April 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Robin and Iris unpack the guilty verdict in the Lori Vallow trial—covering our favorite bits of testimony, our true opinions, and how the case unfolded in court. This podcast has covered the murders of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan, and the influence of Chad Daybell in the past. Let's talk about Lori's 2nd trial, and what we're looking forward to next.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
(00:22):
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and arm.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Chair sleuths obsessed.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Be forewarned, dear listener, We Saw the Devil is not
for the faint of heart. Our unflinching exploration will take
you to the darkest corners of the psyche, and through
the unimaginable depths of human darkness, to unearthed stark secrets,
to the harsh light of day. Nothing will be left untouched.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Are you ready? Are you sure? We Saw the Devil?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Everyone, you're listening to We Saw the Devil. This is
Robin and Special Guests tonight, guys. I know that we
said that we were going to cover the trial as
it was happening, but a very special guest kind of
came down with the plague, and so we then decided
to cover the full trial at the end. We've been
waiting on the verdict and it is here, so welcome Iris.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hello everyone. I am so glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's been a while, it has everyone loves you, Iris.
Every time you come on, everyone messages they just want
to hear more of you.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Oh, thank you, And you're my Valo buddy.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
True God, we've been talking about Lori Valos for I mean,
I've known you basically half of my life at this point,
but we've been talking.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
God.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Sorry, that hit really hard. God, And I just started
wearing glasses this week too, so cool. But we've been covered.
We've been talking about Valo since Nate Eaton was stalking
her on a beach, you know. So I'm really excited.
I feel like we're one step closer to this chapter being.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Closed, almost just one trial away, one.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Trial away, which you informed me of not long ago
this evening. So let's talk about Valo. How does it
feel like have you been keeping up with the random
small updates and pre trial stuff as well before this
one or did you kind of take a break after
the Lori Chad trials.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Well, I did take a break until the dateline interview.
I was very surprised that she actually was going to
give an interview first of all, and that they would
let her. But then I remembered, Laurie is not an Idaho.
Laurie is in Arizona, which is very different on how
they news things. So I walked it and it was
(02:59):
very and informative. She decided to talk about you know,
little anecdotes instead of answering questions, which was irritating as hell.
I ended up just turning it off because she wasn't
really saying anything, so, you know, typical LORI going circles.
And then of course I saw that jury selection was happening,
and I was my little heart went pitter patter, you know,
(03:24):
because finally we were moving ahead. And I did watch
from some of the jury selection all the way till
today and we had our verdict.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
We did guilty. And it didn't take very long either.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Three hours is what they deliberated. Three hours.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Craziness. I mean, I'm not surprised, No, well.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm kind of a little surprised, being that it's Arizona, right,
and Arizona is stand your ground type of law there
for self defense. And they were interviewing jury and stuff,
and Anee Eaton said that one of the jurors said
that in his mind, she was not guilty. Really yes,
(04:09):
until the prosecutor when they did their closing statement and
pulled everything together for him, that's when he goes, ah,
this bitch is guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That closing statement was masterful. And for those of you
who are unaware, the closing statement by Trina Cray or
Trina Kay was an hour and forty five minutes long.
This bitch busted out the PowerPoint presentation clips of people.
I mean, she just tied it all up with a bow.
I mean, it was just incredible.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
It was pretty incredible, and I really enjoyed how she
did that. She basically reminded everyone, here are the facts.
Here's what it sounded like. Now it's your turn to
figure it out. Is she guilty or not.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Arizona, like you just said, is a standard ground state,
and it has a heavy sentiment with that support. And
so I mean, Trina Kay just put it on the line.
She was like, executing a man who was laying on
the ground is not self defense according to Arizona law. Boom,
that's it. That's it, you know what I mean. And
then the facts in terms that we'll talk about in
(05:21):
a moment, you know, with Charles and the death and
what exactly happened there transpired in that hallway. I mean
that was pretty cut and dry, like she made that
so cut and dry.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It was, and I think the whole time everything was
very cut and dry. It was very precise. There was
no you know, they didn't try to pretty it up,
they didn't try to doll it up. The witnesses came in,
they made their statements again concise, you know, very very
well put. And then you know, we have the lower
(05:50):
East Side, and oh my god, I think had she
had a competent lawyer who could give a well thought
out closing statement without getting you know, sustained for you know,
for every objection, you know, she might add a chance.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And let's cover that really quickly.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Actually, first of all, a lot of people I've seen everywhere,
even friends, have said, why is Laurie even having another trial.
She's already got life in prison in Idaho. Idahos handling
of what happened and transpired went down in Idaho. So
Arizona is now stepping up for the crimes that happened
on their turf. And that's how the justice system works.
(06:40):
Each state has a responsibility to go after justice for
its own people. So if Arizona just shrugged and said, well,
she's already locked up for life, that's basically telling the
victims' families in their own state that their life and
justice doesn't matter. That's what happens in the United States.
No matter every single defendant, no matter how fucked up
(07:00):
they are, everyone has a right to trial for every
single thing they are charged. They are charged with. If
Lori Valo is facing something new, she gets hit her
day in court, which we're about to apparently see in
June with the Brandon Boudreau as well. Yes, that is
called due process.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That is why we saw Lori in the Arizona trial.
And to your recent point, and I'm kind of jumping
around here, sustained and overruled. I have never in any
trial in my entire life heard that uttered so many times.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Or even in a closing statement. Yes, I didn't know
you could do that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I was on the road from from my granddaughters from
my daughter's place down back to my house on the freeway,
listening to closing statements, and when that happened, Seriously, I
almost kind of weaved around and was like wait, what
you can object closing state what? But apparently you can't
(08:05):
because she was she was what was she doing with
she was? She was presenting testimony and hearsay, and you
can't do that at all, And apparently you can't do
it on closing statements either.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So we heard a lot of sustained in this trial.
And for those of you who are unaware, you had
to basically get familiar with two terms very quickly in
court if you're not a court junkie, if you don't
watch a lot of trials, and that would be sustained.
And when a judge says objections sustained, it means that
(08:37):
they agree with the objecting attorney that the question, you know,
line of thinking evidence is inadmissible under the rules of evidence. Right,
So that could be because the question is leading, it's speculative,
it's irrelevant, or for whatever reason, or we've heard a
lot of that exactly, And we heard a lot of
that a lot. Yes, Actually the testimony one, especially the testimonies.
(09:03):
I mean I was actually starting to get pretty irritated
by it, to be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
It was and there were times that I was listening
to this and it was like ask the question in
a different way, Laurie, damn it, just ask it in
a different way.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I have never armchair attorneyed so hard in my entire life.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think everybody was, though.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It was kind of like, oh so, I don't know,
please go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
What I was gonna say? It was just in a
way I understand why she wanted to do this herself.
But then in another way, I'm like, what the fuck
are you thinking?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well, why do you think she wanted to I've heard
so many theories about, you know, her just basically wanting
to crassly put fuck with the people who caused all
of this, right Kay and the rest of them. I've
heard that she wants to clear her name, you know,
before she goes to Glory or one of her you know,
through the portal. Like, why do you think she decided
(10:06):
to do it?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I believe she feels betrayed by her prior presentation in
Idaho because they brought Chad into the mix and she
told him absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
No, Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
But not understanding really the law. There is no way
that that would have happened in the first place, because
Chad was not involved in that conspiracy. Yep. So had
she had a competent lawyer, she very well could have
gotten acquitted.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I believe that had she gotten another attorney, like an
actual legitimate, competent attorney, that the result would probably come
back the same. But it would have taken a lot
longer than just three hours to deliberate.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You're probably right, it would have taken a lot longer.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
But oh, it was absolutely painful.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It was, and I think myself, if I would have
been her attorney, the number one question I would have
asked every single detective would be, so when did you
decide to start investigation on this as a murderer? And
then my next question would be was it before or
(11:26):
after prosecutor woulds came into town? Because yes, yes, that
would have been the point right there, that would have
been it. So the police department in Arizona that should
have investigated this pretty much dropped the ball everywhere. So
a competent lawyer would have been able to say, Laurie
(11:48):
went home, Alex Cox went home, Tyler went home. You
did not give them further instructions, Just like Lurie said
in her closing statement, you did not tell them don't
leave you didn't say any of that, and all of
a sudden, you prosecutor would from Minoh comes in, talks
to your department, and all of a sudden, you're going
(12:08):
to open up this case. You were incompetent enough. There
was nothing that was telling you that you needed to
prosecute this. And all of a sudden they had a
new case manager because they had dropped this.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And not only that, but remember they let after the
shooting and police came to the scene, they let LORII
have Charles's phone and keep it.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, after they had investigated. Yeah, yeah, she had his
phone when she left for forty seven minutes and all
of the texts that had sent had been read, which
is why Adam was trying to figure out why Charles
hadn't responded to any of his texts.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yep, because Adam was going to be there for an intervention.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yes, they were going to have an intervention. Now. They
took LRII, Tylee, and Alex to the police. You back
to the the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
State tandlor Chandler, Chandler Police Department.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Thank you so. Chandler Police Department took Alex in the
squad car, and Tylee and Laurie were also taken and
they were being treated as victims because they went to
the victim advocates side of the building for questioning and
all that. Not until then she was she was questioning everything.
(13:28):
They took them back to the house after the warren
had been served and they had searched through there, taken
the body out, and then said, hey, we're missing the phone,
and Larry goes, oh, wait, it's in the I forgot
it's right there in the I think it's one of
the cup holders in the car. So the bitch had
that the whole time. And who knows what got erased?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Right, So.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I don't know if the cloud can tell if some
thing's been deleted. Maybe it can tell it was deleted,
but it can't bring it back, so who knows. But
there you go.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's wild.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think that's a really good perspective though, that has
she had a competent attorney, that would have been a
great line of questioning for sure. And I just you know,
the opening statement. We'll talk about opening statements as well.
And now this episode is obviously under the assumption that
if you're listening to this, you know exactly what happened. Yes,
(14:29):
Charles Vallo was killed by Alex Cox. They basically staged
a murder, right to try to make it look like
Charles Valo was attacking everyone and the kids were there
and all of this. And so Alex is obviously not
in this trial because he died while shodoodling himself on
the toilet. True conveniently, right, coming into this trial, Laurie
(14:55):
was already convicted in Idaho for the murders of Tylie
and JJ and also for her in the death of
Tammy day Bell, Chad Day Bell's first wife. Right, so
she's already received multiple life terms of multiple terms of
life in prison without parole. And you know, Chad Day
Bell is basically waiting for death at this point. He
was sentenced to death. So coming into this, you know,
(15:15):
we all have the context of the entire shit show
that is this case, right, Like, Iris, how many hours
have you spent just reading news articles or reading things
on this case?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Hundreds literally hundreds of hours.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It never ends, like there's always something. And remember back
in the beginning where you had Zalima and all of
these other random people who we were all obsessing over
and reading about, and then it turns out they had
like nothing to do with it. Most likely, Yeah, most
most likely. Most likely, we do not know. I mean
I personally think they were likely aware, but that's my
(15:54):
personal opinion. Allegedly so, but yeah, so we came into
this and then you know, the opening statement to me
by Prosecutor k was incredible and it's the same theme
from the first trial, money, sex and power basically, right,
So they said, you know, this is alleged spirits conspiracy
between Lourie and Alex Cox to murder Charles Valo. The
(16:17):
motive is that Laurie wanted Charles's life insurance policy and
social security. I mean, she just laid it out. And
then what I found really interesting about this one is
that she really knocked it home and brought up the
spirit named Ned, that Charles was possessed by his spirit
named Ned, and that she tried to cast it.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Out, and she brought witnesses to say.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
That isn't wasn't that wild?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It was? And they kind of brought the religious aspect
of this into the trial, but not the way they
did in Idaho. Yes, correct, And I think the reason
why they did it that way in Idaho it's because
they had they had a Mormon audience here, they had
to explain who Nephi was. They had to explain some
(17:06):
of the aspects of the Mormon religion. Yep. They had
to bring in religion and they had to explain it.
But it wasn't done in any crassway, I guess, kind
of trying to make it it all about religion instead
of these two just wanted the money, I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And ultimately I think that's you know what it was,
especially when she brought on her friend Christina Attwood and
she testified, you know, about Lourie and said that Laurie
again claimed that Charles was possessed by dark spirits as
she talked about casting them out. She witnessed Laurie praying
for Charles over that, and then also Laurie admitted to
(17:47):
crushing up JJ's meds in Charles's dreams and Laurie was like, yeah,
that was just a joke.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But was it, bitch?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
But was it?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And Christina, I think, you know, was trying to cover
her ass and said, well, I warrant Lourie and told
her that I'd go to police if anything happens mmmm
mm hmm and did you did you no? And then
she also said that she heard Alex Cox say that
he wanted to kill Charles back in late twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Right, So all of this which brings me back to again,
if there had been a competent lawyer on this, when
the female detective was interviewing Laurie and Laurie had her
you know, she was questioning her as a witness, a
(18:39):
competent lawyer would have said, so you knew then that
Laurie had been called in to Chandler police for a
psyche bell and she wouldn't have She wouldn't be able
to say yes or no because they didn't. They didn't
even check up on her because in their mind, they
had already made up their mind that she was a victim,
which means that it was slow, loppy police work. And
(19:02):
I think one of the reasons why these guys were
with the Jenner Police Department was going after Laurie was
to vindicate itself so they wouldn't look like a bunch
of Keystone cops mm hmmm because of this, And they
probably didn't want Kay Woodcock, the wood you know, the Woodcocks,
to come after them, you know, with a lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, I mean, I don't blame I mean that was
the shoddiest police work I have seen in a while.
I mean, they just didn't really even try or care.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
They didn't. It was connect with Gabby, you know, the
the cop, Yeah right, the fucking cop chuckling with Brian.
You know, I got one of those at won't do God.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think the police are probably so jaded from what
they see and witness on a daily basis. They just
make assumptions and they get jaded, you know. And it
doesn't make it right whatsoever for the.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Police department to bring Laurie in and have her or
not ask her the right questions the first time.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, when she was just batting her eyes and yahoosy.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Cutte and flirting with the psychologist and flirting with the
cops or like this is a bomb, bimbo, she's not
saying anything. Yeah, And then it comes back to how
manipulative Florie was, how she knew how to play the part,
because that's exactly what she did.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You and I have discussed this on the podcast previously,
and I take a lot of people and I see
it every day still are really pissed that she did
not get the death penalty as well. I will say
it again and I will die on this hill that
I'm glad she didn't get the death penalty because she's
so severely mentally ill. Someone can be you know, quote
unquote evil, right, take from that whatever you you know,
(20:48):
what you may or will, But she's an awful human being.
She is clearly a narcissist. She's clearly susceptible to brainwashing. Right,
she still hasn't been programmed from Chad Dabel's bullshit.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Well, she hasn't been deprogrammed from the religious upbringing that she.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Had exactly exactly starting from the very beginning. And then
you know, Chad just basically took it a little like
offshoot belief so that he'd be king of the mountain.
It was just like, I actually feel sad for her
because if you look at the big picture of it,
it's been claimed, it's never been confirmed that you know,
she was sexually abused by her father, Barry, that's Mary Cox.
(21:30):
That's been put out there repeatedly, that her mother was
vapid and cared only about looks, emotionally cold, no support,
and she was basically doomed by being born into that
family to begin with. All of that, Like, I just
I just see how a human being could be created
and almost a sort of Petrie dish, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Most most definitely And you know a lot of people
will go, oh, well, a poor little rich girl, right, Okay,
sure I can give you that. But just like you
were saying, Laurie was predisposed to all of the weird
and zealotry that Chad Dave Bell had. Yea, And it wasn't.
(22:09):
It wasn't because of Chad day Bell. She was already
involving herself in the prepare of people and prepping and
doing all these things which she was becoming a zealot.
And because she was already in that zealot mind mode,
when Chad day Bell shows up and starts giving her
(22:29):
all these ideas and telling her, you and I were
married already, and you're going to be you know, translated,
and you're going to do this and that, and you're
going to be a goddess. I'm going to be the god,
and we're going to lead the one hundred and forty
four thousand. Listening to all of her Sunday school and
messages at the temple had already told her these things
(22:53):
are going to happen. And then Chad comes in and says, yeah,
these things are going to happen, and you're to be
front and center.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yep, beieve it. I mean, look at the case of
Jim Jones, right, Jim Jones, you know, the infamous kool
Aid dude, or not kool aid, but you know what
I mean, flavor aid, same thing. He had women pining
over him, and he promised them the world as well.
And it's the combination of people and their you know,
a lot of them at least religious upbringing, being predisposed
(23:23):
to it. And then when you're already in her case
of narcissists, and narcissists want to be surrounded by successful
people and powerful people as well. Right, so you take
her narcissism as well.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Well.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
That attaches onto Chad day Bell immediately. You know, the
religious zelotry attaches right on. I mean, it doesn't take
a rocket scientist to see how she ended up this way,
you know. And before people start climbing all over my
ass and sending me messages that I'm sympathizing with a killer,
I'm not sympathizing with her in any capacity. We also
(23:55):
have free will, but I do empathize in terms of
just like that suck, you know what I mean? Like
some people and I've seen it play over and over
and over again. Some people are raised with a shit
end of the stick. Some rise above it and some don't.
And it's unfortunate. And it's sad that two children and
you know, another woman had to die in the process
of that.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, it's extremely sad. But you know, this is how
we we as humans. That's this is how we are, right, Yep,
there's that. It's the cave man mentality where the guy
who beats his chest the hardest and the one everybody
gives attention to, that's the one that's attractive, and that's
the one the women want to falk to because of power.
(24:38):
Please don't come at us because, oh my god, you're
being so misogynistic. No, I am not. I am just
coming to this any sociological mindset. Sociology was my miner
in a group of people, those who need to be
protected or feel they need to be protected, will always
go to the biggest and the loudest person, whether it's
(24:59):
a man or a woman, that's who they're going to
gravitate to. And if you already have narcissistic tendencies, that
is who you're going to gravitate to. So you are
already predisposed to flock to this type of people. And
that's what happened with Laurie. Did she have to do
the things that they did to those children? No, of
(25:20):
course not, and she could at one point said you
know what, this is wrong, completely agree. But we also
have to remember that Laurie, it's very obvious, lives in
a fantasy world. No, that does not apologize or not
make her guilty of what she's done.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
Absolver of hers thank you for the word, you know,
but yeah, you know it does an absolver her of it,
but it does kind of give you a better picture
of why she did the things she did.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And again, you know some of the people, some of
the men that she married very obviously was you know
the god. I hate saying this, but the alpha male.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's true though, Charles very much.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Before anybody that comes back like, no, no, no, there's
no true. Well, let's look at Adam Cox. Adam Cox
didn't you know, fall for Chad and his bullshit and
it in a way Janie did too.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Well do you think it's because they were located more
in Idaho and wasn't Adam in California, Like Adam never
really was around the family right that much.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
No, not that much. I mean, Adam had his own life, right,
but she knew he knew Charles and they had a rapport.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So you would think as a mom if you find
out that your daughter was cheating on the husband that
was taking very good care of her, very good care,
as a mom would have been bit you better not
fuck this up, that right thing for everything, including our phones.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
For me.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
But yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's a it's
a sad state of affairs.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
But but all of that to be that entire tangent
sorry instigated by me is the fact that I'm glad
that Lauri has life in prison. I think she's incredibly
mentally ill, and I think she's exactly where she belongs
for life.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes, exactly where she belongs.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
And I feel like we've discussed this previously as well,
But I feel like Chad day Bell knows is way
more cognizant and coherent of reality, and I think that
he knows what he did was wrong and fucked up.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
I agree with you one hundred percent. So do you
want to talk about some of the lackluster witnesses. Yes,
the medical examiner being.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
One of Oh god, well, since you have a medical
examine or background, how about you you take that one.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Okay. So the medical examiner gets up there and they're
asking him a very very basic question. First of all,
the man looks like he's preparing himself for colinospopy. He
just does not want to be there. He's irritated and
he's bored and almost offended that he has to be there. Oh,
(28:27):
they're asking him basic questions, what did you see, how
did you do it? What kind of cut did you do?
Did you find this? Did you find that? And he's
like yeah, mmmm, yes, no, this that we found this,
and that he was just he was bothered.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
He was boned, but.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a good way to describe it. He was bothered.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And there was nothing bombastic about the autopsy. It was
a very very standard autopsy. They found, you know, the
entry wound, they found the exit wound. They found that
he had a blow to he hit his head, He
had abrasions on his knees, he had abrasions on his hands,
(29:15):
you know, and they was like, well what killed him?
The bullet wounds, you know, and the prosecutor did a
good job, but she also felt like she was just
going through the motions with this m h. I think
it was more of a presentation for the jury of
it wasn't the shirt that that caused the stipling, It was,
(29:37):
you know, the bullet and how close he was. Then
Laurie gets up asks about do you know about bamboo.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And her baby voice, which carries on, like, I think.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Through the whole trial, the questioning of the medical examiner
RECEI the most objections it sustained.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yes, yes, I think the other one was in terms
of like objections, was what Serena Sharp? Yes, when Laurie
was cross examining Serena Sharp, whom, if you recall, was
one of her friends, right, she just opens it and
asks Serena Sharp, is your testimony accountable to God? Like
you can't, okay, And then she tried to get her
(30:27):
to say verbatim verbatim that she used the word quote
zombie and that had multiple That entire shit show had
multiple objections there as well. I mean, my god, yes,
it was just it was awful. I wanted to scream
into the void.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I was like, Glorie, just stop, it's been overrule, just sustained, sustained,
sustain just stop.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
And Laurie kept arguing. She was like, oh, I should
be allowed to question biblical, biblical content to prove you
know that these beliefs are within LDS scope. And she
was trying so hard on the religious front and it
just did not connect.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
No, which again tells you where this chick was coming from.
She was taking a complete I wonder sometimes if she
was taking a complete religious bent to this whole thing.
And I think that's where she's at because in her mind,
in her reality, she doesn't even have to ask for
forgiveness anymore. So anything she does is aokay with God.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I truly believe that's where she's at mentally.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Completely.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I mean her entire demeanor, right, I mean, a sane,
just well adjusted and adapted person would not be smiling
and laughing through her first trial like she was smiling
and laughing and seems completely fine, annoyed, you know, even
like it was all beneath her. And then this trial
as well, she decides to represent herself and pushed an
(31:54):
entire religious religious aspects by the right.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
And then acts like a little brat when she gets
told you can't do that.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I mean, and the defense was pretty much I would
say that, well, no, I'll take that. I guess like
Laurie is entire of strategy, if you can even say
that she had a strategy, because I don't even know
what that was. The prosecution came and they focused on
digital evidence, you know, religious language, the timelines, the law,
and then they focused on all of that, and Laurie
(32:26):
just is like, I really want her to say zombie.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
You know, yes, I want her to say, zombie. I
want you to explain to me why you didn't test
the bamboo fabric of his church, why you didn't lumine
all the bat why you didn't lumine all the.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Gun and then asking people like quizzing them on their
understanding of Nephi and tried to basically say, well, there
are multiple different profits and you need to, you know,
what is your understanding of that, And she also tried
to say that well, actually, you know, her kind of
(33:11):
allegation of bias and the investigation not being complete. For
a split second there I was thinking, Okay, wow, maybe
she's going barking up the right tree and she's gonna
come about this, and no, no, it didn't go anywhere
at all. When when bamboo shirt.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yea bamboo shirt, right, it was like, yes, okay, go
go down this road, go down this road. And then
that I didn't want her to be found not guilty,
but at least you know, I could say, Okay, she's
cognizant enough to know this is the right road to
go down.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Right, right, I mean, and honestly, I it's why I
have a degree in political science and why I got
into law school, right is because I love politics. Politics
itself is a game on the national stage, and then
also the courtroom. I love courtroom drama too. Write it
is a game. And my jaw almost hit the floor.
(34:13):
Do you remember when Lourie I think it was Duncan,
I forgot who it was. She basically just emphasized, well,
my family and I we were all very cooperative with you,
and we came in and we offered everything, and it's
not my fault that law enforcement didn't investigate more thoroughly.
I was like, oh, imagine, imagine being told that by
(34:35):
Laurie Valo of all people.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Oh my god, how embarrassing. But she had a point,
and I was hoping when she said that it was like, yes, no,
keep going down this road. Ask them, did you start
to since investigation after A G. Woods came to town?
Is that when you started it? But no, no, she
(35:00):
did not. I was like last opportunity.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I mean, I obviously wanted her to be found guilty,
and I'm very happy for you know, Charles's family, friends
and loved ones. I'm astatic for them, and I'm happy
with outcome. But oh my god, it would have made
it so much more interesting if Lori Valo had come
in like Elle Woods.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
On that.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
And at least put up some sort of fight. We
all expected too much.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yes, I guess we did. I guess we did. There
was no fight. And even the Brandon Boudreau trial that's
coming up, they're not expecting more than two to three
weeks on that. So that tells you something.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Will we see Melanie in that trial?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, Melanie's gonna have to be there.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
She has to be. Honestly, I was reading on why
they didn't pull like Melanie or Lemma or anyone for
this trial. And if any of you listeners know or
have a better reading or reason or understanding, because I
know that a couple attorneys do listen to the show.
I read that it was because they didn't want to
bring a lot of witnesses from the Idaho case so
that there couldn't be like a mistrial or something was
(36:06):
divulged that couldn't be.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
No, very very true. The jury did not know about
the Idaho trial.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Uh huh, yup.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So if any of that was divulged and they find
out that she was already guilty of conspiracy for murder
with Tyleee, Tammy and JJ and of course two children,
I mean, bitch, would have been no. Within fifteen minutes,
I had to come back says no, she's she's guilty.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
So it couldn't be tainted. You were going to be
tainting the jury with those possible jurys. It wouldn't have
been the prosecutor. It would have been Laurie that would
have tainted the jury. She would have said something, and then,
of course, because the jury could ask questions right there
and then, which is which baffled me. But then I
(36:57):
was like, well that's kind of cool. Yeah, that would
have opened up in New Canel worms and then it
would have been a mistrial.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, I completely agree, completely agree. It's just she did
not do well at all. And I know a lot
of people were, you know, hoping for different, but it
just did not. Her entire game was supposed to be
planting the seed of a reasonable doubt, right, That's all
that she had to do, was just plant the seed
of reasonable doubt. That's why she, I guess, kept dragging
(37:25):
Tilely into it, right, couldn't really defend herself. So Laurie's
out here painting like she was the one with the
real problems, that her relationship with Charles was problematic, and
that she and Charles didn't get along, and she's the
one that brought the bat into the situation. And I
feel like that was her trying to plant the seed
of well, maybe we don't know exactly how Charles died,
Like maybe Charles was actually attacking Tiley, you know, if
(37:48):
they had that history and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
It is And not only was she trying to bring
Tiny into the event that happened, but then turned her
into a victim of when she asked, I think it
was Detective Duncan about well, you know, did you let
us go? I told you that my daughter Tyley needed
(38:12):
her anxiety pills, but you guys wouldn't let us go.
Get them. Why was that, you know? And these questions.
So I wonder if the jury also got that where
she was flip flopping rolls, because first Alex Alex was
a protector, and then he was the victim, and then
Tyley was the protector, and then she was the victim
(38:32):
and Laurie was the instigator. But then she tried to
make herself the victim and she did that with Nancy
Joe and I am sorry, but Nancy Joe, what was
she also a woodcock?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Hancock?
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Hancock? Okay, so many cocks.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I know, so many cocks, Beavis and but head there.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
So even Nancy Joe Hancock was like, don't flatter yourself, darling.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I'm gonna play the clip now.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
By the way, please, So are you trying to tell
me and this jury that you went on one date
with my husband and he told you all the details
of our lives. I'm telling you the truth and that's
what I know. So you just make your whole date
getting to know each other talking about me. Don't flatter yourself. No,
(39:33):
we did not spend the whole time talking about you.
You talked you knew a lot about me, right.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
I knew what I've testified to that is my favorite
part of this whole try.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
I've been saying it every day all the time. Someone
from work will be like, hey, how's it going, and
I will just randomly say, don't flatter yourself, no contact,
no relevance, no nothing, still flatter yourself. I just my
favorite part of the entire trial.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
It was a great comeback because, you know, Laurie is like, well,
do you make it?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, do you date married men?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Habit dating married man? And She's like, he said he
wasn't and he said he was separated, blah blah blah,
this and that, and Laurie's like remember and she's like, yeah,
don't let.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Did you guys talk about me on your date? And
don't flatter yourself? I mean it was seamless, right, seamless, seamless.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I was like, yes, who But okay, So was that
a surprise? Was that a surprise for you that Charles
Vallow was dating people?
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Not really?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I mean he was a good looking dude for his
age and you know, separated from Laurie, So it didn't
surprise me, and it did surprise you, It.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Did a little, But I was stupid surprised that one
of those people was going to be a witness, right, Okay, Yeah,
that that did surprise me.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You know, I've heard from multiple people who knew the
family and whatnot that Charles was basically a serial adulterer
throughout his his histories with other women and stuff, that
he was basically a serial adulterer, which whatever. He and
Laurie were separated. But I didn't expect one of the
dates to be a witness.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
I like, he, Hi, Nancy, Joe, who are you.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
God?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
But yeah, yeah, I think she she she took the
gold star for for the whole trial. I think what
she was trying to do was put this uh, this
lady in you. You can't trust her because she dates men.
Hello pot calling the kettle black?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Right, Like when she sent the email under the alias Karen,
Remember was it Karen the alias yea Kate Walker, Kate Walker,
Thank you Kate Walker. Yes, Kate Walker, Like I just
lo oh low?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
But wait, wait wait they were already married at the temple, right,
So she really wasn't no, you know, doing the adultery
thing because they were already married, right, spiritual.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And I truly believe she believes that.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yes, And that's the sad part I guess that's the
sad part of this whole thing. She truly believes that
everything that she did was okay.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
That's terrifying. I mean, that's absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Well, I mean, hello, State of the United States right now,
and everybody thinks it's okay.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
You were not kidding, yes, but we're not talking about
or not.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
But that's another podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
It's not going to be this one. And I would
like to have some semblance of a listener base, but
but yeah, I mean, Laurie just what was crazy to
me is during the trial though, especially the first week,
so many people were talking about how well and I
mean I don't know if they're using that term loosely
or what, but how well she was doing. And by
(43:10):
the end of it, you know, I guess my key
points here are that one, she kept asking the same
question over and over again, so every time there was
an objection, she would literally repeat the exact same fucking
sentence and just swap out one or two words one
or two words, and the prosecution quite literally could have
objected a dozen times in a row. Especially when Laurie
(43:33):
would ask someone a question, they would answer it directly,
and then she would have basically ask it again. And
you know, they could have objected to that a dozen
times and been completely valid with that.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Oh yeah. There were several times where the prosecutor was saying,
asked an answer, and even I myself would be like,
ask an answered, glory, go on, next question, please.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Right right. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
She tossed out a couple objections herself for leading, you know, leading,
but those always got shut down because, surprise, surprise, the
questions you know, from the prosecution weren't leading. She completely
missed chances to object to actual leading questions. Oh my god,
so many because she's she shouldn't have been representing herself
to begin with, Like, if you're going to play the
(44:21):
court room game, Larie, play the fucking game. Once the
prosecution stopped giving her grace and started hitting her with objections,
because I do feel like they gave her a little
bit of grace in the beginning, they still work, yeah,
and they knew that they could get away with it,
and you know, she should have been doing the exact
same thing. And I mean, it wasn't It wouldn't have
been game changing, but at least it was basic strategy.
(44:42):
In my opinion. She proved exactly why representing yourself in
court is a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea. She
kept asking stuff that was, you know, hearsay the judge.
I can't even fucking remember how many times would be like,
you're not here to make speeches as actual questions.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yes, you can't testify.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yes, I mean, Laura Valo is not dumb. She's smart,
she's calculating, she's manipulative, she's actually articulate. But her ego
was seriously trying to write checks that her courtroom skills
could not cash. Because it's just it's delusion. I guess
my key word of this entire trial was is delusion.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Agree with you? But she just didn't have the skills.
But and you know, they stay the person that decides
to represent themselves as a fool for a client. And
that was the literal meaning of that cliche. Yep, was
this trial.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
It's true. Well and something that you I'd have no
idea how but and I I don't watch the pundits,
and I don't watch the people on court TV or
YouTubers or you know, anything like that. Is She's going
on trial again in June in the beginning of June
for conspiring to kill Brandon Boudreau.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yes, And what's interesting is that she decided not to
go through a sentence hearing until after that trial.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Which is so interesting because she's going to get life
in prison regardless. So why do you think that is.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
I don't know. I think maybe she thinks I don't
maybe she thinks that she still can be vindicated. I
don't know. It seems like time means nothing to her.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I mean, she has plenty of it now.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
True, she has plenty of it now, But it's like
the concept of you're going to be spending the rest
of your life in jail, Thorie, It's kind of like
that concept just doesn't make sense in her brain. Yeah,
So therefore it's not something that she gives thought to.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, I mean makes sense. But I'm really excited. I'm
I am excited for that trial because, honestly, one of
the biggest questions in my mind is how much did
Melanie now Pulowski. How much did she know of all
of this? For some reason, I just again my opinion,
I believe that she knew almost everything.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
I think so too, my opinion. You know, allegedly she
knew everything that was going to be happening, everything that
did happen, and when she had a little fit because
she wanted to go to the wedding but couldn't because
she had a cover for LORI.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yep, she knew, she knew what was going to go down.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I think that's why she was saying no, no, no, no,
I got to go to this wedding because she did
not want any part of it, but yet there she was.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
And I'm really excited for this. So definitely, you and
I will probably be watching that trial because I have
a feel like we're going to learn a lot of
new stuff. I just I feel like we are.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
I think so. I think so too, especially with Brandon
and Melanie. I expect the other Melanie is also going
to be getting on the stand.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yes, which, oh my god, Melanie gaes chicken grapes walking
through the vineyard. I will never forget it. But I'm
excited for that. I'm excited for that trial. And I
watched some clips of the press conferences after the verdict
came back, and my favorite is Charles Valo's younger brother,
(48:32):
how he came out and he's like, they got the
bitch again.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yep, they got her, introduced yourself.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
They got the bitch again. I mean, fair fair, they
certainly do fair enough, fair enough. I am excited.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
I am too, and we will be here for that
one too, folks, We.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Will be That's what I think I'm primarily excited about now. Well, Iris,
thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Oh it was great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And everyone knows that my other favorite trial right now
that I'm obsessed with is the Karen Reid trial, which
as of today, Tuesday the twenty second, we had our
opening statements and I was reading through the news and whatnot,
and people are already getting arrested outside of the Karen
Reid trial. So yeah, there's the buffer zone. There's one
(49:25):
man that got arrested because they have a buffer zone
because apparently it's hot and pop in the free Karen
Reid movement. All of that, people are fighting arguing like
it is crazy. That being said, Iris and I are
going to be covering it together and this trial is
going to go on for a while, y'all. I know
the Lori valowim was pretty short, and you know, we
came in at the end, but we are going to
(49:45):
be recording next weekend the state, so that would give
us probably two weeks of trial. And yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
I am too. This is going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I'm really excited for your perspective on the physical evidence,
like of John O'Keeffe's arm that is so controversial. You know,
people are saying it was dog wounds or he was beaten,
or then the other side says that he was hit
by a car. So Iris, what is your background in.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Again, Well, I was an autopsy technician for the Medical
Examiner's office for a while. So this is gonna be fun.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yes, excited to have Iris back. Thanks y'all again for listening.
Until next Crime
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
(00:22):
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and arm.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Chair sleuths obsessed.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Be forewarned, dear listener, We Saw the Devil is not
for the faint of heart. Our unflinching exploration will take
you to the darkest corners of the psyche, and through
the unimaginable depths of human darkness, to unearthed stark secrets,
to the harsh light of day. Nothing will be left untouched.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Are you ready? Are you sure? We Saw the Devil?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Everyone, you're listening to We Saw the Devil. This is
Robin and Special Guests tonight, guys. I know that we
said that we were going to cover the trial as
it was happening, but a very special guest kind of
came down with the plague, and so we then decided
to cover the full trial at the end. We've been
waiting on the verdict and it is here, so welcome Iris.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Hello everyone. I am so glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's been a while, it has everyone loves you, Iris.
Every time you come on, everyone messages they just want
to hear more of you.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Oh, thank you, And you're my Valo buddy.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
True God, we've been talking about Lori Valos for I mean,
I've known you basically half of my life at this point,
but we've been talking.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
God.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Sorry, that hit really hard. God, And I just started
wearing glasses this week too, so cool. But we've been covered.
We've been talking about Valo since Nate Eaton was stalking
her on a beach, you know. So I'm really excited.
I feel like we're one step closer to this chapter being.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Closed, almost just one trial away, one.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Trial away, which you informed me of not long ago
this evening. So let's talk about Valo. How does it
feel like have you been keeping up with the random
small updates and pre trial stuff as well before this
one or did you kind of take a break after
the Lori Chad trials.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Well, I did take a break until the dateline interview.
I was very surprised that she actually was going to
give an interview first of all, and that they would
let her. But then I remembered, Laurie is not an Idaho.
Laurie is in Arizona, which is very different on how
they news things. So I walked it and it was
(02:59):
very and informative. She decided to talk about you know,
little anecdotes instead of answering questions, which was irritating as hell.
I ended up just turning it off because she wasn't
really saying anything, so, you know, typical LORI going circles.
And then of course I saw that jury selection was happening,
and I was my little heart went pitter patter, you know,
(03:24):
because finally we were moving ahead. And I did watch
from some of the jury selection all the way till
today and we had our verdict.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
We did guilty. And it didn't take very long either.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Three hours is what they deliberated. Three hours.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Craziness. I mean, I'm not surprised, No, well.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
I'm kind of a little surprised, being that it's Arizona, right,
and Arizona is stand your ground type of law there
for self defense. And they were interviewing jury and stuff,
and Anee Eaton said that one of the jurors said
that in his mind, she was not guilty. Really yes,
(04:09):
until the prosecutor when they did their closing statement and
pulled everything together for him, that's when he goes, ah,
this bitch is guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
That closing statement was masterful. And for those of you
who are unaware, the closing statement by Trina Cray or
Trina Kay was an hour and forty five minutes long.
This bitch busted out the PowerPoint presentation clips of people.
I mean, she just tied it all up with a bow.
I mean, it was just incredible.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
It was pretty incredible, and I really enjoyed how she
did that. She basically reminded everyone, here are the facts.
Here's what it sounded like. Now it's your turn to
figure it out. Is she guilty or not.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Arizona, like you just said, is a standard ground state,
and it has a heavy sentiment with that support. And
so I mean, Trina Kay just put it on the line.
She was like, executing a man who was laying on
the ground is not self defense according to Arizona law. Boom,
that's it. That's it, you know what I mean. And
then the facts in terms that we'll talk about in
(05:21):
a moment, you know, with Charles and the death and
what exactly happened there transpired in that hallway. I mean
that was pretty cut and dry, like she made that
so cut and dry.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It was, and I think the whole time everything was
very cut and dry. It was very precise. There was
no you know, they didn't try to pretty it up,
they didn't try to doll it up. The witnesses came in,
they made their statements again concise, you know, very very
well put. And then you know, we have the lower
(05:50):
East Side, and oh my god, I think had she
had a competent lawyer who could give a well thought
out closing statement without getting you know, sustained for you know,
for every objection, you know, she might add a chance.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And let's cover that really quickly.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Well.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Actually, first of all, a lot of people I've seen everywhere,
even friends, have said, why is Laurie even having another trial.
She's already got life in prison in Idaho. Idahos handling
of what happened and transpired went down in Idaho. So
Arizona is now stepping up for the crimes that happened
on their turf. And that's how the justice system works.
(06:40):
Each state has a responsibility to go after justice for
its own people. So if Arizona just shrugged and said, well,
she's already locked up for life, that's basically telling the
victims' families in their own state that their life and
justice doesn't matter. That's what happens in the United States.
No matter every single defendant, no matter how fucked up
(07:00):
they are, everyone has a right to trial for every
single thing they are charged. They are charged with. If
Lori Valo is facing something new, she gets hit her
day in court, which we're about to apparently see in
June with the Brandon Boudreau as well. Yes, that is
called due process.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
That is why we saw Lori in the Arizona trial.
And to your recent point, and I'm kind of jumping
around here, sustained and overruled. I have never in any
trial in my entire life heard that uttered so many times.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Or even in a closing statement. Yes, I didn't know
you could do that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Oh man.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I was on the road from from my granddaughters from
my daughter's place down back to my house on the freeway,
listening to closing statements, and when that happened, Seriously, I
almost kind of weaved around and was like wait, what
you can object closing state what? But apparently you can't
(08:05):
because she was she was what was she doing with
she was? She was presenting testimony and hearsay, and you
can't do that at all, And apparently you can't do
it on closing statements either.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So we heard a lot of sustained in this trial.
And for those of you who are unaware, you had
to basically get familiar with two terms very quickly in
court if you're not a court junkie, if you don't
watch a lot of trials, and that would be sustained.
And when a judge says objections sustained, it means that
(08:37):
they agree with the objecting attorney that the question, you know,
line of thinking evidence is inadmissible under the rules of evidence. Right,
So that could be because the question is leading, it's speculative,
it's irrelevant, or for whatever reason, or we've heard a
lot of that exactly, And we heard a lot of
that a lot. Yes, Actually the testimony one, especially the testimonies.
(09:03):
I mean I was actually starting to get pretty irritated
by it, to be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
It was and there were times that I was listening
to this and it was like ask the question in
a different way, Laurie, damn it, just ask it in
a different way.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I have never armchair attorneyed so hard in my entire life.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think everybody was, though.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
It was kind of like, oh so, I don't know,
please go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
What I was gonna say? It was just in a
way I understand why she wanted to do this herself.
But then in another way, I'm like, what the fuck
are you thinking?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well, why do you think she wanted to I've heard
so many theories about, you know, her just basically wanting
to crassly put fuck with the people who caused all
of this, right Kay and the rest of them. I've
heard that she wants to clear her name, you know,
before she goes to Glory or one of her you know,
through the portal. Like, why do you think she decided
(10:06):
to do it?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I believe she feels betrayed by her prior presentation in
Idaho because they brought Chad into the mix and she
told him absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
No, Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
But not understanding really the law. There is no way
that that would have happened in the first place, because
Chad was not involved in that conspiracy. Yep. So had
she had a competent lawyer, she very well could have
gotten acquitted.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I believe that had she gotten another attorney, like an
actual legitimate, competent attorney, that the result would probably come
back the same. But it would have taken a lot
longer than just three hours to deliberate.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You're probably right, it would have taken a lot longer.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
But oh, it was absolutely painful.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
It was, and I think myself, if I would have
been her attorney, the number one question I would have
asked every single detective would be, so when did you
decide to start investigation on this as a murderer? And
then my next question would be was it before or
(11:26):
after prosecutor woulds came into town? Because yes, yes, that
would have been the point right there, that would have
been it. So the police department in Arizona that should
have investigated this pretty much dropped the ball everywhere. So
a competent lawyer would have been able to say, Laurie
(11:48):
went home, Alex Cox went home, Tyler went home. You
did not give them further instructions, Just like Lurie said
in her closing statement, you did not tell them don't
leave you didn't say any of that, and all of
a sudden, you prosecutor would from Minoh comes in, talks
to your department, and all of a sudden, you're going
(12:08):
to open up this case. You were incompetent enough. There
was nothing that was telling you that you needed to
prosecute this. And all of a sudden they had a
new case manager because they had dropped this.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And not only that, but remember they let after the
shooting and police came to the scene, they let LORII
have Charles's phone and keep it.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, after they had investigated. Yeah, yeah, she had his
phone when she left for forty seven minutes and all
of the texts that had sent had been read, which
is why Adam was trying to figure out why Charles
hadn't responded to any of his texts.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yep, because Adam was going to be there for an intervention.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yes, they were going to have an intervention. Now. They
took LRII, Tylee, and Alex to the police. You back
to the the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
State tandlor Chandler, Chandler Police Department.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Thank you so. Chandler Police Department took Alex in the
squad car, and Tylee and Laurie were also taken and
they were being treated as victims because they went to
the victim advocates side of the building for questioning and
all that. Not until then she was she was questioning everything.
(13:28):
They took them back to the house after the warren
had been served and they had searched through there, taken
the body out, and then said, hey, we're missing the phone,
and Larry goes, oh, wait, it's in the I forgot
it's right there in the I think it's one of
the cup holders in the car. So the bitch had
that the whole time. And who knows what got erased?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Right, So.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I don't know if the cloud can tell if some
thing's been deleted. Maybe it can tell it was deleted,
but it can't bring it back, so who knows. But
there you go.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's wild.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I think that's a really good perspective though, that has
she had a competent attorney, that would have been a
great line of questioning for sure. And I just you know,
the opening statement. We'll talk about opening statements as well.
And now this episode is obviously under the assumption that
if you're listening to this, you know exactly what happened. Yes,
(14:29):
Charles Vallo was killed by Alex Cox. They basically staged
a murder, right to try to make it look like
Charles Valo was attacking everyone and the kids were there
and all of this. And so Alex is obviously not
in this trial because he died while shodoodling himself on
the toilet. True conveniently, right, coming into this trial, Laurie
(14:55):
was already convicted in Idaho for the murders of Tylie
and JJ and also for her in the death of
Tammy day Bell, Chad Day Bell's first wife. Right, so
she's already received multiple life terms of multiple terms of
life in prison without parole. And you know, Chad Day
Bell is basically waiting for death at this point. He
was sentenced to death. So coming into this, you know,
(15:15):
we all have the context of the entire shit show
that is this case, right, Like, Iris, how many hours
have you spent just reading news articles or reading things
on this case?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Hundreds literally hundreds of hours.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It never ends, like there's always something. And remember back
in the beginning where you had Zalima and all of
these other random people who we were all obsessing over
and reading about, and then it turns out they had
like nothing to do with it. Most likely, Yeah, most
most likely. Most likely, we do not know. I mean
I personally think they were likely aware, but that's my
(15:54):
personal opinion. Allegedly so, but yeah, so we came into
this and then you know, the opening statement to me
by Prosecutor k was incredible and it's the same theme
from the first trial, money, sex and power basically, right,
So they said, you know, this is alleged spirits conspiracy
between Lourie and Alex Cox to murder Charles Valo. The
(16:17):
motive is that Laurie wanted Charles's life insurance policy and
social security. I mean, she just laid it out. And
then what I found really interesting about this one is
that she really knocked it home and brought up the
spirit named Ned, that Charles was possessed by his spirit
named Ned, and that she tried to cast it.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Out, and she brought witnesses to say.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
That isn't wasn't that wild?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It was? And they kind of brought the religious aspect
of this into the trial, but not the way they
did in Idaho. Yes, correct, And I think the reason
why they did it that way in Idaho it's because
they had they had a Mormon audience here, they had
to explain who Nephi was. They had to explain some
(17:06):
of the aspects of the Mormon religion. Yep. They had
to bring in religion and they had to explain it.
But it wasn't done in any crassway, I guess, kind
of trying to make it it all about religion instead
of these two just wanted the money, I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And ultimately I think that's you know what it was,
especially when she brought on her friend Christina Attwood and
she testified, you know, about Lourie and said that Laurie
again claimed that Charles was possessed by dark spirits as
she talked about casting them out. She witnessed Laurie praying
for Charles over that, and then also Laurie admitted to
(17:47):
crushing up JJ's meds in Charles's dreams and Laurie was like, yeah,
that was just a joke.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But was it, bitch?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
But was it?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And Christina, I think, you know, was trying to cover
her ass and said, well, I warrant Lourie and told
her that I'd go to police if anything happens mmmm
mm hmm and did you did you no? And then
she also said that she heard Alex Cox say that
he wanted to kill Charles back in late twenty nineteen.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Right, So all of this which brings me back to again,
if there had been a competent lawyer on this, when
the female detective was interviewing Laurie and Laurie had her
you know, she was questioning her as a witness, a
(18:39):
competent lawyer would have said, so you knew then that
Laurie had been called in to Chandler police for a
psyche bell and she wouldn't have She wouldn't be able
to say yes or no because they didn't. They didn't
even check up on her because in their mind, they
had already made up their mind that she was a victim,
which means that it was slow, loppy police work. And
(19:02):
I think one of the reasons why these guys were
with the Jenner Police Department was going after Laurie was
to vindicate itself so they wouldn't look like a bunch
of Keystone cops mm hmmm because of this, And they
probably didn't want Kay Woodcock, the wood you know, the Woodcocks,
to come after them, you know, with a lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, I mean, I don't blame I mean that was
the shoddiest police work I have seen in a while.
I mean, they just didn't really even try or care.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
They didn't. It was connect with Gabby, you know, the
the cop, Yeah right, the fucking cop chuckling with Brian.
You know, I got one of those at won't do God.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think the police are probably so jaded from what
they see and witness on a daily basis. They just
make assumptions and they get jaded, you know. And it
doesn't make it right whatsoever for the.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Police department to bring Laurie in and have her or
not ask her the right questions the first time.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, when she was just batting her eyes and yahoosy.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Cutte and flirting with the psychologist and flirting with the
cops or like this is a bomb, bimbo, she's not
saying anything. Yeah, And then it comes back to how
manipulative Florie was, how she knew how to play the part,
because that's exactly what she did.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You and I have discussed this on the podcast previously,
and I take a lot of people and I see
it every day still are really pissed that she did
not get the death penalty as well. I will say
it again and I will die on this hill that
I'm glad she didn't get the death penalty because she's
so severely mentally ill. Someone can be you know, quote
unquote evil, right, take from that whatever you you know,
(20:48):
what you may or will, But she's an awful human being.
She is clearly a narcissist. She's clearly susceptible to brainwashing. Right,
she still hasn't been programmed from Chad Dabel's bullshit.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Well, she hasn't been deprogrammed from the religious upbringing that she.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Had exactly exactly starting from the very beginning. And then
you know, Chad just basically took it a little like
offshoot belief so that he'd be king of the mountain.
It was just like, I actually feel sad for her
because if you look at the big picture of it,
it's been claimed, it's never been confirmed that you know,
she was sexually abused by her father, Barry, that's Mary Cox.
(21:30):
That's been put out there repeatedly, that her mother was
vapid and cared only about looks, emotionally cold, no support,
and she was basically doomed by being born into that
family to begin with. All of that, Like, I just
I just see how a human being could be created
and almost a sort of Petrie dish, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Most most definitely And you know a lot of people
will go, oh, well, a poor little rich girl, right, Okay,
sure I can give you that. But just like you
were saying, Laurie was predisposed to all of the weird
and zealotry that Chad Dave Bell had. Yea, And it wasn't.
(22:09):
It wasn't because of Chad day Bell. She was already
involving herself in the prepare of people and prepping and
doing all these things which she was becoming a zealot.
And because she was already in that zealot mind mode,
when Chad day Bell shows up and starts giving her
(22:29):
all these ideas and telling her, you and I were
married already, and you're going to be you know, translated,
and you're going to do this and that, and you're
going to be a goddess. I'm going to be the god,
and we're going to lead the one hundred and forty
four thousand. Listening to all of her Sunday school and
messages at the temple had already told her these things
(22:53):
are going to happen. And then Chad comes in and says, yeah,
these things are going to happen, and you're to be
front and center.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yep, beieve it. I mean, look at the case of
Jim Jones, right, Jim Jones, you know, the infamous kool
Aid dude, or not kool aid, but you know what
I mean, flavor aid, same thing. He had women pining
over him, and he promised them the world as well.
And it's the combination of people and their you know,
a lot of them at least religious upbringing, being predisposed
(23:23):
to it. And then when you're already in her case
of narcissists, and narcissists want to be surrounded by successful
people and powerful people as well. Right, so you take
her narcissism as well.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Well.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
That attaches onto Chad day Bell immediately. You know, the
religious zelotry attaches right on. I mean, it doesn't take
a rocket scientist to see how she ended up this way,
you know. And before people start climbing all over my
ass and sending me messages that I'm sympathizing with a killer,
I'm not sympathizing with her in any capacity. We also
(23:55):
have free will, but I do empathize in terms of
just like that suck, you know what I mean? Like
some people and I've seen it play over and over
and over again. Some people are raised with a shit
end of the stick. Some rise above it and some don't.
And it's unfortunate. And it's sad that two children and
you know, another woman had to die in the process
of that.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, it's extremely sad. But you know, this is how
we we as humans. That's this is how we are, right, Yep,
there's that. It's the cave man mentality where the guy
who beats his chest the hardest and the one everybody
gives attention to, that's the one that's attractive, and that's
the one the women want to falk to because of power.
(24:38):
Please don't come at us because, oh my god, you're
being so misogynistic. No, I am not. I am just
coming to this any sociological mindset. Sociology was my miner
in a group of people, those who need to be
protected or feel they need to be protected, will always
go to the biggest and the loudest person, whether it's
(24:59):
a man or a woman, that's who they're going to
gravitate to. And if you already have narcissistic tendencies, that
is who you're going to gravitate to. So you are
already predisposed to flock to this type of people. And
that's what happened with Laurie. Did she have to do
the things that they did to those children? No, of
(25:20):
course not, and she could at one point said you
know what, this is wrong, completely agree. But we also
have to remember that Laurie, it's very obvious, lives in
a fantasy world. No, that does not apologize or not
make her guilty of what she's done.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
Absolver of hers thank you for the word, you know,
but yeah, you know it does an absolver her of it,
but it does kind of give you a better picture
of why she did the things she did.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
And again, you know some of the people, some of
the men that she married very obviously was you know
the god. I hate saying this, but the alpha male.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's true though, Charles very much.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Before anybody that comes back like, no, no, no, there's
no true. Well, let's look at Adam Cox. Adam Cox
didn't you know, fall for Chad and his bullshit and
it in a way Janie did too.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Well do you think it's because they were located more
in Idaho and wasn't Adam in California, Like Adam never
really was around the family right that much.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
No, not that much. I mean, Adam had his own life, right,
but she knew he knew Charles and they had a rapport.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So you would think as a mom if you find
out that your daughter was cheating on the husband that
was taking very good care of her, very good care,
as a mom would have been bit you better not
fuck this up, that right thing for everything, including our phones.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
For me.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
But yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's a it's
a sad state of affairs.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
But but all of that to be that entire tangent
sorry instigated by me is the fact that I'm glad
that Lauri has life in prison. I think she's incredibly
mentally ill, and I think she's exactly where she belongs
for life.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes, exactly where she belongs.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
And I feel like we've discussed this previously as well,
But I feel like Chad day Bell knows is way
more cognizant and coherent of reality, and I think that
he knows what he did was wrong and fucked up.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
I agree with you one hundred percent. So do you
want to talk about some of the lackluster witnesses. Yes,
the medical examiner being.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
One of Oh god, well, since you have a medical
examine or background, how about you you take that one.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Okay. So the medical examiner gets up there and they're
asking him a very very basic question. First of all,
the man looks like he's preparing himself for colinospopy. He
just does not want to be there. He's irritated and
he's bored and almost offended that he has to be there. Oh,
(28:27):
they're asking him basic questions, what did you see, how
did you do it? What kind of cut did you do?
Did you find this? Did you find that? And he's
like yeah, mmmm, yes, no, this that we found this,
and that he was just he was bothered.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
He was boned, but.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That's a good way to describe it. He was bothered.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And there was nothing bombastic about the autopsy. It was
a very very standard autopsy. They found, you know, the
entry wound, they found the exit wound. They found that
he had a blow to he hit his head, He
had abrasions on his knees, he had abrasions on his hands,
(29:15):
you know, and they was like, well what killed him?
The bullet wounds, you know, and the prosecutor did a
good job, but she also felt like she was just
going through the motions with this m h. I think
it was more of a presentation for the jury of
it wasn't the shirt that that caused the stipling, It was,
(29:37):
you know, the bullet and how close he was. Then
Laurie gets up asks about do you know about bamboo.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And her baby voice, which carries on, like, I think.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Through the whole trial, the questioning of the medical examiner
RECEI the most objections it sustained.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yes, yes, I think the other one was in terms
of like objections, was what Serena Sharp? Yes, when Laurie
was cross examining Serena Sharp, whom, if you recall, was
one of her friends, right, she just opens it and
asks Serena Sharp, is your testimony accountable to God? Like
you can't, okay, And then she tried to get her
(30:27):
to say verbatim verbatim that she used the word quote
zombie and that had multiple That entire shit show had
multiple objections there as well. I mean, my god, yes,
it was just it was awful. I wanted to scream
into the void.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I was like, Glorie, just stop, it's been overrule, just sustained, sustained,
sustain just stop.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
And Laurie kept arguing. She was like, oh, I should
be allowed to question biblical, biblical content to prove you
know that these beliefs are within LDS scope. And she
was trying so hard on the religious front and it
just did not connect.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
No, which again tells you where this chick was coming from.
She was taking a complete I wonder sometimes if she
was taking a complete religious bent to this whole thing.
And I think that's where she's at because in her mind,
in her reality, she doesn't even have to ask for
forgiveness anymore. So anything she does is aokay with God.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
I truly believe that's where she's at mentally.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Completely.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I mean her entire demeanor, right, I mean, a sane,
just well adjusted and adapted person would not be smiling
and laughing through her first trial like she was smiling
and laughing and seems completely fine, annoyed, you know, even
like it was all beneath her. And then this trial
as well, she decides to represent herself and pushed an
(31:54):
entire religious religious aspects by the right.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
And then acts like a little brat when she gets
told you can't do that.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I mean, and the defense was pretty much I would
say that, well, no, I'll take that. I guess like
Laurie is entire of strategy, if you can even say
that she had a strategy, because I don't even know
what that was. The prosecution came and they focused on
digital evidence, you know, religious language, the timelines, the law,
and then they focused on all of that, and Laurie
(32:26):
just is like, I really want her to say zombie.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
You know, yes, I want her to say, zombie. I
want you to explain to me why you didn't test
the bamboo fabric of his church, why you didn't lumine
all the bat why you didn't lumine all the.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Gun and then asking people like quizzing them on their
understanding of Nephi and tried to basically say, well, there
are multiple different profits and you need to, you know,
what is your understanding of that, And she also tried
to say that well, actually, you know, her kind of
(33:11):
allegation of bias and the investigation not being complete. For
a split second there I was thinking, Okay, wow, maybe
she's going barking up the right tree and she's gonna
come about this, and no, no, it didn't go anywhere
at all. When when bamboo shirt.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yea bamboo shirt, right, it was like, yes, okay, go
go down this road, go down this road. And then
that I didn't want her to be found not guilty,
but at least you know, I could say, Okay, she's
cognizant enough to know this is the right road to
go down.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Right, right, I mean, and honestly, I it's why I
have a degree in political science and why I got
into law school, right is because I love politics. Politics
itself is a game on the national stage, and then
also the courtroom. I love courtroom drama too. Write it
is a game. And my jaw almost hit the floor.
(34:13):
Do you remember when Lourie I think it was Duncan,
I forgot who it was. She basically just emphasized, well,
my family and I we were all very cooperative with you,
and we came in and we offered everything, and it's
not my fault that law enforcement didn't investigate more thoroughly.
I was like, oh, imagine, imagine being told that by
(34:35):
Laurie Valo of all people.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Oh my god, how embarrassing. But she had a point,
and I was hoping when she said that it was like, yes, no,
keep going down this road. Ask them, did you start
to since investigation after A G. Woods came to town?
Is that when you started it? But no, no, she
(35:00):
did not. I was like last opportunity.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I mean, I obviously wanted her to be found guilty,
and I'm very happy for you know, Charles's family, friends
and loved ones. I'm astatic for them, and I'm happy
with outcome. But oh my god, it would have made
it so much more interesting if Lori Valo had come
in like Elle Woods.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
On that.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
And at least put up some sort of fight. We
all expected too much.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yes, I guess we did. I guess we did. There
was no fight. And even the Brandon Boudreau trial that's
coming up, they're not expecting more than two to three
weeks on that. So that tells you something.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Will we see Melanie in that trial?
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah, Melanie's gonna have to be there.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
She has to be. Honestly, I was reading on why
they didn't pull like Melanie or Lemma or anyone for
this trial. And if any of you listeners know or
have a better reading or reason or understanding, because I
know that a couple attorneys do listen to the show.
I read that it was because they didn't want to
bring a lot of witnesses from the Idaho case so
that there couldn't be like a mistrial or something was
(36:06):
divulged that couldn't be.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
No, very very true. The jury did not know about
the Idaho trial.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Uh huh, yup.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
So if any of that was divulged and they find
out that she was already guilty of conspiracy for murder
with Tyleee, Tammy and JJ and of course two children,
I mean, bitch, would have been no. Within fifteen minutes,
I had to come back says no, she's she's guilty.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
So it couldn't be tainted. You were going to be
tainting the jury with those possible jurys. It wouldn't have
been the prosecutor. It would have been Laurie that would
have tainted the jury. She would have said something, and then,
of course, because the jury could ask questions right there
and then, which is which baffled me. But then I
(36:57):
was like, well that's kind of cool. Yeah, that would
have opened up in New Canel worms and then it
would have been a mistrial.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, I completely agree, completely agree. It's just she did
not do well at all. And I know a lot
of people were, you know, hoping for different, but it
just did not. Her entire game was supposed to be
planting the seed of a reasonable doubt, right, That's all
that she had to do, was just plant the seed
of reasonable doubt. That's why she, I guess, kept dragging
(37:25):
Tilely into it, right, couldn't really defend herself. So Laurie's
out here painting like she was the one with the
real problems, that her relationship with Charles was problematic, and
that she and Charles didn't get along, and she's the
one that brought the bat into the situation. And I
feel like that was her trying to plant the seed
of well, maybe we don't know exactly how Charles died,
Like maybe Charles was actually attacking Tiley, you know, if
(37:48):
they had that history and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
It is And not only was she trying to bring
Tiny into the event that happened, but then turned her
into a victim of when she asked, I think it
was Detective Duncan about well, you know, did you let
us go? I told you that my daughter Tyley needed
(38:12):
her anxiety pills, but you guys wouldn't let us go.
Get them. Why was that, you know? And these questions.
So I wonder if the jury also got that where
she was flip flopping rolls, because first Alex Alex was
a protector, and then he was the victim, and then
Tyley was the protector, and then she was the victim
(38:32):
and Laurie was the instigator. But then she tried to
make herself the victim and she did that with Nancy
Joe and I am sorry, but Nancy Joe, what was
she also a woodcock?
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Hancock?
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Hancock? Okay, so many cocks.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I know, so many cocks, Beavis and but head there.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
So even Nancy Joe Hancock was like, don't flatter yourself, darling.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I'm gonna play the clip now.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
By the way, please, So are you trying to tell
me and this jury that you went on one date
with my husband and he told you all the details
of our lives. I'm telling you the truth and that's
what I know. So you just make your whole date
getting to know each other talking about me. Don't flatter yourself. No,
(39:33):
we did not spend the whole time talking about you.
You talked you knew a lot about me, right.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
I knew what I've testified to that is my favorite
part of this whole try.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
I've been saying it every day all the time. Someone
from work will be like, hey, how's it going, and
I will just randomly say, don't flatter yourself, no contact,
no relevance, no nothing, still flatter yourself. I just my
favorite part of the entire trial.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
It was a great comeback because, you know, Laurie is like, well,
do you make it?
Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, do you date married men?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Habit dating married man? And She's like, he said he
wasn't and he said he was separated, blah blah blah,
this and that, and Laurie's like remember and she's like, yeah,
don't let.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Did you guys talk about me on your date? And
don't flatter yourself? I mean it was seamless, right, seamless, seamless.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I was like, yes, who But okay, So was that
a surprise? Was that a surprise for you that Charles
Vallow was dating people?
Speaker 2 (40:43):
Not really?
Speaker 3 (40:44):
No?
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I mean he was a good looking dude for his
age and you know, separated from Laurie, So it didn't
surprise me, and it did surprise you, It.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Did a little, But I was stupid surprised that one
of those people was going to be a witness, right, Okay, Yeah,
that that did surprise me.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
You know, I've heard from multiple people who knew the
family and whatnot that Charles was basically a serial adulterer
throughout his his histories with other women and stuff, that
he was basically a serial adulterer, which whatever. He and
Laurie were separated. But I didn't expect one of the
dates to be a witness.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
I like, he, Hi, Nancy, Joe, who are you.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
God?
Speaker 3 (41:25):
But yeah, yeah, I think she she she took the
gold star for for the whole trial. I think what
she was trying to do was put this uh, this
lady in you. You can't trust her because she dates men.
Hello pot calling the kettle black?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Right, Like when she sent the email under the alias Karen,
Remember was it Karen the alias yea Kate Walker, Kate Walker,
Thank you Kate Walker. Yes, Kate Walker, Like I just
lo oh low?
Speaker 3 (42:01):
But wait, wait wait they were already married at the temple, right,
So she really wasn't no, you know, doing the adultery
thing because they were already married, right, spiritual.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
And I truly believe she believes that.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yes, And that's the sad part I guess that's the
sad part of this whole thing. She truly believes that
everything that she did was okay.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
That's terrifying. I mean, that's absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Well, I mean, hello, State of the United States right now,
and everybody thinks it's okay.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
You were not kidding, yes, but we're not talking about
or not.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
But that's another podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
It's not going to be this one. And I would
like to have some semblance of a listener base, but
but yeah, I mean, Laurie just what was crazy to
me is during the trial though, especially the first week,
so many people were talking about how well and I
mean I don't know if they're using that term loosely
or what, but how well she was doing. And by
(43:10):
the end of it, you know, I guess my key
points here are that one, she kept asking the same
question over and over again, so every time there was
an objection, she would literally repeat the exact same fucking
sentence and just swap out one or two words one
or two words, and the prosecution quite literally could have
objected a dozen times in a row. Especially when Laurie
(43:33):
would ask someone a question, they would answer it directly,
and then she would have basically ask it again. And
you know, they could have objected to that a dozen
times and been completely valid with that.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Oh yeah. There were several times where the prosecutor was saying,
asked an answer, and even I myself would be like,
ask an answered, glory, go on, next question, please.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Right right. It was ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
She tossed out a couple objections herself for leading, you know, leading,
but those always got shut down because, surprise, surprise, the
questions you know, from the prosecution weren't leading. She completely
missed chances to object to actual leading questions. Oh my god,
so many because she's she shouldn't have been representing herself
to begin with, Like, if you're going to play the
(44:21):
court room game, Larie, play the fucking game. Once the
prosecution stopped giving her grace and started hitting her with objections,
because I do feel like they gave her a little
bit of grace in the beginning, they still work, yeah,
and they knew that they could get away with it,
and you know, she should have been doing the exact
same thing. And I mean, it wasn't It wouldn't have
been game changing, but at least it was basic strategy.
(44:42):
In my opinion. She proved exactly why representing yourself in
court is a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea. She
kept asking stuff that was, you know, hearsay the judge.
I can't even fucking remember how many times would be like,
you're not here to make speeches as actual questions.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yes, you can't testify.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yes, I mean, Laura Valo is not dumb. She's smart,
she's calculating, she's manipulative, she's actually articulate. But her ego
was seriously trying to write checks that her courtroom skills
could not cash. Because it's just it's delusion. I guess
my key word of this entire trial was is delusion.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
Agree with you? But she just didn't have the skills.
But and you know, they stay the person that decides
to represent themselves as a fool for a client. And
that was the literal meaning of that cliche. Yep, was
this trial.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
It's true. Well and something that you I'd have no
idea how but and I I don't watch the pundits,
and I don't watch the people on court TV or
YouTubers or you know, anything like that. Is She's going
on trial again in June in the beginning of June
for conspiring to kill Brandon Boudreau.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yes, And what's interesting is that she decided not to
go through a sentence hearing until after that trial.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Which is so interesting because she's going to get life
in prison regardless. So why do you think that is.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
I don't know. I think maybe she thinks I don't
maybe she thinks that she still can be vindicated. I
don't know. It seems like time means nothing to her.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I mean, she has plenty of it now.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
True, she has plenty of it now, But it's like
the concept of you're going to be spending the rest
of your life in jail, Thorie, It's kind of like
that concept just doesn't make sense in her brain. Yeah,
So therefore it's not something that she gives thought to.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Yeah, I mean makes sense. But I'm really excited. I'm
I am excited for that trial because, honestly, one of
the biggest questions in my mind is how much did
Melanie now Pulowski. How much did she know of all
of this? For some reason, I just again my opinion,
I believe that she knew almost everything.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
I think so too, my opinion. You know, allegedly she
knew everything that was going to be happening, everything that
did happen, and when she had a little fit because
she wanted to go to the wedding but couldn't because
she had a cover for LORI.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yep, she knew, she knew what was going to go down.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
I think that's why she was saying no, no, no, no,
I got to go to this wedding because she did
not want any part of it, but yet there she was.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
And I'm really excited for this. So definitely, you and
I will probably be watching that trial because I have
a feel like we're going to learn a lot of
new stuff. I just I feel like we are.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
I think so. I think so too, especially with Brandon
and Melanie. I expect the other Melanie is also going
to be getting on the stand.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yes, which, oh my god, Melanie gaes chicken grapes walking
through the vineyard. I will never forget it. But I'm
excited for that. I'm excited for that trial. And I
watched some clips of the press conferences after the verdict
came back, and my favorite is Charles Valo's younger brother,
(48:32):
how he came out and he's like, they got the
bitch again.
Speaker 3 (48:36):
Yep, they got her, introduced yourself.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
They got the bitch again. I mean, fair fair, they
certainly do fair enough, fair enough. I am excited.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
I am too, and we will be here for that
one too, folks, We.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Will be That's what I think I'm primarily excited about now. Well, Iris,
thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Oh it was great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And everyone knows that my other favorite trial right now
that I'm obsessed with is the Karen Reid trial, which
as of today, Tuesday the twenty second, we had our
opening statements and I was reading through the news and whatnot,
and people are already getting arrested outside of the Karen
Reid trial. So yeah, there's the buffer zone. There's one
(49:25):
man that got arrested because they have a buffer zone
because apparently it's hot and pop in the free Karen
Reid movement. All of that, people are fighting arguing like
it is crazy. That being said, Iris and I are
going to be covering it together and this trial is
going to go on for a while, y'all. I know
the Lori valowim was pretty short, and you know, we
came in at the end, but we are going to
(49:45):
be recording next weekend the state, so that would give
us probably two weeks of trial. And yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
I am too. This is going to be fun.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I'm really excited for your perspective on the physical evidence,
like of John O'Keeffe's arm that is so controversial. You know,
people are saying it was dog wounds or he was beaten,
or then the other side says that he was hit
by a car. So Iris, what is your background in.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
Again, Well, I was an autopsy technician for the Medical
Examiner's office for a while. So this is gonna be fun.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yes, excited to have Iris back. Thanks y'all again for listening.
Until next Crime
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