The Terrifier Franchise

Robin discusses the Terrifier franchise, as well as what she's been watching during the month of October. Is it time to move on from documentaries that discuss possible identities of unknown killers? Can Ryan Murphy do anything right at all? Let's discuss. 

***This episode is unedited. 
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Sunny spaces, smiling faces, happy places. But every sunny space
holds a shadow. Behind every smile, our sharp teeth, and
every happy place has something sinister lurking just below the surface.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to We Saw the Devil, the podcast diving deep
into the chilling realms of true crime. Join your host
Robin as she unravels mysteries that have left investigators baffled
and armchair sleuth's obsessed. Be forewarned, Dear listener, We Saw
the Devil is not for the faint of heart. Our
unflinching exploration will take you to the darkest corners of

(00:41):
the psyche and through the unimaginable depths of human darkness
to unearth stark secrets. To the harsh light of day.
Nothing will be left untouched. Are you ready?

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Are you sure?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
We Saw the Devil?

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello everyone, you are listening to We Saw the Devil.
This is Robyn and I am here with a new episode. Yes, guys,
I am back. I know that it has been a
little bit. I know that it has been a little while,
and there's good reason, which I'll get to that momentarily,
but I wanted to pop in with a quick episode
to be honest, I wanted to get this out on Halloween,
if not before. I had big plans for it, as

(01:22):
you guys recall, probably in the last episode, but the
last that did not happen because we just had my
favorite holiday of the year. I mean, Halloween, it's the best.
But yeah, so I wanted to pop in and discuss
what I watched for Halloween, which is a lot true
crime documentaries and then also a movie and up until

(01:44):
this point, kind of franchise review for Terrifier three, because
I did see that a couple weeks ago. Again, I
meant to do an episode on Terrifier and the franchise
back then, but you'll understand why that didn't happen in
a moment Before we get into it, though, just get
the housekeeping out of the way. You're listening to We
Saw the Devil. I am back full time, two episodes

(02:06):
a week from here on out. If you want to
follow the podcast, honestly, I'm pretty much mostly on Instagram.
We Saw the Devil podcast. If you want to follow
me my personal life, Shenanigans, the Dogs, so forth, you
can do that at Robin Underscore WSTD and apologies. My
voice is still coming back, so maybe an extra serving

(02:29):
of vocal fry or gravel probably for the next episode
or two until I fully recover bit. And if you
don't care about my personal life at all, then just
fuss forward about five minutes and you'll be good. I promise.
So I mean in all, honestly, y'all, I've kind of
had a hell of a time over the last two months.
Like I actually want to share this with you because

(02:52):
it seems like my life over the last year has
kind of been Elimonae Snicket's unfortunate series of events type
of situation. It kind of all started the first week
of September. As you all know, I was seeing someone.
I went to Knoxville. It's been my birthday with her.
I got super sick. I'm talking about like projectile vomiting,

(03:13):
black cake, the whole bit. It was absolutely awful. Recovered
from that, went back the following week. Everything was great,
everything was wonderful, and then I passed out for absolutely
no reason at a like a little show to brewery.
No idea why I'm talking about standing there completely fine,
all of a sudden tunnel vision and then woke up
with people surrounding me being like, bro, you okay, no idea,

(03:37):
and then then I immediately came to everything was fine,
you know whatever, went home and tested positive for COVID,
So COVID wasn't itself wasn't rough, but you know, obviously
I had COVID, so that was cool. Waited twelve days,
went back to see her again, saw Terrifier three, planned

(03:59):
to do this episode. So then but time just got
away from me. And then three weeks ago visited this
person again, got super super sick. I'm talking one hundred
and three point seven degree fever. If you know me,
I'm like, I've never been sick, Like I'm not a
sick person, but I feel like this year I have
been ended up having an almost one hundred and four

(04:20):
degree fever. My tonsils, my lymph nodes swelled up. I'm
talking about like I had five chins. It was awful.
My tonsils were so swollen I couldn't even close my mouth.
I mean, it was just absolutely awful. It was the
most painful experience I've ever been through. It was so painful.
And then after that happened, I actually ended up ending

(04:42):
it with the person that I've been with for the
last I guess next month would have been a year,
So no, I haven't been purposely ignoring the podcast out
partying anything like that. I have quite literally been languishing
in bed sick and not doing so hot I guess,
you know, physically or emotionally really, So I hope you

(05:06):
guys can forgive me. It's been a lot over the
last couple months since the last episode. I was so
excited to get back in the saddle and whatnot, and
the last month of being just constantly sick has gotten
to me. And as I said, like, I'm still I
was this like the the current round of illness started
three weeks ago, and you guys can still hear my

(05:26):
voice like it's still gravelly and not all the way
back yet. So please forgive me. I hope you can.
But yeah, I mean we're we're back full time and
cooking here now. But that's enough of that. Let's talk
about more positive things like Terrifier. And I'm really excited
to talk about it because it's super rare that a

(05:47):
horror film actually makes it this big and is this
big of a commercial success, much less one that's unrated
and as gory as this one. And I actually just
read that Terrifier three is the highest grip seeing unrated
movie of all time. Guys, that's insane, insane considering it's
about a possessed, demonic clown that kills people in more

(06:10):
or less spectacularly bloody fashion, I mean less, quite seriously
the entire premise here. So let's talk about the franchise
really quick, and I'll give my overall thoughts on the
new one now, because the first two have been out
for a couple of years now each, the first one
twenty sixteen, the second twenty twenty two. I'm just gonna
full on spoiler those, so if you don't want to

(06:31):
hear it, this isn't the episode for you. The third one,
I'm gonna give just some maybe a couple of little spoilers,
but not ruin you know, ruin it, ruin It. So
just take that into account and listen at your useier discretion.
So even if you haven't seen the films, you've undoubtedly

(06:52):
seen Arth the Clown. The character of Art the Clown
is the love child of horror director Damian Leone, and
he's based on a concept that he had imagining a
woman riding the bus late at night alone and there's
a clown sitting in front of her, taunting her, and
the clown was to be everything that Stephen King's penny

(07:14):
Wise was not. Now. Art's first appearance was in a
short film called The Ninth Circle that was released in
two thousand and nine, and there was some very very
light interest in the character. So Art ended up returning
in a feature anthology film called All Hallow's Eve in
twenty thirteen, and there was a lot more interest in

(07:35):
Art the clown. So that's when kind of a minor
obsession formed because he just looked cool, he looked different.
I mean, if you're a fan of horror films, you
know that we have the pantheon right of Slashers in particular,
we have Freddy and Jason and Michael and leather Face
and penny Wise and Penhead, you know, Chucky. We have

(07:59):
all of the quote unquote greats, right, but there hasn't
really been a new one in forever, and so there
was some interest there, right in a new horror villain. Previously,
Art had been played by an actor named Mike Gianelli,
but for the first feature film in the franchise, twenty
sixteen's Terrifier, they recast him. Mike ended up retiring and

(08:22):
they ended up recasting Art the clown. Actor David Howard
Thornton took over the mask and it fit perfectly. Thornton's
ability to leer and snarl yet be completely unhinged and
ridiculous and lots of elements of slapstick was the perfect formula.
I mean, it's utterly unsettling and it's hilarious at the

(08:46):
same time. Also side note, apologies, I've really tried to
sound proof, but my parrot is on one today and
singing the song of his people, so I hope you
I hope he'll stop in this episode. So that really
weird sound you hear in the background is my cockatoo unfortunately.
But in terms of Terrifier one, I'll be the first

(09:08):
to admit that I'm not a huge fan of it.
It's so low budget thirty five thousand dollars, which if
you know much about film, you know that that is
just shockingly low, especially trying to create something that Terrifier.
The vision of Terrifier what it's set out to do,
and it doesn't relatively effectively. Art is absolutely menacing yet hilarious,

(09:32):
and the film follows Art as he stalks two friends,
Tara and Don he ends up murdering Dawn and then
you know, taking Kara, taking Tara, getting to the kill scene,
and her sister Victoria realizes something's wrong and arrives at
this warehouse in an attempt to find and save her Tara.
Her sister Victoria then has her face eaten by art

(09:55):
A la Via Miami bath Salt's face eater dude, but
he doesn't die. Arts then shot to death by police,
so Victoria Victoria lives like we knew that she was
still alive. We knew she didn't die because the film
opens with her giving an interview on a talk show

(10:16):
about horror ordeal with the Miles County massacre, right the
little local town that they are in. But the acting,
y'all is terrible. You can tell a low budget, You
can tell the camera quality isn't there. I just really
couldn't get into it. The gore and the kills, which
were done entirely with practical effects, were really fake and

(10:37):
bad looking. And I always feel strange talking about special
effects in horror movies because I sound like a total psychopath, Like, damn,
it didn't really look like her intestines were being ripped out.
I am upset but it does make a difference for
believability when you can see the rubber and prosthetics, you know,
kind of flopping around on the ground. There's one particular
scene in Terrifier where someone's head is cut off and

(11:00):
you see the rubber the bottom of the you know,
on the neck, like it's a rubber head, and you
see the rubber on the neck you know where it
doesn't It's just very clear and not like I ness
this again, I'm not insane. I don't necessarily want to
see a beheading, but it just makes it comical, you
know what I mean, And it does make a difference.

(11:21):
There's one scene in particular that's considered kind of the
climax of the Gore. I guess you could say, where
a girl is strung upside down and then cut in
half with a hack saw like upside down going through
her hohouha, with a hack saw all the way down
through her head. Everything is shown and it was pretty gnarly,

(11:42):
but again not really realistic, believable, low budget bad acting.
But the film made it smark nonetheless, and Art quickly
became a front runner for it to become a new
iconic corri villain there was clearly going to be a
Terrifier too, So Terrifier two came out in two, and
it's probably my favorite of the three. It had a

(12:04):
massively upgraded budget, but still a meager two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. Art Is somehow resurrected and returns to
Miles County, New York to exact his revenge. We also
pick up with a new set of characters. We have
teenage siblings Sienna Shaw played by Laura Lavera and her
younger brother Jonathan, who was obsessed with Artha Clown, and

(12:29):
Terrifier two is really where the lore of Artha Clown
is established. We now know that more or less possessed
by a demon or he's demonic. There it's Halloween, of course,
and it just kind of sets the stage. We learn
a few more tidbits. So in Terrifier two, Sienna is

(12:49):
finalizing her costume for Halloween. It's a feminine angel like
warrior costume that her father had designed, and he also
passed down an actual sword to her before he died.
And Sienna and Jonathan have a really kind of frail,
intense relationship with their mother, Barbara. You know, she plays

(13:10):
the exhausted, overwhelmed single mother and no one really gets along,
but she loves her kids. You know, she's not Rebell.
Let's just say that needless to say. You know, as
arts as resurrected. He makes his presence known pretty quickly.
And Sienna has a dream sequence. It's a crazy dream sequence,
and it shot like a children's show or commercial, and

(13:33):
they're singing. It's a bunch of adults dressed as children
and a couple actual children too, singing about the clown cafe.
And it's more or less just Sienna, you know, picking up.
I guess like her and Art sharing a connection, and
she has the dream about the clown cafe. So in
this dream sequence, they're talking and singing, almost like a

(13:53):
children's show. And Art shows up and kills everyone except
for Sienna. I mean, he puts razorblae in cereal and
kills like a six year old boy who eats it.
He sets people on fire with a flamethrower. He takes
out a gun and most people down. Some people get
like hung up on things and suffocate. I mean, it's

(14:16):
really graphic and ridiculous. It's a bloodbath. The Siena wakes
up and eventually she and her friend Ali go to
the local costume shop and that's where they actually encounter
Art for the first time. I mean, Art is acting
all ridiculous. He's just kind of like leering and staring
at them. But then he goes over to a sunglasses
rack and starts putting on googly eye glasses, you know

(14:39):
with the eyeballs on the springs that come way out
and stuff. And then he waves at them and smiles,
and I mean it's funny, you know what I mean.
And one of the iconic still shots from Terrifier Too
is Art the clown wearing the daisy sunglasses. I mean,
it's hilarious. I actually have a little collectible of that
because it's just too good. But it's a yeah, that's

(15:06):
where they meet him. Art ends up killing the vendor,
and then following somehow Ali Sienna's friend home, he poses
as a fake trigger trader, you know, keeps knocking on
her door and she's like, gtfo, this is ridiculous, and
then he breaks in and brutalizes her and what is
one of the most notorious horror movie deaths, and it's

(15:27):
considered incredibly difficult to watch by most people. And I'm
gonna paraphrase here. Basically, Damian Leone wanted to top the Hacksauce
scene of the first film, and Terrifier two is being
shot during the pandemic, so he I assume channeled all
of his pandemic boredom into the script and that kill

(15:49):
scene was created. So I'm going to read directly from
the Terrifier wiki and this is what happens to Ali
in the film. If this here's something you can't handle,
Terrifier franchise is probably not for you. Ahem. That night,
Ali is getting ready for Meg and Melanie's party. After

(16:10):
finishing applying her eye shadow, she glances at her witch
costume before returning to doing her makeup. Suddenly, Ali hears
the sound of glass shattering downstairs. Is Alie exits her
bedroom to go downstairs and investigate. She gets a phone
call from Sienna, though Ali does not hear the ring tone.
Alie gets downstairs and finds her back door glass shattered.
Allie jumps at seeing Art the clown now inside her home.

(16:34):
She sees Art walk over to the sink and casually
drink a glass of water before he grabs some kitchen
scissors and a scalpel. Art makes a cutting gesture with
the scissors and Ali flees. Art appears before her on
the way to the stairs. She runs up to her bedroom.
Alie attempts to stop Art by knocking over her shelf
before him, but is unsuccessful. However, this doesn't do much,

(16:57):
as Art easily climbs over it. Art grabs her by
her robe and slams her onto her bed. Art grabs
Ali by her hair and pulls her upward, before slicing
the left side of her face vertically and pulling her
hair so she'd bleed more. Art lets go of Ali
and she falls to the floor and crawls over to
her vanity before being grabbed again by her hair. Art

(17:19):
yanks her upright and forces her to look in the mirror.
Art Art yanks her upright and forces her to look
at herself in the mirror as he slices her scalp
off slowly with the scissors while Ali screams in pain.
After cutting off half of her scalp, he rips it
entirely off, which reveals Ali's skull cap. Art slams Ali

(17:40):
onto her bed once more and flays her back. He
stabs Ali a few times before ripping off the skin
of her back, revealing her flesh and spine. Art then
grabs Ali's left arm and places it into a foreign position,
breaking it. Art flails her broken forearm a few times
before ripping it clean. Art rolls Ali over and grabs

(18:02):
her right arm before vertically ripping her right hand in
half down to the forearm as Allie's eyes roll back
while she's screaming from the pain. Art then slices Allie
six times, splattering blood throughout her room, before happily skipping
away and returning downstairs. Thinking Ali is finally gone. Ali,
thinking Art is finally gone, Ali rolls herself onto the

(18:25):
bed and onto the carpet, where she crawls over to
her phone. She hears the sound of a phone call
from Sienna and moans in pain. Ali crawls to the
phone before Art returns to her bedroom. He douses an
entire gallon container of bleach onto her before throwing the
empty bottle to the side to pour and sprinkle salt
all over her body. He then rubs more salt into

(18:47):
her back wounds before ripping the left side of her
face off, revealing her skull. Her screams echoing through the
empty house. So yeah, I guess you can say that's
kind of brutal, but that is, I guess the big scene.
If you were on Reddit or social media or anything

(19:08):
like that. When word of Terrifier three came out, everyone
just wanted to know does it beat the bedroom scene.
This is quite literally referred to as the bedroom scene
by pretty much everyone who's ever seen it. It is
pretty rough.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Now.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
There's also a character in Terrifier two called the Pale Girl,
and she's a very demonic and freakish looking little girl
around the age of ten who hangs out with Art.
Only he can see her, and she has diarrhea and
shits in the floors of laundrym mats. I mean, that's
basically all you know. Jonathan sees Art and the Pale
Girl at his school one day. He's in high school.
He's you know there. He walks down the hallway and

(19:43):
sees them playing with a dead possum eating it's entrails,
and he tells everyone, I saw arth clown. I saw
arth clown. D Da Da da da, And no one
believes him, and you know, the school accused him of
being the one playing with possum. He's no, I didn't
do it, but he got sent home anyway. Now, well,
as Jonathan was obsessed with Art, he discovered in reading

(20:04):
his late father's journals, he found a newspaper article that
showed that the little Pale girl the little Demon. There
is an exact resemblance to Art's first victim, a girl
named Emily Crane. So hold that into your pocket. So Sienna,
at that point, it's Halloween evening. She departs for the
Halloween party with her friends and Jonathan, who was grounded

(20:25):
by their mother. You know, he's basically screwed. Art shows up,
kills Barbara, takes Jonathan the sword, and then sets out
for the Old Terrifier attraction at a local amusement park. Siera,
Sienna goes to the party. You know, she's her friend
doses her with Molly with scy she's super high, and

(20:46):
then she basically realizes she needs to find Jonathan. I'm
paraphrasing a lot of this, y'all, but she needs to
go find Jonathan, so she and her friends go to
the theme park. Of course, Art comes out and murders
her friends, and then it is a fight for survival.
So she finds Jonathan and then she in her you
know warrior costume and art battle. It's gory, it's brutal,

(21:11):
it has pretty great action sequence like this teenage girl
fighting this demonic clown, and it's actually really great. Art
stabs Sienna with her father's sword that ends up throwing
her into a portal to Hell. She once kind of
again goes into the clown cafe world. She ends up dying,
but is resurrected because of her father's sword and the

(21:31):
power that it has, which we have no idea why.
We don't know who or what her father was, the
connection to Art, why you know any of this. So
Sienna ends up decapitating Art, and she and Jonathan appear
to be safe. The little pale Girl, the little demonic
shitter as I call her, arrives, picks up Art's decapitated head,

(21:52):
and then Sienna and Jonathan leave as she watches them.
Terrifier two ends at a mental hospital where someone is
humming the tune to the Clown Cafe. Triple h is
actually in this movie, you know, the wrestler. He actually
plays a nurse at the mental hospital, and we learn

(22:14):
in the sequence that Victoria, the lone survivor from the
first Terrifier film, she's been institutionalized. I mean her face
is all fucked up. I mean it looks like something
ate her entire face. Right, So she's not doing so well,
and she's obviously incredibly mentally ill for you know, as
well as some other reasons. But the camera pans to
her room and she's writing Vicky you know, plus art,

(22:36):
Vicky Heart Art and other random Vicinity obscenities on the
wall with her own blood, and she gives a very
bloody birth to Art's living head, like his actual headhead
that we see, right. Her eyes then start to glow yellow.
Finn end scene and Terrifier two is my favorite in

(22:57):
the franchise personally. The acting is way better r and
Lavera is amazing as Sienna. I mean, she's the final girl,
and if you're familiar with horror films, there's a phenomenon
and archetype called the final girl, and basically she's generally
the only character to survive and ends up being a
total badass and some showdown with a horror villain.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Right.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
We have Ripley from Alien, we have Sally Hartesy from
Texas Chainsaw Massacre. We have Nancy from Nightmare on Elm Street,
Laurie Strode from Halloween, What's Our Face from Hell Racer,
Christy Cotton, Like that is part of something that's so
much fun in horror movies. Is the final Girl? Right,
you really want to root for someone, and in Terrifier

(23:39):
you really do start to root for Sienna. She's a
great actress. She's done really really well. She emotes and
she just looks the part, you know what I mean.
So I personally really really love that that part. So
let's quickly touch on Terrifier three. Terrifier three had an
even bigger budget, y'all. I mean I'm talking two million dollars,

(24:02):
two million dollar budget, and it picks up now two
million dollar budget and it's already made sixty five million
dollars of the box office. Some people got very very
rich off of this movie, and clearly there's going to
be a fourth. But Terrifier three picks up basically right
where the second one leaves off. After being beheaded by

(24:24):
Sienna Art's headless, decapitated body. You know, the little demon
girl took his actual head, but that left him to
capitate it. So Art ends up killing a police officer
who responds to that incident, and then he wears the
police officer's head so that he can travel to the
asylum where Victoria had just given birth to his actual head,

(24:47):
and they kill the staff and then flee to an
abandoned house and then eventually go dormant for a few
years a couple. I'm not going to ruin it for
you or give you too many pieces, but I will
s say this if you have any sort of X
or issues or limits with horror films and violence Minu's animals.

(25:12):
I can seriously watch anything and anyone get killed or
anything happen, anything happen to a human being, but if
you even thump or kicking a dog like I will
just fall out. So minus the animals. If yours as children,
Terrifier three may not be for you. Whereas you don't
actually see children get killed, you certainly hear the I

(25:32):
believe the subtitles squelching, and you also see the visual aftermath.
So something for those of you who are really triggered
by violence and children. So basically, Terrifier three follows Art
and Victoria after they come out of their dormancy period,
and it's now five years later at Christmas time, Sienna

(25:54):
had been institutionalized, she comes out and then basically all
hell breaks loose. I'm not gonna I consider giving you
some more tidbits, but I'm not going to. All I
will say is just some keywords of glass Shard, masturbation,
Gerbil Richard, gear, bombs, and children. I mean there it's wild.

(26:21):
I mean this movie is wild. And like I said,
I'm not going to go into explicit detail. I said
I would give limited spoilers because it is still only
like what three weeks in theaters. But suffice it to say,
for many people, there is one kill scene in particular
that is going to rival the brutality of Ali's death
and Terrifier two, and overall, I really did like Terrifier three.

(26:43):
It's hilarious at times. Again, Thornton is always incredible as
art and he just chews and steals every single scene
he's on. The kills are ridiculous and over the top.
I think I forgot the exact number, but I think
the kill count was like twenty six or twenty eight
or something like that by the end of it. And
because of that, it did feel a little drawn out.

(27:05):
I feel like it traded impact like Ali's death. In
Terrifier two, we actively felt bad for Ali, like it
was heartbreaking, right seeing a girl get brutalized like that.
And we'd had a good amount of well not good amount,
but a decent amount of character development to know, Hey,
she's friends with Tara and they love each other, you know,
and da da da da dah. But Terrifier three is

(27:26):
just it almost felt like they just tried to get
as many kills in the running time as humanly possible.
The gore this time looks very good, very realistic. For
the most part. The script really continues to provide more
tidbits of lore and explanations for who and what Art is.
I'm not going to ruin those or explain more, but

(27:46):
it definitely provides a little bit of a fuller picture
in terms of who the Pale Girl was. In Terrifier two,
the Pale Girl was one of my favorite characters because
she was just so freaky looking. She is not in
Terrifier three. Victoria kind of takes over that role, and
you understand why. But yeah, I mean, it's a really

(28:07):
fun franchise. I mean, it's needless, it's mindless core, it's
art just looks cool. It's a nice little mixture of funny.
I have a lot of friends who have seen it
already in theaters, and their theaters were ruckus, like they
were laughing really hard and cringing and moaning. Mine was silent,
except for maybe a couple funny periods where people laughed.
So it wasn't a very engaging audience. But yeah, I mean,

(28:30):
have you guys seen it? Do you plan to see it?
I want to know. I mean, like I said, it's
made over sixty five million dollars in the box office.
It is the highest grossing, highest grossing unrated film in history.
And Art the Clown, I would say, guys that he's
officially made it in the pantheon of top four villains.
I mean, you can legit find merchandise at every Spenser's

(28:51):
Walmart Hot topic Spirit Halloween Sore in America. And yes,
I said Walmart. You can walk into any Walmart and
find Art the Clown stuff. So I would say that
it has become a pretty large commercial success. Let's see
other than that, beyond terrifier, I've been watching Ryan Murphy's
latest attempt at putting together a cohesive storyline, Grotesquery, and

(29:15):
it airs on FX and stars Nissi Nash and some others,
and I mean others because none of them are really
noteworthy irrelevant. Nash plays a detective who is hunting a
serial killer who appears to be taunting her. There's a
nun who appears to be out of her goddamn mind.
There's a crazy priest. That's all I'm gonna say, but
I will say that Nissi Nash is fucking incredible. I've

(29:37):
never been It's been a very long time since I've
been impacted by a performance like I have hers from
a TV show. I think the last time was True
Detective season one, and that's why I Originally I watched
the first five episodes of Grotesqueree, and I'm not going
to finish it. Initially, it felt very much like a
good police or detective procedural, almost like true crime or

(29:59):
almost true detective, with like a veneer, a thin veneer
of American horror story over it. And unsurprisingly, because I
mean Ryan Murphy touched this, it derailed into madness and
confusion or at the halfway point around episode five. So
I haven't finished it yet, and it's so disappointing. You know,
I love the first five or so seasons of American

(30:21):
horror Story. I feel like Ryan Murphy starts off strong
and then includes too many plot points. Everything becomes a
discombobulated mess. Nothing is ever cohesive, so many unanswered questions,
and from what I'm hearing again, I haven't finished it.
Grotesque ri is more extreme of the same of that.
But yeah, I mean it has Taylor's boyfriend in it,

(30:43):
Travis freaking Kelsey is and it's starting in episode three,
and honestly, that ruined it for me entirely. He is
the worst actor I've ever seen. It is almost the
stereotype of putting. I'm not saying he's stupid, but you know,
the hi, I tab it like you know the hi,
I'm Travis this, I am a nurse. I am here too.

(31:04):
I mean, the dialogue is legitimately that stiff and bad
with him. So you have people who literally should win
Emmys in powerful performances and then Travis Kelcey coming in
just ruining it all. You know what's the Southern phrase.
He's like a turd in a punch bowl. It is
just so glaringly bad. So if you disagree with me,
or you've liked it, or you want more of it,

(31:26):
you're excited for season two. If I should finish it,
let me know, because oh, y'all, I can't. I guess.
Lastly here, I also just recently watched This is the
Zodiac Speaking on Netflix, and as so many shows and
documentaries have done before, it revolves around the potential identity

(31:46):
of the person behind the murders of at least five
people in the San fran area in the late sixties. Now,
its focus is a man by the name of Arthur
Lee Allen, and he was the only suspects in the
killings named by a police so police thought that this
man could have been it, but they were never able
to prove it. And it's a really good documentary. I mean,

(32:08):
it interviews many of the now adults that he taught
when he was a fourth grader. But here's the thing.
It's a good documentary, but it's basically a documentary on grooming.
He was actively grooming most of the female children around him,
and he did, in fact end up getting convicted of
sex crimes against children in the seventies and he was
incarcerated for some time. But what I can't stand is

(32:30):
the documentary uses circumstantial evidence to the nth degree, basically
trying to paint the picture that he had to be
Zodiac because the killing stopped while he was in prison,
but he came out of prison and they didn't keep
going in that nature. You know, Arthur Lee Allen was
an avid scuba diver. He had a Zodiac branded diving watch,
and the documentary is like, don't don't uh had to

(32:54):
be Zodiac. But literally at that time, you know, people
have come out and said everybody had a Zodiac branded
why especially in the Bay area, and especially if you
were a diver, that meant nothing. He apparently said some
creepy things to some people, you know, hearsay, I mean,
it never really made the connection. The documentary also falsified
the narrative behind a police report where Arthur Lee Allen

(33:15):
was supposedly pulled over by police right near a crime
scene on the beach and he supposedly had a bloody
knife in the car. He supposedly told the police officer, Oh, sorry,
I just killed a check in and I'm you know whatever.
No proof of that in that interaction. Alan's home was
raided multiple times. The first raid it was a trailer.

(33:36):
They found small dead animals in jars that were in
trails in the fridge and freezer. I mean, obviously some
really weird Jeffrey dahmershit. And they also the second time
they raided his house, found some pipe bombs in the
carall space. Obviously, obviously the man was unhinged. But they
never found anything connecting him to the crimes that were
supposedly perpetrated by the Zodiac, and they never did. The DNA,

(34:01):
even pulled from underneath the stamp on one of Zodiac's letters,
did not match Allen's either. Again, almost purely circumstantial evidence
and no physical evidence to match, which leads me to ask,
do we really need more shows about the identity of
the Zodiac, Jack the Ripper, any other murderers from Era's

(34:22):
pass where we're probably never going to get the answer, Like,
come on, folks, you know, until we have a one
hundred percent for sure match, I'm just over the speculation
and grasping its straws here. I mean, you guys know
that I was super interested in the East Area rapist,
Golden State killer, right, I mean, he's to me one
of the most terrifying killers in all of history. And

(34:45):
we didn't get four thousand documentaries about him. We never
got all these documentaries. Police were working in the background,
you know, the genetic database, they went through the family
genetic genealogists forensic geneologists rather went through the family tree,
ended up finding him getting his DNA from a piece
of trash, and boom it was solved. What forty years later.

(35:08):
I just feel like, until there's some sort of movement
or identification or something, I'm just so tired at documentaries
that speculate with flimsy, circumstantial evidence. It literally drives me
up a wall beyond that, you know, as I said,
you know, going through a breakup, just trying to pass
the time and stuff. I started watching a Discovery of Witches,

(35:29):
which is like Twilight for adults. And I'm really ashamed
to admit this, but this is a safe place here,
right that. It's a fun little show basically about this
you know, witch Diana Bishop, who isn't fully aware of
her powers. She's a successful professor. She comes to Oxford
and this whole mystery unravels, and sure there are some

(35:52):
romantic elements and this, that and the other. I honest
to god, I'm at a point where I just fast
through it fast forward through them because ew. But the
story Relign itself is actually really good. It's based on
the books The All Soul's Trilogy by Diana Harkness I think,
or Deborah Harkness. Diana or Deborah Harkness I believe her
name is. But yeah, I mean it's entertaining, it's mindless,

(36:12):
and the storyline's kind of good. The words really terrible
acting and dialogue, but I don't even know why I'm
singing its praises. It's something to pass the time. Don't
judge me. But yeah, I mean that's pretty much all
that I have been through and done in the last
two months. So again, I'm sorry this episode came out
so late. I am getting my shit together finally, I'm

(36:33):
finally feeling better. I hope my voice will be fully
returned by the end of this week, and then we
will continue and I'm really excited again. I'm really excited
to tie up the effing Chris chan series so I
never have to think and or speak or hear about
him ever again. And then we're going to delve into
the Lori Valo case. More than Moscow for is moving along.

(36:54):
There's a lot of drama that's been going on with
the Delphi murders on top of everything else that's going
on in the world right now. I know the election
is tomorrow, guys. Whichever side of the political spectrum you're
lying on, I know that some of us feel like
it's more important than others. I think all of you
know where my politics lie. Either way, the sun is
going to come up tomorrow and we will figure out

(37:15):
a way to be okay. But I'm a lot of
people I know are freaking out. I have a best
y date tomorrow night and we're gonna watch all of
the returns and stuff come in. So I am, you know,
pot meat kettle. But I promise everything will be okay.
But that's it for today, guys. Again you're listening to

(37:36):
We Saw the Devil. You can follow the podcast that
We Saw the Double podcast on Instagram, and if you
so choose, you can follow me in my life at
Robin Underscore w STD. New website is coming soon. I promise.
I have not worked on it for the last two
months because I've basically been dying. But we're gonna get
back up and running and I look forward to seeing
you guys in a couple of days. Until next crime,