Between the Bars: The Controversy of Elliott Smith's Alleged Suicide (Pt1)

In this  episode, Robin delves into the complex life and untimely death of Elliott Smith, the revered singer-songwriter known for his haunting melodies and introspective lyrics. Part 1 is an overview of his early life and rise to fame. Part 2 will explore the circumstances surrounding his tragic demise, raising questions about the official ruling of suicide. Robin will examine the possibility of foul play, a theory that many of his friends, family and fans still believe today. 
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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happyplaces. But every sunny space holds a
shadow. Behind every smile, oursharp teeth, and every happy place has
something sinister lurking just below the surface. Welcome to We Saw the Devil,
the podcast diving deep into the chillingrealms of true crime. Join your host

(00:26):
Robin as she unravels mysteries that haveleft investigators baffled and armchair sleuth's obsessed.
Be forewarned, Dear listener, WeSaw the Devil is not for the faint
of heart. Our unflinching exploration willtake you to the darkest corners of the
psyche and through the unimaginable depths ofhuman darkness to unearth stark secrets. To

(00:46):
the harsh light of day. Nothingwill be left untouched. Are you ready?
Are you sure? We Saw theDevil? Hello everyone that you are
listening to We Saw the Devil.This is Robyn and I am here with
an episode that I am so excitedabout i posted about it on Instagram.

(01:07):
But this is an episode that I'vequite literally wanted to do since I started
this podcast. This is a casethat I've been incredibly interested in for more
than a decade, and not alot of people talk about it, and
I'm pretty sure that the vast majorityof people aren't even familiar with this beautiful
human. So I'm excited to talkabout the life and death possible murder of

(01:33):
Elliott Smith. Before we get intothat, just really quick update, Iris,
and I know, I know theChad day Bell case trial rather is
underway, and guys, I honestlywas questioning whether or not I was going
to cover it because I know weall kind of got Lori valued out a
while ago. But I am elated, I am tickled. I am so

(01:57):
excited for this, and it's alreadyis insanely interesting, just with what's come
to the surface, like his conversationwith his daughter and John Pryor. It's
a mess in the best way possible. But that is actually we are recording
tomorrow and then I'm going to doa really quick flip around on that.
But yeah, we are going tocover it on a weekly basis, So

(02:20):
we're in Chad day Bell mo,guys. But on top of that,
other episodes will continue, like finallyfinally freaking finishing up Chris Chan and the
part two of the Elliott Smith episodehere Beyond that, if you're following the
show. The website is still currentlyin progress changing a couple things up there.
Don't forget for the time being.Make sure you are following on Instagram.

(02:43):
That's We Saw the Devil podcast.You can follow me Robin Underscore WSTD
if you want to see what I'minterested in my life, the food I
cook, my dogs, all thegood stuff there. But yeah, reach
out if you have any questions andalways like talking to listeners. Damn,
that was the shortest intro ever,but let's just go ahead and get into

(03:04):
the episode. Remembering the first timeyou heard a song can evoke a flood
of emotions and memories. Sometimes it'stied to a significant moment in your life
or a certain experience. Maybe itwas playing on the radio during a road
trip with a loved one, maybea friend introduced it to you. The
context in which you first encounter asong can shape your perception of it and

(03:27):
create a lasting impression. Our brainsare wired to associate music with memories,
so hearing a song it can transportyou back to that initial moment, and
sometimes just someone's voice alone can dothat or make you feel a variety of
emotions, and for me, Oneof the biggest moments of my life was

(03:49):
the discovery of Elliot Smith. Iwas sixteen years old and I was watching
the movie The Royal Tenenbaums and there'sa scene where the movie takes a really
dark turn when Luke Willson attempts suicide. There's no dialogue, just a song
playing, and I absolutely fell inlove with this particular song. I'd never
heard a voice like that before,so I immediately purchased the soundtrack on CV

(04:15):
and went down the rabbit hole ofthe indominal figure Elliott Smith, and I
fell head over heels in love listeningto sad music. And this is something
a lot of people. This issomething a lot of people know about me
in particular, But I love sadthings. I find beauty in it.
I find Catharsis in it. That'swhy my two favorite movies would be Dancer

(04:38):
in the Dark with York and Martyrs. It makes me feel introspective, which
feels good. Even the most oppressingsongs can make you feel some level of
Catharsis, even if only for thelength of that single track. And what
a fucking gift Elliott Smith was inthat regard. His music has gotten me

(04:59):
and count less others through a lotof life's toughest patches. His voice is
thick with emotion and his delivery ispaper thin, almost whispering at times.
His writing is beautiful, often bleak, and rich in gorgeous metaphors about life,
depression, addiction, and relationships.His guitar playing was intricate, and

(05:20):
he created his own idiosyncratic style offingerpicking and strumming. He recorded a lot
of his own work himself and layeredhis vocals to create just these ethereal soundscapes
that are hauntingly beautiful. He wasa tortured poet in every sense of the
word, able to beautifully put intowords on paper beautiful descriptions of both the

(05:44):
mundane and the complex. He foundsuccess, even being nominated for an Oscar
for his song Miss Misery for themovie Goodwill Hunting. But despite that critical
acclaim, in his rapidly growing anddevoted fan base, Elliott Smith was constantly
engaged in battle with his own personaldemons throughout his entire life, including addiction

(06:06):
to drugs and alcohol, depression,ADHD, psychiatric holds, overdoses, and
suicidal ideation, with multiple attempts recordedtragically. He passed away on October twenty
first, two thousand and three,at the age of thirty four. There
is no conclusive evidence to suggest thatElliott Smith was murdered. Emphasis on conclusive.

(06:31):
His death was officially ruled a suicideby multiple stab wounds to the chest.
However, the circumstances surrounding his deathare suspect at best, and it's
caused a great deal of speculation andcontroversy amongst his fans, myself included.
It's a popular opinion that the officialruling was wrong and that he was in

(06:53):
fact murdered. I'm not a conspiracytheorist. I don't buy into any of
them. This isn't a Kurt Cobainand Courtney Love type of situation, which,
by the way, even Courtney Loveherself commented on Elliott Smith's death saying,
quote, that's the best suicide I'veever heard of. Kind of ironic,
I know, but like, thereare a lot of red flags,

(07:16):
particularly with Jennifer Cheeba, Elliott's girlfriendand the only other person in that apartment
on October twenty first, two thousandand three. Even in death, Elliot's
work continues to inspire others, particularlymusicians, especially since he cited as the
number one influence behind artists like PhoebeBridgers, who claimed Smith as her all

(07:36):
time favorite artist. Same with ConnorOburst of Bright Eyes, Ben Gibbert of
Death Cab for Cutie, and bothof Phoebe Bridger's bandmates, Lucy Daukas and
Julian Baker. They both also citeElliott Smith as their favorite artist. And
I'm just gonna go through a fewof my favorite lines and lyrics here.
I'm going to play a couple clipsof my favorites because it really paints the

(07:59):
picture of the type of person ElliottSmith is. This isn't an artist that
would write music to sell that wouldbe popular commercially and then went home.
This was a man that literally puthis emotional state into his lyrics. It
was complete transparency in a lot ofways. That's not to say that everything

(08:20):
that he wrote was autobiographical. Infact, he hated that. He hated
the fact that people would read intothe lyrics and think that every single thing
he was saying was something about himself. He always talked about how everything he
wrote, for the most part,was abstract. So I'm just going to
go through a couple of my favoritelines and lyrics and play a couple clips
so you guys can kind of getthe picture here. So one of my

(08:43):
favorites is plainclothes Man, from whenhe fronted a band called Heat miser for
whom he wrote all the songs.Smith utilizes the act of taking a photograph
as a metaphor for how relationships cango from joyously happy to miserable and isolating
in a millisecond, and it's whyhe never allows himself to get his hopes
up. My favorite verse is someonetakes a photograph a picture while their sweetheart

(09:05):
laughs a perfect moment in a flashof light, counting back from three to
one. That's exactly what you've done, and I'm so unsurprised. I remember
why I dream in black and white. That's sadly what you've done. In

(09:50):
the song Twilight, he says,haven't laughed this hard in a long time.
I better stop now before I'm crying, go off to sleep in the
sunshine. I don't want to seethe day when it's dying. She's a
sight to see. She's good tome, but I'm already somebody's baby.
She's a pretty thing and she knowseverything, but I'm already somebody's baby.

(10:11):
And in that song, he's talkingto someone who's interested in him and saying
that he's already beholden to his addictions. That yes, this human girl is
beautiful and she's a sight to see. She's gorgeous, she's good to me,
she's sweet. But I'm already beholdento my addictions. They are my
partner. I have loved this hardentime, but good to stop now fast,

(10:43):
don't crying golf to sleep in thesunshine along say the day when it's
dying. Jesus sun desiysa desity.She's a good tom, good Toma.

(11:07):
I'm aady somebody's baby. She's agood thing. She knows everything everything.
I'm a somebody's baby. And anotherone of my favorites, Say Yes.

(11:31):
This was written after the breakup fromhis girlfriend Joanna Boulm of the band's leader
Kenny. When she broke up withhim, he wanted her back and he
wrote the song Say Yes in fiveminutes and it's one of my absolute favorite
tracks. My favorite verse is crookedSpin can't come to rest. I'm damaged
bad at best. She'll decide whatshe wants. I'll probably be the last

(11:54):
to know. No one says ituntil it shows. See how it is
they want you or they don't sayYes. I'm in Love with the world
through the eyes of a girl who'sstill around the morning after crickets been can't
come to rest damaged bed. Atthis she will decide, she walks,

(12:22):
I'll probably be the last to know. No one says until it shows,
see how it is. Say watchsay in Love with the World through the

(12:45):
us of the girl still around themorning. Alf and last, but not
least, the all time classic fora lot of people, and to me,
just one of the most lyrically masterfulsongs in the history of the world.
Between the Bars what a fucking masterpiece. Smith was a notorious alcoholic and

(13:09):
heroin addict, and Between the Barsis quite literally him personifying a bottle of
Johnny Walker red. The bottle istalking to him, telling him to drink,
coaxing and persuading him, telling himthat it will help him forget the
other versions of himself and the guiltand shame that he drinks to hide from.
One of the lines is I'll kissyou again Between the bars, which

(13:31):
is the bottle of alcohol telling himthat he will love him through the prison
of his alcoholism. I mean,it's just absolute brilliance. The rest of
the song is equally as good.Drink up, baby, stay up all
night with the things you could do. You won't, but you might the
potential you'll be that you'll never seethe promises you'll only make. Drink up

(13:54):
with me now and forget all aboutthe pressure of days. Do what I
say, say, and I'll makeyou okay and drive them away. The
image is stuck in your head.People you've been before that you don't want
around anymore, that push and shoveand won't bend to your will. I'll
keep them still. Drink a baby, look at the stars. I'll kiss

(14:15):
you again between the bars where I'mseeing you there with your hands in the
air, waiting to finally be caught. Drink up one more time, and
I'll make you mine, keep youapart deep in my heart, separate from
the rest where I like you thebest, and keep the things you forgot.
People you've been before that you don'twant around anymore, that push and

(14:35):
shove and won't bend to your will, I'll keep them still. Drink for
good at the stars. I'll kissbetween two into fun co maybe key all

(15:11):
of this is say you get mydrift. It's easy to hear how he
became synonymous with the sensitive, torturedmale singer, songwriter, poet persona of
the early nineties, referred to bycritics as the quote unhappiest man in the
land, an artist who don't somuch listen to as commiserate with, and
given the nickname mister Misery by theGuardian newspaper. Not only did Elliott Smith

(15:37):
have very, very very public addictionissues, but he also tragically died under
incredibly suspicious circumstances at the age ofthirty four. And there's suffice it to
say a lot of math that ain'tmath in when it comes to his death.
So in the next two episodes,we are going to break down what
happened the night of October twenty first, two thousand and three, in the

(16:00):
apartment Elliott shared with his girlfriend andfellow musician Jennifer Cheeba. With Elliott Smith,
all roads lead back to his childhood. Born Stephen Paul Smith on August
sixth, nineteen sixty nine, inOmaha, Nebraska, to elementary school teacher
Bunny K. Berryman and medical studentGary Smith. His parents divorced when he
was just six months old. Hisfather was drafted that same year into the

(16:23):
US Air Force and sent to thePhilippines as a physician. Bunny scrambled to
make a living for her and hernewborn son and ended up relocating to the
suburbs of South Dallas, Texas.She met an affluent insurance salesman named Charlie
Welch, and they married in nineteenseventy two, when Elliott was three.
Elliot would later tell friends that hereceived his first beating from Charlie on the

(16:47):
day of his mother's wedding, againhe was just three years old. Charlie
and Bunny would go on to havetwo other children, a boy named Darren
and a girl named Ashley. Charliealso had a daughter through his previous marriage.
Charlie was equally stern and religious,and Elliott seemingly became his scapegoat for
pretty much everything. He would receiveregular beatings in a volcano of verbal abuse

(17:11):
whenever Charlie deemed it necessary. Elliotwould go on to tell friends that he
also believed that Charlie had sexually abusedhim when he was younger. Although Charlie
has vehemently denied this when asked bymedia. Elliott began taking piano lessons when
he was nine. His biological fatherkept in touch with him throughout his childhood
and bought him a small acoustic guitarwhen he was ten years old, but

(17:33):
it was his piano skills that wereat the forefront at the time, and
also at age ten, he wrotea song called Fantasy on the Piano that
won him a prize at a localart festival. By the time Elliott was
fourteen, his dad had remarried andmoved to Portland, Oregon. Elliott,
disgusted, weary, and tired ofthe constant abuse at Charlie's hands, decided
to move to Portland to live withhis father, stepmother, and two half

(17:56):
sisters. Elliott began to write andrecord songs at home in his bedroom on
a four track recorder. He wentto Lincoln High School in Portland and graduated
in nineteen eighty seven as a NationalMerit finalist. Now, up until this
time he had gone by the nameStephen. He officially changed his name to
Elliott, later saying in interviews thatSteve sounded too much like a jock's name,

(18:18):
and Stephen sounded too bookish. Alsoin nineteen eighty seven, he formed
his first band, Stranger than Fiction, a high school band, and they
ended up recording six albums worth ofmusic and songs, all written by Smith
himself. The following year, hefollowed his high school girlfriend to Hampshire College

(18:38):
in Amherst, Massachusetts. He workedat a local bakery, where he apparently
became pretty proficient at bridemaking, thatmusic was still his primary obsession. While
at Hampshire, he metmil Gust,another guitarist, and they ended up forming
the band Heat Miser. Elliott graduatedin nineteen ninety one with a double major
in both philosophy and political science,and after graduating, Smith and Gust both

(19:03):
made the move back to Portland organto focus on Heat Miser. Heat Miser
exploded on the local scene, butremained ultimately unknown nationally, that is until
they released a song called Plain clothMan. The song came from Heat Miser's
third album, and it was reallyElliot rebelling against the band structure and getting
ready to go solo, and it'sfreaking brilliant. Elliot harbored so much hatred

(19:29):
for his stepfather, which is prevalent, and that sentiment is prevalent in so
many of his songs and lyrics,but he also had both contempt and love
for his mother, and so thelyrics A plainclothes man go dreaming on the
silver strand waking up to plain clothesman, You little bastard, little boy
in blue, someone's gonna get toyou and fuck up everything you do.

(19:52):
He's so unhappy inside. He's seriouswith everyone, and he thinks he'll win
you with his angry kiss acting.He has no needs, wanting you to
watch him bleed made for each other. That you pay me any mind just
goes to show my continual decline.They say that I'll recover my love of
her once in a while, butI don't know. I don't think.

(20:12):
So. There's something that I'll tellyou now, now that no one else
is around, the sort of lessonthat I learned from you, Not quite
the way you planned, but Iknow you'll understand. Translated, he says
that his dreams are a silver strandthe silver lining the only time he got
to escape from his hellish life asa child, because then he would wake

(20:33):
up to the plainclothed man Charlie andhis ramblings and abuse. He refers to
Charlie as the boy in blue,like a police officer coming in and destroying
his relationship with his mom, andto his mom, he shows his resentment.
I'll recover my love of her oncein a while, but I don't
know. I don't think so.And my favorite verse in the song is

(20:56):
where he's speaking directly to his motherwith that there's something that I'll tell you
now, now that no one elseis around, the sort of lesson that
I learned from you, not quitethe way you planned, but I know
you'll understand. I mean, fucklike it's literally a therapy session and diary
entry in a song. The songreceived a music video and was circulated on
MTV. But again this was Smithcoming out of Heat Miser in a in

(21:19):
a band setting and onto his own. He released his first solo album,
Roman Candle, in nineteen ninety four, and the self titled Elliot Smith in
nineteen ninety five. His third album, Either Or was recorded in nineteen ninety
six and Heat Miser disbanded. Elliottmoved to Brooklyn, New York from Portland
for basically a new community and newmusic community. He was officially a solo

(21:41):
artist and not long after either orwas released to critical acclaim. Film director
in Portland resident Gus van Zandt approachedElliott to write a song for his upcoming
movie, Goodwill Hunting, Yes,the Robin Williams and Matt Damon movie.
Elliott wrote miss Misery, which formany is his most well known song to

(22:02):
date. I'll play a forty secondclip of that now, because it's probably
going to jog a whole lot ofmemories. I'll say, through the day
with Johnny Walker, so poys raydown the drain to put bad thoughts in

(22:27):
my head to tick it's told,do you mean yess? Goodwill Hunting is

(22:51):
obviously a classic film. It wasnominated for a handful of awards, including
Best Picture. Smith himself was nominatedfor Best Song, up seriously up against
Celine Dion My Heart Will Go Onfrom Titanic. The Oscars invited him to
play it, and he had nointention of going, and he actually declined
the invite to the Oscars, butthen they told him, Okay, well,

(23:11):
if you're not going to do it, we're just going to get someone
else to do it. And hesaid hell na and capitulated and went.
On March fifth, nineteen ninety eight, Smith made his network television debut on
the Late Night with Conan O'Brien show, performing Miss Misery solo on his acoustic
guitar. Just a few days later, wearing a white suit, he played

(23:32):
a stripped down acoustic version with theHouse Orchestra at the Oscars, and he
blew everyone away. And it wasat that time that Elliott Smith officially became
a national figure. Smith was knownas being painfully shy, almost to the
point of debilitation. He later commentedon his Oscars experience by saying, quote,

(23:55):
That's exactly why it was surreal.I enjoy performing almost as much as
I enjoy making up songs in thefirst place. But the Oscars was a
very strange show where the set wasonly one song, cut down to less
than two minutes, and the audiencewas a lot of people who didn't come
to hear me play. I wouldn'twant to live in that world, but
it was fun to walk around onthe moon for a day. While living

(24:15):
in New York City, Elliott livedwith several friends, one of those being
Dorian Gary. Regarding Elliott's time inNew York, Dorian said, quote,
he always talked about suicide. Hemade me promise that I wouldn't be mad
at him. He just talked aboutit as if it were going to happen.
After his skyrocketing fame because of GoodwillHunting, he was signed to a
major label, DreamWorks Records, andone would think that he would have been

(24:38):
ecstatic about this, but quite theopposite happened. He went into a major
depressive episode, telling many of hisfriends that he wanted to commit suicide.
He even made several attempts, includingonce in North Carolina where he got incredibly
drunk and high and then quite literallyran off of a cliff, up landing

(25:00):
on top of a tree, whichpartially impaled him, but it did save
his life. This became big news, and later when an interviewer asked him
about it, he responded, yeah, I jumped off a cliff, but
it didn't work. In nineteen ninetynine, he relocated from Brooklyn to Los
Angeles in preparation for the next album, Elliott embarked on a nationwide tour,

(25:22):
hitting up several cities and performing onboth Letterman and Conan. His addictions were
coming to the forefront and impacting hisperformances. He was severely strung out during
those performances forgetting words, appearing agitated, dirty, unkempt. He would forget
chords to his songs and stumble aroundor stop playing guitar. Fans who played

(25:45):
guitar in the audience would often callout the chords to help him through it.
He'd get off stage and then wouldlater be seen hugging his girlfriend,
sometimes crying. If you want tosee just how bad it was, look
up the song Everything's Okay at SunsetJunction. It's absolutely heartbreaking. You can
find it on YouTube. It's afour minute clip of him playing the song

(26:08):
and he starts it off and hegets all the words wrong, and he
slowly starts to get frustrated. Hestops, apologizes said sorry, I'm gonna
finish the song, and then hestruggles through it and then he says sorry,
I can't. And it's devastating tosee like it makes me tiary when
I see it. One comment onit says, quote, I saw this
performance along with a couple hundred shockedfans at the Sunset Street Fair. I

(26:33):
don't remember him finishing a single song. Maybe he did. A girl next
to me cried in disbelief. Theaudience instead of booing him off, tried
hard to be encouraging, hoping he'dget it together. Most had walked away
shaking their heads long before he gaveup and left the stage. I had
seen him in ninety nine at SaintAndrew's Hall in Detroit, just before I
moved to la and the difference intwo years could not be believed. And

(26:56):
that's the thing about Elliott Smith isthat he when he played live, he
was so shy and so vulnerable,and you could tell he was basically giving
just every part of himself, sohe rarely got heckled. There was one
infamous incident where someone told him togrow a backbone, and everybody looked at

(27:18):
that man like they wanted to killhim, But everyone was just trying to
be so supportive because they just acknowledgedwhat he was. The man was basically
a giant, self fulfilling prophecy,severely abused as a child, physically,
mentally, potentially sexually, never feltgood enough, completely lacked any sense of

(27:38):
self worth, was constantly told thathe was a valueless piece of shit,
devastating depression, spiraling addictions into heroin, crack, alcohol, and prescription pills.
His romantic relationships were toxic and constant, going from girl to girl,
to relationship to relationship, sometimes multipleat wi, and he abstractly documented all

(28:02):
of these emotions and feelings beautifully intohis songs. Unfortunately, it didn't matter.
When the addictions impacted him to thepoint of being largely unable to perform
live, he would replay his stepfather'swords over and over again in his head,
telling him that he was worthless andpushing him further down the hole.
During this time, he was datinga fellow musician by the name of Jennifer

(28:25):
Chieba. She played bass in apopular local LA band called The Warlocks,
and fun fact, she also datedRivers Cuomo, the lead singer of Weezer,
for the previous three years before shegot with Elliott. One of their
biggest albums is almost entirely inspired byher. Now. There are various accounts
of their first meeting, but inthe years following Elliott's death, multiple people

(28:47):
have come out and said that Jenniferhad requested an introduction to Elliott and was
incredibly flirtatious and overly physical with himeven at their first introduction. Their first
meeting, others have come out andsaid that she would ask them and tried
to score Heroin for Elliott, andmuch like Elliott's relationships in the past,
this one was equally as volatile bymany. She was known as an opportunist

(29:10):
by others, a user, andwhen Jennifer and Elliott moved in together into
an La apartment, neighbors would goon and talk about the screaming coming out
of their apartment all the time,primarily hers, and a handful of people
have come out since Elliott's death statingthat Jennifer Cheeba had actually chased him around
with a knife before. Again unknownas whether that's true. I'm not stating

(29:33):
it as fact, but people havecome out and said that regardless. People
have come out in name and anonymouslyand commented on how well that shit she
was seth Oregon, the label ownerthat was putting out Chiba's out last album,
which Elliott Smith helped with, statedquote Smith wasn't the easiest PERSONA to
work with because of his problems.The worst thing to ever happen to Happy

(29:56):
Ending was Elliott getting involved. Theproduction of the single became the focus of
all of Smith and Chiefa's relationship problems. People began to speak of their relationship
as furiously difficult, similar to theinfamous and ultimately disastrous liaison between Sid Vicious
and Nancy Spongeen and if you knowhow that ended, Sid Vicious stabbed his

(30:18):
girlfriend Nancy Spongeent to death in theirhotel room. One person in the LA
music scene, again anonymously, hasstated quote, Jen was definitely crazy.
She dated our keyboard player before Elliott. She had issues, some fascination with
knives. I have my doubts aboutsuicide. The thing is that he's sang
about suicide, so everyone assumes.Last time I saw him at the health

(30:41):
food store, he was doing great. And Elliott truly was doing great.
He went to rehab in August oftwo thousand and two, came out in
late two thousand and two, andhe was pretty much completely clean. He
was working at a foundation for abusedchildren with Jennifer, and he seemed to
be getting back on the right track. A couple months later, on November

(31:02):
twenty fifth, Smith was involved ina brawl with a Los Angeles police department
at a Beck and Flaming Lips concert. He was apparently defending a man who
he thought the police were harassing.The police assumed that Elliott was a homeless
man, and they apparently beat himpretty badly and arrested both him and his
girlfriend. They spent the night injail, and when he came out,

(31:23):
Smith's hand and back were injured inthe incident, rendering him unable to play,
so he had to cancel a numberof shows. But he healed.
He gave him alcohol, red meat, refined sugar. He started shopping at
a local health food store. Hehad gotten off a lot of the prescription
medications that he had become addicted to. He was actively exercising and recording his

(31:45):
final album and my all time personalfavorite from a basement on a hill.
So how is it exactly that inless than a year later he would go
on to die from two stab woundsto the chest after a fight with Jennifer
Cheeba, with no substances in hissystem other than the prescribed levels of antidepressant
and ADHD medicines, again with onlyJennifer Chiba being present in the apartment at

(32:09):
the time of his death. Guys, I'm not gonna spoil it here,
but when I tell you some mathain't mathin I mean it. Jennifer Chiba's
actions are beyond appalling and suspect shepulled a Lori Valo like what she did,
like what Lorii Valo did with JosephRyan after his death, and how
they went and cleaned it out.You know, Elliott died and she cleaned

(32:30):
out the apartment and she was there, and we're going to go through it
in the next episode. But somethingis definitely suspect in this entire scenario.
And I would just like to goon the record that I am not saying
explicitly that Jennifer Cheeba murdered Elliott Smith. What I am saying is that there
are a lot of red flags,things that don't make sense, and very

(32:52):
very very suspect behavior. And it'swhy, more than twenty years later,
a lot of Elliott Smith fans andpublic as a whole who know what happened,
believe that something sinister happened in theapartment that day and that Elliott Smith
didn't take a knife from the kitchenand stab himself through him shirt twice.

(33:13):
But we're going to get into thatin the next episode. I'm going to
cover the medical examiner's report, theautopsy, Jennifer's story and actions after his
death. I just wanted to quicklyset the scene. Other than that,
you guys again, don't forget tomake sure you're following. We saw the
Devil podcast on Instagram. We sawThe Devil on Facebook and Twitter, and
then me personally Robin Underscore WSTD onInstagram as well to keep up with me

(33:37):
personally. But I'm really excited.There's a lot going on right now.
There is part two the Elliott Smithis coming in the next day or two.
Iris and I are going to berecording a Chad day Bell update episode.
The Chris chan series still needs toend. I know they've been dragging
my feet on that one Brian Cobergercase as well, so much stuff coming
out of that one. There's alot going on right now, So excited

(33:58):
to dive in, excited to coverit, and I will see you guys
in the next couple of days untilnext Crime