August 21, 2024 • 57 mins
Our first book club episode!
If you are a mom or a mom-to-be, The Fourth Trimester by Kimberly Ann Johnson is not a book to skip out on. Join us in a chat about our key takeaways, big feelings, the parts that triggered us, and little glimpses into our own experiences navigating what we feel is the wildest "trimester" of them all.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:00):
Yeah, we're expected to get back on the horse.
Oh yeah.
They're like, they
Lindsay (00:03):
offer you birth control right at six weeks.
And you're like, well, I wasn'ttalking about that horse.
You're talking about the work.
I mean, yeah.
Jordan (00:10):
Oh, I mean, you're talking about like proverbial.
Are you talking about sexualactivity?
I'm not necessarily, but that ispart of it.
Sexual activity, physical, likefitness, like bounce back, body,
bullshit, all this stuff.
Okay.
Well, hello.
(00:30):
Hi,
Lindsay (00:32):
we're back.
We're back from a break
Jordan (00:35):
listeners might not know, but we took a little bit
of a hiatus from recording
Lindsay (00:40):
where it's summertime.
It's hot as balls.
Yeah, this heat wave we've beenhaving is crazy.
It's been like two weeks now ofheat.
Jordan (00:49):
Oh boy,
Lindsay (00:50):
this is like the one summer of all summers we decided
not to go back to the Midwest.
Regretting that now.
We're regretting that now.
Yeah, Never really realized howmuch that helps us get through
The
Jordan (01:02):
summer heat.
Yeah here.
I mean, it's been particularlybad as well I would say like
this year it feels like it'sbeen crazier than years past.
It's crazy.
But yeah, so it's July everyone.
It's the middle of July.
Now we haven't recorded since Ithink our last episode we
recorded was in February.
What?
Yeah.
I thought it was March.
Maybe.
(01:23):
I don't know.
Maybe it was March.
Whoa.
It could have been March.
I just remember.
I've man, February feels like itwas February.
Huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's probably a listener outthere like, I literally just
finished that episode and itsays February 6th or something.
It's been a while.
(01:44):
We've been busy.
Yeah, we've been
Lindsay (01:46):
really busy.
And we had a hell of a busy fewmonths ahead of us.
Oh God.
Jordan (01:51):
Yep, we do.
So what have you been up to?
Let's do a quick little like,what have you been up
Lindsay (01:55):
to since February or March?
Yeah, so we went this spring.
I almost have to like pull up myGoogle calendar.
Jordan (02:03):
Yeah, I don't remember yesterday Well, I'm like the
last few months.
Lindsay (02:06):
Okay so I'm just gonna start in May because that's my
furthest back I can go.
We went and did family photos InMoab.
And then following weekend, Iwent with you to St.
George, and we did this reallyfun mom meet up yeah, that was
really cool.
One of the funniest things I'lljust never get over is you,
myself and one other mom had theyoungest children.
(02:29):
I think her son's two and usthree could not.
Keep up with the nightlife.
Oh yeah.
Of the moms that are olderbecause they're back into their
nightlife again now that theirkids are older.
They're back up.
They're back to staying up lateand socializing.
Yeah.
Dude, you and I couldn't hang.
I stayed.
(02:49):
You were, you did well.
I did pretty well, but.
I had to recover the fuckingrest of the weekend.
Yeah, that was rough.
And then into like the Mondayand Tuesday, just from one night
staying up to 2 a.
m.
Jordan (03:02):
Was it, it wasn't even 2, I don't think.
I don't know.
I'm pretty sure it was like 12,I thought it was like 12.
It was just
Lindsay (03:08):
so funny, it just felt like, kind of like college again
because we used to bed early.
Some moms like went out and theycame back way late.
Yeah.
And it was just, it was so funnybecause it was like, Wow, it's
so interesting how theirnightlife is back and ours are
not quite there yet.
Not there yet.
I never, if I'm being honest,
Jordan (03:26):
I've never really had a nightlife.
Yeah, I definitely did.
Whoops.
Lindsay (03:33):
Oh lord.
Um, so that was really fun.
And then, What else happened?
Uh, June, I don't know.
Father's Day.
I don't know.
Jordan (03:45):
Oh, we had family in from Oh yeah, you did have
family in for a chunk of time.
Lindsay (03:49):
Yeah.
And I think I'd just been busy,homestead y.
Yeah.
Life.
Gardening, composting, quilting.
Yeah.
Prepping.
Watching a toddler.
90 percent of the time
Jordan (04:02):
commitment really.
Yes.
Lindsay (04:04):
Yeah.
Yep.
And then now we're here in Julyand we skipped our summer trip.
We have a big summer trip inAlaska coming up in a few weeks
and then we have a big fall tripin the Midwest.
So we're going back this fallfor a longer period of time.
So I have a really busy fallahead.
Jordan (04:23):
Yeah, so we're trying to get some episodes in.
Lindsay (04:26):
And then it's Christmas and then it's New Year.
And then it's Christmas.
Stop.
Oh my
Jordan (04:30):
gosh.
You know it's
Lindsay (04:33):
true.
Every time it's Halloween I'mlike, it was just 4th of July.
Yeah.
Jordan (04:39):
Damn.
Tell me what
Lindsay (04:40):
you've been up to.
Jordan (04:41):
Yeah, so I can scroll back to February.
I don't, I didn't do muchbetween then and now.
but yeah, so, uh, oh, this iswhy I think it was February that
we recorded last because it wasthe end of February that I found
out that I was pregnant.
Lindsay (04:57):
Oh, I mean, I know
Jordan (04:59):
that you are right,
Lindsay (05:01):
but I didn't know, I mean, I, I probably would have,
uh, you probably told me, but Idon't remember it being the end
of February,
Jordan (05:07):
the end of February.
So yeah.
Anyway, it was right around thenand the February kind of March
time.
Yeah.
Hi, I'm pregnant.
Yeah.
Yep.
I'm like 25 weeks pregnant, nowand due end of October.
So I've been keeping it kind oflight.
I've still been working, um, mynormal work schedule and work's
been super crazy busy.
(05:28):
Yeah.
So yeah, I guess my April wasfamily in town.
Her mayor, June was family intown.
Yeah.
We just been crazy.
yeah.
And this pregnancy has beengoing pretty well for the most
part.
Yeah, I had a couple like car,like mild car incidents.
Other people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsay (05:49):
It's not something that you needed on your plate.
Jordan (05:50):
No, not really.
So like a couple more hospitalvisits and a little bit more
stress than I would like andthat kind of put stuff on the
back burner for me.
But it all seems to be going.
Fine, knock on wood for rightnow.
Lindsay (06:04):
When you had your daughter at the end of August, I
was like, Oh my God, this heathas got to be the worst.
And here you are kind of goingthrough the heat again.
Jordan (06:13):
Yeah, it feels worse.
It feels worse this time.
It might be because there's likesomething beautiful about
pregnancy.
where you like kind of like astime goes on, you forget it all.
Uh, yes.
Yeah.
So I, it's possible that I'mjust like, I think that happens
for a reason.
Yeah.
(06:33):
So I think we're blackingprocreate.
Yep.
Probably.
We're blacking out some of thetough stuff.
Yeah.
So I'm looking forward toblacking out some of this, but
it's, yeah, it's, I'm in a stageof my pregnancy where apart from
feeling like my joints are allabout to fall apart, I feel
pretty good day in and day out.
Which is nice.
Yeah.
But I am growing a lot fasterthan I did the first time
(06:55):
around.
I bet that's shocking.
It's crazy.
I'm looking at myself like, ohmy god, I'm pretty sure I was
this big when I was like 35weeks with, with my kid.
And now I'm like, Stretched andready to go.
Yay.
Hopefully that,
Lindsay (07:13):
hopefully this birth goes much smoother for you and
just.
Yes, absolutely.
Jordan (07:17):
I don't think we've talked about birth stories much.
Uh, we'll have to do a birthstory episode about our current
kids before I have a secondbirth story to tell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that we can totally do that.
We can compare and contrast.
Yeah.
We should do that.
Okay.
Well, we'll do that in the nextfew episodes maybe.
Cause it's a good thing for meto kind of relive the experience
(07:38):
of the birth that I did have.
It was wild and crazy.
The whole thing that like, mom'slike, Really do love to talk
about with each other.
I think it's really healing.
Yeah.
I mean, that's like one of thepoints I think in this book
we're going to talk about today,right?
Lindsay (07:51):
My new neighbor across the street from me don't know
much of her life, but her and Ijust completely opened up about
our birth stories and we couldhave talked about it forever.
That's so cool.
You wouldn't do that normallywith like a, a random person
that just moved in theneighborhood.
Or like any other like
Jordan (08:09):
big, like not traumatic, but possibly traumatic and
definitely like, Intimate superintimate event in your life.
Yeah, it's really cool to talkabout with
Lindsay (08:18):
another mom.
Yeah, that is cool Yeah, that'llbe an episode.
I think yeah, we should try thatnext or really soon
Jordan (08:24):
We should we really should because I I am coming
into the point in my pregnancywhere I am wanting to spend more
time thinking about how toprepare for the second time
around and I think a good placeto start would be to Remember
and just kind of like bring upall of those feelings from yeah
The first time.
Yeah.
And just like think to myself,okay, what went really well?
(08:44):
How did I receive support in theway that I wanted?
What didn't go as well?
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, definitely Yeah, so wementioned in previous episodes
that we're going to do like alittle book club and this is our
first little book club episode.
Yeah,
Lindsay (08:59):
we wanted, this book was important, um, just because
I wanted to see my fourthtrimester in the future a little
differently and how I connect inso many different areas of it.
And then you have a fourthtrimester coming up that you
also want to just kind of likeprepare for, prepare for
reevaluate.
And are there any changes?
(09:20):
And so this is a great way forus to just kind of
Jordan (09:23):
Do it in the way that we take, yeah.
I mean, I'm not going to saytake control.
Cause it's a situation in whichyou just simply cannot have
control, but definitely likehave feel empowered.
Yes.
I want to feel empowered.
Yeah.
Better than like, what the fuck?
Yeah.
I mean, the first time aroundyou like think you're preparing
and then like you prepare weirdthings and I don't, I don't
(09:43):
know, for me, it was like thebirth plan that I had in mind
got all wackadoo and then like,I wish that we had
Lindsay (09:49):
more, like mentorship from others that were like, yo,
you're for the fourth trimesteris coming up and that's more
really important to consider.
Here are the things.
Jordan (09:57):
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I think we got alittle bit of that.
Like we had a friend whorecommended a really nice book
that was like a postpartumhealing, um, through nutrition
book, the first 40 days, whichis a great, a great book.
It's not one we'll do a bookclub on.
It's mostly like recipes andstuff, but yeah, definitely pick
that up if you haven't had that.
Yeah, or if you have somebodywho needs support and you're not
(10:19):
sure how to give it to themafter having a kid That's a good
place to start.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah that I mean, yeahmentorship would be great.
So this book definitely is likea good Mentor in your life.
Yeah,
Lindsay (10:31):
Again, this is the book called The Fourth Trimester by
Kimberly Ann Johnson.
A lot of people are like, well,what the hell is a fourth
trimester?
What is that?
That doesn't make sense.
Your pregnancy is trimesters,right?
Three.
So the fourth one is defined asthe first 40 days after giving
birth.
Spent, resting, nurturingyourself, And how to feel for
(10:55):
your transition into motherhoodand looking past the birth plan,
which is usually like your finalthing you think about preparing.
And then it's like into thechanges that you'll be
experiencing during postpartum.
Physically, mentally,emotionally, spiritually, it's a
(11:15):
big part of your life.
And it's also to like learninghow to be physical again, how to
carry your baby and comfort andrestore your energy and rest and
nutrition.
that's basically the definitionof fourth trimester.
It's the big transition into.
Yeah, and I think that
Jordan (11:33):
it's the I think that for most of the women I've
spoken to, it's like the most,prolific of the Pregnancy
journey.
Yeah.
First trimester.
You're like in normal zone stillkind of, you can do all the
normal things.
You might feel a littledifferent and then you've kind
of remembering every once in awhile you're pregnant.
Second trimester.
You're like, Oh, my belly'sgetting bigger.
(11:54):
I can feel the kid.
Oh, I can't be outside in ahundred and five degrees.
It's literally telling a lot ofthe stuff.
Yeah.
Third trimester.
You're like.
This is uncomfy.
I'm ready to get this kid out.
I have this big athletic eventcoming up that is labor and
delivery and I need to get readyfor that.
And that kind of like, I feellike we've all been so
conditioned to be afraid of thatpart of pregnancy specifically
(12:19):
that the, like the aftermathgets sort of like missed.
Like you're all done
Lindsay (12:23):
now.
Jordan (12:24):
Yeah.
But then you go home with a babyand you're, you're healing and,
and then you even hear thingslike this.
Like I heard things like this.
The first time I was pregnant,but you know, you need to really
take care of yourself after thatdelivery, come home and make
sure that you're like in thissacred space of healing and
right.
And the nurses show you how totake care of yourself, like, you
know, vaginally and all that.
Yeah.
And breastfeeding, you get likea little bit of a glimpse into,
(12:47):
but it's just such a big changethat is like, yeah, it can be
really overwhelming.
So yeah, it's a great thing to
Lindsay (12:54):
chat about.
Yeah.
So this is something that's likedefinitely more talked about and
more common than other countriesthan the United States.
For instance, india and Japan.
A mother will literally go backto her own mother's house for
six weeks.
Wow.
She will literally like go backto maybe she doesn't have a mom
(13:16):
or she has a mother figure forsix weeks.
She will move out of her house.
And can you imagine she can be,and yeah, she is real that way.
She's relieved of all householdduties.
It's like the only literal wayto relieve yourself from
household duties is out.
So that's really crazy.
And they call that the sacredwindow.
in those two countries.
(13:36):
China has this whole thing wherethe, the duties are split
between the mother and themother in law Yeah.
Um, but they do that for like awhole month and they call it,
it's like a thing where theycall it sitting out.
So it's like all forced in othercountries.
Yeah.
In a like nice country.
Way.
I don't mean forced in likeyou're doing it this way, like,
(13:59):
I mean, I would imagine that theforce comes with that sometimes,
but they also too are likethey're, they just take it to a
whole new level of taking careof the new mom.
And then like you were talkingabout earlier, you know, The
First Forty Days is a book thathas a lot of recipes.
A lot of those recipes are likeJapanese and Chinese soups and
(14:20):
like tons of healing,ingredients.
Yeah, it's kind of Ayurvedicbased too, a lot of it.
Yeah, yeah, this is a whole kindof like new up and coming thing
to consider.
Jordan (14:31):
Well,
Lindsay (14:32):
maybe not generally.
Yeah, I think it's a renewed.
Yes.
Maybe like renewed.
This has Obviously this probablygoes back to centuries.
Jordan (14:41):
There's a long history of women being very well taken
care of and not having too highof expectations after pregnancy.
I think American culture is justgoing to say
Lindsay (14:48):
six weeks ready.
Yeah.
And you're like, not even close.
Yeah.
Jordan (14:54):
Yeah, we're expected to get back on the horse.
Oh yeah.
They're like, they
Lindsay (14:57):
offer you birth control right at six weeks.
And you're like, well, I wasn'ttalking about that horse.
You're talking about the work.
I mean, yeah.
Jordan (15:04):
Oh, I mean, you're talking about like proverbial.
Are you talking about sexualactivity?
I'm not necessarily, but that ispart of it.
Sexual activity, physical, likefitness, like bounce back, body,
bullshit, all this stuff.
Yeah.
And, and we don't think aboutlike, Oh, this is actually a
period where you're just reallymeant to be doing.
Sweet F.
A.
besides accepting help andconnecting to yourself and to
(15:27):
your, yeah, baby and, yeah.
Okay.
So let's start talking about thebook.
Uh, it's organized into kind ofthree parts.
Yes.
Yeah.
So
Lindsay (15:36):
part one, would be preparing for the fourth
trimester.
So part one, preparing forfourth trimester, creating a
sanctuary, like lovelypostpartum plan in your
household, what that looks likefor you personally, and what
that looks like with a partner.
What is it that we need duringthis fourth trimester?
extended rest is probably themost critical and ensuring thing
(15:59):
a mom can have for her long termhealth during postpartum.
So my rest, I took it the wholeway.
I relaxed every nap that she hadand I didn't do shit around the
house.
And then I just listened to mybody when it was ready to get
back into the swing of thingsand that's what I did.
So extended rest, whether thatbe, you need to look at your own
(16:20):
life and see what that lookslike, what it can look like for
you.
first and foremost, rest.
Okay.
Nourishing food.
you gotta have nourishing foodto complete the healing of your
uterus to rebuild your strength.
Cause it's going to wipe youout.
Giving birth is wiping you out.
(16:40):
Well, and even if you adopt orif you have a surrogate too,
you're going to be wiped outbecause you're caring for a
brand new baby.
It's totally important tonourish your body for strength.
Jordan (16:50):
And if you're breastfeeding, producing milk
too, yeah.
Lindsay (16:53):
Something that's easy to digest, something that's
mineral rich, warming helps, youknow, soothe the soul too.
So that's very important is tonourish yourself and nourish
your body.
Another one would be loving andcaring touch.
This I thought was reallyinteresting.
That is interesting., If you'rehome with your spouse and you're
(17:14):
taking, there's not a lot oftime for like.
Connection.
You're really just in survivalmode that first 40 days and
loving and caring touch massagework, uh, just to help flush,
you know, the limbs and optimizeand,
Jordan (17:29):
definitely especially if like in my future I during this
pregnancy.
I've been feeling very touchedout and like I don't really want
that much touch So it will be Itwould definitely need to be a
conversation where it's like, Iwill be very clear with you
about what specifically theseneeds are that I have, and then
it's also important for us toremember that our husbands have
(17:50):
needs for this as well, becauseall of our energy goes into this
new baby.
And you want to make sure thatin order to get the most support
from your husband, you also wantto make sure you're like giving
them support in the way thatthey need.
Cause I think a lot of the timeswe forget that this is a huge
transition for them too, andthey need physical contact and
(18:10):
loving physical support, uh, asmuch as we do for sure.
Lindsay (18:14):
Yep.
Um, another really interestingone was something that kind I
think Jordan and I wish we couldhave had more of with our
firsts.
And this was a presence of wisewomen around us to talk to us
about the struggles to, when youhave your first, it's a lot of
yay, yay, yay.
This is all going to be sobeautiful and so great.
(18:35):
And it really is at the end ofthe day, you know, it's all
worth it.
It's all wonderful at the end ofthe day, but you sometimes don't
want to steer a mom in the wrongdirection.
Mindset of like, dude, there'ssome hard shit ahead of your
life.
Yeah, and I think it would havebeen really cool for me to
experience like a bettermentorship of a wise women
Jordan (18:57):
I think the advice that I would give to like a new mom
is like first of all, followyour gut.
Second of all, ask, ask any momyou know, any question that you
have and ask as many of them asyou can because everyone does
approach things verydifferently.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsay (19:12):
Yeah.
So yeah, it was just interestinglike something you need during
fourth trimester is a presenceof just women to ask.
Yeah.
Um, your, um, your questionsthat you have and it doesn't
even matter if it's one or onemillion.
And to get help from, like,
Jordan (19:24):
I think women who have had babies can very, like, are
very, very good at knowing howexactly a woman who just had a
baby needs support.
Yes.
Like before I had a kid, mysister was having kids and I was
like, Oh, here's a cute littlepair of baby shoes.
I wasn't looking back.
I'm like,
Lindsay (19:43):
what the hell was I thinking?
That's not what she needed.
I look back.
I didn't know.
Like I had no clue.
Same.
I told my, I've apologized to mysister.
I've apologized to some of myfriends.
I was like, you guys, sorry.
I'm sorry.
I had no clue.
But they're like, it's, it's awhole thing.
Cause they, they were at theirpoint in their lives where they
didn't know either.
(20:04):
Yeah.
and it was just too much forthem to reach out because they
were in shock mode, survivalmode too.
And
Jordan (20:13):
yeah, so if you have kids out there and you know
somebody who's pregnant, maybejust use this opportunity to
shoot them a text and be like,Hey, I'm thinking about you.
If you need support in this orthis way, yeah, shout, shout me
out, holler at me.
Lindsay (20:28):
So I think this is the last one that she has in the
book as far as what you mightneed for a fourth trimester is
contact with nature, justconnecting with beauty.
Of the slower paced lifeoutside.
I know that that can be kind ofinteresting.
There's obviously a lot of womenthat live in cities, and it
might not feel slow pacedoutside, but finding a park and
(20:50):
just sitting in a park with yourchild and watching, like, the
bird fly from that tree to thattree, you know, that can just
like slow it down, in a, in asense.
It's not necessarily like a hikeor camping, but nursing near a
window if you're inside duringthe winter time or under the
tree or just feeding your baby.
(21:10):
You don't have to be nursing,but bathing also, too, in like
an outdoor way is kind of a wayto be connecting and slowing
down.
Is that something she said inthe book?
That's
Jordan (21:20):
so funny.
I don't
Lindsay (21:20):
remember that one.
So she mentioned something abouthaving like an air conditioner.
Herbal bath, obviously inside issomething she's all about, but
she says, if you have like ahorse troth, like if you like,
Oh, like
Jordan (21:32):
a proper bath outside.
I
Lindsay (21:34):
think I want to try that.
Jordan (21:36):
It sounds awesome.
Except that I'm having my kid inOctober.
You could have
Lindsay (21:39):
it warm and have that cool, like experience maybe of
like cooler outside and like awarm bath.
I mean, that sounds awesome.
You should try it.
I'm well up for that.
I personally loved.
Having like a 20 minute bath outor at the end of the day every
day.
Yeah, I I mean I had it helpedwith my bowels But like it also
just is like a sanctuary likelittle just to just relax.
(22:03):
Yeah, I'm water.
Yeah And this is also to likeyou're trading your screen time
you're gonna find yourself we'rein the world of screen time, yep
You're going to find yourself inscreen time a lot, um, whether
you're feeding or up at night,just trying to get back to sleep
and you don't want the TV on.
you're going to find yourself onyour phone or iPad, whatever it
is, but just kind of maybe liketrading some of that screen
(22:25):
time.
For bundling up outside if youcan for a few few minutes.
We're taking off all yourclothes if you just had a baby.
Yes.
Oh the amount of like lightclothing that I prefer when I'm
pregnant and when I'm postpartumis unreal.
It's
Jordan (22:41):
crazy.
I'm
Lindsay (22:42):
wearing very
Jordan (22:43):
little.
Lindsay (22:44):
Are you already wearing your husband's stuff?
Jordan (22:46):
Oh yeah this is his shirt.
Yeah and I'm afraid even hisshirts aren't gonna fit me by
the end of this.
Lindsay (22:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So there's some of theinteresting, cool things that
you might need, um, to setyourself up for a really nice
transition when that transitiontime is happening.
Another chapter of part one, I'mjust kind of like really making
this quick.
Preparing your body for birth.
So this would be like gettingyourself for instance, like.
(23:13):
An exercise ball to bounce onliterally for like three months.
Oh my God.
It's the only thing I could siton at the end of my pregnancy,
but stretching and notoverstretching and obviously hip
opening.
Um, you can probably chime in alittle bit.
This, I don't have much.
No, I could
Jordan (23:27):
definitely go on and on, uh, like TVA activation, deep
core muscle activation, 360degree breathing, like breathing
into your side ribs, um,abdominal pressure, Navigation,
you could say, um, there's likea lot, a lot of like work you
can do on navigating having allthat pressure inside that helps
also with labor and delivery.
(23:47):
There's pelvic floor work, whichinvolves tensing and relaxing
your pelvic floor becauseobviously we want to have a
strong pelvic floor for all thesupport, but we also want to be
able to fully relax and open ourpelvic floors for the birth.
So there's like a really bigamount of work to be done there.
I mean, yeah, the stuff you cando for your body to prepare for
(24:08):
birth kind of doesn't reallyend.
Breathing techniques, relaxationtechniques.
Lindsay (24:15):
And like, it's so crazy because a lot of those things
can help you obviously try for anatural birth and unmedicated
natural birth.
And it's wild if you'resensitive to medication, how
fast those can go out thewindow.
Jordan (24:31):
Yeah.
If I, I, what, how fast like
Lindsay (24:35):
medication can kick everything into gear faster,
you're not maybe prepared forlike contractions to be
happening so close together.
Like for me, for an example,practice, practice, practice it
all kind of quite a few of thethings that you've just
mentioned.
But then I had to be induced andI was like, Oh boy, I was not
meant, I was not, my body wasnot ready for medication at that
(24:56):
level.
And that
Jordan (24:56):
Pitocin just like really messed you up, I guess.
Yeah.
And, and either, either type ofbirth that you have, your core
gets stretched out and you doneed to do some rehabbing most
likely after you've given birth.
Uh, and the, the more work youdo beforehand, the easier the
work is to do after, bothbecause your body has been set
up for it, but also because youhave kind of already given
(25:17):
yourself the routine of doingsomething for that part of your
body.
Lindsay (25:23):
Yeah, it's easier to bounce it.
Jordan (25:24):
For sure.
Through,
Lindsay (25:25):
get through that in fourth trimester if you need a
little.
Jordan (25:28):
Yeah.
I would think so.
Yeah.
The unmedicated birth thing isinteresting.
You just said something aboutthat.
I had like a weird experiencereading this section of the book
because I, I did have aC-section and I like, like
everyone else, I didn't want aC-section and I wanted like, you
know, a vaginal birth and Irefused an epidural for a really
long time.
(25:49):
Something like 30 hours and.
Ah, I don't know.
There was like a section whereshe's talking about like the
energetic pathways, um, that,that like get disrupted when you
have certain medicationsintroduced into your system.
And like your, how your body'sability to like do what it needs
to do just doesn't like workanymore.
(26:09):
If you have a medicated birthand then like, you know, you can
imagine that a C section is likejust exacerbates that like in an
extremely big way.
Lindsay (26:17):
I want to like add, I don't know if I've shared this
with you.
Okay.
So.
I was terrified to delivernaturally because I work in the
O.
R.
and I've delivered many babiesvia C section.
Yeah.
So that was my, my normal.
Yeah.
Before having kids.
That's what you were exposed to.
But I want, but the first Csection I had ever done, and I
don't, I literally bawledbecause it was such an emotional
(26:42):
cool thing.
Wow.
And so I'm wondering if like,It's still there though.
That energy, that energy isstill there.
I wasn't prepared for myself tocry or like feel like in the
middle of work.
It was, yes, I wasn't like sad,I was just getting through it.
But I was, but I am the firstperson to hold the baby coming
(27:04):
out so the doctor can work onthe umbilical cord.
I'm still like, holy shit, itwas all happening.
And like that, it had to havebeen whole energy thing.
Cause I remember havinggoosebumps.
I remember crying.
I remember just being like, Thisis unreal, but like you have to
like still shove it down andcontinue to work.
Mm hmm go on But um, yeah, yeah,so if that was like, oh,
Jordan (27:24):
yeah, I mean, I don't doubt it like I still had like
My kid was taken away from mefor quite a while because they
were making sure that herrespiratory system was all good
because there was like somemeconium somewhere.
Did she
Lindsay (27:36):
go to your to your chest for a few minutes before
they took her?
No.
Jordan (27:40):
No, not at all.
But I still had the experienceof like, and I did mourn that
and we can talk about thateventually, but um.
But when my husband brought herin, eventually it was like, you
know, I don't know how manyminutes, God knows how many
minutes it was after she cameout of my body.
But when my husband eventuallybrought her around, like I still
had like that really intenseexperience where, you know, her
(28:00):
skin touches mine and it's justlike, yeah, the universe is just
like expanding inside of yourbody.
You're like, what's happening.
And so I do think, I mean, the,this author didn't experience a
C section.
I know a lot of C sections aretraumatic and I know a lot of
vaginal deliveries are traumaticAnd I know that that's really
important stuff for us to workthrough but there is a There is
(28:24):
out there in the world thispressure for women to have these
natural unmedicated births.
And I just want everyone to knowthat that doesn't need to be
there.
Like, and if you have a Csection or if you have
medication during your birth,you're not doing a disservice to
yourself or to your baby.
Or to your baby at the end ofthe day, you're doing what feels
(28:46):
right for you.
And that is what you should bedoing.
And if you are, if you feelpressured into a C section, I'm
super sorry.
I did for a while.
Uh, we can go into it in moredetail, but at the end of the
day, I was really congruent withthat decision because yeah, but
like, God, yeah, I don't know.
There was like a little sectionof this book that had me reeling
(29:06):
for like a full 10 hours becauseI was just like, Oh, she
doesn't, she doesn't understand.
And like, I don't know.
I don't know.
That part can be difficult forpeople who are still processing
like C sections and stuff likethat to deal with.
Lindsay (29:21):
Right, and because she also is very passionate about
having a plan, birth plan.
Someone that works in thehealthcare field, there also has
to be a plan B, C, maybe D.
For sure, yeah.
Like, it's so, it's wonderfulthat you can come up with a plan
and then you can envision thatand have that for yourself.
But you were just saying howreally important it is at the
end of it all.
(29:43):
And I can add a littlesomething.
Like, there's nothing moreimportant than having that child
with you at the end of it all.
Yeah.
Like, whether it was C section,whether it was medicated,
whether it was, you know,whatever.
When that baby is okay and withyou and touching your skin, it's
just like, like you said, theuniverse just explodes for you.
Jordan (30:04):
And I've even been around women, like, who have had
the experience of having theirkid go straight into the NICU,
which is like, yeah, it's Mindbending yeah, yeah, and even
they have had that experiencewhere the first time they get to
hold their kid It can sometimesbe months away, which I like
cracks my heart into pieces.
My mom wasn't
Lindsay (30:20):
held I don't think for the first like few months of her
life.
Jordan (30:23):
That's so wild.
That's so wild Yeah, but I stillthink that that those women get
to have that experience.
Eventually.
It's not what they want it tolook like But it does it does
sort of come so just rememberthat your journey is your own
And try not to let the pressureand the feelings of like
inadequacy get to you.
(30:44):
Cause that's something I reallystruggled with.
Yeah, that Yeah, I didn't likeit.
I don't like it.
I see it all the time and I justlike, it gets, it gets to me.
And that is some processing thatI still need to do for sure,
but, but it doesn't help to betold that like, yeah, I don't
know.
Whatever.
We'll, we'll be done with thatfor now.
We can talk about it more whenwe go over my birth story.
Yeah.
Lindsay (31:04):
Yeah.
There are definitely.
Parts of this book that cantrigger something.
For sure.
Reflect on yourself.
What are the some things youwould want to add to this list
of preparing for fourthtrimester?
Sure.
thing that you would maybe wantto add to the list is like, how
does devoted time for yourselflook Realistically for me, it
was 20 minutes in the bathtubevery single evening, you know,
(31:26):
kind of, that was devoted timefor me that I needed.
Yeah.
And then finding a personalroutine and part of your day,
making it glorious.
I've talked about that before.
Yep.
My nighttime routine.
I'm like this is going to be thebest nighttime routine I've ever
experienced in my life.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Explore what self care is goingto look like for you after you
have a baby
Jordan (31:43):
and keep it minimal.
One of the women I spoke tobefore I had my first kid was,
her advice was to To dosomething small for yourself
every day, but to like build onit.
So for the first week, the onesmall thing she did was just
simply bathe herself or shower.
And that was it.
That was the only thing she, theonly expectation she had for
herself and the only thing shewas going to do to care for
herself and just had thatdedicated thing.
(32:05):
And then the next week addedjust one thing and the next week
added just one thing.
So like you're, you're caringfor yourself, but you're not
putting pressure on yourself tolike get something.
Yeah.
Cause that can also go the otherway.
Yes.
Yeah.
Lindsay (32:18):
Yeah.
You can find yourself like kindof, if you're trying to do it
all, you're going to startfeeling like a failure that you
can't get it all done.
You're going to be
Jordan (32:25):
tired.
Yep.
Lindsay (32:26):
Yeah, totally.
All right.
Jordan (32:27):
So bring us into part two, part two gets into the meat
of like the, second.
So, yes.
So
Lindsay (32:34):
part two is savoring this fourth trimester time, not
surviving it, not trudgingthrough it.
Okay.
Really savoring it.
So learning how to shift yourmindset on your relationship
with your physical body, how torebuild it.
Restoring your vitality and likewho you are and what you've just
done and how empowering that is.
(32:54):
Yeah, like processing the wholejourney.
You're gonna feel like crap whenyou get out there.
Yeah.
You can easily just get intothat slumber of feeling that way
and be stuck there.
Especially when you're in themiddle of the winter time.
Yeah.
And you can't like get sunlightto make you feel better.
Whatever.
You're gonna be quite emotional.
I've never experienced emotionlike, like I did.
(33:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, unfortunately I just alsohad some other factors that
brought in my emotions to bekind of wild, but, you're going
to experience yourselfemotionally like, Oh yeah.
Snapping maybe.
I remember, I remember
Jordan (33:30):
it was like both extremes for me and it was like
all, I felt like I was feelingevery single feeling that there,
that existed in the world all atonce.
Like all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's such a weird experience.
Lindsay (33:43):
So this part of the book is just like really
savoring that and likeunderstanding, okay, I'm really
going through these emotions,for example, for a reason, my
body's hormonally changing.
Yeah.
Um, and then we just brieflydiscussed a little bit about
owning our birthing experience.
No matter what that birthingexperience is, is owning it and
totally sinking into it andbeing like this had to go this
(34:05):
way for quite the reason.
Mm hmm.
And.
I'm moving forward with thatreason.
Yeah,
Jordan (34:10):
and she does talk, one of the things I really liked to
kind of contrast the part that Ididn't like, um, was her, her
talking about that exact thing.
I really liked when she saidit's really healing to share
your birth story, to write downyour birth story and journal
about it, to talk with yourpartner about it.
Yeah, and what
Lindsay (34:30):
theirs was too.
Yeah, how,
Jordan (34:31):
what their experience of your birth story was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that that sectionwas one of the better ones for
me.
I think that she also even talksabout like moving the energy
through your body.
If you feel like you have somestuck energy after labor and
delivery, because weirdly, I didkind of feel that, like, I felt
like.
I had this need to move energydown through like your birthing
(34:55):
canal.
Kind of.
Maybe not my birthing canal.
It was just like energy thatfell stuck around my pelvic
floor that I, I can't describeit.
I'm not like that way?
No.
By chance?
Okay.
No.
It was just for like a handfulof months after I had my, had my
kid.
Yeah.
Lindsay (35:10):
Yeah.
I guess that kind of stopped forme after I started, stopped
pumping.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was having an issue.
Yeah, I do just was not like,yeah.
And I was like, I brought up,dude, I feel like my left side
is stuck.
Yeah.
You're like, you know what?
I'm speaking of that.
Yeah.
Jordan (35:25):
This feels stuck for me too.
And she has some really cooldifferent ways that you can
process that kind of stuckenergy.
And it's a little bit, it's alittle bit out there, but this
is like a section of my lifewhere I'm happy to go out there
with my imagination.
Run around with it a little bit.
So if you're interested in that,I would definitely check out
that section of this book inpart two.
Yeah.
Lindsay (35:45):
I would say it was like literally like one of the most
important parts.
Part three, part threeexperience.
Yeah.
Like savoring the fourthtrimester because now you're in
it.
Yeah.
And just accepting it all forwhat it is.
Yeah.
It's so, that's part of the bookwas like mind blowing for me.
Jordan (36:04):
What was your like biggest.
What hit you the hardest in thissection?
Owning my birthing experience.
Oh yeah?
Lindsay (36:10):
Interesting.
Yeah, because I still, I'm stilltrying to get through the shock
of the medications frominduction.
Mhm.
And I'm like, man, I reallydon't want meds in my body or
man, I like for the next time.
Yeah.
So I'm finding myself.
What about
Jordan (36:24):
like epidural?
How do you feel about that fornext time?
Do you know?
I will do that.
I don't, I don't mind that.
Lindsay (36:28):
Okay.
Pitocin was like a whole newlevel for me.
Okay.
Just kicked everything so fast.
And I was nervous.
It was too fast for my daughter.
Yeah.
I was in there just like, yeah,it's interesting.
Jordan (36:40):
Yeah.
I can't wait to figure out howthis next one's going to go.
It's so wild to think about howdifferent it could, it could be.
Lindsay (36:48):
Yeah.
I would probably do a little bitwork on, balancing my emotions,
but my, some of my outsidefactors need to be different.
Jordan (36:57):
Yeah.
I like, yeah.
So, and you never know what'sgood.
Like you have to also giveyourself credit and, and
flexibility in that.
I think you have to giveyourself a lot of grace for
emotion balancing and justunderstand that you're not going
to get it right.
Or it's not going to feelbalanced or whatever, like,
yeah, just grace.
Lindsay (37:15):
She talks a little bit about deepening intimacy and I
don't know if this has like an,I don't know.
I just come from like a lifewhere I think of the word
intimacy is like sexual.
That's cool.
Never really think of it as liketouch.
And I came from, um, fromprobably at household that
didn't show just hugging andtouching as a way of intimacy
either.
but I, rediscovering intimacywould be like, I might need a
(37:39):
hug more often, or I might needthat massage more often, like
light touch massage.
So that's something I'llprobably discuss with my husband
about like for next time too,and Yeah, this was a big part of
the book for, for myself.
She,
Jordan (37:56):
yeah, she talks about another really cool thing.
If you're feeling like you'reworried about the connection
between you and your partner, oryou want to prioritize the
connection between you and yourpartner, if you have a partner
around, this section's reallyhelpful.
Really interesting.
She provides like a fewdifferent, really cool ways of
going into like how to approachfinding that connection.
And one of them is sharing thebirth story.
(38:17):
And then there were a couple ofreally simple, quick ones, like
just like laying in bed togetherand looking at each other,
looking into each other's eyes,like little things you just
wouldn't do, especially not in apostpartum period that I do
think are really important.
So if you have a partner, that'sa great section to get to.
If you don't have a partner, Iwould just recommend skipping
it.
Yeah.
Lindsay (38:37):
Okay, so Part 3 is Beyond.
Beyond the Fourth Trimester.
Bye bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye bye.
This comes with accepting theamount of time, I think.
Jordan (38:47):
That it takes to get back to some sort of level of
this is normal for me now.
Body.
Goddamn.
Lindsay (38:53):
Maybe your own personal sexuality, whether that's solo
or with someone.
Yeah.
Discovering even like, the typeof mom you foresee yourself
being in your child's life.
And how you want to be andfollowing your, following your
true like gut feeling andinstinctions first, like they're
(39:16):
going to have so many opinionsand so many angles coming at you
of how to parent.
And you're going to have a lotof people that are generations
ahead of you saying you're notdoing it right.
Or this, this, this, this, this,this.
Not as much as Lindsay wantedthose mentors around.
It turned out I didn't reallywant them around.
Jordan (39:38):
I'm just kidding.
It turned out I
Lindsay (39:39):
really just wanted to be, continue my independent
self.
Yeah.
No, I'm totally joking.
It was great, but I'm just socomfortable in my independence
that
Jordan (39:51):
No, but, and, and also like there are, there, there is
a big difference between someonewanting to give you help and
someone telling you how to dosomething.
Yeah.
Very, yeah.
Very true.
And you'll be able to spot thedifference.
Yes.
And feel it for yourself.
Lindsay (40:04):
Yeah.
You can
Jordan (40:05):
make your
Lindsay (40:05):
own judgments.
You will feel that internally.
Very much so.
Uh huh.
Um, so part three, beyond thefourth trimester is really like
just kind of seeing everythinginto the future.
This is where the time comes.
It's important that you returnto your exercise in sexuality in
thoughtful and informed ways.
For the rest of your life, forthe rest of your life.
(40:28):
So rediscovering your body,there are some moms that feel
like postpartum is 10 yearslong.
Yeah,
Jordan (40:32):
man.
Rediscovering your body is areally cool section.
I really liked that one becauseI was so super surprised at the
way my body felt when, when Iwas pregnant the first time.
And even now, like just thefeeling of looseness in my
joints, I do a lot of yoga and Ido a lot of climbing and my
joints are very important to meand I use them a lot.
Yeah.
And they feel very differentdoing these different poses and
(40:55):
things.
I remember being like Way beyondsix weeks postpartum with my
first kid and realizing that Istill didn't even feel like I
could do like a simple positionlike upward dog because my core
muscles still feel so weird.
Yeah, sure.
And I remember thinking it tooklike six months or something to
get back into my normal, likeyoga practice, even though I was
doing it often during
Lindsay (41:16):
that six month period of time.
Did you find yourself like alittle bit of judgment?
Jordan (41:20):
I was pretty, I was actually pretty good, I think,
about not being too judgmental.
I think that there might havebeen days where I was like,
damn, I really just want to feelstrong again.
Or like, damn, I just reallywant to do this pose again.
Or like maybe a little bitannoyed, but not like
judgmental.
But I can definitely see itslipping into a judgmental
space, especially if you don't,like, I'm a little nervous about
(41:40):
that this second time becauseI'm like, when am I going to do
a yoga practice?
Yeah.
And getting that like workedinto my day might be a lot
trickier now that I have twokids with nap schedules to
coordinate in order to find timefor that.
You know what I mean?
So yeah.
Maybe this time it'll bedifferent, but I do think I was
good about giving myself thatgrace And I think that yeah, you
(42:03):
I was told by another woman likeyou've got to give yourself at
least three months grace Yep,and I was like, I'm glad to hear
that because you just hear
Lindsay (42:10):
six weeks.
Jordan (42:11):
Yes.
You're just here six weeks forsex You just hear six weeks for
and I didn't have my sex driveback after six weeks No.
Not
Lindsay (42:20):
even a little bit.
My doctor was like, are youready?
Yeah.
Are you ready for birth control?
Because you're going to need it.
You're probably going to startovulating again.
And My husband's not doing that.
I'm having sex.
Jordan (42:29):
Nope.
You're wrong.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Yeah.
So, and maybe, yeah, that'sdefinitely different for
everyone too, but I think it'sreally common for women to have
very decreased sex drives after.
Yeah.
In that postpartum phase.
And I think that that's anotherthing, grace, and I hope you
(42:51):
don't feel like you have to doit for your husband's sake.
Yeah.
He'll live through the period ofa little drought.
Yeah.
Yeah, you will.
Lindsay (42:59):
This is a huge, like, you have to remind yourself.
She tells, says you've remindyourself that you're in the
middle of a huge monumentalprocess that is probably longer
than you anticipated.
Yes.
And so hearing that, like, giveyourself three months, like this
whole six week thing, I wouldsay like the way I felt during
my
Jordan (43:18):
yoga practice, I would say six months and I know I had
a C section, so maybe it was alittle longer, but like, yeah.
Yeah, six months before youstart judging yourself and don't
judge yourself even after thatbecause you're doing your best.
Lindsay (43:29):
Yeah
Jordan (43:31):
I thought one section, uh one little part in that
section that I found What's thatjust
Lindsay (43:35):
doing
Jordan (43:35):
it safely too.
Oh safely.
Definitely Yeah, I had someadvice early on that was like
from a another strong femaleClimbing friend of mine and she
said my biggest regret You Wasgetting into doing harder
exercises than my body couldhandle too quickly.
And I felt like my healingprocess was totally destroyed
because of it.
And I was like, whoops, scaredabout that.
(43:57):
Yeah, duly noted.
I will not do anythingstrenuous,
Lindsay (44:00):
right?
For some reason I had thisthought that I had to get so
many steps in a day.
Um, actually, we're just goingto start around the block.
Jordan (44:08):
Yeah.
And you have the rest of yourlife to get those steps in.
Don't even stress.
One thing I really liked in thissection was there was a part
that I found really interestingand it's an exercise that I want
to try.
Oh, um, is it the sexuality one,the mother one?
Oh no, it's not extra, an actualphysical exercise.
Are
Lindsay (44:25):
you talking about possibly, um, just finding like
the pelvic floor imagery?
No, but that is good too.
Yeah.
Where you like, imagine like aladybug.
Did you read that part?
I
Jordan (44:36):
remember it, but I've heard so many different pelvic
floor analogies.
Okay.
My favorite pelvic floor analogyis, uh, I got this one from a
girl called Nikki Bergen, Ibelieve she's on at the bell
method on Instagram.
She's awesome.
her, her analogy for liketightening the pelvic floor is
to imagine there's like, allthree of your openings.
Your exterior anal sphincter,your vagina, and your urethra.
(45:00):
Imagine there's like a marble atyour anus, a rectum.
Rectum's a nicer word.
There's a marble at your rectum.
I guess I have to cue that in.
I like a blueberry at yourvagina and like a flaxseed at
your urethra.
And imagine you're like tryingto like grab all of them and
like, Oh, wow.
Lindsay (45:20):
That's interesting because I've only really thought
about like kegels.
I
Jordan (45:24):
know.
And that's like the problem thata lot of people have.
Yeah.
There's so much to get into withpelvic floor stuff, but yeah,
the pelvic floor stuff's cool.
No, what I was going to say is,um, There's an exercise that I
want to do, it's like a writtenexercise where she says, write
mother in one column and writesexuality or whatever in another
column and like, free write asmany things that describe that
(45:46):
thing in your brain as you can.
Her describing is very well.
Lindsay (45:50):
Yeah.
No, but her writing cues, uh,literally from each person.
Chapter
Jordan (45:56):
are really cool,
Lindsay (45:57):
really cool.
Yeah.
Jordan (45:59):
Yeah.
Because she talks about how itcan be hard to like, feel like a
sexual being and also feel likea mother and hold those two in
the same body.
Lindsay (46:06):
And
Jordan (46:07):
I have found that like, especially like with my boobs
and stuff, like they're now liketools for breastfeeding.
They used to be something myhusband really enjoyed, but
like, I don't want him anywherenear me.
It's hard to even like, for meto like, look at myself in the
same way that I used to likesexually, it does get very
convoluted and confusingafterwards.
(46:27):
Very much.
And your body feels waydifferent.
Like during pregnancy, I reallystruggle with sex.
Like I actually think it's,everything just doesn't feel the
same.
Like the things that worked foryou before, like suddenly I'm
like, I don't I feel like ateenager again trying to figure
out how to get off.
Yes.
It's so weird.
Lindsay (46:45):
And like, you're like, this doesn't normally make me
out of breath.
Yeah.
Why are we?
Yeah, that too.
Like, I wanted to keep going,but now I'm distracted because
I'm out of breath or like,distracted because I I feel like
my
Jordan (46:59):
parts are just rearranged and it's like, just
different.
Things are being Alsodistracting.
Yeah.
It's very weird.
Weird.
It's a very weird experience.
So I hope that you, uh, my bestadvice for that is to try and
have as open communication withyour partner as you can.
That's something I'm working onpersonally is just being
comfortable saying this feelsdifferent to what I'm used to.
(47:23):
It's not like it's you, mybody's just changing.
Let's try and, let's try andexplore different things, you
know.
Try stuff like that.
A lot of people don't feel comfytalking with their partners
about sex, but now's a good timeto start if you, and you can use
this
Lindsay (47:37):
as an excuse
Jordan (47:38):
if you don't feel comfortable.
Lindsay (47:40):
Yeah.
Jordan (47:40):
Good time to start.
So that's something I reallyliked from that section too.
Yeah.
You could even like referenceour podcast.
Lindsay (47:46):
Yeah, go for it.
Okay.
So this part of the book isreally neat.
She has like a conclusion, thenshe has acknowledgements and
then she does like the sectionof appendix where It's like a
guide, a guide that likequestions that you can really
start visualizing how this goesall down for you.
(48:07):
So,
Jordan (48:08):
so it's like a sanctuary, like a postpartum
what you want that to look like.
Lindsay (48:17):
What do you want the first two weeks and then the
first month.
Like what do those actually looklike as far as just the visitor
section goes?
And then rest.
What are the obstacles aroundrest?
Obviously, toddler.
Jordan (48:30):
Obviously
Lindsay (48:30):
having a
Jordan (48:30):
toddler
Lindsay (48:31):
at home is an obstacle to rest.
Yeah, so just discussing thatwith your partner.
What's another one?
what are the ways you canaddress those?
My husband and I are in couplestherapy.
We've been in it for a littlewhile and we absolutely love it,
but there's a something, I don'tknow if you and your spouse
experience this, but a lot ofparents experience this short
term communication.
Short term communicationobviously comes when you are
(48:54):
like parenting together and youhave one child in between you
and you just got to get to thepoint a lot quicker and it can
come off real harsh or it cancome off too quick or too brash
and all of a sudden there's somefeelings and emotions going on.
Yeah.
And so, how can you address Theway you need to rest without
saying, Oh, I need to be leftthe fuck alone.
(49:16):
Yeah.
You know, you might be feelingthat with your hormones and your
emotions and everything, butreally sitting down and figuring
out how you can address that topeople around you is good.
how do you manage visitorsaround resting time?
So, or in general, we.
So for instance, just forexample, we have family that
(49:37):
lives out of town.
They're all gonna be visitingthis area when we have a child.
So we've thought, okay, we'regonna have to set like probably
time frames.
Where they can come into thehouse and where they need to
leave you alone for a bit.
So that's a great way to like,that's, that would be like an
example of an answer for thatpart.
And then she's got like food,three, what are three balanced
snacks that you should alwayshave in the household?
(50:00):
This is just a really great wayto really foresee your fourth
trimester and how to plan it andjust a really nice way for sure
Jordan (50:06):
Speaking of yeah, like for me the fourth trimester
planning while I'm pregnant isall about getting food in the
house And all about getting myhouse just like clean and tidy
So when you walk into a room, soyou don't to think about that
should think about like clutter
Lindsay (50:19):
like distracted finding your tribe who can you really
call to tell you how you'rereally feeling?
You would obviously be thatperson for me here for that.
Who can you trust your bait?
Who can you trust to take yourbaby?
If you need like a walk whileyou're a spouse while you
Jordan (50:36):
need to take care of your baby.
Yeah.
And then
Lindsay (50:39):
you're wider.
Having an idea of who yourwider, tribe is, is like, yeah,
like your acupuncturist orOBGYN, midwife, housekeeper,
night nurse, distant family,
Jordan (50:51):
other friends.
Lindsay (50:52):
Yeah.
And then another really goodone.
What brings you joy?
Music, movement, singing,watching some like comforting TV
show.
Yeah.
A little self care.
Yeah.
postpartum relationship plan.
How do you deal with stress?
How does he deal with stress?
He or she?
How do you deal with stress?
what do you commit to in yourrelationship once you have a
baby?
(51:12):
So what is something you guysare going to commit to?
Jordan (51:15):
Like what like daily or weekly strategy.
Lindsay (51:17):
Yeah
Jordan (51:19):
Dividing the household chores.
You guys do this.
Yeah, we do.
But we're going to probably doit, we might have to do it
differently for the first likemonth.
Yeah.
Most part I don't want to do asmuch as I currently do.
I don't want to go to the store.
Yeah.
Lindsay (51:32):
Exactly.
So yeah, I could probably bethat per, you know, person if
your husband can't do it or I'mout and about or whatever.
Totally.
A good thing to have.
Yeah.
we talked about essential foodsand snacks.
Mm-Hmm.
uh, she's got a list of all likethe things that are really
helpful, which is really cool.
You don't really see this kindof information from your, from
your Western medicine doctors.
(51:53):
They're not giving you a list oflike nutritious foods.
Here's some nuts that are verylike great during healing.
They're not doing that.
So this is kind of a nice way toresearch that and like what
grains are good and whatbeverages and liquids are good.
And she's got some recipes onthe back which are great too.
I have my recipes that I reallylike that worked for me that I
have under my belt.
(52:13):
So I'm good with that.
Like,
Jordan (52:14):
yeah, I'd say stock your freezer with soups.
Yeah.
Easy digestible foods was it forme.
Yeah.
I'm definitely looking forwardto going through all of those,
especially with.
Uh, my husband and just makingsure we're on the same page.
It's also just like nice becauseyou kind of get into this point
in your pregnancy where you'relike, I'm ready to start
preparing, but I, I know there'sonly so much prep I can do by
(52:35):
myself.
And I really want to starttalking about this with my
partner.
Cause even, especially with justtalking about another kid in the
house, like you just don't maketime for that so much, or at
least we haven't.
So that'll give us a good, likejust jumping off point.
I'll just be like, we, I havethis thing I want us to do
together.
And then it's like, yeah.
It gives us the framework for anentire conversation.
Yes.
(52:55):
Which is really nice for twotired parents who don't want to
try and have a conversation toshop their own bags.
I know that sounds crazy, butI'm looking forward to
Lindsay (53:03):
that.
It's all just like, like I said,this book is beautiful and
wonderful and go, I say go intoit with a very open mind.
Yes.
Because this is a really hottopic.
How it can fit.
It can
Jordan (53:14):
be triggering.
And it can also be reallyuseful.
Yeah, I like, I was a little bittriggered by that one section,
but otherwise I really found alot of value in the book as a
whole, even in that one section.
Cause it is, that was thesection that triggered
Lindsay (53:28):
me as well.
Yeah.
Just because even though Ihadn't had one C section
delivered hundreds of babies viathat way and it was just fine.
And yeah.
Jordan (53:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, just keep that in mind.
But ultimately, uh, yeah, areally good read.
I definitely recommend it.
I know you've said that youwould read this even if you were
a mom who wasn't planning onhaving any more kids, because it
can help you process the wayyour whole pregnancy birth and
postpartum period went.
Lindsay (53:55):
Yeah,
Jordan (53:56):
absolutely.
So yeah, check it out if youdidn't read it already to follow
along with us.
Have a little peek in that bookfourth trimester.
It's a good one.
All right.
Well, that went on for likequite a while.
So let's wrap it all up.
I have, I feel like we shouldstill do a recommendation.
I have, I have a good rec fortoday.
(54:16):
So I have been, obviously beforethe July times just came in one
and we're in the middle ofsummer where we're having
barbecues, getting at friendshouses all the time.
and.
There's something in my lifethat I've been missing a lot
that we used last summer and mykid's just a little too big for
it now.
And that is a like pop and gohigh chair.
(54:37):
Like eating high chair.
Oh, yeah.
So I have the, tell me, wait,
Lindsay (54:43):
what's it look like?
I don't know.
Jordan (54:44):
You have one.
Oh, the little, the little likeportable high chairs, like a
travel booster high chair thathas like a little, Hi, so it's
the summer, the one I havespecifically, there are
obviously tons of these, butit's the summer infant pop and
sit portable high chair.
Lindsay (55:04):
It looks like a little lawn chair.
Yeah,
Jordan (55:06):
so if your kid isn't super big yet and they're high
chairing and you're going topeople's houses or going camping
or going on a trip and you don'twant to bring a high chair, this
thing is the
Lindsay (55:16):
best.
The funnest part for them tohave, like, they love sitting in
that, having a snack outside.
My kid
Jordan (55:21):
loved it.
Yeah, I'm really sad that thatdoesn't work now because we're
in this awkward stage where likeshe's not big enough to sit at a
table.
She's like a little too messy tosit on the floor and eat.
Yeah.
I just missed that thing.
So if you don't have one, yeah,of course I have it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'll use it for kid numbertwo next summer.
(55:44):
Yeah.
Cause that's a good,
Lindsay (55:45):
it'll be good timing for him to use that.
Yep.
Totally.
So yeah, she'll have to get likea little toddler full, like a
lawn chair.
Jordan (55:54):
Yeah.
I should get her one of thoseactually.
That'd be cute.
Or maybe they make a biggerversion of this.
I just haven't yet head up toshields and
Lindsay (56:00):
just kind of look and see what's on the shelf and
then.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Let's see what's around.
Yeah.
Out now.
Anyway,
Jordan (56:07):
check that out.
Enjoy your summer barbecues.
That much more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's all I got.
That's really fun.
Cheers.
Cool.
Lindsay (56:14):
Cool.
All right.
So we talked about, uh, nexttime we're probably going to
discuss.
Oh, is that in my mind?
We had been
Jordan (56:21):
talking about birth planning, but well, birth
stories, like our birth stories,which we can totally share.
It might not be next time, but Ithink soon, um.
I think that'd be cool.
Yeah.
I do too.
I have so many things that mykid's going through right now,
like transitioning to a toddlerbed and potty training and lots
of really, really big topics.
(56:42):
So these will all be coming upreally soon because we're in
the, in the throes of, yeah.
Like capable toddler hood.
And
Lindsay (56:48):
that's like coming up for me.
I'm four months behind you.
Yeah.
With our daughter and that's all
Jordan (56:54):
approaching.
So we need to get to recordingsome more episodes, which we
will do.
Um, in the meantime, if you'dlike to give us a follow, we are
at wehavekidspodcast onInstagram.
Please feel free to subscribe toour podcast.
Like us.
Lindsay (57:09):
Check out the fun website we just launched.
Yeah.
Jordan (57:13):
Leave us a little review if you feel inclined, or just
really sweet today.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Lindsay (57:21):
We'll talk to you soon.
Talk to you later.
Bye.
Yeah, we're expected to get back on the horse.
Oh yeah.
They're like, they
Lindsay (00:03):
offer you birth control right at six weeks.
And you're like, well, I wasn'ttalking about that horse.
You're talking about the work.
I mean, yeah.
Jordan (00:10):
Oh, I mean, you're talking about like proverbial.
Are you talking about sexualactivity?
I'm not necessarily, but that ispart of it.
Sexual activity, physical, likefitness, like bounce back, body,
bullshit, all this stuff.
Okay.
Well, hello.
(00:30):
Hi,
Lindsay (00:32):
we're back.
We're back from a break
Jordan (00:35):
listeners might not know, but we took a little bit
of a hiatus from recording
Lindsay (00:40):
where it's summertime.
It's hot as balls.
Yeah, this heat wave we've beenhaving is crazy.
It's been like two weeks now ofheat.
Jordan (00:49):
Oh boy,
Lindsay (00:50):
this is like the one summer of all summers we decided
not to go back to the Midwest.
Regretting that now.
We're regretting that now.
Yeah, Never really realized howmuch that helps us get through
The
Jordan (01:02):
summer heat.
Yeah here.
I mean, it's been particularlybad as well I would say like
this year it feels like it'sbeen crazier than years past.
It's crazy.
But yeah, so it's July everyone.
It's the middle of July.
Now we haven't recorded since Ithink our last episode we
recorded was in February.
What?
Yeah.
I thought it was March.
Maybe.
(01:23):
I don't know.
Maybe it was March.
Whoa.
It could have been March.
I just remember.
I've man, February feels like itwas February.
Huh?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's probably a listener outthere like, I literally just
finished that episode and itsays February 6th or something.
It's been a while.
(01:44):
We've been busy.
Yeah, we've been
Lindsay (01:46):
really busy.
And we had a hell of a busy fewmonths ahead of us.
Oh God.
Jordan (01:51):
Yep, we do.
So what have you been up to?
Let's do a quick little like,what have you been up
Lindsay (01:55):
to since February or March?
Yeah, so we went this spring.
I almost have to like pull up myGoogle calendar.
Jordan (02:03):
Yeah, I don't remember yesterday Well, I'm like the
last few months.
Lindsay (02:06):
Okay so I'm just gonna start in May because that's my
furthest back I can go.
We went and did family photos InMoab.
And then following weekend, Iwent with you to St.
George, and we did this reallyfun mom meet up yeah, that was
really cool.
One of the funniest things I'lljust never get over is you,
myself and one other mom had theyoungest children.
(02:29):
I think her son's two and usthree could not.
Keep up with the nightlife.
Oh yeah.
Of the moms that are olderbecause they're back into their
nightlife again now that theirkids are older.
They're back up.
They're back to staying up lateand socializing.
Yeah.
Dude, you and I couldn't hang.
I stayed.
(02:49):
You were, you did well.
I did pretty well, but.
I had to recover the fuckingrest of the weekend.
Yeah, that was rough.
And then into like the Mondayand Tuesday, just from one night
staying up to 2 a.
m.
Jordan (03:02):
Was it, it wasn't even 2, I don't think.
I don't know.
I'm pretty sure it was like 12,I thought it was like 12.
It was just
Lindsay (03:08):
so funny, it just felt like, kind of like college again
because we used to bed early.
Some moms like went out and theycame back way late.
Yeah.
And it was just, it was so funnybecause it was like, Wow, it's
so interesting how theirnightlife is back and ours are
not quite there yet.
Not there yet.
I never, if I'm being honest,
Jordan (03:26):
I've never really had a nightlife.
Yeah, I definitely did.
Whoops.
Lindsay (03:33):
Oh lord.
Um, so that was really fun.
And then, What else happened?
Uh, June, I don't know.
Father's Day.
I don't know.
Jordan (03:45):
Oh, we had family in from Oh yeah, you did have
family in for a chunk of time.
Lindsay (03:49):
Yeah.
And I think I'd just been busy,homestead y.
Yeah.
Life.
Gardening, composting, quilting.
Yeah.
Prepping.
Watching a toddler.
90 percent of the time
Jordan (04:02):
commitment really.
Yes.
Lindsay (04:04):
Yeah.
Yep.
And then now we're here in Julyand we skipped our summer trip.
We have a big summer trip inAlaska coming up in a few weeks
and then we have a big fall tripin the Midwest.
So we're going back this fallfor a longer period of time.
So I have a really busy fallahead.
Jordan (04:23):
Yeah, so we're trying to get some episodes in.
Lindsay (04:26):
And then it's Christmas and then it's New Year.
And then it's Christmas.
Stop.
Oh my
Jordan (04:30):
gosh.
You know it's
Lindsay (04:33):
true.
Every time it's Halloween I'mlike, it was just 4th of July.
Yeah.
Jordan (04:39):
Damn.
Tell me what
Lindsay (04:40):
you've been up to.
Jordan (04:41):
Yeah, so I can scroll back to February.
I don't, I didn't do muchbetween then and now.
but yeah, so, uh, oh, this iswhy I think it was February that
we recorded last because it wasthe end of February that I found
out that I was pregnant.
Lindsay (04:57):
Oh, I mean, I know
Jordan (04:59):
that you are right,
Lindsay (05:01):
but I didn't know, I mean, I, I probably would have,
uh, you probably told me, but Idon't remember it being the end
of February,
Jordan (05:07):
the end of February.
So yeah.
Anyway, it was right around thenand the February kind of March
time.
Yeah.
Hi, I'm pregnant.
Yeah.
Yep.
I'm like 25 weeks pregnant, nowand due end of October.
So I've been keeping it kind oflight.
I've still been working, um, mynormal work schedule and work's
been super crazy busy.
(05:28):
Yeah.
So yeah, I guess my April wasfamily in town.
Her mayor, June was family intown.
Yeah.
We just been crazy.
yeah.
And this pregnancy has beengoing pretty well for the most
part.
Yeah, I had a couple like car,like mild car incidents.
Other people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsay (05:49):
It's not something that you needed on your plate.
Jordan (05:50):
No, not really.
So like a couple more hospitalvisits and a little bit more
stress than I would like andthat kind of put stuff on the
back burner for me.
But it all seems to be going.
Fine, knock on wood for rightnow.
Lindsay (06:04):
When you had your daughter at the end of August, I
was like, Oh my God, this heathas got to be the worst.
And here you are kind of goingthrough the heat again.
Jordan (06:13):
Yeah, it feels worse.
It feels worse this time.
It might be because there's likesomething beautiful about
pregnancy.
where you like kind of like astime goes on, you forget it all.
Uh, yes.
Yeah.
So I, it's possible that I'mjust like, I think that happens
for a reason.
Yeah.
(06:33):
So I think we're blackingprocreate.
Yep.
Probably.
We're blacking out some of thetough stuff.
Yeah.
So I'm looking forward toblacking out some of this, but
it's, yeah, it's, I'm in a stageof my pregnancy where apart from
feeling like my joints are allabout to fall apart, I feel
pretty good day in and day out.
Which is nice.
Yeah.
But I am growing a lot fasterthan I did the first time
(06:55):
around.
I bet that's shocking.
It's crazy.
I'm looking at myself like, ohmy god, I'm pretty sure I was
this big when I was like 35weeks with, with my kid.
And now I'm like, Stretched andready to go.
Yay.
Hopefully that,
Lindsay (07:13):
hopefully this birth goes much smoother for you and
just.
Yes, absolutely.
Jordan (07:17):
I don't think we've talked about birth stories much.
Uh, we'll have to do a birthstory episode about our current
kids before I have a secondbirth story to tell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that we can totally do that.
We can compare and contrast.
Yeah.
We should do that.
Okay.
Well, we'll do that in the nextfew episodes maybe.
Cause it's a good thing for meto kind of relive the experience
(07:38):
of the birth that I did have.
It was wild and crazy.
The whole thing that like, mom'slike, Really do love to talk
about with each other.
I think it's really healing.
Yeah.
I mean, that's like one of thepoints I think in this book
we're going to talk about today,right?
Lindsay (07:51):
My new neighbor across the street from me don't know
much of her life, but her and Ijust completely opened up about
our birth stories and we couldhave talked about it forever.
That's so cool.
You wouldn't do that normallywith like a, a random person
that just moved in theneighborhood.
Or like any other like
Jordan (08:09):
big, like not traumatic, but possibly traumatic and
definitely like, Intimate superintimate event in your life.
Yeah, it's really cool to talkabout with
Lindsay (08:18):
another mom.
Yeah, that is cool Yeah, that'llbe an episode.
I think yeah, we should try thatnext or really soon
Jordan (08:24):
We should we really should because I I am coming
into the point in my pregnancywhere I am wanting to spend more
time thinking about how toprepare for the second time
around and I think a good placeto start would be to Remember
and just kind of like bring upall of those feelings from yeah
The first time.
Yeah.
And just like think to myself,okay, what went really well?
(08:44):
How did I receive support in theway that I wanted?
What didn't go as well?
Yeah.
That's a good idea.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, definitely Yeah, so wementioned in previous episodes
that we're going to do like alittle book club and this is our
first little book club episode.
Yeah,
Lindsay (08:59):
we wanted, this book was important, um, just because
I wanted to see my fourthtrimester in the future a little
differently and how I connect inso many different areas of it.
And then you have a fourthtrimester coming up that you
also want to just kind of likeprepare for, prepare for
reevaluate.
And are there any changes?
(09:20):
And so this is a great way forus to just kind of
Jordan (09:23):
Do it in the way that we take, yeah.
I mean, I'm not going to saytake control.
Cause it's a situation in whichyou just simply cannot have
control, but definitely likehave feel empowered.
Yes.
I want to feel empowered.
Yeah.
Better than like, what the fuck?
Yeah.
I mean, the first time aroundyou like think you're preparing
and then like you prepare weirdthings and I don't, I don't
(09:43):
know, for me, it was like thebirth plan that I had in mind
got all wackadoo and then like,I wish that we had
Lindsay (09:49):
more, like mentorship from others that were like, yo,
you're for the fourth trimesteris coming up and that's more
really important to consider.
Here are the things.
Jordan (09:57):
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I think we got alittle bit of that.
Like we had a friend whorecommended a really nice book
that was like a postpartumhealing, um, through nutrition
book, the first 40 days, whichis a great, a great book.
It's not one we'll do a bookclub on.
It's mostly like recipes andstuff, but yeah, definitely pick
that up if you haven't had that.
Yeah, or if you have somebodywho needs support and you're not
(10:19):
sure how to give it to themafter having a kid That's a good
place to start.
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah that I mean, yeahmentorship would be great.
So this book definitely is likea good Mentor in your life.
Yeah,
Lindsay (10:31):
Again, this is the book called The Fourth Trimester by
Kimberly Ann Johnson.
A lot of people are like, well,what the hell is a fourth
trimester?
What is that?
That doesn't make sense.
Your pregnancy is trimesters,right?
Three.
So the fourth one is defined asthe first 40 days after giving
birth.
Spent, resting, nurturingyourself, And how to feel for
(10:55):
your transition into motherhoodand looking past the birth plan,
which is usually like your finalthing you think about preparing.
And then it's like into thechanges that you'll be
experiencing during postpartum.
Physically, mentally,emotionally, spiritually, it's a
(11:15):
big part of your life.
And it's also to like learninghow to be physical again, how to
carry your baby and comfort andrestore your energy and rest and
nutrition.
that's basically the definitionof fourth trimester.
It's the big transition into.
Yeah, and I think that
Jordan (11:33):
it's the I think that for most of the women I've
spoken to, it's like the most,prolific of the Pregnancy
journey.
Yeah.
First trimester.
You're like in normal zone stillkind of, you can do all the
normal things.
You might feel a littledifferent and then you've kind
of remembering every once in awhile you're pregnant.
Second trimester.
You're like, Oh, my belly'sgetting bigger.
(11:54):
I can feel the kid.
Oh, I can't be outside in ahundred and five degrees.
It's literally telling a lot ofthe stuff.
Yeah.
Third trimester.
You're like.
This is uncomfy.
I'm ready to get this kid out.
I have this big athletic eventcoming up that is labor and
delivery and I need to get readyfor that.
And that kind of like, I feellike we've all been so
conditioned to be afraid of thatpart of pregnancy specifically
(12:19):
that the, like the aftermathgets sort of like missed.
Like you're all done
Lindsay (12:23):
now.
Jordan (12:24):
Yeah.
But then you go home with a babyand you're, you're healing and,
and then you even hear thingslike this.
Like I heard things like this.
The first time I was pregnant,but you know, you need to really
take care of yourself after thatdelivery, come home and make
sure that you're like in thissacred space of healing and
right.
And the nurses show you how totake care of yourself, like, you
know, vaginally and all that.
Yeah.
And breastfeeding, you get likea little bit of a glimpse into,
(12:47):
but it's just such a big changethat is like, yeah, it can be
really overwhelming.
So yeah, it's a great thing to
Lindsay (12:54):
chat about.
Yeah.
So this is something that's likedefinitely more talked about and
more common than other countriesthan the United States.
For instance, india and Japan.
A mother will literally go backto her own mother's house for
six weeks.
Wow.
She will literally like go backto maybe she doesn't have a mom
(13:16):
or she has a mother figure forsix weeks.
She will move out of her house.
And can you imagine she can be,and yeah, she is real that way.
She's relieved of all householdduties.
It's like the only literal wayto relieve yourself from
household duties is out.
So that's really crazy.
And they call that the sacredwindow.
in those two countries.
(13:36):
China has this whole thing wherethe, the duties are split
between the mother and themother in law Yeah.
Um, but they do that for like awhole month and they call it,
it's like a thing where theycall it sitting out.
So it's like all forced in othercountries.
Yeah.
In a like nice country.
Way.
I don't mean forced in likeyou're doing it this way, like,
(13:59):
I mean, I would imagine that theforce comes with that sometimes,
but they also too are likethey're, they just take it to a
whole new level of taking careof the new mom.
And then like you were talkingabout earlier, you know, The
First Forty Days is a book thathas a lot of recipes.
A lot of those recipes are likeJapanese and Chinese soups and
(14:20):
like tons of healing,ingredients.
Yeah, it's kind of Ayurvedicbased too, a lot of it.
Yeah, yeah, this is a whole kindof like new up and coming thing
to consider.
Jordan (14:31):
Well,
Lindsay (14:32):
maybe not generally.
Yeah, I think it's a renewed.
Yes.
Maybe like renewed.
This has Obviously this probablygoes back to centuries.
Jordan (14:41):
There's a long history of women being very well taken
care of and not having too highof expectations after pregnancy.
I think American culture is justgoing to say
Lindsay (14:48):
six weeks ready.
Yeah.
And you're like, not even close.
Yeah.
Jordan (14:54):
Yeah, we're expected to get back on the horse.
Oh yeah.
They're like, they
Lindsay (14:57):
offer you birth control right at six weeks.
And you're like, well, I wasn'ttalking about that horse.
You're talking about the work.
I mean, yeah.
Jordan (15:04):
Oh, I mean, you're talking about like proverbial.
Are you talking about sexualactivity?
I'm not necessarily, but that ispart of it.
Sexual activity, physical, likefitness, like bounce back, body,
bullshit, all this stuff.
Yeah.
And, and we don't think aboutlike, Oh, this is actually a
period where you're just reallymeant to be doing.
Sweet F.
A.
besides accepting help andconnecting to yourself and to
(15:27):
your, yeah, baby and, yeah.
Okay.
So let's start talking about thebook.
Uh, it's organized into kind ofthree parts.
Yes.
Yeah.
So
Lindsay (15:36):
part one, would be preparing for the fourth
trimester.
So part one, preparing forfourth trimester, creating a
sanctuary, like lovelypostpartum plan in your
household, what that looks likefor you personally, and what
that looks like with a partner.
What is it that we need duringthis fourth trimester?
extended rest is probably themost critical and ensuring thing
(15:59):
a mom can have for her long termhealth during postpartum.
So my rest, I took it the wholeway.
I relaxed every nap that she hadand I didn't do shit around the
house.
And then I just listened to mybody when it was ready to get
back into the swing of thingsand that's what I did.
So extended rest, whether thatbe, you need to look at your own
(16:20):
life and see what that lookslike, what it can look like for
you.
first and foremost, rest.
Okay.
Nourishing food.
you gotta have nourishing foodto complete the healing of your
uterus to rebuild your strength.
Cause it's going to wipe youout.
Giving birth is wiping you out.
(16:40):
Well, and even if you adopt orif you have a surrogate too,
you're going to be wiped outbecause you're caring for a
brand new baby.
It's totally important tonourish your body for strength.
Jordan (16:50):
And if you're breastfeeding, producing milk
too, yeah.
Lindsay (16:53):
Something that's easy to digest, something that's
mineral rich, warming helps, youknow, soothe the soul too.
So that's very important is tonourish yourself and nourish
your body.
Another one would be loving andcaring touch.
This I thought was reallyinteresting.
That is interesting., If you'rehome with your spouse and you're
(17:14):
taking, there's not a lot oftime for like.
Connection.
You're really just in survivalmode that first 40 days and
loving and caring touch massagework, uh, just to help flush,
you know, the limbs and optimizeand,
Jordan (17:29):
definitely especially if like in my future I during this
pregnancy.
I've been feeling very touchedout and like I don't really want
that much touch So it will be Itwould definitely need to be a
conversation where it's like, Iwill be very clear with you
about what specifically theseneeds are that I have, and then
it's also important for us toremember that our husbands have
(17:50):
needs for this as well, becauseall of our energy goes into this
new baby.
And you want to make sure thatin order to get the most support
from your husband, you also wantto make sure you're like giving
them support in the way thatthey need.
Cause I think a lot of the timeswe forget that this is a huge
transition for them too, andthey need physical contact and
(18:10):
loving physical support, uh, asmuch as we do for sure.
Lindsay (18:14):
Yep.
Um, another really interestingone was something that kind I
think Jordan and I wish we couldhave had more of with our
firsts.
And this was a presence of wisewomen around us to talk to us
about the struggles to, when youhave your first, it's a lot of
yay, yay, yay.
This is all going to be sobeautiful and so great.
(18:35):
And it really is at the end ofthe day, you know, it's all
worth it.
It's all wonderful at the end ofthe day, but you sometimes don't
want to steer a mom in the wrongdirection.
Mindset of like, dude, there'ssome hard shit ahead of your
life.
Yeah, and I think it would havebeen really cool for me to
experience like a bettermentorship of a wise women
Jordan (18:57):
I think the advice that I would give to like a new mom
is like first of all, followyour gut.
Second of all, ask, ask any momyou know, any question that you
have and ask as many of them asyou can because everyone does
approach things verydifferently.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lindsay (19:12):
Yeah.
So yeah, it was just interestinglike something you need during
fourth trimester is a presenceof just women to ask.
Yeah.
Um, your, um, your questionsthat you have and it doesn't
even matter if it's one or onemillion.
And to get help from, like,
Jordan (19:24):
I think women who have had babies can very, like, are
very, very good at knowing howexactly a woman who just had a
baby needs support.
Yes.
Like before I had a kid, mysister was having kids and I was
like, Oh, here's a cute littlepair of baby shoes.
I wasn't looking back.
I'm like,
Lindsay (19:43):
what the hell was I thinking?
That's not what she needed.
I look back.
I didn't know.
Like I had no clue.
Same.
I told my, I've apologized to mysister.
I've apologized to some of myfriends.
I was like, you guys, sorry.
I'm sorry.
I had no clue.
But they're like, it's, it's awhole thing.
Cause they, they were at theirpoint in their lives where they
didn't know either.
(20:04):
Yeah.
and it was just too much forthem to reach out because they
were in shock mode, survivalmode too.
And
Jordan (20:13):
yeah, so if you have kids out there and you know
somebody who's pregnant, maybejust use this opportunity to
shoot them a text and be like,Hey, I'm thinking about you.
If you need support in this orthis way, yeah, shout, shout me
out, holler at me.
Lindsay (20:28):
So I think this is the last one that she has in the
book as far as what you mightneed for a fourth trimester is
contact with nature, justconnecting with beauty.
Of the slower paced lifeoutside.
I know that that can be kind ofinteresting.
There's obviously a lot of womenthat live in cities, and it
might not feel slow pacedoutside, but finding a park and
(20:50):
just sitting in a park with yourchild and watching, like, the
bird fly from that tree to thattree, you know, that can just
like slow it down, in a, in asense.
It's not necessarily like a hikeor camping, but nursing near a
window if you're inside duringthe winter time or under the
tree or just feeding your baby.
(21:10):
You don't have to be nursing,but bathing also, too, in like
an outdoor way is kind of a wayto be connecting and slowing
down.
Is that something she said inthe book?
That's
Jordan (21:20):
so funny.
I don't
Lindsay (21:20):
remember that one.
So she mentioned something abouthaving like an air conditioner.
Herbal bath, obviously inside issomething she's all about, but
she says, if you have like ahorse troth, like if you like,
Oh, like
Jordan (21:32):
a proper bath outside.
I
Lindsay (21:34):
think I want to try that.
Jordan (21:36):
It sounds awesome.
Except that I'm having my kid inOctober.
You could have
Lindsay (21:39):
it warm and have that cool, like experience maybe of
like cooler outside and like awarm bath.
I mean, that sounds awesome.
You should try it.
I'm well up for that.
I personally loved.
Having like a 20 minute bath outor at the end of the day every
day.
Yeah, I I mean I had it helpedwith my bowels But like it also
just is like a sanctuary likelittle just to just relax.
(22:03):
Yeah, I'm water.
Yeah And this is also to likeyou're trading your screen time
you're gonna find yourself we'rein the world of screen time, yep
You're going to find yourself inscreen time a lot, um, whether
you're feeding or up at night,just trying to get back to sleep
and you don't want the TV on.
you're going to find yourself onyour phone or iPad, whatever it
is, but just kind of maybe liketrading some of that screen
(22:25):
time.
For bundling up outside if youcan for a few few minutes.
We're taking off all yourclothes if you just had a baby.
Yes.
Oh the amount of like lightclothing that I prefer when I'm
pregnant and when I'm postpartumis unreal.
It's
Jordan (22:41):
crazy.
I'm
Lindsay (22:42):
wearing very
Jordan (22:43):
little.
Lindsay (22:44):
Are you already wearing your husband's stuff?
Jordan (22:46):
Oh yeah this is his shirt.
Yeah and I'm afraid even hisshirts aren't gonna fit me by
the end of this.
Lindsay (22:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So there's some of theinteresting, cool things that
you might need, um, to setyourself up for a really nice
transition when that transitiontime is happening.
Another chapter of part one, I'mjust kind of like really making
this quick.
Preparing your body for birth.
So this would be like gettingyourself for instance, like.
(23:13):
An exercise ball to bounce onliterally for like three months.
Oh my God.
It's the only thing I could siton at the end of my pregnancy,
but stretching and notoverstretching and obviously hip
opening.
Um, you can probably chime in alittle bit.
This, I don't have much.
No, I could
Jordan (23:27):
definitely go on and on, uh, like TVA activation, deep
core muscle activation, 360degree breathing, like breathing
into your side ribs, um,abdominal pressure, Navigation,
you could say, um, there's likea lot, a lot of like work you
can do on navigating having allthat pressure inside that helps
also with labor and delivery.
(23:47):
There's pelvic floor work, whichinvolves tensing and relaxing
your pelvic floor becauseobviously we want to have a
strong pelvic floor for all thesupport, but we also want to be
able to fully relax and open ourpelvic floors for the birth.
So there's like a really bigamount of work to be done there.
I mean, yeah, the stuff you cando for your body to prepare for
(24:08):
birth kind of doesn't reallyend.
Breathing techniques, relaxationtechniques.
Lindsay (24:15):
And like, it's so crazy because a lot of those things
can help you obviously try for anatural birth and unmedicated
natural birth.
And it's wild if you'resensitive to medication, how
fast those can go out thewindow.
Jordan (24:31):
Yeah.
If I, I, what, how fast like
Lindsay (24:35):
medication can kick everything into gear faster,
you're not maybe prepared forlike contractions to be
happening so close together.
Like for me, for an example,practice, practice, practice it
all kind of quite a few of thethings that you've just
mentioned.
But then I had to be induced andI was like, Oh boy, I was not
meant, I was not, my body wasnot ready for medication at that
(24:56):
level.
And that
Jordan (24:56):
Pitocin just like really messed you up, I guess.
Yeah.
And, and either, either type ofbirth that you have, your core
gets stretched out and you doneed to do some rehabbing most
likely after you've given birth.
Uh, and the, the more work youdo beforehand, the easier the
work is to do after, bothbecause your body has been set
up for it, but also because youhave kind of already given
(25:17):
yourself the routine of doingsomething for that part of your
body.
Lindsay (25:23):
Yeah, it's easier to bounce it.
Jordan (25:24):
For sure.
Through,
Lindsay (25:25):
get through that in fourth trimester if you need a
little.
Jordan (25:28):
Yeah.
I would think so.
Yeah.
The unmedicated birth thing isinteresting.
You just said something aboutthat.
I had like a weird experiencereading this section of the book
because I, I did have aC-section and I like, like
everyone else, I didn't want aC-section and I wanted like, you
know, a vaginal birth and Irefused an epidural for a really
long time.
(25:49):
Something like 30 hours and.
Ah, I don't know.
There was like a section whereshe's talking about like the
energetic pathways, um, that,that like get disrupted when you
have certain medicationsintroduced into your system.
And like your, how your body'sability to like do what it needs
to do just doesn't like workanymore.
(26:09):
If you have a medicated birthand then like, you know, you can
imagine that a C section is likejust exacerbates that like in an
extremely big way.
Lindsay (26:17):
I want to like add, I don't know if I've shared this
with you.
Okay.
So.
I was terrified to delivernaturally because I work in the
O.
R.
and I've delivered many babiesvia C section.
Yeah.
So that was my, my normal.
Yeah.
Before having kids.
That's what you were exposed to.
But I want, but the first Csection I had ever done, and I
don't, I literally bawledbecause it was such an emotional
(26:42):
cool thing.
Wow.
And so I'm wondering if like,It's still there though.
That energy, that energy isstill there.
I wasn't prepared for myself tocry or like feel like in the
middle of work.
It was, yes, I wasn't like sad,I was just getting through it.
But I was, but I am the firstperson to hold the baby coming
(27:04):
out so the doctor can work onthe umbilical cord.
I'm still like, holy shit, itwas all happening.
And like that, it had to havebeen whole energy thing.
Cause I remember havinggoosebumps.
I remember crying.
I remember just being like, Thisis unreal, but like you have to
like still shove it down andcontinue to work.
Mm hmm go on But um, yeah, yeah,so if that was like, oh,
Jordan (27:24):
yeah, I mean, I don't doubt it like I still had like
My kid was taken away from mefor quite a while because they
were making sure that herrespiratory system was all good
because there was like somemeconium somewhere.
Did she
Lindsay (27:36):
go to your to your chest for a few minutes before
they took her?
No.
Jordan (27:40):
No, not at all.
But I still had the experienceof like, and I did mourn that
and we can talk about thateventually, but um.
But when my husband brought herin, eventually it was like, you
know, I don't know how manyminutes, God knows how many
minutes it was after she cameout of my body.
But when my husband eventuallybrought her around, like I still
had like that really intenseexperience where, you know, her
(28:00):
skin touches mine and it's justlike, yeah, the universe is just
like expanding inside of yourbody.
You're like, what's happening.
And so I do think, I mean, the,this author didn't experience a
C section.
I know a lot of C sections aretraumatic and I know a lot of
vaginal deliveries are traumaticAnd I know that that's really
important stuff for us to workthrough but there is a There is
(28:24):
out there in the world thispressure for women to have these
natural unmedicated births.
And I just want everyone to knowthat that doesn't need to be
there.
Like, and if you have a Csection or if you have
medication during your birth,you're not doing a disservice to
yourself or to your baby.
Or to your baby at the end ofthe day, you're doing what feels
(28:46):
right for you.
And that is what you should bedoing.
And if you are, if you feelpressured into a C section, I'm
super sorry.
I did for a while.
Uh, we can go into it in moredetail, but at the end of the
day, I was really congruent withthat decision because yeah, but
like, God, yeah, I don't know.
There was like a little sectionof this book that had me reeling
(29:06):
for like a full 10 hours becauseI was just like, Oh, she
doesn't, she doesn't understand.
And like, I don't know.
I don't know.
That part can be difficult forpeople who are still processing
like C sections and stuff likethat to deal with.
Lindsay (29:21):
Right, and because she also is very passionate about
having a plan, birth plan.
Someone that works in thehealthcare field, there also has
to be a plan B, C, maybe D.
For sure, yeah.
Like, it's so, it's wonderfulthat you can come up with a plan
and then you can envision thatand have that for yourself.
But you were just saying howreally important it is at the
end of it all.
(29:43):
And I can add a littlesomething.
Like, there's nothing moreimportant than having that child
with you at the end of it all.
Yeah.
Like, whether it was C section,whether it was medicated,
whether it was, you know,whatever.
When that baby is okay and withyou and touching your skin, it's
just like, like you said, theuniverse just explodes for you.
Jordan (30:04):
And I've even been around women, like, who have had
the experience of having theirkid go straight into the NICU,
which is like, yeah, it's Mindbending yeah, yeah, and even
they have had that experiencewhere the first time they get to
hold their kid It can sometimesbe months away, which I like
cracks my heart into pieces.
My mom wasn't
Lindsay (30:20):
held I don't think for the first like few months of her
life.
Jordan (30:23):
That's so wild.
That's so wild Yeah, but I stillthink that that those women get
to have that experience.
Eventually.
It's not what they want it tolook like But it does it does
sort of come so just rememberthat your journey is your own
And try not to let the pressureand the feelings of like
inadequacy get to you.
(30:44):
Cause that's something I reallystruggled with.
Yeah, that Yeah, I didn't likeit.
I don't like it.
I see it all the time and I justlike, it gets, it gets to me.
And that is some processing thatI still need to do for sure,
but, but it doesn't help to betold that like, yeah, I don't
know.
Whatever.
We'll, we'll be done with thatfor now.
We can talk about it more whenwe go over my birth story.
Yeah.
Lindsay (31:04):
Yeah.
There are definitely.
Parts of this book that cantrigger something.
For sure.
Reflect on yourself.
What are the some things youwould want to add to this list
of preparing for fourthtrimester?
Sure.
thing that you would maybe wantto add to the list is like, how
does devoted time for yourselflook Realistically for me, it
was 20 minutes in the bathtubevery single evening, you know,
(31:26):
kind of, that was devoted timefor me that I needed.
Yeah.
And then finding a personalroutine and part of your day,
making it glorious.
I've talked about that before.
Yep.
My nighttime routine.
I'm like this is going to be thebest nighttime routine I've ever
experienced in my life.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Explore what self care is goingto look like for you after you
have a baby
Jordan (31:43):
and keep it minimal.
One of the women I spoke tobefore I had my first kid was,
her advice was to To dosomething small for yourself
every day, but to like build onit.
So for the first week, the onesmall thing she did was just
simply bathe herself or shower.
And that was it.
That was the only thing she, theonly expectation she had for
herself and the only thing shewas going to do to care for
herself and just had thatdedicated thing.
(32:05):
And then the next week addedjust one thing and the next week
added just one thing.
So like you're, you're caringfor yourself, but you're not
putting pressure on yourself tolike get something.
Yeah.
Cause that can also go the otherway.
Yes.
Yeah.
Lindsay (32:18):
Yeah.
You can find yourself like kindof, if you're trying to do it
all, you're going to startfeeling like a failure that you
can't get it all done.
You're going to be
Jordan (32:25):
tired.
Yep.
Lindsay (32:26):
Yeah, totally.
All right.
Jordan (32:27):
So bring us into part two, part two gets into the meat
of like the, second.
So, yes.
So
Lindsay (32:34):
part two is savoring this fourth trimester time, not
surviving it, not trudgingthrough it.
Okay.
Really savoring it.
So learning how to shift yourmindset on your relationship
with your physical body, how torebuild it.
Restoring your vitality and likewho you are and what you've just
done and how empowering that is.
(32:54):
Yeah, like processing the wholejourney.
You're gonna feel like crap whenyou get out there.
Yeah.
You can easily just get intothat slumber of feeling that way
and be stuck there.
Especially when you're in themiddle of the winter time.
Yeah.
And you can't like get sunlightto make you feel better.
Whatever.
You're gonna be quite emotional.
I've never experienced emotionlike, like I did.
(33:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, unfortunately I just alsohad some other factors that
brought in my emotions to bekind of wild, but, you're going
to experience yourselfemotionally like, Oh yeah.
Snapping maybe.
I remember, I remember
Jordan (33:30):
it was like both extremes for me and it was like
all, I felt like I was feelingevery single feeling that there,
that existed in the world all atonce.
Like all the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's such a weird experience.
Lindsay (33:43):
So this part of the book is just like really
savoring that and likeunderstanding, okay, I'm really
going through these emotions,for example, for a reason, my
body's hormonally changing.
Yeah.
Um, and then we just brieflydiscussed a little bit about
owning our birthing experience.
No matter what that birthingexperience is, is owning it and
totally sinking into it andbeing like this had to go this
(34:05):
way for quite the reason.
Mm hmm.
And.
I'm moving forward with thatreason.
Yeah,
Jordan (34:10):
and she does talk, one of the things I really liked to
kind of contrast the part that Ididn't like, um, was her, her
talking about that exact thing.
I really liked when she saidit's really healing to share
your birth story, to write downyour birth story and journal
about it, to talk with yourpartner about it.
Yeah, and what
Lindsay (34:30):
theirs was too.
Yeah, how,
Jordan (34:31):
what their experience of your birth story was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that that sectionwas one of the better ones for
me.
I think that she also even talksabout like moving the energy
through your body.
If you feel like you have somestuck energy after labor and
delivery, because weirdly, I didkind of feel that, like, I felt
like.
I had this need to move energydown through like your birthing
(34:55):
canal.
Kind of.
Maybe not my birthing canal.
It was just like energy thatfell stuck around my pelvic
floor that I, I can't describeit.
I'm not like that way?
No.
By chance?
Okay.
No.
It was just for like a handfulof months after I had my, had my
kid.
Yeah.
Lindsay (35:10):
Yeah.
I guess that kind of stopped forme after I started, stopped
pumping.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was having an issue.
Yeah, I do just was not like,yeah.
And I was like, I brought up,dude, I feel like my left side
is stuck.
Yeah.
You're like, you know what?
I'm speaking of that.
Yeah.
Jordan (35:25):
This feels stuck for me too.
And she has some really cooldifferent ways that you can
process that kind of stuckenergy.
And it's a little bit, it's alittle bit out there, but this
is like a section of my lifewhere I'm happy to go out there
with my imagination.
Run around with it a little bit.
So if you're interested in that,I would definitely check out
that section of this book inpart two.
Yeah.
Lindsay (35:45):
I would say it was like literally like one of the most
important parts.
Part three, part threeexperience.
Yeah.
Like savoring the fourthtrimester because now you're in
it.
Yeah.
And just accepting it all forwhat it is.
Yeah.
It's so, that's part of the bookwas like mind blowing for me.
Jordan (36:04):
What was your like biggest.
What hit you the hardest in thissection?
Owning my birthing experience.
Oh yeah?
Lindsay (36:10):
Interesting.
Yeah, because I still, I'm stilltrying to get through the shock
of the medications frominduction.
Mhm.
And I'm like, man, I reallydon't want meds in my body or
man, I like for the next time.
Yeah.
So I'm finding myself.
What about
Jordan (36:24):
like epidural?
How do you feel about that fornext time?
Do you know?
I will do that.
I don't, I don't mind that.
Lindsay (36:28):
Okay.
Pitocin was like a whole newlevel for me.
Okay.
Just kicked everything so fast.
And I was nervous.
It was too fast for my daughter.
Yeah.
I was in there just like, yeah,it's interesting.
Jordan (36:40):
Yeah.
I can't wait to figure out howthis next one's going to go.
It's so wild to think about howdifferent it could, it could be.
Lindsay (36:48):
Yeah.
I would probably do a little bitwork on, balancing my emotions,
but my, some of my outsidefactors need to be different.
Jordan (36:57):
Yeah.
I like, yeah.
So, and you never know what'sgood.
Like you have to also giveyourself credit and, and
flexibility in that.
I think you have to giveyourself a lot of grace for
emotion balancing and justunderstand that you're not going
to get it right.
Or it's not going to feelbalanced or whatever, like,
yeah, just grace.
Lindsay (37:15):
She talks a little bit about deepening intimacy and I
don't know if this has like an,I don't know.
I just come from like a lifewhere I think of the word
intimacy is like sexual.
That's cool.
Never really think of it as liketouch.
And I came from, um, fromprobably at household that
didn't show just hugging andtouching as a way of intimacy
either.
but I, rediscovering intimacywould be like, I might need a
(37:39):
hug more often, or I might needthat massage more often, like
light touch massage.
So that's something I'llprobably discuss with my husband
about like for next time too,and Yeah, this was a big part of
the book for, for myself.
She,
Jordan (37:56):
yeah, she talks about another really cool thing.
If you're feeling like you'reworried about the connection
between you and your partner, oryou want to prioritize the
connection between you and yourpartner, if you have a partner
around, this section's reallyhelpful.
Really interesting.
She provides like a fewdifferent, really cool ways of
going into like how to approachfinding that connection.
And one of them is sharing thebirth story.
(38:17):
And then there were a couple ofreally simple, quick ones, like
just like laying in bed togetherand looking at each other,
looking into each other's eyes,like little things you just
wouldn't do, especially not in apostpartum period that I do
think are really important.
So if you have a partner, that'sa great section to get to.
If you don't have a partner, Iwould just recommend skipping
it.
Yeah.
Lindsay (38:37):
Okay, so Part 3 is Beyond.
Beyond the Fourth Trimester.
Bye bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye bye.
This comes with accepting theamount of time, I think.
Jordan (38:47):
That it takes to get back to some sort of level of
this is normal for me now.
Body.
Goddamn.
Lindsay (38:53):
Maybe your own personal sexuality, whether that's solo
or with someone.
Yeah.
Discovering even like, the typeof mom you foresee yourself
being in your child's life.
And how you want to be andfollowing your, following your
true like gut feeling andinstinctions first, like they're
(39:16):
going to have so many opinionsand so many angles coming at you
of how to parent.
And you're going to have a lotof people that are generations
ahead of you saying you're notdoing it right.
Or this, this, this, this, this,this.
Not as much as Lindsay wantedthose mentors around.
It turned out I didn't reallywant them around.
Jordan (39:38):
I'm just kidding.
It turned out I
Lindsay (39:39):
really just wanted to be, continue my independent
self.
Yeah.
No, I'm totally joking.
It was great, but I'm just socomfortable in my independence
that
Jordan (39:51):
No, but, and, and also like there are, there, there is
a big difference between someonewanting to give you help and
someone telling you how to dosomething.
Yeah.
Very, yeah.
Very true.
And you'll be able to spot thedifference.
Yes.
And feel it for yourself.
Lindsay (40:04):
Yeah.
You can
Jordan (40:05):
make your
Lindsay (40:05):
own judgments.
You will feel that internally.
Very much so.
Uh huh.
Um, so part three, beyond thefourth trimester is really like
just kind of seeing everythinginto the future.
This is where the time comes.
It's important that you returnto your exercise in sexuality in
thoughtful and informed ways.
For the rest of your life, forthe rest of your life.
(40:28):
So rediscovering your body,there are some moms that feel
like postpartum is 10 yearslong.
Yeah,
Jordan (40:32):
man.
Rediscovering your body is areally cool section.
I really liked that one becauseI was so super surprised at the
way my body felt when, when Iwas pregnant the first time.
And even now, like just thefeeling of looseness in my
joints, I do a lot of yoga and Ido a lot of climbing and my
joints are very important to meand I use them a lot.
Yeah.
And they feel very differentdoing these different poses and
(40:55):
things.
I remember being like Way beyondsix weeks postpartum with my
first kid and realizing that Istill didn't even feel like I
could do like a simple positionlike upward dog because my core
muscles still feel so weird.
Yeah, sure.
And I remember thinking it tooklike six months or something to
get back into my normal, likeyoga practice, even though I was
doing it often during
Lindsay (41:16):
that six month period of time.
Did you find yourself like alittle bit of judgment?
Jordan (41:20):
I was pretty, I was actually pretty good, I think,
about not being too judgmental.
I think that there might havebeen days where I was like,
damn, I really just want to feelstrong again.
Or like, damn, I just reallywant to do this pose again.
Or like maybe a little bitannoyed, but not like
judgmental.
But I can definitely see itslipping into a judgmental
space, especially if you don't,like, I'm a little nervous about
(41:40):
that this second time becauseI'm like, when am I going to do
a yoga practice?
Yeah.
And getting that like workedinto my day might be a lot
trickier now that I have twokids with nap schedules to
coordinate in order to find timefor that.
You know what I mean?
So yeah.
Maybe this time it'll bedifferent, but I do think I was
good about giving myself thatgrace And I think that yeah, you
(42:03):
I was told by another woman likeyou've got to give yourself at
least three months grace Yep,and I was like, I'm glad to hear
that because you just hear
Lindsay (42:10):
six weeks.
Jordan (42:11):
Yes.
You're just here six weeks forsex You just hear six weeks for
and I didn't have my sex driveback after six weeks No.
Not
Lindsay (42:20):
even a little bit.
My doctor was like, are youready?
Yeah.
Are you ready for birth control?
Because you're going to need it.
You're probably going to startovulating again.
And My husband's not doing that.
I'm having sex.
Jordan (42:29):
Nope.
You're wrong.
Yeah.
Oh man.
Yeah.
So, and maybe, yeah, that'sdefinitely different for
everyone too, but I think it'sreally common for women to have
very decreased sex drives after.
Yeah.
In that postpartum phase.
And I think that that's anotherthing, grace, and I hope you
(42:51):
don't feel like you have to doit for your husband's sake.
Yeah.
He'll live through the period ofa little drought.
Yeah.
Yeah, you will.
Lindsay (42:59):
This is a huge, like, you have to remind yourself.
She tells, says you've remindyourself that you're in the
middle of a huge monumentalprocess that is probably longer
than you anticipated.
Yes.
And so hearing that, like, giveyourself three months, like this
whole six week thing, I wouldsay like the way I felt during
my
Jordan (43:18):
yoga practice, I would say six months and I know I had
a C section, so maybe it was alittle longer, but like, yeah.
Yeah, six months before youstart judging yourself and don't
judge yourself even after thatbecause you're doing your best.
Lindsay (43:29):
Yeah
Jordan (43:31):
I thought one section, uh one little part in that
section that I found What's thatjust
Lindsay (43:35):
doing
Jordan (43:35):
it safely too.
Oh safely.
Definitely Yeah, I had someadvice early on that was like
from a another strong femaleClimbing friend of mine and she
said my biggest regret You Wasgetting into doing harder
exercises than my body couldhandle too quickly.
And I felt like my healingprocess was totally destroyed
because of it.
And I was like, whoops, scaredabout that.
(43:57):
Yeah, duly noted.
I will not do anythingstrenuous,
Lindsay (44:00):
right?
For some reason I had thisthought that I had to get so
many steps in a day.
Um, actually, we're just goingto start around the block.
Jordan (44:08):
Yeah.
And you have the rest of yourlife to get those steps in.
Don't even stress.
One thing I really liked in thissection was there was a part
that I found really interestingand it's an exercise that I want
to try.
Oh, um, is it the sexuality one,the mother one?
Oh no, it's not extra, an actualphysical exercise.
Are
Lindsay (44:25):
you talking about possibly, um, just finding like
the pelvic floor imagery?
No, but that is good too.
Yeah.
Where you like, imagine like aladybug.
Did you read that part?
I
Jordan (44:36):
remember it, but I've heard so many different pelvic
floor analogies.
Okay.
My favorite pelvic floor analogyis, uh, I got this one from a
girl called Nikki Bergen, Ibelieve she's on at the bell
method on Instagram.
She's awesome.
her, her analogy for liketightening the pelvic floor is
to imagine there's like, allthree of your openings.
Your exterior anal sphincter,your vagina, and your urethra.
(45:00):
Imagine there's like a marble atyour anus, a rectum.
Rectum's a nicer word.
There's a marble at your rectum.
I guess I have to cue that in.
I like a blueberry at yourvagina and like a flaxseed at
your urethra.
And imagine you're like tryingto like grab all of them and
like, Oh, wow.
Lindsay (45:20):
That's interesting because I've only really thought
about like kegels.
I
Jordan (45:24):
know.
And that's like the problem thata lot of people have.
Yeah.
There's so much to get into withpelvic floor stuff, but yeah,
the pelvic floor stuff's cool.
No, what I was going to say is,um, There's an exercise that I
want to do, it's like a writtenexercise where she says, write
mother in one column and writesexuality or whatever in another
column and like, free write asmany things that describe that
(45:46):
thing in your brain as you can.
Her describing is very well.
Lindsay (45:50):
Yeah.
No, but her writing cues, uh,literally from each person.
Chapter
Jordan (45:56):
are really cool,
Lindsay (45:57):
really cool.
Yeah.
Jordan (45:59):
Yeah.
Because she talks about how itcan be hard to like, feel like a
sexual being and also feel likea mother and hold those two in
the same body.
Lindsay (46:06):
And
Jordan (46:07):
I have found that like, especially like with my boobs
and stuff, like they're now liketools for breastfeeding.
They used to be something myhusband really enjoyed, but
like, I don't want him anywherenear me.
It's hard to even like, for meto like, look at myself in the
same way that I used to likesexually, it does get very
convoluted and confusingafterwards.
(46:27):
Very much.
And your body feels waydifferent.
Like during pregnancy, I reallystruggle with sex.
Like I actually think it's,everything just doesn't feel the
same.
Like the things that worked foryou before, like suddenly I'm
like, I don't I feel like ateenager again trying to figure
out how to get off.
Yes.
It's so weird.
Lindsay (46:45):
And like, you're like, this doesn't normally make me
out of breath.
Yeah.
Why are we?
Yeah, that too.
Like, I wanted to keep going,but now I'm distracted because
I'm out of breath or like,distracted because I I feel like
my
Jordan (46:59):
parts are just rearranged and it's like, just
different.
Things are being Alsodistracting.
Yeah.
It's very weird.
Weird.
It's a very weird experience.
So I hope that you, uh, my bestadvice for that is to try and
have as open communication withyour partner as you can.
That's something I'm working onpersonally is just being
comfortable saying this feelsdifferent to what I'm used to.
(47:23):
It's not like it's you, mybody's just changing.
Let's try and, let's try andexplore different things, you
know.
Try stuff like that.
A lot of people don't feel comfytalking with their partners
about sex, but now's a good timeto start if you, and you can use
this
Lindsay (47:37):
as an excuse
Jordan (47:38):
if you don't feel comfortable.
Lindsay (47:40):
Yeah.
Jordan (47:40):
Good time to start.
So that's something I reallyliked from that section too.
Yeah.
You could even like referenceour podcast.
Lindsay (47:46):
Yeah, go for it.
Okay.
So this part of the book isreally neat.
She has like a conclusion, thenshe has acknowledgements and
then she does like the sectionof appendix where It's like a
guide, a guide that likequestions that you can really
start visualizing how this goesall down for you.
(48:07):
So,
Jordan (48:08):
so it's like a sanctuary, like a postpartum
what you want that to look like.
Lindsay (48:17):
What do you want the first two weeks and then the
first month.
Like what do those actually looklike as far as just the visitor
section goes?
And then rest.
What are the obstacles aroundrest?
Obviously, toddler.
Jordan (48:30):
Obviously
Lindsay (48:30):
having a
Jordan (48:30):
toddler
Lindsay (48:31):
at home is an obstacle to rest.
Yeah, so just discussing thatwith your partner.
What's another one?
what are the ways you canaddress those?
My husband and I are in couplestherapy.
We've been in it for a littlewhile and we absolutely love it,
but there's a something, I don'tknow if you and your spouse
experience this, but a lot ofparents experience this short
term communication.
Short term communicationobviously comes when you are
(48:54):
like parenting together and youhave one child in between you
and you just got to get to thepoint a lot quicker and it can
come off real harsh or it cancome off too quick or too brash
and all of a sudden there's somefeelings and emotions going on.
Yeah.
And so, how can you address Theway you need to rest without
saying, Oh, I need to be leftthe fuck alone.
(49:16):
Yeah.
You know, you might be feelingthat with your hormones and your
emotions and everything, butreally sitting down and figuring
out how you can address that topeople around you is good.
how do you manage visitorsaround resting time?
So, or in general, we.
So for instance, just forexample, we have family that
(49:37):
lives out of town.
They're all gonna be visitingthis area when we have a child.
So we've thought, okay, we'regonna have to set like probably
time frames.
Where they can come into thehouse and where they need to
leave you alone for a bit.
So that's a great way to like,that's, that would be like an
example of an answer for thatpart.
And then she's got like food,three, what are three balanced
snacks that you should alwayshave in the household?
(50:00):
This is just a really great wayto really foresee your fourth
trimester and how to plan it andjust a really nice way for sure
Jordan (50:06):
Speaking of yeah, like for me the fourth trimester
planning while I'm pregnant isall about getting food in the
house And all about getting myhouse just like clean and tidy
So when you walk into a room, soyou don't to think about that
should think about like clutter
Lindsay (50:19):
like distracted finding your tribe who can you really
call to tell you how you'rereally feeling?
You would obviously be thatperson for me here for that.
Who can you trust your bait?
Who can you trust to take yourbaby?
If you need like a walk whileyou're a spouse while you
Jordan (50:36):
need to take care of your baby.
Yeah.
And then
Lindsay (50:39):
you're wider.
Having an idea of who yourwider, tribe is, is like, yeah,
like your acupuncturist orOBGYN, midwife, housekeeper,
night nurse, distant family,
Jordan (50:51):
other friends.
Lindsay (50:52):
Yeah.
And then another really goodone.
What brings you joy?
Music, movement, singing,watching some like comforting TV
show.
Yeah.
A little self care.
Yeah.
postpartum relationship plan.
How do you deal with stress?
How does he deal with stress?
He or she?
How do you deal with stress?
what do you commit to in yourrelationship once you have a
baby?
(51:12):
So what is something you guysare going to commit to?
Jordan (51:15):
Like what like daily or weekly strategy.
Lindsay (51:17):
Yeah
Jordan (51:19):
Dividing the household chores.
You guys do this.
Yeah, we do.
But we're going to probably doit, we might have to do it
differently for the first likemonth.
Yeah.
Most part I don't want to do asmuch as I currently do.
I don't want to go to the store.
Yeah.
Lindsay (51:32):
Exactly.
So yeah, I could probably bethat per, you know, person if
your husband can't do it or I'mout and about or whatever.
Totally.
A good thing to have.
Yeah.
we talked about essential foodsand snacks.
Mm-Hmm.
uh, she's got a list of all likethe things that are really
helpful, which is really cool.
You don't really see this kindof information from your, from
your Western medicine doctors.
(51:53):
They're not giving you a list oflike nutritious foods.
Here's some nuts that are verylike great during healing.
They're not doing that.
So this is kind of a nice way toresearch that and like what
grains are good and whatbeverages and liquids are good.
And she's got some recipes onthe back which are great too.
I have my recipes that I reallylike that worked for me that I
have under my belt.
(52:13):
So I'm good with that.
Like,
Jordan (52:14):
yeah, I'd say stock your freezer with soups.
Yeah.
Easy digestible foods was it forme.
Yeah.
I'm definitely looking forwardto going through all of those,
especially with.
Uh, my husband and just makingsure we're on the same page.
It's also just like nice becauseyou kind of get into this point
in your pregnancy where you'relike, I'm ready to start
preparing, but I, I know there'sonly so much prep I can do by
(52:35):
myself.
And I really want to starttalking about this with my
partner.
Cause even, especially with justtalking about another kid in the
house, like you just don't maketime for that so much, or at
least we haven't.
So that'll give us a good, likejust jumping off point.
I'll just be like, we, I havethis thing I want us to do
together.
And then it's like, yeah.
It gives us the framework for anentire conversation.
Yes.
(52:55):
Which is really nice for twotired parents who don't want to
try and have a conversation toshop their own bags.
I know that sounds crazy, butI'm looking forward to
Lindsay (53:03):
that.
It's all just like, like I said,this book is beautiful and
wonderful and go, I say go intoit with a very open mind.
Yes.
Because this is a really hottopic.
How it can fit.
It can
Jordan (53:14):
be triggering.
And it can also be reallyuseful.
Yeah, I like, I was a little bittriggered by that one section,
but otherwise I really found alot of value in the book as a
whole, even in that one section.
Cause it is, that was thesection that triggered
Lindsay (53:28):
me as well.
Yeah.
Just because even though Ihadn't had one C section
delivered hundreds of babies viathat way and it was just fine.
And yeah.
Jordan (53:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, just keep that in mind.
But ultimately, uh, yeah, areally good read.
I definitely recommend it.
I know you've said that youwould read this even if you were
a mom who wasn't planning onhaving any more kids, because it
can help you process the wayyour whole pregnancy birth and
postpartum period went.
Lindsay (53:55):
Yeah,
Jordan (53:56):
absolutely.
So yeah, check it out if youdidn't read it already to follow
along with us.
Have a little peek in that bookfourth trimester.
It's a good one.
All right.
Well, that went on for likequite a while.
So let's wrap it all up.
I have, I feel like we shouldstill do a recommendation.
I have, I have a good rec fortoday.
(54:16):
So I have been, obviously beforethe July times just came in one
and we're in the middle ofsummer where we're having
barbecues, getting at friendshouses all the time.
and.
There's something in my lifethat I've been missing a lot
that we used last summer and mykid's just a little too big for
it now.
And that is a like pop and gohigh chair.
(54:37):
Like eating high chair.
Oh, yeah.
So I have the, tell me, wait,
Lindsay (54:43):
what's it look like?
I don't know.
Jordan (54:44):
You have one.
Oh, the little, the little likeportable high chairs, like a
travel booster high chair thathas like a little, Hi, so it's
the summer, the one I havespecifically, there are
obviously tons of these, butit's the summer infant pop and
sit portable high chair.
Lindsay (55:04):
It looks like a little lawn chair.
Yeah,
Jordan (55:06):
so if your kid isn't super big yet and they're high
chairing and you're going topeople's houses or going camping
or going on a trip and you don'twant to bring a high chair, this
thing is the
Lindsay (55:16):
best.
The funnest part for them tohave, like, they love sitting in
that, having a snack outside.
My kid
Jordan (55:21):
loved it.
Yeah, I'm really sad that thatdoesn't work now because we're
in this awkward stage where likeshe's not big enough to sit at a
table.
She's like a little too messy tosit on the floor and eat.
Yeah.
I just missed that thing.
So if you don't have one, yeah,of course I have it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'll use it for kid numbertwo next summer.
(55:44):
Yeah.
Cause that's a good,
Lindsay (55:45):
it'll be good timing for him to use that.
Yep.
Totally.
So yeah, she'll have to get likea little toddler full, like a
lawn chair.
Jordan (55:54):
Yeah.
I should get her one of thoseactually.
That'd be cute.
Or maybe they make a biggerversion of this.
I just haven't yet head up toshields and
Lindsay (56:00):
just kind of look and see what's on the shelf and
then.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Let's see what's around.
Yeah.
Out now.
Anyway,
Jordan (56:07):
check that out.
Enjoy your summer barbecues.
That much more.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's all I got.
That's really fun.
Cheers.
Cool.
Lindsay (56:14):
Cool.
All right.
So we talked about, uh, nexttime we're probably going to
discuss.
Oh, is that in my mind?
We had been
Jordan (56:21):
talking about birth planning, but well, birth
stories, like our birth stories,which we can totally share.
It might not be next time, but Ithink soon, um.
I think that'd be cool.
Yeah.
I do too.
I have so many things that mykid's going through right now,
like transitioning to a toddlerbed and potty training and lots
of really, really big topics.
(56:42):
So these will all be coming upreally soon because we're in
the, in the throes of, yeah.
Like capable toddler hood.
And
Lindsay (56:48):
that's like coming up for me.
I'm four months behind you.
Yeah.
With our daughter and that's all
Jordan (56:54):
approaching.
So we need to get to recordingsome more episodes, which we
will do.
Um, in the meantime, if you'dlike to give us a follow, we are
at wehavekidspodcast onInstagram.
Please feel free to subscribe toour podcast.
Like us.
Lindsay (57:09):
Check out the fun website we just launched.
Yeah.
Jordan (57:13):
Leave us a little review if you feel inclined, or just
really sweet today.
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
Yeah.
Lindsay (57:21):
We'll talk to you soon.
Talk to you later.
Bye.
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