November 26, 2024 • 58 mins
In this episode, we discuss something you probably wish you couldn't relate to but almost certainly do: fighting with your partner. Listen in to hear about the time Jordan had a menty-b in front of her kid (not a proud moment) and all the things she's doing to avoid another one. We share tips for empathizing with your partner and calming your nervous system, as well as some research that suggests why you should.
Lindsay also shares some tips for using castor oil to help with everything from acne to those dreaded post-birth poops. Truly something for everyone!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:00):
because we're both so exhausted and we have so much
going on and we have so littletime for each other and so much
coming up, it just seems tolike, Be so much harder to
regulate our nervous systems inthe moment.
And we're going there.
Okay, sweet.
Oh, what's that noise?
Is that me?
(00:20):
That was you.
I think it was your breathing.
Lindsay (00:25):
It's like, you're not breathing out of your nose.
Okay,
Jordan (00:28):
cool.
I won't do that.
Yeah.
Hello.
Hi.
How's it going?
Good.
Good.
Welcome back.
Welcome, welcome back.
Welcome back to our littlepodcast.
Yeah.
We have kids.
So fun.
That's what you're listening toright now.
Our launch is going pretty well.
It is.
You know what?
(00:48):
I haven't checked that, uh,checked to see specifically how
well it's going in like a week.
Lots of
Lindsay (00:54):
great feedback from family and friends.
Yeah.
Thank you everybody.
It's really fun to see.
See where like people arelistening in from in the
country, all the world all overthe place.
Yeah.
And I can't believe it.
It's really cool'causeeveryone's getting like a little
start of it.
There's no ads or like breaks oranything in our show, so it's
kind of like a nice little sweetspot.
(01:15):
Yeah.
We'll get, I mean hope maybe.
We'll hopefully we'll get theads, but also enjoy your time
without the ads because it'sgonna be nice if you're
listening in like two years.
Jordan (01:23):
Maybe you just listens to an ad Yeah, we sure don't
have any right now, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Actually.
Thank you.
Thank you all for the support.
It means a lot to us.
I've been getting some coolfeedback.
Lots of people have been reallyinto the adrenal cocktail.
That was like episode one
Lindsay (01:40):
or two.
Yeah.
The only feedback I'm gettingfrom that one is how are you
traveling with that?
So people aren't understandinghow I'm traveling like, or
excuse me when I travel, likehow I'm doing it when I travel,
just bringing emergency.
I bring enough emergency packetsfor the day.
Yeah.
I toss them in my nice bigZiploc bag and I do travel with
(02:02):
my Celtic sea salt.
I noticed that last time I wastalking about it and I was
saying Celtic.
Oh really?
Celtic or Celtic.
I'm fairly certain it's Celtic.
I'm pretty sure it's Celtic too.
I do travel with that in mycarry on and I just leave it up
like on the top of everythingbecause TSA does have to check
it.
They've checked it every singletime I've traveled.
(02:23):
Hmm.
So.
And then you just
Jordan (02:26):
buy coconut water when you're out.
Yeah.
Cause that would suck.
Yeah.
Lindsay (02:29):
Yep.
Jordan (02:30):
Yeah.
Cool.
Um, yeah.
And I, I was actually listeningto, I made myself one the other
morning, just like randomlybecause I had the stuff for it
and I was feeling wiped out.
Oh boy.
So wiped out.
I've been feeling.
Lindsay (02:43):
So how many weeks are you,
Jordan (02:44):
I am, I'll be 31 weeks tomorrow, girl.
Yep.
You're in it.
I, yeah, it's like home stretch,but I'm sure all of you who've
been pregnant out there arelike, yeah, that last 10 weeks
is like, it doesn't feel likethe home stretch feels like your
whole pregnancy is justhappening in like slow motion.
(03:05):
That last bit.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that's where I'm atright now.
So I.
I hadn't really made one athome.
I'm a little bit of a slacker,but I made one.
And then I turned on thispodcast.
I was listening to, it was LizMoody podcast, um, with an
endocrinologist as a guest,
Lindsay (03:22):
endocrinologist.
Oh my gosh.
I kind of, I was thinking aboutyou the whole time.
I think I feel like that couldhave been my calling.
Like if I was, if I didn'tbecome a dietitian.
And I really wanted to, but Ialso didn't, I was also stubborn
when I was younger.
I didn't want to take organicchemistry.
How stupid is that?
I didn't want to take that classeither.
Jordan (03:41):
I heard
Lindsay (03:42):
so many horror stories.
I wanted to be so like a CRNA,then a dietitian.
And I was like, I don't want totake any of this organic
chemistry.
And I was just 19 years old andrefused.
And like, I was like, I lookback at that.
I'm like, why didn't you justlike, Just try.
You could have tried.
But anyways, endocrinologistwould have been cool.
Jordan (04:03):
Yeah.
It was a great episode.
Check it out everyone.
Like I said, Liz Moody podcast,but I turned it on like
literally, I was like halfwaythrough the episode and then
randomly they started talkingabout the adrenal cocktail and I
was like, Oh my God, this is soweird.
I literally just made that.
That's crazy.
so strange coincidence.
But then as I was listening.
(04:24):
The endocrinologist had a littletip.
She actually said that she's allfor the adrenal cocktail, which
is awesome.
Lindsay said all the rightthings.
Uh, yeah.
So listen to that episode if youhaven't already to get all the
info.
But one other tip that theendocrinologist had was to add
cream of tartar to it, which Iwas like, that was interesting
Lindsay (04:42):
too.
Jordan (04:42):
Yeah.
So if you are trying the adrenalcocktail along with us, throw in
some cream of tartar.
She didn't say like a pinch.
I guess.
I don't know.
She, she didn't, I would imaginelike a pinch.
Not too much.
Yeah.
But I guess it adds potassium.
So another really good mineralfor your body.
Really cool.
Yeah.
So another little update I hadfor anyone interested that I
died, this, this cracked me upso much.
(05:04):
I don't know if you guysremember listening, if you did
to the toddler bed episode whereI was giving tips for keeping
your kid in their bed while Iwas struggling.
To keep my kid in her bed.
And like literally the day afterwe recorded that episode, I was
like, I'll try the baby monitortrick that I mentioned, which is
literally like you watch yourkid on the monitor, you know, a
(05:26):
monitor you can like speak into.
And if they get up, you justsay, stay in bed or like say no,
say no really firmly was I thinklike the official tip.
But what I said was I saw herlike starting to sip and I was
like, Lay down, please.
And then she just laid back downand it literally worked.
(05:46):
Yeah.
Lindsay (05:47):
You were like, yeah, cause in the episode you're
like, that's kind of weird.
I'm not going to like pull thattrick.
Yeah, like there's
Jordan (05:52):
no way she's going to actually just like listen to me
on the bench.
And here you did it.
What made you think to do it?
You were just like.
The fact that I had given thatas advice.
I don't know.
Maybe you had stuff to do
Lindsay (06:01):
and you were
Jordan (06:01):
like.
Yeah, I was like sitting, doingwork on my computer and didn't
want to get up and, you Funny.
And yeah, wrestle her.
It worked that day.
It's so funny.
The next day, I think I did itthree times and she's never
gotten back out of bed.
Lindsay (06:17):
I can't believe that.
It's insane.
So stupid.
I'm going to put that now in mypocket.
Yeah, you need it.
I don't know.
Just to try.
Yeah.
We're going to try on the pottytraining thing for fall.
She's wanting to sit on thepotty and all the things.
So she, so we're going to dothat first and just see.
So we also don't want a lot ofchanges all at once because I
(06:40):
also mentioned in that episodethat I was battling insomnia.
It was one of the parts of theepisode we were just shooting
the shit and you were talkingabout what's going on with you.
And I'm like, I'm not sleepinggood.
So I have insomnia.
When I'm pregnant, Ding, ding.
Guess what?
Guess what?
(07:00):
So I, I am announcing that I'mpregnant here on the podcast.
I am well into my secondtrimester.
Jordan and I are just 15 weeksapart again, which is basically
the same gap we had the firsttime.
The first time our gap was thesame.
This time the gap is meant to bein the same, and it's just so
(07:22):
like.
Amazing and thrilling and justawesome.
So I hadn't, I haven't saw me ahardcore you guys, and I am not
joining the Unisom train.
Oh, are you not?
Jordan (07:36):
Because you said maybe even in that episode, I don't
remember if you said it in theepisode or not, but that you
were considering
Lindsay (07:41):
Unisom.
Yeah.
So I consider, so everyone'sthrown it my way.
Right.
Friends, friends that work inhealth care, family, doctor, I
think you may have as well.
I don't know what it is.
I mean, I didn't before youbrought it up, so I don't think
I did,
Jordan (07:58):
but I think I told
Lindsay (08:00):
you this.
Yeah.
You were like, try smoking weed.
And I was like, well, I haven'tlike done that, like went
pregnant.
So I'm right.
Obviously.
So just like you, just like you,I don't want to try anything new
when I'm pregnant.
I had a miscarriage last falland I'm like.
terrified to try anything likenew that I haven't done before
pregnancy or when I was trying.
(08:20):
It's scary even if you haven't.
Yeah.
So I'm just like, so anyways,I'm just like keeping things
like really like chill.
But the, but the reason I'm notjumping the unisom train is
because I have insomnia rightnow for a full blown reason.
I am pregnant.
Yeah.
That's a full blown reason, Ithink.
Yes, I don't have insomnianecessarily.
(08:42):
When I'm not pregnant, I am alight sleeper, but then I'm even
more of a light sleeper when Ihave children, because my mother
instincts are, you know, chimingin throughout the night, keeping
me up.
But, yeah, so I'm pregnant.
Yeah, congratulations! Yeah,thank you.
I mean, I knew, obviously.
Yes, you've known for a longtime.
(09:03):
But I've I've been on here andwe've been doing all these
episodes talking about, youknow, how Jordan's been
uncomfortable, like in the heatand like just sitting and like
doing all the things and I amright there with her.
Yeah.
I like, but it's been so hard tolike not say anything, tie my
tongue, um, on this situationbecause, um, yeah, it's just
(09:26):
like right there.
It's happening.
So, I'm feeling so much better.
I had a terrible firsttrimester, very like nauseous,
way more nauseous.
I don't know.
I think I'm more nauseous than Iwas with my daughter.
Um, but I'm in my firstborn.
Um, so I don't know.
We'll see.
But everything seems to be likesame insomnia, food aversions
food cravings were the exactsame that I had with my first.
Jordan (09:49):
Yeah.
So I don't remember what yourfood cravings, chicken Caesar
salad,
Lindsay (09:53):
remember?
Jordan (09:54):
I could not get
Lindsay (09:55):
enough of chicken Caesar salad.
I couldn't get enough of thetarget chicken Caesar wrap that
when I remember that's so funnyand like chicken in general.
So like, raising canes, chickenstrips, like, Oh my God, I
can't, I could not get enoughchicken.
I'm not, it's not something Inormally eat.
My white meat is fish and duckand is duck considered white
meat is duck, rabbit.
(10:18):
And I don't know about that PHEand grouse considered.
Wow.
Or, or white meat.
I have no clue.
I didn't, those things
Jordan (10:25):
vary infrequently.
Yeah.
I actually don't care for duck.
I don't either.
You don't.
I thought you did.
Okay.
Lindsay (10:32):
I like, I.
I liked it at the fine diningrestaurant that we used to work
at because they sous vide itright and they did it all right.
But at home, mmm, I leave that.
I do like duck poppers.
My husband makes duck popperswith like jalapenos and cream
cheese and bacon wraps.
That I like.
But like he does make, we havelike duck burger and we have
(10:54):
duck breast and stuff.
I don't care for it at home atall.
Yeah, interesting.
Um, but grouse is so yummy.
I just don't know if it'sconsidered white meat.
I haven't ever had, I don'tthink I've ever had grouse.
Oh, you'd love it.
Yeah.
Maybe if he can get some grousethis fall, we can get you some.
Cool.
Anyways, haha, I'm pregnant.
Hello, Lindsay's
Jordan (11:12):
pregnant too.
We're a couple of pregnantgirls.
So if we don't make a lot ofsense, or if we sound tired,
Yeah, or if our sentences run ona little too long, Sorry about
it.
Lindsay (11:23):
Yeah, it's just how it's gonna be right now.
I did come across a post lastnight on scrolling and I'm gonna
send it to you because it's kindof a post that's going around
about becoming a mom of two, youknow, a head.
It talks about you're going toget thrown in the deepest level
(11:45):
of postpartum again.
Like you did.
I was like, damn
Jordan (11:48):
nerds.
I know.
I feel that coming.
I feel that hard because I havebeen so exhausted.
Like, I was really tired with myfirst kid.
But I had the ability to liketake a nap anytime.
Yeah.
You know, and I had the abilityto like, just take my time
thinking about how I was goingto prepare.
Oh yeah.
(12:08):
Just, you know, like make myselffood, all those things that you
take for granted as a Child freeperson that are suddenly so much
harder to make the mental spacefor let alone the time space and
physical space for in life witha kid with a toddler.
Lindsay (12:24):
It's madness.
Jordan (12:26):
So this is a nice segue into what my topic is for today.
My main topic.
Um, My exhaustion is the segue.
I've been
Lindsay (12:35):
told, and I've been experiencing, and you obviously
have been experiencing, butbeing pregnant and raising a
toddler is by far way moreexhausting.
than anything in the world.
I literally just saw a postyesterday that like, it, that we
are pushing our endurance limitsclose to an Olympic athlete.
Jordan (12:55):
I honestly, dude, I feel that.
I, yeah.
At the end of the day, you'relike, Oh, especially if I've
worked that day, I worked threeshifts in a row this year.
It's like weekend ish.
And I, I was honestly like nottotally sure if I was gonna make
it.
Go back to work.
I'm like, oh my god, I justcouldn't, yeah, so, and the nice
thing about when I get tired isI turn into a real bitch.
(13:19):
Well, don't we all?
I ball my head off.
Yeah, I do that too.
But I just, first I get kind ofmean, which isn't great.
Well,
Lindsay (13:29):
here's the thing, it's like when we were talking about
short communication with yourspouse.
Huh.
There's no way you can likepractice not doing that, like,
or withholding from being thatshort communicator.
Yeah.
When you're in this.
It's so hard.
Yeah,
Jordan (13:44):
everything's so hard.
You just feel like you don'thave time for anything and
you're overstimulated to yourgills and yeah, all I want to do
is just like lay down in a darkcorner.
Space, but instead I'm likecooking lunch or you know,
something.
So anyway, I turn into, um, areal fun person to be around.
(14:05):
And as a result, of course, itmeans I've been arguing with my
partner more than I would liketo.
And so today I would like totalk about what happens when you
argue with your partner.
Yes.
And especially what happens whenyou argue with your partner in
front of your kid.
We try really hard to keep ourarguments short.
(14:25):
I mean, civil, first of all, ofcourse
Lindsay (14:28):
we try time for some, there's blowouts though, or like
blow ups.
Jordan (14:34):
Yeah.
Cause you're like, when,especially when you're pregnant,
your hormones are going crazy.
You're super tired.
You're just, like I said, you'rea wreck.
Lindsay (14:40):
You
Jordan (14:40):
almost have
Lindsay (14:41):
no tolerance for anything
Jordan (14:42):
out of your window of tolerance.
Yes.
Which we'll talk about.
Yes, exactly.
So, yeah, a couple of times thisweek, like this past month,
actually, me and my husband havebeen kind of, we've just been
arguing about really dumbthings.
Like it's nothing substantial.
It's nothing we shouldn't beable to work out like straight
away, but because we're both soexhausted and we have so much
(15:03):
going on and we have so littletime for each other and so much
coming up, it just seems tolike, Be so much harder to
regulate our nervous systems inthe moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we have done like an okayjob at not arguing in front of
our kid, but there were, therewas like one specific day when
we got into a pretty gnarlyargument.
In front of her and I, Ipersonally, like he was kind of
(15:25):
keeping his shit together, but Icould not keep my shit together
and I kind of just lost it.
Mm-Hmm.
And she ended up crying and Ilike the moment she started
crying.
I just like the, I felt like Igot smashed by a train.
Yeah.
I was like, oh my God.
Yeah.
I've never felt that feelingbefore.
I was like.
Made, like, oh, it was so yucky,I
Lindsay (15:47):
hated it
Jordan (15:47):
so much.
Lindsay (15:48):
Yeah, you're, it's, it's gonna happen, like I, that
part hasn't happened to me yet,but it's there.
My husband and I have not foughtmore in our lives since
postpartum, sorry, since themoment I brought her back home
from the hospital.
And um, Um, we go to couplestherapy and she like validates
(16:09):
and she's like, these are thetoughest years for a couple to
manage and get through like,okay.
So she's constantly reminding usto hear.
Yeah.
I mean, it is because she talkswith couples all day long she
has a spouse and a child and ayoung toddler as well.
And she's like, I'm, I'm therewith you.
(16:29):
I understand what you guys aregoing through.
Yeah.
I'm sorry that she cried.
Oh, that's, it was
Jordan (16:36):
so,
Lindsay (16:36):
it
Jordan (16:36):
was so awful, dude.
I can't like, yeah, I neverwant, I like looked at her and I
was like, I'm never going to dothat again.
And I probably will.
Cause I'm not perfect, but likein that moment I was like, okay,
this is something I need to lookinto.
I need to make sure that I haveall the information that I need
to give her the best experiencethat I can give her.
Because Things that I had heardbefore I like looked into it a
(16:57):
little bit are that it isactually important for your kid
to see you and your partnerarguing a conflict and
especially important to seethem, to see you resolve.
Yes.
Right.
So if you haven't heard that,that's like the basic one on one
stuff is like there will beconflict.
So do you and Andrew alreadyhave, like, before you went to
therapy, did you have, like, anestablished, like, argument
(17:21):
routine?
We, no,
Lindsay (17:23):
we were, well, okay, before we had a baby, kind of.
Sure.
Like, when we would cometogether at the end of the day,
or, or, and whatnot, because wewere both working jobs
separately from home andwhatever, then when we had her
and brought her home.
Um, there were needs that wereunmet on his end, needs that
were unmet on my end in themiddle of the day, all day
(17:44):
throughout the night.
So arguments were happeningwhenever so we're like, we're
having a hard time figuring outhow to transition into a family,
how to transition into a couple,like as parents, how to meet
each other's needs because nowthey're completely fricking
different than they ever were.
And, I am somebody that wasalways independent and didn't
really share my feelings a lotfrom my upbringing and now all
(18:06):
of a sudden I need to learn howto do that.
So we went to couples therapyand we went to a family
transitional therapist, couplestherapist, which was incredible.
And now they're structured in asense where She's down for a nap
time on the weekends, which Idon't necessarily like arguing
over the weekend because that'sour time as a family.
Or they're at the evening and Ihate arguing in the evenings
(18:29):
before bed.
Um, so unfortunately I just haveto like, have bed time.
Those are our times.
Yeah.
So now we just have certaintimes.
Yes.
Like we were at the parkyesterday in the morning.
We had an argument going on andI was, I had the dog on the
leash.
He was helping her up the slide.
I'm like, I'm going to take ourdog for a walk.
So I removed myself fromcontinuing the argument being
(18:53):
done in front of her.
And I gave myself time to think.
I'm sure he had time to think aswell, but I went away for a half
hour and walked her along theriver.
Jordan (19:00):
Yeah.
So you have you, would you sayyou've mostly been able to avoid
fighting in front of her or infront of her?
Yeah.
We're like, even
Lindsay (19:07):
before therapy.
No.
Okay.
Therapy has helped with that.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah.
Cool.
But, but, uh, but we also makeit a huge point to mend in front
of her.
Yeah.
And.
Jordan (19:19):
Yeah.
Cause that is the thing.
Like I said, that a lot ofpeople, a lot of people do focus
on is because arguments aresomewhat inevitable and
emotional reactions aredefinitely inevitable.
That the most important thingyou can do is come back and show
them how to mend.
Yes.
Yes.
So.
Yeah, I'll kind of get into thisand we'll, we'll touch base back
(19:40):
with the mending thing=in just aminute.
so I did some, you know, somelike pretty basic research about
this.
Obviously everyone's prettyfamiliar with the idea that
fighting in front of your kidsis going to cause issues and can
be detrimental so kids who justlike some basic little.
Fun facts here.
Yeah.
Not that fun.
Yeah.
Kids who are exposed to moreparental fighting, they're more
(20:01):
likely to suffer from depressionand anxiety, they have more
sleep issues, they can have moretrouble focusing, they tend to
perform less well in school.
Lindsay (20:10):
And that is all of me.
Yeah, because I didn't watch myparents mend.
Mm hmm.
They just fought the whole time.
Yeah, and I never saw them mendSo that was always I was always
questioning everything.
So everything you're listening.
Were you the
Jordan (20:23):
kind of kid who like would blame yourself?
Absolutely.
Oh really
Lindsay (20:26):
interesting cuz I'm like well if they're not mending
because of them too.
It's obviously like Me doingsomething.
Yeah.
Jordan (20:33):
I read that kids kind
Lindsay (20:34):
of have a tendency to do
Jordan (20:35):
that.
I didn't have that.
I didn't have that experience.
I definitely experienced myparents arguing a whole bunch
and I experienced, yeah,feelings of anxiousness and
sleep issues.
Yeah.
And like the year my parentsseparated, I definitely didn't
perform well.
And so I didn't pass fifth gradetechnically, like I did cause
I'd like, they let me go onbecause I was definitely
(20:56):
capable.
But
Lindsay (20:57):
yeah, everything you're listing is accurate, like
Jordan (21:00):
fully accurate.
And then of course they willstruggle most likely with their
own ability to manage conflictand handle emotional experiences
in any kinds of relationshipsthey have as they get older.
That's all stuff we kind of likehave an awareness of, right?
I'm not like bringing any newinformation to the table there,
but something that I did findreally interesting was that.
(21:21):
Kids as little as infants liketiny tiny infants experience a
rise in blood pressure when inthe presence of arguing adults
Which is wild and even baby'sbrains when they're sleeping
reacts to angry times Inpeople's voices Wow
Lindsay (21:37):
like they're woken up from it and not
Jordan (21:39):
necessarily even woken up But that their brains like
that there was a research doneat the University of Oregon.
I believe I'll link to theresearch in the show notes, but
basically, yeah, it was sayingthat suggesting that babies,
even when they're sleeping, evenwhen they're infants are still
negatively impacted potentiallyby arguing, which is kind of
wild.
It does make sense, but I, like,I remember when my kid was tiny
(22:00):
thinking like, you know, whenshe was an infant thinking to
myself, Oh, we had an argument.
This is the kind of thing we'regoing to need to watch out for
as she gets older andunderstands.
Right.
Cause you're like, she won'tremember it now, but, and
doesn't really know what's goingon.
Like I do get, like, I dobelieve that the energy and the
vibe that you're feeling yourkid picks up on for sure, but
(22:21):
it's hard to see it like inwriting.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, I thought that wasreally interesting and kind of
crazy.
Like there's really no good ageto argue in front of your kid.
Yeah.
So that's a little fun, a littlebit of fun to make you feel
really good about the argumentyou had last with your partner.
So whether or not it can beproductive is something that was
(22:43):
kind of the driving questionthat I had because I had heard
like it is good to have conflictwith your partner.
It helps your kid to managetheir expectations of
relationships in the real worldand to manage their own emotions
when they do come up and not tofeel like shame about them.
And to me that makes a lot ofsense.
As long as like we've said acouple of times now the mending
process happens in front of them
Lindsay (23:04):
Yeah, and you also show respect during the argument,
too.
Jordan (23:07):
That's definitely a big part of it So I was looking at a
little interview done with a mannamed John Gottman.
Oh, yeah Yeah, I mean mostpeople have done probably
marriage counseling have he's avery very prolific marriage
therapist and has done tons ofresearch.
I think he's at the universityof Washington, if I'm not
(23:29):
mistaken, but he's like theelite researcher in marriage,
uh, success and divorce.
And he says, and this isn'tgoing to bring anyone any
comfort.
He says you should justabsolutely never, ever argue in
front of your kid period.
Yeah.
So that was, that's probably whywe've,
Lindsay (23:50):
that's probably why I'm noticing.
So our therapist, she's Big on alot of his tools that's probably
why some of our arguments havechanged more Like during her
sleep time or during is
Jordan (24:01):
that that's something she's had to focus on is just
Lindsay (24:03):
like taking time.
Yeah.
Setting time aside for talkingabout all these issues that
become arguments.
Yeah.
So, and, and that's like,obviously something we need to
schedule into our calendar andwe do, and it's not something
you want.
And then all of a sudden, well,then all of a sudden we're
finding ourselves like needingto schedule them more often.
Like specific discussions don'tneed to happen once a month.
(24:23):
They need to happen maybe once aweek.
Dang.
Jordan (24:26):
Yeah.
But it does need to happen andit is important.
Yeah, so basically he says,Obviously, you're going to
argue, but it should alwayshappen outside of the acoustic
range of your kid so thatthey're protected from ever
hearing the argument.
Um, he does say that it could,it could be a good idea once
your kids are teenagers.
Lindsay (24:43):
What age do you like teach them how to argue?
So like when they're like,basically
Jordan (24:48):
when they're teenagers, they'll have like the frontal
lobe.
I'm assuming frontal lobecapacity, um, cause that's your
reasoning and stuff.
helps you regulate emotions andeverything, but that's like when
they're old enough that you can,he says you can like role play
certain arguments that you'vehad.
But like having already resolvedthem so that the big
(25:09):
Dysregulated nervous systemfeelings aren't coming up for
you when you're role playingthem got it Which I was like,
um, that's like something tothink about way down the line.
Yeah Whoa, that'd be so true.
It's so hard
Lindsay (25:20):
Especially right now when you and I are pregnant and
our emotions are flaring up Justa big ol river.
Just a
Jordan (25:27):
flowing river.
It's hard work.
It's crazy, dude.
It's so crazy.
I did also find on the GottmanInstitute website, and this was
an article not written by JohnGottman himself, but just
somebody on his Institute team,an article that seems to sort of
disagree with what he says, atleast a little bit.
Um, it suggests that it could bebeneficial to argue To argue in
(25:48):
front of your kids, but with abig, like, however, like, you
know, yeah, there's a bigcaveat.
Put
Lindsay (25:54):
up, make sure, like, imagine a spotlight in the room
on both of you because you'relike on stage for your child.
Yeah, totally.
And that's
Jordan (26:01):
kind of, you kind of like make that the driving
purpose.
So it gives guidelines aboutexactly how to do it and how not
to do it.
The big, how not to do it.
So we'll just get that out ofthe way.
They're fairly obvious, butworth mentioning.
Never use verbal aggression, sono name calling, no insulting
your partner, no threateningyour partner, and definitely
(26:23):
never talk about, like, leavingeach other in front of your kid,
because that can be terrifying.
Never use physical aggressionand that could be obviously
like, you know, hitting yourpartner, but can be something
like I, one time slamming a cup.
Totally.
Like there was one time when Iwas pregnant with my first kid,
she, luckily that's as around asshe was.
I even feel guilty arguing.
(26:45):
As a pregnant person, just,yeah, still feels uncomfy, but I
was, uh, very dysregulated thismorning and I was so, I don't
remember what about somethingstupid probably, but I like
smashed a plate on the floor andthat's like the most dramatic
thing I think I've ever done inmy life, but that would be
physical aggression too, I wouldargue, like throwing things or
hitting a wall or the table.
(27:06):
So, none of that.
never stonewall or use thesilent treatment in front of
your kids.
You might think that that, Ipersonally wouldn't have really
thought of that one as beingsomething that's super
detrimental to their well beingbecause it's kind of like
passive in a way.
Yeah, yeah.
But, uh, when you start to thinkabout it, it does make sense.
Then they pick up on that.
Like you're really not showingthem how to communicate or
(27:27):
Right, right.
connect with somebody who you'restruggling with.
Mm hmm.
So
Lindsay (27:31):
that's really important.
We call timeouts.
to help with the stonewalling.
Interesting.
Um, so we just call timeouts andthen whoever decides to to call
the timeout has to come back.
Oh cool.
And set the time.
Oh that's a good idea.
They set the time.
So like I'm not gonna stonewallbut I need 10 minutes or I need
30 minutes.
(27:52):
That's a really good idea.
So we set 30 minute timer butthat person that set the time.
Is the one who has to come back.
Yes.
I actually love
Jordan (27:58):
that.
I do.
That would help me and mypartner a lot.
Yeah.
I'm going to use that.
Did you, did you pick that up intherapy or?
Yeah, that's a good one.
Oh, I'm totally.
Yeah.
Okay.
So then we can move forward.
The house, keep yourself calm.
First focus on your breathing ifyou need to, and then make it a
point of really listening toyour partner.
Like almost make it yourpriority.
(28:20):
Listen before you like, listento her.
Yeah, totally.
Listen to everything.
to collaborate and problemsolve, they say this is really
cool to do in front of your kid,but you have to do so in a calm
and present way.
And that's like, doesn't evenfeel like an argument to me.
So I think that's kind of wherethis is coming from.
Like you can have these likequote unquote arguments with
your partner, but you arebasically you're not fighting in
(28:43):
any sense of the word.
You're really just Ofrecognizing that there's
something you don't agree aboutand, like, very calmly figuring
out a way to,, settle thedisagreement.
They say be careful with thewords you use.
Use I statements like I think, Ifeel, which can help you focus
on your experience rather thanpushing blame.
It's like less threatening andaggressive toward your partner.
(29:03):
And then ultimately, like,basically, the long and the
short of it is keep your coolphysiologically.
Like, keep your nervous systemregulated, and the moment that
you can't do that anymore, itbasically turns into a
conversation that just full stopshould not be had in front of
your kid.
Yes.
So that was pretty much mytakeaway.
It's like, it's basically okayto have an argument in front of
(29:24):
your kid, but like you can't getworked up emotionally in a
fighting context in front ofyour kid with your partner,
which, uh, something I'm justgoing to have to work on.
Dude, it's hard
Lindsay (29:39):
when you're not, when you're not taught the tools it's
a whole thing as an adult tofigure out.
You've never been pregnantbefore and all these emotions
have never happened to youbefore.
So this is all brand new.
Mm hmm.
I look back at our day we gotmarried and I'm like, we had no
idea what was coming.
We were like making these vows,you know, obvious for obviously
(30:01):
all the trouble all of the daysahead.
But we really didn't understand.
of like those, you know, vowsand all like what was really
going to be hard ahead.
Yeah.
And I look back at that, I'mlike, man, did we, we didn't
know.
Yeah.
I felt
Jordan (30:17):
that way when me and my partner were separated on
different, like in differentcountries.
That was when I felt like thatfelt harder to me than parenting
so far has.
Wow.
That's impressive.
Well, yeah.
I mean.
Those are hard days.
Yeah.
It's just, you can just, it'sone of those things.
You get tossed into the deep endand you just have to do what
(30:37):
you've got to do.
Lindsay (30:38):
Yeah.
Jordan (30:39):
But yeah, it's just important to come in toward each
other and recognize that you'rea team and you're working
together rather than turn awayfrom each other.
And that's another big thingthat I've heard John Gottman
say.
Lindsay (30:48):
Yeah.
He's big on like, it is not.
Me versus you.
Yeah, you have to rememberyou're a team.
Yeah, we practice a lot of termlike we, us, together, like
those words have to come up inour arguments.
Jordan (31:02):
Yeah, that's, I mean, it's smart.
A couple little things I foundinteresting, just to move us
along here, there was a NotreDame university psychologist
named Mark Cummings, who's donea ton of research on arguing in
front of kids.
And one of the things he foundthat was really interesting to
me.
is that before age 11, so thisgoes on with like the mending
thing.
Before age 11, kids seem to needto see parents physically making
(31:25):
up.
So it's actually not, yeah, it'snot enough to like just come to,
it's not enough to like have thevibe checked and bring kids in.
Bring yourselves back to likekind words to each other.
He says that the more importantthing for you to do is yeah.
Tons of hugs, lots of physicalaffection at kisses.
Like he says that that showsyour child until they're 11 or
(31:46):
older.
That's the thing that yourchild's going to see and
understand as you've now solvedthe issue, which I thought was
super interesting.
Cause me and my husband don'treally do it.
That's too much when we mend ourarguments in front of our kid.
Mm hmm.
So, yeah, that's something thatI found useful and I will
definitely take away.
And there was another pretty bigstudy that found it didn't
(32:08):
really matter whether theargument was even resolved.
So the mending thing kind oflike gets kicked away a little
bit here.
But the thing that mattered washow often and how intensely
parents argued.
That was the biggest factor innegative outcomes.
Yeah.
If
Lindsay (32:21):
they don't mend.
I would imagine the argumentsare going to escalate.
Like, yeah, I mean, I guess
Jordan (32:26):
that's true.
So there will be still acorrelation between mending the
argument generally.
Yeah.
But it didn't matter whetherthey like mended it the kid or
not necessarily.
It was just like, how much, howoften are you arguing and how
intense is the argument getting?
Which I feel a little betterabout.
Cause even though we're in likea little bit of a phase of
arguing a lot more than we'reused to, it's, it's not, it's
(32:49):
for the most part, it's not toointense and doesn't last very
long.
Yeah.
So that's kind of, you know, asmuch as I will get into for like
the research part of this, and Ihave said a few actionable
things and given a little bit ofadvice so far, but I have kind
of like four main actionablepoints to make that parents can
do to navigate big feelings thatcan lead to a conflict or having
(33:10):
fights or arguments in front ofyour kids.
And the first one, actually, Iwas hoping you could come in
with, because this is somethingLindsay taught me about that she
learned in therapy called thewindow of tolerance.
I believe we love this.
Lindsay (33:22):
Yeah, the window of tolerance is a concept that
describes like a range ofemotional intensities that a
person can have.
So Dan Siegel, he's a clinicaloffice or clinical professor of
psychiatry at the UCLA school ofmedicine.
He created this in 1999, whichseems insanely long time ago.
(33:47):
Oh my gosh.
I feel like that, that thisshould have been on billboards
on highways.
Like what's your window oftolerance today?
Okay.
but anyways, we just learnedabout this in 2024.
Still useful, everybody.
Yep, it is.
So what the window of toleranceis, is this is a concept.
If you can imagine what a windowlooks like, you have.
(34:07):
A window seal that goes acrossin the middle part.
Some, I mean, your window sealsin this basement and go
vertical, but imagine a box andit has like a top portion and a
bottom portion.
And, the window of tolerance isthe box itself outside of that
window on top, you have hyperarousal and hyper arousal is,
(34:29):
you're outside of your tolerancefor anything in general.
Jordan (34:33):
Imagine just your fuse is no longer short, it's gone,
anxious,
Lindsay (34:36):
angry.
You're out of control, you'reoverwhelmed.
Okay?
So.
You start reflecting on whatcould possibly make you out of
your window of tolerance themoment you wake up in the day.
Yours would obviously be, I'mvery pregnant.
I don't have a lot of patiencefor X, Y, Z today.
Yeah, I'm exhausted.
Honestly, like fatigue simplypushes me outside of that
window.
You are not sitting at thatmiddle, Part of the window,
(34:57):
you're already kind of above it.
Yeah.
And that's something veryimportant for your husband to,
or your, your partner to know.
And recognize.
And recognize.
Totally.
Okay.
And that helps with argumentsthat potentially could happen
throughout the day.
Right.
Jordan (35:11):
That's what I was gonna say.
Like, if, if I can recognizethat my husband's outside of his
kind of window of tolerance.
If I, if I look at him and I'mlike, okay.
He looks like he is reallypushing the edge of his window
of tolerance if not has likeescaped it This might not be the
best time to tell him that hedidn't make the bed this
morning.
Yes Something stupid right
Lindsay (35:33):
exactly.
So you're you're this is like away of Understanding what your
spouse is going through in themoment or and during the day To,
yeah, like you just said, tobring an argument up or not.
Jordan (35:43):
Or even just to like, I think something that is really
cool about this is that it putsyou in a position where you're
getting in the habit of lookingat things from their perspective
before asking yourself, do Iwant to say this or bring this
up right now?
Lindsay (35:58):
Exactly.
So when you see yourself outsideof the window, it won't take
much at all to throw you off.
And that's where I think a lotof new parents are like, Dealing
with.
Jordan (36:09):
Yeah, because their window of tolerance is, they're
just way outside of it.
Lindsay (36:13):
The mental load of everything in one day, in one 24
hour period of time, is throwingyou out of the window already.
Like, I'm sorry, but, especiallyif you don't have a lot of help.
Like, helping.
Yeah, even if you do have a lotof help.
Yeah.
It's hard.
Yeah.
So, hyperarousal is essentiallya way of reacting.
(36:34):
Hypoarousal is below the window.
So, this is a type of personthat might be just completely
zoned out.
There's so much going on.
They're overstimulated.
They're just shutting down.
Shutting down.
And so, do you find yourselffrozen or spacey?
Your body just wants to choosenothing to do anymore.
You're not choosing to just donothing, but you're just tapped
(36:54):
out.
Yeah.
Burned out.
You know, my husband comes homefrom work some days and
sometimes I want to know what'sbothering him.
And some days I'm just need tolet him not discuss it because
he feels better being home thanat work, but he's, he taps out,
he's not fully himself.
And I have to recognize, okay,he's out of his window of
tolerance.
He's in hypo arousal.
(37:15):
He's had a really long day.
I'm not going to talk to himabout something that could cause
an argument right now.
Or,
Jordan (37:22):
or like, and, and when you're looking at that, you're
not thinking to yourself, likeyou're, it's giving you the
tools to not be blamingyourself.
Yeah, because you've had aconversation.
You understand that one of thethings that pushes him outside
of his window is a tough day atwork.
He comes home from work.
It's been a tough day.
You can look at him and be like,Oh, this is the thing we talked
about.
Yep.
(37:42):
I have to fully trust.
Lindsay (37:44):
Yeah, I just learned, that I have to trust His bad day
has nothing to do with me.
Yeah.
And that's hard for me becauseas a child, yeah, I reflected a
lot on all of it having to dowith me.
So if he comes home from workand he's crabby, I really wanted
him to come home from work andas a, you know, like where
you're really excited to haveyou home.
(38:04):
But if he's not there yet, Ihave to just trust that I'm not
the problem.
So yeah, window of tolerance isawesome.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's
Jordan (38:12):
yeah.
So that's my first.
Yeah.
Um, you know, maybe not easy,but my first little bit of
actionable advice for if you'restruggling with this.
So my second little bit ofadvice is something I already
mentioned, which is learn tolisten first.
This is so much easier said thandone when you have an emotional
response to something and youdon't feel like your partner is
seeing or hearing you and youjust desperately need to be
(38:34):
validated.
Yes.
I totally get that.
Lindsay (38:37):
Yeah.
Jordan (38:38):
But something that's really good to practice is just
use your active listening.
So fully listen to what yourpartner has to say.
And then when you, when they'refinished saying that thing, let
them give you space to summarizewhat they've said and repeat it
back to them as you understandit.
So you could say something thatcould be like, you seemed to get
really frustrated when I blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
(38:59):
Or when I said this, that reallyhurt your feelings.
am I understanding youcorrectly?
And then, You know, you can kindof take it from there and it's
gonna take some practice becauseyou're never gonna be like
totally dead on And even if youare there those feelings are
still gonna exist.
Yeah But that's something thatreally helps to calm me down in
an argument and it's a tool thatI use with my kid Oh, yeah, I'm
(39:21):
like understand something thatyou seem you know, like it's so
easy for me to see my kid and belike Oh are you Are you feeling
frustrated right now?
And then she's like, yeah, andwe talk about it.
And I guess cause toddlers dothings that are like, seems so
incidental to us.
Like their frustrations justseem kind of like trivial, but
if we can take, like, if Ipersonally could take that same
approach with my partner and belike, Oh, you seem really
(39:45):
frustrated that I did thisthing.
That makes, and then like, justkind of bring it down to that
toddler level.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It'll help you to chill out.
Yeah.
It helps to calm me down a lot.
Um, and that brings me to thenext point.
My third little actionablething.
This is something called thesecond position.
This is a trick I learned manyyears ago when I was, working
with a mental resiliencetraining company.
(40:08):
This is, kind of a tactic youcan use in any relationship, but
I do find it the most useful,like, in your relationship with
your partner.
So basically the idea is, thereare three positions, first,
second, and third position,right?
In first position, It's kind ofjust like where we operate from.
You're like thinking of kind ofyourself and the way you are
(40:29):
responding to everything in yourenvironment.
Second position is doing thesame thing, but from another
person's perspective, it's justlike walking in someone else's
shoes, basically.
So when I see that my partner'sfrustrated, The best thing I can
do is, or sad, or if they'rehaving an emotion that I'm not
understanding, is to try and putmyself, really put myself, like
(40:49):
mentally,
Lindsay (40:50):
in their, in their
Jordan (40:52):
position and look at things from where they are
sitting.
If you're struggling to do this,there's a crazy little hack that
is, Mind bendingly effective.
So, what you do is, and this is,this will work if you're trying
to understand what kind ofemotion anyone is going through.
We have mirror neurons, we havereally, really innate
understanding of people's facialexpressions.
(41:15):
Oh yeah.
Even you wear
Lindsay (41:16):
expressions.
So if like you wear it on yoursleeve, you can tell what
they're like
Jordan (41:19):
going through, even if they don't.
So like sometimes, sometimes myhusband's like kind of just
like, you know, like reserved alittle bit.
But if I look at him and you tryto mimic the facial expression
that they're making, even justnot like blatantly.
'cause that'll probably justsend them be like, whatcha,
whatcha doing?
But if you just like look attheir face.
(41:39):
And imagine that you're makingthat face and wow, like micro
muscles in your own face to likejust kind of get an idea of what
their face is doing that willput you in their frame of mind
and like give you the emotion.
So you have that.
It's crazy.
Try it.
Okay.
I will super cool.
It's really wild.
Um, so you can try that ifyou're like really struggling to
(42:02):
just put yourself there becauseyour own mind is racing.
Just say, okay, I'm going tostep outside of myself.
And just mimic the face facialexpression and see what happens
just see what happens.
It's wild and then the thirdposition that I mostly was just
wanting to talk about the secondposition, but third positions
since I mentioned it is when youare able to Take yourself and
(42:23):
basically put yourself outsideOf the context looking in yeah
So if I like for example thelast time my husband and I
argued I went outside for asecond You Got a visual
Lindsay (42:34):
of like what it was like inside.
Yeah,
Jordan (42:36):
like I just kind of removed myself, pictured the
scene inside that I had justlived through, and tried to find
compassion for both of them.
Parties and see if I could seewhat happened without the, but
you kind of like detach from theemotion first.
So something that really helpsfor that is to like shake your
body really quickly and you'rejust like, wiggle everything
out.
(42:56):
It's like a little nervoussystem.
Lindsay (42:58):
Or
Jordan (42:58):
dance if you are a dancey person.
Yeah, you probably aren't.
Okay, so then the fourth thing,um, this one's a little bit
quicker, but the fourth thing issomething that I would like to
implement that I haven't yet.
Okay.
Which is to have a specificphrase that you can use, and
obviously you'd have to promiseeach other.
(43:19):
You'll respect the other personusing that and hold yourselves
accountable.
But like, have a phrase thattells the other person that
you're getting too worked up andthat this needs to be a
conversation that's had lateroutside of the presence of your
kids.
So something like, I'm feelinglike this could work me up.
Let's maybe return to thisconversation when we have more
space.
And if you have the practice,like the mental rehearsal of.
(43:40):
doing this before you'reactually in the negative
context, then when the negativecontext comes up, both you and
your partner are equipped tolike take that time and space
and then create space to makethe conversation happen later.
Of course.
That's yeah.
So you can just say, what timecan we talk about this?
Yep.
And then you make a plan to talkabout it.
And your kid's not around andyou have hopefully avoided Yeah,
(44:03):
that argument.
Yeah, so those are four littletips for everyone to try and use
if you are finding yourself in achapter of life where you're
struggling with arguments.
I love that.
Yeah.
This is a good episode so far.
Oh, if it's a big one.
It feels like a lot.
But anyway, yeah, so the keytakeaway, it's actually super
important.
Like the mending thing isimportant if you find yourself
(44:24):
arguing, but I think that weshould all probably prioritize
the time side.
Yep.
And not having to argue.
Not, I think arguing anddisagreeing in front of your kid
is fine.
I think if you're feeling likeyour nervous system is
dysregulating, it's time to,yeah, you don't want to get to a
disrespectful situation.
Nope.
So yeah, that's what I'm goingto be working on.
(44:47):
Let me know how it goes for youall.
Lindsay (44:49):
Probably going to be working on it forever.
I think so.
Jordan (44:52):
I definitely think so.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Anyway, take
Lindsay (44:56):
us away from this, Lindsay.
Yeah, this is like really goingto take us away.
Okay.
Cool.
We're trending now.
Okay.
so something I'm coming acrosson my social media, and I know
that algorithms are a thing,but, this is also really big in
the, natural holistic, realm oftaking care of your body.
(45:17):
I'm seeing it especially with,pregnancy how to take care of
yourself before and after I'meven seeing it now like, I don't
know if this has something to dowith the big tampon scandal that
happened like a month ago, but alot of us women are having
issues with pain in our pelvicregion and with our uterus and
our ovaries and just all kindsof like issues.
(45:37):
This is something that'strending really cool.
It's called, A castor oil pack.
Okay.
So you're probably like, what isthat?
I am like, I mean, I've
Jordan (45:45):
heard of it's really, really bizarre.
Lindsay (45:48):
So I use castor oil on my face.
Okay.
I've used it in my hair before.
It does need like an extracarrier oil to go with it.
Cause it's very thick and it'svery sticky and it just works
better when it has a carrieroil.
So right now I'm using it on myface with jojoba oil and
frankincense.
essential oil.
Nice.
It's really nice.
I really can tell thedifference.
My face is cleaned up quite abit.
(46:08):
Your face does look great.
Yeah, like I've always, I'vestruggled a lot with acne out
here in the dry desert climate.
But, um, since using castor oil,wowza, I'm like really seeing
the benefits.
Cool.
So a castor oil pack is alsoreally great.
This is something that is likecastor, warmed castor oil,
literally poured onto a thickorganic cotton wrap that can go
(46:32):
So you just take fabric and pour
Jordan (46:34):
castor oil on it and wrap has to be thick
Lindsay (46:36):
because you really want, you have to pour a lot of
castor oil on this sucker.
And so, so what you want is youhave castor oil, one, and it
just, it really truly needs tobe like organic, cold pressed,
unrefined castor oil.
Because you don't want extraingredients that are in this
castor oil entering yourbloodstream.
Sure.
Through your, through your skinvessels and such.
Right.
And then you need, a pack, whichis a wrap that goes around the
(47:00):
abdomen.
I think people use these aroundjoints too, that I've like, had
issues, if people have like kneejoint issues, they make little
packs that you can put aroundyour knee joints and such.
So this is
Jordan (47:09):
like a pain relief thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Lindsay (47:12):
And if you find yourself constipated or it can
increase air circulation, it canimprove like skin.
Yeah, I'll get to that point,but you have your castor oil,
you have your castor oil wrap,thick organic cotton.
Again, you don't want dyes inthis fabric or anything like
that because that will seep itthrough into your skin from the
(47:32):
oil.
You do not want that.
and what you do is, like, youbasically just, you have your
warm pack, you can warm it up,you can warm up the castor oil,
do not use a microwave to warmthese things up, there's
radiation, well fuck it allhappens.
So you can warm this up, like,over the stove, over the stove
top, in a pan, and you can thenpour it onto the pack.
Lay the pack over your abdomenThis is where I'm most commonly
(47:55):
seeing it is over the abdomen.
Okay, and so Go ahead.
Yeah, so it's used to solve likepassing stool if you're
constipated It's used to helpwith hemorrhoids Cysts,
fibroids, adhesions, scartissue, if you say you've had
like laparoscopic surgery or Csection.
Yes.
Yeah.
Endometriosis, it can help withit.
(48:17):
These, this does not cure thesethings.
FYI.
Sure.
It's just really helps.
Like a symptom relief.
Yeah.
Okay.
Symptom relief.
And it can really help alleviatethe condition as well.
It can help with PCOS, poor eggquality, bladder, digestive
issues, um, fatty liver.
A lot of people will have a bigenough pack to put over the
liver and that can help withlike a fatty liver, high
(48:40):
cholesterol, detox situation.
Interesting.
It's really cool.
It's really fascinating.
I, I have not personally tried acastor oil pack on my abdomen
before, but I'm very intriguedto and I'm going to, I, I'm I'm
curious on doing it when I'mconstipated after having my
child.
Jordan (48:57):
Yeah.
I was going to say, do, do youhave people do this during
pregnancy?
They do not.
Okay.
So you
Lindsay (49:02):
can do it.
Three to four times a week.
I got to sit with this thing onfor like 45 minutes to an hour.
So, this has to be Sorry aboutit toddler moms, this is not for
us.
Yeah, this is like somethingthat like, if you can find
yourself relaxing for an hourwithout interruption, give it a
try, um, there's a time to do itduring your, during your cycle.
(49:26):
if you're actively trying toconceive, Use it only during the
first part of your menstrualcycle.
Oh, okay.
Because you don't really, ifyou're gonna bleed during your
menstrual cycle, you don't wantto bleed more.
Sure.
This creates a lot of blood flowand a lot of detoxing.
that.
So this is something that'sadvised to use I would say end
of menstruation, maybe that lastday.
Yeah, sure.
(49:47):
Um, up until the time of yourovulation.
So.
Date like two weeks you could dothis three to four times a day
because ovulation is typicallyfour times a day Sorry, three to
four times a week No three tofour times a week You want to
test this to make sure that thisis chill for your body first?
(50:09):
Yeah, do a small patch of yourskin for 24 hours like moving
forward with a big wrap.
This can cause like diarrhea ifafter the first time you do it.
So maybe 45 minutes to an hourisn't ideal.
The first time you do it, workyour way up.
Other times you want to avoidusing it is if you're
(50:29):
breastfeeding or, if you'repregnant, big, big no, no.
Okay.
So if you're breastfeeding, youshould do a wrap even on your
abdomen.
The effects that this castor oilhas isn't known yet for how it
would affect a baby.
Jordan (50:41):
So I think I've seen castor oil, like the only time
that this sounded familiar whenyou started talking about it was
during.
Like, I swear I saw people doingcasserole packs, like,
immediately postpartum.
But is that not a thing, do youthink, because of the
breastfeeding thing?
Or is that maybe just somethingpeople do anyway?
Because there's always peoplewho are, like, comfortable with
(51:04):
that uncertainty.
Lindsay (51:04):
See, I personally kind of want to try it for
constipation.
Yeah.
And, but I guess something thatI would recommend if you, if
you're having a C section, youcan't use this on like an, a
fresh incision.
Sure.
You have to wait until probablyafter.
I've seen too many infectedincisions come back with people
trying to do like home remediesand you're like, you can not put
(51:28):
this kind of oil on like aincision or essential oils in
any incision.
Yeah oh, another thing too.
so obviously if you're usinglike this piece of fabric, you
can buy all this fabric Amazon.
You obviously aren't going tobe, you want to use that again,
right?
If you're going to do it likemulch, so don't throw it away
and don't buy it like pack afterpack after pack.
(51:49):
So you can bundle this thingafter you're done using it.
After your time of rest is over,you can bundle this up and put
it like in a Ziploc bag and putit in your fridge.
Oh, okay.
But don't put it on your bodycold again.
Like take it out of the fridgewhen next time you're ready to
use it, use warm castor oil fromthe stovetop.
(52:09):
You could use a heat pack tokeep like bundle it up, roll it
up in a heating pad or warmwater bottles.
Yeah.
That kind of thing.
So yeah.
Cool.
Wrap it up, save it for later.
Jordan (52:20):
That's good to know.
That's a time saving step.
Yeah, for sure.
So Castor
Lindsay (52:25):
Oil Packs are really interesting.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, I think I would like todive into more about using it
postpartum.
Yeah, you'll have to let meknow.
Jordan (52:32):
Maybe that's something we can touch base on later once
we've actually figured that out.
We're not there yet, guys.
We're not there yet.
We got time.
Yeah, that's awesome.
We feel like we think we havetime.
Oh, geez, yeah.
sweet.
Well, I've got a recommendationfor this week.
Yeah.
For there.
Okay.
Okay.
This is like, not going to soundeven true, but I'm telling you
(52:55):
guys, this is legit.
Okay.
So there's a recipe forChocolate chip cookies that I'm
obsessed with, okay?
The one that you share with me.
Yeah.
So I'm not a freaking, like, so,okay, I've got nothing, I
totally understand people havedietary needs and restrictions,
like, I've been there, I get it,I'm like, with you, in spirit.
(53:19):
Yeah.
If not, in like, I still eatdairy and gluten, but this is a
gluten free and dairy freechocolate chip cookie recipe
that I still prefer to everyother chocolate chip because
it's the tahini.
It's so good.
It's so good.
Yeah.
So they're tahini chocolate chipcookies.
And the recipe is basicallylike, I'll just kind of list the
(53:40):
ingredients.
So if you can't have them, youcan just like be like,
nevermind.
But it's basically like almondflour, Lots of tahini.
I sometimes will throw even likea little bit of peanut butter,
like do part tahini, part peanutbutter, that slaps.
baking soda, an egg, chocolatechips.
And maple syrup.
Like, that's it.
And then you can throw somecollagen peptides in there if
you want to.
(54:00):
The first time you brought themover, I ate them all.
Dude, it's I was like, that's mysnack.
It's so good.
And it feels like semi guilforybecause you're like, there's not
refined sugar.
Yeah.
There's not like tons of, Idon't feel that bad about eating
butter, but there's not liketons of butter or shortening.
I did
Lindsay (54:18):
not feel like shit.
You feel so good after it's like
Jordan (54:21):
rejuvenating.
The tahini has like magicalproperties that make you feel
like a unicorn after you eatthem.
So go try this recipe.
So hang on, let me find it.
Lindsay (54:29):
It's so delish.
It's there.
Yeah.
I craved those like two nightsago, I think.
I craved them all the time.
I was like, man, I kind of wantchocolate chip cookies in the
oven.
I was like, I know a recipe thatI could really love to enjoy.
Oh, they're
Jordan (54:43):
so good.
Okay, so to find the recipe,because I don't want to give you
the whole recipe, but I'mtelling you, try these before
you like, disregard me.
Please just try them.
the recipe is at, it's a foodblog called Kale Junkie.
Like, K L K A L E junkie dotcom, or just, this is what I do
to find it every time, justgoogle life changing chocolate
(55:06):
chip tahini cookies and this iswhat will pop up.
just do yourself a favor, makethese cookies, do not skip on
the salt, like, if you don'thave Maldon salt at home, it
tells you to put a little Maldonsalt on top before you Oh, she's
got a lot of
Lindsay (55:20):
tahini recipes, that's cool.
Yeah, I'm not too surprised, Ihaven't
Jordan (55:23):
tried any other ones, but yeah, put, if you don't put
salt on top, you can use Maldonsalt on top, or you can just use
regular salt on top, mineralsalt on, whatever you have, or
you can throw some salt in therecipe, but you definitely need
a little bit of salt.
On top.
Oh yeah.
Somewhere.
Yes.
Just generally.
Yum.
If you don't put salt on top,then put salt in the dough.
They're so good.
They're crazy good.
(55:44):
Yeah.
That's my, I was like cravingthose the other day and I was
like, I should recommend thoseon the podcast because it's
seriously one of my favoriterecipes of all time.
Lindsay (55:51):
Cool.
I should check out her othertahini recipes because that,
that ingredient, that ingredientIt is so yum.
Jordan (55:58):
It is yum.
And you can get some relativelyinexpensive organic tahini from
Trader Joe's that works reallynicely.
Yes, that's where we
Lindsay (56:03):
get ours too.
I just went to her website anddid the search and just typed in
tahini and like that's where alot of other recipes and that
obvious cookie one came up.
Jordan (56:13):
Yeah.
Cool.
Go make them.
Tahini
Lindsay (56:16):
chocolate chip freezer fudge.
Okay.
I'm not a fudgy kind of girl butI would try tahini fudge to see
if I could.
I sure
Jordan (56:22):
would.
Lindsay (56:23):
Yum.
Wow.
Jordan (56:24):
Look, we'll let you know how the other recipes go.
Lindsay (56:28):
Oh, spicy tahini noodles.
Okay.
This is making me hungry.
Awesome.
Jordan (56:36):
I love it.
All right.
Well, that's all we've got foryou then today.
I hope you enjoyed listening to,uh, my calamities and my window
of tolerance and castor oilpacks.
Yeah.
Bye.
Just.
Switch it up.
Cookies.
Switch it up.
Oh, cool.
Well, we will come at you soon,um, maybe by the next time we,
(56:57):
I'm not sure if the next time werecord, I will have had a, or
we, nevermind, I was going tosay maybe by the next time we
release an episode, I will have
Lindsay (57:03):
had a kid.
Yeah.
We'll be recording.
Yeah.
I think a few more times, right?
Yeah.
And then we're not likereleasing them because we
obviously have work to do and wehave edits and we have busy
lives.
So we'll see where we get to.
Yeah.
Jordan (57:17):
But yeah.
Cheers.
I hope you all have a lovely,whatever time of day it is for
you.
Yeah.
Or time of year.
Exactly.
When this releases.
We'll see.
Oh, I should have said..
Like us.
Oh yeah.
If you want to follow us onsocial media.
Yeah.
Lindsay (57:32):
This has been great.
Um, please like.
Subscribe.
Please subscribe.
Please rate us.
Please leave a fun review.
If you want to.
It feels great.
We love it.
Like, we love it.
It just makes us feel likethere's more.
Friends out there thatunderstand.
Yeah We love friends going on.
Yeah,
Jordan (57:51):
everybody needs a good good friend.
Of
Lindsay (57:53):
course
Jordan (57:53):
Um, well, you can find us on Instagram and we have kids
podcast and yeah, we will checkyou guys soon Have a good one
because we're both so exhausted and we have so much
going on and we have so littletime for each other and so much
coming up, it just seems tolike, Be so much harder to
regulate our nervous systems inthe moment.
And we're going there.
Okay, sweet.
Oh, what's that noise?
Is that me?
(00:20):
That was you.
I think it was your breathing.
Lindsay (00:25):
It's like, you're not breathing out of your nose.
Okay,
Jordan (00:28):
cool.
I won't do that.
Yeah.
Hello.
Hi.
How's it going?
Good.
Good.
Welcome back.
Welcome, welcome back.
Welcome back to our littlepodcast.
Yeah.
We have kids.
So fun.
That's what you're listening toright now.
Our launch is going pretty well.
It is.
You know what?
(00:48):
I haven't checked that, uh,checked to see specifically how
well it's going in like a week.
Lots of
Lindsay (00:54):
great feedback from family and friends.
Yeah.
Thank you everybody.
It's really fun to see.
See where like people arelistening in from in the
country, all the world all overthe place.
Yeah.
And I can't believe it.
It's really cool'causeeveryone's getting like a little
start of it.
There's no ads or like breaks oranything in our show, so it's
kind of like a nice little sweetspot.
(01:15):
Yeah.
We'll get, I mean hope maybe.
We'll hopefully we'll get theads, but also enjoy your time
without the ads because it'sgonna be nice if you're
listening in like two years.
Jordan (01:23):
Maybe you just listens to an ad Yeah, we sure don't
have any right now, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Actually.
Thank you.
Thank you all for the support.
It means a lot to us.
I've been getting some coolfeedback.
Lots of people have been reallyinto the adrenal cocktail.
That was like episode one
Lindsay (01:40):
or two.
Yeah.
The only feedback I'm gettingfrom that one is how are you
traveling with that?
So people aren't understandinghow I'm traveling like, or
excuse me when I travel, likehow I'm doing it when I travel,
just bringing emergency.
I bring enough emergency packetsfor the day.
Yeah.
I toss them in my nice bigZiploc bag and I do travel with
(02:02):
my Celtic sea salt.
I noticed that last time I wastalking about it and I was
saying Celtic.
Oh really?
Celtic or Celtic.
I'm fairly certain it's Celtic.
I'm pretty sure it's Celtic too.
I do travel with that in mycarry on and I just leave it up
like on the top of everythingbecause TSA does have to check
it.
They've checked it every singletime I've traveled.
(02:23):
Hmm.
So.
And then you just
Jordan (02:26):
buy coconut water when you're out.
Yeah.
Cause that would suck.
Yeah.
Lindsay (02:29):
Yep.
Jordan (02:30):
Yeah.
Cool.
Um, yeah.
And I, I was actually listeningto, I made myself one the other
morning, just like randomlybecause I had the stuff for it
and I was feeling wiped out.
Oh boy.
So wiped out.
I've been feeling.
Lindsay (02:43):
So how many weeks are you,
Jordan (02:44):
I am, I'll be 31 weeks tomorrow, girl.
Yep.
You're in it.
I, yeah, it's like home stretch,but I'm sure all of you who've
been pregnant out there arelike, yeah, that last 10 weeks
is like, it doesn't feel likethe home stretch feels like your
whole pregnancy is justhappening in like slow motion.
(03:05):
That last bit.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that's where I'm atright now.
So I.
I hadn't really made one athome.
I'm a little bit of a slacker,but I made one.
And then I turned on thispodcast.
I was listening to, it was LizMoody podcast, um, with an
endocrinologist as a guest,
Lindsay (03:22):
endocrinologist.
Oh my gosh.
I kind of, I was thinking aboutyou the whole time.
I think I feel like that couldhave been my calling.
Like if I was, if I didn'tbecome a dietitian.
And I really wanted to, but Ialso didn't, I was also stubborn
when I was younger.
I didn't want to take organicchemistry.
How stupid is that?
I didn't want to take that classeither.
Jordan (03:41):
I heard
Lindsay (03:42):
so many horror stories.
I wanted to be so like a CRNA,then a dietitian.
And I was like, I don't want totake any of this organic
chemistry.
And I was just 19 years old andrefused.
And like, I was like, I lookback at that.
I'm like, why didn't you justlike, Just try.
You could have tried.
But anyways, endocrinologistwould have been cool.
Jordan (04:03):
Yeah.
It was a great episode.
Check it out everyone.
Like I said, Liz Moody podcast,but I turned it on like
literally, I was like halfwaythrough the episode and then
randomly they started talkingabout the adrenal cocktail and I
was like, Oh my God, this is soweird.
I literally just made that.
That's crazy.
so strange coincidence.
But then as I was listening.
(04:24):
The endocrinologist had a littletip.
She actually said that she's allfor the adrenal cocktail, which
is awesome.
Lindsay said all the rightthings.
Uh, yeah.
So listen to that episode if youhaven't already to get all the
info.
But one other tip that theendocrinologist had was to add
cream of tartar to it, which Iwas like, that was interesting
Lindsay (04:42):
too.
Jordan (04:42):
Yeah.
So if you are trying the adrenalcocktail along with us, throw in
some cream of tartar.
She didn't say like a pinch.
I guess.
I don't know.
She, she didn't, I would imaginelike a pinch.
Not too much.
Yeah.
But I guess it adds potassium.
So another really good mineralfor your body.
Really cool.
Yeah.
So another little update I hadfor anyone interested that I
died, this, this cracked me upso much.
(05:04):
I don't know if you guysremember listening, if you did
to the toddler bed episode whereI was giving tips for keeping
your kid in their bed while Iwas struggling.
To keep my kid in her bed.
And like literally the day afterwe recorded that episode, I was
like, I'll try the baby monitortrick that I mentioned, which is
literally like you watch yourkid on the monitor, you know, a
(05:26):
monitor you can like speak into.
And if they get up, you justsay, stay in bed or like say no,
say no really firmly was I thinklike the official tip.
But what I said was I saw herlike starting to sip and I was
like, Lay down, please.
And then she just laid back downand it literally worked.
(05:46):
Yeah.
Lindsay (05:47):
You were like, yeah, cause in the episode you're
like, that's kind of weird.
I'm not going to like pull thattrick.
Yeah, like there's
Jordan (05:52):
no way she's going to actually just like listen to me
on the bench.
And here you did it.
What made you think to do it?
You were just like.
The fact that I had given thatas advice.
I don't know.
Maybe you had stuff to do
Lindsay (06:01):
and you were
Jordan (06:01):
like.
Yeah, I was like sitting, doingwork on my computer and didn't
want to get up and, you Funny.
And yeah, wrestle her.
It worked that day.
It's so funny.
The next day, I think I did itthree times and she's never
gotten back out of bed.
Lindsay (06:17):
I can't believe that.
It's insane.
So stupid.
I'm going to put that now in mypocket.
Yeah, you need it.
I don't know.
Just to try.
Yeah.
We're going to try on the pottytraining thing for fall.
She's wanting to sit on thepotty and all the things.
So she, so we're going to dothat first and just see.
So we also don't want a lot ofchanges all at once because I
(06:40):
also mentioned in that episodethat I was battling insomnia.
It was one of the parts of theepisode we were just shooting
the shit and you were talkingabout what's going on with you.
And I'm like, I'm not sleepinggood.
So I have insomnia.
When I'm pregnant, Ding, ding.
Guess what?
Guess what?
(07:00):
So I, I am announcing that I'mpregnant here on the podcast.
I am well into my secondtrimester.
Jordan and I are just 15 weeksapart again, which is basically
the same gap we had the firsttime.
The first time our gap was thesame.
This time the gap is meant to bein the same, and it's just so
(07:22):
like.
Amazing and thrilling and justawesome.
So I hadn't, I haven't saw me ahardcore you guys, and I am not
joining the Unisom train.
Oh, are you not?
Jordan (07:36):
Because you said maybe even in that episode, I don't
remember if you said it in theepisode or not, but that you
were considering
Lindsay (07:41):
Unisom.
Yeah.
So I consider, so everyone'sthrown it my way.
Right.
Friends, friends that work inhealth care, family, doctor, I
think you may have as well.
I don't know what it is.
I mean, I didn't before youbrought it up, so I don't think
I did,
Jordan (07:58):
but I think I told
Lindsay (08:00):
you this.
Yeah.
You were like, try smoking weed.
And I was like, well, I haven'tlike done that, like went
pregnant.
So I'm right.
Obviously.
So just like you, just like you,I don't want to try anything new
when I'm pregnant.
I had a miscarriage last falland I'm like.
terrified to try anything likenew that I haven't done before
pregnancy or when I was trying.
(08:20):
It's scary even if you haven't.
Yeah.
So I'm just like, so anyways,I'm just like keeping things
like really like chill.
But the, but the reason I'm notjumping the unisom train is
because I have insomnia rightnow for a full blown reason.
I am pregnant.
Yeah.
That's a full blown reason, Ithink.
Yes, I don't have insomnianecessarily.
(08:42):
When I'm not pregnant, I am alight sleeper, but then I'm even
more of a light sleeper when Ihave children, because my mother
instincts are, you know, chimingin throughout the night, keeping
me up.
But, yeah, so I'm pregnant.
Yeah, congratulations! Yeah,thank you.
I mean, I knew, obviously.
Yes, you've known for a longtime.
(09:03):
But I've I've been on here andwe've been doing all these
episodes talking about, youknow, how Jordan's been
uncomfortable, like in the heatand like just sitting and like
doing all the things and I amright there with her.
Yeah.
I like, but it's been so hard tolike not say anything, tie my
tongue, um, on this situationbecause, um, yeah, it's just
(09:26):
like right there.
It's happening.
So, I'm feeling so much better.
I had a terrible firsttrimester, very like nauseous,
way more nauseous.
I don't know.
I think I'm more nauseous than Iwas with my daughter.
Um, but I'm in my firstborn.
Um, so I don't know.
We'll see.
But everything seems to be likesame insomnia, food aversions
food cravings were the exactsame that I had with my first.
Jordan (09:49):
Yeah.
So I don't remember what yourfood cravings, chicken Caesar
salad,
Lindsay (09:53):
remember?
Jordan (09:54):
I could not get
Lindsay (09:55):
enough of chicken Caesar salad.
I couldn't get enough of thetarget chicken Caesar wrap that
when I remember that's so funnyand like chicken in general.
So like, raising canes, chickenstrips, like, Oh my God, I
can't, I could not get enoughchicken.
I'm not, it's not something Inormally eat.
My white meat is fish and duckand is duck considered white
meat is duck, rabbit.
(10:18):
And I don't know about that PHEand grouse considered.
Wow.
Or, or white meat.
I have no clue.
I didn't, those things
Jordan (10:25):
vary infrequently.
Yeah.
I actually don't care for duck.
I don't either.
You don't.
I thought you did.
Okay.
Lindsay (10:32):
I like, I.
I liked it at the fine diningrestaurant that we used to work
at because they sous vide itright and they did it all right.
But at home, mmm, I leave that.
I do like duck poppers.
My husband makes duck popperswith like jalapenos and cream
cheese and bacon wraps.
That I like.
But like he does make, we havelike duck burger and we have
(10:54):
duck breast and stuff.
I don't care for it at home atall.
Yeah, interesting.
Um, but grouse is so yummy.
I just don't know if it'sconsidered white meat.
I haven't ever had, I don'tthink I've ever had grouse.
Oh, you'd love it.
Yeah.
Maybe if he can get some grousethis fall, we can get you some.
Cool.
Anyways, haha, I'm pregnant.
Hello, Lindsay's
Jordan (11:12):
pregnant too.
We're a couple of pregnantgirls.
So if we don't make a lot ofsense, or if we sound tired,
Yeah, or if our sentences run ona little too long, Sorry about
it.
Lindsay (11:23):
Yeah, it's just how it's gonna be right now.
I did come across a post lastnight on scrolling and I'm gonna
send it to you because it's kindof a post that's going around
about becoming a mom of two, youknow, a head.
It talks about you're going toget thrown in the deepest level
(11:45):
of postpartum again.
Like you did.
I was like, damn
Jordan (11:48):
nerds.
I know.
I feel that coming.
I feel that hard because I havebeen so exhausted.
Like, I was really tired with myfirst kid.
But I had the ability to liketake a nap anytime.
Yeah.
You know, and I had the abilityto like, just take my time
thinking about how I was goingto prepare.
Oh yeah.
(12:08):
Just, you know, like make myselffood, all those things that you
take for granted as a Child freeperson that are suddenly so much
harder to make the mental spacefor let alone the time space and
physical space for in life witha kid with a toddler.
Lindsay (12:24):
It's madness.
Jordan (12:26):
So this is a nice segue into what my topic is for today.
My main topic.
Um, My exhaustion is the segue.
I've been
Lindsay (12:35):
told, and I've been experiencing, and you obviously
have been experiencing, butbeing pregnant and raising a
toddler is by far way moreexhausting.
than anything in the world.
I literally just saw a postyesterday that like, it, that we
are pushing our endurance limitsclose to an Olympic athlete.
Jordan (12:55):
I honestly, dude, I feel that.
I, yeah.
At the end of the day, you'relike, Oh, especially if I've
worked that day, I worked threeshifts in a row this year.
It's like weekend ish.
And I, I was honestly like nottotally sure if I was gonna make
it.
Go back to work.
I'm like, oh my god, I justcouldn't, yeah, so, and the nice
thing about when I get tired isI turn into a real bitch.
(13:19):
Well, don't we all?
I ball my head off.
Yeah, I do that too.
But I just, first I get kind ofmean, which isn't great.
Well,
Lindsay (13:29):
here's the thing, it's like when we were talking about
short communication with yourspouse.
Huh.
There's no way you can likepractice not doing that, like,
or withholding from being thatshort communicator.
Yeah.
When you're in this.
It's so hard.
Yeah,
Jordan (13:44):
everything's so hard.
You just feel like you don'thave time for anything and
you're overstimulated to yourgills and yeah, all I want to do
is just like lay down in a darkcorner.
Space, but instead I'm likecooking lunch or you know,
something.
So anyway, I turn into, um, areal fun person to be around.
(14:05):
And as a result, of course, itmeans I've been arguing with my
partner more than I would liketo.
And so today I would like totalk about what happens when you
argue with your partner.
Yes.
And especially what happens whenyou argue with your partner in
front of your kid.
We try really hard to keep ourarguments short.
(14:25):
I mean, civil, first of all, ofcourse
Lindsay (14:28):
we try time for some, there's blowouts though, or like
blow ups.
Jordan (14:34):
Yeah.
Cause you're like, when,especially when you're pregnant,
your hormones are going crazy.
You're super tired.
You're just, like I said, you'rea wreck.
Lindsay (14:40):
You
Jordan (14:40):
almost have
Lindsay (14:41):
no tolerance for anything
Jordan (14:42):
out of your window of tolerance.
Yes.
Which we'll talk about.
Yes, exactly.
So, yeah, a couple of times thisweek, like this past month,
actually, me and my husband havebeen kind of, we've just been
arguing about really dumbthings.
Like it's nothing substantial.
It's nothing we shouldn't beable to work out like straight
away, but because we're both soexhausted and we have so much
(15:03):
going on and we have so littletime for each other and so much
coming up, it just seems tolike, Be so much harder to
regulate our nervous systems inthe moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we have done like an okayjob at not arguing in front of
our kid, but there were, therewas like one specific day when
we got into a pretty gnarlyargument.
In front of her and I, Ipersonally, like he was kind of
(15:25):
keeping his shit together, but Icould not keep my shit together
and I kind of just lost it.
Mm-Hmm.
And she ended up crying and Ilike the moment she started
crying.
I just like the, I felt like Igot smashed by a train.
Yeah.
I was like, oh my God.
Yeah.
I've never felt that feelingbefore.
I was like.
Made, like, oh, it was so yucky,I
Lindsay (15:47):
hated it
Jordan (15:47):
so much.
Lindsay (15:48):
Yeah, you're, it's, it's gonna happen, like I, that
part hasn't happened to me yet,but it's there.
My husband and I have not foughtmore in our lives since
postpartum, sorry, since themoment I brought her back home
from the hospital.
And um, Um, we go to couplestherapy and she like validates
(16:09):
and she's like, these are thetoughest years for a couple to
manage and get through like,okay.
So she's constantly reminding usto hear.
Yeah.
I mean, it is because she talkswith couples all day long she
has a spouse and a child and ayoung toddler as well.
And she's like, I'm, I'm therewith you.
(16:29):
I understand what you guys aregoing through.
Yeah.
I'm sorry that she cried.
Oh, that's, it was
Jordan (16:36):
so,
Lindsay (16:36):
it
Jordan (16:36):
was so awful, dude.
I can't like, yeah, I neverwant, I like looked at her and I
was like, I'm never going to dothat again.
And I probably will.
Cause I'm not perfect, but likein that moment I was like, okay,
this is something I need to lookinto.
I need to make sure that I haveall the information that I need
to give her the best experiencethat I can give her.
Because Things that I had heardbefore I like looked into it a
(16:57):
little bit are that it isactually important for your kid
to see you and your partnerarguing a conflict and
especially important to seethem, to see you resolve.
Yes.
Right.
So if you haven't heard that,that's like the basic one on one
stuff is like there will beconflict.
So do you and Andrew alreadyhave, like, before you went to
therapy, did you have, like, anestablished, like, argument
(17:21):
routine?
We, no,
Lindsay (17:23):
we were, well, okay, before we had a baby, kind of.
Sure.
Like, when we would cometogether at the end of the day,
or, or, and whatnot, because wewere both working jobs
separately from home andwhatever, then when we had her
and brought her home.
Um, there were needs that wereunmet on his end, needs that
were unmet on my end in themiddle of the day, all day
(17:44):
throughout the night.
So arguments were happeningwhenever so we're like, we're
having a hard time figuring outhow to transition into a family,
how to transition into a couple,like as parents, how to meet
each other's needs because nowthey're completely fricking
different than they ever were.
And, I am somebody that wasalways independent and didn't
really share my feelings a lotfrom my upbringing and now all
(18:06):
of a sudden I need to learn howto do that.
So we went to couples therapyand we went to a family
transitional therapist, couplestherapist, which was incredible.
And now they're structured in asense where She's down for a nap
time on the weekends, which Idon't necessarily like arguing
over the weekend because that'sour time as a family.
Or they're at the evening and Ihate arguing in the evenings
(18:29):
before bed.
Um, so unfortunately I just haveto like, have bed time.
Those are our times.
Yeah.
So now we just have certaintimes.
Yes.
Like we were at the parkyesterday in the morning.
We had an argument going on andI was, I had the dog on the
leash.
He was helping her up the slide.
I'm like, I'm going to take ourdog for a walk.
So I removed myself fromcontinuing the argument being
(18:53):
done in front of her.
And I gave myself time to think.
I'm sure he had time to think aswell, but I went away for a half
hour and walked her along theriver.
Jordan (19:00):
Yeah.
So you have you, would you sayyou've mostly been able to avoid
fighting in front of her or infront of her?
Yeah.
We're like, even
Lindsay (19:07):
before therapy.
No.
Okay.
Therapy has helped with that.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah.
Cool.
But, but, uh, but we also makeit a huge point to mend in front
of her.
Yeah.
And.
Jordan (19:19):
Yeah.
Cause that is the thing.
Like I said, that a lot ofpeople, a lot of people do focus
on is because arguments aresomewhat inevitable and
emotional reactions aredefinitely inevitable.
That the most important thingyou can do is come back and show
them how to mend.
Yes.
Yes.
So.
Yeah, I'll kind of get into thisand we'll, we'll touch base back
(19:40):
with the mending thing=in just aminute.
so I did some, you know, somelike pretty basic research about
this.
Obviously everyone's prettyfamiliar with the idea that
fighting in front of your kidsis going to cause issues and can
be detrimental so kids who justlike some basic little.
Fun facts here.
Yeah.
Not that fun.
Yeah.
Kids who are exposed to moreparental fighting, they're more
(20:01):
likely to suffer from depressionand anxiety, they have more
sleep issues, they can have moretrouble focusing, they tend to
perform less well in school.
Lindsay (20:10):
And that is all of me.
Yeah, because I didn't watch myparents mend.
Mm hmm.
They just fought the whole time.
Yeah, and I never saw them mendSo that was always I was always
questioning everything.
So everything you're listening.
Were you the
Jordan (20:23):
kind of kid who like would blame yourself?
Absolutely.
Oh really
Lindsay (20:26):
interesting cuz I'm like well if they're not mending
because of them too.
It's obviously like Me doingsomething.
Yeah.
Jordan (20:33):
I read that kids kind
Lindsay (20:34):
of have a tendency to do
Jordan (20:35):
that.
I didn't have that.
I didn't have that experience.
I definitely experienced myparents arguing a whole bunch
and I experienced, yeah,feelings of anxiousness and
sleep issues.
Yeah.
And like the year my parentsseparated, I definitely didn't
perform well.
And so I didn't pass fifth gradetechnically, like I did cause
I'd like, they let me go onbecause I was definitely
(20:56):
capable.
But
Lindsay (20:57):
yeah, everything you're listing is accurate, like
Jordan (21:00):
fully accurate.
And then of course they willstruggle most likely with their
own ability to manage conflictand handle emotional experiences
in any kinds of relationshipsthey have as they get older.
That's all stuff we kind of likehave an awareness of, right?
I'm not like bringing any newinformation to the table there,
but something that I did findreally interesting was that.
(21:21):
Kids as little as infants liketiny tiny infants experience a
rise in blood pressure when inthe presence of arguing adults
Which is wild and even baby'sbrains when they're sleeping
reacts to angry times Inpeople's voices Wow
Lindsay (21:37):
like they're woken up from it and not
Jordan (21:39):
necessarily even woken up But that their brains like
that there was a research doneat the University of Oregon.
I believe I'll link to theresearch in the show notes, but
basically, yeah, it was sayingthat suggesting that babies,
even when they're sleeping, evenwhen they're infants are still
negatively impacted potentiallyby arguing, which is kind of
wild.
It does make sense, but I, like,I remember when my kid was tiny
(22:00):
thinking like, you know, whenshe was an infant thinking to
myself, Oh, we had an argument.
This is the kind of thing we'regoing to need to watch out for
as she gets older andunderstands.
Right.
Cause you're like, she won'tremember it now, but, and
doesn't really know what's goingon.
Like I do get, like, I dobelieve that the energy and the
vibe that you're feeling yourkid picks up on for sure, but
(22:21):
it's hard to see it like inwriting.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So yeah, I thought that wasreally interesting and kind of
crazy.
Like there's really no good ageto argue in front of your kid.
Yeah.
So that's a little fun, a littlebit of fun to make you feel
really good about the argumentyou had last with your partner.
So whether or not it can beproductive is something that was
(22:43):
kind of the driving questionthat I had because I had heard
like it is good to have conflictwith your partner.
It helps your kid to managetheir expectations of
relationships in the real worldand to manage their own emotions
when they do come up and not tofeel like shame about them.
And to me that makes a lot ofsense.
As long as like we've said acouple of times now the mending
process happens in front of them
Lindsay (23:04):
Yeah, and you also show respect during the argument,
too.
Jordan (23:07):
That's definitely a big part of it So I was looking at a
little interview done with a mannamed John Gottman.
Oh, yeah Yeah, I mean mostpeople have done probably
marriage counseling have he's avery very prolific marriage
therapist and has done tons ofresearch.
I think he's at the universityof Washington, if I'm not
(23:29):
mistaken, but he's like theelite researcher in marriage,
uh, success and divorce.
And he says, and this isn'tgoing to bring anyone any
comfort.
He says you should justabsolutely never, ever argue in
front of your kid period.
Yeah.
So that was, that's probably whywe've,
Lindsay (23:50):
that's probably why I'm noticing.
So our therapist, she's Big on alot of his tools that's probably
why some of our arguments havechanged more Like during her
sleep time or during is
Jordan (24:01):
that that's something she's had to focus on is just
Lindsay (24:03):
like taking time.
Yeah.
Setting time aside for talkingabout all these issues that
become arguments.
Yeah.
So, and, and that's like,obviously something we need to
schedule into our calendar andwe do, and it's not something
you want.
And then all of a sudden, well,then all of a sudden we're
finding ourselves like needingto schedule them more often.
Like specific discussions don'tneed to happen once a month.
(24:23):
They need to happen maybe once aweek.
Dang.
Jordan (24:26):
Yeah.
But it does need to happen andit is important.
Yeah, so basically he says,Obviously, you're going to
argue, but it should alwayshappen outside of the acoustic
range of your kid so thatthey're protected from ever
hearing the argument.
Um, he does say that it could,it could be a good idea once
your kids are teenagers.
Lindsay (24:43):
What age do you like teach them how to argue?
So like when they're like,basically
Jordan (24:48):
when they're teenagers, they'll have like the frontal
lobe.
I'm assuming frontal lobecapacity, um, cause that's your
reasoning and stuff.
helps you regulate emotions andeverything, but that's like when
they're old enough that you can,he says you can like role play
certain arguments that you'vehad.
But like having already resolvedthem so that the big
(25:09):
Dysregulated nervous systemfeelings aren't coming up for
you when you're role playingthem got it Which I was like,
um, that's like something tothink about way down the line.
Yeah Whoa, that'd be so true.
It's so hard
Lindsay (25:20):
Especially right now when you and I are pregnant and
our emotions are flaring up Justa big ol river.
Just a
Jordan (25:27):
flowing river.
It's hard work.
It's crazy, dude.
It's so crazy.
I did also find on the GottmanInstitute website, and this was
an article not written by JohnGottman himself, but just
somebody on his Institute team,an article that seems to sort of
disagree with what he says, atleast a little bit.
Um, it suggests that it could bebeneficial to argue To argue in
(25:48):
front of your kids, but with abig, like, however, like, you
know, yeah, there's a bigcaveat.
Put
Lindsay (25:54):
up, make sure, like, imagine a spotlight in the room
on both of you because you'relike on stage for your child.
Yeah, totally.
And that's
Jordan (26:01):
kind of, you kind of like make that the driving
purpose.
So it gives guidelines aboutexactly how to do it and how not
to do it.
The big, how not to do it.
So we'll just get that out ofthe way.
They're fairly obvious, butworth mentioning.
Never use verbal aggression, sono name calling, no insulting
your partner, no threateningyour partner, and definitely
(26:23):
never talk about, like, leavingeach other in front of your kid,
because that can be terrifying.
Never use physical aggressionand that could be obviously
like, you know, hitting yourpartner, but can be something
like I, one time slamming a cup.
Totally.
Like there was one time when Iwas pregnant with my first kid,
she, luckily that's as around asshe was.
I even feel guilty arguing.
(26:45):
As a pregnant person, just,yeah, still feels uncomfy, but I
was, uh, very dysregulated thismorning and I was so, I don't
remember what about somethingstupid probably, but I like
smashed a plate on the floor andthat's like the most dramatic
thing I think I've ever done inmy life, but that would be
physical aggression too, I wouldargue, like throwing things or
hitting a wall or the table.
(27:06):
So, none of that.
never stonewall or use thesilent treatment in front of
your kids.
You might think that that, Ipersonally wouldn't have really
thought of that one as beingsomething that's super
detrimental to their well beingbecause it's kind of like
passive in a way.
Yeah, yeah.
But, uh, when you start to thinkabout it, it does make sense.
Then they pick up on that.
Like you're really not showingthem how to communicate or
(27:27):
Right, right.
connect with somebody who you'restruggling with.
Mm hmm.
So
Lindsay (27:31):
that's really important.
We call timeouts.
to help with the stonewalling.
Interesting.
Um, so we just call timeouts andthen whoever decides to to call
the timeout has to come back.
Oh cool.
And set the time.
Oh that's a good idea.
They set the time.
So like I'm not gonna stonewallbut I need 10 minutes or I need
30 minutes.
(27:52):
That's a really good idea.
So we set 30 minute timer butthat person that set the time.
Is the one who has to come back.
Yes.
I actually love
Jordan (27:58):
that.
I do.
That would help me and mypartner a lot.
Yeah.
I'm going to use that.
Did you, did you pick that up intherapy or?
Yeah, that's a good one.
Oh, I'm totally.
Yeah.
Okay.
So then we can move forward.
The house, keep yourself calm.
First focus on your breathing ifyou need to, and then make it a
point of really listening toyour partner.
Like almost make it yourpriority.
(28:20):
Listen before you like, listento her.
Yeah, totally.
Listen to everything.
to collaborate and problemsolve, they say this is really
cool to do in front of your kid,but you have to do so in a calm
and present way.
And that's like, doesn't evenfeel like an argument to me.
So I think that's kind of wherethis is coming from.
Like you can have these likequote unquote arguments with
your partner, but you arebasically you're not fighting in
(28:43):
any sense of the word.
You're really just Ofrecognizing that there's
something you don't agree aboutand, like, very calmly figuring
out a way to,, settle thedisagreement.
They say be careful with thewords you use.
Use I statements like I think, Ifeel, which can help you focus
on your experience rather thanpushing blame.
It's like less threatening andaggressive toward your partner.
(29:03):
And then ultimately, like,basically, the long and the
short of it is keep your coolphysiologically.
Like, keep your nervous systemregulated, and the moment that
you can't do that anymore, itbasically turns into a
conversation that just full stopshould not be had in front of
your kid.
Yes.
So that was pretty much mytakeaway.
It's like, it's basically okayto have an argument in front of
(29:24):
your kid, but like you can't getworked up emotionally in a
fighting context in front ofyour kid with your partner,
which, uh, something I'm justgoing to have to work on.
Dude, it's hard
Lindsay (29:39):
when you're not, when you're not taught the tools it's
a whole thing as an adult tofigure out.
You've never been pregnantbefore and all these emotions
have never happened to youbefore.
So this is all brand new.
Mm hmm.
I look back at our day we gotmarried and I'm like, we had no
idea what was coming.
We were like making these vows,you know, obvious for obviously
(30:01):
all the trouble all of the daysahead.
But we really didn't understand.
of like those, you know, vowsand all like what was really
going to be hard ahead.
Yeah.
And I look back at that, I'mlike, man, did we, we didn't
know.
Yeah.
I felt
Jordan (30:17):
that way when me and my partner were separated on
different, like in differentcountries.
That was when I felt like thatfelt harder to me than parenting
so far has.
Wow.
That's impressive.
Well, yeah.
I mean.
Those are hard days.
Yeah.
It's just, you can just, it'sone of those things.
You get tossed into the deep endand you just have to do what
(30:37):
you've got to do.
Lindsay (30:38):
Yeah.
Jordan (30:39):
But yeah, it's just important to come in toward each
other and recognize that you'rea team and you're working
together rather than turn awayfrom each other.
And that's another big thingthat I've heard John Gottman
say.
Lindsay (30:48):
Yeah.
He's big on like, it is not.
Me versus you.
Yeah, you have to rememberyou're a team.
Yeah, we practice a lot of termlike we, us, together, like
those words have to come up inour arguments.
Jordan (31:02):
Yeah, that's, I mean, it's smart.
A couple little things I foundinteresting, just to move us
along here, there was a NotreDame university psychologist
named Mark Cummings, who's donea ton of research on arguing in
front of kids.
And one of the things he foundthat was really interesting to
me.
is that before age 11, so thisgoes on with like the mending
thing.
Before age 11, kids seem to needto see parents physically making
(31:25):
up.
So it's actually not, yeah, it'snot enough to like just come to,
it's not enough to like have thevibe checked and bring kids in.
Bring yourselves back to likekind words to each other.
He says that the more importantthing for you to do is yeah.
Tons of hugs, lots of physicalaffection at kisses.
Like he says that that showsyour child until they're 11 or
(31:46):
older.
That's the thing that yourchild's going to see and
understand as you've now solvedthe issue, which I thought was
super interesting.
Cause me and my husband don'treally do it.
That's too much when we mend ourarguments in front of our kid.
Mm hmm.
So, yeah, that's something thatI found useful and I will
definitely take away.
And there was another pretty bigstudy that found it didn't
(32:08):
really matter whether theargument was even resolved.
So the mending thing kind oflike gets kicked away a little
bit here.
But the thing that mattered washow often and how intensely
parents argued.
That was the biggest factor innegative outcomes.
Yeah.
If
Lindsay (32:21):
they don't mend.
I would imagine the argumentsare going to escalate.
Like, yeah, I mean, I guess
Jordan (32:26):
that's true.
So there will be still acorrelation between mending the
argument generally.
Yeah.
But it didn't matter whetherthey like mended it the kid or
not necessarily.
It was just like, how much, howoften are you arguing and how
intense is the argument getting?
Which I feel a little betterabout.
Cause even though we're in likea little bit of a phase of
arguing a lot more than we'reused to, it's, it's not, it's
(32:49):
for the most part, it's not toointense and doesn't last very
long.
Yeah.
So that's kind of, you know, asmuch as I will get into for like
the research part of this, and Ihave said a few actionable
things and given a little bit ofadvice so far, but I have kind
of like four main actionablepoints to make that parents can
do to navigate big feelings thatcan lead to a conflict or having
(33:10):
fights or arguments in front ofyour kids.
And the first one, actually, Iwas hoping you could come in
with, because this is somethingLindsay taught me about that she
learned in therapy called thewindow of tolerance.
I believe we love this.
Lindsay (33:22):
Yeah, the window of tolerance is a concept that
describes like a range ofemotional intensities that a
person can have.
So Dan Siegel, he's a clinicaloffice or clinical professor of
psychiatry at the UCLA school ofmedicine.
He created this in 1999, whichseems insanely long time ago.
(33:47):
Oh my gosh.
I feel like that, that thisshould have been on billboards
on highways.
Like what's your window oftolerance today?
Okay.
but anyways, we just learnedabout this in 2024.
Still useful, everybody.
Yep, it is.
So what the window of toleranceis, is this is a concept.
If you can imagine what a windowlooks like, you have.
(34:07):
A window seal that goes acrossin the middle part.
Some, I mean, your window sealsin this basement and go
vertical, but imagine a box andit has like a top portion and a
bottom portion.
And, the window of tolerance isthe box itself outside of that
window on top, you have hyperarousal and hyper arousal is,
(34:29):
you're outside of your tolerancefor anything in general.
Jordan (34:33):
Imagine just your fuse is no longer short, it's gone,
anxious,
Lindsay (34:36):
angry.
You're out of control, you'reoverwhelmed.
Okay?
So.
You start reflecting on whatcould possibly make you out of
your window of tolerance themoment you wake up in the day.
Yours would obviously be, I'mvery pregnant.
I don't have a lot of patiencefor X, Y, Z today.
Yeah, I'm exhausted.
Honestly, like fatigue simplypushes me outside of that
window.
You are not sitting at thatmiddle, Part of the window,
(34:57):
you're already kind of above it.
Yeah.
And that's something veryimportant for your husband to,
or your, your partner to know.
And recognize.
And recognize.
Totally.
Okay.
And that helps with argumentsthat potentially could happen
throughout the day.
Right.
Jordan (35:11):
That's what I was gonna say.
Like, if, if I can recognizethat my husband's outside of his
kind of window of tolerance.
If I, if I look at him and I'mlike, okay.
He looks like he is reallypushing the edge of his window
of tolerance if not has likeescaped it This might not be the
best time to tell him that hedidn't make the bed this
morning.
Yes Something stupid right
Lindsay (35:33):
exactly.
So you're you're this is like away of Understanding what your
spouse is going through in themoment or and during the day To,
yeah, like you just said, tobring an argument up or not.
Jordan (35:43):
Or even just to like, I think something that is really
cool about this is that it putsyou in a position where you're
getting in the habit of lookingat things from their perspective
before asking yourself, do Iwant to say this or bring this
up right now?
Lindsay (35:58):
Exactly.
So when you see yourself outsideof the window, it won't take
much at all to throw you off.
And that's where I think a lotof new parents are like, Dealing
with.
Jordan (36:09):
Yeah, because their window of tolerance is, they're
just way outside of it.
Lindsay (36:13):
The mental load of everything in one day, in one 24
hour period of time, is throwingyou out of the window already.
Like, I'm sorry, but, especiallyif you don't have a lot of help.
Like, helping.
Yeah, even if you do have a lotof help.
Yeah.
It's hard.
Yeah.
So, hyperarousal is essentiallya way of reacting.
(36:34):
Hypoarousal is below the window.
So, this is a type of personthat might be just completely
zoned out.
There's so much going on.
They're overstimulated.
They're just shutting down.
Shutting down.
And so, do you find yourselffrozen or spacey?
Your body just wants to choosenothing to do anymore.
You're not choosing to just donothing, but you're just tapped
(36:54):
out.
Yeah.
Burned out.
You know, my husband comes homefrom work some days and
sometimes I want to know what'sbothering him.
And some days I'm just need tolet him not discuss it because
he feels better being home thanat work, but he's, he taps out,
he's not fully himself.
And I have to recognize, okay,he's out of his window of
tolerance.
He's in hypo arousal.
(37:15):
He's had a really long day.
I'm not going to talk to himabout something that could cause
an argument right now.
Or,
Jordan (37:22):
or like, and, and when you're looking at that, you're
not thinking to yourself, likeyou're, it's giving you the
tools to not be blamingyourself.
Yeah, because you've had aconversation.
You understand that one of thethings that pushes him outside
of his window is a tough day atwork.
He comes home from work.
It's been a tough day.
You can look at him and be like,Oh, this is the thing we talked
about.
Yep.
(37:42):
I have to fully trust.
Lindsay (37:44):
Yeah, I just learned, that I have to trust His bad day
has nothing to do with me.
Yeah.
And that's hard for me becauseas a child, yeah, I reflected a
lot on all of it having to dowith me.
So if he comes home from workand he's crabby, I really wanted
him to come home from work andas a, you know, like where
you're really excited to haveyou home.
(38:04):
But if he's not there yet, Ihave to just trust that I'm not
the problem.
So yeah, window of tolerance isawesome.
Yeah.
Thank you for sharing that.
That's
Jordan (38:12):
yeah.
So that's my first.
Yeah.
Um, you know, maybe not easy,but my first little bit of
actionable advice for if you'restruggling with this.
So my second little bit ofadvice is something I already
mentioned, which is learn tolisten first.
This is so much easier said thandone when you have an emotional
response to something and youdon't feel like your partner is
seeing or hearing you and youjust desperately need to be
(38:34):
validated.
Yes.
I totally get that.
Lindsay (38:37):
Yeah.
Jordan (38:38):
But something that's really good to practice is just
use your active listening.
So fully listen to what yourpartner has to say.
And then when you, when they'refinished saying that thing, let
them give you space to summarizewhat they've said and repeat it
back to them as you understandit.
So you could say something thatcould be like, you seemed to get
really frustrated when I blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
(38:59):
Or when I said this, that reallyhurt your feelings.
am I understanding youcorrectly?
And then, You know, you can kindof take it from there and it's
gonna take some practice becauseyou're never gonna be like
totally dead on And even if youare there those feelings are
still gonna exist.
Yeah But that's something thatreally helps to calm me down in
an argument and it's a tool thatI use with my kid Oh, yeah, I'm
(39:21):
like understand something thatyou seem you know, like it's so
easy for me to see my kid and belike Oh are you Are you feeling
frustrated right now?
And then she's like, yeah, andwe talk about it.
And I guess cause toddlers dothings that are like, seems so
incidental to us.
Like their frustrations justseem kind of like trivial, but
if we can take, like, if Ipersonally could take that same
approach with my partner and belike, Oh, you seem really
(39:45):
frustrated that I did thisthing.
That makes, and then like, justkind of bring it down to that
toddler level.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It'll help you to chill out.
Yeah.
It helps to calm me down a lot.
Um, and that brings me to thenext point.
My third little actionablething.
This is something called thesecond position.
This is a trick I learned manyyears ago when I was, working
with a mental resiliencetraining company.
(40:08):
This is, kind of a tactic youcan use in any relationship, but
I do find it the most useful,like, in your relationship with
your partner.
So basically the idea is, thereare three positions, first,
second, and third position,right?
In first position, It's kind ofjust like where we operate from.
You're like thinking of kind ofyourself and the way you are
(40:29):
responding to everything in yourenvironment.
Second position is doing thesame thing, but from another
person's perspective, it's justlike walking in someone else's
shoes, basically.
So when I see that my partner'sfrustrated, The best thing I can
do is, or sad, or if they'rehaving an emotion that I'm not
understanding, is to try and putmyself, really put myself, like
(40:49):
mentally,
Lindsay (40:50):
in their, in their
Jordan (40:52):
position and look at things from where they are
sitting.
If you're struggling to do this,there's a crazy little hack that
is, Mind bendingly effective.
So, what you do is, and this is,this will work if you're trying
to understand what kind ofemotion anyone is going through.
We have mirror neurons, we havereally, really innate
understanding of people's facialexpressions.
(41:15):
Oh yeah.
Even you wear
Lindsay (41:16):
expressions.
So if like you wear it on yoursleeve, you can tell what
they're like
Jordan (41:19):
going through, even if they don't.
So like sometimes, sometimes myhusband's like kind of just
like, you know, like reserved alittle bit.
But if I look at him and you tryto mimic the facial expression
that they're making, even justnot like blatantly.
'cause that'll probably justsend them be like, whatcha,
whatcha doing?
But if you just like look attheir face.
(41:39):
And imagine that you're makingthat face and wow, like micro
muscles in your own face to likejust kind of get an idea of what
their face is doing that willput you in their frame of mind
and like give you the emotion.
So you have that.
It's crazy.
Try it.
Okay.
I will super cool.
It's really wild.
Um, so you can try that ifyou're like really struggling to
(42:02):
just put yourself there becauseyour own mind is racing.
Just say, okay, I'm going tostep outside of myself.
And just mimic the face facialexpression and see what happens
just see what happens.
It's wild and then the thirdposition that I mostly was just
wanting to talk about the secondposition, but third positions
since I mentioned it is when youare able to Take yourself and
(42:23):
basically put yourself outsideOf the context looking in yeah
So if I like for example thelast time my husband and I
argued I went outside for asecond You Got a visual
Lindsay (42:34):
of like what it was like inside.
Yeah,
Jordan (42:36):
like I just kind of removed myself, pictured the
scene inside that I had justlived through, and tried to find
compassion for both of them.
Parties and see if I could seewhat happened without the, but
you kind of like detach from theemotion first.
So something that really helpsfor that is to like shake your
body really quickly and you'rejust like, wiggle everything
out.
(42:56):
It's like a little nervoussystem.
Lindsay (42:58):
Or
Jordan (42:58):
dance if you are a dancey person.
Yeah, you probably aren't.
Okay, so then the fourth thing,um, this one's a little bit
quicker, but the fourth thing issomething that I would like to
implement that I haven't yet.
Okay.
Which is to have a specificphrase that you can use, and
obviously you'd have to promiseeach other.
(43:19):
You'll respect the other personusing that and hold yourselves
accountable.
But like, have a phrase thattells the other person that
you're getting too worked up andthat this needs to be a
conversation that's had lateroutside of the presence of your
kids.
So something like, I'm feelinglike this could work me up.
Let's maybe return to thisconversation when we have more
space.
And if you have the practice,like the mental rehearsal of.
(43:40):
doing this before you'reactually in the negative
context, then when the negativecontext comes up, both you and
your partner are equipped tolike take that time and space
and then create space to makethe conversation happen later.
Of course.
That's yeah.
So you can just say, what timecan we talk about this?
Yep.
And then you make a plan to talkabout it.
And your kid's not around andyou have hopefully avoided Yeah,
(44:03):
that argument.
Yeah, so those are four littletips for everyone to try and use
if you are finding yourself in achapter of life where you're
struggling with arguments.
I love that.
Yeah.
This is a good episode so far.
Oh, if it's a big one.
It feels like a lot.
But anyway, yeah, so the keytakeaway, it's actually super
important.
Like the mending thing isimportant if you find yourself
(44:24):
arguing, but I think that weshould all probably prioritize
the time side.
Yep.
And not having to argue.
Not, I think arguing anddisagreeing in front of your kid
is fine.
I think if you're feeling likeyour nervous system is
dysregulating, it's time to,yeah, you don't want to get to a
disrespectful situation.
Nope.
So yeah, that's what I'm goingto be working on.
(44:47):
Let me know how it goes for youall.
Lindsay (44:49):
Probably going to be working on it forever.
I think so.
Jordan (44:52):
I definitely think so.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Anyway, take
Lindsay (44:56):
us away from this, Lindsay.
Yeah, this is like really goingto take us away.
Okay.
Cool.
We're trending now.
Okay.
so something I'm coming acrosson my social media, and I know
that algorithms are a thing,but, this is also really big in
the, natural holistic, realm oftaking care of your body.
(45:17):
I'm seeing it especially with,pregnancy how to take care of
yourself before and after I'meven seeing it now like, I don't
know if this has something to dowith the big tampon scandal that
happened like a month ago, but alot of us women are having
issues with pain in our pelvicregion and with our uterus and
our ovaries and just all kindsof like issues.
(45:37):
This is something that'strending really cool.
It's called, A castor oil pack.
Okay.
So you're probably like, what isthat?
I am like, I mean, I've
Jordan (45:45):
heard of it's really, really bizarre.
Lindsay (45:48):
So I use castor oil on my face.
Okay.
I've used it in my hair before.
It does need like an extracarrier oil to go with it.
Cause it's very thick and it'svery sticky and it just works
better when it has a carrieroil.
So right now I'm using it on myface with jojoba oil and
frankincense.
essential oil.
Nice.
It's really nice.
I really can tell thedifference.
My face is cleaned up quite abit.
(46:08):
Your face does look great.
Yeah, like I've always, I'vestruggled a lot with acne out
here in the dry desert climate.
But, um, since using castor oil,wowza, I'm like really seeing
the benefits.
Cool.
So a castor oil pack is alsoreally great.
This is something that is likecastor, warmed castor oil,
literally poured onto a thickorganic cotton wrap that can go
(46:32):
So you just take fabric and pour
Jordan (46:34):
castor oil on it and wrap has to be thick
Lindsay (46:36):
because you really want, you have to pour a lot of
castor oil on this sucker.
And so, so what you want is youhave castor oil, one, and it
just, it really truly needs tobe like organic, cold pressed,
unrefined castor oil.
Because you don't want extraingredients that are in this
castor oil entering yourbloodstream.
Sure.
Through your, through your skinvessels and such.
Right.
And then you need, a pack, whichis a wrap that goes around the
(47:00):
abdomen.
I think people use these aroundjoints too, that I've like, had
issues, if people have like kneejoint issues, they make little
packs that you can put aroundyour knee joints and such.
So this is
Jordan (47:09):
like a pain relief thing?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Lindsay (47:12):
And if you find yourself constipated or it can
increase air circulation, it canimprove like skin.
Yeah, I'll get to that point,but you have your castor oil,
you have your castor oil wrap,thick organic cotton.
Again, you don't want dyes inthis fabric or anything like
that because that will seep itthrough into your skin from the
(47:32):
oil.
You do not want that.
and what you do is, like, youbasically just, you have your
warm pack, you can warm it up,you can warm up the castor oil,
do not use a microwave to warmthese things up, there's
radiation, well fuck it allhappens.
So you can warm this up, like,over the stove, over the stove
top, in a pan, and you can thenpour it onto the pack.
Lay the pack over your abdomenThis is where I'm most commonly
(47:55):
seeing it is over the abdomen.
Okay, and so Go ahead.
Yeah, so it's used to solve likepassing stool if you're
constipated It's used to helpwith hemorrhoids Cysts,
fibroids, adhesions, scartissue, if you say you've had
like laparoscopic surgery or Csection.
Yes.
Yeah.
Endometriosis, it can help withit.
(48:17):
These, this does not cure thesethings.
FYI.
Sure.
It's just really helps.
Like a symptom relief.
Yeah.
Okay.
Symptom relief.
And it can really help alleviatethe condition as well.
It can help with PCOS, poor eggquality, bladder, digestive
issues, um, fatty liver.
A lot of people will have a bigenough pack to put over the
liver and that can help withlike a fatty liver, high
(48:40):
cholesterol, detox situation.
Interesting.
It's really cool.
It's really fascinating.
I, I have not personally tried acastor oil pack on my abdomen
before, but I'm very intriguedto and I'm going to, I, I'm I'm
curious on doing it when I'mconstipated after having my
child.
Jordan (48:57):
Yeah.
I was going to say, do, do youhave people do this during
pregnancy?
They do not.
Okay.
So you
Lindsay (49:02):
can do it.
Three to four times a week.
I got to sit with this thing onfor like 45 minutes to an hour.
So, this has to be Sorry aboutit toddler moms, this is not for
us.
Yeah, this is like somethingthat like, if you can find
yourself relaxing for an hourwithout interruption, give it a
try, um, there's a time to do itduring your, during your cycle.
(49:26):
if you're actively trying toconceive, Use it only during the
first part of your menstrualcycle.
Oh, okay.
Because you don't really, ifyou're gonna bleed during your
menstrual cycle, you don't wantto bleed more.
Sure.
This creates a lot of blood flowand a lot of detoxing.
that.
So this is something that'sadvised to use I would say end
of menstruation, maybe that lastday.
Yeah, sure.
(49:47):
Um, up until the time of yourovulation.
So.
Date like two weeks you could dothis three to four times a day
because ovulation is typicallyfour times a day Sorry, three to
four times a week No three tofour times a week You want to
test this to make sure that thisis chill for your body first?
(50:09):
Yeah, do a small patch of yourskin for 24 hours like moving
forward with a big wrap.
This can cause like diarrhea ifafter the first time you do it.
So maybe 45 minutes to an hourisn't ideal.
The first time you do it, workyour way up.
Other times you want to avoidusing it is if you're
(50:29):
breastfeeding or, if you'repregnant, big, big no, no.
Okay.
So if you're breastfeeding, youshould do a wrap even on your
abdomen.
The effects that this castor oilhas isn't known yet for how it
would affect a baby.
Jordan (50:41):
So I think I've seen castor oil, like the only time
that this sounded familiar whenyou started talking about it was
during.
Like, I swear I saw people doingcasserole packs, like,
immediately postpartum.
But is that not a thing, do youthink, because of the
breastfeeding thing?
Or is that maybe just somethingpeople do anyway?
Because there's always peoplewho are, like, comfortable with
(51:04):
that uncertainty.
Lindsay (51:04):
See, I personally kind of want to try it for
constipation.
Yeah.
And, but I guess something thatI would recommend if you, if
you're having a C section, youcan't use this on like an, a
fresh incision.
Sure.
You have to wait until probablyafter.
I've seen too many infectedincisions come back with people
trying to do like home remediesand you're like, you can not put
(51:28):
this kind of oil on like aincision or essential oils in
any incision.
Yeah oh, another thing too.
so obviously if you're usinglike this piece of fabric, you
can buy all this fabric Amazon.
You obviously aren't going tobe, you want to use that again,
right?
If you're going to do it likemulch, so don't throw it away
and don't buy it like pack afterpack after pack.
(51:49):
So you can bundle this thingafter you're done using it.
After your time of rest is over,you can bundle this up and put
it like in a Ziploc bag and putit in your fridge.
Oh, okay.
But don't put it on your bodycold again.
Like take it out of the fridgewhen next time you're ready to
use it, use warm castor oil fromthe stovetop.
(52:09):
You could use a heat pack tokeep like bundle it up, roll it
up in a heating pad or warmwater bottles.
Yeah.
That kind of thing.
So yeah.
Cool.
Wrap it up, save it for later.
Jordan (52:20):
That's good to know.
That's a time saving step.
Yeah, for sure.
So Castor
Lindsay (52:25):
Oil Packs are really interesting.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah, I think I would like todive into more about using it
postpartum.
Yeah, you'll have to let meknow.
Jordan (52:32):
Maybe that's something we can touch base on later once
we've actually figured that out.
We're not there yet, guys.
We're not there yet.
We got time.
Yeah, that's awesome.
We feel like we think we havetime.
Oh, geez, yeah.
sweet.
Well, I've got a recommendationfor this week.
Yeah.
For there.
Okay.
Okay.
This is like, not going to soundeven true, but I'm telling you
(52:55):
guys, this is legit.
Okay.
So there's a recipe forChocolate chip cookies that I'm
obsessed with, okay?
The one that you share with me.
Yeah.
So I'm not a freaking, like, so,okay, I've got nothing, I
totally understand people havedietary needs and restrictions,
like, I've been there, I get it,I'm like, with you, in spirit.
(53:19):
Yeah.
If not, in like, I still eatdairy and gluten, but this is a
gluten free and dairy freechocolate chip cookie recipe
that I still prefer to everyother chocolate chip because
it's the tahini.
It's so good.
It's so good.
Yeah.
So they're tahini chocolate chipcookies.
And the recipe is basicallylike, I'll just kind of list the
(53:40):
ingredients.
So if you can't have them, youcan just like be like,
nevermind.
But it's basically like almondflour, Lots of tahini.
I sometimes will throw even likea little bit of peanut butter,
like do part tahini, part peanutbutter, that slaps.
baking soda, an egg, chocolatechips.
And maple syrup.
Like, that's it.
And then you can throw somecollagen peptides in there if
you want to.
(54:00):
The first time you brought themover, I ate them all.
Dude, it's I was like, that's mysnack.
It's so good.
And it feels like semi guilforybecause you're like, there's not
refined sugar.
Yeah.
There's not like tons of, Idon't feel that bad about eating
butter, but there's not liketons of butter or shortening.
I did
Lindsay (54:18):
not feel like shit.
You feel so good after it's like
Jordan (54:21):
rejuvenating.
The tahini has like magicalproperties that make you feel
like a unicorn after you eatthem.
So go try this recipe.
So hang on, let me find it.
Lindsay (54:29):
It's so delish.
It's there.
Yeah.
I craved those like two nightsago, I think.
I craved them all the time.
I was like, man, I kind of wantchocolate chip cookies in the
oven.
I was like, I know a recipe thatI could really love to enjoy.
Oh, they're
Jordan (54:43):
so good.
Okay, so to find the recipe,because I don't want to give you
the whole recipe, but I'mtelling you, try these before
you like, disregard me.
Please just try them.
the recipe is at, it's a foodblog called Kale Junkie.
Like, K L K A L E junkie dotcom, or just, this is what I do
to find it every time, justgoogle life changing chocolate
(55:06):
chip tahini cookies and this iswhat will pop up.
just do yourself a favor, makethese cookies, do not skip on
the salt, like, if you don'thave Maldon salt at home, it
tells you to put a little Maldonsalt on top before you Oh, she's
got a lot of
Lindsay (55:20):
tahini recipes, that's cool.
Yeah, I'm not too surprised, Ihaven't
Jordan (55:23):
tried any other ones, but yeah, put, if you don't put
salt on top, you can use Maldonsalt on top, or you can just use
regular salt on top, mineralsalt on, whatever you have, or
you can throw some salt in therecipe, but you definitely need
a little bit of salt.
On top.
Oh yeah.
Somewhere.
Yes.
Just generally.
Yum.
If you don't put salt on top,then put salt in the dough.
They're so good.
They're crazy good.
(55:44):
Yeah.
That's my, I was like cravingthose the other day and I was
like, I should recommend thoseon the podcast because it's
seriously one of my favoriterecipes of all time.
Lindsay (55:51):
Cool.
I should check out her othertahini recipes because that,
that ingredient, that ingredientIt is so yum.
Jordan (55:58):
It is yum.
And you can get some relativelyinexpensive organic tahini from
Trader Joe's that works reallynicely.
Yes, that's where we
Lindsay (56:03):
get ours too.
I just went to her website anddid the search and just typed in
tahini and like that's where alot of other recipes and that
obvious cookie one came up.
Jordan (56:13):
Yeah.
Cool.
Go make them.
Tahini
Lindsay (56:16):
chocolate chip freezer fudge.
Okay.
I'm not a fudgy kind of girl butI would try tahini fudge to see
if I could.
I sure
Jordan (56:22):
would.
Lindsay (56:23):
Yum.
Wow.
Jordan (56:24):
Look, we'll let you know how the other recipes go.
Lindsay (56:28):
Oh, spicy tahini noodles.
Okay.
This is making me hungry.
Awesome.
Jordan (56:36):
I love it.
All right.
Well, that's all we've got foryou then today.
I hope you enjoyed listening to,uh, my calamities and my window
of tolerance and castor oilpacks.
Yeah.
Bye.
Just.
Switch it up.
Cookies.
Switch it up.
Oh, cool.
Well, we will come at you soon,um, maybe by the next time we,
(56:57):
I'm not sure if the next time werecord, I will have had a, or
we, nevermind, I was going tosay maybe by the next time we
release an episode, I will have
Lindsay (57:03):
had a kid.
Yeah.
We'll be recording.
Yeah.
I think a few more times, right?
Yeah.
And then we're not likereleasing them because we
obviously have work to do and wehave edits and we have busy
lives.
So we'll see where we get to.
Yeah.
Jordan (57:17):
But yeah.
Cheers.
I hope you all have a lovely,whatever time of day it is for
you.
Yeah.
Or time of year.
Exactly.
When this releases.
We'll see.
Oh, I should have said..
Like us.
Oh yeah.
If you want to follow us onsocial media.
Yeah.
Lindsay (57:32):
This has been great.
Um, please like.
Subscribe.
Please subscribe.
Please rate us.
Please leave a fun review.
If you want to.
It feels great.
We love it.
Like, we love it.
It just makes us feel likethere's more.
Friends out there thatunderstand.
Yeah We love friends going on.
Yeah,
Jordan (57:51):
everybody needs a good good friend.
Of
Lindsay (57:53):
course
Jordan (57:53):
Um, well, you can find us on Instagram and we have kids
podcast and yeah, we will checkyou guys soon Have a good one
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