September 30, 2025 • 34 mins
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Welcome to another super cut! A super cut is a combination of all our thoughts on a specific show from previous episodes, cut together into one long episode. So, if you’ve been listening week by week, you may want to skip this one. But if you’re new, or love listening to Hope and Daniel as they discuss their favorites shows, then join them as they discuss Hacks Season 4.
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Episode Transcript
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UNKNOWN (00:00):
you
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
Hey everybody and welcome to We Watch TV.
It is the podcast about the TVthat we watch.
I am Daniel and this is aSupercut.
If you're new to the podcast andyou don't know what a Supercut
is, it's when we take ourconversations about a specific
show that have taken place overvarious podcast episodes and we
cram them all into one Supercutso that you can listen to
everything you want to knowabout that show and that season
(00:34):
all in one place.
And in this episode we'retalking all about Hacks Season
4.
We started off our conversationabout Hacks in episode 102,
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
We Are
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Cooked.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
What is Ryan saying on The Office?
Woof.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
I finished the first three seasons of Hacks.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
And I got to rewatch it again in all its glory.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
And then we have also watched the first three
episodes of the new season fourthat are out.
I agree with you.
It's a very good show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Excellent show.
You had seen a little bit, bitsand pieces, some episodes with
me, and I feel like you thoughtit was funny.
But now that you've watched itall together and you have that
connection with the characters,did those episodes, like, feel
differently to you now like nowthat you know Deborah you know
Ava you know Marcus like didthat come off
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
like yeah absolutely like you know always missing
those character developmentmoments you know doesn't give
you the full scope of thecharacters yeah I am going to be
frustrated speaking of theseason we have now yes and the
knowledge of we are at leastgetting a fifth season
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
remember guys we are spoiler podcast we didn't say
that earlier so oopsie
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
that I'm going to be frustrated I think we've talked
about this if season five is isthe same kind of format that
season 2 and season 4 arelooking to be which is in
conflict with those two with thetwo main characters Ava and
Debra Vance because this isseason 4 so far has been mostly
a like season 2 conflict on likeramped up to a thousand so the
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
season 2 conflict was that Ava had sent out those
emails about Debra then eventhough she took it back because
she was very upset and angryabout their father in season one
so deborah said she was going tosue her so there was a little
bit of tension then deborah camearound but she'd still make the
jokes like yeah well i'm goingto take you for everything you
own and obviously you know shedidn't sue her at the end this
(02:52):
one was a little bit differentbecause the way season three
ended was deborah basically saidi'm gonna she she gets the gig
to be the late night host andshe told ava like you're going
to be the head writer and thenof course deborah as usual got
paranoid like what if they takethis away from me again i don't
have it gets in her head andthen screws ava over lies to Ava
(03:12):
and says they they said theywant to go with their guy but
you can be like the second incommand well Ava sees Helen
Hunt's character who's like thenetwork head or something out
and about and she's like hey Ijust want like you know like
I've I'm good like I can beshe's like oh I told Debra she
can hire whoever she wants soit's not only the screwing over
it's the line and Ava wentscorched earth and basically is
extorting Debra let's call itwhat it is
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Debra did wrong but what Ava's doing is not right so
this is a much more elevatedconflict but I agree with what
you're saying I can't take everyseason of we have the tension we
have the conflict we get over itwe have growth and then we fight
again there needs to be somebalance those two are always
gonna I feel like be at odds insome way because they're so
alike they do butt heads andthat's part of the charm of
(03:56):
those characters is that you cantell that they are very
emotionally connected to eachother and the people and I'm not
saying they're not romantic Ithink well that ship is fun in
theory I don't think it's gonnahappen I but what I mean by like
so emotionally connected withtheir story souls is that they
are so much alike they sharesuch that bond and connection
but they can hurt each othermore than anybody else and I
(04:17):
think you're seeing that playout and I really hope that
they're gonna cool it and I feellike they are like now they know
in catching up in season fourthat basically they were told
like hey this is our last ditcheffort or we might have to pull
late night all together becauseI mean I don't know about I
don't know any of my friendsthat watch I think one I think
Kaylin does I think she is adevoted to watching Seth she
might be the only one I know andI don't know if she watches it
(04:39):
every night now that she's gotthe children the kiddos or if
she DVRs it or what but mostpeople I know they only watch it
when they see like a clip onYouTube like do you know anybody
personally like under the age oflike 45 that watches late night
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
no
SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
like I don't know anybody who watches SNL either
like I'll see stuff on my TikTokand I'll be like oh that's funny
like this skit but like
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
if you're out there let us
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
know do you watch this let me know your age your
demographic
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
so
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
they have that they gotta put their personal crap
aside and they have to see whatthey can do to
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
save the show now the we're several episodes into
season four I can tell you thetrajectory of this season though
this season ends with that firstepisode I
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
think so too
SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
and then so season five is going to be maybe a time
yeah maybe a time jump and we'regonna see what's going on
extended from here this seasonis going to be just the run-up
to the final episode if I were awriter of the show and I'm
thinking about it myself if Iwere gonna get real artsy and
stupid with it the last episodeof this season would just be the
(05:40):
show that goes on TV nothingelse like just what we what we
as as actual viewers of latenight would see from the from
that perspective I don't knowthat they'll do
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
that do that because I'm pretty sure I saw some clips
of like Rosie O'Donnell filminglike as like herself as like a
guest yeah I think I readsomething about that so maybe
maybe she'll be the last episodeI don't know we're like Deborah
interviews Rosie I'm pretty sureI read that maybe somebody you
know sometimes people are wrongon reddit but I think pretty
sure I read that I I thinkthough that like if the plan
really is to get five seasons, Ithink that Debra and Ava aren't
(06:16):
going to continue to argue asfiercely, but I'm not sure we're
going to have the conflict.
I don't think they're going tobe as close as they were in
season three.
Personally, I think you're, Ithink they're going to have to,
you know, I think that we'llstill have, I think we'll still
have fun.
Debra Ava moments like, likewhere they're at the spa where
she got like her facelift orwhatever.
I think we'll have some stufflike that, but I'm not sure.
(06:38):
One of the things that I like somuch about season three was how
close they got like they're atthe hiking episode right I told
you that was my favorite episodeof season three I'm not sure
we're gonna get that yet in thisseason if they're planning for a
five and then maybe we'll mendthe relationship but maybe we
won't
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
I don't know because I'll tell you right now I still
think that what Deborah saidlike right now they're coming
the arc is they're coming backtogether because they've
realized they have to you knowthey've had the talking to from
the network head now that HRperson has to be in the room
with them like they've had theirtalking to and they're gonna
come together but at thebeginning of this This season,
it's the end of episode one whenthey were at the photo shoot.
(07:14):
Deborah said, I'm never going toforgive you for this.
And we might go on for years andyears and years.
She didn't forgive
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
her sister.
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
Yeah, but the moment this ride, she said, the moment
this ride is over, we are done.
And I will never speak to youagain.
I hope
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
that doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
I'm not going to say that's going to happen.
But I think that is going to besomething that we see come out
at the end of this season.
And I wouldn't be surprised ifwe get...
if we see some shades of that inseason five.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
Because it broke my heart when Midge and Susie
weren't speaking to each otherfor a little bit.
Because Midge blamed Susie andMaisel.
Sorry, jumping ahead to anothercomedy show set in another
decade.
Midge blamed Susie for Joelgoing to jail, right?
Yes.
Yeah, because he kind of fell onthe sword.
But then they eventually didbecome friends again in the end,
(08:05):
which was nice.
Because I felt like whileobviously I did like, sorry,
sorry, I like Midge and LennyBruce.
the actors had chemistry off thecharts I don't care that was
historically or
SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
inaccurately
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
no what I'm saying though is the love story of that
show was Midge and Susieultimately and I think the love
story of this is even if it'snot romantic is Ava and Debra
but that scene that you'rereferencing can we just talk
about how beautifully acted thatwas I feel like Hannah she is
the writer that plays Ava andshe's a writer I believe also
for this show and in real lifeher acting skills are I feel
(08:38):
like I feel like she's alwaysbeen a good actor there have
improved like her face actingjust her eyes and that smile
when they were doing thatmagazine shoot I feel like this
might be we need to get her anEmmy like she it was so like I
was so impressed by how both ofthem did that scene but
especially her like it was sogood now you like Shooter
McGavin and Debra right Marty
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
if I saw a realistic ship for Debra it's with him
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
I'm just not sure that Debra's meant to be
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
no I don't know that that's the show but but
certainly of all the mencharacters in her life he's the
one that sees her most for whoshe really is because they had
that golf episode
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
oh yeah from season
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
where she were season three where she was like
trying to show off for the bignetwork owner the conglomerate
owner whatever that guy is butshe was like playing like she
didn't know how to golf and hewas like what are you doing
because he knows she's betterthan that
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
you know she's a ball buster yeah
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
yeah so he knew that that just was not her and so I
like I said I this show is notabout the ship
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
please watch hacks even me even us giving a sport
you sports right now it's one ofthose shows that you don't
really you need to watch youneed to watch the dynamic
between the two because youwould like Daniel had a coming
back and forth and knew a littlebit and now that you have the
whole like you care about itmore you're more invested in
these characters now obviouslyseverance is still your best
thing going and I think while Ilove severance and thought that
(09:59):
was one of the best seasonfinales I've ever seen
ultimately where we differ isI'm always going to cling to a
little bit more funny eventhough severance can be funny
too that's why I have Hacks isdefinitely in my...
Well, I have to see how theseason plays out, but it's in my
conversation for Best ThingGoing.
While you might not agree withme, can you see why I would
think that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
If we compiled a list of shows that we would say,
these are the ones that are inthe running for the Best Thing
Going, and you put Hacks on thelist, I have zero argument
against you on why you would addthat at least to a short list,
for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
All right.
No question.
I'm looking forward to moreHacks.
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
We continued to talk about Hacks in episode...
Episode 103, Go See a Star War.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Anyway, do you want to talk about something current?
SPEAKER_00 (10:46):
Sure.
We've got two shows we'rewatching.
I don't know that we have muchto say about either of them.
You want to go with Hacks first?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
I was going to go with the other, but we'll do
Hacks.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Let's do Hacks first.
I was completely wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
Episode 4 or 5?
5.
I was
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
completely wrong in my prediction that the season
was going to go up to the firstshow and end there because this
episode they just did the firstshow.
So I'm done making predictionson where they're going to go.
I'm out.
I retire.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
What about Deborah's anxiety?
And then she's like, I'm nothaving a panic attack.
I'm having a cardiac event.
But then I think she went to thedoctor and everything was fine.
When she's at the doctor at theend of the episode, it's because
she was in the club and that guyput like a popper in her face.
She hit her head on a bar, whichthe network's going to have to
(11:36):
talk to her about how she'sgoing to be more careful going
out in public.
I think that's going to
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
be the best.
security guards at some point so
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
yes well we know too that like with her and Ava they
have the HR person in the roomso the network's gonna put that
on her I think the network'sgonna start censoring their
jokes a little more I think thenetwork's gonna come down about
like hey you're not you can'tjust go out like the two of you
used to so I think that's gonnabe a lot of our conflict is the
(12:03):
network itself and they knowthey have that pressure that
they have to remain number one Iread a theory that they're gonna
pull a and leno and they'regonna take deborah off the air
at the end of the season and theguy that she came on to replace
is gonna get better and he'sgonna come back i think that'd
be silly if they did that forthe show i wonder personally if
(12:24):
they're gonna go to a thingwhere deborah has wanted this so
much she's wanted redemption forwhat was taken from her that
she's gonna realize like maybe ididn't want this at all and i
want to do something elsesomething different where i'm
not being held back i don't knowwhat do you think
SPEAKER_00 (12:40):
i I just got done telling you I'm not trying to
predict any more of the seasonbecause I was just so like just
horridly wrong earlier.
I don't think a Conan situationis right because I feel like if
they were going to do that wewould have met that guy already
and we didn't like even lastseason when she talked to him it
was just a phone conversation sothey would be I think we would
(13:02):
need him characterized a littlebit more to make him as the
villain he would end up being ifthat were the case.
I definitely think that you'reon to something there with now
that we've gotten past the firstepisode I think we're going to
see the grind of a night of adaily show and what it takes to
(13:22):
actually put that show on fivenights a week and I think you're
right I think at some point thattoll might start to come and
Debra realize was this what Iactually wanted or this what I
thought I deserved yeah
SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
I do like that we got more of that Debra Ava
dynamic somehow they ended upwatching the first episode
together because she hadforgotten to remove Ava from her
emergency contact and they endedup watching it in a hospital
waiting room I like that becausethey're both proud of the work
they're doing even if they'restill at odds so that was just
(13:57):
and you could tell they so badlywanted to hold each other's hand
in that moment but they're justboth resisting I've seen a thing
that's like every season we endwith Debra screwing Ava over
somehow or Ava being upsetthey're like what if we end this
season if five is the last whereAva is the one that's not going
(14:17):
to be forgiving or something I'mlike that would be an
interesting shift and it wouldshow character growth for better
or for worse for both of thosecharacters worse for Ava if
she's going to be more likeDebra maybe some growth for
Debra I don't know what we'regoing to do I would love I don't
want to see it end where theynever talk to each other or have
a sad ending I want them to bothcome around but I think they're
(14:39):
going to have to grow up alittle bit little bit both of
them
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
no I agree the hacks conversation continued in
episode 104 the righteousgemstones finale hacks season 4
episode 5
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
we are halfway through the season there are 10
episodes of hacks another showout of like 12 and this that was
a that was a tough episode towatch
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
yeah it really was
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
if your team Ava Deborah at least their
connection relationship againnot romantic but just I felt
like we had kind of peeled itback a little bit and we were
starting to get some like we hadmade some progress in terms of
mending their relationship andnow I feel like it's so thrown
far back and this time Ava isthe one I'm a little bit more
(15:24):
upset with
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
but I mean she was a little bit more of the
provocateur in this case
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
honestly when you've been burned so many times yeah
what you gonna do so our wholearc now is network what are we
gonna do for the network thenetwork wants this they need to
get rating They go to a focusgroup.
I could never stand to be in afocus group because I would
absolutely do what Debra did andI would absolutely do what
Leslie Knope did.
None of the positives would hitme.
(15:49):
I would just focus absolutely onevery single negative thing.
Tell Ron I'm really good atbowling.
It would not be great for me.
Anytime I get some type of,let's say I get a 98 on a test.
When I was in school, I'd belike, well, why did you deduct
two points?
Please tell me what I did wrongand how I can improve.
in therapy laughing
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Anyway, one of them criticized Deborah's hair, so
she puts on the worst extensionsI've ever seen for a cooking
segment.
I guess that mom they did, thatdance mom they brought in, too,
is like a real TikTok person.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, that they spoofed.
So they're trying to, like,appeal to a demographic, and
Ava's friends get in her headabout it because they're off
doing some project.
And I think Ava's having arealization like you're not
going to maybe get to do thehighbrow stuff you want to do
when you're the head writer on anetwork late night show that
(16:56):
you're going to have to strikethat balance.
It can't be all likepretentious.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
You have to appeal to a network TV wide audience.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:05):
You're going to have to have mass humor appeal to
everybody.
I thought Jimmy Kimmel playedhimself well.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
That was really funny.
I would love to
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
get more comedians
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
on there.
That was maybe the funniestthing of the episode was when
Jimmy just shows up out ofnowhere to threaten her.
Yeah, because Debra tried totake
SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
Kristen Bell.
SPEAKER_00 (17:22):
That was really funny.
They probably aren't going to,but I think it would be really
funny if they got Fallon andthey got Colbert to show up to
do similar things to threatenher.
I want
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Conan to show up since they keep referencing the
Conan debacle that we all livelife.
Team Conan forever, by the way.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Yeah, team Conan forever.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
Go, go, baby.
So Ava's got in her head aboutthat.
Debra, Debra, Debra, Debra.
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Oh, Debra.
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
Debra is going back to her QVC ways about wanting to
give the people what they want.
Like she's so scared to death.
She's going to lose this show.
She wants that.
So they're, they both are wrongin that aspect of how they're
treating it.
But this is where I did agreewith Debra a little bit.
Cause even Jimmy and Kayla weretelling Ava, like, Hey, we got
to get this TikTok person onhere.
(18:07):
That's, that's what people thinkis funny.
You got to appeal.
What is it like the moms?
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
Yeah.
And it went really well on theepisode when they did it.
So, and that made Ava evenworse.
And
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
then Ava, did try to take out the wine o'clock joke
which I did think was stupid andput her own joke in there and
Debra just completely was likeno and then they had a little
argument literally they're gonnahave to get it in check like
because that was in front of alive audience which I think you
have to like surrender yourphones for stuff like that
something correct me if I'mwrong so it's not gonna get out
that way I think and I do thinkyou sound like NDAs when you go
(18:39):
to filming maybe not for thatI'm sure you do I know you do
for like Bachelor live shows yousign NDAs and stuff but they
their little HR person that hadbeen following around trips and
falls, bust her mouth open andfinally just unleashed on both
of them.
It was like, you are bothhorrible.
So they're going to have to,they're going to have to figure
something out.
(18:59):
They're just so, they're thetype that when they work
together, it's great.
When they're at odds, it's toxicand horrible for everybody
around them.
And when they were out todinner, Ava is in a throuple
situation, something like that.
Deborah sees her and Deborah'sjust being Deborah kind of
making fun out of it.
But, but then was like, I'mgoing to order dessert from the
table.
Let's hang out.
(19:19):
I feel like Debra was actuallytrying to just have a nice time,
and that's where Ava was like,oh, we just work together.
SPEAKER_00 (19:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Debra was trying, I think, alittle bit, and Ava just wasn't
having it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
And for somebody like Debra, that's just going to
make it even harder for themnext time you hurt her like that
again.
I know they say they have afifth season planned, but this
season is rough.
It's rough for the people, butat the same time, same time they
are putting that realism inthere if you had such a fallout
like they did at the end ofseason three that's probably how
(19:54):
it would have played out i i'mi'm just i need them i need my
girls to at least have abreather to come together to be
their best they're at their bestwhen they work their magic
together but i don't know ifthis late night show is that and
i think that might be the arc ofthe season i don't know
SPEAKER_00 (20:13):
i agree i i would not be surprised if the Debra
not on the show anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Not on the late night
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
show.
Not on the late night showanymore, yeah.
And we wrapped up talking aboutHacks Season 4 in Episode 106,
Resting Nice Face.
Well, with that out of the way,we do have some television shows
that I watched with you.
First up here on the agenda isactually a season finale.
Hacks Season 4, final episode.
(20:43):
And it was kind of a...
anticlimactic kind of episodebut I kind of we've talked about
it and I think we both agreed itwas necessary because otherwise
this would have had to been thefirst episode of season five and
that wouldn't have worked reallywell I don't think
SPEAKER_01 (21:03):
and I feel like just to catch the listeners up I
don't think we've talked abouthacks the last couple podcasts
because we wanted to save it forthe end so I think the last time
we spoke on hacks Ava and Debrawere still at odds they were
able to put that behind themthem.
Ava had a massive crash out.
Debra realized basically thatshe had been being a horrible
person and that she wouldn't bewhere she was without Ava.
(21:26):
So their fences were mended.
We have them, you know, they'reback on track.
They're like, let's write theshow for each other.
I mean, I might have alreadysaid that in a previous podcast.
I don't remember.
Who knows?
And I'd say the episode beforethe finale was the big one.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
Yeah.
What happened was...
Helen Hunt's character, who waslike the executive over the
channel had been, yeah, Wendyhad been really on Debra to come
up with like a, her carpoolkaraoke equivalent, right?
Which we find out later, Wendythought that was a dumb idea
too, but that's just what yougot to do, right?
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
You got to play the game and you work.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
So she's so tough on it that, that Debra ends up
running into Bob Lipka, BobLipka, who owns the studio or
he's the CEO of everything, ofall the whole big conglomerate.
And she completely, Complains toBob about Wendy about that
specific situation.
Turn it around and suddenly thenext thing we know, Wendy's been
(22:26):
fired and Bob has taken over.
And
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
I don't think Debra wanted that to
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
happen necessarily.
I don't think that was theresult Debra was looking for,
but she also didn't seem likeshe was that upset by
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
it.
Yeah, I agree.
She was very Debra about it,like, oh well.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
So then the next episode we're seeing the studio,
Bob Lipka, has had them bring ona guest.
that's got some problematicissues that Ava is definitely
against.
Debra's not necessarily totallyagainst it, but she does, in the
taping of the show, ask him aquestion that his agents come
back and say, hey, we'd reallylike to cut that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
Because apparently they...
I always thought Late Night Showwas live.
It's not.
It's pre-taped.
I don't know why I stupidly...
I just always thought they wereall up that late.
I guess they're on the WestCoast, so I was like, they're
not that late.
But what, do they do it in theafternoon?
They do the tapings?
And that's how it is for all ofthem.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Yeah.
It's a live show, which we'llget to in a minute.
So that brings us to the liveshow.
Debra was doing a live after theOscars show.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Which was huge because they had gone to number
one.
They're the number one latenight show.
You got to put in that detail.
They were successful.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Bob also told Debra to fire Ava.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
Oh, yeah, because it turned out Ava saw her old
coworkers at a bar and kind ofmentioned, which they were
already doing a hit piece onthis particular actor that had
problematic texts anyway.
and Ava being Ava just openedher mouth about it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
And it sprung them into a censorship conversation.
And that's what led to Debratricked Ava into being out of
the studio so she wouldn't beable to stop her.
I was nervous.
And on live TV, Debra just laysout the studio head.
I keep saying studio headbecause I've got another show in
my head.
The executive on live air,right?
(24:13):
And then a couple other peopleconspire to keep it on the air
are long enough for her to getmost of her message out she of
course is fired
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Ava's watching this from the security thing because
they had Ava's badge andeverything terminated Debra
basically said this has been mydream job but you know this is
what's what's going on it was itwas a baller move
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
which leads us to our final episode of the season
where Debra basically hercontract says if she gets fired
she has a non-compete for 18months
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
which is a very normal thing and even like like
regular people's line of workslike I know that I had to ask
people before like do you have anon-compete when it comes to
like professional things likethat's an actual thing that
regular people it
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
shouldn't be but I'm not going to get
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
political you're not going to get but it is a thing
that exists for all and youwould think that they did
address that they're like didyou not read your contract she's
like well I thought I was nevergoing to have another job again
because I finally got my dreamjob that's why I didn't read
this contract because readingcontracts and litigation was
always something that like Debrawas into so I remember making a
comment to you like that's weirdto me that she wouldn't have
read that but so they theyclarified that and And okay, so
(25:18):
here we go.
Last episode.
The episode before that, episodenine was crazy.
Yeah.
Because it ended with them likeliterally like Thelma Louise-ing
it, like leaving the studiotogether and Bob Lipka at their
car being like, hey, you'refinished, lady.
So we had all that intensity andthen we pick up right with the
(25:39):
fallout and we have Debra superdepressed.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Yep.
She's visited different, like amillion different lawyers to try
and find her way out of thatcontract, but nobody can
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
you know what my favorite part of just showcasing
how depressed Debra was was yeahso back in Vegas when in they we
I don't think we saw her withthe fountain pop she was just a
fountain Diet Cokes it was justher thing it's the thing that
was highlighted in season one soit's just if you're a watcher of
the show you know that's a thingand I look at you and I'm like
oh my gosh I was like she'sdrinking bottle Diet Coke she
(26:11):
didn't go in because she's likein a convenience store and she
didn't get the fountain pop shegot the just a bottle so like
it's just little details thatwriters sprinkle in like that
that i really like um but thenthey decide they're like you
should she talks to we see martyagain
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
well this is if we saw him this season it was early
but i don't think we have yeah idon't think we have marty
convinces her to go to hawaii toone of his resorts
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
to chill
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
she decides to bring to bring ava along with her
except they don't actually go tohawaii she takes her to
singapore because Debra hasfound her own workaround from
the contract, which is that shecan, through a translator, do
her comedy in a Singapore casinoequivalent.
So she starts doing that, andshe's really, her jokes are her
(27:01):
old stuff.
Yeah, and
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
Ava's down for it at first.
They have a montage of themhaving fun, but you slowly start
to see Ava's character kind ofbreak, and you see Debra's
character just drinking more,phoning it in, falling asleep on
stage.
So while she's doing this,because she feels the need to
work it's not fulfilling her
SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
and then they almost had me why don't you tell us
what happened
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
i didn't believe it i did not believe this for one
second but so deborah and avahave a fight it's not nearly as
big of a fight as what they'vehad in the past
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
it wasn't their normal
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
but ava decides she's gonna go back to the
states yeah and so she goes toher room and when she wakes up
she's got like a million phonecalls and she finally gets on
the phone with the with herdeborah's agent and she's like
can can you check on Debra?
Because TMZ just published apost that she is dead.
And they went deep into veryserious music and Ava like
(27:55):
longingly running through thehallway.
And like they were working realhard from a production value
standpoint to make you thinkthis could actually be true only
to have when Ava gets to herhotel room and starts knocking
on the door.
And
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Debra's like, what?
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
Debra's alive.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:10):
She's basically just like hung over and laying in
bed.
You know why I think, I thinkwhen I'm really emotionally
invested in a show, it's easierfor a show to trick me because
some of my walls that I havebuilt up with other shows are
down but I also could see I likeI'm like what if you know we
season five I think wasannounced like two days before
the finale aired and I'm likewhat if they make season five
about because I think they'restill going to need to like at
(28:32):
some point Ava's going to haveto really strike out on her own
I feel like to be verysatisfying for us like obviously
the point of the show is herrelationship with Debra but I'd
also like to see Ava grow somein a different way like be
comfortable on her own so Ithought well what if they just
what if they I was like that's abold move what if they're really
doing this but I should haveknown better and then that it
(28:55):
took that Debra reading her likeobit or whatever that TMZ put up
to kind of sometimes I thinkDebra is the classic like
narcissistic type of person thatsometimes it takes just a real
kick in the butt to kind ofshake you out of a funk and it
took that for her to be likethis isn't because they said in
the obit that she killed latenight she's like I'm not going
(29:16):
to be remember that she's likelet's pack in let's get to work
let's go so I think we're led tobelieve that at least a couple
months had passed by that theywere in Singapore I don't think
like the full 18 months but youknow maybe a few months couple
months
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
few months Ava says at one point we've been here for
a couple months or something soyeah so time passed but not the
full 18 months so I fully expectseason 5 to pick up still in the
18 month period maybe a littlecloser to the end of it
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
kind of like what material what their next move is
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
and I'm really looking forward to it and I
think you and I at first we hadthat initial reaction of wow
that was a really just kind oflike anti-climatic like you said
kind of just slow finalecompared to the previous episode
but it fits because as a viewerI liked seeing that fall out and
I would read that means that wecan start season five not from
(30:07):
that depressive place not thatshe won't still be depressed but
oh
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
I think she's mad now
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
yeah now she's fired up she's mad and I think it's
just gonna be a little bit moredriven and I think that's a
really good way to pick up forthe new season because I you
know even when shows pick up onthe next day when you're waiting
months to see a show like we aresays viewers might be like oh
she should be over it but youknow what I mean like because
(30:33):
time has passed for us it's hardfor us to and I'm not saying
when I say us I don't mean likethe two of us I just mean like
viewers in general that arewatching these shows so I
thought I thought that was areally good move
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
all right question for you yes so we have reached
You, I didn't.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
what they do in Severance I like a funnier show
and I think that's kind of whythe first couple episodes of
Hacks was hard for me to getthrough because that fight just
felt more intense also I watchedHacks differently than I had on
previous seasons I had to do theweekly release which I think
makes the feud stretch outlonger and it just this feud
with them felt just more intenseand personal than it ever had
before so it was stressful to meas somebody who really likes the
(31:38):
relationship of these twocharacters so I do really think
Severance is an amazing show Ihope we don't have to wait
forever for the next season butmy style and type of tv that i
enjoy watching is more whathacks gives me and i feel like
this show is a a beautifuldepiction of characters but not
(31:59):
over the top they still verymuch feel like themselves even
when they disappoint you but italso blends humor and drama
really well and i i just reallyenjoy it so for me it would be
hacks now originally they alwayssaid they had a plan for five
seasons they've since said theymight not they might do more and
i read in into that article alittle bit I can't criticize
(32:19):
people for the Lilo and Stitchthing without actually reading
into context myself andbasically they said they have a
plan that they the way they wantto end the story but if for some
reason they need more episodesto finish that story instead of
cramming them in that might be areason why they would do more
because I don't think while itwins awards Daniel I don't think
(32:39):
it's one of the heavy hittersfor Max like I think that a lot
like most people assume becauseit cleaned up at the awards it
was probably probably going toget a season five but it's not
bringing in the numbers thatgemstones brought in or like
white lotus by any stretch oreven the last of us it's nowhere
near those type of viewershipnumbers i'm pretty sure so for
now yeah i'm gonna go with hacks
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
well there you have it folks we are a split decision
in the house if you're notfamiliar if you're newer here if
you're not familiar the bestthing going is how we kind of
kick this podcast off anddeclaring a show as the best
thing going and i think this isthe first time we've been a
split decision on the best thinggoing you Usually we've been in
alignment, but, but right nowbackups.
Yeah.
(33:20):
But right now I think, you know,for me, it's severance for you.
It's hacks.
Um,
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
I mean, what do you think about hacks?
I told you that I still thinkseverance is like a brilliantly
done show, but I, and I gave myreason why I would pick hacks
over it.
What are your thoughts on hacks?
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
Oh, I think hacks is excellent.
It's well-written.
It's funny.
Uh, but it's got the dramaticelements.
It's, it's absolutely a greatshow.
Uh, just for me, I I'm, for me,when it comes to the best thing
going on severance is just theretaking up all of my mind space
whenever I think about it,trying to understand what may or
may not happen in the nextseason.
So that's kind of how I judgethis thing going.
(33:55):
And that's all the Supercutwe've got for you this week,
everybody.
I hope you enjoyed and see younext time.
you
SPEAKER_00 (00:11):
Hey everybody and welcome to We Watch TV.
It is the podcast about the TVthat we watch.
I am Daniel and this is aSupercut.
If you're new to the podcast andyou don't know what a Supercut
is, it's when we take ourconversations about a specific
show that have taken place overvarious podcast episodes and we
cram them all into one Supercutso that you can listen to
everything you want to knowabout that show and that season
(00:34):
all in one place.
And in this episode we'retalking all about Hacks Season
4.
We started off our conversationabout Hacks in episode 102,
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
We Are
SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Cooked.
SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
What is Ryan saying on The Office?
Woof.
SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
I finished the first three seasons of Hacks.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
And I got to rewatch it again in all its glory.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
And then we have also watched the first three
episodes of the new season fourthat are out.
I agree with you.
It's a very good show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Excellent show.
You had seen a little bit, bitsand pieces, some episodes with
me, and I feel like you thoughtit was funny.
But now that you've watched itall together and you have that
connection with the characters,did those episodes, like, feel
differently to you now like nowthat you know Deborah you know
Ava you know Marcus like didthat come off
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
like yeah absolutely like you know always missing
those character developmentmoments you know doesn't give
you the full scope of thecharacters yeah I am going to be
frustrated speaking of theseason we have now yes and the
knowledge of we are at leastgetting a fifth season
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
remember guys we are spoiler podcast we didn't say
that earlier so oopsie
SPEAKER_00 (02:07):
that I'm going to be frustrated I think we've talked
about this if season five is isthe same kind of format that
season 2 and season 4 arelooking to be which is in
conflict with those two with thetwo main characters Ava and
Debra Vance because this isseason 4 so far has been mostly
a like season 2 conflict on likeramped up to a thousand so the
SPEAKER_01 (02:31):
season 2 conflict was that Ava had sent out those
emails about Debra then eventhough she took it back because
she was very upset and angryabout their father in season one
so deborah said she was going tosue her so there was a little
bit of tension then deborah camearound but she'd still make the
jokes like yeah well i'm goingto take you for everything you
own and obviously you know shedidn't sue her at the end this
(02:52):
one was a little bit differentbecause the way season three
ended was deborah basically saidi'm gonna she she gets the gig
to be the late night host andshe told ava like you're going
to be the head writer and thenof course deborah as usual got
paranoid like what if they takethis away from me again i don't
have it gets in her head andthen screws ava over lies to Ava
(03:12):
and says they they said theywant to go with their guy but
you can be like the second incommand well Ava sees Helen
Hunt's character who's like thenetwork head or something out
and about and she's like hey Ijust want like you know like
I've I'm good like I can beshe's like oh I told Debra she
can hire whoever she wants soit's not only the screwing over
it's the line and Ava wentscorched earth and basically is
extorting Debra let's call itwhat it is
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Debra did wrong but what Ava's doing is not right so
this is a much more elevatedconflict but I agree with what
you're saying I can't take everyseason of we have the tension we
have the conflict we get over itwe have growth and then we fight
again there needs to be somebalance those two are always
gonna I feel like be at odds insome way because they're so
alike they do butt heads andthat's part of the charm of
(03:56):
those characters is that you cantell that they are very
emotionally connected to eachother and the people and I'm not
saying they're not romantic Ithink well that ship is fun in
theory I don't think it's gonnahappen I but what I mean by like
so emotionally connected withtheir story souls is that they
are so much alike they sharesuch that bond and connection
but they can hurt each othermore than anybody else and I
(04:17):
think you're seeing that playout and I really hope that
they're gonna cool it and I feellike they are like now they know
in catching up in season fourthat basically they were told
like hey this is our last ditcheffort or we might have to pull
late night all together becauseI mean I don't know about I
don't know any of my friendsthat watch I think one I think
Kaylin does I think she is adevoted to watching Seth she
might be the only one I know andI don't know if she watches it
(04:39):
every night now that she's gotthe children the kiddos or if
she DVRs it or what but mostpeople I know they only watch it
when they see like a clip onYouTube like do you know anybody
personally like under the age oflike 45 that watches late night
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
no
SPEAKER_01 (04:54):
like I don't know anybody who watches SNL either
like I'll see stuff on my TikTokand I'll be like oh that's funny
like this skit but like
SPEAKER_00 (05:00):
if you're out there let us
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
know do you watch this let me know your age your
demographic
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
so
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
they have that they gotta put their personal crap
aside and they have to see whatthey can do to
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
save the show now the we're several episodes into
season four I can tell you thetrajectory of this season though
this season ends with that firstepisode I
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
think so too
SPEAKER_00 (05:18):
and then so season five is going to be maybe a time
yeah maybe a time jump and we'regonna see what's going on
extended from here this seasonis going to be just the run-up
to the final episode if I were awriter of the show and I'm
thinking about it myself if Iwere gonna get real artsy and
stupid with it the last episodeof this season would just be the
(05:40):
show that goes on TV nothingelse like just what we what we
as as actual viewers of latenight would see from the from
that perspective I don't knowthat they'll do
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
that do that because I'm pretty sure I saw some clips
of like Rosie O'Donnell filminglike as like herself as like a
guest yeah I think I readsomething about that so maybe
maybe she'll be the last episodeI don't know we're like Deborah
interviews Rosie I'm pretty sureI read that maybe somebody you
know sometimes people are wrongon reddit but I think pretty
sure I read that I I thinkthough that like if the plan
really is to get five seasons, Ithink that Debra and Ava aren't
(06:16):
going to continue to argue asfiercely, but I'm not sure we're
going to have the conflict.
I don't think they're going tobe as close as they were in
season three.
Personally, I think you're, Ithink they're going to have to,
you know, I think that we'llstill have, I think we'll still
have fun.
Debra Ava moments like, likewhere they're at the spa where
she got like her facelift orwhatever.
I think we'll have some stufflike that, but I'm not sure.
(06:38):
One of the things that I like somuch about season three was how
close they got like they're atthe hiking episode right I told
you that was my favorite episodeof season three I'm not sure
we're gonna get that yet in thisseason if they're planning for a
five and then maybe we'll mendthe relationship but maybe we
won't
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
I don't know because I'll tell you right now I still
think that what Deborah saidlike right now they're coming
the arc is they're coming backtogether because they've
realized they have to you knowthey've had the talking to from
the network head now that HRperson has to be in the room
with them like they've had theirtalking to and they're gonna
come together but at thebeginning of this This season,
it's the end of episode one whenthey were at the photo shoot.
(07:14):
Deborah said, I'm never going toforgive you for this.
And we might go on for years andyears and years.
She didn't forgive
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
her sister.
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
Yeah, but the moment this ride, she said, the moment
this ride is over, we are done.
And I will never speak to youagain.
I hope
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
that doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
I'm not going to say that's going to happen.
But I think that is going to besomething that we see come out
at the end of this season.
And I wouldn't be surprised ifwe get...
if we see some shades of that inseason five.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
Because it broke my heart when Midge and Susie
weren't speaking to each otherfor a little bit.
Because Midge blamed Susie andMaisel.
Sorry, jumping ahead to anothercomedy show set in another
decade.
Midge blamed Susie for Joelgoing to jail, right?
Yes.
Yeah, because he kind of fell onthe sword.
But then they eventually didbecome friends again in the end,
(08:05):
which was nice.
Because I felt like whileobviously I did like, sorry,
sorry, I like Midge and LennyBruce.
the actors had chemistry off thecharts I don't care that was
historically or
SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
inaccurately
SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
no what I'm saying though is the love story of that
show was Midge and Susieultimately and I think the love
story of this is even if it'snot romantic is Ava and Debra
but that scene that you'rereferencing can we just talk
about how beautifully acted thatwas I feel like Hannah she is
the writer that plays Ava andshe's a writer I believe also
for this show and in real lifeher acting skills are I feel
(08:38):
like I feel like she's alwaysbeen a good actor there have
improved like her face actingjust her eyes and that smile
when they were doing thatmagazine shoot I feel like this
might be we need to get her anEmmy like she it was so like I
was so impressed by how both ofthem did that scene but
especially her like it was sogood now you like Shooter
McGavin and Debra right Marty
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
if I saw a realistic ship for Debra it's with him
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
I'm just not sure that Debra's meant to be
SPEAKER_00 (09:07):
no I don't know that that's the show but but
certainly of all the mencharacters in her life he's the
one that sees her most for whoshe really is because they had
that golf episode
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
oh yeah from season
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
where she were season three where she was like
trying to show off for the bignetwork owner the conglomerate
owner whatever that guy is butshe was like playing like she
didn't know how to golf and hewas like what are you doing
because he knows she's betterthan that
SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
you know she's a ball buster yeah
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
yeah so he knew that that just was not her and so I
like I said I this show is notabout the ship
SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
please watch hacks even me even us giving a sport
you sports right now it's one ofthose shows that you don't
really you need to watch youneed to watch the dynamic
between the two because youwould like Daniel had a coming
back and forth and knew a littlebit and now that you have the
whole like you care about itmore you're more invested in
these characters now obviouslyseverance is still your best
thing going and I think while Ilove severance and thought that
(09:59):
was one of the best seasonfinales I've ever seen
ultimately where we differ isI'm always going to cling to a
little bit more funny eventhough severance can be funny
too that's why I have Hacks isdefinitely in my...
Well, I have to see how theseason plays out, but it's in my
conversation for Best ThingGoing.
While you might not agree withme, can you see why I would
think that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
If we compiled a list of shows that we would say,
these are the ones that are inthe running for the Best Thing
Going, and you put Hacks on thelist, I have zero argument
against you on why you would addthat at least to a short list,
for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
All right.
No question.
I'm looking forward to moreHacks.
SPEAKER_00 (10:38):
We continued to talk about Hacks in episode...
Episode 103, Go See a Star War.
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
Anyway, do you want to talk about something current?
SPEAKER_00 (10:46):
Sure.
We've got two shows we'rewatching.
I don't know that we have muchto say about either of them.
You want to go with Hacks first?
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
I was going to go with the other, but we'll do
Hacks.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Let's do Hacks first.
I was completely wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
Episode 4 or 5?
5.
I was
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
completely wrong in my prediction that the season
was going to go up to the firstshow and end there because this
episode they just did the firstshow.
So I'm done making predictionson where they're going to go.
I'm out.
I retire.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
What about Deborah's anxiety?
And then she's like, I'm nothaving a panic attack.
I'm having a cardiac event.
But then I think she went to thedoctor and everything was fine.
When she's at the doctor at theend of the episode, it's because
she was in the club and that guyput like a popper in her face.
She hit her head on a bar, whichthe network's going to have to
(11:36):
talk to her about how she'sgoing to be more careful going
out in public.
I think that's going to
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
be the best.
security guards at some point so
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
yes well we know too that like with her and Ava they
have the HR person in the roomso the network's gonna put that
on her I think the network'sgonna start censoring their
jokes a little more I think thenetwork's gonna come down about
like hey you're not you can'tjust go out like the two of you
used to so I think that's gonnabe a lot of our conflict is the
(12:03):
network itself and they knowthey have that pressure that
they have to remain number one Iread a theory that they're gonna
pull a and leno and they'regonna take deborah off the air
at the end of the season and theguy that she came on to replace
is gonna get better and he'sgonna come back i think that'd
be silly if they did that forthe show i wonder personally if
(12:24):
they're gonna go to a thingwhere deborah has wanted this so
much she's wanted redemption forwhat was taken from her that
she's gonna realize like maybe ididn't want this at all and i
want to do something elsesomething different where i'm
not being held back i don't knowwhat do you think
SPEAKER_00 (12:40):
i I just got done telling you I'm not trying to
predict any more of the seasonbecause I was just so like just
horridly wrong earlier.
I don't think a Conan situationis right because I feel like if
they were going to do that wewould have met that guy already
and we didn't like even lastseason when she talked to him it
was just a phone conversation sothey would be I think we would
(13:02):
need him characterized a littlebit more to make him as the
villain he would end up being ifthat were the case.
I definitely think that you'reon to something there with now
that we've gotten past the firstepisode I think we're going to
see the grind of a night of adaily show and what it takes to
(13:22):
actually put that show on fivenights a week and I think you're
right I think at some point thattoll might start to come and
Debra realize was this what Iactually wanted or this what I
thought I deserved yeah
SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
I do like that we got more of that Debra Ava
dynamic somehow they ended upwatching the first episode
together because she hadforgotten to remove Ava from her
emergency contact and they endedup watching it in a hospital
waiting room I like that becausethey're both proud of the work
they're doing even if they'restill at odds so that was just
(13:57):
and you could tell they so badlywanted to hold each other's hand
in that moment but they're justboth resisting I've seen a thing
that's like every season we endwith Debra screwing Ava over
somehow or Ava being upsetthey're like what if we end this
season if five is the last whereAva is the one that's not going
(14:17):
to be forgiving or something I'mlike that would be an
interesting shift and it wouldshow character growth for better
or for worse for both of thosecharacters worse for Ava if
she's going to be more likeDebra maybe some growth for
Debra I don't know what we'regoing to do I would love I don't
want to see it end where theynever talk to each other or have
a sad ending I want them to bothcome around but I think they're
(14:39):
going to have to grow up alittle bit little bit both of
them
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
no I agree the hacks conversation continued in
episode 104 the righteousgemstones finale hacks season 4
episode 5
SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
we are halfway through the season there are 10
episodes of hacks another showout of like 12 and this that was
a that was a tough episode towatch
SPEAKER_00 (15:01):
yeah it really was
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
if your team Ava Deborah at least their
connection relationship againnot romantic but just I felt
like we had kind of peeled itback a little bit and we were
starting to get some like we hadmade some progress in terms of
mending their relationship andnow I feel like it's so thrown
far back and this time Ava isthe one I'm a little bit more
(15:24):
upset with
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
but I mean she was a little bit more of the
provocateur in this case
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
honestly when you've been burned so many times yeah
what you gonna do so our wholearc now is network what are we
gonna do for the network thenetwork wants this they need to
get rating They go to a focusgroup.
I could never stand to be in afocus group because I would
absolutely do what Debra did andI would absolutely do what
Leslie Knope did.
None of the positives would hitme.
(15:49):
I would just focus absolutely onevery single negative thing.
Tell Ron I'm really good atbowling.
It would not be great for me.
Anytime I get some type of,let's say I get a 98 on a test.
When I was in school, I'd belike, well, why did you deduct
two points?
Please tell me what I did wrongand how I can improve.
in therapy laughing
SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
Anyway, one of them criticized Deborah's hair, so
she puts on the worst extensionsI've ever seen for a cooking
segment.
I guess that mom they did, thatdance mom they brought in, too,
is like a real TikTok person.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, that they spoofed.
So they're trying to, like,appeal to a demographic, and
Ava's friends get in her headabout it because they're off
doing some project.
And I think Ava's having arealization like you're not
going to maybe get to do thehighbrow stuff you want to do
when you're the head writer on anetwork late night show that
(16:56):
you're going to have to strikethat balance.
It can't be all likepretentious.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
You have to appeal to a network TV wide audience.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:05):
You're going to have to have mass humor appeal to
everybody.
I thought Jimmy Kimmel playedhimself well.
SPEAKER_00 (17:11):
That was really funny.
I would love to
SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
get more comedians
SPEAKER_00 (17:13):
on there.
That was maybe the funniestthing of the episode was when
Jimmy just shows up out ofnowhere to threaten her.
Yeah, because Debra tried totake
SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
Kristen Bell.
SPEAKER_00 (17:22):
That was really funny.
They probably aren't going to,but I think it would be really
funny if they got Fallon andthey got Colbert to show up to
do similar things to threatenher.
I want
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
Conan to show up since they keep referencing the
Conan debacle that we all livelife.
Team Conan forever, by the way.
SPEAKER_00 (17:38):
Yeah, team Conan forever.
SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
Go, go, baby.
So Ava's got in her head aboutthat.
Debra, Debra, Debra, Debra.
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Oh, Debra.
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
Debra is going back to her QVC ways about wanting to
give the people what they want.
Like she's so scared to death.
She's going to lose this show.
She wants that.
So they're, they both are wrongin that aspect of how they're
treating it.
But this is where I did agreewith Debra a little bit.
Cause even Jimmy and Kayla weretelling Ava, like, Hey, we got
to get this TikTok person onhere.
(18:07):
That's, that's what people thinkis funny.
You got to appeal.
What is it like the moms?
SPEAKER_00 (18:12):
Yeah.
And it went really well on theepisode when they did it.
So, and that made Ava evenworse.
And
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
then Ava, did try to take out the wine o'clock joke
which I did think was stupid andput her own joke in there and
Debra just completely was likeno and then they had a little
argument literally they're gonnahave to get it in check like
because that was in front of alive audience which I think you
have to like surrender yourphones for stuff like that
something correct me if I'mwrong so it's not gonna get out
that way I think and I do thinkyou sound like NDAs when you go
(18:39):
to filming maybe not for thatI'm sure you do I know you do
for like Bachelor live shows yousign NDAs and stuff but they
their little HR person that hadbeen following around trips and
falls, bust her mouth open andfinally just unleashed on both
of them.
It was like, you are bothhorrible.
So they're going to have to,they're going to have to figure
something out.
(18:59):
They're just so, they're thetype that when they work
together, it's great.
When they're at odds, it's toxicand horrible for everybody
around them.
And when they were out todinner, Ava is in a throuple
situation, something like that.
Deborah sees her and Deborah'sjust being Deborah kind of
making fun out of it.
But, but then was like, I'mgoing to order dessert from the
table.
Let's hang out.
(19:19):
I feel like Debra was actuallytrying to just have a nice time,
and that's where Ava was like,oh, we just work together.
SPEAKER_00 (19:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Debra was trying, I think, alittle bit, and Ava just wasn't
having it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
And for somebody like Debra, that's just going to
make it even harder for themnext time you hurt her like that
again.
I know they say they have afifth season planned, but this
season is rough.
It's rough for the people, butat the same time, same time they
are putting that realism inthere if you had such a fallout
like they did at the end ofseason three that's probably how
(19:54):
it would have played out i i'mi'm just i need them i need my
girls to at least have abreather to come together to be
their best they're at their bestwhen they work their magic
together but i don't know ifthis late night show is that and
i think that might be the arc ofthe season i don't know
SPEAKER_00 (20:13):
i agree i i would not be surprised if the Debra
not on the show anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Not on the late night
SPEAKER_00 (20:20):
show.
Not on the late night showanymore, yeah.
And we wrapped up talking aboutHacks Season 4 in Episode 106,
Resting Nice Face.
Well, with that out of the way,we do have some television shows
that I watched with you.
First up here on the agenda isactually a season finale.
Hacks Season 4, final episode.
(20:43):
And it was kind of a...
anticlimactic kind of episodebut I kind of we've talked about
it and I think we both agreed itwas necessary because otherwise
this would have had to been thefirst episode of season five and
that wouldn't have worked reallywell I don't think
SPEAKER_01 (21:03):
and I feel like just to catch the listeners up I
don't think we've talked abouthacks the last couple podcasts
because we wanted to save it forthe end so I think the last time
we spoke on hacks Ava and Debrawere still at odds they were
able to put that behind themthem.
Ava had a massive crash out.
Debra realized basically thatshe had been being a horrible
person and that she wouldn't bewhere she was without Ava.
(21:26):
So their fences were mended.
We have them, you know, they'reback on track.
They're like, let's write theshow for each other.
I mean, I might have alreadysaid that in a previous podcast.
I don't remember.
Who knows?
And I'd say the episode beforethe finale was the big one.
SPEAKER_00 (21:42):
Yeah.
What happened was...
Helen Hunt's character, who waslike the executive over the
channel had been, yeah, Wendyhad been really on Debra to come
up with like a, her carpoolkaraoke equivalent, right?
Which we find out later, Wendythought that was a dumb idea
too, but that's just what yougot to do, right?
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
You got to play the game and you work.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
So she's so tough on it that, that Debra ends up
running into Bob Lipka, BobLipka, who owns the studio or
he's the CEO of everything, ofall the whole big conglomerate.
And she completely, Complains toBob about Wendy about that
specific situation.
Turn it around and suddenly thenext thing we know, Wendy's been
(22:26):
fired and Bob has taken over.
And
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
I don't think Debra wanted that to
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
happen necessarily.
I don't think that was theresult Debra was looking for,
but she also didn't seem likeshe was that upset by
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
it.
Yeah, I agree.
She was very Debra about it,like, oh well.
SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
So then the next episode we're seeing the studio,
Bob Lipka, has had them bring ona guest.
that's got some problematicissues that Ava is definitely
against.
Debra's not necessarily totallyagainst it, but she does, in the
taping of the show, ask him aquestion that his agents come
back and say, hey, we'd reallylike to cut that.
SPEAKER_01 (23:01):
Because apparently they...
I always thought Late Night Showwas live.
It's not.
It's pre-taped.
I don't know why I stupidly...
I just always thought they wereall up that late.
I guess they're on the WestCoast, so I was like, they're
not that late.
But what, do they do it in theafternoon?
They do the tapings?
And that's how it is for all ofthem.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Yeah.
It's a live show, which we'llget to in a minute.
So that brings us to the liveshow.
Debra was doing a live after theOscars show.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
Which was huge because they had gone to number
one.
They're the number one latenight show.
You got to put in that detail.
They were successful.
SPEAKER_00 (23:32):
Bob also told Debra to fire Ava.
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
Oh, yeah, because it turned out Ava saw her old
coworkers at a bar and kind ofmentioned, which they were
already doing a hit piece onthis particular actor that had
problematic texts anyway.
and Ava being Ava just openedher mouth about it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
And it sprung them into a censorship conversation.
And that's what led to Debratricked Ava into being out of
the studio so she wouldn't beable to stop her.
I was nervous.
And on live TV, Debra just laysout the studio head.
I keep saying studio headbecause I've got another show in
my head.
The executive on live air,right?
(24:13):
And then a couple other peopleconspire to keep it on the air
are long enough for her to getmost of her message out she of
course is fired
SPEAKER_01 (24:22):
Ava's watching this from the security thing because
they had Ava's badge andeverything terminated Debra
basically said this has been mydream job but you know this is
what's what's going on it was itwas a baller move
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
which leads us to our final episode of the season
where Debra basically hercontract says if she gets fired
she has a non-compete for 18months
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
which is a very normal thing and even like like
regular people's line of workslike I know that I had to ask
people before like do you have anon-compete when it comes to
like professional things likethat's an actual thing that
regular people it
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
shouldn't be but I'm not going to get
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
political you're not going to get but it is a thing
that exists for all and youwould think that they did
address that they're like didyou not read your contract she's
like well I thought I was nevergoing to have another job again
because I finally got my dreamjob that's why I didn't read
this contract because readingcontracts and litigation was
always something that like Debrawas into so I remember making a
comment to you like that's weirdto me that she wouldn't have
read that but so they theyclarified that and And okay, so
(25:18):
here we go.
Last episode.
The episode before that, episodenine was crazy.
Yeah.
Because it ended with them likeliterally like Thelma Louise-ing
it, like leaving the studiotogether and Bob Lipka at their
car being like, hey, you'refinished, lady.
So we had all that intensity andthen we pick up right with the
(25:39):
fallout and we have Debra superdepressed.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Yep.
She's visited different, like amillion different lawyers to try
and find her way out of thatcontract, but nobody can
SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
you know what my favorite part of just showcasing
how depressed Debra was was yeahso back in Vegas when in they we
I don't think we saw her withthe fountain pop she was just a
fountain Diet Cokes it was justher thing it's the thing that
was highlighted in season one soit's just if you're a watcher of
the show you know that's a thingand I look at you and I'm like
oh my gosh I was like she'sdrinking bottle Diet Coke she
(26:11):
didn't go in because she's likein a convenience store and she
didn't get the fountain pop shegot the just a bottle so like
it's just little details thatwriters sprinkle in like that
that i really like um but thenthey decide they're like you
should she talks to we see martyagain
SPEAKER_00 (26:29):
well this is if we saw him this season it was early
but i don't think we have yeah idon't think we have marty
convinces her to go to hawaii toone of his resorts
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
to chill
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
she decides to bring to bring ava along with her
except they don't actually go tohawaii she takes her to
singapore because Debra hasfound her own workaround from
the contract, which is that shecan, through a translator, do
her comedy in a Singapore casinoequivalent.
So she starts doing that, andshe's really, her jokes are her
(27:01):
old stuff.
Yeah, and
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
Ava's down for it at first.
They have a montage of themhaving fun, but you slowly start
to see Ava's character kind ofbreak, and you see Debra's
character just drinking more,phoning it in, falling asleep on
stage.
So while she's doing this,because she feels the need to
work it's not fulfilling her
SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
and then they almost had me why don't you tell us
what happened
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
i didn't believe it i did not believe this for one
second but so deborah and avahave a fight it's not nearly as
big of a fight as what they'vehad in the past
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
it wasn't their normal
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
but ava decides she's gonna go back to the
states yeah and so she goes toher room and when she wakes up
she's got like a million phonecalls and she finally gets on
the phone with the with herdeborah's agent and she's like
can can you check on Debra?
Because TMZ just published apost that she is dead.
And they went deep into veryserious music and Ava like
(27:55):
longingly running through thehallway.
And like they were working realhard from a production value
standpoint to make you thinkthis could actually be true only
to have when Ava gets to herhotel room and starts knocking
on the door.
And
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Debra's like, what?
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
Debra's alive.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:10):
She's basically just like hung over and laying in
bed.
You know why I think, I thinkwhen I'm really emotionally
invested in a show, it's easierfor a show to trick me because
some of my walls that I havebuilt up with other shows are
down but I also could see I likeI'm like what if you know we
season five I think wasannounced like two days before
the finale aired and I'm likewhat if they make season five
about because I think they'restill going to need to like at
(28:32):
some point Ava's going to haveto really strike out on her own
I feel like to be verysatisfying for us like obviously
the point of the show is herrelationship with Debra but I'd
also like to see Ava grow somein a different way like be
comfortable on her own so Ithought well what if they just
what if they I was like that's abold move what if they're really
doing this but I should haveknown better and then that it
(28:55):
took that Debra reading her likeobit or whatever that TMZ put up
to kind of sometimes I thinkDebra is the classic like
narcissistic type of person thatsometimes it takes just a real
kick in the butt to kind ofshake you out of a funk and it
took that for her to be likethis isn't because they said in
the obit that she killed latenight she's like I'm not going
(29:16):
to be remember that she's likelet's pack in let's get to work
let's go so I think we're led tobelieve that at least a couple
months had passed by that theywere in Singapore I don't think
like the full 18 months but youknow maybe a few months couple
months
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
few months Ava says at one point we've been here for
a couple months or something soyeah so time passed but not the
full 18 months so I fully expectseason 5 to pick up still in the
18 month period maybe a littlecloser to the end of it
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
kind of like what material what their next move is
SPEAKER_00 (29:46):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
and I'm really looking forward to it and I
think you and I at first we hadthat initial reaction of wow
that was a really just kind oflike anti-climatic like you said
kind of just slow finalecompared to the previous episode
but it fits because as a viewerI liked seeing that fall out and
I would read that means that wecan start season five not from
(30:07):
that depressive place not thatshe won't still be depressed but
oh
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
I think she's mad now
SPEAKER_01 (30:13):
yeah now she's fired up she's mad and I think it's
just gonna be a little bit moredriven and I think that's a
really good way to pick up forthe new season because I you
know even when shows pick up onthe next day when you're waiting
months to see a show like we aresays viewers might be like oh
she should be over it but youknow what I mean like because
(30:33):
time has passed for us it's hardfor us to and I'm not saying
when I say us I don't mean likethe two of us I just mean like
viewers in general that arewatching these shows so I
thought I thought that was areally good move
SPEAKER_00 (30:43):
all right question for you yes so we have reached
You, I didn't.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
what they do in Severance I like a funnier show
and I think that's kind of whythe first couple episodes of
Hacks was hard for me to getthrough because that fight just
felt more intense also I watchedHacks differently than I had on
previous seasons I had to do theweekly release which I think
makes the feud stretch outlonger and it just this feud
with them felt just more intenseand personal than it ever had
before so it was stressful to meas somebody who really likes the
(31:38):
relationship of these twocharacters so I do really think
Severance is an amazing show Ihope we don't have to wait
forever for the next season butmy style and type of tv that i
enjoy watching is more whathacks gives me and i feel like
this show is a a beautifuldepiction of characters but not
(31:59):
over the top they still verymuch feel like themselves even
when they disappoint you but italso blends humor and drama
really well and i i just reallyenjoy it so for me it would be
hacks now originally they alwayssaid they had a plan for five
seasons they've since said theymight not they might do more and
i read in into that article alittle bit I can't criticize
(32:19):
people for the Lilo and Stitchthing without actually reading
into context myself andbasically they said they have a
plan that they the way they wantto end the story but if for some
reason they need more episodesto finish that story instead of
cramming them in that might be areason why they would do more
because I don't think while itwins awards Daniel I don't think
(32:39):
it's one of the heavy hittersfor Max like I think that a lot
like most people assume becauseit cleaned up at the awards it
was probably probably going toget a season five but it's not
bringing in the numbers thatgemstones brought in or like
white lotus by any stretch oreven the last of us it's nowhere
near those type of viewershipnumbers i'm pretty sure so for
now yeah i'm gonna go with hacks
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
well there you have it folks we are a split decision
in the house if you're notfamiliar if you're newer here if
you're not familiar the bestthing going is how we kind of
kick this podcast off anddeclaring a show as the best
thing going and i think this isthe first time we've been a
split decision on the best thinggoing you Usually we've been in
alignment, but, but right nowbackups.
Yeah.
(33:20):
But right now I think, you know,for me, it's severance for you.
It's hacks.
Um,
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
I mean, what do you think about hacks?
I told you that I still thinkseverance is like a brilliantly
done show, but I, and I gave myreason why I would pick hacks
over it.
What are your thoughts on hacks?
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
Oh, I think hacks is excellent.
It's well-written.
It's funny.
Uh, but it's got the dramaticelements.
It's, it's absolutely a greatshow.
Uh, just for me, I I'm, for me,when it comes to the best thing
going on severance is just theretaking up all of my mind space
whenever I think about it,trying to understand what may or
may not happen in the nextseason.
So that's kind of how I judgethis thing going.
(33:55):
And that's all the Supercutwe've got for you this week,
everybody.
I hope you enjoyed and see younext time.
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