August 20, 2024 • 34 mins
What if the women in Jesus' ministry were more than just caretakers and cooks? Prepare to be amazed as we uncover the profound roles of Joanna and Susanna, two of Jesus' lesser-known yet crucial disciples. These remarkable women, mentioned in Luke 8:1-3, not only supported Jesus financially but also broke societal norms through their patronage. Discover how Joanna's high status, given her husband's role as an official in Herod Antipas's court, intertwined with the political landscape of Galilee, and marvel at her pivotal role as a witness to Jesus' resurrection in Luke 24:10.
Journey with us as we explore the intriguing lives of Joanna and Susanna, who, despite living in a male-dominated society, took on the extraordinary roles of deacons. We delve into their financial support for Jesus' ministry and the radical nature of their contributions. Examine the cultural implications of female discipleship and understand how these women challenged traditional views by acting as patrons in a relationship defined by mutual reciprocity rather than hierarchy. We highlight the inspiring nature of their involvement and how Jesus' equalizing social status empowered them.
We also challenge conventional perspectives on Roman women by shedding light on their diverse professions, from doctors to business owners. Uncover the financial means through which Joanna and Susanna supported Jesus, whether through inheritance, dowries, or personal earnings. By understanding the social and financial agency of women in both Roman and Jewish contexts, we paint a vivid picture of their invaluable contributions. Finally, grasp the honor and respect these women received as patrons, and appreciate their humble yet pivotal support that helped shape the course of Jesus' ministry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jessica Jenkins (00:00):
We are talking about Jesus' disciples, Joanna
and Susanna.
We find them in Luke 8, verses2 and 3.
Let me read verses 1-3 for usnow.
After this, jesus traveledabout from one town and village
to another proclaiming the goodnews of the kingdom of God.
The twelve were with him andalso some women who had been
(00:23):
cured of evil spirits anddiseases.
Mary called Magdalene, fromwhom seven demons had come out.
Joanna, the wife of Huza, themanager of Herod's household,
susanna and many others.
These women were helping tosupport them out of their own
means.
We also see Joanna appearbriefly in Luke 24.10,.
(00:43):
Also see Joanna appear brieflyin Luke 24 10 when Jesus is
resurrected and is speaking tothe women who came to the tomb
to anoint him, and he found themthere.
We only see Joanna in those twospots.
She's mentioned in Luke 8,verse 3, and Luke 24 10.
Susanna is only mentioned inLuke 8, verse 3, but we have a
couple key pieces of informationabout each of them and I want
(01:07):
to talk about them specifically.
First, let's talk about Joanna.
We know more about her thanSusanna, though we still don't
know a great deal about her asan individual.
Joanna was a woman who was inHerod Antipas's court.
We are told that her husband,husa, was the steward.
(01:29):
This is likely a high-rankingofficial and we'll get there in
a moment.
So we know a little bit aboutJoanna.
We know for whom her husbandworks.
Her husband is the householdmanager of Herod Antipas.
A household manager could belike the steward of the estate,
someone who just runs thehousehold, or it could be an
official governmental position.
(01:50):
Either way, this is a highstatus position Herod Antipas
ruled.
If you're watching on YouTubethis rather than just listening,
if you're listening, you'll beable to find this map in your
show notes (available on ourPatreon).
If you're watching, you can seeit on the screen.
But Herod Antipas ruled overGalilee, which on the map is the
purple area.
He ruled over Galilee.
The nation of Israel, when theRomans took it over, was
(02:15):
originally ruled, you mayremember, by Herod the Great.
This is the Herod that wasruling over Judea and Galilee
when Jesus was born, which iswhy Joseph and Mary had to flee
to Egypt.
And then Herod the Great diedand his kingdom for lack of a
better term because it wasn'treally a kingdom because he's
(02:36):
ruling under the Romans.
The Romans have allowed Herodthe Great to rule, so it's kind
of a kingdom, but he's ruling byproxy because the Romans are
allowing him to rule as a Romancitizen.
So Herod the Great was ruling.
Mary and Joseph had to take babyJesus to Egypt to hide from
Herod the Great, and so whenHerod the Great dies, the
(02:56):
kingdom is split into four parts.
So when you see the map, you'llsee that there's a couple of
yellow parts, there's an orangepart, purple and a green part,
and so it was split up amongHerod's kids.
It's split up against Archelaus, and that's why Mary and Joseph
, when they came back from Egypt, they heard that Archelaus was
(03:16):
ruling over Judah.
So they went back to Galilee.
Herod Antipas was ruling overGalilee and Perea.
Herod Antipas was ruling overGalilee and Perea the two purple
areas on the map, and thenSalome was ruling the green
sections, and then Syria is thefar north and it had a couple
(03:37):
different sections that werehighly Gentile the Decapolis and
Syria.
And then Philip was ruling theorange section, which was east
of the Sea of Galilee.
Now Herodias was Philip's wife,who Herod Antipas.
She divorced Philip and marriedHerod Antipas, who John the
Baptist was speaking about.
(03:57):
So just try to give you somecontext.
I'm going to go through itagain.
You have Archelaus, who Josephand Mary were scared to be in
his area.
So they went to Galilee whereHerod Antipas was ruling.
And Herod Antipas was rulingfrom around the time of Jesus'
birth Well, not his birth, butshortly thereafter Jesus' birth,
(04:18):
when they could come back fromEgypt through Jesus' ministry.
So when you see Herod in theGospels it's talking about Herod
Antipas.
In Galilee you also have Philip,who's the next tetrarchy, over
the next little section, over onthe east side of the Sea of
Galilee.
Herod Antipas is on the westside of the Sea of Galilee,
(04:39):
philip is on the east side.
Philip was married to a womannamed Herodias.
Herodias divorced him andmarried Herod Antipas.
John the Baptist said it's notright for Herod Antipas to have
Philip, your brother's wife, andHerodias got really mad about
that and wanted John the Baptistbeheaded.
So Herod Antipas is overGalilee.
(05:02):
Some point I'm not sure on thispart of the history and it's
not as important for today'spodcast Archelaus gets killed,
ousted, not sure what happens,and Pontius Pilate takes over
Archelaus' territory.
So when Jesus is being pushedback and forth between Herod's
court and Pontius Pilate's courtright before he's crucified,
(05:24):
they are two rulers.
Herod had a palace or somewherein Jerusalem where he could come
when he was in town becausethat's still kind of the capital
of the entire region, butthat's not where he was normally
.
He normally lived in Tiberias,which is on the Sea of Galilee.
So there's another map in yourpackets that shows kind of a
(05:44):
close-up of Galilee.
You have Nazareth, where Jesuslived as a small child, where
Mary was from.
You have Tiberias, which is themain capital city of Galilee,
and that is where Herod Antipaslived and had his palace and
that's where Joanna would havebeen from.
And when you look at the mapyou can see Magdala, where Mary
(06:09):
Magdalene was likely from, andCapernaum, where Peter and James
and John and all of them werefrom.
They're all cities just dottedaround the Sea of Galilee.
So Joanna likely was living inTiberias.
We don't know where she's fromoriginally, but we know that
she's living in Tiberias becauseher husband, cusa, is the
manager of Herod Antipas' courtand so she is a woman of a lot
of prominence.
(06:30):
I have an image in your shownotes (available on Patreon) of
the social stratification in thefirst century.
So you have the very top class,which is like 1% to 3% of the
people which are the rulers.
So you have royalty, nobility,politically connected elites.
Even the Sadducees are kind ofrulers.
Herod Antipas, obviously, is aruler.
Then you have retainers.
This makes two to five percentof the population.
(06:53):
It's the second level down fromthe rulers and this is bailiffs
, stewards, soldiers, taxcollectors, pharisees, etc.
And so Chuza would have been avery high, very high, higher
than, like the Pharisees and thesoldiers, and all of them
retainer.
He is a retainer class andJoanna, being his wife, would
have that high status as well.
(07:14):
So you have rulers and thenretainers.
He may have even had someruling, depending on whether he
was just a steward or whether heactually had political office
as well.
So Joanna and her husband areretainer, ruler class, extremely
high class.
You also have merchants andpriests, who are a fairly high
class and you have working classpeople.
Those are made up of artisansand then peasants, which are
(07:37):
farmers and fishermen.
Jesus would have beenconsidered probably part of the
artisan class Builders, potters,weavers, stonemasons, those
sorts of people are artisans andthey made an interesting bridge
between some of the upperclasses and then the lower
classes, like laborers and evenmost of the peasants.
Most of Jesus' disciples wouldhave been considered peasants
(07:59):
farmers, fishermen.
Peter James, john theirfishermen.
He did pull in some retainersas male apostle disciples.
We have Matthew the taxcollector, levi, who was likely
the same person as Matthew.
He had some Pharisees asdisciples.
So Jesus is pulling people fromall classes and we see that
very much with Joanna.
(08:20):
She is a high-class woman whocomes from the retainer class.
We don't know exactly how sheheard about Jesus.
Now, jesus was traveling allaround Galilee.
He was from Nazareth.
He was constantly in Capernaum.
That kind of became his homebase and he's traveling around
(08:42):
the Sea of Galilee and where hegoes, large crowds go.
They don't have TV ortelevision.
You want to find out about thiscelebrated teacher.
So people would come out of anyof these towns, even the rich
people.
They're curious just likeeverybody else and so they're
coming.
She likely did that.
It was likely she was sick orill or someone in her family was
sick or ill and Jesus healedthem.
So she has this feeling ofreciprocity towards Jesus.
(09:07):
She has belief in his powers.
So she's been cured of an evilspirit or disease, or someone in
her family was Huza.
Her husband also may have beenNabataean or Syrian.
When you look at the big mapwith all the different colors on
it, the Nabataean kingdom iskind of in gray to the east of
(09:27):
the Dead Sea and then Syria's upto the north.
The name Huzah is found in bothNabataean and Syrian literature
, so he may not have been Jewishor he could have been a Jewish
man with that kind of heritage,but he's likely Nabataean or
Syrian who then ended up inHerod Antipas' court.
We don't know if they had Romanstatus, if they were Roman
(09:50):
citizens.
We don't have that kind ofinformation.
But we do have a fair.
Just because Joanna was marriedto Huza, we have a fair idea of
her status and that she becomesa financial supporter of Jesus
who works alongside him, andlikely from at least at the time
(10:12):
she met Jesus Tiberius on theSea of Galilee.
So that's a brief overview ofJoanna.
Why she followed him?
Likely because he healed herand she believed in his message,
and so next let's talk brieflyabout Susanna.
Susanna we know a lot less about.
We don't know anything abouther family or social class.
(10:33):
We do know she also, or someonein her family, was cured of an
evil spirit and or disease.
She was also a financialsupporter of Jesus and she lived
in Galilee.
We do know that much, but we donot know where in Galilee.
On the map pack there's a mapby Susanna that shows Galilee,
and Tiberias is in Galilee.
(10:54):
Nazareth, sepphoris, is anotherlarge city.
We don't know where in Galileeshe came from, but Jesus was
traveling all over and most ofhis female disciples, mary and
Martha excluded because they'refrom Bethany, right outside
Jerusalem, and most of hisfemale disciples, mary and
Martha, excluded because they'refrom Bethany, right outside
Jerusalem, most of Jesus' femaledisciples are from the Galilee
region.
Okay, so let's talk about whatJoanna and Susanna did
(11:18):
specifically to support Jesus.
We don't know a whole lot abouttheir work and what they did,
how they supported specifically.
We don't know exactly wheretheir money came from, but we do
have some educated guesses fromwhat we know of the people and
(11:40):
the cultures at the time period.
So first let's consider it saidin verse 3,.
It said these women werehelping to support them, jesus
and the apostles, out of theirown means.
The text does not call thempatrons specifically and we'll
talk about that in a few minutes, but the word help is the same
deaconess word used to talkabout deacons later on, or
(12:04):
Phoebe, the deaconess whobrought Paul's letter in Romans
16.
So these women are acting asdeacons, they are acting as
servants, they are acting ashelpers and they are supporting
financially, which indicatessome level of patronage, which
we'll talk about in a minute.
Stein comments in hiscommentary these women were
(12:25):
apparently well-to-do.
The verb were helping is aGreek term, dekanon, from which
we get the word deacon.
The way the women areintroduced in these verses may
indicate they were known to thegospel's readers.
So again, this is the gospel ofLuke.
Another commentator mentionedthat Luke seems to know an awful
lot about Herod Antipas'household and how it ran, and he
(12:48):
may have gotten thatinformation from Joanna, who was
the steward's wife.
One thing that is fairly commonI'm seeing in all of my research
is that for Jesus to havefemale disciples, learners,
followers, with him would havebeen scandalous.
In that day no rabbis, noteachers had female disciples
(13:10):
and nobody had co-ed classes.
This was unheard of.
It was fairly common for womenif they had financial means,
which having financial means wasextremely uncommon.
Having that kind of money notnormal.
But for those who did, it wasnot uncommon for women to serve
as patrons or supporters ofreligious teachers or
(13:31):
associations.
This was a way women could usetheir money, use their financial
means.
It was not unheard of for thisto happen.
Forbes says in his book that weshould not take the expression
they were helping to mean thatthe women merely performed
traditional roles of cooking,washing, etc.
(13:51):
For they are on the road withJesus, not in a fixed location,
with Jesus, not in a fixedlocation.
Moreover, it was the maledisciples who were later asked
by Jesus to provide food, notthe women, which is interesting
because typically you expectfood to be more of the female
domain, but the women who aretraveling with Jesus are not
designated to go get the food.
So again, this gives us morethat these women.
(14:15):
They're wealthy women who havesome sort of special class, and
they are supporting Jesus aspatrons.
So how did these women helpfund the ministry?
And what is a patron?
A patronage is a relationshipmarked by reciprocity, kind of a
I'll scratch your back, youscratch mine.
It's the giving and thereceiving of favors, you scratch
(14:36):
mine.
It's the giving and thereceiving of favors For people
of equal status.
This reciprocity was typicallyconsidered friendship or
partnership.
There wasn't a above-belowstatus.
It's something neighbors woulddo with one another, whether
they are poor or rich.
You think about how, when Jesusis crucified and Herod and
Pilate are sending him back andforth.
The text says they were enemiesbut now they became friends.
(15:00):
The sending Jesus back andforth and how they both handled
that, honoring each other inthat, created a relationship of
reciprocity between HerodAntipas and Pontius Pilate.
That enabled a friendshipbetween those two men.
Now, those people in arelationship who do more favors
whether you're in a poor villageand you have household A, they
(15:22):
just end up doing more favorsthan household B.
All the time they end up beingthe ones considered the patrons
they provide informal.
This provides an informalleadership structure in the
ancient world.
This provides an informalleadership structure in the
ancient world.
(15:44):
Now there are some people whosay that the women, joanna and
Susanna these women shouldn'tnecessarily be considered
patrons because of how Jesus wasreally tearing apart.
I think it was Forbes who saidthat, quoting someone else.
Jesus is really tearing apart alot of the social status and
it's very equalizing.
You also have to consider, whenit comes to reciprocity, that
Jesus had healed them.
So their financial support iskind of the reciprocity for
(16:06):
Jesus as their patron.
So you kind of have this mutualreciprocity going back and
forth between Jesus and thesewomen.
Yes, they are financialsupporters, which some would
consider patronage, that theywould have some pull and sway
because patrons often wereconsidered they were the ones
supposed to influence others forthe sake of their clients.
(16:26):
But we don't want to think ofJesus as a client of these women
because that's like a lowerstatus and these women are
financially supporting himreciprocally because of the
healing he did and because oftheir belief in him.
So where culturally andstructurally there is this
patronage structure thateveryone would understand that
these women are high-statuswomen.
(16:47):
They are not patrons in thesense that they have leadership
over Jesus or even the otherdisciples, because this is a
reciprocal relationship ofgiving and receiving, started by
Jesus' lavish grace on them,healing and removing demons,
typically patrons.
(17:10):
We often think of patrons mostwhen we consider public
benefactors.
I'm going back to justdescribing what patronage is in
the ancient world, publicbenefactors I'm going back to
just describing what patronageis in the ancient world, public
benefactors.
And women did this alongsidemen.
Men did it much more simplybecause they had more financial
means and more public facing,but women were often patrons.
Women could be patrons becauseit was considered private space.
(17:35):
So remember, in the ancientworld their idea of what is
public and private is differentfrom ours.
In the Greco-Roman world theythought women should be modest
and stay in the private space.
But whereas we consider privateto be social influence,
friendships and at home,physically, at home in our house
, the ancient world's definitionof private was a lot broader
(17:57):
and our idea we consider publicto be politics, judicial
commerce and production.
We consider all of that to bepublic.
Religion is kind of mixed, butin the ancient world, by and
large, the only things that werereally considered public were
politics and the judiciary.
Things that were consideredprivate, that women could still
(18:19):
be pure, chaste, modest womenand they could engage in this
fully, were things like commerce, production, social influence,
home and religion.
The home, even in theGreco-Roman world, is still the
economic center and the physicalplace where most commerce,
production, social influence, etcetera were practiced and the
home supported, where mostcommerce, production, social
influence etc.
Were practiced and the homesupported the public sphere,
(18:40):
which was politics and thejudiciary.
So for a woman to be a patronin creating public works,
building those socialrelationships of reciprocity,
either between friendships or asa higher status person with
lower status people owning herown business.
We have records of Roman womenwho owned brick making factories
and restaurants.
Here's an entire list.
(19:02):
There's an entire list in yourpicture pack of all of the Roman
women's professions.
I'll just read some off.
And this is Roman.
It may have been different inGalilee and Judea, but we have
the most data on what Romanwomen did.
So Roman women werestenographers, nannies, wet
nurses, household managers.
They were inspectors forproduce.
They provided storage,household organization that
(19:25):
cared for the sick, supervisedslaves, made sure houses and
barns were clean, instructedthose under them and how to do
the tasks they did woolworking,teaching, buying, selling,
farming, brickmaking and owningbrickmaking factories, landlords
, restaurants, clothingproduction, lending, farming,
brickmaking and owningbrickmaking factories, landlords
, restaurants, clothingproduction, lending, borrowing,
patronage, clerks, personalservant.
They could also be personalservants like hairdressers,
wardrobe keepers, an errand girl.
(19:48):
They were entertainers, singers, actors, musicians, gladiators,
athletes.
They knew medicine.
They were doctors and midwives.
So Roman women had a variety ofprofessions available to them.
They were not just the idea ofstaying at home, being a
stay-at-home mom, they weresocially bound for lack of a
(20:11):
better term to stay in theprivate realm.
But again, as we said, theprivate realm included
production and religiousbenefaction, and so when we have
Joanna and Susanna supportingJesus' ministry, they are doing
something that is honorable andaccepted for women to do.
Now the trouble comes in thatthey were also disciples, which
(20:34):
would have been seen scandalous.
And Joanna is doing this whenHerod is not a fan of Jesus.
So you have this politicaltension in her family and we do
not know if she was a widow orif she was divorced or became
divorced after this.
We do not know the impact thishad on Joanna's marriage, but it
could have been intense.
(20:59):
But women often could use theirfinancial means to get honor for
themselves and their familiesthrough patronage.
Now I don't think trying togain social status and honor was
the heart of Joanna andSusanna's patronage of Jesus.
Nor were they patrons ortypically higher status, and
(21:19):
above those they were helpingtheir clients.
These women are not patrons inthat way with Jesus they're more
friends.
Jesus says His disciples areHis friends.
He's giving them grace, he'sgiving them teaching, he's
healing and they are supportingHim in kind.
So I call them His patronsbecause they had significant
financial contribution, but itwas more the reciprocal
(21:40):
friendship than their abovesupporting him like a typical
patron would, because when apatron supports a lower class
client, the patron expects thatclient to do what they want and
these women did not have thatkind of pull over Jesus.
Jesus had that pull over Jesus.
Jesus had that pull over them.
But now we have to askourselves how did the women get
(22:03):
this money to spend onsupporting Jesus?
One commentator, liefeld, saysit's noteworthy that these women
were industrious and their timetruly liberated and helped in
the support not only of Jesusbut also of the Twelve.
I slightly disagree with him.
He makes it sound like they'redoing something unusual by
(22:25):
calling them liberated.
They're not doing anythingunusual.
That's part of why I wentthrough everything I've gone
through.
They're not doing anythingunusual.
They are doing something thatis culturally accepted at the
time, as in patronage of areligious organization.
Now, who they were supportingmight have been controversial,
but what they were doing was notif that distinction makes sense
(22:46):
, what they were doing sociallyacceptable, made a lot of sense.
Who they were supporting, thatcould have been a problem, but
that they were supporting areligious teacher was something
women often did if they hadfinancial support, which was
rare.
Other people debate whetherJoanna was using Husa's material
(23:11):
wealth to support Jesus orwhether it was her own.
Again, we do not.
And they say, and one person,witherington.
He says that women could notinherit money or have their own.
He does not provide a footnotefor that and you may see that
other places.
He is categorically wrong.
According to other sources,I've seen Both Forbes and Hyland
talk about how women couldinherit money in the Roman world
(23:34):
, and even Jewish women couldinherit money.
So we don't know whetherJoanna's using her husband's
financial means or her own.
Women had various ways ofgetting money, and you could see
Forbes and Highland in thebibliography.
They go into this in depth.
But women could receiveinheritances from their father
or family.
Roman women again, and it wouldbe different for Jewish women.
(23:56):
But Roman women often receivedinheritances almost equally to
their brothers.
Jewish women less so, but theystill could receive an
inheritance.
If they didn't have brothers,women would also receive an
inheritance from their husbandif they don't have brothers.
Women would also receive aninheritance from their husband
if they don't have children, orsometimes he would even give an
inheritance to her first andthen it would be passed on to
(24:17):
the children.
So women could get moneythrough inheritance.
If they were divorced orwidowed, they would get money
from their dowry that was givento them when they were married.
A dowry is a financialinvestment in a new marriage,
but that money belongs to thewoman and if she is divorced or
(24:38):
widowed she gets that money back.
It's kind of like her securityblanket, it's her financial
savings account.
So a woman could getinheritance.
If she's divorced or widowedshe gets her dowry.
Women also could work.
We went through the list ofprofessions.
There was lots of differentways she could be earning money
(25:02):
on her own outside of herhusband and this was seen as
honorable, that women doing this.
It was not like today incomplementarian circles it's all
like the man needs to provideand the woman needs to be a stay
at home mom, because weconsider the home private.
There's still this desire tokeep women in the private sphere
, which is a completelydifferent conversation.
So we're not going to go therenow.
But both hard complementariansnow and the ancient world wanted
(25:26):
women to stay in the privatesphere.
But what is very differentbetween the ancient world and
now is what the private sphereencompassed.
Today we consider commerce andproduction to be part of the
public sphere.
In the ancient world that wasstill considered the private
sphere.
So women they didn't workoutside of their husband's
(25:49):
businesses as often.
Women were always workinghelping their husbands.
Peter's wife was likely helpinghim mend fishing nets and dry
fish and do all of thefishing-related things for the
fishing business.
She's not just kneading breadand sweeping their house at
Capernaum, she is helping withthe family business.
(26:10):
She is a crucial part of thefamily business.
She might not be going out onthe boat with all men, which
would not be socially acceptable, but as soon as they drag that
catch to shore, she's rightthere mending nets, helping with
this, that and the other thing.
It's what women did.
They helped with the familybusiness.
They helped in production andcommerce, and so women typically
(26:31):
did that, especially whenyou're poor, hand to mouth
peasant families.
But wealthier women could own,like as I said, brick making
businesses, or Magdala is knownfor its dried fish.
They could have owned bakeriesor dried fish businesses.
So women had lots of ways, ifthey had financial means, of
(26:51):
investing and growing theirmoney independently from their
husbands.
And again, this is kind of thatpatricentric heterarchy idea
versus patriarchy.
Patriarchy is the man controlseverything and women are just
chattel to be passed around.
That's how it's typicallytalked about.
But when you look at thoseauthors who've actually studied
the cultures Susan Hyland isfantastic for that when you're
(27:15):
looking at the New Testament,the book Raised from Obscurity
by Forbes and Harroware is alsovery good.
You see that women had access.
Some women had access to money,not all women.
Women, of course, did not havethe same access to money as men,
but they did have some accessto money.
(27:37):
So hopefully that answers someof those questions regarding
Joanna, susanna.
Where did they get their money?
Why did they follow Jesus?
Hopefully that fleshes out themmore.
I do want to talk about onemore thing very briefly.
Fleshes out them more.
I do want to talk about onemore thing very briefly.
There is some conjecture invarious circles that Joanna is
the same woman as Junia inRomans 16.
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And when we talk about Junia,I'll go through all the reasons
on why and why not people thinkthey might be related.
It's all conjecture.
We do not know.
We cannot prove it.
Both women have differenthusbands named.
Joanna is the husband of Huza,and I forget Junia's husband's
name.
But it could be that Huzadivorced Joanna or died and then
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she got a new name, slightlydifferent spelling, and married
a different man.
That's entirely possible.
Married a different man.
That's entirely possible.
Junia is, I guess, a Jewishwoman.
She may be like a Roman Jewishwoman, but we just don't know.
It doesn't tell us directly ifthey're the same women.
I find it interesting that alot of scholars try to take
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people of different names andmake them all the same person,
which on one hand, makes sense,but on the other, because you're
trying to have clarity and makesure you know who people are.
But on the other side, I'm likewhy would we prefer to take two
strong disciples of Jesus whoare doing amazing things for the
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kingdom, and rather than havingJunia and Joanna as separate
strong disciple women, why wouldwe put them together and make
it to be one woman?
I would rather there be a Junia, who's an amazing, strong woman
, and a Joanna, who's amazing,strong women, so we have more
women.
That's my personal preference,which is purely personal
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preference.
But whether they're the sameperson is all conjecture.
We just don't know.
We will find out in heaven whenit's like oh, you are, oh, look
, there's two of you, and thatwill be exciting and that's when
we'll find out.
But as we look at these women,we see that they were faithful
women supporting Jesus withtheir finances.
Women are the only namedfinancial supporters, the only
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named patrons of Jesus in theentire Bible.
That is significant.
These women had a significantrole.
They were serving, they weredeaconing Jesus.
It's a much larger study thanwhat we have time for today
whether these women followingand being disciples included
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teaching and what that lookedlike, and whether they had a
similar role to the apostles ornot.
That's going beyond today'stopic.
I'm just trying to give youbackground information on these
women and who they arespecifically.
But they had significant rolesin Jesus' ministry.
They weren't just washing,cleaning, cooking.
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They were financial supporters.
It would have been shameful forthe rest of the huge disciple
group to look at the patronwomen who are financially
supporting the entire endeavorand be like, oh yeah, could you
do my socks, we need somewashing over here.
No, that's not how they wouldbe treated.
That's not how they would treatthese women in that culture as
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patrons of the entire religiousorganization.
There was some honor there,even though these women were
laying down their honorcontinually.
They were showing how youinvest your financial resources
humbly.
They weren't looking for honor,but there still would have been
an honor given and status,social status in that culture
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and I'm speaking culturally, notbiblically here social status
in that culture was more of adeterminer of honor than gender.
A peasant man would not look ata retainer class woman and be
like, hey, I need you to cook,you know?
Hey, woman, go make me asandwich.
That would never happen.
She's higher social status.
It does not matter that she's awoman.
She is higher status than him,and so that's an interesting
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interplay here.
When we consider these women inthe disciple group, along with
the 12, along with all of theother people, there's a lot of
social interplay going on.
It's not simply man versuswoman.
Woman serves in this way, manserves in this way.
There's a lot more going on.
These women were friends ofJesus.
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They walked with Jesus.
They saw him do miracles.
He healed them.
They believed his message.
They were there the entire time.
They heard his messages inGalilee they were even there.
It doesn't say Susanna wasthere, but she could have been
there.
But Joanna was there, probablyat the crucifixion, definitely
(32:22):
at the resurrection.
They followed Jesus faithfully,doing everything they could to
make sure he was able to do whatGod wanted him to do, and they
supported him out of their ownmeans, with much risk to
themselves, their families andtheir marriages.
These are amazing women of Godand I'm so thankful that Luke
(32:49):
captured just a tiny fragment oftheir story in his gospel for
us.
If you don't know all of thisabout the culture, you miss some
of what's going on in the text,because there's a lot of
interplay there.
But I'm so happy that we couldtalk about it and we can bring
these women to life even more.
We are talking about Jesus' disciples, Joanna
and Susanna.
We find them in Luke 8, verses2 and 3.
Let me read verses 1-3 for usnow.
After this, jesus traveledabout from one town and village
to another proclaiming the goodnews of the kingdom of God.
The twelve were with him andalso some women who had been
(00:23):
cured of evil spirits anddiseases.
Mary called Magdalene, fromwhom seven demons had come out.
Joanna, the wife of Huza, themanager of Herod's household,
susanna and many others.
These women were helping tosupport them out of their own
means.
We also see Joanna appearbriefly in Luke 24.10,.
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Also see Joanna appear brieflyin Luke 24 10 when Jesus is
resurrected and is speaking tothe women who came to the tomb
to anoint him, and he found themthere.
We only see Joanna in those twospots.
She's mentioned in Luke 8,verse 3, and Luke 24 10.
Susanna is only mentioned inLuke 8, verse 3, but we have a
couple key pieces of informationabout each of them and I want
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to talk about them specifically.
First, let's talk about Joanna.
We know more about her thanSusanna, though we still don't
know a great deal about her asan individual.
Joanna was a woman who was inHerod Antipas's court.
We are told that her husband,husa, was the steward.
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This is likely a high-rankingofficial and we'll get there in
a moment.
So we know a little bit aboutJoanna.
We know for whom her husbandworks.
Her husband is the householdmanager of Herod Antipas.
A household manager could belike the steward of the estate,
someone who just runs thehousehold, or it could be an
official governmental position.
(01:50):
Either way, this is a highstatus position Herod Antipas
ruled.
If you're watching on YouTubethis rather than just listening,
if you're listening, you'll beable to find this map in your
show notes (available on ourPatreon).
If you're watching, you can seeit on the screen.
But Herod Antipas ruled overGalilee, which on the map is the
purple area.
He ruled over Galilee.
The nation of Israel, when theRomans took it over, was
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originally ruled, you mayremember, by Herod the Great.
This is the Herod that wasruling over Judea and Galilee
when Jesus was born, which iswhy Joseph and Mary had to flee
to Egypt.
And then Herod the Great diedand his kingdom for lack of a
better term because it wasn'treally a kingdom because he's
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ruling under the Romans.
The Romans have allowed Herodthe Great to rule, so it's kind
of a kingdom, but he's ruling byproxy because the Romans are
allowing him to rule as a Romancitizen.
So Herod the Great was ruling.
Mary and Joseph had to take babyJesus to Egypt to hide from
Herod the Great, and so whenHerod the Great dies, the
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kingdom is split into four parts.
So when you see the map, you'llsee that there's a couple of
yellow parts, there's an orangepart, purple and a green part,
and so it was split up amongHerod's kids.
It's split up against Archelaus, and that's why Mary and Joseph
, when they came back from Egypt, they heard that Archelaus was
(03:16):
ruling over Judah.
So they went back to Galilee.
Herod Antipas was ruling overGalilee and Perea.
Herod Antipas was ruling overGalilee and Perea the two purple
areas on the map, and thenSalome was ruling the green
sections, and then Syria is thefar north and it had a couple
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different sections that werehighly Gentile the Decapolis and
Syria.
And then Philip was ruling theorange section, which was east
of the Sea of Galilee.
Now Herodias was Philip's wife,who Herod Antipas.
She divorced Philip and marriedHerod Antipas, who John the
Baptist was speaking about.
(03:57):
So just try to give you somecontext.
I'm going to go through itagain.
You have Archelaus, who Josephand Mary were scared to be in
his area.
So they went to Galilee whereHerod Antipas was ruling.
And Herod Antipas was rulingfrom around the time of Jesus'
birth Well, not his birth, butshortly thereafter Jesus' birth,
(04:18):
when they could come back fromEgypt through Jesus' ministry.
So when you see Herod in theGospels it's talking about Herod
Antipas.
In Galilee you also have Philip,who's the next tetrarchy, over
the next little section, over onthe east side of the Sea of
Galilee.
Herod Antipas is on the westside of the Sea of Galilee,
(04:39):
philip is on the east side.
Philip was married to a womannamed Herodias.
Herodias divorced him andmarried Herod Antipas.
John the Baptist said it's notright for Herod Antipas to have
Philip, your brother's wife, andHerodias got really mad about
that and wanted John the Baptistbeheaded.
So Herod Antipas is overGalilee.
(05:02):
Some point I'm not sure on thispart of the history and it's
not as important for today'spodcast Archelaus gets killed,
ousted, not sure what happens,and Pontius Pilate takes over
Archelaus' territory.
So when Jesus is being pushedback and forth between Herod's
court and Pontius Pilate's courtright before he's crucified,
(05:24):
they are two rulers.
Herod had a palace or somewherein Jerusalem where he could come
when he was in town becausethat's still kind of the capital
of the entire region, butthat's not where he was normally
.
He normally lived in Tiberias,which is on the Sea of Galilee.
So there's another map in yourpackets that shows kind of a
(05:44):
close-up of Galilee.
You have Nazareth, where Jesuslived as a small child, where
Mary was from.
You have Tiberias, which is themain capital city of Galilee,
and that is where Herod Antipaslived and had his palace and
that's where Joanna would havebeen from.
And when you look at the mapyou can see Magdala, where Mary
(06:09):
Magdalene was likely from, andCapernaum, where Peter and James
and John and all of them werefrom.
They're all cities just dottedaround the Sea of Galilee.
So Joanna likely was living inTiberias.
We don't know where she's fromoriginally, but we know that
she's living in Tiberias becauseher husband, cusa, is the
manager of Herod Antipas' courtand so she is a woman of a lot
of prominence.
(06:30):
I have an image in your shownotes (available on Patreon) of
the social stratification in thefirst century.
So you have the very top class,which is like 1% to 3% of the
people which are the rulers.
So you have royalty, nobility,politically connected elites.
Even the Sadducees are kind ofrulers.
Herod Antipas, obviously, is aruler.
Then you have retainers.
This makes two to five percentof the population.
(06:53):
It's the second level down fromthe rulers and this is bailiffs
, stewards, soldiers, taxcollectors, pharisees, etc.
And so Chuza would have been avery high, very high, higher
than, like the Pharisees and thesoldiers, and all of them
retainer.
He is a retainer class andJoanna, being his wife, would
have that high status as well.
(07:14):
So you have rulers and thenretainers.
He may have even had someruling, depending on whether he
was just a steward or whether heactually had political office
as well.
So Joanna and her husband areretainer, ruler class, extremely
high class.
You also have merchants andpriests, who are a fairly high
class and you have working classpeople.
Those are made up of artisansand then peasants, which are
(07:37):
farmers and fishermen.
Jesus would have beenconsidered probably part of the
artisan class Builders, potters,weavers, stonemasons, those
sorts of people are artisans andthey made an interesting bridge
between some of the upperclasses and then the lower
classes, like laborers and evenmost of the peasants.
Most of Jesus' disciples wouldhave been considered peasants
(07:59):
farmers, fishermen.
Peter James, john theirfishermen.
He did pull in some retainersas male apostle disciples.
We have Matthew the taxcollector, levi, who was likely
the same person as Matthew.
He had some Pharisees asdisciples.
So Jesus is pulling people fromall classes and we see that
very much with Joanna.
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She is a high-class woman whocomes from the retainer class.
We don't know exactly how sheheard about Jesus.
Now, jesus was traveling allaround Galilee.
He was from Nazareth.
He was constantly in Capernaum.
That kind of became his homebase and he's traveling around
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the Sea of Galilee and where hegoes, large crowds go.
They don't have TV ortelevision.
You want to find out about thiscelebrated teacher.
So people would come out of anyof these towns, even the rich
people.
They're curious just likeeverybody else and so they're
coming.
She likely did that.
It was likely she was sick orill or someone in her family was
sick or ill and Jesus healedthem.
So she has this feeling ofreciprocity towards Jesus.
(09:07):
She has belief in his powers.
So she's been cured of an evilspirit or disease, or someone in
her family was Huza.
Her husband also may have beenNabataean or Syrian.
When you look at the big mapwith all the different colors on
it, the Nabataean kingdom iskind of in gray to the east of
(09:27):
the Dead Sea and then Syria's upto the north.
The name Huzah is found in bothNabataean and Syrian literature
, so he may not have been Jewishor he could have been a Jewish
man with that kind of heritage,but he's likely Nabataean or
Syrian who then ended up inHerod Antipas' court.
We don't know if they had Romanstatus, if they were Roman
(09:50):
citizens.
We don't have that kind ofinformation.
But we do have a fair.
Just because Joanna was marriedto Huza, we have a fair idea of
her status and that she becomesa financial supporter of Jesus
who works alongside him, andlikely from at least at the time
(10:12):
she met Jesus Tiberius on theSea of Galilee.
So that's a brief overview ofJoanna.
Why she followed him?
Likely because he healed herand she believed in his message,
and so next let's talk brieflyabout Susanna.
Susanna we know a lot less about.
We don't know anything abouther family or social class.
(10:33):
We do know she also, or someonein her family, was cured of an
evil spirit and or disease.
She was also a financialsupporter of Jesus and she lived
in Galilee.
We do know that much, but we donot know where in Galilee.
On the map pack there's a mapby Susanna that shows Galilee,
and Tiberias is in Galilee.
(10:54):
Nazareth, sepphoris, is anotherlarge city.
We don't know where in Galileeshe came from, but Jesus was
traveling all over and most ofhis female disciples, mary and
Martha excluded because they'refrom Bethany, right outside
Jerusalem, and most of hisfemale disciples, mary and
Martha, excluded because they'refrom Bethany, right outside
Jerusalem, most of Jesus' femaledisciples are from the Galilee
region.
Okay, so let's talk about whatJoanna and Susanna did
(11:18):
specifically to support Jesus.
We don't know a whole lot abouttheir work and what they did,
how they supported specifically.
We don't know exactly wheretheir money came from, but we do
have some educated guesses fromwhat we know of the people and
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the cultures at the time period.
So first let's consider it saidin verse 3,.
It said these women werehelping to support them, jesus
and the apostles, out of theirown means.
The text does not call thempatrons specifically and we'll
talk about that in a few minutes, but the word help is the same
deaconess word used to talkabout deacons later on, or
(12:04):
Phoebe, the deaconess whobrought Paul's letter in Romans
16.
So these women are acting asdeacons, they are acting as
servants, they are acting ashelpers and they are supporting
financially, which indicatessome level of patronage, which
we'll talk about in a minute.
Stein comments in hiscommentary these women were
(12:25):
apparently well-to-do.
The verb were helping is aGreek term, dekanon, from which
we get the word deacon.
The way the women areintroduced in these verses may
indicate they were known to thegospel's readers.
So again, this is the gospel ofLuke.
Another commentator mentionedthat Luke seems to know an awful
lot about Herod Antipas'household and how it ran, and he
(12:48):
may have gotten thatinformation from Joanna, who was
the steward's wife.
One thing that is fairly commonI'm seeing in all of my research
is that for Jesus to havefemale disciples, learners,
followers, with him would havebeen scandalous.
In that day no rabbis, noteachers had female disciples
(13:10):
and nobody had co-ed classes.
This was unheard of.
It was fairly common for womenif they had financial means,
which having financial means wasextremely uncommon.
Having that kind of money notnormal.
But for those who did, it wasnot uncommon for women to serve
as patrons or supporters ofreligious teachers or
(13:31):
associations.
This was a way women could usetheir money, use their financial
means.
It was not unheard of for thisto happen.
Forbes says in his book that weshould not take the expression
they were helping to mean thatthe women merely performed
traditional roles of cooking,washing, etc.
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For they are on the road withJesus, not in a fixed location,
with Jesus, not in a fixedlocation.
Moreover, it was the maledisciples who were later asked
by Jesus to provide food, notthe women, which is interesting
because typically you expectfood to be more of the female
domain, but the women who aretraveling with Jesus are not
designated to go get the food.
So again, this gives us morethat these women.
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They're wealthy women who havesome sort of special class, and
they are supporting Jesus aspatrons.
So how did these women helpfund the ministry?
And what is a patron?
A patronage is a relationshipmarked by reciprocity, kind of a
I'll scratch your back, youscratch mine.
It's the giving and thereceiving of favors, you scratch
(14:36):
mine.
It's the giving and thereceiving of favors For people
of equal status.
This reciprocity was typicallyconsidered friendship or
partnership.
There wasn't a above-belowstatus.
It's something neighbors woulddo with one another, whether
they are poor or rich.
You think about how, when Jesusis crucified and Herod and
Pilate are sending him back andforth.
The text says they were enemiesbut now they became friends.
(15:00):
The sending Jesus back andforth and how they both handled
that, honoring each other inthat, created a relationship of
reciprocity between HerodAntipas and Pontius Pilate.
That enabled a friendshipbetween those two men.
Now, those people in arelationship who do more favors
whether you're in a poor villageand you have household A, they
(15:22):
just end up doing more favorsthan household B.
All the time they end up beingthe ones considered the patrons
they provide informal.
This provides an informalleadership structure in the
ancient world.
This provides an informalleadership structure in the
ancient world.
(15:44):
Now there are some people whosay that the women, joanna and
Susanna these women shouldn'tnecessarily be considered
patrons because of how Jesus wasreally tearing apart.
I think it was Forbes who saidthat, quoting someone else.
Jesus is really tearing apart alot of the social status and
it's very equalizing.
You also have to consider, whenit comes to reciprocity, that
Jesus had healed them.
So their financial support iskind of the reciprocity for
(16:06):
Jesus as their patron.
So you kind of have this mutualreciprocity going back and
forth between Jesus and thesewomen.
Yes, they are financialsupporters, which some would
consider patronage, that theywould have some pull and sway
because patrons often wereconsidered they were the ones
supposed to influence others forthe sake of their clients.
(16:26):
But we don't want to think ofJesus as a client of these women
because that's like a lowerstatus and these women are
financially supporting himreciprocally because of the
healing he did and because oftheir belief in him.
So where culturally andstructurally there is this
patronage structure thateveryone would understand that
these women are high-statuswomen.
(16:47):
They are not patrons in thesense that they have leadership
over Jesus or even the otherdisciples, because this is a
reciprocal relationship ofgiving and receiving, started by
Jesus' lavish grace on them,healing and removing demons,
typically patrons.
(17:10):
We often think of patrons mostwhen we consider public
benefactors.
I'm going back to justdescribing what patronage is in
the ancient world, publicbenefactors I'm going back to
just describing what patronageis in the ancient world, public
benefactors.
And women did this alongsidemen.
Men did it much more simplybecause they had more financial
means and more public facing,but women were often patrons.
Women could be patrons becauseit was considered private space.
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So remember, in the ancientworld their idea of what is
public and private is differentfrom ours.
In the Greco-Roman world theythought women should be modest
and stay in the private space.
But whereas we consider privateto be social influence,
friendships and at home,physically, at home in our house
, the ancient world's definitionof private was a lot broader
(17:57):
and our idea we consider publicto be politics, judicial
commerce and production.
We consider all of that to bepublic.
Religion is kind of mixed, butin the ancient world, by and
large, the only things that werereally considered public were
politics and the judiciary.
Things that were consideredprivate, that women could still
(18:19):
be pure, chaste, modest womenand they could engage in this
fully, were things like commerce, production, social influence,
home and religion.
The home, even in theGreco-Roman world, is still the
economic center and the physicalplace where most commerce,
production, social influence, etcetera were practiced and the
home supported, where mostcommerce, production, social
influence etc.
Were practiced and the homesupported the public sphere,
(18:40):
which was politics and thejudiciary.
So for a woman to be a patronin creating public works,
building those socialrelationships of reciprocity,
either between friendships or asa higher status person with
lower status people owning herown business.
We have records of Roman womenwho owned brick making factories
and restaurants.
Here's an entire list.
(19:02):
There's an entire list in yourpicture pack of all of the Roman
women's professions.
I'll just read some off.
And this is Roman.
It may have been different inGalilee and Judea, but we have
the most data on what Romanwomen did.
So Roman women werestenographers, nannies, wet
nurses, household managers.
They were inspectors forproduce.
They provided storage,household organization that
(19:25):
cared for the sick, supervisedslaves, made sure houses and
barns were clean, instructedthose under them and how to do
the tasks they did woolworking,teaching, buying, selling,
farming, brickmaking and owningbrickmaking factories, landlords
, restaurants, clothingproduction, lending, farming,
brickmaking and owningbrickmaking factories, landlords
, restaurants, clothingproduction, lending, borrowing,
patronage, clerks, personalservant.
They could also be personalservants like hairdressers,
wardrobe keepers, an errand girl.
(19:48):
They were entertainers, singers, actors, musicians, gladiators,
athletes.
They knew medicine.
They were doctors and midwives.
So Roman women had a variety ofprofessions available to them.
They were not just the idea ofstaying at home, being a
stay-at-home mom, they weresocially bound for lack of a
(20:11):
better term to stay in theprivate realm.
But again, as we said, theprivate realm included
production and religiousbenefaction, and so when we have
Joanna and Susanna supportingJesus' ministry, they are doing
something that is honorable andaccepted for women to do.
Now the trouble comes in thatthey were also disciples, which
(20:34):
would have been seen scandalous.
And Joanna is doing this whenHerod is not a fan of Jesus.
So you have this politicaltension in her family and we do
not know if she was a widow orif she was divorced or became
divorced after this.
We do not know the impact thishad on Joanna's marriage, but it
could have been intense.
(20:59):
But women often could use theirfinancial means to get honor for
themselves and their familiesthrough patronage.
Now I don't think trying togain social status and honor was
the heart of Joanna andSusanna's patronage of Jesus.
Nor were they patrons ortypically higher status, and
(21:19):
above those they were helpingtheir clients.
These women are not patrons inthat way with Jesus they're more
friends.
Jesus says His disciples areHis friends.
He's giving them grace, he'sgiving them teaching, he's
healing and they are supportingHim in kind.
So I call them His patronsbecause they had significant
financial contribution, but itwas more the reciprocal
(21:40):
friendship than their abovesupporting him like a typical
patron would, because when apatron supports a lower class
client, the patron expects thatclient to do what they want and
these women did not have thatkind of pull over Jesus.
Jesus had that pull over Jesus.
Jesus had that pull over them.
But now we have to askourselves how did the women get
(22:03):
this money to spend onsupporting Jesus?
One commentator, liefeld, saysit's noteworthy that these women
were industrious and their timetruly liberated and helped in
the support not only of Jesusbut also of the Twelve.
I slightly disagree with him.
He makes it sound like they'redoing something unusual by
(22:25):
calling them liberated.
They're not doing anythingunusual.
That's part of why I wentthrough everything I've gone
through.
They're not doing anythingunusual.
They are doing something thatis culturally accepted at the
time, as in patronage of areligious organization.
Now, who they were supportingmight have been controversial,
but what they were doing was notif that distinction makes sense
(22:46):
, what they were doing sociallyacceptable, made a lot of sense.
Who they were supporting, thatcould have been a problem, but
that they were supporting areligious teacher was something
women often did if they hadfinancial support, which was
rare.
Other people debate whetherJoanna was using Husa's material
(23:11):
wealth to support Jesus orwhether it was her own.
Again, we do not.
And they say, and one person,witherington.
He says that women could notinherit money or have their own.
He does not provide a footnotefor that and you may see that
other places.
He is categorically wrong.
According to other sources,I've seen Both Forbes and Hyland
talk about how women couldinherit money in the Roman world
(23:34):
, and even Jewish women couldinherit money.
So we don't know whetherJoanna's using her husband's
financial means or her own.
Women had various ways ofgetting money, and you could see
Forbes and Highland in thebibliography.
They go into this in depth.
But women could receiveinheritances from their father
or family.
Roman women again, and it wouldbe different for Jewish women.
(23:56):
But Roman women often receivedinheritances almost equally to
their brothers.
Jewish women less so, but theystill could receive an
inheritance.
If they didn't have brothers,women would also receive an
inheritance from their husbandif they don't have brothers.
Women would also receive aninheritance from their husband
if they don't have children, orsometimes he would even give an
inheritance to her first andthen it would be passed on to
(24:17):
the children.
So women could get moneythrough inheritance.
If they were divorced orwidowed, they would get money
from their dowry that was givento them when they were married.
A dowry is a financialinvestment in a new marriage,
but that money belongs to thewoman and if she is divorced or
(24:38):
widowed she gets that money back.
It's kind of like her securityblanket, it's her financial
savings account.
So a woman could getinheritance.
If she's divorced or widowedshe gets her dowry.
Women also could work.
We went through the list ofprofessions.
There was lots of differentways she could be earning money
(25:02):
on her own outside of herhusband and this was seen as
honorable, that women doing this.
It was not like today incomplementarian circles it's all
like the man needs to provideand the woman needs to be a stay
at home mom, because weconsider the home private.
There's still this desire tokeep women in the private sphere
, which is a completelydifferent conversation.
So we're not going to go therenow.
But both hard complementariansnow and the ancient world wanted
(25:26):
women to stay in the privatesphere.
But what is very differentbetween the ancient world and
now is what the private sphereencompassed.
Today we consider commerce andproduction to be part of the
public sphere.
In the ancient world that wasstill considered the private
sphere.
So women they didn't workoutside of their husband's
(25:49):
businesses as often.
Women were always workinghelping their husbands.
Peter's wife was likely helpinghim mend fishing nets and dry
fish and do all of thefishing-related things for the
fishing business.
She's not just kneading breadand sweeping their house at
Capernaum, she is helping withthe family business.
(26:10):
She is a crucial part of thefamily business.
She might not be going out onthe boat with all men, which
would not be socially acceptable, but as soon as they drag that
catch to shore, she's rightthere mending nets, helping with
this, that and the other thing.
It's what women did.
They helped with the familybusiness.
They helped in production andcommerce, and so women typically
(26:31):
did that, especially whenyou're poor, hand to mouth
peasant families.
But wealthier women could own,like as I said, brick making
businesses, or Magdala is knownfor its dried fish.
They could have owned bakeriesor dried fish businesses.
So women had lots of ways, ifthey had financial means, of
(26:51):
investing and growing theirmoney independently from their
husbands.
And again, this is kind of thatpatricentric heterarchy idea
versus patriarchy.
Patriarchy is the man controlseverything and women are just
chattel to be passed around.
That's how it's typicallytalked about.
But when you look at thoseauthors who've actually studied
the cultures Susan Hyland isfantastic for that when you're
(27:15):
looking at the New Testament,the book Raised from Obscurity
by Forbes and Harroware is alsovery good.
You see that women had access.
Some women had access to money,not all women.
Women, of course, did not havethe same access to money as men,
but they did have some accessto money.
(27:37):
So hopefully that answers someof those questions regarding
Joanna, susanna.
Where did they get their money?
Why did they follow Jesus?
Hopefully that fleshes out themmore.
I do want to talk about onemore thing very briefly.
Fleshes out them more.
I do want to talk about onemore thing very briefly.
There is some conjecture invarious circles that Joanna is
the same woman as Junia inRomans 16.
(27:58):
And when we talk about Junia,I'll go through all the reasons
on why and why not people thinkthey might be related.
It's all conjecture.
We do not know.
We cannot prove it.
Both women have differenthusbands named.
Joanna is the husband of Huza,and I forget Junia's husband's
name.
But it could be that Huzadivorced Joanna or died and then
(28:22):
she got a new name, slightlydifferent spelling, and married
a different man.
That's entirely possible.
Married a different man.
That's entirely possible.
Junia is, I guess, a Jewishwoman.
She may be like a Roman Jewishwoman, but we just don't know.
It doesn't tell us directly ifthey're the same women.
I find it interesting that alot of scholars try to take
(28:46):
people of different names andmake them all the same person,
which on one hand, makes sense,but on the other, because you're
trying to have clarity and makesure you know who people are.
But on the other side, I'm likewhy would we prefer to take two
strong disciples of Jesus whoare doing amazing things for the
(29:07):
kingdom, and rather than havingJunia and Joanna as separate
strong disciple women, why wouldwe put them together and make
it to be one woman?
I would rather there be a Junia, who's an amazing, strong woman
, and a Joanna, who's amazing,strong women, so we have more
women.
That's my personal preference,which is purely personal
(29:27):
preference.
But whether they're the sameperson is all conjecture.
We just don't know.
We will find out in heaven whenit's like oh, you are, oh, look
, there's two of you, and thatwill be exciting and that's when
we'll find out.
But as we look at these women,we see that they were faithful
women supporting Jesus withtheir finances.
Women are the only namedfinancial supporters, the only
(29:49):
named patrons of Jesus in theentire Bible.
That is significant.
These women had a significantrole.
They were serving, they weredeaconing Jesus.
It's a much larger study thanwhat we have time for today
whether these women followingand being disciples included
(30:11):
teaching and what that lookedlike, and whether they had a
similar role to the apostles ornot.
That's going beyond today'stopic.
I'm just trying to give youbackground information on these
women and who they arespecifically.
But they had significant rolesin Jesus' ministry.
They weren't just washing,cleaning, cooking.
(30:31):
They were financial supporters.
It would have been shameful forthe rest of the huge disciple
group to look at the patronwomen who are financially
supporting the entire endeavorand be like, oh yeah, could you
do my socks, we need somewashing over here.
No, that's not how they wouldbe treated.
That's not how they would treatthese women in that culture as
(30:53):
patrons of the entire religiousorganization.
There was some honor there,even though these women were
laying down their honorcontinually.
They were showing how youinvest your financial resources
humbly.
They weren't looking for honor,but there still would have been
an honor given and status,social status in that culture
(31:18):
and I'm speaking culturally, notbiblically here social status
in that culture was more of adeterminer of honor than gender.
A peasant man would not look ata retainer class woman and be
like, hey, I need you to cook,you know?
Hey, woman, go make me asandwich.
That would never happen.
She's higher social status.
It does not matter that she's awoman.
She is higher status than him,and so that's an interesting
(31:41):
interplay here.
When we consider these women inthe disciple group, along with
the 12, along with all of theother people, there's a lot of
social interplay going on.
It's not simply man versuswoman.
Woman serves in this way, manserves in this way.
There's a lot more going on.
These women were friends ofJesus.
(32:02):
They walked with Jesus.
They saw him do miracles.
He healed them.
They believed his message.
They were there the entire time.
They heard his messages inGalilee they were even there.
It doesn't say Susanna wasthere, but she could have been
there.
But Joanna was there, probablyat the crucifixion, definitely
(32:22):
at the resurrection.
They followed Jesus faithfully,doing everything they could to
make sure he was able to do whatGod wanted him to do, and they
supported him out of their ownmeans, with much risk to
themselves, their families andtheir marriages.
These are amazing women of Godand I'm so thankful that Luke
(32:49):
captured just a tiny fragment oftheir story in his gospel for
us.
If you don't know all of thisabout the culture, you miss some
of what's going on in the text,because there's a lot of
interplay there.
But I'm so happy that we couldtalk about it and we can bring
these women to life even more.
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