October 4, 2025 • 44 mins
What happened after the internet's most documented person got arrested for one of the most disturbing allegations imaginable? This deep-dive covers everything from the July 2021 incest call leak that broke the internet, to the livestreamed arrest that got 3,000 viewers, to 19 months behind bars, and the wild journey that followed.
The sketchy Discord manipulators, the Watchmen "protectors," the psychiatric hospital stay, and how Chris walked free through Virginia's autism deferred disposition program. Enter Flutter, the mystery girlfriend, multiple trips to Finland, and Chris somehow becoming a landlord's tenant while still selling Sonichu merch.
Fair warning: this gets dark.
Keywords: Chris Chan, Christine Chandler, internet culture, true crime podcast, Kiwi Farms, viral arrest, Sonichu, lolcow documentary, online harassment, CWCki, internet history, 2021 arrest, controversial podcast, deep dive Content Warning:
NEW SHOW ALERT: Tune in Sunday for the premiere of Red, White & Bruised - my new podcast tackling America's slide into fascism and what we can actually do about it. First episode drops this weekend.
------------
Website: http://www.wesawthedevil.com
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/wesawthedevil
Discord: https://discord.gg/X2qYXdB4
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/WeSawtheDevil
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/wesawthedevilpodcast.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/we-saw-the-devil-a-true-crime-podcast--4433638/support.
Website: http://www.wesawthedevil.com
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/wesawthedevil
Discord: https://discord.gg/X2qYXdB4
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/WeSawtheDevil
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/wesawthedevilpodcast.
The sketchy Discord manipulators, the Watchmen "protectors," the psychiatric hospital stay, and how Chris walked free through Virginia's autism deferred disposition program. Enter Flutter, the mystery girlfriend, multiple trips to Finland, and Chris somehow becoming a landlord's tenant while still selling Sonichu merch.
Fair warning: this gets dark.
Keywords: Chris Chan, Christine Chandler, internet culture, true crime podcast, Kiwi Farms, viral arrest, Sonichu, lolcow documentary, online harassment, CWCki, internet history, 2021 arrest, controversial podcast, deep dive Content Warning:
NEW SHOW ALERT: Tune in Sunday for the premiere of Red, White & Bruised - my new podcast tackling America's slide into fascism and what we can actually do about it. First episode drops this weekend.
------------
Website: http://www.wesawthedevil.com
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/wesawthedevil
Discord: https://discord.gg/X2qYXdB4
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/WeSawtheDevil
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/wesawthedevilpodcast.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/we-saw-the-devil-a-true-crime-podcast--4433638/support.
Website: http://www.wesawthedevil.com
Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/wesawthedevil
Discord: https://discord.gg/X2qYXdB4
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/WeSawtheDevil
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/wesawthedevilpodcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and armchair sleuth's obsessed. Be forewarned, Dear listener, We Saw
the Devil is not for the faint of heart. Our
unflinching exploration will take you to the darkest corners of
(00:41):
the psyche, and through the unimaginable depths of human darkness,
to unearthed stark secrets, to the harsh light of day.
Nothing will be left untouched. Are you ready? Are you sure?
We Saw the Devil?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hello, very one, you are listening to We Saw the Devil.
This is Robyn and I am here with episode twenty two.
If you guys really think about it, I've spent hundreds
of hours of my life writing this episode and discussing
Chris chan and I don't know what that says about
me as a person. I don't think I want to
know but alas we are here, we are just one
(01:21):
episode away after this one, guys, and we are fully
up to date until October of twenty twenty five. But
before we get into that, a couple things. How are
all of you? It has been an abysmal week for
most of us. I'm pretty sure across the board, I
know that I am ready for the weekend and I
am not going to do a damn thing. If you
(01:43):
need me, I will be eating snacks in my internest
and watching horror movies. I also did put out a
secondary series on this channel called Red White and Bruised Again.
I just I'm so disgusted with where everything is right now.
At the first episode was titled F is for Fascism.
I don't know if any of you guys listen to
(02:03):
that episode, but after the week we just had you, guys,
I am going to be coming in hot so preparation
for any of you who listen to both. But this
is terrifying. This week was beyond comprehension. So look forward
to an episode there on Sunday. I can't even you know,
it's Friday. As of right now, I can't even imagine.
(02:25):
It just seems like what's that saying what kind of
fresh hell is the Today bringing? And I feel that
every single time I wake up, So expect a new
episode of Red, White, and Bruised on Sunday, and yeah,
only one more Chris Chan episode. Beyond that, guys, I
have a website framework up officially, so it is not
like the old site. It is not finessed and beautiful
(02:49):
and all of that, but I at least got a
space up that I can work on. So we saw
the deevil dot com is a thing. Feel free to go.
Like I said, it's very bare bones, doesn't even have
a but it does have a contact us section and
you can subscribe to the newsletter. Beyond that, don't forget
to follow the site where I primarily post updates. That
would be Instagram, which is We Saw the Double podcast,
(03:12):
Facebook and Twitter which is We Saw the Devil. And
then you can also follow me personally if you want.
Robin Underscore WSTD. But I guess that's all the housekeeping,
so let's just go ahead and get into it. On
July thirtieth, twenty twenty one, the Internet exploded with one
of the most disturbing revelations in the history of online documentation.
(03:34):
After fourteen years of being observed, trolled, and chronicled, Christine
Weston Chandler, known online as Chris Chan, would face allegations
that crossed every conceivable line. And this episode is the
story of what happened from arrest to incarceration, from a
mysterious release to international travel, and we will be covering
(03:56):
twenty twenty one to twenty twenty five in this This
is the beginning of the final chapter. To understand how
we arrived at the events of July of twenty twenty one,
we need to rewind to September twenty twenty A group
of teenagers from Guchland High School in Virginia, calling themselves Prader,
approached Chris with a business proposal, led by Caiden Peck,
(04:19):
who was eighteen at the time, Prater wanted to manufacture
and sell SONACHIU medallions. If you guys recall Chris had
tried to do this in the past, but he just
wasn't terribly terribly successful. The core members of Prater were Caden,
Owen and Annabelle. They met with Chris at fourteen Branchlin
(04:40):
Court and pitched their idea use a mold press to
create the medallions, sell them online and give Chris a
royalty cut. By December of twenty twenty, their Etsy shop
Official cw C Mart launched, like Official Quickmart. The medallions
they produced were ironically notably poor quality, even worse than
(05:02):
Chris's own handmade versions. Reviews complained about wet paint and
even hair her stuck to the surfaces of them, but
they sold, and they would continue to sell. Prater commissioned
an animator to create promotional content for their shop. It
was a flashy intro video featuring Chris and Sonachu characters.
(05:23):
That animator was a Texas Tech University student named Isabella
Loretta Jenkie, though she went by many aliases online, including Bella,
Kelly Osborne, and dozens of others. After Bella completed the
animation in November of twenty twenty, Chris reached out to
her independently. What began as a casual conversation would evolve
(05:45):
into something much darker and who is Bella well? According
to late information, she was born around the early two thousands,
making her roughly twenty twenty one years old. In twenty
twenty one, she described herself as a ute, lonely four
chan dweller and had a history of trolling and manipulation.
(06:06):
Her background was also notably unusual. Her father was a
cybersecurity expert and former Navy seal. Her mother had worked
as a psychologist for the CIA and was currently a therapist.
Despite or perhaps because of, this background, Bella exhibited what
many observers identified as signs of severe personality disorders. From
(06:30):
fall of twenty twenty through July of twenty twenty one,
Bella cultivated a friendship with Chris. She was patient, she
was encouraging, She played along with Chris's delusions about the
dimensional merge, and behind the scenes, she talked shit about
him and bragged about her access. In discord messages from
July nineteenth, twenty twenty one, just days before everything exploded,
(06:54):
Bella coached a friend named Alan on how to talk
to Chris. She boasted about being quote extremely nice to him,
claiming this approach allowed her to hack into his bank account,
steal his money, get free trips, and manipulate him into
various situations. Most chillingly, when Alan joked, quote, I thought
the plan was to get him to kill himself, Bella
(07:17):
responded by describing a scheme to have others tell Chris
they were Jesus, then to comfort him afterwards while he
paid her that Bella had apparently crossed even her own lines.
From February through June twenty twenty one, she had been
impersonating Chris's high school acquaintance Kelly Andy's misspelling the name
(07:37):
even but she impersonated her and emails to Chris and
Chris couldn't tell the difference. While Bella was cultivating that
relationship with Chris, another group was involved, a collective of
self appointed protectors called the Watchmen, which I mentioned in
the previous episode. The Watchmen operated through discord servers with
a two layer structure. The first layer was visible to
(07:59):
Chris and guests. The second layer was private, where Watchmen
could discuss Chris without him knowing. Key members included Sean
Walker known as the WCT, a member using the handle
MKR night V, someone named not who I mentioned also
in the previous episode, and then others operating under various pseudonyms.
(08:22):
The Watchman's stated goal was to protect Chris from manipulation
and harm, but their methods were complicated. They played along
with Chris's delusions, They enabled his fantasies and when it
came to actual threats, they often missed the science entirely.
The Watchmen were deeply suspicious of Prader, believing that Caden
and his group were exploiting Chris financially. There was particular
(08:46):
drama in February twenty twenty one when Chris wanted to
borrow a taser from Prader to activate the dimensional merge.
I'd mentioned I discussed this in the previous episode if
you recall, he wanted to shock Courts crystals with a taser.
If you also remember, they had a three way call
and a Watchman member sarcastically suggested Chris should tase himself
on video, and Chris actually agreed, kind of joking, saying
(09:09):
that he was immune to electricity because he was part
sonachu Cayden from Prater did actually finally intervene, telling Chris
that that would be dangerous. Later, after the Watchmen leaked
selective clips of this conversation, it would be portrayed as
Prader trying to harm Chris when the opposite was true.
In early twenty twenty one, Chris began telling various people,
(09:30):
including Null, the owner of Kiwi Farms, members of the Watchmen,
Prater's Cayden and Bella that he was in a romantic
and sexual relationship with an older woman. Chris was deliberately
vague about her identity, giving hints but never confirming who
she was. In retrospect, these hints were obvious, but at
(09:51):
the time most people assumed that Chris had finally found
an age appropriate girlfriend. They were wrong. This older woman
was Barbara Chandler, Chris's seventy nine year old mother, the
woman who had raised him, supported him financially through his tugboat,
SSI disability payments, and shared a home with him for decades.
(10:17):
According to the Elite to Incest call, Chris claimed the
sexual relationship had been ongoing since late June twenty twenty one,
meaning that it had lasted roughly a month before Chris
decided to confide that in Bella. On July twenty seventh
or twenty eighth, Chris sent Bella encrypted text messages via
the Signal app, strongly implying that his secret relationship was
(10:39):
illegal and needed to be discussed securely. That night, at
approximately nine thirty pm Eastern time, Chris video called Bella
and Chris told her everything. The call lasted for hours.
Bella recorded it on her iPad, though she later claimed
much of the footage was lost when her device cut off.
(11:00):
In the portions that were leaved, Chris spoke with shocking
casualness about engaging in sexual acts with his own mother.
When Bella pressed for details, Chris happily provided them and
again content disclaimer, but I am going to play a
few clips separately of this call to summarize the call.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Though.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Chris says that Barbara made the first move, that he
had approached her with quote care and caution and been
direct and upfront, that the first kiss felt right, that
he'd had dreams about this for years and even mentioned
them publicly in old videos, that when he admitted everything
to his mother, she was partially confused at one point,
(11:40):
but came around with some more approaching by Chris, and
also that he believed God and Jesus had approved of
their relationship. Bella, for her part, played along. She didn't
express horror, disgust, or try to stop Chris from speaking.
She asked leading questions, She encouraged him him to elaborate.
(12:01):
She even laughed at points. She even laughed at points
when Chris mentioned the Oedipus complex, the Freuden concept of
a child's unconscious sexual desire for the opposite sex parent.
Chris confirmed that, yes, that's exactly what this was. I'm
going to go ahead and play a couple minutes of
(12:22):
this call here because this is the most notorious aspect
of Chris Chan in particular this, you know, this crime
that he committed. So I'm going to go ahead and
play a couple clips for this now. If you do
not want to listen to this again, it is incredibly
graphic in nature. Content warning, trigger warning, whatever, Please fast
forward for a few minutes until you find the jump.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
But how did this happen? How did this come about?
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Well? On which just mainly on this really great warning,
and I gained the true, an honest relationship about so
obviously this was one of the best ways to do it.
Despite it, I don't want the lady labels at all.
But obviously incess fan big except come.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
True and ship, I didn't even know there was such
a thing.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
I didn't even know there was incest fan fiction were
there about you and Barbara. I can't believe that I
didn't even think that. I knew that you guys had
a good relationship. But I always thought because I'm not
huge on Christy.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
And you know whatever.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
I just thought that the whole Sanatry franchise was very interesting.
And that's how I got into you when I was younger, right,
but I had I didn't have any idea that Barbara
was the barber and you had that's a relationship. I
never got any of those vibes. But how did you
approach her?
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Approached her with care and caution. It was a time.
It was a time approach. So I just gave her
comfort to talk with her, and I just crunched out
slow and stay and then I and I cursed her
positively by her make the first move. She wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
It, so she did. Really she made the first move?
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Oh really, wow, Barbara, how how did she do? If
you don't mind me asking? What was the first move?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (14:24):
I don't remember it? Well, that was her first move.
But my approach was forgot exactly what what term? What terminology? Approach?
I used? By approached the cater and caution.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
That's good, and I was and.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
I was direct with her for most part.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
That's good. And how did she respond when you when
you approached her, would she say.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
I don't I don't remember exactly what she said, but
it was kind of was I think she was partially
confused at one point. But but and she came around
obviously with the more approaching, with the more approaching than
I was said doing with her along.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
The way right, so she so she got into it.
How was did you? How was the first kiss you
kissed her? How did that feel? Having known this woman
for your whole life? How did that feel?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Oh? Yeah, I mean it was simple, the mot the
deleted kiss content.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
But yeah, actually, when did you start having feelings for Barbara?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Obviously for you know, well for a lot of time
I meet her. I remember you even mentioned some time agoing
on with things that I even had drains where I had.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, if you guys need a minute after that, I
completely understand. After this conversation, Bella immediately began sharing this
information everywhere. You might be asking yourself. She went to police, right, No, no, no,
Bella did not go to authorities. She went to her
(16:04):
inner circle online. According to discord logs, on July twenty eighth,
at three ten am, Bella posted in her private chess
club discord server about to video call cwc IF five
forty am. She posted we talked for like four hours.
I took some random clips. I'm trying to compile it now.
(16:25):
Someone asked if she would leak it to the documentary guy, who,
presumably they were referring to Geno Samuel, who was at
that point creating a comprehensive Chris chan documentary series. Again
that is complete. It's the one I refer to in
every single episode. It's like eighty episodes long. I mean,
you have hundreds of hours of viewing there, and it
is very, very thorough. Props to you, Gino. So when
(16:49):
someone asked her of hey, are you going to go
to Geno Samuel, she replied, quote, I'll leak it to
everyone eventually. I'm sending it to Sweetress right now. Nobody
predicted this really. The Sweetress was Fiona Cooper, also known
as Snow. Fiona was a young autistic woman whom Bella
had befriended and manipulated. Chris had developed romantic interests in Fiona,
(17:12):
and there were plans for Chris, Bella and Fiona to
actually attend Ever Free Northwest of My Little Pony convention
in August, so a couple months after, on the night
of July twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. The audio clips
and accompanying text messages were leaked online simultaneously by multiple sources.
Within hours, they went viral worldwide. The response was immediate
(17:36):
and overwhelming. Twitter users worldwide began trending Chris's name. I
don't know if you guys remember, but I remember this
like it was yesterday, because it was the coming together
of insane back you know, four chan ish like other
side of the Internet that people in the mainstream don't
(17:57):
really see, right, So imagine shock at U waking up
checking Twitter and seeing Chris Chan trending on Twitter as
the number one thing people in the world are talking about.
And that's what happened. It was wild. Reddit exploded with discussion,
YouTube commentary channels scrambled to cover the story. God, I
even covered this when it happened, and hundreds, possibly thousands
(18:21):
of people contacted the Green County Police Department to report
on what they had heard. On the morning of July thirtieth,
twenty twenty one, Green County Police arrived at fourteen Branchling
Court for a wellness check on Barbara Chandler. The police
determined that Barbara needed protective intervention. They issued an emergency
protective order against Chris, essentially a temporary restraining order preventing
(18:43):
any contact between Chris and his mother for one week
until August fifth, Barbara was relocated to a hospital for
senior care evaluation. The house Chris had lived in his
entire life was now forbidden to him. Chris, suddenly homeless,
took seven hundred and fift ffty dollars in cash from
his mother and drove to Richmond, Virginia, about seventy miles away. There,
(19:05):
he checked into the Regency in Richmond, a budget motel,
for the next day and a half. Chris stayed in
room seven of the motel, apparently believing that this would
just all blow over. Chris had been playing make believe
his entire life. He talked his way out of consequences
time and time and time again. His history of run
ins with the law had resulted in nothing more than
(19:28):
misdemeanor charges and diversion programs, but this time would be different.
On the afternoon of July thirty first, a Reddit user
with the handle Chris Aman discovered Chris's car, Son Chew,
parked outside the Regency in Richmond. Words spread quickly through
Kiwi farms and other forums. Soon, Internet personality Ethan Ralph,
(19:51):
a controversial podcast host associated with the alt right and
gamer gate movement, arrived at the motel with a crew,
hoping to confront Chris on camera. Elf and his crew
knocked on Chris's door but got no response. They went
across the street to Regency Mall, incorrectly speculating that Chris
might be there, and while live streaming at the mall,
they encountered a police officer. This same officer would ironically
(20:15):
be one of the ones to arrest Chris hours later.
The next day, at around six pm, Ethan Ralph received
a tip four police cars had arrived at the motel.
Ralph rushed back and began live streaming. Over three thousand
viewers watched live as two officers went up to Chris's
door at the motel, knocked on it, took him into custody,
(20:39):
escorted Chris down from his second floor room, placed him
in handcuffs, and conducted the arrest. The bodycam footage, which
was released years later, actually last year in August by
the YouTube channel oo Wu bodycam, provides all the additional details.
Unlike Chris's previous encounters with police, this arrest was remarkably calm.
(21:00):
Chris didn't resist, he didn't run, he didn't attack anyone
with pepper spray as he had in a twenty fourteen
incident at GameStop. Perhaps Chris had finally realized the gravity
of the situation, or perhaps the WCT one of the watchmen,
had successfully advised Chris the previous day to cooperate fully
with police when they came. As officers approached with their
(21:23):
tasers drawn, warning Chris that they would use it if
he resisted, Chris said, I will comply. During the arrests,
though Chris made several notable statements, he mentioned having two
cell phones, one for dealing with trolls, one for friends,
referencing the Kevin Gates song two phones, and while sitting handcuffed,
(21:44):
Chris audibly farted and said, pardon my flatulence. When police
asked if he wanted to remove his medallions and necklaces
before going to jail, Chris claimed his sonachu medallion was
a religious cross that protects him, hoping it would qualify
for any exemption. The officer didn't think the jail staff
would agree, but most bizarrely, Chris rambled to both the
(22:06):
police and Ethan Ralph's crew about the dimensional merge. He
insisted that it was happening right at that moment. At
one point, Chris told officers that his imaginary husband Maggachn
was giving them a gentle punch across dimensions. Now Ethan Ralph,
who had personal animosity toward Knull, the Kiwi Farm's owner
who had been helping Chris, tried repeatedly to turn Chris
(22:29):
against Null. Chris didn't respond to any of those provocations.
At approximately six thirty pm, Chris was loaded into a
police car and transperred and transported to the county jail
for booking. Chris was booked on one count of incest.
Despite online speculation and outrage, Chris was not charged with
rape or sexual assault. Virginia law defines incest between a
(22:52):
parent and child as a Class five felony, punishable by
up to ten years in prison. The Green County Sheriff's
office stated that Chris's arrest was part of quote an
ongoing investigation with additional charges pending. However, no additional charges
would ever materialize. The question of consent was and remains complicated.
(23:14):
Barbara Chandler was seventy nine years old. In the Elite Text,
Chris mentioned Barbara having quote memory problems, and this is
the thing too, Barbara was not doing well. People were
concerned about Barb before any of this even came out,
whether thematically or the Elite Text, people had been worried for Barb.
(23:35):
The couple life checks that people got over the previous months,
she looked demented in terms of it was very clear
to most people that Barb Chandler was suffering from dementia. Now,
whether that dementia affected her ability to consent, that was
never fully established. That was never officially established. And again,
(23:59):
Barbara had appeared Chris's begging videos over the years, sometimes
seemingly playing up frailty to illicit donations. But then again
she would appear frail and confused in one, but then
appear relatively lucid in the very next one. The legal
standard for incest in Virginia doesn't require proving lack of
consent or coercion. The act itself, if proven, is the crime.
(24:24):
This is why Chris was charged with incest rather than rape.
On August fifth, twenty twenty one, Chris appeared before Green
County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court for arraignment. According to reports,
Chris interrupted proceedings multiple times, begging for his toys and
personal belongings. When asked for the passwords to his electronic devices,
(24:45):
Chris's naive response suggests that he still didn't grasp the
severity of the situation. Judge David M. Barrato ordered Chris
held without bond until the next hearing, scheduled for September sixteenth,
citing concerns for Chris's safety and that of the public.
Chris's gender designation in the jail system became a brief
(25:06):
point of controversy on the Vine custody system, which transmits
jail records to the public. Chris's gender was initially listed
as female, then changed to mail shortly after the arrest.
The jail provided no explanation for this change. When a
reporter was asked about Chris's well being, a jail representative said, quote,
(25:27):
I've had an interaction with inmate Chandler and it's been fine.
Everything is okay. And a lot of the responses from
the jail in terms of check ins interviews, things like
that they did refer to Chris as they versus really
doubling down on a gender Starting in August twenty twenty one,
Chris began writing letters to various correspondents. These letters would
(25:50):
continue through February of twenty twenty two and provide disturbing
insight into Chris's mental state. Chris wrote Kenneth Ingleheardt, a
longtime correspondent and enabler. He wrote to various fans and Christorians.
He even wrote to random people who sent him requests.
The content of his jail letters was deeply concerning. In these,
(26:12):
Chris proclaimed himself to be Jesus Christ reincarnated, warned about
an impending judgment day, rambled about the dimensional merge still happening,
drew elaborate jail art depicting himself as a goddess figure,
showed absolutely no remorse or acknowledgment that his actions were wrong,
entreated the incarceration as a temporary inconvenience before his cosmic destiny.
(26:37):
In one particularly disturbing piece of artwork from May of
twenty twenty two, Chris drew himself as a serene goddess figure,
surrounded by positive affirmations, including happiness can still be a
hug away, even if you're hugging yourself. The letters revealed
that prison had not caused Chris to face reality. If anything,
the delusions were intensifying. Chris sep u sixteenth hearing was
(27:01):
continued to November eighteenth for additional mental health evaluation. The
November hearing was continued to February third, twenty twenty two.
February hearing was continued to July eighteenth, twenty twenty two.
The pattern of delays was unusual, but not unprecedented in
cases involving questions of mental competency. Then, on February twenty eighth,
(27:22):
twenty twenty two, Chris was transferred from Central Virginia Regional
Jail to Western State Hospital in Stanton, Virginia. Western State
Hospital is a psychiatric facility operated by the Virginia Department
of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services. Chris was sent there
for quote restoration of competency treatment after being deemed incompetent
(27:44):
to stand trial. Now, what does we hear it all
the time? Incompetent to stand trial mean? In Virginia law,
defendants must be able to understand the nature and object
of the proceedings, comprehend their own condition in reference to
such proceedings, and assist their attorney in their defense. Chris
(28:05):
had apparently failed to meet all three of those standards,
likely due to the persistent delusions about being a goddess
reincarnation of Jesus Christ, the dimensional merge, and all of
the other disconnects from reality. For exactly three months, from
late February through early May twenty twenty two, Chris remained
(28:25):
at Western State Hospital and very very little information leaked
out during this time. Couldn't send letters from the psychiatric facility,
he couldn't make phone calls. He effectively disappeared from public view.
A couple months later, on May third, twenty twenty two,
Chris was transferred back to Central Virginia Regional Jail. A
(28:46):
new mugshot was taken. The change in Chris's appearance was startling.
He was noticeably thinner, with sunken eyes and a gaunt face.
His hair had grown longer and hung limply. Most notably,
his expression was one of exhaustion and defeat, which was
a sharp contrast to the almost content look in his
(29:06):
August twenty one booking photo, where Chris seemed to be
treating the arrest as some sort of adventure. According to
a jail letter dated May eleventh, Chris had experienced what
he called a quote pin me down event the day
before his transfer back to jail, implying some sort of
forced restraint or incident at the hospital. Also in that
(29:29):
May eleventh letter, Chris made a shocking claim he now
denied ever having sex with Barbara, despite the recorded audio
of Chris explicitly describing in detail the sexual relationship to Bella,
despite the text messages, despite Chris's own admissions to multiple
people before the arrest, Chris now claimed it was all fabricated.
(29:52):
In a subsequent letter, Chris alleged that Barbara had confessed
to making everything up during the call. In a subsequent letter,
Chris le edge that Bella had confessed to making everything
up during the call. Yeah, that's a claim that has
no supporting evidence whatsoever, But this denial would become Chris's
consistent position moving forward. Almost exactly one year after the
(30:16):
leaked Incess call, Chris's case moved forward significantly. The Green
County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court certified the case to
the Circuit Court, meaning it would go before a grand
jury for potential felony indictment. This was serious. A grand
jury indictment would mean Chris would face a formal felony
(30:36):
trial with the possibility of up to ten years in
prison if convicted. However, on August fifth, twenty twenty two,
Chris's attorney, David Heilberg, filed a motion for something called
an autism disorder deferred disposition. This is a Virginia statute
created in twenty twenty. It's similar to deferred prosecution programs
(30:58):
for first time offenders, but specifically for defendants diagnosed with autism,
spectrum disorder, or intellectual disabilities. Under this program, criminal proceedings
are suspended, the defendant enters a treatment or supervision program.
If the defendant successfully completes the program, the charges are dismissed,
(31:18):
and if the defendant fails, the prosecution resumes. The law
was designed to recognize that people with developmental disabilities may
not benefit from incarceration the same way neurotypical defendants might,
and that alternative approaches could be more appropriate, especially for
first time offenders. Chris certainly qualified for the program. He'd
(31:40):
been diagnosed with autism and childhood, he had extensive documentation
of developmental challenges, and despite numerous misdemeanors over the years,
this was his first felony charge. On August eighth, twenty
twenty two, the grand jury meant to consider Chris's case.
They did not issue indictment. Instead, the case was continued,
(32:04):
consistent with a deferred disposition's requirement that further proceedings be
suspended while the defendant participates in the program. Court records
were updated to indicate that placement in a transitional residential
housing program called Gateway Homes was being considered for Chris.
On August eleventh, twenty twenty two, something highly unusual happened.
(32:25):
Green County Circuit Court sealed Chris's case. File wave, right
to indictment, and transportation order were added to the docket,
but the meanings of these legal maneuvers were unclear to
outside observers. The ceiling was reportedly due to quote excessive
online interest and interference in the case, because for nearly
(32:47):
a year and a half, trolls, weans and Cristorians had
been calling the court house, sending letters, filing frivolous motions,
and generally making the administration of justice extremely difficult. Five
people in particular were identified as causing the most eruption.
They became known online as the Unholy quintet of trolls
(33:11):
who had pestered the court system so relentlessly that they
potentially affected the case's outcome. The ceiling meant that updates
about Chris's case would now be much harder to obtain.
Court dates, hearing results, and legal developments would no longer
be publicly accessible in real time for the next several months.
Chris's situation would remain murky because of that. Then, on
(33:35):
March twenty seventh, twenty twenty three, christorians monitoring the vine
link inmate tracking system noticed something shocking. Chris's status had
changed to out of custody. Chris had been released after
one year and seven months behind bars, six hundred and
four days total. A new mugshot accompanied the release. Chris
(33:58):
looked healthier than he did in the May twenty twenty
two photo, more weight less, sunkenized even a slight smile,
still noticeably changed from pre arrest Chris, but improved from
the worst periods of incarceration, But the release was confusing.
Vine Link initially reported Chris had been bonded out, meaning
that someone had posted bail, but nearly four hours later
(34:21):
the record was changed to released by court order. No
explanation was given, no press release was issued. The Green
County Circuit Court simply posted a release order on April
third of twenty twenty three, confirming that yes, Chris was out,
but providing no details about why or under what conditions.
Speculation ran rampant online. Had Chris's family posted bond, had
(34:46):
a benefactor helped, Had the court simply decided to release
Chris penning the deferred disposition program. The truth appeared to
be the latter. Chris was being released to enter Gateway Homes,
the transitional housing program mentioned in court records months early earlier.
For nearly five months, Chris remained completely silent. No social
media posts, no videos, no appearances, no sightings. For someone
(35:10):
who had maintained an online presence for nearly two decades,
through good times and bad, through trolling and doxing and harassment,
this total absence was eerie. Chris had seemingly vanished. Theories abounded.
Was Chris still in some way in a supervised facility.
Had he finally learned to stay offline with someone controlling
(35:32):
his access to the Internet. Had something happened to him?
This mystery would persist until late August twenty twenty three.
On August twenty third to twenty twenty three, Chris suddenly
mass uploaded artwork to devianto Art. Don't forget you, guys.
Chris was so open about all of his accounts names
things like that. He would stream on YouTube people knew,
(35:54):
and he would always use like CWC or sona chew,
things like that, And on August twenty he uploaded artwork
to deviant Art. The uploads included unseen art completed during
his period of an activity, new Snachu comic pages, and
custom cards for Twilight Sparkle's Secret Ship thick folder of
(36:15):
My Little Pony fan card game. It was Chris's first
public activity since before the arrest nearly two full years earlier,
but Chris still didn't post any statements or videos, just
art dumps. The account behind the uploads was clearly Chris,
but was Chris acting independently or was someone helping. Two
(36:35):
days later, on August twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, court
watchers checking the Green County Circuit court system noticed a
critical update. Chris's incest charge had been dismissed. The case
status changed from resolved order pending to dismissed. On August eighth,
exactly one year after the grand jury had declined to indict.
(36:58):
The court had evidently been satisfied with Chris's progress and
the autism disorder Deferred Disposition program. Chris had completed the requirements,
and the charge was dropped. Chris was now legally a
free person with no criminal record of that incident. The
reaction online was mixed, to say the least. Some observers
(37:21):
were outraged, feeling that Chris had once again avoided accountability
for serious wrongdoings through a combination of autism diagnosis, sympathetic attorneys,
and an overwhelmed justice system. Others argued the deferred disposition
had worked exactly as intended, providing an alternative to incarceration
for a first time felony offender with documented developmental disabilities. Still,
(37:46):
others felt cheated by the anticlimactic resolution after following the
case for two and a half years. But there was
one thing that was certain. Chris was free and the
world was watching to see what would happen next. In
mid September twenty twenty three, Reddit users began posting citing
reports of Chris in public, and Chris wasn't alone. Chris
(38:09):
was consistently spotted with a young blond woman estimated to
be in her twenties or mere thirties, at various locations
around Lynchburg and Roanoke, Virginia. On September seventeenth, the two
were allegedly photographed kissing at a CBS pharmacy. A Reddit
user named otaku King claimed to have inside information that
(38:29):
they were a couple, in that Chris was at home,
safe and getting the right help he needed. This was extraordinary.
Chris had spent his entire adult life desperately seeking a girlfriend.
His love quest had been a defining feature of his
story since two thousand and Despite countless attempts, Chris had
never maintained a real romantic relationship, and, now fresh out
(38:52):
of jail for committing incest with his own mother, Chris
appeared to have found someone willing to be seen with
him in public, holding hands, apparently even kissing. But who
was she? What was her story? Why would anyone choose
to associate with someone whose name had been in major
news outlets connected to a disgusting one of the most
(39:12):
discussing crimes imaginable. Well, that answer would come in October.
On October sixteenth, twenty twenty three, Chris uploaded a bizarre
video to YouTube, the first new video since July of
twenty twenty one. The video feature Chris standing in front
of a green screen, singing parody versions of songs from
the Pokemon to Be a Master album. Clips of Chris
(39:35):
dancing were overlaid throughout. I remember the day that came out.
Iris and I were actually watching that together and discussing
it and did an episode when Chris came back. You
can actually on this podcast go back to August of
twenty twenty three, and you will find episodes that I
did when Chris return. You can listen to those for
real time and that moment reactions. But what was so
(39:57):
interesting about these is that the production quality was no
notably high, far beyond Chris's usual capabilities. The editing effects
and green screen work clearly indicated professional assistance. Observers immediately
suspected Prater's involvement, and they were almost certainly correct. On
October seventeenth, Chris posted the video everyone had been waiting for.
(40:21):
It was titled setting the record straight, there was never
any sex involving me in twenty twenty one. In this
twelve minute video, Chris claimed the entire incest story was
fabricated that he had been lying to troll Bella incorrectly
stated the court had found him innocent, when in reality,
the charge had been dismissed through the deferred disposition program
(40:43):
without any determination of guilt or innocence. He rambled extensively
about being the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, complete with detailed
theological claims about his divine nature, and he revealed the
identity of the mysterious woman he called her Flutter. Flutter
is a nickname Chris gave her, and he was refusing
(41:04):
to reveal her real name despite tons of offers of
money from trolls desperate for this information. Chris described Flutter
as a friend in the October video, though their behavior
in public sighting suggested a way more romantic relationship. Details
about Flutter still remain scarce, but here's what observers have
(41:24):
pieced together. She appears to be in her late twenties
or early thirties. She has blonde hair and a very
petite build. According to one Reddit user who witnessed their
interaction in person, Flutter does not have an accent, which
suggests that she's American. Another Reddit user claims that she's
spoke in a fake anime girl voice. She often keeps
Chris in check during public interactions, stopping him from escalating situations,
(41:49):
and she appears to have some connection to Finland. In
this last point, Finland would become crucial in understanding the
modern Chris Chand story. In October of twenty twenty three,
Chris joined the language learning app due Lingo and began
intentively studying finish. Chris would mention Duelingo frequently, but always
(42:11):
refuse to specify which language he was learning. In June
twenty twenty three, while Chris was still under supervision in
the Deferred Disposition program, Cayden Peck and an LLC called
Essential Estate purchased a property in Big Island, Virginia. Big
Island is a small community about forty five miles west
(42:31):
of Lunchburg, with a population of around three hundred people.
The house was modest and located in a rural area.
Chris moved into this house as a renter, and Cayden
became effectively Chris's landlord. This arrangement raised significant questions. Was
Prater now housing Chris as part of their business relationship?
(42:53):
Was this a benevolent gesture to help Chris, or an
exploitation of someone with limited options. What percentage of Chris's
tugboat money and Etsy earnings was going to rent? Was
anyone monitoring this to ensure this arrangement was in Chris's
best interest? The answers still to this day remain unclear.
(43:14):
But Chris now had a stable place to live away
from fourteen branch Lin Court and his mother Barbara, who
apparently returned to the family home alone. And guys, that
is where we are going to be stopping today. One
more episode to go, y'all, and the Chris chand story
is complete. Would love to hear your feedback though, so
(43:35):
if you have strong opinions on what happened in this episode,
please come to Instagram and post them on the most
recent graphic for this episode. Leave a comment, let me
know what you think, how you feel. This is pretty
much the climax of the Chris chan story. So there's
been twenty one episodes previously a build up, and here
we are. There will be one more final episode coming
(43:55):
next week and beyond that, guys, don't forget there is
a new episode coming Sun of Red White and Bruce
where I'll be covering the political happenings and goings on
from this current week, and it's going to be a
doozy and I am mad as hell, so I look
forward to seeing you then. Can always reach out on
Instagram at We Saw the Double Podcast, Facebook and Twitter
(44:16):
at We Saw the Devil or Me personally at Robin
Underscore WSTD. But that's it for today, guys, until next
crime
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and armchair sleuth's obsessed. Be forewarned, Dear listener, We Saw
the Devil is not for the faint of heart. Our
unflinching exploration will take you to the darkest corners of
(00:41):
the psyche, and through the unimaginable depths of human darkness,
to unearthed stark secrets, to the harsh light of day.
Nothing will be left untouched. Are you ready? Are you sure?
We Saw the Devil?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Hello, very one, you are listening to We Saw the Devil.
This is Robyn and I am here with episode twenty two.
If you guys really think about it, I've spent hundreds
of hours of my life writing this episode and discussing
Chris chan and I don't know what that says about
me as a person. I don't think I want to
know but alas we are here, we are just one
(01:21):
episode away after this one, guys, and we are fully
up to date until October of twenty twenty five. But
before we get into that, a couple things. How are
all of you? It has been an abysmal week for
most of us. I'm pretty sure across the board, I
know that I am ready for the weekend and I
am not going to do a damn thing. If you
(01:43):
need me, I will be eating snacks in my internest
and watching horror movies. I also did put out a
secondary series on this channel called Red White and Bruised Again.
I just I'm so disgusted with where everything is right now.
At the first episode was titled F is for Fascism.
I don't know if any of you guys listen to
(02:03):
that episode, but after the week we just had you, guys,
I am going to be coming in hot so preparation
for any of you who listen to both. But this
is terrifying. This week was beyond comprehension. So look forward
to an episode there on Sunday. I can't even you know,
it's Friday. As of right now, I can't even imagine.
(02:25):
It just seems like what's that saying what kind of
fresh hell is the Today bringing? And I feel that
every single time I wake up, So expect a new
episode of Red, White, and Bruised on Sunday, and yeah,
only one more Chris Chan episode. Beyond that, guys, I
have a website framework up officially, so it is not
like the old site. It is not finessed and beautiful
(02:49):
and all of that, but I at least got a
space up that I can work on. So we saw
the deevil dot com is a thing. Feel free to go.
Like I said, it's very bare bones, doesn't even have
a but it does have a contact us section and
you can subscribe to the newsletter. Beyond that, don't forget
to follow the site where I primarily post updates. That
would be Instagram, which is We Saw the Double podcast,
(03:12):
Facebook and Twitter which is We Saw the Devil. And
then you can also follow me personally if you want.
Robin Underscore WSTD. But I guess that's all the housekeeping,
so let's just go ahead and get into it. On
July thirtieth, twenty twenty one, the Internet exploded with one
of the most disturbing revelations in the history of online documentation.
(03:34):
After fourteen years of being observed, trolled, and chronicled, Christine
Weston Chandler, known online as Chris Chan, would face allegations
that crossed every conceivable line. And this episode is the
story of what happened from arrest to incarceration, from a
mysterious release to international travel, and we will be covering
(03:56):
twenty twenty one to twenty twenty five in this This
is the beginning of the final chapter. To understand how
we arrived at the events of July of twenty twenty one,
we need to rewind to September twenty twenty A group
of teenagers from Guchland High School in Virginia, calling themselves Prader,
approached Chris with a business proposal, led by Caiden Peck,
(04:19):
who was eighteen at the time, Prater wanted to manufacture
and sell SONACHIU medallions. If you guys recall Chris had
tried to do this in the past, but he just
wasn't terribly terribly successful. The core members of Prater were Caden,
Owen and Annabelle. They met with Chris at fourteen Branchlin
(04:40):
Court and pitched their idea use a mold press to
create the medallions, sell them online and give Chris a
royalty cut. By December of twenty twenty, their Etsy shop
Official cw C Mart launched, like Official Quickmart. The medallions
they produced were ironically notably poor quality, even worse than
(05:02):
Chris's own handmade versions. Reviews complained about wet paint and
even hair her stuck to the surfaces of them, but
they sold, and they would continue to sell. Prater commissioned
an animator to create promotional content for their shop. It
was a flashy intro video featuring Chris and Sonachu characters.
(05:23):
That animator was a Texas Tech University student named Isabella
Loretta Jenkie, though she went by many aliases online, including Bella,
Kelly Osborne, and dozens of others. After Bella completed the
animation in November of twenty twenty, Chris reached out to
her independently. What began as a casual conversation would evolve
(05:45):
into something much darker and who is Bella well? According
to late information, she was born around the early two thousands,
making her roughly twenty twenty one years old. In twenty
twenty one, she described herself as a ute, lonely four
chan dweller and had a history of trolling and manipulation.
(06:06):
Her background was also notably unusual. Her father was a
cybersecurity expert and former Navy seal. Her mother had worked
as a psychologist for the CIA and was currently a therapist.
Despite or perhaps because of, this background, Bella exhibited what
many observers identified as signs of severe personality disorders. From
(06:30):
fall of twenty twenty through July of twenty twenty one,
Bella cultivated a friendship with Chris. She was patient, she
was encouraging, She played along with Chris's delusions about the
dimensional merge, and behind the scenes, she talked shit about
him and bragged about her access. In discord messages from
July nineteenth, twenty twenty one, just days before everything exploded,
(06:54):
Bella coached a friend named Alan on how to talk
to Chris. She boasted about being quote extremely nice to him,
claiming this approach allowed her to hack into his bank account,
steal his money, get free trips, and manipulate him into
various situations. Most chillingly, when Alan joked, quote, I thought
the plan was to get him to kill himself, Bella
(07:17):
responded by describing a scheme to have others tell Chris
they were Jesus, then to comfort him afterwards while he
paid her that Bella had apparently crossed even her own lines.
From February through June twenty twenty one, she had been
impersonating Chris's high school acquaintance Kelly Andy's misspelling the name
(07:37):
even but she impersonated her and emails to Chris and
Chris couldn't tell the difference. While Bella was cultivating that
relationship with Chris, another group was involved, a collective of
self appointed protectors called the Watchmen, which I mentioned in
the previous episode. The Watchmen operated through discord servers with
a two layer structure. The first layer was visible to
(07:59):
Chris and guests. The second layer was private, where Watchmen
could discuss Chris without him knowing. Key members included Sean
Walker known as the WCT, a member using the handle
MKR night V, someone named not who I mentioned also
in the previous episode, and then others operating under various pseudonyms.
(08:22):
The Watchman's stated goal was to protect Chris from manipulation
and harm, but their methods were complicated. They played along
with Chris's delusions, They enabled his fantasies and when it
came to actual threats, they often missed the science entirely.
The Watchmen were deeply suspicious of Prader, believing that Caden
and his group were exploiting Chris financially. There was particular
(08:46):
drama in February twenty twenty one when Chris wanted to
borrow a taser from Prader to activate the dimensional merge.
I'd mentioned I discussed this in the previous episode if
you recall, he wanted to shock Courts crystals with a taser.
If you also remember, they had a three way call
and a Watchman member sarcastically suggested Chris should tase himself
on video, and Chris actually agreed, kind of joking, saying
(09:09):
that he was immune to electricity because he was part
sonachu Cayden from Prater did actually finally intervene, telling Chris
that that would be dangerous. Later, after the Watchmen leaked
selective clips of this conversation, it would be portrayed as
Prader trying to harm Chris when the opposite was true.
In early twenty twenty one, Chris began telling various people,
(09:30):
including Null, the owner of Kiwi Farms, members of the Watchmen,
Prater's Cayden and Bella that he was in a romantic
and sexual relationship with an older woman. Chris was deliberately
vague about her identity, giving hints but never confirming who
she was. In retrospect, these hints were obvious, but at
(09:51):
the time most people assumed that Chris had finally found
an age appropriate girlfriend. They were wrong. This older woman
was Barbara Chandler, Chris's seventy nine year old mother, the
woman who had raised him, supported him financially through his tugboat,
SSI disability payments, and shared a home with him for decades.
(10:17):
According to the Elite to Incest call, Chris claimed the
sexual relationship had been ongoing since late June twenty twenty one,
meaning that it had lasted roughly a month before Chris
decided to confide that in Bella. On July twenty seventh
or twenty eighth, Chris sent Bella encrypted text messages via
the Signal app, strongly implying that his secret relationship was
(10:39):
illegal and needed to be discussed securely. That night, at
approximately nine thirty pm Eastern time, Chris video called Bella
and Chris told her everything. The call lasted for hours.
Bella recorded it on her iPad, though she later claimed
much of the footage was lost when her device cut off.
(11:00):
In the portions that were leaved, Chris spoke with shocking
casualness about engaging in sexual acts with his own mother.
When Bella pressed for details, Chris happily provided them and
again content disclaimer, but I am going to play a
few clips separately of this call to summarize the call.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Though.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Chris says that Barbara made the first move, that he
had approached her with quote care and caution and been
direct and upfront, that the first kiss felt right, that
he'd had dreams about this for years and even mentioned
them publicly in old videos, that when he admitted everything
to his mother, she was partially confused at one point,
(11:40):
but came around with some more approaching by Chris, and
also that he believed God and Jesus had approved of
their relationship. Bella, for her part, played along. She didn't
express horror, disgust, or try to stop Chris from speaking.
She asked leading questions, She encouraged him him to elaborate.
(12:01):
She even laughed at points. She even laughed at points
when Chris mentioned the Oedipus complex, the Freuden concept of
a child's unconscious sexual desire for the opposite sex parent.
Chris confirmed that, yes, that's exactly what this was. I'm
going to go ahead and play a couple minutes of
(12:22):
this call here because this is the most notorious aspect
of Chris Chan in particular this, you know, this crime
that he committed. So I'm going to go ahead and
play a couple clips for this now. If you do
not want to listen to this again, it is incredibly
graphic in nature. Content warning, trigger warning, whatever, Please fast
forward for a few minutes until you find the jump.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
But how did this happen? How did this come about?
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Well? On which just mainly on this really great warning,
and I gained the true, an honest relationship about so
obviously this was one of the best ways to do it.
Despite it, I don't want the lady labels at all.
But obviously incess fan big except come.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
True and ship, I didn't even know there was such
a thing.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
I didn't even know there was incest fan fiction were
there about you and Barbara. I can't believe that I
didn't even think that. I knew that you guys had
a good relationship. But I always thought because I'm not
huge on Christy.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
And you know whatever.
Speaker 6 (13:29):
I just thought that the whole Sanatry franchise was very interesting.
And that's how I got into you when I was younger, right,
but I had I didn't have any idea that Barbara
was the barber and you had that's a relationship. I
never got any of those vibes. But how did you
approach her?
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Approached her with care and caution. It was a time.
It was a time approach. So I just gave her
comfort to talk with her, and I just crunched out
slow and stay and then I and I cursed her
positively by her make the first move. She wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
It, so she did. Really she made the first move?
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Oh really, wow, Barbara, how how did she do? If
you don't mind me asking? What was the first move?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (14:24):
I don't remember it? Well, that was her first move.
But my approach was forgot exactly what what term? What terminology? Approach?
I used? By approached the cater and caution.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
That's good, and I was and.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
I was direct with her for most part.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
That's good. And how did she respond when you when
you approached her, would she say.
Speaker 5 (14:50):
I don't I don't remember exactly what she said, but
it was kind of was I think she was partially
confused at one point. But but and she came around
obviously with the more approaching, with the more approaching than
I was said doing with her along.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
The way right, so she so she got into it.
How was did you? How was the first kiss you
kissed her? How did that feel? Having known this woman
for your whole life? How did that feel?
Speaker 5 (15:20):
Oh? Yeah, I mean it was simple, the mot the
deleted kiss content.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
But yeah, actually, when did you start having feelings for Barbara?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
Obviously for you know, well for a lot of time
I meet her. I remember you even mentioned some time agoing
on with things that I even had drains where I had.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yeah, if you guys need a minute after that, I
completely understand. After this conversation, Bella immediately began sharing this
information everywhere. You might be asking yourself. She went to police, right, No, no, no,
Bella did not go to authorities. She went to her
(16:04):
inner circle online. According to discord logs, on July twenty eighth,
at three ten am, Bella posted in her private chess
club discord server about to video call cwc IF five
forty am. She posted we talked for like four hours.
I took some random clips. I'm trying to compile it now.
(16:25):
Someone asked if she would leak it to the documentary guy, who,
presumably they were referring to Geno Samuel, who was at
that point creating a comprehensive Chris chan documentary series. Again
that is complete. It's the one I refer to in
every single episode. It's like eighty episodes long. I mean,
you have hundreds of hours of viewing there, and it
is very, very thorough. Props to you, Gino. So when
(16:49):
someone asked her of hey, are you going to go
to Geno Samuel, she replied, quote, I'll leak it to
everyone eventually. I'm sending it to Sweetress right now. Nobody
predicted this really. The Sweetress was Fiona Cooper, also known
as Snow. Fiona was a young autistic woman whom Bella
had befriended and manipulated. Chris had developed romantic interests in Fiona,
(17:12):
and there were plans for Chris, Bella and Fiona to
actually attend Ever Free Northwest of My Little Pony convention
in August, so a couple months after, on the night
of July twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. The audio clips
and accompanying text messages were leaked online simultaneously by multiple sources.
Within hours, they went viral worldwide. The response was immediate
(17:36):
and overwhelming. Twitter users worldwide began trending Chris's name. I
don't know if you guys remember, but I remember this
like it was yesterday, because it was the coming together
of insane back you know, four chan ish like other
side of the Internet that people in the mainstream don't
(17:57):
really see, right, So imagine shock at U waking up
checking Twitter and seeing Chris Chan trending on Twitter as
the number one thing people in the world are talking about.
And that's what happened. It was wild. Reddit exploded with discussion,
YouTube commentary channels scrambled to cover the story. God, I
even covered this when it happened, and hundreds, possibly thousands
(18:21):
of people contacted the Green County Police Department to report
on what they had heard. On the morning of July thirtieth,
twenty twenty one, Green County Police arrived at fourteen Branchling
Court for a wellness check on Barbara Chandler. The police
determined that Barbara needed protective intervention. They issued an emergency
protective order against Chris, essentially a temporary restraining order preventing
(18:43):
any contact between Chris and his mother for one week
until August fifth, Barbara was relocated to a hospital for
senior care evaluation. The house Chris had lived in his
entire life was now forbidden to him. Chris, suddenly homeless,
took seven hundred and fift ffty dollars in cash from
his mother and drove to Richmond, Virginia, about seventy miles away. There,
(19:05):
he checked into the Regency in Richmond, a budget motel,
for the next day and a half. Chris stayed in
room seven of the motel, apparently believing that this would
just all blow over. Chris had been playing make believe
his entire life. He talked his way out of consequences
time and time and time again. His history of run
ins with the law had resulted in nothing more than
(19:28):
misdemeanor charges and diversion programs, but this time would be different.
On the afternoon of July thirty first, a Reddit user
with the handle Chris Aman discovered Chris's car, Son Chew,
parked outside the Regency in Richmond. Words spread quickly through
Kiwi farms and other forums. Soon, Internet personality Ethan Ralph,
(19:51):
a controversial podcast host associated with the alt right and
gamer gate movement, arrived at the motel with a crew,
hoping to confront Chris on camera. Elf and his crew
knocked on Chris's door but got no response. They went
across the street to Regency Mall, incorrectly speculating that Chris
might be there, and while live streaming at the mall,
they encountered a police officer. This same officer would ironically
(20:15):
be one of the ones to arrest Chris hours later.
The next day, at around six pm, Ethan Ralph received
a tip four police cars had arrived at the motel.
Ralph rushed back and began live streaming. Over three thousand
viewers watched live as two officers went up to Chris's
door at the motel, knocked on it, took him into custody,
(20:39):
escorted Chris down from his second floor room, placed him
in handcuffs, and conducted the arrest. The bodycam footage, which
was released years later, actually last year in August by
the YouTube channel oo Wu bodycam, provides all the additional details.
Unlike Chris's previous encounters with police, this arrest was remarkably calm.
(21:00):
Chris didn't resist, he didn't run, he didn't attack anyone
with pepper spray as he had in a twenty fourteen
incident at GameStop. Perhaps Chris had finally realized the gravity
of the situation, or perhaps the WCT one of the watchmen,
had successfully advised Chris the previous day to cooperate fully
with police when they came. As officers approached with their
(21:23):
tasers drawn, warning Chris that they would use it if
he resisted, Chris said, I will comply. During the arrests,
though Chris made several notable statements, he mentioned having two
cell phones, one for dealing with trolls, one for friends,
referencing the Kevin Gates song two phones, and while sitting handcuffed,
(21:44):
Chris audibly farted and said, pardon my flatulence. When police
asked if he wanted to remove his medallions and necklaces
before going to jail, Chris claimed his sonachu medallion was
a religious cross that protects him, hoping it would qualify
for any exemption. The officer didn't think the jail staff
would agree, but most bizarrely, Chris rambled to both the
(22:06):
police and Ethan Ralph's crew about the dimensional merge. He
insisted that it was happening right at that moment. At
one point, Chris told officers that his imaginary husband Maggachn
was giving them a gentle punch across dimensions. Now Ethan Ralph,
who had personal animosity toward Knull, the Kiwi Farm's owner
who had been helping Chris, tried repeatedly to turn Chris
(22:29):
against Null. Chris didn't respond to any of those provocations.
At approximately six thirty pm, Chris was loaded into a
police car and transperred and transported to the county jail
for booking. Chris was booked on one count of incest.
Despite online speculation and outrage, Chris was not charged with
rape or sexual assault. Virginia law defines incest between a
(22:52):
parent and child as a Class five felony, punishable by
up to ten years in prison. The Green County Sheriff's
office stated that Chris's arrest was part of quote an
ongoing investigation with additional charges pending. However, no additional charges
would ever materialize. The question of consent was and remains complicated.
(23:14):
Barbara Chandler was seventy nine years old. In the Elite Text,
Chris mentioned Barbara having quote memory problems, and this is
the thing too, Barbara was not doing well. People were
concerned about Barb before any of this even came out,
whether thematically or the Elite Text, people had been worried for Barb.
(23:35):
The couple life checks that people got over the previous months,
she looked demented in terms of it was very clear
to most people that Barb Chandler was suffering from dementia. Now,
whether that dementia affected her ability to consent, that was
never fully established. That was never officially established. And again,
(23:59):
Barbara had appeared Chris's begging videos over the years, sometimes
seemingly playing up frailty to illicit donations. But then again
she would appear frail and confused in one, but then
appear relatively lucid in the very next one. The legal
standard for incest in Virginia doesn't require proving lack of
consent or coercion. The act itself, if proven, is the crime.
(24:24):
This is why Chris was charged with incest rather than rape.
On August fifth, twenty twenty one, Chris appeared before Green
County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court for arraignment. According to reports,
Chris interrupted proceedings multiple times, begging for his toys and
personal belongings. When asked for the passwords to his electronic devices,
(24:45):
Chris's naive response suggests that he still didn't grasp the
severity of the situation. Judge David M. Barrato ordered Chris
held without bond until the next hearing, scheduled for September sixteenth,
citing concerns for Chris's safety and that of the public.
Chris's gender designation in the jail system became a brief
(25:06):
point of controversy on the Vine custody system, which transmits
jail records to the public. Chris's gender was initially listed
as female, then changed to mail shortly after the arrest.
The jail provided no explanation for this change. When a
reporter was asked about Chris's well being, a jail representative said, quote,
(25:27):
I've had an interaction with inmate Chandler and it's been fine.
Everything is okay. And a lot of the responses from
the jail in terms of check ins interviews, things like
that they did refer to Chris as they versus really
doubling down on a gender Starting in August twenty twenty one,
Chris began writing letters to various correspondents. These letters would
(25:50):
continue through February of twenty twenty two and provide disturbing
insight into Chris's mental state. Chris wrote Kenneth Ingleheardt, a
longtime correspondent and enabler. He wrote to various fans and Christorians.
He even wrote to random people who sent him requests.
The content of his jail letters was deeply concerning. In these,
(26:12):
Chris proclaimed himself to be Jesus Christ reincarnated, warned about
an impending judgment day, rambled about the dimensional merge still happening,
drew elaborate jail art depicting himself as a goddess figure,
showed absolutely no remorse or acknowledgment that his actions were wrong,
entreated the incarceration as a temporary inconvenience before his cosmic destiny.
(26:37):
In one particularly disturbing piece of artwork from May of
twenty twenty two, Chris drew himself as a serene goddess figure,
surrounded by positive affirmations, including happiness can still be a
hug away, even if you're hugging yourself. The letters revealed
that prison had not caused Chris to face reality. If anything,
the delusions were intensifying. Chris sep u sixteenth hearing was
(27:01):
continued to November eighteenth for additional mental health evaluation. The
November hearing was continued to February third, twenty twenty two.
February hearing was continued to July eighteenth, twenty twenty two.
The pattern of delays was unusual, but not unprecedented in
cases involving questions of mental competency. Then, on February twenty eighth,
(27:22):
twenty twenty two, Chris was transferred from Central Virginia Regional
Jail to Western State Hospital in Stanton, Virginia. Western State
Hospital is a psychiatric facility operated by the Virginia Department
of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services. Chris was sent there
for quote restoration of competency treatment after being deemed incompetent
(27:44):
to stand trial. Now, what does we hear it all
the time? Incompetent to stand trial mean? In Virginia law,
defendants must be able to understand the nature and object
of the proceedings, comprehend their own condition in reference to
such proceedings, and assist their attorney in their defense. Chris
(28:05):
had apparently failed to meet all three of those standards,
likely due to the persistent delusions about being a goddess
reincarnation of Jesus Christ, the dimensional merge, and all of
the other disconnects from reality. For exactly three months, from
late February through early May twenty twenty two, Chris remained
(28:25):
at Western State Hospital and very very little information leaked
out during this time. Couldn't send letters from the psychiatric facility,
he couldn't make phone calls. He effectively disappeared from public view.
A couple months later, on May third, twenty twenty two,
Chris was transferred back to Central Virginia Regional Jail. A
(28:46):
new mugshot was taken. The change in Chris's appearance was startling.
He was noticeably thinner, with sunken eyes and a gaunt face.
His hair had grown longer and hung limply. Most notably,
his expression was one of exhaustion and defeat, which was
a sharp contrast to the almost content look in his
(29:06):
August twenty one booking photo, where Chris seemed to be
treating the arrest as some sort of adventure. According to
a jail letter dated May eleventh, Chris had experienced what
he called a quote pin me down event the day
before his transfer back to jail, implying some sort of
forced restraint or incident at the hospital. Also in that
(29:29):
May eleventh letter, Chris made a shocking claim he now
denied ever having sex with Barbara, despite the recorded audio
of Chris explicitly describing in detail the sexual relationship to Bella,
despite the text messages, despite Chris's own admissions to multiple
people before the arrest, Chris now claimed it was all fabricated.
(29:52):
In a subsequent letter, Chris alleged that Barbara had confessed
to making everything up during the call. In a subsequent letter,
Chris le edge that Bella had confessed to making everything
up during the call. Yeah, that's a claim that has
no supporting evidence whatsoever, But this denial would become Chris's
consistent position moving forward. Almost exactly one year after the
(30:16):
leaked Incess call, Chris's case moved forward significantly. The Green
County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court certified the case to
the Circuit Court, meaning it would go before a grand
jury for potential felony indictment. This was serious. A grand
jury indictment would mean Chris would face a formal felony
(30:36):
trial with the possibility of up to ten years in
prison if convicted. However, on August fifth, twenty twenty two,
Chris's attorney, David Heilberg, filed a motion for something called
an autism disorder deferred disposition. This is a Virginia statute
created in twenty twenty. It's similar to deferred prosecution programs
(30:58):
for first time offenders, but specifically for defendants diagnosed with autism,
spectrum disorder, or intellectual disabilities. Under this program, criminal proceedings
are suspended, the defendant enters a treatment or supervision program.
If the defendant successfully completes the program, the charges are dismissed,
(31:18):
and if the defendant fails, the prosecution resumes. The law
was designed to recognize that people with developmental disabilities may
not benefit from incarceration the same way neurotypical defendants might,
and that alternative approaches could be more appropriate, especially for
first time offenders. Chris certainly qualified for the program. He'd
(31:40):
been diagnosed with autism and childhood, he had extensive documentation
of developmental challenges, and despite numerous misdemeanors over the years,
this was his first felony charge. On August eighth, twenty
twenty two, the grand jury meant to consider Chris's case.
They did not issue indictment. Instead, the case was continued,
(32:04):
consistent with a deferred disposition's requirement that further proceedings be
suspended while the defendant participates in the program. Court records
were updated to indicate that placement in a transitional residential
housing program called Gateway Homes was being considered for Chris.
On August eleventh, twenty twenty two, something highly unusual happened.
(32:25):
Green County Circuit Court sealed Chris's case. File wave, right
to indictment, and transportation order were added to the docket,
but the meanings of these legal maneuvers were unclear to
outside observers. The ceiling was reportedly due to quote excessive
online interest and interference in the case, because for nearly
(32:47):
a year and a half, trolls, weans and Cristorians had
been calling the court house, sending letters, filing frivolous motions,
and generally making the administration of justice extremely difficult. Five
people in particular were identified as causing the most eruption.
They became known online as the Unholy quintet of trolls
(33:11):
who had pestered the court system so relentlessly that they
potentially affected the case's outcome. The ceiling meant that updates
about Chris's case would now be much harder to obtain.
Court dates, hearing results, and legal developments would no longer
be publicly accessible in real time for the next several months.
Chris's situation would remain murky because of that. Then, on
(33:35):
March twenty seventh, twenty twenty three, christorians monitoring the vine
link inmate tracking system noticed something shocking. Chris's status had
changed to out of custody. Chris had been released after
one year and seven months behind bars, six hundred and
four days total. A new mugshot accompanied the release. Chris
(33:58):
looked healthier than he did in the May twenty twenty
two photo, more weight less, sunkenized even a slight smile,
still noticeably changed from pre arrest Chris, but improved from
the worst periods of incarceration, But the release was confusing.
Vine Link initially reported Chris had been bonded out, meaning
that someone had posted bail, but nearly four hours later
(34:21):
the record was changed to released by court order. No
explanation was given, no press release was issued. The Green
County Circuit Court simply posted a release order on April
third of twenty twenty three, confirming that yes, Chris was out,
but providing no details about why or under what conditions.
Speculation ran rampant online. Had Chris's family posted bond, had
(34:46):
a benefactor helped, Had the court simply decided to release
Chris penning the deferred disposition program. The truth appeared to
be the latter. Chris was being released to enter Gateway Homes,
the transitional housing program mentioned in court records months early earlier.
For nearly five months, Chris remained completely silent. No social
media posts, no videos, no appearances, no sightings. For someone
(35:10):
who had maintained an online presence for nearly two decades,
through good times and bad, through trolling and doxing and harassment,
this total absence was eerie. Chris had seemingly vanished. Theories abounded.
Was Chris still in some way in a supervised facility.
Had he finally learned to stay offline with someone controlling
(35:32):
his access to the Internet. Had something happened to him?
This mystery would persist until late August twenty twenty three.
On August twenty third to twenty twenty three, Chris suddenly
mass uploaded artwork to devianto Art. Don't forget you, guys.
Chris was so open about all of his accounts names
things like that. He would stream on YouTube people knew,
(35:54):
and he would always use like CWC or sona chew,
things like that, And on August twenty he uploaded artwork
to deviant Art. The uploads included unseen art completed during
his period of an activity, new Snachu comic pages, and
custom cards for Twilight Sparkle's Secret Ship thick folder of
(36:15):
My Little Pony fan card game. It was Chris's first
public activity since before the arrest nearly two full years earlier,
but Chris still didn't post any statements or videos, just
art dumps. The account behind the uploads was clearly Chris,
but was Chris acting independently or was someone helping. Two
(36:35):
days later, on August twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, court
watchers checking the Green County Circuit court system noticed a
critical update. Chris's incest charge had been dismissed. The case
status changed from resolved order pending to dismissed. On August eighth,
exactly one year after the grand jury had declined to indict.
(36:58):
The court had evidently been satisfied with Chris's progress and
the autism disorder Deferred Disposition program. Chris had completed the requirements,
and the charge was dropped. Chris was now legally a
free person with no criminal record of that incident. The
reaction online was mixed, to say the least. Some observers
(37:21):
were outraged, feeling that Chris had once again avoided accountability
for serious wrongdoings through a combination of autism diagnosis, sympathetic attorneys,
and an overwhelmed justice system. Others argued the deferred disposition
had worked exactly as intended, providing an alternative to incarceration
for a first time felony offender with documented developmental disabilities. Still,
(37:46):
others felt cheated by the anticlimactic resolution after following the
case for two and a half years. But there was
one thing that was certain. Chris was free and the
world was watching to see what would happen next. In
mid September twenty twenty three, Reddit users began posting citing
reports of Chris in public, and Chris wasn't alone. Chris
(38:09):
was consistently spotted with a young blond woman estimated to
be in her twenties or mere thirties, at various locations
around Lynchburg and Roanoke, Virginia. On September seventeenth, the two
were allegedly photographed kissing at a CBS pharmacy. A Reddit
user named otaku King claimed to have inside information that
(38:29):
they were a couple, in that Chris was at home,
safe and getting the right help he needed. This was extraordinary.
Chris had spent his entire adult life desperately seeking a girlfriend.
His love quest had been a defining feature of his
story since two thousand and Despite countless attempts, Chris had
never maintained a real romantic relationship, and, now fresh out
(38:52):
of jail for committing incest with his own mother, Chris
appeared to have found someone willing to be seen with
him in public, holding hands, apparently even kissing. But who
was she? What was her story? Why would anyone choose
to associate with someone whose name had been in major
news outlets connected to a disgusting one of the most
(39:12):
discussing crimes imaginable. Well, that answer would come in October.
On October sixteenth, twenty twenty three, Chris uploaded a bizarre
video to YouTube, the first new video since July of
twenty twenty one. The video feature Chris standing in front
of a green screen, singing parody versions of songs from
the Pokemon to Be a Master album. Clips of Chris
(39:35):
dancing were overlaid throughout. I remember the day that came out.
Iris and I were actually watching that together and discussing
it and did an episode when Chris came back. You
can actually on this podcast go back to August of
twenty twenty three, and you will find episodes that I
did when Chris return. You can listen to those for
real time and that moment reactions. But what was so
(39:57):
interesting about these is that the production quality was no
notably high, far beyond Chris's usual capabilities. The editing effects
and green screen work clearly indicated professional assistance. Observers immediately
suspected Prater's involvement, and they were almost certainly correct. On
October seventeenth, Chris posted the video everyone had been waiting for.
(40:21):
It was titled setting the record straight, there was never
any sex involving me in twenty twenty one. In this
twelve minute video, Chris claimed the entire incest story was
fabricated that he had been lying to troll Bella incorrectly
stated the court had found him innocent, when in reality,
the charge had been dismissed through the deferred disposition program
(40:43):
without any determination of guilt or innocence. He rambled extensively
about being the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, complete with detailed
theological claims about his divine nature, and he revealed the
identity of the mysterious woman he called her Flutter. Flutter
is a nickname Chris gave her, and he was refusing
(41:04):
to reveal her real name despite tons of offers of
money from trolls desperate for this information. Chris described Flutter
as a friend in the October video, though their behavior
in public sighting suggested a way more romantic relationship. Details
about Flutter still remain scarce, but here's what observers have
(41:24):
pieced together. She appears to be in her late twenties
or early thirties. She has blonde hair and a very
petite build. According to one Reddit user who witnessed their
interaction in person, Flutter does not have an accent, which
suggests that she's American. Another Reddit user claims that she's
spoke in a fake anime girl voice. She often keeps
Chris in check during public interactions, stopping him from escalating situations,
(41:49):
and she appears to have some connection to Finland. In
this last point, Finland would become crucial in understanding the
modern Chris Chand story. In October of twenty twenty three,
Chris joined the language learning app due Lingo and began
intentively studying finish. Chris would mention Duelingo frequently, but always
(42:11):
refuse to specify which language he was learning. In June
twenty twenty three, while Chris was still under supervision in
the Deferred Disposition program, Cayden Peck and an LLC called
Essential Estate purchased a property in Big Island, Virginia. Big
Island is a small community about forty five miles west
(42:31):
of Lunchburg, with a population of around three hundred people.
The house was modest and located in a rural area.
Chris moved into this house as a renter, and Cayden
became effectively Chris's landlord. This arrangement raised significant questions. Was
Prater now housing Chris as part of their business relationship?
(42:53):
Was this a benevolent gesture to help Chris, or an
exploitation of someone with limited options. What percentage of Chris's
tugboat money and Etsy earnings was going to rent? Was
anyone monitoring this to ensure this arrangement was in Chris's
best interest? The answers still to this day remain unclear.
(43:14):
But Chris now had a stable place to live away
from fourteen branch Lin Court and his mother Barbara, who
apparently returned to the family home alone. And guys, that
is where we are going to be stopping today. One
more episode to go, y'all, and the Chris chand story
is complete. Would love to hear your feedback though, so
(43:35):
if you have strong opinions on what happened in this episode,
please come to Instagram and post them on the most
recent graphic for this episode. Leave a comment, let me
know what you think, how you feel. This is pretty
much the climax of the Chris chan story. So there's
been twenty one episodes previously a build up, and here
we are. There will be one more final episode coming
(43:55):
next week and beyond that, guys, don't forget there is
a new episode coming Sun of Red White and Bruce
where I'll be covering the political happenings and goings on
from this current week, and it's going to be a
doozy and I am mad as hell, so I look
forward to seeing you then. Can always reach out on
Instagram at We Saw the Double Podcast, Facebook and Twitter
(44:16):
at We Saw the Devil or Me personally at Robin
Underscore WSTD. But that's it for today, guys, until next
crime
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