Hidden Monsters: Rebecca Park, the Peternel Megachurch Scandal & Kristina Joksimovic

Three families that looked perfect from the outside. Three monsters hiding in plain sight.


The Rebecca Park Case  A 22 year old pregnant woman reconnects with her biological mother after 18 years of separation against her adoptive mother's warnings. Three weeks after disappearing, Rebecca is found dead in Michigan's Manistee National Forest. Her full term baby was cut from her body while she was still alive. Robin looks at the family dysfunction, the criminal histories of the men surrounding Rebecca, and the system failures that allowed predators to remain free.



The Peternel Megachurch Scandal  An Indiana megachurch pastor co hosts a podcast called "Jesus, Sex & Politics" with the Lieutenant Governor, preaching sexual purity and traditional values. Then his son is arrested with over 200 files of child sexual abuse material including AI generated images so disturbing investigators called it the worst they'd seen.



Kristina Joksimovic A former Miss Switzerland finalist posts photos of her perfect family on Instagram. Four weeks later, her husband strangles her to death, dismembers her body with a jigsaw, removes her womb, and purées parts of her in a blender while watching YouTube. 

Resources: National Domestic Violence Hotline: [phone] Text "START" to 88788 | thehotline.org

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and armchair sleuth's obsessed. Be forewarned, Dear listener, We Saw
the Devil is not for the faint of heart. Our
unflinching exploration will take you to the darkest corners of

(00:41):
the psyche, and through the unimaginable depths of human darkness,
to unearthed stark secrets, to the harsh light of day.
Nothing will be left untouched. Are you ready?

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Are you sure?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
We Saw the Devil?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Instagram is a lie. And I don't mean that in
the shallow everyone's faking their best life way, though that's
obviously true. I mean it in a more literal, more
dangerous way. In February twenty twenty four, a former Miss
Switzerland finalist posted photos from a romantic getaway with her
husband Lake Lucerne Sunset beautiful couple two adorable daughters with

(01:23):
red hair. The caption was something about gratitude and family time.
Four weeks later, her husband strangled her to death, dismembered
her body with a jigsaw, removed her womb, and liquefied
parts of her in the blender while watching YouTube videos.
In Michigan, a young pregnant woman reconnected with her biological

(01:44):
mother after eighteen years of separation. Her adoptive mom, the
woman who'd raised her, had spent nearly two decades hiding
her kids from this woman, knowing she was dangerous. But
Rebecca was an adult, she made her own choices. She
wanted a relationship with her birth mother. In November, that
birth mother lured her to a remote area, stabbed her repeatedly,

(02:07):
and cut her full term baby out of her body
while she was still alive, then disposed of the infant
in a lunch cooler and a random dumpster. And in Indiana,
a megachurch pastor and his lieutenant governor co host spend
their days on a podcast called Jesus, Sex and Politics.
They lecture everyone about sexual purity and traditional values. The

(02:29):
pastor's son was just arrested with over two hundred files
of child sexual abuse material or see Sam on his devices,
including AI generated images of pregnant toddlers being raped. Also
in those devices more than fifty sex tapes of his parents. Hey, guys,
it's Robin and I am here with another episode of

(02:50):
We Saw the Devil and not gonna lie. It's kind
of hard to recover from a cold opening that bleak.
What am I supposed to say? How's everyone's weak going
so far? After that? I have no idea, But like
the end Tru stated, guys, this is a very heavy episode.
I think the three cases that we will be covering today,
So that is your pre episode warning. Beyond that, guys,
we made it, We made it. We made it to

(03:13):
the end of the week. How is everyone? Is everyone
hanging in? Almost every single person I know is absolutely exhausted.
I have been barely human and I cannot wait for
the holidays. I don't know about you, but I will
be limping, quite literally, limping across the finish line this year.
And also, this episode is sponsored by the letter w
W for wedding Cake. No what I mean vern Before

(03:35):
we get into today's episode, quick housekeeping. If you're not
following the show on Instagram, yet please do that now, like, no, seriously,
right now? Go click follow. It's We Saw the Double
podcast all one word. You can also follow me directly
at Robin Underscore WSTD and I post updates on cases
that we've covered, breaking news, funny memes, whether it's true

(03:56):
crime or politics, behind the scenes stuff, and occasionally pictures
of my dogs. So I mean that alone, right, Like
that's a freebee, that alone is worth it. Twitter, we
saw the Devil a Facebook, we saw the Devil And
if I haven't already, I have no idea. I don't
remember we saw the deevil dot com all right, So
enough of that, let's get into it. Let's start in Michigan,

(04:20):
Wexford County. It's rural quiet, the kind of place where
everyone knows everyone, and when something goes wrong, the community mobilizes.
November third, twenty twenty five, Rebecca Park, twenty two years old,
thirty eight weeks pregnant. Park disappeared after her biological mother
picked her up for what was supposed to be a

(04:41):
quick errand ice cream and tide pods. Mundane right, Like
the kind of thing that you would do with your
mom without a second thought and probably have a handful
of times throughout your life. Except Rebecca's mom wasn't really
her mom, at least not in any way that truly mattered.
And here's where it gets complicated. You need to understand
the family dynamics, because that's kind of central to everything

(05:04):
that ends up happening in this story. Rebecca wasn't raised
by her biological mother, Courtney Bartholomew. When Rebecca was about
a year old, Child Protective Services removed her and her
siblings from Courtney's care. And CPS doesn't just walk in
and take kids. There has to be documented evidence that
these children are in immediate danger. And if you know anything,

(05:25):
or if you follow true crime or read in general,
you know that it is incredibly hard for children to
be taken away like it actually really truly is. Whatever
was happening in that house was bad enough that the
state terminated parental rights. Again, the state terminated parental rights,
Rebecca and her siblings were placed with a foster mom

(05:46):
named Stephanie Park. Stephanie didn't just foster them, She adopted
all three kids, raised them, loved them, gave them stability,
and according to Stephanie, she spent eighteen years actively hiding
her children from Courtney eighteen years of vigilance because and
I'm quoting her directly here, she knew something like this

(06:08):
was a huge possibility and that this woman was dangerous.
Think about that. For eighteen years, this woman maintained constant
awareness that her children's biological mother posed a mortal threat.
That's a mother protecting her kids from something that she
innately knew on a gut level was coming or potentially

(06:28):
could happen. And then as she grew older, when Rebecca
became an adult, she reconnected with Courtney. We don't know
exactly why. Maybe she wanted answers about her biological family.
Maybe she craved that connection. Maybe she thought she could
handle it. You know that whatever had been dangerous when
she was a baby wasn't really relevant anymore. And Stephanie

(06:48):
couldn't stop her. Rebecca was grown, she made her choices,
and Stephanie could only watch and hope for the best.
November third of this year, Courtney picks up Rebecca says
they're going for ice cream. Paudry Detergent promises to bring
her back. Rebecca's phone travels to the Bartholomews House in
Boone Township and then stops transmitting that evening. Her fiance,

(07:10):
Richard Fowler, tries to reach her. Nothing no texts, no calls,
no response. This is unusual. Rebecca was the kind of
person who's stayed in constant contact, always checking in, always
letting people know where she was. Fowler calls Courtney and
Courtney tells him Rebecca got into a black sedan with
tinted windows around midnight and left. She doesn't know who

(07:31):
is driving, and she doesn't know where Rebecca went. The
next morning, Rebecca's sister Kimberly reports her missing, and for
three weeks, Wexford County searches, volunteer search parties, search dogs,
FBI involvement, hundreds of tips, pouring in, community members spending
hours combing through the Manistee National Forest, over a million

(07:53):
acres of dense woods where a body could stay hidden indefinitely.
November eighteenth comes and goes Rebecca's do date, the day
she was supposed to meet her baby. Boy Friends hold vigils,
people pray, and everyone's asking the same question, where is
she and where is her baby? Behind the scenes, investigators

(08:14):
are analyzing phone records and tracking cell tower pings, and
they keep coming back to the bartholomewse because Courtney and
her husband Bradley, keep lying multiple conflicting stories. First Rebecca
left in a mysterious black sedan, then maybe it was Kimberly,
then maybe it was a local man, then maybe it
was Fowler. They're throwing out suspects like they're improvising absolutely

(08:38):
anything to redirect attention. But cell phone data doesn't lie,
and the data kept placing them in the same area
where Rebecca's phone stopped transmitting. November twenty fifth, twenty one
days after Rebecca disappeared, a woman riding through the Manissee
National Forest sees something a body partially covered with leaves,
about two and a half miles from the bartholmuse home.

(09:01):
It is Rebecca. The investigators can see immediately that she's
been stabbed multiple times, and she's no longer pregnant. The
baby has been removed. Court documents use the word gutted
to describe her body. Not severe trauma, not a clinical euphemism.
Gutted with an hour's arrest, start happening, and this is

(09:23):
where the dysfunction becomes almost baroque in the complexity of
it all. Richard Fowler, Rebecca's fiance gets arrested on drug charges,
two counts of delivering meth. His bond is set at
one million dollars. Then Kimberly, Rebecca's sister, also gets arrested
tampering with evidence, lying to police, filing false reports. Her

(09:46):
bond is set at seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
And here's where I need to explain something that sounds
like really truly awful fiction but is documented fact. Richard
Fwler didn't just date Rebecca. Before Rebecca, he dated Kimberly,
and then before Kimberly, he dated their biological mother, Courtney.

(10:08):
He dated a mother and her two daughters sequentially. And
according to statements Kimberly gave to investigators, she was having
an affair with Faller even while he was engaged to
her pregnant sister. So yeah, Rebecca's fiancee was sleeping with
her sister while she was preparing to give birth to
his child. I mean, the family tree here is a

(10:30):
crime scene in itself, but then somehow it gets even
more fucked up. Bradley Bartholomew, Courtney's husband, Rebecca's stepfather, has
a rap sheet twelve miles long. December twenty eleven. Convicted
of third degree criminal sexual conduct involving a thirteen to
fifteen year old two to seven years. Same month, convicted
of larceny one to five years. He serves two years,

(10:53):
gets paroled in twenty thirteen. June twenty fourteen, while on parole,
convicted of failing to register as a sexophone. Back to
prison November twenty sixteen, four months after release. Arrested for
possessing child pornography. One to six years parole twenty eighteen.
Parole violation twenty nineteen. Back to prison release December twenty twenty.

(11:14):
Parole ends December twenty twenty two. December twenty twenty three,
charged again with failure to register as a sex offender.
Judge releases him on his own recognizance and just lets
him walk out. Sentenced to one hundred and eighty days
in jail. The man has been convicted multiple times of
sex crimes against children. He's possessed child pornography. He cycled

(11:37):
in and out of prison for over a decade, and
the system kept releasing him. And Richard Fowler, Rebecca's fiance
you know, father of her unborn son. Two thousand and
three criminal sexual conduct victim age thirteen to fifteen, two
thousand and five, criminal sexual conduct and incapacitated victim twenty

(11:57):
fifteen another conviction, victim age three teen to fifteen. That's
his second conviction for raping a child, by the way,
and then also twenty fifteen accosting children for immoral purposes.
So let's speak very very clear about what we are
looking at here. Rebecca Park, twenty two years old, trying
to build a life for herself and her kids, was

(12:20):
surrounded by predators quite literally everywhere. Her biological mother married
a serial child rapist, her fiance is a serial child rapist.
Every primary male figure in her adult life has a
documented history on praying on children. In my time doing
this podcast, I've come across similar, I don't know, you know,

(12:41):
vulnerable young woman ending up in that specific kind of
constellation of predators, and when it's close family like that,
in that dynamic, it's really hard for them to get away.
Rebecca had mental health challenges. Her adoptive mother acknowledged this.
She I mean, she'd grown up in foster care. I
think it speaks to something that we don't talk about

(13:01):
nearly enough. Predators have radar for vulnerability they can identify
people who've been damaged by trauma, by the system, by dysfunction.
They don't just stumble into these situations. They seek these
type of vulnerable people out. Rebecca had mental health challenges.
Her adoptive mother even acknowledges this. She'd grown up in

(13:23):
foster care, she had a biological mother who lost custody.
She was looking for connection, for belonging, maybe even for
answers about where she came from, and it was just
a big circle of predators waiting. Stephanie Park tried. She
raised Rebecca from infancy. She gave her stability, love, safety,
She warned her about Courtney, but Rebecca was an adult

(13:45):
and she made her own choices, and those choices unfortunately
got her killed. And to be perfectly honest with you,
I would have probably done the same thing. I haven't
discussed it on the podcast in a very long time.
I may make random comments, but I'm adopted. I was
adopted at almost eight weeks old, So my adoptive parents
were always my parents, you know what I mean. Like
I didn't know a difference. They were just a little older,

(14:06):
that's it. Like they were always my parents. I always
felt like they were my parents, and I always knew
that I was adopted. When I got older, I had
always wondered who my biological family was. And then I
got older in my twenties and I was like, Okay,
well I should probably find out health issues things like that,
you know. Other than that, it would be you know,
cool to see where I came from. So I got
on twenty three and me I got help from a

(14:26):
genetic genealogist, and I did, in fact locate my biological
mother and my biological father. So I understand what that
curiosity is like. Now, I didn't have any sort of
abuse history or anything like that, so I can't speak
to that, but I understand what it's like to have
biological family, and I probably would have done the exact

(14:46):
same thing, even if people warned me that my biofamily
wasn't the best people. So I absolutely empathized with Rebecca
in terms of why she did seek out her biological family.
December second, the eighty four District Court in Cadillac, Michigan,
Courtney and Bradley Bartholomew are arraigned on multiple felony charges.

(15:06):
The courtroom is packed people who'd spent week searching for Rebecca.
Community members. Family cars in the parking lot have messages
written on them, Justice for Rebecca and baby park. One
community member right before proceedings begins and says aloud, we're
all trauma bonded by it anyways, which is a remarkably
astute observation about what collective grief does to a community.

(15:31):
Prosecutor Juwanna Carey lays out what happened, and again, guys,
this is graphic. According to prosecutors, this wasn't a crime
of passion. This was in fact premeditated. Courtney and Bradley
Bartholomew created a plan, conducted research, and then lured Rebecca
to their home under false pretenses. Once they had her there,

(15:52):
they forced her into a white Ford F one fifty,
drove her to the Manistee National Forest onto remote trails
where no one could see here, and then they stabbed
her multiple times. When the judge reads the specific charge
assault of a pregnant woman with the intent to cause
miscarriage or stillbirth, the crowd gasps like audible gasps, followed

(16:13):
by crying, because that charge tells you what happened. Next.
Prosecutor Carrie's statement was they forced her to lie on
the ground while they cut her baby out of her,
ultimately causing the death and the death of the baby.
While Rebecca was still alive, while she was conscious, bleeding
from stab wounds, they forced her down and performed an
improvised sea section. Prosecutor Carrie called it evil personified. Both

(16:39):
defendants faced multiple counts carrying life sentences first agree murder, felony, murder, torture, conspiracy,
assault on the pregnant individual. Bradley's also designated an habitual
offender fourth offense, which I mean tracks given his decade
of cycling through the prison system. The judge denies bond.
They're ordered not to communicate with each other, and then

(17:01):
the question everyone needs answered is where's the baby? In
the days after the arraignment, more details emerge from court documents,
and here's where it gets legally messy because Courtney and
Bradley are telling completely different stories. Both of them are
trying to obviously minimize their own involvement. Bradley's version is
that Courtney did everything. She stabbed Rebecca, forced her down,

(17:22):
and cut the baby out because she was jealous that
Rebecca was pregnant. Courtney's version is that Bradley killed Rebecca
as revenge against Richard Fowler. Apparently Fowler had once reported
Bradley to authorities, leading to one of his prison stents.
She says that Bradley stabbed Rebecca in the truck, then
held a knife to Courtney's throat and forced her to
cut the baby out used the scalpel. Rebecca was still

(17:45):
alive during this time. Afterward, Bradley slit Rebecca's throat. Suspects lie,
especially when they're facing multiple life sentences, but here's what
they both agree on. Rebecca was stabbed, Rebecca was forced
to the ground, the baby was cut out less, she
was still alive, and both of them were present for
criminal liability purposes. It doesn't matter who held the knife.

(18:07):
They were both there. They're both participating, and under felony
murder doctrine, they're both equally guilty. And the baby, according
to Courtney's statement, she tried giving the infant CPR that
the baby was dead, and then Bradley took the baby's body,
placed it in a lunch cooler, and then disposed of
it in a random trash can. He put a full

(18:27):
term baby boy in a lunch cooler and threw it
in the trash. That child, Rebecca's son, you know, baby
brother to her other two little boys, has not been found.
If he truly did end up in a dumpster over
a month ago, the chances of recovery of the remains
are zero. Trash collection has already happened multiple times, and
if he was in a dumpster, he's been compacted and
buried in a landfill, so there will be no remains

(18:49):
to bury. But now let's talk about Kimberly, because her
story adds a whole other layer to this. Kimberly wasn't
present during the murder, but the day after Rebecca disappeared,
Courtney threatened her told her if she said anything to
police that she would have her charged. Kimberly was initially
charged with tampering with evidence, lying to police, filing false reports,

(19:11):
and her bond was set at seven hundred and fifty
thousand dollars, but on December fourth, her bond was reduced
to just five thousand dollars and she was released on
house arrest with a GPS monitor. The bond reduction suggests
that prosecutors believe she was a frightened witness and not
an actual active participant. According to the Bartholemes's own statements,
neither Kimberly nor Richard Fowler were involved with the actual murder.

(19:35):
Faller was at home when Courtney picked Rebecca up. He
was the one frantically calling when she didn't come home.
But the affair is relevant to understanding possible motive. This
really fucked up dysfunctional web. A mother and two sisters
all involved with the same man with affairs overlapping creates
a toxic environ I mean that breeds a toxic environment

(19:59):
of jealousy, betrayal, and rage. Was Courtney jealous about the
pregnancy and about Fowler, was bradly motivated by revenge against Fowler.
I mean the motive is still contested between defendants because
everyone in their own little bubble had motive, and the
web of these relationships is in fact part of what
led to Rebecca's death. Rebecca left behind two little boys,

(20:21):
ages two and three, too young to even understand or
grasp what happened, but old enough to sense that something
is terribly wrong. Stephanie Park, the adoptive mother who's spent
eighteen years protecting Rebecca from Courtney, has taken them in.
She's also caring for Kimberly's one year old daughter, and
that's three small children who have lost their mother and
aunt to this violence. Stephanie is doing it again, this

(20:44):
time taking in Rebecca's children to protect them the way
that she tried to protect their mother. I mean, can
you imagine that level of heartbreak. You raise a child,
you protect her from danger for eighteen years, you watch
her reconnect with that danger as an adult, against your advice,
and then you're fears come true, and then you take
in her orphaned children, knowing you'll some day have to

(21:04):
explain everything that happened. The community has rallied. There's been
go fundmes for the kids, spaghetti dinner fundraisers, candlelight vigils.
These are small gestures against massive horror that they matter.
They show that even when humans are capable of the
absolute worst evil, that we are also capable of compassion

(21:25):
and solidarity. The legal proceedings here are currently ongoing and
discovery is being prepared. That's the process, for those of
you unaware, where both sides exchange evidence in a case
this complex, with multiple defendants and thousands of pieces of evidence,
that takes time, and given the statements both defendants gave police,

(21:45):
the physical evidence, the autopsy results. This case is going
to trial, and given Michigan's mandatory sentencing for first degree
meditated murder, if convicted, Courtney and Bradley Bartholomew will just
spend the rest of their lives in prison. FYI, Michigan
abolished the death penalty in eighteen forty six and life
without parole is the maximum punishment. So not in Michigan.

(22:08):
All right, So let's pivot to Indiana because we need
to talk about the Peternell family and what might be
the most hypocritical megachurch scandal that I have ever covered.
I think this is my first megachurch scandal, y'all, finger snaps.
I feel like my atheism just got a plus one.
So there's a megachurch in Indiana called Life Church, Assemblies
of God Affiliate, multiple campuses, you know, a legit megachurch.

(22:31):
The lead pastor is Nathan Peterno, and Nathan isn't just
preaching on Sundays. He also co hosts a podcast called Jesus,
Sex and Politics with Indiana Lieutenant Governor Micah Beck. With Yes,
the Lieutenant governor of Indiana, an elected state official, is
also a pastor at one of Life Church's campuses, and

(22:52):
he co hosts a podcast about how everyone else should
conduct their sex lives. Let that one marinate, and you
might be wondering, well, Robin, what do that talk about
on this podcast? While they pulled out the greatest hits
sexual purity, abstinence before marriage, the dangers of porn, how
homosexuality is evil in a sin, and how modern culture

(23:13):
is corrupting America with godless liberal values. You know, standard
Maga Evangelical playbook. October twenty third, twenty twenty five. Nathan
Peternell's twenty four year old son, Jonathan Wesley Peternell, is
arrested by the Hamilton County Metro Internet Crimes Against Children
Task Force seven felony counts related to child sexual abuse material,

(23:34):
one count of child exploitation, three counts of possession and
not just any material. According to court documents, what they
found was described by investigators as some of the worst
they have ever seen. These are professionals who work on
child exploitation cases for a living. They've seen every conceivable
horror of this. And when they say it's the worst
they've ever seen, pay attention to that. And here's how

(23:58):
this starts. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
receives a cyber tip from snapchat five files of suspected
Sea Sam and seesam is child sexual abuse material involving
pre pubescent children linked to an account registered under Jonathan
Peternell's name. September tenth, detectives execute a search warrant at

(24:19):
the Peternell residence in Pendleton. Nathan and Jonathan answer the door.
Jonathan has read his Miranda rights and when he's told
he's under investigation for child exploitation, he immediately requests an attorney.
I mean, smart move legally terrible sign for everything else.
Detectives sees laptops, iPads, tablets, cell phones, and storage devices.

(24:40):
And here's what the forensic analysis revealed. More than two
hundred files of child sexual abuse material sadomasochistic child abuse,
children who appear drugged or intoxicated while being abused, violent
child molestation. And then this is incomprehensible photorealistic AI gener
rat images of nude pregnant toddlers. Again, AI generated child

(25:06):
porn of toddlers who are pregnant. Yeah, I'm going to
give everyone a second to take a deep breath and
process that. And it gets worse. Jonathan was part of
a Snapchat group called Diddy Disciples, Yeah Diddy Disciples, a
reference to Sean ditty Combs, who's you know, currently facing
sexual assault and trafficking charges himself, and according to chat logs,

(25:29):
Jonathan was actively distributing this material to other users. He
wasn't just consuming it, he was actually actively distributing it.
He was a node in the network. And then investigators
found more than fifty photos and videos on Jonathan's devices
showing his own parents nude or engaged in sex acts,

(25:50):
sex tapes of Nathan, Peter Noll, and his wife on
their son's phone, alongside hundreds of files of child's sex
abuse material. Than On October twenty sixth, three days after
his son's arrest, Nathan Peternell addresses his congregation at Life Church,
and in front of his entire church, he talks about
the sex tapes. He admits that he and his wife

(26:12):
made private intimate videos kept in a password protected account,
claims Jonathan accessed them without permission while high on marijuana.
Says that while what occurs within marriage is not sinful,
some may see that is unwise and reflecting poor choices
on our part. So his defense is essentially, yes, we
made sex tapes. Yes, our son was arrested for possessing

(26:32):
horrific sea sam. He also somehow accessed our sex tapes,
but technically sex within marriages in a sin, So the
only mistake on our part was an adequate password protection. Really,
if your entire brand, and this is what I cannot
stand cannot stand about some conservative evangelical, far right Christians right,
is that the ones who preach against homosexuality the hardest

(26:53):
are usually the ones found late Saturday or Friday night
at the local glory hole. His entire brand is preaching
sexual purity and restraint. I don't give two a flying
farts what any consenting adults do privately, as long as
it's consensual.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
You know.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Again, as long as it's consensual, I'm good. I don't care.
But if you're on a podcast telling everyone else how
to live their sex lives and how to be pure,
even how married women can be pure for their husbands,
how about you not create blackmail material of yourself? And second,
how did your son access password protective videos? Was he

(27:30):
hacking your accounts or passwords saved shared? This doesn't just
happen if your son was that determined to access your
private videos. Something tells me that there were probably signs
of visible signs that he needed, that he had some
severe psychological issues that needed to be addressed. And lastly,
the level of oversharing here is diabolical. Nobody needs to

(27:51):
hear that, you know. Nathan Peternell again to recap, hosts
a podcast about sexual morality, promotes purity culture, which is
so toxic, and then he also rails against pornography all
the time and how it's destroying society. Meanwhile, his own son,
living in his house, presumably raised with these same values,
was arrested with over two hundred files of sea Sam

(28:12):
so disturbing that seasoned investigators called it the worst they'd
ever seen. That's felony level child exploitation. And his dad,
you know, the podcaster and pastor, makes his living telling
others how to be moral. But let's talk about Lieutenant
Governor Micah beckwith because he's enmeshed in this whole mess too.
Beckworth co host Jesus Sex and Politics with Nathan. He's

(28:34):
also a pastor at Live Church's Noblesville campus. Nathan described
him as one of my best friends and his spiritual
brother in arms. They spent years on that podcast railing
against moral decay. Frequent topic is going against LGBTQ rights,
sex education in schools. They've basically, i mean, essentially positioned

(28:54):
themselves as moral arbiters of Indiana, defenders of traditional values,
protectors of children. The liberals and the gays want to
kill us all and infect us like typical culture warriors.
And now Beckwith released a brief statement saying he became
aware of the allegations on October twenty third, after the
arrest was made, and then he declined all further comment.

(29:17):
That's it the extent of his response to his cohost
son being arrested for heinous child exploitation charges. No condemnation,
no acknowledgment, just no comment. And this isn't even the
only sex scandal rocking MAGA right now, especially the evangelical side.
There was just a recent piece that came out on
multiple conservative Christian leaders facing sexual misconduct allegations just the

(29:40):
past month. At some point, you have to stop treating
it as isolated incidents and recognize it as a feature
not a bug. I mean, let's talk about purity culture
in what this bullshit breeds and not just Nathan's individual hypocrisy,
but the entire system that he tries to sell. I
could go on and on and on and on for
the next hour about in go against how purity culture

(30:02):
is just so sincerely fucked up, but I will spare
you from that, but I would like to highlight of
just how it creates such a profound identity crisis. Someone's
entire sexual identity becomes virgin or not virgin. There's no
room to explore who you're attracted to, what brings you pleasure,
what your values actually are. And for LGBT, you know

(30:23):
Q plus individuals, purity culture is psychological torture. Same sex
attraction isn't just discouraged, it's treated as worse sin than
heterosexual fornication. It's an abomination that can't be prayed away.
So the consequences of this, you know, and then also
promoting rape culture when you're never taught about consent, when
the only messages don't have sex, you don't learn to

(30:45):
recognize assault. Women from purity culture often don't realize they
were assaulted until years later because they don't know if
it counted if they didn't physically fight back. The consequences
aren't just psychological, though they're physical. Chronic disconnection from your
body leads to chronic pain, illness, sexual dysfunction. When you're
taught for years that your body and your desires are sinful,

(31:09):
you learn to disassociate from physical sensations. You become disconnected
from yourself on a fundamental level. And I think the
Pternell case is particularly representative. You know, the people are
preaching purity culture loudest are almost always living by an
entirely different set of rules than their flock. Nathan Peternell
preach sexual purity while recording pornography of himself. I'm not

(31:33):
saying purity culture are directly caused Jonathan's crimes. Causation is complicated.
Human behavior is multi determined, But I am saying that
it creates this Peatrie dish, an environment where sexuality is shameful.
It's secretive, it's repressed, it's twisted. You know, power dynamics
are fucked up. Accountability doesn't exist for leaders. When you

(31:56):
teach people all sexuality is shameful unless within various specific,
narrow parameters. You're not teaching morality. You're teaching people to hide.
You're teaching that appearance of purity matters more than actual
ethical behavior. And I think we see that every damn day,
because that's how you get megachurch pastors who they themselves

(32:17):
are arrested for rape, sexual assault, money, you know, all
of that, because the focus was never a preventing harm.
The focus was always on looking pure, signaling virtue, that
performative morality. Jonathan Peter Nell has pleaded not guilty to
all charges. He's out on twenty five thousand dollars bond, which, y'all,

(32:38):
that seems incredibly low for someone accused of possessing and
distributing again over two hundred files of sea sam but
also AI generated seesam of pregnant toddlers. His dispositional hearing
is scheduled for January sixteenth of twenty twenty six, and
if convicted, he faces more than twenty years in prison.

(32:58):
His father announced that he'd rarely step away from preaching
duties for at least a week and a half. Oh
my God, blessed. I just find it so fascinating that
we just see it repeatedly, day after day, month after month,
year after year, of these holier than now conservative evangelicals
on the far far far right keep getting popped for
prostitution or child porn or beating their wives or things

(33:21):
like that, basically the antithesis of everything that they supposedly
stand for. It's not even amusing anymore. It's almost expected.
But before we wrap up for today, you guys, I
just want to tell you about one more case that
just had some major developments this week. And I'm mentioning
it specifically because it connects to something that we've kind
of been discussing here in the theme, which is the
gap between public image and private reality, between what people

(33:44):
project to the world and what's actually happening behind closed doors.
And I've actually seen that in a handful of cases
over the last week. Specifically, I just kind of going
through headlines and reading updates and thinking, wow, it's just crazy.
Especially in the age of the internet how media in particular,
you just see smiling, happy faces, and it's so important
to just look happy, be with your partner, have a nice,

(34:07):
big house, have the perfect family picket fence life. And
it's never ever, ever, ever liked that. I was about
to say that's the culture now, but it is. It's
kind of always been the culture, right If you think
mid century nineteen fifties, how everything was absolutely wonderful. Women
were drugged out of their goddamn minds and didn't talk
back and just did the cleaning and sat and smoked
cigarettes and drank gin at home, and the husbands went

(34:30):
to work and had mistresses and came home. But to
the outside world they were a loving, doting family and
no one talked about their problems, you know, So I
guess that I'd take that back. Christina Jocksmovic a former
Miss Switzerland finalist, thirty eight years old, two young daughters
with bright red hair born seventeen months apart. She has
a successful business as a catwalk coach, mentoring other models

(34:53):
and pageant contestants. She's trained Miss Universe contestants. She coached
the woman who became Miss Switzerland and twenty twenty three.
By all outward appearances, she had the perfect life, perfect family,
perfect career. On Instagram, she posted photos of family vacations
at Lake Lucerne, couples getaways, pictures of her daughters, black

(35:14):
and white shots of her and her eldest child by
the lake. Her life looked like something from a lifestyle magazine.
February thirteenth, twenty twenty four, her husband Thomas, strangled her
to death in their home in Benningen, Switzerland. Then he
spent hours dismembering her body with a jigsaw, a knife,
and garden shears. He decapitated her. He removed her womb,

(35:35):
the only organ he completely extracted from her Torso he
used an industrial blender to pureate parts of her body,
and then he dissolved her remains in a chemical solution.
And while he was doing this, he was watching YouTube
videos on his phone. This week, December tenth, Swiss prosecutors
formally charged Thomas with her murder. He's forty three and

(35:57):
he's been in preventive detention since February fourteenth. The trial
date has not been set. And really quickly, here's how
all of this unraveled. February thirteenth, the kindergarten where their
daughter's attended called Christina's father. No one came to pick
up the children. Could he collect them. Christina's father picks
up his granddaughters and brings them to their parents' home.

(36:17):
Only Thomas is there no sign of Christina. According to
a friend who spoke to Daily Mail, Thomas acted as
if nothing was wrong for hours he chatted with Christina's father,
He made dinner for everyone. He tucked his children into
their beds, normal family routine, but Christina's father knew something
was off, and he started looking around in the laundry room.

(36:38):
He found a black garbage bag with blonde hair sticking
out of it, his daughter's recognizable gold hair. When investigators arrived,
they found the industrial blender, Christina's remains, flaps of skin
with muscles attached, chunks of bone, the jigsaw knife, garden shears.
The autopsy revealed full horror. Christina had been strangled, reddish

(37:01):
throttle marks on her neck. That was the cause of death,
but the violence didn't stop. There cuts on her face,
bruises on her body and back of her head, hair
ripped out, signs of blunt force trauma, definite signs of
a struggle. Thomas broke her hip joints out of their
sockets to remove her legs. He dislocated bones in her
left upper arm, fore arm's right lower leg. He severed

(37:24):
her spine to remove her head, and he carefully and
deliberately removed her womb. The autopsy report specifically notes this
only organ completely extracted from her torso. Court documents suggest
that this indicates deliberate mutilation or ritualized degradation of the body,
possibly indicating mental disorder. When police searched Thomas's phone records,

(37:47):
they discovered He'd been watching YouTube videos while dismembering his
wife while cutting up the mother of his children, the
woman that he had married in twenty seventeen, whose body
he just strangled. He was casually watching, you to. Court
documents don't specify what videos, but the fact that he
was consuming content maintaining just at least a partial level

(38:08):
of normalcy while committing one of the worst horrific acts imaginable.
I mean, that tells you everything about Thomas's psychological state.
Thomas initially told investigators he came home and found Christina
dead by the stairs, you know, just found her already deceased.
Then he changed his story, claimed Christina attacked him with
a knife and that he killed her in self defense

(38:28):
and then dismembered her body in a panic. Autopsy report
contradicts both versions of his stories. No evidence of self defense, strangulation, marks,
pattern of injuries, systematic dismemberment. None of that supports reactive
violence or panic. Court documents described Thomas's actions as showing
planned and systematic approach to dismembering and disposing of the body.

(38:52):
This wasn't panic, this was methodical and calculated. Prosecutors noted
Thomas displayed remarkably high level of criminal energy, lack of empathy,
and cold bloodedness after killing his wife. Court documents describe
him as having a sidistic sociopathic traits, and another chilling detail,
Thomas attempted hiding evidence by placing Christina's phone on a

(39:14):
delivery truck, trying to create a false trail make it
look like she'd left. This is not behavior of someone
who acted in panic. This is behavior of someone covering
his tracks. Clearly. Friends described them as seeming like the
perfect family, but another friend said the relationship had been
in crisis for months. Police had been called to the

(39:34):
residents before over reports of physical violence. A source close
to Christina told twenty min Newton that she was planning
to leave Thomas, that she wanted to break up but
was afraid of him. Another friend said a former model
had alleged Thomas once grabbed Christina by the neck and
slammed her head into the wall. Pattern of violence, pattern
of control, pattern of fear, classic dynamic of domestic abuse,

(39:57):
public facade of perfect family and the private reality of terror.
According to friends, the relationship deteriorated after Thomas launched his
business in twenty twenty two. His temper changed quickly and
the relationship crumbled. Just weeks before she was killed, Christina
posted photos from a couple's getaway on Instagram, smiling pictures,
beautiful scenery, appearance of a loving relationship. Four weeks later,

(40:21):
her husband would go on to strangle her to death
and then spend hours dismembering her body. Court documents indicate
concrete indications that the complainant has a mental illness or
significant psychopathological personality disorder. But let's be clear, mental illness
again doesn't cause this. Vast majority of people with mental
health issues aren't violent. They're far more likely again to

(40:43):
be victims than perpetrators. The removal of the womb is
also particularly significant. Again, the only organ Thomas completely extracted.
Why what is the symbolic meaning behind that? Court documents
don't speculate a womb had carried their two daughters. It
was an organ representing her fertility, her motherhood, her ability

(41:07):
to create life. And then Thomas removed it carefully and deliberately.
I feel like that's not random, and I feel it's
obviously not panic. Right, he did it methodically. That's a
statement in my opinion. You know, I think that's a
final act of ownership and destruction. And now her two
daughters are going to grow up without a mother or
a father. And guys, we have got to stop believing

(41:28):
public image and that it tells us anything about the
private reality. We have got to stop assuming people who
look happy on social media are actually happy. And we
have got to stop thinking that successful, attractive, accomplished people
are somehow immune to domestic violence. We've seen it. We
see it repeatedly in Hollywood culture. There is a certain

(41:49):
level of these people are so rich and famous they
would never ever ever find themselves in a situation of
domestic violence because they're pretty or successful or you know,
famous actor. It doesn't really matter. Need I remind you
of Rihanna and guess who's selling out stadiums, Chris Brown.
No one's immune to it. Domestic violence cuts across every
single demographic, income level, educational background, profession and perpetrators are

(42:14):
often very very good at maintaining public facade. If you're
a Patreon patron, I shared my experience with domestic violence.
They're charming, they're successful, they seem like good partners, good people,
until they're not. Thomas remains in preventative detention and Swiss
authorities emphasize presumption of innocence still applies. Although he has

(42:35):
confessed to the killing. The trial date hasn't been set.
But given the evidence, autopsy report, confession, phone records showing
YouTube video during the dismemberment portion, and then just the
systematic nature of this crime as a whole, I mean
conviction is almost guaranteed. Switzerland abolished the death penalty entirely

(42:55):
in nineteen forty two, so the maximum sentence is life imprisonment,
which means that Thomas will spend the rest of his
life in prison, which is exactly where someone who strangles
their wife removes their womb and pure raise her body
parts while watching YouTube should be. But that is it
for today. Guys. If you found this episode valuable or
at least cathartic, please subscribe wherever you're listening, leave a

(43:18):
review if you're feeling particularly generous, it goes a long way.
You have no idea it actually helps more people find
the show, and then lastly follow on Instagram. You can
do that. We Saw the Devil podcast where I post
case updates, breaking news memes. Yeah, that's pretty much. If
you're interested in political commentary, check out my other show,
Red White and Bruce, which is also on this feed.

(43:39):
New episode will be dropping on Saturday, and I'm excited
about that. And that is basically where I get stoned
and then just rant, stay safe, stay informed, stay rested,
and most importantly, stay hydrated. Y'all. Water is important. I'm Robin.
This has when We Saw the Devil until next crime