
It's insane.
(46:45):
I absolutely love using it.
I use it two to three times aweek.
Jordan (46:50):
Yeah, and your floors look incredible.
Yeah.
They're so
lindsay (46:53):
shiny.
Yeah, I mean, and it goes sofast.
It's I it's literally under 15minutes to do my whole house.
Yeah, that's how fast it isbecause I'm getting it all done
at once.
Yeah,
Jordan (47:04):
think of all the time you could save out there
parents.
lindsay (47:07):
It's worth every dollar.
It's spendy out there.
I think, you know, there'sobviously like Black Friday or
their sales all the time, butIt's worth every dollar.
Yeah, for
Jordan (47:16):
sure.
I'll have to check it out.
Yeah.
I keep telling her to bring itover.
I think she's, oh yeah, Ishould.
Yeah,
lindsay (47:21):
you should.
I'll bring it over next time.
But you can do it.
Jordan (47:24):
Check it out.
Test it on the carpet.
Yes.
Well, yes.
Uh, hang tight.
We'll get back to you on thecarpet.
Yeah.
Just sit there on the edge ofyour seat till.
lindsay (47:34):
Can't wait to hear about the wet dry vacuum
Jordan (47:37):
from Bissell.
Awesome.
Well, that's it everybody.
Yeah.
That's all we've got for youtoday.
I hope you enjoyed hearing aboutsex and DMR, two very disparate
topics.
When you're a mom, you got to gofrom one thing to the next.
So there you go.
lindsay (47:51):
Random is awesome.
Keep it random.
We have kids.
We have
Jordan (47:56):
kids.
And that's us.
Peace out.
Bye.
lindsay (47:58):
Bye.
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