007 - Second child scaries.

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Trigger warning: miscarriage comes up as a big topic in this episode. Please skip ahead if you’re not up for that conversation today. 

In this vulnerable episode, we dive into the big question: should we have more kids? We talk about the fears and hopes of expanding our families, from postpartum anxiety and miscarriage to the joy of sibling love.

We also touch on the logistics—traveling with one kid is hard enough, what about two? And of course, we sprinkle in some cheeky advice on keeping the spark alive with your partner, even when life gets messy.

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Episode Transcript

Jordan (00:00):
It would be really scary to have that experience and then
look down the barrel of, um,Yeah.
Potentially having it again.
Mm hmm when you're putting somuch of your like heart and soul
into trying to like Yeah, a newlife.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a

Lindsay (00:13):
big deal=really crazy And I just remember asking
myself, how, how do people dothis again?

Jordan (00:31):
Hey.
Hi.
Hi.
Hi, how's it going?

Lindsay (00:37):
Hanging out during nap time.
Yep,

Jordan (00:40):
that's what we do.
Sometimes we have to.
Yep, that's, that's, that's whatit's like to be a mom.
You get, you get a little bit oftime to yourself and it's while
your kid's asleep.
Yes.
So here we are.
This is We Have Kids.

Lindsay (00:54):
We Have Kids.
Yep.
And we have, we are wondering ifwe should have more.

Jordan (00:59):
We are wondering if we should have more.
Yeah.
Big topic.
We've been talking about this alot lately and it wasn't even
supposed to be slotted in as atopic for our podcast, but it
became such a kind of emotionaland heated.
Discussion that yeah, we thoughtit'd be a fun one to share with
everyone before we got too intoit.
Yeah, but yeah, let's chat alittle bit.

(01:20):
Let's catch up.
It's been a

Lindsay (01:21):
minute.
Yeah, I'm trying to understandwhy it's been a minute.
I've had, I had surgery a fewdays ago and I think I'm just
recovering essentially fromthat.
More so from the anesthesia thanthe surgery, I feel.

Jordan (01:36):
Yeah, that's usually

Lindsay (01:37):
the case.
So yeah, I've been putting off alittle wrist surgery, I have a
condition called de Quervain's,I don't know if anyone has
really ever heard of this.
I'm sure there are

Jordan (01:48):
other moms who have heard

Lindsay (01:49):
of it.
Yeah.
And so this is like a conditionwhere you have inflammation in
the tendons that run through thedistal radius into your thumb.
My thumb is like all jacked andcute and black and blue.
Yeah, it's dark.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it's just tighteningand inflammation of the tendon
that runs right through thatchannel.

(02:10):
And it's from doing the samemovement that you've never
really done your whole life.
All of a sudden you're doing itevery day, all day, over and
over and over.
What is that?

Jordan (02:19):
What is that movement?
Yeah, for me, picking up a

Lindsay (02:23):
baby.
Yeah.
Uh, it's just one of thosethings where you can like ice
and brace and yada, yada, yada.
But when you're busy, stay athome, mom, it's just kind of
like impossible to deal with andthere, but there is a surgery to
help and I figure I'm probablynot going to be done picking her

Jordan (02:36):
up until.
You got a little while.
A few.

Lindsay (02:40):
Quite a few years.
Yeah, definitely.
So I went ahead with the surgeryand just recovering from
anesthesia, I think mostly thisweek than anything else.
Yeah.
Surgery is really

Jordan (02:49):
fast.
Yeah.
So we didn't get together forthe first little bit of the week
from that.
My husband, yeah, Adrian hadsurgery for his thumb.
He got in a mountain bikingaccident.
Yeah.
Uh, kind of at the end of lastsummer, early fall and finally
got around to getting his thumbfixed.
So I just, I've got.
Couple other family memberswho've had surgery.
It's been a it's

Lindsay (03:08):
been a crazy couple weeks like all of a sudden
everyone around you Yeah, and

Jordan (03:12):
then also I've had a what were you say no keep going
about surgery

Lindsay (03:27):
I'm done.
No?
Okay.
If anyone needs like a goodwrist hand surgeon, I got one
for you.
Okay.

Jordan (03:33):
Yeah.
Come to Utah.
We'll get you covered.
Yeah.
Well, not covered.
Your insurance is going to haveto cover it.

Lindsay (03:40):
We'll get you covered with all the info.
Yeah.
I know.
Step

Jordan (03:43):
one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I have my kiddo.
I just started swim lessons.
That's another thing I've beenreally busy with.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's been super fun.
I, she's, she's one and a half.
She just turned 18 monthsyesterday.
I didn't even do anything.
Oh, whoa.
Or think about it once

Lindsay (04:00):
it happens.

Jordan (04:01):
Geez.
It's all good.
It does happen.
Wow.
Yay.
18 months.
Yeah, 18 months.
And she's, she's doing reallywell swimming.
It's so funny because she getsin the water, they dunk her and
they flip her onto her back anddo all these cool, like,
survival things with her.
And she.
The first time took really wellto it and then after that she

(04:21):
kind of just like screams herway through the ten minutes that
the They're ten minute lessonseach day Yeah, so I kind of
thought that she was hating itbut when we get in the car to
leave I don't know if anyoneelse's have this experience with
anything, but it's my first timehaving this experience.
It's weird You think she'shating it hating it hating in
the pool because she's literallyscreaming bloody murder But then

(04:42):
we get in the car and she allshe can talk about is swimming
And she'll like wake up in themorning and I'll get her out of
her car we've been going in themorning, like 8.
50, so we're leaving the housearound 8.
20.
I get her up for the day, andI'm like, Hey, what are we gonna
do today?
And she goes, Swimming! And getsall stoked, and then is like,
Splash! Splash! And then says,Turtle! Cause her favorite
little toy that they play within there is a turtle.

(05:04):
And then cries the whole waythrough the Interesting.
Session again,

Lindsay (05:09):
when you get her back in the car from the lesson, is
she still like upset?

Jordan (05:12):
Nope, not at all.
She's like done being upset.
The moment she gets out of thepool, she's done crying.
She turns around and looks atthe kids who are in the pool.
There's usually one other kidstill swimming in the pool and
then she swaps out with somebodyelse.
So just two, two at a time.
And she looks at the other kidin the pool and all she's
transfixed.
All she wants to do is watch

Lindsay (05:30):
them.
Yeah.
That's very

Jordan (05:32):
interesting.
And she loves

Lindsay (05:33):
watching them.
Cause you're like, I actuallydon't know what she's feeling.

Jordan (05:37):
Yeah.
So me and Adrian are like, wasshe just like overwhelmed?
And that's where the tears arecoming from.
But it doesn't mean that she'shaving a bad time necessarily.
She's just like hyper stimulatedand learning new skills and that
can be a lot.
Interesting.
That's my only guess.
Yeah, but that's pretty much it.
Um, other, other, um, anythingelse?

(05:58):
I have family visiting.
Well, I have my surgery just tohelp me out around the house,
which has been great.
My daughter loves her grandmaand grandpa.
Aww.
Yeah, so they're getting good,good time to see her.
I booked a trip to Floridacoming up.
Oh yeah, you're going toFlorida, that's awesome.
Yeah,

Lindsay (06:13):
with my girlfriends from back in Minnesota.
So that'll be fun, just to getaway and sit in the hot Florida
sun in April, I can't wait.
Yeah, that'll be sweet.
And then you and I have a tripcoming up in St.
George in May.
Yeah.
That's something to look forwardto.
Yeah.
It's just kind of like we'rejust living through the end of
the winter here.

(06:33):
Getting excited for spring.
Yeah.
And

Jordan (06:35):
also thinking about what comes next.

Lindsay (06:41):
What do you mean?
Oh, like if we're having kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man, Jordan and I have theseconversations almost daily.
Right.
For a long, for a

Jordan (06:53):
while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it started with like you, um,I'm older.
Yeah.
Sure.

Lindsay (07:00):
So I guess maybe that's probably what brought in the
conversation because I was like,damn, I need to have another kid
quick.
Yeah.

Jordan (07:06):
And I feel like you started trying for a while
there, like, and I wasn't readyat all to be trying.
I was like, Oh, you're going forit?
We

Lindsay (07:13):
got pregnant.
Yeah.
I unfortunately had amiscarriage at that pregnancy,
but, um, we, Got pregnant a lotsooner than I freaking thought
we were gonna totally and I waslike wow that so I was pregnant
for about 11 weeks 12 weeks.
I found out 12 weeks that I wasmiscarrying And then ever since

(07:37):
that it's what we took a stepback like, okay, let's just slow
things down we had a reallyhectic fall stressful for both
of us we had our miscarriage atthat time and Like, let's just
take a step back and just kindof re evaluate and slow down and
calm down.
And like, you know, we took itas a sign as like, maybe it was
a reason that we couldn't havethat baby at this time.

(08:00):
And uh, re center, yes.
Like just kind of get our headslike back to where we were when
we were trying to conceive ourfirst born.
and then ever since then, it'sjust been kind of like a time
to.
Look at how my postpartumexperience was and I had a tough
one that came out of nowhere forme and a lot of my family and

(08:21):
friends were surprised by thathappening to me as well.
And so I had time to kind oflook at that and be like, man, I
really don't want to go throughthat again.
Yeah.
So what?
So I have to make sure like thatI have that conversation with
family and friends.
What can we do that this doesn'thappen?
This X, Y, Z.

(08:41):
What, what are Lindsay's supportsystems?
Like, what can we do completelydifferent so that I do have a
better postpartum experience ifI'm gonna have another child?
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so it's just been like a lotof back and forth because I've
obviously opened up a lot aboutthis topic with you and you've
been wonderful and giving methat like insight like Your

(09:02):
experience was you guys both,both decided on having two kids
My husband and I agreed to havetwo kids initially.

Jordan (09:09):
I thought you wanted three initially.
Did you

Lindsay (09:11):
ever want three?
No, Andrew does.
Oh, maybe that's what I wasthinking.
Yeah, he, he does.
He wants like a, I think he'seven thinking about freezing
some of his sperm in case Ichanged my mind after his
vasectomy.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
He's even thinking of it.
I'm like, I

Jordan (09:26):
don't know how I would,

Lindsay (09:29):
but you'd

Jordan (09:30):
never know.
So yeah, you do never know.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's not.
Wait, maybe it is expensive.

Lindsay (09:36):
I would imagine it's got to be a little price tag on

Jordan (09:38):
that.
Yeah, maybe Yeah, I have noidea.
I've never thought of that Likefor myself.
Yeah

Lindsay (09:45):
Yeah, so we'll just I don't know.
I'm this this conversation isgonna go back and forth a lot on
this episode, but Um, weinitially decided on two and I
think that that's that initialdecision is holding pretty
strong.
Yeah.
On one.
For the most part.
Yeah.
For the most part.
And on one end of it.
And then the other end of it isjust like my postpartum
experience that I felt reallystrongly about.

(10:06):
Yeah.
And went through that is makingme feel hesitant.
Going through miscarriage wasobviously.
Oh, a huge part of that.
A huge part of that.
Yeah.
And I don't want to go through.
A couple more of those at all.
There's a lot of women that Ireally admire for trying and
trying and trying and trying.
I don't know how they can getthemselves through that.
It's really inspiring that theycan just keep trying and trying

(10:26):
and trying, but I am somebodythat definitely after going
through that, that one lastfall, I don't know if I can go
through two more of those.
Yeah.
So, and it takes a long time,like my cycle's been way off
since that miscarriage.
It is even right now it's off.
And so it's just taking a longtime to kind of just regulate

(10:47):
your hormones

Jordan (10:48):
again.
It's got to take a long timetoo, because it's, um, it should
go without saying that it's areally heavy emotional
experience.
Yeah, but I don't so myperception of miscarriage before
I ever got pregnant and Ihaven't had a miscarriage
fortunately.
Um, but, but my perception of itwas that it was like.
I don't know.

(11:08):
It was like a, I don't want tosay it was just like a period
that was heavier, but you don'treally think about how, how
emotionally taxing it actuallyis and how devastating it can be
and how disruptive to your lifeand to your goals and to your
dreams and to like this newposition that you, you know,
like getting pregnant is such abig deal in your head.
It changes everything.
It changes the way you moveforward.

(11:31):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think, yeah, so I just wantedto call out the fact that we
didn't necessarily mentionspecifically that A miscarriage
is a big heavy thing, but thatis a big heavy thing and that's
gonna mess with your ability tore regulate too.

Lindsay (11:46):
Yeah, I think i'm gonna move forward with the decision
that You know, I've obviouslytalked with my husband about
this, but if I were to have onemore miscarriage I think I would
be done trying.
Interesting.
And then just see if I would getpregnant again before the age of
like 41 or 42.

Jordan (12:00):
When you say just see, like, you would just, like,
Casually try.
Right.
Like, not even, yeah.
Tracking ovulation cycles.
Correct.
But you would maybe just not usecontraceptives.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Lindsay (12:11):
Yeah.
I think I'm, yeah, just to kindof keep, get the load off my

Jordan (12:14):
mind.
Yeah.
And kind of like, just not tosound too woo woo, but let the
universe just do with you whatit will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sometimes you do have tosurrender a little bit like that
and that's okay.
Yeah.
There's

Lindsay (12:24):
always, yeah.
Even like going through thatmiscarriage of the word
surrender that you justmentioned, there's definitely a
good level of surrendering tothat even though too, which is
so hard.
Yeah.
It's so hard to surrender tothat fully because I'm still
like going through, uh, theemotions of it all.
Not every day anymore, but itcomes kind of randomly and it's
still pretty strong andemotional, but man, that part of

(12:48):
my life or going through thatexperience has really like dived
into Deciding about havinganother kid or not.
Yeah crazy.

Jordan (12:56):
Yeah, so talk a little bit about About those feelings.
Obviously, Andrew has made uphis mind.
He definitely wants to, andthere's no kind of back and
forth in his head, it soundslike.
Interesting.
Yeah, so me and Lindsay startedhaving this conversation, just
for context here.
We started having thisconversation, and then I was
like, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Before we get heated andemotional, we should, we should

(13:17):
save it.
So I don't know everything here.
I know little bits, but.
But yeah, I'm here, I'm here tohear about this experience and
to add my own because I, I toohave had thoughts that are like,
yeah, do this could be easy tojust have one kid.
Yes.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah.
So back, back to you though.
So Andrew does just want to,when did the feelings start

(13:38):
coming up for you that you werelike, when did you start
thinking to yourself, maybe onecould be the right number for

Lindsay (13:43):
you?
Um, I would say initially intopostpartum.
Um, probably within the firstfew

Jordan (13:48):
weeks.
So pre miscarriage.

Lindsay (13:50):
Yes.
Pre miscarriage I had thosefeelings like right in the heat
of my postpartum because I wasgoing through Demer and just
kind of like icky tough stuffthat I didn't have a lot of
support for like right in theget go of it, right in the
beginning of it all.
And I just remember askingmyself, how, how do people do

(14:12):
this again?
Yeah.
and I just want to preface thatmy daughter was an incredible
baby.
She was happy.
She slept well.
She ate well.
not colic, not like anything.
It was all, uh, um, my hormoneswere going whack and crazy.
And he just really had a reallyhard time like managing it.

(14:33):
And also just didn't have likethe tools to, to know how to
manage any of it either.

Jordan (14:38):
That sounds like, uh, our next podcast episode.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Lindsay (14:42):
Yeah.
We were going to dive intofourth trimester and I wish I
had dove really into that beforeshe was born.
But I didn't know, like, I justdidn't have the resources to
dive into that until after.
So, which I have a feeling a lotof moms go through.
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
But we're learning about fourthtrimester now, and we're taking

(15:03):
all the steps we can to, uh, ifwe do have another baby, be
ready to go.
and then you know, just sometime went by and I didn't really
think about it or have issueswith it.
We were just like, Oh, my age isup there.
Let's start trying when I getlike my cycle back.
And then how,

Jordan (15:20):
how old are you?
Just so everyone can, wouldanyone like to

Lindsay (15:23):
know?
I will, I'm 37 years old and Iwill be 38 the end of this year.
Which we are going to try forprobably be 38 when I have my
next baby.
Yeah.
39.
It's fine.
It's fine.
You're healthy.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(15:43):
You've got your support.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's all good.
Um, but yeah, I'm up there and,um, it's crazy how, Just being
at that, like I'm just gonnasteer off of here for a second.
It's just crazy that like whenyou are above 35, how much that
is highlighted and worried andadded like stress in the

(16:05):
healthcare, in the healthcaresetting and then also from like
random conversations too.
It's just kind of like aheightened part of the
conversation when you are havingthe conversation about having
kids and how the age that youare and like, whatever.
I don't know why it has to bepart of the conversation, but
there's also like, I was, I'm,I'm a very healthy individual.
So my appointments were quick,which is, I'm so grateful for.

(16:26):
It's kind of annoying that youhave as many appointments as you
do when you're over 35.
When you are pregnant, you havethem like every four weeks.
And they were just, but theywere quick and they were good.
So yada, yada, yada.
So I'm feeling good about it,but it's still like now that I'm
coming back into the beginningof trying again.
You're possibly entering thatpart of life.
It's why is that such like astressor on my mind?

(16:49):
You know, it's just like

Jordan (16:50):
right there.
It's like gotten to you.
Yes.

Lindsay (16:52):
Yeah.
but okay.
So, then it started again, thatfeeling of holding off.
Maybe we shouldn't be havinganother kid after my
miscarriage.
Yeah.
Just with all the emotions thatgo involved with that.
That makes

Jordan (17:04):
sense.
Yeah.
It's scary.
It would be really scary to havethat experience and then look
down the barrel of, um, Yeah.
Potentially having it again.
Mm hmm when you're putting somuch of your like heart and soul
into trying to like Yeah, a newlife.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a

Lindsay (17:20):
big deal really crazy how strong of a feeling it is to
be like I Never want to gothrough a miscarriage again.
Yeah, I never ever ever want tofeel that sorrow I never ever
ever want to feel That For me,and for, for one, I was out in
public when it happened.

(17:41):
So like, I never want toobviously go through like that
feeling of it either.
But like the amount that itholds on me is to never go
through it again.
It's really hard because I neverwant to go through it like that
again.
I should probably find like agroup of moms out there that
have gone through miscarriagesand can share.

(18:03):
about their experiences and butthat was in September.
It was now March.
And so now the feeling of liketrying again is creeping up on,
on our fam, on our plan.
And I'm hesitant because Ihaven't been trying since our

Jordan (18:18):
miscarriage.
You haven't had to like, yeah,you haven't had to prioritize it
and think about it.

Lindsay (18:24):
Yeah.
Right.
So I'm trying to, ease my wayinto the, I, you know, the, the
conception contract is somethingthat we're talking about The
fact that like you kind of getyour, your mindset with your
same with your spouse, you'reboth ready to try.
You're both on the same page.
You're both like ready to acceptwhat it is that happens.

(18:44):
So now I'm creeping into thatand it's really like a lot
slower than my

Jordan (18:48):
first.
Interesting.
Are you having any tension, uh,in the sort of like differences
that are happening between yourmental state?
Approaching this and Andrew'smental state approaching

Lindsay (18:59):
this a little bit.
Yeah, he's he's all ready to go.
Yeah And I think that hassomething to do with it.
You know his body not goingthrough.
Oh, yeah, of course it doesthrough everything He's ready to
go, but he also is like Learninghow to hear me out and hear
about my experience really beingpatient Really trying to
understand withoutunderstanding, you know, like

(19:21):
when you when they don't gothrough it but He's definitely
being patient, but he'sdefinitely also, like, ready to
go for it and I'm

Jordan (19:30):
like, Does that, yeah, it's, it

Lindsay (19:33):
is, it is hard.
Yeah.
I, I definitely don't, like,look at that as like a negative
thing.
It is what it is because he is amale and like, because he can,
and he hasn't gotten throughlike, Um, anything that I go
through, absolutely.

Jordan (19:46):
And if you do, if ultimately at the, in the
deepest part of your bones, youare congruent with the idea of
carrying on and trying toconceive and having another baby
in your family.
I think that, well, if it wereme, I would want my husband to
have that readiness because Ithink it's something that I
could maybe like, yeah, borrow

Lindsay (20:05):
from.
Yes.
Yeah.
I definitely am.
That's a great word.
I'm definitely borrowing alittle bit from people's
positive.
remarks to the experience I didhave.
There is some, it's somethingvery interesting.
Like obviously it's there's likesadness and sorrow and dark, but
then there's also like thislight that was reassuring that

(20:26):
it wasn't meant to be at thattime.
It's very interesting.

Jordan (20:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a wild, like, it soundslike, it sounds like a
motherhood journey in that it's,uh, when, yeah, when I first
became a mom, I was like, theemotions and the hormones and
the craziness it felt like theextremes, like you get extreme
joy and like wonder and awe andlike, just taking it back so
much that your breath kind ofgoes.

(20:51):
And then at the same time youjust get Overwhelmed and your
brain's overworked and you justare so run down and it's just
like Suddenly all of theseextremes exist in one moment
together.
Yeah in a way that they justdidn't before And it sounds a
little bit like that Like yeah,like it's almost hard to contend
with the the two ends of thethings that you're feeling.

(21:11):
Yeah

Lindsay (21:12):
one thing that you and I also have had conversations
about that is reassuring too istime does get better or, you
know, as, as time goes on, itgets better.
And that was really hard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that was really hard for meto hear in the thick of my
postpartum and just weeks.
I was like, how is that evenpossible to like, see that, how

(21:33):
is it even possible?
Like that almost sounded likeannoying and I didn't want to
hear it, but now experiencingthat and you also experiencing
that, like now that we both canlook.
hindsight 2020 we're like okaythat was like a period of time
that was really difficult thatwe conquered and then that makes
you feel strong and empoweredand like you can do it and
obviously having a second baby'sgonna have it's another set of

(21:57):
like trials yeah and

Jordan (21:58):
another set of things you have to learn like yeah it's
not as yeah it's not the same ashaving one kid again yeah having
just one kid

Lindsay (22:05):
i know what i kind of it's interesting because i'm
gonna look i have a feeling i'mgonna look back at What it was
like having one and be like,that was so easy, but I still
want to validate like all thetough moments that I did conquer
and go through.
So this is, this conversation isjust kind of really huge and all
over the place and yeah.

(22:27):
Every day there's something likea.
a reason to hold off or, andthen another day goes on and
there's a reason to moveforward.
Totally.

Jordan (22:35):
Yeah, so I think that the last time, I think when we
were doing our classic MarcoPolo ing about this, you were,
you were really in like a mentalstate that was like, You were in
a no place for having anotherkid.
And that was really interestingfor me to see.
I hadn't seen it before withyou.
You would like, cause we alwayskind of had both of our plans
were to have two kids, like wealready said.

(22:56):
So it was really interesting forme to be like, Oh, maybe she's
not gonna.
Go for it again, because it wasreally like she was really
coming through with thesefeelings that were like big and
clearly super heavy and it was,yeah, felt pretty considered.
So if you don't mind kind ofgetting into that headspace a
little bit, um, I don't want tobring up like too much negative
emotional stuff, but I do alsothink that it's important and

(23:19):
valuable for everyone to kind ofsee, see what this looks like.
What, what are the things thatyou're thinking in those moments
where you're like, are youlooking at your kid playing and
thinking, I'm happy and I don'twant to be unhappy.
Are you looking at your kidthinking she's enough?
Are you thinking I couldn't loveanother kid this month?
Like where, like what are thethoughts that you're having that

(23:40):
are creating

Lindsay (23:40):
that response?
So those, that day that I hadthat strong feeling of no, those
are days that, um, that I am.
Um, still, um, working throughmy emotions of my miscarriage.
Like I said, those aren't everyday, they come and go.
So that was probably a dark dayfor me, just to kind of like, it

(24:01):
just hits you all of a sudden.
I don't know how to explain it.
I don't even know if there'striggers from it or what, but it
just like hit me and sometimesLike, if I'm not, like, taking
care of my, like, doing mynormal self care thing it can
kind of creep in a little bit.
So those moments.
And that would be maybe a signof depression or something.
Sure.
Um, but like, if I'm not takingcare of, like, doing my self

(24:22):
care, like, routinely orsomething and then I all of a
sudden have that emotion come inkind of in the middle of all
that, that's when, like, the bigno comes in because it's like,
that was way too hard.
I don't know how I can do that.

Jordan (24:34):
Yeah, so it's just like an overwhelm to the point of
shutting down and being like, uhuh.
Yeah, that's a

Lindsay (24:39):
big no.
But then the next day, you know,I talk through it, like, you're
a great person to get on MarcoPolo with and just verbalize my
feelings.
And then you are also a greatlistener and you come back with
great feedback and I feel betterabout what I said because it was
validated, justified, andthere's still light.
It's like there's still somehope there that can, like

(25:01):
Obviously, yeah, make me feelgood about the days that I do
want to have a bigger family.
Sure.

Jordan (25:07):
And I don't remember exactly what I said.
I don't remember exactly whateither of us said.

Lindsay (25:10):
About, I think we were just talking about logistics.
Like, yeah, that sounds right.
Okay.
Like if we had two kids, theywouldn't be, one of them
wouldn't be feeling lonely.
If they, as with aging parents,you know, like, I think we were
just kind of talking about like.
That kind of stuff, like thelogistics of having two versus
one throughout their life.
They have a great friendshipwhen they're siblings and that's
all wonderful and beautiful.

(25:31):
And those are definite, like,reasons I want to have more.
Um, but to answer your question,I am okay with how happy.
My daughter is and how muchattention I'm giving her.
Sure.
and I am just so nervous thatI'm gonna, I mean, I know a
fricking every mom was going tofeel this way because a lot,

(25:52):
there are a lot of work workingmoms that are missing out on
time with their kids and youname it.
But I, I just like, I feel soShitty if I miss out on that
time with her.

Jordan (26:03):
Mm hmm that one on one time.
Yeah

Lindsay (26:05):
yeah, and that's what I worry the most or interesting or
the most is that I'm just likeGonna be missing out on time.
So that I obviously clearly needto work on and like make a list
and like understand like How Iam gonna be like Having time for
both of them.

Jordan (26:21):
Yeah, that's interesting.
That's something I haven'tthought that much about myself,
but I just read an articleyesterday that was talking about
exactly that.
It was somebody who was askinghow I make time for my toddler
when I have a new baby.
I think there were like threethings that the article said.
One was, um, obviously utilizenap time, which is like the
classic go to mom move.

(26:42):
And it terrifies me to thinkabout not having my own space
during nap time, but that's kindof a separate combo Um, well,
it's not that is a reason to nothave another kid, right?
Yeah, if you don't feel like youhave enough time for yourself,
and you're really starting tolose your your sense of self and
your identity Yeah, a goodreason to not have another kid
would be because you Don't feellike you can yeah.
Yeah, like that's totally validand I think yeah, that's

(27:06):
something that a lot of peopleget shit Like having people
accuse other people who use thatexcuses.
Yeah being selfish.
I don't personally think there'sanything wrong with being
selfish Life, I think it'sreally important to take care of
yourself first Especially ifyou're a mom because you're like
your kid will see that and learnto take care of themselves from
there's I mean I could go onforever.

Lindsay (27:27):
I know that I can have I know that our family can have
a beautiful life with one childI know that And I know that our
family could have a beautifullife with two children.
Yeah.
I, I do know that there's a,that, that's a possibility, but
it's because I'm in the familypresently, like with one child,
I see it.
You see the happiness.
Yeah.
I see that happening and that'swhy I feel more confident, like

(27:50):
choosing that route.

Jordan (27:51):
It's the known thing, right?
You've grown around that.
You've.
I've done routines around that,like everything becomes maybe
not perfectly comfortablebecause life with a toddler can
not be described as perfectlycomfortable, but at least you
kind of, you're aware of whatit's going to be like, but
introducing that second kid.
Yeah.
It's another.

(28:11):
It's kind of another mystery boxto be opened for sure.
Anyway, another thing thatarticle said was, to not think
of it as, as one on one time somuch, but think of it as not
fully, cause I think one on onetime is still important, but to
really also learn to value andprioritize.
time with both of them where youcan be doing things that they
both enjoy like reading a bookto both of them or Playing a

(28:32):
game with both of them andobviously I grew up in a family
with five kids So this isobvious to me and maybe not to
somebody who's an only child,but those kids love to play with
each=other Yes, It doesn't takeaway from.
It doesn't have your presence,right?
Both kids get that presence andyou get the presence of your
kids, you know, doubly.
I think, yeah, I only have onekid.

(28:54):
I would

Lindsay (28:54):
imagine that you do, because I've been thinking about
that too.
Like you definitely like, it'sso funny.
Some, some, a lot of people arelike, there's no way that your
parents can.
Love two children equally, theyhave to love your oldest more
because the oldest, you know,that kind of thing.
But parents really do.
Yeah.
Parents really do are like, it'sreally, truly like equally

(29:16):
spread out, which is reallycool.
But one thing that comes to mindis I think I have mentioned, I
have fear of the unknown on thispodcast at least once, this is
=definitely like bringinganother child into the realm.
Um, a successful pregnancy, afull term pregnancy, and birth

(29:36):
and postpartum, like that allfreaks me out and I'm just
terrified that the tough momentsare really going to be hard.
But that's when you really relyon, on resources and your
support system

Jordan (29:50):
and whatever you possibly have at your disposal
to rely on.
Yeah, definitely.
I

Lindsay (29:56):
feel like I'd be reaching out for anything and
everything just to like

Jordan (30:00):
Help with that.
Yeah.
Do my laundry.
Watch my kid.
Yeah.
Buy me groceries.
Bang me dinner.
Dude, there's so many things youcan do for, yeah, a support.
Yeah, we should write, we shoulddo an episode of how to support
someone in postpartum.
Yeah.

Lindsay (30:13):
Yeah, the book that we're kind of going through
right now.
Oh, yeah, of course.
We're gonna talk about that nexttime Yeah, the book that I'm
going through right now thefourth trimester.
She's definitely got the author.
She's got some great ideas Yeahof how to support.
I love that.
Just man.
I miss the ball and read thatbook

Jordan (30:31):
There's so much to think about yeah during pregnancy I
wasn't thinking about what I waslike, the fourth trimester is
not like real, so I'm just goingto focus on the trimester that
I'm in and then take it day byday by day.
And then you're thinking so muchabout labor and delivery too and
prepping for that, that youdon't pause too much to think
about the postpartum period.

(30:52):
Yeah.
And also I think the part of thereason that's really hard when
you, even when you do, because Idid try when I was pregnant with
my kid, I did try to think aboutthe postpartum period quite a
bit.
And you know, I prepped food andblah, blah,

Lindsay (31:04):
blah, blah, whatever.
But

Jordan (31:07):
you, you don't know what it's going to be like.
So you don't know how to preparefor it.
You don't know what kind ofsupport you're going to want or
need.
Like, I kind of had thisexpectation that I was going to
like let my house go to, like adisaster and it was going to be
a huge mess and like I was goingto be okay with it.
But I did, I was like up andcleaning.
Yeah.
You know, like there were thingsI had, there were these
expectations that I had and itwas totally different.

Lindsay (31:29):
Yes, absolutely.
This conversation is just likeback and forth.
We're going to keep going backand forth.
I'm ovulating early this cycle,so here we go.
We're trying.

Jordan (31:44):
Do you know what's another podcast episode that we
need in the near future?
Like how to, spoiler alert, meand Adrienne have also been
trying, how to try.
Oh yeah.
Jesus.

Lindsay (31:57):
Oh yeah.
You mean like scheduling.
I mean like, I

Jordan (32:00):
mean like, how do you have sex, maybe some people are
already having sex every day,but how do you have sex every
single day, especially when youalready have a kid?
Um, and make it, engaging andinteresting and not exhausting
and keep it from feeling like achore.
I have

Lindsay (32:14):
a cast on my arm.
So you

Jordan (32:17):
don't have to do much.

Lindsay (32:19):
And I didn't do much the other night.
Just in new into my cycle, notin the mood whatsoever with a
cast.
Here we go.
Like what?
But it's, it is what it is.
Yeah.

Jordan (32:36):
Yeah.
There's gotta be a host of tipsout there, but yeah, last time,
the last time I was in thecycle, me and my husband were
just like, uh,

Lindsay (32:47):
it's gotta

Jordan (32:47):
be so normal.
Yeah.
How?
Like we're so tired, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Getting from a to Z is like,not, it feels, feels tricky.
So yeah, maybe we'll talk ifanyone else is like, can we talk
about this?
Yeah.
We'll talk about that.
I could talk about that for likehalf an episode for sure.
Yeah.
Oh, so what are some reasons?

(33:07):
What are like the main reasonsif you had to make a list of
like five reasons why youwouldn't want to have a kid in
those moments, you've definitelytalked about like the difficulty
of, of it all.
Right.
Mm hmm.
And like how overwhelming thatfeels.
What are some other reasons whyyou would maybe feel like no?
Or is that the only one that youthink of?

Lindsay (33:28):
well, first and foremost, my postpartum
depression, I feel like thatwould get worse or in my, I feel
like I'm, I kicked postpartumanxiety like out.
I just was done with that.
I was not going to put myself inthat high of anxiety.
I just help myself such at ahigh standard that I won't be
doing that again.
I refuse.
So, but I am afraid that likethe demer would come back again.

(33:50):
I would feel like a failure.
I have like depressive momentsif I didn't have the support.
Those are kind of top travelingis really easy right now.
I travel.
Okay.
So when we do travel in thecountry.
My husband drives with our dogand I fly with my daughter.
Yep.

Jordan (34:09):
And you guys have

Lindsay (34:09):
that system, system dialed and I would've, yeah.
We have that system dialed.
It works great for our family.
I have a feeling that that'swould be continuing for our
family and that, that kind ofdaunts me a little bit.
I feel pretty hesitant that thatwould be really hard.
And with

Jordan (34:24):
two kids.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can see that.
And

Lindsay (34:26):
that's probably gonna be hard for a while.
Yeah.
I would imagine like years andyears of, of doing that.
Mm.
So that is kind of just like a,Ugh.
Um, another one is obviouslylike, I, my mama heart hurts a
little bit when you take awaythat time, that, that,

Jordan (34:42):
that time with your, with your one child,

Lindsay (34:46):
um, risking the miscarriage, another
miscarriage.
Yeah, again, definitely.
And just with like the amount oftime that goes in, that comes
involved.
Yeah, time

Jordan (34:55):
and like, yeah.
Yeah, with the dysregulation.
Yeah, yes,

Lindsay (34:59):
totally.
Yeah, those are kind of like mytop reasons, which I feel like
are very normal and a lot ofother mamas for sure probably
feel But then there's also a lotof like positive

Jordan (35:11):
reasons.
Yeah, for sure.
Before we get into those, uh,the reasons I, so I don't, I
don't usually, uh, so we haven'ttalked, I haven't talked too
much about this.
I mean, my husband are prettyset on wanting to, and I think
that because we made thatdecision early on and because I
didn't struggle as much inpostpartum, it's a little easier
for me to avoid.
I mean, it's not like we'retrying to avoid these thoughts.

(35:32):
They're natural.
Yeah.
It's just, they don't come up asmuch for me.
So, but I do have, I totallyhave had them.
Like I, I've caught myself inmoments being like, Oh, if we
have another kid, then this isgoing to be tricky.
Or like the main example that Ihave is we went on a climbing
trip down into the desert like aweek or two ago, just before
Adrian's surgery.
And I realized that our vanseats aren't going to fit two

(35:55):
car seats.
And I was like, yeah, shit.
The whole reason we put the seatin the back, it's a double seat.
Is for two kids.
Yeah.
But I wasn't thinking aboutfucking car seats.
Like what the hell?
And so I was like, oh shit, wehave like not that much time to
be taking advantage of going onthese van trips that are so fun.

(36:15):
And me and me and my kids sleepunderneath the bed and then
we've got our little setup andour systems dialed and the nap
time works really well.
And then I can get a decentamount of climbing in during the
day.
And when I imagined that lifewith a baby, a new baby as well,
the whole thing just fell apart.
I was like, we're not going tobe, we will not be doing this.

(36:35):
Like we could take trips stillin just my car with both the car
seats.
We're not going to be able tojust camp in the van.
And camp, camping is harder withtwo tiny, tiny kids.
So maybe we rent an Airbnb, butthen that kind of feels just
like a, I don't know, liketraveling, doing climbing trips,
coming back into my, my self,like becoming, you know, like

(36:57):
having that identity, like as arock climber who goes out all
the time.
It just like, you get pregnantwith your first kid.
You understand that your body'sgonna go through a lot, and any
kind of, like that you'd like todo or, you know, for me, it's
rock climbing and yoga and allthese things, mountain biking,
skiing.
I'm like, I can't, you know, yougotta give them up for a little
bit and you're like, okay,that's fine.

(37:19):
So you give them up for a bit,but right now where I'm at in
life, I feel really strong.
I feel like I'm in a place whereI can get stronger.
You know, I'm like gaining backthat identity as.
The person who does these thingsand the thought of becoming
pregnant again pushes the like,yeah, pushes the retention of
that identity.

(37:39):
Way down the road into God knowswhere.
It's so hard, yeah.
Yeah, so for me, that's, that'slike the main reason is like,
there are, and there are a lotof things that feed back into
that.
So it's losing my body and mybody's abilities.
That's a huge one for me, likenot being able to do like a
simple, easy backbend and yogafor like almost a full year.

(38:01):
And here's

Lindsay (38:01):
the thing, people are going to be like, Oh, that'll
come back, that'll come back.
And I can tell you, it'll comeback, you'll have time.
But it's seriously hard.
It's, it's personally hard topush that off further because
you

Jordan (38:14):
want that back.
Yeah.
And I just, and especially whenyou just feel like you got it
back and it's so empowering andit's like fucking relieving and
you feel like yourself.
And then just to think about,yeah, it being doubly hard to
get it back because you have twokids and you've got to like
juggle the time and energy andshit.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
So the other thing, obviouslythat.

(38:35):
That you didn't mention isanother reason that I've thought
of is like finances.
Oh, she has a great reason toput off having another kid or
not have one.
Kids are expensive.
The world is expensive.
Uh, maternity leave isn'tsomething that we get, which is
like a hot topic that I don'treally want to get into right
now, but, but like all of thesekinds of reasons and yeah, we

(38:56):
have some help and some support.
Um, it's just

Lindsay (38:59):
like buckling up for like the toughest years of your
life.
And it's really hard to likesee.
The light and the awesomeness atthe end of those tough years.
Totally.
You have no idea how long thoseyears

Jordan (39:15):
are going to last.
Yeah.
And then you get into the yearsand, and like, you know,
they're, they are so tough.
They are the toughest.
Like, I don't want to like saythey're so easy, but in the
moments where you're just likeenjoying your child and feeling
like that, the joy and happinessthat they give you, this sounds
so cliche.
Holy shit.
But it's true.
Like you're like, Oh, I would doanything for this.
Yes.

(39:35):
So that's I know, I

Lindsay (39:36):
know, you know,

Jordan (39:37):
it's like the dichotomy just slaps you in the face
again.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah So finances is a goodreason if you don't feel stable
I for me one of my one of mypersonal values one of the
things that is most important tome is feeling stable and Secure
and the thought of bringinganother kid into the world just
based on where we arefinancially alone Doesn't feel

(39:58):
doesn't always feel stable andsecure Um, even though we have
so much privilege, I don't like,you know, I am like, sure,

Lindsay (40:05):
this is your, your story or what you're going

Jordan (40:08):
through.
Totally.
Yeah.
I don't need anything lavish,but I do need to know I can pay
my bills every month.
Yeah, exactly.
And it's scary to think abouthospital bills and not working
for maternity leave and all thatshit.
Yeah.

Lindsay (40:20):
So there's this thing out there that, like, everyone's
like, you'll never be prepared.
Mm hmm.
Which is semi, like, reassuring.

Jordan (40:29):
Yeah, ironically reassuring.

Lindsay (40:32):
Yeah.
Yeah, I hear that a lot.
Like, I heard that a lot from,people in my family and my
friends that have had kidsbefore me that you'll never be
prepared.

Jordan (40:42):
Meaning like, just go for it.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's tricky.
So for me, those are thereasons.
Yeah.
Why I wouldn't is like justgiving up my body again for a
decent chunk of time.
Not knowing when I'll like kindof get that body and the sense
of identity that I get fromfeeling strong back.
Um, and then yeah, finances.

(41:03):
I, I don't have a lot of reasonsfor not having kids, like, as,
as time goes on.
Like, for me, the, the further Ilook down the road, the more I
see reasons in favor of havingtwo children.

Lindsay (41:15):
Same.
Same.
Yeah.
Like their future.
Yeah, totally.

Jordan (41:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah, like, from kind of themoment that I bring a baby home.
And introduce my daughter tothem and see their rea like, her
reaction, no matter what thatis, you know, if it's like, I
don't care, that'll be funny,and if it's like, oh, she's that
sweet little baby who's like,going viral on the internet for
the love she's giving hersibling, that'll be great too.

(41:41):
Yeah, just watching themnavigate life next to each other
and be able to learn from eachother and play with each other
and kind of riff off each otherand get into big, big trouble
together.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, come up with ideastogether.
I just feel like it's likeanother, a source of energy

Lindsay (41:58):
almost.
Yes.
Right.
And that is what I'm holding onto.
When going for a number.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Cause that, you're right, thatenergy is a big energy.
And it's a lovely one, and it'san awesome one, and I'm gonna
learn through it too.

Jordan (42:14):
And you're going to get a break from it as well.
Like I keep telling, I havefriends who want only one kid
and I totally respect thatdecision.
Makes like, if that's what makessense in your life, then that's
awesome.
We've given reasons.
And I think one, one, yeah, thetraveling thing never gets old.
I'm sure there are lots ofreasons.
Throughout life to have only onekid mental health.

(42:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess I said there kindof weren't but they're the same
reasons We said do still makesense But for me having another
kid means that my kid will havealways have someone to play with
I know I know a single childdoes have friends and stuff that
can come over or whose housesthey can go to but It's not like
that constant like from themorning to the evening sure

(42:57):
presence.
So there's like a for me I feellike there would be a lot of
Burden of entertainment almostlike on my shoulders.
I'd have to always make surethat the kid has something to
get up to.
But with a sibling, you kind ofjust don't have to even think
about it.
At least when I was growing up,my mom didn't have to put too
much effort into like, okay,what are Jordan and her sister
doing today?
Like we kind of had it figuredout by ourselves and we were

(43:20):
going to action those plans.
Yeah.
You know, very independent fromour parents, as independent from
our parents as we could.
And for me as a parent, thatsounds really appealing because
it allows them to have.
You know, their imagination isdoubled, their creativity could
be doubled, their, you know,their independence, I don't
know, they're just Gives

Lindsay (43:38):
you also a slight like mental load break.
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping.
That's what I'm hoping.
Yeah.

Jordan (43:46):
Yeah, who knows how that'll actually play out.
I might be like really biting mytongue when I'm Driving down the
road after four hours in the carwith two kids in the back
fighting.
I'm gonna be like, why did Ithink this was a good idea?
Why?
Oh, God.
Yeah.
Help me.
And

Lindsay (44:02):
also, too, it's interesting, parents are
eventually become empty nesters.
I mean, for the most part.
Mm hmm.
And then you start missing,like, your, your busy household.
Yeah.
You know, you hear about themmissing their busy household and
And they have another, like, wayof life at that point in age.

Jordan (44:22):
Yeah.
Another thing I think of a lotis Becoming a burden for my kids
to bear later in life, right?
Oh, sure, sure.
So, for me, Like, I split theresponsibility of, I mean, my
parents really aren't in need ofcare just yet.
Mostly.

Lindsay (44:44):
Your siblings are gonna listen to this and they're like,
Uh,

Jordan (44:47):
what are you talking about?
No, no, no, no.
We, I, my dad's going throughsome stuff right now that's
really tough, but Um, ingeneral, he can care for
himself, but yeah, so, sothey're not really at that point
yet.
But it's really comforting forme as an adult to know that when
that time comes, that they doneed more care and attention and

(45:07):
everything there, this, theburden of responsibility will be
split between five people in mydad's case, six people, because
there are a lot of us, so Idon't have to do a hundred
percent of the, of the workthere.
I have some friends who are.
Married and they're both onlychildren.
So they're responsible for allof their parents I mean they're

(45:30):
not in they're not in a positionwhere they're having to care for
them yet But the but if it comesto that, yeah, it's on them.
Yeah, that's tricky man.

Lindsay (45:39):
Yeah, you're thinking about like the Yeah,

Jordan (45:44):
I want them to feel like they have support from someone
else who totally understandsthem and totally understands me
and Adrienne when we're older.
I want them to be able to stillhave each other when we've gone.
You know, like, I mean, maybethey'll have their own families
and it's totally possible tofind like, you know, your adult
chosen family too.
There's definitely something tobe said for that.

(46:05):
But yeah, I think for me, justlike, for them to have each
other, and watching like, me andmy siblings grow up, and
watching Adrian and his sisterbeing so close in adult life, it
just feels, feels really valthose relationships feel really
valuable in a way thatfriendships.
It just, it's, it just doesn'treally kind, it just doesn't
really compare to a friendship.
It's just different.
Yes.

(46:25):
It's not like it's way betterthan a friendship could be or,
you know, worse or anything.
It just is, it's a differenttype of relationship.
And I want my kids to be able tohave that,

Lindsay (46:35):
yeah, yeah, that helps that helps me on my yes days for
sure

Jordan (46:41):
Thinking deep into the future.
Yeah.
And then also like as a parent,I was going to say this too, and
I totally forgot till just now,as a parent, it also like, I
think when you said the emptynesters thing, you get kind of
lonely and you miss your kids.
You're not, you're not waitingfor just one kid to give you
their time.
You have two kids, so you cankind of like dip into the time
because when they're adults andthey're in their, like, you

(47:02):
know, twenties, thirties,forties, they're going to be
busy with their stuff andthey're not going to have all
the time for you that you wantthem to.
So having two means that you getmore of their time, which is,
yeah,

Lindsay (47:12):
it was definitely taking him into that and loving
that right now.
Yeah.
I love going to Detroit.
They love coming out here.
They love traveling in between,you know, they're really in the
whole retirement.
But also loving every with everypart of it.
Yeah,

Jordan (47:29):
and you just get to see Someone develop from infancy to
adulthood twice ideally, youknow, like yeah.
Yeah a best case scenario allthings go well I know shit
happens.
But yeah, that's cool.
Like that's just really cool.
I don't know.
I love that process so far Mykids only one and a half There
will probably be days when Idon't love it as

Lindsay (47:51):
much

Jordan (47:53):
But I just find it really exciting.
I don't know.
I just, I think I really, yeah,I just love being a parent and
doing it twice feels fun andexciting.
Yeah,

Lindsay (48:03):
that's awesome.
Yeah.
I hope that you, my wish for youis like just to keep that going
and like always remind yourselfon the tough days.
Yeah.

Jordan (48:13):
Cause those days do come, it sounds all like flowers
though, I'm talking about it.
The tough times definitely docome.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Lindsay (48:19):
But as of today, I am trying for number two.
Okay.
As of

Jordan (48:26):
today.
Okay.
Yes.
So it's a yes.
Yes.
It's

Lindsay (48:30):
a yes.
It's a yes.
And I want that energy.
For now.
Yeah.
And I want that energy to behad.
When my husband and I areintimate and like, that's our
plan as of right now.
I'm hoping just to get throughlike the tough, like days, like,
and that's where I reach out forsupport, which is good and reach
out for the little reassuranceand the good stuff.

(48:51):
Yeah.
That's just like, that's my, uh,big old to do list on those
days.
Ask for help.
Yes.
Yeah.

Jordan (48:59):
Yeah, and more on that

Lindsay (49:01):
next time.
Uh huh, yeah.
We'll definitely dive into thefourth trimester.
Yeah.
Man, I wish I had

Jordan (49:08):
the book before.
Yeah, I can't wait to get intoit.
Can't wait to get into it.
Yeah, that's our book club bookfor those of you who don't
remember or didn't hear our lastepisode.
We'll be coming back in ahandful of episodes once I've
finished it to talk about, yeah,to talk about The Fourth
Trimester

Lindsay (49:25):
book.
Yes, The Fourth Trimester byKimberly Ann Johnson.
So we, speaking of a little bitof like postpartum woes, my hair
went through the trenches ofpostpartum, like crazy hair loss
all at once.
And now it's coming back likecurlier than normal.

(49:47):
Like I got lots of dark too.
Yeah.
Yeah for a while It's likefrizzier and then I also kind of
experienced what Carrie Lockerit has been experienced lately
She's a fun like social mom thatwe've talked about on here
before but it's like the dryScalp like flaky gross dandruff
dry and then greasy like rootsTo mid and then really dry ends.

(50:15):
It's a very interesting thing.
Like it's like How could yourhair be greasy when it's so like
your scalp is so dry.
So This is like a wholepostpartum thing.
And I think it has something todo with hormones Well, obviously
probably does but somethingthat's trending in the
postpartum hair world is a scalpscrub Scalp scrub.

(50:35):
And that's not necessarily likesomebody like scrubbing your
scalp with their hands like whenyou go Oh, that does sound nice.
Like, yeah.
Not like a, like going to thehair salon and somebody like
really scrubbing with theirshampoo.
Not like that.
This is like a physical scrubthat you can buy, like kind of
like a body scrub.
Oh yeah.
Or you could make from likerecipes on Pinterest.

(50:58):
Or a chemical scrub.
Which is something that's like achemical scrub.
Think of like

Jordan (51:03):
a chemical peel.
Yeah.
Yes.

Lindsay (51:06):
Yes.
And then you can use like applecider vinegar, essentially.
Would that be a chemical scrub?

Jordan (51:10):
Yes.
Oh, yeah.

Lindsay (51:12):
Okay.
So I took it upon myself to diveinto what a scalp scrub was
because as a millennial, I'mlike, what the hell is that?
Like, is it like I'm, my mind isthinking like the body scrub,
like the physical stuff.
Can you do that for your hair?
I've never even like seen thatfor your hair before.
Yeah.
Nothing like an exfoliator.
Yeah.
Um, never had seen that ever inmy life, and then I went on, so

(51:32):
I go on YouTube to like, what isthat?
Like, how do you do that?
You know, all the, all thethings.
And so, I, I did look up,there's two different kinds.
Like I mentioned, physicalscrub, there's like these
cleansing, purifying scalpscrubs that you do.
before your

Jordan (51:49):
hair wash.
So does it have like little bitsin, like the salty, sugary,

Lindsay (51:53):
granular?
Yeah, just like a, like aphysical exfoliating thing that
you can put in

Jordan (51:59):
your hair.
And it doesn't mess with likethe, I almost said stem, but
like the lengths of your hair?
It does not.
The

Lindsay (52:06):
stock.
What's it called?
The strand.
Strand?

Jordan (52:11):
That's, yep.
That's the one.
The stock.
Oh, God.
Okay.
Your hair

Lindsay (52:17):
stocks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it does not.
You just basic, you don't berunning this stuff through your
entire head of hair.
Like, you just kind of rub itand scratch it and whatever on
your scalp.
Let it sit for a little bit,wash it, double cleanse, and
then moisturize like usual.
Double cleanse like withshampoo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
the idea is to just conditionlike from mid line down.

(52:39):
Mm hmm.
So that's one, and then thechemical scrub is something I
tried and I found significanthelp with it.
Good.
So I bought these plasticbottles that you screw on, and
the screw on top is like a combthat has holes in it, so like
whatever solution you would put,like a lot of, you may have seen
like at home hair dye kitsprobably have something like

(53:01):
this, but like you can puttreatment in there and like comb
it through your hair.
So I did one tablespoon of applecider vinegar, two tablespoons
of water.
And what I did was I mixed thatup in that little plastic
bottle, screwed on this likecomb cap and brushed it through
my scalp.

(53:21):
Not like through my entire hair,head of hair, just on my scalp.
All that apple cider vinegar andthen you let it sit for 15
minutes because that stuff ischemically like hurt your skin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it helped so much withbalancing the pH of my skin.
Wild.
That's cool.
Yeah.
But there's something you needto be careful about.
Apple cider vinegar is like, youdon't want to be out in the sun,

(53:44):
right?
After having Friar.
Oh, so you gotta be like wearinga hat or like, maybe like make
sure you're scheduling that likeon like a cloudy day.
And then go out, you know, ifyou're going to do it again,
make sure like the nextfollowing day is like a
forecasted sketch, you know,forecasted cloudy day or
whatever.
If you have to be outside, but.
So, but you

Jordan (54:03):
wash it, so you wash it off.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you still have to beaware of going outside.
Oh,

Lindsay (54:09):
interesting.
So you let, I let that sit for15 minutes in my hair.
Then I did the double cleanseand then I conditioned like mid
light and down.
And then I still had to wait tobe in the sun kind of like 24 to
48 hours.
Yeah.
Your skin's just sensitive fromthat like chemical stuff on it.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
But you can buy products or youcan like easily make something
on Pinterest, which isreassuring.

(54:30):
Which is something I mean, apple

Jordan (54:31):
cider vinegar is something most people just have.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's cheap.
Yes, it is.
Because most hair care productsare not cheap.
No,

Lindsay (54:37):
but that worked out for me pretty well.
Yeah.
Scalp scrub.
Nice.
That's trending.

Jordan (54:43):
Love that.
I wonder if it's good for yourscalp even if it isn't like dry.

Lindsay (54:46):
My, it could be.
I mean, if you have like, ifyou, if you're somebody that
uses like a lot of products,yeah.
On your hair.
I would imagine it's reallygood.
Like purifying.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Jordan (54:56):
Clarifying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Scalp scrub.
Trending.
Trending now.
Alright, so then finally ourlast thing is um, our rec and
then we'll be wrapping it up.
Yeah.
Little recommendation.
I think I might have a theme tomy recommendations.
Oh, right.
Uh, it seems to be like, thingsthat you have around the house

(55:16):
that your kid's gonna reallylike, and you don't have to buy
a toy for them.
So the other day, I try to getmy kid outside for an hour every
day while the weather's kind ofstill on the fence.
we'll hopefully be doing morethan that when it's even a
little bit warmer outside, butwe've been doing an hour a day.
And it's kind of hard to keepher, like, entertained as a
little toddler because she'skind of too young to, like, kick

(55:38):
a ball around, though sometimesthat works.
Oh, sure.
You know, like, so what do wedo?
She found one day, just on herown, we had the garage door open
and she had, there's like alittle white bucket, like maybe
a two or three gallon bucket inour garage.
And she became obsessed with it.
It's just like a normal littlelike a paint bucket, like just a
bucket, like a white plasticbucket.

(55:59):
And she carries that thingaround the whole time we're
outside.
She'll find rocks and put themin her bucket and then she'll
like dump them all out andshe'll put them back in and
count them.
She likes it so much that wetook it with us when we went
down to the desert to climbbecause it was like, oh that's
perfect.
It'll keep her occupied at thecrack like no problem.
Oh that's adorable.
And it did, yeah, she loves it.

(56:20):
So Yeah, if you, yeah, so if youneed a little activity to do
with your toddler and you wantto go outside or even inside
works too, get them a littlebucket or even a bowl or
something and see what theirlittle mind comes up with to do
with it because it's, it'spretty fun.
Yeah.
And then she'll carry it aroundand be like, Oh, heavy.
Yeah.
If it's full of rocks or, you

Lindsay (56:40):
know, I just like started watering.
I watered our succulents todayand inside our house.
And my daughter saw thatwatering can and it's now in her
hand, like all day long.
And it's like, that's going tohave to come outside with us.

Jordan (56:55):
Yeah.
So she can actually use it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's cool.
It can teach them about likecontainment.
Oh, so many games.
And like weight and.
Yeah.

Lindsay (57:03):
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
Go collect like rocks only.
You can make games out of that.
Yeah.
There's a book called Play theForest Schoolway.

Jordan (57:10):
Play the Four?
Forest School Way.
Play the Forest School Way.

Lindsay (57:16):
Yes, it is called that.
Play the Forest School Way.
And it's really unique andreally cute.
So that, I wanted to get youguys that book.
Oh, cute.
I'd love it.
Yeah.
So I'll be getting that.
Um, but it's, there's one,there's one in there where you
take like a strong stick, like apretty decent sized stick and
you can wrap like burlap aroundit.

(57:38):
Oh, cool.
And then they can like go on awalk and they can collect the
feather.

Jordan (57:41):
Oh, that's cool.
Oh, that's cute.
So I've seen something similarwhere you like put tape around
their wrist and like sticky sideout and they can stick stuff on
it.
That's cute

Lindsay (57:53):
Yeah, so this is like a book that kind of reminds me of
what you're saying.
Yeah, cool finding stuff that'soutside already Making fun games
out of it.
Yeah, that's adorable.
That's kind of smart You got hera little bucket right now
because Easter's coming up youguys collect eggs or whatever do
it like

Jordan (58:11):
Easter egg hunt.
Oh my god, fun.
Yeah, I didn't even think

Lindsay (58:14):
about that.
So like she's like

Jordan (58:17):
Gonna be ready.
Oh, yeah.
She'll be way ready.
Oh, cute.
I can't wait.
You're so funny.
All right.
Yep.
That's my recommendation.
Cool.
We can wrap this up now.
Thanks for sitting with usthrough this conversation and
all of its ins and outs andemotions.
Have

Lindsay (58:33):
these conversations back and forth with your spouse.
Yeah.
Don't feel hesitant.
They're obviously on it.

Jordan (58:38):
That's such good advice.
Yeah.
I'm so

Lindsay (58:40):
glad you said that.
My husband's been on a differentpage than I have been.
But at the same time, he isgrateful for me sharing.
I hope he is.
Or he's probably like, what?
No, I wouldn't.
I wouldn't

Jordan (58:54):
work it.
No, it's important for you bothto obviously know where the
other person's at, especially ifyou're not on the same page.
Yes.

Lindsay (59:01):
Yeah, definitely talk about it.
Talk about it.
Chit chat about it.
I'm probably going to find gonethrough miscarriages and they're
just kind of having the hardtimes of Having another kid or
wanting or thinking, yeah, yeah,totally.
I'll be fine.
Something like that for myself.

Jordan (59:14):
So in the meantime, good luck trying.

Lindsay (59:17):
Thank you.
Cast and all.
Something to laugh back on.

Jordan (59:27):
Oh God.
All right.
Thanks Instagram at we have kidspodcast.
Instagram.
Is there something else on theplug?
Rate, re scribe, and review.
Re scribe?
No.
How do they say

Lindsay (59:39):
it?
Rate, subscribe, and review.

Jordan (59:42):
Yes.
If you want to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We'd like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Be our

Lindsay (59:47):
mom friend.

Jordan (59:49):
Thanks so much.
Bye.
We'll see you next time.
Later.